Chewing the Fat with Jeff Fisher - S11 E5 | Talking Walking Dead | The Final Season…

Episode Date: September 20, 2021

Season Eleven Episode Five TITLED: Out Of The Ashes WELCOME TO IT… With myself Jeff Fisher, Jason Buttrill & Maximus Fisher EPISODE DESCRIPTION ON IMDB Aaron, Carol, Lydia, and Jerry go to the Hilltop ruins for blacksmith tools and nearby game; Eugene's group goes through orientation at the Commonwealth; Maggie and Negan trudge through the woods; Judith and the kids clash with teenagers. Listen each week as we discuss the latest episode and what the future may hold…  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Season 11, episode 5, still in the final season. It's, I don't know, so it breaks my heart that we're in the final season. Title of the show, Out of the Ashes, and that makes this Talking Walking Dead. Welcome to it, myself, Jeff Fisher, Jason Butchrell, and Maximus Fisher. IMDB description of this episode, Aaron, Carol, Lydia, and Jerry go to the hilltop ruins for blacksmith tools and nearby game. Eugene Group goes through orientation at the Commonwealth. Maggie and Negan trudged through the woods. Judith and the kids clash with teenagers.

I will say I was very happy with the rotation of the stories. I know, as we said last week, there obviously wasn't going to be any Darrell this week, the way the IMDB description reads, and there wasn't. But I love the Alexandria, the Commonwealth, to Maggie and Negan, the Hilltop, back to Alexandria. I love that. That was really good. Yeah, same. I didn't, I don't have much to complain about, really. I agree with you 100% switching back and forth is what we need. But why not give us something from Daryl? I would have been just anything. Just anything. I would have been perfectly fine. There's been nothing to complain about this episode if they've done that. Well, I mean, besides the fact that it doesn't really seem like everything that the Alexandria people are doing or Daryl and all them are doing mean anything, really? Right.

Maybe it does. I'm trying to get him the benefit of the doubt. But, I mean, the reason I like this episode so much was that, okay, there are a lot of things. But the main reason is that it actually seems like we're getting somewhere now, right? With the Commonwealth, like, finally we're on the main storyline. I mean, it was a breath of fresh air. Yes. Yeah, I really like this episode jumping back and forth.

And I think the main reason we didn't get Daryl this episode is because we had a whole episode dedicated to him last week. So you don't like that. Yeah, and I don't like that because it just seems like wasted time. It really does. But I still really liked this episode jumping back and forth. We had the Commonwealth. And the stuff that Alexander seemed pretty good seeing how like they actually worked together with the wall. That actually really was school. It felt bad for that one guy who just, when the walkers came in, there was that one guy with just getting his guts eaten out.

Yeah, well. Oh, well. Just somebody else that died that didn't matter. I really, it was interesting to see how they all. work together without saying anything to close up the wall. And, you know, that was fascinating how, you know, even any little idiosyncrasies between the characters all go away when we're fighting to save our lives.

I thought that was great. You know, like the first person that noticed Jerry, I loved his little, call to arms, dudes, dudes, dudes, dudes. Oh, yeah, we had a lot of Jerry this episode. That was nice. That was nice. Yeah, no doubt. And, you know, by will say, and I realize that.

there was an issue, but I mean, apparently during the pandemic, you don't have to wash your hands after you go to the bathroom. Yeah. Right. I know. I think in this situation, his, he's not washing hands is a bit forgiven. Yeah, I think so, too. And I did, I will say, back to the Daryl thing, although now we're going to be able to get

a segment with Daryl and understand everything that's going on with them, right? So I don't know that that full episode was a wasted episode. You know, that was laying the groundwork for them. So when I say wasted, I mean, I just don't know how it fits in with the overall storyline, which the main storyline should be Commonwealth. So I just don't know how this fits with that. That's what I'm saying. I want to give them the benefit of the doubt, maybe it eventually will.

But if it's just to put them in, you know, some kind of crisis mode, where they're doing something that appears interesting while the main storyline is going on? I don't know. That's why I'm just going to be pissed if that's what's going on. I think that's exactly what it is, though. I mean, we're going to, I think we even talked about it a little bit last week. I mean, I think that we now know, and I don't know that he heard,

but, you know, the war is over when they talked to Eugene back at Commonwealth, jumping ahead a little bit when Eugene reached out to them over the walkie-talkie or the ham radio. And so, you know, they told him that the war was over. I don't know that he heard it. But so now we've still got a battle, right? Commonwealth comes to rescue Alexandria and there's still the battle with Daryl people in the middle of that. So, I mean, we're going to get that war. I don't know that that's worthy.

I don't think that's really more, more of a battle of attrition maybe. Yeah. Okay. I'm more, I'm more just like, remember like the Savior War. Like, everybody was involved going towards that storyline or that objective. Right. You'd have different groups doing different things within the war, but they were all involved. Like, I just, I just don't understand why they don't have everybody involved with the Commonwealth thing.

They don't have to all be there. They could just all be involved. involved somehow. Well, I think the main reason was Eugene left in the middle of the Whisper War to go get help. He still thinks, maybe he still does. We don't know about the right hand when he,

when Razida told him over the radio. He still, up until this point, we know he still thinks the Whisper War is still going on. Right. I mean, that's why he wants to get the heck out of Commonwealth, right? He doesn't want to do his little job and you know, become part of the

Commonwealth crowd. And there's, I mean, we We all know, obviously, that there's something fishy at Commonwealth. I mean, it's just too good. And Yumiko's brother, you know, he's the under, it feels like he's the underground Nazi of the Commonwealth. Because he's been there from the beginning, right? I mean, he's just, he's baking cakes as for the fun of it because he likes doing it. Yeah. I don't know.

It was just kind of, kind of strange. I feel like. And then when they arrested them for, if I could say during that conversation, when he was talking about just baking the cakes, it was ominous when he was like, everything should be fine if you follow the rules. Right.

Like, okay. Right. And he's been there from the very beginning, which makes me think that he's, you know, a big part of the rule center. Right? We're going to follow him that he bakes the cakes

because he likes baking cake, but it also keeps him, you know, on the streets. Right. And hearing the, you know, hearing the, the, the rumblings of what's happening on the, the streets of the Commonwealth. And there's definitely more to that conversation that I think they'll probably bring back because, and they even, they even teased it like in the teet, like the cold open before the show.

Umiko, is that her name? Yeah. Yeah. She, she said, I believe my brother is here who is a thoracic surgeon. They know who her brother is, I'm assuming. Right. and he's all like, don't tell anybody, don't tell me, but I don't mess this up for me. So he's been keeping this secret for a long time that he's a very valuable, he has a very valuable skill set.

So I assume that's got to come back. Yeah, probably, because I remember him. I think it's like, look, I wasn't happy being a surgeon. I know how to do it. I just wasn't happy. I'm actually happy. Don't mess this up for me. Well, I think that's too late, right?

I mean, Yumiko's already got her letter of, you know, we seem to think that they want them gone, right? I mean, that's what we were told after they're getting arrested for, you know, breaking into the ham radio room because I'm like, well, why aren't they arresting, what's her face? What's her name? Well, Stephanie. Yeah, Stephanie. But they're treating her different because she's already a citizen. Yeah, which is, you know, all right, whatever. And I, and I see that, you know, one of the things that I like the idea of a little princess and mercer business going out of the streets of common. That was great. That was great. the flirting between princess and mercer.

That's all about that. We got more princess this episode, of course, and I know you love that, dad. I did. It was awesome. Yeah, everything about the Commonwealth, I was just into, like, every scene. It was just cool seeing this band of misfits all of a sudden in a town that could be your town, you know?

And it was so great seeing them on the streets, and they look so out of place. Yeah. It was so great seeing them. I felt like the days when Clear Channel, bought J-Corps when I was working for J-Corps communications a thousand years ago. And Clear Channel came in and bought us and we all show up in shorts and T-shirts. Clear Channel's got their khakis on and their dress shirts.

No, that's not. Like, no, Jeffie, you cannot do meth during the broadcast. How things were done back in the day. We're taking the beer out of the soda machine, okay? All right, fine, whatever. said it was enjoyable and it was fun it was a fun element at hilltop with Aaron and Jerry and Carol and Lydia as they realized that there's still saviors no whispers at Hilltop wandering around that was kind of fascinating to see I don't know that I mean Aaron kind of went off the deep end and I guess you kind of have to and I wish you just would have to killed the guy and been done with it, but oh well.

Yeah, that took me by surprise. I wasn't expecting a whisperer throwback at all. I know. Yeah. She was like, wait a minute, they're being hurted. I was like, whoa, what? I noticed it too. They kept walking in circles.

I kind of noticed it. And I was like, oh, no, wait a minute. And then she said it. Yeah. Yeah, no, that entire thing. It's funny when, I don't know, like common sense kind of leaves these shows when everyone's, You know, there's so many people like, nah, don't torture him.

Nah, you know, be nice with him. Like, no. Like, when does that ever worked out? Thank you. Handle your business. Do what you have to at this point. Yes. And I mean, I loved the Aaron torture plan of the, well, it wasn't horned.

It was like a branch from a tree stuck through the walker as he keeps pushing him toward the whisperer guy. That was pretty awesome. That's a good way to torture someone. Yeah, it was pretty dope That a lot Yes I thought it was really interesting Seeing dark Aaron

Also I remember during the show You complaining a lot with Carol When she killed the Walker I don't remember I don't recall that I do I don't recall that And Carol oh I've been to the dark side

You don't want to go there Shut up Shut up Next episode you'll be right back there and you'll be at, you know, struggling with yourself and how you feel about it. All right. Except you guys hated that Carol when she blew up the mind. I just become the dark side.

Just embrace the dark side. And then you'll hate her again. You hated her because she basically almost killed our entire group. I think it was more that she was just acting irrationally. It was more along that. Not that like, so the like Carol that we knew is like not really irrational. She's like calculating. You know, like she pretends to be Susie Homemaker while she's really trying to get in and get intelligence.

You know what I mean? Like she was calculating. And she's, they stopped doing that. That's always annoying with it. Yes. Then she's just lost in this craziness. That's the problem. You're absolutely right.

That's 100% right. It was also enjoyable to the Negan and Maggie thing. I don't know how much more I can take. I mean, it's kind of fun, but it reaches a point where I just want Negan to put a hammer in her skull, be done with it. I don't know how they salvage that, really. I know. Like, where is it going? I'm not really sure.

Sometimes Negan is actually the voice of reason. You know, like, yes, they ended up eventually showing up, but she was going to wait there forever, basically. All right. And then they went after they get there, she does a quick recap and they go, then we wait. And Negan is like, oh, crap. What am I doing here? Well, he'll listen. Here's the thing. One thing we know, he will, he will listen somewhat to the majority, but also he does trust Gabriel. We know that. Yeah, but still. I mean, I don't, I don't, the relationship between Negan and Maggie is I thought that we would be at some point now, There's got to be, like he's trying to tell her, look, we're out here. We got to, we got to be together. All right. We got to, we got to move past this. And I'll never move past it.

I struggle with that every day about killing you. Well, give it your best shot. Let's go. Yeah. I really don't need it. We knew it was going to be uncomfortable between the two as it should be. But I really don't, if they're going to keep Negan around, I don't need to see this, really. I just need to see Carol.

I just need to see, um, Maggie say, we're never going to be friends. I hate you. I wish I could kill you, but for some crappy reason, we need you here. That's all I need to see. And then just let Negan be his normal Negan self. Yes. What's all we need. I don't need this. We don't need this identity crisis. They kind of seem like Negan's going through. And we don't need that. It's not needed. And we've already seen it. We've already seen it. We're okay with his little identity crisis because his identity crisis is, I'm going to kill you,

and then I'll sit over here and be quiet for a while, okay? Yeah. But he also wants the community to trust him. That's why he isn't killing anybody doesn't need to at this point. See, yeah. And we don't need that. No, we don't.

I knew it was going that way when they had, you know, that vision of him smiling and farming in Alexandria. I was like, no, stop. Well, that's always been this character since the comics, where he wants to be he wants to be trusted he won't be but he wants to I don't need that

I don't want that and they're rewriting every other character you know to go along some line so screw it I just want to see Negan be a dick that's what's all I want to see and I want everyone to hate the fact that he's being him being him but they have to put up with it because they need him in these situations

and and I would like to say that maybe perhaps we make it so that at least 90% of the time, he's right. Right, right. He's right. So he's not taken over, but when you ask him and he gives you the answer, you're like, yeah, we got to do it. We got to do it that way.

Yeah, I can agree with that one. Yeah. And so then he's the man. He's just the quiet man. And so when they end up meeting with the Commonwealth and trying to come across, then, you know, everybody, everybody answers, but Negan's sitting in the back going, hmm. No, we're going to do it this way. Yeah. And I don't think we're going to go to war with the Commonwealth.

I honestly don't think we are. The whole storyline of the Commonwealth is basically political infrastructure re-change instead of war. And they're what? They claim, right, and they claim, what, 50,000 strong. And the brother said that he forgets what it's like out there. so they're keeping everybody pretty safe as long as you follow the rules. Yeah. There's got to be more to that.

We're going to hear horror stories or something. Yeah. It's right. Or we're going to see an example being made something. I don't know. There has to be. And maybe the horror story is just that, you know, they pick and choose, right? So if you don't get chosen, we send you back out to the, to the field that's full of walkers, or we hang you out in the woods upside down, just like the,

the Daryl's crew and, you know, leave you to the walkers. Maybe that's the horror story. And then on this side of the wall. Have a cake. Want some ice cream? Right. It's an ice cream. And so I guess we're supposed to hate that, right?

Okay. All right. All right. fine. And the guy comes to save Eugene and the crew as they were getting ready to get kicked out because they're, you know, not citizens yet. And he says that don't move them. So maybe we'll get to meet the head lady, right? He's going to go get her.

Mm-hmm. That'd be cool seeing Pamela Milton. Is that dude, that media dude? Is he in the comic? I believe he is one of them. They didn't really have the commercial in the comics, but he is around as like one of the head guys at the Commonwealth. One of the cheesy promo guys.

I love that promo. I loved it. it's that cheesy promo guy there's actually a poster I don't think it was in the show but they showed it in one of the behind the scenes thing it's basically Mercer as Uncle Sam doing the point going we need you

so the commonwealth leadership why does our group rebel against them like what's their main issue they have with them the main issue Rick had against them was mainly just the way the place was ran he didn't really like the way the place was run under like a class system and he wanted to change that.

That was the main issue. Interesting. Yeah, that is. And that's exactly. That's what I'm saying. That's the horror of it, right? If you don't get chosen, we ship you out and we kill you or you're left to your own devices outside of the wall. Right.

Knowing that if you'd have kept your mouth shut, you'd had an ice cream. So shut up. So in the expanded universe of this, the AMC expanded universe. Yes. CRM seems like it's a lot larger than... It sure does. Because the way they talked about Commonwealth, it was just one town that they gradually took over.

And 50,000 strong with no real... I mean, we didn't see any kind of real military. I mean, we saw... They have, you know, obviously police and security, but CRM has got military. Like helicopters, multiple helicopters and multiple communities. and yeah i think commonwealth is just one big expansion which is what they kind of wanted alexandria to be

yeah yeah yeah and CRM is more of a military state i don't know how they're gonna bring that all i know because CRM wins that battle every day yeah so in the comic rick is supposed to be oh gosh no never mind it's there's no way to compare because it's completely different Well, one,

Spoilers for the comics. Skip around maybe two minutes if you want to know. Are you okay with this, Jason? Yeah, just get to it. That's what we're doing. The reason Rick dies in the comic is by Pamela Milton's son. He kills him because he's pissed that Rick's big speech about changing the way things are worked. And he's pissed that he won't get his privileges anymore.

So he freaking guns down Rick. Why did you have to tell us that? So I'm wondering how they're going to do that. I guess they're going to mimic that storyline, but just with CRM, maybe? I don't know. It's just kind of weird being that CRM is not supposed to exist in this world. Right. I don't know.

And by that time, by the time we get there, it's going to be time for a new sheriff in town, right? Judith is going to be old enough to be in charge and start making some decisions. So Maggie and Negan, who Judith is okay with, and Carol and Daryl, they're going to be old school, right? These are the new kids, the new sheriff in town. Well, Maggie, in the comics, after the big time skip after Rick's death, Maggie's in charge of the Commonwealth, she becomes governor. It's going to be really hard for me to care what Maggie and the rest of the people are doing. doing once they reintroduce Rick and the CRM right side of the story it's like all I want to see from that is Rick to completely take over and like the end scene is the end scene of Conan the barbarian

where he's like sitting on a throne you know with like and like chicks and stuff beside him and then there's like a narrator saying he took the throne by his own hand but that is another story and just end it cut to black that's all we care about that'd be the perfect wow of the walking dead ever. I'm okay. You know what? Why not? Well, we still have, we still have fear and we still have world beyond, which... Yeah, but the whole thing wraps up with the movies and he's sitting on the throne. Have a nice day. Right.

AOC, watch the replays. We're done. Yes, we're done. Roll credit. We haven't really talked about Judith this episode. She was awesome. Yeah. I really wanted her to kill that. that punk. I don't.

It's like this every once in a while you see a really good child actor come out. It seems rare lately, but she is so good. Yeah. So good. Everything's so believable. How old? I don't know how old she is, but like she's summoning tears and crying on Q and I'm like,

dude. Yeah. I think she's like 11 now. I think so. Yeah, look at up. I'm pretty sure she's like 11 now because originally, obviously she was, you know, as Rosita said,

I remember when you guys did your handprints and you were so little. Yeah. We got a Carl reference. I was happy about that. I just wanted her to kill the punk. So I just wanted her to say it again. Say it again.

I wanted to sort right through his throat right then. That would have solved all those. I would have put an end to all the bullying from all those duckleberries. What I love is like that kid instantly backed down. Like, he knew. Like, this is Rick Crimes girl. She ain't playing.

She will freaking kill me. She had, she had to look in her eye like, I will put this sword through your throat, bro. She's 14. Like I said, she's 11. She's 14. 14 now. Wow. And she's been on Walking Dead now for what?

It's got to be six years, seven, five years? Since 2019. So, like I said, four or five years? No, she's been a lot longer than two years. years. No, I think 2019. That's crazy, dude.

I'm sorry, I still can't get over the 14. She does not look 14 at all. Just like 9. See how long she's been on. I don't think she's, I think she's been on longer than that. Seriously. I feel like she was, I feel like the first interview I saw of her,

she was 10 or 11. So that's what I, what I was thinking about 11, which would make her on the death. Okay, 2018. So that's three or four years. So she was 10 or 11 then, yeah. That's what I,

okay. So anyway, she is great. I love her character. You're right. Yes, absolutely. And that hurt,

I mean, when he started, when he slammed his mom leaving and everything, I mean, that did, that was a knife through her heart. Yeah. No question.

And then having the handprint broken. Ooh. Yeah. I guess remember when they were like training for the Whisperer War and she was actually like part of the group that was fighting. Yeah. And I'm like that's, that was awesome. I thought that they were going to like, you know, integrate her more. But they haven't lately.

I don't know why. Push her back into being a kid. Yeah. Screw that. Yeah, I guess. And what's your face? Gracie. Yeah, Gracie.

Yeah, Graycy. And where did she come from? Didn't they just find her? She was originally one of the Savior's kids, and when they, during the Savior, during the Savior War, and when, when the Savior War was going on, they, when they stormed that one warehouse thing owned by the Saviors, they found this one crib with Gracie in it. Right. And then, that's right. And then Aaron adopted her. So she's got Savior blood.

Yeah. She could turn it any time. So, yeah, our main four kids are Judith, Gracie. Herschel and R.J. Yeah, I mean, Judith is the one. She's the one that's going to take over, no question. Yeah, I'm only, I'm only interested in Herschel and Judith with, and Herschel's a very far back second. Right.

But, yeah, they need to, they just need to use her a lot more. She's an awesome actress. The story is awesome. Yeah, I don't, I don't know what they're thinking with just using her sparingly. Makes no sense. And don't, and don't make her turn her into the, uh, everybody leaves me. I'm just so sad.

Better not. I mean, she can walk away feeling that. We want to know that she feels that, but she also needs to be wiping blood off of her sword at that same time. Yeah. Yeah, I feel bad. Damn, I wish I had to kill all those people. That was a real shame.

Everybody leaves me. Oh, darn. So next week we have, we're only with three episodes left. until the mid-season. Until the mid-season break. Wow, it's just incredible. So we have on the inside escaping from walkers. Oh, we found out right that Connie was still alive.

The group found out Connie's alive. The whisperer guy broke out that he saw them coming out of the cave. And I thought, Jason, I know exactly what you're going to say. So go ahead and say it because I thought the same thing. She's still alive? Oh, wow. Great. We were just baited breath.

We were waiting in anticipation. I mean, I didn't know she was alive. If we didn't know what was going to happen to Connie, such a pivotal character. As Max Cue's driving her, she's a fan favorite. I agree with you guys. She's not, she is not by any stretch of the imagination, one of my favorite characters. However, all I'm saying is a lot of fans, including old school fans, find her amazing. I'm not kidding.

What exactly I wonder do they find amazing? I don't know. I don't know, but I'll tell you what, I thought the same thing. Boy, it's a good thing. We didn't kill you, whisperer. We got that information. So what? I love that it was just like an anticipation like, what happened to Connie?

Who cares? A lot of people. I know. She's a fan favorite. She's a fan favorite. Okay. Not this fan. I agree with you.

Speaking, okay, like interested in like side characters. I'm more interested. What was a, what was that guy that, oh man, how many seasons back? I guess it was it during the Savior War or the, I can't remember where it was a black guy. Seemed like, didn't he have long hair. Maybe he didn't have long hair. But he went out and there was like found that card key or whatever. Oh, Keith.

Oh, no, Heath. Heath. Heath. What happened to him? Like, I'm more interested in what happened to him. Like if all of a sudden they said, oh, they're, oh, we found Heath. I'm interested in that because that seems

It's been confirmed It has been confirmed by Gimple They kind There's two reasons One they kind of Somewhat wrote him off Because they didn't know what to do And then they figured out

Oh okay He is now But he was taken the same way Rick was We know he's gonna be part of the movies Basically That has been confirmed Okay so that's interesting Like he's a side character

But that's interesting Carney I could care less It doesn't advance the story. She's a dumb character. I mean, I don't get it. I really don't get it. I know.

So next week it talks about on the inside, escaping from walkers. Connie and Virgil hide in a house occupied by mysterious creatures. And that's where we get the death scenes, right? Yeah. We saw the preview of that where we watched the scene as it would be for her. with no audio. And that was

he yelled at me. He was like, Max, what the hell? Why did you turn off the audio? And I was like, I didn't. They cut it. They cut it because we're following Connie alone. Yeah, I mean, that was kind of interesting as we see her in the house. As she was, you know, going through the feeling the walls and feeling the sounds

that, you know, we would normally hear but, you know, she can't. Oh, yay. I cannot wait for that episode. This is going to be so great. It's pretty amazing to me that we, you know, I would venture to say it. Maybe, you know, I could be wrong. But it's hard for me to believe that we have, we've come this far in the world,

and in the walking dead world. And some people who are legitimately handicapped have still survived. No, I don't believe it. We have the guy in the wheelchair. We have the death lady. No, I don't believe it. I'm sorry, I just don't believe it. Well, the wheelchair guy, you know, he had the truck.

I know. Don't roll your eyes. Yeah, he had the truck. Yeah. Unless they're like something like daredevil where because of their disability, they became a super person. They had to compensate in their other senses all of a sudden became superpower like, something like that. And I guess that's what happened to her, right? I mean, she can feel what's happening around.

her and feel the walkers and feel the breath, I guess. Okay. Worst superhero concept ever. And this other superhero can read. Oh, whoa. Crazy. I mean, I know. I mean, we have polka dot, man.

I know we're supposed to be woke. I know it's okay. We want everybody around us. And everybody's going to survive and be happy. got it but no it's not going to happen and we also have a pope testing darrell's loyalty to the reapers with a conflicting mission mission and kelly leaves alexandria in search of connie so that's what's happening next week with the episode on the inside this is a talking walking dead with jason butchral maximus fisher myself jeff fisher thanks for listening any last thoughts are we out of here

i mean after hearing the description for the next show i think we just leave at that, I'll probably be disgruntled next week. But it's with the superhero. We get Daryl and Pope. I know you guys like Pope. I like Pope, too.

Yeah, that'll be fun. That'll be fun. Thanks for listening to Talking Walking Dead.