Chewing the Fat with Jeff Fisher - S2 E2 | Talking Walking Dead | Dead City 

Episode Date: May 14, 2025

Talking Walking Dead: Dead City  Season Two, Episode Two…  Titled:  Another Shitty Lesson:     With myself Jeff Fisher, Jason Buttrill & Maximus Fisher     SHOW DESCRIPTION ON IMDB:�� Maggie begins a treacherous journey back to the island; Negan reluctantly joins the fight.     Each week we discuss the latest episode and what the future may and should hold.  We also discuss all things Dead.  Email the show [e-mail]  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Season 2, episode 2 of the Walking Dead, Dead City, titled Another Shitty Lesson. The group from Babylon attempt to invade Manhattan. Negan continues to struggle and we find out who the traitor is. This is Talking Walking Dead. Welcome to it. Myself Jeff Fisher, Jason Muttrell, and Maximus Fisher. As we take a look at the latest episode of Dead City, the IMDB description. is Maggie begins a treacherous journey back to the island

and Negan reluctantly joins the fight. Yeah, you know what? My first thought after the episode was, okay, we need to, something needs to happen. I'm really, really tired. But, you know, upon reflection, it was, ah, something needs to happen. You know what?

I was right the first time. Jason Buttron. How you feel? Yeah, I mean, yeah. It's something to watch on a Sunday night. It's not bad, I don't think. It's just the only thing that holds me back is, I guess I'm fully now kind of, you know,

come to the conclusion that the Negan that I want to see is not going to be the one they don't. I know. I know. Which is this crappy realization? I think we are going to get him. I think they're holding him back, but I think we are going to get him.

That's just my opinion. I could be wrong. I don't know. Obviously, we want the Negan to be Negan. We want that desperately. It needs to happen. And this little pussyfooting around struggling with, you know, I don't want to be that guy. Look, you're that guy.

Yeah. Fall into it. Okay, let's make it happen. You're already, you're in the place. I mean, you're in the place where you have to be. him quit struggling just be him and I'm kind of confused because they they make him appear nostalgic at times like when he was telling that story that he was like you take it over you tell the story and he was like smiling through it I was like

chuckling I was like wait a minute is he getting back into the mode or what but I feel like that was a fake smile from him I don't think so I think I've said I said this last episode I think he's genuinely like that part that violence is part of him and he likes it. He just wants to hold it in because he doesn't want to become that guy again, even though at this point he might have to for a little while. Yeah.

I mean, absolutely he has to. Look, and so it was fascinating to me, and you know, of course we lost the general lady, right? Or the governor, whatever. The head lady with the

invasion being bombed down the, you know, heading into New York. So now we just have the colonel and what's her face? I can't remember a stupid name now. That's now in charge, right? The one that Maggie punched. So she's

in charge now, right? Over, over the colonel. I mean, Maggie really is in charge. Basically. Right? But not really. Not according to the, you know, Babylon B hierarchy. Babylon B. I got to say, I Love that ship bomb scene where the ship just started being bombed.

I didn't know the head cowgirl was dead. I just completely missed that. She got blown up. She got blown up, right? That was her getting blown up on the front of the boat. Yeah, well, she got hit by one of the Walker bombs, and you see her guts fly through the main cabin windows. Yeah, I think that was her. It shows how consequential, I think, this new round of baddies actually are.

I was like, yeah. They're trekking through Central Park right now. Yeah. That's kind of cool. I will say, that was kind of cool. At the end of the episode, that is cool. And into the park we go.

It was really cool. And I really, I appreciated the production behind it as they, you know, as they walked into the park, you had the music and then silence and nothing but the, nothing but the bugs and birds chirping in the park. I like that a lot.

That was a good shot. I don't know what they're having to spend on, you know, the, you know, the visual effects alone, just to recreate New York on this. Because they filmed in New York,

too. Like it's a mixture of green screen and real life sets in New York. That's not cheap. No, it is not cheap. At all. We saw them, we saw the filming, when you say filming in New York, we saw them filming in, you know, New Jersey that, you know, obviously was to pretend to be New York. But, you know, that's not cheap either. Either, you know, if you're not filming at Manhattan and you're filming in Jersey, oh, you saved $1,000.

Okay. It's not cheap at all. but it will be great once they get into the city, no question. And the, yeah, they spent a lot. I mean, in the after show show, they talked about how they recreated the boat and the explosions and everything. And yeah, that's not cheap. No matter. I mean, they could have done that, you know, at any sound stage, obviously.

I don't know why they aren't using Mercury Studios, to be honest. But I do that. But it certainly isn't cheap. Yeah, because they use. a real boat for a lot of scenes and then for the explosion scenes they built like a replica boat that they filmed on in like a sound stage.

Yeah, they're doing all right. I think the, if we're because we're all friends of zombie flicks and movies and shows and all that stuff, but the actual standard for this was do you guys remember 28 days later? Yeah, it's getting the third movie coming out soon. I can't wait to watch that. That's going to

be amazing. But like I remember the way they turned London you know, and you actually believed you know, London had completely fallen. The way they did it was just amazing. But I wish the Dead City would get a little bit more into practical, like, scenes. Like, for instance, we got another preview for Daryl Dixon. They're using practical sets, and it looks amazing, as always for that show.

But, man, that is now the new standard for all of these shows, and it's just blowing everybody away. Yeah, Daryl's still at the top so far. Absolutely. So I'm really, I'm struggling with having Negan's struggle. So I'm hoping that, you know, we're past that now because, you know, he got called out for his struggles with the Dama at the theater. I really liked that scene. I'm sorry. I know you guys probably didn't.

I really liked that scene with the guy with the violin because we all knew he was going to die. It was just, I just liked that scene. Yeah, you absolutely knew he was going to die. No question. See, that was so hard seeing Negan like this. He was this juggernaut.

They could not be defeated. Could not be defeated. Like, remember that one scene, like in, it was right before all that war where, uh,

um, he was testing Rick. And Rick, like, was given his little, you know, axe. And they still,

they, they came to blows. Rick is like the, one of the best fighters in the show. Right. He was still getting his butt handed to him by Negan. Like, you could not touch him.

Right. And the only reason he got defeated was, a fluke, you know, you know, when Rick slashed his throat. It was a fluke. I think his butt kicked. It was because he used Carl to his advantage, because Negan respected and liked Carl. Yeah, but then you have these two

goons controlled by what do you call them, Madam Dam or whatever, they're like restraining him? First of all, it's the dama. The dama, whatever. It's in charge of the Dio, so you need to calm down, all right? I'm like, this is a joke. Like, you have these

these joke for, uh, jokes for a bad guys, then you have the cowgirls. Nican would just shred through these people. I mean, I do love what's her face, the Dama, as the bad. She's a great actress. Yeah, and she was, remember, she was in Ozark and played a crazy woman like that, too. Yeah. Yeah, I like, I love, look, she's made a fortune playing this character.

So, bless her heart. I mean, she found her niche and let's use it. Good for her. But I don't know that she, you know, Neegger. and would, you know, he was sitting on stage, take a bat tour now and we're done. Move on. Mr. Security Guard, no, you're going down too.

The security guards are holding him, and they're bringing in, you know, the violin player. And I thought for sure, I went during the invasion scene of the Babylon B coming into Manhattan, that the nerd would probably die because he was such a, was such a dork.

I mean, he would probably live and just swim and be lost in New York on his own. But of course, they found him and, you know, brought him in. So he's definitely one of those guys that has to survive because he's such a doofus. And he's a historian. Yeah, the historian. Right, right, right. And he kept those, he kept at least one drawing from Herschel that he's got,

which is obviously what's going to be seen in that book. Right. Right. Well, we already, we. Speaking of Herschel. Yeah. Speaking of Herschel. I mean, we found out, right, that, I mean, I thought when we, after the invasion, and they got their butts kicked and they're all together and they're concerning about, you know, what they're going to do and they're kind of licking their wounds.

And Maggie sees Herschel banaging up the one soldier from the Babylon B. And she sees the rag that he's using. Now, I was, originally I thought, oh, she's just the memory of her dad, his grandfather, being the doctor and, you know, was just, she was loving on her son. But then, do you see, when I, when dad said that, I was like, that can't be it. This is more of a what the hell look. So I was, I remember rewatching that seed after we had ended the episode. And I was like, hold on.

And I rewound it to the tire scene. And I was like, oh, no. He's the traitor. He's the inside guy. He's the one that started the smoke signal to let them know where they were. Yeah. And he was there. I mean, he just showed up, mom, what are you doing here?

It's fascinating. So he's the traitor. And what is Maggie going to do, man? There's no way. Holy cow, that's what was so devastating for her. That was a good twist. I like that. Yeah.

Herschel's really testing a mother's love because he's just annoying. Like, I don't like him. He's just annoying. Maybe he reminds me of my teenage kids or something. I don't know. I'm like, I just want to just, man. Nothing but love it, Jason's dinner table.

That's hilarious. You remind me of the kid on TV. Shut up. Okay. And now the kid reminds me of them. Shut up. I know. Well, that means she is going to have.

That's a big struggle for her. Because, and that's going to be a big struggle for Negan. Because he's, you know, he's going to be happy that he's, you know, he's going to be happy that he didn't kill him because the Adama has him as the inside man, but he's not going to be happy with him being a traitor. I mean, nobody likes a traitor. I don't even know why they're using Negan in this way anymore. It doesn't make any sense to me.

Because they're using him because he was this big force of nature and will back in the day to rally troops, but they're not, but he's not acting like that. Right. They'll put him in front of people, you know, or put him in charge. He's like, yeah, so that's what we're going to do. He's also still a good strategic mind as well. He's the one that came up with the boat plan. Yeah, okay.

But, okay, all right, let's go with that. All right, he's a good strategic mind. Did it take a good strategic mind to figure that one out? I mean, I don't think so. Maybe, I guess. Okay, maybe. But I just feel like, no, it didn't. I mean, that's part of anyone who was, you know, thinking about being invaded has their plans.

It just, you're right. True. And I'm with you on that is that they're pretending to use him, but he's not being him. I do. Like I said in the beginning of this episode, I think we're still going to get that. I think they're just saving it. Hey, yeah. And I'll be, and I hope you're right.

You know, I'll, uh, I'll be overjoyed with. the show if we can get further into that. I just, I don't, I think the writers have kind of backed him into a corner and they don't really know how to unleash him, which is, which is, which is, which sucks, because you like the character for the way it was written before. Yeah. And now when you throw in, you know, they had to ride in a family and a wife and kid and all this stuff and that fundamentally changed him and well, if he's fundamentally changed, then why do we even care? You know, I'm kind of, I'm starting to slide in that direction, which sucks because I don't want to. slide into that direction. But

let's see. Maybe it changes. So why is Croat still alive? Because he's the mastermind behind the fuel? Yeah, he's the mastermind behind the fuel. Yeah, he's not a, he's smart. Like, he's the mastermind behind the

like all the mechanics of New York, I guess, like what they're trying to do mechanically with the city. Okay, well, the if Degan takes him out and the Dama at the same time, then, you know, there's got to be someone at the Babylon B that can know how to burn bodies to create fuel, right? Somebody's got to be there.

Has to be someone alive to figure it out, right? I see him. Actually, I'm kind of opposite. I think that he's one of the only essentials there. Like, the Dama is not essential. She's a 90-pound 75-year-old. She's not essential at all. She'd be one of the first ones to die.

Right. Negan is balless he'd be one of the second ones to die Croats actually smart so I could see someone more powerful leveraging him and using him which is that's what's happening but it wouldn't be Adam Danor

it wouldn't be the Dama right well it's the Dama I guess I kind of disagree with you on that one I like her as a character so far that's just my opinion but I understand where you're coming from Jason yeah I mean Yeah, I don't know.

Like, her as a bad guy made sense to me in Ozark because she had a ton of money and she had a lot of influence because of that. We're talking post-apocalyptic zombie era where people like old Negan, they would run the show in every single community everywhere. Not a 70-pound, you know, 70-year-old, 85-pound old lady. Right. It wouldn't happen. So if Negan can bring the. the factions together

than he doesn't need the Dama. He doesn't need her. He brings the factions together and have a nice day, take care. It's completely irrelevant. Completely. Yeah. She's already completely irrelevant,

but it would make it even more so than... I mean, her knowledge now is she's got the inside that she's, you know, she's beating down this little kid. Yeah, the real... Her real, like, point right now is, okay, she's the connection to Herschel turning. Why did Herschel, like, turn?

Yeah. She's got to have someone else, too, though, right? So you have your, you have your finger exactly on where this plot should go. Negan should make a public execution of her. It would freak everyone out. And then Negan's in charge. And then Negan has to somehow wrestle with keeping the horde at bay and keeping them in line under his boot. but also somehow helping Maggie and Herschel and that other little chick, whatever her name is.

Jenny. Yeah. So much more believable and so much better. Yeah. Because, well, I mean, we know now that Jenny's got a gun. I knew that was coming. What are we doing? I've been singing that stupid song all week.

Better than easy street. No doubt. No doubt. So, yeah. I mean, I think, you know, AMC, you're welcome. More free content for you. Maybe you can step back. I know that the shows have already been filmed.

You've got the money. Shoot it the way. If you haven't done what we advised, you need to reshoot. That needs to happen. I'll start shooting this week. Well, six episodes left, right? Yeah. And then this next episode is what the,

why did the mainlanders cross the river? to get to the other side. I mean, okay. So the traversing through the park, hopefully will be fun. Maybe we'll just get that. And not so much the dach, the dama. And we'll get the struggle with Maggie keeping Herschel alive. Oh, you need to relax.

It's amazing, amazing. Thank you. Who Maggie will struggle keeping Herschel alive. in the park knowing that he's the traitor. That's a, man, that's a tough call for her. We'll say I like that. I like that twist a lot. That is a really good twist of Herschel being a, like being the one that signaled them.

And now we have the, the colonel, right? Not the, he's not the sheriff or the marshal. He's the colonel. And the new head of the Babylon B army, who that's the one that, uh, it's going to have to come around to Maggie's way of thinking. right she was already doubting maggie and now the tide has turned

a little bit uh Maggie was right so was that lady the full on leader of all the cowgirls or is there somebody else above them there was somebody else above them the girl that had the curly hair in the beginning of the episode that got blown up

that you missed apparently she was in charge of all of them now she was in charge of the military right I think no I think no it said governor so her her title was governor so she probably wasn't like fully in charge okay okay and then she got blown up okay because maggie had talked about them voting to become part of the baby people and that that was just a security measure right so i guess she maybe she was the one in charge

they were they were portraying her as the the governor in charge of the entire uh the babylon forces and then she gets blown up. Wow, that's going to be, it's going to be turmoil. Back at the Babylon B headquarters, though. Once news gets back. Put the marshal in charge. We know he's a good dude.

So we've got... I like knowing him as the marshal more than the colonel. So we've got Madam Dam and the next head Calgary up. These are the... Yes, that's correct. Manipulating the battlefield. And this dangerous world. All right.

So the top, I mean, you have, you have and again I repeat the Dama in charge of of New York and then you have at least seemingly in charge I mean those those other factions that she doesn't really control

but she does control the energy so she has that little power and then we have Negan and the Croat Maggie and the new chick you know that new chick from Babylon

except I wouldn't consider her a villain right now. They're on the same team. No, she's not a villain, but, you know, all the, all the people in charge except for Negan, well, and Croat, but he's, you know, he's just our main smart new boy. So Negan and the Marshall are the only two men and they're all, everybody is under the control of a female, just like real life. Yeah. Seriously. Yeah. Got joking outside that. That was a, that was a bad joke. No, it's pretty accurate. That is accurate. I disagree, but

thank you. So I'm looking forward to it anyway. I mean, it is definitely an episode, episodes that I want to watch. I am expecting a little bit more, though. They better, they got a hop sec on it. I don't know what that is.

I think it is the framework that we laid out here today, but I do, and I want, I don't know. I'm curious what the real thing I'm really curious about. And Jason, I want your thoughts on this. What do you think they're going to do with Herschel? I hate this.

This sucks to say, but I don't really care right now. Maybe it's because I, I, I, maybe it's because, like, I became a fan of the show based off of, you know, the original series and the characters that they got us to love. I don't really care too much about these new characters as much. And maybe that's a, I could be a complete minority in the audience on that. And I don't much care for how they've changed the characters into a completely different entities. I will say, I will say, uh, it would be awesome to have the Dama kill Herschel in front of Maggie and Negan and Maggie then going scorched earth. Would. Yeah. Absolutely would. Or Jenny. I could see that happening.

Brinigan, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, either one, yeah, I would not, I would not care. I wouldn't be like, oh, boo, who those characters are gone, but I would care about what it would, the catalyst it would create. Which it would. That would definitely create a cascade of events.

Yeah. And they would just go scorched earth, which would be awesome, which is what I want. I think I think I've decided. I want scorched earth. Yeah, but I mean, what I've seen from these characters is just like now, Like I came to the real, I was just thinking during this episode, I was like, man, I feel like they've painted all these beloved characters into a corner from which they weren't before, but they want you to believe they are now. And they're just not as interesting. Like Maggie was so much more interesting as the Southern Bell, who was still a badass, but still like, you know, you know, it was still very lovable and had a whole lot of heart, but was still the Southern Bell at heart.

there was this conflict in her. Now there's not that, really. She's just like, she's the, you know, badass military leader. And I'm like, that was after the, the thing is she became that after Glenn died. But there was all, sure, but she had to step into that, but there was always the conflict.

You know, there was still the Southern Bell lovable character conflict. And when you have these like one-dimensional characters and some of, and how like all the modern filmmaking is making them now, it's just not interesting. But I don't know. Well, and it could be a slow process, right? We know that, like you said, we've painted them into this corner.

They've got to get them out. And, I mean, the only way out is to really turn them. And I think Herschel's death and maybe even Herschel and Jenny together would do that. And it would make them have to work together. Negan and Maggie and Maggie still having in the back of her head that, you know, the guy I'm working with, uh, kill my husband. So, right. I almost, I almost feel like at some point Maggie has to give Negan permission.

Like sometimes I feel like he's like, like, Negan's waiting to get the permission to go, you know, to be let off the leash. I feel like Maggie could say, okay, I get what you're doing here. It's admirable. You know, I see that you're, you've proven to me that you've, you're a change man. Appreciate you saved me, saving my son in my life. Right. I got it.

But for God's sake, man. Snap out of it. In fact, you know what? That should be the title of the season. For God's sake, man. You're right. Snap out of it. All right.

So next week, why did the mainlanders cross the river? Looking forward to it. Thank you to Jason Butchell. We already decided. For God's sake, man. Snap out of it. Maximus. Any final thoughts?

I'm excited to see where this goes. I do kind of agree with you as some of of the stuff in the show is a bit interesting to say the least to see where it goes, but my favorite part was definitely the Herschel's Whist. And I can't wait to see where that goes. Yeah. So, yeah, I can't see you guys next week. And for God's sake, man, snap out of it.

Thanks for listening to Talking Walking Dead.