Chewing the Fat with Jeff Fisher - S2 E3 | Talking Walking Dead | Dead City 

Episode Date: May 19, 2025

 Talking Walking Dead: Dead City  Season Two, Episode Three…  Titled:  Why Did the Mainlanders Cross the River?     With myself Jeff Fisher, Jason Buttrill & Maximus Fisher     SHOW DESCRIPTION ON IMDB:  Negan tries something new with Croat; Maggie travels into a dangerous, surprising place.     Each week we discuss the latest episode and what the future may and should hold.  We also discuss all things Dead.  Email the show [e-mail]  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Season 2, Episode 3, The Walking Dead Dead City, titled Why Did the Mainlanders Cross the River? We left last week with our Babylon group headed into what we know as Central Park to face the unexpected. And the unexpected is what we found. This is Talking Walking Dead. Welcome to it. Myself, Jeff Fisher, Jason Butchell, and Maximus Fisher. As we take a look at the latest episode of Dead City, the IMDB description is Negan tries something new with the Croat,

and Maggie travels into the dangerous, surprising places. And we did get the answer from Negan to the title of the show, why did the mainlanders cross the river? They didn't. Thank you. Thank you. That was his answer. trying to be funny in the park.

Ha ha, got it. Mr. Butrell, you know, I got a must say, just off the top of my head, I did enjoy the episode. Overall, overall, I did enjoy the episode. There were a few, you know, nitpickies which we're going to get into, but overall, I did enjoy it. Yeah, I think I agree. I enjoyed it. It was weird, very weird in some parts. But I like the, I actually, I'm not one for the, you know, the backstories or the flashbacks,

but I kind of enjoyed them. I think they were necessary to actually realize what Madam Dam is all about. Yeah. And I didn't hate it. It's the Dama, first of all. I don't know how many times we have to go over this, but it is the Dama. I'll call her what a dama. So that makes more sense to me and I'm a little bit more happy with it.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I thought this was the best episode so far. I get it we're only three episodes in. But yeah, I genuinely liked a lot of stuff in this episode. And yeah, the flashbacks with the Dama and Herschel were the best part of the episode. You know, last week, I thought maybe we had brought you over to the Jason Jeff Fisher side. Yeah.

Now we're back to Maximus. Okay. I was like, I was like, I need my max today to be the, you know, the shining, you know. perspective on the hill and talk me down. I didn't like last episode that much. I'll be honest. But when that didn't happen, I was like, we are so screwed. Show's over.

It's done. But you're back. So the check cleared from AMC? Oh, God. Okay. I'll just check. I did not see the deposit. I fully agree.

Remember, everybody, if you're curious, go back to the world beyond days when we all agreed that show was bad. Yeah, that's true. So, yeah, the flashbacks were good. I mean, the mental game that the Damo did on Herschel was great, really good. I mean, it definitely brought him to her side. Yeah, and the Croat kind of set that up with, like, you know, that comment about how she made me believe. Yeah.

Like, in myself and all the stuff. Like, I get her manipulation game, and it's almost like this, like, I don't know, almost like a very motherly manipulation. Yeah, kind of. I guess. Maybe describe it. And we don't really know what's true and what's not true, right? I mean, she's talking to Herschel about, you know, losing someone. I mean, she's just telling him what he wants to hear, right?

What sets up, same with the Croat, right? Yeah. He talked about his, you know, being washed up on shore and then waking up to, you know, the sofa and food and, you know, the dama taking care of him. With the walnut brittle. Yeah. Yeah, I don't, yeah, I get really irritated with like the, you know, the, the badass stuff that just gets thrown down our throat. But this is clearly not that.

It's like, it's actually a believable, it's more of a believable girl boss. And let's just face it, you know, girls, you know, women, they're listening to this. You, your sex is a lot better at the mind games than we are. That is 100%. And they're going the route of even more like kind of narcissistic. sadistic mom manipulation, which I'm like,

okay, I can kind of get this now. I see it. Definitely a cult. We know how it works, and she definitely does that. But we don't know exactly where she came from. Yeah.

So our group goes into the flashbacks were a good part of that. So we go into the park, which was awesome. There were some great scenes in the park. I, I will say, we did.

get another girl boss with the bush people. I don't think the foragers were girl boss. No, she was. The girl was like, what? Okay, but I do have Roxana was her name, leader of the bush people,

the foragers. But I will say this, just on a side note, okay? Technically, technically, it's not a girl boss because the person who plays Roxana is trans.

So... Shut up. I'm just saying. I'm just saying that technically... Are you shitting me? Are you shitting me? You might want to cut this out, people. Now leave it in.

Are you serious? Yes, I am. 100%. All right, AMC. Yep. I know. And I love... Look, I love her character.

You know, she has been out as trans. for quite some time. And she's been in a lot of shows and done a lot of stuff and I appreciate her work. But I'm just saying technically, it's not a girl boss. That's all I'm saying.

Okay. You confuse me by saying her work and she, but now I just don't know what's happening. Oh, God. Completely unconfewed. Her pronouns are she and her. So get off me. Oh, Lord.

Get off me. Sorry, everybody. All right. Sorry, everybody. I'm a fan of the Bush people. I loved them. I thought it was cool. when Herschel was, you know, by himself in the park and he saw the one Bush girl, you know, looking at him and he's trying to figure out what's going on, he thought he saw something, and he actually did.

And we find out later in the show why there are walkers with holes in their chests. That was really interesting. I genuinely liked that. I did, too. When the Bush people lose someone, they take their heart out, feed it to the walkers, and they don't kill them. they let their people become walkers who they believe protect them. I kind of like it. I kind of like it.

Yeah. So, okay. I didn't know if they were trying. Yeah, okay, so it was so weird with the, with the chanting and the religious overtones and all that stuff.

Yeah, like I didn't know if it was almost like they were heavily implying that something they were doing was working. I know. That's what I mean. They believe that those walkers are. protecting them. Well, not only that, but like, they haven't even found. They fed the heart to the walkers at the end. Right. The walkers took the gift and walked away. Yeah. And Maggie's standing there,

like, you know, in full view. And the girl like the animates stands up and walks away with them. I'm like, okay. Like, huh? This is not how walkers react or act at all. I know. And that, it was really strange, right? Because remember early on in the dead, right? And we have seen glimpses of this throughout this different shows that, you know, with walkers being able to open doors, with the fast moving walkers, obviously, in Europe. And then they can grab stuff. And that it was, what's his face his wife? Morgan. Morgan's wife that kept coming back to the front door of the house, of her house on the street there, right?

So we've seen glimpses of this. you know, throughout the shows. So is it, okay. I mean, that's what, if they believe it and it's happening, then I guess it's true. I don't know. It's weird. And I was thinking at first like, oh, this is like, kind of like they're bringing back the whispers kind of.

Somewhat. Because it kind of, somewhat kind of act like that. But then, but then when they added the religious thing in there, I was like, they don't really, well, the whispers never had, I mean, they just kind of controlled. them, right? They just kept them under control. These people are saying that, you know, because we make an offering to the walker gods, and there are people that they protect us here in the park. What's interesting is they have not been found by any of the, like the DOM or anybody,

because they're just, they're in overgrown Central Park and they're surrounded by the walkers. Yeah, and they're scared to go in there. Yeah. As per the Croat. So, I mean, I don't know. it's kind of cool that's why I like I wanted more

it worked because I wanted more on this I know like I don't want this to go away I don't I don't think this was a one-off I really like the four years and we know that what's her face the new colonel or boss chick from the Babylon B people that was you know

he's now in charge over Marshall and Maggie not really but she's you know trying to make deals with the with the Bush people they're like, um, no. No, we don't want what you have to offer. I like how the, the colonel was like, when she was planning the hostile takeover, he was like, hey, they just lost someone. No. Right.

Yeah. I thought she, I thought he was subservient to her, because that's kind of how it seemed before. Now it seems opposite. Yeah, because he's, he said that he's with Maggie, right? Maggie has kind of won him over to what they were doing. and that kind of takes him away from the Babylon B people. Yeah, and he called her captain. He goes, captain. That's what it is, yeah.

You know, like putting her in her place. I thought he said major. I thought he said major. Either way, but either way, if it was, it would still be below him. Correct, correct. So like, but so maybe you're not, you're not, well, there you go, because what's her face died, the head lady, right? Governor, yeah. Yeah, okay.

And, uh, so when she dies, that put, uh, our girl in charge of, of the military people, but I, but maybe not. Marshall figures that's his job. He's a colonel. That's, it's his now, right? I get, yeah, I guess her power was just because she was right next to the governor. Right. So now that's away now she's underneath him.

I guess I don't know. I mean, that's what, I guess that was what he figured out. All right? Because, um, Maggie's not taking it. Um, uh, we'll see. I mean, it's the, the Maggie thing is, uh, is interesting because, and she even said, whatever you, you know, it works for Babylon,

it doesn't work for anybody else. You know, to the, no, you're not making anything better for anyone, except for your people. All the Negan stuff, this episode was fun. Was it, though? I like the Negan kill. I will say he's, you know, he's broke away from the struggling Negan a little bit, but we need to, I need more of that.

I need more of a lot more of that. What's crazy about the Negan stuff, like I did like the one kill. where he, you know, threw that spear through the guys, you know, back. I thought that was kind of cool. And he wanted to earlier. You know, they alluded to that earlier. Because he left, he left him alone with the walkers. Yeah, with the Vine Walkers, which was awesome.

It was a really good scene. Yeah, but. He wanted to kill him before then, remember? Yeah. And he was thinking about just ramming that spear through his head right then. But what was interesting is there was so much, I won't say so much. There was a couple of things that they were doing in this show that made me kind of forget about them not doing Negan the way I want them to do him.

You know, like with the flashbacks, with this other group that was just so weirdly interesting. Right. I stopped caring a little bit about that and not focusing on that so much. So I guess that's what made this the best episode. And I do not disagree with that, although I will say maybe for Negan to show up and have to re-kill the Kroa. Croat guy, the vine because he apparently didn't die in the vine kill.

Because that was the same guy, right? Yeah, it was the same guy. Because remember he was covered in bites, he was... Right, right, right, right, right. That's what I thought. So, for Negan to just show up and, you know, put the spear through him and save Herschel and then just be gone, I felt kind of forced just so that Negan would run into them.

and I don't think we actually needed that. I think I'm with you on Jason as far as the Nagan stuff was kind of an aside this episode. I love, I got to admit, in the beginning of the episode, I love the line from the Croat. He was like, look, I understand what you were trying to do with the boat. You've always drawn the line of kids that you always have. So don't worry, when we find them all, you won't have to be the one that kills him. Right. And that's when that's when the other soldier said,

I'll do it for you. No, you won't. I feel like the Croat is kind of like us as far as like what he thinks Nigen is. And we all want him to be. Yes. So he's really to give him excuses. Like he's constantly. He's like, yeah, I don't believe that the other guy just died.

He sees blood on him. I know the old Nogahian. I know the Nogis is in there. You're in there. You do you, brother. Come on. Yes, that's exactly right. We're having brunch in the middle of a street here in Manhattan.

I know you. Right. The audience is like, yes. I think that's next. The preview for next episode, it looked like we might get some old Negan again. Well, he's going to have to. Right. I mean, he's going to have to produce.

See, that's the thing. Are we getting old Negan? And we're actually just getting an acting old Negan. Gritting his teeth going to... The whole time. Like that speech. Not wanting to be, not wanting to be Negan, but he's going to be Negan. Which I don't know that I like.

No, it's more agonizing. anything else. Yeah, it most definitely is, which is very frustrating. But on the other hand, I know you're in there. I know you're in there. So come out, okay?

I do. Show the rest of us that you're in there. It's okay. Yeah. I will say that, and I'll make this point again, the Madam Dam, yes,

trademarked, character is so much more interesting to me and actually a little bit believable at this point. Because if she does that shtick with everyone, the big baddies are going to want to protect her. Because she's mom.

Yeah, that's the cult leader, man. She's a, yeah, she's a cult mom that everyone wants to protect because she sees the good in them. And yeah. She wants to change the world. She doesn't want to go back to the old ways. She believes this is the best way.

Yeah, she definitely believable with what she told Rachel. I think, I truly believe she believes what she told Horsuchel. I don't think she was lying about that. And the elevator art room. Oh, I love the elevator room. Kind of cool. Kind of cool. I did like that. Yeah, and she's got an

uncanny way of, you know, bring those like that, bring a maternal angle to like how they're misunderstood and how, look, we can forget all that crap in the past that you have. I don't even care about it. This is what I see in you and this is what we can do together.

Now let's not forget. Now let's not forget. There's going to be some things that have to happen in the future that we're going to have to do. And that's going to have to, you know, we're just going to have to come to terms with that right now. You will have to kill some people. Sorry about it, but it's just going to have to happen. But just know, it's for us. Right. It's for us.

It's the greater good. And like her, and then her later in the episode, Herschel basically yelling at Maggie about it too, like about Negan and that, like that was. Yeah, repeating her line about not caring. it's all about, you know, you're sucking all the energy, it's all about you, no room for me. Oof. Oh! Because in the beginning, when they're first starting to head into the park, Maggie can't stop focusing on the bandage, which she knows. That's what tells her that Herschel is the traitor.

And she's just trying to, you know, trying to get inside of Herschel's head to figure out what is happening and how he is, how he's going to go against them. Yeah, Herschel's clearly got mommy issues. He's clearly got mommy issues. Oh, yeah. It's like, and I don't think at this point, I think he goes back and forth depending on just whatever the whim is on who he thinks is his real mommy at this point. Because like, there was that scene on the boat with that other little girl where he was like, she's my mom, not yours. And I was like, oh, Jenny. Yeah, when she was with Jenny.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. He's got mommy issues. I have no question. That's right. He thinks he's been neglected. Right. Yeah.

But I don't know. Yeah, it's going to be, it's going to be, I think, a cool scene when it's Maggie, Madam Dam, and Herschel all in this one scene. In one room, yeah. And he has to make a choice. Yeah. Because he's going to make the choice to the Dama. The who?

The Dama. Oh, yeah, okay. He's going to make, I mean, that has to be his choice, right? I mean the, I'm sorry, what's her name? You're talking about Madam Damn? Maybe if you assigned Madam Dam's pronouns. Maybe that would like, I would know who you're talking about. That's the head of the Bush people.

The, uh, the, um, with if that comes, if that when the day comes in, it probably will when he's in that room with, with his mom and, um, the dama and he has to make that choice the choice is the dama the choice is not maggie i'm sorry no now nigan may change you know he doesn't care he says he doesn't care about nigen but nigen has saved him more than once and nigan may be able to uh convince him that he was uh cultified after he puts the baseball bat through the dama's head which i think we all want as she's nibbling on her little Wal-night brittle or whatever she's eating which I'm okay with

and keep the thumb down on the electric shock of that thing while he's doing it which he didn't have this episode and they gave him the spear which was a little disappointing and after he killed the guy and disappeared all of a sudden he's just back in the city he made it back we didn't have to see the Negan journey out of the park which I found fascinating

which I guess that's what I meant It was just, I felt him finding that. And because of that is why I was thinking that him finding Herschel and the soldier, I mean, finding the soldier, maybe I give him, but finding Herschel and saving him, that was a little forced, I thought, you know, just to make it happen. And I don't necessarily think we needed it, but maybe we did. Yeah, we did in the long run of when they are all.

together. Maybe we needed it so that he can see that Negan, remember that Negan saved him once again. And he saved him because he feels bad about killing his dad, who he doesn't care about, but his mom does. And that's when he needs to just put the Dama down. And he'll be upset that the Dama is laying there with the baseball bat in her head and the walnut brittle in her mouth. But he'll be able to realize they'll have to decultify him then.

It's they're setting up an interesting play between Madame Dam and uh yeah and uh Maggie McGie and Negan I think yeah because because Negan you know that saying you can't BS a BSer right yeah like Negan I see Negan and and you know this big boss lady as almost the same real oh very similar and they just have different ways of doing it oh yeah and she can too she she knows that he's not a personality because of just how they're built and how their minds work she's not one that can go to him and make him believe, hey, I'm your mama. He don't care. Right.

He don't care. Why do you think when he was talking to the crowd? He's like, why did she treat you like a redhead stepchild? And the crowd just went, you don't know her like I do. And he's just like, okay. Yeah. But she knows this as well. So he's not safe there at all.

darn right she does. Yeah, it's going to, it's very interesting. I like the, you know, when he returns to me, Manhattan and with the Croat was in the car singing and then hands of the yeah we lost your pal sorry about that and uh pulls out the handkerchief accidents happen yeah he knows what that really happened oh very he knows he knows but he thinks that's one step closer to getting yes it is and so he just transforms back yes that means he's getting closer to the nigan i know is in there i know the old niggins is in there next episode we're looks like we're

Fight Club, so that's fun. Feisty Friendly is the title. It's directed by Lauren Cohen herself. So we'll see if it's worthy. She does a couple of episodes. I think this one in episode six, she directs. So, I mean, she's getting her hand wet in the show. We'll see how it goes.

I mean, sorry, I had to make this point. When you said, you know, when you're talking about the Croatian knowing that that old Nigan is in there, like that just seems terrifying to me that you'd want to bring that back. And I just got those flashbacks of the first time we saw, like, was it maybe when Daryl was walking around the sanctuary when he was captive? Oh, yeah. You saw for the first time how he even had. Yeah, and how everyone had to kneel when he walked by. Well, they just did it, right?

I don't know if they had to, but, I mean, it just happened. Yeah. I mean, damn. I mean, that's what you're, like, trying to bring back. Like, you know how far this goes. The iron to the face. to Dwight. That Negan.

Right. That Negan is who we want back. I know. The Negan where all his civilians, his non-warriers, if you were one of his workers, you had to work for points to get stuff. Yeah. The Negan who said, you know, we're coming into your territory. And guess what?

It's mine now. And whatever you have, well, it's really mine. And I'll let you, I'll decide what you can have from now on. I'll never forget, like... I know. I know. I'll never forget the interesting thing. That's what I want, though.

Oh, obviously. Yeah, it's good, see that. Off topic, I know, but what I always found interesting with Negan is who he went, like, when he went to different places. He rarely went to Hilltop and he never went to the kingdom himself. It was always his lackeys. He always went to Alexandria because he knew Rick would be a problem. Right. Yeah.

What did, what did, uh, why did they, run Crowad off again? He lied to him about something? The Crow out was a bit too extreme and he killed a kid. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

So, Deegan was like, okay, time to get rid of you and then he missed. That's important context for the conversations in this last episode too. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, out of all the bad guys in this show and comic and everything,

he was always the most terrifying to me. Just because of just shoot through sheer force of personality what he could command his followers to do. I know that, you know, I know a lot of the world went away from the Walking Dead when Niggott killed Herschel's dad now.

And, uh, because, you know, because it was just so horrible. It went to baseball. Glenn's death, yeah. The thing is, that was his comic death too. The, the thing that went, the, the walking dead, in my opinion, the biggest decision that they shouldn't have made. Glenn's

death, they kept. I'm happy about that. Carl's death. That should It shouldn't have happened. No, it shouldn't have. But my point is about Negan, though. Remember, so prior to that, though, when he comes out of that SUV or camper or whatever he was in, I mean, the world stopped. We finally, I mean, he's there, right? I mean, holy cow. That's the Negan we want back? Yes is the answer. Yes is the answer from me. on our side or how about or how about this one the Negan that was undercover with the whisperers

the one that was still super brutal and then the one that tried to convince Alpha don't do it don't do it and then when she was like okay I'm still not listening to you he cuts off her head

and puts it on a pike yeah you know what's what's so crazy is yeah so bad guys don't have a good lifespan in this show like they all get taken down as they should he know, good versus evil.

But in my perfect Walking Dead universe world, like Negan is okay with our group because he has the history with him. So there's no issues there. But he becomes the new, basically what he was in Manhattan. He just dares all these other conglomerants to come mess with him. I wish that would happen. Yes, that needs to happen. I would love it.

And Croak can go down there and manage the power plant and leave me be. Yeah, I'm all about that. It'd be so great. Yes, I want, that's exactly what I want to happen. And Maggie can go off and suck her wounds and, you know, decide whether she wants to be with Herschel or just live alone somewhere. And the dead city becomes Negan City. I'm okay with that. Like, he takes control, like he kills the, the dama and all the, and all, he makes all the other groups bow to him.

Yeah, except for the Bush people. unless the Bush people live. All right. So next week we have, as I said, what was it, feisty, friendly, and Maggie, Lauren Cohen directs it. So we'll see. This episode got me back into it. No question about it.

Yeah. No, yeah, I'm agreed. I'm glad they did the explanation. I needed that badly. And it's got me a little more excited to see what I take it. Absolutely. Yeah, the one thing I am most interested about the goal. going forward is the Herschel stuff.

Are they going to kill off Herschel? Probably not. But it'd be a shock. It would be interesting. Say he goes full, like, into it and say the Dama dies, he takes over. Imagine that. Okay. I don't know that.

I don't think that's going to happen, but it'd be interesting. It would be, it'd be interesting if he does that and holds Maggie captive. Might hold his mom captive down in the same cell he was in. I could see that happening, actually. Yeah. Yeah. You just don't understand her. Just listen to her.

Right. Right. With her still being alive. Yeah. Right. Man, this would be so interesting. And it will take a Neegan bat to the head to finally end that whole delusion. Absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. We'll wait for the Negan bat to the head. Thank you. Another week of a Talking Walking Dead, Jason Bunchel, Maximus Fisher. Myself, Jeff Fisher. We'll see you next week on Talking Walking Dead.