Chief Change Officer - #227 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part Two

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

Some people color inside the lines. Others—like Sara Lobkovich—ditch the coloring book altogether and make their own rules. A proud introvert, ADHDer, and change-maker, Sara turned years of navigating life’s twists into two books designed to help others do the same. In Part 1, we’ll hear how she went from feeling like an outsider to building a thriving career by embracing what makes her different. And in Part 2, we’ll break down her books—what’s inside, who they’re for, and why they actually work.Key Highlights of Our Interview:A Love Letter To Square Pegs Who Don't Fit In"This book is a love letter to me earlier in my career. I know I'm not alone. I know there are so many other people who are having experiences like I did.If I had written this earlier in my life, if I had somehow had the capacity to write this earlier in my life, I would have written a book to people who are strategically wired and feel like they don't fit in a world that's really focused on tactics to people who feel like square pegs in their careers, like we're always a square peg trying to fit into a round hole and just don't fit in."Two Books, One Mission: Simplifying Strategy and Goal Setting“I realized I had two books: one is the No BS OKRs workbook, and the other is about modernized, human-centered strategic planning.”The Moment ‘You Are a Strategist’ Became the Book Title I Had to Write“I knew the title had to be ‘You Are a Strategist.’ I rewrote the book to deliver on that title.”Empowering Your Inner Strategist: No Matter What Job You Do“You might be a dishwasher, noticing things in the restaurant—there’s strategy in everything we do.”_____________________Connect with us:Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Sara Lobkovich______________________--Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Deep Human Intelligence for Growth Progressives, Visionary Underdogs,TransformationGurus & Bold Hearts.6 Million+ All-Time Downloads.Reaching 80+ Countries Daily.Global Top 3% Podcast.Top 10 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>100,000+ subscribers are outgrowing. Act Today.

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Oshul is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. This episode and the last one are for the introverts, the ADHDs, those on the autism spectrum, trauma survivors, strategy-brained square packsaries combined, as well as thinker-doers. Why? Because our guest today, Sarah Lobkovich, is part of these groups, and she's not holding back anymore. In fact, she spent months writing two books that bring together her life lessons and business experience to help us all wake up our inner strategist and achieve big goals.

No BS. In the last episode, part one, we looked into who Sarah is, was she's been through, and how her past has shaped her purpose today. In this episode, part two, we'll dig into the book, her why, her audience, her objectives, and her vision. her audience, her objectives, and her vision. That said, Sarah's story and her book aren't just personal. They are also deeply rational. She's packed it with tools, analysis, and a lot of business concepts.

For anyone familiar with business school models and buzzwords, you'll find her approach balances speaking to a specific audience while delivering real business value. Let's get started. Yeah, I can share from my experience. I can't speak for the larger field, because I think my experience was a little unusual. I tried to go the big agency strategy route. I had a few years where I applied over and over to the names that you just mentioned and more. And I really wanted to get in that big agency strategy consulting space. And I never even got a call because I didn't have the right

names on my resume. I didn't have the right experience. I wasn't at the right stage of my career. I didn't come from the right school. So I have worked with lots of those consultants. I've worked alongside those consultants. I have been brought in after this test, done with those consultants, and done additional work where it wasn't as successful. And so I've seen that big strategy machine operate. I've seen that big strategy machine operate.

I've also worked with folks who come from that world who are some of my dearest colleagues, incredibly talented people. They learned brilliant ways of working in that environment and really strong frameworks for working in those environments. Learned how to work well and how to serve clients well. So I've observed and learned a lot being adjacent to those types.

But that, the big agency thing just wasn't something that I was a candidate for. So I worked in smaller agencies. I worked in creative agencies to begin with, and then I started working in smaller consultancies. And I think some of the misconceptions or misunderstandings in the workplace, I think, too often, often the words strategy and smart are conflated. So being strategic or being a strategist is not just being the smartest person in the room. Being a strategist is being someone who is curious and has a toolkit of questions that help uncover facts and observations that then spark insight and let us develop ideas. And so I think that's the thing that I didn't realize until really late is being a strategist. I'm looking at a book on my bookshelf right now that I always keep within arms link by

Mark Pollard and it's called Strategy is Your Words, but he is very much from the school. He's a rebel in strategy. He's a delightful rebel in the field of strategy and And strategy is your word, strategy is your questions. Strategy is the curiosity to ask questions that yield facts and observations and possibility that wasn't there before the questions were asked. So I think we just think of, I don't, for one, I don't think a lot of people know what strategy is as a field. But for two, when we do, I think we think of strategists as the Mad Men reference, the

Don Draper. He's an account guy, but he's also strategic. The polished person in the suit at the front of the room that's got the line and the story and the room is captivated by the strategy that's being unfolded. And the world of strategy that I've always worked in is not that. It's me and other collaborators from a diverse range of backgrounds, standing at a whiteboard on a Saturday, trying to solve a problem that we're so excited to solve together or to create possibility around that we're there by choice on a Saturday. Standing at a whiteboard together, throwing ideas or throwing facts and

observations and insights around. So I think especially what we see when we think of strategic consulting, it is the McKinsey's, it's the Baines, it's the Big Ones, it's the folks in suits and the frameworks and they do brilliant research and that's what we see in the field. And then there's also the side of it that is just people asking insightful questions of each other, doing research, actually reading research, doing research, finding links and developing insight, and then seeing what that sparks in terms of ideas. And that's more the part of strategy that I worked in.

And then luckily, I always thought that I was something other than a strategist, because I had seen the McKinsey's and the Baines and the large strategy. I knew what that looked like. And I just feel very lucky that I was graduating out of the field and into consulting at a time when Mark Pollard and some of the other really rebels in the field of strategy were emerging and

that was when I started to see those people in their work and read what they were doing. I was like, oh my gosh, I have a place. Like, that is my person. I'm not going to get his last name. I need to put the pronunciation right on screen. But Rob Estronejo is another. I'll make sure that you have the link for the show notes.

These are folks who are just democratizing strategy and that's this all started with you mentioning my book, but I hope to contribute to the democratization of strategy so that we don't think of it as the smartest person or as the person in the most expensive suit or with the most beautiful slide deck. But we can think of strategy as the way that we tap into our very deeply human insight to develop scaffolding for solutions to our biggest problems, including the big problems that affect human lives, not just dollars and cents. Is that why you came up with the title for this book?

You are a strategist. Was it inspired by your vision of democratizing strategy for everyone? Yeah, when it started, the book was just about no BS objectives and key results. And actually, when the book started, it was about evolutionary objectives and key results. That was the original branding that I used around my approach to objectives and key results, which is a aligned goal setting model that I'm sure we're going to talk about a little more. But I originally branded my approach as evolutionary OKRs. It became, I taught a course that I called the working title was No BS OKRs, and it was just the working title. But the response to it was so strong, I never went back.

So the approach has been branded the No BS Objectives and Key Results or No BS OKRs ever since. We do occasionally work in conservative environments or environments where that No BS is considered too vulgar or not appropriate. So we use that evolutionary OKR branding in those spaces. But for the most part, the clients that I work with are drawn in by the fact that this is just a no BS approach to objectives and key results. It's a straightforward, learnable, focused way to work with a methodology that's often really overcomplicated by people. And so that's where the book started was being a book about No BS OKRs. And at a certain

point, I realized I really think I have two books. I think I have a workbook, which is really about objectives and key results, No BS objectives and key results. And so we carve that out and that's available now. I have a PDF version of the No BS Objectives and Key Results or No BS OKRs workbook, which is really, it gives you the words and meanings and the mindset of working with this type of goal setting. But it's really focused on doing.

It's really focused on exercises and worksheets that help you create your goals. And then the big book, which was what we called it for a long time, was more philosophical. It was more about the why of adopting an approach to strategic planning, not just objectives and key results, but I work in the broader context of strategic planning.

And so it was this other book that was about modernized, simplified, human-centered methods for strategic planning for meaning for humans so that they could actually use the strategy that was being created and the no BS objectives and key results. And there was, I wish I could actually remember, I should look back at my notes and see if I have notes on the day that title happened. I actually don't remember now. I have some working memory issues and executive functioning issues, so my memory can be a bit spotty. I don't remember what it was that prompted the title. I think I was doing an ideation session

with one of my strategic partners, because I work with a bunch of collaborators. And I think I said something like, if I could name the book anything, I would name it, You Are a Strategist, but I can't do that, and here's why. are a strategist, but I can't do that. And here's why. But that title, the minute it came out of my mouth, I knew that was the title. I knew that was the book. I had to rewrite the book to make it that book. It's been a lot of effort to take the book from a book about Bokyars to a book that really delivers on its title.

But I just got the manuscript back for proofreading from proof... I just got the manuscript back from its first proofread and I started reading it this weekend and I think I got to page 10 or 12 and then started to cry because it's the book that I wish I had earlier in my career to help me know that I wasn't alone in my career. And so that for me, I did get the feedback that I should name it, are you a strategist or some other variation? And I've just absolutely from the moment that title was a possibility held firm to it, are you a strategist or some other variation? And I've just absolutely from the moment that title was a possibility held firm to it because it's for every person who's ever been told,

you need to, I don't know how to say this without using a word that I don't usually use, but so let me find an alternative of you need to simplify your work it's too complicated, this is too smart, your work is too smart, you need to make it simpler. Or anyone who's ever heard you're too strategic, I need you to focus on the tactics, I need you to get executional. But it's also for everyone who's ever heard you need to be more strategic and there's never been, I got that feedback early in my career, you need to be more strategic. And there's never been, I got that feedback early in my career, you need to be more strategic. I can tell you there was nowhere to go to get help on what to do about that.

So it is to me, this is definitely a passion project with that particular book because I just want everyone to have the chance to get acquainted with their inner strategist, because their inner strategist is in there no matter what they do for a living. a dishwasher washing dishes and noticing things in the restaurant and putting linky things together in your brain and that strategy, or figuring out a more efficient way to load the washer. That strategy. There's strategy in how you're going to decide to reclaim if your house has gotten a little away from you and it's a little messy. There's strategic play in how to reorganize your home. There's just strategic play in so many and anything, in anything we do. And that the message I hope to bring with this book is strategy isn't just about being smart. Strategy isn't about being the person who can write the perfect

line. It's not about being the person who can stand at the front of the room and sell the most effectively. It's about asking and answering questions that make people say, wow, that's a really good question. I haven't thought of it that way before. Or I haven't had a chance to think about this before, because that's how we change systems that aren't working. And I think the more people who feel empowered to, or the more people who feel like they can ask those

questions instead of wondering what's wrong with me, that this doesn't work for me, the more people who can ask questions about their environment or about our world or about our cultures instead of quietly thinking, I don't know what's wrong with me that this doesn't make sense to me. I don't know what's wrong with me

that I don't understand how to succeed. What's wrong with me that I can't just do the work like everybody else. I don't want people to have to think those things. I want fewer people to have those kinds of statements running through their head and more people to know that there might be nothing, there's nothing wrong with you.

You just might be seeing things through a strategic lens in an environment where, based on your experience and my experience, that's not what everybody always wants. Your book's first page is dedicated to quite a range of individuals, and I want you to read it out loud for the benefit of our listeners. This book is dedicated to introverts, people with ADHD, those on the autism spectrum, trauma survivors, strategy-brained, square-packs, frustrated change-makers, Rubble-lutionaries, a combination of rubbles and revolutionaries, and lastly, Thinker Doers. There are a couple of interesting terms there.

So why did you choose this audience? I'm guessing you must personally resonate with these people. Maybe you were, or still are, one of them. Why did you dedicate this book to this specific group? You nailed it, that is me. This book is a love letter to me earlier in my career, but I know I'm not alone. I know there are so many other people who are having experiences like I did. And if I had written this earlier in my life, if I had somehow had the capacity to write this earlier in my life,

I would have written a book to people who are strategically wired and feel like they don't sit in a world that's really focused on tactics. To people who feel like square pegs in their careers, like we're always a square peg trying to fit into a round pole and just don't sit in. I'm in my late 40s now, but it was in my 30s and then my early 40s when I started to learn about the impact of trauma on the brain and on cognition and the role that trauma can play in changing behavior for people. And I am a trauma survivor. I

had early childhood experiences, adverse early childhood experiences. So my brain is really affected by trauma and trauma history. And then starting to learn about that and then discovering in my mid to late 40s that I have off the charts ADHD. And I haven't been evaluated for autism, but many of my friends are autistic. So I have a lot of affinity for, and have really worked to make sure that my work and my teaching is accessible to people with autism or who have autistic trait.

These are people who are not specifically served by a lot of our mainstream business focus on career. Mainstream businesses focus on career and a lot of what gets written in mainstream business books in mainstream business books either shows or speaks to the benefits of neurodivergence because lots of entrepreneurs are neurodivergent so that independent and creative and innovator streak part of neurodivergence gets played up or gets positive treatment in business press without necessarily being mentioned as neurodivergence. But it is really important to me that people who look at business books

and feel like they're not written for them. I think I have two business books on my entire bookshelf that are geared towards introverted business people. And there are more books than that out there. But so much of business books made me and other readers who have some of the characteristics that I just described feel like we don't fit in or there's something wrong with us. They encourage those voices that are in a lot of our heads and it's important to me to just be very transparent and say my work is for neurotypical people because neurotypical people can benefit from

learning simple practices for communicating clear expectations. And my work is for neurodivergent people and people who are from other cognitive styles or neuro types and other cultural backgrounds. Beyond just standard American business or mainstream business culture to learn practices for developing and communicating strategy and expectations and goals in a way that can be understood by anyone. There was no way I could write that book without just being really honest that it is for neurotypical leaders to develop skills to work better with their neurodivergent employees which also benefits everyone else while we're at it. And it's a tool that people who've struggled in their careers can use to take a step to

put themselves back in the driver's seat of their careers and tap into their intrinsic motivation and reconnect with what they want and need and take the risk of paying a little less attention to what people expect of you or the ways that you've been coached to mask your behaviors or to conform with some sort of professional expectation that doesn't fit you or doesn't fit your cognitive wiring. of wiring and operate from your center and from your truth with tools that help you be well received by others that you work with. Yeah, again, for me, we started this conversation with my activism when I was nine years old and in the third grade and it comes back around to that. That has not changed.

I'm still an absolute chinette activist. And my hope is that this book is a way that people who haven't necessarily been served by other, by the mainstream business press can find that they belong in any room they want to put themselves in, including in the CEO chair in the organization that they want to work in. Because we need people who are wired differently in every role there is. We need people who think differently in every role there is, we need people who think differently in every role there is.

So I just, my hope is that this is one little step toward eliminating some of the barriers that people experience in their careers and especially in the transition into leadership. When it comes to business books, it's difficult to make a lot of money unless you are already a big celebrity with branding, with resources for marketing, widespread marketing, a big professional house behind you, and a strong social media presence. Even then, those thorough authors tend to focus on bold, generic topics that appeal to the mass market, because that's where the scalability is. But with your book, you are doing something different. You are speaking to a specific group of people.

People like you, who you want to help and connect with. who you want to help and connect with. Sure, we might not have the exact statistics on how many people fall into that group, but it's bold. It takes courage to put in the time and money, hire people and contractors, and say, I'm going to speak up, no matter the judgment.

And that's what I see in your book, a special kind of love letter. But one that's not just personal, it's also rational. You've got tools, analysis, and a lot of business concepts bathed into it. For someone who is familiar with business school models and buzzwords, I can see you've really balanced speaking to a specific audience with delivering real business and economic value. Yeah, it's one way that I think about my work is the people, the groups of people that we've talked about

who are less served in mainstream business press, folks like me, I wasn't born with the same puristics for, and I certainly didn't see growing up, how to be an adult in a corporate setting. There weren't corporate settings in the town I grew up in and my parents were public employees. So when I became a grownup and started working in corporate environments, it was like plunking me down on another planet. And I had to build my own heuristics and mental shortcuts

and figure out how to make my own step-by-steps for things that other people took for granted. And that's what the work I do now is, and that's what these books are, is they're just ways to fill in those heuristics gaps that everyone has. It's not just neurotypical people or people who are cognitively wired differently

or from different cultural backgrounds. We all have gaps in our heuristics and so this is an effort to give people an option for a coherent set of agreed heuristics around simple strategic planning and goal setting. Because then not only does it fill in the gaps for some of us who weren't born with these skills, naturally, it also gives us a shared language that we can use when we work with other people and that we can align on shared words and meanings, which really I think is one of the most undervalued simple things that organizations can do to improve performance is just give words meaning and consistently use those meanings agree on what our important words mean

because organizations lose tremendous amounts of cognitive horsepower and wasted human effort just because they're using different, people are using the same word and they mean different things. It's remarkable. Yeah, so it is. It's just the books are as passionate as I am, they are technical business books. Like they're about how to set goals, how to organize to improve achievement of goal, and ultimately how to improve your organizational and career performance. I'm a numbers girl. I want to see those numbers go up at the end of the day. And if the numbers aren't going up, I wanna have data to know why they're not.

And so they are passionate books that have a real mission and purpose behind them. And they're also, to your point, analytical tools that can be applied to help people work together better, communicate better with each other, get aligned with each other with less drama and less incoherence, and work together to achieve bigger and better and bolder empirically measurable outcomes. And it's remarkable.

I've got two books now and three trainings and I train coaches in this stuff and it's really not that complicated. We have a couple words that we just agree on definitions of. We have a couple formulas that we can apply. So an objective has a basic formula or makeup and a key result has a basic formula or makeup and we can say what is and isn't a key result. And then there are a few key questions that people learn to ask each other. So that instead of coming into strategic planning with all that answers, we come

into the strategic planning process with questions that we can ask each other and genuine curiosity about our data and our performance ask each other and genuine curiosity about our data and our performance and each other's facts and observations and insights. And those are the tools that these books are bringing to people and I'm just really I'm really hopeful and optimistic and excited to see people who might not have felt seen in other strategic planning circles or who might not know that they're strategists right now or that their struggles are because they're strategically wired. I'm just so excited to see people discover these tools and then hear what they do with

them. That's the part I can't wait for. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.