Chief Change Officer - #408 Jodi Silverman: When the Kids Grow Up, But You’re Just Getting Started — Part Two

Episode Date: June 6, 2025

Jodi Silverman never expected reinvention to arrive between carpools and client meetings. But once her kids left and the hustle paused, she realized success had masked something deeper: restlessness.��In Part 2, Jodi shares the emotional (and practical) shift from parenting full-time to rediscovering your own interests. She walks us through her signature DARE Method and dishes out real talk on marriage, identity, and why your kids aren’t your best friends (even if you really, really like them).This isn’t just an episode about empty nests. It’s about refilling your own life—on your own terms.Key Highlights of Our Interview:“You’re always their mom—but not always their problem-solver.”Letting go means shifting from fixer to coach, giving your adult kids space—and yourself permission to grow.Best Friend? Nope. Mom Forever.“They have friends. What they need is a parent who actually knows when to walk away.”Jodi explains why clinging to closeness can backfire—and how healthy detachment brings deeper connection.The Real Empty Nest Challenges“It’s not just missing them. It’s not knowing who you are without them.”It’s not about quiet halls—it’s about a loud identity crisis. Jodi breaks down the emotional vacuum no one warns you about.The DARE Method“Decide. Awaken. Reimagine. Experience.”Jodi’s four-step formula to reclaim your identity—starting with a brain dump, not a five-year plan.Rediscovering You“What did you used to like—before you were someone’s plus one?”She urges listeners to list lost joys, try without judgment, and welcome failure as a doorway to rediscovery.Day Swaps, Not Date Nights“Plan a day around what lights them up. You’ll learn more than any heart-to-heart.”From partners to adult children, this method rebuilds connection through shared experiences and mutual curiosity._______________________Connect with us:Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Jodi Silverman  --Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.EdTech Leadership Awards 2025 Finalist.18 Million+ All-Time Downloads.80+ Countries Reached Daily.Global Top 1.5% Podcast.Top 10 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>170,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.<<<

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Jodie Silverman, founder of the Moms Who Dare community, and someone who knows what it's like to face a totally quiet house and wonder what comes next. She built a print business, raised a family, and then realized it was time to find something that lead her up again.

In this two-part series, we talk about letting go of all roles, parenting when you are no longer the fixer, and why your next chapter doesn't have to look like your last one. Jodie's story is honest, warm, and refreshingly real. Let's get into it. So far, among the women you've connected with, what are some of the common challenges they face? And with those challenges in mind, what kinds of solutions have you seen? Either from the group or ones you've helped them discover? Yeah, the top issues that show up every time women join the Facebook group, they have to answer that question actually. Vince, they have to answer, what's your biggest challenge right now? And what are you looking to gain by being part of this community?

The biggest ones are the feeling disconnected from their now adult, I do with the quotes, adult children, because honestly, they're not adults at 18. They're just not, they're considerably well adults, but they're not feeling disconnected. And within the disconnection is wanting to be present in their life without being that helicopter parent, the lack of feeling like they have a purpose. copter parent, the lack of feeling like they have a purpose, they've lost their main purpose every day in a life. And finding new friendships in this it's a midlife chapter and beyond, because this is the only time in a parent's life, a mom,

and I'll talk about moms, because it's really the moms, the mom's life where her children are not the conduits to her meeting other mom friends. Meaning there's no more clay practice, no more basketball, there's no more soccer moms, and that's where we tend to meet our mom friends. So it's the learning how to connect and be an parent to adult children without hovering, finding and discovering their purpose. What do they even want to do, need to do, like to do, because they put that on the

back burner, and then connection, friendship, finding that community, the friendships, those are the three. And what's great about all three of those. So the parenting one, I literally, I actually have a specific technique. Literally, I actually have a specific technique. And as far as parenting the adult children, let me back up. One thing that can cover all three, that can help a mom navigate all three,

the number one strategy is to shift your focus from them where it has been for all these years, as a mom, as a full time mom, back to you. Back to you. So permission to say, okay, I get to focus on me. I get to put myself at the top of the list now and start to discover or rediscover or reconnect to those lost passions, those lost dreams. So shifting the focus onto you will help you not be, fill your time so you're not worried constantly thinking about where are they, what are they doing? I'm gonna text them.

The cell phone, which I'm holding up right now, this is a great tool and a dangerous tool. Constantly connect to, so if you have the ability to contact your child 24 seven, that's not what this is for. So the first thing to do is to recognize that you get to put yourself first and you must put yourself first.

It will help you with your relationship with your now adult child because you are now focused on yourself, giving yourself them a little distance. When you're focused on a new hobby, a new business venture, you can't be texting 24-7 to your children. And you don't want to do and you become more interesting to your adult children. You have more conversation with them. And yet with that being said, the number one parity shift we all must make and it really does. You brought this earlier,

Vince, about being 10 this earlier, Vince, about being 10, 11, 12, 13 years old. The sooner that we can do this, we should be doing this throughout all of our parenting. And I was not good at this until I discovered it is going from the fixer to the coach with our children. ["The Fiction of the Child"] This process isn't easy. Like you said, it's not like flipping a switch.

It's more like turning a deamer. The change happens gradually. So it helps to prepare for it step by step, stage by stage. Maybe that means adjusting small habits every day or every month. That way, when the day actually comes, when they really leave for college or move out, you're more ready for it. I actually have a method for it.

We call it the DERA method. We call it the DERA method and it's deciding. It's a we call it the dare method. We call it the dare method and it's Deciding and it's a simple. It's a decision a decision that You understand I'm ready to focus on myself a decision that okay my kids. I'm doing what I did a great job They're out there doing what they do. And by the way, Vince, you are never not a mom. You're just Your role as their mom is shifting and changing. But you are always their mom. My 29 and 26 year old still call me for advice. They only know what they know in the moment. So this whole thought process of I'm no

longer a mom, I'm not needed. No, you are always a mom. And you are needed always just in a different capacity and in different ways. So decide that you're ready now to accept this and focus on yourself. That's the D. The A is awaken. Once you make a decision, when I made a decision and answering that question, am I fulfilled? Is this what I want to be doing? When I said no, that was a decision.

That was a decision. And it awakened something within me. So awaken to what's possible. Awaken your heart again. Awaken your mind again. Awaken that spirit inside of you that always likes to try something new. And then you get to go to the R, which is to reimagine. Reimagine what could my life look and feel like? Reimagine about the things that you used to like to do. Go back and reconnect to, reconnect to reimagine. And then the E is the daring. That's the experiencing. Allow yourself to experience these new things.

Create a list. Within the D-A, the daring method, you're going things create a list Like within the DA with the dare method You're gonna create a list of the things you used to like doing What are the things that look like fun to do and then you're gonna just slowly dare to experience these new things Maybe some are not so new. They just haven't done them in 10 15 years You have to take yourself through them, but you have to feel the loss. Vince, you always have to feel your emotions. We cannot just move through emotions and ignore them because they will come up.

It's a resilience thing. It's how quickly can you understand the emotion you're feeling, what you're having, why you're having it. And then once you can understand why you're feeling the way you're feeling, you and then once you can understand why you're feeling the way you're feeling, you can then say, okay, I'm ready to decide on what my next step will be. How can I move forward or move through it?

The empty nest experience isn't just something moms go through, dads feel it too. So I'm curious, how did your husband handle it? What was his reaction like? How did he respond to the shift at home? So I know for him, Sam has a unique ability, Vince, to compartmentalize events and things. His mother, my mother-in-law was very pragmatic.

Sam was a very pragmatic person. With that said, he was missing the kids. When we dropped Ellie, our oldest, we knew, I knew the minute we dropped Ellie off of college that she would only be visiting home moving forward. She would never be living permanently in our house again. She would come home for the holidays, but I knew that there was no way Ellie was gonna move back home. And I remember when she graduated college, so Sam missed her, Sam missed her. Ellie was very big into basketball,

and that was a very bonding thing for Sam and Ellie, basketball, so he was gonna miss her. And then when Daniel left, he was, he missed both kids. He missed both of them. And yet my husband's personal feeling was, now I get to hang out with you again, Jodie. We get to do things we like to do, just the two of us.

And when we're with our kids, we can have fun again. But he was really excited to move through that with us. Now I know that there are dads, I've spoken to move through that with us. Now, I know that there are dads, I've spoken to dads, that it hits really hard. And yet I'm going to make a very big generalization. Most of the fathers I know, although they miss their kids, it doesn't hit them as, what's the word I'm looking for is deeply or not deeply. That's not the right word as emotionally.

And maybe it's because most men don't give up their careers. I guess, but I don't know, me dads handle it differently. They miss their children yet. They seem to be handling it better. They don't have that loss of purpose that a mom has because now things are changing in the future generations. You're seeing more dads, you're seeing more families because of the financial issues in the world with daycare. More families sit down and say, okay, who makes more sense to stay home, the mom or the dad? and say, okay, who makes more sense to stay home, the mom or the dad? Which parent should stay home? So there are more stay at home dads, work from home dads, and more fathers since the pandemic

are working remotely from home, so are taking a much more active role in the day-to-day activity of the children. So I'm curious to see as generations go on, my feeling for dads are that they miss their children and yet they don't have that feeling of disconnectness that moms have and they don't have the same loss of purpose. They feel sad but they're not into the level of a mom. That's just been my experience. I think in general, just speaking broadly, men tend to be less outwardly sentimental. Part of that comes from how society has shaped us. Across cultures, men are expected to be the strong ones, the calm ones. I still remember being told as a kid, boys shouldn't cry.

Well, it was okay for girls, which doesn't make any sense. We are all human. We have sentiments. We have feelings. So I think for many fathers, even if they feel the sadness intrinsically, deeply, they may not show it.

Maybe they shed tears in private, but that conditioning runs deep and it definitely shapes how they process things like the empty nest stage. I think it's valid, I think it's valid. Yes, we are making some generalizations here, and yet it is valid because society still raises boys to not feel their emotions the way girls feel them. And it's wrong.

It's wrong because I do believe what makes us strong, what makes us resilient is our ability to feel and sit with our difficult emotions. That's what makes everybody. I don't care who you are, what gender you are, how old you are, our ability to feel and sit and understand our emotions is what will eventually create a much more resilient world. So quick side story. I was chatting with another guest recently. He's a father, and both his kids had left home.

We were not even talking about family at first, more about leadership and career stuff. But somehow this topic came up. And what he shared was interesting. He said, after the kids left, he and his wife decided not to just go back to us as a couple. But instead, they each returned to their individual selves. They gave each other space, meaning living under the same roof, but doing the things they loved independently. He said, over the past 20-something years, a lot of that got put aside for parenting. Now they are picking it back up again. And for them, it works. Have you seen that happen in your own experience, either in your family or with others in your community?

And would you say that's a good thing? So what I have found is that some women share that when the children are removed from the equation, they're left looking at each other, who are we? Who are we as a couple? Who are you? Why did you get... Could be because the children have been everything in their world. And there is a way, it doesn't...

I think some people get scared that their marriage might fall apart when the kids leave. It doesn't have to. It doesn't have to. What I do agree with what that guest said is I strongly believe that you need common interests together, enjoy to do things together, and you also need your own interests and your own friends too. My husband Sam and I have that. We love being together. We like just hanging out together. We go out together. We have couple friends. We go out as couples. And yet he has his golf. I have my tennis. He has lots of community through golf. I have my mom's who dare. I clean events for just my mom's. It's very important to have a sense of togetherness and a sense of self

Hmm. Yeah, very important to have both. I believe that to to have a successful strong Relationship partnership there has to be both of that Hmm combined. I will share can I give one tip on this one? Combined I will share can I give one tip on this one double ports if you are a couple that's feeling disconnected with each other or from each other My friend and a fellow coach who is a brilliant at this she came up with a great tip and I love it It's my favorite one is called a day swap And you can do it with your adult children as well, Vince, to feel more connected. So one person in the relationship plans their ideal day.

What is our favorite thing to do? You are invited to come along on their perfect day. And then you swap and you do the other person. What that allows you to do is it reminds you of what this other person who you love so much, what lights them up. Watching them enjoy and connects you back to what it is they really enjoy doing and it's a shared experience.

So a day swap with your adult children would be if they don't live at home anymore, you go visit them at college or you visit them wherever they live. You'll plan a day and take me around to all your favorite spots. You will feel we connected to them. So now when you talk on the phone and they talk about, I'm standing in line getting my latte, mom, you know exactly where they are. Nights connection and it allows you to see that other person view a view through their eyes of what really lights them up. It's good. But yes, I believe we need both of that. I really like what you said. Being together, but still being yourself, you can have different

interests. Maybe you love ice cream and he doesn't like dessert. That's fine. And that day's world idea is great. You get to discover each other, what they like, what's changed. Even something simple like gift giving becomes more thoughtful because we all change over time. If we do notice that in each other, that's when we start to feel disconnected. Yeah, and it lets you...

Day Swap allows each party in the Day Swap to feel seen, heard, understood, appreciated. And isn't that what we all really want? All we want to be seen and heard, understood, appreciated. And isn't that what we all really want? We want to be seen and heard, and it can't help but bring you closer because you abandon anything that you feel or think and you're just there to be with this person and witness what they what it is they truly enjoy doing. So it's a wonderful dare to do. Today, you've shared a lot of great insights from the importance of togetherness and self to ideas like the day's walk and the deeper

approach to identity change. I really like that one, slowly refocusing on yourself over time so it doesn't feel like a sudden loss when your kids leave home. You also reminded us that being a mom never ends. The role evolves from caretaker to advisor, but the connection remains. And as you said, we don't need to be the best friends. We guide, we let go, and we keep building a life of our own. So if there's a parent listening right now, maybe still feeling down, stuck, or overwhelmed by the emptiness, what would you say to them?

What's one thing they can do to start moving forward again? If somebody is really bad, like really down and out, and I know the words depression, anxiety are thrown around very loosely in our world today, but if you are struggling to get up every day out of it, find help. Go find professional help, always, because there are some people that in effect so deeply that they need help. I'll just say that out loud. The first thing I would tell anybody to do is make a decision and understand that you are always their mom and that you are going to shift from the fixer of all things to being

there as I love the coacher advisor. I love the word advisor. That you are ready to let them go They will call you reach out when they need help and when they do you're an advisor You're gonna help them. You're not gonna fix this and then for yourself Start with a list Start with a list write a list of everything that what are things I used to like doing before I was even like anybody's girlfriend, wife, husband, boyfriend, whatever it is, partner. What are the things you used to like doing without judgment, no judgment, just like it's

kind of brain dump. What did I used to like to do? Ride my bike. I used to like riding a bike. I used to like hiking. I used to like cooking. Whatever it is, write a list. What are the things that other people doing that when you see them doing, you's like cooking, whatever it is, write a list. What are things that other people doing

that when you see them doing you're like, wow, that looks really fun. That looks cool. I think I could do that. And it can be a hobby, it can be a career. And then once you make your list without judgment, read through the list and tap into how you feel and start to dare to experience the things on your list. And here's what I'm going to say, Vince, because a lot of people don't, they get stuck in this part. This is the taking action, the daring part. They don't because what if they fail? What if they don't like it?

That's great. If you don't like doing it, you could take it off your list. I tried, I don't like that anymore. You might discover something else. You make room. If you try, say you register for a class and you just fail miserably at learning a new language, you wanted to learn how to speak Mandarin,

you totally fail, it's okay, it's okay. What did you learn from that? Move on to the next thing. So make a decision, make a list, and just start small steps. Daring doesn't have to be a whole career change. It can be. It can be just little steps.

And if you have a side hustle or a hobby, maybe really look at that and ask yourself, how would this feel if I now put more time into my hobby? Could I make it into a business too? How does that feel when I say that? So make a list, little baby steps, and find somebody to step out with you if you want. And that's the end for our two-part series on Jodie Silverman. Jodie's journey is a reminder that letting go of one identity isn't the end. It's an opening.

Whether you are a parent, partner, or just someone trying to figure out what's next. Her DARE method is a good place to start. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget to subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.