Chief Change Officer - Adversity Warrior Sihame El Kaouakibi: From Rock Bottom to Peak Performance
Episode Date: August 12, 2024If you were the host of this show, how would you define the following guest? Our first guest from Belgium: Sihame El Kaouakibi. She’s a Moroccan immigrant, a burnout and bankruptcy survivor, a parli...amentarian, a champion of diversity and inclusion, the creator of Women Leaders OS, and a women’s leadership coach. She is all of these and more. But beyond these identities, what truly captivates me are the experiences that have shaped these transformations. Some people thrive in politics, others in stability. Sihame thrives in adversity. She describes herself as more than resilient—she’s anti-fragile. I see Sihame as someone who has learned, over time, to turn adversity into an advantage. It’s not an inborn talent; it’s something nurtured and developed. How? Tune in and find out now. Episode Breakdown: 02:15—Burnt Out, Bankrupt, and Back in Business “I went from being burnt out, confused, overwhelmed, and even bankrupt to now being in the best shape of my life—physically, mentally, and professionally.” 5:56—Validation Detox: Kicking the Need for External Approval “Without success, without my work, without external validation and recognition, I felt like nothing. I felt nobody.” 11:42—Politics 101: When Ego Meets Reality “I made an ego-driven decision, and it was a messiah complex, believing I had everything—like potential and talents to drive change.” “I wasn’t aligned with my values and beliefs anymore. So my lesson is if you feel you have to give up on your principles, quit.” 21:59—Thriving vs. Surviving: Why “You’re Not Stuck, You’re Just in the Wrong Pot” Applies to Your Career “The most liberating decision can be to move on and find your tribe, find your environment where you can thrive.” “Sometimes it’s better to accept the rejection than feeling stuck. Rejection can be redirection, and it’s sometimes better to just leave.” 25:41—Operating System for Women Leaders: How to Handle Life’s Curveballs Without Crashing “My mission is to help 1 million women turn life challenges into life changes for the better. These women want to break through in their careers, but they want to do it without the burnouts.” “Women still lack internal beliefs and also support systems. So it starts really with women deciding that they are worthy and willing to change.” 43:46—Success Isn’t Always Instagram-Pretty: The Ugly Side of the Hustle “There’s so much about glamorized success, but there is always another side. People you envy might be in deep pain, even if they are millionaires or have social status.” Connect with Us: Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Sihame El Kaouakibi Chief Change Officer: Make Change Ambitiously. A Modernist Community for Growth Progressives World's Number One Career Podcast Top 1: US, CA, MX, IE, HU, AT, CH, FI Top 10: GB, FR, SE, DE, TR, IT, ES Top 10: IN, JP, SG, AU 1.3 Million+ Streams 50+ Countries
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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. We are a modernist humility for progressive minds around the world. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host.
How do I even begin to introduce our first guest from Belgium, who has Moroccan roots.
Her name is Siham El-Kawakibi.
She is a Moroccan immigrant, a burnout and bankruptcy survivor,
a parliamentarian, a champion of diversity and inclusion.
She's also the creator of Women Leaders OS and a women's leadership coach.
She is all of these and more.
Beyond these identities, what truly impresses me are the experiences that have shaped these transformations.
Some people thrive in politics, others in stability.
Siham thrives in adversity.
She describes herself as more than resilient. She is anti-fragile.
I see her as someone who has learned over time to turn adversity into an advantage.
It's not an inborn talent. Rather, it's something nurtured and developed.
How? Let's find out.
Hello, hello. Yes, I'm here.
Thank you.
Seaham has over 20 years of experience across both the private and public sectors, along with a wealth of personal experiences.
That's so much we can talk about today.
Before that, could you give us an overview of your journey through the key milestones of your life and career?
Then we'll explore different elements in more detail.
All right.
What an opening.
That's quite a story, right?
So, for the people listening, my name is Sihem.
I was born in 86 to Moroccan immigrants in Belgium.
I was raised there, studied there, worked there.
In the past 20 years,
I was an entrepreneur, actually five-time founder, former member of parliament. And yeah, I actually
have to just be very honest. As a young woman of color, I did face a lot of adversity. And my
milestone started there, I think, because I found a way through education, hard work, and luck to
transform adversity into a sort of resilience.
My experience really sparked for me a super deep desire to turn these societal hurdles
into driving force for change.
So my milestone is there the nonprofit work.
I founded, designed, implemented award-winning empowerment programs, education programs for
youth and women.
But simultaneously, I did enter the entrepreneurial world.
Co-founded several firms, especially focused on next-gen inclusion and diversity.
That was like the first 15 years.
And then five years ago, I entered politics as a member of parliament.
And that changed really everything but for the worse.
Where entrepreneurship is a positive sum game, I can assure you politics is a zero-sum game.
It became this toxic work environment.
And yeah, a couple of years ago, three, four years ago, I went through a very difficult burnout.
Period of burnout, diagnosed PTSD.
So it forced me to slow down.
During slowing down, what is a privilege today that you can slow down, I healed, started pivoting.
And actually I really went from being burnt out, confused, overwhelmed, even bankrupt, to now being back in the best shape of my life.
Physically, mentally, I'm resilient, but actually more than resilient.
I love to say I'm anti-fragile.
I really find strength in adversity and I'm in a career that I'm more proud of than resilient. I love to say I'm anti-fragile. I really find strength in adversity and I'm in a career
that I'm more proud of than ever.
So I can probably say that today
I'm a skin in the game consultant.
Impact and innovation is my thing
at the intersection of people,
prosperity, planet.
And actually it's about converting SDGs
into tangible results.
And besides consulting,
I love coaching high-performing women because
we can relate. And I think that's also the way we met, Vince.
Yes, we met through common friends and explored common topics, which is one of the reasons why
I really wanted to interview you. You have so much knowledge and real experience to share.
As I mentioned in the show notes,
I don't sell the success stories of my guests.
They are obviously successful in their own way
and in their own space.
But what makes this podcast special is the real stories, the lived experiences,
which sometimes aren't very pleasant. You mentioned mental health, which is undoubtedly
a hot topic in today's world. Honestly, in a world as complex and challenging as ours,
who can truly say they are perfectly mentally healthy?
We all have to deal with different kinds of stress and burnout.
So let's stop here.
Let's talk about mental health.
If I understood you correctly,
is this something that stems
from your years in politics?
Or does it go further back?
Maybe to your childhood, adolescence,
or work life in the private sector?
Please share more about the challenges you faced.
Yeah, I love the question again, because like you said, mental health is something a lot of people deal with today.
It's not only about measuring mental health and having more assessments and having more people going to therapy or talking about it. It's really an issue that in these difficult times where everything is a little
bit confusing, where we have a lack of leadership as well, a lack of sense of belonging sometimes,
that the things that are happening in the world also just weigh on people. And for me, politics
was maybe ignited something that was, of course, leads to something from a young age.
And of course, as a child.
OK, but it's the last four years that have been transformational.
No, like I said, I was always on top of my game going like a high speed train.
I had this very short and long term goals.
I enterprise accomplishment.
And then when life takes an unexpected turn for me in just one day, I went from doing very well to hitting rock bottom.
And that confusion, stress, anxiety, but also the rejection that came with it had such a huge impact on my mental health, life and career.
That, of course, when you slow down and dig deeper and do the work, yeah, of course, it's connected with who is Siham, who was Siham when she was like this eight-year-old child. And then in her teenage years, what led Siham to this, yeah, to this time of confusion.
So for me, for example, when everything happened to me a couple of years ago, like really the big plaque, the doors slammed, shut in my face.
I really tried to solve the situation with coping mechanisms.
I knew, but it made things worse.
So this really led to life-changing questions. tried to solve the situation with the coping mechanisms, I knew that it made things worse. So
this really led to life-changing questions. It also led to zero self-belief and confidence.
And you mentioned success. For me, I personalized myself with success. But when you personalize
yourself with your success, you do the same with your failures. Without success, without my work,
without external validation and recognition, I felt like nothing.
I felt a nobody.
And this comes from someone whose work was empowering people until they could say, I
am somebody.
So this was really so painful.
The rejection was, I couldn't get a grasp on my life again.
So I really had to put in a lot of work after I realized that rock bottom can become fertile grounds.
And it became fertile grounds for me.
But I couldn't do this by myself.
It was my support system.
It was coaching.
It was therapy.
It was podcasts, books, going back to study, all these things, all these programs.
I decided to use this rock bottom as a reset button.
And yeah, I could just rebuild from the ground up.
What are your values?
All things led me far away from my core beliefs and values.
So I could align back with my real values.
I could rewrite my purpose, my ikigai.
I could align them with what I was doing with my action and I could redefine success, health.
So even though this, actually this period of struggling with my mental health changed
my perspective on what it means to have a successful career and to be at our best in
our health, at work, in our careers, in our relationships.
And that personal journey became just this transformation
to let go of a lot of things, to let go of control,
to let go of my ego, the ego of my past success, I call it.
Do you really want to go back to the person you were,
the situation you were in?
No.
Embrace the privilege that maybe the fact that you can slow down
can also has led me to realizing that I am somebody
without the accolades and achievements.
So actually my mental health today is better than before.
But before I didn't feel it because I was so busy in my head.
I wasn't in my body.
So today it's really being aligned with your mind, body and soul.
It's true.
And I had to experience it in a very hard way.
But this healing journey is, it was an an opportunity is an opportunity to learn to grow
to pivot it's a journey to reno purpose and direction and today you just understand that
you need to you need to build your mental health and the way you approach life and projects or
work whatever relationships in a more sustainable way and of course it took me a
lot of time it took me three years and so that's why I said besides consulting I love coaching
because I don't think it has to take three years and you can do this alone so I'm so privileged
that during my mental health journey like going from rock bottom to who I am today and how I approach life today
is, of course, because I had an abundance of love and warmth and grateful to have the health,
the physical health as well, and to be able to cope with this very dark period to where I am today, full of light. So far, I've had two guests in season one,
both women who are involved in politics.
One is a parliamentarian in Singapore,
and the other one was a lawyer in Paris
before moving to Senegal to get involved in politics and government.
Now, she's deeply involved in public administration.
In their respective capacities, they've made great impacts in their communities.
I'd like to share a bit from their experiences.
For example, the one in Singapore, my classmate from Chicago MBA,
mentioned that the election period and its aftermath were the darkest times in her life. She didn't explicitly mention mental health, but she was attacked
on social media for her age and so-called inexperience, being the youngest elected
parliamentarian at that time. I bring this up because you mentioned that politics is a negative sum game. While I can
imagine the satisfaction of being in a position of influence and making an impact on the communities
you care about, I can also see how political games could be a major source of mental health challenges.
Can you share more about the challenges you faced during that time?
And of course, without naming names, just the lessons you learned or specific incidents that led to struggles, perhaps even depression.
I think that would be helpful.
Politics is a difficult chapter in my life,
so I'll take time to think about the lines that I want to share.
And I think I have to start from the beginning
and then go towards the lessons learned.
So if I start with the beginning, back then I was 28,
working at full speed as an entrepreneur.
Our organizations were making a huge impact on youth and people through empowerment, impact-driven consultancy.
And actually, I never intended to run for elections, really.
Several party leaders asked me to join their party and run.
I always said no was my default answer because we have impact and freedom to speak up without political affiliation so we
could advocate for change for equality and justice really but like the rest of europe and the west
belgium saw the rise of extreme parties for right conservatism we had this racism sexism
name it you name it and social media and I was a target for that,
social media became a hotbed for hate speech,
which of course hurts as a community builder and leader
that what we were doing, bringing people together,
creating sense of belonging, uniting people
through projects, tangible achievements,
youth centers, et cetera.
So when I saw that these elections in 2019,
this was end of 2018, beginning 2019,
these elections would be pivotal for the country.
So that's where when one of the,
some people came to me from a certain party,
that's the first time, it was the timing as well.
I was emotional because everything was happening.
I could see it in the news.
I was like, well, what is this?
All these campaigns, anti-women, anti-migrants, etc.
So I decided to run in 24 hours.
I consulted, of course, people close to me.
But like with everything, these people that knew me as a high-performing woman,
always stubborn, just doing my thing, ego-driven decisions,
they just, they couldn't hold me back.
I know they wanted to do, but they couldn't. They just knew that I wasn't, they weren't able to hold
me back. And that was like part of my personality and also part of being stubborn in your goals and
in your visions to make a change. I decided to run, got elected, but it was from day one of campaigning very challenging we had this conservatism
nationalism far-right they had almost 50 percent representation so they imagine being in parliament
more than 50 percent is really the opposite of what you stand for and who you are and you know
what my looks are and etc so it's created a tough work environment.
People forget that it's a work environment.
You go to your work as a member of parliament.
Plus, we faced COVID and Black Lives Matter during my first year,
making me work from zero to 200% politics.
And that's where I really regret the decision
because I went into politics at a bad time.
I had several big projects and teams running.
So when I started my mandate,
I invested all my time in politics and people,
leaving my teams and projects behind.
And of course, there were other managers
and board members, et cetera.
You were the face, so you're accountable.
And this really gave my political opponents the best shot to spin and turn disinformation,
hurting my reputation, and I almost lost everything.
My health even led to, like I said, bankruptcy.
And it's just because I was quite naive, because choosing one party made other parties that supported,
for example, our organization, organizations furious.
They felt that's something typical of politics.
They always feel that you owe them, right?
And because of my choice, it felt for them like betrayal.
So my initial motivation to speak up in these hard times, pivotal times for the country,
as a community builder with 15 years of experience,
let's go into politics and have this system changing.
The initial motivation was it may be legit,
but the consequences,
I didn't think about the consequences enough.
And it was a very hard way to experience this harsh truth.
And it became now a recent battle on my 35th birthday.
But the good thing, I lost a big part of
my ego and my relationships and health are stronger than ever because the key lessons really this is
because that was a big part of your question so sorry that I'm just answering now if I think about
it I wasn't aligned with my values and beliefs anymore so my lesson is if you feel you have to
give up on your principles quit it. Certainly in politics, quit.
Don't fight.
And it's like, oh, see, that's not really courageous.
It's because the status quo is hard to change.
And especially if you speak up for the underrepresented, if something happens to you, they can't speak
up for you.
You lose anyway.
And especially when you started politics from a kind of a messiah complex, where you go
into politics because you want to change things because you believe you can change and thinking that you can change deep-rooted inequalities like
just by yourself not true it's not possible so first of all i actually had to convert my circles
of trust and credibility communities to the bigger purpose and then and you need to build
strong foundations your mandate actually isn't associated just with you,
but stands for bigger projects.
That's the only way that you don't isolate,
but that you can start to collaborate.
And another key lesson, don't make ego-driven decisions.
Sometimes you have to stay low, work harder,
because when you rise too fast,
the powers in place will focus on you,
bring you down quickly.
And then the question is left,
like what legacy is then left? What change did you bring? Was it for the better or for the
worse? And then the biggest lesson, of course, from a governance point of view, if you have
companies or mandates, just quit before entering politics to avoid them being used against you.
And the most beautiful lesson, I think, you are elected by the people. So even though they can maybe damage your reputation with misinformation and political campaigns, adversity, they cannot take your seat.
It's the people chose you.
Don't ever forget that and try to show up, be courageous.
But if the environment is too toxic. Is it worth it? If you're quite isolated, especially as people who stand for change, sometimes it's not worth it.
You still need to prioritize yourself, self-care.
And certainly if you have a family you're accountable for, you need to put yourself in them first.
Because otherwise you cannot fight for the people.
That's just the thing.
And sometimes I think it's about timing.
For me, it wasn't the right timing.
I made an ego-driven decision and it was a messiah complex.
And of course, belief.
I had everything like potential and talents to do something, to drive change.
Otherwise, there was no focus on keeping them from political opponents.
So that I know.
But it was too soon, too early too early without a foundation a community standing next
to me beside me standing for this bigger project and that's okay it's a hard lesson learned and
my motivation was legit and yeah all the rest is trying to keep driving change as an advocate for
change as an entrepreneur as an impact consultant that's actually what I do better.
So that's my position now.
Politics, whether in government or the office, is something that some people are really good at navigating.
Some people thrive in it and even seek out more of it. It sounds like you saw parliament
as a stage to make a positive impact on the communities you care about. Your intentions
were noble, but the environment made things worse. Not only were you unable to create the impact you wanted,
but you also faced various attacks and toxic behavior.
The same goes for office environments.
Many corporate workers might be incredibly smart and capable,
but they struggle to climb the corporate ladder
because they either don't play politics,
don't play it well,
or aren't willing to play it at all.
I've been in the corporate world,
and I've seen and experienced my share of political
maneuvering.
I've had my own struggles with mental health due to corporate politics.
That's part of why I decided to become an entrepreneur, a free agent, rather than being
bound or controlled by that environment.
For many people, whether they are considering a job change, a career shift, or even trying
to change the world as an entrepreneur, one key takeaway is to choose your environment
and culture carefully.
In certain cultures and environments, you can thrive and excel.
In others, you might struggle. It doesn't mean you are not smart or that your intentions are not good enough.
Often, it's the environment and the culture that holds you back,
preventing you from achieving what you want to achieve.
That's been my experience.
Beautiful. Yeah, I can relate.
I can relate. The environment is everything.
If you feel you're surviving instead of striving,
you need to quit, you need to risk.
Because a lot of women that I guide now,
some of them really start,
because they're really these beautiful, amazing women,
high positions, and they're still
sometimes like in this environment
with these political games, toxic leadership
and they stay, I'm like
what's the plan?
and the strange thing is that they cling
they're just holding this
situation, holding
it's holding them back, they're just stuck
and sometimes
it's better to accept the rejection than feeling stuck, I think.
So if the environment, the toxic environment feels like a rejection, maybe it's better.
Rejection can be redirection.
And it's sometimes better to just leave.
And I think the most liberating decision can be to move on.
And like you said, you need to find your tribe.
You need to find your environment so you can
try but it's confronting right being rejected why is someone toxic it's like for example for women
of course more and more women go into leadership positions they're needed okay and feminine
leadership is actually based on empathy emotional intelligence also inclusivity and i know that and i was one of them that it's no longer true that women need to
like mimic masculine or male leaders no i think we should embrace our strength leads with our
authentic selves and i think we can relate i don't know if you experienced but i've experienced so
many times called being irritated or too emotional after just being me in stating my
points in a meeting with a lot of passion but it does affect you as a woman as a person as a human
you lose your genuine vulnerable self because of it and so i think when the moment you have to
choose and you have to be someone that you're not,
yeah, you lose your authenticity.
And that's so important in a leading position that you actually not only
in a leading position for everyone to be able to lean into your authenticity.
And that's not possible in a toxic work environment.
I know you have your own consulting and coaching practice.
You've developed what you call the Women Leaders OS, which stands for Operating System.
Can you tell us more about how this approach works?
I know it is not a digital system like iOS, the Apple system, but I'm curious to learn more about how this
operating system you've designed benefits your target audience, women leaders.
Yeah, women leaders, how performing women. The reason I created Women Leaders OS was
it was exactly what I needed at many points in my life. Like I already shared, going from doing very well to hitting rock bottom,
it just leads you to a healing journey that guides you back to your true self.
And you just realize that the path I realized that I was on was nothing like what I used to love.
It was actually far from what I believed in.
And I just cared too much about achieving things and what other thought of me
and leading you as a high-performing woman juggling multiple responsibilities
well you do feel overwhelmed and you start questioning your path and when I was doing this
I started several programs investing my time in studies etc et cetera, therapy, coaching. And I realized I was alone, of course.
Many women were experiencing the same struggles.
And it took me three years and a lot of financial investment to get where I am now.
And my belief is that it shouldn't take others three years,
and it should be financially accessible.
And that's why, besides my real consulting,
like what's more my income,
being an impact consulting on SEGs,
supporting founders to scale sustainably, et cetera,
I have this mission to do something
with this recent button that the curveball life showed me.
And it is like my mission, I always love to say,
my mission is to help 1 million women
turning life challenges into life changes for the better.
These women want to break through in their careers, but they want to do it without the burnouts.
They want to have more fulfillment in life.
And it's possible.
The world of women is my world.
And I needed to heal, to see and to deal with life challenges.
And I believe that other women can do the same.
I also believe that there is a lot of strength
and that what these times need,
what the world needs for the moment is more women, okay?
But women still lack internal beliefs
and also support systems.
So it starts really with women deciding
that they are worthy and willing to change.
And the women who are ready for change,
I really want to support these women
through my community, through my program.
So this is a 90-day coaching program, one-on-one,
not just about career advancement,
but like I said, about redefining success,
reframing their challenges and helping them doing it
because helping them, redefining for them
what it means to be at our best again.
What are your coping mechanisms how
can we change them and just aligning professional aspirations with this personal fulfillment is so
important and these are beautiful journeys but what i love most is actually the community it's
not the program itself one one is building a community of all these amazing women that
just are supportive for each other that they can learn grow ground
pivot redefine achieve whatever in life and career together and just knowing that there is like this
community with a sense of belonging that even in this high-performing world where outside world
thinks everything's fine and you're perfect you're successful what are your challenges these people
also have lives they have relationships a family and we all know we all have issues we all have whether it's
with health whether it's with family whether you want to repurpose and redirect and you don't know
how because you were always on this high speed train never slowing down never seeing your true
self actually uncovering parts of yourself as a woman in your 20s 30s 40s 50s doesn't matter it's
all different phases of life and taking time to slow down and having people to that can relate
is so important and so why i call it an operator heating system is because it's
my inspiration and i'm building it actually that i can you that i, actually I'm digitizing all the tools I use from life
rule assessments, decision matrix, the Ikigai, of course, career path roadmaps, all these
things, blueprints, happy trackers.
I'm digitizing this so it can become real tangible tools, a toolkit actually that women
can use whenever they want, wherever they want, and still can lean into the support
of a community.
So in that way, it can be financially accessible, low ticket.
And those who still want one-on-one coaching, just they can jump on a call with me and then we can see if there is a match.
That's what I do today.
But actually, I love these free clarity calls I do every day. I have three spots every day limited for women who really need some clarity, feeling overwhelmed.
And sometimes 15, 30 minutes is enough and others need more.
Okay, I'm there.
Some just need a community.
Some need one-on-one coaching.
It's not a one-size-fits-all, but I love the journey.
It's learning by doing as well.
Not perfect.
And that's great.
Done is better than perfect.
The learning is in the doing for me.
And that's what I practice.
And that's what I share with all these amazing women.
Like I said, we need more women leaders.
And we are seeing more of them emerge around the world.
My podcast is global, with guests from different parts of the world.
And a major part of the audience is in the U.S.
But see, you are in Belgium, in Europe, and I'm curious about any specific challenges or interesting phenomena related to women leaders in your country or in your culture? Are there particular difficulties
or unique cultural aspects in Belgium or your part of Europe that may differ from those in the U.S.
or Asia? I'd love to hear about your observations and experiences.
Because my program is online and I actually focus on the world,
so most of the women actually indeed come from the US, Canada, even India.
One from Singapore indeed, it's the MENA region, Middle East, North Africa.
It's actually beautiful to see how actually the cultural context,
the face, the layers are universal, really.
When we talk about feminine energy, masculine energy, male, women,
it's whatever, all these these layers it's really universal and so when we talk about feminine context when we talk about what women a woman or women
experience in leadership positions it's that's actually what I can can really
draw today from all these different women all around the world I talk with every day.
And so the cultural sensitivity is really not depending on like a local context.
I think it's more cultural.
It's about cultural challenges women face.
But again, university is about sexism.
It's about racism.
It's about societal expectations and these different layers you need to provide tailored guidance and support
so i have women who say look the last 10 years i had coaching but they were all male coaches life
coaches business coaches but they don't seem to grasp the deeper layers that women face they just
i've just hit the boundary.
I cannot dig deeper with this coach.
So actually, I need a woman whom I can relate.
And I think that's logic.
It's like going to therapy.
If you go to couple therapy, for example,
relationships, I know here in Belgium, for example,
we have more and more intercultural couples.
So couples that, you know,
with different ethical backgrounds etc and it brings certain again other complexity with it so the therapists here most of
them are native belgians so they are mostly white and after two or three sessions these couples face
difficulties because they cannot dig deeper the therapist cannot relate with the world, with the culture, with the implicit language that just is part of the intercultural world.
And so that's why I love the fact that we are with so many different kind of coaches, that there is diversity.
And that's why I chose the niche of women.
Of course, I can coach men.
There are also men who are jumping on calls with me i want to work with me and yes please let's go but i just know that's why i choose hyperform women i am i was and i am a hyperform woman and
just feel i can relate more to different layers when we talk about relationships when we talk
about your position as a daughter as a sister as a friend as a lover as whatever the first female board member as the first female
whatever we are confronted always with the same judgments with the same difficulties complexities
and that's so nice that you don't need to put all your energy in explaining all these things and
someone can just relate and you can just put in the work together that's what you want you want to put in the work you don't only want to overcome it you
want to learn to live with difficulties and to accept actually the different the curveballs and
the challenges that that life throws at you and so i think it's more that it's more like really
coupled with cultural yeah culture and gender or maybe for others, religion and sexual orientation.
I think these are all these different layers.
So that's why the supportive community with all these different kinds of women is so important.
Because there they can really share experiences, gain insights, support each other.
It helps combat isolation.
And it really brings a sense of belonging that mostly something they miss in even
very in their inner circle with friends or maybe at home even so that's why it's great to have that
kind of sense of belonging or find it somewhere but it's not linked to a country or something
because also for me i was born here but i'm moroccan but in morocco i'm belgian so in the
world i'm just see himihem, Moroccan Belgian woman
that today has Women Leaders OS and is an impact consultant.
And I thrive in actually these situations
where we have challenges and people want impact
and we can just work together, collaborate
and inspire common goals and do things together.
That's, I think, not country or geography,
but really, like, just the environment, like you said.
It's more hybrid, and I love that.
I love that.
So basically, you're saying that
while you work with women from different parts of the world,
you found that many of the challenges they face are universal.
Yes, there may be local cultural elements or influences,
but many of these issues across cultural,
for example, being judged whether it's for being married,
having children, not having children,
being LGBTQ, having long hair, short hair.
These judgments aren't limited to women in Belgium, New York, San Francisco, or Hong Kong.
They're simply issues that women everywhere face. You are helping women
from different corners of the world navigate these universal challenges. Actually, what I deal with
is life challenges. Like I have hit rock bottom and I had to uncover my values, my beliefs. I had to accept the situation I was
in that I couldn't go back. So it's really about life. It can be medical, it can be health, it can
be divorce, it can be grief, it can be indeed problems with your child, it can be problems
just with yourself, just lack of self-belief, lack of confidence because all this cross-cultural
context did to you and how you cope with it. maybe it's coping mechanism in the wrong way maybe it's burning you out etc so for me the great thing is that we all face life
challenges and that i just love and i'm good at reframing these challenges to possibilities to
pivot to grow and to lead you to fulfillment and success in life and career without burnouts.
Learn how, for example, to set boundaries,
not seeing it as if you're a people pleaser,
not seeing it as something selfish or mean.
And the cultural context, the cross-cultural context is a surplus.
The fact that we also, all these different layers,
experience all these different layers.
That's why I can be a better match for someone or the person
I can coach, high-performing woman, can be a better match for me. We just can relate.
I'm curious, what's the persona of the women leaders you tend to work with?
Or those you are most drawn to helping? The reason I raise this question is because, honestly, in my view,
when mainstream people talk about women in leadership,
it still feels a bit generic, especially before COVID.
I noticed that mainstream media tended to showcase a certain type of woman leader, someone who might fit into a traditional
mood, such as happily married with two or three children, long hair, maybe blonde, maybe blue eye. Why? Essentially, the ideal wife role model in the eyes of men.
This image doesn't differ much from the so-called women's role models of the past.
But we know that in reality, there's so much diversity in the world of women leaders.
Now that we're in 2024 moving into 2025, the world is changing rapidly. So back
to my original question, what types of women leaders do you like to work with? Or would
you like to work with more? I believe even within the world of women leaders, we need
more diversity.
Like the persona I work with, or I love to work with are these women are amazing.
Okay, already.
They don't need someone to grow or help nurture some kind of talent or something
because they are talented and they already achieve so many things.
But sometimes you go through moments of self-doubt, fear of failure,
even success and still lack motivation.
Okay.
And when you're high performing in a golden cage, you just want to stick to your comfort zone.
And it's these women that I love to work with.
Help them recognize this challenge as a first step to overcome and overcome these challenges.
And moving forward with this, getting back this confidence and self-belief and determination
and letting them know that like these challenges,
they are totally concurrable, okay?
Maybe you don't see it for the moment
because you were always high-performing, successful,
and something happened to you
and you're now confused and overwhelmed.
It's about gaining that clarity and direction again,
about repurposing.
And I think with some tools, solid guidance,
a great support system,
with Women Leaders OS,
I can really help women to navigate
from the place where they are
to what they are becoming.
So you need to learn
or you need to try to avoid burnout.
You need to learn how to release stress.
You need to learn how to relieve pressure.
You need to learn how to relieve stress. You need to learn how to relieve pressure. You need to learn how to relieve guilt
when not working, for example.
Okay?
Start enjoying these little playful moments in life.
And then, when we have this,
when we have this personal part of life
and relationships, etc.,
I love to work with this woman
to, of course, a successful career. It and be a new job, a new title.
But mostly I love to work with founders because I'm an entrepreneur myself and I know what it is to take a project from zero to a hundred.
And so I just love to work.
So I have this woman and I cannot say for what institutions she works in New York because it's one of the most known institutions.
She's a high level director there and she wants to pivot. She's tired of the environment. She actually moved from the other
part of the world to New York to have this position. And then after years, she's, this is
not my environment. I cannot drive here. This is too much bureaucracy. And I'm more entrepreneur.
I was always a VC, et cetera. And now she contacted me and she asked, okay, can you help navigate actually the closure of this chapter so I can, I don't burn up bridges.
I can, no, just live in a friendly manner and I don't know how to communicate.
My culture is different.
So can you help me there?
Because with my private political experience, I can.
That's one thing.
And on the other hand, and I have time. I have some savings. I can take six months
to build my new business,
but I don't know what it will be.
Can you help me?
I love to do that.
I love to help someone who is confused
or who is like a little bit new direction,
help them in the present situation
and start crafting their future together.
That's for me,
those are great journeys
because I also learn a lot
and we do it together and it's really, yeah, it's really personal and it's so,
I'm so grateful that these people jump on a call with me and can relate with me
and just trust me to, yeah, to go on this journey with them because it's quite
important, right, the next 10, 15 years of your life is always important, the next runway.
Yes, you mentioned the word trust.
In the last few interviews with different guests,
whether they were coaches, tech innovators, or someone in recruitment,
trust has come up as a key theme.
As we enter the AI era, where we'll see more and more applications of AI in our daily lives,
the importance of humanity with trust as a major component remains crucial.
Trust is hard to build, hard to find, and once broken, difficult to repair.
For you, as a coach and consultant, trust is a key success factor in pursuing and accelerating your agenda to make an impact on women leaders. To wrap up our interview,
I'd like to ask you to share genuine advice
with our listeners,
whether they're young women in their 20s
or more experienced women in their 40s, 50s, or 60s.
You work with women from various backgrounds.
So what are your top three pieces of advice
for women facing life challenges,
feeling lost,
or struggling to find direction?
Perhaps they might eventually reach out to you
for consulting sessions
or seek help from a therapist or psychologist.
How can they begin to feel more relaxed and take the first steps towards getting unstuck?
When you're feeling lost, mostly lost something.
And the moment you lose almost everything, everything you cared about, you have to believe that you will overcome this loss.
We all did.
And if you're back in shape, you just realize that nothing in life can happen that you cannot overcome.
And maybe even you actually don't overcome it you work
through it and live differently and to believe this you need really to trust the process and
it's something it's making me sound vague but it's something you have to believe and you cannot
change the situation you're in if you don't believe and the path you're on will will roll out how it will realize it will manifest
that's that's how it is and another part is there's so much about glamorized success but
there is always another side okay everything you see when you're feeling lost and confused and you
envy all these other people just know that there's always another side
of growth okay so there are extraordinary people that you envy when you but they are also in deep
pain even if they are millionaires or have social status and they are going through depths of
darkness so don't mirror yourself with these people when you are lost because i did i
envied so many people i was focused on the other instead of focusing on myself okay you lose time
you leave energy you leave you lose self-belief confidence everything you need to start your
transformation and the other part is just success is moving through the peaks and lows equally
embracing what is strong and us. That's success.
The rest is noise.
If somebody says to you,
this is success, look at me,
don't believe it.
Success is failure, stumbling,
maybe bankruptcy, candles, trials,
whatever it is.
Just know that the real success and wealth is inside you.
And when you find that source,
you become resourceful.
To wrap it up,
I always say to the community of women I work with, you will always be in. You are going to make mistakes. You are not perfect, okay? The
learning is in the doing. So embrace the change, lean into the resistance you feel, but also be
grateful. Every day, these three things that you're grateful for. Focus on the abundance that you're surrounded with,
whether it's love or the little things.
Instead of focusing on the lack of something, the voids, okay?
Your future will pan out just as it's supposed to be
and let your values guide you.
I think that's, for me, the most important thing.
And if you really want to have something very tangible,
what helped me a lot and helps a lot of people I'm surrounded with
is create a structured daily routine, okay?
Do these daily walks in nature.
They're brain juice.
Start journaling.
Practice gratitude.
It really helps stay positive.
Pursue something like a further education.
It can be a course.
There are so many free courses online.
Do something that sharpens, that keeps you sharp, that sharpens your knowledge, for example.
You don't feel you're not able to learn.
No, you keep on learning.
Engage in sports.
So important.
And if you're really in a dark period, of course, you need therapy.
Of course, you need therapy of course
you need to understand and manage your mental health through professional help but all these
little things it's compounding it's compounding to change it's compounding your transformation
and it's i can assure you it works it didn't only work for me it works for all these amazing women
i work with for sure yeah i can truly resonate with a lot of those points.
For example, the concept of success has become more distorted since the rise of social media.
The glorification of success has only gotten worse with everyone talking up their achievements,
making everything seem more
glamorous than it really is. But honestly, this projection is not only misleading,
it can also be entirely false. There's so much happening behind the scenes that people don't show. If you take those projections as truth or benchmarks for your
own efforts, you end up losing because the benchmark isn't even real. Instead, you should
focus on your own progress. Making progress every day, whether it's learning
something new, reading a few pages, taking a short course, or exercising, is empowering.
You see yourself improving day by day, and that's what matters. Learning is both empowering
and an investment. People often talk about helping women become more financially independent, focusing on financial investment.
But investing in yourself, learning new skills, earning certificates, or even exploring fields like front engineering can be incredibly lucrative.
It opens up new opportunities that can eventually turn into financial gains.
Learning is an investment in yourself.
Women around the world have often been bound by certain systems and structures since childhood.
Whenever we deviate from those expectations,
we face judgment and discouragement. We need more healthy positivity to help us advance,
even if it's just bed by bed. Because as you said, everything compounds over time.
Yeah, exactly.
Oh, pleasure.
It was really nice.
It was really,
it was lovely to do this.
It was one of my first podcasts was in English.
So sorry for my maybe some mistakes,
but I love doing this
and share some,
I think just real stories.
Like I said,
I think it should be part of impact
to contribute to people's stories and people's journeys.
So it's always a pleasure to contribute in this way.
Siam, you are being modest.
It's your first time as a guest on an English-speaking podcast.
And it's also my first time as the host and creator of one.
A lot of my guests don't have English as their mother tongue.
Neither do I.
But we are stepping up and moving forward
to make our voices heard.
And in a noisy world, that's what really matters.
Thank you so much for joining us today.
If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show,
leave us top-rated reviews,
check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host.
Until next time, take care.