Chief Change Officer - Collin Plume: The Golden Rules for a People-First Financial Future – Part Two

Episode Date: October 16, 2024

Part Two. I used to work in LA for TCW Asset Management, where I managed billion-dollar funds for institutions alongside the Bond King, Jeffrey Gundlach, focusing on bond and credit portfolios. Today, I’m meeting someone else from LA, but with a different angle on investment—precious metals like gold and silver. Our guest, Collin Plume, is here to talk about something often overlooked and undervalued. But don’t worry—this isn’t a sales pitch on buying gold or silver. Collin and I will dive into more personal topics: family, parenting, retirement, and the sense of control over personal finance, as well as financial education for future generations. So if you have kids, care about your financial future, are looking after elderly family members, or are simply concerned about financial and family planning in general, join us and get inspired by Collin’s journey in building wealth from scratch. This is part 2 of our 2-part series on Collin and his golden rules of people-focused finance. Key Highlights of Our Interview: Gold, Real Estate, and Learning New Tricks: Why Diversifying is the New Smart “Be willing to learn about a new investment or a new strategy every year, whether you decide to do it or not. But I think being willing to learn about it is important. It will help you and it’ll keep you sharp.” Beware of Finfluencer Hype: Not Everything That Shines Is Gold “Too often, people take influencers at face value, believing that the most engaging video equals the best advice. In reality, it’s important to fact-check and do your own research because many influencers are just paid promoters, not experts.” Do Your Research: Don’t Let Algorithms Make Your Financial Decisions “Algorithms don’t care if the advice is good; they only care if the content is appealing. So when it comes to financial decisions, it’s on you to dig deeper, check multiple sources, and make sure the influencers you follow are legit.” The Real Cost of Reckless Spending: Teaching Financial Discipline to the Next Generation “As a family, we prioritize experiences like travel and education over material goods. I’ve shown my children the gold and silver I’ve set aside for them and explained how these assets will be worth something significant in the future. Whether they want to start a business or pay for college, these investments will be there for them." “I make sure my kids know that money isn’t something to be taken lightly. Whether it’s explaining mortgages to my 8-year-old or discussing the importance of not being wasteful with their toys, they need to understand that everything has a cost. I often use examples like Disneyland—where you can easily spend thousands in just a few days." Connect with us: Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Collin Plume Chief Change Officer: Make Change Ambitiously. A Modernist Community for Growth Progressives World's Number One Career Podcast Top 1: US, CA, MX, IE, HU, AT, CH, FI Top 10: GB, FR, SE, DE, TR, IT, ES Top 10: IN, JP, SG, AU  1.3 Million+ Streams 50+ Countries

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation. I used to work in Los Angeles for TCW Asset Management, where I managed billion-dollar funds for institutions alongside the bond king, Jeffrey Gundlach, focusing on bond and credit portfolios. Today, I'm meeting someone else from LA, but with a different angle on investment. Precious metals like gold and silver. Our guest, Colin Plume,

is here to talk about something often overlooked and undervalued. But don't worry, this isn't a sales pitch on buying gold or silver. Colin and I will dive into more personal topics. Family, parenting, retirement, and the sense of control over personal finance, as well as financial education for future generations. So if you have kids, care about your financial future, are looking after elderly family members, or are simply concerned about financial and family planning in general.

Join us and get inspired by Colin's journey in building wealth from scratch. This is part two of our two-part series on Colin and his golden rules of people-focused finance. Let's get started. So, the desire for control often comes from a lack of trust and confidence in the system. And I think when you look at the idea of the dollar itself, the return is so low in the bank also relative to what you can make out there. This year, gold is up 27%. Even though the banks are paying 4% in the bank right now,

they're only paying that 4% right now because they know that there's so many other investments out there that yields a much higher return. And so with inflation being something that everybody is talking about, everyone's talking about the price of energy and the price of food. And all of these things have gone up. They've skyrocketed over the last few years. People also are saying, I can't make 4% in the bank.

And I think the returns of the banks in the U.S. are going to continue to go down. I would not be surprised if we see 3% savings returns by next year and even lower. So the other idea too is I just can't leave money in the bank because I need to keep up with my quality of life. And I think that's the thing about gold. If you go back over time, if you go back the last 150 years, gold has been able to keep up with inflation and the cost of living in a way that most other items have not. And that is also the big idea with investing for retirement is you want that same quality of life in retirement that you have while you're working. That's why you're working so hard is you want to be able to have the things in retirement.

And yes, you may have to downsize your living to afford to live as long as you may live. With that being said, the idea is you want items that are going to keep up with the cost, the increasing cost of everything that's going up out there. And so that's another reason why a lot of people, if they were hitting very heavy in cash, they've been looking at gold and silver as another way because they need to make better returns. And obviously, nobody has a crystal ball of where things will go. But typically, during heavy inflationary periods, gold has performed very well. You can see the late 70s, early 80s is a perfect example when inflation was in the 14 to 16 percent range. and gold was keeping up with that and outperforming those numbers. Yes, inflation.

The common enemy we all face. But what other concerns should people be thinking about? That's another reason that a lot of people are diversifying. And that's a big part of my philosophy, Vince, is keeping your options open in terms of investment and also being willing to learn about different investments. That's the thing that will really separate people today and for the next 20, 30 years is not being stuck on some of the old ideas. If you look at the S&P 500, if you go back 20, 30, 40 years ago, many of those companies are no longer in business. So the idea that you should just stay into one stock or stay into

one area in terms of investment for forever is really not a smart strategy. The idea is being diversified in different investments so that you're protected. And I'll tell you, a lot of my clients that I had when I was in commercial real estate, many of them bought gold and silver from me. And I had conversations with them over the last few years that said that they were so happy that they diversified out of real estate because real estate has been so difficult over the last few years. And I don't think it's going to get any better. I still think real estate is going to have significant issues. And so if you have all your funds and just real estate,

just rental properties, just whatever it is in real estate, and you go through a down period, and we've been in a two and a half year down period in real estate, then you could really jeopardize that comfortable retirement if you don't have other assets to pull from. And so that's a big part of my philosophy is I do own real estate. I do own lots of gold and silver. I do own some stocks. It's important to be diversified. And I'm even diversified into buying additional businesses because I do want to be more diversified. And I think that owning good quality businesses and building them up is another way to have an income stream. And so I do exactly what I tell people to do and I am diversified. And that makes me feel more comfortable is not having all my eggs in one basket. And I think that's the thing that I would say to people is the most important is be willing to learn about a new investment or a new strategy every year, whether you decide to do it or not is up to you. But I think being willing to learn about it is important.

It will help you and not a way for success. I think that they have a very specific job. They have certain items that they can put you into or sell you into. And if you only rely on them, you could be missing out on some tremendous opportunities in other investments that are out there. And so the goal, I think today, and this is the thing I tell people about gold and silver, the great thing about owning gold and silver is that you are in control of it. You're the boss. The downside to owning gold and silver is that you're the boss. So you're the boss of both sides. And for some people, that's what they want. And for other people that are afraid of it. But I

think ultimately, when you're talking about your future and your finances and all the things that you've worked so hard for, ultimately, you do want to be the boss and you want to dictate your future yourself and be in charge of it. And I think that's the big shift that's happened investing over the last 20 or 30 years. People now, people on the internet, people on YouTube that are talking about finances and it's really shifted from the financial advisor model to, hey, I can learn stuff online. I don't have to just trust my financial advisor. I can learn on my own. I can go to YouTube. And I think people that are doing that, that are learning about new investments are really benefiting from all the information that's out there. You've mentioned the word retirement a few times now. Well, this podcast isn't

specifically about retirement. A lot of what we discuss, era of change and uncertainty. Pies into that. Even the whole notion of retirement is evolving. With AI set to reshape many aspects of work and career development. The idea of what retirement looks like is shifting too. Now, for those who still have a stable job and income,

would you say in preparing for whatever that version of retirement might be? Diversifying or investing in gold and precious metals could serve as a hedge against income uncertainty? Have you worked with clients in this situation before? And what advice do you give them? Yeah, I think being diversified in retirement, I think your question is interesting in that retirement is changing in that people are working longer and I think it's free that they're working

longer. I recently was on a work trip and I jumped into an Uber with a gentleman who sold a business, was successful, but he felt like he was too young to retire. And so he was driving Uber to the money was helpful, but not necessary, but he wanted to stay sharp. He wanted to have a purpose. And so I do think he was in his late 70s. And I think that the idea of retirement is going to change for people because they can work from home. They can do different jobs. Father's a great example. He's 80 years old and he still works for us part time because he likes he likes having a purpose.

And I think that's the thing that people are learning about today is that maybe retiring too quickly is not the best thing. And maybe having one of these gig jobs, a part-time job. There's so many, and I talk a lot about this on my podcast too, there's so many gig jobs that people that are in their 60s and 70s and 80s could do. Writing. Writing is a lost art. There's so many people looking for writers, people that can create scripts and content. And I think that a lot of people are transitioning into these jobs and their pay, amazing. I've seen writing jobs paying $25, $30 an hour average

for good writing. And the list goes on and on. So I think retirement, the idea behind it is changing. And I think that people are realizing that they can continue to work in some capacity. And I think it's healthy to keep your mind sharp. Also, having a little extra income is important. I think people don't know where the cost of things are going to go.

And having another income stream in your later years can be really helpful. We at Noble Gold have hired a number of people that are older than 60, and it's been fantastic, not only for them, but for us, because they have so much life experience, so much for us to learn from. And we've really benefited from hiring people and typically when someone would retire. So that's been quite, quite interesting. And a big shift for us is being open to people at all ages and stages in their life. And I think that we and our clients have really benefited because for my dad, for instance, a lot of the people

that he's talking to are in a similar position to him. They're in their 50s, 60s, and 70s. And so he can really connect with them on what they're seeing day to day and what they're feeling about their retirement and how comfortable they are. So I think the idea of retirement is shifting. I think more people are working longer, but I think it's actually in a lot of ways, it's healthier that they have some purpose in their life. And I think it's something that is a big shift as people are living to 100 and more. I don't think many of the financial advisors have created strategies where people are living to 100. And having an extra income coming in, $1,000 or $2,000 or $3,000 a month potentially, in your later years,

can definitely stretch your dollar a lot longer than it used to. So I think the whole thing is changing, Vince. That brings up another opportunity for a longer-term strategy, especially for people with continued income. It's definitely healthier, both physically and mentally, while exercise is crucial for physical health, keeping your brain active is just as important for mental and physical well-being. Earning extra income, even part-time, helps with that. And of course, some of that extra income could go towards investments, like you mentioned. But it's also about maintaining control. Control over your life, your mobility, and what you want to achieve before the final days. I think we all, at the end of the day, want to own

our lives and have control over them. And one of the tools to do that is money. Now that you've touched on retirement, there's another trend, the rise of financial influencers. These days, anyone can learn about finance and investments online, anytime, anywhere. On one hand, these influencers help democratize financial information and make advice more accessible. But on the other hand, there are concerns. Questions about their qualifications, the accuracy of their information, conflicts of interest, and the fact that some may lack formal financial education or ethical standards. Some may promote investments for personal gain without proper disclosure. With so much information out there, what's your take on this rising force of influencers? And how would you advise listeners who are navigating through all this to make smarter decisions? I think fin influencers are, I would say that there there's it's good and bad in that the good part

about it is you can get access to a different style of learning that probably wasn't there before for instance if you wanted to learn about Tesla, you used to go online and look at the stock and read the prospectus and make your own determination, or maybe you had a stockbroker tell you their thoughts. And now you could go to YouTube and look up Tesla and you could get different sides of the story and different ideas of what's going to happen or thoughts from that influencer. And you could learn about the stock in a different way, because for many people learning in that way with video is much easier than reading a perspective. So in some ways it's, it's really good. And even for me,

when I want to learn about something, obviously in the financial realm that I don't know, I will go to YouTube first, and then I will go and try to get information or a book or do research in many different ways. The bad thing is that they think they are authorities and people believe they are authorities. And a lot of times it's just their opinion or even worse, they're getting paid to tell you something. And so one area that I know that a lot of people got that lost money was the NFT market, which was a

derivative of the crypto market was this NFT craze. And people saw influencers like Jake Paul and a lot of these or Logan Paul, I can't remember one of of the Pauls, that created these NFTs, and they said that they would do these certain things. There's other ones out there that have done this too. There's hundreds, probably thousands. And a lot of times they were getting paid either to create that product or promote that product, and there was really nothing behind it. And a lot of people took their word at face value

the big thing about when you're getting into investing or you're doing any kind of money you gotta do you gotta spend some time and do research and check different sources the problem today is that people will if they like an influencer the way that they talk, they'll take their word for it. And unfortunately, the algorithms of these social media, it's not based on who's giving you the best information or someone that's the most credible. It could be either that they paid to get in front of you, number one, or two, they could have just presented the video in a way that is the most appealing to people. And so the problem is that people, and they've done studies about this, and they've done it on

Google too, is that people think the things that pop up on social media or on Google searches, they think that those are the authorities. And actually, it's just based on the algorithm of that social media platform. So you may watch a video about Bitcoin from a person that just made the most appealing video and maybe isn't the most knowledgeable on the subject. So it's like what we used to do when we used to do research is that you want to check multiple sources, getting information from one place and then trying to back check it in multiple other places if people did that i think they'd be in a much better place but unfortunately people do see these influencers and they take it on face value when we advertise with influencers we really tell people to do their research on us and do the research on precious metals too and that's why we send them so much education because ultimately, I want people to make an educated decision before they buy from us. It's important that they do that

because it's a long-term relationship. I know that if someone acquires precious metals from us, they may be our client for the next 10 or 15 or 20 years. So I want them to know that they made an educated decision, that they did their research. So it's important that people take that extra step and they take the time and they do the research on the company that we tell people, check out our reviews, go to the BBB, go to Google, check us out. These are all things that you need to do before you make a financial decision and not just take that influencer's sort of word for it because they could just be paid for an ad. And I've talked to influencers about promoting us and I've asked them if they're interested in precious metals and they've said no. And I've

said, I don't want to do business with them. I only want to work with influencers that are interested in what we do, because otherwise it's just, they're just getting paid to say it and it doesn't make sense and it doesn't ring true. So it's important even for us to work with influencers that really believe and have done their research so that they could, if they do an ad for us, that it's credible, that it's actually something that they believe and have done their research so that if they do an ad for us, that it's credible, that it's actually something that they believe in. And I think that's the big disconnect with influencers is sometimes they will just promote a product for money

and not necessarily that they believe in. I think the issue with financial influencers is just one part of a larger problem. Ever since the internet became a part of our lives, we've had access to a flood of information. And now, with social media and various platforms, we all have to deal with misinformation and fake news. These influencers are just one group of influencers sharing information, but often it's not verifiable.

This brings us to a major topic that has been discussed a lot lately in the media, which is developing critical thinking and independent thinking. These are skills we're supposed to learn in school and on a job. But with the rise of social media and some negative effects of technology, it seems like people are losing the art of thinking critically and independently. This brings me to our last and most important question.

Let's go back to your roots as a family man. You are a father of three young kids, the next generation. With your knowledge of investment and diversification, you're already building a financial safety net for them, buying gold for them, securing the future. But beyond the wealth you're building, there's the question of how they will make use of it as they grow up. That leads us to financial education and literacy, which I believe is lacking in today's society, especially for younger people.

So as a professional investor who helps clients day in and day out, also as a father of three, how are you preparing your children for their financial future? How do you nurture the ability to become critical thinkers, independent decision makers, and financial literate individuals so they can make informed decisions when the time comes? I think the most important thing, Vince,

is when you're raising children, is having what my wife and I call is a united front, in that we have the same... I think the most important thing as a person today when you pick a partner is you have to align on financial values and goals. So much of what happens to relationships is because people are not aligned on those things.

My wife and I had, and I think our values are so similar, even when we first met, it's because both of our families lost the majority of our wealth and had to start over. So we both have this fear in us of what can happen when you're not diversified. Both of our families were not diversified. That has led us to where we are and what we have built and what we teach our children. And correct, I have gold and silver set aside for each of my children. Obviously the same amount because everything has to be equal. For anyone that has children, they know that this is the most important thing. I talk to them all the time about money and what things cost. And I talked to my oldest son recently about the mortgage.

I explained to him what a mortgage is. He had some very interesting questions about how it works and why. And I didn't get into the specifics of what the dollar amount is because it's not important. I want him to understand at an early age, he's eight years old, the twins are going to be six. I want them to understand the cost of things. And we talk to them every day about it, whether we give them a toy. And when the toy breaks, we've had some very serious conversations about them being reckless with money. And I think that the mistake people make is they think that kids today don't know or they don't understand. And they do know and they do see the way that you're treating money.

And if you go to Disneyland and you are buying them everything at Disneyland and you're being frivolous. And I'm just using Disneyland as an example because it's such an overpriced place. And it's such a capitalistic suck. The average two or three days at Disneyland, you can spend $2,000, $3,000 in a second. And I want them to understand that these things come from the idea that you have to understand what things cost and you have to be careful.

And it's important for me to do that. And I do it with my employees to a certain extent, too. We have a Slack channel and I put ideas in there for them of ways that they can cut costs or save money. And I understand that they need help also understanding these things because the system that we've created in the U.S., this capitalistic system, is great. And it has created this incredible economy. But in my opinion, a lot of ways we've gone too far. People are buying, people that make $30,000 a year are buying a $1,000 phone. It doesn't make any sense.

And a lot of times they're borrowing the money to get it. And that's because they feel like they have to. In today's world, they have to have it. If you go back 30, 40 years ago, if someone was making $8,000 a year, they wouldn't buy a $400 phone or a $300 phone. The math doesn't make sense, but in today's world, we've become accustomed to buying these things that we feel we have to have. And so my training for my children is that not everything is necessary, that you don't need these things. And the things that we value, the things that we do spend money on is travel and experience.

I think the number one thing I can give to them is seeing how different parts of the world live and how different people live. And so that's the one thing that we're willing to spend money on. But everything else is not necessary. And so my financial, hopefully, gift to them is that learning from other people in the world, focusing on education. We obviously spend a lot of money on their education and giving them all the tutoring and all the things that they

need to learn. But everything else, all the other stuff is irrelevant. And that's really, as a father that Sharon and I, as a family, as a unit, that we really focus on is that learning and educating, these are the things that you're willing to spend money on because they will help you, shape you as a person, make you a better person, educate you. Maybe you'll learn about a new business opportunity or maybe you'll learn about something in your soul that is important. But everything else, all the other stuff, it just eventually just becomes junk.

And I think that as a father and as an educator of people in finance, focusing on what's important is the thing that leads to a happy life. And I think that's why I've shown them their gold and silver. And I said, these things are worth value. They're going to be worth value. These are items. These are assets. In the future, if you want to start a business in your 20s,

you can use this gold and silver to start a business. If you need it at some point in your life to help with your family, these assets, these gold and silver, these coins, these small pieces of gold and silver will be worth thousands and thousands of dollars. I showed my son a kilo gold bar that I acquired many years ago, maybe five years ago. And when I bought it, it was worth $60,000. It was a kilo of gold. Today it's worth over $80,000. And his mind seeing that, the idea that it went up $20,000 over the last five years. And I said, with this $80,000, I could pay right now for two years of your college, depending on where you go.

And he really was able to internalize that, that this asset, yellow metal, could pay for him to go to college potentially for two years right now, or it could help him start a business or anything. This is the education that I am trying to impart on my children, our employees, and also to clients and people out there. And I can't even tell you how many times

over the last eight years since we started Noble Gold that I've had people come, grandparents come and buy gold and silver for their grandkids instead of buying some Christmas present that they're not gonna need. And I can tell you that in the future, those grandkids are going to benefit much more than the toy that they could have bought. That's the thing, Vince, that I want to impart is that's the future of success,

is buying assets that have value, understanding the value of things. And those are the things that I really try to impart on my children and everyone that I talk to about investing. That's actually one of the biggest lessons my mother shared with me back in high school. She never had the chance to go to college. She grew up poor and didn't get that opportunity. But she loves learning, and she makes sure I could learn as much as I wanted. She always tells me, focus on your learning because that's something no one can ever steal from you. Correct. When you think about it, stocks and bonds can lose value overnight. But then, that's the argument that a degree doesn't hold the same importance anymore. That's a whole other conversation we could dive into in a different episode. But one thing is for sure.

Learning itself never goes out of style. Learning always has long-term value, no matter what. It's an investment that never depreciates. Correct. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media.

I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.