Chilluminati Podcast - 32: Episode 32 - Ted Bundy Part 1

Episode Date: September 18, 2019

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to stay on that piece of property you own. Whatever your needs are, we're here to help. Come visit a Motorsportsland RV Center or motorsportsland.com today and let Motorsportsland help you get away. ["MotorSportsland RV Center Theme Song"] All right, let's dive in. Hello, hello, everybody, and that's all I need.

I only need a, yes, and that's it. That's where I just look and I match and I cut the end. I'm ready. I'm ready. Welcome back, everybody, to some more Chilluminati podcast. I can't remember if we're episode 31 or 32. I've already lost track. 32 now.

32, 32. As always, I am Mike Martin, your host. Join my beautiful, wonderful L.A. Street Corner co-host, Alex Fosyane. Hey. How's it going, my man? I'm feeling groovy, man. Let's see if you're still feeling groovy

by the end of today's episode. Oh, no. Oh, no. And then the obviously beautiful, luxurious, ever-entertaining, Jesse Cox. I'm not on a street corner, so I'm doing pretty OK. I've got a roof over his head. It's just safe at night.

I mean, you know, it's Alex's style. I admire it because you could be rich or homeless, and you would fit in each category perfectly. Yeah, I'm like the doctor who of crazy people. You're the time-traveling dimension-hopping man that goes and visits the Beatles. That's why you have lifetime tickets to every dimension's Beatles concert.

Whoa! I'm excited for today, though, gentlemen. This is something of a personal super interest of mine. We're going back into the world of true crime, and I am fascinated with the world of serial killers in general, their psychology, while they operate. But before we go anywhere in there, literally yesterday, an article went up on, I believe it was, VICE.

Yep, it's VICE. That says, and I quote, the Navy says the UFOs in Tom DeLonge's videos are, quote, unidentified aerial phenomena. No longer objects. Oh, the Blink-way 2 guy? The Blink-way 2 guy. This is the same. All those videos.

This is the same stuff that we were looking at before. Yeah, all those videos that were, quote, and quote, leaked. Nobody knows where they came from, and it was Tom DeLonge that got them and released them, and the government acknowledged that they are real, like their actual thing. All the small things. Yeah, they nailed it.

Unidentified flying things. In official statements, the US Navy has, for the first time, officially stated that the three UFO videos made public by former Blink-way 2 singer Tom DeLonge's UFO research organization are footage of real, quote, unknown objects violating American airspace. Navy spokesperson Joseph Grandisher

told Motherboard that the Navy considers the phenomena contained slash depicted in those three videos as unidentified. It contains a strong word since they're like, what the hell is that? And then they fly off and they don't. It's because the thing that's crazy about this is this is the Navy being like, yeah, that's something, and we have no idea what it is to our knowledge.

And they're using phenomena now instead of object because of the way the thing moves is not anything that they have any knowledge of because it doesn't make sense how it moves. The terminology here is important. The UFO community is increasingly using the terminology unidentified aerial phenomena to discuss unknown objects flying in the sky.

John Greenwald, author and curator of The Black Vault, the largest civilian archive of declassified government documents, originally reported the news. Greenwald requested information in August from the Navy regarding the content of the three popular videos purporting to show anomalous aerial objects. In 2017 and 2018, three videos taken by Navy pilots

from the aircraft made national news. And in December 2017, the New York Times ran a story about Navy pilots who intercepted a strange object off the coast of San Diego on November 14th, 2004, and managed to shoot video of the object with their F-18's gun camera. This is exactly the same thing that I was talking about

in the Titanic Beyonce episode. I mean, you're not wrong. Yeah, I ask you a question. Just, I want to put this out there. To everyone listening, do you think it's any coincidence that Blink 182s take your pants off and jacket album has three circles on it? And one is a plane?

Do you think it's any coincidence that Blink 182 has an album with a cow on it at a dude ranch? Do you think it's any coincidence that Blink 182 has an album in which a woman is about to amily probe you? Do you think that Blink 182 is the secret government up to make us all comfortable with aliens being real? Or, or flip that, Tom has been trying to get the truth out forever through his art

and through his music and nobody listened. So he just decided to go ham. Travis Barker and Mark Hoppus, both whenever they, whenever people ask him about that, they're like, oh yeah, no, this is like the real Tom. This is not like him going rich people crazy. This is like what he was up to before Blink 182 was famous too, like he was like obsessed with all this type of shit,

like from a young age. Dan Ackroyd is the same way. Yeah, exactly. Dan Ackroyd is, Dan Ackroyd doesn't seem like he's all right. I don't know what's, I don't know what's up with him, but he doesn't seem like he's all, he doesn't seem like he's okay.

If you get the chance, you should absolutely go read this article because it's just fascinating the way the military tries to spin while they didn't talk about it when it first came out and what the purpose of their, of their job is and blah, blah, blah, all this stuff. But this just fits into the, to the idea that the past like five to 10 years declassification has through the government has been ramping up slowly and slowly and slowly

and there's just more and more and more shit coming out. Now, then again, as always, they're not saying aliens are real because there's no evidence that aliens, but they are saying there's shit in our sky that we don't know what it is. To me, it's crazy that they weren't like, it's a balloon. It's a drone that we are testing. Like they didn't pretend like it was anything.

They're just like, we don't, we don't know what this is. That's what's wild about it to me. Yeah, it's wild. So I had to, I had to open with that because that was just, oh, that was just exciting stuff. I'm really pumped to see if we get anything else over the next few years. All right, that was our detour into fun, crazy town.

Let's dive into real horror. This has been a long time coming. I think we even talked about it a little bit. Hold on, before we dive into real horror. All right, all right. Oh yeah, what am I talking about? I'm forgetting to shill. How am I forgetting to shill?

Hey, everybody, this is huge. Chiluminati is gonna have a Chiluminati live show on October 30th in the once ballroom at 7 p.m. in Somerville, Massachusetts, limited seats. We've already been selling tickets. You can go to chiluminatipod.com to grab your tickets right now. We have people flying in from England

to come see this show. It's gonna be wild. It's going to be super fun. It's from 7 p.m. to 10 p.m. Come hang out. We're gonna be hopefully making you guys laugh or scared or both. I'm not gonna promise that I'm gonna start floating,

but there's always the possibility. You never know. I mean, that's true. There's always a possibility that Jesse takes off his latex mask because the name exposes for the tall light that he is. Why do I have the latex mask? Because you're the one that denies aliens the hardest.

So of course you'd be the one that's the actual. Yeah, you're the perfect cover. Right, right, right. Go check it out. Like the alien from American dad that sounds like Paul Lind. Oh! Kilimanadeepod.com. Get your tickets right now.

We can't wait to see you there. It's gonna be super fun. Please come to it on Halloween. Hang out with us. Buy me a beer. Buy me a fruity girly drink and I'll sip on it for a few hours and then by the time everybody goes home, I'm done.

He'll be wasted, yeah. He'll be trashed off of smearin' off ice. My classic go-to drink. At the bar, really? Yeah, yeah, of course. No, I think my go-to beer, when I'm drinking with friends and I don't wanna look like pathetic is blue moon.

You can't go wrong ordering like a blue moon, right? That's not a wussy beer. That's a good beer. Right, blue moon, it's not super heavy. People look at it and go, oh, he's drinking a beer and you're free for socially acceptable drinks all night long.

It's supernaturally delicious. Supernaturally delicious. Supernaturally delicious. Sponsor us and you can use that tagline. Yo, you want a Boston-related conspiracy theory that we will not be covering at the podcast? Please do. I know what we'll cover.

I found out like a week ago that Sam Adams is brewed in Cincinnati, Ohio. Really? What? Yeah, what's that about? Well, maybe because it's part of, it was bought. What's that about though? How is that Boston's beer?

Because maybe at one time it was. I guess, I just like, I feel like once it's not in Boston, you're like, you're really kind of, you know, I don't know, Boston zone. It's all about that marketing, man. You still got Sam Adams on the front. He looks like a colonial Boston man.

That's all that matters to the people. I guess, I guess that's right. Also, apparently Sam Adams is also brewed in Pittsburgh as well. Even, another place that's not Boston. True, that's not Boston. Little conspiracy theory for you guys. Follow it all the way to the top.

See where it goes. Follow the money. You know, it's all corporate greed. That's what it is. Follow the hops. Now, follow me. Back into 1946, as we dive into the true war of a killer that I've been wanting to cover for a while.

I'm sure you've heard a million things about it, but our spin on this is gonna be less about the glorification of this person and more about what a piece of shit he was. And kind of. I just solved it, by the way. Welcome, sorry. I know we want to get to the episode.

Yeah, no, you solved it. You solved it. First of all, what did you solve? Aliens from the government. The beer. The more important story. The beer one. The Sam Adams.

Yes. China town ass plot. It's not really. Sam Adams just became so popular that they had to move from their Boston based brewing area to create more capacity. They did the Pittsburgh Brewing Company, best known for Iron City beer.

And then they went to Portland. And then they went to Cincinnati. Portland. Yeah. They didn't move. They're still, they still have their Boston based area, but they had to have more places to make the beer. And so the Boston beer company,

which is the name of this thing, is located to make a plane. Massachusetts. They have tours that you can go there. And yeah. So they just grew too big and they had to, they needed other places. So.

How many, how many? Forget it, Jesse. How many is a bean town? How many is a bean town? It's a BBC as their, as their abbreviation. I can think of three. Yeah. But I can't think of anything.

Ah, I thought of one. I thought of two and three got me. Yeah, there it is. So. But if you take three and add eight, that's 11, which is the month of November. Maybe you guys will, Chiluminati would be so successful.

You guys have to transport to Boston forever. That'd be great. No one wants to live in Boston forever. Let's be real. I don't know. It seems kind of cool. It's cool until winter hits. Oh yeah.

I forgot about that. Then winter sucks. Anyway, the actual episode, we've talked about them before. This is going to be a multi-parter. Ideally three is what we're looking at. We're finally tackling Theodore Bundy. Ted Bundy, one of the most notorious

serial killers the U.S. has ever seen. Right around that time where serial killers were effing everywhere, 50s, 60s, and 70s. They were just constant. We'll be looking at his childhood, then his life as a murderer, and then his life as a bizarrely wily prisoner who was very difficult to hold onto

for law enforcement back then. Because really, let's just be honest, because at the time he was white and he was charming. And that was enough. How could somebody like him- It still works to some degree. It's horrifying. But we're going to rewind,

and we're going to start at the very beginning. Our story begins back on November 24th, 1946, with a woman by the name of Eleanor Louise Cowell at the Elizabeth Lund Home for Unwed Mothers in Vermont, where she gives birth to Theodore Robert Cowell. Hilariously enough, Elizabeth Lund's Home for Unwed Mothers had a common nickname amongst the locals. Its name was Lizzie Lund's Home for Naughty Ladies.

That's what they used to call it back in the 40s? That's what the locals called it back in the 40s. That's like calling it the fuckhouse in 2019. Yeah, my mind went to like, this is like some place you'd see kind of a shadier part of town. It's just got blinking lights, one of them's out, and it just has a lady kicking her leg up and down.

No, that was like a- I don't think, I don't, I feel like we're thinking about this the wrong way. You guys are like, what a whorehouse. No, it's just where unwed mothers would go, because they had no place else to go, cause no one wanted them. And you guys are like-

We're translating it to the 2019 language, Jesse. Yeah, they put out, you know they put out cause they're pregnant. The neighborhood is saying that. If the neighborhood is saying that, all I'm doing is taking those unwoke neighbors from the 40s and transporting them to now. That's what I'm talking about.

I don't know that's what's going on. I feel like you guys are misinterpreting what's happening. But okay. I'm not saying all homes for unwed mothers are like this, but in wherever the hell this is- For mom, that would be the case either. I don't think this is the case. In Vermont, of all places, definitely not the case.

They were like, it was probably very drab. And everyone was like, you have to be in by 10. You've got children to raise. Like that's, I don't know, there's no way. Right. Well, I agree with you back in 1946, but if we were to blink and then all of a sudden we found a building in 2019-

You're still saying even in 2019. Are you telling me that in 2019, a young woman who gets pregnant and the father's not involved, the place she's going to stay at is like, the leg kicking Vegas hotel. No, I'm not saying that. I'm like-

That's how you're disturbing it. You're misinterpreting what me and Alex are saying, Jesse. No, I am not. I think myself and everyone listening heard exactly what you said. And it's crazy. It's crazy what you said. I'm not stoned enough for this shit.

All right. Moving on. Either way, November 24th, 1946 is when Theodore Robert Cowell was born. As the years would go on, this boy would become one of the biggest monsters the US had ever seen, confirmed and confessed to have killed at least 30 people,

though some estimates easily doubled that or more. And he would be known by a different name. Of course, we all know him now as Ted Bundy. Now, unlike most serial killers, Ted Bundy's childhood is different because it's strangely empty, normal-ish. What details we have are muddled with his own constant lies.

Because Ted, when he was caught and talking about his childhood, constantly changed what the facts might have been or what his story was. One moment, somebody's childhood was important and the next, he was the reason he became the monster he was. There was no real connection any of it,

but there are small things that we do know that we can kind of plug into holes and say, well, maybe this is part of the reason. Because a lot of the time serial killers are usually, they have mental illnesses that need to be taken care of and during this time especially, none of that was being watched over or taken care of. And then you mix that with trauma

or the difficulty of being, say, a gay man in the 50s or 60s or whatever the case, that's Dahmer's case, for instance. Usually that's what triggers them to do horrible things. It's not an excuse by any stretch, but it's a psychological reason that maybe they went down that path and who knows what would have happened

if they got help when they needed it. While others, you can usually look at the trauma, either physical, emotional, or likely a mix of both, with Ted, there was nothing huge and that sticks out to indicate trauma was the trigger to send him down this monstrous path. On the flip side of things, something important to keep his mind

is the time and era that he grew up, the late 40s and 50s. The things we do know about Bundy's childhood are sporadic, but come with some importance. The first is we don't know who Bundy's biological father is. That's like the first takeaway that we know for a fact.

At first, his mother had claimed that she was seduced by a sailor who may or may not have been called Jack Worthington. This man came in, swept her off her feet they had a night of insane love and lust and then literally the next day, he got up and disappeared. To be fair, Jack Worthington sounds like a name that I would say at like a hotel if I was like.

You're absolutely right. If I was like at my like midlife crisis and I was cheating on my like wife, the mother of my two kids. Thanks sir. Jack, you're like looking at like a bowl of candy with where there's originals. You're just like Jack Worthington.

You don't even, you don't even hesitate. You're just like Jack Worthington. That's it, you better practice. Yeah, Jack Worthington. Of course later as Bundy became, you know, a national name in the news, investigators did look into the name Jack Worthington and no name or record of any man

in the Navy or merchant's marines could be found. There was just no one who wasn't quote, quote, sailor that they could found that they found under that name. The story goes, according to the family at least, that after the short affair, the sailor quote Jack Worthington, unquote, immediately left off to sea and never returned. The family as loving and caring as they were,

especially for the time, set aside their reservations for such sinful acts and came together around Eleanor. Now that should, for a lot of families at the time, that's kind of a red flag, just cause that didn't happen very often. Usually they were pushed to go marry the person that they had a child with

because it was so looked down on in civilization. After the birth of our dear little Ted, they would return home to Eleanor's parents' home in Philadelphia to live with them as well. Wait, what's the red flag? That the family rallied around her and didn't push her to get married to this man. A lot of the times in this era,

if someone had a child at a wedlock, they would try to get the wife to go marry the man that ended up having. Extraordinarily chill to me. Right, and nowadays it's absolutely, I don't know if I'd call it normal nowadays, but it's absolutely accepted by the majority, I would say, but back then it wasn't.

I see. The late 40s is when he was born, like yeah, that's not super normal. I guess you looked like you were gonna say something that I interrupt. No, no, I'm good, please continue. No problem. I'm waiting for everything to reveal itself, please.

Well, that's the thing. It's from this point on that things, we have the tale of two stories, more or less, what people kind of generally believe, a mix in the middle with Ted's stories, because we don't truly, truly know. While living with his grandparents, Ted was raised to believe that his grandparents,

by the name of Samuel and Eleanor, were his parents and that his actual mother, who is now referred to as her middle name, Louise, was his sister. From this point on, what's truth and what's pure fabrication out of Ted's own mind is really completely unknown, as there aren't any first-hand sources

that can pinpoint the truth beyond those that are now dead and gone. So I'll quickly go over some of the stories, particularly the ones that can be quote-unquote believable to his childhood. In one theory, it's posited that Jack Worthington, or whoever, whoever ended up seducing Ted's mother, never actually existed as we put forward a little bit.

Nobody through his life ever stepped forward to claim Ted as his child. One of the things that one of our main, right, one of the things in one of our main sources and a shout out to Nathan, who really did a good chunk of one of our research, who helped out with the research here, one of our main sources is the book,

The Stranger Beside Me, which is all about Ted and the kind of personal relationships that they had with him. We'll talk a little bit about that in a little bit. But they even said like, nobody stepped forward to claim Ted as their child when he was going through court. And it's like, yeah, no shit, who would do that?

Who would wanna say, oh, that's my boy. I know who he is. But that leads to other theories. Some believe that the father was actually Eleanor's father. The grandfather. The grandfather, correct. He continually would call Eleanor a good girl and the adoption of her child as theirs,

as a clue to the truth. He never- He's a creepy hood girl. It's creepy that he was like- It's super creepy, right? Such a good girl. Yeah, like creepy. My good girl Eleanor. Why?

He never, ever pushed for her to find or marry this man, ever, just buying the story fully, which lead people to believe that he maybe helped create the story to help cover for the truth. Well, then there's the, all right, I gotta shut up. I know so much about this beginning part. No, the fact that Jack Worthington, again, because Alex hit the nail on the head,

when research was done, no one can find a Jack Worthington. No, people are like, that is not a real person. Yes, Jack Worthington. So it's important too, because it couples with the idea that he didn't push for her marriage and all this other stuff. But it's also important that there is zero evidence that that's the case.

We don't have any evidence, obviously, that he slept with his own daughter and fathered Ted. Eventually, however, in 1961, a man by the name of Jack Worthington was found. But he was not a sailor. Instead, he was something much less interesting and much worse, an investment banker. It's possible that this is the man

that did father the child and just lied about what he did as a living to have an easy out the next morning. That he was able to just drunk, horny, whatever it was, thought Eleanor was pretty cute, got a night of good times, was like, I'm a sailor, gotta go, ship calls, and then disappeared completely. But another important thing about this particular man, this particular man named Jack Worthington,

is that when he was interviewed and talked to, while he denies being the father of Ted, he does claim that he is the illegitimate child of JFK. And the web gets ever deeper. Are you telling me somewhere in Kennebunkport, there was like a mysterious cabal, where we'll create someone to go and rid us of our enemies. We have to design a weapon,

a weapon that can move undetected, white, and giant. A manchurian candidate, send him out into the world. Beyond that, though, that lead never went anywhere. That was where it ended. He claimed he was the illegitimate child of JFK. If I was the journalist who was like, and what do you say about this? I'm JFK's illegitimate son, I'd be like, goodbye.

See, all right, thank you for talking. All right, bye. Very cool story, see you later. And the final theory that was posited, but kind of quickly being maybe a strong one, but redacted over the years, is that in the 2000 edition, there are multiple editions of the book,

The Stranger Beside Me, but in the 2000 edition of The Stranger Beside Me, both the author and rule, the author claims that a man by the name of Lloyd Marshall is the father. But there's a few problems with this theory. Lloyd Marshall, first of all, at that time, was a decently popular lightweight boxer,

and around the time that the affair would have taken place, he had a big fight against George Wildcat Henry in a couple of weeks during that time. So it would have been a name known to a good number of people. It's also possible that Jack and Lloyd are actually the same person, and he just lied about his name as well.

What the, do we have any indication of why she thought that? Well, the biggest, no, we don't, we have nothing. And to further discredit this particular theory is that in later editions of the book, this little tidbit was completely removed. Interesting. So we don't know where that came from,

why the author put that in, whether it was a personal theory of theirs or what. What we do know is that eventually Ted would learn of his actual parents, his actual parents, and who they were, at least the sister being the mother, but how he learned is still a mystery. Some claim that the parents,

that is his mother just came forward and told him at a time where he believed that she believed that he would understand. There's also the story that Ted tells that his friend found the birth certificate while they were hanging out over his house, and he kind of discovered by accident that his grandparents were actually his parents.

And then of course there's theory that his grandparents told him when he was old enough to understand. Again, we don't know, but at the same time, it's interesting because isn't this a similar story to something that happened in Florida a couple weeks ago? A 14-year-old boy learned that his mom was a stepmom,

and he killed his whole family in the middle of the night with a gun. Whoa. That actually happened a couple of weeks ago, and he's now being held, and he might be getting charged as an adult. He killed his- Wait, wait, wait.

So he found out that his mom wasn't his real mom, and he went nuts? 14-year-old boy. Yeah, so I guess they had, no, they had a gun in the house. So. What a weird thing to like, oh, you're,

the woman I've known, I guess like maybe you'd have some sort of crisis, right? Where you'd be like, oh, everyone lied to me. I get that. But the logical leap of like, I must murder them all is bunkers town. And it was like,

I guess it was like a week or two before like learning and actually doing the action. Yeah, he killed his two siblings while they slept and his parents while they slept. Like it was premeditated. But I mean, I kind of linked that back to this and the idea that,

you know, whenever Ted learned if he was emotionally or mentally vulnerable at that point, and that was like a trigger for him, it's possible. But regardless of who or what the truth is when it comes to his parentage, it's still a fact that it grew up at least in the first few years of his life,

believing that his mother was his sister and his grandparents were his parents. It's this next bit that I personally believe to be the biggest, most pivotal role of Ted Bundy's upbringing when it comes to how it may have shaped his personality. But it's admittedly only possible, and I'm only running off of what we,

what we know and what we've learned over the research and the books that we ended up reading. It's a whole lot of hearsay from Bundy himself too, right? There's, yeah, there's what Bundy has said and then there's what his mother said during the 60s or when he was having the trial and sick a lot, which is what makes his childhood so difficult to pull apart.

It's, it's so, he lied so much that he just, you know, gasoline, he just muddied the field of lies so you don't know what is real and what's not. Right, exactly. He seems scarier that way. Yeah, exactly. And that's part of what he wanted. So, like I said, it's admittedly only possible.

We don't know, I don't know, but I'm just kind of putting together what we've learned and what we've heard. And that it's his relationship with his grandfather that was the most integral to who Ted ended up becoming. Initially, the relationship between Ted and his grandfather was labeled and called respectful, that Ted looked up to, respected,

and even clung to his grandfather during hard times of his childhood that he saw his grandfather as his kind of role model or ideal person to be. But later in life, during confessions and interviews, Ted would then claim to call his father a horrible, racist, wife-beating, tyrannical monster. And that everything he did scared him

and that he would beat his, not only his wife regularly, but his sister and sometimes even, and by a sister, I mean his real mom, and sometimes even Ted for misbehaving and acting out. And this is the same guy who maybe raped his daughter and illegitimate son, I see. So maybe it's not so crazy anyway that this guy's messed up. Well, and I kind of think like,

maybe both are partially true to some degree that he did respect his grandfather and saw how he held power over those that he lived with or something along those lines and those violent tendencies and those violent acts were something that rubbed off on Ted. Maybe he only, and maybe he never beat Ted and maybe he only ever beat and Ted

just kind of put that out as a lie to make him look like a victim as much as those that he did. We don't know, because we'll never know, but if this is true or even parts of it are true, you can see years of seeing this and years of living like this could warp one's perspective and mix that with a mental illness

that is left untreated for decades and you have a concoction for horrible, horrible shit. It's not great by any stretch. I'm curious if you guys know much about his upbringing or how much you know about Ted as a whole. Bundy, I mean, I know the basic details. I've seen like a couple docs about him over the years, but to be honest with you, I couldn't tell you for sure

like what stuff he did versus BTK versus whoever else. Yeah, they're all monsters in the end that weren't worth learning about the exact details, but there's still fascination in the psychologist. Yeah, and I know he's like the hot one who escaped. And that's a thing. I hate that.

That's a weird thing that's clung to him that he was attractive. Because if you look at any of his pictures at all, you just look at Ted Bundy, the dude is on his best, he's average. Yeah, he's totally invisible is what it is. You know what I mean? Yes, he's unassuming looking.

He looks like a pathetic person. He just looks like some guy you'd walk past on the street, which is I think, I think maybe what people mean by him being attractive. It's like when you imagine a murderer a lot of the times, I think you imagine like, you know, like a witch, man. They're never like that thing. Like even Dahmer was the same way, right?

He was so unassuming and quiet voiced and behind closed doors. He was trying to make fuck zombies. That's exactly what I'm saying. But also the thing that I think a lot of people, when they see Ted Bundy, they see photos of him in prison. They see photos of him smiling on trial, but the idea is every photo you see of everyone in prison,

they never look their best. They're in prison, right? They always look a little crappy. If you ever find photos of Ted Bundy before he went to prison, you can see why people would be like, oh, what a charming young man. Yeah, you can see it. And he was good with words and he was very good at convincing.

I mean, that goes to his law school upbringing that we'll get to. Sure. But yeah, it's one of those kind of, like you said, he's kind of a faceless man in the crowd, which is what makes him horrifying. That is kind of Tommy Paterra's weird thing, is that he could dress up as a rabbi or a woman

and nobody would know. You close your eyes, you imagine it, and you just hear Mickey Mouse coming at you. You're lulled into a false sense of security by Disney's most famous mascot. Don't have to shame me with Ted Bundy. Yeah, this guy's still alive in prison. He can still do bad things.

What is he? A million years old? I think he's like 80 now. Come get me, Tommy. You're gone. The next episode comes around and you're just not around. Where is he? What jail is he in?

He's down south. I think he's in Kentucky right now. From my memory. See, I came. I was right on your doorstep. I was right on your doorstep, Tommy. Don't say that to me. I'll get you, Alec.

I'll get you. Pull in, you have a Tommy Paterra haul, let's continue. It's also reported, again, this comes from Ted Bundy's lawyer, but that apparently Ted Bundy's own grandfather would speak to ghosts or other personalities or unseen beings that only he could see, which sounds like schizophrenia, obviously, to anyone who knows anything about mental illness

in that regard. But again, that comes from Ted Bundy's lawyer. So who fucking knows if that's real or not? And then, of course, it's all tied into the idea that his grandfather would have incredibly violent outbursts while he was growing up and would beat pretty much anybody that stood in his path. So again, if that's even a grain of that is true,

then we could see where that's coming from, but if you- Nice, clear picture, yeah. Yeah, I just see Ted idolizing this man for the violent things that he's doing because it gives him the control that he wants, because a lot of the way Ted killed, and a lot of the reasons Ted killed,

and the people that he killed specifically, all really do root back to two people, his mother and the woman that he never got to date. And everything- What? Yeah, there's a woman that he desperately wanted to try to date. She turned him down multiple times.

He got like- And then most of the people- And obsessed? Yeah, like most of the women that he killed, especially during that time, looked like her. And eventually, and he still would try to date her, and then what eventually ended up happening, and we'll talk in details,

that she agreed to date him just so she, and just so he could dump him, so he could dump her, so that he had that power trip of like, see, I am good enough for you, now go fuck yourself, and then he would dump her. Like that's something that would happen later on. Wild. Wow.

Also in the book, the author in 1950 says, Eleanor changed her last name to Nelson, and then moved out west to Tacoma, Washington. Why did she change her last name to Nelson? Do we know that information? I don't have it here, and he said it was urged on by her father, that to move out there, because he has family out there.

Samuel? Yes, correct. That Samuel urged Eleanor to move out to Tacoma, Washington. And change her name? Yeah, this was egged on mostly by her family, since they had family out there, and she moved in with her cousins, Allen and Jane Scott. Why would he tell her?

As to why, as to what happened, who knows? Weird, it almost makes me feel like maybe the story about the grandfather might not be true, and that they were like, hey, we're gonna take you in, even though they didn't want to, they did. But then when I assumed Ted was old enough, or they were settled enough, he was like,

all right, now you need to move out of the house. Like, maybe they were upset. Because during that time, you're right, during that time, the idea of having an unwed mother, or your kid, like that was a no, no, no, like they would not settle for that at all. There's like a literal plot point about that in Mad Men. Everybody was like, who the fuck is this?

What's interesting too is like, so maybe they tolerated it for a while, and then when you're ready, go. And then we'll send you to the West Coast, and we have family out there that'll take care of you, but we're really upset with you, that kind of thing. Maybe that's, and then maybe his anger issues were related to that, I don't know.

Maybe he wasn't banging his kid, but obviously there's something going on. That is like, emotionally devastating for all of them. Then there's the idea, right, that's 1950, which means he was only three or four by the time they moved, which then throws, then throws down onto his story that he was hanging out with a friend at four years old,

and that his friend found the birth certificate, and like, at four, that doesn't make sense, because he was out, he was in Tacoma, Washington, way later, and then like three years later. Was it maybe a Tacoma, Washington friend that they found it? But in 1951, Eleanor would then meet a man by the name of Johnny Culpepepper Bundy, who, now wonder, you know, now, whoa, that last name,

who would then adopt 10. They married in 51 and adopted 10, which means he was four or five. Oh my God, you're totally right. I haven't been thinking about this properly. The setup is that the grandfather and grandmother were like, oh, you're our son. Yeah.

So then at some point, they would have to say, hey, sister and brother, we're sending you out to the West Coast without your parents, which only makes sense if, at that point, he knew that she was his mom, because they were like, right, because that's crazy. Yeah, you mean they did it for appearances because the kids have to leave the house eventually?

Or the easier explanation, Ted's just fucking lying, and that his childhood might have just been- It is very narcissistic. Yeah, that's a very sociopathic, narcissistic, sociopathic kind of thing of like, I will constantly tell, it's a very jokery. Like, you know, it's just all- Yeah, tell stories, you're the center of attention.

He's like, every time it's different. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so it's also possible that his childhood, while, you know, it's got a little bit of trauma associated with it, with the whole, you don't know who your father is, your mom and your parents lied to you. This next part, this next chapter in her life

throws doubt into all those seeds because, like I said, in 1950, she met a man, they started dating, they would marry in 1951, and very shortly thereafter, Ted would be adopted by John Bundy, and then that's where he gets the last name Bundy. Can I ask you a question? I can-

Most of the stuff that we know about Ted Bundy's past with his parents and grandparents or whatever, is that secondhand sources, or is this from Bundy himself? We, the stuff that's secondhand source from Bundy himself is the abusive aspect of it all. I feel like maybe that's an unreliable narrator. Right, oh absolutely. Maybe that's like, if you're,

because I think a lot of the time, people want to believe that something happened to a person to make them a psycho killer, but most often than not, there's just something in them that's broken. Yes, correct. That wasn't caused by anything else, and never addressed.

But because they have that sociopathic, like I know how to play people, right? They have that idea of narcissistic fantasy, that they can just tell you a thing and know that's what you want to hear to make you feel sympathy for them, even though it's just BS. So I feel like this is an unreliable narrator.

We may not actually know what happened to him. And that's what's so interesting, is that we don't effin' know. The other things, these aspects are true, like she left, she got married, she had kids, like that's all provable. That's all, just so people out there don't think that this whole thing is a giant problem.

It could just be that he's sociopathic, and there's nothing exciting about it at all. Right, absolutely. Well, one of the things people say is that Ted was just a monster born into the world. Like he was just fundamentally broken right away, and because at that time we didn't have the knowledge, or the know-how, or the even wherewithal

to treat mental illnesses, it was just left to fester and it became awful. It's weird to think about, but there are those people out there that you meet that you're like, fuck, you're just like mean as shit. You're just like a mean motherfucker. Or Joe, you meet somebody who's so clearly fake,

like you see, they're so fake, pleasant, and you just can see through that. The best, if you ever are like, what, Jesse, what is a narcissistic sociopath? Give me an example. The best example of the tendency, I'm not saying this is the person, but the tendency is if someone,

let's say you're in a relationship with someone, and they constantly badger you, and belittle you, and criticize everything you do, and they're always on your case the entire time, and then you finally speak up, and their response is to be like, oh my, like you're acting crazy, like why are you getting worked up over this?

That's that tendency of like, I'm setting you up because then you think you're the problem, and they're just like controlling you. It's all manipulation. Yes, it's about manipulation, it's about using your emotions against you, but also the fact that they can never be wrong. Right?

It's that kind of thing, it's that like combination, that's like a little small example, there's many more things, trust me, but that's like a little, that's a narcissistic sociopathic tendency. I think a lot of people have that aren't that, but it's like, that's the gateway drug to me.

Yeah, you're not wrong, you're not wrong. In this period of his life too, the 1950s and on period, we're gonna start to see as well his fascination with like very particular kinds of women, and it starts with his mother, which isn't that surprising for a serial killer like this. So in 1951, after she met John Culpepper, Culpepper, Johnny Culpepper Bundy,

God, names in the 50s were wild, who was working as a hospital cook. He would then marry in 1951, and Ted would be adopted by John Bundy, therefore inheriting the last name Bundy. Eleanor and John would actually go on to have four separate children of their own during that time, which some believe feeds

into Ted's selfishness with his mother, because now he's no longer the only child, he's sharing all this attention and love with people who are, there is evidence that Ted believes that they are not as deserving as him because he came first, but either way, he didn't seem to enjoy his siblings all that much. What was the stitch?

Were they happy and functional? Everyone else in the family was, he withdrew himself, that's like the narcissistic part, he withdrew himself, because he's like, they're not focusing on me, and then he became envious of the relationship that the real kids had. You're not a real dad, kind of vibe.

Yeah, and it's funny, because John, from all we can see, John tried to be a good stepfather. He had four children of their own, but he would constantly try to include Ted, bringing him on family camping trips, bringing him on fishing trips, or doing whatever it is that they could to make him feel included.

But Ted, being either narcissistic, or psychopathic, or just straight jealous, would always, always stay distant. If he could stay at camp, he would. If he could stay far away from them and not talk and have family conversation, he would. He would never engage himself fully only as much as was necessary.

I don't know, again, I don't know as a person what that would be like to feel like you're part of a family that isn't, the only real member of your family in your mind is your mother, but it does seem like John's part. But also then, that seems, man, that's the idea that your mom was your sister

up until you found out that she wasn't, and now you have to live your life with your sister mom, and she is going on, and then she married some other dude. Look, I'm not saying I'm a psychologist, but there's something edible about all this. There's like, definitely a Freudian thing happening. Yeah, something's happening here, it's crazy. But his outlook on the way that he

relates to his mom versus everyone else is definitely textbook something. I don't know what, but it's textbook something. Yeah, I agree, there's something clearly happening here underneath the lies of it all. And much like earlier, we now enter a period of his life that is much muddier and we can't really figure out fact from fiction, because another book was published

in 1994 by authors, Micod and Ainsworth. And the reason this was published five years after he died, but the reason this is so interesting is because the events and things that happened during his teenage years as in this book does not correlate to what is known and written by Ann Rule in her book. Because as Jesse said, most everything is coming

from an unreliable narrator at this point, his teenage years and what he did. So in the Micod and Ainsworth book, it's claimed that the reason, one of the big things that Ted did, the reason he was so distant at this particular time is because he had an obsession, an unhealthy obsession. This might sound familiar if you're ever listened

to Ted Bundy's interviews in the past before, but he had an obsession with porn magazines, detective magazines, or true crime novels that involved sexual violence in heaps and bounds. Now this is important because if you listen to some of the last interviews that Ted Bundy had before his life ended, he blamed everything that he did on porn.

Porn was the reason he murdered. Porn was the reason he was so violent, though mixing detective magazines and true crime magazines and pornography interlinked them in his mind so inseparably that the only way he could get off was by beating a woman senseless with a wrench in the woods to death because that's the only thing that got the man off.

Yikes. Yeah. It was inextricably, the one fact we do know is that his murders were inextricably linked with his sexual deviance. That is par and parcel for a lot of serial killers, but Ted Bundy is like the case to look at when you're looking at sexual deviances

and mental illnesses leading to murder and serial killing. Now, whether that's true or not, we're not sure because right before he died, he sent a letter to Ann Rule and he would write, quote, never ever read fact detective magazines and shuddered at the thought that anyone would. So he tells one author that he's obsessed with it and he tells another author that he never did.

What's real, what's not? Like Jesse said, narcissistic personality disorder anything to keep this you in the story, anything to keep people talking about you because now we, here we are in 2019 saying we've got information from this source and information from this source, but they're both coming from Bundy's mouth

and so we don't know what's a lie or what not. That's the sociopath part, Rhys. Right, exactly. I do it because I enjoyed it. There's no reason behind it. He just does it because he's like, dummies. Look what I can do, yeah. Yeah.

It keeps him the center of attention and it keeps the crowd talking about him at the very end of it all. During his teenage years what he did tell the other two authors from the book from 1994 is that he quote, chose to be alone as a kid unquote because he couldn't understand relationships. He would claim in this interview

that he had no sense of friendships or how they worked. That feels like an actual truth. That's socio, yeah, that's sociopathic right there. Not understanding other humans. Yeah, oh, absolutely. I don't think anybody would tell you that this man is not a sociopath and it's not like every sociopath is like this.

But the fact is- Oh, yeah, no, absolutely not, by any stretch. But the fact is that there's a capacity for this type of behavior that is totally like, not justifiable, but at least understandable from a perspective of the average person. It's like, yes, they don't really see anything outside of themselves as real.

Correct, yeah, everything is like a calculation. How do I appear normal to these people while I'm talking to them? Yeah. And don't even pretend like most people have some sociopathic or narcissistic tendency. You kind of have to be slightly narcissistic. Oh, if you're in this industry,

you can well have something going on, that's for sure. Not me. You know what, Alex, out of the three of us? Yeah. Alex, just by saying not me, you fall under the narcissistic idea of pompous and arrogant demeanor. You three are opening up the audience

to dissect our personalities. I'm all about realness, baby. I get that enough in YouTube as it is. I keep it real, 100%, my heart's on my sleeve. You know, that's how I like to play, baby. The opposite of a man of mystery, and by that, I do that somehow. I believe that's the sociopathic idea

of failing to conform to norms. You keep being too real, Alex. Yeah, you know why? Because Danny's is better. That's why I don't conform to norms. Damn. I don't care how good that honey mustard sauce is. Honey mustard is God's gift.

But Danny invented the goddamn grand slam. Let's be honest with ourselves. Yeah, but isn't all that good? Let's be honest, moons over my hammy. You guys. Dude, you can't be like, Danny's is amazing for its grand slam. That's like saying a triple A baseball player

for the Pawtucket Red Sox is incredible because he would hit one grand slam during the triple A league. It's not exactly the same kind of grand slam. They use the same name. They're both supposed to be spectacular. They're right, right? The real tragedy of Danny's

is the eradication of the breakfast Dagwood from history. That was the best sandwich at Danny's. If you are old like me, you will remember it. If you went to Danny's all the time, like you will remember it. I put these two on the same level. So who, what's your preference? Denny's or Waffle House?

See, it's rough because we don't have Waffle House. I don't either. Yeah, I love Waffle House, but I got to, I have allegiance to Denny's. You're your ally to Denny's. It's the roadside diner that travels with you. You know what I mean? There's always a Denny's.

You can always have a super bird. It depends on where you live. There's always a Waffle House. That's true. It's the same thing, but I, you know, I just don't have that brand allegiance. Coke V Pepsi, who knows? Moving on.

You know, who else does it have an allegiance to anything Ted Bundy? Because according to his classmates, while we believe to be true about his inability to connect, all those classmates said that Ted Bundy was well known and well liked, which similar to Dahmer kind of fits because you learn what people react to, what people like, and then you just hone it.

Become that person and that way you blend into the crowd. It's not surprising completely, but it's still interesting that, you know, that's definitely the thing too. Like Ted is telling these stories, but I genuinely believe he's sprinkling in facts here and there that way you can go back and look and be like, well, he's telling the truth about this.

So maybe he's telling the truth about this, but this can, you know, it just keeps the conversation going. But that's, you know, something that's interesting. It's also important to know, and we'll talk a little bit about this later, it's believed by some that he already had committed his first kill at this point.

That we have no evidence. Whoa, of what? He was 14 and killed an eight year old girl. What? An eight year old girl goes missing around the time he's in high school and around the area, nobody finds her. And it's believed that Ted had his first kill at that point.

But we don't know anything about that. But we don't know, we have no way to prove it. No way to prove it. He never, you know, has never admitted or whatnot. But to keep in mind that he, you know, this man is by no stretch, even at this young of an age, innocent. He very well could be already well on the way

to becoming who he will be. Did he do any of the like textbook stuff? Did he do any of the like animal mutilations? Not that we know of, like Dahmer we know. He did a lot of animal mutilations. Bundy, we don't know. The only thing we know that happened to Bundy during his kind of high school years

is that he was arrested at one point for a potential robbery theft in auto and auto theft. Grand Theft Auto, rather. What? Wait, he had a record? But those were, they were removed at the age of 18. Oh, cause he was under 18. Oh yeah, that's the thing.

So he could have just been fucking around one night, but we don't know. We don't know. Yeah, it apparently it was customary, and maybe it still is customary in Washington, to remove criminal records of people with minor charges. Most states, minor charges, GTA. Here's my question.

Do you think- It was suspicion of it, not fact. Oh, okay. I was about to say, do you think because he got away with all of this stuff that it only emboldened him to be like, well, the police can't do anything to stop me? Like that kind of thing? Well, we certainly know that helped later on.

Like the amount of times he'd got pulled over and just with his words, while he had all of his murder tools in his trunk. And I think one time a woman in his trunk and the cops like, all right, have a good one. Wow. He was just like, I'm a genius. And he really did think of himself as a genius.

That is, that's so freaking obvious. But that's all we know of his teenage years. After he goes into high school, that's all we know. He maybe had a murder under his belt at that point. Is there a case for this 14 year old girl other than that she went missing? Like is there like- No, that's a Bundy.

There are people out there who go, no, that's Bundy, but there's not enough evidence out there for it to be a consensus that it's Bundy. It's just, it fits the timeframe. And that's kind of all we have, the timeframe and the location. And that's all we really have. Nobody ever found the girl?

I actually don't know if they found her body, but if they did, it wasn't enough. It wasn't enough to pin it on him. Yeah, it's wild, it's wild. But then we go into his university years, where we claw and climb ever closer to his first actual kill. And where I believe Bundy learned

the most important tools of his serial killer belt. And that's how to work a crowd, how to blend in, and law. He learned the law inside and out. After graduating in 1965, we would see Ted Bundy head to the university, or should I say the Pudget Sound University. But it wasn't long before that he was transferred

to the University of Washington in 1966 to study, Chinese. What? We're gonna go study Chinese. In 1967, he would start his first real relationship with a person known to us as Stephanie Brooks. They shared a common interest in the past time of skiing, and it makes sense being out in Washington.

But she came from money where Ted definitely did not. Is that like a pseudonym that she uses because she dated Ted Bundy? Yes, okay. During this time, he would befriend an old woman by the name of Beatrice Sloan, a regular at the yacht club that Bundy worked at during college.

So remember how I was talking about, what's his name earlier? John Worthington, Jack Worthington. Jack Worthington. Beatrice Sloan is like the lady version, Jack Worthington. Yes. She walks in an hour later. Beatrice Sloan.

Yeah. Here to meet Jack Worthington? Yeah, that's the like lusty divorcee name. The lusty divorcee name. That's great, actually. Man, Beatrice is just not a name anymore. I know, I missed that name. That's a good name.

What do you think of when the word Beatrice, I have a very specific looking woman that comes to mind when I hear Beatrice. What do you, what do you see? I see like the lunch lady, like she's in her 60s. She's got the whiskers on. No, that's a Doris. That's a Doris?

No, that's a Beatrice to me. Beatrice has like a flower hat. Yeah, Beatrice has Doris somewhere in and on her. And like a- That's a Doris to me. No, Doris is like, all right. That's like an asshole. Yeah.

Beatrice has like a, like a re, like she's really sweaty cause she's wearing like, of like whatever the opposite of a sexy dress is. Afghan quilts, like five Afghan quilts are on. Yeah. God damn. Well, it's during this time that our dear lady Beatrice would hear a lot about Ted, actually,

because Ted found a comfort in Beatrice. Something that I guess you could consider akin to maybe even a therapist or someone that he trusted enough to open up to, at least that's what we're told. It could all be lies to make her feel comfortable because according to her, Ted opened up a lot about his social life,

what it was like to be at school. And it's where we hear a lot about how he, Ted didn't believe to be, to understand relationships, at least apparently. Again, we don't know what's lie and what's fiction, but they grew close enough that our dear Beatrice would hook up our dear old murderous Bundy with a job at the Olympic Hotel,

a job that literally lasted a single month. He would drop out of school very shortly thereafter in 1968. So that's like three years in school? That's about three years of his, yeah. So in 1965, he went to Pudgett. He transferred to the university in Washington in 66. He started dating somebody in 67 and in 68, he dropped out. Okay.

But there's more to his university life than that. After the Olympic Hotel job, where he would begin to work with the Rockefeller's presidential campaign, being a model young Republican, before moving on to being Arthur Fletcher's driver and bodyguard while he campaigned for the Lieutenant Governor for Washington,

Bundy heavily got himself in politics at this time and would eventually see himself as a politician in the future. What? What he saw in these people in the Republican convention during this time, he saw a lot of himself in. Because at the time,

politics was all about faking niceness to manipulate people. And that's still very much. At the time, yeah. That's gone now. So what you're saying is Ted Bundy was a Republican because he saw a lot of himself in the Republican party? Yes, at this time he did. Which is, you might be allowed, that's weird,

but there's another serial killer that did the same thing, not only worked for campaigns, but met the first lady of the Republican party at the time. Do you remember the killer who wore the clown's face? Gacy, really? The man?

Yes. He met. John Wayne Gacy, met the first lady. He was heavily involved in his local political situation on the Republican side. He was very heavily in looking into politics all while he was murdering young boys in his basement and hiding them in a crawl space.

Like, it's crazy. That's woof. That's woof.com. Woof.com. I can't remember what year is Gacy operated in. I wanna say it was their late 60s, early 70s. I don't remember off the top of my head though. But again, during this weird hotbed

for serial killer activity, in 1968, Bundy would go to the Republican National Convention in Miami as a Rockefeller delegate, where Rockefeller would get trounced by none other than Nixon. Later that year, Fletcher would also lose his bid. And shortly after that, Brooks would dump him because he was immature and, to her, lacked ambition.

So during this time, Ted Bundy saw so much happen that was going well for him in about three or four years. And then all in a few months during 1968, his relationship, the National Convention, the bid, the people who he was working for, all of that crumbled away beneath him. She thought he had a lack of ambition for getting into politics?

I guess so. But the most important part, the reason that she claimed that she dumped him, the biggest reason she dumped him, but that she had, I quote, and this is from Andrew Rule's book, The Stranger Beside Me. She had a, quote, niggling suspicion that he had used people, unquote.

She had the idea that he was kind of... That, though, the reason, one of the reasons she dumped him, if not the biggest was because that Ted used people. Now, again, we don't know if that revisionist history on her part, after she learned the truth, or what have you, and just wanted to seem like, hey, I saw it coming from a mile away or not. We don't know.

But it's not necessarily impossible to see through the ruse if you're kind of aware of that, especially if you're hanging out with politicians all the time. Politicians see through that shit because they're doing that shit. That's just what they do. So who knows, it's very possible. But the woman that he had a relationship with,

the woman he would use as the model for many of his kills, come the future, just left him. And the thing that was perpetually, like throwing him into politics collapsed beneath him. It's also postulated that, should the politics thing not fall apart and things went well, Ted Bundy, very possibly, could have been a sociopathic politician instead,

that he could have used his quote unquote evil gifts to further himself in the political world. Just to rise and be famous, because it's very clear what Ted Bundy wanted, especially at this time, was to be the center of fucking attention. So was this the chick that he was obsessed with? Yes.

Stephanie Brooks. Just dumped. Yep, this is the one that dumped him and would become, like I said, the model to his murder. Gosh. This is later on. Psychiatrist Dorothy Lewis would pinpoint this year as probably quote, the pivotal time in his development.

But he would note that in 1960, we would note in that 1968, that 1968 didn't drive him to murder by itself, but it just helped kickstart it at all. You could see it as the lynchpin or the hair trigger that set him down the path. It wasn't like it wasn't fucked up before that, but. Right, exactly.

It was just the thing that was enough to break him completely. But if Ann rules to be believed, the most important piece is that in early 1969, he went and found out his true parentage. So then there's the story by Ann Rule that his true parentage was hidden until now. But again.

So he was like 23 once. Yeah, but again, this does not mix with Ted's story that he found out as a kid. So we don't fucking know. Because it's. Right, this is, it's all unreliable. Yeah. Exactly.

So we'll blast through some of this very quickly. In late 1969, though he began to date Elizabeth Klobfer, that didn't last very long. In 1970, Bundy would re-enroll into University of Washington as a psychology major, which we know is true. He quickly became an honor roll to student and was well regarded by his professors.

It's also claimed that after 1969 and going into the college in 1970, he would cut off contact with his parents at least until later when he would eventually reconnect with his mother because the mother was the one thing he always had time for. His brothers and his sisters and his adoptive father would never hear from him,

at least for a long, long while. This next part, the 1969, the 1970 part, this is where we see Ted, at least in my opinion, start to refine himself as how he would go about things. Because after he's learning about psychology as a psychology major in 1970, he also had taken a new job in Seattle. What that job was, was a suicide hotline crisis center

where he would meet and rule. What? Who was the author of The Stranger Beside Me? Wait, so she knew him before he was a murderer? That's the big twist. This book was written and it's called The Stranger Beside Me because she befriended Bundy during the suicide hotline years.

And it's one of the reasons a lot of what she puts forth is hard, you know, that stuff that comes right from Bundy is hard to believe because she's getting some of this stuff during the time where Bundy is the peak lies. Anything that comes out of his mouth, anything that's said about his past or history, it's impossible to know what's true.

But he met and ruled who was also a former police officer and at this point an aspiring true crime writer. She would describe him as, quote, kind, solicitous, and empathetic. So he was talking people down from killing themselves on the phone? Yes, but also maybe it's all, so there's another theory out there

that also during this time, this is where Ted started to get the itch and the hots for controlling the lives of other people. Well, for a while controlling how people saw you, relationships, manipulating things to your ends was empowering. Now Ted Bundy was getting a taste of what it was like to hold the power of life in his hands.

Even if it was only over the phone, because at this time, you're not getting listened into on everything. There's privacy there. You could talk to people and talk them down or talk them into doing it. It just depends on how he was feeling that day. But this went on for a while.

We don't know if he had anybody talked into killing or not, but all we do know, according to Ann Rule and others, is that he was actually very good at his job. He was excellent at talking people down and helping people find the light and that there was a genuine, he was genuinely good at his job at this point when he wanted to be good at his job.

That is so fucking like fucking scary. Right? Imagine that. You just have the camera. There's a movie being filmed. It's dim lighting and the camera starts out far back and it just slowly zooms in and all this chatter melts away

while you just hear a dead voice to Ted Bundy talking to somebody who's crying and desperate to jump off. That's like the opening to our movie. That's awesome. If I was suicidal in 1970 and I was talked down by some dude, I would be like, was that Ted Bundy? Like for the rest of my life. Right, now you think about it.

Like, oh my God, Seattle area. Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy. But he would be good at his job and he held this job for some time and he befriended Ann Rule there, which is, again, also something important to note is that there are out people out there,

naysayers or people who maybe throw doubt on the stranger beside me because literally during this time, she was an aspiring true crime writer and eventually she realizes she has one of the most prolific serial killers at the time and for all time she knew for years just kind of put in her lap.

That's just a ticket to success kind of prewritten for her. So who knows, obviously out there, but I put at least a good chunk of faith into her book, into her encounters. In 1972, he would then graduate from the University of Washington and would join Governor Daniel J. Evans' re-election campaign, mostly just following Daniel's opponent

as sort of like a PI kind of getting the scoop on his opponent and bringing him information that he could use to help him secure the seat. And after Daniel succeeded and ended up re-securing his seat, Bundy would move up and be hired as an assistant to the chairman of the Washington State Republican Party, once again, starting to find success and rebuild what he was hoping

would become his life later on. In 1973, he even rekindled his relationship with Stephanie Brooks, even though he was still dating Klopfer while on a trip to California with the Republican Party. Neither woman was aware of it of each other at the time and he was playing both fields. And this is where he starts to try and prove things,

not only to himself, but more importantly, to those around him. All this while, he's rekindling that relationship with Brooks not because he wants to date her again, but to tell and prove to her that he is worth her and her time and her energy, only to ruin that relationship shortly thereafter. But in 1973, he would enroll in the UPS Law School

while courting Brooks still. The relationship had been growing closer and closer with Brooks, even introducing Bundy as her fiance multiple times to her friends and family. Then, out of nowhere, suddenly in January of 1974, he cut off all contact with Brooks. He did not return her phone calls or write her butt back. After a month, Brooks finally managed to get him on the phone

and when asked about what happened, he just calmly replied, quote, Stephanie, I have no idea what you mean. And then hung up. What the fuck? That was the last time she would ever hear from him. Oh, that's manipulative as shit, right? Like, you just cut the wire a month

and that's just him saying, fuck you. He proves to himself that he can do it. He can manipulate people and he can cut them free and not give a goddamn shit all he wants. To form in one of the many writers of the books, he explained, quote, and this comes from his mouth. I just wanted to prove to myself that I could have married her if I wanted to.

Jesus. End quote. By April of that year, Bundy began to skip classes at UPS just as women began to disappear in the Pacific Northwest. Oh my God. The first murders would begin and this would be the story of Bundy's.

Many, many years of murdering a confirmed 30 women, all who have a striking resemblance to those that he manipulated and wanted to control over over the years of his life. Confirmed 30. Confessed two at least. Fuck. That's so many.

And this is where we're gonna leave episode one. And episode two is gonna be a little bit darker, so prepare yourselves. We're gonna be talking about some of his methods, how he did it, all that stuff, leading up to his final arrest. And then we'll talk about how, you wanna say why Lee he was,

but I wanna just say how incompetent they were. Because this is at a time where, if you were, if you claimed to be your own lawyer, they would let you out of your cell and let you go to the library to look at and read law books. Like that happened. And that's how he got out. It was just so easy.

But we'll talk about that in a couple episodes time. For now, that's how Bundy was brought up. Now we'll talk about Bundy the monster next time. Do I have you hooked boys? I'm hooked. Are we back in? I'm back in true crime. I always get interested in reading

about serial killers, but it's always kind of a weird feeling because I feel weird getting like interested in it. Well, yeah, I feel you, but it's one of those things where you gotta realize the reasons you're interested aren't because you think he's cool. Right.

You're interested because you wanna, like for me, it's all about like that mindset to understand him so alien. It's impossible to really understand, to not have real relationships with people and to be okay doing the things he's done because there's just a disconnect there between him and his own humanity

that just doesn't exist. This man doesn't have any capability to feel human. He believes him to be better than that. So we'll talk about the horrible things he did last time and where the connections to his past might be. That's where we're gonna leave this episode. Thank you for joining me gentlemen. Damn.

Back into the world of true crime. All right. And on that, let's chill. One last time on that dower ass note. Please. Hey everybody, we're doing a friggin' live show and I'm so excited. This is my first, my personal first,

like live show that's not a convention. So please come and scare the hell out of me and make me nervous. October 30th, 7 p.m., all ages. Chilluminaudipod.com, go get your tickets. Seats are limited. We're gonna be laughing and having a good time, talking about something specific

to the New England, Massachusetts area. I'm very excited. And who knows what else we've got gonna be, we've got going on there. More details as we have them. Other than that, it's gonna be a great time. Please come say hi to us, grab a drink with us. We'll have a great, great time.

I will drink every beer. Somerville. Every beer. I will drink. I will watch him. And enjoy every minute of it. Jesse, more than anyone in my life, I've run into you at five in the morning

and just been like, what are we doing here? I'll have a car. So I won't be drinking that heavily because I'm in the area, so I'll be driving. So, but I'll have a couple drinks that night. You love to see it. You love to see it. I do love to see it.

I do love to see it. Thank you for joining us, guys. As always, if you wanna talk about the show, I read it, our subreddit's dope. It's poppin' off, Luminati Pod on the subreddit. Go check that out. Same name over on Twitter if you wanna talk to us. That's where I get like instantly,

a lot of the weird news is just the subreddit where people tweet at constantly. It's so great. As always too, if you wanna tweet at us personally, you can find me at Mathis Games. You can find Jesse at Jesse Cox and you can find Mr. Alex at at Fossiana A. If you just wanna tell us sweet dope stories.

And is there anything else we need to pump? Pimp, I'll go check out our merch. Bring merch, we'll sign all the merch if you bring it to the show. Yeah, go for it. Buy hats, buy shirts. And we might have something a little limited there as well. So keep yours out for that.

What's that website again, Mathis? ChilluminatiPod.com Love to hear it. I love you, Alex. Love you too, man. Sweet. Thanks for listening, guys. We'll be back very soon, sooner than usual,

with the next part of Ted Bundy. And we'll see you next time. Peace. Goodbye. I'm not gonna say I love you. I love you, Jesse. It's okay if you don't love me. I love you too.

It's just like we were having a moment. You know what I mean? No. We were having a moment. You can join that moment. I don't wanna. I mean, it's not like that. That's fair.

I'll give you the camera. Goodbye, everybody. Ha ha ha ha ha. Dear Truckin' A. Wanna talk torque? The Tundra's forceful twin turbo V6 will blow your mind. The Tacoma's got bite and a taller suspension

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