Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 10 - Tamam Shud

Episode Date: August 1, 2018

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See site for details. That's fine. That is the intro now, everybody. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in. f But before we dive into the weird because I know there's a lot of people who are really excited that we're getting going back to something more Weird and leaving true crime crying behind for a tiny little little while here We got a shill we have to shill we have merchandise everybody

Something we haven't really we haven't talked about in an episode, but you guys were asking for it We've got a t-shirt now over at the yeti.com slash. It's really cool It's awesome, and it glows in the dark, which is even better in like only a little bit of the parts the lowest Yes, in the dark the logo glows in the dark where the words do not so when you're in the dark you can rep in us no matter What it's it's awesome? It's 20 bucks over at the yeti you can search for Chiluminati logo or the yeti.com slash product slash Chiluminati Dash logo and if you work at the yeti, and you would love to send Alex a shirt Please do that because he would love one. You know what that goes for all three of us. I think

We could spend our hard-earned money on our own t-shirt or we could beg for free this Love you know what? I love freebies. Yeah, I think we all love freebies. Yeah But other than that, um, I don't think there's anything else for us to shill other than if you love our show Rate us seven five stars on iTunes and let us know over the subreddit how much you love us I will be we'll be doing a full-on non mini mini-soad Shortly thereafter. I'm gonna be over in LA with these two boys cuddling up under some blankets hot chocolate and the in the heat wave I didn't agree to any of this. No hold on hold on what we're gonna be up in hot chocolate Yes, and I can like strip poker and one to switch right great

And I and then yeah exactly and then when we get under the covers. I can play footsie with you guys But with both of us yeah one you're gonna be on the like I'm gonna have you know that's two feet Yeah, it's possible one of you on the right a lot or we could sit all facing each other in a weird triangle with our feet in The center and we can just you know have a good time that way some sort of like feet tickle cult right Yo tickled on HBO now watch that right away if you like weird things It's it's the it's the documentary about the the like weird online tickle videos Yeah, you just you just sparked something in my brain, and I was like tickled the movie so good

Sing yeah, oh you should definitely watch that agreed. I have never heard of this. Oh, man. Let's just go don't even Don't look at don't look about it. Don't read it up Oh, don't even watch the trailer the trailer gives away too much. Yeah, just go in blind, and you'll be like what? I'm gonna so good. There's stuff on the internet that'll still surprise me is what you're saying. Yes, a hundred percent. Yes interesting All right, so today I Thought that since we were Coming off of a serial killer Story and returning back to the weird that I would make sort of a missing link

Story for you guys sort of the archaeopteryx of Weird stories if you will between true crime and weird paranormal stuff again This is the weirdest case ever instead of a serial killer. We're gonna talk about a body today And the thing that's so weird about this case is that you can look at it So closely under a microscope and out and after doing a lot of research like I found that like two guys really really have just like gone over every moment of this case with a fine-tooth comb and It's still a mystery like the core questions here are still completely

Unanswered even today as people are still working on this. It's crazy. This is called the Taman should case or the Tammam Should case have you guys heard of this? No, never I want to say the only reason this sounds familiar is because when we first got together and started Talking about what we're gonna do with Chiluminati topics You might have brought it up and I like did some minor looking it up because it sounded really cool But other than that, yes, I don't remember this that's excellent I'm so glad that I get to tell you about this But before we start I just want to address the Taman shoot Tammam shoot thing

Tammam shoot is a phrase in Farsi that means like Ended or finished or something like that and Everywhere that that phrase shows up in this case. It is spelled correctly Tammam T-A-M-A-M Okay, okay But for some reason it is widely known as Taman with an N because like at some point in some newspaper somewhere somebody messed up and It's still like the name of this case in articles today, but that's crazy. It's called the Tammam should case not the Taman Should case that's nothing

Just a little PSA at the beginning for people who little facts Sure, right up top. I didn't follow you at all, but I assume you know what you're talking about It's just the spelling they just somebody put an N there instead of an M And I just wanted to like let everybody know that because it doesn't make any sense Anyway, I'm gonna start. I said it was about a body We're gonna start the timeline of the night the body was found here. We go on the evening of November 30th 1948 at Summerton Beach near Adelaide, Australia. Okay, we're in Adelaide, Australia

This is a place that like I forget who said it But somebody said that it would be like the perfect setting for like a Stephen King story like that type of town like a sleepy beach town Cool yeah, that me we got me so far we got a sleepy beach town out in Australia where Wilderness wants you dead. Yes. Yes, but in this case, who knows what wants what dead? Oh Mystery yes John Lyons and his wife are walking home and they notice a man who is slumped against a wall Next to some steps leading to the crippled children's home. That is what it is called. Sorry and They assume he's just drunk and they like walk past him. They see this guy just slumped there

But both of them in their statements swore that they saw him Raise up his right arm and then drop it again in the sand So at the time that they were walking by in the evening They saw a man who was by all accounts alive. Okay, and then another couple Who are not married? They were called Gordon Straps and Olive Neal They also see this guy and it's between like 7 30 and 8 p.m And this time these guys even said in their statement that they joked with each other at the time that they were like that guy Looks like he's dead. Ha ha ha ha ha, right? How funny. Yeah, dead man

And that's pretty much all there was at the time That's all that's pretty much all the scuttlebutt was but by that morning the next day at 6 30 a.m They find him dead by two guys who are who've got a horse with them. They're like doing some horse riding business on the beach I don't know what goes on in Australia and then John Lyons again The first guy who like went back out because he wanted to go swimming and he was like, oh shit. It's the same dude He's still there so he like went over there to check it out, too And so they all kind of like showed up and saw the body at around 6 30 a.m. Okay, okay What they found when they looked at the body was like a dude who was like extremely well-built

Clean shaven like sort of like they call it like a frame looking body like a wedge shaped like Michael Phelps ass like Swimmers body Incredibly incredibly attractive is what you're saying. Yeah, I think it means fit, but okay sure I mean a pothead gonna be who doesn't deserve to be on the Wheaties box No Got him No, so he was he was he was like a pretty like jacked looking dude clean shaven nicely dressed in his suit and tie But no hat

He was laying back with his head against like a seawall his legs were extended out in front of him and his feet were crossed Almost like he was like laying there and he like died in his sleep almost if you can imagine, okay, right? He had an unlit cigarette resting on the right collar of his coat and He also had an unused train ticket. He had a used bus ticket He had an aluminum comb, which is like not a thing you'd see in Australia so much as you would in America a Half empty pack of juicy fruit, which like an aluminum. I don't okay. I'm just gonna let you keep going The point the point of the comb is just that it's from America instead of Australia, which is notable And then like same thing a half empty pack of juicy fruit, which like in Australia at the time

It was like very strange to see an adult chewing juicy fruit Even though in America was common and then a quarter full box of matches army club cigarette packet With seven cigarettes, but they weren't army club cigarettes. They were like seven cigarettes from a different brand Then the then the package said which was like weird, right? Weird, yeah But nobody knew who the hell he was because his demo records weren't on file his fingerprints weren't on file anywhere He was carrying no government ID of any kind no wallet and all the labels had been removed from his clothes Everything had been removed. He'd be like scrubbed. Yeah

He looked about 45 years old. He had they said he looked like English ish I don't know what that means exactly like a white dude. I guess he was like ginger And he was really like again peak physical condition but a weird thing was that his toe shape like the way his toes like rested and He and the way his high is his calf muscles were like really high up on his leg It looked like they said that either he wore high heels all the time or he was like a ballet dancer That is like that's the only weird specific thing That's like the only sort of type of thing that would cause that type of musculature

It's not like normal for a human to develop their muscles that way, right? Yeah Also when he went into his autopsy He has a spleen that is three times the normal size of a spleen All right. He also had notable liver damage And they noticed two very specific genetic defects with this guy one Is that he's missing both of his lateral incisors his teeth like It's like his two front teeth and then like two sharp teeth and that's it. Huh like pretty pretty like remarkable

Genetic thing that's different and then he had another one where the upper hollow of his ear is Larger than the lower hollow of his ear, which is like really rare for humans It's like for white people like Caucasians. That's like a one to two percent thing like that. You're Yeah, you're the upper hollow is actually bigger than the lower hollow Right. Yeah. Yeah. All right That doesn't seem important, but it will be important later. Tell me he's an alien I'm waiting for all this to come together because this is just you're listening off weird stuff Just just follow me. Just follow me. I'm on the adventure

I'm on the adventure, but I'm letting you know that everyone listening right now at home is like what the hell All right, let's keep going. I promise this will be worthy You say that and then it can be like and then the Beatles the end and I'm gonna be like People love the Beatles episode people love it. All right At one point in time I get so many positive comments on my instagram about that episode I'm lying at one point in time barbiturates and soluble hypnotics were mentioned as possible poisons That could have been used based on like the things that were wrong with his body

But also that's like a really big spleen. So that's like not Really that good of a thing also no foreign substances were actually detected in his body And other than just like people being like well, he looks like he was pretty weak and he died in his sleep maybe No cause of death was ever determined and no formal connection has ever been made between the body And the possibly living person that those people saw the night before You know what I mean? Like it probably was him That they saw there like a couple hours before they found his body, but there's no

Proof of it. If that makes sense. Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah Uh, okay, but a few weeks later They used you know, I said he had a like a train ticket that he didn't use Yeah, so they go back to the station where he got it and they found out that like he Left a suitcase checked At the at the train station Okay, okay And so he went there

Checked. Yeah, checked his bag bought a ticket and then never took the train. He didn't take the train But here's the thing that's crazy is that this everything in the suitcase also had all its labels removed And it was checked in at 11 a.m. The day before he was found dead See my initial knee knee jerk reaction is he sounds like A government agent of a sort who was was caught in the act and had to run off Right and like off himself more or less because it's his duty Yeah, super weird. Yeah. So inside is a bunch of clothes that have no labels Uh, the thing that they noted in the police port was that there was brown pants with sand in the cuffs

Which was weird and then a orange thread that also only came from america that actually was they found used on his clothes That he was wearing when they found him. So it actually is like a direct connection between the suitcase and the man Uh, they found a coat that's only available in america that wasn't even imported Uh Then a a shaving kit All that stuff's pretty normal for like maybe like a dude from america But then also there's something that was called like an electrician screwdriver Nobody knows exactly what that is

But that might be like an insulated screwdriver with like rubber around it Nobody knows and then a and then a table knife that that was sanded down with like a tool shop sander into a sharp weapon And a pair of scissors that was also sanded down using like shop materials Into a sharp weapon and then sheaths for both of those weapons that were made from zinc And then uh a laundry bag and a tie that had the name t keen on them K e a k e a n e Except also it was spelled k e a n somewhere else in the suitcase And I guess they figured out eventually that those were just like something that he bought

Second hand or something so that didn't really matter. So the but the point is it wasn't his name So he according to the station records the dude arrives in adelaide By overnight train from melbourne or sydney or port augusta He buys a ticket for the 10 50 a.m. Train to henley beach, which he then just misses for some reason and then 25 minutes later he leaves Towards the same area on a bus Like sometime later in the day Huh, uh, yeah The body they just like did their best to preserve it

Uh, they had somebody come in and make a like bust out of the body To like try and preserve his like living state look a little bit more before the body started to look weird Uh, there was interviews, but no official conclusions were ever reached in the like area of time surrounding the crime Okay, so that's where it stopped for a while It's pretty weird case right just yeah, sort of like maybe yeah like maybe a spy. Maybe something like that um But then it gets weirder Because after further investigation six months later by an expert microbiologist

Uh, this guy named john cleland First the dude noticed that the guys shoes were like super polished in a way that it looked like he would never Like set foot on a beach that night like it looks like he never walked anywhere, which is like Kind of weird because of some different eye witness accounts that we're pouring in about people that they saw But it's also weird because he was found on a freaking beach right uh, also This was like the thing that is so crazy about this Rolled up tight in his fob pocket, which is what they called them in australia Which is like your watch pocket

Which is like there's like your pocket and then there's that small pocket inside of your pocket that nobody ever uses Rolled up in there Was it jolly? Yeah, just a fucking doobie this dude was blazing it no this dude Inside was like a small piece of paper rolled up And in and on it printed not like written with hand, but like machine printed on it It said tamam should Which was ended or finished in farsi, right?

Right, so he's so in a way like he's done Yeah, so that was in his that was in his pants and eventually what people found out was that's the closing words Of a book of poetry that's like really popular kind of like uh, I don't know like that That like james franco book when james franco put out a book of poetry and a bunch of hipsters like bought it I didn't even know he put out a book of poetry. I'll be real with you. I didn't Yeah, whatever whatever it is. Whatever it is. I don't even know if it's a poetry book

I'm just saying it's like one of those books that like it was like trendy to buy Right for a while and it's called the rubayat of omar cayam. Okay, so this so this tamam should piece is from Like the end of that book And they like started reporting on that and then after a while a dude came forward Who to this day has maintained his anonymity somehow, huh? uh Even after coming to the police he came forward with a copy of the book

That he said he found in his car That he shared with his brother-in-law like around the time of the of the murder or whatever And they both just were like yo I don't know They just both kind of like assumed that the other person left it in the car You know what I mean? Yeah, like if you're sharing a car with somebody it's like, oh, it's this fucking book Like I'll leave it in there for a while But apparently it wasn't either of theirs

They like figured that out and then they looked at it and they opened it and they saw on the last page it was actually torn and the pay and the and the and the actual Like tamam should Like line was actually like taken out of that book And then so they got a paper expert to like compare it And it actually did come From that copy of the book that he found in his car

Which was like a big direct connection It was also a crazy clue because the back of their book also had like indentations like you know when somebody uh Writes a note on a notepad And then you they take the paper away, but you can like totally see what they wrote Yeah, yeah, you can do like if you wanted to like do a graphite kind of Trace over a piece of paper. You could see where what the bumps

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So So They There's conflicting reports on whether it was that or it was just written there But basically what it was was a phone number or two And five lines of an encrypted code With one line of the code crossed out Huh

See the more and more you talk the more and more it sounds like he was a government official of some sort like in in You know be fucking CIA or something along those lines I mean, that's what it sounds like, but it also sounds like if that was the case, right? Like this isn't this guy like the worst spy ever Well, does anybody know who he was? Did anybody ever figure out who this body was? Did did anybody ever ever discover his identity? Yes. He's that's the question I have I think that's the point is that wait, they did I thought you're about to say no See, I don't know where any of these stories go

No, no, no, no that no I know they have not discovered his identity because okay I thought you said yes, they definitely did because like the only thing I found when doing just while you're talking listening is like In 2011 there's some old evidence Point that he may be a man by the name of hc reynolds, but there's no Yeah, it never went beyond that and as of right now it's ongoing as of spring of 8 2018 So spring of this year. Yeah, some girl stepped forward and was like, I'm his granddaughter Yeah, yeah, I'll get we'll we'll get there. We'll get there. We'll get there. Yeah, yeah Like but if nobody actually knows who this man is then even if he's a shitty spy

He actually he did a great job because nobody knows who he is Well, right, but if you saw a real spy, right? Like you would expect him to have like a fake identity not like No labels like that's not a good way to Yeah, I mean, yeah, maybe I don't know it's interesting but keep keep going because here's why but here's why I don't think it's a spy Okay, well here. So hold on. So a bunch of people have tried and failed to solve the code, right? This is never this has never been solved But enough experts over the years have like looked at this thing and they agree that at the very least it does exhibit some sort of intentional pattern

And possibly that it even is a like ruby like a ruby Whatever they're called. I think a ruby is the name of like one of those poems Like a quatrain like it might be like a poetic quatrain gotcha gotcha gotcha but because of Just like police standards. This isn't like a mysterious part of this. I don't want everybody always reads into this type of stuff, but This copy of the ruby yacht was destroyed a long time ago Uh and no completely matching edition has ever been found

Based off pictures. I know somebody found a version that looks identical, but it's printed on different paper But part of the problem of this and why if this if this book is used as like the Key to a cipher. Mm-hmm like The thing that's frustrating about this is that at the time apparently this book was so popular That it was like regularly being bootlegged Okay, gotcha. So there's a lot of interesting out there Yeah, and also this this company that makes these that was making these editions of this book

Some of them some of the editions were like one One one book So it's like super frustrating Because it's like the perfect book if you were ever going to try and like You know Get rid of a book. It's like the perfect book Uh, yeah

But the phone number in the back did lead to a person who uh for a long time was just called jeston Okay There's a woman who claims Never to have met this guy Uh and while many conflicting things have been mentioned about her and her relationship If any to this dead guy as soon as she as soon as she was cleared of suspicion She asked for her name to be removed from all official files Which basically took her out of the story for like

a while Uh, but before we get to like modern day, I just want to look at like some of the like crazy theories because There's obviously there's a spy theory, so I'm going to just like talk about what that theory is There's also got to be an alien theory Somewhere some some people some people have said it I like went in and looked at the boards But like what it just boils down to is like his like dubious origin and his weird genes Right that he was maybe he was a hybrid of the greys and humans

Yeah, but based on evidence like the one good like strong kooky theory that I got was this one And this was like me just sort of like pulling a bunch of theory Pieces together and trying to like get one good coherent look this theory theory crafting. Yeah So this this is like all around an anti-spying initiative that was started against the soviets in 1944 Uh called operation venona Uh, and this was uh an american uh operation venono Apper operation venona

Bonanno crime family bonano, bonano Manamana What okay operation operation venona It's an it's an american it's it's an american operation Uh of like crypt uh crypt analysts and they discovered uh in 1947 of april 1947 They discovered a major major security breach Out of the russian embassy in cambera australia that was like leaked intelligence Like just radioing it out of the embassy just like straight up like secret codes

Totally just like got caught red-handed Uh, and it led to a ban of us classified intelligence, uh in australia for 1948 It was like so embarrassing for australia They just like totally fucked up Damn. Yeah, uh Like I said though, there's not like an official timeline for this spy theory. It's not like one unified theory, but here's just like some stuff Uh us assistant treasury secretary harry dexter white Uh suddenly dropped dead of a quote unquote digitalis overdose

Which is like a medicine. It's like a medicine overdose Uh, but it's the reason that he dropped dead of it was because he was identified as a spy from this uh investigation Uh, and then in 1945 there's another death of a guy named george sol haim marshal Who was found poisoned in sydney and it looked like a suicide And next to him was a copy of the rubyat of omar cayam and Uh, he also was killed by poisoning and you know Though no cause of death was ever determined the somerton man

May have been killed by poisoning Yeah, I remember I think I read that actually that that I think poison is their their best guess Yeah, but nobody again. Nobody really knows other than that. He probably just like stopped breathing while he was sleeping Nobody knows like what led him to that state. Um Another important element is that in questioning this woman. Justin who was the phone number lady She actually claimed to have given a copy of the rubyat To somebody it wasn't to this guy. It was to a guy named alph box hall Who's an ex military guy who everybody thought was the dude at first?

But then they found him and he was alive And he still had his copy Of the fucking rubyat that that girl gave that that girl gave him, huh? Which is like super weird because then where the fuck did this guy get his and why does it have her phone number in it? Yeah, there's a lot of just like weird Coincidences, but the reason that matters to the spy theory is because in 1978 Alph box hall was interviewed for a tv special in australia about the case And he said that before he met justin he had secretly been part of an intelligence unit

Though he denied any espionage connection with the summerton man and he kind of like tried to laugh it off Which I mean I don't blame him So, you know, it seems like, you know, maybe the spy theory is crazy, but it does bear mentioning that in 1994 John John Harper Phillips, who is the chief justice of victoria Chairman of the institute of forensic medicine. This isn't like some crazy doctor. This is like A real government doctor He reviewed the cause of death in the 90s and he said there seems little doubt about that it was digitalis

That was the type that was the type of poison. I was gonna say the poison that that they assumed, right? Yeah, okay So that's so that's this that's like the brunt of the the spy theory, but there's a few other Weird things that happened around this time that are also relevant that maybe Will stoke your curiosity or help you guys maybe form. I'm ready. I'm ready It's also interesting years after his 1949 burial. They buried him after a while once they gave up Uh, a couple years later flowers began appearing at the summerton man's grave Uh, after a while and police like Like noticed and they like question to woman who was leaving this the cemetery at the time

but She was like, I don't know who that guy is But somebody was leaving flowers there Uh, and around the same time that somebody was leaving flowers there There was a receptionist from the adelaide hotel Which was actually across the street from the railroad station where he bought his train ticket and left the bag, right? Uh, the receptionist came forward and she said that a weird guy was staying in room 21 or 23 For a few days around the death checking out on november 30th

And she said he spoke english and he had a small black case with him And that when she had an employee look inside the case he described what was inside as looking like a needle Huh wait, so she so the person staying in the hotel she's saying is possibly this dead guy Either the dead guy or somebody who was Tracking the dead guy, you know, it's just strange. It's just strange that he had a needle Like a like he had a black case with him and inside it was a needle. That's strange Uh In 1959 which was like 10 years later

Also a man came forward saying that on that night He saw a man in an overcoat carrying another well-dressed man along summerton beach on the night of november 30th 1948 But it's 11 years later Yeah, you know sure he can believe it. Yeah, what he's saying, but It still reeks to me of like government something of like Someone botched it and had like got off to buy another government or he offed himself before He'd got found out and maybe was thinking he was making other people safe by doing it Yeah, interesting that he's choose the beach for me who's hoping he was going to be washed away in the ocean never to be found

Again. Yeah, also 1959. There was an inmate and a prison in new zealand called waganui prison Uh It's a great prison name. Yeah, I'm going to prison. I want to go there. That sounds like a terrible prison It sounds like they kill you there like it sounds awful Uh This guy eb Collins said he knew who the guy was but he wouldn't say who it was That's easy to do. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know that that's okay It's just interesting that it was like the same year as the other tip and it was like

Just they didn't know about each other Also during the same documentary I was talking about earlier Uh Where box hall was interviewed A guy called paul lawson who was the guy who made The cast of the guy like the plaster cast He like got really cagey and he like refused to answer the question when Uh, somebody asked him if anybody had ever positively identified the body

He got like weirdly cagey about it and like didn't want to talk about it Uh, and so that's like where it was left for like a pretty long time But I heard about this case again like two years ago. So I'm going to give you like the like Latest and this is why I'm like on the fence about why if whether or not this guy was a spy. Okay Because this is just like too uncanny So other than this like one police officer Who's like from adelaide? But he didn't really work on the case at the time

But he like worked at the department at the same time as a lot of the people who did work on the case And since then he's like written a book about the case Uh, even though he still hasn't been able to name someone as who this guy is Um, there's another there's another person who's working on this case as well He's an engineering professor from university of adelaide in australia and his name is derrick abbott And he and his students he like uses his students to like Work on the case because he teaches them like how to like apply systems and stuff and they like started off by trying to crack the uh

You know the the code but he's been getting into all different kind like aspects of the case um But the thing that ended up being most important to him is that lady gestin again From the phone number, right because her house just so you know Uh is 400 meters away From where this dude's body is found So real damn close 1,300 feet like we're talking like you could just like run there Huh, yeah, uh, she always maintained that she had nothing to do with the case did not know the man involved

But there are multiple accounts of gestin who was also called jesse harkness and eventually joe thompson uh There was accounts of her being like very very weirdly evasive during questioning And not really wanting to talk about the dude or the case at all And then when they brought her back in to show her the the plaster cast Of the summerton man. She like Couldn't handle it. She like freaked out. She couldn't look at it. She was acting like she was gonna faint Uh, she was trying to downplay her emotions though. She was like pretending like she wasn't having a reaction

And while nothing is confirmed a lot of police officers around at the time said that it left them with the impression that she did know Who this guy was and that she was kind of not being honest interesting But there was nothing about Like the police couldn't do anything about it though because of the evidence like wasn't good enough Uh, and so it wasn't until much later when this professor from his college Like revisited this part of the case that anybody really like thought about her that much Uh, and by then she was already like dead for a long time

So so she she so he reached out to her son Who was also dead And found this guy robin who was actually born The year before the summer the summerton man was found dead so This is her son and because it's like a much more recent person to have lived Uh, there's a lot more about him, but also that's because his job is crazy. So

her son Was encouraged towards ballet by his mom And eventually he got so good at it that he became a working professional ballet dancer uh, and So that was the first thing that made This guy go like, huh? Because if you remember I said earlier that his calves were like crazy High up and stuff muscles. Yeah

And that like is like the mark of a ballet dancer But then also he looked at pictures of this dude robin thompson And he sees that not only is this dude missing both of his lateral incisors But he also has the same inverted ear hollows Maybe it's that This man was this woman's son or brother or something. Yeah, it seems it's it seems like it seems like This is this is her her kid her kid with this guy. That's what it seems like to me Uh, but this guy's dead

But his kids are alive and one of them is named rachel egan Who was because he was a dancer. She was completely given up for adoption and like just like Never knew who her parents were or anything Uh, but all through her life also was a huge like ballet fan ballet person Uh, but also ended up talking to dr. Abbott a bunch and like figuring out this story about like

these dance these these dancing people in the family and how her Great aunt joe because she actually was able to talk to this woman. Justin and uh Like she always got weird about this dude and anytime that the dude would come into the news She would like move away. She would like move somewhere new Like anytime that like the summerton man was back in the headlines and stuff. Uh, but eventually She's talking to dr. Abbott and after they talk for 24 hours, right dr. Abbott Proposes to her Wait, what? Yeah, and she accepts and they end up having kids together

Wait, what? Yeah. Yeah, wait, what? Yeah, they got married one day after talking to each other and it's fucking crazy And people accuse him like the the cop that I was talking about earlier The cop is like, yo that dude is trying to like lock down dna He is like trying to like This is this is crazy. Like this guy is like marrying his way into a family to lock down dna rights for this guy uh, so it

Muddies the waters a little bit like what the fuck ever went down with that But also like, you know, whatever. Maybe they're just in love. Who knows? Uh, but in february of this year, they were actually able to pull hair In february of this year, they were actually able to pull hair off of the the plaster cast And like get some actual usable dna Uh, and so now they've narrowed this guy's genes down to

unique signatures common to only one percent of people in europe and australia And steps are currently being taken to prove lineage between Rachel this guy's wife and the summerton man And even though they know that much about this guy They still don't know At all literally at all who the fuck he is at all anything about him literally any single one thing about him

And they don't know how he died and they don't know what the fuck the deal is with that code at all interesting And like i'm i'm telling you i looked at this case super close and i still have no idea there's no answer at all Yeah, i'm i'm i'm up like Baffled as like it's still he still screams to me It was one of two things government or like just family trauma of just like this doesn't it seem doesn't it seems so romantic for it to be a spy though?

Yeah, of course, right? You want that that spy story because there's that hook but the more i think like a little bit about it's like Maybe he was initially gonna run away from his wife and then decided that he was just gonna kill himself instead Or if he was a russian What if he was a russian ballerina? spy Who was coming to australia to dance in the opera? and

then He fell in love with a woman And they had a kid together And then he got discovered And so he decided to kill himself instead of getting discovered to protect to protect his family. Yes His secret family his secret family. Yes that that he it's that yeah It's that idea of like a spy falling in love with the locals and all that other nonsense It's interesting. I do remember you bringing this up again right when chluminati

We kind of formed it more or less and you were like oh can we cover this at some point? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's interesting. It's very very interesting because because there's no answer which is yeah, we still don't know anything Yeah, really It's just it just seems impossible that nobody would know especially if he's like a ballet dancer, right like especially if that's really what it is like How what does the deal with that like is that just an incredible coincidence that all like through two generations? There's like this huge ballet connection. Yeah, I don't know Is there a book about it? I'd actually like to read more. Yeah, if you look up the the cop's name Uh, what is his name?

his name is Jerry Feltas with a g Jerry Feltas He has a book that he wrote about this case that is just like breaks down Like every little aspect of it, but man like I tried so hard to like poo poo this case I tried so hard to be like oh, it's definitely this this one guy It's definitely this one explanation But I've never like this is that one murder case where you're like. Oh, there is no Answer like their body is there. They have it. It's buried in the ground. They know where it is

They got it. They have no idea who it is So weird Well, it just it seems like like I one of those cold case things right like a cold case episode Where someone down the line will uncover something related to this on accident And it will it will blow everything wide open or somebody will get married to This dude's granddaughter on purpose Yes, yo, yeah, yeah to lock down dna. Of course. Yeah, that's how it works I mean that is pretty weird though, right?

Like I think that's the weirdest part I feel like a whole marriage thing for the yeah, that's the weird part for me What is why like there's just so many questions as to why or It is pretty weird like if you listen to because there's they've they've interviewed these people before This is like a really famous. This is like an extremely famous case in us This is like the black dahlia of australia, you know, it's like there's like a romance to it in like the in the culture and Like they they've talked to both of these guys

They've talked to the the professor and the cop and the cop and the and this dude like used to work together on the case But then like something happened at some point where they like soured on each other and so when you listen to this dude talk about the professor he like Clearly is grossed out by him and like now now that I know that this dude like married his way like maybe into this guy's family it like There's not really like a good way like Unless true love exists Unless unless I'm like ready to say the true love exists

There's not a way that I can feel good about saying like oh, yeah, this is just like a love story Yeah, it's it's weird Fuck see now. I'm just sitting here. I'm like, well, I just want answers now. Yeah I mean like there's a code like another another theory about the code Maybe is that it's like a mnemonic device code and so it's like actually unbreakable unless you're the guy Oh Or maybe it's like a code that like maybe she knew only Yeah, it might be well past the point of us actually getting answers for that particular piece of the puzzle

Yeah, and it's also weird that like two main people in this case were able to like be anonymous Like literally this woman gestin was like anonymous for like a long time She was like am I am am I a suspect and they're like no then they're she's like Well, then I don't know what my business needs to be out in the open like please take it out Please take it out. Super defensive kind of thing And I guess and I guess like none of it was ever done Like above board either it's like all like on like gentlemen's agreement Same thing same. Yeah, same thing with the the dude who got the book

Uh in his car, which is also like a super weird part of the story because like Nobody knows there's a lot to this that doesn't Yeah, wait, okay. Nobody knows who that guy is like actually like this is like not like, uh, Like oh, there's one one instance of this story in one newspaper from a hundred years ago This is like but but how do we know any of any of this information from the story is true then What do you mean? Like if it all I'm do we have the book still the book the book was destroyed, but we found we found a

But I mean that's what I'm saying like every aspect of the story Seems like it could be falsified like every well, right, but but it is well documented like there's photography But there's no documents like there's photography. There's photography of the book So they know what it looked like and that's how they determine if the addition is correct. They you know The guy the guy with the book they have reports of talking to the guy And for some time the guy was reported as like a biologist Or as some type of scientist or a businessman

But like looking at it If I look at every source and I like really parse it out. That's like terrible That's like terrible police work and or reporting if you can say he was a businessman or biologist That's that's crazy That's only in newspapers in in the police work They his name is not Mentioned because he asked for it not to be which is like I guess the thing you can do if you're not a suspect in the crime I mean, I don't know the rules. I don't know how that works in australia

I just I guess I guess that's a thing you can do which like to me makes like no sense because if you can just convince the cops In the short term that you're not Like but you know involved what year is this again? This is the died in like 48. Yeah 48 So, you know, it's a long time ago and I guess there was It was a different time maybe this was like just the murder that shocked the nation level murder too Like this was like, you know, this this was like crazy Nothing like this had ever happened in this town before It's so bizarre

mostly because Everyone associated with it did the exact wrong thing Yeah, the thing that's really weird to me is that this woman like runs from it And I guess like in the end it could just be like a secret because like she married somebody else eventually like Within a year of this murder. She married someone else So, you know, like if you were thinking about it that way like maybe this guy Was never going to be the husband because she was already going to marry this other dude And it was an affair and they had a kid and she pretended like it was this guy's kid, you know, like it could be something like that

Yeah, I mean, I'm not willing to throw out the idea that it's as as mundane as as family trauma or family problems or whatever But there's still a lot to the case that just doesn't make sense like the tags being cut from all of his clothing and Right weapons weapons in his bags like handmade. Oh, yeah, like hand made like shaves and don't forget that And like it's made out of like a zinc like there's like the sheets that he made himself out of zinc zinc It's so weird. Yeah, damn, dude It's a hell of a story though. Yeah, I don't know like to me. This is so weird because it doesn't fit into any one Thing like he has like he's missing his teeth. He has like weird

Musculature like what's weird like where did this guy come from? Who is he? Why does he have American stuff like it's just it's all so crazy like, you know, other than him maybe being a military guy What real proof is there that he's a spy other than that? He's like Trying to hide his identity. Yeah, maybe he did it for her That's also true. Like you could always think back like maybe she was always dating somebody else and he was the side piece Maybe the yeah, maybe yeah, maybe the weapons. Maybe the weapons were there to make it seem like something weird on purpose Maybe he was planning on murdering here her lover. Yeah, you never know who knows. I don't know. Yeah It's interesting though. That's a fucking cool story and one that I would love to follow actually as time goes on

Yeah, if updates come down the road, we should definitely come back swing around to it and do some updates or something I will I will for sure let you know if anything happens with this because I actually obsess over this still to this day That's yeah, I mean again you brought it up Months months ago. Yeah about wanting to cover it. So If anything, please like if anything pops up, we should we should definitely do like a An update like segment on it Yeah, I I really I I really I really like would love to hear what you guys think about it too

Like there's a big rabbit hole to go down like this guy this guy this professor He has all sorts of resources about this on a wiki that you can like go look at and form your own theories I would love to see some of you guys look into that on the uh Subreddit. Yeah on the subreddit. Let us know what you guys Think happened Yeah, I mean I'm interested. It's what do you what do you guys think? What do you guys like in the end? My my mind still sits comfortably in some sort of government agent probably um

But I I'm I'm grasping at like what else it could possibly be I'm that's where my my mind is I'm picture. Yeah, I yeah I I'm on the exact opposite end of the spectrum that I think this is Just I don't want to say a normal Murder, but it it's just a normal person that's been blown out of proportion as people try to like come up with fanciful reasons for why this Why all the weird things are connected when they could just all be weird things that are unconnected Yeah, and you know if if you if it was like a suicide like a love related suicide

And then it became this like huge murder Like in in the country and like really what it came down to was you just like Totally screwing a guy over who fathered your child or something like that You know like you don't want that to be the like oh, it was just this It was just this shitty lady ruining this guy's life and him killing himself You know what I mean like that's just sad this is a sad way for it to end I personally however choose to believe that this was a moulin rouge rouge s glove story with a dancer with a small Hooker pistol in his garters

and a tale of espionage and submarines And poetry broken heart deaths and poetry and consumption. I get it. Yeah, and maybe some type of like some type of lizard People connection with the tea. I don't know. It's bringing the grays. That's fine. Yeah All in man when when there is not enough there to give you a proper answer fill it in with aliens Is always the go-to and people do this is not like a joke theory about like oh, no, I know dude Everything anything and everything paranormal is connected to aliens if you just look hard enough. Yeah, it's all there The truth is before you Well, alex that was uh

I man, I want I'm it was an intriguing story. I try to zig when When you expect me to zag I got zigged and zagged Something that you may said though that that actually Rows something that I wanted to bring up actually Before we close out the episode completely is um, you know how we ask why isn't philip carlo made of movie about Tommy patera and all that good stuff. Yeah, philip carlo is dead Which is why?

He never made a movie and something. Oh, are you saying that we can now? Yes. That's all on us. I guess When he wrote this book about tommy patera um He got a threat from tommy from in prison and for the rest of his days He had a bodyguard follow him around and protect him because he was afraid tommy was gonna have somebody murder him So how did he die? Uh, he had a disease. I can't let me double check. He died from a disease. Was it radiation poisoning? carlo

author Yeah, I just wanted to drop that update. That's the reason there was no movie by the way It's because he ended up dying in 2010 from lu garig disease. Damn. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah But so if you have an update with uh with the tomom should case drop it Well, we'll cover it like a top of an episode or something where we can do like a 10 minute. Oh, hey new new information Uh, let's do it. Yeah, and I will try and surprise you guys again with another one of these weird shorties We've got a the next topic is actually going to be a mix of of truth and paranormal as well With the deaths of some people that uh, we're going to be talking about in a couple of weeks

But alex, thank you for bringing that dope story, dude. Hell yeah, dude Appreciate it Uh, again guys, if you want to you can support us directly now by hooking us up Put yourself up with the shilluminati podcast t-shirt You can go to the yeti.com slash product slash shilluminati dash logo It brings it right to the purchasing of our new t-shirt And if you guys like that stuff, we'll throw out more stuff the shilluminati the logo that we have just fits perfectly As all kinds of stuff. Yeah, so hey, we'll see what we can do with that. It's a good shirt

It is a good shirt. It's a good shirt The mickey mouse murderer has returned. Yeah, and and dr. Girlfriend put it on your body So I can chop off your limbs and bury them in a suitcase Put it on your body. No for real though. Tommy. I think I respect you. Please don't come get me. Yeah, no You're innocent. Tommy. You don't you're innocent, man. You we we we uh, you know what? No, Tommy, I don't think you're innocent. I think you did a great. You are you're awesome I think you got every single one of those people. You probably you're so talented. Please don't add me the list I overthink you're a monster and deserved rotten prison for the rest of your life. So

Thank you all so much for listening to this episode of chilluminati We'll be back in about a week or two with our next topic on the book that uh, we're gonna be recording Hopefully while i'm down in la saying hi to these fools. They're so excited that i'm visiting you can hear it in their voice And uh, thank you appreciate it We'll be back soon. Make sure if you're listening on itunes drop us a five star rating. Let everybody know that you love us And uh, we'll see you next time. Bye. Bye. Hell. Yeah. Bye. Bye A journal is much more than a book of blank pages It's a personal journey a place to gather thoughts

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