Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 131 - Giggling Granny Nannie Doss Part 1 - Motherhood

Episode Date: December 17, 2021

On this true crime episode, we begin story of renowned serial killer, Nancy Doss Patreon - http://www.patreon.com/chilluminatipod BUY OUR MERCH - http://www.theyetee.com/collections/chilluminati Special thanks to our sponsors this episode Magic Spoon - http://www.magicspoon.com/chill Promo Code Chill Felix Gray - http://www.felixgrayglasses.com/chill Promo Code: Chill Talkspace - http://www.talkspace.com/chill Promo Code Chill Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - http://www.youtube.com/user/superbeardbros Art Commissioned by - http://www.mollyheadycarroll.com Theme - Matt Proft End song - POWER FAILURE - https://soundcloud.com/powerfailure Video - http://www.twitter.com/digitalmuppet

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Or, mmm, Palm Springs. Go To Your Happy Place for a happy price. Go to your happy price, Priceline. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Chiluminati Podcast. Episode 131. As always, I am one of your hosts, Mike Martin,

joined by my two friends and co-host Jesse Cox and Alex Faciane. How's it going, boys? Yeah, I'm just gonna... That's our little theme song. You know, the show has a theme song, but then when you talk about how we're both from L.A., that's the new...that's the L.A. theme song?

That's the L.A. theme song. Don't you just want to surf to that? Don't you just want to... That's not surfing, that's like... Surfing, our stuff is like... Suck out a couple Coronas or any other beer that doesn't sound like the name of... Probably the best opening we've ever had.

Oh, yeah. Totally together, tidy, thought out. Absolutely on target. Only one thing missing, really. This is a brand deal for our own show at patreon.com. Which you can join at any time. If you like this show and you're not on there, give it a...give it a little shot.

Just jump on there. Just have a look. Just tell me what you think. You know what? I'm not going to even put pressure on you to join. Just hop on there. Patreon.com. Head over there. It's a place where you can put money towards the show and support it and you get things in return.

And you be the judge. You tell me if it isn't the best value you've ever seen. You tell me if those early mini-sodes aren't the greatest thing you've ever seen. You tell me if the exclusive art doesn't kick ass. You tell me if getting merch whenever we put out merch

isn't a great benefit. You tell me. And you'll have to tell us if our movie commentary is any good this month, later this month. Oh my gosh. You have to let us know. As we watch Mothman, later this month. But I'm not going to let you...I'm not going to tell you. You have to find out for yourself.

Patreon.com It's a Merry Christmas. You know, it'd be nice. It'd be nice to, you know, you know, to head over there. That's all I'm saying. I was going to let that go. What were you saying? Yeah.

It'd be nice. Listen, full disclosure, I took my COVID booster the other... Just recently, I feel like shit. It feels like somebody punched me in the arm. I had nothing. They told me it was a half dose and it was going to be easy and I was like, yeah, I'm good.

So I guess, and this is me being like a YouTube mathematician right now, but I looked at a thing and I think most of the boosting combinations, you know, if you look at the like little chart that like tells

you what happens when you take each one with the other one. Most of them, it's like, hey, you get like 15 times the protection that you had before. But my combination is the J&J original and the Moderna, Moderna, I don't know,

booster. Moderna. And my number was 76 times. So you are like, I don't know what it is. I'm assuming that it's because my body is on overdrive right now. I think, well, I think because wasn't it like Moderna was out of all the

efficacy still like 95% even when boosters were coming out and J&J dropped rapidly. So your body was probably like, oh, we're doing this again. Because I'm three Moderna in a row. So that makes sense why I would have nothing and

you're like, oh, yeah. I'm curious. I get mine this weekend. I had Pfizer. So we'll see what the booster does again. Are you getting Pfizer again? Are you getting a different? I don't know. I think they have Moderna and Pfizer available where I'm going. I don't know if I have a choice or if they're just going to pick one for me when I get there.

Truthfully, it doesn't matter. Let me tell you something. I've already just by getting this, the idea of Christmas is like 15 times easier to bear. Feels better. Yeah. So I'm happy to be where I am

today and a day of discomfort is not worth not getting this booster shot. So you should go get it. And get your first shot while you're at it if you have it. You're self over to patreon.com where today not only are we going to sell you our

own products, we're going to tell you what to do with your bodies. So get get ready. OK, can I bring the mood down now? Are we good from here? From here at this at this peak.

Yes. Yes, boys, you know, we're in for a good time when I come with a two-parter because my two partners are never fun. You're never excited. Two-parters are like always a one-parter that like is so fucked up that now it's a two-parter. Well, we're in a, you know, we're in a fun, light, family friendly

sort of, you know, setting and since it's coming up on the holidays, you can think of anything better than cozying up by the fire as a kid, hot chocolate in your hands and your dear sweet grandma smiling away as you eat her definitely not poisoned big treats. Because that sounds like

the kind of person that I would want to spend my holiday with. Today is going to be part one of the two parter true crime tale that is all about the serial killer Giggling Granny Nanny Doss. What? Giggling Granny Nanny Doss?

Yes, you got it right. That's her name Giggling Granny. We'll talk about how she got that name at the next part. It's like, does it have to do with computers? No, no, D-O-S-S unfortunately. Not M-S Doss?

No, it's not M-S Doss. This is G-G-N Doss. G-G-N Doss. Giggling Granny Nanny. Giggling Granny Nanny not. So Nanny Doss was a serial killer from the early, uh, the operated What? What? We're like, it's Giggling Granny Nanny Doss.

Anyway, Nanny Doss was a serial killer. That's true. Yeah. Well, you got to bring it back down to reality for a moment. Yeah, she was a serial killer that operated in the early to mid 1900s who operated in multiple towns and cities across the United States. Though eventually

caught, there was a real chance that Nanny would have not only gotten away with it but lived a luxurious life and comfortable life later on all while she continued her killing. For many, Nanny Doss is the very definition of a black widow. And on that, let's acknowledge

our main source for this series, the book called Black Widow by Ryan Green. By Stan Lee? No. Stan Lee's Black Widow. This is a pretty good true crime book if you're in part of that book club over on Discord. I would say maybe it's a little biased and maybe

framing her as a victim more than anything else, but we'll talk about that as we discuss her crimes going forward. But like all true crime tales, our story doesn't actually start with Nanny. Her story starts with her mother, Louisa Holder. Now, we don't have a lot

of information about her mother other than when she came from a rather poor background and lived in a small, insular town with conservative parents. In fact, we find Louisa at this time in 1905, pregnant. More importantly, especially for the time in such a small town in Alabama,

pregnant out of wedlock. We know she hit her pregnancy for as long as she could and the father was not in the picture whatsoever. We aren't sure if it's because she refused to give the name of the man that she had slept with to protect him or if Lou genuinely didn't know

who the father was. But whatever the case, she never gave a name though it's suspected it was a soldier stationed at the nearby base in Aniston. Even when she could no longer hide the pregnancy from her family and her father, she had her mind set on not

giving up the father's name. Luckily for Lou, her mother would step in before her father would beat the baby out of her. Her mother would step in before any physical assaults would happen and for whatever reason, her father was entirely content beating his own daughter

but he refused to lay a hand on his wife. So without being able to beat his daughter into an abortion, he did the only thing he could that was almost as cool. Yeah, I told you this was going to be not a pleasant. I mean, you did. Yeah, and I tried to give you the warning.

He kicked her out of the house and had his family disown his daughter entirely until that she would give the name of the father so that her father could go take his ire out on him and she was now, according to the town's rumors, a ruined woman

in the eyes of their community. But Luisa held strong and never gave them the name. She found a one room apartment and did odd jobs around town for sympathetic women who would pay meager amounts of money to her. Her savings and money she had however quickly ran dry,

especially as her pregnancy came ever closer to its end. And worse yet, winter was approaching further and further into debt she would fall and with no way of undoing it. But she still persisted regardless and on November 4th, 1905 Luisa's reputation

as a ruined woman was etched into stone for some when she had her first child out of wedlock and Nancy, better known as nanny later in life, was born. And as quickly as Lu had become a ruined woman, no more than a week later did Lu get a proposal

for marriage. A man with land, his own farm a hard work ethic and one who cared not about a child that was not his tagging along. A man by the name of James Hazel had taken and saved Lu from the worst depths of debt.

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James had inherited the farm much earlier in his life than he might have hoped, and after paying off all the debts and loans to keep the farm in his family's name, he was left with very little other than the plot of land and himself. No hired hands to help, no crops were growing, nothing. So he didn't actually help her out of shit? Yes, that's very, very much so. But Lou, in that time, she was so enamored with anybody giving her even the basis level of like, just like letting her in and I guess you could call it care or any sort of empathy. Just not getting the shit beat out of her for being pregnant. Basically, exactly that. And that was all it took for her to be like, I'm in. And it also she was

in debt and her family refused to take her back at all. And James had a pension. Yeah, no, it's not a good situation. And James and James Hazel had a pension for his unrelenting pride. No amount of charity or free help, which was offered, was ever accepted. But in Lou and Nanny, he saw two things. One, his own loneliness and need for marriage would be sated and checkmark would be ticked off for his own family. But more importantly for him, he'd finally have hands around the farm to help. That would cost nothing. A baby. We'll talk about when we start working around what year 1905. All right. I mean, that's like, it's all starting to click still. I mean, 1905 is still very

close to, I mean, it's still in the time period where people are like, look, kids are hands. Like it's like blood meridian. This is insane. And it also checks out the like, spoiler alert for everyone who's not from the United States, but this country has some very puritanical origins. So, you know, the whole like, we disown you for having a child and like that whole thing. Boy, Americans love to do that kind of garbage. Yes, we were so puritanical at the very beginning. Yeah, luckily that faded away as the decades were. And now America is known as one of the freest and most tolerant places on the globe. Once married, though, Lou moved right into the Hazel Farm with nanny and the town rumor mill

spun up placing James as the hidden mysterious father, even if this was far, far from the truth. But it was good enough for Luisa's parents and they quickly made that story their own reality and saw a way out of their ruined daughter's reputation and stigma that had clung to her and their family ever since they had that child. So in their eyes, James was the father and then they walked up the street and saw a cow coughing up dust in the back yard. And then they said, oh, shit, we're fucked. It's like courage, the cowardly dog, like that farm, pure dust, dirt, nothing else. But for Luisa, there was no honeymoon period at all. And what little affection that he had shown Lu to win her heart that absolute bare minimum had evaporated almost

instantly. Lu was put to work on the farm from day one. And James's true self was revealed as an awful and hateful man. And Lu should ever be and should Lu ever be deemed slacking or disagreeing with James, he would verbally assault her before grabbing his cattle cane and beating her physically. Cattle cane? Oh, my God. Dude, what the fuck, man? 1905. Oh, God, just just a wild time. Their daily life would be 12 plus hours of farm work with no day off or end in sight. They were the only two to maintain the farm. And most nights they'd end up awake until 12 or 1am or maybe later, finally being able to sleep for a couple hours, only to wake up at dawn and tend to the animals and other farm labor. And due to this, nanny's entire childhood consisted

of her being ignored unless it was absolutely necessary she had to be taken care of. In the moment nanny could walk at three years old, she was working on the farm doing little tasks that didn't need brute strength to endure. And should nanny not get them done in the allotted times that James had said, he didn't spare her any of the punishment that he would give her mother. She received just as much of a beating as her mother would. It was a piece of shit. How many years of this? We'll get to that. This is literally within the first two years or so, three years or so. But how old is this baby? The baby was born in a week later, she got married. Yeah, this is a toddler. This is like two... What can you expect of this baby? Like, what in the...

Just a little tiny stuff, I imagine. I'm asking an insane question, I realize. Yeah, exactly. Like, what can a three-year-old really do? Exactly. But it didn't take long for James to realize he would need way more hands and money would never be something they had. But he had a wife and one who could bear children. And a cattle cane. And a cattle cane. Yep, pretty much. And so shortly after nanny began helping work on the farm, James would get Lou pregnant four times. One brother, three sisters. If I just have a bunch of babies and wait 15 years, this farm will pay for itself. That is literally the way they did, though. 17, 18, even to 16, basically throughout human history, it was like, look, if we have enough kids,

that'll take care of the land. Literally. And like, you're dead on. Like, for this... And this is a perfect example. Like, so much so, that the pregnancies, James timed the pregnancies so they were as close as they could be, ensuring not to get Lou pregnant during the harvest season as he would need her help, but still keeping the pregnancies as close as possible to get the kid out. What a piece of shit. And by... How is he even being the kids? Like, what does he do? He has no money. They go into town for errands, but yeah, like, not a whole lot. Corn, bone, fat, back, you know, all the whole fat back. All the oldies, but goodies. Dust and water.

But yeah, with a little bit of soup. Spatula soup. And by 1910, at the age of five, nanny was not only helping to take care of the farm, but was on newborn infant duty with her siblings constantly. Her school life would become non-existent, only ever attending school when the farm was in its slow season, but leaving once again once she was needed back at home. Her education would only ever reach that of grade level, and her social life as a young girl was totally non-existent. So nanny found a love for escapist entertainment in the early 1900s. Reading. She was a voracious reader, particularly of romance novels. And no matter how difficult her life seemed to be, nanny was notably always cheerful, easygoing and willing to try and say James is ever growing

an aggressive demeanor. She just wanted essentially approval. And this would be her life for a few years. Exactly like Ed Gein. Like exactly. Yeah, there's a lot of similarities in people who kind of become killers. We'll see some more as we keep going here. Like I said, this is her life for the next few years and very little changed. The farm was her life and her foreseeable future, even at such a young age, was this place. Then something occurred that seems to happen often with people who end up becoming serial killers. One day in the spring of 1912, during a really nasty storm that was hitting Alabama, and it was on a, the storm was hitting on a rare day where the family was heading into town for supplies. The children were being children and standing

up in the carriage and causing a ruckus, but eventually Louisa handed nanny a true romance magazine that she had read more times than she could count. And nanny remembers sitting in the carriage reading the magazine before everything went black. A tree had been knocked down in the road from the storm. And by the time the driver had seen it, they were almost too late. He slammed on the brakes and since this is 1912, every no one was really wearing seat belts because I don't think they really existed and everybody got sent flying forward. Everyone else had come out with just scrapes and bruises, but nanny wasn't so lucky. She was seated directly in front of a metal bar and as she was sent forward, she collided with the bar, knocking her unconscious and definitely

giving her a massive concussion. At seven years old, nanny had endured such a bad concussion it left her with brain damage. So just getting hit in the head is like super. It's like the same thing as the like NFL scandal, like these people lashing out in like violence or like wrestlers or something like that. Wrestlers is another good one. Did you see this this thing recently about this dude who I guess he killed someone? I don't know the article in front of you, but it was a football player, killed some people and then the brand scans are like, yo, this guy got beat up playing ball and it ruined the part of his brain that makes it like, hey, don't kill people. Yeah, there's a Will Smith movie about that. Yes, there is. Yeah. Where he's like the guy who

discovers it and there'd been the NFL is trying to cover it up from however long as long as they possibly can. But yeah, like that kind of stuff does permanent, permanent damage that just cannot be undone. And for the rest of nanny's life, she would now suffer from sudden sharp headaches and random bouts of sickness. But perhaps more telling for our story, people noted her personality from then on permanently changed. She still was her bright and cheery self a good chunk of a time, but that cheery disposition would immediately evaporate at the slightest hint of anything going wrong. She had consistent and regular bouts of what they called it in that time, dark moods, which was a long lasting depression that would outlast even her worst headaches.

Though even more curious, nanny was suddenly prone to bouts of pure unfiltered rage, violent screaming rage at the age of seven onward. And out of it, it always seemed to come out of nowhere. They would simply have to endure until this dark mood would pass. I mean, coming out of nowhere seems like not true. Like she absolutely do it again. Wacked in the best way. Wacked in the like she's got a lot of things to be angry about. I'll say that she absolutely does. You are 100 percent correct. It's so crazy that some people get hit in the head at a young age and become a murderer. And some people get hit in the head at a young age and become like I was the wife of the Pharaoh and I was in a ghost relationship with him. You know,

it's like the same thing. And then it made them both just go down a crazy road. I was hitting head multiple times as a kid. Look where you are now. Your success. I had a basketball in my head. The next every machine fell in my head. I jumped off a swing and a stick lodged in my skull. I got hit in the head. A friend hit me in the head with a golf club as I went to go put a golf ball down on the tee. This is all before I was like 14 years old. Just brutalized as a kid. I have a dent in my head from when I fell down the stairs in a play. It's right here. And everything, everything's starting to make sense, boys. Traumatic head injuries for me though. My parents were like, we are surprised you lived through your like early years because you were

always hurt. And I was like, yeah, that checks out. Maybe one of those head injuries made you a serial killer in one day. But I had three head injuries. Oh, no. And then one made you Hollywood psychopath. And now here you are. And kind of rear him back to the story though. I will say to Luisa's credit, her mother, she did want to bring her to the hospital immediately and constantly beg James to. But James forbid it because they just straight up didn't have the money to handle it. What's that like? Yeah, another another 1910s problem. Long gone. Thank God. We moved on from that. Oh my God. Those are like two really angry people in the comments. It's going to be funny. There's a lot more because they know it's true.

Though there's speculation that in no small part in that no small part that this was more obviously because of the money, but also because Nanny wasn't actually his by blood. And as time continued to pass, Nanny never getting medical treatment. It became clearer and clearer to Nanny herself that she was the odd child out when it came to her stepfather. In many ways, James had become God of their little world, making himself the center with no will of their own. His word was law. And if he demanded something, it got done. And as time continued, Nanny would prove to be the little devil in his world, one to cause havoc and chaos the best she could. It's it's pretty tropey. The idea that like he had nothing and his world was

chaos. And so he made his own and created his own little system. Yeah, like it checks out and sort of like the big bag handbook. It's there now. He literally picked the most in that time, most vulnerable, downer, luck woman he could possibly find. Yeah. And just was like, you're saved now. But now you owe me by being my slave. Yeah, it's like it's so crazy how like in media and in stuff like we are like all on top of this, we like get this and yet it just still happens. Yeah. And her and Nanny's new aggressive personality had truly come to the forefront and her siblings quickly learned not to get in her way or upset her as Nanny was far from scared of beating her own siblings if they if the feeling took to her. And Nanny had lost all fear of James

and his beatings at this point. Her life was filled with constant pain as it was as it was already. So for the first time in her life, Nanny truly began to hate someone. The man who she tried for years to please as a young child was suddenly seen for the man that he was. And while James still had held power over her, Nanny was now very aware of the very kind of man her stepfather had become. Nanny's reading habits also changed a bit, though outwardly, it would be hard to tell. She still read voraciously, but romance novels were no longer just her favorite. They had become her obsession, a fantasy that she would regularly dream about the night and shining armor, the wistful bliss of sudden and intense love being taken away from everything that she hated by a

man who would save her and give her the world. That was Nanny's fantasy. And now it was all she could think about that her love was out there. True love and dreaming was all Nanny could do as James had forbid his children to attend the local barn parties and hooten nannies that could be heard and seen from a distance on warm summer nights. He forbid his child from going to hooten nanny in 1912. What a monster! No hooten nannies. No hooten nannies for the children. Why even bother living? What is a hooten nanny? A hooten nanny? Music and dancing. I mean, I'm picturing like eating and some type of slime dancing and maybe there's like a greased up pig running around. Like, hey, catch the pig. Am I in the right zone? A hooten nanny. Yeah. Is that like a old school

kickback? Or is it bigger? It's bigger than that. It's a lot bigger than a kickback. It's a much more of a party, I think, feeling than a kickback chill. There's music, live music and dancing and not that there was anything else in 1912. That party that inexplicably has ZZ top at it in Back to the Future 3. It literally is like grab a folk singer, grab some hay, put it around on the ground, dancing and eating weird things out of, you know, whatever the equivalent of a paper plate would have been. And then like, you know, like, it's like one of the only times kids can go dance with their crushes, too, instead of just being under their parents thumb or doing work. It's like a prom for everyone. Except it's not,

they aren't playing like a slow jam at a hooten nanny. No, it's always slow. We're holding each other songs. It's all like, we're dancing around a good time and it's totally not sexual or anything, even though it's probably still happening. I love that. Yeah. And to that point, James's reason he would claim for not allowing them to go was that he was worried about his girls and his children's purity. What a good guy. What's he talking about? That's more hands for the farm, you big idiot. That's why his farm failed. No, because then all his daughters would leave. They'd all remember, this is the time where the daughter would go live with the husband and at their house. They wouldn't, the husband wouldn't come there. Right. Mostly daughters.

He only had one son, so he needed his girls. And men, for him, men couldn't be trusted. They were all lecherous and hateful animals. The only social events that they would ever be allowed to attend to would be the occasional family gathering that was all exclusively James's side of the family. Why are you laughing? It's just, again, a tropey class example of projection. He's like, men are evil. Like, yeah, bro, what makes you think that? Yeah, let's actually examine that thought a little further now that we're at the family gathering that everybody's allowed to. Explicitly James's family, the Hazel family. The Hazel family was large and spread out, but they would come together as frequently as they could. And nanny would quickly realize that

James's preaching of purity would fall by the wayside when it came to all the uncles and other male family members that he had. Are you serious? Yeah. And on another note to prove to nanny that she mattered very little compared to the kids that were by his blood, family members who were caught by James himself sexually assaulting his daughters by blood on multiple occasions, his reaction would beat the fuck out of the person who did, who was doing it. The family very quickly learned that if they abused or molested his blood daughters, James would beat the hell out of them for daring to hurt his girls. But when they were caught doing the same to nanny, he would turn and go the other way. And when they arrived home, nanny would be the one to receive the beatings for daring to set

such a horrible example for her younger sisters. While further implying the apple hadn't fallen far from the tree in regards to her mother, just to remind them all who was in charge and who they served. And nanny's hate grew basically just insulting Louisa for having a child out of wedlock in the process of beating her own child, her own daughter. So that's kind of like where nanny's upbringing took place. It wouldn't take long for nanny to desperately seek any escape, a way out of this hell that was her life. Her reading materials changed from romance novels to romance columns in the newspapers, writing off letters in hopes that the young suitors would come by and scoop her up to save her.

But whether James had found the responses before she did or simply nobody had replied, nanny had never gotten an answer. And in my opinion, I don't think anybody replied because I feel like if James had caught the letters, he would have just beat her some more. And she never ended up getting beatings or ever sending letters out, so I don't think anybody just ever replied. But she continued regardless to look for an escape, and while still never being allowed to leave James's watchful eye. But nanny was smart, she knew well and good that the farm was failing, only ever breaking even in its best years. And she knew that if she was to get out of the house, it would initially have to be something that James approved

of. So in 1920, at the age of 15, nanny approached her parents with an offer. Instead of continually sending her to school on the seasons she could, why bother at all? She was already too far behind to catch up to a kid's her age. Maybe it'd be better. Yeah, it's it's shit. It's 19. But like, this is also kind of common for 1920s and the early 1900s sucks. And maybe she said to her family that maybe it'd be better if she went out into town and got a job instead. She could bring money back to help the farm while simultaneously getting out of James's hair simultaneously working in a sweatshop. Yeah, that's what we'll find out is kind of like where she ended up. But she also got out of James's hair, but still maintained his trust. James listened to the offer. And after

sleeping on it for a night, he couldn't find a single reason to not let her do that. And so he agreed. And in the summer of 1920, nanny was finally allowed into town on her own, looking for a job she could work at for far from her house while maybe finally having a taste of that fantastical social life that she is absolutely crazy. Absolutely crazy. What what aspect of it? Just the whole thing? I mean, yeah, the whole thing. Like I understand wanting to get out of a bad situation. Like I get that. It's just crazy that it's like the way she could do it is by saying like, look, dad, I don't want none of this fancy education. Yeah, I want to go work as a young kid and like, you know, bring home some money to the fat and he's like, yeah, that's a terrific idea.

Oh, I hate that past sucked. It sucked a lot. And nothing has changed at all. No, we're in everything has changed. Everything has changed. That's what I meant to say. Oh, God. And it wouldn't take long for nanny to secure a job in the small town of Blue Mountain, Alabama at the local linen thread mill. She literally literally is a sweatshop. Yes. Yes. Where else is she going to work as a kid in the 1920s? Fucking soda shop, a fucking DZ discovery zone. Give her something to feel joy about in her life. Jesus Christ. I feel for a little bit. My summer breaks when I was 14 and 15, my parents made me get a job. I had to go to work. I had no, not a sweatshop. All right. I was a janitor at the local church in the school over

the summer, but you know, close enough. Whoa. At 15, they were like this kid can handle chemicals like clean. Oh my God. Yeah, actually. Yeah. I didn't think about that. How clean was that church though? Did you like it? I mean, man, it was real good. Did you stick into the shirt? I worked with somebody who was very clearly in college and he introduced me to the red hot chili peppers. Thank God. That's as far as he got. That's all I know. That's all. Anyway, yeah, I didn't work at a thread, a local linen thread mill in Blue Mountain, Alabama, like nanny did though. And while she was still forbidden from wearing makeup by James, her clothing became less bland as a matter of necessity if she was to work in the mill.

See what all James allowed her to his daughters to wear were like brown sacks as like dresses in like very simple covers, everything garb. And it was very loose fitting. It wasn't form fitting. It just covered everything. I wish you could see it podcast listeners, but Alex has just leaned forward and shaking his head. Jesse's hands went down his face. They are just so distraught by this whole thing. It's crazy to me that as we do all these stories, the beginning is always the same. Yeah. It's like I that's like, I want to be as terrible as possible to my child, fuck her up as much as I possibly can. But it's like, it's like no matter what happens, it is very clearly obvious that it's it goes back. It's like one generation of terrible people leads to another

generation of terrible people that gets worse and worse. So eventually someone's a psycho killer. It's crazy. It's crazy that it took to like generational trauma. It just feels like it's crazy that like it took us until like halfway through the 20th century to be like, do serial killers? Are we the bad guys? Like did we figure are we fucking are we letting people down and then they become serial killers? It's usually that. Is there a profile poor parenting leading to a head injury at the same time? Yeah, you know, it's a combination of like both. There's a point there's a point to be made there. It's like, I believe if nanny's home life hadn't been as bad as it was and she's still in during the head injury,

she could have probably been okay. This feels like a fucking heavy handed D&D story. Like it feels like too many of the like trophy details are in one story. Like that's fucking insane. It's your first it's your first serious D&D character and you really want to go ham on the back store. It's also very obvious that there's no one there's no one in her life to be her champion. No, I think that's what I was like in every one of these stories. It's always like and the only people they had to turn to were awful people and they were put in awful situations. And it's just like there was not one single person in any of these stories who was like, yo, you need to get out of this situation and like we need to use some help.

To even kind of honestly just hammer on that point, even Lou, her mother, when wouldn't protect her even going so much as like when when James would beat nanny, she just counted herself lucky that she wasn't the one being beaten and just let it happen. Like she was never there to protect her daughter, even if she still cared and loved about her daughter to some degree, which she did on some level. But that's, you know, that's the trauma of being kicked out of home. Of course, defend for yourself. One person looks out for you. The whole idea what you're saying was she was like thrilled about like at least someone cares. And now she's like, you know, it's one of those things that's just like, well, you know, your father like, no, that's you are better than she

had, right? Her life is better than it was before. And that's all that matters. And that's again, if there had been like one person was like, lady, oh my God, you need to get out. There's so many people living just like this, like in their lives right now, like maybe not as insanely like, you know, dramatically, just utterly destructive, destructive to somebody as this in every case. But like, there's so many people even today just living like through this year, and they have some shitty job, you know, they talk about all the time, these people that are like, hey, tornadoes coming, but you can't quit or we'll fire you. Like, and they don't move and they work. It's exact. And it's just like, when you're able to

lay it out like this too, and like really look at it, it's the generational trauma, the term makes so much sense because you're just teaching people poor survival habits. Even the people who get out of that specific situation end up taking on poor survival habits so that they now have different kinds of terrible ways that they may treat their children. But it was better than their parents used to treat them. Yeah, it's just nuts. It leads right back to like the same line of thinking behind our show to not behind our show, but like conspiracy theories, things like that. Like that because it gives you answers. It gives you safety. It makes you feel like at least you can't understand why like everything is so fucked up and you'd like come up with some

crazy theory instead of it just being like people don't know how to do shit and they need to like be more honest with each other and reach out to each other more like it's it's. Hults are the same exact thing too. It's crazy. It's you know, the devil that you know is better than the devil that you don't. It's like that's the same of the podcast in a way. Yes, very much so. But going back to nanny, loose clothing would be way too dangerous in the mill and could get caught up in the machinery. And it's here now that she was wearing clothes that more fit her and she was able to be herself. Nanny truly began to flourish. For starters, nanny was a good looking girl by all accounts, especially when it came to the small town of Blue Mountain standards.

But more than that, it seemed that social life came extremely easily to name. Man, this sucks. No, this is you've just now you've just landed on another trope. Like my dude, you were you were like by all accounts, she was a hottie and you know, she was doing all to me. That says is she's had a terrible life. And for the first time she gets attention, it's just dudes who want to bang her, which is literally being like men are evil. Oh my God. Like it's like it is going on the right. This is if I read this in a script, I'd be like, this sucks. This is too much. Yeah, man. You are like this is that you can see it coming from a mile away, which you know, we've done. You've the means I've taught you something in this podcast, you know, I feel like you have

absorbed some information. Like yeah, I feel like what is this episode two thousand six. We've literally done this so many times. It's like, well, there's another trope of like a person is going to murder a bunch of people. It's crazy. Wait till we get to our next huge serial killer. Let me let me do the first episode improv and I bet then tell me how right I am. I think that would be a really fun time to do. Yeah. So yeah. And moreover, in Blue Mountain, but more than that, it seemed that social life had come really easily to Nanny regardless of how tight a hold James may have had over her during childhood. Nanny very quickly had friends all over the mill. Every person she spoke to, she spoke to with a smile. Anytime

anyone ever needed help, Nanny was the first to offer her assistance. This in combination with their good looks also meant that beyond friends, Nanny had all the boys looking her way too. While she enjoyed spending her lunch and free time with the other girls around the mill, Nanny had other ideas. Those fantasies hadn't left her mind. And in fact, with the little freedom she now had, they only intensified. So to further her social circle, Nanny picked up smoking and would join the boys for smoke breaks as often as she could, partly because she truly did enjoy the company and enjoyed smoking, but mostly because outside around the men, Nanny was queen and she held court. I can't. I can't. It's literally the like, I'm different from other girls,

plus the like, I only like guys because they get me tropes. Like I just can't handle it. Mathics, it's too much. I didn't make this up, man. I'm not coming out of my brain. This is history. I've never heard of this person. How many husbands? Yo, we'll talk about it. It's part of her story, man. It's part of the story. Okay, here's the question for you. This is the ever, the ever present question about a woman that like this, who do you think she kills first? A child or a husband? Whoa. See, I think it's a trick question. You're going to say a child, but I was going to guess, I was going to guess her dad, but I guess, yeah. Okay, well, we'll find out. I was hoping it's

going to be your dad. You're on a, you're on a very smart path with the dad thought though, Alex. I really like it because obviously the first I don't. We'll see. We'll see what happens. It's like a trick question. I don't know. Okay. I was just throwing it out there. I wasn't trying to play mind games with you. I was just trying to see if we were on, you know, your thoughts. I don't purport to be a expert of, of criminal mentality, but I hope it's the dad. For fuck's sake. Regardless, she, like I said, when she would go smoking, Nanny would hold court. The boys would vie for her attention and Nanny was happy to give it so long as she was the focus of their every effort. Moreover, now that Nanny was in town so often for work, she became the de facto errand

runner for the farm. It wasn't long before Nanny became the pride of Blue Mountain. You'd be hard pressed to find a single person who would speak ill of the smiling, delightful, helpful little Nanny. Even so, it was still hard to shake the reputation that her family held when it came to romance. While most of the young boys were certainly interested in getting Nanny in bed, when it came to the idea of marriage, which Nanny made very clear was her end goal with all of the boys, the boys would begin to fall away slowly one by one. What? Who would have guessed? Right? Oh, what? Surprise. Literally all she's looking for is like a fucking person to be with. Someone to save her, her knight in shining armor that she read about in all those books,

because she knows her love is out there. Her true man's must be out there. I hate this. It was, what? I hate this. I thought you said Mathis for some reason. I was like, what? Her true love, Mathis. Yep. No, thank you. No, I would rather not. It was well known in the town that she came from a poor household. It wouldn't have much to offer when it came to finances. See, back in these days, the women were still kind of expected to give a dowry of some sort or have or come along with some amount of property. But that was something that couldn't happen with Nanny. But that still didn't stop Nanny for looking for her fantasy made real. And with her mother as in her example, she knew the life that she want. She did not want

for herself and the life that she was desperate for as long as it was the as it was the opposite of Luisa's. While most of the boys fell away, one hadn't seen much issue with Nanny and her lot in life, a boy by the name of Charlie Braggs, a 17 year old. And in fact, he was the only of Nanny's potential suitors, the few that did try and date her that had won over the hearts of both Nanny's mother and of James. James had never really approved of any nanny's potential suitors for many reasons, including obviously the loss of Nanny. But all of the boys were boys. They went out every night, drank and enjoyed time with friends and dalliances with ladies. And Charlie did none of that. He was a homebody, not spending his money on himself, but of the upkeep of his

own home and taking care of his sickly mother. This drew respect from James oddly. And while Nanny who didn't and oddly, while Nanny who did enjoy the company of Charlie and him being utterly smitten with her, she hadn't decided if she if he was worth marrying yet. But this didn't matter much because James and Luisa all but decided for her that she would marry Charlie. And in just four short months after they initially began dating, Nanny and Charlie were wed. Boom. Man, it's just like a recipe for disaster. Well, yes, we thought it would be a happy marriage, sure of nothing but love and family and they will die happily in the old age. I promise. I'm definitely angrier now than I was at the beginning of the episode.

We'll see how much anger you get. And while for Nanny, this not might have been exactly what she had fantasized about for so many years, she couldn't help but admit that Charlie fond and loved her deeply and he was incredibly malleable. He never put up much of a fight when they were dating and she seemed to have most of the control in the relationship. While she wasn't too fond of the fact that he lived with his mother, that would at least change when they married and moved in together. And besides, she took note that he was taking care of a sickly woman and appreciated that about him. Nanny intended to the best of her ability to be the best housewife she could be, which meant leaving her job. She would keep their house perfectly

clean, cook dinner for them nightly and take care of wifely duties, which she was, at the start, very excited about. Sex was something she'd read about so often, though written about much more subtly in the books back then. Is that what you mean by wifely duties? Yes, that's what she meant because wifely duties comes from her diary that she would write in. So that's what she was referring to, yeah. All right. Are you a little bit more mad now? I'm not. I'm less mad. I mean, I'm mad. Let's just leave it at that. I'm mad. Fair enough. Fair enough. Yeah, for her sex, at least, was something she'd read so often about, but never something she'd done herself, seeing what life ahead led her mother, her mother into. And when the marriage and reception ended and the newlywed

couples swept away to their new home, Nanny was brimming with excitement. Her new life had finally begun. And while it may not have been exactly what she was hoping for, it was miles in a way better than the life she'd led up to this point. And when morning came and Nanny rolled out a bed to make her new husband some breakfast before work, because he was going to work the day after the wedding, she walked into the kitchen and Nanny was met with her very first surprise. Most of us have clothes we've loved for years, maybe even decades, but it's harder than ever to find clothing that will stand the test of time. So before you update your closet this summer, take a look at American Giant from hoodies and t-shirts to denim and more. They've got everything

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Right now, get 15% off your first order when you go to burrow.com slash podcast. That's burrow.com slash podcast for 15% off your first order. Burrow.com slash podcast. There sat Charlie's mother, already wide awake, looking with a dirty glance over at Nanny. When Nanny came into the kitchen, his mother said to her, Charlie will be needing his breakfast before work. Best I go wake him while you see to it, before getting up and waking Charlie. Nanny was in absolute shock. She hadn't known his mother would be here or if she'd been here overnight. And when Charlie came into the kitchen to get some breakfast before heading to work, he greeted his mother first, Nanny second.

And Nanny was finally before he walked out the door, able to get a little alone time with him and asked when his mother would be going home. His response was, she is home silly. She lives here with us. Never mind. I get why she killed everyone. I get why she killed everyone. Never mind. It's much clearer. Yeah, no, like everything had happened here before. I'm not even including that in my diagnosis. Just this one moment would have, I would have been like, everyone must die. Yeah. Honestly, this is your villain origin point. This is it, right? When you walk in the kitchen night after your wedding and mom, you know, just, oh, hey, I was waiting for y'all. I'd be like, honey, um, who is this? Why are they here? Oh, you know, my mother's going to

live with us forever. I'd be like, remember sickly. Wait, so you're telling me that out of all the, all the options of people to kill, you gave us baby or husband first and not dad or a mother-in-law? That's correct. Cause I was giving, yeah, yeah, that is correct. Oh, the mother-in-law is seems like the obvious, like if she's gone, then I'm fine. Seems like the obvious first choice. I'm going to throw this even more kind of a curveball. Nanny finds herself in a bizarre little finger situation and you'll understand that at the end of the episode. I know. I know. I know. What season? What a season. What season? What season of a little finger are we talking about? Oh, like early, early seasons. Yeah, not like a crappy seasons where he finds himself constantly in like good

positions due to like his own, his own doing. You'll find out. Remember when he was like an interesting character? Yeah. When he was an interesting character. I don't, we don't need to talk about Game of Thrones. I get enough hate mail about my preferences already. You're not getting hate. If anything, you get people like, he's right, you know, Alex is correct. 100%. That's not been my experience so far. All right. All right. Unsurprisingly, Nanny did not take well to this information initially, but she decided that she would try to power through. Apparently she was sickly. So she understood to agree that she needed to be taken care of and it wouldn't be forever, right? If she was of ill health,

it would be only be a matter of time before she passed away. Unfortunately though, for dear old Nanny, there were more surprises in store as the days and weeks were on. It became increasingly apparent that his mother was far from sickly. When Charlie was home and in the room, the mother was nothing but nice, courteous and cordial to Nanny. But once he was gone, she was judgmental, cruel, cold and distant, critiquing everything Nanny did when it came to house cleaning and caretaking, looking over her shoulder at every turn, double checking her work. And when Nanny did and when Nanny did want to go out with Charlie for some time for themselves, then and only then did this mother's sicknesses seem to reemerge. The days turned to weeks, weeks into months and months

into years. And Charlie's sickly mother continued her daily berating of Nanny while Charlie worked in the treadmill. While she still had most of her hold over Charlie, what his mother said was law and quickly Nanny realized she had simply gone from one authoritarian to another of a slightly meeker flavor. And she was desperate for escape once again. Initially, it was simply diving back into the romance stories that had held her attention when she was younger. And she once again consumed them voraciously, digging ever deeper into her fantasies, the love life she dreamed of having that she told herself she deserved. But Mother Braggs didn't only critique Nanny's work, she inspected every corner of the house and she would always inevitably find Nanny's dirty

magazines if you even want to call them that. And without skipping a beat, she would throw them in the garbage without even confronting her about it. No matter where Nanny hid them, Mother Braggs always ended up discovering them. So Nanny would eventually turn to the bottle and drown her sorrows in alcohol instead. And as the years waned on, I know I'm sorry to just keep going. What was that? I was just said, God damn, is all I said. I know it sucks. And it's just again, another stereotypical, okay, booze, alcohol, you know, that's another kind of thing that people fall into. And as the years waned on, it seemed that the spark and hope that Nanny had found at her marriage to Charlie Bags was fading. In her efforts to keep Charlie heavily under her sway,

Nanny said she would provide sex to Charlie every single time he asked without question or any resistance. And by the, but by the third year, their carnal interest in one another had almost entirely faded. Nanny had begun to hate the man she married, seeing him as a weasley, pathetic and spineless rat. A sad runt she was forced into marrying by her parents. But still, she wouldn't give up the dream. And when the power sex held over Charlie stopped, she bore him children to lock him down forever. God, four daughters, four daughters in all. But the children did not fix much, only giving Nanny an excuse not to sleep in the marital bed any longer, instead sleeping in the children's room in case they ever needed her. And Mother

Bragg's incessant nagging never ceased, even with children. And Nanny's fantasy life grew further and further away. On the rare times that Nanny could get a babysitter, she would head straight to the gin mills of Aniston, getting drunk and sleeping with as many different men that made her feel beautiful and that sparked that distant hope that there was something more out there. Gin mills? Yeah, the gin mills of Aniston. God, it sounds like a Star Wars. Yeah, yeah. What rumors may have swirled about Nanny would quickly be overlapped by the rumors of Charlie and his nightly excursions with alcohol and women of the Threadmill where he still worked. And Nanny was well aware of each and every one of them because she was friends with everyone in town.

And of her children, Nanny loved one more than the rest, her firstborn Melvina. In Melvina, Nanny saw the woman that she could have been. Melvina would be the one to live the life of romance and happiness that Nanny had. She would ensure that no matter the cost. And when Melvina was the only child, Nanny seemed to flourish for a little while, loving motherhood and enjoying the time she would have with her daughter. It seemed to fix everything for a bit. But her life had gone completely off track, just like her mother's. But Melvina would be different. And while Nanny spent a majority of her life and time home tending to one of her four infants and the mother-in-law, Charlie, and as well as her mother-in-law, Charlie's infidelities kept growing. He was

disappearing now, sometimes up to two to three days at a time, all while becoming more and more the talk of the town. Poor Nanny to have such a useless and faceless husband. But Nanny smiled and played like the perfect housewife outwardly, all while inside she had continued to build up her rage at what her life had become. As the days wore on, she pondered her life when she was a mother of a single child. Back then, even with the awful mother-in-law, she was a happier woman. She could focus on lovely Melvina and making her life perfect, while still tending to her wifely duties and having time to herself to read her novels and enjoy her time. But with four children, there was no free time. There was no time for her. In her mind, not only was she unable to have a

life with time of her own, but the other three children were taking precious time and energy she could be pouring into Melvina instead. To Nanny, it was a matter of simple practicality. After a long weekend on one of his benders, Charlie came home to his house or came back to his home surrounded by townsfolk. As he pushed through, he saw people were dressed in black and crying. Immediately, he thought of his mother that something had happened. But as he went into the home, he only saw her, his mother, and Nanny alive and well, and he asked where the girls were. At the time, the youngest, at the time, the youngest, Florine was still breastfeeding and hadn't actually had any breakfast other than couldn't actually eat any solid breakfast that

morning because she was an infant. And Melvina ate only toast, but the middle two ate a full breakfast and went outside laughing and giggling to play that morning. And by night, through stomach pains, loss of energy and vomiting, they both passed away. A doctor was called immediately to pronounce them dead. Boys and their fucking kids. Yeah. And the doctor, when he showed up, pronounced them dead of acute food poisoning. He said, if perhaps they had been caught earlier, they could have induced vomiting to save them. But there was no indication that something was wrong until it was too late. Even mother Braggs was by Nanny's side, consoling her. And unbeknownst to anyone else in that room, Nanny had concocted the perfect storm. By poisoning

her two children, she alleviated herself from a large amount of the motherhood that she hated. Moreover, they died while Charlie was out and gallivanting for days with the entire town aware of the unfortunate passing of the daughters before that even the father did. This immediately cast aspersions on Charlie. And when he would go to his mother for comfort, he found that she too now sided with Nanny for only a mother could possibly understand the love between she and her child had for each other. And he wasn't even here to take care of them when they needed him the most. He was an embarrassment. Nanny found herself the very center of everyone's love, attention, and consolation. Her grief and loss were profound,

and Nanny was good at playing the part. And whether purposefully done or the ramifications accidental, she was in the perfect position for everyone around her to love and care for her. And after a hurried funeral in a quick burial, that night when she placed a plate of food in front of Charlie with a sad smile, he looked up and says he saw something, not grief or true sadness nor guilt for leaving his wife for so long. Instead, when he met Nanny's gaze, he said he saw past it all avoid emptiness. And Charlie for the first time was scared for his life. And he was scared of his wife as well. After all had gone to bed, Charlie got up late at night, packed his bags and went to the children's room and took Melvina, leaving behind Florine as

she was nestled in Nanny's sleeping arms. And he ran ran for their lives. He was convinced Nanny had killed the two children and the entire town was on her side. So he did the only thing he knew to do and ran. And when Nanny woke to find her favorite daughter gone along with her rat of a husband, the town doubled down on their support of her, taking it as evidence that Charlie was a good for nothing deadbeat. But Nanny while soaking up the attention was far from happy. Her favorite daughter was taking from her, the girl who was supposed to live the life she was. But Nanny had also discovered something else, a quick way to solve problems and inherit unconditional love and support. I was going to say, yeah, the result of her killing people was she got everything she

was looking for, which only reinforces the fact that now she's like, Oh, I just kill more people and even better things. Like, oh, my God, it is so insane that this can like work enough for you to become a serial killer. Yeah. Well, yeah, it goes on. Wait, we haven't even cracked into anything. And that's what next episode, boys, is all about is this is where this one ends. Next week, we'll return and finish the story of giggling granny Nanny Doss. And she has quite a life ahead of her. And it's insane what ends up happening and how long she gets away from it. But this is only a taste of what she ends up doing. It's nuts. Thank you guys so much for listening. I'm sorry to like leave you in that mental state. But good Alex taking a nice sweet dreams,

everyone. I've been like looking at Aniston, Alabama the entire time while we've been doing this, like checking out the town because I'm like, it can't be that big. Like, you know, just as an example, when you said at the gin mills, I was thinking myself like, oh, they're making gin. And I said, no, you mean like cotton gin as in like the cotton gin mills, that kind of stuff. Or I'm just like trying to piece things together about this person's life. And it's just even now. Yeah. Aniston, Alabama has a population as of 2019 of 21,000 people. What's crazy is that surrounding it. And, you know, we're talking about 1920 surrounding it is all forest. Yep. And yeah, it's, you know, there's the national, that giant national trail,

like there's, it's very interesting to see. Man, it's what a you're out in the middle of nowhere kind of, I mean, Birmingham's in the area, but it's nowhere nearby. They aren't, they didn't have giant highway systems. No, transportation back then took forever still. Yeah. So this is what a, what a, I just, it's a lot. It's a lot. I know, I know, but this isn't, but the thing is like, this isn't one of those stories that this is one of those, and she was caught kind of things rather than all the times that you know, in the back country of such and such a place, there was like, and then I killed them all. Oh my God. Literally, like when you, when we're at the end of next episode, like the way she moves and the way she does things is, is so premeditated,

she's just thinking so far ahead. Well, because it's her, it's her drug. Yeah. 100%. Like any serial killer, like the killings give them that rush, that desire, fills that void for some of them. It's nuts. But we'll talk about that next week. Thank you all so much for listening. We're off to go do a. I'm always on the side of the murderer for the first half. And then for the second half, I'm like mad at them again. Well, she killed two innocent children. So at that point, I feel bad. Yeah, I just, it's, it's a, it's a horrible situation in every way. 100%. So by the end of next episode, if you still feel a little sympathy for Nanny, I think all that will evaporate over her, the course of her life and her actions moving forward.

We got to go do a mini soda on Patreon. Thank you guys so much for listening. We love you. And we'll see you next time. Goodbye. Anyway, me and my wife were sitting outside indulging on our porch one night enjoying ourselves. I needed to go to the bathroom. So I stepped back inside. And after a few moments, I hear my wife go, holy shit, get out here. So I quickly dash back outside. She's looking up at the sky. I look up too. And there's a perfect line of dozen lights traveling across the sky. So so

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