Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 137 - (20)22 Alex Mysteries Part 4

Episode Date: January 27, 2022

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Get the 60% off select hotels to Costa Rica or five-star hotels for two-star prices in Cabo. Go to priceline.com and travel to your happy place for a happy price. Alright, see ya. I'm off to Miami. No, actually, wow, look at that. No, I'm going to Hawaii now. Ooh, Cancun looks nice. You know what? Belize looks pretty nice this time of year.

Or, mmm, Palm Springs. Go To Your Happy Place for a happy price. Go to your happy price, Priceline. Music Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Chilluminati Podcast, Episode 138, I do believe. As always, I am one of your hosts, Mike Martin,

joined by the Neo and Trinity of LA, Jesse and Alex. What's up? Dodge this. Oh, wait, oh, alright. I guess your Trinity then. Do you know how I know you're the one? How? Because I love you.

Damn, you are my Trinity. I was going to say, can I just tell you, it's weird that we both were like, I'm the Trinity though. No, I guess I'm Neo. Listen, maybe we're both Trinities. Maybe we are. Can I tell you, speaking of Neo,

to this day, my mom still thinks he's called Neil. Neil. I am. The Neil. Yeah, and they're like, they keep calling him Neil. And I'm like, I guess Neil. You are the one, Neil. Right?

It's a hard one. She's the Neil at the end of that Neil. Neil. Neil. Neil. Neil. Yeah. Neil.

Watch out, Neil. It kind of sounds like it. I guess I kind of get where she's coming from. Yeah, I get it. But she always thinks that. Yeah, I get it. Incredible. It makes it better when everyone else has like a crazy name.

And then there's just Neil. Neil Anderson. The chosen one. Why would it be Neil? Morpheus, Trinity, Switch, Cypher. And Neil. Tank, Dozer, Neil. That's like a Neil Breen movie.

Yeah, that would be a Neil Breen movie. And Neil. Oh, God. Speaking of movies, hey, head over to patreon.com slash LuminatiPod. Isn't that right, Alex? We just watched a movie together. That is correct. We watched a movie that I can only describe.

Terrible. As the reefer madness of Dungeons and Dragons. If Dungeons and Dragons. An example that even famous people make shit. Tom Hanks, terrible film. This is his debut picture. It's got to be made for TV. It was.

It was shocking. If you want to see what it's like, if you ever wanted a movie, if you're watching a good movie and you were thinking to yourself, I wish they would walk around more and say absolutely nothing. That's amazing monsters. So if you want to spend your hard earned dollars, head over to patreon.com slash LuminatiPod. Where you can sample that right along with us.

There was a love story. Two love stories in this film. No beginning or end. They just occurred. There was no like build up. Did they just happened? It was a movie about the characters from like a health class video. After they.

After they've done. They're just live just went on. And then speaking to watch Tom Hanks maybe kill somebody. Speaking of movies. I don't know if this is something we should include in our future watching, but I've been seeing a lot of trailers lately for this thing on Hulu that I think is a documentary about Bigfoot. And also marijuana.

Maybe not the same guy I was thinking of, but it's a documentary that's on Hulu. I think I saw something about this. I'm going to watch that for chill tracks as we watch and talk. I don't know what we need besides Hulu, but I keep seeing the commercial and I'm like, is that a Luminati thing? So just put it out there in the ether because I keep seeing it and I keep

forgetting to mention it on the show. And so now that we're talking about movies, I'm like, I'm mentioning it. Insane. That sounds like a wild movie. I just want to know how weed is involved. The trailers like the new Tiger King. So that means there's obviously a weird twist in it,

which is like, all right. On the Luminati podcast episode 69. Um, I don't know. I don't know. I'm just throwing out there. It seems really similar to that. Maybe that person. Shoot.

They got the Luminati bump. And then became famous for being famous. It's a one-stop shop. If you get to the Luminati bump, yeah, we've got a lot of, there are a lot of people in the world who listen to Luminati. There's like random like celebrities. Just put it on talking about random celebrities,

random celebrities, listen to Luminati. I'm not going to put them on blast. You can't tell. I don't know who these people are. All right. I don't, I'm going to imagine that it's Drew Barrymore for me. I don't know why. Oh, because Jesse brought it up on Twitter recently.

I think that's why I'm thinking of her. I'm going to imagine it's Barack Obama. I discovered that she's single and she doesn't want to have kids or get married. And I'm just saying, call me, Drew. She was like that voice. Who was that man?

If only there was a, where is he? Call me, Drew. Call me, Drew. You can have his number if you become a patron over a Patreon. If you donate $10,000 a month, you can get Jesse's phone number, Drew Barrymore. I bet you, you know what?

Add it to the list. You put it in 10K. I'll give you my phone number. That it's only for Drew Barrymore, the actress. Yeah. Well, DM Drew Barrymore, Jesse's phone number. No, if you pay in 10K, I'll give you my number. No matter what, you got my number.

All right. All right. Put that out there. What? Well, who do you think is the celebrity listening to you, Alex? President Barack Obama. Hmm. I think I'm going to make the 2022 list,

year-end list from Obama. I hope we end up on Oprah's favorite things. I would, dude, there's no way that that's ever going to happen. I'm sorry. It's, it's much less believable than President Barack Obama putting me on his list. Anyway, you guys ready to get into this? Here we are again.

I know you said this was episode 138, but really it's the fourth installment of the first episode of 22, episode 2022, part two of two, part two. How is this still happening? And you really have to ask yourself thing. You really have to ask yourself at this point, is this it? Is it over? No.

That is a lot of news. What does it all mean? Who does number two work for? Remember that? How is it that you, Alex, have both helmed the episodes that you claimed were three parts, but was two and now is clearly a batch of episodes, four parts claiming it as two. I'm about to become a serial killer.

And this is my code that I'm, that I'm sharing with you. All the numbers. Each word he says, it corresponds with a number and like a pictogram that he's created to send the police. Get ready. It's all a tie into Matthew Vaughn's The Batman. Is it not? Is it Matthew Vaughn?

I don't think it is. I don't care who it is. I don't care. It's Matthew. Wait, what? The Batman. The one with the riddler. Don't worry about it.

There are the Batman squads. True detective season two in all seriousness, as of last episode, there are only six topics left of the 22 that I promised so this really might be it. Let's get into it. Are they topics are they? 22 because 2022 to 22 this could have been several dozen episodes or This could have been several dozen episodes for years to come. It could have been bullshit episodes.

If I had to stretch any one of these to an hour and a half, it would be disgraceful. If you're joining us for the first time and you're confused with a number of topics or what the hell we're talking about, what I've done. And Mathis just touched on this. I've taken all the mysteries that I tried to write episodes about, but did it in 2021, a.k.a. last year

and condensed them all down into this one episode, the very first episode of 2022. And I turned them into shorter than normal chapters, which I cleverly have called many mysteries because of their size. And speaking of lists, if you want to hear a list of all major UFO activity in one of the largest regions in,

if not the largest region in the United Kingdom on today's mini-sode, which if you haven't figured it out by now, you can listen to right after this episode. All you got to do, go support the show, patreon.com slash lunatic pod 2022 website of the year. It's already there. It's already won. The reports are already in.

It's the best website of this year. Shoutouts to Sage Journals, historyextra.com, braindamageadigang.com, the UFO casebook, UFO watchdog, Arkansasmatters.com, archive.org, and as always, www.wikipedia.org, which like Spider-Man's uncle, Ben, I believe comes with great responsibility.

Also, like I said last week, this is for fun. We are not experts. We're just weird dudes online who think this kind of stuff is interesting. So please take everything with a nice grain of really high quality, like Fleur de sel quality salt. Just because, you know, we like you, we care about you.

We want to give you the good stuff. And this is a high quality salt you can buy. Yes. Does it taste different than less quality salt? Yes. 100%. Listen, get a piece of steak. Okay. Finish it with a little Fleur de sel.

Next time you are thinking about it. I got so much steak sitting in my freezer. No worries. Obligatory content warning, no spoilers. There's some adult themes in them, liar episodes. Up to and including unsavory, possibly upsetting things. Graphic violence, a lot of suicide, murder, sexual abuse. So please be kind to yourself.

Proceed at your own risk. Now let's start the sprint. Finally to number 22 with number 17, Perseus. Deer traction. Toyota's got 20 vehicles with available all-wheel drive and four-wheel drive to grip every twist and every turn. Come rain, slick, sleet or snow, leaves, mud, gravel, or sharp turns.

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So first things first, let's head over to the Los Alamos National Laboratory in the early 1940s for a mini-mystery set amongst the backdrop of the Manhattan Project. I'm not here to tell you everything about the Manhattan Project. There are tons of documentaries and books about the Manhattan Project. It's not super mysterious anymore. But basically, at the time, the Manhattan Project was the top... If you could sum it up for me.

What was the Manhattan Project, Alex? It's a top-secret military research development project carried out during World War II and which resulted in the first nuclear weapons ever created on planet Earth. Mmm, okay. Pretty wild. So many good projects happened around that time. Pretty wild.

So many good projects is a relative term, I feel. Yes. Good projects is what they called them illegally. Now, obviously, you can imagine something like this being of great interest to many foreign nations at the time, fucking nuclear bombs. But famously, it was the Soviets who were really the ones who did something about it.

And by 1943, Robert Oppenheimer, who was the nuclear scientist who directed the Los Alamos Labs that made the actual bombs, he was approached by a fellow Berkeley professor about sending nuclear secrets to the Soviet Union. So that's where it first started. But luckily, Oppenheimer was like, no. And also, I'm telling the fucking army about this. So when it was all said and done,

he wasn't a spy, but the names we know of people that did work with the Soviet Union, Klaus Fuchs, Fuchs, Buche. How do you say that? Nobody knows. Harry Gold, David Reglas, Julius, and Ethel Rosenberg, Ted Hall, and George Koval. Those are all names that were associated with the Manhattan Project and Espionage and the Soviet Union.

However, it's fairly well known that the KGB were very into sort of, like, confusing the details of these specific interactions with operatives on U.S. soil over the years. Lots of the names didn't come out till much later, so we don't know too much about the spy operations themselves, other than that the consensus being that the uranium was the thing that was probably the biggest blocker to the Soviets, rather than anything else.

So they probably had pretty much everything else they needed, just due to how good the spying was. So it was really just the uranium. They had, like, they were equal other than uranium, basically, set them back about a year or two at most. And it is within that haze that KGB occluded and used falsehoods to create that we find our first mini-mystery today,

which is about a person who may or may not exist and who is known only as Perseus. So basically, the story goes that according to lots of recovered intel and testimony about the Manhattan Project over the years, some historians and researchers believe that in addition to all the spies we know about, there was one more who we didn't even have an inkling about

until the late 80s, early 90s, when these two KGB kernels were given, like, special access to Soviet government records in order to find stories about the agency and its history that would, like, rehabilitate its global image from being, like... You know, I mean, I think the way that other countries see the CIA is the way we see the KGB, which is, like, a very scary, brutal organization immoral,

does a lot of weird stuff. Like, so they're trying to, like, change that perception, you know? And so they actually opened up the files and tried to, like, find stories to, like, put out there to, like, improve the opinion of the KGB. So in 1990, the KGB had afford intelligence. There's a man called Vadim Kirpchenko

who gave an interview stating that Klaus Fuchs, as many people had long suspected, wasn't the only major spy inside the Manhattan Project. And books started coming out and rumors started swirling, and in the coming years, people who think Perseus is a real part of the story have come to a few conclusions about this person. Now that information is being exchanged, they're being looked for, there's, like, oh, there's this other spy,

maybe he's Perseus, this other spy. So, you know, what do we know about Perseus based on intel? Operating under the theory that there is an extra spy just called Perseus. Apparently, Perseus was a young scientist on the project. He was old enough to have fought in the Spanish Civil War, which lasted from, like, July of 36 to April of 39. And in the early 40s, this same person was also known to have been

in New York City visiting their sick parents when they were approached by the grew to be a new recruit after hitting a person called, hitting up a person called Morris Cohen, who was a Depression-era American communist and Soviet spy. So, they hook up in New York City. This puts recruitment with Cohen sometime between September 1941 and July 1942, because after that, Cohen leaves to fight on the Western Front World War II,

and during the meeting that they have, Perseus basically told them something along the lines of, like, hey, I'm going to go work at Los Alamos. I'm going to go get ingrained there. I'm going to pass you information. I don't even want payment. I just hate this shit so much. And so, here's actually a supposed quote from Perseus.

Do some intel. I'm going to give for Jesse to read here. This is an actual quote from somebody believed to be Perseus. The Pentagon is of the opinion that it will take the Soviet Union decades to harness atomic energy. In the meantime, America will destroy socialism by means of the uranium bomb. Yeah, so it's like Metal Gear Solid shit going on. So, the system was going to be that Morris Cohen's wife, Lona,

who was also a Soviet spy, would go out to Albuquerque to act as the courier for information from Perseus, and she would take that back to the Soviet consulate in New York, and then they would send that back over to the KGB. So, Perseus also apparently worked for an English-born Russian spy in the 1950s called Rudolf Abel, who was imprisoned in 1957 for his role in something called the hollow nickel case, which is a cool other whole case that you can look into about espionage and spying,

before he was exchanged back to the Soviet Union in return for, what's that guy's name? Francis Gary Powers. The U-2 pilot that got shot down. You remember that? Vaguely. Yeah, so he got shot down. This guy, they switched places or whatever.

But that was also another person that apparently worked with Perseus, is Rudolf Abel, who's that spy who got exchanged for that guy. Now, the reason Perseus is a mystery rather than a certainty is that many experts also believe that the idea is a result of a very like Hail Mary-esque disinformation campaign from the KGB that was meant to make Russia feel like they still needed the KGB for protection, but also that the KGB was more capable than MI5 or the CIA, or that they still had plenty of other spies and deep cover on foreign soil

to make them feel safe. And actually also for the KGB, maybe to like take credit, even more than the Russian physicists could for the Soviets ever getting the bomb in the first place. They were trying to be like, hey, thanks to the KGB, thanks to the KGB, we got the nuclear bomb, pretty much. And in fact, the idea most popularly accepted today is that due to the various nicknames all these different spies had,

from youngster to Fogel to Perseus, which is the one that Perseus is based off of, to Mlad, to Mr. X, to Dr. X, Perseus is probably just, this is what people think, he's just amalgamation of details about all the other spies in the project that come from like kind of like fudging some of the details on a bunch of stuff to just make it a little bit more vague. Though most of the stuff people think probably comes from another one of the spies

who is a physicist called Ted Hall, because he has a lot of similar details to Perseus. So first of all, there's cases where the code names Mlad, Perse, and youngster are used to reference both Hall and Perseus. So that's one red flag. And secondly, speaking of youngsters, Perseus was supposed to be young, and Ted Hall was the youngest scientist working on the Manhattan Project. And according to a KGB colonel,

Hall was also recruited in New York City after visiting his parents in New York. And finally, partially because he's so young, Ted Hall lived all the way to 1999 and wasn't even outed as a spy at all until four years later in 1995. So the idea that Perseus would be alive in 1991 makes sense. It all fits. But unfortunately, because of the way the KGB likes to mess with their records and make them confusing and mysterious,

we may never know the truth about Perseus, though it is extremely interesting to think about and kind of reminds me of like, you know, like Shield or Hydra, like Nick Fury type shit. That shit is inspired by stuff like this. Exactly. And that is Perseus. I'm trying to look at more information on this, but this is wild, dude. This is neat.

That's a neat little thing. I can see why you couldn't necessarily make a full episode out of it because there's not a ton out there, but enough to just be like, maybe? Yeah, it's just cool to know that that exists. But yeah, that's Perseus. So let's head over to another mini mystery now about a mysterious person, though this one's being just as famous. This one's just as famous for creating mysteries as they are for being a mystery.

Number 18 is called Teresa Neal. This story began shortly after 9.30 p.m. on Friday, December 3rd, 1926, in Berkshire, England, when a woman got up from her armchair downstairs, went up to kiss her sleeping seven-year-old daughter goodnight, then came back down and drove off by herself into the great unknown in one of those old-timey, like, Morris Crowley, like, PT cruiser looking motor-carriage-esque cars. And that's the last anybody saw her for 11 days.

Damn. So normally this wouldn't be too big of a deal in a big modern country like England in the 1920s, where he would probably... It could be a mental break, anything like that. I mean, people go missing a lot in England. It's a big place. But this particular case kicked off one of the biggest manhunts in the history of the country, mobilized over 1,000 policemen,

and was the first-ever police search using planes ever. Because as it happened this time, our magical disappearing lady was none other than best-selling mystery writer, Dame Agatha Christie. And almost overnight, the tabloids fucking exploded. Police even contacted Dorothy L. Sayers and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, created Lord Peter Wimsey and Sherlock Holmes, basically, to, like, see if they could, like, help, because they're, like, mystery writers.

Yeah. Really dumb, but... I think that's so funny. They were like, You know how to solve mysteries. Yeah, the ones that show up in my own brain. Yeah, it's like the plot of Knives Out. But that only made it even more sensationalized, because now they're weighing in on, like, celebrities,

which is, like, a thing that we still do today for some stupid reason. But it made it huge. Neither of them even found anything, even after Doyle brought one of Christie's gloves to a medium at the time and used it like a bloodhound. What? That didn't work? What? Tried to, like, stick the medium on the glove.

So good. It's so funny. Smell it, girl. Smell it. Now follow the trail. Yeah. Follow. Anyway, pretty... There's a $100 bill waiting for you. Yeah.

There's a car, which is found near Guildford, left abandoned on a steep incline near a place called Newlands Corner, but there was no sign of any foul play or an accident. And as the days wore on, speculation started to go wild. I mean, literally, you know, just the idea that a mystery writer is missing is just, like, too much, right? Theories are, like, flying around. Like, people are just too excited about it, right?

Like, for example, nearby her car was a place called the Silent Pool. It's like a natural spring, natural feature of the land, but it was close to her car, but it was also a place where two kids had died recently. So when reporters, like, made the connection, people were like, oh, she killed herself in there, too. Just like crazy shit like that was happening. So most people thought that was unlikely

that she would be, like, suicidal at this point, though, because she was riding a huge wave of popularity and wealth. Her book, The Murder of Roger Ackroyd, was, like, the third Poirot novel, sixth overall novel. She was, like, basically, like, Dan Brown status at the time, like, hugely successful, rich lady. And people were much more willing to consider the possibility that maybe the whole thing was, like, some kind of proto-ARG,

like, meant to just, like, get publicity going for Agatha Christie by, like, creating a mystery about a mystery lady. But, yeah, things just kept going and going and going. By the second week, stories on the front page of the New York Times in America, people are losing their minds. And finally, 11 days after she first went missing on December 14, 1926, she was finally found safe and sound at the Swan Hydro Hotel up north in the spa town of Harrogate.

Okay. Okay. But the mystery is not even close to over because Christie has zero memory of anything that happened. She had almost no luggage to speak of, and she was checked in under the name of her husband Archie Christie's mistress, Teresa or Nancy Neal. According to police, they deduced that when she left her home,

Christie was at first headed towards London, but then ditched her car on the way for some reason, or maybe crashed it and hopped on a train for Harrogate, checked into a very happening upscale hotel, just sort of hung out and participated in all the balls and dinners and dances like anybody would until she was recognized by Bob Tappin, who played banjo in the hotel band and he called the police. Apparently, her husband came to get her immediately when he heard,

but when he showed up in the lobby, she made him wait until she changed into her evening gown before meeting him there and mentioned almost nothing about it ever again in her life. Now, this was at like the peak of her career right around this time. She was like cranking out successes. She died in the 70s. She was writing books the whole time. Yeah.

She invented Quaro. She invented Miss Marple. She's crushing it. I mean, this is just obviously just a leap and we obviously probably have no idea. But my guess is like, if she's in a particularly stressful time in her career expecting to like pump out books and she's just like the pressure, the pressure, the pressure plus motherhood, whatever, I can see a mental break happening, a manic episode,

something snaps where you're just like, I'm out and you wouldn't remember. Like a lot of people don't remember when that happens and it's possible. Yeah, no doubt. Yeah, no doubt. According to her husband, who she eventually divorced in 1928, probably because of something having to do with the fact that he had a well-known mistress. She lost her memory. Yeah, that also would be such an insane stressor to have to deal with.

God damn. Yeah. Her husband said that she got in the car accident, lost her memory and went AWOL because she hit her head or something. But I'm also going to say that he married his mistress one week after this divorce. Others think maybe she planned the whole thing to make her husband feel bad without realizing how famous she was and how crazy all the newspapers would go

and just pretended like it never happened because she was embarrassed about it. But a biographer called Andrew Norman thinks that it was more like a fugue state or trans, like you said, brought on by intense depression. Apparently Archie had already asked her for a divorce months before and on the night of December 3rd when she disappeared, Christie left the house because they had a fight because her husband told her that he was going on a trip with friends out of town

and she wasn't invited. So here's a quote about that for Mathis to read. Sink back and turn it up. Nice. Rev it up at Toyota.com. Toyota, let's go places. They all come with standard features and some sweet, sweet tech. Check out this versatile lineup at Toyota.com.

Toyota, let's go places. I believe she was suicidal. Her state of mind was very low and she writes about it later through the character of Celia in her autobiographical novel, Unfinished Portrait. But whatever the true story was, this was only a minor hiccup in Dame Christie's career, which continued well into the 70s. She eventually remarried to the famous archaeologist, Sir Max Malawan

and didn't even mention her missing 11 days in her own autobiography. Now, since that was a story of a mysterious writer at the center of her own mystery, let's shift gears to a mysterious group of musicians at the center of their own mystery. I need to stress that this story is very, very famous and what's crazy is the way we're telling it is from Agatha Christie's perspective. But at the time, people were like, F this lady. This is all publicity stuff and this is all trying to sell books like Mathis was saying.

The public was not kind to her at the time. So if she was going through something, I feel terrible for her. Like you were saying the autobiography was like, she's probably just going through some like a few say, like I feel bad because I was like, wow, what a hack. At least she didn't have fucking Twitter. Imagine Twitter. Twitter had been like that girl.

Remember that girl on YouTube who made those videos where she was like, kind of asking for help in the videos. And everyone was like, what's her problem? What's the matter? And people tuned in, but like no one helped. Yeah. In the 20s, when it was even more OK to be racist and sexist, it'd be a cesspool. Anyway, that was a mysterious writer at the center of her own mystery.

Let's shift gears to a mysterious group of musicians at the center of their own mystery to Beatles in another universe. Actually, I started this as like a me trying to make a sequel to Andrew W. UK before realizing it would work much better as something I have invented recently. You might have already heard of these. They are called many mysteries. This is number 19. It is called the Division Bell.

Fairly late in their long career during a world tour for their album, the Division Bell in 1994. Legendary experimental psych rock band Pink Floyd asked Columbia Records to make them an almost 200 foot long airship, which was called the Division Bell with an E like a jungle cruise boat to fly between the various concert venues, like to like to represent like the bands being like on disc four or Final Fantasy, like doing side quests around the world.

Yeah. And along with that, as a publicity stunt, there was a press kit, which included this message, which I'm going to have Jesse read for us now. A spokesperson for Pink Floyd is issued the following statement. You have spotted the Pink Floyd airship. Do not be alarmed. Pink Floyd have sent their airship to North America to deliver a message. The Pink Floyd airship is headed towards a destination where all will be explained upon arrival.

Pink Floyd will communicate. Yeah. So at first, people weren't really sure what that meant exactly. Kind of a weird message. But in June of that same year, 1994, an anonymous remailing service posted to a newsnet group called alt music dot Pink Floyd. And they had this to say, which Mathis will read for us now. Just in case you don't know, an anonymous remailing service is like,

it's like a way to preserve your anonymity where you can like send your message to a service that will then post your message. So this is for you to read, Mathis. Good Lord. OK. The message. My friends, you have heard the message Pink Floyd is delivered. But have you listened?

Perhaps I can be your guide, but I will not solve the enigma for you. All of you must open your minds and communicate with each other, as this is the only way the answers can be revealed. I may help you, but only if obstacles arise. Listen, read, think, communicate. Holy crap. If I don't promise you the answers, you would go. Well, if I don't promise you the answers, would you go?

Publius. Publius. Publius. Publius. Publius. Publius. Publius. But now in 2022, after a decade of and a half of movies,

and video games doing ARGs and stuff to help them go viral online, like somebody like me, I'm already in 100%. You know what I mean? After I read this, I'm like, oh, this is going to be a game. I'm excited, right? Sure. But back then, people needed a little more clarity, I guess, before they started checking the source code web pages

for secret messages and stuff like that. So there's two more excerpts for Mathis to read and that same really nice soothing voice. I mushed them together into one big honking one for your listening convenience. But this is like the follow-up that kind of like explained a little more what was going on. You can tell I've been playing a little too much Final Fantasy 14

for all those Final Fantasy 14 people, because as soon as I read Listen, Read, Think, I could just only hear... I was thinking Hear, Feel, Think as well. I was on the same... I was on the same... I was on the same boat. I'm like, no! I was like, are they a giant crystal?

I was like, yeah, that's what I was like. There's a few people in our audience who get this. All right. As some have suspected, the Division Bell is not like its predecessors. Although all great music is subject to multiple interpretations, in this case, there is a central purpose and a designed solution. For the ingenious person or group of persons who recognizes this and where this information points to, a unique prize has been secreted.

How and where? The Division Bell. Listen again. Look again. As your thoughts will steer you, leading the blind while I stared out the stele in your eyes. Lyrics, artwork, and music will take you there. To validate the trust of those who believe as well as to reconcile the doubt of others,

I have gone to great lengths to plan the following display of communication. Monday, July 18th, East Rutherford, New Jersey, approximately 10.30 p.m., flashing white lights. There is an enigma. Trust. Yeah. This is pretty wild. What?

Yeah, especially. It's so silly. It's so silly. Especially for 1994. It's pretty wild. Right. But pretty quickly, people realize that this was the date of an upcoming Pink Floyd concert in the area.

So eyes were on the show that night, sure enough, in a pattern of lights that were arranged in front of the stage at Giant Stadium. That actually did spell out the words Enigma Publius for a few seconds and the song Keep Talking, and amazingly, because it was 1994, there actually was footage of it. So I've got that footage to show you right now. Oh, shit. Yo.

Yo. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So you guys can sort of describe to the people that you can see. It's a light show. Got some lights flickering with the music playing. The way you described it, I'm going to have to go back a little bit, but what you described it is I thought it was going to be like a quick thing.

It straight up is just like broadcast in front of the stage. Yeah. And like light bulbs in front of the stage. Like it is, you're in Times Square. It is. Yeah. It's like clearly meant to be there, intentionally there. The signal did show up at 955 rather than 1030, like they said,

but that might have had something to do more with the venue, like deciding on a last minute, like start time change or something like that to deal with the curfew or something. Because we do know that the show started much earlier than intended that night. So maybe that's where the timing was off. But then this tour finished out over the rest of the year or so, and nothing else of note really happened until in September 1996. The anonymous remailing service that Publius was using was suddenly shut down by its

creators in order to prevent mounting legal threats to the company. And there was no longer any verifiable way for the poster to communicate with the use net board and the game suddenly seemed to be over. Since then, there hasn't been much official activity surrounding the mystery, but there have been a few clues that have shown up over the years. And I'm going to get into them now. Number one on pulse, which is a video of a concert in London from 1994. You can see another instance of the word enigma appearing on stage.

This time in the background during the song, another brick in the wall part two. They seem to have put this clip out this like whole pulse show out again on the later years box set in 2019. But weirdly, that version of it has seemed seems to have deliberately removed the few view the full view of the word enigma from the video. Like you can still see edges of the words and some of the shots, but it's the same thing except that they've edited out that part, which is really strange to me.

But here is an image of that stage decoration. And you can describe it for the people again. Oh, wow. So it's a it's like a half circle with a kind of creepy, scratchy text. And it says enigma. And then there's also other scratches and stuff all over the numbers. You know, like math equations. It definitely looks like like one of those like Mr. Detective.

You could have said those. Yeah. Yes. 100 percent. In the 1994 mini disc release of their 1987 album, a momentary lapse of reason, which features an image of a man in a right field and a man standing on the edge of a cliff in parts of its artwork. The words Publius and enigma were inserted into the art just for the

mini disc version in the lower left and right corners of them, respectively. So let me just drop the images in. You're going to have to kind of scroll down to the ones, but they highlighted them on this web page. You can kind of like so you can see the magnified words a little better. Oh, yeah. They're just sort of like Photoshopped onto these images. If you've seen the album, you can check out the album and see the art.

It just kind of looks like it was added there on purpose to be mysterious in my opinion. Sure. Then in the 2003 version of their concert DVD Pink Floyd Live at Pompeii, you can allegedly hear someone say the words Publius enigma, possibly a couple of times in the intro to the song. One of these days, I'm going to cut you into little pieces, which you can listen to and try to hear starting at about 424, 425 in this video right here.

So go ahead and click through to that and try and listen to the like sort of. It's like an intro sound. I don't really understand. It's like a droning sound at like 424, 425 starts. You can kind of hear a voice in there that's maybe saying Publius enigma. Do you hear it? It is very. It's very if people are curious when they can hear it exactly.

It's it's right. I just want to confirm it. It's right before it's at four. It's the best place to start would be like 424, like Alex said. But the first noise that sounds like a voice happens right as the screen switches to like a desert with rocks. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly right.

It makes it like a little creepier and weird. But admittedly, there's definitely something being said there. I don't know if they're saying anything specific. It you know, it's it's one of those like play it backwards. It's weird. You know, the same band. Yeah, literally that this is the band, right? And I mean, I guess their fans are kind of famous for this type of thing.

Yeah. But finally, and this one's weird because it's in the same later year set where they cut the clip from the other video. But during a scene of the movie version of the album Endless River from 2014, during the song Alan Z two, you can make out the phrase Publius enigma on an alien computer screen in the image like new for 2019. I think actually. I mean, I know it's a little bit occluded,

but it's obviously it says Publius enigma in there. Like, yeah, I can definitely see it. Oh, yeah. No, yeah, it's in there. I think it's supposed to be on the view screen of like an alien spaceship. So it's like not supposed to be in English kind of. Hmm. Oh, well, yeah.

No, at first I was like, what are they talking about? But I see it. It's totally the main text. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, even in 2019, this is still popping up. There's been a few really intentional seeming clues, right? Over the years.

But nobody really knows for sure exactly what the enigma itself is or what it's supposed to be. For example, English writer and humorous Douglas Adams, who was a friend of the band who, I guess, named the division bill album, said he'd never heard anything about any sort of weird game or anything like that. Didn't think Pink Floyd would really even be into something like that. But we did confirm that in the past, the band had sent messages into the audience using their lights before,

where one time Dave Gilmore's daughter did it to wish him a happy wedding to his new wife. So they at least had history of manipulating the lights of their stage show to do stuff. There was also an interview with Pink Floyd's lighting guy, Mark Brickman, attributing it to some ex CIA or FBI guy that had some kind of crazy secret message idea that he wanted to try with their album art. And as wild as that sounds, according to Pink Floyd drummer Nick Mason, that's pretty close to exactly what happened. And here's a quote from him in 2005 for Jesse to read that proves it.

That was Floyd done by EMI. They had a man working for them who adored puzzles. He used to work for the Reagan administration. His job then would be to be in meetings with the president. And when Reagan would say, let's bomb these people, he would say, that's not a good idea, sir. He was working for EMI and suggested that a puzzle be created that could be followed on the web. The prize was never given out.

To this day, it remains unsolved. The prize was something like a crop of trees planted in a clear cut area of a forest. Or something to that effect. It was not to be a prize of some tangible thing, but rather a touchy-feely sort of gift that was more of a philanthropic thing than something you could hang on a wall. Yeah. So that's pretty straightforward.

However, back in 1996, there was a quote from the Pink Floyd fanzine brain damage in the regular Q&A section they had with a character called Uncle Custard. That seemed to hint at a slightly different, more intentionally artistic motivation. Yeah, but they have brain damage. Apparently Uncle Custard was like a made up character who could be literally anybody working at the magazine. Right. Different people wrote different ones.

But for this specific response that I'm going to have Mathis read right now, it's meant to have been attributed to the editor and publisher of the magazine, who is a guy called Jeff Jensen. Jeff Jensen. Jeff Jensen. A real guy called Jeff Jensen. Is it not working? I don't see nothing.

What do I do wrong here? It might just be too much text for a Zoom. Oh, perhaps. Zoom does have a capacity. I can drop it in Twitter. There you go. Yeah. Let's get it.

Okay. Here it is. Yep. I see it. Is it Q? Like question? Yeah. It's like he's reading the Q and then the A.

Gotcha. Question. What is the meaning of it all? And what is the treasure to be had? Answer from Uncle Custard. As the infamous Q is emphasized, you humans are so limited. This is a project for all those out there with higher IQs. It does require a mastery of diverse languages along with a lot of spare time.

Now get with it. The lights were brighter. The meaning is worn inside out. The bell has told and the surrogate band is coming back to life. The answer lies nonlinearly within the paradox of the theme of the division bell. Communication breakdown. Hint. Watch the learning to fly video.

It may also involve an anomaly in the time space continuum. There is an obvious solution and you do not need to be a Floyd historian to figure it out. Winners will receive official entry into the Mensa Society and some dry ice to cool down all those neural pathways in your brain. It is important to note that neither an eye nor anyone involved with this zine will enter into any correspondence on this topic. It's a puzzle for you devised by the one who loves you enough to drive you mad. Besides, I'm much too busy creating crop circles and executing think tank projects for the Pentagon.

Okay. Yeah. But there you go. That's the enduring mystery of the Publius Enigma. What do you think it is? What do you think that? What do you make of that? I don't know.

It's like. You got me literally watching the learning to fly video right now. And it's like. It's a thing. All right. It's a thing. I mean, this man did just become a bird. So that's.

Yeah. There's this like wild website called like Publius Enigma dot blog or something like that. It's like some guy who's like writing and it's like very, very interesting. He's like writing and it's like very recent. And it's like an in-depth thing. And I didn't really like. I didn't really like go deep on it because it kind of made me feel like I was like reading

somebody's personal diary, but worth a shot if you're really, really, really interested in that one to hear somebody who may or may not be real and may or may not be actually connected to it to kind of give you some insight into it or just might be that guy who likes puzzles, making a giant puzzle for people. And he gets off on making puzzles. It's true. It could be a lot. I mean, that's, you know, that's the, that's the romance of the mystery.

Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? That was number 19. This is number 20. The obelisk in the woods. Next up, I have another alien one for you guys as a sort of tribute to the Mathis kin out there.

This was, this was a mystery search video that I did back in the day. It's got some really fantastic evidence. It's generally a pretty scary encounter. The only reason I'm doing it as a mini mystery instead of a full mystery is because one, I'm not sure if I've mentioned it before. I may have mentioned it once or twice before though. I'll probably be going into a little bit more depth this time about it anyway. So don't worry about it.

And two, because of how much doubt has been cast over this story in years since it first went down. Oh, okay. That's another reason why I was like not so into like doing a whole hour and a half on it, but I still think it's a really cool story. I'm going to tell you the classic version of the story first and then we're going to follow up with the doubts people are having about it after. Sound good?

Yeah, I'm in. Okay. Azure Standard presents David's Corner with founder and organic pioneer David Stelzer. It is certainly true that gratitude is the key to abundance. The more grateful we are for the little things in our life, the small blessings, the more those blessings begin to grow into our life to make our lives full and rewarding. I am so grateful here at Azure for our wonderful customers and team that I am surrounded with every day.

And I feel like every day we get more wonderful people involved in Azure. And I am so excited about that as we're moving forward. And I tell you today, if you're thinking about the small blessings in your life and you can be grateful for those things, greater blessings will happen. That was David's Corner presented by David Stelzer, founder and CEO of Azure Standard, America's premier supplier of organic foods and over 12,000 healthful products. Join our community for free at azurestandard.com. So anyway, this psychiatrist up in Seattle, this guy called Dr. Jonathan Reed.

He's out hiking the cascades with his dog, who was a golden retriever named Susie, in October of 1996, when suddenly the dog starts sniffing at something it found very interesting in the bushes before bolting off up the path. Dr. Reed, here's her dog, his dog barking like crazy up the path. Here's fighting sounds, starts to get freaked out. And he's worried that it might have been the bear that they had seen earlier that day on the hike. But here is a quote.

I was going to have Jesse read it. I don't know if he's good to read. Are you good? I'm fine. I'm scratching my leg. It's itchy. Oh, okay. That's a deep scratch, my good friend.

I got an itchy scratch. I have a quick quote for you to read there. You can go back down after that. The beast was moving at lightning speed and vibrating simultaneously. The beast grabbed Susie and began to tear her into shreds. Oh, actually, I'm sorry. This is actually a much longer quote. There you go.

Oh, my God. Oh, yeah. That was much longer. Reed yelled and caught the attention of the beast, who stared at him in a fierce menacing fashion. Somehow, Reed managed to crack the beast on the head, supposedly killing it. The creature was about four to five feet tall, but had more mature features than its child-like size would indicate.

The creature was wearing a one-piece, seamless black garment, which rejuvenated itself when cut or torn. Reed exhausted from the emotional, adrenaline-flowing ordeal, rested for a time, contemplating what to do. After a period of two hours, Reed heard a humming sound in the forest and followed it until he saw a black obelisk hovering above the ground. Fighting off heavy, electrostatic-laden air, Reed managed to touch the obelisk. Eventually, the humming stopped.

He neither saw nor heard anyone or anything else in the vicinity of the black obelisk. Whoa, time out. There's a lot to this story. Yeah, there's a whole lot going on here that's very, very strange. You've never mentioned this before. OK. Well, that's good. But I know it's hard to hear stories about things like black obelisks without any sort

of evidence. So here's a video of it. Oh, shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up your mouth. So try and give everybody play by play.

This is like Blair Witch Project if the camera was somehow even worse. I don't. He's show. He's panting heavily like he's massively out of breath. He is looking at the figure that kind of looks like the figure at 46 seconds is he's laying on the ground. He's dressed all in black, like black, almost spandex. And he has a face that kind of looks like he's the third member of Daft Punk.

Yes. Oh, wait. Hold on. Hold on. At like 40, like 56 seconds, it kind of focuses in. It definitely has that like, I am an alien from a movie. Look. Interesting.

I'm waiting for that. Cause I'm at like 49 seconds. Hang on. It is. The audio is very creepy. I'll give it that as a very creepy. We were playing a scary video game. Yeah.

And this is the footage we found. This would be great. Like it definitely has like a creepy like. Because he's like. The one something that immediately makes me a little confused is he makes these extremely violent retching sounds, but the camera doesn't seem to move like he's bending over and retching. Right. It still kind of like stays in the same spot by here.

I would, I would jump to like, you don't hear. I would jump to like 150. 150 or so. 150. All right. Yeah. It doesn't, it isn't an obelisk that looks like it's standing straight up. It looks like it's down on the ground.

Yeah. I never really understood why they call it an obelisk actually. It's more like a triangle. Craft. It looks like a black triangle. You can see it again. I think around three minutes. Pretty clearly.

He does a very good job at acting extremely. Like out of breath and panicked. Yeah. It's certainly an interesting, it looks kind of like an escape pod. If you had to like sci-fi it, you know what I mean? Yeah. It looks like it's from like a Denis Villeneuve movie. Actually.

So about three minute mark. The end of it, when he gets further away, it certainly becomes much clearer of a video. Still terrible, terrible footage. Like all things terrible. I mean, if, you know, we're taking this as if it were true, you know, all things considered, what we're looking at is real. If that's the case, then I guess the camera quality would be bad because there was the electrostatic field when he was approaching apparently.

Not to mention, it's also 1996. True, true. I mean, like Jesse's right around, like it seems to clear up as he gets further and further away. And then the body's a little weird just because you do see the blood. You see where he gets whacked, where he got like hitting the head. But that face Jesse described as like that kind of a Halloweeny like alien mask. It does have that very rubber look.

It does not look like it is the face of a creature that lived and breathed. Very, very true. I kind of agree with you. So then he sees that his dog has been reduced to a pile of ash. And he's freaking out about that. But amazingly, he still has the presence of mind to wrap what he now believed to be an alien creature's body up in a thermo blanket and tosses it in his car and takes it home and throws it in his freezer in the garage.

Then the next day, he takes the alien out of the freezer. And as he starts to film video of the creature, it quote, had miraculously come back to life. He showed the aliens to a couple of friends, took some photos and video clips. But soon Dr. Reed began to notice strange men following him wherever he went. Eventually these men began to directly accost and terrorize him in public and at home, really just causing him extreme distress until finally one day they straight up broke into his house and ransacked it. All his evidence was destroyed and the alien was gone and terrified.

Dr. Reed went underground and lived off the grid for two years and quote could not even get could not get even one UFO group to help him with his story. But one video of the alien did get out. And here it is. Get out of town, get out of town. So give everybody a play by play. All right. So that you want to take this.

No, you got this. No, you got this. Well, it's just right now it looks like the body is wrapped in plastic laid down on some sort of table or cardboard. It's like a shiny metallic foil. And we're looking at it. We can't really see anything. It's just if the body is supposedly wrapped in foil with blue bands keeping the foil around

the body. Yeah. I'd say it's like that. It's like that. Rolo's foil. Yeah, you get that. Rolo's exactly what it is. It's that.

That's what it looks like. It's like that reflective shiny foil. And you told me you said this guy comes back to life. I say that allegedly in this video, there is life in this body. It's kind of like the five minute mark. Maybe five. What is this? Actually six minutes.

You can see, I assume the dude turning the head of this creature in the back appears to be like bloody or something. It's like black goo and it gets all over the gloves and he starts like pulling at parts of the head. Okay. I'm watching him currently peel it all back. Yeah. Like this black goo is seeping out of it.

But the problem is, is that even for a camera of this nature, the face is just not detailed enough. I agree. That's. Yeah. Everything else you can see, like even on the foil, you can see all the different crinkles in the face. Just doesn't.

It seems like it's just a round object that like, I don't know, it just, I don't know. It's just not driving me crazy because it's neat. It's super neat, but also looks really, really scary pieces of footage to me that they're really like memorable pieces of footage. They've always stuck in my memory. But yeah, it's a little convenient. How low? These are like one.

What's the one that's in the 100s, 144 P. Yeah. They're like that. It's tiny. So yeah, I'm watching him touch the body now myself. I watched him like open up the wrapping and shit. It's hard. It's hard to tell.

Yeah. It's just, it looks like there's no detail to this face. And like, like Jesse's been, like we've been saying, it's just like, is that the camera though? Or is that the model? A mix? Yeah. I know.

I know. Anyway, I will link these to the, I'll link video clips to these in the, in the reddit. If you guys want to go look for them at r slash Chilluminati pod, I'll try and, I'll just, should I just post my show outlines in there? Yeah. Sure. Is it fine? Yeah.

I mean, if that's what you want to do. I mean, should I post them on Patreon? Is that? Yeah. Patreon for sure. Is that the thing that people want? It's the part of the $10 tier. Oh, okay.

I don't, yeah. What? And my other part of me is like, well, what, what species of alien is commonly seen that looks like this? Cause the thing, this thing has like the closest you could describe it to it is it has the nose and mouth features of a gray in that there is not really a nose and the mouth is a slit, but the eyes are like also just slits. Like they're very tiny.

I guess we could be close, but it's still like not great. And his head is just looks like a Q tip. Yeah. Yeah. It looks, it looks pretty good, but still not that good. It's like enough to be remarkable, but still not very realistic. I'm very interested to get to the next part where you're telling me like what are some of the doubts are.

But before we do, you said there's life in this video. Do you know like at what point that supposedly happens? I, I, this is just allegedly a video of a living alien. Right. He's saying that, that like at the time this was recorded, it was still alive apparently. Yeah. Okay. Cool.

All right. Cool. Yeah. So in the four years that followed, according to him, the constant attention never abated, even once resulting in him being shot. But ever since he resurfaced in 1998, began telling his story on tour and then he went on a couple art Bell shows into 1999. But then on May 2nd, 2002, something really weird happened.

That day on the Jeff Wrench show, two guests that he had on Bill Warner and Denise Charvet said they knew the supposed Dr. Jonathan Reed, except his actual name was Jonathan Bradley Rudder, and that he didn't actually have any degrees or PhDs. And that the whole time that he said he was in hiding, he was actually just living at his house in Seattle. So well, anyway, after that went down, he laid low for a while, it seemed like. And I saw on UFO watchdog that he had started a new website up in like 2008 or 2009 or something like that.

But the link was dead. And then there was a factor faked about him where they were able to hoax the video. They were able to recreate the video from scratch, which didn't make him look very good, didn't prove anything. But they also did some like voice stress test on his audio that they said proved that he was lying to. So I don't know about that. But all I can find online now is this one YouTube channel that seems kind of like a

fan site that's like pro Dr. Reed and like trying to prove his innocence almost. And it has like these weird videos on there and I wouldn't say they're convincing. Unless they're complete falsehoods, they're just really bold. So here's a re upload of one that I found as an example. For you here. Check that out. Kind of get people to run down. It's like a 15 minute long video.

It's an. Skipping ahead here. Yeah. I mean, you just got to get the vibe, right? Yeah. The audio quality is rough. There is it. At two minutes, 21 seconds, there is, in fact, what they are saying is an image of the thing

that we watched a video of and I'm going to let you know, it looks more like dark side from comics than it does the alien that we saw before. It does not look like like what I just watched. It does look like a detailed painting of whatever it is that somebody was imagining we saw. Yeah. It shows like this artifact that he found shows like allegedly shows his PhDs or whatever, all this stuff. So it's like this weird, like, I don't know, like I almost want to call it disinformation.

I don't know what exactly you'd say. But the weird thing about it is that the channel that was uploading these things, which is called ODC link, which is like O-D-I-S-E-A link has the same name as the URL for the website on UFO watchdog, which is also called ODC link, like the one that he went on to make. So maybe it's actually him making these videos. I don't know. Just go to, sorry, go to nine minutes and 52 seconds in the video and is a very clear

shot of, I think, what we were supposed to be seeing in that alien body, 952, nine minutes and 52 seconds right around there. Oh, yeah. It looks like it could be that model. I mean, I think it's lying on the reflective bedding as well. I think it is supposed to be the model. Yeah. Then it goes right into his apparent qualifications or whatever.

Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. So yeah, there are some higher res images of this thing. He did take this around and tour it and stuff and show it off and talk about it, but it's just a weird thing. It leaves a weird taste in my mouth that is both very delicious and very disappointing

at the same time. Somehow. Yeah. In an alien body, you would think that the government wouldn't want them taking the body around and touring with it and talking about it or spreading the information or even showing the videos of it. But on the other hand, disinformation benefit of like maybe letting some of these stories leak out into the public, even if they are real, are going to might be, you know, be

given the public more reason to believe, not to believe because it seems like he's an insane person. You discredit him a little, say he didn't go to these colleges and then bam, you've got like a Bob Lazar situation all over again. Exactly. It's really just. It's also questionable if he can be trusted at all. Right.

Exactly. It's never, he's never going to be really trustworthy ever again. No, no. But that's number 20. I'm just like, what kind of alien would this be like the violent attacking of a dog like that's very. It looks like a gray to me like in like just if we're like saying, if I had to, if I had to say one type of alien that it looked like, I would say gray.

Yeah. It's closest to a gray. Sure. It's so weird. But it looks very like almost like the Koopas from the Mario from the got that Q tip like had the little tiny head guys, goombas, not bring up anything to make it just sit on this particular topic for the rest of the episode. If you want, I'm fine with it.

It's just a really good alien story. It's a shame that it's so kind of like not so legit anymore, but just really good vids, really exciting one. But up next, we got number 21. What Billy Jack saw feels good though. You know what I mean? Number 21, 21 down. Yeah.

You're almost the word. We're going to actually wrap it up. What's the name of that movie? Were they cheated gambling? Is it just 21? It's called Now You See Me. Never seen it. Oh yeah.

Yeah. It's called Now That's Why You See Me 21. Now that's why you see me. And now this is why I'm gone. Now that's why you see music. 21. Never mind. Anyway, this one's a mini mystery because it's kind of an update to a mystery that

I do believe we've done on the show before at some point again, I'm not 100% sure. But I also know for sure that it's an Unsolved Mysteries episode, so maybe that's where I'm getting my wires crossed. But this is kind of like one of those updates to an Unsolved Mysteries. If you want to think about it that way, where they kind of like come back later and it's like, this guy did this other thing later and he went to jail. It's all good. Like, you know that thing?

It's kind of like one of those. Yeah. Got it. But it's like an update to the case. So real quick before we get into that, I'm just going to give you a little refresh on the case itself. First, just to give you the background in case you don't have it. Little after midnight on August 23rd, 1987, two high school age boys, Don Henry and Kevin

Ives, set out to go hunting in Alexander, Arkansas. Based on evidence recovered a few hours later, it was believed they were doing this thing called spotlighting, where you blind stuff with a flashlight before shooting at it. If it sounds like that should be illegal, that's because it is illegal and you're not supposed to do that when you're hunting. But the reason we can only guess at what they were doing is because later that morning at like 4 a.m. workers on a 75 car Union Pacific freight train spotted them lying motionless on the tracks, partially covered by a green tarp about 300 feet ahead of the train before

the train ran straight over them and then traveled another 1000 feet before the train was ever able to come to a stop. They never found a tarp, but they did find the bodies. According to the witnesses, the boys didn't move at all or seem to be aware of the train at all. And for the first few months, the official reason for this behavior was because the medical examiner said they had smoked 20 joints and fell asleep on the tracks, but nobody bought that.

That seems fucking stupid. Like who on earth has ever smoked 20 joints in a row? That's just that's the thing. Yeah. You would like. It sounds like something someone who doesn't smoke anything would say. Yeah, it's like it sounds made up. They injected 20 heroin.

So they did a second autopsy found they only smoked like one or two joints, way more normal. And then they found stab wound cut in the shirt and they found the possibility that one of the kids heads was bashed in by his own rifle. So they officially changed it from an accidental death to a quote, definite homicide, implying that the boys had been at least attacked if not straight up killed before they were crushed by the train, or at least maybe one of them was strangely a week before the boys were killed on the tracks, a man in military fatigues was spotted in the same area who opened fire on law enforcement before vanishing into the darkness.

And on the night of the boys death, a similar looking man was also spotted in the area nearby. This and other details led to a popularly held theory that maybe these kids saw like some kind of drug deal or like one of those airplane flyover drug drops, something like that, that they shouldn't have seen, they had to be killed for it. And that's basically where unsolved mysteries left it. But here's my big update on it. Over the years, Kevin's mother Linda Ives hadn't given up the search and she was more than receptive in 2016 when she was contacted by newly sober WWF wrestler Billy Jack Haynes

saying that he witnessed the murder of her children. What? What? Apparently back in 1987, the same year that he was live on pay-per-view in Detroit, Michigan at WrestleMania three, he was also transporting and trafficking cocaine throughout the southern United States. And one summer night, that job led him to Alexander, Arkansas. He also apparently was more than willing to name names to the authorities.

There's a quote from his six minute confession video for Mathis to read right here. What's this guy's name? Billy Joe. Billy Jack Hayes. Billy Jack Hayes, man. I don't know shit about wrestling. I was also an enforcer who provided muscle to other parts of the criminal, this is what I think he sounds like, other parts of the criminal element to ensure that their illegal

businesses dealings were collected upon. In August in 1987, I was contacted by an Arkansas criminal politician who was asked if I would provide muscle at an Arkansas drug transaction while conducting security for the drug money dropped by witness, the murders of two young boys, Kevin Ives and Don Henry. I'm sorry. What was that? I'm sorry. What was that?

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Professional wrestlers. They were moided by other individuals who were working for the same criminal politician. Their bodies were placed on the railroad tracks to be mutilated by a passing train. I'm standing here putting my life on the line telling you that I could very well be killed. They have to be taken down.

Yeah. Good job. I'm glad, Billy. I'm glad somebody was there. It would have been more appropriate if it was the undertaker. Yeah, it's true. Here is the whole video if you want to see it. I'll see if I was dead on spoilers.

It's also a go fund me to pay the attorney to try and reopen the case. This man. You don't sound that much not like him. I don't really disagree. I don't know if this guy would say moida. He just doesn't have any teeth. This guy looks more like he's going to say diabetes at me than he would say mortar. I mean, he is an older gentleman now, so yeah, this is reality, man.

Don't hide nothing. That's what he said. Moida. Yeah. But yeah, don't get moided. I don't know. Do you buy this guy? Um, man, I have no reason not to, but it seems like a stretch.

You know what I mean? Like, I don't know why you just jump in and be like, let me add myself to this story. Yeah, but apparently he's like a no liar. Well, there you go. That explains one of those people who was like desperate for fame after his wrestling career was over and he's like always been grasping it. Even when he was famous, he would just like say crazy shit. Oh, you'd be like, I'm going to kill him.

He's like, he's like, I'm going to kill McMahon. I'm going to. Who doesn't want to, though? I know. He was saying that like it was real, but yeah, that's a fucking weird little thing that might be true. Linda. Linda eyes posted on YouTube about the case as recently as 2019, but sadly, she

passed away due to an unknown infection in June of last year at the age of 71. Well, regardless of everyone involved in the case. So God rest her soul. And with that, wouldn't you know it, my friends, but we are out of time. I guess we'll just have to finish this out next week in many mysteries. Part two, part three of two, are you there? Are you? Are you?

Wait, wait, wait, wait. Topic is an episode worthy topic alone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know what? Tell you what, I'm going to give you a clue about Mr. E 22. I'm fine with it.

I'm just your surprise. I'm going to give you. I'm going to give you a clue about it. Ready? Listen up. This is your clue. I'm listening. If the title of each episode part was reduced to a single digit, you might be able to figure

it out. If the wait, say that one more title of each episode part was reduced to a single digit. You might be able to figure it out. See you guys next week for the finale. Is it going to be the Greenstone part three? No, I'll see you guys later. All right. All right.

I don't know, dude. I do. This is insane. Come on. We're going to control the show now. No, I got it. It's a lost man. I've lost it.

Oh my God. All right, guys, next week. Goodbye. Bye. Me and my wife were sitting outside indulging on our porch one night enjoying ourselves. I needed to go to the bathroom, so I stepped back inside and after a few moments, I hear my wife go, holy shit, get out here. So I quickly dash back outside.

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