Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 141 - John Wayne Gacy Part 1: Roots of Evil

Episode Date: February 22, 2022

Patreon - http://www.patreon.com/chilluminatipod BUY OUR MERCH - http://www.theyetee.com/collections/chilluminati Special thanks to our sponsors this episode Manscaped - http://www.manscaped.com Promo Code: Chill20 Joybird - http://www.joybird.com/chill Honey - http://www.joinhoney.com/chill Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - http://www.youtube.com/user/superbeardbros Art Commissioned by - http://www.mollyheadycarroll.com Theme - Matt Proft End song - POWER FAILURE - https://soundcloud.com/powerfailure Video - http://www.twitter.com/digitalmuppet

Boost your savings and benefits at City Market with a free 30-day trial of a Boost by City Market membership. You'll get two times fuel points on groceries and merchandise in-store with pickup or delivery. Your fuel points add up as you shop, too, and you won't even have to drive to earn them. Plus, get free delivery on any order over $35. More savings, more benefits, on all the things you need with Boost by City Market. A new level of membership has arrived. Sign up for a free 30-day trial today at citymarket.com slash boost. $35 order minimum, restrictions apply. See site for details. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Chilluminati podcast, episode 141. As always,

I am your one of your hosts, Mike Martin, joined by the Ren and Stimpy of LA. Is that good? Ren Stimpy, yes. I like that one. Oh, this is actually, this is actually a tough one. It's a tough one. I believe, I believe I'm the Stimpy of the two of us. 100%. But you are like a big red man who is just very similar, and I'm not, and I don't have a beat, and you know, I look, I look kind of like Narcos right now. Like I'm, I'm, I got like a Narcos vibe. You do have a Narcos vibe, but yeah. What is a Narcos vibe? What does that mean? Like Nar, like the dude from Narcos, probably. I haven't seen that. You know, I just look like a drug dealer from Columbia or something. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Got it. Got it. Got it. But like you deal.

Oh, that Netflix show that was super popular for like a couple seasons, and then it wasn't. One season. Exactly one season. It was one season. Okay. I vaguely remember seeing like Twitter talk about a similar show, and then I never heard about it ever again. Yeah, it was all right. It was okay. This is the thing, you know, that was special times back then. You know, Orange is the new black, all these new streaming shows that actually, you know, people enjoyed. It was very fun, very, very imagineer kind of time where new exciting things were being put out all the time, unlike our Patreon, which actually new and exciting things are always happening on Patreon all the time. Yeah. You know what we were just talking about? Reddit listeners,

all you people out there, you know what we were just talking about before you jumped on, Jesse, was what insane documentary or whatever we're going to watch next. And I'm going to just announce it because it's too good because we just, we just arrived at this. The next time you go to Patreon.com slash Silminati pod, which let's be honest, we were all just waiting for me to say it. It's going to be the movie that became that began the legend, guys, the most adventures documentary that got them a television deal with the travel channel, the original thing that convinced Zach Baggins that the paranormal was real. He talks about it in the intro of every episode of the show. That story that he talks about, we're going to watch that documentary this week.

That's the chill tracks of this month. So in addition to the minisodes of which there are multitudes to, in addition to the art, in addition to the presale and in addition to all the good dope shit that we always talk about, now you can hear us come to movie commentaries and watch along with us or just put them out in your car. I'm not going to tell if you don't actually watch the movie. I don't care what you do with the trash that we make for you to listen to. How dare you? What are you talking about? Just put it on and listen to it whenever you want. I don't care what you do with it. Patreon.com slash Silminati pod, the finest website. TM. I just thought you were going to be like Patreon.com slash Silminati pod. I don't care what

you do with it. The finest website. That's how it goes. That's it. That's how it goes. Yeah. Okay. Excellent. Well, boys, are you ready? Are you ready to do this? Is anybody ever ready? I know. I got to ask every time we do an episode series like this because I just need to make sure that you all are mentally in the right place for the roads we are about to travel here. You know I'm not, but let's do this. Here's the thing. I've only ever, the farthest I've ever looked into this is like maybe an episode of a show here or there over my time, but repeatedly listening to the absolutely devastating and poetically haunting song by Sufjan Stevens, John Wayne Gacy Jr. I've listened to it in my life probably 200, 300 times just because Jesus.

It's just because it's on one of my favorite albums. It's not like I obsessively listen to the song about a serial killer. It's just a really, truly beautiful song. And I hope that today, after you guys finish listening to this as an extra, like a free mini-sode, not even like, you didn't even have to support us on patreon.com.com. Just go on your favorite music streaming service or YouTube. Type in Sufjan Stevens, John Wayne Gacy Jr. And you can just get with me on it. You know, but you know, maybe don't do it until the episodes, all three of the or four, however many parts, you know, we have fun with parts on this show. Yeah, we do. When they're all done, when they're all done, then maybe listen to the song because otherwise

you're going to get spoiled. Yeah, I expect this to be a three-parter going into this where we really kind of go into the life of John Wayne Gacy. Jesse, do you know much about John Wayne Gacy as our kind of resident, I call amateur true crime enthusiast? If you even consider yourself a true crime enthusiast at all? I used to date a girl who was very into John Wayne Gacy. So I thought you were going to say, you know, a lot. I thought you were going to say, I used to date a girl who was murdered by John Wayne Gacy. No, I just, that doesn't make sense. I sometimes find myself in relationships with people that I should be worried about, but I am not. I've never. Do you feel like by being from the Midwest that you have some

sort of connection with the John Wayne Gacy? Does it echo through the culture of your hometown more than it did over here in the sunny West Coast? No. No. You don't feel like in ship with these people? You don't feel like maybe like somehow I could see how my twisted life in the Midwest could somehow turn me into that monster? Never thought of that. In some way. No. Do you find yourself questioning your relationship with us too as co-host now that you've been with us for so long? You know, here's the thing. I'm not clouded by sex with you guys, so it's all right. Oh, I like that. I'm disappointed in that. I'm thinking very clearly right now, so it's fine. After looking, after clapping eyes on us, you brought into sharp sobriety immediately.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm looking at this, the stimpy of Los Angeles, a mathless who's never seen a single film. Yeah, exactly. Except for except for Rain of Fire with Matthew McConaughey. That is a phenomenal film. Yeah, it is a great movie. I don't know if you're sure what phenomenal means, but it's it's a pretty good movie. It's a pretty good movie. It's a pretty good movie to watch at your house at home for no money. When I watched that movie, like the part that stuck with me, I was like, wow, that's so cool because I can see that happening is when they were live acting Star Wars. For some reason, that part stuck with me. And I was like, oh, then that's such a cool

detail. Wow, I can fully believe in this world now. Like that's the part that made me. I remember even as a kid being like totally blue balled by like the trailer shot being like an extremely anti climactic like character death. I don't want to spoil the movie for anybody who hasn't seen Rain of Fire. Like if Mathis has seen it, though, I feel like it's safe to assume that every single fucking person on Earth has seen this movie. I must say there's nothing better than Matthew McConaughey really going full Matthew McConaughey. And he like the truth is full. I wondered what it would be like if Matthew McConaughey played Gile from Street Fighter. It's actually a very good comparison. It's a weird context for the performance. If you're thinking of Gile, you know, the dragon apocalypse

or whatever. But other than that, that should also do one spot on. Let's be real on in the drag apocalypse in the drag apocalypse. I'd want for some reason. For some reason, I wouldn't be surprised if Adrian Brody showed up. I don't know why. Yeah, I don't know. He just seems like he would he would pop in. He was like, did you use to be an actor? He's like, no, you've got the wrong guy. I never was that asher. I was a professional piano player. I saw that movie, by the way. I'm going to claim it. I've seen. I've seen the pianist. I have seen that movie. So you've got range. So you've got range from Rain of Fire into the pianist. Can I can I just tell you guys I lost us on one of our most recent reviews from a listener. They only gave us four instead of five stars specifically

because they said I'm obnoxious because I haven't seen any movies. Here's the thing. I agree with them. I completely agree with them. I'm serious. It's hilarious. Very much agree. I am always angered. I found out you have not seen a movie. No, come on. You can't be mad about that. It's like you went away to the moon for 30 years and came back. And now you're like, I mean, let me read this for you. It's real quick. The moon was Rain of Fire in the pianist. Have you seen while you were sleeping with Bill Pullman and Sandra Bullock? No, that's you. You're the guy from while you were sleeping. Okay. The review simply goes, this show is really fun and entertaining, despite the fact that Mathis is so obnoxious. Dude, have you participated in any of our societal pop culture

and yet you're trying to do a show on weird stuff that very regularly references pop culture? Excuse me. So let me correct you. The stuff that we are researching is the influence for pop culture. I'm looking at the origins of our pop culture. You know what Mathis was doing when he wasn't watching every movie that I watched? He was reading like junior chapter novelizations of the X-Files television show that you didn't even get because they were only fucking in the library at public schools or some shit. He was listening to number stations before he could walk. You might be right on that. Like I might have been listening to number stations because I was just curious what they were. Yeah. Now I'm going to show you the fruits of my labor.

One, two, three. Okay, I'm done. I'm out. All right. Boys, it's time. Let's move on to a lighter subject. Welcome to the very first Mic Run episode of 2022. It is the third episode of the year. The middle almost end of February. I know. Alex had control for way too long. Just a month. I mean, look, it was like we lived for one month in the alternate universe where I usually run the show instead of you. It was a great experience. I enjoyed exploring it quite a bit. So it was fun to be there. But everything went according to plan. I had a great time. I made everybody very angry. It was very good. I didn't say anybody angry. I thought people who were angry in the fun way that we all get angry at each other.

Angry in the fun way, he says. You know what I'm talking about? I'm like gripping my desk. Like I will not let it happen again. This is the origin story for Dr. Claw from Inspector Gadget. I'll get you Alex. That's what happens after Greenstone episode three. I'll get you. Dear carbon footprint, who's got America's largest electrified lineup? Toyota. 15 hybrid plug-in fuel cell electric and battery electric vehicles from the new Prius to the RAV4 hybrid, the Crown and the Tundra i-Force Max. Toyota's the name of the electrified game. As our lineup gets larger, your footprint gets smaller. Get the juice on toyota.com.

Juice? Yep, juice. Toyota, let's go places. What's up everybody? I'm Mike Wilson with Any Hour Services and if you've been thinking about replacing your old water heater, Any Hour Services is here to help and save you some money. Whether you're looking for a new tanked water heater or you want to see what upgrading to a tank list would cost, the plumbers at Any Hour Services can show you what options are available. And right now, you can save $400 on a tanked water heater or $1,200 on a tank list. Call Any Hour Services and schedule a free estimate today. Google Any Hour Services or schedule online at AnyHourServices.com. No one helps more

homeowners than Any Hour Services. Well, I think everyone already knows that I, and to a certain extent, both of you, enjoy true crime. But I really love true crime and since the inception of this podcast, I knew if we made it long enough, eventually we would have the resources to do this, that I would want to dive headfirst into some heavy true crime topics. We've dabbled in some of the more infamous serial killers, including Ted Bundy, though I think I tackled that topic a little too early than I was ready for. But in our fourth year together with Deanna by my side, I want 2022 to be the year I really take a swing at the biggest serial killer names over the past 50 or so years. Let this be the

first episode of hopefully many serial killer topics that we will be deep diving into this year. And what better monster to start with than one of the United States most prolific serial killers, a man who killed at least 33 young men and boys over the course of a few short years in the 70s. A man who not only at one point in his life wanted to be a cop, but mingled with them openly, was a known entity within politics, specifically within the Democratic Party, and even had a photo opportunity with the first lady, Mrs. Carter at the time, a man who moonlit as a clown for birthday parties, the killer clown himself, John Wayne Gacy. In this series, I want to examine his life. In this series, I want to examine his life

from childhood until his death in 1994, and to truly look at the monster he would become and why it took so long before police were able to apprehend this monster. Before we begin, a huge shout out to the multitude of sources used for this series, including Killer Clown by Terry Sullivan, Defending a Monster by his lawyer, Sam L. Amarante and Danny Broderick. Boys enter the house, the victims of John Wayne Gacy and the lives they left behind, and the Chicago Killer by Joseph Koznak. Each of these books served a very distinct purpose. If I was going to do this serial killer, I wanted to try and do it as right as I possibly could. Killer Clown is from the perspective of the investigation and the court

case from the not the defendant side, the other side, which the word is escaping me right now, and I don't know why. Prosecution side. Prosecution. Yeah. Defending a monster, obviously, from the eyes and a very, very, shall we call, biased view of things from the man who defended John Wayne Gacy in court. Boys enter the house so that we can really look and pay respect to all of the victims that lost lost their lives over the years and the Chicago Killer, which is from the perspective of the investigative cops that were assigned to this case when it first broke. I am so impressed by the level of detail. You must. You must really like this guy. I can tell. Yeah. Yeah. He's a man. He's a he's a he's a big I'm a big fan of John Wayne. He really went

off for this. Yeah. We was this is kind of the approach I want to take from serial killers from now on. We kind of did that with Giggling, granting Annie Doss, but she didn't have nearly as many resources to dive in. So yeah, we really went all in on this one. Yeah. This one has a lot of information and is going to take a pretty decent amount of time to get through. So we're going to call this one a normal episode, a normal mystery. Yeah. A normal regular normal size medium mystery XL mystery XL. Mystery XL. Okay. Depends on how many parts it is. I thought that legitimately mine was going to be two parts at one point. That's true. I know. I know. I remember we had those discussions and every time it was a surprise. And in a way, and in a way it was two

parts in a weird twisted way. It was it was with two parts. So without further ado, gentlemen, let's talk all things. John Wayne Gacy. Like most of the true crime episodes we've done, the first place we want to look is back on Gacy's history. And so we rewind the clock. John Wayne Gacy was the son of John Stanley Gacy and Marion Elaine Robinson. Unlike someone like Giggling Granny Nanny Doss, what's known about his parents, what's known about his parents' lives prior to his birth is very minimal, particularly for Marion. We know she was born on May 4th, 1908, to her then 42 year old parents and seemingly lived a normal life in Racine, Wisconsin. Am I saying that right? Racine, Wisconsin. As normal as a life in the 1910s could could be for a kid

anyway, because what the hell do you do for entertainment when you're like eight years old and it's 1913? I have no idea. Gacy's father, John Stanley Gacy, we know just a little bit more about before Gacy's birth. John was born on June 20th, 1900 in Chicago. Yeah. Through his life, he was a machinist in Chicago before becoming a soldier and veteran of World War One. Afterward, he went on to marry Marion, which would be his first and only wife. It's so crazy to imagine that this man's father was a World War One vet. I mean, when did the crimes go down? The mid-70s. So, you know, did you think about it? It's not that crazy, but it's wild. That's an old parent. That's an old parent. And I can't imagine World

War One helped him in any way. He mentally. Well, like my grandparents, for example, right, like they came to America in like, you know, 1917 or whatever. Yeah. And I'm, you know, 33 years old now. So in the 70s, which was like, you know, 50 years ago or whatever, which is crazy to think about, you know, it makes sense. Again, let me remind everyone who is over, I'm going to say 35. The 90s don't don't are referred to as the late 1900s. So stupid. You just tell you that now. That's what there was to in school. I hate that. What is it? 2007 now? 2008? The late 1900s. You know, you're all old now. I'm so interested to see what he's like. I hope he's good. That's Batman kind of grew on me. I'd like to know. Yeah. I wonder if they're ever going

to remake Batman again. What do you guys think? There's this new question about Barak. I don't know his last name. I think he's going to go far. Yeah, I think he's going to go far. Well, you know, who did go far, John Wayne Gacy, too far across the line. Here we go. We're back. We're back. We're back. John Wayne Gacy's father was seen by those who knew him as generous, a hardworking perfectionist, a stern parent, and what they considered a good provider for his family. But this is again at the time where the father was supposed to be the provider for all things. What was also relatively known, though, and ignored was that he was also incredibly reliant on what else boys and girls have seen World War One, the drink alcohol. Dude, literally

first first line of the song. His father was a drinker and his father cried in bed. I mean, you know, if you've listened to the song, it seems like you probably know the whole story already. No, it's a pretty short song. I mean, I got a few details, but that's about it. That's about it. Yeah, he was extremely reliant on alcohol and was extremely physical, physically and emotionally abusive to his family, particularly his wife, which we will go and talk about shortly. But John Wayne Gacy was born on March 17, 1942. And his name was given to him by his father, specifically because he saw John Wayne as one of the most manly, iconic figures in pop culture and entertainment at the time and really wanted his son to live up to that as his first child

was a serial killer son. God, now don't you become a serial killer pilgrim. John John Wayne Gacy came into the world as the married couple's second child. First was their daughter, Joanne, and John Wayne Gacy's life would only just be beginning before he would witness the true wrath of his father in full force early in his life. When Gacy was only two years old and his mother only recently returned from the hospital with their third and final child, Karen, his father returned home one night, presumably incredibly drunk and began to ruthlessly beat his wife. Marion did her best to escape, lifting herself off the floor and running herself out out of the house and onto the streets for safety and hopefully some help

only to discover that John would follow her and beat her into the streets, knocking out multiple of her teeth. Jesus fucking Christ. Yeah, it wasn't it wasn't good. And again, John Gacy's one of these episodes, it's like we should have like being it's like two morose, but we should have like bingo. Yeah, well, there's three signs that every serial a lot of serial killers typically have. And John has like one of them. But we'll talk about that later. I have a very specific question about his childhood. I'm going to let you go through it first. But I have another lyric that I want to check in with. Okay, do you want to ask the question now and I won't answer? No. Well, okay. Well, the next line of the song is folding John Wayne's t-shirts when the swing

set hit his head. So I yeah, so that's so that's something that I was interested because we were just talking about what makes a serial killer. And I know you're going to say one of the things is some sort of head injury. And so I'm going to just I'm just going to throw that out there as like a possible. I don't know how this album is famous for its research. So I'm interested how accurate it actually like I can I can answer that right away. Yeah, there was he did have a blood clot, but we'll talk a little bit about that later. Interesting. Not too far because there were other things that I think led much more to what happened. I mean, there's certainly much hitting head with the swing set. Yeah. But his his father also would beat him into unconsciousness

and stuff too. So I do wonder Lord, if a lot of that came from his father. But yes, that is something that that happened to him at 11 years old. But it didn't. It isn't like a focal point of most of those who talk about his past and a focal point of like the origins of his monstrosity to the point where like, this is really the only point you're going to hear it of us talk about it because there's way more other things that I think lead into what ends up happening with his life later on. But regardless, back to what happened after he was beating his wife in the street for a while, the cops would eventually arrive and intercede and stop the violence. But John senior seemed to suffer a few if any consequences at all, as this would be a

running theme throughout their lives. And I was unable to find any mention of him actually going to prison or being arrested for the physical abuse of his family. His mother seemed to be the target of his father's ire for the majority of it until John junior got older and tried his best to defend his mother stepping in the way which ensured he also got physically beat while his father verbally assaulted him daily, calling him a sissy, a mama's boy, or saying things like quote, he'll probably grow up a queer, end quote. And this seemingly was the only emotional response that they would see from their father save once when they saw him crying once and for the first time only when Gacy would be sent to jail the first time. His dad cried when Gacy went to jail.

Yeah, and we'll talk about why he may have cried about that when we get there. His own Gacy senior is mysterious. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, we'll talk about it later. John senior's own kids refer to their father as Jekyll and Hyde. He could not reciprocate feelings in any way. And it became a typical night for the Gacy children to go to the dinner table and sit down and wait patiently and fearfully for the screaming and berating that was coming from the basement to end where eventually the kids would watch their parents emerge, the father always drunk, both sit down at the table and then and only then was dinner allowed to truly begin. As a child, Gacy was known as a loving and eager to please kid. By all accounts, his mother was

his best friend. And for reasons I imagine are extremely complex was always by his mother's side willing and eager to help when needed. Neighbors in particular remember always seeing John Gacy by his mother's side at the garden helping to his father, though, Gacy was nothing but a failure unable to meet the incredibly high standards his father had. John's craftsmanship always fell short of his father's expectation. And in response to his son's perceived failures, he would verbally abuse him, belittle him and remind him just how stupid he was reinforcing how much of a mama's boy he was and how he needed to be more like a man. And that is like the focus of his dad. Here's the thing. I'm going to chime in and I'm going to say, first of all, just look

up a picture of him sucks how similar I look to him at this time. You talking about Gacy? Like John Wayne Gacy or his dad? Just looked at his mugshot and I'm like, oh, shit. It's the mustache. Yeah, it sucks. It's more than the mustache. It's like a lot like like he kind of looks like he could be my relative. I don't like it. But other than that, I hope that some dumb motherfuckers out there this is sinking in. I'm not saying that every single person who is abused or treated poorly as a kid turns into a serial killer. But if there's something, if there's a way you can treat your kids that is common among all serial killers, like that there's no way that can be good for anybody. You know what I mean? Just the bare minimum. Take care of your kids. What the fuck?

Agreed. And like you made that point and I make it later, I think too, is that, you know, thousands of or millions of kids go through abuse. Not not all of them turn into serial killers. In fact, an incredibly small portion of them ever get, you know, turned into a serial killer of that sort. So Gacy didn't really have an excuse, but you can certainly see where the roots of his sick mind. Yeah, it's not like it's not like, oh, he was a good man. Yeah, of course. He was ruined by one other guy. It's just like, you know, come on, think about it. That's not good for anyone. Exactly. Regardless, he kept telling him how he needed to be more like a man, but his father would never receive that back from his son. In fact, it seemed the more he

pressed his son into being the child he wished he had, more and more things would crop up to go against that. Gacy would go on to suffer from ill health his entire life. Gacy would become an overweight and unathletic child as he grew. Due to some unknown heart condition, Gacy was unable to play sports with friends or in school on doctors' orders. And as he continued to get older, the symptoms would get worse and worse with the eventual wound at 11 years old of causing a blood clot in the head from being whacked in the head with a swing. Around fourth grade, Gacy began experiencing random bouts of blackouts, which if we remember giggling Granny Nanny Doth, she suffered the same thing. However, she raged when those happened. He simply tended to pass out.

The symptoms though would only get worse. Around fourth grade, Gacy began experiencing, like I said, random bouts of blackouts, which occasionally ended up with him hospitalized for these blackouts, as well as a burst appendix in 1957. Gacy later estimated that between the ages of 14 and 18, he had spent almost a year in the hospital and attributed the decline of his grades to missing school as he was unable to graduate high school by the end. His father suspected these episodes were an effort to gain sympathy and attention and openly accused his son of faking the conditions as Gacy laid in hospital beds. What the fuck? What? Yeah, that's pretty messed up. Just get up and work. Stop. Stop acting like you're sick, you mama's boy. You sissy. You queer.

Like that's really the energy that he would feed his son. That guy needs to get his ass beat. That guy needs somebody to get that guy's ass. Yeah, he would have too much power and control on the family for sure. Although his mother, sisters, and a few close friends never doubted his illness. This is an important note. Gacy's medical condition was never conclusively diagnosed. The doctors could never figure out what was wrong with him, but his father's ruthless beatings would certainly make one wonder if they were maybe the source. One of Gacy's friends in high school, actually, sorry, go ahead. I just said, whoa. Yeah. One of Gacy's friends in high schools actually recalled several instances when his father ridiculed or beat his son without provocation

at the home while they were around. On one occasion in 1957, they witnessed Gacy's father emerging drunk from the family basement, as he always did, began belittling Gacy and hitting his son for no apparent reason. Gacy's mother attempted to intervene as her son simply, quote, put his hands up to defend himself. And according to the friends, Gacy never struck his father back during these altercations. And as far as we actually know, Gacy never actually swung back at his father at all, claiming that he did love and care about his father. Man. Yeah, I know. That's so sad. But also you can understand why someone would have so much internalized rage inside, like building up and like being able to unleash it, especially then on people who wouldn't fight

back. You know what I mean? And what's worse is that his father was ridiculing something about his son that ended up being true. John Wayne Gacy was fighting and resisting his natural homosexual urges. He was gay. But this isn't a time where all of that was looked down and shunned upon. And especially from my imagine, a 1900s World War One veteran, that shit was a no go. Well, let's be real. Like, OK, like what year is it right now? Like the 40s, 50s, 57. Like we're talking, dude, we're talking about like half the stuff we're talking about is like the stuff that's like, wow, this is like a person who is a piece of shit from this time. But half of this stuff, like he came home and that's like when like dinner could be served or

like the dad was like telling his kid that he was gay all the time as a negative. Like that is not like the same. That is like not serial killer father treatment. That is like everybody father treatment in 1950s. And that is, I mean, not like I'm not trying to say every single person, obviously. But the idea that somebody would do that is not that's not the extreme part. And that's the part that's like really crazy to think about is just like, you know, the rise of the serial killer in America is like around like John Wayne Gacy is like right there in that in the the sort of like Mount Rushmore of serial killers right in that time period. And like a lot of it is just like built up like repressed feelings. Just if you're looking at humanity as a whole,

the pressure that society puts on us at that time period to like be this sort of like exceptional icon for the world. Like, you know, people thought being America was awesome back then. And, you know, that there's a certain way to be American. And man, like, that's some damaging. That's some damaging shit. We're still mixed that with somebody who's already probably, you know, a little mentally unwell from whatever he inherited from his parents, the wounds and head wounds that he incurred just to compound that mixed with all the shame. And you just have a soup for somebody that's not going to be necessarily a great person. We're still working this shit out of our collective psychies. It's like,

yeah, the main problem that we all wrestle with every day. Yeah, a hundred percent. You have to I mean, like this, you have to understand the difference between someone who has it bad and someone who goes around killing people is like, there's a distinct lack of any moral code there. Like, and that's that's one of those things why it makes it so rare. Because even people who this sort of I always think is very funny when you talk to I have a lot of friends who are very religious and not having good conversation with them I always push every button. And the biggest thing is always just like, well, if you didn't have,

you know, religion to tell you what was right and wrong, wouldn't you like what would you do? It's like, I'd still do the right thing because like I want to feel good about myself and not be a piece of shit. And so that that I think applies a lot with these people. And that's why they're rarity. And that's what we're talking about them is because there's just no switch in their head that says, yeah, I probably shouldn't do this. And that's why it's so crazy. It's also weird to think that this was like maybe the first time in society anywhere, maybe even, I don't know, where like the average American could like keep their kids like you could be sheltered like heavily sheltered in a way that like

I mean, obviously it happened in another way, like in the 1800s, where you just have like your weird kid that you didn't let out of your house and like treated him like he was your employee or whatever, like nanny dogs kind of vibes. But like the idea that like you could just like control the media like you can basically brainwash your kids at this point. Like this is the first time like there's media that supports every viewpoint and like people can like just keep their kids away from certain stuff and fully educate them on other things. It's really weird, really weird. Yeah, you are 100% correct. You both are. And to Jesse's point about information age. Yeah. And to Jesse's point about the switch, what I'm about to say kind of goes to that.

I want to say just going forward from this point on, it's important to note that a lot of what we know from Gacy's childhood, particularly the details we're going to talk about, come from Gacy himself and beyond the ones that are corroborated by people who saw it as well, much like Bundy, when we discussed him, Gacy is at best an unreliable narrator looking for any reason to cast blame off of himself and pin it on something or someone else like Bundy used to blame porn for his supposed abuse and or or his supposed abuse of upbringing. If you remember how from all evidence we have, his stepfather did his best to like reach out and but Bundy claims that he was beaten. We have no like everything points to the opposite of that.

So though at least for Gacy, his father's behavior here is corroborated by his siblings, obviously. It seemed early on that his father at the very least had suspicions of his son's budding homosexuality. Constant comments about how he'd never have a son that did such things alongside typical exploratory behaviors coming from John Jr. ensured that Gacy was beat and berated for his perceived sexual tendencies even at a young age. Dear carbon footprint, who's got America's largest electrified lineup? Toyota. 15 hybrid plug-in fuel cell electric and battery electric vehicles from the new Prius to the RAV4 hybrid, the Crown and the Tundra i-Force Max. Toyota's the name of the electrified

game. As our lineup gets larger, your footprint gets smaller. Get the juice on toyota.com. Juice? Yep, juice. Toyota, let's go places. Dear roads, trails and rivers, you ready for some SUV action? Toyota SUVs can roll their sleeves up for twisty trails or dress up for a night out on the town. Up your family adventure game with the Highlander, make a splash with the rugged RAV4 or haul a weekend's worth of fun with the spacious new Sequoia. They all come with standard features and some sweet, sweet tech. Check out this versatile lineup at toyota.com. Toyota, let's go places. For instance, when John Jr. was a child, we're talking somewhere around seven or eight years old,

he had stolen away a bag of his mother's underwear and kept it under the porch where he liked to play. It's interesting it ends up being under the porch where he likes to play knowing what happens in the future. Oh my God. I know. That's like a fucking Tim Burton movie. What the fuck? I know. I know, man. I know. I know. When I read that too, I was like, damn, dude. John would go on to say that he really just simply enjoyed the feeling of nylon and silk. And when his mother found the bag, Casey claims that he was made to wear, his mother made him wear a pair of her own underwear for an entire day simply to embarrass him as punishment for even stealing like smoke a whole pack. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of like that. But I don't know if that's

true. And this is where I say it's unknown or if that's something that like didn't happen because it never seemed like his mother really wanted to punish her son, at least to that degree. That that feels a little out of character for what we would. I know of his mother, but it's still very possible that happened. Maybe that was just kind of a normal punishment in the fifties or something. Would she ever have been for it? No, I don't think she ever would have been for it. I just don't know if she would have gone out of her way to punish him because usually she let the father kind of dole out punishments. Weird. That's a really weird detail, actually, in general. It doesn't seem like the

logic of smoke a whole pack. Like if you're like, don't wear that. And then the punishment is like, you have to wear that for a long time. Yeah, for a whole day now. And it's just like, it's weird. If this is true, this is kind of a horrible way to punish and clearly emotionally traumatize a young child in an era where this kind of behavior was an invitation for ridicule, ridicule, shaming what I imagine was him exploring his own sexuality. But according to his sisters, once his father found out, the physical punishment was swift and painful. John Sr. once he found out, got up and simply walked to the bathroom. When he exited in his hand, he held a leather razor strap and came back to whip John, which he proceeded to do. I don't know if you guys have

seen like a leather razor for like shaving and stuff. That thing is like nasty. People used to beat their kids like everyone. Everyone got beat with a leather strap and a wooden spoon all the time when he was growing up. I remember I asked a lot of people's parents. I'll put it that way. I think it transcends culture or race or anything like that. I think it's mostly the time period is the main thing. I know this is a kind of a tangent, but it's interesting because I remember my mom and my dad. I know they both were hit a lot as a kid because they always made it a point to make sure we knew that they will never hit us because that's what their parents did. And like you said, it just comes from that era of... I got spanked a little. I got spanked a little for sure.

I never got it. I never got it. Are you surprised? I never got like beaten. You know what I mean? I never got like... I'm not trying to claim that I was traumatized. Yeah, but it wasn't a leap. That's what I'm saying. The idea that you would strike your child is not the crazy part. The crazy part is that he would be like, beat him to an inch of his life for being gay. That's the problem. Yeah, exactly. You're absolutely correct. The difference is like if I end up doing something as a kid and get in trouble, I get a punishment because I did something dumb and my parents are trying to teach me a lesson not to do something dumb again. Right. The difference is that this is like, stop existing. Yes. I'll beat you because you're different. That's crazy.

In a way, I feel like his father thought he could just beat into him the son he wanted. You know, like if you just... I mean, that is exactly for a long time what people thought about children is like, you're molding them into an adult. And so you don't want your kid growing up this way. You got to beat them into... Yeah. That's absolutely the same thing with a kid. Absolutely true. Yeah. It's so stupid. Yeah. And as Gacy continued to get older, the beatings would simply continue. And when Gacy attempted to find solace in safety elsewhere, he unfortunately was only met with more abuse. What? Just at the age of six, through him being 10, Gacy not only couldn't find peace and safety away from his home,

he continued to be abused by friends of the family. Huh? Specifically, specifically, the teenage daughter of one of his mother's friends would quote, undress and play with him regularly. And by the time he had turned eight or nine, a local contractor told Gacy he was more than welcome to come along on the rides for his work to see how it's all done and hang out. Gacy ran to his mother asking for permission and she saw no reason to say no. She had been relatively familiar with this individual and saw him as a good guy. Oh my God. And after leaving the house and going off with this essentially a stranger, Gacy would play wrestle with him, where he always ended up pinned his head stuck between

the man's legs each and every time. This would go on for months, maybe years. Gacy kept this to himself, utterly fearful that if his father ever found out, he would be beaten in a way he'd never been beaten before. And his father seemed extremely hung up on his son's manliness and his queer tendencies. And so he kept it quiet. Now, I want to want to want to say once again, we have no evidence that this happened beyond Gacy speaking it in his confessions and in his interviews. There's nobody that came forward and said they saw these things happen or any or he or, you know, the person that they supposedly happened to be found the abuse from the teenage girl and this man. OK, I'm not saying that it didn't happen. I mean, during this time,

this feels like, you know, this seems like it was happening all the time. It's very possible. But again, I just want to reiterate Gacy is an unreliable narrator when it comes to his own past specifically because he was so desperate to cast blame off of him. But if this is true, then nearly from his birth until at least 12 years old, not only was Gacy facing physical and emotional abuse at home, but at the hands of those he thought he could trust and those who simply kept their abuse a secret. And it would be at 12 years old. Gacy would first attempt something abusive on his own upon somebody else. He and a neighborhood friend of his would regularly hang out throughout the week, though what their activities were kind

of unknown. I imagine just young boy stuff. What we do know, however, is that one day that both of them cornered his friend's sister. They teased her and then pinned her down. Regardless of how much she tried to stop or fight them off, she couldn't. Both of them then forcibly removed her underwear before she eventually was able to pry herself free. Jesus fucking Christ. What? Yes. And he was only 12 when this happened. And smartly, she went and let the parents know everything. What the punishment was for her brother is unknown. But we know Gacy got the leather strap extra bad that night. This is the only known incident from this period in his life. And from here on, only a few things seem to pop up of note when it comes to his own abuses.

Because for how horrible his life growing up was, again, none of it was an excuse for his future behavior, no matter how badly he wishes people would accept that as an excuse. What the then I know it's not it's a lot. This is like it's one of those things where it's just there's so Alex is right. It's morbid, but there should definitely be a bingo because holy crap. You can only hear the same origin story over and over and over again and then be like possible first crime included XX. And you're like, yeah, that feeling that feeling of being 40 minutes into the first episode of a serial killer three parter and you start to put all the pieces together. Yes. Yeah. I'm glad it's I don't know

if I'm proud or kind of sad that it's a familiar feeling. It's the same fucking puzzle every time like you had ridiculous degree. And when we search more like Albert Fish later this year and stuff, you're going to see very a lot of similarities. Gacy wouldn't actually date anyone though until he turned the age of 16. And according to him, he lost his virginity at the age of 18, fully suppressing his true desires and his inner homosexuality, ashamed and growing more and more hateful of them at this point in his life. AC sex life was also particular kind of particular and straightforward. He claimed, especially in his 20s, that he only enjoyed quote unquote normal sex with his girlfriends. Going on to say that oral sex was gross and he didn't like it because

then he wouldn't be able to kiss his girlfriend. He also said he liked the boobs that felt like two bags of sand. I was like, I wonder is like, oh gross, the yucky pee pee flavor in her mouth or something, dude. Yeah, like now I personally think you just say what? Thank you, Alex. Thank you. That's what I imagine he's like, you gross, like I don't want to taste you anymore. I want that yucky pee pee flavor, J. W. G. I personally think this was just a way for him to try and detach in a bizarre way from his inner desires and urges that he was actually having in his mind as oral sex was something he was far from disgusted by so long as it was coming from a man, as we'll learn later. At just the age of 18 in 1960, Gacy's gift of gab was in full effect

for everything that he had gone through in his entire life. It seemed Gacy was at the very least a surprisingly natural charismatic individual. At 18, he became quickly involved in politics, working as an assistant person, a present captain for the Democratic Party, a precinct captain also known as a precinct chairman or delegate or whatever is an elected official in the American politics system for those who don't know. Right. The office establishes a direct link between a political party and the voters in a local district. That's what he was. That's what he jumped into at the age of 18. Seems young to me. Not only young, but he never graduated high school too. Like this is just him jumping in. Well, nobody needs to be educated in politics. Let's be honest. That's fair

enough. Fair enough. This may be unsurprisingly at this point drew the anger of his father, throwing a brand new insult into his repertoire, calling his son a patsy. That was like his new thing. He's a patsy. A patsy. But for a patsy. For what? For joining for joining politics at 18. Maybe for joining the Democratic Party. I don't know what like what made him call him a patsy. He just that was it. That was what he called him. Like a but gate. It's weird. Just like a guy who got tricked. A patsy of the government. Like, yeah, I don't I don't I don't know. I don't know what he meant. In my mind, there's like no more like legit job than working with the state. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe just from World War One, he was just he was he was a World War One

veteran. Maybe he just was completely jaded at that point. If I'm if I'm a traditional, abusive, alcoholic, suburban father in the 50s, I probably want my son to get into politics. I don't know. That seems weird to me. I don't know. Yeah, it's weird. Yeah. But you want your son to get into politics for the right people. Yeah. Yeah. The people that you know, but the Democratic Party was still kind of fucked up at that time. I mean, they're still very fucked up now. But I mean, they weren't like the good guys. No, no, but but it doesn't matter which party you're picking. The idea is politics is I want like, yeah, get into politics, but like for the right people. What's his dad? It doesn't matter what side you're on. If if I had a kid, no, no, and he's like,

yeah, you know what, I'm going to go work for the Trump administration. I'd be like, you pass. What the fuck? You pass. You can we bring that insult back now? I really like it. Dude, I'm about to bring it back in a big way. If you know what I'm saying, JFK. Get out of here. Stop it. It's like Lee Harvey Oswald's catchphrase. I mean, yeah, you're kind of right. Regardless of his father's new insults, Gacy continued enjoying the attention and approval of others that he never tended to get at home getting from the people he was working for. Regardless of regardless of how his father saw this, for whatever reason, his father still ended up buying him his first car. What? But yeah, I know. Very weird.

That fucks me up because you want to think that this father is like a neglectful father who doesn't see himself as this guy's father and a piece of shit. But you could tell from shit like this that it's like a situation of like, I don't think it seems normal, right? Yeah. I don't I wouldn't use the word neglectful in that I think he he he was just abusive, like because that's what I mean. I just in my mind, in my mind, I just have to think like to beat the shit out of your kid to like make him feel bad for being gay, all this shit, you you would imagine that the guy is like a fucking guy who doesn't have a shit together, washed up piece of shit, not a provider, right? But no, that's exactly what you said is that he is. And

so I imagine people from outside, like people who Gacy is going to school with, I mean, everybody's dad hit them, you know, not everybody's, but like enough people's dad hit them that I bet you would just seem normal, which is just drives me nuts. It just seems wild to me that that was like possible. Yeah. And like I said earlier, the the world on the outside saw the father as generous, hardworking, a perfectionist and etc. But was a good provider. Sure. Like any parent, the title was kept in his father's name until Gacy was able to pay the car off himself. But lest you think his father was doing this with a kindness never before seen, then you'd be wrong. During the first few years, it would take Gacy during the first few years that

it would take Gacy to pay the car off. His father would continually use it as an object of power and control, snatching the keys away whenever he decided his son didn't deserve the car for that day. Okay, but fine. Same Z's. Finally, having enough in 1962, Gacy purchased an extra set of keys after his father confiscated the original set. And in response, his father ended up removing the district, a distributor cap off the car, keeping the component for three days. Gacy recalled that this made him feel totally sick and drained after the incident. Probably. And this probably made the car feel pretty drained also. Yeah, yeah. This would be kind of like the last straw for Gacy. Only hours after his

father replaced the distributor cap back onto his car, Gacy would leave home heading for where else the land of freedom, money and women. Las Vegas, Nevada, baby. He went to Vegas, really? He went right to Vegas. Off he went for a few months. While in Vegas, he, because he was looking to leave and never come back. And he went with nothing, no money to his name beyond what little money he had in his car. And while in Las Vegas, he quickly found work within the ambulatory service industry before he would be transferred to work at the, yeah. Don't you need training to do that? Maybe not in the fifties, baby, or the sixties. Am I just misunderstanding what that is? Is that not a person who works in an ambulance? I imagine he worked, yeah, he like maybe he was a dispatcher

of some sort or something. All I know is that he worked for, it wasn't long. Like we're talking, he was working for them for maybe a couple of weeks. And how old is he right now? 18 years old? 1962, he should be 20, I believe at this point. So I guess it's not as crazy, but still. No, but like the next couple of years, literally the next two years are nuts for him, like in what happens to his life. So he worked for the ambulance service before he was very quickly transferred to work at the Palm Mortuary as an as an attendant. What? Seriously? Yeah. And it's here. The first notable red flag would appear, but only Gacy would be witness to it. Don't tell me he dressed like his mom or some shit like that. No, no, and he did not pull an edgine and dress like his mom.

This Palm Mortuary job was a lifesaver for Gacy in Vegas, who had nothing when he arrived. As with the as the job came with housing, he would be able to sleep on a cot behind the embalming room while he spent three months working there, observing morticians and bombing dead bodies. Now, knowing what we now knowing what we know of Gacy's crimes yet to come, I don't believe that being surrounded by these dead bodies awoken a love for corpses. But still late one night while alone in his cot, long after the owner and workers had left for the day, an urge seemed to spring upon Gacy. He had been watching them bomb a deceased teenage boy throughout the day and would finish the process the next day. That night, while within the privacy

of only himself and the dead, Gacy climbed into the coffin on the deceased boy and gently started to spoon him, embracing the corpse and caressing the body. This is what he has said. Yes, as I say, as and the body for as Gacy claims, then experienced a sense of shock that prompted him not only to leave the coffin, but had him calling his mother the very next day and asked when his father would allow him to return home since he was barred from returning the house of returning to the house after he had left three months ago. So he climbed into the coffin and had a moment of self awareness of like, oh my fucking God, I'm in a coffin with a guy like a dead man. Oh my God. Yes. A hundred percent. He like was realized what he was doing. He's like, no, gross. And he got out and was like,

mom, I want to come home. The same day that he asked his father agreed and Gacy drove back to Chicago that day. So he was only in Las Vegas for a few months. From here, Gacy attempted to meld back into a normal life, enrolling in Northwestern Business College, despite having failed to graduate college or high school. And he graduated in 1963 and took a management trainee position with the Nunn Bush Shoe Company, now being 21 years old. After his successful training came to a close in 1964, Gacy would then be transferred to Springfield, Illinois to work as a salesman for a short time before being promoted to manager because the training course that he took was a management training course. He literally graduated from

college and went right into a management trainee course. Like that typical pipeline that we imagine we wish we still had. That was the one that they told other millennials was going to happen. And then they just were like, there's no jobs. It's crazy. We don't even have access. Get fucked. Weird, weird. Exactly. Despite his tumultuous childhood and problematic behavior, it seemed Gacy was finally able to find a sense of normalcy. At his store in Illinois at the age of 22, he would meet, date, and marry Marilyn Myers, a co-worker of his. After his first failed proposal to his now ex happened the year prior. So he was dating somebody else for a little bit like close to a year he proposed to her. She said no. He got really upset about it and then started

dating this girl and a year later proposed and she accepted. During the time that they dated, Gacy remained extremely busy working himself into the surrounding social scene, even going to join the local JC's working tirelessly for them before being named Keyman in April of 1964. Again, at just 22 years old. Keyman. You don't know. Yeah, enough to ask. What is Keyman? Well, the JC's. Do you know what the JC's are? The Justice Corps. Close. The JC's were a political organization. The United States Junior Chamber, also known as the JC's, JCI or JCI USA. It's a leadership training and civic organization for people between the ages of 18 and 40. It is a branch of Junior Chamber International. Oh, JCI. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Areas of emphasis are business development, management skills, individual training, community service, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And he not only worked his way in there, people fucking loved him and he flew up the ranks very, very quickly at a young age. You can straight up go to the JCI. It's JCIUSA.org. It's still a thing. So I think I know somebody who was part of this. This looks from the logo looks familiar to me. And you can see where Gacy already a normally charismatic individual is entering programs and jobs that just keep honing his social ability

because you got to keep in mind on top of all this. Casey is extremely charismatic, like people really love him and they love him very quickly. He's so amenable with people unlike Bundy, who was kind of this meek, quiet guy that people just thought was charming. Casey was kind of an out there guy. People loved him. He truly was seemingly trying to keep himself at this point as normal as possible,

whatever that entails for a 1960s lifestyle. But now he's finally freed from his father, from punishment. He's supposedly happily married. The urges that he had suppressed and been shamed about for so long came roaring back. And in 1964, Casey would have his first adult homosexual experience. And I say adult because we don't know if the wrestling was true or not. I wouldn't say that's like a nice traditional gay experience either. Yeah, no, agree.

But that's what Gacy referred to it as, like he referred to it as like his first gay experience. The way Gacy told the story was that one day after one of his colleagues in the Springfield, J.C. has invited him to join him at home to watch some movies and have some drinks. He accepted after drinking a little too much. His friend offered Gacy to stay the night at his home and sleep on the couch so he could safely drive himself home the next day as his colleague was also a bit too drunk to drive and Gacy agreed.

Now, we're not sure of the details specifically, but we do know what we do know, according to Gacy, is that night would end with Gacy receiving that which he claimed he hated. A blow job from his colleagues. Consensual homosexual experience, consensual as far as we know, a consensual homosexual experience while they were both intoxicated. Dude, why did you just fucking stay in fucking wherever you were at and just be a gay person?

Because he was afraid. I really don't talk about that. Honestly, the real talk is that it probably sucked so much to be a gay person at this time that it was actually worth it not to be one. I would never understand what it was like, but God damn, what a shame. Yeah, it sucks. If Gacy is to be believed, he says he didn't want this. But the drinks in the situation provided him no alternative, supposedly.

His stint in Illinois was coming to an end, however, but not before Gacy rose to the position of vice president of the Springfield JCS in 1965, just one year. So was it consensual or not? He claims it's not. But he says he says it. He says it wasn't. But he wasn't like being pinned.

He just says he was too drunk and thought there was no other. Again, he doesn't give details, so we don't know. Like, when did he talk about this later? Like, oh, after he was arrested in the serial killer, the fame tour kind of vibe. Yeah, exactly. We only learned about this well after we knew he was a serial killer. Dear carbon footprint, who's got America's largest electrified lineup? Toyota, 15 hybrid plug-in fuel cell electric and battery electric vehicles

from the new Prius to the RAV4 hybrid, the Crown and the Tundra I4 Max, Toyota's the name of the electrified game. As our lineup gets larger, your footprint gets smaller. Get the juice on Toyota dot com. Juice. Yep, juice. Toyota, let's go places. Are you struggling to lose weight and keep it off? Tired of wasting time and money on starvation diets

that lead to more frustration and stress? If there was a weight loss solution that could actually work for you, would you try it? Then head to go.com. I'm Steve, I lost 138 pounds in nine months on Golo. I'm Amber, I've lost 128 pounds with Golo taking release. If you're ready to take back control of your life, head to go.com now and see how Golo can work for you.

That's G-O-L-O dot com. My sleep is way better. My inflammation has gone way down. Golo saved my life. I was way overweight. That's what sent me down the path. I wanted to make sure and live for my kid. I have literally tried everything.

I was on the verge of getting gastric bypass surgery and I saw the Golo commercial and it was the last thing I tried because it worked. Join over two million people who have found a better way to lose weight with Golo, your healthier and happier life begins at Golo.com. That's G-O-L-O dot com again, G-O-L-O dot com. But again, yeah, his stint in Illinois ended, but not before he became vice president of the Springfield JCs in 1965.

The very same year, he was named the third most outstanding member of the JCs in Illinois. He should have fucking loved this dude. He should have gone into politics, got famous, and just been like the first gay politician from Chicago. How many politicians do you think might have become serial killers if they didn't become politicians, though? You know what I mean?

That's a question I always ask about a lot of people who are very powerful. I know. Before long, though, his life would move once again, this time off to Waterloo, Iowa. His wife's father had recently purchased three different Kentucky fried chicken restaurants in Waterloo, and he was offered. Yeah. Yeah. And Gacy was offered the opportunity to manage the all three of them,

which he accepted all three of them. OK, so now he's a politician and he's running three KFCs. Yeah, he's going to move out of Springfield to Waterloo for this opportunity. Waterloo, taking that chicken. Thank you for that, Alex. I appreciate it. Wait, hold on. Do you know that reference? No, not at all. But I assume it's a KFC commercial.

No, it's a song by Abba. That guy has a whole other thing to write now. Oh, my God. Please don't leave another four star review. I hate that you said no. I assumed it was about chicken. The song Waterloo, you're actually you're right. It is about chicken.

Yeah, my favorite Abba song is I ate the bones. I know Abba does dancing queen. That's all. Yeah, that's fair. You know what? That's all you need to know. Well, my wife and an inch deep, I always say, KFC. I thought it was like a KFC commercial, so jingle your singer or something. Chicken queen. Obviously, I'm saying spices.

God, I'm bringing it back, boys. Obviously, Gacy, having been offered this opportunity, accepted it. They were offered the old house that his parents, his wife's parents also once lived in. And he was offered to be paid 15,000 a year. And in twenty twenty two money, that's about one hundred and thirty five thousand dollars a year to manage these things. That's a big getting a free house.

That's a big greasy bucket of opportunity, if I've ever seen one. Not only that, he was also offered a share of the restaurant's profits. Good Lord, man. This is just any again. Twenty three. All he had to do was not kill like 30 people. No shit. So they accepted.

And after going through the necessary training, Gacy and his wife moved off to Waterloo and it's in Waterloo, where things really began, their inevitable horrible spiral downwards. It's here where Gacy's urges met with his ambition and his life would become a dark pit of horror, pain and despair. Shortly after moving into Waterloo, Gacy was desperate to ingratiate himself in the local social scene of the Waterloo JC's.

He would make quick friends with nearly everyone there, making it quite clear just how much Gacy wanted to move up the ladder, saying to them that maybe one day he would love to wield the gavel himself. So he really had aspirations of achieving high power within the JC's. He befriended one of the JC's in particular and quickly developed a habit of going out with him nightly, drinking, enjoying strippers and more while also confirming to this person, though it was a lie that he and his wife that he and his wife

were quote unquote casual now, meaning that it was much more of an open relationship and that he could sleep with kind of whoever he wanted this, of course. Who said that? Gacy? Gacy, Gacy was saying that to the the friend that he would go out with at night with from the male friend, male friend, 100 percent male friend. So he is he is soliciting men for sex. He he wants to have consensual sex, not in secret with men, maybe.

With this guy, no, he's simply allowed because he's going out to see strippers with this guy and drink with this guy. He's simply bragging. It's cool. Yeah, it's cool. Exactly. He's much more like it's cool. Me and my wife are kind of casual now. We can do whatever we want. Of course, Gacy would back all of this with wild claims of things sleeping with like claiming that he slept with over 100 women and being insanely successful in his life, love life, his whole life.

Colonel Gacy of the you say I hate that you said that because he gave himself the nickname, the Colonel later on. And shut the fuck up while he was working at KFC. Yeah, yeah, he was running three. He didn't. OK, that's hilarious, too, because he would lie to people. We'll talk about it. He lied to people and said he owned them. Call me the Colonel and he didn't.

He was just a manager while his father-in-law owned them. And his father-in-law got pissed whenever he did this. What the fucking hell? That's later, though. We're talking about that a little later. Eleven secret wives and girlfriends. Again, you notice the Gacy kind of imitating his father in a weird way, where he also, like his father, really cherishes and wants power and control.

Like everything he does further is like to further his ambition to have control over something and power over people. Regardless, he claimed that he slept with over 100 women. Said he had an insanely successful sex life. This this may partially, however, be true, because one of Gacy's ex-lovers would come forward later to say that Gacy was actually really good in bed, but he had this weird, unshakable obsession with choke play.

The and that so we don't know if he slept with 100 women, but he apparently was pretty good in bed. The more he befriended the JCs, the more he realized he was among peers as through his friendship. He learned that people in the JCs were wildly involved with wife swapping, prostitution, pornography and recreational drug use. Jacy, I mean, Gacy couldn't be among more people

that he would consider friends and a predilection for public service. I know these are all people in government. Exactly. With his natural charm, alongside the constant supply of free chicken from his KFC job that he would take. This is so stupid. This is like a movie. Yes, this is so wild.

He took constantly chicken and a pussy empire. Yes, wait, dude, it gets wilder. So he would take chicken from his KFC job and go to the local JCs where he would just give everybody chicken and he would be everybody's friend. And people would. Gacy became very popular very quickly. He was just a gregarious dude

who wanted to share his his good fortune in his job and get people free food in the shop. Don't tell me this stuff, because it almost makes me be like, there was a chance like there was a chance for this for this man. All he had to do was not murder 30 people, though. All he had to do while he's to keep in mind while he's doing this, what's happening in his mind and his urges are pretty apparent. And again, I urge people to go read some of the books.

I did because, again, even over three episodes, I'm going to have to cut a lot of stuff out. He still had thoughts and urges and stuff during this time, but he was just trying to get fine power and find a place that he thought he could belong. People's gets people's gets urges all the time. Sure, urges all the time. All I'm saying is he had. Everything you're telling me right now, I'm like, that seems like a damn good life.

Like, what are you telling me? Like that is terrible in the kernel, man. Yes, yeah, my next. Oh, you became a clown. You loser in my next, my next. The next thing I'm saying is actually like in this, he would have people refer to him as the kernel for working in the KFCs and claiming that he owned the KFCs and that the workload that he had

was nearly impossible for anyone outside of him to handle. He regularly, supposedly worked 12 to 14 hour days. That's what all the people say on Kitchen Nightmares. Yeah, exactly, exactly. But he claimed he was just that hard a worker and that it was important for the company. Unfortunately, this couldn't be further from the truth. On multiple occasions, his wife's father would have would have to have long conversations with Gacy about his work ethic, that the amount of work

he would go on to claim that the amount of work Gacy was doing barely made a dent on the workload needed to be taken care of on the daily. And that had he not been his daughter's husband, he would have fired him very quickly and much earlier. An emperor and colonels close and. As Gacy seemed to care much more about hanging out with his employees than doing the actual work, because beyond the JCs, he was building another social circle completely separate.

While he may have had a social life among the JCs, it becomes evident now that what he truly wanted was power, power over his life and over others, something he never had growing up. And the JCs were just a way to attain that. Meanwhile, at his KFCs that he managed, Gacy hired almost exclusively teenagers and going one step further in the basement of one of his stores. What? Gacy set up what he considered his own club.

What music? Pool tables, food, I never mind. It's back to being insane again. Yeah, I know, I know, I know, I know. Yeah, he had pool tables, music for his employees only. It was only for his teenage employees. And if they wanted to attend, they had to pay a monthly due. It was monthly dues to be a part of this weird little club.

And people would go hang out because he also provided them alcohol while they hung out. Well, of course. And while all the employees and while all of the employees, male and female, were allowed to come, it was noted by multiple people that Gacy only ever socialized with the teenage boys, occasionally even trying to come on to them. And when they inevitably rejected him, he would play it off as a joke and blame the alcohol for them not understanding the joke or worse. Simply say that he was testing their morals.

Now, so he was already trying to hit on his teenage employees. And again, he's 23, 24, somewhere around there. At this time, maybe 25, this is just nuts. But time went on and in 1966, Gacy and his wife would have their very first child, a son, followed by a daughter in 1967. Gacy would be quoted at this point later on to say that it was at this point in his life that he looked back on as perfect. And his father at this time had finally given him the approval.

He so desperately wanted when he went to when he went to go visit his parents after their first child was born in 1966. It's here that his father for the first and only time apologized to him for the abuse that he was putting him through, saying, quote, son, I was wrong. All this guy had to do was not murder 30 people. No, she even patched things up with this fucking abusive father who he hated. Yes, father said, son, I was wrong about you while shaking his son's hand

when he came back home. Oh, my God. I emotional damage. John Wayne, bastard. Yeah, you fucking. He's John, dude. He's he's John Stanley. All right, John Wayne's the kid. Whatever. Patsy's couple of patsy's. But it wasn't just his weird KFC molesters club

or the JC's strange habits that kept Gacy out often at night. Gacy, after all, also desperately wanted to be an officer of the law or at the very least, friendly with the police. What so much so that his wife recalls or his wife called him a police freak and recalls him following emergency vehicles at high speeds with a flashing red light that he had put in his car. Turning into like a flashing light seemed super villain is what he's turning into. Yeah, kind of kind of.

He also went on to join the local merchants patrol, which were what they called door shakers. They were people who guarded their own establishments from breakings and robberies ever the want to be police officer. He would even take his teenage boy employees on evening ride alongs where he patrolled with them, with some of them noting that Gacy always wanted to be in control and always carried a gun on him. However, I don't know how much Gacy truly cared about the law

because while he was out on his nightly patrols, he would also steal car parts with the teenage boys, parking near a car, the parts that he wanted, have the teenage boys run out and steal the the the start to steal the parts off the car, like hubcaps or radios and the like. And if if Gacy ever saw a patrol car, he would honk three times, they would run back and they'd get the hell out of there. So all while he's playing nice with people, he's also robbing people.

Like he's actually taking. He's just that's his thing. He's just doing both sides all the time. Yeah, always. Gacy would also, unfortunately, befriend the local police force quickly with his charm and reasserting that friendship with what else? Huge amounts of free KFC every month or so. I cannot believe this.

Oh, my God, I did not know the KFC angle of this story at all. Gotham City, the Colonel has struck again. We can't figure out who this Colonel is, Batman. All the victims have greasy fingerprints, greasy fingerprints everywhere on the bottom of the car. The cops loved him. Majority of them were fond of him. And I mean, this man's bringing free food all the time.

Of course they love him. He would drink at bars where police would come hang out after hours and have conversations with them talking about their day, how they went about their job and just being a generally friendly face that the cops could feel like they could just chat with and enjoy a night with. All of this absolutely helped to keep the force's eyes off him when Gacy eventually became an active serial killer. Needless to say, outside of his family,

Gacy did everything in his power to build a flattering image of who he was. And for the most part, it worked. He was seen as a man who could accomplish anything he set his mind to, incredibly friendly and hardworking as well as charitable. He would be promoted again within the Waterloo JCs and they saw nothing but potential in John Wayne, Gacy. Gacy was a master manipulator, choosing his social tactics carefully and purposefully,

hard selling people where it would work and in places where it wouldn't manipulation was the name of the game. Some called him a chameleon and a damn good one at that. But the truth of who Gacy was was always bubbling beneath the surface. His urges and desires growing more as he continued to try and lead an outwardly normal life. And in 1967, he would crack for the first time. After one night of work, Gacy approached one of his co-workers, Edward Lynch, a 16 year old part-time employee who never attended Gacy's little club.

At this time, Gacy's wife was in the hospital delivering their second child when he offered Lynch to come back to his place, have a few drinks to relax and play some pool in which Lynch agreed. And I just have to just. Was it just the time period that teenagers were just fine, going to hang out with their like 30 year old bosses? You like culture like there is now. I mean, it was just starting like, yeah, it's nuts.

It's I mean, I don't know. Adults were very trustworthy back then. It's nuts. When they arrived at his house, they drank and played a few games of pool, which Lynch ended up winning. And after he won and asked what his prize was, Gacy offered him his reward. Can you guess what it was?

A blow job. Yay. Gacy gave the blow job. He offered him a blow job. Yeah. Interesting. Lynch immediately declined, which upset Gacy. So after the pool game, Gacy simply suggested that the head upstairs into the kitchen for a minute and Lynch agreed where he would watch Gacy slowly pull a knife from his drawer and told Lynch to go into the bedroom

and Lynch, afraid, obeyed. When he was cornered, Gacy got into a minor altercation on the bed with Lynch before accidentally cutting Lynch's arm, where Gacy immediately stopped to make sure the boy was OK. He got off of Lynch and said they should just head back into the basement. And once again, Lynch just followed, now afraid. He urged he urged Lynch to watch porn with him, no matter how badly Lynch wanted to leave.

What? And he did. And when all the porn was over, Gacy pulled out a chain in a padlock and said, let me try something. Lynch, who at this point was already deep in trouble, agreed. He let Gacy chain his hands around his back with Gacy following up, asking, can you get them loose? Oh, boy. Of course. Lynch couldn't. It was then that Gacy Gacy approached and slowly strode up to Lynch

and pushed him down on a nearby chair before straddling the boy's lap and rubbing his thighs. Oh, my God. Lynch. Lynch quickly pulled his legs inwards, causing Gacy to fall to the floor, which only prompted Gacy to toss the boy in a nearby cot. Gacy quickly chained the boy's feet before starting to strangle him. Lynch struggled unsuccessfully before losing control of his bladder and wetting himself, which seemed to jolt Gacy out of his attack. Lynch immediately played like he was unconscious, noticing that Gacy had stopped,

which seemed to further shock Gacy out of his attack, asking if Lynch was all right. Shortly after he, quote, unquote, came to Gacy, agreed to just take him home. And that is where his certain attack stopped. But it's here. I'm going to move over to one of the books. Nobody said shit about that. We're going to talk about that. I'm going to move over to the one of the books and as we approach the end, I'm just going to read a little passage or a couple of pages out of this

to help better explain what happens next. Later, when he was discussing the attack with a friend, Lynch, that is, was surprised to hear that his friend, Donald Voorhees, Jr. had a similar story to Gacy. And I love that this man's last name is Voorhees, like Jason Voorhees. What the fuck, a similar story? Yeah, this boy, Donald Voorhees, Jr., who, though not a full-time employee, did various jobs for Gacy.

Voorhees was interested when Gacy actually offered him a job that could earn him 50 bucks or so by assisting him in what Gacy said was research for his sex education committee. Voorhees was only 15 at the time. Over a period of several months in various locations, including Gacy's house in the motel, Gacy then forced Voorhees to submit to oral sex. Dude, often he got the boy drunk on whiskey or vodka

before the encounters took place. Gacy himself did not drink after the experiments as they as he called them drink. No, he stayed 100 percent sober because he wanted the control, dude. If somebody was going to alcohol and wasn't drinking, I would be like, why do you have this? Yeah, what the fuck are you doing? Yeah, it reminds me of years ago. I went out to dinner with this group and this one young woman,

lovely person, kept ordering food for the table, but never ate anything. And it was I was like, oh, this person's a killer. That's the first time I thought it was like this. Hell, yeah. Yeah. And she didn't eat anything. And then she was like, I just like to watch other people eat. And I'm like, what the hell? Oh, I was like, no, I'm good.

I never have to see this person again. That person is going to kill my ass. Oh, God. That's a little that's a little weird. That's a little weird after he got them drunk and did his experiments, which is what he called the blow job and the sexual assault that he was performing upon this boy. Gacy would what he would call debrief for

he's asking his feelings and reactions about what had just taken place. And usually he gave him a few bucks as a gift at the end of it all. Man, that's like. It's such a like. It's manipulation. I mean, it is clearly manipulation. But the idea that it has that sort of. Like attitude.

It's like to the nth degree of when someone says something they mean and then immediately say it's a joke. It's like along that same line of I am I want to be comfortable in my gayness. But I am not. So I'm going to make this really freaking awkward and terrible for you. And then I'm going to like assault you. Like there's levels to this that are just out of control. And you you actually nail so much in that one that one statement there

because really what we'll examine in the episode two and episode three is that he's really reenacting with these boys that he kidnaps a lot of what his father kind of beat into him mentally and emotionally on how he sees this. He's like putting the boys in what his position used to be and getting off on it and like seeing this as his satisfaction. He's always wanted to be the on the other side of it, basically. You just want based on his own experience deep and complicated.

Obviously, these these kind of these these moments or these these encounters is the word I'm looking for with Voorhees over and Gacy over the months left for he's very confused and very guilty. Gacy, however, told him not to discuss these experiments with anyone and threatened him with his organized crime contacts in Chicago. I hate that. First off, that's insane. But I hate that he said that. They know. Yes, they know the car in Shaitan.

Yeah, I just get it. It's it 100 percent comes off as an insecurity thing in Gacy that he is doing these things and he's labeling them experiments. But really what he wants is to have gay sexual experiences and he cannot justify it to himself. And like he did the whole thing of just like your prize is I am going to suck your dick. Like that is. And he's like, I imagine he's like waiting to see how they react.

Yes, yes, exactly. And it's it's it's the exact you see it. Here's the thing is you see it on a lesser extent all the time on the Internet where people will say a thing and like I was just joking. It's like, OK, that happens to me every day when I'm like to somebody on Twitter. And it's just so it's it's equal parts messed up and incredibly sad because it's so completely obvious that like

I don't know, man. I don't know if there's this, you know, this dude could have been saved, but you almost feel like there had to have been a way that someone could have reached him because there's some type of potential for him to have led a normal life despite having had such a potential. He was the colonel. Now, he was the colonel making six figures at twenty two years old. I'm saying it's nuts.

It's nuts. We're God. Anyway, moving forward, it became obvious to both Lynch and Voorhees after they discussed it with each other that they got. They just couldn't hold it back anymore. And they became so upset that they decided they had to tell their parents. Voorhees made his disclosure on the night after Gacy's name had come up at the family family dinner table.

Voorhees senior had known Gacy through the JC's and had socialized with him on various occasions. Now, with Gacy's star sending in the JC organization, Gacy was actually making a run for the presidency and he had asked the senior Voorhees to be his campaign manager. So he literally had asked the boy he was sexually assaulting for months, his father to be his campaign manager, which feels weirdly sloppy for somebody who's so meticulous about the moves he seems to make.

Regardless, yeah, it's nuts. I just don't understand why he would have done that in any case. He was considering the matter and told his family of Gacy's invitation. Donald Jr. implored his father not to get involved in the whole story of his relationship with Gacy ended up coming out. Both Lynch and Voorhees Jr. gave statements to the police on March 11th, 1968. Voorhees senior urged County Attorney Ret Roger Peterson to prosecute Gacy and the grand jury heard testimony

of the two youths on April 8th, just a little under a month after they told the cops. On May 2nd, my birthday, Gacy was given two polygraph examinations by the police. He asserted that he had not engaged in homosexual acts with anybody and that he was telling the truth. The examiner, Lieutenant Kenneth Vanus, found reactions, quote, indicative of deception and concluded that Gacy, quote, did not tell the complete truth. The joke in the county attorney's office was that the only thing

Gacy got right was his name. In the following week, the grand jury indicted him on a charge of sodomy. Gacy continued to deny any guilt and tried to disparage the reputations of his accusers. Many people in the community were persuaded and believed that Gacy was innocent because Gacy had done such a good job at building up his persona. In July, Gacy requested another polygraph examination, this time administered by the prestigious Chicago firm of John E.

Reed and Associates. Gacy answered no to four questions about sex with Voorhees, noting, quote, significant emotional disturbances indicative of deception. The examiner concluded that Gacy was not telling the truth unsurprisingly. Gacy finally amended his story, admitting that he had homosexual relationships with Voorhees, but that he had paid for the boy for them, which again is true, which leads to the fact that him paying him at the end. I feel like it was just Gacy rationalizing to himself how he's going to be able

to keep it a secret and that he clearly wanted it because he was paying it for and he kept coming back. And so he's trying to use that as his excuse to get out of it. Despite the evidence of the two polygraph tests, however, nothing much happened in the week of in the weeks after Gacy's arraignment. The community was split into Voorhees and Gacy factions, and the accused had a substantial following both inside and outside the JCs that was convinced he was being framed.

And the reason I think that's the case, because the JCs were probably not up to a whole lot of good shit either and maybe didn't want Gacy to come out about what was happening behind the scenes. That's just math speculation. I don't know for sure. But if what we know is what he's told is true, it makes sense that the JCs would try to jump behind him. Gacy claimed that he had a lot of incriminating information about several

police employees involved in the goings on at the motel. And for this reason, not to mention all the free fried chicken. There was talk that authorities. I can't believe how far a matter and he fried chicken got his ass. It went so far, man. He was my mind. He was so loved. I can't believe how often you're like, and then he gave him a bunch of fried chicken

and nobody thought it was a fucking sex criminal anymore. That's what's nuts to me is like, you know, people talk about Bundy being this charming dude, but Gacy was the charming dude. Like he was the monster. The real crime here is the quality of KFC chicken has declined so much that years ago. He would never fight to keep you from jail. He never would have got away with it if it was twenty twenty two.

Oh, man, he had to give them those fucking disgusting bulls. A people think they're good. Those things are so. I hate those bulls for a long time. Those things are the grossest KFC is. Yeah, they are super. Magic potion tricks you in like, like it's like when you're in in hook and you're eating that fucking bullshit, it's like that.

You're just like, dude, it made me think I wasn't depressed for like 15 minutes. Yeah, then you make you take a nap for six hours. Exactly. What's crazy about this whole situation with Gacy, just to rain it back in that direction is that toward the end of the summer, it looked like the case was going to be let go. It looked like nothing was going to come of it. But then Casey got sloppy again.

Somewhere around the night of August 30th, the 31st of 1967, Casey was making the rounds on his wonderful merchant patrol, his little fake cop organization with his then 18 year old employee, Russell Schroeder. Casey had never made a sexual overtures to Schroeder, a big youth who played football and basketball, but he had been curious to hear about anything that had had got Schroeder into trouble on this night. However, the talk mostly concerned the business that they were checking and breaking into, because again, remember, he was stealing shit from cars

at Brown's Lumber Company. Gacy took a metal bar he kept by his car seat and pried the office door open, deciding that he instead was going to rob the office completely. He told Schroeder to get the money out of the soft drink machine and he picked up a can of varnish and an extension cord. Gacy told Schroeder how easy it was to break into places with his metal bar. At about six a.m. while dropping off Schroeder at his car, Gacy remarked that there was a youth named Donald Voorhees, a witness against him in a

criminal matter who was spreading lies about him. Gacy said he wanted someone to beat up Voorhees for him. Schroeder didn't give it much thought at the time, but a few days later after getting jilted by a girl, I do this. I know he would then go back to talk to Gacy, who suggested he vent his anger and frustration on Voorhees. Gacy pointed out a picture of Voorhees in a high school yearbook and offered to pay off the debt of Schroeder's car, about 300 bucks.

Schroeder agreed to the job and Gacy gave him a can of mace. Schroeder found out the boys class schedule at West High School and met him shortly after three o'clock. Schroeder introduced himself as a big brother representing one of the school's social programs and asked Voorhees to drive out into the liquor country with him, where he had a big cash of liquor. Voorhees accepted the invitation because apparently we still just accept things from strangers and they drove out

to a wooded park along Black Hawk Creek. Schroeder got out and started leading Voorhees into the park. Suddenly he whirled around and sprayed the mace in Voorhees face. Voorhees ended up recoiling in pain and ran blindly trying desperately to wipe the chemical out of his eyes. Finally, he fell into the creek, dousing his face with water. He asked Schroeder what was going on. Schroeder said that somebody had accused Voorhees of stealing some wheels,

quote unquote, Voorhees denied this and Schroeder said, OK, he would take him home. So he maced the man, asked him what was going on. Voorhees is like, that's not true. And he's like, OK, I guess I'll just take you home then. God damn it. When Voorhees walked up the creek bank, Schroeder sprayed him again with mace and hit him with a heavy stick. The two began grappling and Schroeder tried to hold Voorhees's head under water.

This is the stupidest shit I've ever heard in my life. I know, it's insane. Voorhees broke loose and ran into a nearby cornfield. Unable to find him, Schroeder got into his car and cruised along some of the back roads. Finally, he drove back into town. After taking a shower, he drove to Gacy's house at about six thirty at night. Gacy was not at all pleased to see him or to be seen with him. He took the can of mace and told Schroeder he didn't want to know anything

about what had happened. Schroeder then left. Voorhees, meanwhile, called the police and nearby Hudson from a farmhouse. No shit. Yeah, no shit, dude. The cops didn't believe his story at first. But after seeing the signs of struggle at the park, they changed their minds. And the police reported the incident to the county sheriff. Chicken guy. No way. No, remember, Voorhees doesn't know it's a chicken guy.

He just knows that this Schroeder, 18 year old, just jumped him and attacked him for stealing a car that he didn't he mentioned, Gacy. No, he did not mention Gacy at all. After Voorhees identified Schroeder's picture, the sheriff's police picked up the older boy for questioning. Schroeder said that a guy he knew only as Jim had paid him 10 bucks to scare Voorhees, whom Jim suspected of stealing his tires. Schroeder denied the attack and said he had never seen any mace.

Gacy later told him the police couldn't prove anything. It was just the Voorhees boys word against Schroeder's. Gacy continued checking with Schroeder to see if he was sticking to his story. And on Monday of the following week, he told him that either Gacy or his father-in-law would help the boy with his attorney's fees. Schroeder, however, folded under the pressure. And later that afternoon, in the presence of his father and an attorney, admitted that his earliest statement was false and told the police

he wanted to set the record straight. Good man. Gacy's fucking Christ. It took a little bit, but thank God he did it. Gacy's involvement with now out in the open and his motive for having the Voorhees boy beaten was clear for everyone in the town to see. County Attorney Peterson filed three charges against Gacy in connection with the beating. And on Thursday, after Schroeder implicated him in the lumberyard break-in, Gacy was jailed in the lieu of a $10,000 bond.

How did he ever get away with killing that many people after this? Gacy would then, after all this was said and done, be sentenced to 10 years in prison for sodomy. And it was at this hearing that his father would cry the one and only time for his son was being jailed for homosexual sodomy against a young boy. And that was everything his father had feared. Damn, damn. However, while he was sentenced to 10 years in prison,

Gacy, ever the charmer, was good, but well behaved and only served 18 months in prison before being released to the public again. Motherfucker, that's where we'll pick up next week as Gacy truly spins into one of the most horrific monstrous serial killers the United States and maybe the world has ever seen. Good Lord. And that's where we're done. Hey, we're done, everybody. No fun. We're not done.

We got three. We got two more episodes of this. Two or so. Yeah. This is the end of part one episode of part one. Yeah, yeah. It's a part one. We got a part two and a part three to follow. I don't know. You know, as always with serial killer stuff kind of end a little weirdly, but we'll be back next week with more.

How are you guys? How are you boys feeling at the end of this episode? Similar to how I feel at the end of every episode one about a serial killer because I know the next thing that's going to happen is they're just going to murder a bunch of people and get away with it for a really long time. This one, the problem is, unlike the other ones we've done, this one, even though we know how it ends, we had a glimmer of hope.

Yeah, this was like Star Wars Episode One. That Anakin kid, like he might be able to do it. That kid is like, is Gacy Anakin in this scenario in this scenario? Yes, like, you know, maybe, you know, maybe. He can he can pull this off. Yeah, but now he's going to murder those San people and then all the kids and then like he murdered so many people. He can no longer fit them in under his house

and has to start dumping the bodies like but it sucks because you straight up were like, yeah, no, for a while there, everything was fine. I'm like, he said, my life is perfect. My father forgave me. Literally, he had a period of a year ish in his life that he says he looks back on as the most perfect point of his life. Like he had closure. It's it's it's rough, but we'll talk more about that next week

where things get extremely rough. You know, I guess that wasn't perfect, though, because underneath everything he still was suffering. So it's important to note, like, when his his sisters were asked, like, if his father had realized he was gay, what do you think would have happened? Like actually realized it and found out and his sister says they would fear that his father would have beaten him to death. Sure. So like I mean, they were that's so shitty.

There's a lot of people who feel that way. And that's so, you know, it's a messed up thing. But there's like makes me tired. I don't know, man. Yeah, weary. Well, thank you, everybody, for listening to this episode. We'll be back next week with part two of John Wayne, Gacy. We are off to go do a much more lighthearted mini soda

from patreon.com slash no murder, the finest website. Thank you guys so much. We'll see you next week. Come on. Alex broke. Anyway, me and my wife were sitting outside indulging on our porch one night, enjoying ourselves. I needed to go to the bathroom, so I stepped back inside. And after a few moments, I hear my wife go, holy shit, get out here.

So I quickly dash back outside. She's looking up at the sky and I look up to there's a perfect line of dozen lights traveling across the sky. It's Jeep four by four season. Make your next adventure epic and hurry in now for great deals. Now, well qualified, returning FCL SCs get a low mileage lease on the 2023 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Laredo four by four for 329 a month for 24 months with 3,999 do its signing tax title license extra.

No security deposit required. Call 1-889-25 Jeep for details requires dealer contribution at least through Ally Financial. Currently, this must end by 6324. Extra charge for miles over 20,000. Residency restrictions apply. Take delivery by 531-23. Jeep is a registered trademark.