Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 142 - John Wayne Gacy Part 2: Gacy is a Bitch

Episode Date: March 4, 2022

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Gentlemen, do I have a good one today? Is this what you have Deanna doing for research now? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Boba, the Boba Fett and Django Fett of LA. Django Fett? Daddy and son. Who's daddy and whose son? Who's daddy and whose son? Well, if we go by age, that makes me Boba Fett. Oh, for sure, I'm daddy. Let's not pretend. Let's pretend like I'm still in sixth grade when I'm Boba Fett.

So like, I don't know about the part about, you know, I don't know about any of that. And anything that's happened in the last while, he was just a mysterious killer. That's me. That's who I am. Yeah, and then you pick up my head. So that's exciting. I grabbed Jesse's head and his hyper X headset. And I grabbed the helmet. Just touch it.

Do you don't think his head just flopped right out? One like one second on his head flopping out when his head gets decapitated. You can see the shadow of the head detached from the helmet. I want to I want to shout out to Tamara Morrison. I don't want to say anything about bad about him. I think he did a great job in both roles as Django and Boba. I'm not trying to throw stones, but I am trying to throw stones at the writers of Boba Fett, which was what Rodriguez directed it and wrote a bunch.

Didn't it was Favreau? It was Favreau. That's what it was. Yeah. Dude, this was the this was the funeral of Boba Fett was the name of that show. Anyway, I don't want to get into that. I'm just going to it's just going to get me death threats from some number. Remember when Mandalorian showed up and made that entire endeavor better? I do. Yes. The only good show so far that visual edible

that they fed us to help us get over our trauma. Yeah. Yeah. Slow motion for fucking 25 minutes. Where is he up there? He's OK. Yeah, we love him. Fucking weird stuff. I love a movie where they can't show the fucking main character because he doesn't look real.

It doesn't matter anyway. Anyway. Oh, God. You want to you want to teach yourself up for a nice segue to Patreon? I don't even know how to pin that off to you. OK, let's see. Let's see. If you want to hand off your money to me,

head to patreon.com slash Chilluminati pod where you can not just hand it to me, but I will promise. I promise on my heart, cross my heart, hope to die. I will pass it on to Mathis who will then pass it to everyone who we pay to make this fine show. Because honestly, without you guys out there going to patreon.com slash Chilluminati pod, we could never have these just enraging conversations that we're having here on these microphones for you right now. And speaking of men from the 70s who now seem like they have no soul. Let's talk about John Wayne Gacy. OK, all right.

Men from the 70s. I was talking about Luke Skywalker. I was talking about Luke Skywalker. I really think the best part of that was his synthesized voice during that whole scene. It's no different than Anakin being like master. Oh, no, master. We get to see that again in Kenobi, though. I'm excited.

You know what? Here's the thing. They might actually have good directing and scripting and maybe have a like, let Hayden Christensen act instead. No, it's funny. It's funny. I don't care what happens in these stories. It's not like that.

I do not care. The problem is it's not good. It's not done well. That's all. That's all. I'm with you, especially with the Boba Fett. I'm not trying to get off in the weeds here. You know what I mean?

I'm not trying to get off in the weeds of Star Wars. Star Wars. Like bonus episode. Star Wars new canon book club. Fast track to the fucking MAGA. No, no, no. I'm not trying to go down that train here. I'm not trying to go down that train.

I'm not trying to go down on that train. That's not. We got another train. Oh, my daddy. We've got another train to explore today, gentlemen. It is part two of none other than John Wayne, Gacy, and I titled this episode since John Wayne. Oh John, John and the John was the Hutt John.

Uh, this is simply titled John Wayne, Gacy is a huge bitch because damn, hell, yeah. Throwing stuff. We're going to learn today. Last we left off with our Colonel of secret spices. less you boys forget that that was his secret power. John Wayne gave you, you know. How could I forget he won over a whole town with chicken?

It's crazy. Police officers and everything. It makes me so much more mad. I do wonder if the US justice system in today's part will make you even more upset as we continue. So let's go. I'm gonna just go out on a limb and guess. Yes.

It's worth a bet. It's worth a bet. So last time we visited our dear colonel, John Wayne Gacy had just been sentenced to 10 years in prison for the crime of sodomy after sexually abusing two teenage boys and then hiring yet another teenage boy to go beat up in silence the other. Time out really quickly.

It wasn't for assault or rape or it was for sodomy. Sodomy was the charge. This was the time when just being gay was like, that's the crime. Yes, 100%. After that, one particular boy was caught, the one who was sent to go beat up the other one. I can't get over the sodomy bit.

As if the most thing that happened, yes. Yeah, they're like, it's not about men being in love with men and that just freaking me out because I'm weird. It's about the butt sex. That shit's so gross. Can you imagine that butt sex, that crime of butt sex? Off the prison with you. Tell me you've not had butt sex without telling me

you haven't had butt sex. What? You know, oh god. Call me daddy. The colonel. The colonel. Oh, OK. After the boy who got hired to go beat up the other ones

was caught by police, he, of course, spilled the beans, which ended up getting Gacy caught and sent to prison, which would be the one and only time Gacy's father would be seen showing a sort of emotion by crying at the sentencing. Also in the last episode, I spoke about how Gacy himself was very charismatic and highly manipulative.

And while that is true, it was kind of hard to show that in the beginning of his life leading up to the crimes beyond the ever present tantalizing KFC that he used to win people over. But it would be so poetic with your descriptions. I can't help myself. I'm a fat chicken. It was a different time that, you know what?

It was it was actual chicken then. So like, you know, I'll hand it to them. It was probably better when John Wayne Gacy was serving. I agree. I agree. Oh, god. But it isn't until this first prison sentence that we can actually see his personality in full effect.

In this episode, we'll be looking at Gacy's life within prison, his release, and the first few murders leading up to what would be the worst serial killer killing spree the country would see for decades. It's here in prison in this microcosm of society with all eyes on Gacy, that we can see him for who he truly is. Gacy is just a huge bitch.

Before Gacy was sent off to prison, it's, wait till you see how correct that statement is. Before Gacy was sent off to prison in a court hearing, he was ordered to be evaluated at the psychopathic hospital of the state of the state University of Iowa. It's here he would spend a total of 17 days being watched, interviewed, and treated. And when being interviewed by the county sheriff initially

before being sent off to the hospital, Gacy would immediately roll over on nearly every single person he knew within the JCs and those around it. He openly spoke about all of his friends in the JCs, the activities everyone gotten up to, including wife-swapping, prostitution, pornography, and more, all in an effort it seemed to try and clear his own name in some twisted way

or at the very least rationalize and put in a neat box the actions he'd taken that on some level he likely felt ashamed for because of his upbringing. So he just simply rolled over on everybody and told the cops everything instantaneously. What? To show that. But aside from like, yes, I did do that to those boys,

what were they asking him about? Oh, all the things that the JCs were up to, the wife-swapping, the prostitution, that kind of thing. He was trying to get less time, yeah. Yeah, he's basically just trying to like throw everybody under the bus. He's just turning snitch. He's like, he's like being proactive about being a snitch.

Yes. 100% and you're gonna see that moving forward. All in an effort, like I said, no way to like clear his name or feel less ashamed or just get less time. To show that he wasn't, it is more like to show that he wasn't also the only sinner. He's just one of the many caught up in the shady side of the city.

A victim of circumstance. Time out. Yeah. Point of order. Everything that he mentioned, I don't even know that that's a crime. It's not. Well, prostitution is a crime.

I mean, technically as a crime, it shouldn't be. If you film it, it's not a crime. Oh, okay. There you go. Yeah, I'm just saying. Just say it. They're enough.

Yeah, nothing else, nothing else in that regardless though was like a crime. Like none of it. He was just throwing it all out there. The cops were taking notes. Well, I know it's a different time where all that probably was like. Very scandalous, yeah.

Yeah. This is late 60s, early 70s. They were still doing it. It was just scandalous. Oh, yes. Dear carbon footprint, who's got America's largest electrified lineup? Toyota.

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Google Any Hour Services or schedule online at AnyHourServices.com. No one helps more homeowners than Any Hour Services. And while him rolling over, didn't deter them from sending him to prison, it was enough to have the sheriff call and six other officers to all listen to his story, take notes and do something with it.

We don't know what they did, but he did call in a ton of people. This didn't save him from the hospital trip and shortly after he was done confessing everything he could think of, the sheriff brought him and dropped him off at the psychopathic hospital and Gacy immediately got to work.

Friendly and amenable on the first day, Gacy put forward the lie that he was just a private citizen in to seek some help for his personal troubles. The nurses and wards all noted that it seemed like Gacy was immediately feeling out his surroundings. And by the second day, since news travels fast, he was no longer claiming to be a private citizen and instead actively denying that he had taken part

in any of the activities that he was being accused of publicly. And if his point of view or argument was challenged in any way, it was noted that Gacy got, quote, overly defensive of his point of view. So you just like get mega hurt and like defend himself, I guess. Those first few days were a whirlwind for Gacy,

being friendly and talkative one minute, crying for over an hour the next, followed by more crying and eating. He would speak with his wife on the telephone who was threatening divorce at the time, though Gacy refused to accept it if conversations that were over her to correct, constantly telling him that her father was lying to her

about all the things Gacy had done. But eventually, after a few days, Gacy seemed to settle in and his troop demeanor began coming forward as a manipulative little shit. The first order of business for Gacy was the need for power and control over someone, anyone. And soon, Gacy eyed and targeted another patient, one he saw as a rule breaker.

Not one to help him break the rules, Gacy instead took a different approach and he tattled on him. Every single time he broke the smallest rule of the hospital. God damn. Like, yeah, I know, I just like ratted him out. Imagine being the fucking Dwight of jail.

Yes. Yes. What a, that is an incredible comparison, so accurate. Wow. It is. Wow, that's nuts. For Gacy though, this was simply just a first step. To keep him in line and watch him slowly submit

and eventually the tattling would expand. Instead, he would then list out chores he needed his patient to perform, like making Gacy's bed for him and cleaning up after messes. And the patient did so. And over the next short while while Gacy was there, it worked.

The patient fell in line under Gacy and began looking up to him as a sort of quote, otherly figure. He would also go around the ward, boasting a Gacy that is would also go around the ward, boasting about how much money he made, all the expensive cars he did not drive and how much chicken he could eat.

I could drop of a hat. Yeah. And how he could pay people there, double what they were making in an attempt to sway staff. Going so far as to offer a nurse a job once he got out of there, going to, as far as to threaten a report for not, and going as far as also threatening to report the staff

for not cleaning the hospital faster or sooner. So he tried to pay, he would go up and be like, I make so much money. I'll pay you double once I'm out of here. You come work for me instead. And then anytime he disdeemed the area dirty, he would just yell at them and berate the facility people.

Is it a lot like, I don't know currently what his money situation is, but is it a lie that he like, he had bank though, right? Like he was doing well. He was making like a hundred K a year or something though. He was like a fucking millionaire or some shit. But in that time period though, that's a lot of money. But all that came from his wife,

which he now is losing cause she's desperately trying to divorce him even though he won't. Right, right. So he's the old sodomy thing, right? I mean, he's a bad look for a marriage, right? It's just hard to, it's just gross.

So hard to imagine what that would be like. I don't care about the gay part. It's the butt part. Specifically. No. You incredible. Special guest today, Alex Jones is here. He's working after the city that turned us off.

You gross people. Oh, God, unbelievable. What a fucking stupid mindset. I know, man, but this is just like, that's just what it was. And you're going to see that mindset really carry through the whole, the whole story here. And when Gacy wasn't obnoxiously ordering people around or demanding cleanliness from those that worked there,

he was walking around expounding about civil rights in the air, berating the queers and how much he hated them. A very popular topic for him in this time in the hospital, apparently, something that he would constantly, openly, loudly denounce. When Gacy wasn't being loud, obnoxious and lying through his teeth,

he would be playing pool with the other inmates. And he wasn't very good. He lost often. How has that a matter of historical record? How did we find out? Because what he does, because what he does here, it just further shows his character. Because when he lost and he did often,

there was not a single time he didn't have an excuse from his back hurting to being too tired or not sleeping well the other night, even going as so far as saying the table itself clearly wasn't level and it gave him a disadvantage. Is that why they call it fucking no-johns? Is that why? Yeah, it's all John Wayne Gacy related.

No-johns. He is the epitome of a John. The more time it went on, the more it became clear that Gacy could not take blame for anything in his life. He simply seemed unable to. Through the second week, Gacy continued to climb the supposed social ladder

within the hospital. He had given himself a brand new nickname now, no longer the colonel, but instead he called himself the barn boss. What? What does that mean? Isn't that the name of the guy who steals Woody from Andy?

He just, everybody in the mental hospital were animals and he was in charge of the barn. He was a top guy because he'd walk around ordering people around and telling the staff what to do. And he gave himself that nickname, the barn boss. Are you like Googling barn boss right now, Gacy?

I am pretty much the barn boss. Does anything come up? Well, I mean, pretty much what you just described of the person in charge of kind of a mess, but I discovered a book called Barn Boss Leadership on Amazon. By John Wayne Gacy. And I just, it's barn boss leadership

is unique blend of fire, science, psychology, and fire service history. I guess it's for a fire station? By the way, no one involved in this book has ever had butt sex. Don't worry. You're safe from the idea that anybody involved with this

has ever had sex with their butt. Barn boss. I've never heard of the phrase barn boss before, ever. Ever. And you learned something new today. Congrats, Gacy. You know what the crime of sodomy should be? Farting in a stranger's face.

That you should go to fucking jail for. I agree. You know what, you should never fart in a stranger's face. That's an illegal thing to do with your butt. If you want to buy a hat, you can get one on Etsy that says barn boss if that's like your thing.

There you go. Etsy? Who the fuck made that? I guarantee some fucking sicko who reads these fucking John Wayne Gacy. If you're listening, I'd love one of those hats. Feel free to send me one. It says it's made specifically for women, though.

Oh, okay. I don't know how you can make a hat like an actual hat with a brim specifically for women, but that's what it says. It's got a little spot on the bottom for the boobs. Right, right, right, right, right, right, right. On the back, it says no sodomy on it. You did remind me of making that joke

about Gacy writing that book, though. If anybody out there hears my plea, during the research, there is a book, Gacy wrote a book himself called A Question of Doubt, and it's written by him about how he's all innocent, but it's impossible to find unless you're willing to pay top dollar for it. If you know of anywhere I can get this book,

I wanted to read at least a little bit of it so I could see what he, his words were. Is it like 10 pages long? How long is it? No, that's a good question. I don't know how long it is. Let me see, question of doubt. It's at least, it's at least 167 pages

because the last chapter starts at 167. There you go, so it's pretty big. And I get, I'm, it's filled with so many lies, I'm sure. And I just, I so wanted to get like a little bit of a reading before the series, but I just could not find a copy. So if anybody out there has access to one, Shlumanaripata, gmail.com, please.

Amazon, I'll like, if you like this, you may also like If I Did It, by O.J. Simpson. Yeah, yes. Yes, it would be the same. Anyway, genre is like the book where the murderer writes the book, but everybody's like, okay, murderer. If I killed those 18 people and hacked up their bodies

and ate them, this is how I would have done it. But, so yeah, he gave himself the nickname, the barn boss. Moreover, when new patients would arrive at the hospital, he took it upon himself to take them under his wing, guide them through the hospital and give them a personal tour. I thought you were going to say take them under his porch. No, not yet, not yet.

That's later, that's later in the episode. He even made himself the self-proclaimed head Bible teacher in the ward while constantly, while consistently attempting to sway hospital staff for more and more privileges. Were there other Bible teachers, quote unquote? No. He was just like, I'm the boss of the Bible teachers

and everybody was like, what the fuck are you talking about, man? Yeah, I mean, he just, this is what he did. He would move in, but nobody like, what's weird is nobody, or at least nobody like forcibly said no. Everybody just kind of like let him. And when people started like following his orders, it just became like a ripple effect as others were like, okay, well, I guess he's like the barn boss.

So all the other patients kind of just listened to him. This is very weird. This is like killer seven. Like he has like multiple personalities inside him that he's like rolling out. This just proves that he's a psychopath. Like he's putting out this outward appearance, but his true wants and desires

are something entirely different. And we're gonna see more and more of that as time goes on. After a little over two weeks of testing in the hospital, physical and psychological evaluations, and an IQ test that put Gacy at 118, the bright but normal range, it was determined that Gacy was competent and enough to stand trial.

Right, but normal. Bright but normal. That's what my teacher told me at my Montessori school. I was thinking like it just needs to apply himself. Yeah, that's right, but normal. That's the, that's like the gold, that's a participation trophy, if I've ever heard it. I'm gonna quote here, the doctor who evaluated him,

Dr. Gauron, and we're gonna talk, he, we're gonna talk about how much he nailed Gacy right out the gate here. He says quote, Gacy has a high degree of social intelligence or awareness of the proper way to behave in order to influence people. The most striking aspect of the test results

is the patient's total denial of responsibility for anything that has happened to him. He can produce an alibi for everything. He alternately blames the environment while presenting himself as a victim of circumstance and blames other people while presenting himself as the victim of others who are out to get him. Although this could be construed as paranoid,

I do not regard it that way. Rather, the patient attempts to assure a sympathetic response by depicting himself as being at the mercy of a hostile environment. But his way of thinking, a major objective is to outwit the other fellow and take advantage of him before being taken advantage of himself. Alex, Alex, I don't,

I kept looking at Alex and I was like, I think he's thinking the exact same thing. I'm very hailed in one last line. He does things without thinking through the consequences and exercises poor judgment. Now, did the House Select Committee just decide that this guy probably engaged in a conspiracy on January 6th?

I feel like, yeah, this is so familiar to me. I don't. This is so, yeah, it's not like, really, yeah. This guy, he had like a TV show in 2000s. You remember this guy? No. No. Bamos Pizza, remember this? No one would elect someone from the 2000s

who had a TV show. Bamos Pizza, Spokesperson, I don't know, man. Are you sure you weren't just completely stoned? It's possible. It's possible. I mean, you know what? In 2016, the one thing I do remember is that weed was legalized in California.

That's true. Oh, that's all I say. And then four years became a blur. But yeah, that sounds extremely familiar in modern times. And this is who Gacy was through and through. Shout out to that iPhone review that was like, I love this show until they mention politics. Oh my God.

It's crazy to see how dead on he was about it. But instead of having dreams of being president one day, he had dreams of murdering boys instead. I'm positive he fucking did have dreams of being president one day based on what the fuck he was doing. Yeah, you're absolutely. He did. He you're right.

He absolutely did. I just see serial killers and other psychopaths out there. If you apply yourself, it is possible to be both a sex pest criminal and the president of the United States. You can kill people with drone strikes instead of your bare hands. Easier. Gacy was properly then diagnosed with, quote,

anti-social personality, which they describe as basically unsocialized and their behavior patterns bring them into repeated conflict with society. Persons with this personality structure do not learn from experience and are unlikely to benefit from known medical treatment, which for Gacy is obviously pretty dead on. When brought to court for sentencing,

Gacy would plead guilty, but had hoped that his standing in the community would cause the judge to be at least a little lenient or better yet, avoid prison altogether with a probation sentence, which Gacy's probation officer actually recommended after doing a small pretrial investigation on Gacy at the request of the court. And they found Gacy was, quote, imbued with a good work ethic

and would make good under supervision back in Illinois. So they really were like, no, don't send him to prison. Don't send him to prison to be fine. Luckily, though, at least for now, this request was denied with Judge Van Meter saying, quote, the particular pattern you seem to have chosen is to seek out teenage boys and get them involved either in sexual misbehavior or other misbehavior

and unsatisfactory in many respects as imprisonment is, at least that will ensure for some period of time that you cannot seek out teenage boys and solicit them for immoral behavior of any kind. And on December 3rd, 1968, John Wayne Gacy was officially sentenced to 10 years in Iowa State men's reformatory, where Gacy immediately got to work on his public persona

and focused on becoming nothing but the best behaved prisoner. Gacy immediately went to work and first on his own safety, finding, trying to find a group of people that he could buddy up with to keep him physically safe from those who might want to harm him in jail. On top of that, Gacy was openly afraid of the, quote, homosexual activity that happened in prisons

and did everything in his power to isolate himself from those he thought might be gay, which is very, you know, because that's not true. It's so, God, that's just like his father's raising coming through on a lot of ways. I think to himself. It's everyone's father's raising coming through. Yeah, yeah, true, true, true.

It's just a society bent against something completely harmless to itself that they don't understand. And I wonder how much of it is Gacy trying to convince himself of his own urges are not real. I'm gonna go ahead and say all of it. 100%. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He eventually, or should I say very quickly,

ended up getting close to three inmates who ended up under Gacy's spell, all formal former criminal partners together, Raymond Cornell, Larry Polesley and Dwayne Fulton. These three were known to protect each other. And so Gacy ingratiated himself with those three rather quickly. It didn't take long for Gacy to work his way

into their friendship and safety, noting that only while he was among the safety of the three others would Gacy often and loudly voice his disdain for quote, them fucking queers. So he would talk trash, but only when he was around his protection. And when the matter of his own criminal charges came up,

that was nothing more, at least to Gacy, than him being in prison for showing porn to some teens and nothing more. And that's- You know what, you were right. He is a bitch. Yes. You were totally right.

You're totally right, yeah. Thank you, thank you. I feel- I would say anybody who acts like that is a bitch. Yes. Anybody who agrees. Anybody who that psychological profile describes, that's a bitch right there.

That's a huge bitch. Giant bitch. Yeah. Gacy would eventually, of course, in prison be assigned a job. And where do you think he ended up, everybody? Kentucky Fried Chicken, baby. Pretty close.

Right in the prison kitchen. And it's here, Gacy, once again, seemingly flourished. He asserted himself as a sort of straw boss within the kitchen. Straw boss. Barking commands at prisoners. What the hell is a straw boss? It's like a boss who's not really the boss.

It's like a barn boss, but you're like up in the hay loft. Yeah. Okay. He would bark commands at the prisoners and he would take like a managerial role inside the kitchen. And hilariously enough, it worked. The food for the inmates,

while Gacy worked in the kitchen, improved and the cleanliness of the kitchen itself became spotless under Gacy's watch. Beyond the inmates, Gacy also ordered the guards around while working and they listened, which is baffling to me that any prison guards would take any direction from a prisoner.

And continuing on his crusade against gays in prison, anytime anyone who might have been gay was assigned to work in the kitchen, Gacy whined, complained and protested until they were reassigned somewhere else saying they have no place in food service. And now with the food service under his control, Gacy immediately gained even more leeway.

With his role as boss of the kitchen, Gacy used his access and late night pass that he got since he worked there to help out friends. He'd get those he was close with or wanted to be close with in early to the kitchen for their first choice of meats, as well as giving them extra sides and toppings like extra mushrooms and stuff

when he was feeling a little extra generous. And like all things touched by Gacy, this was nothing more than another tool to manipulate and control people. But of course, it worked. He much more closely related to the guards and the prisoners though, having always wanted to be some sort of police officer.

This isn't really some surprise. He may have even been loan sharking on the side in the prison as his three friends noted Gacy always seemed to have money on him, civilian t-shirts and cigars pretty much at all times. I mean, they don't issue, they don't issue prisoners,

government issue cigars for the odd. Yeah, welcome to prison cigar. You get one a month. Yeah, this man like reminds me of like almost as though he was like a fricking prison kingpin, but a bitch one, like a whiny version of the kingpin. He's like, what's his name? The guy who poisoned the ear of the king of Rohan.

What's his name? Yeah, like, yeah, there you go. Brad Doriff, right? That's a deep guy. It's a guy from Deadwood. I don't remember. I look, I'm my, I used to be a steel trap. Now I'm just a rusty old hunk of metal

in a field somewhere. Waiting for that serial to step on. Waiting for somebody to ask me if I worked at Blockbuster in 2010. But that, this all was only the start as Gacy and his trio quickly became known as what's the people in the prison called power inmates. Those who ingratiate themselves

into as many different activities as possible to hopefully be up for parole much sooner as being so to be seen as like a positive inmate. You know what's the worst is that I totally did this at high school. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's not that uncommon of a tactic. Like I know high school isn't jail, you know,

as much as we like to. What is it? I mean, dude, if you're in a fucking place where you're a grown ass man and you're giving somebody power because they gave you some fucking mushrooms on your fucking dinner, that's a shitty place. That's not high school.

Yeah, it's a garbage place. But I, that does not leave out the fact that while I was in high school, I totally had my own office. I totally had a laptop checked out to me from the office. I was, I planned events. You know, I, you know, I was that bitch. I wasn't.

You were the John Wayne Gacy of high school. Something like that. No, but real talk, like, I don't know. There's a personality profile that, that is like, you know, you can, you can get ahead if you realize that you can talk to people and stuff. It's weird. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Gacy ended up in prison joining the chapter of the JCs that was in prison and quickly rose to director of the prison chapter of the JCs. He also served as prison chaplain and played Santa Claus at Christmas time for everyone, which then got him the award of sound citizen. So he didn't. So, okay.

So everybody's talking about the clown all the time. Yeah, that comes later. And he also was Santa. He was Santa in prison. Yeah. That's fucking crazy, man. Yeah. And it won him an award doing all the stuff.

He got the sound citizen award. The Santa Claus award. The best Santa Claus in prison award. Yet as large and in charges, Gacy had very quickly become amongst his peers. He was an absolute coward as well. When people threatened him or wished to fight him, he had a tactic that worked every single time

that got him out of it. And as an example, one of his friends Cornell at one point, while they were working on a mini golf course for the JCs had an disagreement with Gacy and actually stepped up to fight him. What happened next is kind of funny. Immediately Gacy took his hands up and clutched his heart.

He became pale. He collapsed to his knees and began having seizures before he fell to the floor and he got taken away. And that would be his routine every time somebody tried to fight him. That's what you do when you're like attacked by a bear. Like that's fucking stupid.

Yeah, just like, oh, and he fall over and just have seizures, quote unquote. And like it worked and people wouldn't fight him. And that's all he did. Like he was so, he was so pathetic. All this, by the way, happened in less than a year. But his first real blow to his ego, ego while in prison had yet to occur.

Soon within that year, Gacy learned that despite his protests, his wife was divorcing him. He openly blamed his father- I can't imagine why. God dang it. Yeah, weird that she would wanna leave and get out of there. With their two kids especially.

He openly blamed her father and his father-in-law for convincing her that the lies were real and spoilers, they were real. And she was being blind and making a stupid decision for her and their kids. They would have one trial while he was in prison where he would see his ex-wife and kids one more time. And though visitation rights were left pending,

Gacy ultimately would never see his kids ever again after this. And after only six months, Gacy began applying for early parole. He was of course denied, but this did nothing more than drive Gacy to double down on being a model prisoner and leaving these prison walls. It was the absolute last place Gacy wanted to be,

no matter how much he played up that he was enjoying his time and trying to be a better person. And after nine months of imprisonment, his next emotional blow would come. Gacy's father would pass away from ill health. Parole would arise again within that timeframe and the family also was trying to urge the prison

to release Gacy early now that his dad had passed. But they still denied him. Though noted that he had made marked progress and would be a good contender for the next round of parole hearings. And so Gacy continued. He went and finished 16 high school courses and earned his GED while in prison.

After 21 months in prison, however, Gacy would luck out as parole would finally go his way. They had seen enough improvement in effort on Gacy's behalf to be a better person. And when they interviewed Gacy, they told the doctor that he no longer, he told the doctor rather that he no longer held any of the thoughts that he once did

and had grown from that. And that was- Imagine if you just tell people like, yeah, I'm better. And it worked. Yeah, it would be nice. That'd be so nice. And that's all they needed to hear. Releasing Gacy under a few conditions that he,

one, he live in Chicago with his widowed mother under a 10 p.m. curfew. And two, he not be seen doing anything of a homosexual nature. And just like that, yeah, just like that, Gacy was a free man serving just a fraction of his initial prison sentence. And let's be real.

That motherfucker followed that fucking rule, hard core. Yeah, oh yeah. He stuck to it. Yeah. He didn't let anybody see shit for a long time. His probation or whatever literally was you cannot engage in anything. I can't believe that they were just like,

all right, we're gonna lay out a prison. But can't be gays. No son of me. You rascal. You can't. Don't you do it. Don't do the gay. Okay.

You're from them. God, fuck just. Oh my God. And just like that. That's it. That's all it took for Gacy to be free. I just don't understand. I just don't understand.

Just yeah. Like people like, ew. That is so, that is pussy shit. That is like the worst. That is like the weakest shit ever. I know. And it was so much worse back then. Now living with his mother in her apartment

with a job at a local kitchen, thanks to the favor of a family friend, because he always ends up in food places. Gacy was meant to be on his best behavior. The restaurant he worked at Bruno's was a local hotspot for the town, a place where people regularly came in from all parts of the town during dinner

to grab a bite or get a drink, especially the police force, which Gacy immediately took to buddying up and chatting with them, using his influence to have free food before becoming a sort of host for them when they came to drink and hang out. I've never been more aware of how food

ingratiates people to me now. I am never, I'm not gonna trust anybody who ever offers me free food ever again. Yeah, you just immediately feel like friendly with them. And then these police officers immediately became buddies with Gacy. Like he would talk to them about what they were doing that night, the jobs they were on,

what events they went to, like what kind of calls they had that night. He lived vicariously through these police. Dear roads, trails, and rivers, are you ready for some SUV action? Toyota SUVs can roll their sleeves up for twisty trails or dress up for a night out on the town. Up your family adventure game with the Highlander,

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Jeep is a registered trademark. Though he was still on probation, Gacy would actually be up for full discharge that coming June of 1971, a year after he left prison. And he got it. But I'm not so sure he deserved it as he technically violated parole twice within that year.

The first would be with a 21-year-old man named Michael Reed. He went on to say that in November of 1970, just five months after Gacy's release, he would encounter Gacy as he was cruising through Chicago in his car. After a brief and apparently friendly interaction, Gacy took Reed into his car and brought them back to his mother's apartment

where Gacy gave him a handjob while he was jerking himself off. Yeah, he maintained regular contact with Reed though from that point on. Even going into business with Reed, but we'll go into that in a moment. What the fuck kind of transaction are we talking about here? I know, you'll see.

The business, when he started his contracting business with technically with Reed, that's how his contracting business began. We'll talk a little bit about how that started after his second violation, which was in February of 1971, where Gacy was actually arrested once again for this one. A 19-year-old boy named Alan Lemke

filed a complaint against Gacy, saying that John Wayne Gacy brought him back to his apartment and the two engaged in having sex. It did not seem like Lemke was wanting it yet in response. Gacy filed a similar report on him, putting the blame on Lemke, and then for whatever reason, Lemke did not go through with filing any charges

and the case was simply dropped. Technically, his parole was violated and Reed never went and reported him to the cops obviously, at least initially. What the fuck? The business that Gacy started with Reed, however, it was his contracting work. Painting, maintenance, et cetera,

and the people he worked for were those he knew at Bruno's restaurant from his other job. However, now that he was starting his own business, the apartment they were living in was far from ideal for Gacy if he was going to start his own, and so he needed space.

So he very quickly convinced his mother to buy a house and they both moved in, as well as Reed, who lived with them for a while. They all moved into 8213 Somerdale in Chicago in the autumn of 1971. The place Gacy would spend the rest of his life as a free man and one that would see the horrors to come. Reed ended up sleeping in Gacy's room

and would go on to say that even back then, Gacy's fantasized openly about playing policeman, even saying that he went as far as going out and pretending to be one of them, talking about cuffing young men and beating the young men he picked up, but Reed didn't believe that Gacy was actually doing any of that.

That opinion would quickly change. One night, Gacy told Reed that he wanted to swing out for something real quick. There was a nursery not too far away that had shrubbery that Gacy thought would look great at his new home and planned on stealing that shrubbery with Reed.

When they arrived, Gacy hopped out of the car and as Reed went forward, Gacy turned back and got a tire iron out of the car. Reed saw this and asked why he needed that and Gacy simply responded in case there's any trouble. When Reed further pressed Gacy about what trouble he was expecting, Gacy essentially threw a hissy fit,

told Reed to forget the whole thing, get back in the car, they didn't need the shrubs that badly and they went home. That would cause me personally a red flag, but Reed did not think about it for a second and continued living with them. Like, he was definitely gonna hit him in the head, right?

Right, yeah. 110%, he was gonna crack him in the head with a tire iron, yes, 100%. What the fuck did he think was gonna happen? I don't know. I don't know why he didn't just go after that. We can, nobody's ever expecting anybody to fucking murder them.

Man, I would scare the shit out of me if I turned around and I'm like, why do you need that? And he's like, case is trouble, what trouble? Nevermind, let's just go home. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. That's the part where it gets a little bit gray. Yeah. Oh, God.

It's a whole hindsight picture. Like, I know it's John Wayne Gacy, but like still. Like, fuck. Yeah, nobody knows at this point. It's nuts. What about the two times he got arrested for sexually assaulting people at one time when he went to jail for, I mean,

he lied about it. He lied, he went to jail and said he was showing porn to people. That's what he warped the lie to. He lied to the inmates, right? He didn't lie to the cops knew why he was there. The judge knew why he was there. Yeah, yeah, of course the cops and stuff,

but these people he's interacting with right now or read and so on, he's lying to them as well. Like, just to show you how times have changed. If, I don't know, anyone I knew was like, yeah, I went to prison, but it was just for showing porn to kids. I would still have a problem with that. I would be, I wouldn't be lying for saying,

you know what, grab your tire iron, let's go. I also, I don't think you go to prison for showing porn to kids. I mean, maybe I don't know the rules. Yeah, I actually don't know the answer to that. It's a story of like, I showed porn to a 19 year old man or how old was the kid, 16? They were like 15, 14, 16-ish.

I showed him porn once and then I'm in jail now. 10 years in prison. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it is a few, you know, question about that. People just don't know what the questions are there. If, if, if you told me that, I'd be like, okay, yeah. Regardless though, Reed stayed.

And a few weeks later, after a day of work, after they were returning home, Gacy shut the garage after they parked the car and told Reed to go check under the workbench for a spare fuse, which he did. Without warning, Reed suddenly felt a blow to the back of his head, followed by warm blood trickling down his face.

Mother fuck, man. When he spun around, he saw Gacy standing, looming over him, holding a sledgehammer. Reed stood up, grabbed Gacy, asking him why he hit him, to which Gacy replied, he didn't know. He had, he had just got a sudden urge that an over, he had just gotten a sudden overwhelming urge to kill him. And this was the dude that they were like,

a few weeks ago, giving each other hand jobs in a car. Yeah, yeah. Back at home. They would drink to each other. Saw him pull a tire iron on him, just decided, fuck it. And then, I mean, what kind of guy is fucking John Wayne Gacy, man? What the fuck was it like to talk with him?

I, I've never seen an interview with him. I've never seen. Oh, listen to, oh, if you listen to him, you're like, this guy sounds like a bitch. Cause he does. He does. I was listening to a couple of interviews the other day. He's like, very amy, amy, amy, amy.

There's a, there's like a disassociation happening with him that's fascinating on a psychological level where he is like, he is living both a homosexual lifestyle and actively hating it in other people. So when he, so he's like, he's like, oh, this guy right here. I'm gonna beat up this queer.

I swear to God. At the same time that he's like, but he has great hand jobs. Yeah. It's, it's interesting. I think we'll talk more about it in next week's episode, which will be, I think the last episode, but it's almost like he's living out his,

like he's, he's taking out his frustration or rage that he's gay on these people when he goes into these modes. And some people, and one of the books I read, I can't remember which one, they, they posit that, you know, in those moments, he becomes his father and he's, he's like, his father. And so his father is killing those. And he's like, almost like, see dad, I am a man.

I'm killing these fruit pickers. I'm killing these queers, which is what he would say all the time. Again, like we talked about last time, just checking off boxes. But yeah, but it all gets intertwined when the sex gets mixed up and, you know, we watched Gacy become what is known in the textbook

as a process killer, a control and power killer. He doesn't want the body, but he lives in the fantasy in the moment. And then when it's done, he like clicks back on, he doesn't want the body. It's like the last thing he wants. And he tries to go back normal life until the urge rises again, that he has to do it again.

So it's nuts, but yeah. So Reed swung around, grabbed him, why'd you hit me? And Gacy simply said, he just got the sudden overwhelming urge to kill him. Reed ended up pressing no charges and simply just moved out the next day, just left. Clearly at this point, Gacy is in what's known as his ramp up period and would be known

as a power and control serial killer going forward, one who derives pleasure from the pain and control he has over others. Do we have any kind of, I don't know, in any of these books or in any of this, the research, I have to imagine after everything about John Wayne Gacy comes out, this dude and like the people who led him out on parole,

like all these people that should have stopped this from happening along the way, who should have said something, who were like, none of my business. Do we have any conversations with them after the fact? Like, so. Molded, yeah. I mean, a few, but nothing huge.

Really, like the people, he slipped under the crack. There's gonna be, we'll talk about in this episode still, there's a couple of moments where the system truly failed and like had a few moments to after, obviously catching. Sounds like it, yeah. But no, we don't, like we have interviews

with the living victims that came forward, his ex-wives who came forward, his sisters that came forward, but the only side of the police that I had was the book from the perspective of the individual investigator, and then the police chief who was running the case after they discovered the kill

that would lead them to discover John Wayne Casey killed all of them. That wasn't until 1978. So we don't really have anybody who kind of like slipped through other than the quotes from the doctors and what he was doing with the officers in the meanwhile. If that, yeah, it's like, we don't, we don't really have any, like major interviews

with those people. It's crazy that no one reached out to all of these people in his life because the thing today, if someone does something insane, they're like on the block where the person grew up asking random neighbors like, what, I don't, they seem like a nice boy to me.

Yeah, I mean, we do have like things like that where people said Casey was like super charismatic and friendly and very ambitious and like, you know, was kind of known around the town and stuff, but beyond that, we don't have any of like the police officers who kind of failed at like holding him and stuff, any interviews from them or anything.

It's just like, he just slipped through constantly. Regardless though, in that moment, or rather, it would still be a while. Yeah, he's in his ramp-up period is what I was saying. And the ramp-up period is like, he's slowly giving himself more and more permission to do things more and more, slightly more violent, slightly more aggressive, slightly more dangerous.

But it would still be a while yet before Casey would fully cross that line into serial killer and in an attempt to continue being perceived as normal, Casey was soon to be married. In May of 1971, Casey became reacquainted with a high school friend named Kathy Hall, just as she was getting divorced from her first husband. And in that, they had something in common

and the two began spending more and more time together. Before long, Casey was already speaking of marriage to Kathy and Kathy quickly became pregnant with Casey's child. And taking this opportunity, Casey said how much he'd always wanted a family of his own and that he loved her. However, in only a couple of months, she would have a miscarriage,

but not before she would move in with Casey with her two daughters into the house that Casey and his mother were living in. They would have their own room and Casey would sleep on the couch and his mother ended up moving back out to an apartment of her own, just due to how cluttered the house would become

with so many people living in it. Also in that time, Casey took up what he would call his favorite hobby, a twice a month appearance as none other than Pogo the Clown, where he would entertain children at birthday parties. He would go on to say that when he put on the clown makeup, he felt real relief and could actually relax.

That being a clown brought him back to childhood in some way and who doesn't want to be a kid again. He would also say in one of the interviews, he's afraid that he gave clowns a bad name, which is hilarious because kind of did. I mean, he did, but I mean, just look at those fuckers. I mean, they're horrifying. I don't have like a clown fear,

like, you know, like where I like see them and I get freaked out. But I don't like them. Yeah, you look at them and there's something wrong. There's something off. There's something wrong. Yep. Something off about you or there's something wrong

with you if you want to be a clown. It's not bad. It's just visually the pale pale skin with the like cartoonish features. It's like uncanny valley IRL. I don't like it. Yeah, I can see that. I can see that.

That's why you just put a picture of a clown and it just looks like it was like a horror meme. Just like, hey, there's a clown standing over there. Like, yeah, it became like a very big horror. Yeah, you're right. If only being a clown, though, was enough to keep John Wayne Gacy under control. His true desires were still inching forward still to make up

on all the fucking time, bro. Right. If he's truly feeling like a kid, just be Pogo every day, dude, just do it. His true desires were inching forward and soon his wife had a rule placed on her. She could not go into the garage. The garage was his space. And beside, even if she wanted to,

there was only one key and he had it. So that was a rule. You know, out in the garage. This is like a story I heard about like a friend's cousin who married a woman who was like, yeah, no, this is my room. You're not allowed in this room. Nope. And I was like, bro, you got to go. He's like, yeah, and they were married for like 25 years

and she just had a room that was her room. And I was like, what? He's like, yeah, it was her room. And that's like, it was fine. I'm like, that's not fine. That woman is a killer. Like, what are we fucking talking about here? Like, what they mean?

Had his own locked up room. Gacy has his own room. I'm saying they were a married couple. One of them passed away. I'm not sure which, but like, they were a married couple. And for 25 years, the wife had a room that was. Her room and no one was allowed in that room. And I'm like, that's a killer's room.

That is. What was in the room? Yeah. I don't know. I couldn't tell you. All I know is that like, then they moved out. Whoever, whatever spouse was left alive left. And I'm like, that is, I'm wondering how one of them died because that is a killer's room. That's yeah, that's a serial killer cliche right there.

Well, by the following Christmas, Gacy was on the edge of doing the unthinkable. That New Year's Eve night, he and his wife were out at a New Year's Eve party. After some time, Gacy got bored while his wife was drunk and enjoying herself. So Gacy left her there. As he tended to do on nights where he decided

he wanted to pray on innocent people, he began cruising the streets of Chicago with his red light, gun and handcuffs. His usual routine for luring unsuspecting boys into a false sense of security was simply to play as a cop. Most ended up capitulating once they heard someone say, stop police or cops. And on this night, it would be 15-year-old Timothy McCoy

who was on his way home from Christmas break that crossed paths with Gacy. Timothy McCoy was one of four children of Jack McCoy and Norma Susie's study with siblings Terry, Linda and Cindy. Jack was given away twice as a baby and joined the Navy later on at 17, the father or the brother, rather,

rather the father, my bad. Susie had nine siblings and he was close with his family, including his grandfather and grandmother, as well as his siblings and cousins. McCoy spent his teenage years hitchhiking across America, though this was safer in the 60s and 70s, supposedly. I don't know how true that actually is. I don't know how real dangerous it was

to hitchhike in the 60s and 70s, but I can't imagine. There's no fucking way that anybody can measure the danger of hitchhiking. Yeah, I just can't imagine that that was something that was always the same. Rate of murders in America? Yeah, I do wonder how that's measured, but seriously, there is no way.

Timothy McCoy, the 15-year-old, had a large family with many cousins on his mother's side and all contacted family members, spoke fondly of him. His grandmother said he was her favorite of the her 33 grandchildren, despite McCoy accidentally locking her in a post office one time, which is kind of funny. His parents were divorced at the beginning of the 1970s

and an unsubstantiated anecdote says that while he was hitchhiking across the country, McCoy began dating a girl in Florida and he got her pregnant. Allegedly, he sent her a bus ticket to Omaha to be with his family and he would meet her there where she gave birth to a daughter. Some family members believed the story

while others doubt the McCoy that McCoy actually fathered this child. So he might have a kid, like there might be a kid by his name. That's so, how do we not know that? Maybe it's been updated now, but I imagine they didn't do any DNA testing or anything. Fair enough. Fair enough. Yeah.

McCoy arrived in Chicago at midnight in January of 1972. At the bus station, a car pulled up and offered him a ride around the city and the driver was none other than John Wayne Gacy. McCoy accepted and they drove for several hours until McCoy grew hungry and Gacy took him back to the house on Semmerdale Avenue. They entered and Gacy gave McCoy

190 proof clear grain alcohol. Oh my God. Yeah. And that's like, God, dude, like how do you drink that? By the time he had him drinking, they eventually broached the topic of sex. According to accounts, McCoy was straight, but Gacy asserts that they had a sexual encounter, which I'm sure he raped the kid.

After Gacy said he would drive McCoy back to the bus stop in the morning and they would sleep in separate rooms until morning. As he, the next morning, when Gacy woke up, he woke up and saw Timothy walk into the doorway with a knife in his hands. Gacy immediately stood up from bed and lunged at the kid and the two fought briefly

where Gacy received a cut on his arm from the knife that Timothy was holding. That's when Gacy, as he put it, quote, held a surge of power from my toes to my brain. He quickly tackled the young boy to the ground, wrestled control of the knife from his hand and plunged the knife into the boy's chest over and over and over again.

Oh my fucking God. After the deed was done, Gacy stood up and made his way into the kitchen where he saw cooking eggs and unsliced bacon, realizing that the kid was simply only cooking breakfast the morning after and was coming into the room to check on Gacy if he was still sleeping.

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so they're not just comfortable and stylish, they're built to last. Plus, every single burrow order ships free right to your door. Right now, get 15% off your first order at burrow.com slash podcast. That's 15% off at burrow.com slash podcast. Yeah, he literally just assumed the worst or maybe just saw his chance to have an excuse.

Maybe he was looking for an opportunity to give himself a reason. There's also a projection. Like, yeah, why else would someone be standing there except to kill, right? Like, yeah, that's what he does crazy. Oh, yeah, you're you know, you make a good point. And it's 100% also projection.

It makes sense. This is when Gacy made a decision that he'd make repeatedly for the next few years. Timothy was the first body to be slid under the crawl space in the garage under the house at Gacy's home. I was as he was cleaning up his crime scene. And again, it kind of gets gross.

I mean, it's already pretty gross, but it's going to just get grosser. Everybody out there just a warning as he was cleaning up his crime scene. Gacy took note of the boy's shorts that were still on the floor now entirely covered by blood. But he noticed he said something else mixed in as well. And to quote Gacy himself.

That's when I realized that death was the ultimate thrill. He had finally crossed that line, permanently tying his sexual urges to sex, his sexual urges to death and murder. Something he had clearly toyed with in the past. So he's implying that he saw that he basically came his pants while he was murdering the kid and didn't realize it until like he stood up and was cleaning the mess.

Yeah, it would be two full years before Gacy would kill again, entering what is known for a serial killer as a cooling off period, as is typical for serial killers. Once they seem to get that first kill out of their system, many seem to slow down. Sometimes for years at a time, almost like they sated the urge and they're finally OK or free. But eventually, the urge becomes too much for them to handle

and the cooling off period comes to an end. And that period between each kill becomes less and less and less. But that doesn't mean Gacy wasn't without his incidents. As only four months after his first kill, he would have another run in with another teenage boy who worked at a local restaurant. Gacy was out prowling in his car as he tended to do often and flashed his red lights while shouting at the kid that he was police.

It wouldn't be long before the kid found himself in handcuffs in the back of the car and it's there. He realized Gacy was far from a police officer. Once he had him secured in the back of the car, Gacy turned to the kid in the back and asked, what's it worth to you to get out of this? God damn, clearly. Yeah, it's a nightmare. And the kid now clearly scared, said he had nothing on, no money or anything.

Gacy simply replied, would you suck my dick? From there, Gacy. Yeah, sorry, you can't see it, but Jesse just looked stunned from that particular particular line. Yeah, no, he just was just like, would you suck my dick? From there, Gacy drove him back to the restaurant that the kid worked at. Now it's about three a.m. And he forced the kid to let him in the back door with his spare keys

where Gacy drug him into the bathroom and began to beat him ruthlessly, punching him in the head over and over. Luckily, however, the kid never went unconscious and was able to escape his grasp and run into the streets. Gacy gave chase, got into his car, ran, drove down the road and bumped into the kid before seemingly randomly gave up, drove off and left the kid in the street. Now, this is interesting that he decided to just stop after he had them.

And I just wonder if it's like for just psychologically, he lost control of the situation and the fantasy ends up breaking because he's like, you know, he's in the moment. He has him. He's punching him. He's got him under control handcuffed. The kid slips out and now suddenly the fantasy is kind of broken and he just can't get it again. I guess for the lack of it goes back to what you were saying at the beginning

of this whole thing, which is that John Wayne Gacy is a bitch. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That that always I think that's just a state. I think it's just a question of like, like, have you ever bought a video game? Started playing it, got just glassed in the first hour of the game and then turned the game off and went and done something else. Yeah. Oh, plenty of times. That's what he did with fucking murder. Yeah.

But to the kid's credit, he did go to the police. But for whatever reason, and we don't really know why, whether the courts had just too much on their plate or there was some technicality, Gacy was merely let off with a warning. What the fuck are you talking about? A warning for legs. Thank you. That's what I wrote.

And I was like, a warning for what? Attempted murder and rape. Like how you have him in the court. You have his history. He's he's had run ins in the past. How in God's name do you not just look at them? Go put him back in prison, dude. He didn't bring fucking chicken within the police station. Did he?

No, but I mean, I wouldn't be surprised. We had a sneaky little KFC drumstick in his pocket for the judge. Can you? So he was. Why was he just given a warning? Do they say just the speculation is that the courts had too much on their plate or some technicality. The way the warning works is that he got issued a warning. And if he was brought in again,

they would reopen the case and send him. And he was brought in for what? Beating the kid in the in the in the in the restaurant and attempted, I'm assuming, attempted murder and rape, but he just got a warning for it. And I don't know why they only gave him a warning. It's insane. Between the murders, him and his wife also ended up stop

ended up stopping sleeping together. They were no longer being intimate. While not necessarily out of the ordinary, the reason behind it really was Kathy, his wife, often would walk into their bedroom only to see Gacy lounging around completely naked, sat on their bed, wildly masturbating to gay pornography right in front of her.

Often when they went to bars, Gacy commented on other men and how tight their asses were. His wife also noted how often Gacy would come home incredibly late, headlights off and sneak away immediately into the garage that she was banned from. At this point, it's also important to note that Gacy's small contracting company was now in full swing and he had a habit of hiring young men.

Many of whom late at night after work, he'd bring home to have sex with. So basically, he was openly himself, I guess, in a weird way around his wife. And like just like I said, just like lounging around jerking himself off all the time in front of her to just a porn. So I can't stop. He's a mutant, right?

Like he has the ability to just make people ignore their most obvious. Don't understate. I know, I know. I I'm still obsessed over the fact that this guy was just let off with a warning like I can't stop thinking about it. And I don't I can't figure out why. And I don't know if it was. There's no reason. I mean, there has to be a reason.

And like the only reason 11 herbs and spices, Jesse. I just see like there's like I have to. I have like his persona. This is darkest shit, by the way. But his persona of being a guy who's like. I don't tolerate gayness. Like I wonder if the judge was like, oh, well, he beat up that gay kids like that's fine.

You know what I mean? Like, yeah, that is a thing that definitely happened. And I just don't. I mean, like it reminds me of that South Park episode where the Japanese business guys are like, you guys have such big penises. Wow, that's so cool. Wow, man, your your penises are so much bigger than ours.

And everybody's like, OK, you rat. You rascals. It has to be like I don't like either. These are some of the most deplorable officials ever. Not that I believe it. Not that like the justice system is in a piece of shit and not that police officers are often total shit lords that shouldn't be trusted to do their own jobs.

But like what the like this is like the one thing we can all get together on in this country for the most part, unless it's, you know, other people who have gotten the same psychological profile, you know, the one thing we can all come together on is that sex crimes are bad. You know what I mean? And in this case, this is open and shut. And I just don't even understand what a police officer

stands to gain from this, because obviously after this happens, right, and then he turns out to be fucking John Wayne Gacy. You're in the you're on the shit list for letting him go with a fucking warning, right? Let me be specific. The judge gave him a warning. He got brought in before the court. The judge gave him a warning and let him off.

And I think I mean, that's that's why I think the only thing I can come up with is like the dark explanation of like they didn't view these young men who were homosexual as like people. Well, I mean, then we get into the topic of the less dead, right? Those who are forgotten and left behind when it comes to killing prostitutes happens all the time. Yeah, gay men are another big one. Like they're like, yeah, well, yeah, literally. And that's how they get away with it for so fucking long.

And I think that definitely plays a role here on top of Gacy being constantly trying to buddy buddy himself with all these people and making himself this lying to everybody. It's like Ted Bundy in that way, right? Like where he outward persona was this meek little guy that everybody would like felt bad for. But then Bundy was a fucking horrendous monster. And it's a gacy similar.

And he learned to cope with all this from a father who like beat the shit out of him for expressing like love. That was like, no. And so he learned to hide that part of him and he just played everyone. And it's like so frustrating that everyone fell for it so easily. Like it just says a lot about their character, too, but whatever. And you know, again, you said a thousand times, it speaks of the time as well. I get so mad at these like crimes that take place in like a society

that resembles our own. And you know, I I get mad all the time at like the state of things. I get so mad all the time at the state of like the justice system in 2022. The way that like, you know, society is the way like bigotry is all that stuff. And then you look back at this shit and you're like, far like the six season 70s were so scary when it comes to just like serial killers out there and shit. Not just serial killers. Like if you're just a gay person or a black person or a woman like fuck.

Man, it's still like that today, though. It's like when it comes to the last dead, it's still like there are plenty of stories out there of killers who got away with it for so long because they were targeting sex workers or it's just I think about it today. Like all the time, like it couldn't be worse. We're in like the worst case scenario right now. And then it just like every time that I, you know, obviously we're looking at this in the context of violence towards people

and like this guy who did a bunch of violence. But it's always this fucking story over and over again. You find out that it actually was worse. And this is like the good version that we're dealing with right now. Like this is like us progressing and that like sucks. Yeah, agreed. It sucks. Continuing, though, like I said, he was hiring young men

and he was sleeping with them in his garage all between like that first killing and what would be the second killing while he openly decried and hated gay people and claimed that he wasn't no fruit picker. Gacy seemed to be fine, though, labeling himself as bisexual. So long as he was also sleeping with the woman, he wasn't gay. But at the same time, he wasn't sleeping with any women. It seemed to him as long as he was married, that in his mind, meant he was bisexual.

Formulated coping mechanisms to have it, honestly, is like this is a stretch, but it's very similar to my relationship with my parents sometimes as a kid. Again, this is a stretch. I don't know. This is a stretch. But but I understood, like I would clean my room not because I wanted to clean my room,

because I was sick and tired of my parents always yelling at me to clean my room. So finally, I just started doing it so they would never bug me again about it. And that's it's that same coping mechanism here, where he's like my father beats the crap out of me. And so now in order to make him happy to get him to stop, I'm going to be like the biggest piece of shit on planet Earth and he's going to translate that. Well, at the same time, still like I still made a mess in my room and I definitely like hid stuff under the bed, but it looked clean

and they saw presentable. Yeah, all they had to do is walk by the room and see a clean room. And that's all they wouldn't say anything. Yeah, it's reverse psychology of the like worst type. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Toxic psychology. Yeah, 100 percent. Kathy would remain with Gacy for still a few years yet, though,

after two years of seemingly keeping his composure on a night in January, 1974, Gacy's urges would take hold once again and he would kill. Unfortunately, what we know of the second victim is very little. To this day, the body has been unidentified and it's one of five still I on an unidentified victims of John Wayne Gacy found in his house. What we know is simply one night, Gacy took home another boy and this one he strangled to death. Shortly after his death, Gacy stored the body under his bed,

which would become normal for him moving forward, always keeping the body under his bed for 24 hours before moving it. The body, according to Gacy, ended up leaking fluids from the face, staining his rug, which he noted was the reason from then on that he stuffed the mouth with cloth rags or available clothing. This time, the cooling off period shortened. Less than a year later, Gacy moved on to his third victim. At this point, his wife, Kathy, and he divorced.

The final argument that apparently ended the marriage was overbalancing a checkbook. But she would continue to live there into 1976, even though they were divorced. Gacy's third victim was John Buckovich, the first of the victims that came from his own pool of workers. On July 31st, 1975, John Buckovich, who was only an 18-year-old, disappeared. Buckovich's car was found parked near the corner of Sheridan Lawrence with his jacket and wallet still sat inside and the keys still in the ignition. The day before his disappearance, Buckovich had confronted Gacy over two weeks

of outstanding back pay that he owed. Buckovich's father, a Yugoslav immigrant, called Gacy, who claimed he was happy to help search for his son that went missing, but was sorry that Buckovich had run away. When questioned by police, Gacy said Buckovich and two friends had arrived at his house demanding that overdue pay. But they had reached a compromise and all three had left. Over the following three years, Buckovich's parents called police more than a hundred times, urging them to investigate Gacy further.

Gacy later admitted to encountering Buckovich exiting his car at the corner of West Lawrence Avenue, waving to attract his attention. According to Gacy, Buckovich approached his car, stating, I want to talk to you. Gacy invited Buckovich into his car, then invited him back to his home, ostensibly to settle the issue of his overdue wages. At his home, Gacy offered Buckovich a drink and condom into allowing his wrist to be cuffed behind his back.

The way Gacy did this and would do it moving forward would to be to offer to show the future victim a trick with handcuffs, to try and convince them to try and get out of the handcuffs themselves after showing that he could do it himself. That was enough to get most people in the handcuffs. Gacy later confessed to, quote, having sat on the kid's chest for a while before he strangled him. He stowed Buckovich's body in his garage,

intending to bury the body later in the crawl space. But when his wife and stepdaughter's returned home earlier than expected, Gacy buried Buckovich's body under the concrete floor of the of the tool room extension of his garage in an empty space where he had initially intended to dig a drain tile because he couldn't move it. You mean like he couldn't move without being seen? The family came home too soon. Yeah, he was planning on moving it sooner,

but so it's the only one that in the house that was not under the crawl space and ended up being buried elsewhere. It was shortly after his third victim that his wife moved out finally with her daughters and not before she was able to get a hold of the key to the garage and get one peek inside. She expected something typical, like a place where he was working on his car or where his contracting equipment would be held. But what she found was concerning.

She saw multiple mattresses, all dirty, laying upon the concrete floor. Red lights were plugged in and hung about the garage. And multiple mirrors sat above all of the mattresses while a sweet, sickly odor hung in the air due to Buckovich's body being buried in the garage, not too far away from where she was. That was enough for her. And as she stepped away, she finally moved out. And after his ex-wife finally was gone,

Gacy essentially cast off all form of control. From here, he would go from three victims to 33 victims in a very short about two to three years, maybe as many as 45. If you decide to believe that he said he killed that many and his descent into a serial killer rampage begins. And that's what we'll pick up next week with the final episode of John Wayne Gacy, his crimes, his eventual arrest and his death in 1994. It sucks that you're like begins.

Yeah, it's because it's really like a suit. It's I know because he's already got three. He's already killed three very, very quickly, honestly. And from here, like just to give you an idea, he has nights that he calls his doubles nights where he goes out specifically looking for two. So we would kill two people in a night like he went from zero to 100 very quickly after this.

But that's it, gentlemen, for part two of John Wayne Gacy. Next episode will be the end of the series, and that'll be that'll be it. And we'll do something a lot less heavy, followed by a guest episode that is also going to be very heavy. Yeah, and then something else after that, which I haven't planned yet. And we'll figure it out. I got a couple of things cooking. Yeah, you've you've got like a thousand things.

I got a couple of things on the burner. People were like, are we getting a John Wayne Gacy episode this week? Are we getting a JFK episode? And people are like confused about it's all part of the mystery, friends. If you didn't understand what I said, that's OK. It's all the mystery. You know, it's the mysteries of time. That's how mysteries are created.

You know what I mean? I've I've you know, it's it's don't worry about it. It's going to be a great time. This year is going to be a fun year. We're going to go have a great time over at patreon.com slash Luminati pod, where we got to go record a mini soap for all y'all. So those who are over there, hopefully we'll see you there. And if you're not head on over, there's like 30 minisodes

that are exclusive to Patreon that you can listen to and binge up and catch up on. That's where we'll be. Thank you guys so much for listening. We'll see you next week. Good bye. Bye. Pace anyway, me and my wife were sitting outside indulging on our porch one night, enjoying ourselves.

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