Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 143 - John Wayne Gacy Part 3: Total Incompetence

Episode Date: March 8, 2022

The END of the John Wayne Gacy series is here! And with it, stories of stupidity, on all sides honestly. Patreon - http://www.patreon.com/chilluminatipod BUY OUR MERCH - http://www.theyetee.com/collections/chilluminati Special thanks to our sponsors this episode Stamps.com - http://www.stamps.com Promo Code: Chill ExpressVPN - http://www.expressvpn.com/chill HelloFresh - http://www.hellofresh.com/chill16 Promo Code: Chill16 Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - http://www.youtube.com/user/superbeardbros Art Commissioned by - http://www.mollyheadycarroll.com Theme - Matt Proft End song - POWER FAILURE - https://soundcloud.com/powerfailure Video - http://www.twitter.com/digitalmuppet

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As always, fit 43. 543. 533. 699420. Winners. What is a number? What is a number? According to one of those zero, zero, eight, five. Oh, oh, scandalous, Jesse.

Scandalous. As always, I'm one of your hosts, Mike Martin, joined by the Sonny and Sheriff L.A., Alex and Jesse. I knew you, man. I'm definitely shared, by the way. But I don't know why I chose post-Sonny share. I'm not sure why I felt that need to do that, but... In this tableau, am I even alive?

Yes, this is when you guys were still had a show together. So I'm the, like, young, the young, the young Sonny. I realize my share is more meatloaf, but whatever. It's all... All right, Peter, a great one. It's like Luciano Pavarotti is what it is. Andrea Bocelli. Do you believe?

Yeah. Jesse with Andrea Bocelli of L.A., somebody out there, some Italian person out there, is laughing their ass off to that one. Did you watch a lot of Sonny and Sheriff growing up? I'm not that... Who the hell are you talking to? None of us are in the 70s and 60s.

Here's what I'm talking about. Nick at night. Here's what I'm talking about. I listened to Sonny and Sheriff the whole time I was growing up, but I, the TV specials, not the show, like the actual TV show. Yeah, yeah, the show where they sing at the end of each other and they like smooch.

You know what, here's what it is. I think I actually am gonna say yes, but it was not a show that I was locked into, because I know that it was on too. I know you're right that it was on TV Land. I remember it. TV Land, yeah, yeah, yeah. The only show that matters

is Emaga Tarn, Mac Tarn. That's it. That's it. Emaga Tarn, Mac Tarn. That's it. That's it. Emaga Tarn, Mac Tarn. Check out her Twitter.

Hell, yes. Her Twitter's great. Yeah, I know that I did watch a hell of a lot of Sonny and Sheriff now that you mentioned it. That's fucking weird. That's like it. That should be a Chilluminati episode right there. Right?

Why can't we watch so much Sonny and Sheriff when we come up in the 90s? And eventually it will be because we're gonna run out of topics as long as you keep us weekly by heading to patreon.com slash chilluminati pod, where you not only get to listen to our delicious episodes without a single ad, except for this one,

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's finally time, boys, to end the trilogy that is the John Wayne Gacy trilogy. If I have to listen to this man's voice any longer, I'm gonna put myself in a crawl space and never come out. Can we actually really quickly shout out, and unless you're already gonna do it, that they found the book, we got the book,

the book, we've got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I wasn't gonna get to that for sure. But yeah, well, right now, yeah, I got a few copies sent off my way. The John Wayne Gacy written in his own words, basically, it's called A Question of Doubt. Imagine explaining that to somebody who doesn't know you. Oh, these two copies of this book written by John Wayne Gacy?

I just have those. That's for my job. Yeah, I would love a physical copy, but physical copies go for like over $3,000. It's insane. Yeah, but what I've read of the book, I've read like the first like 20 pages, it's awful. It's written, and I tweeted about it,

and I'm gonna say the same thing here. It's written like a high school student trying to meet the 2,000 word limit for their essay. It's filled with like filler language and flowery nonsense. And like, just like, for instance, though, he goes, this book was written with the intent to show that there is always more than one side to a story where that that story is detailed over a backyard fence

by a neighbor in the form that is referred to as gossip. Like, you could just... If only that the term fake news had already existed, he would have said it. He would have, oh, without a doubt, 100%. Yeah, that was just like, it's like you could have just said gossip, man. Like, you didn't have to explain what gossip is.

We know what the fuck gossip is, bro. But he's too, his ego is insane anyway, and we're gonna get to that for sure in this episode. And a shout out too to, I ended up watching the past couple of days, the Peacock documentary on John Wayne Gacy as well. It's called John Wayne Gacy, Devil in Disguise. Peacock?

Oh, right. It's the NBC streaming service. Oh, okay, all right. Yeah, yeah, it's all right. Yeah, sure. I'm with you now. Of course. It's like a six episode thing.

It's really, really great. They do a phenomenal job at really kind of putting a focus on the victims and their families and how that all affected them. It was a really good watch. So if you're interested in like learning more because I can't cover everything, it's another great source for you to go watch.

That being said, let's do this. Last episode, gentlemen, we examined the kind of person that John Wayne Gacy actually was after his initial arrest for the crime of sodomy and a sentence of 10 years, which Gacy only ended up serving less than two years of. Thanks to his manipulative behavior

and dare I say, lackluster justice system. Slash chicken buckets. Slash, yeah, slash KFC herbs and spices. The colonel became the barn boss. I cannot believe this all started with a man who bought the government with chicken. The colonel became the barn boss, became the biatch. I can't figure out why he didn't immediately go.

Like if I knew the chicken method worked, I would always return to it always. He didn't go back to it after. He decided to be construction guy instead. KFC would have been so much more useful. He would have gotten away with it forever. What a piece of shit. Yeah.

And after being set free, it would be less than two years before he would commit his first murder leading to the eventual deaths of three young innocent boys and men within a short time of one another. His wife, Carol, would openly complain of the sickly smell of death

always lingering within their house, having open arguments with Gacy, telling him he needed to hire someone to go under the house and take care of whatever died down there. Gacy would in turn insist nothing died that it was probably just a sewer problem. And as the relationship slowly deteriorated over those few years together,

which if you want the details of that relationship, go listen to last episode, Carol eventually divorced Gacy and then moved out with her to her and his children. He has two daughters that are by him out there. By him? Yeah, yeah. Is that like blood related?

Daughters by Gacy. Daughters by Gacy. And with his wife and kids gone in the home to himself, it's as though he threw off whatever imaginary shackles he still had on and went from murdering three boys over three years to murdering 30 more over four years. God fucking dammit, dude.

He basically went into what's like a berserker mode. His body count was allowed to get so high due to a number of circumstances, partly because of his outgoing and social personality involving himself in politics and charities and a hobby as Pogo the Clown for children's parties, but in large part because of the repeated failure of the Chicago police to investigate numerous reports

of sexual abuse, assault, and kidnapping, simply because the victims always ended up as homosexual men. And that was not on their list of priorities. In today's episode, I'm not gonna go over every single murder Gacy committed, but instead I just wanna go over two separate incidents. The first one we're gonna go over is Gacy's final murder,

the one that got him caught in the end. And then another assault that happened prior where the victim not only got away, but was able to go to the police, identify Gacy, and the cops did nothing about it. The reason I wanna do this, do it this way, is to showcase how utterly insane it is that Gacy got away with this for so long.

Most serial killers by the time they get caught do so because they get sloppy, some even taunting the police directly. But that's not true of Gacy. Gacy's last murder is nearly identical to every murder prior. The only reason he got caught is because the 33rd murder just happened to fall into the right cops' hands

with the right witnesses who gave enough of a shit to follow up on the family's requests. The 33rd murder, 33rd, the 33rder. And within a span of four or five years, it's fucking insane. He was having like mere weeks between murders and he would go out and do something called his doubles night where he would go and kill two people in one night

and put them in the same grave. That's fucking crazy that he was like, it's so crazy that he was like, so prolific that he had like special nights versus regular nights. And he was just never, you know, he was getting away with it every time. This episode is brought to you by

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at anyhourservices.com. No one helps more homeowners than Any Hour Services. But then after this particular case fell in their cops lap, things quickly came apart for Gacy thereafter because prior to what the cops may have wanted you to believe during the time, Gacy was not very smart about how he handled the bodies. He was just ignored over and over again.

Gacy's thankfully final victim after over 30 kills in four years was a 15 year old boy named Robert Peast. Robert on the evening of December 11th, 1978 was finishing up his shift at Nissan Pharmacy as a stock boy. Earlier that day, John Gacy had come into the store offering the owner to fix up some of his shelves and do a little construction work for him.

This had been an ongoing conversation for a couple of days prior to this between Gacy and the owner and on this day, it seemed like Gacy got the go ahead. He had begun measuring out shelves in the store before he got talking with Robert who was stocking the shelves nearby while he was working. The two seemed to have a friendly enough conversation before Gacy told the kid

that he was hiring freelance helpers for his construction gig and would be willing to pay him more than he made here. But the conversation never went much further before Gacy had to leave the store content with the measurements that he'd taken. Later that night at 8.58 PM, Robert's mother pulled up to the store as she always did to pick up her son.

At home, they had a cake ready to celebrate Robert's sister's birthday, Elizabeth. Rob came running out of the store, leaned into the car and told his mom to hold on that a man wanted to talk to him about a contracting job that might pay him more. Just minutes before his mother pulled up at the back of the store, Gacy had arrived

in his 1979 Old Mobile Delta 88. You wanna know the kind of car he was driving. He had forgotten, quote unquote, his book earlier on the counter and came back for it just before the store closed up. As he was walking out back to his car, he brought up the job to Robert again and said he'd love to get an application for him.

That's when Robert ran outside to let his mom know. When he got back, Gacy was a little baffled, Gacy looked a little baffled that he didn't have any applications on hand, but if Rob just came with him real quickly to his house, he could fill it out real quick and get the job started sooner rather than later and he'd bring him back home.

When Rob said he'd wanted to, but his mom was, yeah, I know, it's nuts. And again, this is like the 70s thing of just like, kids just going with strangers. So trusting, yeah. Yeah, way too trusting. I mean, like the bargaining phase. Like I do, I wanna like figure out a way

to like not make it happen. Yeah, like get in there, be like, Rob, please God, don't, don't, don't, he's gonna kill you. When Rob said he'd wanted to, but his mom was waiting out front, Gacy simply said, don't worry, he only lived to block up and it wouldn't take long. Robert agreed and willingly went with Gacy to his house.

This might speak a little bit to Gacy's ego at this point because he's well aware that his mom was waiting for him outside and yet without even thinking about it, he still decided to take this kid as his next victim. Where most are all of the victims prior were people who were traveling, hitchhikers, somebody without any witnesses around. After they arrived at his house and going inside,

Gacy fiddled about with papers for a bit before moving the conversation over to pictures of him as a clown, as was his MO by this point. He would talk about how fun it was and how much he loved entertaining kids, which inevitably led him to talking about his favorite trick, the handcuff trick. Gacy would ask if he would want, if he wanted to see it.

And so Gacy would handcuff his own hands behind his back to show it off. After a bit of fussing around with the cuffs, the cuffs would come loose, all off his hands, and Gacy's hands would be free. He then asked if the boy, in this case, Robert, wanted to try it, that he bet he wouldn't be able to do it, but was welcome to give it a go.

That's when Gacy, after the person agreed, would hand the cuffs over to the victim and the victim would handcuff themselves behind their back. I fucking hate that detail. I can't handle the fact of this like, hey, come on, come on over. We gotta go get an application for you. It'll just take a minute.

Come on over. Hey, you wanna see my handcuff trick? I would've been like- Literally. Bro, I just, let's send this application and go. Like, my mom, I got a whole thing. Like, it's crazy. Me like, all right, show me your handcuff trick.

All right, mister. Like, yeah, I would be like, no, I wanna go. What? No, I got something to do, bro. I do not want to put those on me. Robert would then begin to struggle, obviously to no avail, before giving up and asking how it was done.

That's when Gacy would always put his hand into his pocket, slide out a key and say, the trick is, you gotta have the key. That's when Gacy would switch to his true colors and the torture and abuse would begin. Yeah. Dragged to the garage, illuminated in red lights, dirty beds, chains and more,

he would be raped, beaten in and out of consciousness for hours before unveiling his final trick to Robert, the rope trick. When he was done with his victim, he would take a piece of rope, tie a knot on both ends and slip it around the victim's neck, then taking a stick between eight and 10 inches long, slipping it between it between the rope and the collarbone,

and then he would twist like a tourniquet, slowly over the victim's neck as they suffocated to death, usually needing to twist it two to three times. After the deed was done, the body was usually moved into the crawl space within 24 hours. On this particular night, Gacy curled up with the body, he says,

and slept with Robert's body through the night. God damn, dude. In the morning, usually in the morning, he would bury the body in the crawl space with a shallow grave pre-dug, covered in hundreds of pounds of lime to try and cover the odor. But with Robert, the crawl space wasn't an option,

much like it wasn't with the prior three kills before him. The crawl space was now full. So Gacy tossed the body into the trunk of his car and drove him down to a bridge over to Plain River, where he would dispose of the body and let the river do the rest as he had three times before. It had worked all those times, why not a fourth? But it's here I want to take a bit

to talk about the crawl space. As I've talked about in other episodes, Gacy did indeed hire teenage boys to work with him for his contractor business. He would sleep with most of them and others would become victims, but there are two names that are constants who didn't become victims, well, fully,

and may have been accomplices to the murders. These two men were Michael Rossi and David Cram. Both of these boys worked and lived with Gacy, though at two separate times, and both definitely did help with the digging of the graves under the crawl space. Really? Gacy, yeah.

I didn't know this bit. Yeah. Gacy would tell them it was for plumbing when he was hiring them and paying them to do it. The reason he hired them is because Gacy did indeed have a bad back and had heart problems. Did it smell like shit? Yeah, well, that's what we're gonna get to kind of here.

It's like what they knew and maybe what they didn't know. But on top of that, the crawl space was just under three feet and Gacy was a big dude, and the crawl space was too tight for him to go under comfortably and it would take time for him to get through it. And you can see, if you just be wary if you go Googling, but you can see crawl space photos,

just how small that place was when the cops were under there. These young guys were leaner, younger, and able to get the work done, which then begs the question, if Gacy had a hard time getting into the crawl space in the first place, how the hell did he manage to move all 33 bodies down there?

As one of the victim's sister puts it in the documentary, quote, if he could have done it himself, why involve anyone else at all? And it is an interesting point. Now, I have no doubt that Gacy did put some or maybe even most of the bodies into the crawl space himself, but there is an argument to be made

that one or both of the boys ended up helping him and they had, or at least had some idea, if not direct involvement in the killings themselves. There's one account where after being chloroformed in the back of Gacy's car, the victim awoke in a haze in the house of Gacy's and claims to have seen two people in a blur. And one of them had lighter brown hair

and was notably thinner than Gacy, before Gacy walked back over and shoved the rag back into his face only to wake again when he was being beaten and tortured. But other than a hazy memory from one source, there's also a little bit of tangential evidence as well, particularly the things the boys received as gifts from Gacy.

But one that stuck out the most was the car of one of the victims, a white Plymouth, ended up in the possession of Michael Rossi, the one that lived with him second and the one that lived within the longest, who is currently Gacy's live-in employee, which leads to a small example of the police's infuriating fumble.

When the car was found and recognized by the cops, they approached and questioned Gacy. He simply told them the victim by the name of John Sizzik, I believe that's how you say it, had sold the car to him because he needed cash to leave town. He then sold the car to Rossi, which is why Michael Rossi had the car.

The cops literally took Gacy at his word and told the family that their son had just run off, that he was 19, not a kid anymore, and probably just wanted to get away, which is nuts that that is what happened to that kid. I mean, you know, with the cops like that. There was no follow-up and they just like, yeah, no, the most obvious suspect

we're going to just move on from. What about the slips of like ownership? Like, no, no, it was just like a tall off and they left. And that happened many, many times. In fact, we won't get into all of them, but the minute he started murdering like his spree of 30 kills, he would be, have run in with the cops six times

and get off every single time. Was he just like, yeah, no, he said he was leaving town. And they were like, oh, well, the last five checkouts. So this one month, like that's crazy. He would get arrested, not just for like the interview for like a couple of missing people, but at the same time, he would also get arrested

for attempted assault and rape of people. Like people would go and report him. And then when he got arrested by the cops, he would tell the cops that they were paid, they were prostitutes, they're lying, this, that and the other. And because they were gay men, they just would let him go every time.

It's crazy, crazy. I did not know that it was that often. Yeah, he got, he got run in with the cops all the time, but he's also pretty buddy buddy with the cops as well. He's well known around town, involved in politics and within charities and community stuff. And he was very ingratiated into the city and the society. How do you justify a car like that too anyway?

Cause he's not telling the guy that he gave it to, the guy sold it to him, right? Yeah, no, no. He told the cop that the kid sold it to him cause the kid needed the cash to leave town, which also makes no sense. Cause he has a car. Why wouldn't he just drive and leave town?

What did he tell the guy gave it to as a gift? Oh yeah, yeah. He didn't sell it to him, but he told the cops he sold it to him. Yeah, that's what I mean. I'm just saying like, how do you, how does that person not know about, how does that person not think about like,

yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah. That's where I'm saying like the tangential evidence is this kid had, he had a car. And both of the boys who lived and worked with Gacy would go on when the trial started to become state witnesses against Gacy during the trial, just so you know where they kind of end up.

Gacy would say of them after he was arrested about them digging the graves, quote, if they didn't know what they were doing, then they were idiots. So he implies that they knew, but he never outright says it. Back to the murder of Robert Peace though. His mother waited at the store for about 10 minutes

before telling, before asking one of the coworkers named Nicole, if he was still inside talking to the contractor. She responded, no, she had seen him go outside to talk to the contract worker that had visited earlier today about a job. She had assumed that he'd gone off with him for those reasons.

So his mother told Nicole to have him call her at home when he got back to the store so she could come back and pick him up and she drove home. Robert never came back. But unlike Gacy's other victims, Rob had eyewitnesses of who spoke with him last and that would be the gentle nudge the cops needed to finally get them to do their job.

It wouldn't be long before they were at Gacy's door one evening looking to ask questions. While he refused to answer the front door, he did make them come around to the side door after ignoring their knocks for a while. And this is where we see the insane confidence Gacy had after getting away with everything for so long. Without missing a beat,

when he opened the door for the police, he invited them in asking what he could do for them. They confirmed that Gacy did indeed see the boy and asked him to come down to the police department to fill out a witness statement form for them. But Gacy came up with a lie about needing to prepare for a funeral for his uncle and had to call his aunt first to let her know.

Eventually the next day, Gacy would go into the station voluntarily four hours later than he was asked to with his boots covered in mud and his car covered in mud. It's like they could not be more suspicious, right? Yeah, it's insane. Gacy would remain at the station for 10 hours answering questions while the cops waited

on a search warrant for Gacy's house. Eventually the warrant would come through and Gacy was forced to hand over his keys while three police officers headed to Gacy's house with unrestricted access for the very first time. They combed through his house room by room, not finding much out of the ordinary. But the thing that stuck out to them was a pile of porn

with a copy of 21 Craziest Sex Crimes magazine mixed into the porn pile. The police officers noted the stink in the air but were reassured that it was a- Was this a fucking video game? Like what the fuck is this? I know, it's so dumb. The police officers noted that there was a stink in the air

but were reassured by the kid who lived there that it was a sewage leak underneath the house. Eventually, one officer found the entry to the crawl space and shouted out to the other cops. He dropped down, flashlight in hand and looked around. Unfortunately, the corpses were not sat on top of the ground. They were all buried about a foot underneath the dirt and the police would walk away

from their first search completely empty-handed. God damn it, dude. After this, Gacy would lawyer up very quickly in the station but with the search ending empty-handed, they had no choice but to let Gacy go. Perhaps now bolstered even more having escaped the police's grasp once again, his ego and confidence soared to a new height.

But the cops were not through watching Gacy while also finally digging into Gacy's past. Now, all the times he had been arrested before, none of the police decided to look up prior crimes on Gacy. They didn't look up what he had been arrested before, any of that stuff. They just kind of let him go.

Isn't that just standard procedure? Yeah, there's so much lax police work here. It's upsetting that it's truly awful and lazy. Yeah, it is. And I think even more than lazy, I think the big takeaway for me just in general is just how shitty it was to be gay. Yeah.

Oh, man. They just don't give a fuck because they're gay. They just literally don't give a fuck. It's not when we get to, when the guy tried to report it and what he was told over the phone. It's, it's, it's God, it's infuriating. So they finally, but now with an actual like hint

of suspicion on Gacy, they finally decided to dive into his past and see if he has a criminal history. And of course, what did they discover? The sodomy charge, along with multiple reports of assault and kidnapping. Wait, this guy did blood sex? That is unforgivable.

That's the most unforgivable crime of 1978. I can't believe this. Blood sex. Oh, gross. And after this, after they saw all the reports of the assault, the kidnappings, the sodomy charge, they were convinced that Gacy was their guy. They just had to pin him for something.

They had to find evidence. And so Gacy was put under extremely heavy surveillance. For nearly every hour of every day, for the following 10 or so days, Gacy was under heavy police watch with some officers barely getting eight hours between shifts to themselves. But it's here that we see why I said

Gacy was at peak confidence. He was well aware he was being watched, actively going outside, walking up to the police car, having conversations, friendly conversations with the cops. Conversations range from talking about their day, his day, whether- Why are they talking about this shit? Because he's like, what else are they gonna do?

He's walking up to their car. What are they, what are they, like, what do you do? Tell them to go? We're watching you. What are you doing here? Like, why, you know, I don't know, it's weird. Yeah, no, like, but he understood

he was under suspicion for the missing boy, Robert Pease. And that's why he thinks, and he's just waiting for them to not find anything and go away. He would also suggest to them good places to eat, even joking that their constant presence was hurting his business and how he wished he would just go away. Occasionally though, he would likely complain

that they weren't needed and that they were just harassing him for no reason, that he was a good citizen and had done much for the town. And that complaint would grow as time went on and the surveillance didn't cease. On one occasion, he invited them into his house and one of the officers went to use the bathroom. When he flushed, first of all, can you believe,

like, he fucking invited the officers that were watching him into the house? Like, come on in, boys, you wanna come in? The ego is crazy. It's maniacal. I just don't understand what these cops are thinking. Right, it's nuts. It's Smith's.

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he recalls smelling a scent that could only be of something rotting, one he knew well and knew they needed another search warrant to go where the sewage leaks were and look again. Famously, he even took them out. John Wayne Gacy, toward near the end of his surveillance,

took the cops who were watching him out to breakfast. Like he, they caught, I got in the cop car and he, they went off to a restaurant he suggested. Why the fuck would the cops be like, I would love to go to breakfast. Well, Gacy believes in this moment, he's making friends with these people.

He's trying to make friends, trying to work his weasel his way in so that they won't ever suspect him. And if they ever say anything, they might just let him go. Meanwhile, the cops are convinced this is their guy and they're just kind of playing along, I think to keep him calm and try to not.

They're just waiting to see what the fuck he's going to do basically. Yeah, they're following him everywhere too. Not just like out inside his home, they're following where he drives. He's being watched almost Tommy Patera style back towards Tommy Patera's like end of his killing career. Famously, like I said,

he took him out to breakfast and it's here. He made a very infamous joke and quote, the joke went, quote, you know, clowns can't get clowns can get away with murder. And he said that right to the police, knowing the cops know he's a clown, he's Pogo the clown and just like openly kind of like soft confesses right then and there.

So these guys are like sitting here just like slapping each other's legs under the table. Like, look at this shit. He's fucking telling us more or less. Like they bring that up. Like it was just like he was taunting them in his own way. He was like the maniacal ego in his own way of just telling them that he committed murder.

Right. But the pressure was starting to get to Gacy. He had a defense attorney at this point and this was defense attorney. This was his first private defense attorney job. He was a public defender prior to this and John Wayne Gacy ended up being his first one. And this comes from the book that he wrote,

which is very, very biased on in like the in the in the form of like leaning toward just trying to get Gacy labeled as insane when he really wasn't. But the story goes that toward the end of his surveillance, Gacy would go to the hotel where his defense attorney was simply because while he was in the office with with the defense attorney due to attorney client privilege, the cops couldn't follow him in there.

And so he had a time in privacy. While he was in there, he was visibly very drunk and supposedly just openly admitted to everything to his defense attorney, going over all of the kills where the bodies were and didn't know what to do. He would eventually fall asleep in the chair in a drunken stupor and would at some point in the middle of his sleep,

stand up and stick his arms out like Frankenstein and sleepwalk around the office before sitting back down in the chair and going back to sleep apparently. Like no bullshit or like no bullshit. Like he may have been he may have been putting on an act. Right. That's OK. That's what I mean. Yeah, like the defense attorney says

that he was convinced he was actually sleepwalking, but I don't necessarily believe that because I don't think you get up and Frankenstein arm out and walk around. Right. That's not how sleepwalking looks. That's how it like on TV, maybe it was portrayed. But yeah, it's nuts. Now, whether or not like that story is true,

that now that comes from his defense attorney, but the defense attorney never went out and told the cops or any of this. He kept it to himself and he started working on ways that could maybe when the trial inevitably came, working on an insane plea. We'll get to what his defense ended up being after he gets caught.

Eventually, though, the pressure of being under constant watch was getting to him, whether because it was disallowing him to commit another murder, felt the pressure of being discovered or maybe a bit of the both. The friendly conversations with the cops became more aggressive and his driving became more erratic, actually losing the cops for hours at a time sometimes. And the police were starting to get worried

when they lost him hours at a time one time. They actually found him at the graveyard talking to his father's gravestone for hours. They were getting concerned that Gacy was showing signs that he might attempt suicide. And while new information was coming up as they were found and interviewed living victims, people who had been abused by Gacy as they were finally starting

to connect the dots as to what was going on, they still had no search warrant for the house and no open reason to put him behind bars yet. Once they were convinced of Gacy's potential suicide, though, they needed any reason to get him in cuffs and arrest him. And lucky, luckily, when they learned a friend of Gacy's had been given marijuana by him, they finally had a reason and moved into arrest John Wayne.

Marijuana was the reason. Oh, my God. Marijuana and sodomy. The devil's tools. Yes, yes. It was a charge of marijuana possession that ended up getting John Wayne Gacy finally arrested at his home. That's like taxes taking down Capone. That sucks. That sucks. It sucks.

Make sure of taxes in syphilis. Well, yeah, fair enough. Meanwhile, though, the search warrant had been requested, but not yet given the whole ride from when Gacy got arrested down to the off the police station, Gacy attempted to persuade the officers to let him know what was going on, acting confused the whole time. He would say to them that we've become friends over these last few days that you can tell me anything. I didn't do it.

I'm innocent. Just tell me what's going on. I would be so hard for me not to just smack this guy in the face. I imagine that there was a high degree of wanting to turn around and punch this man from many, many, many different people. When he arrived, he was informed of the drug charge and placed in a room while they awaited the search warrant, which had finally been granted. Gacy's home would shortly thereafter be swarmed with police vehicles and unmarked vehicles as the initial search began.

One officer, Officer Gentie, donned coveralls and boots as the crawl space was where he wanted to check the most. Gentie had a little run in with Gacy a couple of years back when a girl went missing and wasn't terribly surprised when he wound up here in search of a missing kid. He had nothing to do with the missing girl, but people had kind of pointed in Gacy's direction. And so he had a couple of questions for him.

That was a couple of years prior to this. It didn't take Gentie Long to see some bizarre depressions in the raw dirt. Unlike before, the dirt itself was now soaked with water, with shallow pools of water having settled into the graves. As he pushed forward just a couple steps, he caught sight of what looked like a hair sticking out of the dirt. With his hands, he dug through the wet muddy soil and very quickly came upon a bone.

He whipped around, looked up at the officers and shouted, Charge him, they'd finally found the bodies. I can imagine that moment for him was like exhilarating, being able to shout up in a movie way, just like, charge him. We got him, we got him. After all this bullshit, I would be ready to like, I, you know, like when Batman punches the guy a few too many times. Speaking of Batman, it does have kind of like the,

I don't know, last I'm trying to go the time frame, but towards the end of the film, what a certain character is, is arrested. And that's the look in his face. I imagine this exact same thing. It's like he's really thrilled about the whole thing. Yeah, it's nuts. And the reason that the whole crawl space had been soaked

is that between the time that he was let out and he was finally arrested, he completely filled his crawl space with like the sewage. He had turned off like the sewage and then flooded it and then ended up draining it, thinking that that might wipe away. I don't know what his thought process that was. Maybe if he made it muddy, they wouldn't go down there or something. But that's what he did.

And there's not a huge reason rather than maybe he was trying to wipe away evidence. Shortly after Gacy had been delivered to the security room, an officer busted in and shouted at Gacy, calling him a jag off and saying he was under arrest for murder, that they found the bodies. Gacy had no emotional response. After he was done being berated, he simply asked, have you found the crawl space?

The officer nodded and Gacy replied, that's what the line is for, to cover the sewer dampness and what you found down there. When asked how many bodies were in the crawl space, he said, I'm not sure. They asked if Robert Peast was there and Gacy had denied it, saying he wasn't. He had simply run out of room. After a little more questioning, Gacy said, I want to clear the air. I know the game is over.

The line was used to cover the smell. The bodies have been down there a long time and there are more more bodies off the property. Over the next many, many days, the cops would exhume about two to three bodies a day. So it took them about a little over a week to exhume it. And as they were doing it, the press was it is like swarmed. Once the story broke, they were like watching in front of the house out of there.

Not only. Yes. Oh, it's all recorded. You can watch it like the newsreels and stuff. But not only that, thanks. Not only that, hundreds of people would show up every single day in the winter time. And this is late November to just watch as they did it every day. They said the police officer said they would go four or five heads deep sometimes, estimating a couple hundred people every day. Just sitting in the cold fucking.

Wiring pepper spray into the crowd. Yeah. Yeah. No. This is I mean, this is like think about it, though. Like every every big case, it's always just like a swarm. People are always interested. They want to know even when we talked about our black widows from the 1800s. Remember how there were hundreds of people outside the court waiting to see what happened because this normal lady killed a bunch of babies?

I just don't like it because I don't want him to have the attention that he's craving and obviously getting it. It just makes me. It makes me frustrated that they're there. I know this happened 50 years ago, but I'm still mad about it. John. Yeah, no, fair. Because he into a degree, he was definitely loving this attention. Over the next few days, through the interviews with Gacy,

he would confess three separate times with loads of officers all listening. But when he was confessing, he wanted no recording, no signed papers, no evidence that he actually confessed. And so because that was his or like that, that's something that he said he wouldn't do. All they have is the oral confession. And Gacy later on in his life would say he never confessed to anything that they're simply putting in behind prison for something he didn't do, which will obviously is not true.

He becomes infuriating to deal with that once he's been caught and taunting the police, saying things like, I'm never going to spend a day in prison for this. You'll never convict me. Why would somebody who didn't do it say something like that? Because because he would again, he would say it when the only people around were him and the person and like he just was he was so full of himself, so deluded, so maniacally convinced that he could get away with anything

that he just was open like half open about it. Just being a total shit boy. Yeah. Yeah. But before we move on to see what happens with the trial, which is toward the end, I wanted to rewind a little bit and talk about the failure of the police and the story that ended up making me, I think, the most upset about how the police treated everybody. There was a victim about nine months prior to the murder of Robert Peist. The victim was abducted after he was standing outside in the city.

I think he was walking home. John Wayne, Gacy pulled up and offered him to smoke a joint with him. He shrugged and said, all right, and walked into Gacy's car willingly into the back seat. Gacy pulled over, lit a joint and did begin smoking with him as he was handing the joint back to Gacy, Gacy grabbed a cloth and shoved it into his face, a chloroform to knock him out again. Another one of his favorite ways to kidnap somebody.

Next time he came to, he would wake up on Gacy's floor as Gacy was in the kitchen mixing a drink as when Gacy noticed that he was stirring, he would shove chloroform back in his face again. Cut. Then the next time he woke up, his arms were chained to a two by four as he was being held up in the garage and Gacy was beating him violently and screaming at him. He doesn't remember much beyond that before Gacy would take him down, put on his pants, put the pants on his victim,

put him in the car and drive him to where he picked him off, picked him up and dumped him outside, leaving him in the street and going back home. I don't know this happened with some of Gacy's victims through his through his kind of career of killing is he would have these people that he would pick up do everything he would do to anybody else that he killed. But let these people go after he's just like a weird fickle. Like remember that guy that called into Howard Stern? No, that was like, is this real?

Is this not? Oh, yes. The guy that was like a serial killer. Yeah, he was talking about how like. Sometimes something happened like it'll remind him of someone or he'll feel guilty about something. They'll say something or he'll find out a piece of information that stops him from doing it like I could see him because, you know, the other things that you were saying like the other times

when he would like get into like a tense situation or he'd almost like that time when he almost hit that dude in the head or whatever from behind. It's like he eventually he gets to a point where he's like a little high, gets blown and he's like, fuck it. Yeah, there's another story of another victim. A high school junior at the time, a 17 year old, he was picked up by Gacy as they all were, brought back for whatever a good time was and did the handcuff trick with him.

However, the hand he's trick, what a piece of shit. However, though, this kid struggled immediately. And after he got the handcuffs on, he went off to get something from the kitchen and the kid realized that the handcuff on his right hand was looser than the other one because he was struggling and he was able to slip his hand out. However, as he slipped his hand out, he waited for Gacy to return. And as soon as Gacy returned, he hit him with a double leg takedown.

Damn, his knee into his neck, held his legs up and then handcuffed Gacy instead. He then got up and waited for Gacy to calm down. Eventually, Gacy would reply, you know, you're the only one who's ever been able to fight back and get the cuffs on me. Afterward. Yeah. Yeah, I know. It's fucking creepy. It's weird. Gacy would eventually calm down. The kid would take the handcuffs off and he would trust Gacy enough

to drive him back, which he did. Why? I've seen pictures. Man, I don't care who you are. No one's that trustworthy. I just don't get it. And in the in an interview with this guy, he said in hindsight, the smarter thing to do would have been run. This hard. Yeah, dude.

He should have just kept his knee on the man's throat and ended. Yes. Yeah. Oh, my God. Done with it. It's not like I don't maybe it was something that was in the water. Like, I don't understand why they were just like, all right, Gacy, I'll trust you enough to take me home. G golly, after you tried to fucking kill me, it's insane. It's Jeep four by four season.

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Call Any Hour Services and schedule a free estimate today. Google Any Hour Services or schedule online at Any Hour Services dot com. No one helps more homeowners than Any Hour Services. However, the story I want to talk about after the one was chloroform when he woke up and he was dumped on the side road. He had a vivid memory of the car and a vague memory of what Gacy looked like, but not enough. He went right to the police that night and reported it. But because he couldn't remember much, there wasn't much of a report.

It was very light on details. When he went home to his boyfriend, he told the whole situation. And for the next three to four weeks, any time they had free time, they would go into their car, go out looking for Gacy and his car. Because if it could happen to him, he was convinced that he might kill somebody else out there. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, I like in the moment, I would have been like, I'm ending you. Like, I guess. Yeah.

This isn't the wrestler, though. This is the other guy who was chloroform. The wrestler just like was like went back to his normal life after that. How? How do you go back? I don't know. How do you go back? I have no idea. I have no idea. This guy did not. He's so infuriated. I always forget how angry I get during these fucking episodes

because the shit these people get away with is insane. It's insane. I mean, hindsight, of course, right? It's 20, 20. You like. Yeah. The truth is, most people don't want to believe that like this person that they're with is like a fucking murderer. Yeah, but it still just sucks. I mean, when they show you who they are, like some of these people got away. Like, you know, every like, well, he did.

He was going to hit me with like a crowbar there. So, you know what? He was going through a thing like, no, I'd be like, dude, hello, police. This man's a crazy person. I just blows my mind, blows my mind. This victims and their and his boyfriends nightly excursion actually eventually paid off. They saw Gacy driving his car and then followed him

all the way back to his house, getting a good look at the car, the person, the license plate, the house and went to the cops with this information. The police took down the information, but let him know he was already out on a $10,000 bail for having been reported for assault by another team. Come on. When he tried to push the issue and let them know like, no, this is what he did to me, tortured, beat me, all these other things.

The response from the person on the phone was it's not that big a deal. It's just another but fucker anyway. Are you kidding me? Nope. Yeah, that was the that was the stations were supplied in. That seemed to be the thing that we picked up on last time that because they were all young gay men that no one really seemed to care.

You are correct. It's that that that story in that line stuck with me. I was like, are you fucking kidding me? This is like the whole that's what this whole story is about. I never knew that. I never really like if this was a new story that I heard about today. If I was like writing a report on this, this would completely be framed around just what it was like to be gay at this time.

Right. Yeah. This is insanity. It's it's so it's so awful. Eventually, though, after he's been in prison for a good long while, the trial would come and go in 1980. And after a long trial, the jury only deliberated for two hours before they came back, having him telling him he's guilty of all three thirty three murders, as well as a varying list of other crimes and assaults.

Yeah. And the penalty would be death. That's when Gacy's story began changing often. Oh, you're going to kill me. Yeah. Prior to the trial, however, he did make an attempt at an insanity plea. After a long conversation with his lawyer prior to an interrogation, Gacy would show up, sit there and draw them an entire map of the crawl space indicating where the bodies were,

how many were there and who most of them were. Then after he was done drawing it, he would blink repeatedly, look down in confusion at the drawing and say, oh, Jack must have drew this. The cops were like, who's Jack, bro? Jack. Yeah. Gacy was attempting to inject a second personality, one that he blamed on the murder. Personality by the name of Jack Hanley.

Shut up, Jack Hanley. Get out of here, John Wayne, Gacy, Junior, a.k.a. Jack Hanley. He would then go on to stick with that story. Even after being arrested and convicted, that his personality was split. It was this Jack Hanley one that did all the killings. But his story changed multiple times and weirdly every time. First, the story changed that he only remembered the first five murders

and that the ones after that were being done by other people or the split personality. His first defense was that there were people who knew that the first five people he killed were sitting under the crawl space. So with that knowledge, they killed their own people and would bring the bodies to his crawl space to put them in there. No, no, no. Yeah, this guy, this dude. That's his actual excuse.

That's so fucking stupid. And what happened? Well, what about those five victims? Why'd you kill them? They all deserved it. They were all drug users or terrible people or assaulted him first. And it was all self defense. And why did he not bring it to the cops? Then because he said he simply didn't want to get involved

and it would be easier for him to put the bodies in the crawl space and forget about just a little murder, you know, cleaning up the streets. You get it, judge. That's what he's hoping for, though. Like that's exactly what he's hoping for. Then his story would change a few years later again. He only remembered the first murder and that murder was purely self defense

because the kid was coming at him with a knife and he only stabbed him in defense because it was his only other option. All the other murders were done by other people who he who knew about that first murder and much like his other story, we're just using that as an excuse to use his body. And he said, I guess the only crime I'm committing is holding an unofficial graveyard. And that's what that like just said that to the point. I guess.

Yeah, like in this nonchalant way, because he genuinely, genuinely didn't care. Days were spent digging out the bodies and after they were all said and done, it would be a long while, even years yet before most of them were identified. And to this day, five of them are still unidentified. And an officer says after the trial and Gacy had been convicted on a car ride transporting Gacy, he looked back to Gacy and said, all right, John, be honest, how many did you kill?

And Gacy shrugged somewhere in the 30s, maybe. And the officer said, really, you don't know. Gacy simply said, 45 sounds like a good number. And when he asked where the bodies were, he said, that's your job, not mine. And that's all we know about if you've killed anyone else throughout the time. At the end in 1994, John Wayne Gacy was put to death by lethal injection. His final words were kiss my ass. Shut the fuck up, John Wayne Gacy.

Yeah, that's how I feel. But like, shut the fuck up, dude, really, like shut up. Gacy's lawyer, Amarante, as much of an asshole as he was and kind of a selfish dude, he was kind of given the shit job at the same time. But still, to his credit, after all of this was done, Amarante was the one that went out and created the Amber Alert system. So at the very least, the Amber Alert came out of this whole trial. That's fascinating.

So this is this. This is how Amber Alerts, you know, why? Because didn't they used to have a like a time limit? So like 72 hours, you had to wait 72 hours. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's why the Lambert, the Lambert, the Lambert, the Amber Alerts were created so that you could report a kid missing immediately and get the word out so you'd have to wait three days.

Crazy. Yeah. The amount of time that they made him wait was just bananas. And the fact that every single time the excuse, the kid just left town because the kids are on their way all the time was just accepted. It's like a cartoon excuse. Yeah. Dennis, the menace excuse. I can't go through all of them, but it's important to know a lot of these families literally hounded police for like years at a time.

Yeah, I believe that happened. Yeah, one of the victim's mothers actually discovered herself. The links to John Wayne Gacy brought them to the police. And the police just told her it's not a big deal. He probably just left town not to like look into it. Dude, I would throw a fucking ninja star through that dude's throat, man. I don't understand. That woman was very clearly in like her mid to late 70s

and she was hustling around doing the work. She told her daughter a lot of a lot of people will stay home and pray. I'm going to find the fucker who killed my son. Oh, my God. Like it's not good. Yeah, it's not. Um, but gentlemen, this is where we bring the story of John Wayne Gacy to a close. I hope we did our due diligence and really dug into who he was as a person,

his history, his whiny, bitchy personality and the annoying, manipulative, little liar that he was at the end of the day because of shit. For all like as sloppy as he was, he did wrap people around his figure, his finger with his bizarre charisma. But in the end, he got his due cause and was able to be put down in 1994. And that's it for John Wayne Gacy, boys, the end of the story. I got one last treat for you about John Wayne Gacy. Sure. Do you know what his last meal was?

What was his last meal? It was a dozen fried shrimp, French fries, fresh strawberries, diet coke and a bucket of Kentucky fried chicken. Of course, of course. He had KFC as his fucking last meal. In Sanity, that's insanity. You know, the thing that I kind of walk away from from this is just like is a tragic. It's as it's insanely tragic, but it could have been stopped

so much earlier, so many different times, every fucking chance. Yeah, every chance in the world to stop this guy. And it just never happened until the goodie little boy with his little family came into the picture and kind of blew up the the whole investigation and got out to the praise. Yeah, it's nuts. That's it, everybody. Thank you guys so much. And a big shout out to Diana, who helped me out with this episode

with the series of episodes as always. She's always a killer researcher killer killer killer killer. Knocked it out. We will be back next week with something much, much lighter than true crime before we dive into another true crime series. Again, God knows when, but we're off to head off to patreon.com. To record our mini so we love you. Thanks for your support and we'll see you next time. Stay cool.

Anyway, goodbye. Me and my wife were sitting outside indulging on our porch one night, enjoying ourselves. I needed to go to the bathroom, so I stepped back inside. And after a few moments, I hear my wife go, holy shit, get out here. So I quickly dash back outside. She's looking up at the sky in the fall. I look up to and there's a perfect line of dozen lights traveling across the sky. Yeah.

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