Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 144 - The Fermi Paradox

Episode Date: March 15, 2022

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Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Chiluminati Podcast, episode 144. As always, I am one of your hosts, Mike Martin, joined by the Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid of L.A. Tragic. Jesse and Alex. What happened to us? I've often asked myself that. What brought us down in a hail of gunfire?

What did we stand for? Just the algorithm? The truth. No, you were after the truth. You were standing up for the truth. Have you seen The Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid? No? Cowboy movie, at least?

No, I thought it was actually, I thought it was a TV show. Wow. Wow. Which one do you think we are? Which of the, which of the two do you think is who? Who's the Sundance Kid? Who's Butch Cassidy? Jesse's the Sundance Kid.

Hell yeah. Alex is Butch Cassidy. Okay. All right. Yeah. Does that work? Does that fit? It's fine.

I don't think you approve. They neither of them make spoilers, so don't, don't worry about it. Yeah. Okay. I know this is your episode today, Jesse, and I know you've got a, you've got a shill for Patreon, Alex, but I just got to get this last John Wayne Gacy fact out of my head because he's bothering me. Oh, good.

He's been bothering me all week. Let's, okay. John Wayne Gacy and Ted Bundy were active during the exact same years, 74 to 78. And if you like it. And just, just crazy. Shilluminati episodes coming out every week at the exact same time, head to patreon.com slash shilluminati pod where you can be industrious alongside us, the John Wayne Gacy to your Ted Bundy by funding this fine show each week.

It makes sense. It makes about as much sense as anything that we say on here. Head down there. You get mini-soads right after every episode and access to every mini-soad that's ever been. What is there? Like 60 of them in there? No, there's like 85 in there.

Wow. That's a lot. That's even more than I thought. You get exclusive art. You get presale on all kinds of stuff that we sell. And now this is, by the way, now that we've done the second one, I know I already, I already plugged it once. We did the ghost adventures documentary that Zach Bagan's like God is Meal ticket off of.

One of the, one of the most like as a guy who makes amateurish videos then puts them online, I could do better than that by myself. I mean, granted, it was 2005. I'm not going to talk mad, mad shit. But you know what? I was making AMVs in 2005 to look better than that. I think I can make that. That's what I was going to say.

I think my school projects at Cal State Fullerton, 15th Seated in March Madness is my, during, during my education, I was doing better stuff than ghost adventures. So it's just, it's just some bros driving around talking to crazy people about ghosts. And Zach Bagan saying the same thing three times in a row, once via narration, once via interviewing, once. Don't spoil the amazing Patreon content. Do you know in a PS2 game when you're like watching a cut scene and then like they kept animating, but like nobody ever cut the scene.

They just like let it roll and like some characters like walk off camera and you're just like looking at like the side of a cliff and like some like a building, like a piece of a building that you can't really tell what it is. That's what half the movie is of ghost adventures. So get ready for that at patreon.com section nine pod selling it really well. We're talk, we talked over it. You figure out how to watch it yourself. I'm not going to even spoil that part of the adventure for you, but go, go, go figure

it out. Losers, damn suckers. Yeah, wow, that went from please go support us to you bunch of losers and suckers. So it's psychology. Only the losers and the only losers and suckers are the haters. You know what I mean? Which reminds me on iTunes or Spotify, if you can five stars, please. We like those. Subscribe would be nice while you're while you're at it.

If you listen to this all the time and you haven't subscribed, what's the matter with you? Get on there. What's the matter? You come on. What's the matter? You? Jesse. You have the wheel today, sir. Oh, gentlemen, I'm scared. I'm scared because all he said is like, this is going to fuck people up. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, the first text message we got was like, I'm going to fuck them all up. It's like, OK, for this episode, I wanted to cover a topic that's been in my mind a lot lately, and I can't tell you why, because it's a spoiler for something that I love. So just like, know that this comes from a place that has been on my mind a lot. Ladies and gentlemen, John Wayne Gacy. It's a topic that we've touched on in the past, and I'm sure we've pointed out things about this, but we've never really deep dived it. And since we spent a lot of time so far this year earthbound,

I wanted to take us to the heavens. My favorite. I'm in up front. I consider this to be an educational episode, but also one that is definitely going to mind fuck you. So if you're listening right now, this could potentially be scary. And I'm warning everyone. You are about to enter the world of existential dread and the potential of laying in your bed tonight, staring at the ceiling and being like,

well, shit. So if you don't want that, you might want to sit this episode out. That's all I'm saying. And may I add to that, then? It sounds like if you're if you're able to do so legally and have the means to maybe get a little, you know, smoke, maybe have a good time, you know, just a little bit of enjoyment might make it easier. I feel like I should have came lathered in CBD oil and edibles at the ready.

Actually, yeah, let me set the mood for that, then. Yeah. Oh, yeah. OK. Well, you were going to say something. Alex, you got to look at your face. I was just going to say, destroy me, dog. I'm ready. Just rip me apart, dude. Daddy, it can't be worse than the three episodes in a row about fucking John Wayne, Casey, we're talking about you all learned something. I learned that I hate him more than I did.

And that now KFC is permanently correlated with John Wayne. It really is. I'm not even going to lie. It really is. I've done my job. So Jesse, setting up to get Mathis going because he gave me a great idea. If it's nighttime, where you're at when you're listening to this and if you can and you're definitely not driving, look up. If it's cloudy, where you're at or you're in the heart of a city, you know what?

Just remember the time that you could see the stars. The vastness of the universe, the absolute wonder of it all. And yet our total insignificance in that vastness, it leads one to wonder, what is our place in all of this? Why are we here? What does all of this mean? Does here even matter? Does here even matter?

Yeah. All right. You, I, all of humanity continue to find itself lost in this vastness of the universe that honestly, we still don't understand all that much. And there are many, many questions that we have and barely any answers. But one question we always ask. It's kind of the basis of this show, are we alone? Across billions of light years in the space above us, are we alone?

Could we possibly be all there is? This is the question scientists have pondered for years. Philosophers much longer, but recently scientists and they've attempted to answer this question in a bunch of different ways. But in the last 50, 60, 70 years have been doing so using the language, well, the universal language of math to help guide us to this answer of are we alone? So is this going to be the real like I turned into math episode? Maybe you know, I guess I have to find out.

Break me down. In 1961, physicist Frank Drake developed a mathematical equation to do just that, to determine if there's life in the universe. It's super complicated. And so I'm just going to dumb it down here and try to break it down and explain it the best way I can to find the number of intelligent civilizations out there and answer the question of are we are alone? We take our galaxy, the Milky Way, for example, and look at the rate of stars

that exist. And from that, we find the fraction that looks at the rate of those stars with planets. And then a fraction of that is the planets that could support life. And then a fraction of that is do those planets actually have life? And there's a fraction of that, which is is that life intelligent? And then there's a fraction of that, which is are those intelligent life forms attempting to communicate with other civilizations outside of their world? And then the last part of the equation is basically the length of time

that they have been releasing those detectable transmissions. So according to this equation, excluding us, if a civilization could survive for at least 100 years after sending their first transmissions into space, looking for life in theory, there would be 10 civilizations in our galaxy capable of this communication in theory. That's just like the if 100, if they could last for 100 years, right, there'd be 10. And just to add a little flavor to this, because I think it's fun and it's

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To manifest car insurance made easy, go to GEICO.com. One of my absolute favorite scientists in the world, Dr. Michio Kaku, is he's kind of known as like a philosophical scientist. He's like the Neil deGrasse Tyson, who like never quite. He's not as funny as Neil deGrasse Tyson. Yeah, he's just like a scientist, dude. But also Carl Sagan had stuff to say on this as well. It's called the Kardashev scale.

And it's something that we've talked about in the show minimally in the past, but we can really deep dive in now because it's related to where we're going. Basically, it's a way for scientists to split up intelligent life into different categories. A type zero civilization is something that's just starting out. They're finding their way on their planet. It isn't really an official designation because it's really kind of hard

to determine where civilizations start. It's kind of a murky gray area. A type one is a civilization that can harness all the energy available to their home planet, fusion, solar, hydrogen. Essentially, they can control the planet's weather. They can control earthquakes of volcanoes. They can stop hurricanes. They could even travel to other planets in their relative solar system.

A type two is a civilization that branches out to multiple planets and other solar systems. It uses the actual energy of its own star and something like a Dyson sphere. All a lot of video games is that type of civilization. Absolutely. Yeah, it's a more fantastical, fun thing, but it's also relatable to us. We can kind of get it. All the resources of the entire solar system are available to be used. They would have like mega space structures and be able to travel

between planets easily, be able to travel between stars without much difficulty. And they could also protect these things. So if like a planet sized meteor showed up out of the blue headed towards Earth and we were a type two, we could blast that thing out of existence or a more advanced type two could like nudge Earth out of the way a little bit and then move it back. A type three civilization are ones that possess the ability to amass energy on a scale that is galaxy wide.

They can travel between worlds and around the galaxy in a blink of the eye. They can tap into things like supermassive black holes and use the energy of that gamma rays, quasars, whatever. And going back to what Alex was talking about, like kind of a pop pop culture away, a great example of these just going down the list would be. Cowboy Bebop or Blade Runner would be close to a one. The world of the Matrix would be like a one point three. The Federation Star Trek would be a two.

The Gems from Steven Universe would be a three. Oh, yeah, that's true. The Asgardians from Thor would be a three. Star Wars is a two, but because it has the force, it is a three. That makes any sense. It's like a loose three. Yeah, I see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, I'm with you.

And Thanos is a two, but with the Infinity Gauntlet, he has the potential to be something more. And that takes us into the theoretical area of a type four. And a type four is basically a civilization that can use the power of the universe. We're talking God status, like you said, yeah, potentially they can transcend their physical forms. It's it's like Q from Star Trek would be in this.

And this is the Celestials from Marvel Comics or absolutely. Yeah, yeah, they're just universal level magic to us. It would be it would literally be magic, but also, you know, a four point one and above something like someone who had the Infinity Gauntlet. They have the potential to reshape the universe, to delete the universe, to remake the universe, which is, you know, pretty powerful. And that's why there is a theoretical type five.

And this would be a civilization that controls multiple universes, right, which is to us an unfathomable thing to even think about because we don't even know that's true. But if there is a type five, these people are like God. Like Kang the Conqueror. Like yeah, yeah. Space time comparison. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, to see the time, you're absolutely right.

Yeah, yeah. And so my question to you two is where do we fall on this list? I would say we're like a point five. Depends, bro. We're not quite zero, but we can't quite control the weather and earthquakes. We don't have a complete control over the earth. So I would say somewhere between like point three and point five. We're either we're either less than a one or we're a five, bro.

How about that? Damn. Think about that, bro. Think about the metaverse. OK. Think about what if we made the matrix already? What if Elden Ring is the matrix? If if if Elden Ring is the new universe, we're fives, dude. You know what I'm saying? I mean, in theory, you are correct.

If you can create with your mind and create stories, are those real worlds? I don't think I can do that. Well, that's true. That comes to that. Then you bring in the the question of what is consciousness. Is my imagination real? That's right. And then if the simulation theory is correct,

then if you can create a simulation, then you would be technically a type five. If the simulation is real, I'm a free guy. I'm not even I'm not even a fucking one. I'm a fucking I'm a fucking clippy. Well, they're like the simulation world of the matrix, for example, would be a one point three. So it is the world of the matrix where you eat gruel and everybody has a plug in their head or the world because the robots are running society in that robots are at a one point three.

A great example is when I was doing research on examples, they said that the humans in since this is very topical, the humans in Horizon Zero Dawn and Forbidden West are a point six. But the robots are like a little war. Yeah, because they run the world. And so, you know, there's different civilizations. Like if you live in a thing where the matrix exists, there's the human Zion civilization versus the robot civilization.

And that's two competing civilizations on the same planet and run the world. Like like, OK, we're bringing up great questions. Like the Federation, right? Like that's predicated on already like they went from a one to a two or whatever, when Ephraim, whatever, found the the Romulans. Zephyr Cochran, whoever it was, the Vulcans came down. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. But in that world already, there was already like, you know, the like now

that now that Putin has fucked up Europe, now that Putin has like destroyed the like like certainty that democracy will prevail in Europe, right? Like the idea of us all coming together like the EU is like slight like slipping away from us a little bit geopolitically, right? Well, let's get to that. Yeah. So do we even have a are we even a clear one? I think we're under that. I think we're like a seven point seven.

Yeah, according to scientists, Alex, you're exactly right. We are seven or point seven or more accurately a point seven three is what they're saying. We are close to a type one, but they say that in order to hit a type one, we have to increase our energy production a hundred thousand times greater than what it is now. And the only way to do that is to master the potential energy of our planet. And we are literally stuck using the exact same three or four types of energy over and over and over again.

And, you know, there's many things. We'll talk about it later. We'll come back to this, but if we were the point, if we were a one, we would have none of these issues. Yeah, we would be united planet. Absolutely. We would be our concerns would be more interstellar than it is, you know, on earth and dealing with our BS. Absolutely. We'd have like starting federation vibes.

Anyway, now that we've talked about that, let's go back to Drake and the search for intelligent life. And we'll come back, like I said, to the carcative scale later. So about 20 years before Drake, during a lunch with different astrophysicists, the conversation came up that silenced everyone in the room and has since been quite the conundrum in the science world. The story goes that Enrico Fermi, an Italian born American scientist who won the 1938 Nobel Prize for physics, has an actual element named after him,

is one of the leading minds of the start of the nuclear age. Dude, I recommend I recognize his his name. Yep. Yep. I don't know why I said recommend. I guess I recommend. I recommend this name. If you were going to put him on a science team or something, I guess I would recommend his name. Yeah. So he's sitting around at lunch with all of his colleagues and they're having what I assume is, you know, one of those conversations

that people just have, especially if you're a scientist, I said, that's not a neutron. That's my wife. And after they all laughed, Fermi comes in and he's like, let me blow your minds at the time. They're discussing the existence of alien life. And Fermi listening to all these theories and all these conversations literally just says, where is everybody? And it's a question that is so diabolical in its simplicity.

The room fell silent. No one could answer. If there are just like think of this question. If there are billions and billions of stars with trillions of planets, why haven't we heard from anything out there? And this is the question that, you know, taking Drake's equation and the card of scale, all of this together forms the Fermi paradox. If the Milky Way, our galaxy is 13 billion years old, it's roughly 13 billion and 100,000 light years across.

As an example, if alien spaceships could travel just one percent, the speed of light, the galaxy could have potentially been colonized a thousand times already. Why haven't we heard of any life? It's called the prime directive, Jesse. Well, we'll get to some of that. Maybe the reason that the reason that people get to level one, stage one, whatever it is, what is it called?

That's just type one, type one civilization. If the way people get to type one is they fucking listen to each other and respect each other and like work together to get to a fucking uni, uni, uni government or whatever. And we we just can't. That's it. Well, and this this is a question that, you know, we have pondered, right? We're like looking at ourselves and how messed up we are. And we think about other life out there.

Just if the galaxy is 13 billion years old and there's the potential that it could have been colonized every planet a thousand times over, why? Like, why aren't we the colony of something else? You know what I mean? Well, like, let me put it this way. Like, OK, once we realize that animals are important to the universe, to our existence, to everything, we stop. We do like the idea, let's put it this way,

because humans don't have their shit together. The idea that we should not bother them and let them do their thing exists. Right. Certainly. Like it's better to do that than to take their just to take them all and do something to them or something like that. So ostensibly, to get to level one, right, in my mind, all the terrestrial get mine type stuff that humans are so fixated on. That's the first thing that's got to go.

So for me, the reason that they aren't bothering us is because they're not fucking dicks like we would imagine them to be. Maybe they're actually every every fucking spacefaring type one civilization is like an entire civilization of like Athens versus Rome, you know, or versus Sparta, not Athens. But even then the question becomes, what if they are Sparta instead of Athens? Why haven't we been dominated, right?

I don't think it's possible. Why haven't we been dominated? And so this this brings up the you know, it is a paradox. There's a question out there that drives scientists and philosophers crazy because just as human beings, we have a desire to know whether we are alone when we look up at the night sky. That's why we have said it's why we are looking for signals. It's why we have podcasts like this one and we talk about secret UFO bases

and crazy theories because like we want to know. But the most popular and honestly, darkest theory is one proposed by scientist Robin Hansen and it's called The Great Filter. And this is essentially an evolutionary wall that is impermeable, impermeable, excuse me, to most life. It's kind of what Alex is getting at. It's a concept that is essentially.

Like, how do I describe this? Basically, the way it works is that the failure for us to find any extraterrestrial civilizations in the observable universe implies everything science tells about the possibility of civilizations and, you know, the appearance of extraterrestrial life and intelligent life out there. While probable, it's actually more likely there's something preventing them from still existing or contacting us.

And this is The Great Filter. And the scary thing is, is that we don't know if we're in front of it. Like if it's in front of us or if we're if it's like behind us, basically. So let me try to explain. If it's behind us, scientists speculate that this Great Filter is literally the jump between a single celled organism and like a multi celled organism, right? Like the spark of life is The Great Filter.

And once you do that, once you once you've jumped, life can begin. But the implications of that are that if this is the case, we life forms on Earth are among the very small amount of survivors that made it to The Great Filter, because then why aren't people contacting us? Right? And if the filter is ahead of us, then we're not receiving communications from other civilizations because, you know, that may have existed for 10 billion or 11 billion years because they hit the wall and cease to exist.

Implying we will inevitably hit this wall, too. Going back to what Alex was saying about that level one, right? There isn't just one wall, according to this scale. How could they possibly know that? Well, I mean, I guess, yeah, there's likely many. That's yeah, there's likely. So each jump requires you get beyond a wall. So going like a jump from a type zero to a type one

and then a type one to a type two, there's a wall between each of those. And if you can't make it over that wall, you're done. So, you know, going from a type one to a type two, for example, harnessing the power of the sun. What if we screw it up? What if we destroy the sun? We're done. Thinking more down Earth like what Alex was talking about. We're a point seven right now. Getting to that type one literally means we stop fighting each other.

We work together. We take care of the planet. We strive for the stars. We look at the world. We harness its energy. We harness its power. But even then, if we get over all of our bullshit and unite together. And we can like control the earth and stop weather catastrophes and stuff like that. What if in doing that, we somehow cause

a catastrophe that destroys everything and wipes us out? That's a possibility, too. Yeah. And so that's that's the dark thought behind this. That's like no matter what, we will eventually hit a wall that will challenge us to get off this planet and shoot for the stars. And if we can't, we die on the planet. And that same thing in theory with what we're talking about here has happened to numerous civilizations because we'd all be foolish

to think that there's not something else out there. But the implication here is that other things could have existed in the past and they have simply ceased to be. And we are. Like on that same path to figure out where we're going to end up. And so we either hit the type one or we stagnate and die. Yeah, I mean, OK, this is like almost like, though, in almost not. I don't want to I don't mean to refute it,

but just as a almost like a devil's advocate thing, like, like, you know, that movie Arrival or The Arrival or whatever it's called, the D. Villanue or or actually, you know, it's better. You know, that fucking tweet that's like, you know, those tweets where they like pretend like it's dialogue from someone and they put like the person's name and then they put colon and stuff. Sure. So it was it's one of those. It's a famous tweet now.

It's like guy who has only seen the movie Boss Baby. It's the only movie they've ever seen. And the quote is this movie has given me like some real boss baby vibes. I don't know about you, right? I feel like we're doing the boss baby thing about civilizations. Like I feel like this scale works if you assume some level of familiarity between us and other life forms in the galaxy. And I think that maybe like the idea of this this barrier

being something that is like something we'll ever even find or know for sure, I think is a little bit of a. Distorted perception of how life, how varied life is and whether or not like, I mean, like the idea that we'll ever get over the problem of working together, right? Think about like plants, for example, right? Like plants have like this little like, what is they called it? What are they called? Mycelium?

What are those things? Yeah, the little like little mushrooms. It's like a fucking I it's like an internet of mushroom. Like I can't even tell you how crazy it is. Like look into that sometime if you want to feel real fucked up. Literally the plot of Star Trek Discovery, by the way. I'm not even joking. What the plant internet? I don't know anything about Star Trek Discovery.

Alex, straight up they ride on the Mycelium network of space where the mushroom space connect. It's like crazy, dude. It's I love that. I love that the Mycelium network on Earth, though, literally trees all over the world can like talk to each other kind of. A UCCU home equity line of credit puts your home's equity to work for you. Finish your basement or yard and raise your home's value. Pay off higher interest, help with college or weddings.

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some spore shoots off into space and they're like a level three and they don't even realize they have those abilities. And that's and that I think is the key is that this is all based off information we know about intelligent life, right? We clearly do not have a Starfleet that can seek out new life and new civilization. So we don't know what could possibly this is just based on like what our conception of intelligent life is to us, what intelligent life in communication is. And actually, don't even worry, I knew Alex is going to be too damn smart for this. So I included stuff later that literally just goes into this.

So you're absolutely correct. You are 100% spot on. So like there are many other explanations about this kind of stuff out there. You know, maybe because we're in the middle of nowhere in our galaxy. Like if you look at Earth and our solar system on a galactic chart of the Milky Way, we are like we're the outer rim. We are tattooing basically. We are the back roads or the boonies of the Milky Way and maybe somewhere their tier three is just living it up and they do not concern themselves with us. Or if you're like a modern ufologist, they're watching,

they're studying, but they don't mess with us, right? They don't have a need to. They don't care. Like there's that there. I mean, if you want to go a little more crazy, like I like to like the idea that we are an experiment, not an experiment, but, you know, we are being observed for scientific purposes. Like we are just in fashion like a zoo or a cage of animals for any normal scientist where they can observe evolution or whatever it is that we are. And the rules are you don't interfere because let's just see what the fuck happens to them.

Yeah. And this, and this, and this is part of that like us trying to explain this, why have we not heard anything? You know what I mean? Like at the core of our existence, we are here shouting to space, is anyone there? And it's like the number you have dialed, which again could be like you were saying, Mathis, maybe they're picking up, but they're not answering because they're like, we're watching you and we are trying to figure out what's going on with you people because you're an experiment. Like very well, we have no rightful idea about what the hell is going on. In fact, we could be listening like Alex was saying, we could be listening for signs of

life and we're just listening wrong. Maybe we don't have the technology to understand. Maybe life is not what we perceive it to be and it can be something else. And like just for example, like, okay, like think about human ambition or whatever. The thing is that makes us make kings and makes us want to take over everything. The like huge problem that humans have with this. It's a territorial like, you know, monkey brain. Some somewhat, right? But then I think about things like Bob's Red Mill. Are you familiar with this? No. No. Bob's Red Mill is like a brand of like grains. They make like oatmeal, they make grits, stuff like that. Like stuff that comes in like a giant bag that lasts for seven months or whatever. And this is company

and they have like a place that they do their business and they buy all their grains from farmers and stuff. And they have like this building and there's like, I don't know how many employees that were like 200 employees or something and they were doing real well. And it's in all these shops and stuff. And then Bob from Bob's Red Mill, I believe this is not like a news report on this. This is just hearsay. But basically what happened was they reached this point where everybody's doing great in the whole company. They're feeling great. They're existing within capitalism. They're doing good. Bob gives the company gives everybody in the company equity in the company equal and he gives the company over to them and they now own it. And because of that, they don't need to grow

any larger and they don't need to just get everybody rich at the whole company. They just have this system in place that works. They make a good product. They make sure that everybody's covered. Everybody gets a substantial chunk of change as long as they keep the Bob's Red Mill company happy and healthy. There's no need to become the biggest grain provider in the world, much less America. And so I think the mentality, I think that that's the mentality, regardless of whether it's instinctual or cultural, I think that's the thing that's going to stop people. I think that that mentality is the thing that's going to get people to that point where they're going to go to level one and maybe the barrier to level one isn't even something like

they can't do it. Maybe the real barrier is like they reach this point where they realize, you know what? We can just live in sync with our world and why leave? We save the earth. If we save the earth tomorrow, if Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos did a bunch of acid and they woke up tomorrow and they were like, we got to save this world and they just spent all their money and saved the world like tomorrow, which they could do, which is crazy to me. They could do it. If they did that tomorrow and they just fixed everything, if Greta Thunberg could just go to sleep happy for once and just think to herself like, I did it. Why do we need to even go to space at that point? Exactly. This is why I love having you on this show, Alex.

Our next thing literally is maybe they are just satisfied with their position in the universe and they don't need to reach out to us. They don't feel the need to push further into the stars. But then this takes us to two very dark places, which is one of the things that I think no one thinks about, but is, you know, one of those billionaire things if you're a massive galactic civilization is the universe itself is expanding and it has all its potential energy, but eventually that shit will stop and the universe will die a slow heat death and everything and everyone in it will cease to be. And that will be like time that we can't even fathom, but the idea is inevitably that will happen. And so when you reach the point of a type three, right, or you're hitting that

type four situation, like there comes a time where perhaps those civilizations have realized that like, what's even the point, bro? Why bother doing any of this if in the end we are all doomed anyway? It's like, why care? Right? Like we've achieved so much, even when you're talking about like Greta, she puts her head down like, I've done it. At that point, what does she do now? Right? Like, if you've achieved perfection, what comes next? You put on like a like a bland colored tunic and you wear like a nice fabric belt and everybody's outside. Then that leads to like, what do you, like every day is mundane. Every day is the same. Like I can do anything. If you're type four and you can do anything. After a while, hey, no spoilers for the arc of the queue continuum in

Star Trek, but they're like, this sucks. We, this existence sucks. Like there's a great, the one of the best Star Trek episodes is when one of the queue wants, he's like, I would like to commit suicide, please. And they literally have a trial about like, is this dude allowed to do that? Like that could, you know, but they did that in the Netherlands. Like, you know what I mean? Like you can have a nurse come kill you now in the Netherlands. And it's that kind of thing where civilizations, like what if an entire civilization hit the point of just like, we have achieved immortality, but what is immortality when the universe will eventually go to nothing? Like what the, what the hell's even the point? So like there's that, or

there's the other thing, which is even like more messed up, which, but I also think it's kind of fun in a like a sci-fi way, which is like going back to Drake's idea of transmissions sent out. And if they've spent a hundred years setting out the same transmission, why haven't we heard it? Well, maybe they sent out a transmission and someone did hear it and then they wiped their asses out. You know, like someone was like, Oh, there's someone out there. Let's go there and take them over. Right? That could be another thing that happens. And we just don't know. There's like everybody staying quiet for a reason. Yeah. Like maybe there's something like a Borg, or you know what I mean? Like you don't want to transmit because now someone's going to come

take over your planet. Maybe that's it too. That is, that is entirely possible. Yeah. And so, you know, lately, the reason why I bring this up is because in 2018, there was another study that they straight up use computer modeling and they took supercomputers and put it into this whole thing because the idea was like, okay, what if Drake's model was off? Right? What if this whole thing that we've been thinking about was totally off and the last part of the equation, the time of transmission, let's change it. Let's, let's mess with it. What if it's a thousand years or 10 years or 10 million years? And so a paper done on the Fermi Paradox in 2018 had researchers modify this part of the equation to all sorts of numbers. And then on a logarithmic scale,

basically input a full range of possibilities, put it in a simulation, run that supercomputer, and sees with a statistical reliability, what this fundamental question of our existence would give us in return. And based on all the simulation results, this is what the computer spit out using all the possible variable numbers. All right? You ready for this? Yeah, I'm ready. There is a 53 to 99.6% chance that we are the only civilization in our galaxy. There is a 39 to 85% chance that we are alone in the universe. Obviously, these are wild swings and percentages. 39? Yeah. Yeah. But the, they say this is based on current information. So everything we know is put into this. So in the future, this will change. But currently, based

on what we know for certain, there was a 53 to 99.6% chance we were alone in our own galaxy, and a 39 to 85% chance that we were alone in the universe. And that alone in the galaxy versus alone in the universe is so different that I just, I can't understand how they have a number at all for universe. Well, and I think the universe one, the reason why it's 39 to 85, and it's such like a crazy swing there is because it's like, you know, they said, based on known information. So like, I wouldn't trust that one as much because it's just, it's such a wild swing 39 to 85 is huge. But the 53 to 90, like, we're starting at 53% chance. We are 5050 that we are alone in the universe based on what we know. And that I think is like

the number that is pretty messed up when you think about it, because we have no information, like that's so little information. The reason why it's 5050 is because we just don't know. And we've, we're begging for answers. And we just, we just don't know. And that's why every time there's like aliens are about to land or whatever, like math is as hype as hell. Because then we'll have an answer. But right now, according to this, they're saying 53 to 90. So basically 53 to 100%. We're alone in this galaxy. We are it, which is, it breaks my heart seeing that because when you see the stars, you're like, there's no way. There has to be other people out there. There has to be. Yeah. But they, they ran the numbers on the supercomputer and they tested

every variable. And this is what they came back with. The thing that fucks me up is that like, if there is a sign of life out there, like if there is an attempted contact, it's probably going to be from somebody who wasn't supposed to do that. Do you know what I mean? Like that, that fucks me up. Like it's going to be like some, like one of our first contact isn't like Ephraim. What's his name? Zefran Cochrum. Yeah, pretty close. Yes, yes. Good enough. Zefran. You guys both know what it is. It's, it's Zefran Cochran. Yes, I know what it is. That's like one of the only things I know a lot about. Star Trek and Rain of Fire 2000. Yeah, like, like it's not going to be that. It's probably going

to be closer to like a family guy joke. Right. Like some fucking yeah, like some alien like Ted from the movie Ted or no, what's that movie called? Paul? Paul? Ted? One of the two, which doesn't matter. Ted's the bear. That makes sense. Now that I think about it for a second, makes sense. Ted's the bear. But yeah, you know what I mean? Like that's the part to me. Like you're like, this is going to fuck you up. The part that's fucking me up right now is the thought that like the only person that would ever bother coming here and dealing with us is like some drunk ass who didn't mean to come here or like somebody who's like the alien version of QAnon, which like makes me sad. We have resources and we have like, it blows my mind that no one's exploiting this.

I mean, I don't know. I guess you're right. I don't know what we have. But there could be some people, you know what I mean? What if they just eat like some element that doesn't even exist on earth? Like there are many of them. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry. Oh, no. As you say, like your responses are very typical of like what the responses to this article were. A lot of people were like, pretty egotistical to think that we're the only life out there, which, you know, I agree with. It's not egotistical. It's just bold. It's just a bold. It's like, if I was the editor of this article, I would be like, are you sure you want to put a number on how alone we are in the universe based on the data set here? That's what the stats say.

And again, you know, if you exist in a world where we ignore the paranormal stuff like, I mean, nor the ufology like this world. Yeah, if you exist in the real world, Mathis, there is no evidence for anything else out there yet. None. It's Jeep four by four season. Make your next adventure epic and hurry in now for great deals. Now well qualified returning FCA less seeds get a low mileage lease on the 2023 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Laredo four by four for $329 a month for 24 months with $3,999 do its signing, tax title license extra, no security deposit required. Call one eight at eight nine two five Jeep for details requires dealer contribution, a lease through ally financial

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like maybe it's a structure built around a sun? Remember that? Yeah, I remember that, but it like disappeared and it's not evidence. I guess it's just a possible looking at the great filter. It does kind of make you think like maybe a lot of civilizations tried and failed. And what's so crazy about all this is when this study came out, I think this is so funny. You can look this up June 24th, 2018. Elon Musk tweeted about this and honest to God used it as reasoning for wanting to push space travel because he was like humans, all the civilization that must move to the stars. And we are the ones that like that kind of thing, which even though I have opinions on Elon Musk, I definitely think that that attitude is one that I kind of share. Like I'm with you miss the fact

that like I, even though I have to believe the moon landing was real, it does upset me that we have just given up on space for the most part as a nation and as a world. Like we still dabble. It's not that we've given up on it. I think no grand, like we don't do anything grand anymore. We aren't like, let's do this. I think the accurate description of how we feel about space is that we are, it's how I feel about VR also, which is that we're just resigned to the fact that technology is not with us yet. Like maybe in 10 years, if somebody invents the fucking Iron Man thing, the little fucking infinite energy chest heart thing, like or whatever it's called, somebody probably knows, somebody's going to be like, it's the arc reactor. You know what it was.

Yeah, you got it. You guys both knew it was the arc reactor. I had to think for a second because you said it out loud. I didn't know it was called the arc reactor. But you know, until we have that, I think it's, I understand why in 40 years, we haven't done that much. It makes sense to me. But also like, I don't know, because here's my other thing about this as a cynical person, like in terms of the paranormal, totally up open-minded. In terms of the normal, very, very close-minded about how things are going to go. And let me tell you something. Elon Musk is interested in it. Jeff Bezos is interested in it. Good for them. Here's what's going to happen. You know, all those movies where somebody comes to a planet that's about to explode

and the drama is what? That the rich people have a fucking spaceship that's going to blast off and they're going to leave. I think Loki had it. You know, like, you know, like this, this trope. It's a trope because it's really easy to imagine. And let me tell you, have you ever seen one thing that rich people have that's real good, that's really beneficial just to them, that costs a lot of money, that they thought everybody should have this? I'm just out of my own, the kindness of my own heart. I want everyone to have this. Well, I mean, like, why are rich people living longer than poor people if that's the case? Do you know what I mean? Better quality of life, better quality of food, better quality of everything. And imagine if there was actually a rich person

who had the ability to just, okay, it's got it costs like 30 billion dollars or something, not even that much money, like, like, no, seriously, like, like, it's like nothing. It's like a comprehensible amount of dollars to like, tomorrow, solve world hunger, like you could just throw. Oh, yes, yes, you could like throw money at it and it would be gone and they can't even do that. And you think they're going to be like, let's wait until everybody can leave the planet before we leave the planet with our space travel. There is if there's another if there's another fucking barrier, it's that a bunch of dumbasses took off in a rocket that's our only hope for safety and then they blow up in the atmosphere. Well, that is, and that's that's probably the

fucking thing that stops like when a point one tries to go to space. And they don't it's because it's like a fucking pleasure yacht orgy yacht that flies right into the sun and explodes. We're skipping over Star Trek and going right to cyberpunk. There's no skipping over. There's no skipping over. Yeah, but Alex is right. Like that Loki where they're like everyone board the train, you know, like it is and that is an inherent problem with, you know, just our thoughts on the universe is again, this is all based off of knowledge that we currently have. And the knowledge we currently have is that we exist in a world like Alex is saying, where the rich are like F y'all, where nations are like, we don't I'm going to get mine. People are like, I'm going

to get mine. We don't give a shit about like, I didn't think like this either. You know what I mean? Like I learned this from reality. If you if you went into 2019, if you went in the beginning of 2020 thinking, you know what, I think rich people are cool. And then by right now, you're at a point where you're like, I still think rich people are cool. You're probably rich. Yeah, fair point. You're probably a hell of rich. And on that point of like, you know, this is using information that we know to go in the other direction of the more kind of like wooey side of things is just like we also know we still don't understand our universe, how it works. We have theories that are being proven right slowly over time, but we still like our knowledge of physics

is still ever changing as we discover more things about the universe. And God knows what we still don't know about how the universe even just operates on a normal daily basis. And like who knows what information or things we could learn. That's actually that would set us to pick up maybe the other forms of communications like we just don't understand our universe beyond our three dimensional earth based stuff. And we know there's quantum physics and all this shit that we we've made. We've done tests where we know it's there, but we also just like it's so fucking hard to study. If I had to do like a like double feature with this concept as like like the opposite article, I would show like a Buzzfeed article of like 25 things that are central to

our life on earth that science has no answer for. And and like post that and be like like all this data could be like invalidated like tomorrow with progress and like any of these fucking fields. But you're like absolutely correct. That's why they say like this is with the knowledge we possess the current knowledge. Yes. And the thing that I think is interesting is that everything you're talking about everything that we are discussing right now is and again this relates to the certain thing that I think is a spoiler and I can't talk about, but it is something I love the idea that like everything I just said to you this idea that we are alone and you know other civilizations maybe not don't care about us or don't exist at all like whatever the idea is

that we are sitting here all agreeing like f this business like we don't know enough we're trying our hardest we're trying to do the right damn thing over here and like we are going out of our way to like be better people so you know you don't know enough fuck this study we're going to like keep moving forward. It's true though like it's true like I kind of feel that way it's like fuck that study because I almost feel like it's egotistical of us to try and prove with how much we learn new every day it feels presumptuous of us rather to go out and try to prove that there's like other life in the universe when we there's still so much we don't understand and don't know but you know it's also it also points to our I guess as a species our own need

to our own curiosity like we have this aching like inner need to answer shit to know to learn and I also I can from that angle I can see why people are plugging in numbers because people want answers. Can I can I tell you thank you Mathis because you're making wrapping this up so easy and amazing. I literally I'm just going to steal this last bit from a Vox article by Liv Bowrie this I'm just verbatim. As Carl Sagan famously said in his 1990 pale blue dot speech in all this vastness there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves the earth is the only world known so far to harbor life the earth is where we make our stand he is not wrong especially in light of this paper's findings if humanity really is the only

civilization that may ever exist in the universe then we shoulder the responsibility on truly an astronomical scale and so that is pretty much the idea of like yeah stop freaking out about like being alone or thinking about other civilizations like we have one right now and we need to take care of it and we just are not doing that at all. Yeah like if it was up to me right if I if I could do something with this information that we're talking about right now I would do everything I could in my mind to get this type uh what is it what is the scale called? The uh oh my god the it's the it's the the Kardashev scale. The Kardashev scale? The Kardashev scale? The Kardashev scale? If we could get the Kardashev scale on everyone's minds as something that they internalize and have

them understand that before we can get our own millennium falcons because let me tell you something we're in the world where fucking William Hurt died just a little while ago and people are already tweeting about what's going to happen with the Red Hulk right so you gotta tell them hey if you want to have your own millennium falcon someday the first the first step is getting to type one and how much do you really care about your political party you know right now you know like how like how important is that to you versus the prospect of never having to see another war in your lifetime not being afraid of natural disasters and being able to go up in space and fucking smoke bongs up there and play fortnite in space you know what I mean man humanity wasn't meant

to work nine to five that's just the system we put in place we're meant to be out there using our creativity and living our lives in other countries people work less than americans too and they're happier and they do four days a week they work they do better work than us they work less they're happier and it's just because they like are free of this mindset that's all we're back to what alex said you know who made that nine to five yeah guys who are trying to blast off into space the man dude yeah you gotta stick it to the man and that's to keep you too busy to care and do anything else by making you work long enough so that when you get home you're just happy to be at home and be in bed and not think or want to do anything else with your life yeah and this is

it's like again imagine that for us and imagine that for every other potential being in the galaxy in the universe at some point everyone at least for what we know would have had to go through this transition of like we got to stop thinking about this dumb shit on planet you know zebulon and like get off of this thing and go to the stars and unfortunately we are stuck in a in a part of our civilization where it's like yeah here's what's crazy it definitely some i saw a tweet that someone said it feels like the last year has been most of the 20th century in like one year oh yeah yeah yeah it's like a history yeah yeah man like and you know what let's be real humanity isn't ready for that kind of travel yet man we are we barely ready for the

internet technology if we got if we got interstellar space interstellar space travel tomorrow got dropped in our laps we wouldn't be the humans of star trek we'd be the cardassians people couldn't even stay inside for fucking two weeks to make sure we didn't get covid okay like the idea that we're gonna like put aside all our differences and go to space together is insane to me like you would have to be the cardassians without question i think that's who we would be we'd be the fucking uh what like the lumpy space princess whatever the fuck she is what and maybe that's again going back maybe that's why no one wants to mess with us because we just aren't ready but yeah we're throwing it also we have a fucking pandemic that could

probably fucking kill you if you i have seen more of the world that's true i have seen that that doesn't end well for the aliens it's it's it's a fascinating subject that i love the idea of just taking time to think about the universe and our place in it i love that how like you know what at the end of the day like we may we may be it and if that's the case then we need to focus on ourselves because if we're gone then it's gone like that's it and so if you think about it from that perspective the idea that like take a minute ignore aliens for a hot sec and just think about us i can't do it if you think about us and you think about like no one's going to come save us like Carl Sagan said then it's up to us and like you got to do the work and you know we as a

species so far are really work at first we're just like what if someone else does it it's nuts but if you are worried about the history of the world and what's coming up don't worry because in our bonus episode today i am going to be relating relaying to you new predictions from a Caribbean celebrity psychic you're gonna know stuff about the geopolitical situation today some things that are going to be happening in the world uh amongst other things and we get we you know it gets pretty wild so where do these predictions take place they take place right near the beach boy patreon.com slash shilluminati pod the finest website island boys all right uh that's terrible you're singing us out into our outro song yeah thank you guys so much for listening and thank you again jessie for a

mind-bending episode i hope everybody listening is crying internally as they contemplate their existence we're gonna go over to patreon do that minisode and we'll see you next week for a regular one goodbye everybody we're sitting outside indulging on our porch one night enjoying ourselves i needed to go to the bathroom so i stepped back inside and after a few moments i hear my wife go holy shit get out here so i quickly dash back outside she's looking up the sky and i look up and there's a perfect line of dozen lights traveling across the sky uh uh

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