Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 158 - The Assassination of JFK Part 1 - Laying Out the Facts

Episode Date: June 23, 2022

It begins...buckle up this is gonna be a long one. Patreon - http://www.patreon.com/chilluminatipod BUY OUR MERCH - http://www.theyetee.com/collections/chilluminati Special thanks to our sponsors this episode Bombas - http://www.bombas.com/chill Honey - http://www.joinhoney.com/chill Talkspace - http://www.talkspace.com Promo Code: Chill Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - http://www.youtube.com/user/superbeardbros Art Commissioned by - http://www.mollyheadycarroll.com Theme - Matt Proft End song - POWER FAILURE - https://soundcloud.com/powerfailure Video - http://www.twitter.com/digitalmuppet

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Rev it up at Toyota.com. Toyota, let's go places. Music Hello everybody and welcome back to the Chiluminati Podcast, Episode 158. I'm pretty sure. That's right. Bang bang baby.

As bang bang, as always, I'm one of your hosts, Mike Martin, joined by the Bob Hope and Bing Crosby of LA. Oh man. Alex and Jesse. Alright, this is an easy one. Yeah, this is an easy one. Alex is 100% the Bing Crosby. Absolutely.

I'll take Bob Hope. I'm already swinging my golf club on stage for eight hours. He loves the troops. He loves diamonds. It's a good one this time around. This one worked a little bit easier than the past couple. We're out of the cowboy era. We're out of the cowboy era.

Now we're into the like mid-century crooner era. Yeah, that's where we are for a little while. Expecting six more years. And then we'll move into, maybe we'll go to like early 2000s movies edition. The only movies I've ever seen. Well, what are we going to do after the second episode of that? That's true.

That's fair. I hate that I know exactly where this is going. It's like the Bugs life and ants of LA. I have seen both of those movies. I have seen both of those movies. The Deep Impact and Armageddon of LA. Only saw Deep Impact. I saw it in the movie theater with my family.

You only saw Armageddon of the two. Armageddon is way better. What are you talking about? My family took us, the kids, to go see Deep Impact. I remember going to see that. I think they took you to the wrong one. Were they in theater at the same time? I think they were crying.

They were really close. Isn't that like a tragic, don't they all die at the end? Yes. I vividly remember the final scene of them standing on the cliff, like hugging each other, crying. What's their face? Taley only or whatever name was on the beach. Yeah, yeah.

And they just get viscerated. Yeah, that sucks. Yeah. I was like, there's a kid. I was like, what? The waves hit them and they vanished, dude. What? They're gone.

Does this help add layers to why I am the way that I am? 100%. Because you saw Deep Impact instead of Armageddon, that was either like a Bernstein divergent moment. Guys, welcome back to an Alex episode. Did you know it's time for an Alex episode today? Today is the JFK episode one. I hope that you look back on this and laugh at how long ago this was

when we reached the end of this all. But before we get into JFK episode one itself, I wanted to do a quick like Nintendo Direct about all the various promises that I've made on the show. I have to say then to support your point of how much time is going to pass. Yeah. Until we finish JFK. The Greenstone is over a year ago now.

Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. Basically, I am worried. You should always be thinking anytime Alex you talk, I'm like, this is it. This is the Greenstone. This is it. Maybe that's exactly what I want.

Anyway, here's the thing. I just wanted to remind everyone where I stand, what they can expect from the next few episodes I do here on the show. But first, just like any good Twitch stream reveal becomes the pre-roll ad. Patreon.com is not just the only place where you can spend money that directly supports the continued production of this fine show you're listening to now. It's literally crouching under the Texas School Book Depository windows of your wallet and delivering a single dead center kill shot of value straight to your brain

in the form of fresh minisodes after every new episode. Early access to Chiluminati presents Rotten Popcorn, our all new lawsuit free movie commentary show. Bespoke monthly digital posters, a regular drip feed of Chiluminati shirts, and much, much more. It's a magic bullet of savings. Patreon.com slash Chiluminati pod. The best place that you can visit.

Did you write that down? Was that written down? You better believe it. You better believe I wrote it. That was very good. I was like, there's no way to dump this head. This is very, very good. Yeah.

Back to the Alex Direct. Number one, this is the first real episode of the Long Promise JFK series. It's actually here. It actually has the name JFK when it was uploaded to the chat, to the, to the, to the, what do we call it, the feed, I guess, the pod, the fucking upload. RSS feed. Yeah.

However, just like the MCU for the full Alex JFK experience, I'd say it's probably worth checking out my 2022 mystery episode. Our first episode of the year, which I first lay out my plan for JFK and provide the official minute by minute timeline as laid out in the official story, as the government considers it at least. I also think you should listen to the beginnings of episode 149 and 150, in which I update that plan again and episodes 107 and 108 just for laughs. And then just recently, Minnesota 95,

which I would say includes something of an intro to this entire series. Maybe nothing, but it's there. Patreon.com slash to the 90 pod. Number two, let me reiterate the deal that I made. I owe it. I feel like I owed to you guys, right? Like I said, you owe us. I know more than you could ever pay.

I don't think so. I think I'm going to pay more than you'll ever want. Like I said, today we're starting with episode one of the JFK series, and there will be multiple episodes on several different JFK assassination books and resources, but just so our beloved and very generous audience, doesn't get bored from so much JFK stuff at once. As the year goes on, I'm going to alternate between JFK centric episodes and other more typical Alex episodes doing one of one and one of the other

until the whole thing is done. Currently, I'm trying to decide whether I want to do three JFK episodes or four JFK episodes. So we'll see exactly how long that takes pretty soon once this all comes into focus for you. But honestly, the big reveal here and the reason I'm doing so many different JFK episodes in the first place is that I'm going to be putting together my own comprehensive theory on who I think killed JFK at the end of everything. So before I do that, I just wanted to justify my process a little bit

by saying the different books I'm covering are like meant to be ones that I think provide like sufficient background for the listener to understand everything I'm going to talk about when we finally get to the one where I say what I actually think, right? Also, as Math has said, July 7th, 2021 is the one year anniversary of the Greenstone Part 2. I don't currently have anything to announce regarding plans for the promised Greenstone episode in which I finally reveal the mystery of the notoriously dilapidated house for the intro of the Greenstone Part 1. But I want to let you guys know that Retro Studios is hard at work on the project

and we will let you know as soon as they have anything worth sharing. I'll let you know. What the hell is Retro Studios? They also made Metroid Prime. Don't worry. It's a really, really niche gamer joke. Anyway, today's JFK book is called, They Kill Our Resident. Save me. It always comes back around.

Yeah. Whenever you get lost in the sauce, Jesse, just remember what it was like when Crandor ran an episode, all right? Yeah. I mean, at least I knew what he was talking about. It was insane, but at least I knew what he was talking about. This is the Kobayashi Maru of Shilluminati episodes. So get ready.

Today's JFK book is called, They Killed Our President. 63 Reasons to Believe There Was a Conspiracy to Assassinate JFK. It was written by WWF wrestler and former Minnesota state governor, Jesse Ventura. That's right. What this book is all about is basically showing a bunch of glaring facts that disrupt and cast doubt on key elements of the official story of what happened on November 22nd, 1963. And that's mostly what I'm going to be using it as.

But as I'm going to support it with lots of independent research, I grabbed a bunch of facts and interviews and like extra stuff from people who are really there, from the Warren Commission, other things like that that are similar to that, that go beyond the scope of just the book, when I needed to, to give you a clearer picture of what happened. Because let me be honest with you. Okay.

I read this book. I'm going to be honest with you. Governor Ventura and his co-authors, a man named Dick Russell and a man named David Wayne, but not that good, funny David Wayne, also bring a lot of their personal politics into this very angry and very informally written book. What? Yeah.

It's kind of like written for like an angry sixth grader. I got to be honest. It's like, he like talks shit. He has like, like rhetoric where he like, you know, like things like, you know how like Trump always goes like the failing New York times, like that, like he does a lot of shit like that in this book. That's like not profesh and like not good. So I had to kind of like sprinkle in facts and like actual research

to like back up some of this stuff. So you're welcome. They also have their own theory that they're trying to push a little bit from time to time in the book about what happened that involves like the CIA and some Cuban nationals and the Italian mob. I'm going to be going into a lot of that stuff a lot more in a lot in a lot more detail later, and it's not going to be like the Jesse Ventura version.

I don't think he's the final authority on those things to be like siding as my guy. No, man, the way he moves in the ring. I know he's so fast. He's so fast and so large and mostly today I'm going to be focusing on more of the stuff that legitimately just seems really weird inexplicable to me personally after reading through the book. And since there are 63 things, we already have way less than a minute

to spend on each one to come in on time. So we better get cracking. Just kidding. Buy the book if you get to the end of this episode and you find yourself wanting more. And yes, before the end of the series, I'm also going to be covering a lot of evidence supporting the official story as well, which may or may not refute some of what I cover in some of these books, but

I promise to try and take note of it. And if there's interest, I'll even start like an official leads and corrections thread on the subreddit where you guys can like give me some stuff that you think might be helpful or if you need to correct something that I said. Let me know what you think on Twitter or on Reddit. And if people seem excited at all, like actually do that. Anyway, I want to get started.

Here's this claimer. John F. Kennedy was a real person. What? Seriously. His assassination. This is a weird start. I got to be, I just got to say this because this is like real. His assassination was a real act of violence.

And as we go through this, I'm going to be saying some things and discussing some things that are some seriously disturbing imagery and subject matter and things that, you know, if you're particularly dismayed by what's going on in our country right now and with regards to gun violence, it might be tough to listen to some of this stuff. So I just wanted to give you that info, but also you got to remember this was the high profile murder of a sitting U.S. president. Okay.

Videos and pictures that you Google after listening to this. It's very well documented. It's one of the most famous things that's ever happened to ever. So you might find some pretty disturbing shit. If you start Googling this, so please proceed with caution. There's autopsy photos. There's videos. It's pretty fucked up.

It also like me. You can watch the his brains get blown out the back of his skull over and over and over again when you first start discovering. Yeah. Yeah. Back into the lab. I love that you guys are saying these things. Also, remember, it's one of the most notorious moments in world history.

It's extremely ingrained in our national culture at all levels. It's just easy to forget that it really happened. I'm sure that at some point during this one, two or all three of us are going to be flipping about this in ways that we haven't been about other murders on the show probably. So let me apologize for that in advance. I know it's going to happen. Also, please remember that until the very end, I'm going to be reporting on what other people think happened that day.

If you don't like what you hear, don't shoot the messenger. This is not my words at least until the last episode that I make where I will tell you what I think happened. Listen, we were pretty flipping about Boon Helm. We were making the kernel jokes about John Wayne, Gacy, Murder and Boys and Bribing Cops. Don't worry. We're going to make jokes all about JFK.

It's a single act of violence that we're going to talk about over and over again for like hours. And it's important to remember JFK was a fuck machine. Yeah. That's true. There's that flipping bitch. She's got to keep people on their toes. I'm here to bring the facts to him.

He loves to stick his dick in holes. Yeah. And also, I promise I'm going to do my best. I'm not an expert, though. I'm just a funny person on the Internet. So I'm probably going to mess up. I might even really mess up. So let me just apologize.

And without any further ado, let's get on the road. Part one is called Exploding Head. As we know, President Kennedy was immediately taken to Parkland Memorial Hospital following the shooting earlier that day. And as soon as he got there, even though he was eventually declared dead and beyond saving, there's like quotes from a million people that tell you like, dude, there was no chance. I mean, if you've seen it, you know, there was no chance. There was, again, if you watch that footage and I mean, I'm not suggesting you do, but

if you're ever like interested in just the history of the film and you end up catching it once, yet there's no way he's done. It's done. The minute you watch it's blow out. It's a pretty decisive. It's a pretty decisive. Yeah. But nevertheless, he was the president of the fucking United States.

So there was an entire hospital's worth of people there waiting to receive him when he arrived, not to mention all the U.S. government people who had met him there that day, just like, you know, just, you know, he came to Dallas and everybody that was involved and that is now at this hospital pretty much. And they all just went there after hearing he'd been shot. So first, Jesse, I'm going to have you got you read some stuff and then Mathis, I'm going to have you read some stuff. So this one's for Jesse.

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Dr. Malcolm Perry. Dr. Charles Crenshaw. Dr. Charles J. Corrico. Dr. Richard Delaney. Dr. Ronald Jones. Dr. Paul Peters. Dr. Kenneth E. I was almost about to say Slayer.

Slayer. I know. Sallier. Yeah. And then your math is just your names. Perfect. FBI agent, Frank O'Neill. Secret service special agent, Clint Hill.

Emergency room nurse, Audrey Bell. Radiographer, Jesus. Radiographer, Gerald Custer. Autopsy technician, Floyd Reeb. Autopsy technician, Paul O'Connor. Yeah. So these are all people that were there that day. But furthermore, this is also secretly a list of people that all said that when they

saw President Kennedy's body that day, that there was actually a huge exit wound in the back of his head, which goes contrary to what most people would say. Weirdly, this was slowly sort of glazed over and a lot of people like Secret service special agent, Clint Hill, who you said, eventually quote unquote, changed their minds, which initially might make you think about things like, you know, rational things, courtroom testimony, the reliability of memory, maybe it's possible that upon thinking about it again, they really did change their mind. But now I'm going to give Mathis a quote to read from when Clint Hill was interviewed

by the Warren Commission. And then you tell me whether he sounds confused at all about what he saw. OK. OK. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed.

There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood, you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of his head. Yeah. Now, if you follow the official autopsy as presented to the House Committee, you will see a diagram that says what actually happened was that the bullet did enter from the rear just at an angle where it didn't penetrate too deeply into the skull, kind of sailed

along the shallow surface of the skull. And then the exit wound that they're talking about was really just physics blasting the top of his skull cap straight up into the air from the pressure. So here's a here's a picture of that. If you if you want to see that that was used, that was created for the commission. It's a little link to like a, you know, drawing of it. Yeah, it's a drawing. And so, yeah, you can see what I mean.

I don't know if I'm describing that good enough everybody, but basically like went in like kind of low and tight on it, like a stone skipping water kind of, but it still went through his head near the top, but it was just too much and and the top of the thing blew off. So it looked like, you know, somebody getting hit from the front of the bullet and in the back of his head blowing out, but really it was more like the top of his head blowing off from this other thing happened. Pressure. Yeah, exactly.

If you've ever seen one of those videos where they do a slow mo of like either an egg getting shot with a bullet or some anything getting shot with a bullet, the you can see the way that it explodes is not what you expect. It's never just a clean in and out. It's like it gets hit and then there's the reverb and a fracturing and then like the weaker, usually top part just pops right off every time. Yeah, it's fucking nuts. But it's actually not just hospital hearsay that works against the official explanation.

There's also two motorcycle officers who were splattered with blood, even though they were positioned near the left rear flank of the president's vehicle at the time of the shooting, which, you know, if he was shot from behind you wouldn't expect the blood to go backwards. And the actual testimony of Sherry Feister, who is a certified senior crime scene investigator and court recognized expert in crime scene reconstruction and blood spatter analysis. That's blood splatter analysis, Jesus. She had this very clean, succinct interpretation of events after conducting her own independent investigation. And I'm going to have Jesse read that quote from her right now.

It's pretty nice and short and sweet. The head injury to President Kennedy was the result of a single gunshot fired from the front of the president. Just something to think about. That's the end of part one. Part two is called back and to the left. For this next one, I'm going to be talking about the famous Zapruder film, which if you don't know is a home movie that was taken by a regular dude called Abraham Zapruder, who was there that day just like a lot of people were there that day to see the president drive through the town.

Ended up with a video clip that remains the single best piece of primary source evidence about what went down that day. Exactly. Every single investigator uses this to like timestamp events because he got such a good sort of like a view of what was going on. There's like a million photographs that were like confirmed from this footage, stuff like that. So that's pretty cool. And then separate from that, you've probably heard the phrase back into the left before in reference to the JFK assassination. Mathis and Jesse were just joking about it a second ago, which I loved. But let me really quick explain to you exactly what that means back into the left.

In this clip that I'm going to show you in a second, you're going to see that the president's motorcade is coming down the street. And just for a moment, some sort of road sign passes between Kennedy and the camera. And when he comes out the other side, you're going to see the president holding his throat. According to the official story, this is because he had just been hit by the first shot, which likely severed his neck vertebrae. And shortly after you can see the killing shot hit. According to the official version of the events, this is a bullet that's hitting the president's skull from behind and blowing the top of his head off. Like I said, and yet according to the clip, when he gets hit by the bullet, his body seems to literally be falling backwards and to the left from the force of the shot, which makes it look like the shot was actually coming from the front.

So give me a look. Give me a look. Just look at that. Tell me what you guys think. I'm going to give you guys a link to it. It's a slow motion link from YouTube. You can easily Google this at home and use whatever version you want. Just try for his official version as you can find. It's kind of a snuff film, so like it literally shows a man being shot and killed so it gets taken down all the time.

But this is like a looping sort of. It's not looping. It's just you can see it's just a sort of very, very like slow mo version of it. Yeah. And it's edited so you can just see the exact part that I'm talking about. He goes behind the sign. When he comes out from behind the sign, he's been shot and then he gets shot again. You can kind of watch him go back to the left and tell me what you guys think. I don't know. I think he kind of does go back to the left,

but it doesn't seem like as forceful as it would if he, I think, I don't know. I'm not going to. It is questionable is what it is. What I, again, this is just from what I remember of knowing of it. So when his arms come up, it's just like you said, it's that first shot. And it's the one that's supposed to be like severing his spine. And if he had survived, he would have been paralyzed basically from the neck down. Just like the body's reaction of that first shot hitting is his arms stiffen.

They shoot up. And then the next shot, again, was the one that took him out is the one that blows his head off. Yeah. He doesn't. Yeah. He kind of goes to the left a little bit, but it's more of a, it just seems like a stiff body reaction. You can see Jackie Kennedy in the in the movie look reaching over and trying to put his hands down like she's reaching over and like, yeah, on his elbow.

Like put those down. He's just like stuck like that. Yeah, it's pretty. I mean, he wear, he wears like a brace all the time. Yeah. You have this like really bad pain all the time and stuff. And so there's some thought that maybe there was some sort of like physics reaction from the bullet doing something to that harness and like, you know,

but, but yeah, back into the left is in reference to this moment from the Zapruder film. And also here's a quote from a book written by Craig Roberts, who was a former U.S. Marine Corps sniper with years of real combat experience who also did his own independent investigation into the shooting. I'll have Mathis read this one for you. It's a little meaty. So there you go.

Some of the some of the supporters of the Warren Commission stated that the bullet came from the rear because the eruption of brain matter and blood came out of the front of the president's skull. I saw something else in a headshot. The exit wound due to the buildup of hydrostatic pressure explodes in a conical formation in the downrange direction of the bullet. Yet in the Zapruder film, I could plainly see that the eruption was not conical shape to the front of the limo, but instead was an explosion that

cast fragments both up and down in a vertical plane and side to side in a horizontal plane. There was only one explanation for this, an exploding or frangible bullet. Such a round, such a round explodes on impact in exactly the manner depicted in the film. Yeah, I'm not sure where those bullets would have come from, but I will tell you this much for sure. Mannlicher, carcano ammunition of the type used with Lee Harvey Oswald,

6.5 millimeter called carcano model 38 infantry carbine is not frangible, frangible, frangible, frangible. Make of that what you will. This next section incorporates fact three and fact four, and I have called it smoking grass. Okay, for this one, we're going to start with Jesse and Mathis reading a quick back and forth between an interviewer from the Warren Commission and officer Clyde Heygood, who was another motorcycle cop who was flanking

Kennedy's limousine that day. So I'm going to give you guys a little scene to read there. Okay. Let me just come to the top here. Good. Ready? I'm ready. I'm ready to take this on.

Scene. What did you do after you heard the sounds? I made the shift down to lower gear and went on the scene of the shooting. What do you mean by the scene of the shooting? I could see all these people laying on the ground there on Elm. Some of them were pointing back up the railroad yard and a couple of people were headed back up that way. And I immediately tried to jump to the north curb there in the 400 block,

which was too high for me to get over. What do you mean with your motorcycle? You mean your motorcycle? And I left my motor on the street and ran to the railroad yard. Did you see any people running away from there? No, they was all going to it. So if you haven't guessed it yet, the area up near the railroad yard is also popularly known today as the grassy knoll,

which is another term that has also sort of come to like describe the whole American conspiracy theory aesthetic that kind of spun out of JFK. You can almost call somebody like a grassy knoll type of guy and people will kind of know what you mean. It's kind of an important phrase, but here's a little background on why it's famous, what sort of doubt it might have cast on the story as people know it.

And yeah, that's what it means. It's just this area that's lower and off to the side. That's called the grassy knoll. Basically, though later, the official story stated that Oswald acted alone and that every shot fired that day came from the sixth floor window of the Texas School Book Depository above and behind the motorcade. In the moments immediately following the shooting, a lot more attention was directed towards the grassy knoll.

When special agent in charge forced sorals of the U.S. Secret Service, Dallas District, first heard gunshots from where he sat in the backseat next to the window, one car ahead of the president's limousine, he immediately looked towards the knoll, which was at the top of the terrace ahead of him and to the right, because that's where he heard multiple shots coming from. Secret Service agent Lem Johns from where he sat next to Vice President Johnson, two cars behind Kennedy,

putting him even closer to where the Depository would be, also heard the first two shots coming from the direction of the knoll next to the railroad yard. Officer Bobby Hargis, one of the rear left motorcycle cops who was hit with the impossible backwards blood splatter, also parked his bike and ran up towards the grassy knoll, because that's where he thought it was coming from.

And also the Dallas Chief of Police, Jesse Curry, said that he thought someone had fired from the grassy knoll from where he sat in the same car as Agent Sorals, one ahead of Kennedy. His immediate response was to grab the radio and send people up onto the triple underpass ahead of the motorcade, which literally is train tracks that connected directly to that same rail yard because he thought people were going to be trying to get out, get away over that bridge.

Also the Dallas County Sheriff, Bill Decker, was in that car and he also grabbed his radio and sent all his available men to the rail yard. So two different authorities double down on the same place. I'm interested to hear what you guys make of this, but before you get into it, here's a quick quote for Jesse to read from James Teague, who was an eyewitness to the assassination and notable because he's the only bystander there

who was known to have been wounded by gunfire that day when a piece of the curb, which was struck by one of Oswald's bullets, flew up and cut open his cheek. But here is a quote from him for Jesse to read. If you go back to Delaney Plaza, or Daily Plaza, is that how you say it, Daily Plaza? Daily, Daily. If you go back to Daily Plaza at 12.30

and get the photographs and police tapes, there's really no action taken on the school book depository for seven minutes. True, there were a couple of policemen who said they rushed in, which looks good on a sergeant's report, but it didn't happen that way. In those seven minutes, I think Oswald may have assisted in letting people into the building by saying they worked there or whatever. During that time, they could have moved an army in and out

of the Texas school book depository. So what do you guys think about that? What do you think about the fact that every like most of the authorities upon everything going down there first thing was like over there. Like literally the wrong place. Or maybe the right place. What do you think about that? I have many thoughts, but that's just because I don't know how detailed

you want to go yet, I guess is the question. Because I have thoughts like, for instance, I, to my understanding, again, it's been since I went really deep into JFK, probably close to a year. But while it's pretty fresh for me, so shoot. Yeah, I'm pretty sure like the Secret Service at the very least, his Secret Service were like completely hung over that day, like exhausted. They were. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's some there's some sort of like there's some accounts of that.

There's definitely at least some of them who were drinking and stuff. But at least from what the footage was, it's not like they're like whacked out of their minds, taking care of the president. No, no. But yeah, human human error is more apt to happen. True. When these people are not super people. Yeah. And to their credit, sometimes you just have to make a call.

You know, yeah. And I'm sure this is a panic moment. Yeah. In that in that time, I'm not saying a shot didn't come from the grassy knoll. In fact, I'm very open to the idea that a shot came from the grassy knoll. But I still hesitate to think that Oswald was an actual Patsy. Well, we'll see. Well, we'll see where we're at by the end of this episode.

We'll see. Uh, moving on to section five. This section is called Thomas and Gilberto. The tank engine. OK. Tomic. Thomas the Tank Angel. No, it's Thomas and Gilberto.

Now that we know about back to the left and grassy knoll and that there's some question as to exactly where these shots might have come from, according to various experts, all things that are pretty well known when it comes to JFK's conspiracies. Right. So now let's look at something a little bit less mainstream, but also kind of insane sounding that blew my mind. I did not know about this.

In April, 2022, just a couple of months ago, a man called Abraham W. Bolden senior was pardoned by President Biden during something called Second Chance Month and was one of the first three people pardoned by Biden during his presidency. However, while the other two people pardoned were brought up on drug charges and went on to become community leaders, and that was sort of the common thread that they had between them that got them pardoned. Bolden actually was the first ever black Secret Service agent to serve on the

presidential detail, which he did under John F. Kennedy. Bolden was convicted of federal bribery after being accused of trying to sell Secret Service intelligence after one trial with a hung jury and a second trial where key witnesses were caught lying at the prosecutor's request. That was his trials. He's also always maintained his innocence. And after serving 39 months in prison and 30 months probation sometime in the 60s, spent the rest of his career supervising quality control in the automotive

industry, speaking out against racism, the Secret Service, and in his community and just kind of being kind of like a socially conscious activist type cool guy. However, the reason that I'm mentioning him now is that in 2009, Bolden said in interviews that he was framed for bribery after trying to contact the Warren Commission regarding an earlier foiled attempt on President Kennedy's life in Chicago with eerily similar conditions to those seen in Dallas. And it happened just a few weeks before. Back on November 2nd, 1963, 20 days before his death, 20 days, not even three weeks.

President Kennedy was supposed to attend the Army Air Force football game at Soldier Field in Chicago. And to commemorate the occasion, he was meant to ride in a parade. There was even a route posted that went from O'Hare Airport to the loop. However, that same morning, a dishonorably discharged Marine marksman turned paranoid right wing anti-Kennedy radical called Thomas Arthur Valley, who apparently started working at IPP Lido plate, which is a warehouse building overlooking the most vulnerable part of the motorcade route.

He just started working there six months before. He was arrested after a tip came through on October 30th from the FBI stating that a four man team was targeting Kennedy in the motorcade with scoped rifles. On October 31st, a woman running a Chicago motel called the police reporting that four out of towners who she thought were Cuban nationals were renting a room and that she'd seen them with long rifles on the bed inside. Two men were detained the next day on November 1st and Valley was stopped at 9 a.m. on November 2nd, two hours before the fucking game for forgetting to signal

while making a turn in his car over near Wrigley Field. He had a knife on him, he had 750 rounds on him. They found two rifles and a handgun and 2,500 more rounds at his apartment nearby. And mysteriously, according to Bolden, the maybe Cuban guys from the motel were released without anyone keeping a record or following up on them or anything. And all records pertaining to the Chicago assassination plot were deliberately destroyed in 1995 after they were requested by the assassination records review board. However, while that does sound pretty convenient now, that's probably because

you don't know enough about Valley. Just like Lee Harvey Oswald, Thomas Arthur Valley also had three names. Just kidding. They both enlisted in the Marines at an early age and they were both stationed for a time in Japan before being called upon by the CIA for more discrete assignments. However, while Oswald defected to Russia and possibly served as a double agent, more on that later, Valley spent his time training anti-Castro Cubans on Long Island in New York. Both of these people were loners. Both of them owned long-range scoped rifles.

Both were trained marksmen. And soon after their stint with the military, both became extremely vocally outspoken political activists with a sort of unhinged outsider character to them, which, according to agent Bolden, made them perfect candidates for a fall guy. Anyway. Also, keep in mind, too, that, like, like you said, they wrote what's his name. Oswald was in the Marines and he was for my again, for my memory, he was like noted as like a pretty median shot. He was a certified marksman.

But he was a marksman. Yeah, he was a certified marksman. That's so like, and I know there's a lot of arguments about the rifle used, might not be good enough, but it's like, if you do your research, like, it was good enough to hit those distances. And it's important to know that this man did try to defect multiple times in his life that we'll talk about later. We'll get into it because it's he was also a horrible wife beater. It's pretty awful person.

There's a lot of information about Lee Harvey Oswald out there. And it's none of the thing that's crazy about this guy is that nothing is for sure with him. It's super crazy. Like the nature of his time in Russia is not even people don't even necessarily agree on whether that was his choice or that was his mission, for example. But yeah, it's pretty crazy. Anyway, Kennedy ended up catching wind of all this thanks to the Secret Service who according to Bolden convinced him to make up some excuse why he couldn't

attend the festivities that day so they wouldn't alarm the public with knowledge of something so scary. And also this isn't me trying to make a statement so much as I'm highlighting a suspicious coincidence. But the informant who gave the tip about the Cuban fanatics with sniper rifles came from an FBI informant known only as Lee. Finding your perfect home was hard. But thanks to Burrow, furnishing it has never been easier. Burrow's easy to assemble modular sofas and sectionals are made from premium,

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three weeks earlier? Well, I might say it's a stretch, except that apparently the exact same thing happened again in Tampa, Florida, two and a half weeks later in between. We can see from declassified congressional reports that on November 18th, which was just four days before he was shot and killed in Dallas, President Kennedy was made aware of yet another possible attempt on his life, which was meant to occur during yet another slow moving motorcade that he held in Tampa, Florida that day, involving a quote group of people,

which is literally the definition of a conspiracy, and specifically a quote mobile unidentified rifleman shooting from a window in a tall building with a high power rifle fitted to a scope. Here is a quote for Mathis to read from another JFK book, which is called Ultimate Sacrifice by Lamar Waldron and Tom Hartman that explains how weirdly similar all three of these events were. What made the attempts to kill JFK in Chicago and Tampa and later Dallas different from all previous threats was the involvement of Cuban suspects

and a possible Cuban agent in each area. In addition, these multi-person attempts were clearly not the work of the usual lone mentally ill person, but were clearly the result of coordinated planning. In both the Tampa and Dallas attempts, officials sought a young man in his early 20s, white and slender build, who had been in recent contact with a small pro Castro group called the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. In Dallas, that was Lee Harvey Oswald, but the Tampa person of interest was Gilberto Policarpo Lopez, who like Oswald was a former defector.

So three guys, all kind of the same guy, three different cities, the same plan, three different times. And again, just like Oswald and Lopez have more than just superficial similarities to one another, here's another quote from that book for Jesse to read, and then I want to hear what you guys think because it's too much. Like Oswald, Lopez was also of interest to Navy intelligence. Also similar to Oswald, Gilberto Lopez made a mysterious trip to Mexico City in the fall of 1963, attempting to get to Cuba.

Lopez even used the same border crossing as Oswald and government reports say both went one way by car, though neither man owned a car. Like Oswald Lopez had recently separated from his wife and had gotten into a fistfight in the summer of 1963 over supposedly pro Castro sympathies. Declassified war and commission and CIA documents confirm that Lopez, whose movements parallel Oswald in so many ways in 1963 was on a secret mission in quotes for the U.S. involving Cuba and operation. So secret that the CIA felt that protecting it was considered more important

than thoroughly investigating the JFK assassination. Yeah. What do you think of that? Have you heard of that? Have you heard of those guys? Have you heard of these things? Yes. And it always struck me as very weird that the government had four warning of multiple attempts and still they like getting your car, dude, have a good trip. It always struck me as weird. And I know it opens it up to conspiracy,

but I also have to wonder if it's also just like an ego man. Thank you. Yeah, you're getting to what I was going to get. It's just like that man. Nothing's going to happen to me. That man not only had an ego, but he had enemies everywhere. Yeah. Enemies in the government. Yeah, exactly because of his ego.

In fact, for Dallas, I believe they suggested he go in a like bulletproof plastic casing, but he said there's no point because then they can't see me. So no. Right. Going down an area where there was notoriously hard to keep like completely safe. I forget to call the kill box or something like that. Kill zone. Any assassination attempt is going to have one of those.

Yeah, exactly. It's just, it's, I do wonder if it's just one of those quote unquote coincidences where this man, so many people wanted to take attempts on his life that any, any opportunity to be in public and maybe make some plans to try and take him out were probably made. And it also the Lopez Oswald stuff. I would love to dig more deeper because it seems like, you know, on the surface when you see that, that meme that always floats around on the internet, that's like, did you know that JFK and Abraham Lincoln, that thing?

It feels very much like that. We're like, when he dig deep, you're like, oh, oh, that's just a meme and not actual fact. Yeah. But yeah, I know. I'm very curious. Yeah. I love that. I feel like you guys have my outline.

It's perfect that you guys brought up those points. Section 678 is called sitting ducks. So I don't know if you remember this from my official timeline back in episode 2022. But one of the things that I wanted to make sure and mention so you remember it right near the beginning was that very close to go time. The motorcade route President Kennedy took through Dallas was suddenly changed to something much longer and slower, which left him much more vulnerable. And apparently that was just the first of many weird security issues that experts identified that day, which is especially strange considering that the other two identical assassination threats they'd already dealt with that same month.

So in fact, here is a quote about it for Mathis to read from another retired Secret Service guy who attended to President Kennedy called Lynn Meredith. This is this is this is from Mathis. I have always believed that the following adverse situations all contributed to the unfortunate and unnecessary death of President Kennedy. No Secret Service agents riding on the rear of the limousine, inadequate security along the entire 10 mile motorcade route from the airport to downtown Dallas that day, particularly in the buildings along the route of travel. The motorcade route published several days in advance. Oh, that's right. I forgot about that, too, that they they literally published.

Like where you can see him. Yes, it makes sense. If you think about it, right, like you want to see the president is where you go. But like, I don't know, I don't think it's just it's just weird. Additionally, there was no military presence. Nobody looking at or thinking about open windows overlooking the route. The blood was washed out of the car before the president was even officially declared dead. The car, I think they got yelled at when they did by the people like you're ruining evidence, you're ruining evidence and they just didn't care. They didn't care.

The car was fully stripped and rebuilt by that Monday on the Davis State funeral. And in fact, Jesse Ventura, Governor Jesse, even goes as far as to name names for who is to blame for all these inadequacies. I'm certainly not going to do that just for the sake of it. But he also hints at a slightly more sinister conclusion as he explains that only one person that I will name a specific assistant Dallas police chief called George Lumpkin is maybe something. George Lumpkin. Yeah, apparently Lumpkin was also a colonel in army intelligence. And in addition to actually sitting in the front car of the motorcade himself on the day, he was also directly involved in the route change. He also ordered the Texas schoolbook depository sealed off in the aftermath of the shooting three, three minutes after the shots started being fired.

And he hand selected the Russian interpreter for Lee Harvey Oswald's Russian wife, Marina, when she was interrogated. And if you're having trouble imagining this level of coordination against the president from those so close to him, don't worry, because if I'm being 100 percent honest, I totally do too. However, that doesn't make me feel any better about these next two things I'm going to get into. First of all, I'm going to show you two pictures drawn by a dignitary protection expert called Al Carrier. So take a second, give it a look and let the people at home know what you're looking at. Let me see if I can get this to you somehow. Take a look. Are we going to take a moment while we do this?

Yeah. I would love to know because I feel like we jumped right into this. Yeah. Who shot JFK, but I'm curious if the Internet and if our listeners would be interested in like, who was JFK? What's the backstory? Do you have that coming? Yeah. Well, I mean, we're going to get into a lot of things about JFK, the president JFK, the man that maybe might have eventually led to somebody wanting to kill him for political reasons.

Perfect. But yeah, that's not today's episode one stopping. So yeah, I sent you this picture. It's in Twitter because I can't drop. I can't drop images into. So you're showing the picture on the left is three cars in like a triangle around the middle one of motorcycles. The second one is two vehicles with the like a strip of motorcycles in front of the in front of both cars and then four tailing behind the second car. Yes.

So the picture on the left shows the motorcycles arranged in what is known as the standard wedge formation. Al Carrier refers to this formation as the gold standard of motorcade protocol and goes out of his way to mention that it was still it was widely used back in the 60s by everyone, just as it is still used today. Sure. But you really don't need him to prove it because this was the exact formation that we know for sure. President Kennedy had utilized not only in Tampa four days before when there was an active threat on his life, but also during his very famous trip to West Berlin, which he had just made a few months earlier when he made one of his best known speeches. Ich bin ein Berliner. Also, by the way, sidebar, there is a weird urban legend that I've heard told to me as fact a couple times where people say that Kennedy was actually saying with that sentence that he was some kind of donut called a Berliner. And that he was too dumb to realize this and that Germany was laughing at him.

I'm going to tell you this right now that is literally just not true. And people in Berlin wouldn't call this thing a Berliner anyway, because they're already in Berlin. And now Jesse is going to try and read the name of this thing for you because Germany will forgive a man who's had no time to prepare. Jeez. Von Kuchen. Yep. That means pancakes. That's what that donut is called in Berlin.

Suck a dick. Anyway, the picture on your left is what everyone should be doing with their motorcycles from a good motorcycle, good motorcade security. That's the answer to how to do it with a motorcade. The picture on the right, however, is what formation the bikes were in in Dallas that day. And officially, the reason given for that was that Kennedy himself asked for it. This is something that you guys were talking about a second ago. Kennedy himself asked for it so that he could make sure he could effectively wave at everyone and be seen. That's kind of like what the story is.

In contrast to that, though, Vince Palomara, a civilian secret service expert whose research has been stored in the National Archives, the John F. Kennedy Presidential Library, the Harvard Library, and the Assassination Archives and Research Center, interviewed dozens of secret service agents who were there in Dallas that day. And I'm going to have Mathis read a quote from him about how likely that version of events sounds. Here we go. President Kennedy was very understanding about his protection and never ever interfered with secret service protection protocols. That was their job and he knew that and let them do it. He never told agents how to do their job and never ordered changes in motorcade formations or any other protection protocols.

Period. Yeah. And also, strangely, it seems that all these weird changes might not even have been present at other stages of the Texas trip and only when they got to Dallas. Here's a quote for Jesse from a congressional memo from the House Select Committee on Assassinations for you to read. Here we go. But in comparison with what the SS Secret Services own documents suggest with security precautions used in prior motorcades during the same Texas visit, the motorcade alteration in Dallas by the Secret Service may have been a unique occurrence. Yeah. And just to further illustrate how strange this was, I'm not even sure they every Secret Service agent was on the same page on the day. Because here is a clip that I'm about to show you of the president driving away from Dallas, like what's called Love Field in Dallas.

That's like one of the airports in Dallas, I think. Yeah, maybe. Which seems to show Secret Service agent Don Lawton being ordered off his post on the bumper of the presidential limousine by his White House Secret Service Detail Shift Leader, Emery Roberts. But what really makes this clip interesting to me is that it seems from his body language that he's not really sure why he's being told that. Try and give the people a play by play of what you're watching. The clip's going to loop a couple of times before it's done. So just let it play.

You'll see it. There's like one arrow pointing to the guy who jumps off the bumper and one arrow pointing to the guy who gives him the order. Just trying to describe it for the people who can't see it. I mean, that's just it right there. It's just like, you see them pulling away, JFK smiling and waving. Some guys jogging alongside the bumper and then a dude stands up. They have a quick conversation. The dude by the bumper throws his hands up and he looks, like you said, confused, kind of slaps them down.

Like, I don't know what's going on. And then they drive away. Yeah. So it's weird. Like even earlier in Texas, he had the thing that he's supposed to have. He's supposed to have all these guys around his car. But if you watch the Zapruder film, you'll see the amount of time that it takes for anybody to be on the president. It's like way too long for like what where they should have been, which was right next to him in a triangle.

You know, so yeah, it's interesting. Very weird. It's interesting to think. But even so, that's the end of this section. The next one goes into part nine, 10, 11 and 12. And I'm going to call them all together. Count the shots. Okay.

As you probably guessed from the title of this section, we're going to be talking about bullets. Namely, how many were there? Where were they going? Where were they coming from? So based off testimony from the special agent in charge of the White House Secret Service Detail, a guy called Roy Kellerman, who said that quote, a flurry of shells came into the car and that quote, there had to be more than three shots, gentlemen. This book establishes a scenario where rather than the three shots describing the official account of what happened that day,

there may have been up to six and possibly even nine, though I'm not even sure how they get to nine. First off, everyone agrees that the first shot that went out was a miss. The first one, even in the three shot theory. The first shot was a miss because we know this one was the one that caused the sparks that people saw on the street and was probably the same one that also hit the curb and sprayed the concrete up into the face of that guy, James Tague, that I was talking about earlier, who got some cuts on his on his cheek. One shot had to miss and it was pretty certainly the first one. Then it points to a bullet that hit President Kennedy in the back coming from the rear of the car to the right of his spine

and four inches below the bottom of his neck. For physical evidence of that bullet, he points to an entry hole found in President Kennedy's jacket as proof. Then, according to this version, comes a shot which went through the front windshield of the car, enters President Kennedy's throat from the front. This is different from the official version. Enteres Kennedy's throat from the front, creates an entry wound which was later used at Parkland Hospital to make a tracheotomy incision. Then, because Governor Connolly, who was in the car with Kennedy and also hit by gunfire, says he's positive that the first bullet that hit him was separate from the one that hit the President in the throat

because it only came after he turned to see him get shot. We can bring the count up to four bullets and then probably five, considering that it would take something like a quote magic bullet for a single rifle shot to come through his back, break his ribs, come out through his nipple, hit him in the wrist, and then embed itself in his left thigh. That is what the magic bullet is. If you ever hear anybody talk about a magic bullet in relation to the Kennedy assassination, this is it. And which Wayne Knight both helped explain in 1991's JFK by Oliver Stone and parody in 1992's The Boyfriend, which was an episode of Seinfeld.

We'll talk about that bullet later. But now we still haven't gotten to the headshot, which whether you believe it came from the back or the front makes it a clean six shots double what the official story says. Though for the record, this book's version of events does in fact say it came from the front, which is a fact that's bolstered by audio, which was heavily referenced during the 1976 House Select Committee on Assassinations investigation of the shooting by the U.S. House of Representatives. Apparently one of the Dallas police motorcycles that was on site that day had something called a dictabelt recorder on it, which for some reason while it was mounted there was accidentally left running in the on position for the entirety of the event

and recorded all this sound. And it led to a conclusion that more than three shots were fired and that some of the shots came from the rear and that some of the shots came from the direction of the grassy knoll. So that was a pretty crazy thing to happen in the 70s. The science of these conclusions was disproven and then reproven more than once. So it's hard to say exactly how compelling this evidence is. And you'll see with lots of evidence about this investigation as time goes on. But the investigation did conclude the one from 1976 did actually conclude that quote,

President John F. Kennedy was probably assassinated as the result of conspiracy and quote. So do with that information what you will. And what about the rifle? Can one guy really get off three shots in six seconds? Is that even reasonable? Is there even any way to prove that beyond getting the world's most legendary sniper, putting him on a perfectly recreated shooting range just to test it? But don't worry.

That's exactly who Carlos Hathcock was and exactly what Carlos Hathcock did. Carlos Hathcock had 93 confirmed kills in Vietnam and an estimated actual count of between 300 and 400 kills because a lot of the time you're not with anyone when you're a sniper. This man was definitely one of and possibly the most lethal sniper who ever lived. He also set a record for the longest sniper kill in 1967, which held for 35 years. I think it was something like a mile and a half, some crazy distance. And yeah, and he was literally the real dude who did the thing from movies that we do now where you shoot a sniper through their own scope.

He literally did that. He also had a variant of the Springfield M-21 rifle named after him using the nickname he was given by the Vietnamese forces White Feather, which he got after the single White Feather that he would tuck in his bush hat. And it got to be such a big deal that other snipers started using it as a symbol like the bat symbol to scare their enemies. That's hilarious. This guy is no fucking joke. That's crazy.

Anyway, here's a quote from Hathcock for Mathis to read when asked about his attempts to recreate those shots under similar conditions to Oswald at Marine Corps Base Quantico, where Hathcock was the senior instructor at the Top Gun of Sniper Schools, the U.S. Marine Corps Scout Sniper School. Here we go. Let me tell you what we did at Quantico. We reconstructed the whole thing, the angle, the range, the moving target,

the time limit, the obstacles, everything. I don't know how many times we tried it, but we couldn't duplicate what the Warren Commission said Oswald did. Now, if I can't do it, how in the world could a guy who was a non-Qual, a non-call? Non-Qual, non-Qualify. Oh, gotcha. Who was a non-Qual on the rifle range and later only qualified marksmen do it. Sorry.

Yeah. Oswald was a non-Qual and then he eventually came back and got marksmen, which to a the most lethal sniper in the world is baby stuff. Thanks to Talkspace for sponsoring today's episode. Using Talkspace feels a little like having a therapist in your pocket. That's why being able to reach out to my therapist or psychiatrist anytime from anywhere makes taking care of my mental health super easy. I'm more relaxed when I'm traveling, knowing if I need to talk to my therapist.

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Make sure to use code CHILL to get your $100 off your first month and show the support for our show. That's code CHILL at Talkspace.com. According to the professional assessment of more than one military combat sniper, this was a unprofessional choice of weapon for this task. The six floor window was a terrible choice of location. The they point to the doubt. Weirdly, they're like, actually, I would have snipe from there, which is like a fucked up thing to say, but it's true.

The Daltex building across the way would have been a much better place to shoot from. And the angle combined with the tree cover, walls, pipes would make this quote a virtually impossible shot for anyone besides a very, very good military sniper. In fact, according to this quote from the Warren Commission, which I'm going to have Jesse read now, Oswald didn't even have his rifle properly configured to fire with the telescopic sight. And this is not to say that he couldn't make this shot. It's to say that he couldn't do it in three shots within six seconds. That's the real rub of this.

The rifle couldn't be perfectly sighted in using the scope without installing two metal shims, which were not present when the rifle arrived for testing and were never found. He literally like there's like a backfire on this gun and all these problems with his gun unless you like put a special scope on it. And he just like didn't have that on it. So like that's another obstacle in the way of him actually making these shots. I'm not saying he didn't make the shots. I'm just saying there's a lot of obstacles to making the shots.

They also take issue with the timing of the shots from that position as it makes way more sense to shoot at something coming towards you rather than driving away from you. Right. But yeah, all this to say. That could also just be Oswald being an idiot. Could be. But I mean like if you ever talked to snipers just in general, and I'm not like a big I talked to snipers guy,

but I haven't seen plenty of interviews. You don't have like three best friend snipers. I did have a friend in high school who would wear his shades back, his Oakley's back around the back of his head, like a sniper. Like a sniper. Close it up. Honestly, you might as well know one.

He reminded me often. That's how snipers work. But no, any sniper that I've ever seen be interviewed at any point in time. They always are like the best place to snipe is in an area where the, the traffic, the thing you're trying to shoot is walking towards you. Yeah. It's the, it's you are, you'd be a fool to try to get something that's moving like side to side.

It just makes it 10 times harder and you can easily just angle yourself in a way that you make it an easy shot for you. Like why make it more stressful than it needs to be. Especially if you're a rifleman, like a marksman. Yeah. At the same time to be devil's advocate in terms of like why Oswald would choose there, he fucking worked there. He.

So it was just an easy place for him to be able to easily bring his rifle there for how long? Oh God, a couple months. Six months. Like not long. About as long as another guy in Chicago. But yeah, all this to say, if the official story is that Oswald was the lone shooter and that he acted by himself, there is at least some genuine doubt cast

on that premise by many legit people who have investigated it to the extent that it's worth mentioning in this conversation. Section 13 and 14 is called count the rifles. Another big problem. The average person as with this case is that because Oswald happened to be killed on live television shortly after his arrest and everything felt like pretty wrapped up and done with at that point, nobody ever really considers the fact that even if we do subscribe to the idea that this whole thing was carried out by

one guy, we don't really have a good way of proving for sure that Lee Harvey Oswald was the one who actually did it. It's all hearsay. Like nobody. There's no proof that he fired the gun, for example, right? As a matter of fact, here's a quote from Dallas police chief Jesse Curry again from Mathis Street, which lays it out pretty plain and simple here. But bingo.

There we go. We don't have any proof that Oswald fired the rifle and never did. Nobody's yet been able to put him in that in that building with a gun in his hand. Exactly. And in fact, there was another investigation by a firearms and ballistic expert who I'll mention for the sake of impartiality actually supports the magic bullet theory believes that it is true. A guy called Howard Donahue, who you might know of Mathis, he's kind of in some

of the books that you maybe were talking about when you were talking about your theory about this. He gives a whole list of reasons it couldn't have been Oswald up in that window. Some of the stuff he covered we've already gotten into, like how it's a really stupid tough shot. The angles are very extreme. President Kennedy's head wound looked more like the result of a hit from high velocity frangible ammo, that type of stuff.

But he also brings up some points we haven't really touched on yet, which I'll get into right now. Number one, the width of the rear head wound, according to chief autopsist, which is a word, Dr. James Humes was supposedly the entry point for a 6.5 millimeter carcano billet. That hole was only 6 millimeters wide, smaller than the width of the bullet, which doesn't really bode well. Also, no traces of blood or tissue were found, not even in the smallest grooves on fragments of this bullet, even though it supposedly passed through Kennedy's skull and brain

matter. No tissue, no blood found on the bullet at all. And one of these fragments, which was found deposited on the outer table of his skull on the back of his head, had not only ever been known to have deposited that sort of fragment on that part of a skull that it had passed through ever before in forensic science, but also did not appear to be from the same sort of Mannlicher carcano ammunition that Oswald was said to have used. So not only was it like dry and weird, it didn't even really seem to be from the same type

of bullet. Pretty crazy. Secondly, there were even more audio anomalies that supported an alternate timeline of events such as Agent Kellerman, who I mentioned before, being sure that he heard Kennedy say that he'd been shot way before Governor Connolly was hit, which is something I kind of talked about briefly, or the fact that many witnesses reported hearing two of the three supposed shots in extremely rapid succession, which would have been impossible on Oswald's old-fashioned bolt-action carcano rifle.

In fact, I have some quotes for you boys to read about these shots. The first one comes from Agent Kellerman and is from for Jesse to read. There you go. Let me give you an illustration. You have heard the sound barrier of a plane breaking the sound barrier bang bang. That is it. It was like a double bang bang bang. Yeah.

And next for Mathis is one from another Secret Service agent, a guy named George Hickey. Here you go. At the moment he was almost sitting erect, I heard two reports, which I thought were shots and that appeared to be, and that appeared to me completely different in sound than the first report, and were in such rapid succession that there seemed to be practically no time element between them. Yeah, exactly. And finally, one more for Jesse from SM Holland, who was a civilian who was watching the scene

from above on the overpass ahead of the motorcade and said he actually heard four shots and that the last two were close together but were from different sources. Here you go. Well, it would be like if you're firing a .38 pistol right beside a shotgun or a .45 right beside a shotgun. The third shot was not so loud. Yeah. So he's saying one was very quiet and weak and one was like, goodbye.

Not to mention, if you remember from the timeline, I said that Oswald walked into work that day with a big paper bag under his arm that he said held curtain rods. Don't worry. Just curtain rods into the book repository. It's got to hang. I got to hang curtain six floors up. I'll see you in a little bit. The reason that I said this was because that paper bag was corroborated by two witnesses,

Linny Mae Rindle, who saw Oswald at her house that morning hanging out with the other witness, her brother, Bewell Wesley Frazier, who worked with Oswald at the school book depository and drove him to work. Frazier said that the day before he'd given him a ride out to where Oswald's wife and kid lived in Irving to collect some curtain rods because Oswald kind of like lived in town for work and then would like go out to be with his family. So he got a ride there from Frazier the day before to get some curtain rods. And the next day when he saw him at work with the bag, which was about two feet long, two

feet long and six inches wide, that's what Oswald said was in it. He said curtain rods were in there. For some reason, the book goes into some weird thing about how it would be hard for Jesse Ventura to stick the gun up into his armpit while resting the other end of the gun in his palm. I don't really know what the fuck he was talking about. It doesn't make any sense. But I still thought it was interesting because the size of the bag seems way too small for

even a disassembled version of the rifle. Oswald denies bringing anything to work with him at all besides maybe his lunch that day and Warren Commission Exhibit 142, which is supposedly a brown paper bag that they found up near the window that Oswald was meant to have shot from is a much bigger bag and looks to be more than double the size of the one that Frazier said he saw in the car that had the curtain rods in it. So what do you think about that? Could Frazier have just been wrong in his prediction of how big the bag was?

The bag itself has been folded. Like, I want to go back to that double shot thing for a sec. Yeah. What? Does anyone try to like reverb slash echo? Yeah. In a corridor of like, if you're saying there was one shot and another shot and sounded quieter than the first shot, like could that not have if it was bang bang, could it not have been

the like sound wave ripple off the glass of surrounding buildings? I think I think it could have been. I think it would be pretty clear whether something was two gunshots or a neck, especially when the first one, especially when the first one is the quiet one and the second one is the loud one. You know what I mean? I am not like my personal theory is I think. I'll save it.

Right. Right. Right. I think it makes sense that there may have been shots from different places. Yes. Yes. I know what you're referencing and it's the same ballistic expert that is that I'm talking about right now who who weighed in on that theory.

But that's that. Now we're going to go to number 15, which is called prayer man and the Coke machine. Yep. But that's not the only major inconsistency about what went down in that schoolbook depository that day. And crazily enough, the most convincing one has a lot to do with the Coca Cola machine. President Kennedy was meant to have passed into the kill zone, the kill box at around 1225 p.m. on November 22nd, as his first appointment of the day was sent for just five minutes later

at 1235 minutes up the road. So we know for sure what time he was supposed to be there was 1225. But the motorcade did not enter Dealey Plaza until 1229. And according to agents, Kellerman and Greer and corroborated by a logged radio call that they made right that moment, the president was suddenly shot somewhere within the minute of 1230 p.m. Right on the dot. They called it out by looking at their watch immediately after it happened and called it

in right then. According to the Warren report, an officer, Marion Baker, who had heard the shots coming from the book depository window and immediately pulled up to the building and ran inside where he met the depository superintendent Roy truly in the entryway and headed up the stairs. They saw someone through a door near the second floor lunch room. And when he pushed through the door with a gun in his hand, he says he saw Oswald calmly walking away from him holding a bottle of Coke, quote, not out of breath or even startled. And when he told Oswald, quote, come back 90 seconds after the shots were heard above,

by the way, just 90 seconds, maybe 70 seconds. He did so without hesitation. Oswald just turned and came back before truly recognized him and sent him on his way like, oh, he works here. Don't worry about him. That's not the guy by 1232 at the latest two minutes at the latest to gel with the timing of the depository, which we know was sealed by most accounts at 1233 by Chief Lumpkin, who we said earlier, sealed this off out of nowhere.

Who, again, was singled out by Jesse Ventura in this book as one of a group of people who he blames for the president's death, just falling short of accusing them of conspiracy to murder, which is crazy to me. And he talks like shit on them and stuff too. It's crazy. This book is insane. According to according to Oswald's version of the events where he didn't just kill the president of the United States and was just a normal dude going to work that day like

a normal person. He told the FBI that he went for lunch right at noon, had lunch for a while, then went up to the second floor to grab a Coke from the machine, came back downstairs, saw the president pass by while he was on the first floor, started to head outside to watch the parade where he ran into Officer Baker and Superintendent truly in the hallway on the first floor before calmly showing a panicked quote, secret service agent where the phones were before walking out himself. I put secret service agent in quotes here because most people think this was probably

just a journalist lying so that they could get to a phone to start calling in their story. And indeed, there are two separate journalists who remember running into the building and doing something pretty similar to that, except they probably omitted the part where they lied about being a government agent to the FBI. But they didn't mention Oswald by name, but it does seem like there is the opposite side of that evidence to support that. So thank you for, you know, grain of salt. Strangely, this story was fully corroborated by a secretary who worked in the building

and knew Oswald, named Carolyn Arnold, who said she was waiting outside in front of the building to see the president when she saw him just inside the entrance to the building close to the front door at 1215 p.m., by which time, according to the Warren report, Oswald should have already been up in the nest assembling his rifle by 1215. However, even if Kennedy did pass into the kill zone, like he was supposed to at 1225 rather than 1230, it is possible that Oswald could have still made it up there, taken the shots if he was on the first floor at 1215. But then he could have, but then like it starts to get muddy there because then could he have

really completely hidden the gun in a way where they didn't find it for almost an hour, then made it all the way back down to a minimum of four floors, possibly even six floors to have that run in with Officer Baker less than two minutes after firing the shots. And then what about the fact that later, Carolyn Arnold said that she actually left at 1225, not 1215, and that she definitely saw Oswald in the second floor lunchroom and not down near the door like she said the first time. And what about the fact that this revised timeline is actually corroborated by two other depository employees, James Junior Jarman and Harold Norman, who also said that they

saw Oswald downstairs between 1220 and 1225. And if Oswald wasn't there between 1220 and 1225, why does Oswald's testimony also have himself saying that he saw those guys at that time? And what about the fact that Officer Baker's first version of his statement where he meets Oswald in the hallway like that places him on the third or fourth floor rather than the second floor? And why would he have described the man that he ran into as six years older than Oswald really was? He said the guy was 30 when the guy was when Oswald was 24 and 30 pounds heavier

than Oswald was. And why did he refer to Oswald as a man when he was literally when he was sitting there writing this version of events, this office, this police officer, the first time he was literally stuck in a room where between him and the door was cops literally interrogating Lee Harvey Oswald in the room with him. And he was like focused. He was like super focused on it because he couldn't get out of the room because he was like there was like a 12 hour interrogation that went on with Oswald and he was literally

like stuck next to him in the room writing his little account of meeting this dude. So even though the dude is sitting in the room, he doesn't mention Oswald by name, gives a wrong description of how he looks the first time that he writes that account of meeting this guy in the hallway. Pretty weird. Pretty weird stuff. I've got the quote from him right here. If you want to read it, Mathis, just tell me if this sounds, you know, imagine that

while he's writing this down, Lee Harvey Oswald is literally like in the room with him. Just getting interrogated and he's like, I don't know why I'm here. I didn't kill no president. I jumped off my motor and ran inside the building as I entered the door, I saw several people standing around. I asked these people where the stairs were, a man stepped forward and stated he was the building manager and that he would show me where the stairs were. As we reached the third or fourth floor, I saw a man walking away from the stairway.

I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, I know that man. He works here. I then turned the man loose and went on up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man, approximately 35, 9 in height, 165 pounds dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket. Yeah. That's that's that's the testimony.

And so there's even this possibility that Oswald told the story of running into the quote unquote secret service agent and this guy told the story of running into this guy in the stairway and then eventually the people questioning them conflated the stories and convinced the guy that he ran into Oswald in the hallway. Nobody knows. Nobody knows. That's what's so frustrating that like that's what makes JFK the JFK assassination so frustrating and so fascinating is that it's nearly mishandled on every level and every

step of the way. Something was fucked up. Somebody didn't do something wrong. Evidence was removed. The stories are conflated. And so it's just it's because the government refuses to publish everything that needs to be published and keeps a lot of shit secret. We were still left gas grasping for straws this far.

This far. Honestly, honestly, the timeline of what went down in the book depository from noon to 12 thirty three p.m. is just like so crazy that it's not even worth trying to pin one true series of events down until I just say what I think. Yeah. So for now, let's all just agree that there's a lot about it to doubt and a lot more to look into later specifically with that. And finally, before we wrap up this section, just to sort of drive home the level of real

doubt that there is around this, I just wanted to show you one last thing. Tell me what you guys think. Ten days after the shooting, a Dallas based associated press photographer called Ike Altijens, who happened to be present and taking pictures of the motorcade that day, became aware that a specific photograph that he'd taken, which can be confirmed cross check by the Zapruder film to have actually been taken within moments of Kennedy being shot in the head. It's a picture that happened at that.

And amazingly, it actually appears to show Lee Harvey Oswald standing outside on the steps of the schoolbook depository at the moment that the president is being shot. So just so you know, I'm not bullshitting first here as a link to the picture of Oswald that they have on Wikipedia. I'm sure you've seen this picture of him before. This is very is him and his cleft. Yeah, his little he's got such a look. Right.

It's like so weird that we all know what he looks like. He belongs squarely in his time era, 100 percent. And then here here is a picture of Altijens, like the most highly enhanced picture of that that there is highly enhanced. You have an original for this. It's just a really small. It's just really small. But on Twitter, I sent you guys the Altijens photo.

He's man on his man F in the in the photo. Yeah. Yeah, man, that looks like. I don't know. I think I've seen this. It's been a while. I mean, here's the thing. He certainly has the build and he has the big dopey ears.

The head shape. It's all there. He looks Balder, though. He does look Balder. He also has the look. And I'm going to be real honest of like every thin white dude who was ever photographed in the 1960s. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Exactly. Consider that he was, according to that Secret Service agent who got framed for bribery or whatever, that like that's exactly why they were looking for guys like this. It makes sense, right? Eventually, it was agreed that this man was not Oswald, but rather another dude who worked at the schoolbook depositary and looked exactly like Oswald called Billy Love Lady.

And here's a page of my God's a great name. Here's a picture. Here's like a page of info about him with some mug shots and stuff. And so you can see he's like Bizarro Oswald. It's fucking crazy. Here's the thing. When you see when you see Billy Love Lady and then you see that photo that you saw us, yeah, very clearly is him.

Once you see the is shot is like, oh, that guy is that dude. It's also just freaky how much this dude looks like Oswald, though. Like, you know, like a melted clay model way. Yeah. Again, it's that there was a style of the time. I love again, that man's last name. You know, he'll give you the best 30 minutes of your life, and then you'll never see him again. What? Yeah, exactly.

Billy Love Lady is not a 30 minute man. Billy Love Lady is an all night. No, I think you give yourself the last name. Love Lady, because you need to compensate for the short amount of time. I think it was born into it. Is that why your name is Jesse Cox? Just like someone who'd be named Smith or someone who'd be named, I don't know, Farmer.

It's your job. I was. Yeah, it was my family's job for generations. I love we're doing. I love that. Yeah, we know we're doing. And with that, we come to the end of the first part of the first episode in my fairly ongoing series about the assassination of our 35th president. And I'll be back next time with even more of episode one

and even more reasons why the official story doesn't make sense. Next time on patreon.com slash to the money pod and everywhere else podcasts are available. But before I go, I want to ask where are your guys's heads at right now? Like how much of this is new information? How much of this is a rehash? Do you genuinely think that Oswald was acting alone and that that's like a feasible thing that happened here?

OK, so I don't think I learned anything new, but there was a lot of reminders of things that I kind of like forgot about. And I'm still on the fence and not on fence. I'm still pretty convinced there were multiple shots. And again, you know, not even going into shooters. Yeah, multiple shooters, sorry, multiple shooters. And again, not going into detail, but as we said at the beginning of this episode, JFK had a bajillion enemies and any opportunity was going to be taken

if they had the chance, I think we're going to be getting into a lot of those enemies as we go on. But I also think Oswald, you know, if we ever dive deep into who Oswald was, I think you just learned that, yeah, Oswald was capable of doing this on his own. The man was there's so much about that guy that just points to him moving in this direction for, you know, his whole life. The many, many times how he would say to his wife or to his mom how he was going to be like, you know, influential or like this very powerful man

stuff, and he was a crazy dude. He tried to, you know, there are records that he was in Russia. Granted, like you said, he definitely was there. He definitely was there and what witnesses that we have of who saw him said he was basically trying to defect, but he had nothing of value. There was they let him for the they let him in there for a little while. I was like a trial to see if he ever came up with anything valuable. And all he did was live a boring Soviet life.

So I'm like speculation that like. Nobody really wanted anything from him, but like the military was like, this guy's dumb as hell, we're going to send him to Russia, our military. And they're like, hey, yeah, you can go over there, but you got to tell us what you find over there and then Russia sit in there. Like, why are they sitting in this American to us? Like, maybe we can get something out of this. Let's let him come and just see if we can turn him to our side or something.

Like it could be just that. It could be just like some dookie boo boo stuff that sucks. That's literally just a bunch of guys. I think. To wrap up my point, I guess, is like, yeah, I think it's all of all was capable of taking these actions alone. I think he was definitely that kind of person. I lean toward he was acting alone, but there was other factors involved. But I can't say 100 percent.

So it's tough. I think he is primed. And you even said like he wanted to make something of himself. And I think he's primed to be recruited by people. I have no idea what the answer to any of this is. That's right. He's so susceptible to being a patsy and to being an outsider. Yeah. Yeah. They gave him a purpose.

And I I don't know if there's like like what the true answer is. But I have always been a fan of like a lot, you know, when they say like, oh, it was the mob or it was the government or it was like this and this. I'm always been a big fan of like every one of them. They like had one of those like Simpsons ask. Mr. Burns meets all the other people in the room, meaning they were just like, let's end this fool. That's that's how I imagine it.

Because the dude enemy of my enemy, man, I can imagine all sorts of people getting together and be like, this guy's got to go. Kind of riding on the coattails of a real assassination attempt by a real outsider, crazy person and kind of like owning it, though, as like a government group and kind of like giving it a little alley up at the end. You know what I mean? Like that could be what it is. Who knows? I mean, most and what's fascinating about this.

And I think it as a like big historian, when you look at lone shooters, they are at least in more modern history due to walk up and just shoot you. Yeah. They don't there's they don't snipe. They don't do any of that stuff that like the whole sniper and knowing where to be and all and the fact that there's like previous days of like, well, it could have been that day. Those kinds of things speak to something bigger than just, you know,

like Garfield and Reagan and like just like when dudes got shot. They like a guy walked up and just popped them. Yeah. And that's what like that lone shooter mentality is. Like, I don't need to hide in a top of a building and sniper guy. I'm shoot. I want you to know that I've shot you. Right. But also he did try and see General or General Walker by sniping. There was going next is like he did try this first. He tried to kill, like you said, Edwin Walker on April 10th of 1963.

He missed, but he did the same thing where he perched up. With his sniper rifle, took a shot, went through the window, missed, and then didn't take another shot. He picked up his gun and ran and he had to like bury the gun or wherever it was. Like, so there's there's precedent for Oswald trying to make waves with assassination sniper attempts. His failure. And I think that's the interesting thing is his failure is a great like, OK, so he booked it and ran, but we know he has the balls to take the first

shot. So if we convince this goober to take the first shot, we'll handle the rest. Doesn't matter if he hits him or not. Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't matter. He and then would point everything to him. Like it again, it's one of the things we'll ever have an answer. But like it is fascinating to think about just like all the weird pieces that just don't make sense. Yeah, there's clearly stuff missing and how I remember when I was a kid, they were like, when everyone involved in the investigation is dead,

we will release the information and that is BS. We are still waiting on that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I'll tell you this. If you want something, if you like that line of thinking, I recommend the fiction book Libra by Don DeLillo. It's a very well researched fiction. It's kind of like he made it fiction so that he didn't have to say it's a book about the JFK assassinations or something like that.

But it's kind of like his take, maybe, on how it went down. Right. It's supposed to be a resource for history purposes, but it's just a good read if you're interested in this subject matter. And finally, just to wrap things up today, I have just one last quote for Jesse to read to give you guys an idea of what is coming in the future. Here you go. Oh, boy. Oh, man. The evil one can often hear that which passes between us.

I had the power to prevent this, but he never knew. But as I speak to you now, we are cloaked and screened from his senses at the place of darkness. There exists a great force, so terrible that for centuries, none of us dared to release it. No one has the power to control it or direct it. The Mio Nia Mio Nia stone holds the key to this. Alex, the green stone.

Wait a minute. What is this? The dark gate can be opened since the force released from the place of darkness cannot be directed to destroy the evil one. He must be lured there in order to be destroyed. There is a way to make him come. Anyway, baby, we'll see you guys later. Thank you guys for being here for part one of the J.R.K. episode part one. Part one of episode one.

Thank you guys. There's going to be more next time. We'll see you guys later. Patreon.com slash shilluminati pod. Bye. I can't believe you. Anyway, me and my wife were sitting outside indulging on our porch one night, enjoying ourselves. I needed to go to the bathroom, so I stepped back inside.

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