Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 173 - Jeffrey Dahmer Part 1 - Lil' Jeffy and his Many Red Flags

Episode Date: October 8, 2022

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Fishmen pulled a body out of the lake. Did they know who it is? Freeform's Cruel Summer is back with a new season and a new mystery. People are gonna start asking questions. We have to get our stories straight. From executive producer Jessica Beall The girls are hiding something.

Nothing stays secret in this town for long. There are two sides. How far do I need to go to prove my loyalty to you? This whole thing was your idea! Do every secret. I need to know what happened. And what if you don't like what you hear? Freeform's Cruel Summer.

New episodes Tuesdays. Dream on Hulu. Hello everybody and welcome back to the Jaluminati podcast episode 173. As always on one of your hosts Mike Martin. Joined by the Tom Hanks and that dog from Turner and Hooch of LA. Hooch!

Jesse and Alex. Hooch! What? Isn't the dog called Hooch? Yes. The dog from Turner and Hooch. Hooch. Yeah and he's saying that one of us is Turner.

One of us is Hooch. Based on names alone. I don't think I could be a Hooch. Why not? I think Alex is the Hooch. What's wrong with you being Hooch? I think you're more of a Hooch. I'm Hoochie.

Could I pull off Hooch? No. You could pull off Hooch. How does he get Hooch? He ends up with the Hooch. I don't even think I could pull off Turner. Isn't he a cop? Yeah.

Yeah I don't know about this. What's the one with the monkey? Mathis which one of us is the fucking dog? I've never seen the movie so I don't know. Yeah that's fine. I'm going to go Jesse then. Jesse's the dog. I'm the dog?

Damn. You're Hooch. You're Hooch dude. I'm no Hooch. I'm no Hooch. I'm no Hooch. I'm no Hooch. I can't live.

What do you mean the one with the monkey? There's one with the monkey. Is that BJ and the bear? Is that that one? BJ and the bear. Oh we brought, didn't we bring that up in our Ed Boone series? Like the monkey shit. Also Turner and Hooch is like young attractive Tom Hanks

and the ugliest dog I've ever seen. The ugliest saddest dog. That's literally the movie. That's the movie. You just pitched the movie just now. Handsome young Tom Hanks. And the ugliest dog you've ever seen. Fresh off of mazes and monsters.

They also remade the movie which is just the worst thing I've ever seen. No isn't it? Isn't it a show? Yes they remade it with that guy from… Drinking Josh or whatever that show. Yes yes. The one that wasn't a criminal. Drinking Josh.

What? What? Yeah. Turner and Hooch really? They remade it? The Turner and Hooch Rebooch baby. The Rebooch? Get out of here.

The Rebooch. The Rebooch. Disney's Turner and Hooch. Being a child star does it to you man. Yeah. That's called druggies. What? I didn't know that.

You know I do lots of it. I am a drug omancer. Actually that's probably not true. I'm looking at it now. His normal photos look great but the stock photo of him they used for the new Turner and Hooch movie. He just looks sad. He's just like it's for the paycheck.

But his normal photos I'm looking at him. He seems like a normal looking dude although that could be editing. But you'd imagine they'd edit the posters whatever. Why are we talking about this? Because he's married with a kid. What is going on? You know what we should talk about instead? Patreon.com.

There you go. Save us. You know what? Let me tell you something about Patreon.com. It is a fine place to go. Thank you for that. Four? For all kinds of stuff.

Like what? If you want to go there, listen. If you're begging me to tell them I guess I must. I'm so begging you. I tried to reel it in but you know what? I'm begging. Please. You know what?

Minisodes. You get ad free episodes. You get art. You get presale. What kind of place isn't it? You know what else? Rotten popcorn just came out. And it's our new show all about movies where we watch really strange movies.

I'm going to say something though. Real talk. The movie that we watched recently was called Running with the Devil. It's on Netflix. That shit was nuts. Yeah. Fucking insane movie. Love every minute of it.

Maybe. God man. That had me on the edge of my seat from start to finish. And the way that documentary ends is unfair. I don't say anything. It's great. It's the newest rotten popcorn up on Patreon. But that movie ends and I think I screamed.

Like that was insane. That whole fucking thing was nuts. If you don't sign up for the Patreon, you can get that episode of Rotten Popcorn sometime in the very distant future. About six months. Yeah. But hey, another one just came out if you are not on Patreon and it's the one where we watch the original Zach Baggins masterpiece.

My goodness. That's for everyone. That's all right. You already have that. You're welcome. That's out right now. Thanks to patreon.com. That was another good one though.

That documentary was another good choice. The Ghost Hunters one. The Ghost Adventures rather. It riled me just the right amount. Yeah. Yep. They also need to go one place else, Alex. Oh yeah.

Is that right? Is it Los Angeles, California to see us in real life and go buy your six for a dollar or whatever it is? Glow in the dark vampire fangs at Target so you can put them in for Alex's big smile. All six fangs. Like some sort of shark. Put them in your mouth. Put them in your eyeballs like that dude from the Sandman.

Put them in your ears. You know. You have two little hands. Hand. I want to take a picture of the whole crowd with them smiling teeth because now this stupid random thing you said off like the top of your head in one episode. What's fault is it really? Nobody knows.

Yours. Mine. Fall. Maybe not. Maybe. I'm going to have to before the show starts. I'm going to have to check and make sure everyone has their teeth in. So.

Are we going to bring extra teeth? Just to be safe. At the door kisses to make sure everyone's teeth are in. Open mouth kisses though because you have to see. I got to put my tongue in there to make sure the teeth. Right. Right. Right.

Right. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think this is a funny thing. This is a funny thing. I am not going to be tested with my tongue. This is called the chili manari presents the big smile.

No. Alex's big smile. Yeah. This is Alex Faustiani presents. The Alex Big Smile at the Alex show live. Alex. I'm a little confusing I think for the people. No.

No. Not confusing at all. All right. Well, come to that chili manari pod.com. Buy your tickets now. They're great. Like just like a frosted flakes. I do like frosted flakes. Yeah, they're work. What's your favorite cereal? What's my favorite health favorite cereal? Don't worry about health my favorites my favorite cereal. Yeah killers

Boys after what was actually a bit of a bigger break than I expected from true crime looking at aliens cryptids Historical mysteries all kinds of good stuff weed. Is that what you said? Feet? Feet yeah big feet and I was like, what do you mean when we were examining weed? Dude, I've been examining weed for the last 15 years, bro But with all that said it's finally time to return to true crime because 2022 is the year of true crime if you forgot so With my continuing journey to broaden your knowledge of these things even if it's unwillingly at this point I want to continue hitting the what I would consider

The the like classics of serial killer the thing that sits in pop culture The ones that sit in pop culture the most much like John Wayne Gacy Today's topic the focus is one that I'm absolutely certain the both of you and probably the majority if not every listener Knows about and that's Jeffrey Dahmer. I mean even if you hadn't heard of him before it's very likely that you have heard of him recently Yeah, because there's literally Just like what last week the week before they launched the Dahmer Netflix show. Yeah. Yes. It's like a huge thing Everybody's talking about it. I keep hearing people talk about it like

In the wild like I'm standing there having coffee and two people are like, oh my god. Have you watched Dahmer? Like yeah, apparently it's like really really good. I haven't watched it yet I plan on watching it between this episode or next episode because it really wasn't necessary for this episode But I'm interested to see what they do with like how much fiction they throw in or how really close to the actual truth The the whole show goes I'm excited to watch it. Yeah, I haven't watched it yet, but I'm interested to have this I've been purposely waiting Because I know this is gonna be more Fact-based

And then I'm gonna watch that afterwards and see what's the vibe it Yeah, yeah Well, I'm sure like you said the both of you kind of know the basic story Dahmer in his little apartment where he brutally killed and tortured 17 victims while dabbling in cannibalism It's kind of like the meat and potatoes of what people know about it But much like gacy there's like there's a whole lot more To the story and Dahmer in many ways Stands apart from so many of the other serial killers that we've covered and will cover on the show

So if you got your we should make these serial killer bingo cards, we really should make some I feel like it would be a great idea You know get those ready because I'm curious how many of the the boxes will actually check off with Dahmer And as always is the case the series isn't here to glorify or add to the myth of Dahmer and his horrible crimes Instead, it's more of a deeper look into the actual story See who he actually was and lay bare the fact that this man no matter how he may have seemed on the outside Is and was a terrible person who should have been arrested much sooner than he was And in that that we get to examine once again

The failure of the police due to whom the victims ended up being Also known as the lesser dead, but we talk again much more about that in the second and if you don't believe us Just wait to hear how many times me and jesse go man during this Yeah, I mean exactly that i'm already feeling that you kid when you the many you bring up the police I had two thoughts one. I was like it's always The police who were like I guess we'll let them go

But then I also had the thought that Is that because these cases are so rare That we focus on that part rather than maybe the other times where the police catch the guy Before it becomes a serial killer, but no because at least not in this story. No, sure. Sure. It's just one of those things I keep thinking i'm like trying to like come up with a reasoning before i'm like They did it again. They screwed up again. They're just terrible at it Off the top of my head. I can think of three distinct instances. They could have stopped him so much early on where they had Enough evidence and reason to do so and then did not

But again, that's something we will be then that's the point of this, you know, we're gonna be looking Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be super fun. I can't wait. Um It's it's just the uh, we'll be examining that police failure further What makes dom are so fascinating as a serial killer is how many of us can kind of see ourselves in younger dom Is social awkwardness his very deep loneliness The difference is that we don't all go off and become horrible fucking serial killers to cope with our own issues It's also the reason I think and believe the dommer story is one that's so often told and retold over the decades As jesse just said netflix just released another dommer story onto onto their service a week ago to join the

Dozens of others out there that have kind of come out over the the decades At simply safe we know during a break in every second counts So our home security system is powered by 24 seven professional monitoring agents who use fast protect technology Only from simply saying to capture video evidence and verify a threat for fast police response Now install simply save your way do it yourself or have an expert set it up for you with new pro install Get 20 off any new system with fast protect monitoring at simply safe.com slash spotify. There's no safe Blake simply safe Any hour services has a team of technicians that can take care of any plumbing electrical or air conditioning needs

You might have around your house got a drain that's clogged call any hour services Need a ceiling fan installed call any hour services air conditioner not working call any hour services maintenance repair or install Any job any size any hour services mention this ad and take 50 bucks off your next visit Call any hour services or schedule online at any hour services dot com No one helps more homeowners than any hour services Even to this day he's a fascinating person to kind of look at as a study as he bucks So many of the trends that serial killers tend to fall into and in in that he kind of becomes easier to empathize with On a surface level, but that's not who he truly was

Deep down like so many of the others Dahmer was a monster not worthy of any sympathy whatsoever He much like many other serial killers was just excellent at putting on an act So with all of that said a quick shout out to our primary source for this specific episode The book called The Shrine of Jeffrey Dahmer written by Brian Masters. This thing came out in 1993. It's a it's just a very good Like solid true crime read of an examination of the crimes and his family and kind of where he came from um, and I wholly recommend picking it up for yourself if you can get a copy of it You can get a uh, uh soft cover copy of it really cheap and easy the hardcover copies are way more expensive And harder to find but if you want to read I definitely recommend it

Um as is always the case with any of the serial killers we do we're not going to start this story off with Dahmer himself, but With with his parents as we typically have in the past Married on august 22nd 1959 Lionel Herbert Dahmer and Annette Joyce Flint had hoped for a new life together after a short period of dating Both of them. However, as we'll find out we're far from a good match Lionel was glued to his work as a chemist paying little attention to his new wife and spending most of his time within the labs doing work While Joyce on all accounts seemed to be a what you would consider either a textbook narcissist or a a textbook It's someone whose textbook the insecurity rules their life

Her own father was a detached alcoholic and Joyce would go on to say that even as a child She feared complete abandonment So in that she was very demanding and needy of her husband's time And Lionel was not really willing to bear that much free time in the first place Which of course would immediately lead to argument after argument and a tense marriage from the start Shortly after being married though Joyce and Lionel would find themselves pregnant with their first child The pregnancy would be very rough for Joyce finding herself bedridden and from February to March With nausea and was forced to quit her job as a consequence of how sick the pregnancy made her

As the pregnancy wore on her muscles would contract and tighten Eventually tightening so bad and causing such severe pain that their doctor doctor dean spires I love that name decided to give her a muscle relaxing injection Um, this is in 19. There were like 1959 1960 at this point So like yeah, you basically had to give her a muscle relaxing injection and because her all her muscles were just like Completely contracted all the time Joyce yeah, it's really weird. I'd never I've never heard of anything like that happening If any of you listeners out there have known or family members or have experienced something like that

I'm curious how common it is like that Through the pregnancy your muscles just get Tight it seems awful. Did they mention like all of her her whole body? They just said her muscles so they didn't really specify as to like What it was where on her body just that her muscles would tighten and cause pain I would imagine it was probably stomach muscles, you know, it would be my guess So one time when I was in high school I was in a play and I don't know why

This lady told me this maybe I've said this on the show before I can't remember But she was like this so far sounds unique. I've never run. She was like sewing up my costume or something While I was wearing it. She was like making it fit my like my like arms or something, right? And she was like telling me about when she had her daughter And she was like, oh man, it was crazy. I was throwing up my own shit. I was squeezing my muscles so hard Oh god, why would she know you this lady not really not really? But I was like, whoa, that's really interesting. Like I did like I don't know I don't know why that's like what she decided to tell me

Jesus, but I was like that's a random thing to just share with a child I never forgot that. I mean, I was like 17 or something when I heard that but it just okay I old enough to hear it. I guess Yeah, like so maybe those my muscles can squeeze pretty hard. I don't know Yeah, I mean clearly clearly. Well, thank you for that. Alex. I do not feel further educated in in pregnancy Um, so joy's having a rather Rough pregnancy was open to complaining quite a bit. She would bitch about how loud their neighbors were Uh, they lived in an apartment complex

He would she would say hearing people's pots and pans became intolerable to her and she would berate Lionel so much So for all of this that he eventually just gave up and boxed up all their belongings and moved them in with his family member Catherine Dahmer with his wife who was at that point now seven months pregnant with their first child the Dahmer family The Dahmer family. Yeah, it's kind of kind of weird to hear it in a context that it doesn't evolve him, right? Um, yeah, so yeah seven months in he just with the pregnancy He just gave up quit the apartment and moved in with this family just because she would not stop Bitching every single day, but luckily for joy's on May 21st 1960 Her pregnancy would finally come to an end as Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer was born at the evangelical deaconess hospital in Milwaukee

And for the first time in their marriage already you're like I see it both of them took a big breath I'm thinking to myself man. Jeffrey Dahmer was born, man Oh man That guy sucks, man. Oh, he does. I don't want him to be alive in this story. Oh Well, it'll be interesting because little Jeffrey Dahmer is very different from The Jeffrey Dahmer that kind of he turns into at age 14 Little Jeffrey Dahmer is the worst character on Muppet babies. You already pitched a show like you just say the words Little Jeffrey Dahmer

I've got a great idea for a prequel sequel. Okay, he's got the little Stewie Griffin like uh like Uh little Jeffrey Dahmer. All right. All right. We'll work on that. We can twirl it for a little bit Little Jeffrey Dahmer. I can't now I hear like the Muppet babies theme song in my head Yeah, it's there. Oh god Well with Dahmer now born for the first time in their marriage Having Jeffrey seemed to bring a bit of peace about the house and family Almost as if they're issues with one another went on pause

Joy started to scrapbook marking every little advancement her kid had and Lionel seemed less attached to his work as they were more Entranced by their new son. Imagine how fucked up your life is if Jeffrey Dahmer showing up calms you down Like imagine giving him birth and he's just emotionless as he's born not crying He's just staring at the doctor dead in the eyes But yeah, like uh that first year genuinely seemingly seemed to be like a normal Year of life for them But eventually the magic of a new baby would wear off kind of like honeymoon phase with the kid, I guess Uh slowly but surely Lionel found himself at the labs more and more while the demanding schedule of being a mother took its toll on Joyce

Driving her into nervous breakdowns and anxiety attacks She was so fed up with the the demanding schedule of being a mother and feeding her own kid That she bound her breasts and no longer allowed her infant child to feed from her Which caused a huge argument between her and Lionel Yeah, she just was like no more no more titties for you Jeff. You're done And he was not even a year old like he was still that's like if there was like three more rows of bingo That might be on the list, but yeah, I I feel like this is one of those we just like

Scratch the surface just a little bit because the idea that person would be like Time to bind my boobs It's like a like that's a whole other thing Right like that isn't you just don't do that because like stop I would rather you not milk of me anymore That seems like a whole other thing. I wasn't aware of it as a thing if it was a thing before this Well, now you know she did it and that's where My my question between whether she's just simply insecure or she's insecure and a narcissist Is is like

Where where kind of I struggle it was you know as an example after they had an argument about her no longer allowing You know her son to feed from her Joyce after the argument simply walked out the front door and left And she did not return until Lionel went out and found her laying in a nearby field of tall grass in her nightgown So much she she was so defiant and apparently through such a fit that her own doctor Scolded her for her behavior What like the yeah, dr. Dean spires scolded her for being so Impetulent just like being a kid and there's another example

This is well where they had a huge argument at night her and her husband This actually happened before Jeff was born early in the marriage and the argument after the argument She stormed off in her nightgown again at night with nothing on her feet hands And it was sleeting outside and she walked to the nearby park and sat down on a bench While sleet came down from outside in the in the freezing cold until Lionel came and got her That was the only way she would go and so just sat outside and just Bared terrible weather for the sake of proving a point. It seems like Um, I don't know but again, it did that's like narcissistic behavior very brontean

Um eventually however They would have to move out of their family members home and back into a place of their own And so they got another apartment back in Milwaukee Lionel was now working toward his master's degree in analytical chemistry and And the move made sure he was closer to campus so he could continue his school Also, he was working full-time at the labs as well. So he was very unavailable Even if Joyce hated the idea she had no choice but to move with him sick and once moved in And once moved in Joyce once again

Did the complain every day about the neighbors the noise the pots and pans the footsteps Anything and everything that could be heard. She made sure to inform Lionel how much she hated the house of us sure However on the flip side and this is where that narcissistic manipulation angle kind of comes in Joyce was also keeping the apartment Absolutely spotless and consistently sought reassurance from Lionel that she was doing a good job and that she was loved So she you know, she's like bitching at him about all these things but at the same time Being housewife and trying to be great and all this other stuff You know and Jeff at this point is only about two years old

You know, so it's just like it's a weird household. Jesse you look like you're about to say nothing I would just like to preempt the internet by saying uh Mathis has used the word bitching as a term of complaining and not saying in fact That the mother was a bitch. I bitch all the time. Like I I just just putting it out there I don't want anyone to be like what is mathis implying about this woman. Just let it out there I just use bitching as an adjective to complain The the internet it's what I do for a living. Oh, yeah, you gotta make now. I'm like

I definitely use bitching in other ways before like that. I'm sure of it like that I don't know. It was the first time I've heard this. I feel like you've got it in for her I don't even know this woman yet. It seems like no, you've got it in for the mother and the father are equally terrible people for Totally different reasons. I promise you didn't say the father was bitching mathis. Oh, we're gonna get to what the father is doing in a second Don't you worry? It's coming It's coming nice So yeah, she went like out into the and again that just seems like a very insecure thing to do at the very least that That need that to see that she's wanted and desired that he'll come chase after her

No matter how bad the weather is she'll endure it if it means seeing that he'll physically come And get her and shows that he cares. It's it's you know that It's just fascinating to look at it. And you know all this while Jeff being two he's he's soaking all he's this is all soaking into his brain One way or another because they're constantly fighting at home and it's not like a peaceful house at this point anymore So, uh, after they all moved out and they moved into the new area again It was a new apartment. She kept the house all all super clean and all that Little jeff little jeffrey will call him little jeffrey little jeffrey

Little jeffrey was about two years old at this point and had already begun showing a big interest in animals Little jeffrey big animals Little jeffrey little jeffrey and his big animals He had a pet turtle that he cared for greatly that his mother said quote He handled with such love and care and now at this point they got him a pet dog to keep him company While you know at the house since he didn't really have that much of us. They didn't really go out or anything like that the small but the small comfort of the Of that the apartment had afforded the family would be yanked up again just two years later when lionel finishes his degree

And took a job at the iowa state university But this time it was no apartment They were actually going to move into their very first house in aims and eventually jeff even in that house out in the Which was out near nature had a little bit of woods near it Being such a fan of animals. There's pictures of him and his mother Where he had befriended a wild squirrel that would come to his bedroom windowsill and he would feed it food and stuff and eventually he was able to pet it and kind of like

Connected with this little wild squirrel that would come by every day to hang out with him for a little bit and get food What kind of cute? Yeah, he there's a picture and there's a picture of him and his mother feeding the squirrel out there Why do I feel like you're like checkoffs gunning me for like horrific things that are about to happen? What horrible okay, so what gun did I put down what horrible thing are you expecting now like a brutally mutilated squirrel? Yeah, yes. All right. We'll see what happens. I can't spoil anything. We'll see what happens Um, yeah, but jeff for the first time was surrounded by natures and woods And he quickly took to exploring the nearby area with this pet dog

Just under a year after moving things would take a rough turn for jeff. However in 1963 Jeff began to complain of stomach pains beyond that of just like a normal stomach ache or gas Eventually four-year-old jeff dumber had to be brought to the hospital to have a double hernia operation Leaving him hospital ridden for over a week Yeah, he had a hernia. He had like a massive hernia. That was just causing extreme pain When he woke up from the anesthetic and surgery all he felt was a searing pain so bad between his legs that he asked his mother If uh, they had removed his genitals Now we don't mother didn't say what she had answered to that. That's not we don't know only that that's what she said that

Yeah, well, I imagine you know is the answer but all we know is he asked and like it got it got a uh It was that it was that painful for him. You know, it makes me feel Horrible. Yeah, it's not pleasant. You know Um, the there are people out there who do wonder if this surgery this very traumatic experience triggered something in him Where the surgery took place the idea of like someone exploring his insides hands, you know inside wounds And we're going to get to that aspect in a little bit, but uh, it's kind of it's it's one of the theories out there It's not one I I scribe to personally. Um, but people see there's a lot of people who look at this instance and say This is what turned him. I don't he was traumatized by surgery

Yeah, like this surgery fucked him up so bad that it put him on a path That would eventually lead to him being a serial killer and I I don't really that seems a little bit over. Yeah. Yeah I agree with you. It's I agree. I agree. Um, I don't think that that's the case either But you know just kind of putting that out there whatever the case after this surgery his parents noted that jeff did become More insular quiet and to himself. That's not to say he didn't have friends as a kid though He and a couple of his friends would actually often go exploring long tunnels in the area Like those ones that go like concrete tunnels that like sewerage tunnels type things Um, because they were he said he liked them because they were dark and spooky

And like any kid with the chance to do something bad with the potential to get away with it He and his friends would grab bricks and huck them through the windows of abandoned houses With his friends not not people the houses that people lived in abandoned homes But eventually they got caught for that by the cops with uh the cops making a visit to the parents home and letting the parents know Which of course he got scolded for admittedly that all sounds like normal Young kid hijinks. Yeah, I agree. Like ill advised, but not right Dumb dumb stupid shit as a kid where that was like doing dumb stuff all the time. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, like yeah, exactly Uh, but other than that his beyond that his fascination and love of animals and insects did continue to grow and flourish

In fact, he loved to spend his time on the outskirts of aims, Iowa Where there was a place that did studies on barnyard animals Long later dama would learn that that place had something to do with radiation testing on the animals But he never knew exactly what but when he would go his favorite thing to do Was to simply stand on the outside and watch the animals for hours His curiosity eventually would win out and dama attempted to enter one of the abandoned buildings on the testing facility property There on the front steps as he approached lay a swath of dead mice and rats But determined still dama approached and pushed past them opening the front door

As he opened the front door and light poured in mice and rats scattered across the floor Filling the floor with movement Dama claims he immediately ran off and mice and rats would even spill out of the door down the stairs as he ran away Um, so yeah, just an interesting. Yeah Yeah, it's he loved to go just stare at animals. He notes one time. He remembers one of the workers with a long rubber glove Shoving his hand into the rectum of a cow and he was fascinated by what they were doing just pure interest As he watched them. It's very strange and keep in mind. He's like Six

Yeah, five Like he's not like 10. He's seeing all this stuff. Yeah as a young young young kid. It's weird Yeah, and remember like why is he going out all by himself at five years six years old? The 1960s were a very different time and he was living out in more of the middle of nowhere Not a lot of people around and they kind of like know the area well But back then there was less concern that Kids were going to get snatched off the street by strangers people. I were way more trusting back then Um, so yeah, just an interesting note and again another little little red flag of like that's kind of weird

But maybe you know not not necessarily something that indicates a horrible future for the kid Uh And at the age of five years old Jeff with another little red flag ended up finding some bones of a long deceased animal He started the house in a crawl space and became Fascinated with them. He played with them regularly and called them his fiddle sticks As he continued to play with them He said he would begin wondering if the fiddle sticks inside other animals felt the same when they were on the outside

What age what age is this? He's five I mean I know it sounds Cuckoo bananas crazy. He's like I want to know if the fiddle sticks are but It could just be curiosity That's the thing and none of it is bugs and kids love like if they find bones, they're gonna be like oh bones They're bones in me. They're bones. Like this is kid stuff. Yeah, none of it. Yeah, you have to try and look at this through the lens Yeah, try to look at this through the lens of what he doesn't what not what he becomes just like where he is in his present life and

He's just doing kid things. It is interesting looking back, right? Like it is interesting. Yeah, that that's a thing, right? But That's not us saying that You know, it's obvious that you're gonna be a serial killer if you're into gore Yeah, like right. Absolutely. No kids love bugs, but i'm not terrified like a bug kid's gonna end up being the bug lord I bury you. I bury you in bugs. I'm not like worried about that shit So the bug kid versus air hypnosis bug kids. They're up there. Um a bug. I get you the bug kid. Yeah, we'll find you bug It's it's true though. I mean Dear gods out there all over the place, you know, they're not killers. They're just into that kind of more

I'm very much into morbid true crime stuff. Hello. I'm right here. I'm talking about it, right? Uh, but at home even so we found his fiddle sticks He's five years old and the his home life was continuing to deteriorate particularly the relationship between between his parents Joyce had become so depressed and so neurotic as as uh, the husband had described her That she was now drinking heavily to deal with her Depression and insecurity and it's also important to note that her father was like I said earlier in alcoholic Alcoholism tends to run in the family tends to be a genetic thing And lionel continued to work and remain distant dealing with the issues at home by simply not being home

In 1966 Joyce made an attempt on her life Overdosing on second all but it's still debated as to whether there was an intentional attempt on her life Or simply be her being careless with what she was imbibing that particular day So, you know, but it could go either way still a very traumatic experience Domestic violence even started to become part of the equation when Joyce was screaming at lionel and she quote needed to be calmed Uh, the father would begin to hit her though Dahmer would note this is interesting to to kind of look at Dahmer noted that when his his father hit his mother it was never quote with brutality or malice

It was simply to calm her down. What the hell does that mean? What the fuck does that mean? I don't know like I don't like not I don't know how you hit somebody without Brutality or malice. I know exactly what that means Boy, that's a weird thing to say gaslighting the wife as he was hitting her. You know those old movies Where the woman's like, I'm losing my mind the guy's like Stop off of it. Yeah, I feel like it's that kind of thing But I guess it's still a crazy thing to say You shouldn't slap your wife for any reason right? You just shouldn't do that

But I think that's what he's trying to say. So that's that's the justification hitting their wives unnecessarily a lot more often back then Um Yeah, it's weird. It's a weird line and one I definitely noted as well It's just like how like that's such a weird internalized thing but it does go to a state of mind of Disconnection from Things of that nature so violence towards others. Well, I was there's no motion there It was all just what I was doing or what he was doing. So yeah You know, it's it's it. Yeah, again, it's another little kind of just flagged plant

So as most people do when their marriage is falling apart, what do you think their cure? All answer was boys beating the shit out of their kid another baby another baby Bingo, I watch I watch Jerry Springer. I know how it works Lionel finished his studies and got a job in Ohio, meaning the family was about to be uprooted once more and Uh, uh, his wife had become pregnant again

Six-year-old Jeff didn't seem to mind moving and uh more in love with the idea of having a baby brother Even though he didn't know it was going to be a baby boy He was very insistent on wanting a baby brother and his mother noted that he would place his head up against her belly and say quote So he knows that he has an older brother Unquote that's why he would put his face up against the bell. That's very sweet. Isn't that like that's a very adorable little kid thing Like kids is cute. It's a kid thing like okay. Yeah, like fine. Yeah, sure and and she was uh, according to his mother Jeffrey was so Uh, obsessed with the idea of a name that he got to name his brother when he was born And the name he gave his brother was oh buried shoot

A little buried shoot. Yep. No, it's David Dahmer David was the name that Jeff gave him himself Jeff knew about alliteration. I love that. I know right? Yeah, it's like Stan Lee at this point the parents Sort of stopped paying attention to Jeff and instead start paying much more attention To their his now little brother Dave and Jeff never complained about it He very much always kept his emotions to himself The family moved and life continued seemingly as normal as it could But the little red flags continued to pop up in one instance

Jeff was rough rough housing with one of his friends before his friend invited Jeff to pretend strangle him Promising that he wouldn't tell on him Yes, you heard that right. He was invited to you know, they were ruffling rough housing around be like you can you know Pretend strangle me like, you know, I imagine very much like a wrestling thing This is like cartoonish like it's like the Tom Sawyer of murdering It is I mean like I can imagine like when I was a kid When we'd always used to like play stuff I'd always want to be the guy who got killed because I'd loved the death moment where you got to be like

Yeah, and I just like be a goofball. It's like I get I get it, but I'm also like I never said strangle me Right. Yeah Not that didn't come until you were like 18 19 right right right and usually I'd have to really ask for it You know what I mean like Yeah, it's interesting and of course Jeff Went along with it and he placed his hands on him and as soon as he started strangling plays pretend strangling him The kid broke away ran off and ratted him out on the teacher which earned Dahmer 10 wax on the ass with a paddle Hey

Old-school teaching now. Here's what's here's an interesting question. I want to pose for you How true Is this story because we obviously learned this through Jeffrey Dahmer Jeff had many interviews talked to a lot of people like this is and I don't necessarily believe I don't necessarily not believe that he strangled the kid But I'm very curious if he was play strangling him or if like the kid didn't actually ask and Jeff just kind of went for it While they were rough housing and then said we were playing. Yeah, exactly. They already know that he had killed

17 people when he told when he told them this story. Uh, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. We're in we're in the post Kill aspect for this. So if he was already fucked, maybe maybe it is true. You know what I mean? Maybe uh, what's interesting about Dahmer and as we'll we'll talk about later is like when he talks about his crimes and stuff This is what makes him so tricky and I think a while a lot of people accidentally feel for him or empathize with him is because He always plays it like it wasn't he didn't want to do it that way He didn't want to do it and while I think part of that is true It wasn't necessarily that he didn't he wanted the corpse

He just didn't want to go through the act of killing somebody to get it. It wasn't the killing that he enjoyed It was having the product afterward that he liked it will Get a little more detail about that later Um, so yeah, the kid ran off Yeah, ratted him out to the teacher and the teacher whacked him on the ass with the paddle For Dahmer, this was a mark of losing trust of being betrayed and that continued betrayal Would could would continue to happen in a road in those he liked If for example another example his teacher at the time that he was rather fond of and to show his appreciation

He caught her a bunch of tadpoles from the local pond and brought them to class in a tank for her She acted super grateful and displayed the tadpoles out in class for all the kids to see But a couple of days later the tadpoles were missing Only for Dahmer to discover later that they were given to another kid in class Because he was they were all hanging out in his garage And that's where he saw the tank that he had given her with the tadpole swimming around and that like another that was like another real big betrayal moment for him and He what he did though is another moment of what's going on here

Because instead of being upset or crying or fighting He simply grabbed motor oil and poured it into the tank of tadpoles insisting saying to him to himself essentially If she doesn't want them no one just went full gta now. He's just he just grabbed a motor oil And now you know, again, he's young still Yeah, exactly. He's like seven or eight at this point Now we move into about junior high and jeff had nearly at this point completely turned inward Even his friends would call him pretty intelligent awkward and kept to himself He seemed to show no excitement or motivation for anything to the point where his father began to worry

Asking or forcing him into sports that he was never good at and other other hobbies that he never took to But he kept he continued to stay like I said a relatively common inward person Very few people had become close enough friends with Dahmer at this point that he would let them into his private life But One boy named david Eventually became trusted enough by jeff for him to be introduced to his favorite game that jeff invented himself In this another david Not his brother david a friend david from school a second david exactly david not i find

Yeah, not david Dahmer and I also find this Aspect fascinating because it's not like we're not about to go into like his favorite game which choked me daddy It was something way weirder um The game that he created that he introduced to david was called infinity land and the rules were fucking Bizarre sick the the game involved stickmen and spirals The stickmen quote the stickmen were spindly figures who would be annihilated if they came too close to one another

As each boy manipulated his little army the spirals were tightly drawn Intensely imagined symbols of descent whose ultimate destination was basically a giant black hole Jeffrey was nine when he made this game up And he would play it by himself always david was the one and only person who got to see that game And got played with it once and he did not take to it and jeffry quickly ended the game Yeah, it's a weird game of men made out of sticks that if they got too close and they touched each other They get sucked into the spiral and get sent into infinity land essentially I don't understand the game. It doesn't really make any sense even being explained like this

um It's a I don't even know how to look at this in terms of like what could it mean could it just be another kid thing? Yeah, I I would say it could be if it wasn't stacked up at this point with all kinds of weird little things that Alone could be maybe a weird kid imagination. I mean, here's the thing. The real thing is I've made up dumb crazy shit like this too Sure. Yeah, we've all done really weird shit Like I don't and there's other serial killers who have done really weird shit that we'll talk about too one in the future He's he had like a whole imaginative Uh, like he had a whole clan of mice that he ruled over very weird shit

What do you mean ruled over like they accepted him as their ruler? Thank you would he named them He like they had uh, they were like his kingdom He said he would speak to them and they understood no like that kind of stuff He would speak like ant man and the ants Yeah, yeah, like ant man exactly Um, but you know again, jeffrey's nine at this point. He makes up infinity land. This is something he's playing quite often Meanwhile, the home was in further turmoil Joyce had further descended and she was on and off medication that made her nearly

Comatose she had a fragile temper and anything could set her off David and jeff had to keep to themselves not getting in their mother's way or placing their life worries in front of her for fear of setting her off Anything for just a little piece in the house But that also meant keeping all their issues to themselves as to keep things calm But as mental health tends to do it all came tumbling down regardless of how hard they tried And joys was sent into a mental institution for just over a month Jesus, but her pill popping even after that never really slowed down

So we are kind of seeing the the disintegration of his family at this point Jeff is always because of it blamed himself He says there'd not been a time in his life that he can remember where his mother wasn't depressed And he blames himself coming into existence for so for such But his brother noted that jeff often didn't open up about his feelings Instead what jeffrey would do would be keep to himself and every once in a while Wander often in the nearby woods where they could occasionally hear him screaming at the top of his lungs Slamming branches of trees into other trees and seemingly destroying things

Healthy, right Now we're starting to get there now. We're starting to get to that. I'm like, oh, oh, yeah, okay Yeah, things are internalizing very very very a lot of this stuff Like if we did not know if like the jig was not up on this dude ending up being a serial killer Yep, this this just sounds like maybe like the dude from toy storage Someone's going I mean as a traumatic, you know, right someone go through some stuff. Yeah It's I get that but you know Again kind of put up with everything else

It's kind of nuts all the while As as the years wore on We see in Dahmer a certain change in fascination at one point during dinner He asks his father as they had chickens that they were eating that night What would happen if they took the chickens out of the body the chicken bones out of the body and plunge them in bleach and Just excited that his father that his son was interested in something who used the word plunge

him Uh, I use that father may we plunge the bones into the what happened if they put them the bones in bleach And his father already desperate for his son to have an interest in something Now had an interest in something that Was what he did keep in mind his father was a chemist So this didn't raise any red flags for Lionel and excitedly explained to Jeffrey what would happen And the collection of bones slowly became something Jeffrey enjoyed Slowly he would take roadkill off of the road take it home

Put it on the outside and let nature take its course until the bones themselves were exposed Then taking those bones bringing them home bleaching and cleaning them Intending to rebuild the animal at some point But it's important to note that while that was always the intention with everything he took he never did it Never took them and put them back together. He just kind of had a collection of Animal bones. He liked the breaking down more than he liked. Yeah, it was more like yeah, he liked having them in that

um It's it's again a kind it started with birds and small animals and eventually worked their way up to Dead dogs on the side of the road at one point He took the home the body of what he believed to be a st. Bernard corpse Put it in the backyard and let the body Completely decompose at one point even taking the skull Polishing it off and sticking it on a branch outside And marking like a weird territory in a weird ritual in another point

He took another roadkill dog but In a weird change in behavior did not let the the wilderness take its course first But instead let curiosity take control Slitting open the stomach Exploring the innards of the animal that had already been dead on the side of the road And eventually splaying the animal up in a tree with the intestines pulled out and wrapped around the tree and the dog in some weird display

Only to be discovered later by younger kids who were walking in the woods and found that and the skull It was around the area where the skull was put up on a pike Now we're getting into the area where he's taking A turn. Yeah, like he just found it Yeah, he was looking for roadkill. He would go looking for roadkill. Yeah, that's that was like One of his of his favorite hobbies uh to do was to just go out and find roadkill and bring it home and Do stuff with it because his again with Dahmer, especially as we see him age His fascination becomes less the animal and more the working because the inner workings of them

What makes them up like what is on the inside? Morbid curiosity that I think again any normal teenager kid would have I mean you do dissections in class I mean he got to dissect a baby pig in class and says how much he fucking loved doing it um, but like that it just when you it's just you cross that line when you Decorate a tree with the intestines of a dog and leave it hung up in a weird way the decorating. I'm like that's that's a sign But my my question for people who live in rural areas is How odd is it and then you know find find us on r slash juleminati pod. Let us know How odd is it to go looking for roadkill?

How weird of an activity I never wanted to go looking for roadkill. I have never felt that urge, but I also I'm born and raised in Los Angeles, California Look, we're never like on a walk though and like saw it like I mostly decomposed bird or something and like poked it With a stick and been like that's cool. Yeah, but I've never been in I've never been in an environment where I'm like If I walk here long enough, I'll find a dead dog. Like I've never like I've never been in that type of situation So I'm interested to know I I will say and I don't know if this makes me Someone who could very easily snap and just kill everyone But when I was young when we would like in school dissect a frog

I'd always feel terrible about it. Like I'd be like Until I cut that thing open and was like, oh, what's this inside here? And what's this do once I was in it? I was like I'm gonna look at this I feel the same way makes you a serial killer. I don't think that makes you even close to one Oh, I don't want to do this but once I'm in do you think like once and once I've already serial killed one person I might as well just keep you know what I'm saying I just think about eating it. Whatever it is. I mean not like dead bodies on the side of the road But you know, yeah, you don't see roadkill ago. I wonder how that would be on my grill

Yeah, but when I'm like dissecting a frog many people do there's a there's a large contingent of people in this country that Especially the countryside if something just got hit if you like hit something on the side of the road. It's dead. They'll take it with you That's what I know. That's exactly what I'm that's exactly kind of what I'm hinting at. I'm interested to know How is it truly strange? To go looking for roadkill or is that something that a normal person would do? Yeah, actively go looking interesting. Yeah, I don't know. I'm curious to let us know in the in the subreddit It's a it's a it's a very weird kind of to me a very weird hobby if that's a hobby for people But who knows maybe it's just like it's just a thing that people do for for jeffrey at this point too

It's important to note as we get to about 14 years old Dahmer has mostly shut away his emotions He hasn't really been able to feel them. He says he could not remember the last time he cried and he just dealt with things by Internalizing compartmentalizing and detaching and that is all he knew how to do to the point where right around the age of 14 Dahmer didn't really know who he was anymore But he did know that he had a fascination with corpses and a rising urge and interest In men of the uh and people of the same sex in men Dear traction

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Do its signing tax title license extra no security deposit required call 1 8 at 8 9 2 5 jeep for details requires dealer contribution A lease through ally financial currently this must end by 6 3 24 extra charge for miles over 20 000 residency restrictions apply take delivery by 5 3123 jeep is a registered trademark All of these led to frustrating moments and around the age of 14 Where you could no longer handle it dommer finally picked up the bottle and began to drink This is where I see the turning point for dommer as dommers begins to drink You see him fully repress who he is alcoholism runs in his family. You're like, this is you know, not super surprising Um, he would bring alcohol to school. He would drink at school and and whatnot and

Dommer not knowing who he is or perhaps even hating who he is For the first time invents a new personality This isn't who he was but what he wanted people to see him as he became a class clown outward uh, uh, no longer, uh Focusing inward but focusing outward making people laugh having running gags and the dommer's schoolmates when interviewed and asked Remember him as such a guy who would make jokes who would disrupt the class for a fun fart noise or say something to make people laugh Hell, yeah, but they what they didn't know as he was doing it all while he was completely

inebriated and the drinking only got worse and worse for him as life continued His parents marriage deteriorated to the point of eventually needing a divorce His father hadn't even been sleeping in the same room with his mother for a couple of years at that point And even would have go out and stay in a hotel every so often And when eventually came to a head around the age of 15 or 16 and the divorce Uh conversation finally happened dommer wasn't ever brought up in the conversation once But the argument as to who was going to take his little brother was and that Also sat very heavily with jeffrey. I apologize. He would have been 17 at that point going on 18 soon

Well, it's possible that that's because he was 17, right? Agreed and that's that's exactly the case But dommer it's clear at this point dommer takes things extremely personally Like again the tadpole situation or any like, you know, where he was kind of like right and quote betrayed And so like yeah, I I agree because it's like he's 17 almost 18 Didn't matter like he was an adult the legality of where he stayed didn't matter But the kid for for david who was at that point he was like 12 or 13 You kind of have to have that discussion, you know um

But it didn't matter it sat with him and it ate away at him making him feel like he was worthless And at this point he had his own store of porn pornographic magazines All uh all of the magazines that he owned were uh gay magazines But he wasn't ever focused on the lower half of a man or his face Dommer's specific obsession with men was their torsos Specifically the abs in the chest He didn't care when he fantasized and masturbated about the loving or caring aspect He always fantasized about just having the abs there to touch them to caress them to rub up against them abs

He was a man who loved a nice torso. That's not what that normally means though. You know what I mean? Like when you're an ass man, you're not like The ass please no face not the rest of the body just the ass Yeah, yeah, usually you want, you know, you enjoy the rest. It's a little strange. Yeah Um, it's important to note as well that according to dommer at this point He had actually experimented with a boy once in his life He was 10 years old and the child that he was messing around with was seven and they had snuck off three or four times It's also

It's not what experimenting. Yeah, that's Yeah, yeah, I'm giving you his words and not mine But yeah, he so yeah, they they would go off in the woods into their little tree houses and stuff And they would basically like just muck fuck around with each other at young young age And then they stopped he said because they both were afraid they were going to get caught Um, so he already knew even at a young age kind of where his, uh, sexuality was But again, this is the 60s going into the 70s and the internal hatred over his own desire of men Was also something that was now very readily and openly eating away at him. I feel like every time

We talk about a serial killer. Mm-hmm. It always comes down to Repressed sexual nature of some sort. So, uh, yeah, there's always male serial killers very specifically and it's and it's always like Their upbringing was one where they weren't allowed to be themselves. So yeah, they murdered people Like every time it feels like Yeah, I mean again, we're playing serial killer bingo We don't have the head trauma or any like the like molestation by the parents and stuff But you did still have a lot a theory about surgery, which is some type of body trauma. It is trauma

Yeah, and he was four. That was like he very young and kind of like but four Yeah, no, I know It's weird. It's weird But the most important aspect of this time period between 14 and 18 is when the fantasies began the ab fantasies They started as ab fantasies But eventually he realized he just wanted the person their body to be there forever He didn't want the romantic connection. He didn't want the cuddling and aftercare

He just wanted their body and to be in total and utter control of it No matter the cost That's what turned him on and if initially he attempted to sate those desires by jerking off And those would sate those thoughts for a while But eventually those thoughts would return And they only became became stronger as he mentally gave in and fantasized about it over and over The fantasies eventually brought him out to a nearby road where he would spend a lot of time Just sitting and enjoying the weather watching cars drive by

But the most important part is that there was a jogger that constantly Went by the area that Dahmer regularly hung out And the fantasies went from anonymous bodies to that of the jogger specifically And that is what Dahmer thought about for days weeks and months Until one day he decided to give in To that urge that fantasy He made a decision to grab his baseball bat

And wait where he always waited where he saw the jogger every single time. It's not good, but As he arrived he took his bat put it by his side and thought about it fantasized about it Coming up behind him Wacking him in the back of the head and taking him somewhere secret where he can lay with the body lay on top of the body Run his fingers and kiss the body and then eventually in this version of the fantasy leave him alive Unconscious and hopefully none the wiser as to what happened to him. Luckily for this particular jogger. However on this day He wasn't on his jog and he never came by Dahmer let go of the fantasy after that day and never made that attempt again

Spooking himself almost that he let himself go that far And what we're seeing is a very typical serial killer ramp up Where a person who is capable of killing who may even be having fantasies about it Don't necessarily actively go out of their way to hunt somebody down But actively put them in a place where what they want to happen will happen. Yes, he fucking did just hunt this dude down But yeah, he did go out and like wait. Yeah, but i'm saying like yeah, it's a it's a weird There's there's a there's a part of this story that I think is interesting in that You're saying this is the ramp up, right? But there's a lot of people out there who

For whatever reason like Go to commit a crime or go to do a thing and then just like this the person they're gonna Hurt in some way doesn't show up. Yep, and they see that as a sign of like Boy, I lucked out. I shouldn't you know what I was thinking about it and that was just Destiny pulling me away from being stupid. Yep, and that happens like all the time for people and I'm curious Why then this one's like, you know what it spooked me, but I'll get him next time It's very interesting. He like he when he did leave he was like no he no more next time

He was like i'm not gonna do that obviously that worked and then he went on to live in my life. Yeah episode over The it was done after that He did try to let go of the fantasy for quite a while not going out hunting for the jogger In fact, he never went to that spot ever again But eventually the fantasies were pretty much his consistent thought and instead of saying this is like his chicken arc where he's like You know, I could have done something else with my life, but My passion killing Yeah, I mean really and you're gonna see that again

Um, he he went off from fantasizing about it once a day and kind of like getting himself off To anywhere between three and five times a day. It's his consistent obsession He had bones, you know a ton of bones at this point and uh, his his mind is on a one track Thought where it was gonna lead to something bad And as his parents were finalizing the divorce one night joy simply took david and left the home Lionel was left a home with with uh, dommer and the next day he had to go to work So jeffrey drove him to work and jeff would have the house to himself for an entire 48 hours With nothing but a half gallon of milk in the fridge and his own privacy

This is where he loses things completely Jeff decided to take the car. He wanted to go for a drive. He didn't really know what he was gonna do And on that drive jeff came across something he hadn't come across before a hitchhiker Initially, he just drove right past the hitchhiker. He ignored them and went home and it was fun Yeah, like try to like honestly try to leave the thoughts and leave behind the the urge, but He eventually gaved in slowed the car

Turned around and went back for the hitchhiker This man's name was steven hicks from illinois As he picked up steven hicks a dommer told him that he wasn't going anywhere in particular But if he wanted a place to stay for the night He had a house and he could get him some food and a little bit of weed and some booze The hitchhiker and it's not seeing a reason not to do that. He decided to say okay, and dommer brought him home dommer initially went to go get what little weed he had left and brought it up to steve They smoked a bit drank and talked

Dommer attempted to make a move on him, but it became very clear to dommer very quickly That steve was heterosexual and had no interest But that only infuriated dommer He had him here and he had been fast. Uh, he had been fantasizing about having a body like his To himself for so long. He wanted him to say yes to be willing, but he wouldn't In that frustration And getting uncomfortable steve hicks after a few drinks said he was going to hit the road and head out of here Dommer said no problem. He'll be right back. He was just going to go get something

That's when dommer went downstairs and grabbed a barbell without the weights on each side When he came back upstairs steve hicks was sat in a chair back to him dommer walked up Raised the barbell bar and cracked him in the back of the head as hard as he could There he goes steve stood up still Awaken confused and a small fight occurred But dommer was big he quickly pinned him down and hit him again in the head to knock him out He laid bleeding on the floor and almost without thinking in a pure rage

Dommer took the bar pressed against that man's throat and suffocated him to death When he died dommer simply put aside the barbell and immediately took the body to his room There he stripped the body cuddled kissed And enjoyed what victory he had wrought for himself Enjoying the physical body more than anything else A knight of this went by before the next day. He seemed to kind of come to his senses

He suddenly panicked realized what he'd done and knew he needed to hide his hide his crime So dommer went out and bought a brand new knife and a bunch of trash bags Initially while he went to go get that he took the body and dragged it under the crawl space of the house When he returned with the knife dommer went under the crawl space along with him and slowly Removed the body parts and then the head and triple bagged them all in garbage bags After night after the sun went down He took the trash bags to his car with the intent of driving them off And kind of just depositing them in random places buried and thrown away so they'll never be found

Here's where the first frustrating moment of police action comes in On his way with the body not in the trunk, but in the back seat Dommer gets pulled over stop get the fuck out of here for driving To for in the back seats for driving slightly left of center As he was pulled over the police called for backup and a second car arrived another Oh my god And they asked dommer to come out and do the straight line test now. Remember this is the era where there is no Alcohol like haul breath or the breathalyzer test that didn't exist

Certainly, but you're telling me these cops didn't look in this man's car and be like Those are three trash bags and the back of your car. What is that? The well, uh, you know, you know, you make a good point. You make a very good point This is all happening at 3 a.m. By the way So they asked dommer to come out and they have him do the walk a straight line test and so on and he passes All of the tests in the meanwhile the second cop walk walks over his car with a flashlight in hand and flashes the flashlight Into the car openly asking what smelled so bad in the vehicle I

man and Dommer simply replied It's garbage. He's taking to the city dump His parents were getting a divorce and he couldn't sleep and he was hoping that a drive at night would help clear his mind The cops simply said Ratt dude cool And let him go However

After the cops had left Dommer did not continue down the road Instead the cops to get I think scared him a bit and he turned around and went back home with the body Going back under the crawl space and burying it all in a shadow shallow grave Days would go by and he would stress him out that the body was under there But in yet one last Strange act from dommer with this body at one point he decides to head back under the crawl space He digs the body back up and he digs through the bag for specifically the head

He takes the head out of the bag reburys the body and brings the head into his room There he places the head down and jerks off in front of it He uses this head as a inspiration to take care of himself Until the head became so rotted that he couldn't spare the stench any longer and got rid of the skull himself And this is the beginning of the downfall of jeffrey dommer And we will continue next week

With what happens next Jesus like I said Fucking hell dude a very bizarre like youth With little red flags that accumulated You know really were are worrying

But really when he started drinking and he started pretending to be this like class clown and everybody loved him That's when like he kind of just Buried his true self and him getting drunk Would allow that true self essentially to come forward and he always did it when it was drunk That's something we're going to see next time is he always had to be drunk to do it first And he always had to be blackout drunk to do it He truly had no interest in like the remembering of it He remembers this one because he was drunk, but he wasn't blackout drunk

But that becomes a staple of his crimes as an order for him to basically be who he actually is He has to booze it down because he's he can't deal with it himself. He's too scared of himself or maybe there's an aspect of like Knowing what's right and wrong. I don't want to say guilt. I don't think it's guilt I just think he knows he can get in trouble. Maybe he can get caught. It's You know, it's it's a reason I think dommer is one of those those Figures or serial killers that really just kind of sticks around decade after decade. I feel weird even analyzing it at all I can't like It's just it's so strange. It's like such a part of the human psyche that I just can't

Connect with right exactly and compare his like childhood to something like Gacy's or Uh, granny, you know nanny dos. You know her horrible childhood. His was relatively, you know, it was traumatic Yeah, but I mean his childhood sounded a lot similar to mine and I ended up fine You know, I ended up I ended up as a serial killer Well, it just is what it is that, you know, everybody gets loads of people get Delta shithand as a kid and growing up isn't great But that's no excuse to be like and this is why I murdered 17 people right

Yeah, you know, and that's that's where the his manipulative kind of personality. I think comes through Um, yeah lucky for that jogger man that that jogger on that day was not there Very very very lucky. Anyway, god damn. We'll wrap it up here boys Thank you for this part one of what I believe will be a three-part series on dammer. We will see Uh, we'll back next week with part two. We're gonna go record a mini-sode for patreon patreon.com slash luminati pod We love you. It's a great website. We'll see you next time. It is a good website. Bye. Bye Anyway Me and my wife were sitting outside indulging on our porch one night enjoying ourselves

I needed to go to the bathroom. So I stepped back inside and after a few moments I hear my wife go holy shit get out here. So I quickly dash back outside. She's looking up the sky I look up too and there's a perfect line of dozen lights traveling across the sky Oh It's jeep 4x4 season make your next adventure epic and hurry in now for great deals Now well qualified returning fca lsc's get a low mileage lease on the 2023 jeep grand Cherokee l Laredo 4x4 for $3.29 a month for 24 months with $3,999 Do it signing tax title license extra no security deposit required call one eight of eight nine two five jeep for details

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