Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 175 - Jeffrey Dahmer Part 3 - Don’t Wake Granny

Episode Date: October 23, 2022

Come to the live show! - http://www.Chilluminatipod.com 

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Yup, juice! Toyota, let's go places! Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Chilluminati Podcast, episode 175. As always, I am one of your hosts, Mike Martin, joined by the Cary Grant and Rosalind Russell of LA, Alex and Jesse. Hello. Hey! It's Rosalind Russell.

That had to say, you can't see it, podcast listeners. Jesse just had like a normal blank stare, it took like a second, and then all of a sudden the confusion. It took me a minute to register. I was like, what did you just say? Here we are. I think definitely between the two of us, Jesse's the Cary Grant. Well obviously, please.

In the relationship. Well yeah, but you know, that's a good one. I like that. Nobody loses in that one. Those are two delightful human beings. I bet they were. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

Two beautiful, beautiful people. One day you're going to have to, I know there's so many movies you need me to see, but one day I would like you to guide me into like the black and white classics of like old school movies, because I have never really dipped my toe, except for when my great-grandma liked to watch stuff, but she liked to watch like the same movie over and over again, Casablanca. I want to make you watch the old, not like, you know, how there's everyone's like the classic black and white. No, I want to make you watch the really cheesy, super fun, ultra goofy slapstick.

I'm down. I also want to watch like the old like monster movies too. There's, listen, I got you. You're coming to the right apartment. I'm like, I'm like a newborn babe in the entertainment world in this regard. You know, you've got so much to show me. Yeah, you're coming. You're coming to the right apartment this weekend.

But why are you coming there? Well, because I enjoy it. But also because we've got a live show in October 25th. We've got a live show at the Tetragramm. I don't know if you're aware, but Alex has told everyone that Jesse's big smile is happening. And if you bring your redheaded friends, I will smile. Bring them all. This is what always happens.

This is what always happens. Bring all your heads. A visionary has an idea. And then it's it's taken right out of his hands. Be my wingman. That's such a Illuminati podcast as a whole right there. Jesse's big smile. Can we have some people bring duct tape and like a magic marker?

So when they buy the t-shirt for Alex's big smile, they can write Jesse on it and slap it. Jesse's big smile. You know the vibes. Alex's big smile. One minute into the show. Be there. Be square.

You know what to do by now. I've been talking about it a lot. You know what's up. You know what? Go talk to Jesse. I'm engaged to be married. Yeah. Yeah.

Woo. Yeah. If you're going to come talk to my pal Jesse, you better do it with a mouthful of fucking plastic glow in the dark vampire fangs like everybody else because that's what it takes to do the big smile people. One minute into the show. You think I'm going to fucking forget? Did five days.

No way. If I forget, oh my God. I don't know what I'm going to do. I want to know how long you've been doing this bit now. Like how long? Too long is the answer. Agreed. Agreed.

Agreed with you. If you are following along with the show and you believe that I just like to manipulate people with patterns and phrases over long periods of time just to see how long they will believe in something that's never going to actually happen, I'll see you one minute after the beginning of our show on Tuesday in Los Angeles. Chillipanautipod.com buy tickets now. I'm going to say 20 percent of the audience is not going to be is not going to be wearing things.

No, we'll be wearing. We'll be. I'm going to say, I'm going to say the first three rows. Yes. Everyone else. No. I think you're going to be surprised. I think it's going to be blinding.

I think you might need to have your eyes checked. You think it's going to be blinding? Is that because you're going to buy like a novelty size bag of them and hand them out on the way in? No. No, I'm not going to do anything of this. No, but I think there are people coming with extra. I've seen, I've seen the discussions in the discord.

I don't believe our fans in attendance have the Boston baked bean balls. To come with teeth in their mouths. I don't think they'll do it. Come bearing teeth. You fuckers, you blood, you sexy blood suckers, you blood suckers, you goddamn blood sucking bastards. They're going to suck our blood as we suck their money out through their pocket through Patreon.

Haha. Woo. He, hey, what he's talking about is very important. Patreon.com slash Chilminati Pod is the lifeblood of our little show here, our little corner of the Internet, if you will, where we go to keep our jobs, if you know what I mean. So head there, get stuff in return, get ad free episodes, get presale, get art, get shirts that look insanely. The last shirt that that you showed me is like so cool.

I don't know. Have you ever not announced that yet? It's not announced yet. It's not out where we're picking we're picking a launch day as we speak. It's worth signing up for Patreon just to find out what the shirt is. That's how tight it is. It's like it's great. If you've been listening to the if you've been listening to the pod for a while, you're

going to want this shirt. That's all I'm saying. And I say Mel has produced maybe some of her, my, at least my favorite posters that she's made so far. The sickest stuff. They just keep getting sicker too. You know what I mean? Like she's very low key.

I stopped giving her suggestions on what I want for like the focus of the poster and just like let her go. I'm just like she's part of it more than we like she's it's like her thing. You know what I mean? Like and she's making stickers for the Yeti now, which is awesome. So congrats to that. That's been sick and not the one on our shop. Like just extra ones.

So if you when you see those stickers drop, grab them, support our girl. Also mini-sodes every single time we put on an episode also every month you get an episode of rotten popcorn added to your extremely long, large library of movies that nobody's ever heard of or seen that math is somehow finds for us to watch together on this show. It's weird. I've I've I've suggested one or two movies and those have been some of the the most watched movies, like the most popularly watched movies that we've done so far. Like me, me and Jesse's are like the ones that have had views before and they're like

and that's saying something. Just get down there. It's a good time. We're going to have a good time this month watching a movie. I've been dying to watch. So it's all going to be good. It's going to be hype. Shalubinati pod on Patreon.

Go there, pay the money, help the show. You know, this could be it. This could be all you need. You might not need any other entertainment in your life besides this soon. If you just keep contributing to the Patreon, there's going to be something for everybody. I feel like you're trying to push off the beginning of an inevitable downer. Yeah, I don't. Yeah, what do you mean?

What do you mean? I'm just talking about like, what if we did a Shalubinati cooking show? That could be something. If you go to the Patreon, that's a thing that's there. Well, you know, I have a kitchen here in the office and math is in town. That's true. We could do a Shalubinati cooking show. There wouldn't even be any body parts in the fridge.

Yeah, I know. That's crazy, because there might be some body parts in today's episode. Are we ready? Should we just dive in? Who is ready? Who's ever ready? No one, really. Are you ready? Like, I mean, if you know what Jeffrey Dahmer has done, like, I think that's the best you can do is just like,

look it up before you hear it. Yeah. Again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just so you're not so run over by literal. Try to get the pot. Yeah, try to get the basics. No, no, what you're getting into. I have, again, I have a lot of questions.

Once we're into it, I've got questions of the meat eater variety that I have thoughts. I have questions. There's some things I've heard. I'm just curious. So yeah, I'm ready. Well, before we dive in, then a big I also want to say thank you because for I don't know if you boys know, but for the very first time in a little over four years, we've been doing the show together.

We actually finally cracked into the USA. True crime charts. We have hit every other country in the world. Some places in top 10 believes we were number one for a little while. Like for the US, we never, ever showed up. And for the past two weeks, we popped on at the bottom. We're like, we were like 230 out of 250. But we hung in there for a couple of days, and then we popped back in there

for another day the other day. So thank you guys for listening and for continuing to tune in. That's a huge achievement for the podcast. That's right, America. Suck it. We're on your list now. We can't get rid of the true crime charts in the US are fucking in like so difficult to get into. So I'm also shout out Belize, though.

Yeah. Oh, no, Belize is fucking Uganda is another one. We're like, we're like number three or four or something crazy. Like shut up Belize in Uganda. Send us some treats from your far away lands. Yes. Ooh, delicious foreign food, please. Send me some rum, please. Come on. All right. Well, I think that's it.

No more happiness allowed, Alex. We are about to dive back into part three of the Jeffrey Dahmer series. Sure, you don't want to just talk about Legos instead. I mean, I could talk about Legos all day. I love Legos. Legos are one of my favorite things. But no, not right now. And in case Kirby, you want to talk about Kirby, Kirby's very cute.

He also eats living things like, you know, kind of like, you know what I mean? Big Dahmer, you're going to get there. Yeah. Yeah. All right. All right. I'm not going to get away from this. This episode is brought to you by CVS. Make the most of the warm weather and summer on with CVS. Whether you're hitting the beach or just taking a stroll, CVS is your one stop shop for everything you need to soak up the sun.

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Imagine your future differently at capella.edu. Well, in case you two don't remember, last we left Jeffrey Dahmer in last week's episode, Dahmer had committed his first murder second in total after nine years of not taking a life after the murder of Steve, who was merely hitchhiking his way to a rock concert way back when he lived with his parents. So nine years Dahmer did not commit any, at least as far as we know,

murders or heinous violent crimes. Again, the only thing I can say is in Germany, we lose contact with him for a couple of years, but from what it seems like and from what the German officers and what not looked into after they discovered who Dahmer was, nothing matched up. So it didn't look like he actually committed any crimes. And he had that two year stretch of trying to be extremely like religious and straighten up until he got that note tossed in his lap

in a library, which he says is what began the downfall. And now after those nine years in the Ambassador Hotel, Dahmer wakes up in his hotel room to his second victim, dead Steve Tuyomi, a man he'd met the night prior at Club two nineteen, one of Dahmer's regular hunting grounds. It's here, or rather, it's there, rather, with a drug to drink, premade and ready to go that he took his victim back to the hotel for his usual pitch of having a good time.

And after getting incredibly drunk on rum and coke and fooling around with each other, Steve Tuyomi succumbed to the drugs and passed out where Dahmer, according to him, remembers laying next to him, stroking his body while he slept until Dahmer also fell asleep. However, the scene that was before him with Steve's head hanging over the bed, blood dripping from his mouth and a badly beaten and bruised chest with several broken ribs showed that Dahmer, instead of falling asleep, broke into some horrendous rage and beat Steve Tuyomi to death with his bare fists.

This is the one where he's like, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know how this. Yeah, yeah, it was it was this. Well, it was the death of Tuyomi here that Dahmer points to as the start. The catalyst to killing an additional 15 men and boys. And to keep in mind, it's important to keep in mind, all of them were men and boys of color, and they hear Dahmer's own words on that night. I actually want to play a clip from a 1993 interview

where they're actually asking him about that particular night. So let's listen to the clip. One time I brought this young man back to the hotel room, the ambassador hotel. I was just planning on drugging him and spending the night with him. I had no intention of hurting him. When I woke up in the morning, he had a broken rib here. I was heavily bruised. Apparently, I had beaten him to death with my fists.

And you have no memory of it? No memory of it. But that's what started the whole spree all over again. And that's his own words in like, what happened that night and how detached he sounds and just almost very matter of fact. The thing that's weird about this to me and this maybe you maybe you're about to talk about this, I don't know. But I we've done a lot of serial killers on the show.

And there's always like one murder that's like the one that they're like, well, this one, like I did it, but like, I don't even know how that one happened. That's so weird. And I wonder if there's some sort of like significance to that in the like mentality of a serial killer that that like there's some sort of like permission that you get from it being an accident or 100 percent something, because there's something weird about it. Like beating someone to death is such a exertive.

Like it's a hard thing to do without knowing that you're doing it. Right. You know, and it's all about for for serial killers and the ramp up to their first kill or in this for Dahmer, almost like a second, his second first kill where nine years and almost like he resets a little bit. It's little, little allowances that slowly allow them or put him in a position where that particular fantasy can come to pass. If we look at Gacy, if we look at that first kill where the kid was in the kitchen making a breakfast and he came out with a knife and Gacy immediately

attacked him and killed him and blamed that he thought he was going to get. He was coming at him with a knife and stuff. All of that was just an excuse or a reason or a position to put himself in to get that first one out of the way so that when that barrier is removed, when he sees life goes on, when he sees he can get away with it, now it becomes something that he wants and it becomes almost like an addiction. I mean, he already chopped a guy up, right? Like at this point?

Yeah, yeah, there was the hitchhiker. And but there was the there was nine years in between that and this one. I mean, sure. But it's not like he like is a sober guy. Oh, God, no, no, no, no, that's not my beer nine years. That's not my implication. It's more my implication is more after that nine years, it's almost he had to give himself little allowances again

before he got to that point, but it was much quicker this time. He was exposing himself to in public, remember? Like toward he was very quickly just went to sleep and now he's back to ready to kill. Yeah. One day he was nonviolent. He went to sleep in the next morning. He already was a murderer. So, oh, well, yeah, exactly too late now.

Really? Like who cares? And yet despite Dahmer's consistent like lines of feeling regret or sadness, also saying in a separate interview that this death, quote, unquote, haunted me for a long time, his actions speak wildly different. However, shocked or panicked, Dahmer says he was that morning. It clearly was never enough to put in plan. It clearly was never enough of like panic or shame to not put into motion a plan to hide the evidence or preserve the body for his own purposes.

Shortly after the morning passed, Dahmer went to the local mall mall to purchase a large suitcase, then returning to the ambassador hotel and renting the room for another further night. Returning to his hotel room, we can only assume that he just sat with the corpse. In my mind, he likely was living out more fantasies throughout the day before night fell where he would take Steve's body and stuff it into the suitcase, bring it down to street level and hail a cab. And then from there returned to his grandmother's house

where he took the suitcase with Steve's body stored in it and stored it into the in the basement in his grandmother's fruit seller. So like clear, like again, you hear Dahmer in his interviews and you hear him saying how he regrets how it was just he wish he hadn't this, that and the other. And yet when the moment arises, he makes moves as though he had planned this out and was ready to go at any given time. He clearly wasn't panicked for very long.

I believe he went and bought that suitcase at one PM. Like he didn't wait a long time before he put into motion the plan to store the body. You're. I mean, there's no way that that you can ever trust somebody like Jeffrey Dahmer to ever tell you what he's thinking, because it's more natural to him to just change the situation using information that you can never know, you know, than him ever being honest, like the idea of him having

feelings that are factual, it probably doesn't exist to him. He probably just tells you whatever he wants. So I agree. It doesn't really. Yeah, but but I think that we can also say, perhaps you can. Plan all this stuff out and have everything set to go and be that guy who does it over and over and over again and still know that it's wrong. Oh, yes. Right. Like, I can know I shouldn't eat McDonald's,

but sometimes I'm just going to go eat McDonald's. And I think that's it's like a human condition that it's quite possible that, you know, this is an elevated example of it. But he may be like, man, I didn't yeah. So that was bad. Yeah, she probably shouldn't have done that shit. But still, of course, it sounds like it's something to us. It's like, oh, he's just saying that because really he's a psycho killer

and he's doing all this. But like maybe he really is like, yeah, I'm aware. And no, I like doing it. You know what I mean? Like that's that's what's in and I think, you know, to both your points, it's the reason Dahmer stays so, again, popular because he's one of the ones that people feel like they can empathize with. He puts forward a very sympathetic, I guess, personality or kind of demeanor

when he speaks, but, you know, like Jesse said, too, he makes he is to him. I do think that all of that is is a form of manipulation. He does say things like, yeah, I did it, but I don't think he's doing it as like a way of looking back and regretting his actions. I think he uses it as a leverage of manipulation of the person he's speaking to. I think in the most people don't see. He just doesn't care. Yes, watch those interviews and watch what he says and watch the interviewer

always seems to react sympathetic or empathetic or why. And he just leans into that, admits it. But in admitting it, he takes the power into his hands and he can use that to manipulate whoever it is he's speaking to. What I'm saying, like a lot of these serial killers, like, you know, the ones that just kind of do it, like like Ed Gein, like it's just like some weird secret lab that's going on in his house. And he was God, yeah, he was just disconnected.

So from reality, he just illustrates the mentality a lot better that a lot of these people have. I think that Dahmer has a really similar situation where it's like just like he's doing it. He's not really thinking about the idea that anybody's ever going to find it. Like, he's, you know, within reason, making it so that he can live his life. Right. Yeah. And that's correct.

He's doing what he can to live his life. And this is only his first dip into allowing him to live through the fantasies he's been repressing for so long, too. And we'll see how quickly that becomes obviously a very slippery slope for Dahmer. Yeah. But you always get these. You always get these these the same scene at the end with these guys where they just sort of like the cops walk in and they're like the hell. And he's and then the killer's like, oh, yeah, I figured you guys are probably

going to not like that. And like, that's that's how it usually goes. Like it's because he's not thinking. It's not it's it's different than like, I don't know. I was going to say Son of Sam, but I don't actually know. We'll talk about Son of Sam. He's one of the next ones for sure. But it's different than, say, Tommy Patera, who had that or a street shootout

where he took off down the road and the cops were chasing him. Usually most of the time, like you're saying, they walk in and the killer's like, all right, at that point, they almost just have expected to be caught by now. I'm just saying if a sociopath, psychopath person like Jeffrey Dahmer didn't want to be caught and that was important to him, you'd never catch him. Like, if that was like what he cared about, you know what I mean? Like, look at like, look at like the Zodiac killer, right? It's like, obviously, the Zodiac killer cared about making an impact.

But the Zodiac killer obviously also cared about not getting caught because the Zodiac killer did not get caught. Same thing with the Golden State killer. The Golden State killer liked the legend of his kills. But the idea of getting credit or or, you know, who is the one that the not Ed Gein, but the other hot one, the other hot one. The other hot one, Ted Bundy. Yeah, Ted Bundy, right?

Like or the the the dude from who's in Minehunter. Oh, Ed Kemper. Yeah, the coed killer. Yeah, well, Ed Kemper is another one we'll definitely be covering. But Ed Kemper. They like to talk about like how good they were at doing it. You know what I mean? Yeah, at being at being a villain, which is a totally I feel like a totally

different they think they both express themselves as killing. But it's interesting to see that Dahmer is more of like a, you know, he he's he's in it just to he's almost like masturbating. Oh, yes, he is. Again, we talked about the different types of serial killers. Dahmer is the epitome of a product killer. He doesn't do the killing for the killing itself. He does the killing for the product of the body at the end for his own selfish

reasons. And, you know, talking to speaking of Bundy to use his own quote at one point during one of his many interviews, you know, he talks about was like he says something along the lines of on the first murder, you have everything planned out meticulously from start to finish so you don't get caught. You don't screw up by the 20th. You forget where you put the tire iron, like just like how it becomes so normal and you just like a second.

You don't even think about it anymore. It's just like how your apartment gets dirty. Yeah, like I mean, it's just kind of like leave shit around. Yeah, then explain then the whole, I don't know, apathetic or like laissez attitude at the end where they're just like, I think it got me. Yes, just like they're so it's you know, it's like if you they're so tired from hiding it all the time or doing all the with all the work that goes into

not getting caught. There's no point like they they know that it's wrong and and and they are not trying to get away with it. They just aren't making a big deal about it. I think at the end of a lot of serial killers career, I think you're right. I think most of them are not trying to get away with it anymore. I think they've just like they just some of them see themselves as untouchable. Others are just too bored or tired to care. It's like a spider or a cat like they just do it because that's what they do.

And I also think it's interesting, the idea that all these people as killers, they have, you know, they take life, they are violent. They like do all these things that you would think when the police show up, they'd be like, you're never taking me out. But I think it says a lot about the serial killer mentality that it's like, you know what, I at the end of the day, I'm it's like kind of I don't want to say it's a submissive thing, but it certainly is like they when the police show up, they're like, all right, you got me.

Yeah, it isn't like I'm going to have a shoot out with the cops. Like they don't want to go out like that. And there's like, I don't want to say most serial killers are cowardly bitches. Like there's there. I mean, there's certainly I can't obviously speak for every serial killer. But I feel like there is that that is a trend where it's like they have a distinct lack of spine when it comes to actually confronting people, authority, whatever.

Like they either have to like hit him from behind or like drama or do and that's all the time. And that's like one of the reasons I really, you know, when we do our serial killer series, I try to dive as deep as we can because 99 percent of the time they're just pathetic wimps behind the myth that's built around them. They like the killing itself. Yeah. And then there's, you know, but like, you know, a lot of them, their victims are surprise attacked or younger or smaller or older.

Like Son of Sam, when we talked about him, he's a very he's a whiny bitch. He's not a scary monster. He's a pathetic individual. He's like an angry, repressed person. Yeah. Peewee Gaskins, which will be way later, like he's similar. Like he's. But but, you know, on the other end of the scale, though, what's his name, the fucking luckiest man ever, the dumbest survival man. Boon Helm. Yeah.

Boon Helm, on the other hand, right? Opposite type of serial killer, right? Like, dude just loves the fact that he can beat everyone's ass and just does it whenever he can. And somehow in the middle of the day, in the middle of broad daylight, you know, and somehow would get arrested and confuse the police and confuse the sheriffs and the people and always like get away with it. Wild. But what was his?

But what was his? There was something wrong. I was like, there's always that one fundamental flaw in their character. I was called being a child in the 1800s and being raised as a farm slave. And he didn't get hit in the head or some shit. He got hit in the head. He was fighting a full grown adult at 10 years old in town. Remember, he was like, like, there's there's clearly something in his youth that like, yeah, oh, yeah, I'm him up.

There's a lot of yeah. But but it's yeah, it's it's it's every single one of these people has that one like, oh, that's probably what did it. And it's really weird to look back at because clearly at the time, they didn't know and know. But like now that we have this complete look at all these different serial killers, the trends are comical. Yeah. Because every single time we're like, oh, there it is. Yeah, here we go. Yeah, I let's but it's wild.

I mean, it's wild, like even looking at Gacy versus Dahmer, right? What are we talking about? Fifteen years difference, maybe something like that. Yeah. So Gacy was operating in the 60s and 70s. Dahmer operated in the late 80s into the early 90s when he was on a spree. Except for that. Except for like the one first one. Yeah. Yeah. And and, you know, it's

the same the same phenomena of like when your dad tells you a story about how when they were young, they would like jump in the back of a car and go on the freeway and like, oh, yeah, my mom had stories like that. And I just like like it's it's it doesn't mean that much, right? It's just it's a it's a little difference between how things were when we were children and how things were when our parents were children. And honestly, when I think about my childhood versus the way that babies are today and how 10 year olds are treated today, totally different vibe

and totally totally sheltered and totally closed off and safe compared to my childhood, right? But just thinking about that in terms of the whole society, right? Even from from Gacy to Dahmer, the entire system of being a serial serial killer, because it has to do with being under society and operating in the like liminal space outside of society's rules, it just takes a totally different shape, even in even in very slightly different times, just because, I mean, the Wild West,

the only thing between the Wild West and now is the fucking sixties. You know what I mean? Like that's, you know, there's some sliding scale of laissez-faire and and and, you know, societal control over people and what sort of privacy you can have. And, you know, I don't know, something to think about. Interesting. It's I'm so proud of you, boys. You've come so far in your true crime thinking. I love hearing what you got.

Oh, it's so nice where I'm doing a good job. I'm proud of I'm proud of you. You're completely right. Like there's there's there's so much in terms of patterns and what you can look at in society, having a massive, massive influence on serial killers and just the existence of surveillance technology cutting down serial killers, you know, by a huge swath removing lead from everything seemed to have had a huge effect on potential violent offending crimes.

I'm interested in COVID. Yeah, we'll see what happens in 20 years if we have like new serial killers looking at the COVID crime and COVID because I remember reading about something being like like exponentially, exponentially higher violent crime during lockdown. Yeah, that's a surprise me. We'll see what happens. Hopefully nothing as bad as as bad as it could get. Electricity is more than a source of energy.

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and you can be grateful for those things, greater blessings will happen. That was David's Corner presented by David Stelzer, founder and CEO of Azure Standard, America's premier supplier of organic foods and over 12,000 helpful products. Join our community for free at azurestandard.com. Obviously, from this point on, I just want to put out a big old trigger warning for people. We're getting into the worst aspects and the worst parts of Dahmer's existence. So just this is Jeffrey Dahmer, folks. I know, I just kind of put that out there.

So obviously by now Dahmer's renting rooms at a hotel while living with his grandmother and going to Club 219, which was favorite clubs along with a few others. But you might be like, remember Dahmer needs money and he can't live off his grandma forever. So Dahmer actually had a job at this point. What do you think Dahmer's day job was? Unless you already know, but if you don't, I want to hear your guesses. What do you think Dahmer was doing for a day job in the late 80s? In Milwaukee.

In Milwaukee in the late 80s, Jeffrey Dahmer was cutting open dead babies. No, I don't know if the last job he had was a phlebotomist job that he lost. OK, well, that's not that far off from what I guess that. Yeah, you're right. He's pretty close. Gutting dead babies and he's he buries pets. OK, that's your guess. He buries pets. He cremates family pets. That's all right. What do you think, Jesse? You think he's doing in 1988?

Some fucking morose ass shit. Let's see. We have previous killers being chicken men. And a chicken man is like a very uncommon name. A clown and the chicken man. He was the same person. The clown and the chicken man is the same person. Annie Doss, who was just mean with clown, the chicken man, the mean, the fighter. I'm going to say, oh, boy, in Milwaukee, you said.

Yeah, we're out in Milwaukee, out in the middle of nowhere, beer factory. You know, he was in a factory. It was not a beer factory, though. Well, I was working at the factory. No, no, no, he was working on making his own blood factory at this point. He wasn't quite there yet. Dahmer at this point was working for the Ambrosia Chocolate Factory. Man, he was made.

He was one of the guys who managed the huge mixtures, adding the powder to it and all that stuff. That's what he did. A lot of heavy lifting. That was Dahmer's day job. He was making sweets. This is the money into the sweets. Yeah, he's at what? Did he ever put anything into the sweets?

Not that we know how, like, you know, like, kiss, nothing but Dahmer's love went into that chocolate. All right, yo, just wow. I just googled Ambrosia Chocolate Factory. I was like, I wonder if they're still around. They still sell chocolate. I'm going to assume no, because the first thing that popped up was I worked at Ambrosia Chocolate Factory in Milwaukee from 1994

to 1992, a new Jeffrey Dahmer AMA. And it's a Reddit AMA and everyone's asking questions like obvious, a first question, like, what was he like? And dudes like stunk of alcohol sometimes. Yeah, no wonder. That's the kind of. That's the kind of thing you're running. Drunk as hell, yeah. Well, working at Ambrosia Chocolate Factory is where he got the money

that fueled his predatory lifestyle while he was living freely at his grandmothers, who was none the wiser to his more nefarious activities. Steve's body in the suitcase would sit and rot under her house for a week. That's fucking crazy. For a whole week, all while that weekend, Thanksgiving took place just upstairs where his whole family came over after the holiday weekend. How do you not smell that when you're like cooking Thanksgiving?

That turkey, man, it's just too good. It smells too good. Too good. They just overpowered their olfactory senses. After the holiday weekend, Dahmer once again took it took action that speaks to the opposite of his constant verbal guilt. Like a machine, someone who not only knew what he wanted to accomplish, but how to accomplish it. Dahmer went out and bought a knife to specifically dismember his second victim,

decapitating the head, gutting his stomach, carving away the flesh from the bone and then chopping that. Yeah. And then chopping that flesh into tiny pieces, which he would then place into heavily lined trash bags. You think like an ax or a saw, right? No, he was like carving away like meat off the bone. And once once the bones were free of flesh, he laid them in a towel, wrapped them, took a sledgehammer

and slammed them and crushed them down into a powder. Again, honestly, that's the smartest thing you can do. It's methodical. It's it's it's too preplanned. The process took him about two hours. And at the end, he simply left all the bodies remains that were in the trash bags out on the street corner, where it would be picked up by the weekly trash. So that's just how we got rid of it.

You just put it in the trash, people took it away. No one. Does that make you an accomplice? If you're the trash man, no, but it sucks because it happens so much more than than you would expect in terms of like serial killer cases that how long we had the trash like that? That's a good question. When did our current garbage system come into effect? I have to imagine it was like the fifties or forties.

Did Gacy benefit from the trash man? He never. No, no, I don't think so. I don't think he know he stored them all in his crawl space. Remember for some weird, you know, like, yeah, he fucked up big time. He he yeah. Yeah. Well, the cops fucked up big time with with Gacy more than anything. Well, I bet you that we're going to find all baby. Yes, we are fucked up big time.

Now Dahmer at this point, Dahmer had found himself in yet another perfect storm of his own doing. He had been able to live out his fantasy, taking what he wanted, along with taking an innocent life and not only say it as deepest, most horrific urges, but did it without quote unquote remembering the awful part because he said he blacked out. He could get what he wanted as long as he didn't remember. And just in case you were wondering, the reason this man blacked out

during his violent crimes is because he was black out, fucking drunk. It wasn't like some psychosis he went into that he kind of presents it as. He presents it as his dark side. This man was a fucking alcoholic. He was black out. Yes to it. Yeah, he was used to being black out drunk. It just became part of it. So yeah, he just gets black out drunk and then the real him comes forward.

He gets mean and rages and he murders the people that are there. In a separate interview, we also see Dahmer, in my opinion, kind of slip up once again and show that his fear wasn't actually the guilt of murdering, but it was that of getting caught in accountability. Again, this came from a 1993 interview from CBS. Quote, that's what happens when you think you don't have to be accountable to anyone. You think you can hide your activities and never have to account for them. It can lead to anything then, which it did and it's barely a motivation.

It's like, no, it's all about him not getting caught. All about him not getting caught. You're just doing the bare minimum so that you can continue to like go get McDonald's or whatever. 100 percent. It's just I think it's just for me. It's frustrating to see how many people still like don't even either hear this or read it and always just imagine that if he had just been given help, he would have stopped.

And that's not necessarily true. I think he probably would have found a way to live through his fantasies one way or another. Regardless, as the weeks went on, Dahmer continued his scheduled therapy sessions with his doctor. If you remember, he got forced by court order while his paranoia and worry would slowly subside as he came to realize nobody was piecing two and two together and nobody came looking for Steve Tuomi that he was for all intents and purposes safe from the repercussions of his heinous act.

If Dahmer was right about anything, though, it was that this certainly was the first of many a sort of catalyst that he removed all pretense of trying to even stop the thoughts and urges and instead give into them and act on them. It would only be a couple of months before those urges became too powerful to ignore again. Mind you, there was the nine year gap. And now we jump right to a two month gap before he's ready for the next one. Like just right back into it, not even a, you know, lost a step.

Like he's just been wanting this for a long time. On January 17th, 1988, Dahmer on his way home from Club 219 saw a young boy of only 14 years old by the name of James Doxator at the bus stop. After brief introductions, Dahmer offered him $50 to come spend the night with him and his grandmothers, which he accepted. Doxator was running away from home at the time, from an apparently a very aggressive stepfather, but loving mother who he tried to keep in touch with while he was on the road and likely just looking for a place to stay safe

for the night. He went with Dahmer when Dahmer and Doxator returned home. Catherine Dahmer's grandmother was already well fast asleep. They went into Dahmer's room and for several hours engaged in some sexual activity. At some point, however, Dahmer convinced Doxator to come with him into the basement, where once again, they simply spent more time. But the question sits, why even go to the basement in the first place? If Dahmer wasn't planning on doing something anyway. How often is he like fucking right now?

Well, a bunch. He's fucking a lot. Remember, he's going to those back houses still. He is sometimes is just going like it's not just any time that he's having sex. He's killing. Correct. Sometimes just. Yeah. He's just being like a super horny, gay dude. Yeah. And never say to remember in the last episode, we talked about how he would constantly say he wished that they would just lie there and do nothing. And then he had nine total incidents

at the bathhouse before they fucking kicked him out. That is just that is just like in like how imagine finding that. Imagine fine. You're being that you're the guy in charge of the bathhouse. And then you're like, that was who? Yeah, God, God, that would be the worst. And it's yeah, it's just again, a different time as well that this 14 year old would go back. And it's so weird because we're going to talk about it later in this episode.

But it seems like a molestation was just way more acceptable back then. Like in the 60s through the 80s, it seemed like everybody was getting a little bit of finger on the ball situation because the way another victim speaks about it later, it seems so like he expected it. Like there was no no surprise. Wasn't he wasn't he a sex worker? You're thinking of a different one, which we won't be getting to right away. We're getting you're thinking of somebody else, which is a different

a different story who was a 14 year old. There's multiple 14 year olds. There's and there's a 13 year old, a 14 year old. There's yeah, I'm sorry to ruin it. But there's the last thing you should have. That's the worst. That's the last thing you could have said. That's the absolute worst thing you could have said.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I just can't confuse your 14 year old. You're right. I was. I was confusing my 14 year old. I was confusing my 14 year old sex murder victims. Yeah, this one was not a sex worker. He was running away from home looking for a place to say when they returned back his grandmother's asleep.

And yeah, they went after messing around the room. They went to the basement. And again, there was no reason for them to go to the basement. But and they didn't even do anything right away down there. They just spent time together for a while down there. But I get the question is why even go there? Is it Dahmer wouldn't go there? I don't think if unless he was planning on being violent

or doing something nefarious with him, no matter what he says otherwise. And as the night went later and early morning was just around the corner, Doctor Tor told Dahmer that he couldn't stay too late into the morning and would have to leave in just a few hours. And much like we know of his first kill, this seemed to trigger something in Dahmer to make him act. He served him one last drink, heavily mixed with sleeping pills and let them kick in.

Eventually, the boy fell asleep on Dahmer's lap where Dahmer cuddled him until the sun began to rise in a very methodical way. Once the sun was up, Dahmer stood up and laid out a white sheet on the floor, then laid the boy out on it and strangled him quietly. He then quietly went upstairs to have his morning breakfast with his grandmother, like nothing with what's happening while Doctor Tor's body lay in the fruit cellar.

The body would lay there with Dahmer occasionally visiting it for weeks until his own grandmother spoke up about something smelling in the basement, which reminisces reminiscent of John Wayne Gacy. And remember the whole stink coming up from his crawl space is what triggered the initial investigations. Dahmer simply said that it was the cat litter and he would take care of it. And that following Sunday, Dahmer did the exact same thing he did with Steve Tuimus with the remains of Doctor Tor

with one notable exception. After smashing the bones to dust and getting rid of the body in the same way where he put it out on the street corner for the trash, he kept the head. His plan was to keep the head indefinitely, saying that when he brought it out, it felt like he was with Steve again. He boiled the head to rid it of the flesh and then boiled it in bleach with his method.

But his methods ended up making the bone very brittle. And after wait, Steve. The first guy, they're both named Steve. What? Steve is Steve the hitchhiker than Steve Tuomi, which was the guy who was in the hotel room. There is two Steve's. His first two victims were Steve and Steve.

Right. OK, so whose skull are we talking about right now? Right now, we're talking about Doctor Tor. We're saying he did to Doctor Tor's remains. The same thing he did that Steve Tuomi's remains, with the exception that he kept Doctor Tor's head. But he did not keep Steve's head. No, he did not. He boiled Doctor Tor's head with bleach

and to clean it and get rid of the remnants of the skin. But doing this made the bone too brittle. And he says after two weeks, he had to dispose of the skull as it was falling apart and riddle for what? He would. Hey, yeah. Do you really want to? Is that a rhetorical question? Alex, you know what?

If that's not part of the episode, let's not get it. Yeah, I didn't write down that was part of the episode. I figured we would move on from that point. The last victim to fall, the last victim to fall to Dahmer while he lived with his grandmother was a man by the name of Richard Guillero. He offered Richard the same thing he offered the last victim, $50 to spend the night with him. And when they returned to the house,

his grandmother had already gone to bed. They went into his bedroom, had sex, and only after two hours, Dahmer had decided it was time for him to die. After Guillero passed out from the drink, Dahmer strangled him, sexually abused the corpse for hours after wood and would not wait. But he would not wait a week this time to remove the corpse. The day he brought him home was Sunday, after all. And his grandmother was going to be out today.

So instead of letting the body rot for a week, he took he took to what he was getting accustomed to doing again. This member chopped up and smashed the pieces of his latest victim. The only difference is he once again kept the skull. But this time boiled it in a diluted bleach mixture and was able to actually clean it and keep the skull intact. And much like before, this skull would be brought out time and again to save his fantasies, desires and even simply his loneliness.

As once again, having the skull out made it feel like he was connected to him. As just mid sentence, I watched Jesse whip his head back and forth and his head disappears into his palm. I can't tell if he sees people as things with which he can control and own or if it's in the same vein of a hunter who kills a deer and then puts their head on a on the mantle or whatever or on the wall. I'm thinking more. I'm thinking more like a doom three level designer.

Sure. Sure. But that demon who put that skull in that room and doom and doom. My question is, is that demon one that love that skull? Like, I really appreciate that skull. Or is that demon like, you know, it was either that or a vase. I don't know. I think it's I think it is. I think it is that I think it's just like he's a demonic, evil person. So he's got he doesn't care about some some certain things.

But I think he likes the skull. I think because I think it's both. But I really care because there's a sexual aspect to it. Like he's proud of it. And he wants to rub up on the skull. And I'm not over here like, you know, this controller. You know what I mean? Like it isn't. You all miss everyone at home, miss me rubbing a controller on my body. So I liked it for him. It was it was I think it's both.

I think I think there is a part of him that the member he's always been enjoyed like taxidermy of some kind skulls and rotting animals for their bones and shit. But there is a huge part of it that is into him in his mind somewhere. Like he's spending time with this person that like he has them forever. They will forever be with him as a part of him. And that line of thought eventually brings him to cannibalism later. Controls. Oh, you know what? That is one hundred. Yeah. All right. That checks out.

I think the word I think the word we're looking for here, honestly. And I know this is like oversimplifying a little bit. But I genuinely think the word we're looking for is just that it was his hobby. I mean, in a way, I don't know. There it's it's there's like a possessive nature to it. And what Mathis was just saying, I think it's fascinating because the idea of. I own a thing is like, well, eventually you you won't anymore. Eventually, whatever that thing is, you will no longer.

But if I were to eat it and make it part of me, then could I ever really lose it? Yeah. And that's what we get to. Is it now a part like that's a whole like that is that that that's the kind of thing where it's it's that trophy. Like if I can't have, you know, one will idea of just it's that level of like if you I'm the one who can love you and prevent you from being loved by anyone else. I'm going to kill you like that. It's that level 100 percent.

But I for some reason, I believe that Dahmer is the one who starts to like interior decorate a little bit with. Oh, he does. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's why I say it's I think it's a it's a little of both. But I think the majority of it is that weird possession part of me kind of thing. It's like it's like, yeah, it's like half that and half like your dorm like getting your dorm to look your game room. Well, no, he just hung out a piece.

Remember, he got to hang up that picture of that vice president whose name I already forgot Madison, something, something Madison. Remember, James Madison? No, no, not James Madison. Oh, God, man, talk or whatever. There was a vice president. He hung up the only thing he hung up in his dorm room that he spent five months before he went home too drunk to go to school.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't remember who it was, but I'm just saying like, OK, like, for example, right, like I have like. Or maybe not me, I'm not the best example, but like I know a lot of video game players who have like shelves where they have like colored lights and like a box art that sits there as you look behind me. And it's just like yours is like a bookshelf. Like I'm talking about the people who like they have a set when they stream

and they have like, you know, here's my like Xbox achievement trophy that lights up whenever I get an achievement. And it's next to my like Xbox controller that I don't use, but it's like a cool custom color that I like to fuel mini fridge. Like, I think I think half of it is what all three of those things. Yeah, I wish I had all of them, but that's what I'm saying. I think half of it is what Jesse saying, like to a T like part of me. It's like mine. I'm it. It's me.

But then I also think it's just like like MMO, create a character type shit. Like you're just trying to look awesome in your in your little den like the same way anybody is. Well, it's a gamer cave. Remember that thought because I think that thought is going to come back towards the end of this episode. I like that thought. So when it comes to Dahmer's victims and we typically only know

the little bits that lead up to it, excuse me, the little bits that lead up to it. And then obviously the crime itself. We very rarely get a look into how Dahmer acted prior to the murders happening. But after the Gero crime that he went through, Dahmer had an encounter with another potential victim that ended up getting away in a very bizarre fashion. So a man by the name of Ronald Flowers was at Club 219.

The night Dahmer approached him when he was on the pay phone. Flowers car was dead and he was attempting to find a ride or somebody to jump his vehicle. Dahmer approached and seeing that he had trouble offered him a ride cab back to his cab ride, rather back to his place where they'd grab his car and then head back and jump this man's vehicle. Of course, Dahmer didn't have a frickin car. You would think if he did, he would drove into the club. But Flowers agreed and hopped into the cab with Dahmer.

Flowers notes that in the cab ride, the way Dahmer acted was very suspicious. He completely avoided eye contact, was difficult to have genuine, just regular conversation with and spent a good time of his or a good chunk of his time when he did talk complaining about his family, life, etc., being a very kind of just depressive individual. As you would imagine, Dahmer probably was. Eventually, they arrived back at Dahmer's place, entered the front door and were greeted with the distant voice of Dahmer's grandmother, asking if Dahmer

with everything was all right, to which Dahmer replied, yes. And he was only grabbing a cup of coffee from the kitchen. And I think this is maybe what saved Flowers that night, that his grandmother was awake. How the fuck didn't this happen every time? Right? Yeah. It was first of all, she was asleep every time. And it was his grandmother's house, not the apartment.

We're not in an apartment right now. We are in his grandmother's home. But how big is the house? A couple bedroom, like two bedrooms, a kitchen. It's a one, you know, single floor, small house. But he has it, but he has the basement. He has the basement. He has the fruit seller downstairs, which is where he takes them.

I just could not imagine being in a house with someone that I'm living with. And hiding the fact that I'm murdering people in the house that we're both in. Yeah, it seems so crazy to me that this is the first time that she has any inkling that there's somebody there. Well, OK, it's also important to know and we'll talk. Well, it's going to come up again. But his grandmother was aware that he was going out late.

Remember, that's why he rented hotel rooms most of the time, because his grandmother didn't like him coming home late. It was not very Christian. And his grandmother was aware of him bringing home strange friends. And that's how she referred to them. Strange friends, which was just her way of being like Dahmer was gay. And it made me uncomfortable. Flowers after noting that Dahmer seemed to reply to his grandmother,

implying he was alone, noted that after they got to the kitchen, Dahmer was very visibly anxious and openly shaking. After a small drink of coffee, he then notes that's when he started to get sleepy and flowers began blacking out and passing out. Oh, was it the coffee? He drugged. Yeah, he drugged the coffee. Gotcha, gotcha. Yep. Only to wake up two days later in the hospital.

Oh, being informed that he was found out in a field lying there somewhere. There were no signs of drugs in the system, no signs of sexual assault on his body. But his bracelet and two hundred dollars were missing. His brother had to come and actually pick him up from the hospital. And Flowers notes that he found two bruise marks around his neck and his underwear was inside out. Now. Did he did he rob him? Seemingly, yes, Dahmer did.

Yes, seemingly. Whoa. Now, I want to point something out about Flowers in particular. While Flowers absolutely was a victim of Dahmer and was drugged by Dahmer and likely abused by Dahmer, Flowers over the years story changed a lot. Not the details of Dahmer taking him, but what Dahmer was doing when he went there. Initially, it was just this short story. Then it became it became so elaborate that Dahmer was at one point,

according to one of his stories, humming and chanting to himself, sitting on the ground while holding a knife, which didn't really fit again. Dahmer as an individual. That's not how he does it. That's not how he did it at this point. I also think a lot of it, too, you know, kind of looking at the history and his multiple interviews. I think Flowers was also not willing to admit that he went back not for car troubles, but that he was actually also gay

since they were at Club 219 and was hiding the fact that he was going back, maybe with with Dahmer initially for sexual reasons and really was trying to hide a lot of the truth. So so what is what you're saying is an 80s sucked for being a gay man? Yes, by forcing those in the gay community to remain silent on their sexual preferences. It allowed for creeps like Dahmer and other to prey on them. And it made it hard for police or anyone trying to stop it

from actually being able to stop it because everyone was too afraid of the cultural repercussions of them being out and openly gay. Is that kind of what you call me by? I got I think you might be on to something, Jesse. I think you might be on something couple with the fact that all of his victims were minority people of like Latin descent, black folk. Like everybody was also something the cops had this inherited at especially in the 80s, bigoted, ignorant kind of look at.

You know what I mean? This racism that may or may not be built into the time period of the 80s. And you know, still today. So again, flowers was absolutely a victim of of Dahmer. And I think his initial and the man. Yeah. And of society. But I also think his first story is probably the most true where Dahmer was likely shaking and anxious and awkward and whiny.

And then they likely like maybe had a few drinks or whatever. And then he passed out and doesn't know what happened for two days. And he was found, which is which is crazy because if his grandmother is the thing that stopped Dahmer, why didn't he just wait until his grandmother to sleep and then continue on with what he was doing? I also at this point need to say that flowers in a later story says the reason he initially got away was that he actually put up a fight and tried to fight Dahmer and passed out somewhere away from the apartment building.

Again, the details of what happens when he gets to the house, not the apartment, the house, rather get more elaborate and change as his story progresses over the years. Whatever the case, I think that this would, you know, this initial look at Dahmer's behavior according to flowers is probably the most correct. Just an awkward, nervous dude who just wanted to get to the end of it and get what he wanted and not really care. So you get the sense that he doesn't have he doesn't like like killing even at all. Like he's he's reluctantly killing.

I think Dahmer sees. Yeah, I think Dahmer sees killing Israel. I don't think I don't think Dahmer ever took pleasure in killing. It wasn't what he was doing it for. I think Dahmer saw as an almost a nuisance that he to get what he wants. He has to do this act that is violent and horrible and sometimes difficult. And like he has to get blackout drunk to do it a lot of the times. But I don't think he truly felt regret for taking a life.

He just didn't like doing it because it was a hassle. Moving on, though, still unlike the unlike the others, though, after this, after this and after the hospital visit, flowers did go to the police and reported Dahmer for what happened. And on April 5th, flowers brought the police to Dahmer's grandmother's house where they interviewed him and Dahmer and of course scared the shit out of his grandmother. She had no idea what was going on. And Dahmer, of course, denied everything the police said,

saying that flowers didn't get drugged. He had simply drank too much, was way too drunk. And Dahmer was being a good Samaritan, taking him home and taking care of him in the meantime. And the cops were more than happy to hand wave the whole thing away. And since flowers had no actual physical proof of anything, nothing came of it. If you've ever had to deal with a plumbing problem, you may have felt the pain of realizing you don't know any plumbers.

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I feel a bit tuckered out actually. Am I still supposed to be repeating after you? No, not at night. To manifest car insurance made easy, go to Geico.com. Ronald Flowers would go on to say he saw Dahmer at Club 219 one more time and actually approached him asking him, do you remember who I am? To which Dahmer said he didn't. And Ronald claims that he lunged at him, attacking him, saying,

you attacked me and you drugged me, screaming at Club 219. And whatever guy Dahmer was talking to at the moment, warned him not to go home with this guy. He can't be trusted. He'll do something awful. And the guy apparently got up and walked away and Dahmer eventually left the club pretty early that night with having that huge scene play out. Hell yeah, hell yeah.

He was embarrassed. Yeah, damn right. That man saved my life. Yes, damn right. Yeah, he very well likely saved a life on that night. The incident with Flowers would be the final one in his grandmother's house. His grandmother had become very uncomfortable with Dahmer's odd hours. The bar hopping and his alcoholism with his whole family was well aware

he was back into again and the rain random strangers that he brought home from time to time that she called his strange friends. They even attempted the family did to get Dahmer tested for alcoholism. But that only lasted four sessions before Dahmer just stopped going. Way to take in with his new obsession, knowing that alcohol was kind of the key to getting what he wanted. In the weeks leading up to him eventually moving out of the house because his family had made the decision that he should probably leave

his grandmother's house with how uncomfortable she was. He couldn't indulge in his fantasies. But Dahmer had taken up a new obsession at home in the meantime. And no, it isn't collecting dead bodies like a child. Dahmer had become obsessed with Star Wars return of the Jedi. And he watched it on the television. On repeat multiple times a week at his house with his grandmother. So obsessed with the movie that it was pretty much the only thing he watched.

I get it. But you might not get this part because more specifically he was a huge fan of the emperor. Even buying yellow eye contacts that he could wear around to look more like him and to be more like the Star Wars emperor. The Star Wars emperor from Return of the Jedi. The dude who gets thrown down a pit. Yeah, he loved the emperor.

It was his favorite character. He bought yellow contacts. He fell to the dark side IRL. Yes. That is comical is the right word, but like it shouldn't be like that's so ridiculous. It's fucked up to me because I have this visual of of Dahmer's like altar in my brain. Yes, which yeah, well, we'll get into more next episode. But I did not know that he has like a fixation on Sheev Palpatine.

Yes, not only that, but now if you look at the Netflix poster, now it'll make sense why his eyes are yellow. Yeah, OK, well, there you go. That's all he wore them during killing sometimes. But, you know, he he I don't know what it was. I don't know why the emperor called to him. I think he was just like he he's like trying to accept that he's an evil individual and he can be like the emperor.

Maybe it's how he saw himself. You know, as a kid, I wanted electric hands, too. So I get it. I mean, that would have been. Yeah, I mean, I did try to barter with the devil, you know. But I also predict this. Yeah, I also wasn't like 25 murdering people. Then, you know, I've always wanted to say so be it. I think he think he said that.

And he put 100 percent. He did 100 percent. He was like, yes, yes. He did the whole thing. If he was if he would have been around for episode one, two and three, he definitely would have been like, no, no. He would have done the whole thing. Yeah, he would have been.

He would have been one of the ones dressed up, going to the premiere every time. Absolutely. Luckily, he did not watch episode nine or he would have somehow come back to life. Somehow. Oh, God. At this point in Dahmer's life, he was taking yet another step toward what I consider the surreal. Dahmer was finally beginning to take steps toward another deep twisted fantasy that he'd been planning for many years, his own personal alter

and yet more grandiose. He is his desire to create his own temple. He purchased a long black table and two statues of griffins to sit alongside it. It's going to sound like Emperor Palpatine makes this so much weirder. And for him, these griffins were there to be protectors of his altar as it came to being. Well, of course, his imperial guards. Yeah, if he had one of those one of those chairs that had like the big back

that like turned and moved, they could swivel. Oh, dude, wait till you just. It was like always looking out a window when someone would enter the room. He's always looking away that he swivels around, like, dude. Well, you laugh, but the big chair was part of the design. We will talk about that. Not this episode that'll be in the in the next in the final Dahmer episode. Yeah, I need to say I did. I needed to say this. What a fucking goober.

Yeah, no shit. Oh, man, it's it's his fucking. There's even a picture of him drawn sketch of the plant. We'll talk about it. I promise you even worse than being like a fucking stupid ass Joker guy. Right. It is. It's I do. I think it's worse. I think it's worse. Oh, and I think some of Sam's son of Sam would be a Joker guy.

Sure. Oh, sure. Dude, you will see that. Wait, just wait when we talk about him. Yeah. Taxi driver like that is vibes. Yeah, I can now that you've now that you've said this is correct. The whole thing open for me. That's all I see is some like prancing around in like a black robe. Like I'm going to do it in the background during a lot of his murders.

The movie he would have on in the background often. And it was The Exorcist Three. Oh, that was his favorite movie. And he would play the Exorcist Three plus some weird music while he poisoned in like planned on killing them. I'm afraid your friends on the central moon. That's the scene. So, you know, you would have been you would have been having a great time at

Dommers, you would have been having a rum and coke, feeling sleepy and giggling at you would have got you, you would have been a Dommar victim. You would have got you right in with the return of the dead. Any serial killer were to get you out, Jesse, would you think it would be Dommar? Um, no, it may change as we do more serial killers. I'll be really, it would definitely be like Brandy Doss, who's like being all nice and loving on you.

Yeah, I'd be like, oh, I'm going to help this lady out. And she'd be like, you're dead. And we're like, oh, moving forward after buying those tables. It wouldn't be too long before he would be moving into his new apartment. And in June of 1988, Dommar moved into the now demolished, infamous location of the majority of his worst crimes, 808 North 24th Street. Life for Dommar continued on the surface to be extremely boring. He would tend to his day job at the chocolate factory,

stirring up chocolate, then go home or hit the bars and get drunk or maybe hit one of the bathhouses and get laid. Dommar was sated, but only for a few months again before going back onto the streets and looking for his first victim in his new place with all the privacy he could hope for in an apartment. Anyway, it's here where Dommar, it's here. I think Dommar also much more quickly vanishes to the police as though they kind of like put on Dommar invisibility glasses.

Dommar was living in a very poor part of town in a primary. I think everybody but Dommar in the apartment was also black. Like he completely in a point where like the police ignore. And while living here, Dommar was an investigated question and even arrested multiple times for very similar crimes that we'll always get to. And for various reasons, he was always let go for whatever. Sometimes it was because of the sexuality thing implied where the cops just didn't care enough to investigate a complaint.

There's one lady who went to the cops three or four times and they never even came to the apartment to look at things. So it's not that people didn't know shit was going down. The cops just didn't care. The first time when he was pulled over, you can almost almost kind of excuse that the other way the cops like mishandling of the situation almost. He did pass that drunk test. And, you know, even with the trash bags that were smelling in the back,

I guess you could kind of see how they may just be lazy for the night and let him go. But it was. But while he lived in this apartment, that incompetence and bigotry that the police possessed, especially at this time, was as great as shield and his spree in this apartment had a chance to be stopped well before it ever got underway. On Monday, September 26th at three thirty in the afternoon at the Milwaukee School of Arts, a Laotian boy named Somsak Sinath's a phone was approached from behind by a tall glasses

wearing murderer by, of course, the name Jeffrey Dahmer. And if I butchered that name, I apologize, but I feel like I did a pretty good job. I pray. What year is this? 1988. OK. Still in the late eighties. Right. When he approached the boy, Dahmer pulled out his Polaroid camera and pitched the idea that had quickly become his go to. He wanted to test out his new camera and would pay the boy fifty bucks to come back to his place and let him take some pictures with his new camera.

Even Dahmer, even when as far as is saying that he had already asked everybody in the schoolyard already and everybody said no. So please, could you just help me out? If I was that boy, that would have been a red flag. Like everybody said no, I'm good. But that apparently worked and the boy agreed. And Dahmer took the boy not one block away to his apartment. He was one block away from the school.

Somsak had asked Dahmer if he would need to strip or not. And with Dahmer dismissing it, saying it doesn't even matter. And this is what I was talking about earlier. He like asks. He's the one that asked Dahmer initially, like, so am I stripping here? Or like, it almost feels like he expected it. He knew it. And Dahmer was like, he just kind of said, it doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter. And then further, Somsak then asked if it was for his personal collection or if this was like a professional thing. And Dahmer replied that it was just a new hobby of his. So some of this boy is just like, he's like, I know how this goes. Give me the fifty bucks. You'll get to look at my little boy body for a little bit and we'll be on our way. It's very strange. I know it's very strange.

Well, when they entered the apartment, then Dahmer told him to remove his shirt. And when the boy pushed back, asking that because he said it didn't matter before, Dahmer insisted now, saying it would make for a better picture. Once the shirt was off, Dahmer got Dahmer commented that Somsak had, quote, a very nice body and began taking photos. Further directing him to then lay on the bed, place his hands behind his head, where he took more pictures of Somsak. Afterward, they went into his kitchen where Dahmer made them both coffee

with one being much more drugged than the other. And at Dahmer's insistence, some say Somsak drank it all and rather quickly. After finishing the coffee, they moved back to the living room where more photos were supposed to be taken. Once again, his shirt had to come off. But this time Dahmer asked him to unzip his zipper and unbutton his pants for the photo. Already starting to already rather feeling completely off and afraid, he partially complied, unzipping it about halfway.

But Dahmer didn't take to that and stepped forward, forcibly zipping, unzipping it completely. And then without hesitation, reaching in and exposing the boy, trying to molest him, saying, quote, you know, I want more than a picture. Somsak immediately wrenched away and demanded to be let go. And as he was going for the door, Dahmer vocally shouted out at him and asked him to stop saying, do me a favor, quote, do me a favor before you leave. Come and sit beside me.

So he went and sat beside Dahmer. I don't know why that was his decision. He says, you know, he probably told me to let him go. He probably just told him, I'll let you go if you do this. But once he sat down, the next request got even weirder. Dahmer said he wanted to hear the boy's stomach. So he placed his head up against his exposed abdomen and just gently rested his head there for a little while.

And at this point, I know it's very remember, he's obsessed with torsos. Like he's like weirdly up. That's like his loves that torso. Yeah. And Somsak started getting nervous and afraid. And after a little bit of time of him resting his head and being cradled on the boy's stomach, Dahmer began to gently lick and kiss at his stomach from navel to groin. Somsak jumped up, scared and started to feel sick and went to leave.

Once again, Dahmer shouted out and stopped him saying, Hey, don't forget your fifty dollars and don't tell anyone. OK, handing the boy fifty dollars and letting him leave. Which is very strange. Somsak immediately left and went home where he became groggy, instantly confused and soon his father couldn't wake him. He took the boy to the hospital and while at the hospital, Somsak would be detained there for a few hours where he told police every detail.

How is this not where this ended? Isn't that a nice question, isn't it? Afterward, he took them to 24th Street and pointed out Dahmer's apartment, where it took them very little time to identify the suspect. The next day, the police went directly to Ambrosia Chocolate Factory and in the middle of his shift, arrested Dahmer then and there for, quote, second degree sexual assault and enticing a child for immoral purposes. How many people has he killed at this point?

Four, we are on. Yeah, I believe that he is totally done. Yes, four, four, he's done. And he killed 17. Yes. After. Getting arrested for kidnapping, drugging and sexually abusing a kid.

Yes. And very likely planning on killing that kid 100 percent. I mean, the fact that I am surprised that Dahmer got to put his head on the boy's chest and the boy got away when he went back to go sit down like for, I think, most of the victims, that's that's the end of the story for them. But he I don't know why, but Dahmer, for for this particular one, like, let him go without a fight.

Without without even trying to stop him beyond the vocal asking. Like, in other cases, he does make aggressive physical attempts at stopping people from leaving, but this one, he doesn't. OK. So at this point, he gets brought afterward, rather, some sack, then brings the police to his apartment on 24th Street and pointed out Dahmer's apartment where it took them very little time to identify Dahmer, like I said.

And they arrested him in the Ambrosia Chocolate Factory. When he got arrested, Dahmer seemed more embarrassed with the public arrests rather than the crimes themselves and was taken to jail, where he would spend six days in anxiety and panic as the police were to go through his apartment meticulously. And they did go through his apartment. What they found were the and what they found were removed were the Polaroid Camera, photos of Somsack,

a bottle of Bailey's Irish Cream, some male nude magazines and sleeping pills. And a couple skulls. What they neglected to somehow find was the preserved skull of Richard Guerro, who was still that was still in Dahmer's possession and regularly being brought out for use. So use. No, I don't want to know. You you I think you know. I think you unfortunately mean we already described it to us last time.

I have a basic I have a basic idea, but I just I can't imagine doing that more than one time. Like I can't imagine doing it. And then last time he kept the head until it rotted. I'm just saying like doing that one time, going through that experience of being like, I'm going to try that again later. Just say I'm going to perfected the craft. You got the mixture.

Right. If you don't think of it as like a rotting person, if you don't think of it, if it's just like. A thing, just a flashlight, you can see how you would. Yeah, I mean, like you can see that is a man's head. Yeah, I mean, yeah, you're right. I'm just saying if you don't think that way, like that is a thing. I show my wiener to it's a different it's a it's a different thought process. You're a hundred percent right about that.

It is a very different thought process. Shout outs to my Wild Wild West fans in the audience. So it's at this point we see the police mess up again. And in my opinion, this this is the first fuck up from the cops. That is so V. Oopsy, little Oopsy from the police. And so Jeff was arrested for six days. And after they went through his apartment and didn't find anything, they brought him to court and the judge sentenced him to what else than

a year in prison followed by two years of basically probation outside of it. But before he went to prison, he was ordered to have a psychological evaluation. And having heard of the crime of his son, Lionel came down to visit him. It's here where Lionel learned that Jeffrey Dahmer, his son, was indeed gay. The Dahmers, according to Dahmer, his father took it, quote, relatively well and didn't say much about it, asking why Dahmer didn't tell him earlier, where Dahmer says he was embarrassed, which I honestly, I think that's true. They were very his father was very religious as well.

I bet you was not, you know, it's not a time where coming out was, you know, really remotely like a thing that you could do. It just makes me so sad to think about that. It just makes me so sad to think about how many people just wanted to tell someone they're gay. It's infuriating. It's it's nuts. But moreover, his father actually attempted to set things right. Still, he approached the he had a talk to the judge and spoke to the therapist that they were seeing and urged them to reconsider a sentencing that he feared

that if Jeffrey Dahmer had hit the streets again, he would simply slip back into his old repeated behaviors and more terrible things would happen. Little did he know what terrible things his son had already done. And Dr. Lottel, the first doctor to look over and meet with Dahmer over the period of many different meetings, wrote essentially a scathing review of Dahmer, saying that he was not suited remotely to be going out, that he seemed like he would absolutely perform more crimes and that when they did speak with him, he was agitated, withdrawn, giving monosyllable responses to all

questions and just kind of, in my mind, almost like a toddler that got caught, you know, just kind of being shut down and not wanting to play. It's like Buster Bluth when he learns to curl into a ball. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny how Gacy was similar when he went to prison, too. Remember, he'd fake being having a heart attack to get out of being beaten up for his own shit, but still his father wanted to ensure that he was getting the correct diagnosis and went for a second opinion.

And Dr. Goldfarb would be the next one to see Dahmer, who would write an even more scathing review of Dahmer, how he shouldn't be released. In all of this review, I guess that's a weird way to put it. He just like a very pandemic variety, a very negative outlook for Dahmer's future if he was let back out on the streets. And they were both sent to the judge. Everything was looked at by the by the judge and the like. And yet his sentence never changed.

But Dahmer would still spend some time in prison before being let back out. And that's where we're going to pick up the final episode of Jeffrey Dahmer, his life in prison, the weird friends he made and his final spree over the course of just about two years to kill 15 other rather at this point. Sorry, 13 other boys and men. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Next week, unfortunately, we'll be not we won't be Dahmer part four. I'm going to be in LA for the next week or so.

So we won't have really a time for me to put it together. Chillamonati.com, Alex's big smile, not Jesse's big smile. Just gonna suck a fat one, get out of here. But if you want to break, if you want to make Jesse smile, bring your redheaded friends. I'll give you I'll give you a tip audience. It's really easy to make Jesse smile. I don't even know what that means, but like you can find out.

I think you're right. Chillamonati.com, we're off to record a mini so for a Patreon or a patreon.com. That's really not a pod. We'll be back next week with a mini so compilation or something of the sort. Thank you guys so much for listening and we'll see you next time. Mary, my cohost today. We're all working to innovate and do more in our work days.

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