Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 196 - Alfred Packer Part 2: Lawyer Blue Balls

Episode Date: March 18, 2023

Trust the Nutter Patreon - http://www.patreon.com/chilluminatipod BUY OUR MERCH - http://www.theyetee.com/collections/chilluminati Special thanks to our sponsors this episode - EVERYONE AT HTTP://PATREON.COM/CHILLUMINATIPOD HelloFresh - http://www.hellofresh.com/chill60 Promo Code: chill60 Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - http://www.youtube.com/user/superbeardbros Editor - DeanCutty http://www.twitter.com/deancutty Art Commissioned by - http://www.mollyheadycarroll.com Theme - Matt Proft End song - POWER FAILURE - https://soundcloud.com/powerfailure Video - http://www.twitter.com/digitalmuppet

Weddings, college graduations, your stepmom placing third in a dog rooming competition. We've all got reasons to gift this summer, so give them something they'll love, drinks, and get them all from Drizly, the go-to app for alcohol delivery. With Drizly, you can shop local stores and compare prizes on beer, wine, spirits, then get them delivered in time for your summer celebrations. Download the Drizly app or go to drizzly.com. That's D-R-I-Z-L-Y dot com today. Ding dong, it's Drizly. Must be 21-plus, not available in all locations. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Chaluminati Podcast, episode 196,

down to four episodes left before the big 200. After, as always, I am one of your hosts, Mike Martin. Join today by the comedy duo known as Straight Jacket from LA, Jesse and Alex. I don't know what that means. What did you say? Straight Jacket? Also known as Tom Beckett and Ian Todd. Hey. No? Tom Beckett and Ian Todd sound like the villains. The guys. They sound like the villains from parts of the Caribbean. I'll be real. The group known as Straight Jacket were comedy duo from Northeast England who wrote a bunch of original comedy sketches.

I'm going to make a call here for the show, just for the sake of the show. Let's never pull random English comedy duos again. I can't promise you that because the subreddit loves it. What if instead you take the list of random English comedy duos you googled, throw it in the garbage bin, and you get stuff people know? Yeah, but did you not know that Straight Jacket attracted praise from both press, locally and nationally? I did not know because no one knew, because nobody cared. In 2006, the group was discovered by Naomi Odenkirk, who introduced them to her husband,

Bob Odenkirk, who championed their comedy in America, entering their work into festivals and screenings. Jesse? She's like nepotism. Do you think that they're called Straight Jacket because they're like so funny that it's crazy? You'll be bouncing off the walls. You think it's just so nuts when you go to a Straight Jacket show that they gotta tie them up? Yeah, you'll think you're crazy with how funny it is. You think you've worn a long sleeve shirt before? Bitch. They taped in 2008 with Bob Odenkirk, a TV pilot titled Straight Jacket Real Life,

spent R-E-E, spelt R-E-E-L life. Dude, these guys are hard. The only one that's actually working now is Tom Bennett, who is working on a variety of sitcoms and recording voiceovers. There you go. Tom, get it, Tom. Great. He's worked with EA Games, Nike, Honda. He's done a lot ever since. What if next time you're like the Jean-Claude Van Damme and Tom Hanks of LA? I love both of those guys. That makes sense. I know what you're talking about. Were they in a movie together? No, but they're two people. No, they're not a duo, though. They're not a duo.

Everyone's a duo if there's two of them. You're my duo, all right? When I saw you up on the live stage in PAX East back in the day, and I watched the two of you interact, that's when I knew you two were the ones I needed to do the podcast with. You were the duo I was looking for. That's what you saw? That is what I saw. That is what I saw. Alex and I have never been a duo, though. Well, I turned you into one, and that's what CEOs do. I create teams. You were clearly a trio. I don't think you know what a duo means.

I am separate from you because I live far away. If anyone is the duo, it's the believer and the skeptic, right? I'm just kind of like the fucking pickle, right? What? Yeah, he's the pickle on the side, yeah. You're the pickle on the side. Some people like it. Some people don't. It's just weird. It's offbeat. It's green. It's weird. It doesn't go in the sand. Yeah, why is it there? It's on the side. What's that juice coming out of it? What is that?

How do they make it taste like that? Is it good? I can't tell if it's rotten or not. Yeah, it's so briny. It's like Alex. So briny. How about every time it's just Jesse's, you and Jesse are a sandwich, and I'm just a pickle every time. What if next episode, instead of random people, no one knows, you go, it's me, Mathis and Jesse, the Rubin of the internet, and our pickle on the side, Alex. Or maybe it's Mathis and Jesse, the BLT with extra macaroni salad, and Alex on the side. And that's me. I'm the salad. You want me to turn you into food instead of famous

celebrities from England? Famous celebrities is a relative term, my friend. Let me just, and I am going to quote this. This is from at Telly Deluxe on Twitter. Of all things my British years expected to get from listening to Trulluminati today, don't think any part of my being expected to hear anything about the Mighty Boosh. They recognized, they're recognized. Yeah, but the Mighty Boosh is good. So that's what they, you never know if you're going to get anything good or bad out of me. I'm like a grab bag. I'm like a, I'm like a giant surprise egg, kinder egg. Yeah. Crack me open and get the treats.

Yeah, no, I mean, you are. You're like a, you're like a, like a lunch bag, but inside you either get like a day old bagel or a steak knife. There is no in between. And speaking of turning people into food, let's head over to patreon.com slash TrulluminatiPod to tell you about this. If you really liked our episode about, what's his name Todd Packer? Todd? Alfred Packer. You're thinking of the office. Whatever. Todd Packer, the guy who's just like an absolute complete. What's his name? Michael Skarn? Whatever his name is. Head over to patreon.com slash TrulluminatiPod. Not only do you get the excellent episodes like this one without any ads, you know, you get a mini so every single time right after with a brand new

weird right off the presses, a current event, a current weird event. And usually math is unspooling a little further in the battle between himself and the American government and their disclosure of whether or not there's aliens in the sky until you want today. If you head over there and you listen and you sign up, I got an alien sighting for you guys that I'm going to talk about on the mini-soad. So that's a little preview. I brought science this time. I felt the pull brought me elsewhere for the mini-soad. I've got science to talk about another new breakthrough in science. I'm very excited for. Yeah. And go check out our movie show, Rotten Popcorn. There's plenty more episodes of it where we watch along with movies just like

that show with the robots that that guy made to not go crazy in that space station. No, come on over. Check it out. What? This is weird. No, we did. This is new and original. Yeah. It's like Alex and Mathis and Jesse. Yeah. Anyway, we're delicious. Alfred Packer is here and he's going to eat you. Let's find out how. Are you ready for Alfred Packer? I'm I've been ready. Like the fact that the fact that this guy didn't have like a life of like of like awful human rights abuses against him and he just had a real bad week. I'm like, I'm here for this. I'm here for this type of chaos. I don't think any of you are really ready for this kind of like episode. It's the final one. The final Alfred Packer episode and his story just gets weird and there's an element of who

done it to it as we're getting to the further into this episode we go. So much more exciting that he that there's a who done it. Then like he drilled into the front forehead of a teenage boy and sucked out his brain. He just wanted a cock sucking zombie. That's all he wanted. Okay. All right. And it just it couldn't work. He tried back down from that one. I'm gonna think like we cross a line in these episodes. You ever think like we in the episode like halfway through? You ever you ever worry that that we're like creating an audience of degenerates? My mic just fell down. You ever worry about that that one day this might all come back to bite us in the ass? Um, nah, nah, nah. Like some sort of cannibal? No. Cannibal. Look what he did.

He brought it back around. He brought it back around. I tried. I really tried. You did. I appreciate that. Yeah, we're going back into the world of the 1800s, old west, a land of no rules, laws, really anything. People could just do whatever the fuck they wanted. And we got real, we got real clear on that last time. You could just do anything. You could just be like, uh, I'm a fucking expert. What's up? Yeah, I'm a wilderness expert. I knowed all the countryside. Come with me. And everybody's like, he does. That's because I was in the wilderness living, surviving. Come on. Follow me there. Well, when we last left old fraud, Alfred Packer, Fred Packer, I almost said Todd Packer. Thank you, Jesse. Uh, he had just emerged alone from the woods

at the Los Pinos Indian agency after about two-ish months spent in the winter wilderness after departing from his party that had already been thoughtfully and carefully shown to a safe place where they could spend the coming winter months without dying because Alfred Packer had led these people to believe that he could take them 400 miles in 20 days, a caravan of 19 people. So, you know, uh, it took, they were lost after about two straight months. Yeah. Also math wasn't a big thing in the old west, unfortunately. No, no, it was not. That's for damn sure. But after settling in, uh, the, uh, Ure, the Indian, U Indian, uh, tribe chief had led them there. Uh, a bunch of them were immediately getting restless,

like Packer was one of them and they had no intention of staying or sitting still and wandered off into the woods against better judgment. Packer's party would include five others and they all packed up following the trail the previous party had left over a week ago in the snow. So there was just like not really much there to see. And for serious and for serious, how often is he having a seizure? Like having a grand mal seizure, uh, anywhere between one and three times every two days. So it was like throughout a 48 hour period has any between one and three. And how, what, how long does that put him out of commission for?

Well, the seizure itself lasts a couple of minutes or so. Right. But the toll it does on his body is, is great. He's like wiped out, right? It's debilitating. Yeah. Okay. Like he, it sucks that he has this. Like this is terrible that he has any of this. I just want to know how after one time everyone wasn't like, do you think they knew though? Oh, they definitely learned very quickly.

No, no, no. I mean, like the concept of a seizure. Certainly. Yes. They called it, they called it epilepsy back then. The doctor on the paper called, he had bouts of epilepsy. I'm not talking about the doctor. I'm talking about like Joe old man out in the west. The involuntary shakes. Yeah. I mean, the dude's drinking a lot too. Couldn't they just be like, they got drunk shakes. You know.

And he also is poor as hell. Remember he has no money to his name. They had, he had a McGrew pay his way. I bet a lot of people were shaking back then. It's cold too. So it's like, I got the shake. Like who knows, man? McGrew definitely knew. He very much cared for maybe even loved Packard to an extent because he would cradle him at night and hold him until he was safe

and tucked him in and cared for him. I just don't. I think this, I just think the situation was like, I just can't imagine how it wasn't like so fucking dire the whole time. It was dire the whole time as you will learn. That was kind of life though, right? You're right. You're right. You're right. Some guy might shoot you. Yeah. A snake might bite you.

Living through infant birth or even like young childhood as like a manual labor like killed kids constantly. That's why they were popping out like nine kids. Alfred is one of eight because they needed like labor on the farm. And he's just got to have backup. You did. I remember when we talked about, um, uh, Nanny Doss, that was her whole thing when she was born, two years old. She was moving rocks on the farm of the dirt farm they had bought.

It's like, yeah, these, these were just a workforce for people. The people who've ended up following Packard out of that nice encampment were just to remind everybody, people known as Israel Swan, George, California noon, your favorite. California noon is my favorite thing that exists in the world. I mean, it is nice out there at noon on Sunday, California noon. That's what I want. A man by the 70 degrees, Frank Reddy Miller, Shannon Wilson Bell,

and James Humphrey, all of, like I said, being led into the wilderness by Alfred Packer, who told him he'd knowed all the countryside. The members working at the Indian agency had quickly taken Packer in after he emerged alone from the woods, and while he was carrying nothing more than a knife and a coffee pot that had hot coals in it to start a future fire, looking way worse for wear with long, scraggly hair, a long, scraggly beard. And according to some, while absolutely looking in rough shape,

not exactly looking like he was starving very much for what the story he ended up telling them should be. He more notably, he wandered out alone without those who had left him in tow. His story that he told them was super simple, that at some point he'd gotten his feet wet and they froze over, and he incurred snow blindness. So he couldn't go out and do any hunting, so he stayed at the camp. And the other five members all went off to go hunt for food, but oddly never came back.

They just left him there. Eventually Packer decided for his own life he had to get up and start traveling lest he die in the woods by himself. Not but an eye to find him. Yeah, five people. Is that a quote? No, that was me. That was like a pirate like legend.

That was just like improv. That's not even in the script. I'm just like spit that shit out of my mouth. Yeah, but like, first of all, everybody kind of believed him right away, which is crazy to me, because if you look at this guy who's clearly healthy, but supposedly lived for weeks in the woods by himself, be like, yeah, all five people left. And man, they never came back.

They must have. If I was a fucking cowboy, I would be pulling my gun on literally everyone that I ever saw. So this was an NPC running up to you in Red Dead Redemption 2. Help. I got lost in the woods. My whole party never came back. Alex pops them because you can't trust nobody. You do them through the heart.

I'll be like, how come you're not skinny? Bam. Yeah, the woman who needs help. She's there. What does God need with a starship? Yeah, exactly. So you just would have pulled, you pull out your gun, you put a bullet in his head and it would have been done.

If this is how the Old West was, I'm shooting everyone. You can't even, I've never seen a living person in the Old West on a trail. Just wait, because this is just like, again, you're going to question how people survived in this area. Weddings, college graduations. Your stepmom placing third in a dog grooming competition. We've all got reasons to gift this summer, so give them something they'll love, drinks,

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$750 CCAP non-prime, finance through Chrysler Capital. Honor-proof credit. All prices are plus tax, title license fees, and a $299 dealer dock fee. Expires 531.23. Just wait, because this is just like, again, you're going to question how people survived in this area. I don't think they did, is the thing.

Yeah, well, you get fair. But there was no, well, this guy lived until he was 97. Regardless. Get the fuck out of here. Alfred Packer? He broke records with his age, yes. Get the fuck out of here. Yeah.

What kind of nutrients are there in the human body? That's what I was just going to ask. Are we missing out? Should we be eating people? Did we just back ourselves into Pizza Gate? Oh, God, no, not again. You know, we just back to the Pizza Gate. Did we just accidentally go pro-Pizza Gate?

What happened just now? I don't know, man, this podcast is dangerous. We are going to get canceled. But remember, not everybody left the camp that Ure of the Utes led them to. There was still a contingent of folk who were smart and stayed behind. And those people were Dr. Cooper, Preston Nutter,

and a prospector that in history is only known as Italian Tom. We don't know his real name. Italian Tom, my team, Preston Nutter. Are you sure that guy's good? Yes, Preston Nutter is one of the only ones. You sure he's good? Unfortunately, he's the only one of the ones

that you should be trusting in this story is Preston Nutter. I must stress, as we have gone over these stories of the past. I love him. I don't know what the hell happened to us. Earth, but names were better. 200 years ago, names were better. Everyone had a better name. All our names suck.

Yeah, why is it my name, Gusty Grimble? Like, what the fuck is going on? It's got to be your new name now. What up, Gusty? I'd be a fucking cargo pilot if my name was Gusty Grimble. I'd be like Baloo from Tailspin right now. That's my line. Baloo.

Yeah. Oh, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb. I like how we got Preston Nutter, but then the nickname for the guy is just Italian Tom. It's like the most boring plain name in the whole fucking world. That's great because you know that guy was from like Kentucky. And one time he ate spaghetti and they're like, look at Italian Tom over here.

He's probably like fucking Croatian or some shit. And they're like, yeah, that's Italian. Well, those three who stayed eventually got to leave as winter came to a close and they packed their bags on April 2nd and the small group departed heading for Los Pinos Indian Agency. The journey only took them a very short 11 days as opposed to the 60 to 70 days it took Packer to get there

through his own wanderings in the woods. But and they arrived safely at the agency. They should have just left this fucking guy in the fucking in a ditch. What's more interesting and I find hilarious is that when they arrived, it was only hours after Packer wandered out of the woods. They arrived to this place the same goddamn day from each other.

What the fuck happened? That's impossible. What the fuck happened? I don't know how that fucking happened. Has the hood done it already started? We're about to we're about to crack into the hood. I feel like I'm already starting to doubt the official story here. Was he hiding a bush outside of town

until these other fuckers come into town? And then he's like, oh, hey, oh my god. I think you'll be disappointed in how this who done it actually like it's framed. It's not because they didn't I will be on those three didn't do anything. They hung out at camp. They talked to Ure all the time. He was there helping them with food and getting them through winter. If you tell me this who done it is who took a shit in Patty's pub.

I'm going to lose my mind. I can't promise where this is leaving, but it's all a surprise for now. So they arrived within hours of Packer arriving after their very short journey. And when they saw Packer inside, they immediately asked him where the rest of the party was. They're like, they looked at me like, hey, where's everybody else? And Packer replied, quote, I don't know.

That was an instant reply to that was we know. We know they like we have an audio recording. He gave he gave the people around a story. And then these guys were like, is it I don't know? Or is it I don't know? No, well, I had it had an exclamation mark at the end of the quote. He just changed from knowing exactly what happened to them to knowing nothing about what happened to them.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Now they've done it started. But Preston Nutter, after hearing this, noticed something. Oh, no. The no, the knife that Packer was carrying, the one that he was walked out of the woods holding. It wasn't his knife.

It was a large skinning knife that belonged to Frank Reddy Miller. And when he immediately pressed it, Packer, as to how he came into having it, Packer said that Miller, quote, stuck it into a tree and forgot it. So we took it. If this dude ate Reggie Miller, I'm losing my mind. I just like that's like the like. I feel like you could come up with a better excuse than that

off the top of your head. Like you borrowed it. Not this guy. And then you let. Like he stuck it into a tree and then forgot it. And he took it. That makes no fucking sense. This guy said, I want to be in the cavalry.

He did. He did say I want to be in the cavalry. And he got to be in the cavalry. He is technically a veteran. So treat your veterans with respect. OK, I. There's a few other veterans I respect a little more than. He's a army and cavalry veteran.

So while Nutter didn't instantly press back, he noted that he became suspicious of Packer. Then and there, who remind you, as we go into this next part, joined the caravan with not a fucking penny to his name and had a habit of going around the party, the caravan, and asking how much money people had on them at the given time. Just so you remember that part is fresh in your memory. I would have been.

My gun would have been out already. I would have been already shaking this man down. You know, you don't do that now. Even if I wasn't on the trip, I would. If I was sitting in like the bar where this was all going down, I would be like, hold on. Where the fuck was your ass? Like it's so shady.

It's it's it all reeks of like insanely like looking at it from an objective point of reeks of guilt. Hilariously, there must have been something about Packer and his personality because he always had people who didn't understand why those group of people didn't like him. He was very, I guess, good at being pitiable, as maybe we'll see here in a moment. But there was always he was very good at getting people on his side.

And it was bizarre. And it was very, I mean, with McGrew, it was pity. And with these guys, it was pity because they believe his story where he survived on rabbits and berries for days as he wandered on alone in the woods with frozen feet and snow blindness. I think it's just because he like didn't shower. An amazing, an amazing feat of survival, by the way.

Can we just point that out? Like in the middle of winter, in the middle of the country, up north in Colorado, this dude is alone with frozen feet and snow blindness, hunting rabbits successfully and knowing which berries he needs to be eating to survive. Is there any evidence that that happened? Uh-uh, not at all. So like I could say, you know, I could, you know,

you know what I did between this episode and last episode? I went to fucking the middle of the country in honor. I just flew out there into Connecticut and I into the woods all the way across the whole country. Actually, it's not even the middle. No, no, yeah, you went cross-country completely. Yeah, I shot me a Sasquatch and then I ate all his meat

and then I threw all his bones in the fire and I burned them for nine hours so they got nice and brittle and then I smashed them up with a hammer and I buried them and I poured water all over them and then I flew home. I'm proud of you, man. The callback makes me proud.

The callback makes me very proud. Isn't that cool that I did that? The knowledge that I forced into your brain has stuck is what that means. But isn't it dope that I did that? Yeah, you definitely did that. I mean, who am I gonna, how am I gonna know otherwise? You definitely did it.

I don't like how much you're asking us to tell you it's cool. In 100 years when I'm still alive and there's a podcast going on about what I did this day, just make sure and let everybody know that I definitely for sure did that thing with Bigfoot and his bones and where I ate him. You're gonna get swatted by the Bigfoot police, dude. Yeah.

You can have the Bigfoot hunters on your doorstep knocking it down. I'm just saying you can say anything. That's all I'm saying. You can say anything. You can. And the fact, okay. But you don't have to say it's cool.

But isn't it? If it was a real Sasquatch, I'd kind of be sad. Isn't it good? Little cool, because it is a Sasquatch. Isn't it good that I did that to him? So, unsurprisingly, after... My point is he just showed up at the same time as these people in town, the same day,

and they were like, where were you? And he was like, I was gone for 70 days and I was blind in the snow and I used rabbits and this guy left me his knife in a tree. And the other guys are like, where the fuck were you? And he was like, oh. Yeah, yeah. He panics like, I don't know.

He has a lot of these moments coming up of just Freudian slips kind of escaping his mouth. It's great. It's great. Don't you worry, Jesse. Not maybe not the sexual kind of Freudian slip. Oh, I'm worried about the whole thing, but... Well, unsurprisingly, initially,

Packer planned on staying in this camp for a while, but after these people arrived, he immediately began having to plan to trip home because he suddenly really missed his family back in Pennsylvania. He heard his mom calling him home. Yeah, he could feel that he needed to plan to leave as soon as possible.

Mama Packer needed a hug. Papa Packer needed a hug. They were all waiting the Packer family back in Pennsylvania. And so, since he was poor as shit, he took the Winchester rifle that was slung over his shoulder. Sold it for $10. Whose rifle was that? We'll get to it.

What is... Okay. He sold it for $10 as best he could, and was going to use that money to plan his trip home. That's like $12 in today's dollars. The whole time to be planning took him about 14. We know about two-ish weeks that he spent in this small town getting the things he needed.

Just muttering under his breath about how much his mom needs to, like, see him. Yes, literally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. However, because the old crew was back, they didn't like him. So, you'll see where he ended up sleeping because of that. But, you know, wouldn't you know it? While during this 14-day period, Packer weirdly spent way more than the $10

he supposedly only had him to his name. In fact, we know he spent over $100 alone at the local saloon, which in today's dollars is over $2,000 in cash. Wait, at once? At one saloon. No, over two weeks, over 14 days. Okay, I was about to say, like, that's a night right there. $2,000 in 14 days at the saloon?

Yeah, all on booze, all of it on booze. I bet I could do that in a weekend, please. All right, well, you live in LA, okay? This is like the saloon in a town of five people. Like, you know, like, it's not... Oh, yeah, Mathis, I forgot to tell you. Remember when I ate that Bigfoot and burned his bones and crushed him up and buried him?

Oh, my God, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right next to that, when I was hanging out in the woods, just thinking on how cool that was when I did that. There was a five-man saloon just right there. No, I saw this tree. I saw this tree and on the tree, it was crazy. It was like a normal tree except the leaves. They were made of 1,800s of money.

What? Yeah, it was just out there in the woods. I just got it. I brought it back to town. I was really thirsty. Oh, you have it? Are you growing it in, like, your community yard out front? Yeah, that's why I have so much money.

It's, yeah, it's unfortunate because that money's out of circulation now, so no one takes it. That's a bummer. It's kind of just like leaves, really. Okay, but pretty tight that I found that tree, though, right? No, it's actually not. Was the Sasquatch the guardian of the tree? Is it like leprechaun golds?

Oh, my God. I don't know. I wasn't thinking about it like that. Kill a Sasquatch, get a tree, sprouting 1,800 US dollars. I didn't think about it that hard. The point is that it's totally true, is the thing. That's the thing. Well, yeah, obviously.

Why would you do it? And it's cool that I did it. Of course. I have no idea where this bit is going. The bit is just that this guy just can do whatever he wants. I just created a D&D enemy that you can use in a one-shot. There you go. The bit is just that Packers do whatever he wants.

He's coming into town. He's walking around. People are like, what are you doing? And he's like, I just have money now. That's why there's so little Sasquatches. They were hunted in the 1800s for the money trees. So the only ones left are the ones guarding the very few that were never found,

but that money is not needed anymore anyway. Yeah. This episode is the Green Stone part three. Oh, shit. Imagine if you just took over from this point on. And he's like, and now I was like, get up and leave. I would honestly go home. You learned how to packers not real.

He's not a real man. I would never appear on another episode. I would vanish if I was like, it's about a money tree guarded by a Sasquatch that I ate for real. Would you come to Green Stone part three? I'd be like, good night, everybody. I'm out. Would you come back for the inevitable HBO 20 year

forest reunion for a few chunk of changes and then the replacement third host is alongside us? He'd be gone, dude. I'd be like that guy who left the Beatles before they became the Beatles. You never hear from me again. Pretty soon after that. Don't worry about that guy.

You want to talk about Packers some more? Here's all I'm saying. Packers just go into the woods and making up stories. There's no way that dude showed up from the woods the same day as these guys. There's just no way. Well, let's find out if you followed them all the way home. That's what I think.

You just say he's like, oh, God, thank God. And you think sneakily followed them and then sprinted ahead of them to get there first? Yeah, I do. He's like, I got to get my story set straight. It's like more believable than him, what he said. For reasons that will become clear to you, I don't think he was capable of that kind of forethought.

He is not the most planned man. He's a very impulsive man. I know. Kind of weird. Alfred? Yeah, Alfred, by the way. Oh, right. Alfred.

Packer, thank you. His name. Beyond losing $100 alone to the local tavern in just to booze, he also joined the Small Towns Freeze Out poker tournament and lost in the first round losing $37, which is close to like $1,000. That's like four guns. So he spent almost $3,000 essentially on random fucking shit.

It's like three Sasquatches. But he only has $10, dude. He only has the three Sasquatches worth of trees. It's nuts. No, sometimes you have $10 of liquidity to spend and then your money's held up other places. If you can't be asking me for money, you're wheeling and dealing. That's true.

Packer is a very smart businessman. I forgot to put that part out. I didn't say it was smart. I just said it's business, baby. So they would actually eventually kind of confront him about this. But before then, Pat, we learned that Packer. Was it one hour after it happened? No, it was not.

It was days later, days later. Just hang on. Packer was sleeping in the saloon at this point because he was so scared of the other party and was allowed to by the owner, by the man by the name of Dolan. He gave him the permission to do so. And so we avoided his crew altogether. And often he spent long nights chatting with Dolan,

regaling him with the tale of how he survived out in the woods. Off over and over about how an amazing. Yeah, I killed this guy. And then I ate him. And then I took his money. And then I slept in his clothes. Hang on. We're going to get to what the story is exactly shortly.

However, the other crew did come and confront him after seeing him spend all this money being asking him basically what Jesse said, like, what the fucking, where did you get all this money? And his first response to them pressuring him was, I don't know what you're talking about. I only have $10. Dude is like when a little kid tries to hide

by like putting himself somewhere where he can't see you. You know? Yeah. And he thinks that you can't see him. But really it's like 40% of his body is sticking out under a fucking blanket. It really is perfect. When they and but when they confronted him with evidence

that he had also that day just bought a horse and saddle to leave town with. He suddenly remembered that he was given the money by the local Smithy by the name of Kincaid because he wanted to get him back home to Pennsylvania because he had a bleeding heart for poor old Packer and his horrifying story of survival. The man's name was Kincaid and this is.

Everyone had better names. Everyone. I know, I know, I know, I know. Yeah. And that fact had just slipped his mind. He just he just kind of forgot that he had been given money to spend and he only had $10 to his name was the only thing he could remember.

At one point Packer was actually buying something at the local store like the general store from just like a small town. And when he handed the clerk the money, the clerk immediately examined it to be fake because we learn here that Packer also spent some time in jail for for for for fighting money for for making counterfeiting money is counterfeiting.

He was counterfeiting US dollars in the past. This guy is so good. I love so. So the who done it is really just how many of the crimes that this guy absolutely seems like he did. Did he really do and when did he do them and which crimes are they? But they're definitely crimes.

And maybe what crime is it? Who did the crime? It's possible. You might be a little possibly might be a little on the right track. We'll see. So the rumors apparently spread to this town rather quickly and this clerk had heard of it.

And the clerk, a man by the name of Mears, did note that it was fake. And when he handed Packer the bill back, Packer pulled out a second billfold stuff with what he said was quote real green back real money. So this guy's literally tried he tried the fake money first. And then he was like, fuck, all right, well, I'll give you the plausible deniability wallets.

He'd be like, I got ten dollars. And he pulls out his wallets got ten dollars in it. But then he's got the like real green backs and his other wallet. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Again, of which money he was supposedly not supposed to have. In that moment, he spent ten dollars, by the way, and he had way more than ten dollars in his wallet.

And as far as that horrifying story that he kept telling people and was all too eager to talk about anyone that was willing to listen. Like I said, he spent many late nights in the saloon talking with Dolan where he would tell them all about the difficulty of living alone in the woods in the winter, only surviving off a rare rabbit that he barely ever saw.

Luckily, he had the the knowledge of the local berries though and what ones he could eat to survive. And Dolan said he immediately noted that for a man that spoke about living on the brink of starvation for so long and had very little food, he definitely didn't look starving. Meaning he was he carried. So, you know, he looked well fed.

He just had a bit of weight to him. He didn't look. Yeah, so okay, so back to the Bigfoot tree. I forgot to tell you when I was sitting there counting my millions in the freshly ashen mud under the Bigfoot tree. Congratulations. Thank you. I also found a whopper deluxe sitting there right next to it,

ready for the Eden. Isn't that crazy? Like fresh and hot. Yeah. Isn't that dope? Do you think that all whopper deluxe has come from the forest? Because it feels like it. I don't even know what whopper deluxe is a real thing.

Do you think that all? It doesn't matter because Sasquatch is there. There's Burger King in general. Do you think it all comes from somewhere they find it in the forest and? It kind of has that vibe. It does. It never looks like.

You think it's Sasquatch meat? Put together. What? You think it's Sasquatch meat? I hope not. I don't know. Although it would explain the weird taste. Yeah, I don't know.

Maybe there are more Sasquatches than we know, but the reason they're being kept hidden by the government is because they're a secret breeding warehouse where they kill them and give them to fast food chains to keep everybody happy and stupid and fat. There we go. I almost died, but it was super lucky that there was just like food there for me to eat.

So that's why that's really lucky. Yeah. Well, they are. I mean, obviously. And I believe you because even back in the 1800s, Packer, a man by the name of Alfred Packer was able to luckily find the rabbit at the right time, the right berries when they were needed.

And he had the skill, even though he had frozen feet again and snow blindness again, he still was able to shoot the rabbit and catch a rabbit. It's cool that he did it. It's cool that he did it. And he definitely did do it. And he definitely did do it. That's true.

Yeah. Unfortunately, the people he was telling the story to, by the way, were a little suspicious of it. And when the group came around again to push him about the money, it kind of seemed like the whole money thing was the last straw for this group, at least when it came to finally leveraging their suspicion about him and his crimes.

So after being pressed harder, a man by the name of General Adams in the small town sent off a messenger to investigate to see if Kincaid did give him this money and if the money truly did come from a bleeding heart to send him home. And so the messenger was sent off to get word. And it would be about a day before the messenger would return. And during that short stint of time,

they had eyes on Packer. He was very clearly being watched. He knew this. And at one point Packer was seen casually strolling over to the creek and then he just kind of hucked two things into the creek. And they quickly ran over to get the general. They ran over and to do a quick search. And they realized that both the billfolds were now missing completely.

And when they looked for the river, the water had already taken them away and they could never find them again. The dude walked over and was like, you know, whistling, just kind of hucking away the money. And then the counterfeit money that he was carrying around into the woods. I mean, into the fucking creek and just didn't even fucking. And guess what?

It didn't matter. It didn't do anything. They had no evidence shot this man. Nobody hit him. Nobody put a knife in him. No, they did nothing. They searched him, couldn't find the billfolds anymore, and were unable to find them in the running stream.

And when the messenger returned, confirming that Packer was indeed lying, he was sat and interrogated about what actually happened in the woods. That night or the time he was gone, not that night. And for a long moment, Packer sat silent before finally breaking the silence and saying, quote, it wouldn't be the first time that people had been obliged to eat each other when they were hungry.

Just sudden lucidity. At this moment, he broke into tears, actually, after saying that. Okay. Okay. So, Jesse, you look flabbergasted right now. Is there even to say? I know it's a podcast, but what is there even to say? So, how much did he like eating everybody? Well, we will get to that, actually.

That actually ended up kind of carrying afterward. Yeah, after he said that, he immediately began crying. Adam's saying that he was, quote, blubbering and hollering and could barely speak a coherent word. And that he, and so Adam had to reassure him, saying that, yes, he knew it did happen in necessary circumstances, even if it's something, you know, so horrific, and that this would be okay. And he would, he then, Packer then shouted,

he was scared of the boys, you know, the boys out there that were pressing him on things. And so, Adam's guaranteed him his safety and protection from the boys as he gave forth what would be his confession, or at least his side of things. I'm going to go ahead and have you read first. I'm just going to copy, paste this and put it in Twitter. This is the official note sent from General Adams

to a superior in Washington regarding the potential crimes. And then I'm going to read from the book a little bit, exactly how he confessed and how like the story went. So who wants to be the official person reading it? It's going to be in Twitter. Feel free to take it away, either one of you. It's rather boring. It's just like old timey read.

This is the official confession sworn by Packer and certified by Justice of the Peace James Downer. Don't worry, I got this. Yeah, and this is, again, this is Packer writing this down. This is Packer writing it down. Old man Swanson died first and was eaten by the other five persons about 10 days out of camp. For five days afterwards, Humphreys died and was also eaten.

He had about $133. I found the pocketbook and took the money. Now, time out. I just want to cut you off there. He spent so much more than that. It's already not right. Like he spent way more than that. Continue.

Some time afterwards, when I was carrying wood, the butcher was killed, as the other two told me accidentally. And he was also eaten. Bell shot California with old man Swanson's gun and I killed Bell. Shot him, I did. I covered up the remains and took a large piece along. Then traveled 14 days to the agency.

Bell wanted to kill me with his rifle. Struck a tree and broke his gun. And that is the sworn confession of Alfred Packer that was sent off to Washington. What an unfortunate series of events, though. That is one bad thing after the other. All of them were getting eaten by everybody else. It was just crazy.

It's still none of this is explained, though. I still have no explanation. I feel like you just told me facts and I've no idea. This is like the thing scenario, is what I'm kind of feeling from this. Like they all turned up to heat, started killing each other. Well, let's just say the evidence when, yeah, we're going to, don't worry.

We're going to get to the point where all of a sudden this doesn't sound like it's exactly how it went down. Because when they were in interrogating him, the way he would speak one was almost two. They say that they had spoken with people who had eaten of other humans before. And when they stumbled across them and they spoke to them, they were lost in the mind.

They were not right. But Packer seemed to be complete opposite of all of that. And it just didn't seem a hundred percent correct. The way he goes is they miss gravely, they gravely misjudged the time it would take and Packer and his five companions found themselves out of provisions almost before we knew it, according to his confession, just a few days, 10 days later.

And for the next few days, they quote, struggled along the best we could, barely subsisting on roots dug out of the frozen ground. 10 days after leaving Ure's encampment, 60 year old Israel Swan died from starvation. The others immediately set upon cutting his body, cutting away chunks of his flesh, which were roasted on a campfire,

and then greedily devoured. This is all the story he's telling them. Why would that happen? Good question. This is 10 days out, 10 days out. Yeah. Well, it doesn't make any sense. It sounds like a relic that just drove them all insane

out in the snow. Yeah, yeah. And then after they gorge themselves, they provisioned themselves with strips of his flesh, the men then set out again. After four or five more days of trudging blindly through the snowbound wilderness, James Humphrey collapsed and died.

He was butchered and eaten, quote, in the same way as the men were out of food again and hungry. Packer then confessed to having taken the $133 from him, Humphrey, at that point. Yeah, Jesse's just like, I don't know. The gesture is you make. It's so quick. They're just like, yeah, I'm around.

Food, all right, eat them. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't make any sense. Uh, now besides Packer, there were now just three remaining members of the party, Shannon Wilson Bell, George California Noon, and Frank Reddy Miller. A few days after the death of Humphrey, Packer wandered off from the others to gather wood

from a campfire, he says. He returned to find that in his absence, Bell and Noon had murdered Frank Miller, quote, who had been sick of rheumatism and delayed the party on the march. His body was already dissected and the best parts eaten before he got back from getting the wood. The best parts is like.

I'm glad you picked is no like weird like about opining on the flavor and texture of the human body that just doesn't sound involuntary to me in the same way. Question, question. What do you think the tastiest part of the human body is? The butt. You think the butt seems too fatty. I'm thinking like a thigh, a human leg.

Oh my God, you know that human leg. It's got to be the leg or like fucking the eyeball or some shit. You know what I mean? Like an arm. Like maybe like a human breast. You know what I mean? Like some delicious little.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think human cheeks are a delicacy? Ooh, maybe amongst who? Somebody. I don't know this guy.

I don't know. There's got to be a cannibal out there operating right now. I don't want to meet them. No, I don't either. Oh, no, no. I do not know. Uh, let's go back to Packer before we like a freaking cannibal knocks on my door.

That's what I, you know, that's what I've been told to. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Something to think about. Something to think about. And I screamed it going into the void before it sent me off. All the best parts were gone. All the best parts were gone.

Yeah. Yeah. He came back from collecting and that's how we remarked. He was like all the best parts of them are now gone. The tastiest morsels were already taken. The corpses of the two men of all the men who have died so far were just left there according to Packer. And Millers was quote left lying on the spot

where their meat was taken off. So the body, according to him, is still kind of just lying out there. And now their strength was temporarily restored. And the three of them pushed ahead. And then several days after that Packer said, Bell shot California with Swan's gun. Packer and Bell then both together ate the flesh. Only a few days.

And he's like, all right, next, bam, dead, kill him. All right, you want to feed off of him? You got to figure once you once you eat one person, it's like, you know, why? All bets are off. Yeah. It's like Game of Thrones. You actually make a good point in Packer as you covered after that last one.

Yeah. Yeah. Because after that last one, there were only two left and they both made quote a solemn compact not to kill each other for food. I would eat the other dude. I don't trust nobody at that point. That first night I killed him.

I shot him. Yeah. Right. We made a pact and then I immediately killed him because they forged. They forged ahead still with just the two of them now until they came across a grove of timber near the banks of a lake. Their pledge was speedily broken. They were warming themselves around a campfire when according to Packer quote,

Bell arose and taking his rifle aimed to blow with the butt end at me. The blow missed in the stock striking a tree broke off grabbing his own rifle. Packer shot and killed Bell in self-defense quote. There was nothing I could do. We insisted and only a few seconds he was dead and couldn't under a sound and he lived and then according to his confession, it's here where by his own campsite that he stayed up for several days, he lived off of Bell's flesh and then taking some of the flesh along with him.

He continued on his way where eventually two weeks later he would he came across the agency. I don't like the way you said flesh. Well, that's, you know, he's he really likes it and he calls it flesh in everything he says and all of his fricking confessions flesh is like the word. I don't like he uses flesh is one of the worst words in English. So you're saying you don't believe the story. Is that what you're trying to tell me right now? It's not that it's just I fucking hate the sound texture feel of the word flesh in all ways.

Mathis, can I ask you a question? Do you believe the story? Because it feels like you're about to say it was all a lie. I do not believe the story because it may have all been a lie. You know what? I have something to admit about the Sasquatch. Wait, don't say it yet because this was enough for General Adams. He believes it.

Oh, good. All right. He believed that's like word for word. And that's when he had him write the affidavit. That's when he had him write the. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's when he had him write down the confession and sent it off as to what to do with him.

Preston Nutter, however, didn't believe a goddamn ounce of this man's. He claimed it was impossible that Bell could kill someone or participate in the cannibalism. In Nutter's words, quote, he pronounced his affidavit a tissue of lies. You was that another one of your freestyles or is that? No, that's the quote. Quote Nuster Nutter's. A tissue of lies. He pronounced his affidavit a tissue of lies.

Nutter's like Emily Dickinson. He's an undiscovered writer talent. But but because we live in the stupid times right now in the 1800s, there was really no way to prove if he was lying right away or not other than the circumstantial evidence that he was carrying on his person like the knife and the money. But they were going to try and find a way they could prove it. So they thought of something up. They could have Packer lead them back to where the incident occurred because Bell's body

should still be there with the way he said he left the body behind with the broken gun that hit the tree and all of the evidence of the crime scene laid out before them. And if he was telling the truth, Adams promised he would pay Packer's whole trip back home to Pennsylvania on his own personal dime. So what do you think Packer did? He actually did decide to lead them. Packer led them into the woods for four days before oddly, suddenly stopping and claiming, quote, he had no knowledge of the country and he was entirely lost.

You know, the guy who said he knowed all the country. Now he doesn't know any of the country after four days of leading them into the woods and was entirely lost. And no matter how much they insisted or pressed on, he like a stubborn toddler, refused to move. He would not move. I would be that guy anywhere. You would be which which guy would you be that guy that's like you've killed us.

Damn you. You know, like in the fucking in the fucking group. Kill this man. If anybody should die, it should be him. He got us into this mess. That would fucking be me. That would be my fucking shit. It's it's like there is supposedly on this four day journey.

There was no violence. Save one of the people who joined them. And he had a posse of about eight people he was leading into the woods. And one of them who at one point apparently asked him where he got that skinning knife. That's when Packer supposedly pulled the skinning knife in charge that this man before the group of people quickly stopped him, took the knife away from him, took it away and then forced him to continue leading him. So I don't know if that's true because that only comes from one of the posse that was there.

It could just be embellishment after the fact. But you know, it's crazy how I mean, I don't know if I believe that. I don't think that would have worked in Packer's favor. It doesn't seem to fit as his MO. He just instead like a toddler is like, no, I'm not moving. It sounds to me just like a bunch of assholes just went into the woods. Well, you'd think that until you realize maybe he's a little stupider than he actually is because they decided, fuck it, we're going to check the area around here.

And they were right fucking next to his campsite. He led them all but right to it and decided then and there as he got close. He got like cold feet and it was like, I'm lost. I don't know where we are. Let's turn back. I don't want to go. He didn't even lead them away from the camp or like in any opposite direction. He for four days led them in the right direction.

He just wussed out. He just like decided he was going to die if he if he went. Yeah, it's almost like they didn't want him to see the fucking camp at all. And how weird when they walked into the camp, they found a really well tended to camp fire, a sleeping space and a shelter for one person in clear evidence that someone had been staying here for a long time as the place where they were sleeping had then worn out in the dirt with like mounds of dirt pushed back and evidence of him moving around and hand prints all over the fucking snow.

They found all kinds of things except the body that was supposed to be there and any damaged tree. There was nothing there. And upon searching, they found a pill box, which was enough for Nutter to be like he lied. He's guilty. He's this is this is like arrest him, hang him. He demanded that Packer be hung hanged. And Adam still didn't want to do it. Adams was still not convinced that Packer was guilty of any particular crime,

but he understood the need to potentially hold this possible suspect. And when brought back to town, he was put in prison. This is where things get a little weird. Oh, this is this is where things get weird. Wait, what the fuck? OK, so the story is fascinating at this particular point because one, obviously, they put together a search party. Where were these bodies and how could they be found?

During that time, Packer was held in prison and eventually they got word back from Washington. And it was they said it was enough to keep him in prison for now. However, we don't know who, but some point, Packer was let out of prison officially. No, he had made friends with a couple of the guards. He was like released. Assumption is they let him out quietly because he was in prison. Because they believed him to be innocent and he didn't do anything wrong. And it was unfair.

So they quietly let him out. The problem is nobody ever admitted to it. So we don't know whoever did it. We do know that about after 17 days, Packer vanished from the prison and he disappeared. The body, the party found the bodies neatly lined up next to each other with huge pieces missing off of them with a blanket laid over them in heads missing from a few of them as well. It was clear that they had been at least not killed in the way his story had went. There was a in the newspaper when they came back a drawing of the crime scene,

but I couldn't fucking my Google food failed me. I couldn't find this article where there was a drawing of what the crime scene looked like. And the way it's explained is that there were four bodies lined up with the sheet over them. And as the sheet was pulled back, you could see the hunks of meat carved away. But the fifth body laid off to the side with its head taken off. And that was Bell. And it did seem like that he had gotten into a fight with Bell maybe. It's hard to know because we just have the description that they gave us of the crime scene.

And at best a drawing of what they said the crime scene looked at. And even the crime scene being described in the newspaper, Nutter said that that was nowhere near as gruesome and horrific as the crime scene actually was when it was there. I don't know if this is officially it, but I think I may have found that image. I'd love to see it. I dropped it in the chat. It says it's it's from 1874.

So this is what supposedly the bodies looked like at the crime scene, according to a crime scene drawing and description that they were given of it. Is it was gruesome? It was clear. Oh, it's really high rates, too. Wow. Yeah, that thing is like super high res. Wait, so so the story of one being killed at a time is bullshit.

Bullshit. Yes. It seems like they killed them all. They lived all their bodies over time. Yeah. So again, we don't truly know. But the evidence points to that they were all killed very closely to one another. And then he lived off of those bodies and kept their bodies in the snow to keep the bodies fresh.

So he purposefully has always been leading people out there to just his little plan this one time. This is the only time he did it. This is the only time he did it. And it was just that this party of people he departed with that we know of. He never there was never any other cannibalism. Maybe he didn't know he was going to eat him till, you know, he got a little cold. You know, again, he's he makes such stupid decisions that this just might have been him panicking and then realizing he had to kill all the other ones and then ended up just

murdering people and eating and then just living off their flesh because he couldn't survive in the wilderness alone because he couldn't. He wasn't a man of the wilderness. He wasn't a wilderness guide. He lied about all that. If you remember, like, I don't know. But like, yeah, you could see underneath each one of these drawings, too. You could see that's the name of the victim underneath them.

So the bottom left is Israel Swan. The bottom right is Frank Miller in the middle. You have Bell. Top left is California. And you can see California's head was not decayed yet. And then. But you can see like the flesh is flayed off the ribs. Like you could see the heads are mostly left alone.

They look at off for sure. Yeah. It looked like broken down a little bit. But so he. So this happened. I guess maybe I'm confused. Were you saying that he then went out again with another group of people and they. Or am I totally confused on this?

Yeah. So so they then there was the so he led the the one group. Yeah, then he emerged alone. Right. These being those bodies. And then they didn't believe him. So he led a party of eight out to to prove his innocence. Right.

Stopped short of his camp was like, I don't know where I am. They searched anyway, found his camp, but found none of the bodies that were supposed to be there. Put him back in prison, then had a search group to find the bodies that were supposed to be there. And this picture is where they found them. And they were if his story was correct, the body should have been days travel apart because there was a death, then days of travel, then a death, then days of travel instead. And they were all together. Right.

Instead, they were all together and clearly all of them being fed off of. So and then by the time they came back, Packer was missing. He was gone. And then Packer vanishes for nine fucking years. What? He disappears for years. They have a bounty form for $500 bounty and they were looking for him. But again, this is an age where information does not travel fast.

And by the time it gets wherever it's going, who knows like what the story is molded into kind of like that game of telephone in a way. And the public, even the newspapers that were voraciously taking up the man eater kind of through line through the story lost interest in him fast. There wasn't. We didn't see hide nor hair of this man until about 10 years later. When a man by the name of Schwartz shows up and he's robbing people with a six shooter and they follow him back to where he's staying.

And when he walks out of his house to approach the two men who are approaching, he reaches down for his six shooter that he forgot in the house. And they quickly pointed his guns at him, took him in only to find out this man is not Schwartz. It's Alfred Packer with a fake name. And he's been living under a fake name for years as a bandit. As just he just did odd jobs. The first giveaway because he gave his fake name is the man was missing his ring finger and his middle finger from the mining accident all those years ago.

And after he figured it out, they asked him about the cannibalism thing and he accidentally let slip. He said, I am guilty of all the crimes that you put upon me. Whoops. And then he said, that's not what I meant. I meant that I am not guilty. I have already given my confession and my confession is the truth. So it's like a Freudian slip.

That's where the Freudian slip comes from where he just is like, no, yeah, I'm guilty. I mean, I'm not guilty. I'm not guilty. I already did my confession and they were they didn't believe him, obviously. And the man was thrown in prison. Now the public cares. And suddenly you realize true crime has been popular for fucking ever a lost cannibal. Basically, they lost they unearth a lost cannibal.

And the story of the man eater began taking over the newspapers first locally and then across the country of his story that keeps getting embellished upon and embellished upon and embellished upon. And the stories of what he actually did soon became became so lost to media that it wasn't nobody really the picture of this guy was like a heinous monster. And he was he did something horrible, but they just went like again, it went crazy. He was a sensation from the entire time he was put in prison until the end of it. And that was 17 years.

He was in prison for 17 years. He had a loyal base of fans that would consistently arrive and like protest and shout for his freedom. He had lawyers working for him pro bono. And they were they years in a failed trial after trial after trial. They never gave up. And he always stuck to his goddamn story. He thought that being put in prison, nobody would care about him anymore. And he died there.

The opposite happened. And he became a national like like Charles Manson kind of guy in a way. Yeah. And it took over forever. And at the end of those 17 years, they got him his freedom. And when he got his freedom, he lived as a free man until he was 97 years old, never admitting to his crimes. But after his death, the state got a like in the early, I think it's the late 80s, early 90s,

an archaeology team wanted to go find the bodies to see if they could find evidence of wrongdoing. They went to go like look for that crime scene from the picture where they where they were able to try and figure out via the like official papers and interviews where the crime scene was located. They found bodies. But the evidence on it showed that it was they the bones had clear marks in them, like like a knife had dug into the bones. And it was clear that they were have they had been eaten. But there was a people didn't necessarily believe him because the man who was in charge of this

was also already known for embellishing evidence of other things he had tried to prove in the past. And so is his conclusion that he may have actually done this for survival and not at a murder is kind of muddied because he is not a trustworthy source. And that was the last time the story was ever looked into. That is so frustrating. And that's the end of the story of Alfred Packer, who was let out of prison by a couple of guards. People think lived a long life for a little bit, then got in prison, lived a long life in prison, and then was a free man and then broke records with how long he lived.

Vegetarian. And he did call the and at one point he did call the human meat that he ate, the sweetest meat that he had ever tasted. What in the fuck is wrong with this guy, dude? In a way it was, you know, he got a whole fucking he got like one last ride off it. And that's it. That's the story, boys. That's the Alfred Packer tale.

Fucking hell. I don't. So he just went on to live a life and not eat anyone. Vegetarianly. Many people in the newspapers, look, the manager tale, they they did tie a lot of cannibalism occurrences to him, but there were no there's no evidence because any of it is true. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

If there was any evidence, it's in his belly and out the other side. But the fact that he called it, you know, they don't shit. Yeah. Like when we talk about we'll eventually talk about Albert Fish. I don't know if you guys know who Albert Fish is, but that's like a cannibal criminal from the late 1890s, but he was like a dude who like was living the city very proper. But God, a taste for human flesh, according to him, and couldn't let the addiction taste. Yeah.

So like it has similar vibes to that in a weird way. Who knows? Do I think he may be killed somebody else? I think he may have. I truly think he may have in that time passes, motherfucker. Right. People were. Yeah.

People like he was a well known entity at Schwartz. People liked him for the most part, but he was a very kind of solo individual. Even though they found him robbing a dude. All right. OK. Go on, Schwartz. That's what I'm saying, man. Like he I think it's very possible that maybe he wanted another taste and murdered somebody.

I mean, look how long Boone Helm lasted. How many people he killed and yet nobody cared for the longest time. All they ever end up learning is how stupid most people are. You don't need to be so smart to be successful. Yeah. Like it's just there's like just a bunch of dumb people out there that are doing just fine. On that. Thank you guys.

Please support us at patreon.com slash shlumeonite pod. And we we need you to keep going. Bless. How are you feeling about that story, Jesse? Was that was the least thing was that fulfilling story I've ever heard of a man eating people. Why? Because he didn't get his doom. No, I just like and then he went on to go like, you know, open a bakery or whatever.

Who knows? Like he broke records with his life. That's crazy. This is the point is how many people get away with this? How not this in particular, but how many people get away with heinous crimes? He's literally hand-electering his way through reality. He literally did. I hate this.

And he had he had officials who were sympathetic and believed him even in the face of the evidence in front of them, which is nuts to me. You think he was kind of like I mean, you've seen a picture of Alfred Packer. He's not a he's not a handsome man, I would say. You know that, you know that like that level of stupid kind of like a goofy guy where you just kind of love him like a lovable. Yeah, that's him. Do you think that's what he was to everyone?

They're like, I think so. What a goofball. Well, they never had to see him eat all the people that he traveled with into the woods. I guess. Yeah. And I think people truly felt pity for him for his his seizures for his his epileptic seizures. Like because that is something that he did lean into and in victimization, but it also allowed him to get away being this monstrous man who probably probably killed them

all and probably killed them all within the same day. But there's no like you're telling me there's no hard facts at all in any of this. We have the bodies and we know there are any hard facts before like 1916. I guess you're right. It's all really conjecture. I was saying we have we have got we have the government documents with his with all the things that are listed what people believe the interviews with these people, which is where a lot of people believe is not fact, though.

That's the problem. I agree. I know. Welcome to the 1800s, my dude. I don't know what else to do. Welcome to fucking right now, bro. But like all the other people we've covered, it's like, yeah. And then, you know, then she killed that person and ate their butt.

And then, oh, yeah. No, that guy, he went out in the woods and like sacrificed them all to Satan. And now we get this story. It's like he may have done that, but may have done it a different way. But also he may have just like been an old codger who they locked up for no reason. And then he lived to be 97. Also, he was kind of a goofball that none of the facts add up. Imagine if Boon Helm had taken his brother's gift because he was a free man.

His brother got him out of jail. Remember, he came with all of his money and got him out. Imagine if Boon Helm did what this guy did and then just lived a normal life. We'd have another story like that. This guy thing is, it's like, you're telling me this man lived a normal life. If I had tasted the sweet meat of man, I couldn't go back. I'd be like, I spent my entire life just like, I gotta get another bite. What happened to you, Jesse?

Where is the sweet meat of man coming from from you? Just eat some fucking pork, Bradley, bro. Yeah, like I thought you weren't even thinking about that before. I've never thought about eating a person before. But now? Let's go get some Hamon, baby. Now that I know that I can live to be 97, sign me up. You don't want that Hamon.

You want that Manmon. Well, he was old when he got a prison. He was old. I just want to leave the way that the newspaper posted it in the Grand Junction Evening Sun when he was freed was Alfred Packer has been given a conditional parole. The condition probably being that he would not be any more of the sovereign people of Colorado. The sovereign people of Colorado. Yeah.

And then the last bit, quote, now that he didn't say nothing about Utah. Now, well, the last line is, quote, now that he's approaching his end and has lost most of his teeth, it is probably safe to let him out. Yeah, but you think he could like gum a person? Yeah, he could definitely. He could still kill someone and gum and suck on the juices. There's no way he didn't shoot these people. Again, this guy had lawyers fighting for him for 17 years,

probably from all that money that he got. Probably from all that delicious man meat he gave them. He probably, you know what? I bet you he just like did appearances and shit, right? Just made money. I cut some for you. And they're like, thank you, Mr. Packer. Yeah, and then they all like went to a barbecue and they like grilled it up.

Thank you, Packer. And they're like, oh, that's man's shank. In his late age, General Adams did visit him. And when he visited old Packer, General Adams, the guy who believed him, he said, don't you recognize me? And Packer said, I'm sorry, sir, I don't. And he's like, it's me, General Adams from 15 or so years ago. And they had a wonderful conversation.

Delightful. Wouldn't that have been amazing if it was instead a cooler version of that story? It was like, like he pulled a gun and don't recognize me. You killed my brother, you son of a bitch. Like they're really awesome. Yeah, awesome. I'm sorry, I don't. But he's like, yeah, it's like one of those like for you,

it was the worst day of your life. But for me, it was Tuesday. Is that it's that kind of thing. Yeah, that would have been cool. But no, no, they just had a good combo. The thing is, if you eat people, you will live almost as long as anyone ever has. I think that's the lesson here. Yeah, I think so.

It's not a good lesson. Listen, you can only live once. Taste that succulent forbidding me. You only live once. Taste the succulent. What now? Patreon.com slash Illuminati pod. And we'll see you guys next time.

Goodbye. Bye. What happened to this show? We're evolving to our true final form, everybody. Don't worry. Anyway, me and my wife were sitting outside indulging on our porch one night, enjoying ourselves. I needed to go to the bathroom. So I stepped back inside.

And after a few moments, I hear my wife go, holy shit, get out here. So I quickly dash back outside. She's looking up at the sky in the fall. I look up too. And there's a perfect line of dozen lights traveling across the sky. Okay, what's the number one reason you should try Instacart? Shopping over 1.5 million unique products from over 1,000 retailers. And get everything delivered right to your door in as fast as one hour.

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