Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 207 - UAP Whistleblower Grusch! The Government HAS UAPs??

Episode Date: June 11, 2023

It's the best day ever for Mike Patreon - http://www.patreon.com/chilluminatipod MERCH - http://www.theyetee.com/collections/chilluminati Special thanks to our sponsors this episode - EVERYONE AT HTTP://PATREON.COM/CHILLUMINATIPOD PROMO CODE FOR ALL - CHILL ButcherBox - http://www.butcherbox.com/chill Nuts - http://www.nuts.com/chill Talkspace - http://www.talkspace.com/chill Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - http://www.youtube.com/user/superbeardbros Editor - DeanCutty http://www.twitter.com/deancutty Art Commissioned by - http://www.mollyheadycarroll.com Theme - Matt Proft End song - POWER FAILURE - https://soundcloud.com/powerfailure Video - http://www.twitter.com/digitalmuppet

Hello everybody and welcome back to the Chaluminati podcast episode 207. As always, I am one of your host Mike Martin joined by the Hail and Pace of LA, Guessy and Alex. Welcome boys, welcome to the show. Hail and Pace? Once again, totally confused. Pace like the salsa? Hail and Pace were an English comedy double act that performed in clubs and on radio and

television in the UK in the 80s and 90s. I, I have no frame of reference for them. Unfortunately, I thought Alex Alex is the pace, obviously, because I have New York city. Garrett, tail and Norman pace are there full name. I am beside myself. I have no idea. He's paid for Conte and I'm the salsa made in New York, which I guess is the other guy checks out That works. You're down for that. Yeah, I mean, I don't know anything about them

So like, you know, I also don't care. Paces of legit Ligit salsa the fact that I know so little about that means that I care even less This is from the web archive way back machine here boys So it was how you're getting a little info on the way back You couldn't find a normal article yet. You're archive way back machine here, boy. So it was how you're getting a little info on that way back. You couldn't find a normal article yet. You're the way back. Well, this is where it was once for sale, but no longer the Hailey and Pays series one and two three disc set that was only in Australia for some weird reason. It's out of stock, dude. They saw it. It's out of stock. Look at the Mr. Bean holiday on the left. It's a

link to an old DVD listing. Yeah. Yes, that's what we got. That's for one thing he sent us to show us who these people are. Cover art coming soon. Let's see, can I get you a better picture? You can get anything better. I have a URL for you guys to follow.

If you check this one out, check out the chat. Oh, patreon.com slash chulumani podod. That's right. I think they're there. Oh man. I bet you I don't know that Hale and Pace are there, but I'll tell you what is there. They're the sweetest little boys you've ever known who just want to get on with their lives making great episodes for you guys about true crime and real English stones and aliens about true crime and real English stones and aliens like today, probably if I know Mathis. And. Are you trying to say you know me?

You think you're my friend or something? Get out of here. Whoa. I feel like I'm your friend. I'd like to believe I'm your friend, Mathis. Don't worry. He's a little on edge because of what we're about to talk about today. It's been a, it's been a very tense three days.

Yeah. But if you, if you head over to patreon.com slash tomorrow pod, you'll get that, you'll get minisodes, you'll get great art from Mel. We got pre-sale on merch. We got everything over there. We got rotten popcorn, the archives. We can call Mel, she's officially a hot topic designer. Hot topic, our own congrats.

Our very own hot topic, Mel. Nope, don't do that. No, okay Guys head on over to patreon.com slash chulanipad where you can watch mathis Game kinship with fox molder in real time. It's true. You were on rotten popcorn. I am not I am rather I am very surprised how like Dead correct you were about what I would feel about molder. It was shocking that you hadn't heard of like you like I was surprised that you hadn't heard of it because of how similar your plights truly were.

Well, he said he heard of it in the background when his parents would watch it and he ignored it, which is even more shocking to me, but it checks out with this whole I only play video games. I don't watch TV. It makes sense. It's very, very true. It was fun to like, say what I, like, figure out what he was doing or say something that I would do and then hear him say it to you. And I'm like, oh, this is like, oh, this is, I wish this was me. It really happened exactly how you want to

folks go over there, check it out. Rodden popcorn, patreon.com, so that's Chumon, and now let's yell about disclosure. Hey, I'm going to give you an IM. I'm not sure I'm not sure I'm not that's like, that's how like the UK do it. The terms, good taste and politically correct are obviously totally unknown to the writers. This is from 1986 to 1998. It was a very different time back then. All right. I'm in. Hey, Ellen pace.

If you're out there, you're listening to the Chubani pod. Come on down. We got you. Unless you agreed with January 6th, then maybe don't. Oh, yeah. You know what? If you're pro January 6th, need not apply. Need not apply. Please.

We're learning a lot of things today. I just take, I just take the, I just, I just go with the punches. You know what I mean? You guys don't, you guys can't see it, but from here, live from the waist down, I'm totally naked right now. It's been, yeah, he's standing about six feet away from the camera. I can see him full body and he's just totally nude halfway down. Just sport and dog.

He's been that kind of weak. It's glorious. And we're only halfway through the week to spoil it. We record on Wednesdays. I'm stressed out. I'm tired. My blood pressure is absolutely shot up by like, no one's saying to go to show off. He looks like DC Comics, the creeper right now.

And he looks to say today's episode is being hijacked by yet another UAP thing happening. And it's one of these things. This one is this one's frustrating. This one's frustrating because to me, this is either it or it ends it for me. Like I. That's what he said last time though to be fair. But when I got stuff out of it. And he will continue to say, because that's how they get you and that's the, that's

where we're at. No, no, because the NASA hearing and actually the government hearing actually were good. But this is like so, not subtle. It's like so, the claims are something you can't really go back on. This is not something can be like hand wave away with the claims that are being made. So well, I mean, if this guy just turns out to be bullshit, what, like if everybody's like actually, I don't know where this guy got this from, that means everybody I've fought been following in the UAP world.

Avilo, I wouldn't say Greer so much. Alizondo, like those people, that means they're fully just full of shit or just don't do their due diligence. That's where Jesse's at all the time. Yeah, he's already there. This is the event that puts me there. This is the event that gets me. Mathis, you sound exactly like every time, like a really far ultra white right wing guy says something like, what do

they want next? Free healthcare for everyone? And people like, my God, I think he gets it. I think he gets it. And I think you're in the same place. So I'm like, maybe the worst person you know just made the best point. But this is correct me if I'm wrong, boys. Before we get into the details, does this feel even a little different to you? It does. Because of the bombastic claims, and who this guy is before we get to know who he is in a moment.

Centically, like with you, for the most part. Centically, it feels like they definitely at the very least, even if you believe this is nothing more than just the latest dog and pony show about aliens. Like, it's clear that they've taken a big swing with this one to get it on some some sources. Like there's there's a lot of websites and news publications and stuff that don't normally cover this with the level of seriousness that this one is getting regardless of how true or not true it is. I have definitely noticed that

they it seems to be taken more seriously by the media in general for some reason. And there's, I will say that. We'll get to who's covering it, how they're covering it, what they're even saying in the articles, and what is supposed to be coming down the line, we're apparently getting a Washington Post article in the next couple of days as well. We'll see. The biggest problem that I have with all of this is it reminds me of, I mean, first off, it's UFO stuff. So obviously, I'm going to be like, all right, the government propaganda

worked on you. They worked, it worked. But the thing that's interesting is this, this time, the way the news is picking up, it reminds me of, and I don't know how many of you remember this listening or if you remember this, but in 2022, there was a good two or three month period where everyone on the news was talking about Havana Syndrome. Yes. A thing that has existed in the like cultural ethos of us being in Cuba for- It hasn't been forgotten in certain circles, good sir.

For years and years and years, people talked about like Russia's bombarding and earlier this year since the Obama administration practically. Yeah, it happened frequently where the people were like, whoa, what's going on? And then the news finally picked it up and started running stories and they were talking about it. Like it was a real major thing. And then in this March, a bunch of different official reports came out that were like, yeah, no, Russia's not attacking us.

It's, yes, just people getting like sick or whatever. It's nothing. Don't worry about it. And so, yeah, well, then that's infuriating because that's not, no, that's not true, clear. Well, here's the thing. Doesn't matter what you think. I know, I know.

Doesn't matter what I think, just like with this, even if it is real, and even if Russia has been mombarring us with microwaves and, and Havana for 40 years, the government still is like, no, it's not happening. We did it. We're not going to agree. Yeah. Exactly. And it's the exact same vibe I have here. That's why whistleblowers are super necessary, you know. So like, so for the past year, we'll get into this, like in detail now. So for the past year or so, the people like Avi Loeb and all that have been

saying, just be patient. We're going to have in 2023 whistleblowers are coming forward. Be patient, be patient, be patient. Time just kept going. Nothing fucking happened. And they kept just saying the same thing over and over again. And it just, it just became frustrating because it just nothing was coming of it. We watched you unravel in real time. Multiple times. And I'm doing it for the most extreme time now. Like it's about it for the most extreme time now. Like it's about to be the end all for me. We'll see about that.

So this guy comes forward, a man by the name of, I always, I want to say Gorsuch, it's not. It's a Gorsuch. It's Gorsh. Gorsh. Gorsh. Gorsh. Gorsh.

Let's see, Dave, yeah, David Trump's fine. Both Trump's fine. Gorsh, maybe, you know, who knows? This man is a decorated Air Force veteran who served beyond just in the Air Force from 2019 to 2021. He was the liaison between the department he was working at and the AARO. So he's been, and that's been verified. He was working with the UAP side of things for a while.

Fun note, because he's a picture from holding up all of his medals. My buddy Jeremy, who was, like I said earlier, he's been in Marines, he looked at it because he was hearing of this too. And he's like, fun fact, he has no combat award. So it's not PTSD from combat. And I was like, okay, thanks, good to know. Interesting. But it is an interesting point, I guess he didn't get to see combat or anything.

So basically what he's saying is he came forward. Last year in the early 2022, he testified to Congress for over 11 hours. He was then cleared via some sort of filing that April 6th of that next year, 2023, he would be clear to talk about what he spoke about in Congress. However, and he just filed a complaint, you can go look at the complaint that next year, 2023, he would be clear to talk about what he spoke about in Congress. However, and he just filed a complaint, you can go look at the complaint. When he started coming forward with stuff, he started getting targeted for like, he says

like harassment or just trying to stop him from doing it. So he filed a complaint with Congress, I believe, or the DOD because he's, he's being wrongfully targeted because he should be protected now by the passage of the AARO thing where all whistleblowers can now come forward, no matter the NDAs or whatever they signed, and not fear, not have any retaliation from the government. You should be completely protected. That was part of the budget, I think it was like tagged bottom. I kind of thought that was already the vibe, but you know, whatever.

Well, it was the vibe since that. It was the vibe for what? Like six months now, and that's already the vibe, but you know, whatever. Well, it was, it was the vibe since that it was the vibe for what, like six months now and that's been the vibe. I mean, it seems like that should have been the vibe about always a blowing for all time, but you know, yeah, well, then you got, yeah, well, we have so many whistleblowers like, oh, fucking reality reality. Was there a name we got put in jail for? Reality winner? Yeah, like shit like that.

Yeah, they should be protected. Absolutely, but we know that's not the case, especially with the US government thinks it's secret to more important to keep to themselves regardless. So we filed it because what it came forward saying in an interview that was done early April on camera and then the debrief, which is the first place to break the news, did two months of fact checking and there are two separate articles about their fact checking alone before they publish this. And this Sunday, the full seven hour interview on cut is also being released. And basically, he says, for the past decades, the US and not just the US, the UK, France,

like all major nations have been scooping up Rex. They have destroyed or parts of Rex as well as fully intact Rex that are, and he specifically says non-human intelligence. When said, when asked about if it was extraterrestrial, he didn't go so far as to say his extraterrestrial, he didn't know. He just knew that it was non-human intelligence. That's so loaded though, non-human intelligence. Well, because that could mean from under our oceans, that could mean from another dimension.

Yeah. It just means it's something as more intelligent or as intelligent as we are. Sure, sure, but he's not saying like it's the Chinese or whatever. He's non-human intelligence is loaded. Yeah, it's definitely loaded. That's what I'm saying. Like, it's a big call out. Not only that, he claimed that they also,

the US is in possession of cadavers of whatever they are, because some of the crash wrecks had corpses with them, which is been a rumor. I mean, we talked about in the Roswell multi-parter about all the shit. Again, it's bombastic things. What's interesting is he's not just being left out to dry one and two, he's not like the CIA guys who go on camera,

but like I'm XCIA, there's no way they can fucking verify what he did. He could have been a fucking janitor in the CIA. They all have security, you know, clearances. And he's like, trust me, bro, this is what we know. But this guy can be like tracked, fact checked to what he did, where he worked. And people that are in the government working

where he's working, that are still working now. And people who have also since left have all come forward and said, this guy is like an honorable dude. He's a good worker. You can be like, that's all just, he's being supported, followed by people like Avilob and Elizondo and all these other people that are like, there are more coming too. We told you be patient.

This is only the start. They said there's more whistleblowers coming. Isn't this guy a lot like Elisando though in a lot of ways? Well, no, because Elisando, you could not figure out where he works. So he claimed he ran a tip. There is no paperwork to show that Elisando ran a tip. You know, I just finished dinner. I'm not quite hungry enough for like a dessert or seconds.

I'm feeling a little snacking. The favorite thing I like to put in my mouth to keep that hunger at bay is nuts. I love just putting nuts in my mouth and swallowing every bit I can to keep me sated during those snacky feelings. And I feel like some of you out there might also enjoy swallowing some nuts. If you like cashews, gummy bears, or olives, maybe popcorn, even saltwater, taffy, or trail mix, you can go to nuts.com and they've got you covered. Even things like sesame sticks, dried fruit, or my personal favorite chocolate covered espresso beans because I'm

a caffeine addict, and also chocolate is delicious. Nuts.com is your one-stop shop for freshly roasted nuts, dried fruit, sweets, pantry staples, like specialty flowers and more. Their wide selection means there's something for everyone that they're gonna enjoy and it's way healthier. Then like, I don't know, doing what I do, which is taking peanut butter and fluff and mixing it in a bowl and putting it in my mouth

as tears quietly streamed down my face. Well that's that calm, I don't need to do that anymore, I had a bag of wool and that's what I'm almost done with and I've got a whole thing of cash, it was just waiting for me and I left them for last because they're my favorite. You can shop all a car at any time, more opt-in to hassle free auto deliveries if you know you're gonna be a snackaholic so you never have to run out of your favorite items and if you're already stocked at home it also sells directly to businesses. Right now nuts.com is offering new customers a free gift with purchase and free shipping on all orders of $29 or more at nuts.com slash chill.

Just go get your delicious nuts at nuts.com slash chill. You're going to get a free gift and free shipping when you spend $29 or more. That's it. Nuts.com slash chill. He was a part of a tip, but we don't know what his position was. Elisando says that he saw stuff, right? Sure. So he actually is claiming to be even more of a witness to it than Dr. Grunchy.

What's the name? No, no, Grunch. GR, GR. I'm so sorry Dr. Grunchy, what's the name? No, no, Grunch. G-R-E-R-E-R-E-H. I'm so sorry. David Grunchy, if he's a veteran, he's not a doctor. If David Grunch is actually listening to this, I'm so sorry. But yeah, like, this guy's not even claiming, he's more like the guy from Roswell, who's

like, I know, I have been, I have been made aware that the government has access to craft, to bodies, to all this stuff, where like, it's frustrating because he's not, he's not seen it himself. I got to go look again, but I think he did see some craft. I think that's part of it. But the biggest problem here with this, the thing that is really upsetting is that it is a whistleblower publicly out there with his name in the media zero fear. So it's not the normal MO for a whistleblower.

Correct. Then we have this, I don't know, at least like no document, no pictures. No actual bodies, no craft, no nothing. And when you watch the interview stuff, he's like, I mean, that stuff's classified. So, you know, it's very hard. You can't entirely give anything completely because it's a man sang a thing, period.

Like a man has cred, but it's just a dude sang a thing period like a man has cred when it's just a dude saying a thing sure Oh agree That's that's you have to let's you kind of have to measure this against other dudes who have said things really Right see if what the difference is here if there is any And I think there is at least in this regard because he's definitely a higher regarded He's putting every every single person in the UFO world who is highly regarded seems to be putting their chips behind him. So if he ends up being nothing,

then all of their work and trust that they've built falls away with him, at least for me personally, because they haven't put, they haven't all put their chips behind somebody before. They just haven't. Let me, let me like, and obvious, and, in, in, obviously wait, before me finish my thought before you can take it away. And I'll be posted in a post that I linked you guys a couple days ago, talking almost as though he knows,

because remember he, he's got the Galileo project going where he's going to get, like, look for that piece of like wreck that fell into the water. He's speaking in that article as though he already knows it is not just a meteor. It's a piece of tech that's like fun. I don't know why he's talking like that, but suddenly he's speaking with pretty high confidence that there's going to be what he calls before and after initial discovery. Like the time it's going to change the way humans like look at the galaxy. So like two things. Yeah. One, you, everything we're saying is we're basing it. This guy's credibility

off of the other people we deemed credible. But why do we deem them credible? What have they delivered on the UFO front that makes them credible rather than they're just loud voices? The lobe is part of the NASA 12 person team that's working on his shit. That gives him credibility period to me. He was one of the 12 that was picked, and he's working on shit now. He's being actually funded. Christopher Mellon is another incredibly trustworthy guy who's put all of his military credentials out there. And like he is a guy, everything he's said so far has, like everything he said is coming,

has ended up coming. And so- Okay, then question two. Sure. And this is where I throw the wrench in, because I'm really excited. Throw all the wrenches in. This is what it needs to happen. Oh, I'm very excited.

Yeah, no, no, I want this. So if this guy is a whistleblower, but he's doing it, the complete opposite of the way whistles are blown, and the people backing him up, how are whistles blown? Usually. You literally, the people blowing whistles don't announce who they are. Like anonymously, like kind of like under the protection of. But that's happened in UFOs and nobody buys that. Nobody listens to the people who are anonymous.

But that's different. I'm saying what a whistleblower is. Like this guy saying, yo, I know the secrets of the government and stuff, right? And it just goes against what most whistle blowing is. So my whole question is, did Snowden hide who he was? Or not, I don't remember, to be honest with, like Snowden was a whistle blower, right? Did he like pretend or hide himself? I don't know that Snowden and reality and all the different people who like did things

like that did so announcing who they were upfront, right? They were discovered and then they became a thing. Right? Just like this dude who was discovered leaking stuff onto a Minecraft discord. Oh my God. Yeah, Ukraine. So I think he gave, I think he gave stuff to journalists is what's noted. He did.

The story was handed to journalists first, they have it still. So he went to New York Times and he went to the Washington Post first and then he said there was pressure to release quickly. It didn't elaborate as to why there was pressure. So they went with news nation, which people are like, what's news nation? It's like, it's owned by a mid-tier like news company. They're not like a newsmax or whatever. They're like, independent news thing and they have a, I think it was a trustworthy score of 42 out of 60 on Politico or something. So they're like in the good range. In case people

are like, who's that? Why, why even bother? So, sorry, continue. That's just how it was announced. So the wrench I want to throw in is again, let's do the setup. We have a guy who's out there in the public saying, I know these things. And I'm going to, and I want to tell you about them, but like I can't tell you about them, but they're there. And I can't prove it, but like they're there. And then the people who are all like he is on the money are people, for example, like this dude who works for NASA now. All I'm saying is, what if it's not a whistle blow at all, but something that we're being told for a selected

specific reason? I would be very fucking curious what that reason is because that that that walks into. I don't know. What if it's all set up, dude? That walks into like conspiracy territory that equally is believable as aliens, Jesse. Well, welcome. Welcome to the world that this show operates in. It sure is.

And tell me it's aliens. I can sit here and tell you. So we're being lied to. It's a conspiracy. This guy is this guy's a patty dude. So the whistleblower effect hopefully is he's the first of more than one. There's also being we're also being told there are more whistleblowers coming forward. Like hold on to your butts. Like June is going to have more whistleblower. So if that happens, like real quick real quick. Uh-huh. Take it back a minute We were also told by Many Republican committees that there were a lot of whistleblowers about

Joe Biden. They're gonna come forward. Oh absolutely. And it didn't happen none of them did in fact The ones that did come forward had no real evidence at all. Sure So I'm just saying we can be told a million things But this stuff it doesn't mean it happens. There's already a difference though, because the first whistle blow that the said is coming forward has now come forward. So there's a precedent set. Yeah, there is, there is sort of like looking into this a little bit more, right?

You can take this instance as its own thing and there's things that are shady about it. We've gotten into some of them already. But if you're subscribing to the like five guys that talk about UFOs that everybody takes seriously online like Mathis, like this sequence of events does seem to be consistent with a lot of the main sort of overarching things that everybody's already said. So you know, from Mathis' point of view, and the timeline falls in line with what they've been saying for months. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and so from Mathis' point of view,

I do see how you could say this time is the time. Right, and there may not, no whistleblowers may come forward and then that again puts their credibility in the dirt. Period. I just wanna like, I'll be honest with everyone. Just wanna swaddle and protect Mathis because his joy and love of this topic makes me happy and I want him to be happy.

And I'm so just worried that what's about to happen is once again, nothing, nothing will happen. And Mathis will have said on the show, I'm done, if nothing happens, I'm quitting, I'm done, I can't do this anymore. I'm gonna have to be here like, baby, baby, it's, it's, maybe, I'm quitting the show. Come on, I'm quitting aliens, I'm quitting the government, all right? That's what I'm saying, that's what I'm saying, is you're just like, I'm done, I'm done living my fantasy, I'm done enjoying life, I'm done having fun, right? I'm worried you're gonna be like, I'm over it.

No, because it would still mean the UAP mystery is still there. I'm over listening to these people who think they who consistently say they have knowledge we don't yet because they need for the channels to all prove whatever it is they got to do. Like whatever higher ups have to say okay, and then they're gonna come forward. And this is the first like this everything that I've been preaching up to this point has now been at least proven with one person, but they say more are coming. And I, I agree. We need more than one dude.

It just, it, it just feels very heavily like if you, if you strip away aliens and strip it all the, sure, take it down to like basics. It is the exact same run up and vibe as when all the QAnon people got all worked up about like the storms are coming. And then it never did. Finally January 6th arrived and they were like, yes, today's the day. And then there was no like big ending. I just don't think that's quite the same. No, but I'm saying like strip it down to the base, dude. It's the hype. And then they were told a day was going to happen, but change the world, and then it didn't.

And then there's still, there's like out there floating angry. This being, it's being picked up in a way that January 6th wasn't picked up on prior to what happening by all these news outlets. If it's not what he says it is. Well, it's more exciting. What do you think is the ulterior motive here? Of this? Oh, hell if I know, I just asked the question to get you all worked up.

I don't know. You got to, you got to ask the question back, you got to look at like, okay, so we just pretend he's hoaxing us all a lie. What is the end game for him and why? I mean, even if it's not a hoax, and it's absolutely true, I feel be it a hoax or otherwise the end game's still going to be the same. I don't think a week from now, people will be covering this the way they're doing it yesterday.

It's possible. You may be right. Everything might disappear. And I feel like we'll once again be right where we are every single time something happens where we get something and everyone in the space is really excited about it, because this could be it. This is the time. And then a week goes by and nothing happened and we're told,

well, it's the next, like it's slowly, like it's gonna happen though, just because it didn't happen right away, it's gonna happen. And that can only last so long. Right. Because one of the first things I said when you messaged us about it,

I was like, unless they start showing me alien bodies, and we're at that point where I'm kind of over the whole like, we saw like guys, we really did. So that brings me to the point is like, and that's honestly, it's a fair, it's a fair thing to say. Like I said, if no whistleblowers come forward,

and like they say they are, then again, that means they're credibility is in question. And I also agree, they are, then again, that means their credibility is in question. And I also agree a lot of people need and I think not a lot of people, everyone needs some sort of proof and something more than trust me, bro. Like I need, I need something, whether that be a photo of a craft or like government documents that can be like verified that they're real, that's explicitly saying nonhuman intelligence, etc,, et cetera. That much I agree with you.

I'm curious that, for some people though, it might take seeing a body at this point, and who knows if that'll ever happen. But in terms of evidence, what we are supposedly getting on this weekend is, and I texted it to you, boys, right before the show, is that 1933, so there's a little, we'll talk about it one day, as always, but there was a supposed UFO crash in 1933

in Sicily Italy, and supposedly the Americans got their hands on it before they, the Mussolini and his people bid. And the thing I sent you was one of the documents, one of them, I'm supposed to be, they're supposed to be multiple, I believe, of one of the documents from the 1933, the government specifically saying, and I'll read it out here for everybody before we all comment on it, so I don't mess it up. It says, by personal order, so this was telegraphed. By personal order of the D-U-C-E and in parentheses, this is Mussolini. It is disposed immediate repeat immediate arrest diffusion of the news related to aircraft

of unknown nature and origin, which in dispatch of Stefani dash date today, 7 30 a.m. stop. Immediate recasting of any leads from the newspapers bearing said news is ordered stop. Maximum penalties for transgressors are foreseen up to refer to the Supreme Court of State Security. Stop. Immediate confirmation of receipt required. Stop. Gentle Director Special Affairs and stop. And there's a picture of it as well. No, I don't know if this is real or not. Obviously, that's what we're hoping is going to get proven. We need more people coming forward. But let me just finish. I think I'm going to get through a story saying like we've been recovering craft. And the reason it's so secretive

isn't, isn't because there's a new world order all agreeing to keep people quiet. What he's saying is ever since the retrieval of the first one, it sparked a brand new cold war between everybody in a rush to try to figure out how these things work and then make them ourselves. And that, to me, is way more believable than like every government shaking hands and signing a document that says, we know aliens are real, no one ever talk about the Galactic Council, or you die. A cold war between the countries who have retrieved things makes way more sense.

And our own intelligence, I don't want to say officials, but agencies, CIIFBI. They all are always fucking fighting with each other. We've learned that over the past five years. There's not a lot of communication. And what he's saying is like, the parts are being held not in all one spot. Different people and different groups have different things. He was saying like contractors, AKA Lockheed Martin, which would make a lot of sense, have bits and pieces.

The Air Force has some, the CIA even may have some like, they're just, and they're not working and cooperating with each other because everybody's trying to be the first, be the one that figures it out. Retro, retrofit this tech. And that's where I, nobody's really been able to communicate across the world about it. I don't know if that's true, obviously, but that makes more sense to me than a giant, like I said, alliance of secret alien ports.

Yeah, like straight up to X files. Don't spoil anything. I've always been up to it. I mean, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just saying like something where it's just truly, the government is actively working against the people of the world. Yes, it makes more sense that humans are being humans about it. The thing that's interesting though is that if you take the other half of what's being said, which is we are using alien tech to increase our own tech.

We're trying. They've been supposedly no-success because they can't figure it out. It's science beyond what we know. Well, and I think that goes back to an interesting thing that has been said multiple times over the years, which is we have alien tech. We're trying to use the alien tech to make our tech better, help society this, this, this, or we're in alliance with them and they're giving us information and technology. Either way, I would be open to the discussion of, okay, yeah, if someone is giving us like future tech

or whatever, or we have a crashed version, that would lead like Len Kredouli to the idea of when you look at the way we've proceeded as a civilization or as a planet and how I was reading an article the other day about Gen Z shout out to my Gen Z ears out there. Dude, I love Gen Z so fucking much. According to this article, you guys suck at technology. And the reason why I saw that article. Yeah, the reason why isn't because Gen Z's bad at tech, it's because they never had access to a lot of tech. When myself and YouTube were coming up in the 80s, 90s, early 2000s, technology exploded. We went from having no cell phone, we went from like the spinner thing, like the rotary

phone. Yeah, rotary phones, baby. I loved those. To the dial tone phone, to a pager, to a cell phone, to a thing you can hold your hand in this computer. And that was in that time period. And that was fast. We went from giant, my mom, for her first computer, she had to put in cards that were whole punched.

And by the time I left my home, I had like a gateway PC and now the PCs are insane, right? We had to learn like a lot of different elements of it. I think about like, from in 2000, in 2000 when I went to high school, my very first like, my parents got the very first Nokia cell phones, those bricks, right?

And then when I was in only four years, the cell phone I had had a color screen that flipped open and keyboards. So it was like, bam, it just in four years tech blew up in there. And there's this crazy tech boom, but the thing that's interesting is, in the last 10, some say 15 years, tech kind of stopped. Not in that it got better, like it got crazier, but that, you know, it went from being, oh, well, you're going to go from your Nokia to your Razer to like, oh, now it's iPhone four, five. So it's the same, it's the same thing, same with, with computers.

It's the same thing, except now you're getting a, the next thing for computers is quantum computers, but we're still years away from having a functioning full one. Right. But I'm saying, like even, you know, even a graphics card. Oh yeah. Before, like 20 years ago, it was this wild, like, I'm trying to figure out, now it's, okay, you're gonna get your 2080, 3080, 4080.

And it's just incremental stuff now. And I don't know if that's the business of everything where, because everything's a business and all the businesses optimizing now. And I don't know if that's the business of everything, because everything's a business and all the businesses optimizing now pretty much control almost, you know, like there's very little actual competition anymore. Yeah, I think that's a big part of it for sure. Sure, but if we're on the alien thing, oh, no, if you could say to me, Jesse, we have alien tech or we had alien tech and that helped boom us. And now we're kind of, we run out, we used all the stuff we have and now we're trying to rely on old human ingenuity and we can't, like you could tell that to me, you could sell that to me. I'd sit there for the conversation.

It's logical in a way. I mean, that's, that's not even like a niche belief. There's, that's like a huge like belief is that like the early recoveries, what we're able to figure out, we were able to transition into tech that we have internet, Wi-Fi, touch screens. But it's also, I also think that a part of that almost has that ancient Egypt vibe of like not believing in humans enough. Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

I wouldn't be so, maybe we got a little something here and there if that even happened. But it's a conversation to have that like, okay, we can talk about that because even though it's in the space of like, that sounds insane. It's also like, okay, yeah. But again, what we have right now is someone saying we did a thing and I can't really prove any of it to you, but like trust me on this. And there's some key people that are missing

from the media cycle here that normally when something very verifiable happens. Yes. Who's missing still for you? Just huge. The New York Times is not covering this in the way that you'd expect them to cover something this Earth-shaking, for example.

Sure. Yeah, the people, I've got a, like right now, we've got the Guardian Fox Independent Newsweek Huffington Post, Vice New York Post, news hub, daily mail, burling skeck, which is Danish, Danish, Revu, which is Dutch and a one that's a French newspaper as well. Yeah, like let's not undersell the significance of the papers that are involved in this, like vice, the Guardian. Those are some big names, right?

Let's also speak of big names, even though it's not a name I ever want to say on this podcast. I'm going to do it anyway. Tucker Carlson came back with his first show on Twitter and it was all over the internet because his first show, the last half, is dedicated to this story. His first show back. And of course, his spin is like, you can't let that just go to the entire thing though. You can't let one do the thing. You know, the first thing, you're just like, okay.

And there's some spin on it about how like, you know, you're so busy worrying about trans youth that you're not focused on alien invasion. Like that kind of stuff, you're like, oh boy. But. No, man. The fact that like he is doing that to his audience, I think also says a lot.

I don't give a shit what Tucker says, but like his audience does and they are very passionate. It was a political article related to this member. I said Christopher Mellon just to give you, remind you what he was because I was, he wasn't just like a freaking soldier. He was the deputy assistant secretary of defense of intelligence. It was what his role was in the thing government prior. And there was also a comment from one of the authors saying the Washington Post did not pass on the article.

They just needed more time and it's coming. The big thing is like, I also want to talk before we, you know, maybe talk about more conjecture is the government's response to this. So the White House press secretary was asked about it and the press, your press gathering and she said, she basically dodged it and said, talk to the DOD. The DOD said, we don't have any verifiable evidence that these are true claims and kind of like left it at that. The Pentagon then said, denied all of it and said we don't have anything. And then the Congress is called a, announced that they're

doing a, what do you call it? Fucking meeting, I got a hearing from the name of it. Like a committee? Yeah, there we go. Overhouse, Chairman of the House Oversight Committee is intending to hold hearings on the UFO retrieval whistleblower claims. Dutch newspaper also, which is like apparently it's Dutch newspapers, like a big Dutch newspaper, same thing with the Danish and French newspapers, or like big ones over there. So you know, yeah, just wanted to look at the government, each branch is just saying something entirely different.

Nobody's saying the same thing, which is just, if you wanted to put this to rest, you would think that they would all just say no, no, no. Instead of not going to answer, they answer, and then Pentagon being like, no, of course not. And that's what Pentagon said about the videos until they were leaked and verified by the Pentagon. I wonder if they just know what it is though. You know what I mean?

Like maybe the lie isn't like. But they could simply say that. They don't just say what it is. What they could say is it's tech. It's just a top secret tech. Here's what I mean. Well, here's what I mean though. It's like, maybe it's a situation where it's like China, for example.

You know, and number one, and number one, that we don't want to get the word out on our end because we don't want people freaking out that China can just like roll on us anytime they want. Why isn't the Pentagon and the DOD's answer the same then? Because maybe, you know, we're just talking about a realistic situation that could be the explanation for all these things. So like all the different messaging from the government could be part of the plan to make it confused. And part of the, you know, this, even this whistleblower himself could be part of that,

just to discredit the idea that the government has any idea about what these things are. And maybe we are making our thing, you know, to defeat these things. And they're just trying to string China or whoever it is along at, you know, as long as they can into believing that we don't know at all what these things are. They have to believe that that tactic has been going on since 1945. Well, true, but I mean, you got to think about also in relation to that, just the recent weirdness that we had with China and the balloons. And just, I don't know, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, but that, see, that to me throws

there more into question of what we have because they are willing to give us high definition photos and videos of Russian and Chinese spy balloons and planes. But when it comes to this stuff, it's like only the shit that gets leaked and only after it gets verified by the Pentagon, like two weeks after it's been leaked and most people don't care anymore. Yeah, just nothing, nothing has made me leap to. It's definitely got to be something inhuman other than this guy saying that it's inhuman so far.

A big shout out to Butcherbox for sponsoring today's episode. Butcherbox is easily one of the most unique boxed deals that you can get out there in terms of all the stuff you can get in groceries delivered to you. With Butcherbox, you're going to get deals that compare to grocery stores much more favorably, and you're getting way higher quality meat. I used to stress out going to a market and worry about what I'm gonna buy from meat and how much it's gonna cost, but with butcher box,

that worry is so long gone. I recently just did dry rub ribs in my slow cooker, and I don't know, man, maybe it's my magic touch, I am known to massage nicely, and I'm sure those ribs really enjoyed a gentle rub. They were delicious by the way. Thank you, butcher box.

Those ribs were so good and smelling them cooked for hours over the course of the day was tantalizing. I drooled a few times, my dogs came over and and licked it up. They were excited too. They didn't get to have any but it was so goddamn good. Beyond the meat being so good I think maybe my favorite thing about it is the convenience because dude outside is terrible in Texas at summer. It's hot, it's muggy, it's just you know I sweat just waking up

sometimes. So having to go outside yeah I don't like to do that with a butcher box I don't have to worry about that and so so nice to become a hermit over the summer. And lucky for everybody here, Butcherbox is giving us a special deal. If you sign up today using Code Chill, you can receive ground beef for a year plus $20 of your first order. That's two pounds of ground beef free

in every box that you get for a year plus $20 off your first order, which is just like icing on the cake at that point. All you have to do is head over to butcherbox.com slash chill and use our code chill. Simple as that. Thank you so much to Butcherbox for sponsoring today's episode. So for me, like, you, for me, it's more like,

yeah, I agree with you. I just think of for me, it's more the puzzle pieces are starting to line up in a way that they haven't before. No, yeah, absolutely. I agree. I do think that like if you're a UFO follower that this is alarm bills, I think that's can you can the two of you explain that to me? How is everything lining up? It's just the same this this this thing about these whistleblowers and all that stuff is is consistent with what these other kind of maybe their crackpot, maybe they're not guys have been saying over the years, especially people like Ellison.

Right, right. But math is just saying that the puzzle pieces for this are lining up. So in what way is it lining up? Again, it's talking about Christopher Mellon and Avi Loeb. The things that they have been saying for nearly a full year now. That we have access to these things are happening on the timeline that they have been saying it's going to happen. Can you so for me, but let's also say for the audience, Wink, what is that timeline?

What are they saying? What are they trying to tell us? They said June 2023 would be the first whistleblower. And here we are in June 2023. When was that said and what was that relationship? Months ago, I'd have to get the article. Fuck, I don't mean they post again. It's just kind of like the story that they've been sticking to for a while. They've been the same thing that they've been saying for months. It hasn't changed. It's spun out of the same kind of area of this world where the, what is it, to the stars

academies? I would not put them the same fucking together. What I mean is the same sort of mythology of like the government has been obtaining and having pieces of this technology for years kept in like very specific places. We're using them to reverse engineer and the process by which we are doing that and releasing information to the public is all scripted and planned out basically. Right. So like what about June right now? What was the, okay, so what's happening in June?

Like what about that? Because they knew he had, he had clearance starting in April 6th of 2023 to actually publicly speak about it. So they have to wait into that point. The idea is they're all government insiders, by the way. Yeah, they all have to connect again. Christopher Lennon was assistant decadentist, defense secretary. Avilob is working actively with the government and their program with NASA right now that these are like people that have contacts and are speaking with people inside. So are you so, so hold on, this might change everything for me.

Are you saying that the team working with NASA and the government on this, they know these people, they were aware of them and they were instrumental in that coming forward? Yes, yeah. That has been the story for a long time. You've been talking to these whistleblowers anonymously, they wouldn't say their names, but they're coming. They're coming June 2023, the summer of 2023 is going to be it. And here we are.

And now I'm, that's why I'm just like, this is feels different. Okay. Because it puts all of their credibility on the line because they've been doing, seeing the same song and dance for over a year at this point. So that, that makes a lot more factual sense. If you have a team of people who are saying, this is a thing that's going to happen. And then it happens, like that checks out. The thing that is I'm curious about is the other people, are they also on sort of a, they

aren't allowed to talk until after such and such a day? Well, Christopher Mellon is being, he's been, he's just, if you go to his Twitter right now, he's just talking about like the whistleblower and that morgana come forward. What was the question again, I distracted myself. What I'm just saying, do they have more people coming forward? That's what they said. Yes, it's the same people that said this guy was coming forward that another whistleblower did come forward the same day he did, but he kept his name anonymous.

The name he used is not his real name. So it just like kind of went under the radar. Jonathan Gray or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yep, him. So because he still he still works in the government. He's still in the government right now. He still has his job.

Yeah, well, I mean, and that's I think what I was saying earlier about it doesn't follow the whistleblower M.O. Right? Where it's the dude still in the government. That guy did a normal whistleblower M.O., right? Where it's the dude's still in the garden. That guy did a normal whistleblow thing. So my question is, when we get, or when will we get more information about future people that are coming out? Because I think that's very important that there's a flow to it.

Should be, yeah, should be this month. And if we do, yeah, do they have limits like this guy where you said he was free to talk after a certain day? I assume I don't see that's the thing that he was only free to talk a certain day, only came forward when he was finally able to be free. He showed the piece of paper that gave him the date and everything like it was an actual thing that he signed. And he did testify to Congress for 11 hours that was verified as well. And he said he said all this shit to he said so the other thing is he said in that conference, the closed doors, he gave Congress like physical evidence, like photos and stuff.

So I don't know if he's not clear to release those to the public if that's part of it. Yeah, why couldn't he release those? I don't know, but that's what he's saying. And he did have a hearing like it Congress is not coming out and saying no. In fact, they just, like I said, the the overhouse committee just said we're going to do an oversight hearing on this. And we still have the Congressional public hearing coming out. It looks all, yeah, it all looks pretty good at first glance.

Yeah. It's all just, again, everything's like, it takes a gentle, blusk blow of wind to scatter the pieces before they land. And that's very possible. Sure, sure, sure. But it feels like a lot of it, like I just, all right, Mathis, we're going to use you as an example. This is also, you got to ask, I admit, you're the way you think, and I'm with you, is

because of decades of them treating you a foes like a Joe. Well, and this is a question that I have, and I'm going to use you as an example, but, Mathis, let's say you're this guy, you go before Congress, you have photos, right? You've given the photos to come, you have photographic evidence that this is real, and you have all the proof that everything you're saying is real.

If you go to the media and you say, I know this stuff, but I can't show you, but I can, I know it, I know it, I know it. Why wouldn't you just give the media photos and stuff? Like, what's the worst, what's the worst it could happen to you? He gets put in prison. Hold on, time out, time out, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, time out. Sure. Because if you give photos to the press, isn't that what reality winner did? And she got put in prison? Sure.

For like, yeah, one leaked document was five, five years? Or something crazy, yeah, yeah. Exactly. But what I'm saying is if you give the photos to the press, sure, only two things can happen. One, they throw you in prison, yeah, which then proves that it's real. I don't know, say it, not a lot of people believe Julian Assange, there's a lot of belief

on that split belief on him. Hold on, no, no, no, hold on, hold on. If you show photos and then you get thrown into prison, that's the government saying you're leaking classified, how can be classified if it's fake? Two. No, I agree with you. Two, if they don't throw you in prison, right? Cause they're like, oh, it's fake, then you're fine.

All I'm saying is, this seems like a pretty easy solution to me. If they wanted to get it out there, finally. Because I don't want to go to, because if it was me, if I'm being told as that person that there's a way for me to get this out there and also not be put in prison, then I'm gonna do it that way. If this would change humanity, you would think, I, if I had evidence, if I believed, I'd

take five years in prison to change the world. I don't know, man. I feel like it's a lot harder of an ask than that. And there's probably more, like risk to his, he doesn't have any of this, just to be clear. I'm not entirely sure. He is saying he might, he might still have them. I don't know. He's telling Congress that there is information that Congress is not being told and that he doesn't have this. Yeah. Okay. Well, then that's that's entirely different.

He turned over some information to Congress. But what information, was it just hearsay? I don't think he can, no, no, no, no, he's, it was like, it's classified. Yeah, it's classified. He met with Congress and turned over information to them. And then another guy, that guy that we were talking about, Jonathan Gray also confirmed exotic materials and said, we are not alone.

What would need to happen, Jesse, for you to be like, this makes sense, beyond just seeing a photo of a dead box. Um, anything other than a dude set a thing and I can't tell you anything because it's all classified. Like that's, that continues to be BS to me. I get it, I understand it in all facets of life, but you know, if it's, if you're going to say it's classified, I spoke to Congress or whatever, but now

I'm going to go public and tell the world, you got to come with the goods. You can't just like stir the pot and then be like, one day you'll find out, like, no, no, we got to stop that shit. He doesn't, he doesn't, he has not seen anything himself. He does not know where they are, or at least he doesn't say he knows where they are. And he, he says that there has been retaliation. Again, on Monday, he filed a whistleblower complaint to Congress and the intelligence community inspector general on classified information that he insists proves to recoveries of partial fragments and intact vehicles by the US government. It's allies to fence track contractors

according to the report. And he also filed a complaint because he was being, like you said, Alex, what was happening when he being targeted. It's not that this guy's sitting on a bunch of information that is the actual information. It's that he has been receiving word and knows the people in the government that are working on these programs actively right now. And they're being corroborated by a lot of people. And the reason that it's interesting

that all these people are backing him up is just because it seems to be legitimizing these claims. That's the thing, like he's, if he's gonna say something, but he doesn't have a way to show it, but there's somebody in the government that does and will corroborate a story, he can't come forward with his actual name.

So how the fuck are you gonna like trust him? Like he can't, because if he actually can't forward, it's like me, I work here, he'd lose his job, it'd be over for him. You know, like, so he's getting the reinforcement from somebody within the government, but he's using an anonymous name, as you say whistleblower should, and he's doing all the things you said a whistleblower should. But do you trust it? Because now you're getting an anonymous name, Jesse. Do you trust it? I mean, you can never 100% trust anything anyone says without evidence, right? Yes. I agree with you.

And this guy has, there's no evidence this dude is giving us at all. All the evidence is contextual. What's happening around him? He has evidence of the people. Yeah. What's happening around him from him coming forward is different than every other fucking XCIA person that's gone on Fox News to talk about aliens invading us because nothing fucking happens with them, but something is happening with this guy, which is why it makes it different.

I don't know that's true. You're saying something is happening. There's no difference in this moment between other people have come forward and this person. How have have you seen the mainstream media cover every XCIA dude has come forward and talk about aliens? Can you actively say that? Because it's not true. The moment hasn't occurred yet.

That's the thing that's, that's like kind of strange about this. Like, it's being picked up. That's interesting. It's interesting that it's on the Guardian. It's interesting that it's on Vice. It's interesting that it's on Newsweek. It is. Wapo, apparently, is putting out a paper.

Well, we'll see on that. That's rumour. We're like, we can't substantiate that right now. That's interesting, but the problem is that we haven't seen anybody ever make verifiable claims that the government is withholding stuff and then get covered. That still hasn't happened. All that's happened is that whatever is going on right now, this whistle blowing complaint is getting some really good coverage for some reason. Yeah. Two hours ago, the CBC news now is covering it.

Yeah. And the reason is not that there is evidence in people's hands. The reason is because the amount of people making noise about it is a lot larger, like a lot higher echelon people making noise about it. And that's simply it. If we were to look at this in a vacuum, like, ignore that, yeah, and then yeah, he's no better than any XCA coming forward, but nobody's come to those dudes defense, like ever. The tone is just eyeball emojis from all sides. There's not anything to judge. Right. It's just you got to look at how it's well vetted guy saying something crazy,

and a lot of people backing him up right now, which is simultaneously exciting and the problem because it does line up with these people who, I honestly did not think we're telling the truth. All these people right now, Elisando, all these people because. Yeah, Elisando especially, I still don't necessarily.

Well, they've just been rolling out the same exact story over and over again of like we're about to do something crazy and then they put it out and it's like not that crazy. Exactly. Literally every time. But this is the same, I mean, that's the same thing to me. It's not quite the same thing because this is a different level of guy.

So we still have to see. I mean, the guy is a different level, but the story is the same. Yeah. The idea is the same and a lot of the hangars on are the same. Yeah. The ideas the same and a lot of the hangers on are the same. Every time something blows up, the same people roll out like that guy's telling the truth though. Yeah, this is the one. They all do the same thing. Yeah, but have you had a guy come forward, give an interview and then they spend two months

fact checking every aspect of it to make sure that what they put out in two months is not going to be just trash and to make sure like the guys they're talking to, you have to trust the journalists, right? Because they're saying that the guy that they spoke to these people that work in the government under that fake name and that shit. So that's where you have to look at journalists to continue to trust them. But what did they fact check, though? Like what did they check? This man said some stuff and then you said they fact checked what he said.

Hang on. How? In what way did they fact checked what he said. Hang on. How? In what way did they fact check what he said? Because if he has no evidence, they can show them. There's no facts to check. There is evidence of the of the programs existing that he has given to Congress. But other than that, it's a it's a seal. The Congress hasn't shared that with anyone.

They not yet. And this guy hasn't given anything to anyone that then they are sure. No, like there's no facts to check. Correct. However, these people that they are talking to are backing him up as in a general sense in terms of his character. So that's the thing that's being fact checked is like, is this guy a pot, like a crackpot? Is this guy just some crazy guy on the fringes who's pretending and that doesn't seem to be the case. So is it in any way more remarkable from an evidence standpoint?

No, but there is this added level of legitimacy and that's the only reason we're talking about it right now. You know, it's because for whatever reason, this is this is the part that's interesting is that it's some kind of big new level of person saying this and that it seems like it's going to finally go through some channels that will result in evidence. Like if Congress was contacted and these claims are verified, there's no reason why we shouldn't be able to get access to that.

And if they put it classified, we won't even, we won't even, that, like, that seems to imply that it's true. So it's like, I'll just read this bit. We don't, a lot of people don't realize we do have an investigative team here that I work with. So Craig and Sean are two of the members of that team in particular. Sean, who's an attorney. So it's nice to have that kind of critical, or attorney, I, uh, bubble, I looped them in. Basically, Sean and Craig became the red team.

Their job was to go through this article that would, they were going to be writing and look at it. It's critically as possible, where are the deficiencies in there? Do they have combating facts? Where are the avenues that couldn't be attacked in terms of this information is accurate? Can we substantiate that? So they spent a lot of time really combing through word for word, looking through it and making sure that this was a good finished product. And while that was going on, my main role was really the background, fact checking investigator, which evolved independently. So taking what Leslie and Ralph had already done, but then completely independently looking into it. So basically other people would back checking and double

checking their shit, verifying it, making sure it's accurate. It's one of these things, something that's not going to come out of the article is that none of the of the words and the information changed because I was able to verify everything. What people might not realize is that we did bolster it. We added more witnesses to the story that affirm what Mr. Grush was saying had indeed occurred that it was true. So that's just a quick snapshot of one of the dude who was working on it. There's two, I link you boys, both part one and part two of the article. They get into even right after that, like how specifically they fact check specific people.

Yeah, they're talking about how they, like he's saying in the first few sentences, it says the whistleblower David Charles Grush, a veteran of the national geospatial intelligence agency in the natural economists office, services of economists offices, representative to the unidentified area, the UAPTF from 2019, 2021, they say from late 2021 to 2022 July, he was NGA's co-lead for UAP analysis and it's representative of the task force. And he's like, are those things yet to go check or is that background check stuff? And he says, they'd already done background checking, but we always have to verify. So we vet. That means another team independently corroborating every fact. So just for that one fact,

it was already vetted. Then they have to go in as the publication and verify independently. And he's on record. So it's so it's bang bang bang. He says, uh, he even goes on to say like, so luckily, we at the debrief have been able to forge some really good relationships with people across the government and in this space with the UAP. But outside of that, so in areas like the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency or the NRO, they realize that we're just trying to get information correct. And so these are people that we can call and say, hey, do you know this individual? A big part of this was not only verifying that he was who he says he was, that he was

in a position he says he was, which is a problem with Al-Azondo who we can't verify. But then for me as well, getting a kind of idea of who is this individual, is this somebody who's had a longstanding UFO interest, like what's going on here, what's going on in the mindset here? So they're even looking into seeing this guy was like into UFOs before coming forward with this. And if that was part of who he was, before all of this. And so that involved really getting to know Mr. Grush without directly knowing him and

talking to people that work with him as a colleague, verifying that he had worked with the task force, verified his work at the NRO and what his colleagues and co-workers thought of him. And I'll tell you that through that and multiple sources, no one had anything bad to say, but it's a good thing. And something that wasn't included in the article, but I do think is significant for people. It was significant for me because one of the questions that I had when I spoke with people that knew him was understanding the involvement that got him into UAP and that got him into the task force. He had no pre-existing interests or real interest in UAP, so it wasn't any experience with UFOs or any pre-existing interests that got him into that to where he is today. It was rather he had come, he had come recommended to the director of the task

force based on experience and for being known as a sharp analyst with the NGA. And somebody who, when the task force needed a liaison and NGA was someone who was recommended, but it was based on his reputation in the intelligence community as an analyst, not someone with an interest in UAP. That's just a, that's a small part of the part one of the article. It's a full two, two-parter interview and they go into detail even further like, what do you guys, what were you able to verify? Like, they goes, he goes on and says like, are you guys were you able to verify at all that these dates that it were given 2019 to 2021?

Are these all independently verified? Yes. Great. So Tim, the next thing here is in accordance with protocols, brush provided the Defense Department's office of pre publication and security review, the information that he intended to disclose to us. And it was cleared for open publication on April 4th and 6th, the information that he intended to disclose to us, and it was cleared for open publication on April 4th and 6th, 2023.

What is the Defense Department's Office of Pre-Publication Security Review, and were able to confirm that contention that it had been cleared for publication on those two dates? And he goes to say, so the pre-defense, pre-publication, security review, that's also called the DOPSR, each branch or component of the government has one of these offices. And so what it means is, anytime somebody who held a top secret position, or has worked with classified material, if they're going to discuss that work publicly, if they're going to write a book, if we're going to do an interview, that type of thing, they're required.

They're supposed to clear what they intend to say through DOPSR beforehand. Yeah. If you're like writing a memoir of your time in office or like of the president, you have to send them the full things they can approve it. Yeah. Their role is to determine what somebody is going to say, what they're going to write, if they're writing a book, what they're going to print and make sure that what's being said isn't classified information.

So they're essentially stamping and saying, that's fine, you can say that. And you know, they may in certain instances say, no, you can't say that or often they do. They'll say that you can say this,, you can say that. And you know, they may, in certain instances, say, no, you can't say that, or often they do. They'll say that you can say this, you can't say that. Because this, and then they kind of go on to ask that this mostly has to do with security and classifications. And he says, yes, there's nothing to do with ensuring that people who are even out of the government now, that if they're going to talk about their work

while working in a classified setting and government, if they're going to talk about that publicly, it's ensuring that the information they're talking about, they're not revealing national security secrets, just like Jesse said, or classified information. So this is a unique setting here because this is something you don't often see in any type of news article. You would see it with books, you'll see it when documentaries, but you often would never see this in a news or print article. But it does speak to the fact that Grush really tried to take the exact appropriate path, the exact official channels.

He tried to do everything right throughout his process. He hasn't gone willy-nilly. And so when you decided he wanted to come forward with the story, he put the information he wanted to share through D.O.P.S.R. and they cleared it. That doesn't mean that the Department of Defense is stamping off on what he's saying and saying, okay, yeah, it's all true. They're just saying, okay, we'll let you say that because it's not going to reveal any secrets. Thank you to our longtime sponsor Talkspace. therapy

is the crux of my week at this point. Every Monday at four o'clock, I have therapy and I look forward to it. Damn it, I'm not afraid to say it. Too many people out there are so afraid to say they want to get therapy. Or maybe they feel like they need therapy or maybe they just want to have therapy to keep their life moving forward in a positive direction. The stigma attached to it is unfair. You take care of the rest of your body when it gets sick, go to the doctors, the dentist, but for some reason, because no one can see their brain with their own two eyes, they don't like to worry about the brain.

They just, you know, I'll deal with it. I'll compartmentalize. Dude, I'm telling you. Seeing a therapist is so good for you. It's grounding, it's helpful, and it can help you overcome. Maybe a little bit of that talking issue that you have. Yeah, you, Jerry. I know you have one.

I had one too. You don't need to wait until something bad happens. Talk with a therapist. You don't have to wait at all. It's easy to find a good therapist now through talk space. Therapy can be a guiding light helping you shift your perspective. And like I said, you can find tools to cope in difficult times. Talkspace makes it easy to get started and affordable.

At Talkspace.com, you can sign up online and get a personalized match with a therapist who's right for you, usually within 48 hours. And just incredibly convenient to have virtual sessions with your licensed therapist from the comfort of your home. And there's no need to commute to appointments, misty at work, or line up childcare in order to attend sessions. It's mental health care made easy, as it should be. And as a listener of this podcast, you're going to get a hundred bucks off your first

month, with Talkspace when you go to Talkspace.com slash chill. The matter of the licensed therapist today, go to Talkspace.com slash chill to get a hundred bucks off of your first month and show you support for the show. That's Talkspace.com slash chill. They're just saying, okay, we'll let you say that because it's not going to reveal any secrets. Yeah, and I think that's why it's, I don't think it's a mistake to be covering this even if it ends up being fake just because of how verified it is.

Like I think it is, I don't think it's a mistake to understand this as a particularly interesting one of these L-U-F-O flap type things. The only thing I could think of is that hearing that, if we were to court of law this, the attorneys have some great witnesses, very reliable witnesses, but right now that's all they have. You know what I mean? Right? They can put dudes on the stand, have them say stuff, and we can be like, yeah, absolutely. But at that point, everything is circumstantial.

You're just, you're getting down to beyond reasonable doubt. Yeah, like that's where I need to be. I need them to wheel out a cadaver or else I'm going to be like again with this. It's important to look at this guy in this article and not treat it like every other dude has come forward because the due diligence was super fucking done here. But I feel like you have to until we... Well, it's more like, until more people show up. The claim isn't aliens are real, right? The claim isn't aliens are real. The claim is simply that I have heard

that somewhere in the government, there are things going on involving crafts from another world. Or from... You're not NHI. And you know how crazy that sounds, right? Like what you just said? Yeah, but that means the fucking government did their damn job.

Well, so his goal is not to get the truth out himself. I don't think he has the capability of doing that. I think what his goal is to get Congress to look into this. And I think that's what's interesting about this versus a lot of the other things that have happened, which are not trying to do that and are trying to blow the truth. So let me add this last bit into it because this is also important, is another fact check, he uses like,

okay, great, the next fact I have highlighted here that I wanna ask on the story is, it says Carl E. Nell, a recently retired army colonel and current aerospace executive, who was the army's director of the UAP task force from 2021 to 2022 and worked with Grush there called Grush's statement essentially correct. Were you able to confirm that Carl Nell is a retired colonel and that he did work those

dates at that task force? And they said, yes, now we were able to confirm just like with Mr. Grush, we were able to confirm through multiple sources that he did work for the task force during that time and that he did work with Grush. And what he was saying in terms of his support for what brush was claiming was accurate. And like brush, part of my work was understanding how were these individuals called to be part of the seemingly stigmatized topic. And in Nell's case, he wasn't.

He wasn't necessarily recruited to the task force. He actually was assigned there as the army's liaison. So it was one of the situation where Nell's an interesting one as well because he wasn't recruited. It wasn't recruited. It wasn't something that he necessarily wanted to be a part of beforehand. It was something that he was told he was going to be a part of, but the task force in the army, nobody had a choice here. But he came in, he ended up coming in and working with the task force and subsequently,

what he was exposed to, led him to the same kind of conclusions that Grush shared. So they were able to verify that this dude as well is like, he is a retired, recently retired and he's currently working in the aerospace executives world and was part of the UAP task force via army. It's pretty good. The last thing is the Jonathan Gray guy. So scrolling down next one, this statement says Jonathan Gray is a generational officer of the United States intelligence community with a top secret clearance. Who currently works for the National Air and Space Intelligence Center, where the analysis of UAP has been his focus. Previously, he had experienced serving private aerospace and DOD special directive task forces. Who was Jonathan Gray, and were you able to confirm these parts of his resume that were listed? Right, well, I'll just say this. I'm exceptionally cautious in discussing anything related to

that individual because, as you'll know, that's the only one, God damn page. That's the only one who technically still works in government. Still holds several classifications, works in compartment. I'll just say it was very interesting, it was very interesting, multiple sources confirmed for me. But somewhat to my surprise that in the NA, NA SIC, the National Intelligence Space Intelligence Center, yeah, that they indeed have been involved. They do share information with the UAP task force and have worked with them and have been involved in this issue.

And so there's not a lot I can say about it. Uh, so that's a little bit about who might Jonathan Gray is and where he's working in the uh, government right now. I know, I know we need, we need proof beyond a reasonable doubt. I agree with you. Now we need proof beyond a reasonable doubt. That's just not really the situation right now. To this, I'm hoping this is the first true crack in the dam that eventually floods us with

the truth. Whatever the truth is, whether it's fucking other tech that we've been making, tech from another country, or really is non-human intelligence or exotic in origin, it's not all going to happen in one day, but we need a big crack in the fucking dam, that's what whistleblowers are usually for. So I'm hoping that's what this is. The first that eventually paves the way, and I hope we get more physical evidence,

like the supposed evidence that we're getting this weekend, the leaked document that I link to you. It's just that like through the fact checking and what they've done, he at least seems stand up compared to any other fucking person who's come forward about seeing aliens and having psychic, you know, sex fest with them. I guess the big thing for me is the only way I can describe this that makes any sense in my head is we're coming at it from different perspectives.

Absolutely. different perspectives, where the way I would describe it is man versus ape, right? Where you're telling me that man and ape, look how different we are. Look at us, but I'm telling you genetically actually we're very, like that kind of thing and it's, and you're telling me like, but look, Jesse, look with your eyes and I'm telling you, yeah, but using the science of like DNA, I can tell you we're actually quite similar. And that's where we're at, where I'm like still not impressed yet. I'll be there if something cool happened. Really, even the fact checking and learning like the due diligence they did on this guy

that he's not this nobody dude, that they like had multiple groups looking and making sure. I promise you there have been other not nobody dudes in the past, but not to this day. Like every ex I can I look I use XCIA because there's no difference except for that it's being picked up. And they're not there's a but the what but the so it's being picked up. Why? Why is this one being picked up? That's the question you should be asking.

Good question. I can't say that you know. That's like talking to the Republicans down here sometimes and be like, okay, you have a fact, you're using it incorrectly. Now think why is that current? Why is that happening? And if you go, okay, hang on, let me think about it, that's what you need to be doing. The answer's not going to be, oh, well, it's true.

I'm not asking you to say it's true. I'm asking you to say this doesn't feel different to you. Then like when Tucker Carlson, it doesn't, yeah, fucking interviews, an XCIA guy, I'm Carlson tonight. Like, I don't hold that to any shit. It just depends, it just depends on, it just depends on how cynical you are.

It's fair. That's really, that childlike wonder still. I'm open to being hurt still. I'm vulnerable. I see, I see how it's different. I will I will give you that right. I am not saying it means that it's true. It does mean that no. I'm just saying we've been in similar situations before. It's it's in a lot of ways. Even with this, it feels like of all the weird times that those 2012 guys say that the end of the world is coming.

This one feels like the one that's November 12, 2012 or whatever, right? It just, if it didn't have, lobe and melon and all these guys who are still working with the NASA team and shit attached to it, I would also feel like I'd be on Jesse's side of like, man, this doesn't feel all that different, but it has the people that have any credibility attached to it, and that's what makes me a little more more open to be hurt, you know what I mean? Opening my heart. Yeah, but I will acknowledge, like, you know what I mean? Like, I will acknowledge that it is different.

That's the main thing. I think I'm acknowledging that it's different, but also that I still feel like it's going to fizzle. You know, and that's because you know you've been hurt before. I get it. I have to. Yeah, exactly. I would like to, I'm trying to do this now, but the current UFO talk is like way to

on the internet. Oh, God, yeah. It's hard to parse through a lot of it. There's a lot. Like, but I would love it if someone, someone. It's hard to parse through a lot of it. There's a lot. But I would love it if someone out there, usually I don't ask a lot of you internet, but I'm going to ask, someone out there would whistleblower search for, or just look up UFO conversations with the government or in the public sphere, or was picked up everywhere from like the 90s or the 80s or the early truth. Like is there another example in the past similar to this or is this really truly that

big of a moment? I would love to see another an example that's akin to this. The only thing I can think of is the 2017 thing, which is when Corbule and Elizondo kind of hit the map because they dropped videos that were denied by the Pentagon, even while they were out there for like two weeks before the Pentagon relented and said, okay, they're real. There's a article out there on the Atlantic called, why is everybody suddenly talking about aliens or America's long, strange history of UFO whistleblowers? By the way, that fucking statistic that 92% of UFOs happen in the US is a flat out lie.

That's not true at all. It is worldwide phenomenon and not 92% of the US as a flat out lie. That's not true at all. Then it is worldwide phenomenon and not 92 percent of the US. That is a misinformation. Yeah, I don't know what's up with that, but I don't know anything about that, but I will say that that article on the Atlantic. Yeah. Kind of it, it's talking about Elizondo and it's talking about Kaho from from from earlier. I looked this up while I was asking about the the Roswell guy earlier and I found this and it's the closest that I can see. I don't know

that much about this. Otherwise, I, you know, but it's not totally unprecedented, but I will say that the amount of coverage that it's getting is uncommon. Sure. I could say that. I could see that. I truly, like, I think the 90s, man, we were much more ready for disclosure. if disclosure is a thing. There was a moment on TV with that tape that was really pretty wild. The, the, the, the, the, the, the, the Roswell the section tape, right?

The thing that ended up being fake, but like, but like, I remember it being majorly covered, but it wasn't the same thing as this where. But like that guy, when you start to look into him, you're like, oh, this guy isn't trustworthy. Fucking at all. Right. Exactly. So I don't know.

This one seems to be a good mix of legit background and out there claims. So we'll see what happens. Before we wrap the episode then, let's end on a fun note. Hypothetically, this ends up being true. We don't know if Greys are real. We just know we have bits of what is potential technology from something that's not human. How do you react to that? Does that change anything for you guys? Like Jesse, you've said many times, doesn't change

how I live day to day. It wouldn't change too much, but it would be cool. Do you sit by that now that like maybe that might be happening? I mean, like if aliens were real and they changed reality for us, that would be great. I'm fine being proven wrong. I was proven wrong last week. When I mistakenly thought Captain Kid was Steve Bonnet. Oh my God. Yeah, I've seen all those fucking comments everywhere. By the way, here's the thing. Here's the thing. Go look up their histories. They're like, they're like, yeah, when you have a broad, when you have a broad historical knowledge, it's sometimes you mess up the guy's names. They were the last in the group of like pirates were also kind of like that cool night pirate

where they like, we're like, we're good guys, but also we're bad. They they fit into the same category my bad. I'm always down to be proven wrong. It happens. I don't have any go with that shit. So if they were to say here's the evidence, this is a thing and it was real. I'd be like, whoa, and then I'd be on this podcast being like what now y'all? What does this mean for the world?

The thing is, from what he says too, he doesn't really know who or what these things are, what they want. So it's still plenty of, if it's true, what could it be? And I still believe we're probably either the Senneles tribe in this space, don't touch them, let them continue almost prime directivity. Because we do, if you can't get close, we are off for you. Yeah, we just like, so they're like, maybe not up. There's the theory that maybe whatever it is here is like AI watching us waiting for whoever

to come take the planet for themselves. It's the, you know, it could be anything. Uh, I just, just to know that there's something out there. It would also bring the question is like, is life rare in the universe then? But it also like, a life rare in the universe then? But it also like, a lot of that also goes against why they would hide it. You know what I mean? Like, if we discovered AI was monitoring us in case the aliens came back or whatever, wouldn't we as a species be like, oh, guys, we're being monitored and things could come,

we should be prepared for that. Yeah, I can see. If you can convince, if you can convince people to believe it besides Mathis, there's no way to prove it's AI too, right? It's just a theory. I mean, you could it. People would be like, one world government, they're trying to control us. Like, you know, a lot of people say that today and I don't really, I don't really give

it much credence. Yeah, yeah. There's really nothing to like, if they wanted us dead, we'd be dead already. I imagine. The aliens? Yeah, if they were, if this is real and they wanted us dead, we'd be dead already. I imagine. Aliens? Yeah, if they were, if this is real and they wanted us dead, I feel like we'd earn to be done. Right, but like, it's, if they're real for fun, then you're absolutely correct.

If I shut off Jesse Brain, then like, honest to God, there's no, if I just like live in the moment, there's no reason. Legit, I'm ordering pizza and I'm just inviting you guys over. And we're just gonna hang out. I would hope that it would spur like a tech, another new technological push, like from people in the world, maybe. But no matter what, there's gonna be pushback.

Oh yeah, of course. It would definitely give me to eat some pizza. No matter what happens, if it's real, if it's fake, if aliens show up tomorrow, someone will tell you that that's what you're seeing isn't real, and it's something else. And there's sion. And this is one of the things that upsets me, because I feel like a lot of the conversation is well, the government's afraid to tell people, there is not going to be a moment where

everyone's on the same page. There's not going to be a moment where we're ready to change like we don't change until the last minute anyway. We're barely trying to save the planet when shit's on Canada's on fire. Canada is on fire, bro. I know, dude. What Grush is saying though makes more sense to me. He's not saying that they're trying to keep it from us because we're not ready.

He's saying there's a like a technological cold war happening between all the coverments. And so everybody's trying to keep it secret because they don't want to, they're trying to win. And so if whoever can crack the tech first, prop if it's true, again, fun world words true, that would change everything the country would just dominate. And that makes more sense to me than the humans, the societies, the societies, they'll crumble. I can see it more being like, no, we got to get it before fucking China gets it. We got to get it before Russia gets it.. We gotta get it before Russia gets it.

We gotta get it before UK gets it. Then wouldn't it make more sense to have an alliance of nations? You know what I mean? You would think, think about like what it took to just get US into World War II. It took us until we had general fucking electric funding than Nazis. That's a lot of people in power were actual literal Nazis though. Like we were, we had actual literal Nazis running the government for a while.

You don't think that's still happening now? Like that's the same argument can be made. He's got a point there. He's got a point there. They're all now talking to each other because they're all trying to fucking out do each other to hate each other. And then I'll try to be the first.

It's just a bunch of dummies scrambling on top of each other to control everything. You would have figured of all the people Trump would have been the guy to be like, aliens exist. You think anybody went up to Trump and said, here's some alien stuff, sir. Let's go show you the ships. Probably, you know what? Probably not. Let's go, really. They probably do not tell him, bro.

He can't handle that. I would have had that to him. He had a worker, full drain his pool into the server system to wipe out footage and failed. The man cannot be trusted to know aliens are real. I'm just like, man, I just, there's so many cogs in this machine of secrecy that is just like, surely, at some point, if all this was real, we'd have some. But we have. We never have anything.

We've seen pictures that are made to be pretend to be fake. We've seen videos that people dismiss. What, what, what you just said is, Kukuku bonkers, we've seen pictures that were made to pretend to be fake. No, I meant made to be fake, made to be fake. I mean, to be pretend, yeah, yeah. We have talked about hoaxes,

but then we have stuff dropped from the government that's real. We are getting real things. How do you know? Because it was verified in 2017 that it was real. How do you know, bro? So then like, at that point, you go, who do you trust? Nobody, you don't trust anyone. Like, what is like, at that point, you have to ask, like, what is it that'll convince me?

I don't trust. The truth. I don't trust Instagram photos, man. Instagram photos? I'm already like, no, if it's online? I don't trust the truth. I don't trust Instagram photos, man. Instagram photos? I'm already like, no, if it's online, I don't trust it. Mathis, the main thing that is clear to me is that you need to watch X-Files as soon as possible. We've seen two episodes.

We need to see more now. You need to watch, you need to watch more as soon as possible. Yeah, you need to get to the alien of the week. You're not alien monster of the week episodes. You need to get to when molders in that train and you'll that's where you're at right now in your real life. I mean, I guess I don't know what that means. You'll you'll know you'll learn. You're about to learn. I just to wrap this up. I'm not it's just this has more credence to me and if it all fails than ever then the per how, like, low working with the government means nothing anymore? It's he'd just be somebody you can't trust anymore.

Like why it just get, just get your girlfriend, come on a plane to Good Old California, we'll have some pizza and we'll just stare out the window and we'll think about what the fuck is going on. Now can we go do mushrooms together? Let's see what happens. Yo, I would, if I'd believe whatever we saw then, I'd be like, yo, the universe is us, bro. I'd be fine. That's the like $10,000 on Patreon of real life is if aliens are real,

Jesse does shrooms. Okay. Well, we got to wrap this episode up because I can't, my voice is already going and it's just going to go worse. Jesse, I hate when you push my buttons on purpose. Do it. Who's got to, who else? Who else would do that for you, baby? I don't have an answer for everything you say, okay? And we're talking circles for hours. Well, yeah, yeah, I can keep it up all day. All I can do is promise you some real verifiable mystery stuff over on the mini-sode where

I will be continuing the story of Giuseppe Larosa and the order of Mionia for you guys. It only gets better. It does. Look, in these little drip feed amounts, it's never too outrageous. You know what I mean? They're like on a Lord of the Ring style quest right now. Yeah. It's way too outrageous, but because of the little doses, it's like, you know, kind of

the monster of the week and I'm here for it. Yeah, fun little hit. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Yeah. Well, that's what we're going to go do many so time. Thank you guys so much for listening to us. This is a big one. Come check it out. I'm excited. It's always big. They've been like 40 plus minutes every week for like the past three months. All right. Anyway, we're off. Thank you guys so much for the support. Thank you for listening. Hey,

and if you're on Spotify, use the comment and cue in the poll, please, because it's basically like engagement and it's very good for the machine and just follow us on Spotify as well. Get an argument on Spotify if you love the show, please. Tell me I suck over there. Jesse's wrong, let me have it. Dude, we're gonna get both, I get both. You man, you get the Jesse just cuts Matt this off all the time and man,

I'm not, which master's were just stopping think for a minute. Just like, all right, whatever. Yeah, it's all good. Alex Rules, that's what I'll tell I ever hear. Alex is always, everybody loves you, everybody loves you Alex is like I can't I was rules he's laughing all the way to the bank he's the smartest guy in the world that's true it's true I can't think of a negative a post about you

other than you looked like that guy from the power rangers oh I look like the guy from the too many cooks video that's who I look like now that's that's thank you guys we love you they give us a support we'll see you next week. Pedro.com. So I'd too many problems here there. Bye Anyway Me and my wife were sitting outside indulging on our porch one night enjoying herself I needed to go to the bathroom so I stepped back inside and after a few moments I hear my wife go Holy shit get out here. So I quickly dashed back outside

Holy shit, get out of here! So I quickly dash back outside and she's looking up to the sky and fall. I look up to and there's a perfect line of dozen lights travelling across the sky. 1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5- Thank you. Thank you.