Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 214 - The Assassination of JFK - A Whole New Theory - Part 1

Episode Date: July 31, 2023

Alex brings us back to JFK, and starts us on a whole new theory. Don't worry, if you missed the 1st series, you can listen to this without having to! Patreon - http://www.patreon.com/chilluminatipod MERCH - http://www.theyetee.com/collections/chilluminati Special thanks to our sponsors this episode - EVERYONE AT HTTP://PATREON.COM/CHILLUMINATIPOD PROMO CODE FOR ALL - CHILL50 HelloFresh - http://www.hellofresh.com/chill50 Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - http://www.youtube.com/user/superbeardbros Editor - DeanCutty http://www.twitter.com/deancutty Art Commissioned by - http://www.mollyheadycarroll.com Theme - Matt Proft End song - POWER FAILURE - https://soundcloud.com/powerfailure Video - http://www.twitter.com/digitalmuppet

[♪ Music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in Hello everybody and welcome back to the Chaluminati podcast episode 200 and 14 as always on one of your host Mike Martin joined by the Rob Briden Steve Cougan of LA. Ooh, I want to be Steve Cougan. Oh, called immediately. Yeah, all right. You know what? I'll take Rob Briden. I like Rob Briden. He's a nice, he's funny.

It makes me laugh. I love Steve Rob Riden. I like Rob Riden. He's a nice, he's funny. It makes me laugh. I love Steve Cougan, so we're, all right. Steve Cougan's much, much funnier than Rob Riden. No roasties, but no roasties. Rob Riden's a very like sort of old school, sort of like, smarmy, Welsh TV comedian.

Like, I mean, he's in movies. I'm not like trying to diminish him, but he's like a host of a lot of TV shows and stuff. He's very good. He does voices, but he's old, man. It sounds diminished. I'm gonna let you know, it sounds diminished. He's old. He's just, you know, he's old school. He's an old soul. That's why I'm such a Rob Riden in my life going, you know.

You know, I mean, that's true. If he is old school, then you Alex are that. That's like, Yeah, your whole existence is existing in the 60s. Yeah. Yeah. Which I've been doing now for a long time and yeah, with that wonderful segue folks, welcome back to the first thing I've written on this show in some time that is based on something from history that without question actually did occur. And speaking of changes of pace, I'm in a new era of advertisement here with regards to patreon.com slash Tumonari pod where I've decided that rather on focusing on the likely tens of thousands of people out there listening to the show for free who I might not ever be able to convince to fork over a meal or two is worth of money per month

to get access to all types of good stuff like ad free episodes weekly mini soads rotten popcorn episodes our new show incredible digital art yeah minisodes and incredible digital art from the unequaled studio melectro and free merch every time we put out new merch. No, instead, I've decided to focus on just one person. And that person is the heroic post-ghost Christmas goose Ebenezer Scrooge type who's actually crazy enough to fill our one, $10,000 a month slot, which not only will make Jesse literally change

to a believer instantaneously, at least for one month, but will also quicken the production process on tons of other stuff we got cooking like video content, live shows, meetups, and even more cool stuff that you can't even imagine. So wild, nerdy, big-hearted, millionaire slash billionaires out there, this buds for you, patreon.com slash chumayani pod, patreon.com slash chumayani pod,

patreon.com slash chumayani pod, and God bless us, everyone. I feel like we're asking if we're gonna target millionaire billionaires, if we're like we're asking for a little too little. I'll suck your dick, all right? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Baby steps, he was like, I thought that Jesse I feel like we're asking for a little. I'll suck your dick, alright? Whoa! Baby steps! Baby steps, he was like, I thought that Jesse

meant ask for more money and Mathis was like, sweet in the deal, how about my sweet, sweet lips? That's what I meant more money, I didn't mean to. No, oh, oh, oh, me too! Yeah, let me a new tier. Anyway, anyway, yes. Yeah, yeah, yes. We're not gonna go any farther down that road. Yes, indeed, at, yeah, yes, we're not going to go any farther down that road. Yes, indeed.

At long last, I don't think that's a lot on Patreon and at long last, it's time for JFK two, the Oliver Stone, a second instead of episodes about the late great John Fitzgerald Kennedy, who if you believe the official story was assassinated on November 22, 1963 in Dallas, Texas by an ex-military marksman with an out infamous three-part name Lee Harvey Oswald, who made a one in a million shot, maybe, an acted alone, and then was eventually killed by another man, nightclub owner, and possible career criminal, Jack Ruby, who also acted alone on behalf of the city of Dallas and America and weirdly, Jacqueline Kennedy. And that, as they say,

is that before we dive in, we have to be quick five minutes real quick. You know what? We have to get the feel at the altar really quick. We're going to talk about more detail in mini-sode. So patreon.com slash lumenodipod if you want to get the full left straight down. I just want to catch your thoughts on the congressional hearing. That's it. I don't want to go deep into it. I just want to snap shot of your thoughts of the Congressional hearing. That's it. I don't want to go deep into it. I just want to snap shot of your thoughts of the UAP Congressional hearing on microphone for our audience. Yeah, just to lay it out for everybody who didn't see it

and maybe listens to this show, everything that Grush talked about in that interview, everything that we've been hearing over the past two months, three months or whatever, however long it's been going on now, everything that we've been hearing, actually like all the military sightings for like the last couple of years we've been talking about on the show. That's pretty much the extent of what we talked about at this hearing. Except now it's on the government record. He said it to Jamie Raskin, you know, real politicians. And it was real good. Yeah, AOC was there. Real politicians with actual track records.

I saw Matt Gaetz talk more earnestly than I've seen him speak about anything in the last seven fucking years. If you walk away from anything with that hearing, it's watching AOC and Matt Gaetz and all of them never posture with each other, work off of their own, like the others questions, like continue their questioning and also like Give themselves respectable compliments at the very beginning of like thanking each other for being here I've it's I don't think I've ever seen that group of people Work bipartisan like that ever before. It was wild. So here's the so just so that yeah, the hot take for me is this

I am no further Convince or not convinced than I was before the conference on whether or not it's real, right? Yeah. But I don't think that's my belief meter is bud. But I don't think that's the point. I think the point now is that if it were true that this is all real and that people within the government needed to come out and disclose

some stuff for like national security purposes and because we're taxpayers and we're paying for this and it's been being hidden from us. This is exactly what it would look like. Yeah, boring, a hearing. Yeah, this is what they want and people want them to be like, why don't they just come out and show everything and the answer is people go jail for that. The people with the info don't aren't the people that are in this hearing.

That's not the point is that they're trying to force the people with the info to show it to the American people. These people are the people that are like not in control of that information who are trying to get control of it because they have clearance to see it and have heard too many stories. You know what I mean?

Yeah, and apparently they've seen some things behind the scenes that was like hand in some video wise, but you don't have evidence. Well, that's, yeah, that's neither here nor there. That's only available in the skip. Exactly. No evidence of that other than their words. Yeah, that's exactly. A skip hearing was happening with AOC.

Yeah. Or something to do with that afterwards. Basically, yeah, he was like anybody who has the clearance who wants to like come get some more specifics and some names and some stuff like that. He was going to give the literal names of people working the programs now and the places the programs are happening now. But that's so clad, like that's so security clearance to had to be at the skiff meeting or whatever it was. Yeah, which is the, it's called like, everyone, it's like a secure something room. It's like SCF. It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's exactly. I don't know what it's a room either, it's like a conference room. That's private. Yeah, private personal conference room. That's how I feel about it. I don't know about you guys sure Oh, we go to Jesse before I give my wrap up thoughts on it. I don't think your beliefs. Obviously your belief hasn't budged at all either. I don't think any of ours have no no

I think it's interesting. It's it's one of those things that is you get to watch it? I know you've been super busy with travel and stuff, so I'm not even sure you got to see the whole thing. Yeah, I mean, I got to watch highlights and clips of it and stuff. Roughly what we heard before, like you said, except now it's on a government record, which is fine. I feel like, you know, we're still in the same space we were before, except now it's like a bigger

stage that makes any sense. So yeah, I think that makes sense. It's, could this lead to something? Yes. More, it is a better chance now than ever before. Will lead to something. I'm still not convinced of that. I'm still in the space of like, this is going to be a whole bunch of nothing still. Um, yeah, unless they drag out the aliens like this is glip glorp. And he is here. Like, at this point, what else is there to say or do? You know, no, yeah, I agree. I think, you know, I'm mostly on, uh, agree with all, all the points that both of you said.

I don't think this meeting, this hearing rather wasn't for people like us, so to speak, the ones who are so deep in the know because I don't give you a choice. You know, I do all the fucking like I'm so deep, we already know all this stuff. This was, as you said, this was to get the stuff on record, to get it into under oath on record. Something I learned through the research is AARO's Sean Kirkpatrick, when he , do you remember the testimony, the whole public testimony he did during that time? None of

that was under oath and I had no idea. None of that was under oath. This was. And so everything that we heard from them is stuff that we knew because we've been kind of following it for a while, but it was to get it on the record so that the Congress can then make the legal next steps to investigate because you can't just jump in and demand private companies, you know, this, that and the other with that. There has to be precedent, yeah. There has to be precedent and you can't just jump to the end and, you know, be that whistleblower because that's the people who get, like, distrusted and smeared the easiest because they didn't go

through the legal channels. And this was really for the big thing, the public in a lot of ways. The public who don't follow this stuff. This was covered by major news outlets, AP news, you know, ABC, Fox CNN, fucking all the three letter alphabet news companies, row articles, Washington Post. And it was really for them. It wasn't the stuff that we heard was good to hear them say. I really was curious if we're going to hear them say they have craft or any sort of biological matter in any way. And they did. I didn't think that was, I wasn't convinced that that was going to happen. But this was, yeah, to get it out there and like you, Alex, I've had a lot of people texting me that you'd be yesterday and today, like, did you see the news?

Did you see? Did you see? And I'm like, okay, so the people who never heard of this up to me ever gave a ship before are now talking to me about it. And that means it at least reached ears that normally wouldn't. And that's really what it for now. Like I said in my tweet two, I think we're at the peak whistle. We can't, there's no more whistleblower can really do at this point. Like we have the Senate hearing coming up next and obviously the Schumer amendment added to the bill about UAPs. But in terms of like it's all into, it's all up for investigation now. Like we need the physical

evidence, they need to be looking into the private like a Raytheon and Lockheed if these actually have, you know, crafter, whatever. It's watching the law work because now it's going to take months as things grind, you know, law just takes fucking forever. I'm just looking forward to September at this point, Senate hearing. Yeah, the Senate hearing is the next thing to look forward to. I don't know what to expect under the Senate hearing, though, at this point. Senate hearing. Yeah, the Senate hearing is the next thing to look forward to. I don't know what to expect under the Senate hearing though at this point. Like I'm genuinely not sure. You know it by now, but I'll say it again. Thank you to Hello Fresh for sponsoring today's episode.

There's not much more I could say about Hello Fresh, other than how much I've loved it, how much I've been using it for almost no, now definitely over two years and how I could never go back to ever not having hello fresh. The simplicity, the convenience and the cost for three really good meals a week is just not matched anywhere else.

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to try and love. And that's kind of my habit personally with HelloFresh. When I get my box, I choose two meals that I know I like and one that I have never tried before. And I can't think of a meal that I have disliked from HelloFresh. I have my favorites and I have my least favorites, but whatever it is that I end up picking,

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for so long and constantly giving me delicious dinners. Oh, and sponsoring the episode. I feel like the reactions that everyone you know has is totally different from everyone who messaged me because it's really funny that yeah, everyone's like, oh, wow, but also people are like, I got bills to pay a man. Like, I don't even, like, I got something to do. Oh, but there's a mix of that as well. Like, yeah, I get the text message, but a few of them are like, you know, there's like, this fucking aliens and I have to pay rent in a week. I, yeah, I saw that, I saw that tweet that was like, I'm not paying any student loan payments

if there's aliens. Yeah, and I wonder if that's another reason the government, if it's, if it's doing the slow roll. That's great. Maybe that's why they don't want people to like stop participating in the economy because they now, you know, there's aliens. I don't know, it's all speculation, but I agree with you, both of you. We're really at peak now.

Peak whistleblower, that's just not much more whistleblower can do without. So much they can do, yeah. Yeah, there's not much they can do at this point. It's on record under oath, unless the next Phil whistleblower brings video photos or physical evidence. It's just up to investigation now. And we kind of have to have to watch it as sucks. We're civilians. We don't get to be privy to the skiff meetings and all this other stuff. I do want to know more about that fucking red cube, though. Let's let me let me know more about the red cube AOC. Tell me more. We'll talk more about the details a little bit in

the mini-sode, but just the quick surface thoughts there and give it back to Alex. Thank you. By the way, just really quickly, because I want to make sure that we can, we have this out there for the public. A skiff is a sensitive, compartmentited, information facility. Okay. Meaning just like really hard to spy on, I'm imagining.

Basically. Yeah, it's like a place where you go talk about secrets. So funny, it's clearly a room, but it's information facility, like, alright cool. It's probably like the most boring fucking room as well. It's like running on. Of course it is. An old 2000's computer somewhere. Well, it can't have internet connection.

Oh, true, true. It could just be like a shitty like where the babies go in church when they cry kind of vibe. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, man. You can't bring in phones. You can't have internet connection that sells zone is dead. It's interesting. I'm grateful as a bipartisan skiff meeting as well, not just one or the other. I want that to be my bedroom, actually. That'll be great. Back to JFK and the mysterious, the mysterious energies flowing from the Oliver Stone.

Yeah, it's, it's too perfect. If you are interested in the basics, the events of the actual JFK assassination, if you are checking in, the last time we did this was like, you know, quite a while ago in our episode order. So if you need to go back for a refresher, you wanna go listen to episode number 139, then you wanna go listen to episode 158, then you wanna go listen to episode 159, and then you wanna go to episode 160,

and then you will never have any questions about the day that John F. Kennedy was murdered ever again. Just kidding, you will have many questions about it again. But today, both in relation to JFK and in a larger sense myself, editorially, we're gonna sharpen focus a little bit, tackle some more specific subject matter related to the case that I think is interesting

to talk about and pump out some nice, crisp, clean episodes for you guys and the fine people listening at home that just sort of hum along without bloating it with all kinds of weird meta stuff and extra length based on Chaluminati show lore or anything crazy like that. It's wild that we've been around so long that we have lore to our show now. This man, this man straight up lied to you in the opening. He did an Oliver Stone joke and then was like, we're not gonna do Chaluminati lore, we're not gonna do anything we have to know about it.

You did an Oliver Stone joke, you did a stone green stone joke about Oliver Stone, and then you were like, you don't need to know. Yeah. Anyway, here's eight critical clues about the next eight episodes. I'm going to be writing this year and perhaps beyond. Get ready for this. Also, for some reason, they all start with the letter H, the eighth letter of the alphabet. I don't actually know why it's that yet, but that's exactly what I'd say. Whether I was going to bullshit you, whether I was going to bullshit you or not, that's exactly what I would say, even if it came at the last moment, I don't know, I'm pointing it out right now.

And Jammatria, eight is H, and that means green stone. And the green stone is a bunch of islands beyond the ice wall on our huge flat earth. Fuck. If you wait long enough, if you just keep beating the same drum, it takes on a life of its own. That's all I gotta say. Two guest episodes are next for me. First one, the clue is hidden, and that's gonna be with somebody Jesse and I know very

well. Number two, the clue is heavy weights, and that's gonna be with somebody you've probably been waiting for us to have on the show. Number three, the clue is horse. Number four, the clue is head. Number five, the clue is hello. Number six, the clue is huge. Number seven, the clue is him again. And number eight, the clue is hero.

Anyway, I'm all about a nice clean episode or two here, probably. Again, the number eight, the clue is hero. Anyway, I'm all about a nice clean episode or two here, probably. So let's kick this thing off of real with a quick disclaimer, just like always. John F. Kennedy was a real person and his assassination was a real act of violence. Therefore, we're going to be discussing some seriously disturbing imagery and subject matter throughout the course of this series. This was the high profile murder of a sitting U.S. President. Videos and pictures you Google after listening to this may disturb you, so proceed with caution. It also happens to be one of the most notorious moments of world history and therefore extremely

ingrained into our national culture at all levels. And so sometimes it's easy to forget that it all really happened and I'm sure that at some point during this one, two or all three of us are gonna be flipping about this in ways we haven't been about other murders on the show. So let me apologize for that in advance. Also, please remember that until the very end, I'm gonna be reporting on what other people think

happen that day. If you don't like what you hear, do not shoot the messenger. That is all I am. I'm repeating stuff that I have read. And at least until the end of this whole Maxi series, when I tell you what I really think. And finally, even though I promise I'm gonna try and do this to the best of my ability, I am not an expert. I'm just an internet clown man. That's it. All I am. I do the

the laugh-em-ups on the online. I'm going to make some mistakes, maybe even some egregious mistakes. So again, I'm sorry. Let me apologize for it in advance right now. And now, without further ado, let's get this show on the road. It's time for JFK 2, the Oliver Stone, part one, Kennedy versus the world. I said, we're rewinding to his post-death then. We're kind of going all over the place. A preview. And then we're going to go way back in time. Yeah. So a little while ago now, as I first started researching this topic, I saw that Oliver Stone, the award-winning Hollywood director, had made a follow-up piece to his 1991 movie,

JFK, which released in November of 2021, the 22nd of November to be exact. It's called JFK Revisited Through the Looking Glass. Along with a four-hour long version called JFK Revisited Destiny Betrayed, instead, both of which are largely based on a book called Destiny Betrayed, JFK, Cuba, and the Garrison case by James D. Eugenio. Also, I want to shout out our house researcher, Diana. The first time I've collabed with Diana on a project, so props to her. She was absolutely essential in getting these episodes out there for you.

Also, tell her thanks if you see her around at Diana Wright's Inc online. Do you find her? Quick question. Quick question. Yeah. I'll skip in a head back to when he's dead already. you see around at Deanna writes ink online. Do you find her? Quick question, quick question. Yeah. And I'll skip it ahead back to when he's dead already. Do you think when like the guy doing the autopsy on his body was like alone with the JFK

body, he did like a, almost like a Jeff don't know, kind of like, I'm the person. And just, I'm not a pleasure. Good. You know, hear a little sloshing of the brain up top, you know, just kind of the jaw is just flapping a bit. You know, that was the nicest thing you could have said. I was honestly expecting worse. We'll get there.

Let's, we'll, you know what, don't worry about that right now. I made the disclaimer, it's all fair game now. This book touches on one of the most central theories associated with the JFK assassination, which is only shakily supported and extremely controversial. But also, probably one of the most widely believed theories thanks in large part to the largely inaccurate and fictionalized film JFK itself, which most people believe to be almost as reliable

as a documentary, like or something like that, when it comes to facts about the assassination, and which pretty much single-handedly revived national interest in the idea of a JFK conspiracy. Anyway, put it back in the zeitgeist through this new sort of lens. I mean, also coincidentally, it was around the same time that the Berlin wall came down. So I think maybe people were just kind of thinking about Kennedy, maybe, you know, for that reason too.

People always thinking about Kennedy. RFK is out there right now making people think about Kennedy's even though they don't want to. You're, you know, youknow what? You know what? Speak of the devil. So as much as I personally love this movie and the wild way that it tends to present conflicting information and conflate our archival footage with like newly shot material that they like make it look like archival footage to, which is kind of fucked up if you think about it, but it really gets the core of what it feels like to think about the idea of a JFK assassination conspiracy. And I think that the sort of like,

siop part of that movie, be it intentional or unintentional Mr. Stone's part, has kind of become locked in, like you can't no matter what you do, like the damage is done to serious discourse on the topic with regards to JFK Like this movie was too big of a thing and therefore much like the Jesse Ventura book that we use to take us through the basics of the alleged or speculative lore Surrounding this historical moment even as I went through and disprove things I was saying

I thought it would be a good idea to do this again with JFK revisited as a vessel. JFK the movie JFK revisited, we're going to go through them again as a vessel for taking us through the angle where President John F Kennedy was assassinated by entities within our own intelligence and military agencies related to the president's politics surrounding the global spread of communist governments and possibly even as retaliation for his actions taken at key points during his administration, which I've already lightly touched on and which will get into deeper in a minute. Of course, I'm going to dip around to whatever sources I'm missing as needed to tell a

full clear story of what the vibe was whenever I need to, but you heard me write the first time today, the weird stone that I'm talking about that's mostly just bold face lies is actually Oliver Stone. It's hilarious joke. We've covered it already. I figured that yes, it's unfortunate that so much of the culture around this topic is so heavily intertwined with the movie with so little historical value. And then a little conspiracy theory creeping in here and there might not be such a big deal

in exchange. So I sat down. I watched this movie for like five and a half minutes and literally the first thing that I see on the screen is Robert F. Kennedy Jr. on the screen talking about Bobby Kennedy made a, the first phone call Bobby. He was like the first phone call my dad made after, you know, his brother being shot was he called Langley and he was like, did you conduct this horror? And I'm like, wow, alarm bells are going off larger than I thought. And even in the year and a half or so that this has been out context around RFK junior, especially has already shifted so far from where

it was when he sat down for those interviews to where it is now as him running as a Democrat for president in 2024. That's all right. Well, we know, at least he's letting us all know that COVID was engineered to avoid. Who was it? There's two people. Oscar Najee, Jews and the Chinese is what it was. That's right. Now, man, what, what, what a, what a feat of, of, of viral, virology. He's brave. He's brave. As of a few weeks ago, he was polling between eight and 21 percent, according to the article, the alternative facts of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. by David Remnick at the New Yorker from July 7th. I mean, it's hard to poll somebody this early in the game, right?

So just in case you don't know who RFK Jr. is real quick, he is the son of Bobby Kennedy, JFK's brother, who's his also as attorney general. And after he left office in 1964, Bobby served as a senator for New York from 1965 until his own assassination during his presidential campaign. Right after he won the California primary, he was in Los Angeles, unfortunately, to my shame, my great shame. On June 6, 1968, it's a whole other kind of worms. It's like another totally different Kennedy assassination with all kinds of conspiracy theories. We're not going to get into that today, but anyway, RFK Jr. is that guy's son. He is unbelievably married to Cheryl Hines from

Kerberanthusiasm. And even though he's got all the way to 69 years old as a Kennedy without holding public office, he is a Harvard educated attorney in law professor with a history and conservation and environmental law. But though he's got plenty of Bonafide's, bonafides, bonafides, bonafides, with a little more scrutiny, it is impossible. It is impossible to ignore how dangerously this man wields the same conspiracy theories we've seen a thousand times in much more legitimate venues just because he's like not rude. Like just because he's like not a piece of shit like at talking to people, he gets to like much more legit places and is able to spout conspiracy theories. Here's a quote about him from the New Yorker article for Jesse to read.

And then you can do your own research and you can form whatever opinion about him you want, but personally. Oh, I have opinions. Personally, I don't like the man very much, but that's for you to read, Jesse. If there is a madness, slight or otherwise, in Kennedy's bid, it is not confined to his hubris. He is roiling with conspiracy theories.

SSRI's like Prozac might be the reason for school shootings. Vaccines cause autism. There are many. To prepare for the conversation, I listened to some of Kennedy's podcast sessions with the likes of Barry Weiss, Jordan Peterson, Russell Brand, and Joe Rogan. I watched his marathon announcement speech and tuned into all the- I think they each rent the same brain cell to each other for the, for their shows.

I mean, really, it's the list of those four people is roughly the same show. Yeah, I know show over and over and over again. It's a bummer, dude. I watched his marathon announcement speech and tuned in to all the, all the hazanas he was getting from a peculiar amen corner. A zanna. That includes Steve Bannon, Jack Dorsey, and was getting from a peculiar amen corner. That includes Steve Bannon, Jack Dorsey, and Tucker Carlson. Oh, man.

In his 2021 book, The Real Anthony Fauci, Kennedy accuses Fauci, who was then the nation's top infectious disease doctor of helping to carry out 2020 historic coup d'etat against Western democracy. The book has blurs from Carlson, Nami Wolf, Alan Dershowitz and all of us. What was the reason they like Fauci was bad again? Because he wasn't, he adjusted his use as he learned more things. Um, because Fauci said, get a vaccine. Here's on you note, some portion of this country absolutely believes that the vaccine is killing people,

not just killing people, but if you are around people that have the vaccine, it's shedding virus onto you and then you are getting sick and it's killing you. So people who got the vaccine are now active carriers of basically, it's people who don't understand. So basically it's the same same shit people are saying when the flu vaccine came out. Got it. It's the reason why the measles exists again in Florida. There was, I saw there was a, a few articles that did like a study of the, the deaths, the deaths post vaccine release and, and Florida in particular, like the, they were, when they were looking at statistics and breaking it down via like a, a, a, a democratic, a, democracy lines, it was like the Republicans had taken so many deaths that had affected

their vote moving forward. Right. And that's state because so many people without the vaccines died. The problem is, is that if it isn't someone you know, then you aren't affected. And then a lot of people are so guilty. And I'm going to say, MAGA is a full on cult. They're so guilty at this point. Yeah, that I read an article the other day on Reddit where a guy was saying that his wife was taken to the

ICU she died of COVID and he's like COVID doesn't exist anymore doesn't make any sense and the doctor Were so flippant because he said if I just got in the vaccine my wife would have lived like how dare he he killed my wife And I'm like bro what yeah, dude, so that's where we're at my sister's father-in-law also died from COVID in the hospital as well. And one of his kids is like lost to the, to the like the conspiracy is of QAnon and shit. And it just she could not, it did not. It was something else. The hospital was wrong.

They're, they're lying about what killed him. It wasn't they just, it's like you can't get through to these people even now. If they lose someone like their father, there are some people that are so lost. It's crazy. Yeah. Anyway, I gave you the second half of that. I gave you the second half of the quote there. Kennedy's habits of mind are mega adjacent, but his manner differs from that of his Republican

doppelganger. Donald Trump is a bully, rude, swaggering out to flatten his questioner under an avalanche of lies and volume. Kennedy is not. Rather, he is serenely convinced of his virtue and his interlecuters, yep, look, years of bored, you got it. Kiddifull susceptibility to the conventional wisdom. Thank you, thank you.

The experience of interviewing him and listening to his previous interviews, I found was like setting in for a long train ride with a seemingly amiable stranger in the next seat. You like setting in for a long train ride with a seemingly amiable stranger in the next seat. You ask a straightforward question and an hour later, as you race by 30th Street Station in Philadelphia, he is still going on about the fraud of COVID vaccines and how he was unfairly to platform for spouting conspiracy theories.

Let's be clear. The conspiracy theory he's spouted for decades. He's been to platformed many times because the things he says are like full on, not just conspiracy, but racist shit. Like he said some wacky stuff. It must be hard to only be able to make it onto the Oliver Stone documentary.

Must be hard to not be able to get the word out. And as much my mom had known vaccines caused autism and we could have saved my younger self a whole lot of bullying. That's you think that's what it was? I would have had smallpox, but you know, it would have been autistic. You probably would have died, but like, you know, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I might have died and I might still actually have been autistic anyway, because that's not what causes autism back. Yeah, fucking weird. Yeah, he is, basically, Kennedy is the best way to describe him is he is the Republican version of a Democrat they like. Yeah, yeah, that's the best way to describe it. He's like a mind snatch Democrat. It's like so weird. Is he have any like left or left leaning beliefs in any way? Like, like I said, he's like an extremely like ardent environmentalist. He's, he's, he's super like that's what his career has been. He was like

literally a law professor of environmental law. Like he has actual Bonnefeet. That's what I was saying. But he's just like deep down the rabbit hole of conspiracy to the point where he trusts nothing. He likes it. Yeah. And it gets him attention. And every time a new conspiracy, well, he has he has a, like a circle of Kennedy where he straight up like, says some crazy shit gets put back in the public eye. He's, his crazy shit goes a little bit too far. He's the platform for five, six, seven years. And then another body, he's, yeah, but he's F Kennedy.

Yeah, he's F Kennedy. He's a Kennedy. Uh, but yeah. So I started watching this movie. This, this guy is literally the first guy in the movie talking besides Oliver Stone who's like on camera. Alarm bells go off. It's the guy who said COVID could have been engineered to spare Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese

people. Don't want to go too far into Crazy Town. So for this series, as we move through the CIA, kill JFK timeline Oliver Stone lays out his documentary, I turned to one of the literally biggest books I've ever seen. Reclaiming history, the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, by Los Angeles Deputy DA Vincent Bugliosi, the guy who wrote Helter Skealter and prosecuted Charles Manson, which after 1,632 pages of meticulous research

concludes that Oswald acted alone and that the Warren report is almost completely correct. Now, like I say, without being an expert myself, I can't say for sure which books are quote, more legit than other books, if that even exists anymore with how much of a fucking mess the J. of K assassination is in these 60 years. And admittedly, this book, Reclaiming History, does suffer a bit from the same problem Governor Ventura's book had, which is that it's got this like,

unnecessarily toxic tone, the discourse is like hurtful against his critics, and people who would dare say it's a conspiracy. He's like mean, and he's, and Bougly Oce, he actually seems to like, relish clowning on people, and pretty much anyone he disagrees with. He's like merciless towards.

But as a guy who shares that will win that up proves you right. Right. But as a guy myself who shares his opinion frequently on the internet with large groups of people, I also kind of think maybe that just comes with a territory in this field as no matter what you do. You can never escape. You will always become fucking, you know, hairod, but the fucking night is become Herod. Yeah, so in the interest of playing the devil's advocate here for a second, before I dive all the way into all of her stone and de-uginios timeline,

and I do mean timeline, we're going far back and a lot of it is just American history. Here's an excerpt from an extremely negative review of Bugliosi's book, just to give both sides a chance to be heard here. From the University of Georgia Law Professor Donald E. Wilkes Jr., negative review of Bugliosi's book, just to give both sides a chance to be heard here. From the University of Georgia Law Professor Donald E. Wilkes Jr., writing shortly after the book was released in 2007, I just want to balance it out. You know, if I'm going to make this the counterpoint to Oliver Stone, I just want somebody to say something bad about it.

And that's from Mathis to read. The critics who castigate Bugliosi's book as one-sided, close-minded and ultimately unpersuasive, are wholly justified. Reclaiming history is sesquipitalian, whim-wam. Sesquipitalian, whim-wam. It is bugliotian, Bosch and buncom of broading naggian proportions. It totally fails to re-habitate the board. I'll try it again.

It's buncom. It's buncom. It's bun comb it bun comb it's bun comb of Broding Nodgy in proportions Rob Grumped big nagging it's it's some law professor He's writing like I don't even know like he's using a big word. So he's smart guys writing like a Victorian paleontologist sesquid sesquid padellion, whim wham. Dude is like, is like posting a rebuttal like I did in high school on forums when I use like the thores.com to make myself sound more funny or more advanced. But the phrase Cess quitt padellion whim wham.

I'm using that from now. I don't know what that means. I'm going to use it from now on. Cess quitt padellion. oh my God. Don't worry about it. It totally fails to rehabilitate the Warren Commission's inadequate investigation and its error written report. Instead of a history book, Booglioc has penned an over lengthy partisan harang. In short, Booglioc has done a disservice to the Warren Commission critic, leaving and living and dead who have labored often successfully to broaden our understanding of the JFK assassination into the dead president himself, whose fiendish murderers in part because

of the ineptness of the Warren commission that Bougliosi praises have escaped punishment. Bougliosi writes as if all the basic facts surrounding the assassination are due to his book in the Warren report well established and indubitable, incredibly, however, nearly a half century after the murder that some say recalibrated modern America, many material issues of fact remain unresolved. Alex question, who wrote that specific quote? That was University of Georgia law professor Donald E Wilkes Jr. God rest his soul. E Wilkes Jr. I need to know what he looks like.

His esquipatelli in Whimham Whimham. He looks like comic McCarthy. This is what he looks like in my mind. I haven't. He absolutely does look like a dude who would use every single one of those words. I don't know what is. I don't know what he actually looks like, but in my mind, I'm just imagining a picture of comic McCarthy. It works. Another guy who can rest God rest his soul. All right. So now that we've heard from both sides, we got our wild free wheel in history

that's written by the winners fucking all of our stone jam session going on on one side and we have a bitter fact-based toxic rebuttal on the other side. And we're gonna go through the timeline this new movie presents tied in with the events of the 1991 JFK movie and maybe get some sort of feeling about the notion of a CIA conspiracy in the process, okay? And perhaps this tug of war between truth and gut feeling is precisely the point. In fact, here's a quote to that effect

from Oliver Stone himself for Jesse to read. So this is Jesse doing his best, Ollie Stone. Ollie Stone. I don't know. I'm really calling him. I don't remember what Oliver Stone sound like. I'll be honest. That's okay. I believe the Warren Commission report is a great man. Perfect. And in order to fight a myth, maybe you have to create another one, a counter myth. Maybe you have to create another one, a counter myth. I wanted to use Garrison as a vehicle for a larger perspective, a metaphoric protagonist who would stand in for about a dozen researchers. Filmmakers make mess.

DW Griffith did an in-birth of a nation. In Reds, Warren Beatty probably made John Reed look better than he was, but remain true to the spiritual truth of Reed's life. I knew this would make Erison somewhat better than he was, and in that sense, we'd be making him more of a hero. I knew I would catch a lot of flak for that, but I figured it was worth it to communicate some truth in an area that had been steeped in lies for nearly 30 years. That was like the soul of Oliver Stone speaking.

He sounds like Josh Brolin, but that was his soul. He's also referred to the film as quote, a fragmentation of reality, which I think is a perfect way of thinking about it in contrast to maybe confusing it with anything resembling the truth. But it's true, he never goes far enough in explaining to his audience just how much inventing and conflating he does in this movie. And don't worry, we'll hit a lot of the major things wrong with it before we're done, but unless he's talking in bad faith. In the end, me and him mostly just have the same goal, which is to make you think about something that might not be as settled history as we think it is. That's it. That's all I want you to do. Don't take it too serious. And as we go through, also, don't just

think about the larger idea of whether or not an entity within the government could assassinate the president and get away with it. But also, the smaller boots on the ground story that the movie tells, and which I touched on briefly in episode 160, featuring Kevin Costeur as the real-life day of New Orleans in 1966. Jim Garrison, we just talked about, who also just so happened to be cast in the movie as an overly sinister cameo version of Justice Earl Warren himself, which I thought is like the weirdest thing. Like he cast the real Jim Garrison in that movie as Earl Warren, which I feel like he's like a roast in some way.

I don't know. I don't know. That's weird. That's for sure. He's not in charge. It's like, if you think about it from like a filmmaker's perspective, it's like Warren wrote the truth, but now we're you like now we're following like Garrison's Warren report. You know what I mean?

Sure. It's if you know, if the government did kill JFK, how you know there's like a year at least worth of failed attempts at assassinating him. And I'm very curious how often they got distracted by their own LSD or any other thing that caused them to wander off until eventually they just got it right finally. Yeah, I don't know. I got a lot of brothels were probably created. A lot of sex was probably being had. I don't know why it hasn't even do with killing JFK, but they convinced themselves

that did. Yeah, I think you're right. Like I don't know. Like I'm like trying to think about like what I really think happened and it's so it's every time that I read something basically my mind changes, it's so crazy. Uh, basically Garrison started. Yeah, yeah, basically's just, yeah, I know. I have my theory. I think we talked about it though. Like I think we talked about this last episode. I think, I think what's his face hit him. I don't necessarily know if it's a shot.

I killed him. Yeah, I was well definitely hit him with a bullet, maybe two, whatever, but I think in a panic, maybe there was an accidental fucking shot fired by one of his, by one of his dudes. Cause the night before it was well known. You think one of the secret service guys shot him by accident? Yeah, because the night before the secret service had all been trashed and tired and they were like, not really all there for that day because they were all getting drunk the night before for whatever.

Well, I'll guarantee you that we'll talk more about that. That's my next. I know that's a theory out there. I think you don't believe the grassy knoll or the, the, the magic bullet, do the magic bullet, do that just means want it. That just means wanted is real and I need to start learning to curve bullets. Well, you just have to swing your arms wildly while you shoot. That's what I've seen that movie and I like. Yeah. Which is not the one with that dude that's called like the shit or something

like that. I don't know. What does matter? JFK the movie basically. Yeah JFK the movie. J. Garrison started to look into the JFK assassination because on the day that it went down, an ex FBI agent slash alleged black ops lifer in New Orleans called Guy Bannister pistol whipped his friend who was this strung out guy called Jack Martin over missing files or a phone bill or asking the wrong question at the wrong time or something. And Martin was so pissed off about getting pistol whipped that he had to get back at the

dude and he did that by ratting Guy Bannister out saying that he'd seen him doing stuff off the books for the government with this dude David Ferry, who thinks he might have been connected to the assassination. He says Ferry knew Oswald, from when they were serving in the New Orleans civil air patrol together, and that he drove to Dallas from New Orleans the night of November 21st, and that quote, he was supposed to have been the getaway pilot in the assassination end quote. That's what that's who David Ferry supposedly is. This led all the way up the ladder to a businessman in town called Clay Shopping, arrested and taken to trial three years later, even though he was acquitted

after only an hour or so of deliberation. And during the trial, Garrison actually subpoenaed the subruder film from Life Magazine who owned it at the time. And this ended up being the first time a lot of people got to see this a prudre film, which was on the biggest screen that they ever watched movies on in a movie theater surrounded by their families. Pretty fucking crazy. Uh, but anyway, and they don't shy away from me, they fucking show it. Uh, but anyway,

uh, in the years leading up to the trial, Garrison kicked off a huge investigation that uncovered tons of crazy witnesses and evidence of FBI and CIA intervention and mafia connections, but without getting too far into the weeds now, let's just sink into the history of America with JfK's administration, which at first is pretty cut and dry since it's all fairly verifiable,

global events, and we'll get deeper and deeper as we go. So basically, we're going all the way back to 1955 to start off. The Vietnam War kicks off between the allegedly north. It's an allegedly a war between north and south Vietnam, which in reality functioned as sort of a proxy battle between the Cold War powers of Soviets and Chinese who supported the north and United States and and Chinese who supported the North and United States and their allies who supported the South. It was an extremely complex political situation involving factions in both countries fighting

against each other. Until eventually the United States was dragged into direct involvement that lasted all the way until 1973. It's a pretty long fucking conflict. However, during the era of Kennedy's administration, which began in 1961, which was already six years into the war, though we had not yet escalated to participating in the ground war ourselves, the dominoes were already falling. Americans felt the threat of communism at the gates, and though we started with only around

a thousand advisors in the country in 1959, by the time of the Kennedy assassination in 1964, I'm sorry, in 1963, we had already increased that amount by over 20 times. I mean, this is interesting too, because this does have a very light crossover with MK Ultra in that. We're now, you know, the government information machine, CIA, what was it, OSS prior now exists, and they're hunting for a new enemy. They want somebody to be their enemy so they can do more shit, make more things to do. They want a reason to exist.

And in their minds, I think especially at this time, there's still like heroes in their own mind, you know, protecting America from threats that are happening. Yeah. And they're still like heroes in their own mind, you know, protecting America from threats that are happening. So the going again, when again, Kennedy was directly going against these people at the time. And these people had already seeped their fucking claws and tentacles into the government to a point where it was it acts on its own. And it's still very much probably does. Yeah, that's pretty much like divide today.

Yeah. OSS goes to MK Ultra. They eventually become the CIA and now we move into the 60s with with Kennedy and they're trying to do their thing. And yeah, it's it's all tied together. That's true. At the same time, in Cuba, 1959, same time as Vietnam, in Cuba, 1959, after the US government withdrew military support from general Batista. Cuban revolutionary Fidel Castro quickly made his way to Havana, gain control of the country, slowly became a very scary figure for the United States, as they realized how hard he would be to control and how aligned with global communist interests he

might turn out to be. So that's already a big problem for us in terms of the Cold War. In June of that year, when Castro starts to put his systematic land reform laws into effect, which is like him nationalizing like private businesses in Cuba, like American sugar plantations and stuff like that, it cuts into the profits of American big business and in the sense of like big clubs and entertainment areas, also organized crime interests in America were being affected by this systematic land reform laws that Castro was doing.

And pretty soon, some very rich people are petitioning for the White House to oust him from leadership altogether. At the time, Dwight Eisenhower was still president, and in response, he signs off on something called a program of covert action against the Castro regime Literally the only piece of paper work paperwork issue during the whole project That he signed which is so freaking crazy to me Everything else was like kind of off the books which allowed the CIA to create a program staffed largely by Cuban exiles To work against the political influence of Castro and his regime through various lines of attacks such as propaganda dissemination and intelligence gathering network of within

Cuba itself and even a small paramilitary force that would secretly enter the country and train and lead anti-Castro resistance groups. And it was allowed to spend millions of 1960s dollars on all of this in total secrecy isolated from other parts of the government in order to maintain plausible deniability about the actions of this group just in case things ever happen to go south. This was the time when they were trying things like we heard about in the dirty tricks department book that we went over like giving Castro a box of exploding cigars or lining his shoes with a thalium salts to make his beard fall out. The beard was the source of his powers. To like, to like discredit him, right? Yeah, I know it was the to remove his like, manly myths.

He was getting a lot of power from like appearing on TV and giving speeches. So, you know, it's like making him look foolish was like a plan. But the CIA also spent a bunch of money funneled through legit seeming business fronts to buy a bunch of real estate all over America and South America for various reasons, pertaining to this operation, safe houses, operations bases, all kinds of things. They set up a main base of operations in Miami by the end of May.

This went on for months until Kennedy won the election and he was sworn in in January of 1961. However, at the same time, if we were one the clock back again to 1960, and head over to Africa, where the Republic of the Congo had just won its independence from Belgian colonial rule at the Congolese Roundtable Conference in Brussels in January of 1960, largely thanks to the political leadership of Congolese National Movement Leader Patrice Lamumba, with the independent state set for June 30th of that year, just six months later, with elections to be held in late May. That's how they were going to do it.

However, just before that was going to happen, the Congo crisis broke out, thanks to a mutiny within the Congolese army. And though Lamumba came to us for assistance at the time, Belgium and France and the rest of Europe who are allies had us convinced that these guys were like anti-white communists. Lamont most people were. So when they turned to the Soviets for help instead, the deal was sealed and we were like out on Lamontba. The government in Congo was actually split in a deadlock between Lamontba and this newly elected Congolese president they had elections for, Joseph Kasa Vubu. So that's like an impasse, like actually deadlocked

because Lamamba was like this hero. And this was very annoying to both President Eisenhower and his head of the CIA, Alan Dulles, because right in the middle of an NSC, we know this because right in the middle of an NSC meeting, National Security Council meeting, Eisenhower quote, just blurted out to everybody in order to kill, not to anybody in particular, but blurted out to everybody assembled there to kill a mumba.

Because they wanted this regime change to happen and the mumba was like stuck in their craw because kinda cause I feel like maybe he was a little and they were a little bit embarrassed that they didn't help him in the first place. Like I don't know, but it's like, you know, it was like a catch-22, they were in like's like, you know, it was like a catch 22. They were in like a political, you know, not a win-win, like a lose-lose.

Right. Seeing no other option and a chance for his own uncontested leadership of the area, basically what ended up happening was that Lamumba's chief military aid, Joseph Desiree Mobutu, with the support of the US and Belgium, deposed Lamumba in late 1960 and installed his own government in his place. So that basically Lamumba is like military guy. I was like, fuck this. I'm just gonna take it over.

You guys are both out. I'm Mabutu now and Mabutu, if you know, is Mabutu, right? That's like a big, he's like a, he was, he was a dictator for a while over there. Meanwhile, Kennedy is elected in November, gets into the White House and steps right into the middle of this when UN Secretary General Dag Hammar skilled, calls him to let him know Lamumba's been imprisoned

and that he should intercede, which Kennedy tries to do since he had no idea any kill order on Lamumba had ever been given by Eisenhower and wants to distance the United States from such like brutal, bloody, western-centric policy decisions. But in January of 1961, just 48 hours before Kennedy is sworn into office, allegedly under advisement from Delas' CIA and directly in the face of Kennedy's wishes, the Mamba is handed over to his enemies and shot in the head and thrown in a shallow grave,

and Kennedy doesn't even find out for a month until Adelaide Stevenson tells him about it, which is pretty crazy. Yeah, that's wild. So if anything, this intensifies Kennedy's resolve to help win the Congo their independence, and he decides to back the Secretary-General of the UN, Hammer Skilled, in his efforts to maintain unity

and broker some kind of peace treaty between the two sides, kind ofilled, in his efforts to maintain unity and broker some kind of peace treaty between the two sides, kind of because he feels beholden to it now because he kind of, he sees, he takes, he feels responsible for the mumble and he's kind of, I would say, probably pissed off about it. So now, as we enter 1961 proper with Kennedy and the White House, oddly, this is probably the most important year to this theory of the Kennedy assassination, even though it's two years before the assassination took place. We have a communist proxy war activity thing going on on three separate fronts, a dissenting and concerningly autocratic CIA head in Delus. And the worst part for Kennedy is that he's stepping in right before a bunch of things happen

that he doesn't really want to happen and are really starting to happen. Like he's just, he jumps into like some real shit. Like probably the most like notorious shit that America was in for like 20 or 30 years after this. If you want to learn about jealous and how his rise goes into the MK Ultra series, that's a huge portion of that four-parter is Dulles' rise. He's like a villain from Chaluminate coming back in the end game movie. Yeah, no, this is all gonna culminate to end game,

which is our own nuclear annihilation. Yeah, just in real life, yeah. Cool, right. So cool. Yeah. Jumping back over to Cuba though, Eisenhower's anti-castro Cuba project has escalated into a total US embargo of the island at this point.

And ever since Castro reached out to the Soviets for help, it also included a complete severing of all diplomatic relations. The Cuban Democratic Revolutionary Front, which was made up of exiled anti-Castro Cubans, evolved into the CIA funded 1400 man, five infantry battalion and one paratrooper battalion, Brigade known as Brigade, 2506, which also included a training team made of 60 members of the Alabama Air National Guard, who taught them at a fight where they were posted in Guatemala. So that was going on.

They were, America was training anti-castro Cubans to fight Castro in Guatemala. That really happened. Sounds like Metal Gear Solid, but it's true. As JFK waited into this Eisen Hour Aero Battle Plan, which culminated into a planned large-scale US-supported military invasion of Cuban soil in April of 1961, he was already apprehensive and dragging his

feet about it. As again, the move ran directly counter to where he wanted to be with regard to US foreign policy, especially the way he wanted to deal with the Soviet Union and their allies going forward because he thought the only thing that's going to come from like aggression aggression aggression is that the world's gonna blow up, right? And we're not pretty close. We'll talk about that in a minute. Yeah, still pretty close right now. Yeah. I don't really need to get into the specifics of the failed Bay of Pigs invasion as it's imp impregnatorious moment in history.

And there's certainly much better sources out there for like a comprehensive look at it than this one. But on April 15th, 1961, the CIA sent eight bombers to attack Cuban airfields. They were flown by X Cubans. Grounding the enemy air cover. And then on April 17th, it's all like I said, it's like this weird thing where they didn't send American planes, but they like were American planes

so that they could like plausibly deny it if they needed to, but they took out a bunch of the Cuban planes. And then on April 17th, two days later, brigade 2506 launched from South American ports to land in the Bay of Pigs at Plymouth, Giron. Almost from jump, Castro takes over the response, reacted very aggressively, and very quickly a Brigade 2506 started to lose their advantage. Kennedy, who already had one foot out the door on the plan, was not willing to get directly involved any further, decides as he sees that the thing is not going to work out in his favor, decides to withhold any further air support, which leaves 2506 out there on the beach with their asses in the

wind, with a force of like a numbers below what the CIA analysts deemed necessary for successful operation. And by the 20th, they're completely defeated and captured and it forces and bunch of them are killed and it forces Kennedy to negotiate for the 1113 surviving prisoners taken to the tune of $53 million in food and medicine. So egg on everybody's face. This not only left Kennedy pissed and embarrassed, but also dullis was pissed because now everybody's blaming the CIA for the blunder to the point that he even wrote an article for Harper's Dulles did about this called my answer to the Bay of Pigs. But out of a sense of duty, he decided at the last moment, never to publish it, even though the final draft was fully complete

and now lies filed in the Alan W. Dulles papers at Princeton in New Jersey. I haven't been able to access the papers, but there's a rather thorough article about them in the fall 1984 issue of diplomatic history by US Foreign Relations Officer and Foreign Policy Specialist Lucien S. Vandenbruck, which Mathis is going to read for us right now. I'm going to put a little quote there for you in the quote box, Bing. According to this draft, then, it is simply untrue that the Cuban venture failed because the intelligence advisor misled Kennedy into approving an ill-conceived plan. Instead, the real cause of the disaster was the White House's lack of determination to

succeed, fearing some unpleasant political repercussion from the invasion. Oh, okay. Dulles explained. Oh, yeah, okay. You know what? You're right, Dulles. They probably wasn't gay. It's very smart.

The president consistently strove to reduce the visibility of the undertaking. Therefore, rather than authorize whatever effort was required to succeed, Kennedy whittled away the scale of military operations in the unfathomably weakening and otherwise sound plan. And a god, Dallas, ever the shite eater. And according to the Monday, April 22nd, 1966 edition of the New York Times, which was like a, like a, you know, like a think piece that they published a couple years after the fact on the history of the CIA's worst moments and argued about whether we even need a CIA in the first place. The bad vibes went both ways.

And here's a quote from, from, from that for Jesse to read right now. I'm going to put that in the chat for you. And President Kennedy has the enormity of the Bay of Pigs's Asser, came home to him, said to one of his highest officials of his administration that he wanted to splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds. Of course, he didn't do that and really just kind of tighten their leash a little bit.

But whether anyone knew it or not, Dulles' days were numbered. But then we have this little nugget of insanity that pops up when the very next day, after the Bay of Pigs defeat, literally the very next day, in the midst of the Algerian war, four retired French army generals attempted a failed coup d'état against then-current French president, Charles de Gaulle, to keep French and by extension, Western interests from withdrawing from French Algeria. Right?

This failure was largely attributed to a speech De Gaulle gave dress to his old World War II outfit that went out on both television and radio and supposedly reached enough soldiers that the coup d'état just like lost support. Like, it was called like the transistor rebellion or something just like lost support. Like it was called like the transistor rebellion or something like that. I forget what it was called, but it was like he got he was like so out there with his speech and like so inspiring and it

reached so many people with this new technology that it actually like motivated the army to turn on the generals. But interestingly, however, just as the generals had made their big push in Algeria, because this was, took a couple days for this to go down. There was an article in the Italian newspaper Il Paise, I think that's how you pronounce it, was already reporting that, quote, it's not by chance that some people in Paris are accusing the American secret service headed by Alan Dulles of having participated in the plot of the four ultra generals.

And that's actually a quote from the newspaper that week. And by the next day, a Russian broadsheet called Pravda was already adding NATO and the Pentagon and the CIA into the mix, and that the rumor had come straight from the L.E.Z. Palace, which is like the French White House basically. And then this story gets picked up by the French paper Le Monde, which ran a front page story about the CIA going rogue against Kennedy's wishes. And it got so wild and out of hand with the reaction that the White House literally had to call and reassure De Gaulle that it wasn't true. You know, they had to be like, dude, I don't know where they're getting this from.

Oh, well, what year was the generals in France? This? Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, when they tried to tried to overthrow to go what year was that? That was nine that was literally days It was like the next day after the Bay of pigs 19 April 1961 interesting. Okay. Sorry. I was trying to figure out what this relation to the movie Battle of Algiers was but I think that's later in the 60s So it's not 61 for sure. I'm not super

Familiar with the Algerian war. I just know that this, this event happens like a failed coup in the mist. The movie Battle of the Gears is like a very famous black and white film. It is what literally caused like massive consternation in France about the treatment of Algerians and stuff. But I think it came out in either 67 or 66 or 68 something like that. So it is not related at all. So I was just was curious. That's all. Yeah.

I mean, I think the war last, I think it could be the same war. But it was basically like the White House had to call the Galby like this was not us. I don't know where where where that came from, but it became fairly clear later that that first paper, the Italian one, Il Piaissé, it was actually a common source for Soviet planted disinformation stories. And this is probably one of those stories. According to a November 22, 2021 article from Rolling Stone, same day as the new Oliver Stone documentary came out, an article from Rolling Stone called, this is where Oliver

Stone got his loony JFK conspiracies from just like the cia the k gb would pay off certain editors and journalists and wage mental warfare for the kremlin in the pages of newspapers magazines all over the world and they did they did this so often and so like intentionally that there was actually like department d like a director it that was specifically made to undermine united states influence on the world stage in the media. So I only mention this now in so much detail because six years later in 1967, a story from the same paper fingered Clay Shaw as a CIA money laundrer for operations in Rome.

That story gets picked up by the National Guardian, which is like a new left paper in New York on March 18th, 1967. Jim Garrison sees this, and that's probably the thing that set him on Clay Shaw in the first place, which eventually ended up creating all of her stones JFK movie 25 years later, is like one single piece of misinformation

from the KGB in a fucking Italian newspaper, which is just nuts. As much as we're saying, Dulles did all this like insidious shit. He actually did not try to assassinate Childe Gaulle probably. And a lot of places, including his Wikipedia article, say that he did, which is to this day, which is wild. However, that doesn't mean that a few months later, Dulles did not help assassinate the sitting secretary general of the United Nations.

Our old pal, Dag Hammerskild, from the Lamumba affair who took Kennedy's side in the interest of peace, which if you remember, is still happening right now at pretty much the exact same time as all the rest of this is on the other side of the world, which, you know, when they say the president's hair goes gray really fast, this is what? Yeah, this is why happening. Yeah. September 8, 1961, Hammer's Guild was on a mission from the Congo to British-controlled Northern Rhodesia, which I think becomes Zambia at some point, to broker a peace treaty.

He's on this sort of mission to broker peace. Uh, when his Douglas DC six B, Albertina crashed on approach to the Indola airfield killing 15, including the secretary general, though strangely, the first you went official to identify his body, claimed he had a bullet hole in his head. And many witnesses saw the plane go down in flames as if it had been brought down by weapons on the ground. So there had always been rumors, even from the beginning, and it's not exactly clear how much Kennedy may have been aware of it or not.

But according to a 2016, I don't think that he would have been in favor of killing this man. Let me just put it that way. He was working with him directly to like broker peace at this time. So I don't think he wanted this to happen. But according to a 2016 article on foreign policy.com by column Lynch, in 1998, the South African National Intelligence Agency produced documents accidentally discovered during the investigation of a totally different political assassination, which was against

Chris Haney of the South African Communist Party, which detailed something called Operation Celeste with the, quote, trouble some hammer skilled as the target in a mission involving cooperation from British intelligence MI5 and Dulles of CIA to place six pounds of TNT in the wheel well of the plane as well as several backup plans. And suspiciously, it was also confirmed that the CIA was listening in on all air traffic, like radio chatter in the area that night confirmed. I mean, that doesn't surprise me at all, especially with the list in charge. Yeah. And then also in October of 2017, a new UN mandated report had this to say about the incident,

which seems to actually lend some credence to the idea of rogue CIA hits, CIA hits being carried out without the president's knowledge. And Mathis is going to read that for us. Let's do it right now. There is a significant amount of evidence from eye witnesses that they observed more than one aircraft in the air that the other aircraft may have been a jet that S E B D Y was on fire before it crashed and or that S E B D Y was fired upon or otherwise actively engaged by another aircraft. It appears plausible that an external attack or threat may have been a cause of the crash, whether by way of a direct attack causing SEBDY to crash or by causing a momentary distraction of the pilots. Such a distraction need only have taken away the pilot's attention for a matter of

seconds at the critical point at which they were in their descent that have been potentially fatal. Yeah. And can you imagine having to deal with all this shit while also having to figure out the fucking Vietnam War where you're also constantly- And then having to go meet aliens to sign like decrees between the two of your people. Yeah, we'll get into that. We'll get into that in a later episode maybe. But you're also being pressured to send in troops.

You're being pressured to get more involved than you want. You kind of have to do that now because you're already in there because of something that wasn't your choice. So it's all just like happening and you're the president and it's 1960 and it sucks. And honestly, I guess now is good enough of a time as any to ask the question, right?

Like, what do you boys think? Like, if you're Kennedy, do you hate the CIA right now? And if you're the CIA right now, do you hate Kennedy? Oh, they hate it, Kennedy. Oh, I, of course, the CIA. Like, if it's you, like, are you like, are you seeing this from both sides? Do you feel like one of these guys

is the clear idiot here? Like, I don't know. Well, I mean, I mean, I can see that the CIA hated Kennedy, but it doesn't mean that they were right in it. You know, like, Kennedy was right in trying to push back and control something that was clearly way out of control. And they didn't like it. It's like, Kennedy, like, yeah, like, I don't know.

I always think about Kennedy as like, the Mandela effect moment for this universe where like, we could have ended up with a, what could have been, we could have ended up with a much more like harmonious government that was kind of like low key and kind of chill in the way that we do diplomacy and kind of been not so aggressive. But there was, you couldn't have been that way at the time though, right? No, nuclear proliferation already happening. Yeah, it wasn't just, you know, Vietnam, it was exactly

like Cuba. And then in the North Sea, subs almost blown each other up and like multiple, almost missile launches. Exactly. Constant, like this is the time period. People were like, yo, let's hide under desks because we could be nuked. And like it was, I can understand why, because Kennedy was, he had a different attitude when it came to American domestic policy.

Yeah. And I think that pissed off a lot of people, but they all had to work together in dealing with overseas threats. And the thing is, is again, going back to what you were saying about the Bay of Pigs and whatever, he had to think about domestic stuff because he's still president and he's trying to like- Yes, to make the American people happy, yeah. Yeah, he can't like launch a full-scale crazy invasion on Cuba. It wouldn't, it wouldn't, they're already at war.

The American public wouldn't have it. So he had to, you know, kind of figure out something and clearly he chose poorly, right? Wasn't a good plan. Yeah, exactly. It's like, it's like people today on Twitter, but he was limited. It's people today on Twitter, like, criticizing Biden. They're like, why doesn't he just throw all the, like, senators that are like insurrectionists in jail?

Why doesn't he just do that? And it's like, you can't just like start from like a single piece of information and then like act in a vacuum as if none of the other systems and realities that are happening in all these plates that you're spinning at once are all happening. And I think that's part of the reason presidents that are good still face criticism all the time is because you can't satisfy everybody every moment and people that you're trying to satisfy don't have the knowledge that you have as the leader

of all the different problems happening at once. And that's kind of why I did the episode this way is because it kind of structures it in that way where you kind of have to think of it from his point of view. Yeah, just like let it play out as like, okay, you're Kennedy and you wanna get rid of Castro. Okay, what are our options? Well, I say we invade. Like, okay, so you're

invading an ally of Russia and you're only escalating the war further. We're already in Northern one war. Now we're sending our troops into a small island nation that is allied with a much the CIA is like out for blood. Yeah, there's absolutely no way that would fly. And in particular, I mean, the cold again, MK Ultra to hear there was the cold war in between, they have not stopped treating and thinking Russia as an enemy to the point where like they're trying to cut their balls off at any given opportunity. No, no matter the global politics involved. I mean, because to the CIA and to a lot of us, Russia, they see us as an enemy. We are, we are, again, it comes down to not just government,

but also like models for business and life and like, it is, I always think about that. It's crazy that we are so diametrically opposed that, you know, it is consistent even when communism fell. It was, they didn't, well, now we're part of the capitalist world and we're democracy. Like, no, that's, Russia's just never bit, they've had strong men run the show forever. And yeah, I don't know, man, I wish it could change. Everybody's country has their own version of propagandizing as well.

Like it's built into culture a little bit. I mean, America's very similar. We're all, we're all like the mega consumer right now. We're founding fathers are literally deities here. Drunk, yeah, that's not the deities. They, they, oh, 100%. They're not seen as human at all. Not for the reality of they came up with a government idea while the drunk at a bar

somewhere like, I've been to that bar. I sat in the table where Ben Franklin sat. Yeah. came up with a government idea while the drunk at a bar somewhere like, I've been to the bar. I sat in the table. We're Ben Franklin set. Yeah. It's not a, it's not a heavenly, yes, not a heavenly palace. It's just a, it's just a pub. I know this sounds weird, but if it goes into the chupa, not the derzy devil episode,

and that'll, that'll humanize Franklin for you real fucking quail. Yeah, the humanize Franklin for you. The troise magnificent role. I always wonder what people think to like from the outside, like, uh, in countries that aren't, uh, the United States and Russia and stuff like that. Like, yeah, I, I, I, especially like the people that are like in Eastern Europe, who kind of like maybe have a foot in both cultures a little bit more. Like, I'm very interested in what you think.

Like, I'm American. I have one way that I think about the CIA and you know I have a different opinion than a lot of Americans about the CIA and then I have an opinion of the KGB, right? and I know that the KGB are like bad dudes, you know what I mean like I know that's what they want you to think about them too And I know that they don't try not to be that But I also know as a reader of books that the CIA is very much the same beast as the KGB. And I always wonder what who people see as the scarier one. I have a feeling it's us. I have a, I have a, I have a suspicion that people with no, with no, with no skin in

the game think we're the, we're the baddies. I feel like that might be true, but not because of the realities of our world, but America is good at producing entertainment and producing like a message that can go across the world and CIA being this overpowerful like monster machine is something that we're very good at making sure everybody believed, even when it wasn't quite that yet. Well, let's put it this way. I'm sure there's a lot of people out there that think we're the baddies. And I, and it's worth, And it's worth keeping in mind.

It's worth keeping in mind. America has done heinous shit. Yeah. Like, we've cashed in and all the good will we earn from WW2, but the thing is, is we're just, we're an empire. Right. We're the empire with the biggest dick in the most military. And through the Ukraine, like proxy war that we're having with, you know, Russia essentially, we're able to be like, look at all of our toys. And by the way, these are

last generation toys. And just like, we just get to, that's why we are as safe as we are because we fucking, we flex so hard it's nothing can come at us right now. Rome was very similar. They eventually fell though. But also, I think the reason why people just like us is we use that, Mike's indiscriminately sometimes where, you know, there's not many nations that can fly a drone halfway across the world and target a person individually. Like, you know, that's, it's hard to be like, they're the good guys, you know. That's how we've been since we dropped the new, like once we had nuclear, the nuclear

bomb and we bombed the first time even without giving them enough warning. We're the only people to ever use one. We all 100%. We were we had the opportunity to basically take the nuclear weapon that we have and use it as more of a soft power like not drop it. Use it as just like, let's just not do this shit. Let's like not give it instead. That's true man. They decided fear was the right way to go. And so not only did they, when they bombed here, Ashima, it was like, what, 48 hours, under 72 hours later, they fucking hit Nagasaki because they, between them, they all got around the table. We're like, what do we nuke next? What do we nuke next? And they didn't even fucking tell the president. Thank come on, man. No spoilers. No spoilers for Oppenheimer. Come on.

That's just history. That's just history. No, come on, come on. No spoilers. Come on, come on. Come on. Come on. I didn't see Oppenheimer. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. No, no. Come on. The thing is like they would rather no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Wallace at this time were lowered on all fronts. He was viewed as somebody who messed up big a few times. And he was made to resign on November 29, 1961, just one day after being awarded the National Security Medal and he was replaced by John McCone. Now, Craig me from a wrong, Dulles still stayed within government and he moved somewhere else.

He stayed within government and then shortly within a year he got appointed to the Warren commission, which is crazy. That's the thing. The man didn't really lose his power. He just kind of fell out of the limelight, but still had a lot of contacts. Well, he wasn't the boss of the CIA and we'll get into that. Here's another quote actually from the New York Times for Jesse to read about what happened next to the CIA right here. Following a rigorous inquiry into the agencies affairs, methods, and problems, Kennedy did not splinter it after all and did not recommend congressional supervision. Instead, President Kennedy transferred the CIA to the Department of Defense under the close supervision and control of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, which would also report on CIA

plans and operations to the president. So it's not that he didn't want the CIA, it's that he didn't want the CIA out of his control pretty much. Because sure enough, one day later, a new candy era version of the Cuban project, now called Operation Mungoos, was officially authorized on November 30, 1961. Literally the day after Dulles was dismissed.

This unleashed a stream of small annoying acts of terrorism, espionage, and weaponized propaganda against the Castro regime that carried on unabated for almost a full year, with the eventual goal of discovering or provoking some sort of justifiable pretense for direct military intervention in Cuba by US military forces. But this time with the whole Western world like with us like like a way that we we we get to do it and everybody thinks we're doing something for the good of the world. Some of the plans for this early in 1962 included Operation Bingo, which was a false flag attack on US facilities at Quentonimo Bay, Operation Dirty Trick, which maybe was where the name of that book came from, I don't know.

Operation Dirty Trick, where we blamed communists and Cuba if John Glenn's mercury flight accidentally ended up crashing and just saying, oh, the communists did this. And perhaps most famously, something called Operation Northwoods, in which CIA operatives would stage and commit terrorist acts against both military and civilian targets, including on American soil, and then blame them on the Cuban government. This is why people believe crazy, and Cuban on this stuff right here. Yeah. Following the proposal of Operation North Woods, Kennedy actually removed General Limnitzer

as his chairman of the Joint Chief Staff because he was so like wilded out by that. And as a result, Kennedy started to lose popularity in the military at this time, big time, with the general thinking being that he was being soft on Cuba now. Though he continued Operation Mongoose activities on Cuban soil unabated for months, literally Castro was like asking him to stop and he was like, no, I'm not going to stop. Until fall of that year, when an increased Soviet presence on the island

started to put him off, especially because it wasn't clear at first what they were doing there, until of course, October 14th, 1962, when a U2 spy plane finds that Soviet nuclear sites have been built in Cuba, likely as a direct threat to United States operations in the regions and as sort of like a check for political action by the United States.

It was blasting beautiful day as it was flying across. Yeah. Don't do that. Don't do that. No. He was like, it's already on your phone. All right. This kicked off something.

This kicked off something called the Cuban missile crisis. I've heard about this. It's weird. Yeah. That's not familiar. I was fake news, dude. JFK juniors coming back tomorrow and he'll tell you how I'm up. Fake news it was. The closest we've been to global nuclear war since the bomb was created was the Cuban missile crisis. And since and since that we know of. I don't I don't have it here in front of me right now, but the since the bomb was created was the Cuban Missile Crisis. And since, and since that we know of, I don't, I don't have it here in front of me right now, but the story goes that like,

we dropped death charges on a submarine, not knowing that that submarine had a new conboard. And the submarine had to come out of the water because they were running out of air. And like like one guy who like didn't lose his cool is the only reason why we didn't like go to nuclear war. That's wild. Isn't that crazy?

Anyway, that came out like years later. Anyway, I don't want to think about that too much. Kennedy did not want to attack the US. The National Security Council wanted him to just like not say anything, not do anything, and just like one night just like blow up all the news. Like that's that was like their plan, but Kennedy kind of saw that as quote, Pearl Harbor in reverse. So about a week later on October 22nd, he announced that there was going to be a naval quarantine around Cuba and said that any Soviet ship in the area would be subject to search, one ship ended up being searched this whole time. And after it

and extremely tense, two weeks stand off with a lot of posturing and a lot of rejecting of proposals on both sides, where people were literally going insane in the streets and going to sleep at night, wondering if the whole world was going to blow up while they were unconscious. at night wondering if the whole world was going to blow up while they were unconscious. Finally, on October 28th, 1962, Khrushchev agreed to dismantle the sites in Cuba in exchange for the U.S. promising never to invade Cuba and to remove, and that was the public promise. And then privately also asked them to remove some missile sites in, I think, Italy and Turkey that were like close to Russia, right? And though Kennedy's approval rating with the American people at this time was skyrocketing

to like 77% or something like that, his tendency to constantly seek diplomatic solutions to situations where we might have once used military might, under other leaders, was slowly fraying his relationship, not just with the military itself, but the entire industrial complex supporting it whose money and profits are tied to producing weapons and equipment for war. We started to become a real point of contention with regard to the Vietnam War, which by the way has still fully been happening this entire time. In 1961, again, going back to 1961, the Vietnam War, Kennedy authorized the Strategic Hamlet Program in South Vietnam, which was rolled out early the following year in a bid to relocate many rural

South Vietnamese into these kind of like shiny new communities to ingratiate them to the central government a bit, isolate them from the communist insurgents a bit, kind of just do what Kennedy kind of saw that needed to happen, which is that. Also, can I just put this out there? We shouldn't be telling other countries what kind of government they should have, just saying, as a matter of fact, Kennedy or what? All this is wrong. Like I say, this is not our place to put governments in power that the people of the country do not

want. We all agree. And I think that if Kennedy could have done this over, he probably wouldn't have even gotten involved at all, right? But potentially. That's one of those things, no matter what president takes the action, it's just, it's my opinion, not something that we should ever be meddling in. 100%. We pulled out of Afghanistan, they just went back to the government thing. The biggest problem though is just went, they went back to the government. They wanted the biggest problem, though, is that and this goes back to the problems with Kennedy. That the biggest problem is that if you do nothing, you risk making the world a more dangerous place for Americans. And as a president, your job

is to protect America and its citizens. So by letting another country, that was literally the whole Cold War in a nutshell. Yeah. But every time we are record of succeeding is God. Oh, no, we sometimes make terrible way more. So we have a body of evidence that now we can at least say, but this isn't the right way to do things. But we also have evidence that if we don't interfere, it can bite us in the ass as well. The lot of the, a lot of the past is us being, you know, there's a large period of American history where we were non like we didn't want to mess with the world. We were like we are isolationist,

we're going to do our own thing and the world went insane. So there's something where we, it's you're, I mean, look, it is a problem. It's a major problem. There's no clean answer either. Yeah, yeah. I'm not a politician. It's just like for me, it's like, okay, so how about, you know, why don't we like bolster our allies instead of trying to constantly cut the balls off, like by invading illegally. Don't ignore them, but just don't go in there and forcibly replace their government. Watch them. Be careful. I think the way to consider this is that I don't think the US really gave gives two shits about what type of government South Vietnam has, right? That's not the, gave gives two shits about what type of government South Vietnam has, right? That's not the, the, the, the problem is that it, it's all about Russia and China.

Yeah. No, it doesn't matter as long as they're with them. And so what we're, the reason that we're there is not because we want South Vietnam to have a democracy. They already had one. You know what I mean? It's just that the, the, the communists there are allowing those interests to expand. We'll get into that a little bit too. Literally right now actually, because basically, so this program happened where they're trying to isolate the people

in the central government who are in rural areas from the communist insurgents, but that project slowly waned because the conflict itself between North and South Vietnam escalated. And by the time he signs the national security memorandum, authorizing the use of agent orange and foliage and combat, Kennedy's feeling trapped in a catch 22 by the influence of communist powers in Southeast Asia as a whole, because it's not just Vietnam, right?

It's other countries too. And here's two quotes from him at a press conference. And later at a dinner, both on April 24th, 1963 that I got from President Kennedy, profile of power by Richard Reeves and stitched together here for Memphis to re-for us. Yeah. Before I read that too, for those who don't know what agent orange is, it's a cane is poison. It's a dioxin. And that enters your body and immediately begins damaging or destroying vital organ cells, your immune system and your hormones. Never should have been used.

Never ever. And Agent Orange was so extremely deadly. And we sprayed 20 times more than the manufacturer ever recommended. Yeah. Just like good times. Just to add to that, my dad was in Vietnam. And one of his major concerns for me growing up was he was like, yo, I'm terrified that that affected you in some way. So he got all sorts of like tests and stuff done just to be sure when I was a kid. So like, that's why your hair is orange, I guess. That's probably what happened. You are orange.

You are quite orange. You are orange hair. And you got humor. It was the, the, the, the chemical combination for, oh my god. You are orange. You are quite orange hair and you got humor. It was the, the, the chemical combination for my God. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Give me a third testicle, but like, you know, Hey, love, you know, ladies love that. Third testicles, Joe Christ. Yeah. Right, right, right. All right. Here's this quote from Kennedy. If Lao fell into communist hands, it would, it would increase the danger along the northern

borders of Thailand. It would put additional pressure on Cambodia, and it would put additional pressure on Vietnam, which in itself would put additional pressure on Malaya. Malaya, there's Malaya. So I do accept the view that there is an interrelationship in these countries, but we don't have a prayer of staying in Vietnam. Those people hate us. They are going to throw our asses out of there at any point,

but I can't give up that territory to the communists and get the American people to reelect me. And sure enough, he's kind of right. By August, as the South Vietnamese president damn and his brother become more and more dictator-y, using like US trained soldiers like take out like Buddhist protesters and shit like that. And yet another US-supported coup attempt was discussed with the goal of getting the president and his brother to step down and leave the country, Kennedy was beginning to agree with the anti-war sentiment that was rising back home in America. Defense Secretary MacDamerra and General Maxwell Detailer were sent in to try and get President D.M. under control one last time, and when they returned

with the message that not only was he unwilling to cooperate, but that their military forces were actually doing much worse than we first thought in winning back the countryside, Kennedy insisted a recommendation be added to their mission report, suggesting a withdrawal schedule saying they would pull out 1,000 troops by the end of the year, headed towards a complete withdrawal of all 16,000 by 1965. And even then the National Security Council was calling it a quote strategic fantasy. So more, more headbutting between the military and Kennedy. But by then the coup was already underway in Vietnam and to Kennedy's horror,

But by then, the coup was already underway in Vietnam, and to Kennedy's horror, not only did the South Vietnamese generals overthrow the government, they also arrested and executed the president and his brother. National Security Advisor Mick George Bundy drafted a memo encouraging Kennedy to keep fighting communism in Vietnam with increased military and economic aid. But just before he left for Dallas, uh, speaking to one of Bundy's aides, Kennedy was quoted as saying, I want you to organize an in-depth study of every possible option we've gotten Vietnam, including how to get out of there. We have to review this whole thing from the bottom of the top. Um, and that's as he's getting on a plane to fly to Dallas. Nobody knows exactly where

Kennedy was at exactly in his head or what he would have done as he left for Dallas with no decision being reached, but both McNamara and Lyndon Johnson have stated that Kennedy was planning to withdraw after the 1964 election. And what we know for sure is that four days after the assassination on November 26, 1963, now President Lyndon Johnson signed national security action memo 273, which according to Oliver Stone, and Johnson constantly had his dick out. All the goddamn time, by the way, he would literally be like, have like, talk to have meetings with him in the bathroom with the door open. A man's love to show off his wing all the time.

Johnson was one of the weirdest guys who's ever been president and you, the more you read about him and his weird tape recordings and all the stuff that he did. He's such an interesting cat. I don't totally hate him, but according to Oliver Stone, that NSA memo 273, not only reversed Kennedy's plan to withdraw 1,000 troops, but reaffirmed our commitment to South Vietnam and US involvement continued to escalate all the way until Johnson deployed regular US military forces in the region. Though in reality, just the same memo, it was really the actual memo 273 was just the same memo that was drafted for Kennedy's sign on the 21st before he was killed with no

changes. So who knows if you would have actually signed it, and regardless today for Kennedy's sign on the 21st before he was killed with no changes. So who knows if he would have actually signed it? And regardless today, Kennedy is widely considered to have left the Vietnam War pretty much the same or a little worse than he found it, which is not the best. So now I have another similar question for you guys. If you are Kennedy in November 1963, would you hate the military industrial complex and

their designs on a full scale war? And if you're the US military leaders, are you pissed at Kennedy for going soft on some conflicts that just recently you were trying to go hard? Let me ask you a question. Let me ask you, I'm going to push back. Let me ask you a question. Yeah. Has there been a president since that is spoken up against the military industrial complex.

No, it was Eisenhower on his way out. JFK made the first attempt and nobody paid attention to it. Like let's just be real. That's what runs our country for the most part today. It's just the military industrial complex just makes all the calls. Go look at the military, bud. Go look at the budget. Every year we have to approve a budget and every year it grows and every year it's so much bigger

than everything else. And no one, people complain to be like, oh, it's so big. No one will do anything about it. No one will touch it. I feel like that's a question we should ask because if at least in this episode, the theory is the military industrial complex is what got him. Then I have to ask the question, have we since seen anyone try? No.

Right. No, not at all. And then it just money all over the government is not this fucking Pentagon has like 80 billion on accounted for in their audits every year and it doesn't change how much they get. It's not. It should. It's not cut it by 80 billion. But they didn't.

So now that we have all that out of the way, I'd say that you probably have all the context that you need to understand the things that we're going to be talking about when we break down the movie and the documentary like allegations more next week. You guys feeling pretty good about where you're at? You guys feel like, yeah, the foundation is very, very set up again. We're back. This is a nice episode for people to come back into because you don't really need to have watched the other, listen to the other episodes because we started kind of right at the top again.

Yeah, exactly. And now since we're caught back up literally on the timeline all the way back up to November 22nd, 1963 again, we're back up into the left. Yeah. Rather than walk you all through it again, like I did in episodes again, 139, 158, 159, and 160. I figured that instead of that, I'm gonna leave you with some absolutely optional homework and some even more optional extra credit,

but I promise that if you do them, you will enjoy yourself. Firstly, if you haven't already, now is the time for you to go watch the movie JFK. Steal it if you can, because fuck the movie studios trying to fuck over all the creative people that love making movies who work for them, just wanna be paid.

Yeah, we absolutely stay in with all those people striking, by the way, steel, steel JFK, watch it and try not to get brainwashed by it. Uh, I know all of our stones are real good at filmmaking. Uh, and I really like watching this movie by myself because I already know more about the Kennedy assassination than this movie could possibly hope to know. So this podcast does to you, by the way. And you see, you learn more on a subject than you ever did in school. But goddamn, as we will see next time,

that movie is even less accurate than you think, probably. Awesome. And in fact, here's a quote for Jesse to read from the film critic, Aaron Adidas, at Texas Public Radio for the movie's 30th anniversary in 2021. That's a nice guide for the headspace that you should be in while you watch JFK.

It's a long movie too. Try and watch the director's cut if you can, it's almost four hours. There's no denying that all of her stone has made a terrific and convincing piece of propaganda entertainment. And that's why, in the end, JFK continues to haunt us. We are at a moment where half of the country is drowning in conspiracies, and the other half

is trying to stay afloat by adhering to the facts. In JFK, the only thing that no one in the movie questions is that President John F. Kennedy was assassinated on November 22, 1963. The rest of the movie is comprised of alternative facts. Yep. And finally, I promise you some extra credits. So here you go. That's where Kelly and Conway got that fucking statement.

If you need a refresher on the assassination itself, or you don't know that much about it, go listen to our previous episodes for a nice overview of the events and conspiracy as a whole. But if you're already pretty familiar with it and you'd like a nice new, well-researched and crisply edited take that points directly to Oswald as the only person involved in the shooting, check out LemmyNo's video. It's going viral right now. He coincidentally posted

it earlier this week on his YouTube channel. It's LemmyNo, LEMM I know. It's called the Kennedy assassination inside the book depository and it's almost 100 minutes of pure repeat watchable non-trash journalism. It is very fucking good. Thank you for listening. Giuseppe LaRosa's latest adventure, the mystery of the Tower Hotel begins this week in the mini-seller to patreon.com slash sumoleypod. I love you. Don't forget about those clues I said at the beginning and that's all for now folks. Goodbye Goodbye Hello everybody welcome back to the Jaluminati podcast. It's always a one of your hosts Mike Martin joined by the I don't know who they are.

There's two. What? Karen's Hill and Bud Spencer. No. Neo and Trinity. Hill and Bud Spencer. Oh. Neo and Trinity. Oh! I don't understand, and I probably never will. Let me just tell you right now that there's two.

Beyond Kennedy and Clare. You'll tell me. I think he literally just looked up famous duos. Cheech and Chal. And he's been going through the list ever since. I'm trying to dig deep. Deep. Which one of you is Dick Powell?

Me? Your name's Jesse Cox. Ha, ha, ha. Ha, ha, ha. I want to. I want to. I do I want my life back I want to know I do I want my life back

I want you, I want you, I want you, I want you Hello everybody, welcome back to the Joluminati podcast As always of one of your hosts Mike Martin joined by Alex and Jesse Like a shooting star across the guy that's actually a UFO Thanks for watching! you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you