Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 215 - The Assassination of JFK Part 2 - FINALE (of this theory)

Episode Date: August 7, 2023

THE END OF THE SERIES IS HERE (until next time) Alex brings us back to JFK, and starts us on a whole new theory. Don't worry, if you missed the 1st series, you can listen to this without having to! Patreon - http://www.patreon.com/chilluminatipod MERCH - http://www.theyetee.com/collections/chilluminati Special thanks to our sponsors this episode - EVERYONE AT HTTP://PATREON.COM/CHILLUMINATIPOD Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - http://www.youtube.com/user/superbeardbros Editor - DeanCutty http://www.twitter.com/deancutty Art Commissioned by - http://www.mollyheadycarroll.com Theme - Matt Proft End song - POWER FAILURE - https://soundcloud.com/powerfailure Video - http://www.twitter.com/digitalmuppet

Hello everybody and welcome back to the Chaluminati podcast episode 215 as always. Hey, as always I'm one of your host Mike Martin joined by the little in large of LA. Jesse Nellix. Little in large? Yeah. Little in large. I don't know. What is that?

Sid Little and Eddie large. Dude, I have never heard of Sid Little or Eddie large. Not at all. To 1978 to 1991 they had a show on TV. That sounds like some Neil Gaiman characters, bro. I don't know. I don't know what to tell you about that. Look at Little Large now, I'm gonna let you know.

Alex is definitely more of a little because the guy that large looks like an old drunk and I feel like, it's you. I've never felt more represented. Real talk, Sid Little. In this picture on Wikipedia, that is exactly how my brother dresses every day of his life. My younger brother, that is exact. He looks like the young version of Clint Eastwood and Gran Turino.

People do not believe that we're brothers when they look at us, but we are. Yeah, welcome back, little and large. It's good to see you. It's been a 10th week of waiting to see what happens in the JFK theory. Spoiler, see a shot in the head right at the end. What? Yeah, I know, I know. Sorry. Yeah, Alex, this is yours. I'm going to hand you the reins and just enjoy the ride at this point. All right. That's right, friends. Like clockwork. Just as I predicted, I would would I have now proven to you By doing two episodes in a row without any breaks that my momentum is continuing unabated

Welcome to a second part of this tidy little two-parter Okay here on the show partner and speaking of keeping things tidy One of the cleanest most based things that you can do as a listener and enjoyer of the show is to come over and support us with money. Yes, entirely by choice. Over at patreon.com slash chaluminati pod. And I say by choice, because really, I'm not here to entice you with tales of ad-free episodes, weekly minisodes with up to the minute, perinatural headlines, and epic stone-related mysteries. Our excellent new movie commentary show, Rot and popcorn, not here for that.

Not here to convince you about a HBGB QT Ptuti bespoke visual emanations from the always fantastic studio melectro free merch. Not here to talk to you about early ticket sales discord or more. No, all I'm here to do today is speak to that one disgustingly rich listener,

who in this age of capitalist ruin will shine some of their hard earned opulence down onto our show as a security blanket against these brutal and uncertain times, you know, to make sure we keep on seeking the truth here on the airwaves forever. So we do here on the airwaves, we just seek the truth. That's right. Patreon.com slash Chilimonati pod. If $10,000 is just chup change to you, why not waste it on us? You can tell me what the truth is. Yeah. I'll take, I'll accept your truth for 10k a

month. Find us, find us now at patreon.com slash Chilimonati pod. However, if it's racist, we're keeping your money, but also not believing what you tell us to believe. Yeah, don't be racing that out. If you think you're going to be, yeah, yeah, exactly. Chilobinani pod, no racist allowed. That's our one. That's our slogan. That's our slogan. Yeah. Anyway, yes, folks, it's that time again for the second and final part of our JFK 2, the Oliver Stone series yet another set of episodes about that late great john Fitzgerald Kennedy guy and more specifically about a theory heavily championed by triple A Hollywood director Oliver Stone among others that a conspiracy among rogue elements of our intelligence and military communities out of

New Orleans was ultimately responsible for the whole Shabeng and again shout out to at Deanna writes ink our researcher Deanna for the absolute essential researcheng. And again, shout outs to at Deanna Wright's Inc. Our researcher, Deanna, for the absolute essential research she did for this project. Literally could not have done something on my own. I was just talking to Mathis about this before. It is absolutely impossible to research stuff about JFK compared to any other topic

just because of the sheer volume of writing out there and the sheer volume of research being done and the absolutely different conclusions that being done and the absolutely different conclusions that everybody has the way people misinterpret things and change things. It's all so confusing and to do this right, it takes a very, very large amount of juggling of different things. So shout out to her for that help. It really, really, really, really helped.

And props to you too, there, Alex, because you're taking the JFK thing. The way you're doing it is very impressive because deeper than a lot of other podcasts that I've listened to cover it in the past. You're doing each you're giving each theory like it's full fucking do it's getting you know multiple episodes for the theory it's it's very deep research so fucking props. I've never thank you I've never. Concerned myself with whether or not it's true, right? In any of the episodes that I do, right? So JFK is very perfect for this because I need to just play the part of each person who believes in this theory first.

And then I can like look at it and then I can tell you, I can like look into it and tell you what happens, right? So it's like, it doesn't matter to me whether it's true or not. And I know that sounds daunting, but what? What's the matter? I've never concerned myself whether it's true or not. And I know that sounds daunting, but what? What's the matter? I'm never concerned myself whether it's true. It's such a statement. I'm just saying, I don't mind if it turns out that the theory itself isn't the right theory,

right? I'm just here to tell you what the theory is, right? Sure. And it sounds intimidating, but you don't actually have to listen to the first set of episodes if you don't want to. I don't think, I think you should. I think it's probably good to listen to any podcast that comes out in order if you want to get complete understanding of everything that ever happens. But you don't need it if you have a basic working knowledge of

this again, a very heavily covered historical event. But if you want a nice background on not just the history, but the various popular elements that make up the mystery around the assassination, that's when you should check out episode 139, episode 158, episode 159, episode 60 of our show before starting this one. And I guess for sure, you should probably go back and listen to last week's episode. Like, this is just part one and part two. You should go back and listen to that. Since that one and this one are actually connected. And you should probably watch the movie JFK if you haven't already. I kind of gave you that homework last time. You get the idea.

You should have watched the movie. I'm pretty sure everybody who has a conspiracy bone in their bodies seen this movie at some point now. So let's get into it. Let's hit you with the disclaimer. John F. Kennedy was a real person and his assassination was a real act of violence. Therefore, we're going to be discussing some seriously disturbing imagery and subject matter throughout the course of the series.

This was the high profile murder of a sitting U.S. president, videos and pictures you Google after listening to this may disturb you, so proceed with caution. It also happens to be one of the most notorious moments in world history and therefore extremely ingrained into our national culture at all levels, not to mention world culture. So sometimes it's easy to forget that this really happened and it wasn't that long ago. And I'm sure that at some point during this one, two, or all three of us probably met this right now in the immediate future are going to be flipping about this in ways we haven't been about other murders on the show. So let me apologize for that now and in advance. And in after the fact, because I probably have already done it. And also, please remember that

until the very end, I'm going to be reporting just like I said, on what other people think happened that day. If you don't like what you hear, if you disagree with what I'm saying right now, please remember, do not shoot the messenger. I'm here to tell you what Oliver Stone thinks and whether and what I think of what Oliver Stone thinks. I'm not here to say what I think happened. At least until the end of this whole maxi series,

I will, when I do tell you what I really think. And finally, even though I promise I'm going to try and do this to the best of my ability, remember, I am not an expert. None of us are experts. I'm just an internet comedian. We are just dudes with beards on the internet with a podcast. So I'm probably going to make some mistakes, maybe even some egregious ones. So again, let me just apologize for that in advance. And now, without further ado, no ado at all. Let's get this show on the road. It's time for JFK 2, the Oliver Stone, part 2, the facts versus Oliver Stone. But before we get into all that, instead of teasing you with more clues about the tons of episodes I'm imminently working on, I

wanted to start us off with a quick look at a different, much more simple JFK mystery as an Amu's Boosh, which is something I've always said as essential before a huge brain meal since it ties everything all together thematically and serves as such an effective example of how we can be made to trust something based on its structure, even though it might grossly distort the facts

or more specifically in the case of JFK, make things that aren't related seem related purely by the way that they're presented for this little mini thing right here at the beginning. I want to shout out to Time Magazine and Snopes for this one. First things first, just under a year after President Kennedy was shot on a Friday, August 21, 1964. This article appeared in Time magazine and Jesse's going to read a quote from it now to get us all on the same page. Whoever collectors of odd facts congregate these days, the conversation almost invariably turns to the uncanny parallels in the lives and deaths of Abraham Lincoln and John F. Kennedy.

Oh my god, I know where I've heard that. However, it started. It is added up to a compending of curious coincidences last week, even the GOP congressional committee newsletter with a circulation among 15,000 Republicans joined in the game with its own list. There were no political motives, explain newsletter, editor, Edward Neff. We just thought of them as interesting. Yeah. Now, obviously, as Matt has already kind of said, if you're the type of person who does things like read every plaque at the city park,

it's possible you've already heard about at least some of these. Since after this first time, this kind of list kind of like spread to the ends of the earth as a way, way sort of like pre-internet meme type of article. But in case you aren't familiar, first let's have mathists lay out the most common list of coincidences. And then we'll talk about each one using the excellent article. Are these coincidences linking Kennedy to Lincoln real by David Michelson on snopes.com. So let me grab this for you, Matthew. Yeah. It's fascinating. It's the same, you know,

before we go into it, I believe it's kind of like the same mindset that people have who kind of like believe, oh, famous people die in threes where it's like, no, really, but there's a pattern. If you just kind of look for one, because you can find a pattern and anything. Right. All right. Let's see. Abraham Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846. John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946. If it wasn't John F. Kennedy, though, it would have been somebody else. Abraham Lincoln was elected president in 1860.

John F. Kennedy was elected president in 1960. The names Lincoln and Kennedy each contained seven letters. Both were particularly concerned with civil rights. That's debatable about Lincoln. Both wives lost their children while living in the White House. Both presidents were shot on a Friday. Both were shot in the head. Lincoln secretary Kennedy warned him not to go to the theater. Kennedy secretary Lincoln warned him not to go to Dallas. Both were, I want, yeah, like, I don't know, both were assassinated by southerners. Both were succeeded by southerners. successors were named Johnson Andrew Johnson who succeeded

Lincoln was born in 181808 Landon Johnson who succeeded Kennedy was born in 1908 John Wilkes Booth was born in 1839 Lee Harvey Oswald was born in 1939 both assassins were known by their three names both names are comprised of 15 letters. Both ran, Booth ran from the theater and was caught in a warehouse, Oswald ran from a warehouse and was caught in a theater. And finally, Booth and Oswald were assassinated before they healed. And that is actually not true. He got caught in movie theater. Yeah, they're like a little loose with the facts. Only a little. Yeah, admittedly though, at first glance, it feels pretty good, right?

Like, you can see. Well, yeah, it's something with the flat earth, right? If you read something and then don't actually do any research, it looks great. Yeah, some of the claims made you can like, kind of tell our true without having to do any research just because you understand like math and you can count, right? Yeah. And since it's a pretty interesting topic that you kind of really want to be true, just because it makes the world feel exciting and mysterious Following a script and make sure that's exactly that's already probably enough to start you like fantasizing about telling other people this like getting ready to like bust this out at like you know Sunday roast dinner for your

Repair and so whatever just blow people's minds with this crazy stuff But now let's revisit that snopes article and see what they were able to figure out with a little bit of Googling and some real research. Were they actually both elected to Congress 100 years apart in 18 and 1946 or as president in 18 and 1960? Absolutely they were. But the fact that exactly 100 years from each other feels important has nothing to do with anything besides the fact that one, they both served in the same country's government, where almost every president's trajectory is extremely similar and subject to the same election year rules. And two, simply just that humans think round numbers like 100 are neat. It's the same thing with Andrew Johnson and Lyndon Johnson's birth year.

They're like, it's almost the same ages as Lincoln and Kennedy because they're also vice presidents. So, I mean, it's also a case of cherry picking. Yeah. Abraham Lincoln and Kennedy weren't the only ones that were elected to Congress in 1846. They were in 1946. They were one of many. Yeah, exactly. And just because of the same ages, same jobs, like the years being close or the same is not really actually that crazy, right? It's not actually known. It follows the law. Yeah. Also, almost everything else important to happen to these guys did not happen exactly

100 years apart, like their births or their deaths or their ages. Just to name a few huge things. So like, what are we even saying? Like Lincoln also got elected twice. Kennedy did not get elected twice. They had totally different lives and political careers. Kennedy tried, Lincoln tried a lot of times to do a lot of things and failed a lot of times. Kennedy just kind of like was charismatic and successful and known and just kind of shot right through everything and just bang went straight to president.

The two election dates are actually more likely to be linked than not. And that's just more accurate to say than anything else. Well, yeah, there's like a less, less randomness in terms of like election dates because of the way the country works. So yeah, of course they were fucking elected around the corner of the years apart. Now, let's talk about the fact that their names both have seven letters. Is that crazy? Yes, that's insane. That's stupid. Yeah, it's there. It's insane in the like the stupid way, I mean.

Right. Well, first of all, average number of letters in a presidential surname, 6.64. So seven, then both having seven is like exactly what you would expect. Do you think that's like a subtle, I don't know, like something in the American ethos where we're like, I would call it marketing data. You know, if it's just a Smith, Smithson, you know what I mean? I don't know, it's interesting because I remember Smith, then Smithson, you know what I mean? I don't know. It's interesting because I remember learning this in like high school English or something. It might not say they'd be like the number, but like the syllables and how good it feels

to say and hear that name. Sure. So yeah, just like, you know, just saying like Abraham Lincoln is a nice three two. Mr. Lincoln. Where'd he go? Jesse Cox. Where'd he go? Something that's like two syllables, two syllables, it doesn't sound nearly as interesting.

But John Thin Kennedy, like or John Kennedy, it's all more fun though. It sounds better. Also Abraham and John aren't the same length. We can go look at the video games as a great example with that game, Phoenix, whatever, that Ubisoft release. That was actually really good, but like nobody knew what the fuck it was and had a terrible name and nobody really cared. It's interesting because when you think of Abraham Lincoln, right? People say Abe Lincoln

that takes it down to three. It's just easier to say. Abe Lincoln, yep. Right. Right. There is no Jonathan Kennedy. It's John F. Kennedy. Yeah, John. That's why it's John F. J. F. K. one, two, three. Because John Kennedy, you know what I say. Yeah. I vote for Jesse Cox. Kennedy. John. Yeah. John. That's why it's John F. J F K one two three. Because John Kennedy, you know what I say? Yeah. Yeah. I vote for a Jesse Cox. That's a good name. That's boom boom boom. It just is Alexander Fosion. He's not getting any votes, though. You know what I mean? And Mike Martin, it the two. Michael Martin's better than Alexander. Mike Martin would work though. Mike Martin's right in there. Yeah. Yeah. Alex Fotch. Nope. Sorry. I don't know like a chief of staff. I'm so secretary of dinner time. But yeah, Lincoln has no middle name. Kennedy has the middle name Fitzgerald. There's nothing

similar about their names. And Oswald and Booth having 15 liter long full names. Yes, technically that's true. None of their single names are the same length. Lincoln's name isn't the same length as Kennedys. Johnson's in the same length as Johnson's, even though they're both last name is Johnson. But before math this thinks about the president's dick for one more second, let's keep moving. Don't don't. Is it? Yeah. Is it really wild that two presidents of the United States, the famous free country, would both be particularly concerned about civil rights, especially when even like today, it's kind of the main

thing we ever talk about. It's like our big shame as a nation is that there's a huge portion of the people here who just think that not everyone is equal. The two of them worked it out, bro. They solved it. You think it's done? We're think we're wrapped up. A hundred years apart, problem solved. Yeah, you're right. It's, it's like every president since has been like, particularly it interested in, uh, civil rights ever since Lincoln, pretty much. Also, yes, it's true that both technically lost children while president,

uh, but does the coincidence seem nearly as uncanny when you consider mortality rates at two entirely different points in history, or the fact that Edward Lincoln died of tuberculosis at age four while Jackie Kennedy lost her baby to a miscarriage and a premature birth before it ever was even alive outside of the wound. It's fantastic. Everything old is new again. Birth rate, birth mortality rates in Indiana are dropping real quick so much so they just wiped out the people who keep track of that stuff. We're heading back to the 50s.

I can't wait. I can't wait. I said you guys that delightful video the other day where the guy from like 1973 was like, here's the future and it's right on the money. Oh my god. He is dead on like he's like, it's like 20 20 people. He's so fucked. Yeah.

It's like, we are. Oh my god. That's when the fuckery starts is 2020. By 2050, we'll be in the worst period in history. I'm like society will collapse as we understand it. Yeah, civilization as we know it will be gone. It will be a race. He basically is like, it basically is just like,

it makes sense, right? It's just because we're not, you know, the population is growing fast and we're not doing anything to get ourselves off of the old school ways of supplying people. So, but the fact that he nails 2020 so perfectly is, it's gross. It really is upsetting. You're like, oh no.

He's like, I'm sure we'll figure something out, but you've got to be brutal when it's already so bad to shock people and to do it. What? So bad. We'll figure stuff out one single tear. He's like, yeah, he's like, luckily, we've discovered this with 150 years to spare.

And it's like, well, also, let's, uh, let's go back to being shot on a Friday. If you actually asked the S experts on the fact that they're both being shot on a Friday, if that's like a coincidence or not, it's actually a fairly high one in seven chance. I know everybody will tell you it's one in 49, that's actually not true. And the fact that both guys were shot in the head by people who were trying to kill them is like, I mean, the natural place that you would expect them to be shot. What would you shoot? Yeah. Not to mention that one of them was point blank with a pistol,

and the other is like one of the most famous long range carbine rifle gun shots in history, like totally two headshots that do not resemble each other at all. Also, probably in an attempt to massage the truth a bit, a few of these ended up as just straight up lies in the end. Like, for example, Kennedy did have a secretary named Evelyn Lincoln, which by the way is a very common last name in America, who did warn him about going to Dallas. But Lincoln simply did not have a secretary named Kennedy like the list says. Also, warning the president of assassination attempts happens way more than you think it does. As we know from this show, there were

at least two other threats to Kennedy's life just in November of 1963, not to mention all those other times he went outside in public with his like weird Pope mobile car with no Pope mobile cover. Yeah, he always insisted on not having one. Yeah, speaking of which, the idea of an Oswald shooting Kennedy in a warehouse and running to a theater is sus because he shot him from a warehouse. He didn't shoot him in a warehouse. He shot him in his car from a warehouse outside.

And the idea of booth shooting Lincoln in a theater and then running into a warehouse is sus because it was more like a shed where people cure tobacco wasn't really a warehouse in the way that you're probably imagining it. And Booth was in there for days while Oswald was in there for like, I don't know, a couple hours an hour, you know, he wasn't in there for very long. And yes, both Oswald and Booth died before being taken to trial, but to say they were both assassinated is kind of crazy. Oswald maybe was assassinated in a way, right? But Booth was shot in the neck by a trooper outside the barn he was hiding in while they

were already in the middle of burning down the barn to smoke him out of the barn. So that's just more like a cop taking the lawn to his own hands and shooting someone for a sus reason, which I hate to say it literally happens all the time even now. And if you call that an assassination, you're kidding yourself. Similarly, Booth was born in 1838. He was not even born in 1839. So that's only 99 years from Oswald's 1939 birth. It makes it less cool. It's not, I guess not, even though double-nines is like, I guess could be cool.

Like depending on what you're interested in, you could say 99 exactly 99 years. And though both guys had three names, just like most Americans probably do. Most Americans do have a middle name, statistically. The calling them by their three names thing didn't happen until after they shout the president likely out of courtesy to all the other folks named Lee Oswald and John Willis in America, who suddenly ended up in that Adolf Gisling e-lon club, just trying to make the best of their shitty name that they got from a time when those people weren't awful, you know. And another strategy that's often used is saying, like, just vague enough things within your

wording to imply something significant without committing to anything concrete. That is absolutely key in these people's like, the way they speak to you and try to convince you that they are actually not real. Is everything is super vague, unless you know on the, the specifics, it's hard to question it. Exactly. So take the use of the word southerner in this list. Saying Oswald and Booth were both southerners does technically work because Oswald was born in New Orleans, and Booth was a sympathizer of the Confederate States of America. But Booth was actually born in Maryland and described himself and saw himself as an ordiner who merely understood and aligned his interests with the South while Oswald's

motivations literally had nothing to do with the fact that he was born in New Orleans at all. It was not a regional politics-based reason. He's like supposedly anti-candidies policies. They don't actually, we don't actually have a motive from Oswald exactly because he was killed way too soon to talk to him enough, right? And then next, when they say that they were both

also succeeded by southerners, this again is technically true. They were both succeeded by southerners, but at the time, it would be true of almost any northern president from these time periods because unlike today, vice presidents were usually chosen from the opposite side of the aisle because you had to balance out the ticket so that everybody would vote for you. Right. Yeah, that's, that's, yeah.

Lincoln is from the north and he's a Republican and he needs like a southern Democrat to like get on his ticket, right, to like kind of balance out being JFK was a Northern boy. And he needs that, he needs that Southern Republican on that ticket, right? So that's it. So, like, I mean, it's the same thing. It's always been like Biden is an old man, an old white dude. So he picked like a young black woman to be honest. Exactly. It's a balanced thing every single time. Yeah, exactly. And also the fact that they were both named Johnson is not that

amazing when you consider that it's one of the most common last names in America. It's like the second one after Smith. It is the second. Yes. Smith is number one. Johnson's number two. It is not so much a huge coincidences as it is one of the more likely possible outcomes considering the spread that we're dealing with, right? So like, you guys get what I'm trying to say here, right? Like, would you describe the relationship between Lincoln and Kennedy's lives as spookly uncanny?

What do you think about that? No, no, no, it says, if there's any similarities, it's purely coincidental. And again, we've had this conversation, too, where just take a minute, take a step back, think about how many people are on this planet, how many actions everybody are taking all the same time, coincidences are just mathematically and statistically going to happen. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, but also let's look at the list that we were given.

Some of the most outrageous claims are also just lies. But like the ones that were it's like they were born the same like 100 years part lie. They just it's so slightly alive. It's still definitely a lie. But they just just nudged the reality to the true to to to to make their to make their little thing true, right? It's like you can take any two things. I mean like yeah, saying Lincoln and Kennedy have seven letters. That's like years ago in 2012, Crendor and I and our other podcast would make a goof about how, you know, it was the Mayans like 2012, right? That big thing.

And our joke was that the Mayan robots would come back. And then one day we realized that Mayan robots is the exact same letters as Barack Obama. And we were like, oh, right. Like that, you could do that. It's a, yeah, anyone could do that with anything. Yeah, or watch somebody do like the numer you could do that. It's a, it's, yeah, anyone could do that with anything. Yeah. Or watch somebody do like the numerology,

you can like go see those people, those Q and on people, just like whipping out their crazy numerology stats. Dude, yeah, if you watch, truly if you watch it, it's like the numbers make no sense initially, they keep subtracting and subtracting until eventually there's something there, and like, that's my proof.

There's a great clipper clip of him talking to like a numerologist, Q and on person, where you're just like, whoa. If you get offended because we insult Q and like, that's my proof. There's a great clipper clip of him talking to like a numerologist, QAnon person where you're just like, whoa, if you get offended because we insult QAnon, you might want to go see a therapist. I don't have any sympathy for you. It other than that you got completely tricked. I feel like if anyone would donate $10,000,

there'd be a QAnon supporter, because that's gullibility that I'm here for. All right, well, if we start talking about JFK Jr., you know, then you'll know why. That's the gull that I'm here for. All right. Well, if we start talking about JFK Jr., you know, then you'll know why. That's the gullibility I'm here for. If you, if we're just kicking back on a beach somewhere, talking about JFK Jr., we're, if we plan a field trip to Dallas, Texas with no restaurant reservations involved, you know what we're doing? I have no food involved.

You know why we're in Dallas. Anyway, let's talk about Oliver Stone and JFK now. Last time we learned about the situation abroad with Kennedy and the Cold War and the case for whatever rogue powers they may have been or even continue to be within the United States government and the acts that they might have had to grind against him, which led to his eventual alleged Blacks Black Ops assassination. I could have spent 100% of a summary of this movie talking about this part of the movie where this guy comes out and tells you all this, but instead, I just used actual history and notes to

give you the real deal of it. So now you guys have a good base to work from, and so I'm not going to go super deep into that situation again when we get there later, but you guys know it. And today, now that you've hopefully checked out slash pirated, the JFK movie, like I suggested, which again, you should really consider doing before we listen to this. I think it's streaming somewhere too. I'm not sure, but I recommend bootlegging the director's cut if you can or stealing somebody's password to do that because I don't want to give anybody any money for this, but you get what I'm saying.

We're going to be re-examining the crucial details of this case as presented in the movie and in the documentary JFK Revisited that came out in 2021. The people involved and the way certain events were presented, see how they may not be accurate to the facts of what actually happened on that day with Lee Harvey Oswald on November 22nd, 1963, and simultaneously, we're going to reflect on the war and report and the events of the real-life garrison trial Oliver Stone uses as the sort of centerpiece from which to razzle dazzle us with his entire grand theory of conspiracy, and to protect us as we go from the stupefyingly persuasive magic of cinema, we're going to be heavily referencing the book Reclaming history the assassination of President John F. Kennedy by Vincent Bugliosi, which today is going to serve us as a fact-based

Anodot to Oliver Stone's confusing and obscuring of historical events as laid out in the movie JFK and Restated in JFK revisited which if I haven't mentioned it already is basically like a four hour version of the movie with whoopie Goldberg doing voice over instead of expensive actors hired to play Cajun legal assistance. Yeah. Whoopie Goldberg is an area. It's. Yeah. Wow. Amazing. Instead of instead of like writing a movie with a bunch of lawyers like Michael Rooker being like, so what you're saying is this guy never ever like he saw these two guys in a bar. Like that's like what the real movie is in the in the other one, it's like chill ass what be Goldberg saying exposition. And

both films have the same amount of Donald, Donald Southern in them, which is about 20 minutes. Donald Southern spends about 20 minutes in both films. He's got like a speech impediment nowadays because he's pretty old. So it's like kind of weird in the new movie because you can hear that he's like not doing so hot on the mic, but you could know, you know, he's there because he played X in the movie, if you've seen the movie, but we'll talk about X more later. And anyway, today's largely going to be based around the information found in the 33rd section of Bougly Osea's book, which is called Jim Garrison's prosecution of Clay Shaw and all of her stones movie JFK.

So if you want all the background on this and to dive much, much further into all aspects of the case, do yourself a favor, go out and buy this giant book. There's physical and there's digital's out there because on top of all the stuff we're covering here, there's about 1500 more pages of this like cynical, almost toxic well-researched goodness to go through. And it's just much better to do reading it for yourself than for me to try and focus all of it into an easily digestible story that we can get through in a couple of hours, which is pretty much exactly what Oliver Stone did to get him into this whole big mess

in the first place. And just real quick, an interest of hearing out both sides and because it was such a hit last week. Here's another quote from a negative review of the book by University of Georgia School of Law Professor Donald E. Wilk Jr. I don't remember who read this last time, but whoever wants to read it, just take this one here. I think it was me.

To those who have read extensively about the JFK murder, Boug Liocese, hypocritical, proclivity, proclivity, proclivity, proclivity, proclivity, that's how you say, proclivity, for cherry picking evidence is in the pungent words of assassination, investigative Jerry McKnight, as inconspicuous as a tarantula on an angel food cake. Yeah, now we've heard, now we've heard, you know, we've done our part in discrediting Bougly Ocey enough that, you know, I'm not giving him some sort of bias treatment.

We hear it from both sides. I read that entire complaint. It's actually quite long. And though I read it and he does make some salient points, it's not enough to disqualify the work in my opinion. He reads like an old Southern like what's his name? Fuck, I lost his name. It's gone, but I'll remember it.

An old Southern Jordan Peterson, that's how he reads to me. He reads to me like an old Southern Jordan Peterson, where he uses big words to make you sound like he's smarter than he actually is. Well, I'm just a small town Peterson. He's pretty well read. He's not like a totes dick. I just love how angry he is at this guy. I don't know, I just, I can't get over the toxicity.

I didn't total, I can't totally help myself even in this guy. I don't know, I just, I can't get over the toxicity. I didn't total, I can't totally help myself even even in this episode. They are absolutely whole ass like country's worth of alliances within the JFK conspiracy who believes what? And it's a lot like the UFO world where nobody works together. Everybody thinks they're right and they all fight each other. And then if anybody gets funding, they get pointed out as a sham and they no longer are trusted. It's like two pocket big e vibes, but like guys talking about Woody Harrelson's dead. But yeah, we're a whole other theory. We could do one day two pox to the live. Two, don't even get me started. We are in New Orleans now. The indictment we have from

New Orleans DA Jim Garrison's office on March 22nd, 1967 quote, the only prosecution ever arising out of Kennedy's murder and quote asserts that three men that we've met before on this show Clay Shaw, David W. Ferrian, of course Lee Harvey Oswald conspired to murder John F. Kennedy. In the past, we've touched briefly on these people and the wild accusations that have been leveled against all three of them, but today we're going to look a little closer in order to find out why. Why did Jim Garrison pursue this?

How did he let it get so far? And what really happened here that made this the most famous JFK theory of all time, almost certainly? Well, the first thing you have to know is that when this whole business went down, centered as it was around the sky, Clay Shaw, This was an extremely big deal in New Orleans. Both Garrison and Shaw were listed in the March 1967 issue of the New Orleans Town and Country magazine as part of the 35 most important men in New Orleans.

And when the charges of conspiracy to murder the president were brought, it wasn't just scandalous. It was surreal and unbelievable, like if AOC suddenly came out saying that Gordon Ramsay was a North Korean spy, except if also they looked and dressed kind of similar to each other and lived in the same town. Jim Garrison was a physically huge, gentle, giant type guy. I think actually some people referred to him as the Jolly Green Giant.

He was a reconnaissance pilot in World War II who flew 35 missions in France and Germany, came back, got into government, did four months in the FBI before running and winning as New Orleans district attorney in 1962. He had like one killer debate. And then on the day before the election, he spent all his advertising budget on like one day of wall to wall commercials, which is a crazy strategy, but it totally worked. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you think about it, well, we know about humanity.

Now we have a very short attention span. So just like the last thing you remember. Yeah. Basically, his whole platform was about reform and anti-corruption. And right away, after being elected, he launched into a bunch of like wild press friendly busts like you see in like Batman when the DAG comes in. He rated a bunch of strip clubs and gay bars like you do when you got to want to, when you got to want to get a bunch of old white people excited, even though he'd usually release

everyone the next day just to get that action happening. And he went hard on a strict bail bond laws too. And everyone in New Orleans was really behind him. Like most of the, most of the older richer voters were behind him in October of 1966. As this sort of new sheriff in town, tough on crime, young buck guy, he had this, that kind of image going for him when he first started investigating his JFK assassination case, get shot. And here's a very quick quote for him

about him for Jesse to read right here. Really quick quote. Nialyns fell in love with him. He looked like Paramasin and sounded like Elliot Ness. Shaw, who was also super tall like Garrison, just like six, six guy. Like anybody would say first thing about Clay Shaw, he's tall. Was a major in World War II who was awarded medals for heroism and then came back to be one of the founders of the New Orleans International Trade Mart.

He headed up the building of the actual trademark building in New Orleans. And then with all the money he was making as the managing director, he restored 16 historical homes in the city's French quarter well enough. They actually got magazine coverage for it in multiple magazines. And politically, he was known to have loved the Kennenys, he voted for Kennedy. He even referred to himself as a liberal. And culturally, he loved languages, travel, fine dining. He knew his way around the wine list. He was always finding time to read and see and listen to and watch, visit the classics, the iconic world locations.

He ran in circles with people like Winston Churchill and Tennessee Williams. And he even wrote a few plays of his own which were published and performed. And you can still find available online today like for sale even, like still in print even some of them. And he along with pretty much everyone in New Orleans who at this point had no reason not to believe Garrison was absolutely gobsmacked when he was accused of participating in this

conspiracy. And from the beginning, he didn't so much take the charges seriously as treat them like the bizarre ravings of an unwell obsessive who had just sort of like randomly decided to try and destroy his life. And honestly, for the life of him, he had no idea. That's what I'm trying to do with this podcast for five years. That's what I heard about you. Exactly.

Yeah. Trying to destroy someone's life. And for the life of him, he had no idea what he was doing on the list of people like Lee Harvey Oswald and David Ferry, because to him, as like this socialite, this like really just man about town, people like Oswald and Ferry were just simply not the type of normal good-up standing people that he would like associate with. Right? So Ferry, for example, was this like cartoonishly loud, manic depressive eccentric and quote unquote torture genius who wore a bright red homemade wig all the

time and huge thick fake eyebrows. If you go and go look up a picture of him because he suffered from alopecia. So he just like made his own fake hair to wear and made him look super like didn't like pass as normal hair by any means. And at one time or another, he had held all kinds of wild jobs in his life from commercial airline pilot to high school science teacher to private eye to pianist accomplished pianist to gas station owner to hypnotist to unlicensed clergyman, which was one of his dreams was to be a clergyman unlicensed clergyman.

He like went into the school and then he couldn't be in it anymore. And so he just like kind of decided he was a clergyman. He like went into the school and then he couldn't be in it anymore. And so he just like kind of decided he was a clergyman. And then he was an un credentialed psychologist and an unemployed cancer researcher. All things that he actually did. I thought about being a priest for a little while, my life. I could see him as like a 13, 14. I could see your little lost.

Not because I was religious, but he was like, I don't have to pay, I can like live for basically do whatever I want and get like a house. And I just got to pretend I care about God. God will have to listen to me if I'm a priest. Do that, get everything I want. I should have been my thought. I would have went through with it

if that was my thought process. I'd be out there praying. I'd just become preacher. Yeah. When I was like 26 and I was like really hustling on the YouTube and shit, I mean, I still kind of am now. But like back in the day when I was like dumb and young, I was like, yeah, when you have me, I'm same thing.

When you have like infinite energy to just like do this. I legit was so stressed out and like anxious about my life and my job that I was like fantasizing about living in jail. Because I thought that would be cool. You know, I told, I told you. I told you have those thoughts before too when things were like really bad. I was like, at least in jail, I like get fed and I don't have to think about anything. It's the same idea as wishing to be a priest in my mind.

It's romantic to have just a regimented discipline schedule. And it was work one or two days, like do mass for a couple of days. I don't actually want to live in jail. I don't actually want to live in jail. Obviously, but that was just younger than depressed me thoughts. What the hell was that? I'm a big proponent of prison reform.

That's, those are stories for tales from the crib, man. I'm just saying, I get it. I get wanting to be a priest. I get having a stressed out life and wanting to live. Who would? Honestly, I thought I was going to get like two Jesse reactions, but I appreciate you. Yeah. He was also notoriously anti-communist and outspoken about how he blamed Kennedy for

the failed Bay of Pigs invasion in Cuba. And around New Orleans, he made him like a name for himself in the anti-castro scene, which according to Garrison was why he was going to be the getaway pilot in the assassination on November 22nd, despite allegedly, according to Garrison, being fired from Eastern Airlines for having sex with a 15-year-old boy, or at least trying to. Yeah. And actually, now is a great time to mention that behind closed doors, both Clay Shaw and David Ferry happened to be gay.

In the world of reality and world history, gayness was absolutely not the vibe in this location and in this time period, especially if you're old, especially if you're white, especially if you're Christian and rich, most people who have any sway over to the local DA, and regardless what you believe about the assassination of the president, without question, Jim Garrison for sure, weaponized the fact that these two guys were gay repeatedly, either whether he did it wittingly or unwittingly, in his extreme zeal to convict people for killing the president, often substituting liking boys for having any sort of criminal intent as a method of trying to convince the jury.

But not to trust them. I gotta pause that right second. That's, think about that, right? You just, you, you couple the idea of pedophilia with being gay. And what are we seeing today over the past year or two, the same exact tactic is happening right now. People who are transsexual, cross-dressers, or just being a drag queen, all being linked with like pedophilia, which is the most infuriating thing in the world.

The thing that's, yeah, the thing that's crazy to me is that as somebody who's not a total pussy and not afraid to associate with somebody who's slightly different from me in some ways, you know what I mean? Just like meeting and speaking to people of different genders, different sexual orientations, different, you know, whatever. It's very easy if you don't have that experience to just be like, have the evil gaze, you know, literally at one point, Garrison referred to the assassination by these three guys as a quote, homosexual thrill killing. Can you believe that?

Jesus Christ. This is like, this is the guy from the movie JFK. We're talking about. It's so obvious what his goal is and it isn't figuring out JFK. It's latching that onto his agenda of the anti-gay, like zealousness of it all. Well, yeah, well, we'll get, I don't actually think he was that anti-gay. Like, in reality, he's actually on record a lot of times as like speaking up on behalf of gay people. But I think how long after this has that has happened. Before and after. But I think that the reason that it's the reason that it's frustrating is because it's about that Moby Dick energy. It's about that like obsessing, obsession with an outcome rather than with the truth and

and kind of like it's sad to see what things you will resort to in those times, right? It's even somebody like Garrison who amongst politicians and especially DAs was, you know, openly kind of against Gays in a way where he was using that as a weapon, but like actually probably didn't have that much hatred for them in his real private life, which is just even almost worse. Oswald on the other hand, of course, I'm going to get you to that though, like that. I mean, that's holds true even now. Like it's a lot of people who are raised to see this as like a sin or something to be like evil.

And then a lot of the time, you know, those who are having those thoughts and those feelings, instead of addressing it in a healthy way, all they know is evil, sin. And so they turn it into self hate, which then becomes outward hate. And especially those like how many times do we find out politicians, even now are like being discovered for all these things. He's using this, yeah, he's using this for political gain. He's using this unfortunate tendency for his own political gain. And Oswald in Garrison's version of events was only maybe gay or slightly bi-bi-osmosis

or something, but that didn't matter as much because he was really more of an unwitting dope in the whole situation. His job was just to convince everyone he was pro Castro, even though he was really more of an unwitting dope in the whole situation. His job was just to convince everyone. He was pro Castro, even though he was really an extreme right wing CIA operative before eventually getting tricked by the evil gaze Sean ferry into taking the heat for multiple squads of precision shooters, positioned around the motorcade and trying to kill box configuration by the same shadowy rogue CIA elements that were pulling Sean Ferries little unsavory gay strings from behind the scene.

How do you become bi biopsmosis? Because like I want to put that in my Twitter. That's right. Because by needing to be in some certain locations and some certain times to make some legal arguments. So lying is what it was. Yeah, Oswald, it's so crazy because as much as Oswald is in the movie a lot, Oswald is like just kind of like proof that people are involved in killing Kennedy in practice in the trial. And

Garrison is not very accusatory. He even almost makes Oswald a hero at points in his testimony and kind of makes him this like sort of anti-hero character who like makes him this sort of anti-hero character who wasn't really into killing the president, but was kind of getting manipulated and kind of realized he was taking the fall in real time and kind of giving him this sort of empathetic angle that I think is kind of weird. But he's really not central at all to anything that Garrison says and actually not central at all to this theory because according to Garrison, Oswald didn't even pull the goddamn trigger. He was nowhere near the gun so he didn't do any shooting at all. He was just there to seem like he would because he's like a weird guy. You know what I mean? And so I actually

don't talk about Oswald that much. Yeah, I have such a I have such a freaking problem with that thought process though. I agree with you, but I like because of that, he's not even really in this theory that much, even though he's the guy who, you know, went down for this. I just want, I know we know this, but like the idea to put that put it out there, like pretending he didn't shoot him or it wasn't involved in anyway, ignores everything that happened after the shot went off, including him being so nervous he shot a cop in the head to make sure they were dead. And that is like undoubted.

But that's what you do when you're really nervous, even if you didn't actually point at. We found the bull, like there's there's forensic evidence that shot was more fired. Like that is yes. I mean, I threw some doubt on that last time we talked about this. But again, this is not my theory. And neither was that one. I'll do this up if we, if I can remember to do so. But we got, I got an amazing back that, that time, an amazing email to some, from somebody who was like an accredited like firearms guy,

you know, you showed me like his licenses and stuff. And he was just talking about how it absolutely, he absolutely could have fired it because of the quality of ammo and the quality of his gun made it not nearly as reliable as it needed to be. So him firing and still like hitting somebody, but not as like, right. So it's all possible. I can dig up the ballistic stuff for the next time it's in the end. Yeah, no, absolutely. I remember when that happened.

Yeah. But yeah, basically the damage all this did to the official story and people, the American public understanding it was absolutely catastrophic. And the fact that a movie was made about this later makes it even worse. Americans are really good at being entertained for news. 100%. Garrison went on TV multiple times throughout his time on the case, giving the first conspiracy theorists the original script for basically everything we're still out here obsessing

over today, announcing things like quote President Kennedy was killed by elements of the central intelligence agency of the United States government He did on TV He repeatedly asserted that fairy and Oswald were being employed by the CIA and on WKBW in Buffalo, New York on July 19th 1967 he was quoted as quote, the CIA knows the names of every man involved in the assassination, including the names of the individuals who pulled the triggers from the grassy knoll. And just to sort of underline the point that Garrison, it not isn't just culturally, but

also like literally responsible for tons of this discourse. Buglioshi mentions that once the word is out in the conspiracy circles, the small conspiracy theorist circles that they were at that time, you know, in the early 60s, once the word got out that an honest to goodness DA was like working on the same kind of stuff

that they were getting laughed at for, but it was being taken seriously, instead of like being made a laughing stock, a literal army of JFK conspiracy theorist, like Mark Lane, who we'll mention again later, Penn Jones, Richard Popkin, Tom Katen, Vincent Salandria, Edward Epstein, William Turner, Jones Harris, Harold Weisberg, David Lichten, Mary Farrell, May Brussell, Richard Sprog, Raymond Marcus, Alan Chapman, and the comedian Mort Saul, who himself went on Johnny Carson and told him, Garrison was the quote, most important man in America.

All of those people that I just said all actually came down to New Orleans to his office and volunteered their time to help get this thing as they saw it Blown-wide open so it was literally like Conspiracy school for everybody together all in one place to like share all their ideas and be taken seriously They're within that there was a smaller group of hardcore anti-warren report lifers like Mort Saul the comedian who despite a Successful career paling around with people like Sinatra and Nixon, and even appearing on the cover of Time Magazine with Nixon and Kennedy one time himself, Mort Saul worked on and off for Garrison for four years without pay just to get this done.

And people like him were nicknamed the Deely Plaza Erregulars around the office. And though in one way way that could come across as like the people banding together no matter what to like fight back against the grand overreach by rogue elements within the government. In another way, it was kind of like the beginning of the end for anybody ever taking this seriously. And in fact, here's a quote from the book for math is to read now. As with Saul, Garrison actually gave several of them who had come to be known as the Deely Plaza regulars, DA investigator credentials, but other than Bill Turner, which is insane

to that, that's insane, like think about that for a second. They gave them DA investigator credentials. But other than Bill Turner, a former FBI agent, and perhaps the only Dele plaza irregular, whom Garrison called to help out, not one of them had a one day of experience investigating a crime. Whoa, what? I feel like it'd be the same people who go to like the JFK junior resurrection of the United States.

Yeah. Well, some of them are like other serious, like a lot of those people that I said, if you know this scene, are people, yeah, with writing on this, yeah. 100%. And yeah, because I mean, this also keep in mind, he used, like you said, he said on TV in like, on a show that millions and millions and millions and people watched, there wasn't any internet to cross check any of this information. Thomas Bethel, a member of garrison's regular staff, said at the time that the trouble with these conspiracy theorists is quote, quote, is that the only way they can make a strong

impression on Garrison is by coming up with flamboyant nonsense. They therefore represent a serious threat to the sanity of the investigation. Right. So they're now trying to like act out, right, to like get more excitement on their theory, even though it's not true. It's just about being the golden boy for a second. But eventually, even the conspiracy peep started to bail on Garrison for the most part, because in the end, they were turned off by how little concerned Garrison had in the face of mounting evidence that he may have been prosecuting an innocent man this whole time. And actually, here's a quote for Jesse to read that shows that really it might even be

worse than that. The belief among many in the conspiracy community is that Garrison's fiasco and Nyallins actually set their movement back several years. Up until the House Select Committee on assassination re-investigated the assassination in the late 1970s, conspiracy theorists trying to peddle their theories more often than not had Garrison's misadventure thrown in their face.

If Garrison turned up nothing, the thinking went, why would we believe your theory has any more merit? This was particularly true since Garrison had already incorporated so many of their theories into his position. So yeah, this is another problem that is like also common amongst UFO people is just that. Oh, yeah. These other people get really popular and use, they like use other people's research as building blocks and build up this whole theory that's like totally crazy and, you know, selfish

and just for financial gain. And then not only does it discredit themselves, but it spreads that discredit onto the other people who were doing honest work, you know, trying to figure the shit out. Anytime now in the UFO, if anyone gets any funding at all, Avilob, I read a bunch of comments about like any funding whatsoever, they're immediately in it for themselves, they're just a shill, they're using it to do all this stuff. And it's insane because like Avilob, for example, raised 1.2 million to do that two and a half week expedition on the ocean. People think that's an insane amount of money. I'm like, no, that's to get that done to

all, to pay the crew, to have the equipment, to test the stuff. Like, doesn't discredit them at all, but that's where we're at. And yeah, it makes it really easy to discredit like people who do actual work in any conspiracy, third circle, quote, unquote, by just having people like this come in and do this shit. Yeah, exactly. And that is exactly the reason why the guy who wrote this book, Bugliosi, is mad at Oliver Stone and Jim Garrison. And it's also the exact same reason why Professor Wilkes,

the guy who wrote the review of the book is mad at the guy who wrote the book. It's just all it's all that same exact feeling. And I'm not going to get into the beat-by-beat process of the trial because it's a wild guy, just drawing wild conclusions based on a mixture of wild gut feelings and wild witnesses. And also because even though both give the same gist

in a lot of ways, the version of facts present in the real trial and in the trial from the movie and the other things that the movie shows mostly do not resemble each other. Like, for example, Garrison was almost never actually present for the proceedings of the real trial, whereas in the movie he's like fucking Phoenix right doing all these monologues all the time trying to inspire America to be better. I wish that's what court was like. Yeah. But just to give you an idea of what kind of unhinged behavior we're dealing with in here, let's have Mathis read us the

tale of one Edgar Eugene Bradley, which, you know, three names, you got to watch out. On a 7th, 1967, no one succeeded in stopping Garrison from filing a criminal complaint against on Edgar Eugene Bradley, alleging Bradley did quote, willfully and unlawfully conspire with others to murder John F Kennedy. Garrison's evidence against Bradley, a young man from Van Van Nui. Is that how you say that? Van Van Nice. Van Nice, California, lived in the town of a woman who was involved in a lawsuit with Bradley.

And when she told him that Bradley looked like one of the three tramps arrested in the railroad yards, he wrote a letter to Garrison to this effect, adding for good measure that Bradley had offered him $10,000 to kill Kennedy when the letter, when the latter was a US Senator, but he had turned Bradley down. Several years later, it was determined that the man, a member of the minute man, was 14 years old at the time that Bradley made, that Bradley allegedly made him the offer. When Dallas deputy sheriff Roger Craig, whose credibility or severe lack thereof, was discussed earlier in this book, told Garrison that he saw Bradley in Deely Plaza on November 22, 1963, posing as a secret service agent in Garrison star witness, Perry Russo said

very new Bradley, that's all Garrison needed to charge Bradley with Kennedy's murder. Yeah, very clear, that's a very clear description as to why he's guilty. Yeah, it's absolutely insane that a 14 year old, like he's like, yeah, he told me this while one I was 14. It's like absolutely insane. By the way, we have not talked about Perry Rousseau just yet, but remember him for later when we go through things piece by piece. And in case you don't know, the Minutemen was like this sort of like proto-proud boy, anti-communist,

anti-castro pro-American, nativist, militant, cell-based counter revolutionary group that like stockpiled weapons and got ready for war. And in reality, like, 30 nerds who wish they were a hero of a story that's not happening. Yeah, the dude who made it got taken downtown for planning to rob a bank and then he skipped town to New Mexico and got arrested. And there's a lot more to that. But you get the idea. Go read about it somewhere else.

I don't have the point. Like you said, man, the JFK conspiracy is like home to so many other wild things. There's no time. It would be a whole fucking year of content just on that. The problem with conspiracy, and we talk about this all the time, is that in believing one, it leads to believing another and another. And well, if that's possible, and this was possible, or in order for X to be possible, why has to be possible? And it's just you keep adding onto it, which is how you get to like,

you know, John, if can I add junior, coming back to be the vice president kind of thing? Well, you're absolutely, just why when you ask people, they do their your own research because if they say it out loud, it sounds fucking insane. You go to, you go to,

you go to prove it and you get desperate and then you reach for like somebody who else who hasn't done a good job. And then their whole history of doing a bad job becomes your history of doing a bad job. Another non-political example, this is the literal missing 401 one stuff that we covered about last year at this time. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yes. That is exactly what's going on with that. It's just like, just what the fuck are we even reading now?

You know what I mean? Yeah. At this point, when you do a little research, you're like, wait, what is this man is just lying? Yeah, exactly. Or like he doesn't even, he never saw the real data or something. Yeah, he never did the actual research or never. Yeah. Good to know. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Bradley though, who worked as a business rep for a right-wing radio evangelist in North Hollywood, California said, quote, I, who worked as a business rep for a right-wing radio evangelist in North Hollywood, California said, quote, I shot who? When he found out Garrison had filed the complaint. And in 1968, because Garrison never presented any evidence at all, even after being given the explicit chance to present witnesses, Governor Reagan denied Garrison's extradition request

for Bradley. And it's basically just a bunch of stuff like this over and over until he got so hair-road and so desperate and so erratic, and his goodwill with the people of New Orleans had so eroded that everyone good who trusted him just like kind of slowly jumped ship, right? As an example of that. At one point during the investigation, a thing that was kind of sus was that happened, and which we'll dive into a little more detail later, is that at a very unopportunetime, at a key point in the investigation, David Ferry was actually found dead at home,

under slightly strange circumstances, kind of hobbling the entire case. We've talked about this briefly also at other times, but this did happen for real. And at first, what were the conditions they already found? You know, well, we'll get into it in a minute. Okay. But at first, lots of people, he had an aneurysm. Lots of people on the case, and there were some notes. Lots of people on the case were actually relieved when this happened because they thought, surely they would finally be free of this insane goose chase. And it even kind of gave him this out where he didn't really have to admit that he was wrong the whole time because he'd kind of point to the death of David Ferry and be like, see, they didn't want us to

get close. They killed us. They killed our witness. So now we'll never know. You know what I mean? Like he could have went down that road. But instead what he did was he turned around and quote, almost immediately charged Shaw with the murder. Like he like doubled down like a zealot, right?

Uh, we, we've talked about that a million times in both conspiracy theorists as well. They, if doubling down is easier and safer for your brain. Exactly. And another question is like, is he trying to save face or does he actually believe all this shit, right? That, that becomes the major question with Garrison. And some people left in disbelief because they saw him react like a crazy person when they found out that when he found out that

fairy was dead, saying stuff like, quote, this is just the beginning and shit like that. I mean, even if he didn't necessarily begin it, believe it in the beginning, there's, it's a possibility that he lied so much that he began to believe it in seconds. Yeah, it's very, people do that all the time. Colt leaders are a great example of that. Oh, dude, that's basically what this is kind of you think about it. Absolutely. But as Jesse's about to read for you now, for others, they actually saw something even worse than that happening.

So here you go. Warren commission critic Harold Weisberg. Weisberg? Yeah, whatever. Um, was one of Garrison's strongest earlier supporters, and he went to Nyarlins, help Garrison on his case. Garrison reciprocated by writing the forward to Iceberg's 1967 book Oswald in Nyarlins. But months before the trial, he disavowed Garrison.

Although he was not inclined to elaborate, Iceberg told me he was a witness in Nyarlins to Garrison making up a piece of evidence against Shaw, and when he saw this he said, I knew I had to sever my association with Garrison. Wysberg said that Garrison, the man, quote, was one of the greatest tragedies in investigation in the investigation of Kennedy's assassination. He was highly talented and intelligent, articulate, but somewhere down the road, he lost contact with reality, and that is capitals.

Yeah. Lost contact with reality. Like, I just don't understand what he was up to. There was just no evidence of Shah's guilt. Yeah. So what was Garrison up to? In a quote, which I kind of see as Bugliosi's final word on the question of whether he was legit or whether he was faking it for attention, is that in actuality, it was more like a very depressing combination of both. And here is that quote now for Mathis to read. And then we'll move on to the movie listicle part of today's

presentation. So here's a little quote for you, Mathis. My view for whatever it's worth seeing that I did not know Garrison and being aware that it conflicts with the views of some people who did know him is that Garrison eventually came to realize that his suspicions about Shaw were unfounded, yet he persisted in prosecuting an innocent man. My sense is that Edward Wegman, one of Shaw's attorneys summed up the entire case in Garrison's motive for bringing it as well as anyone I've heard. Quote, an innocent man has been the victim of a ruthless, unethical, and fraudulent public

prosecutor who, with premeditation and full knowledge of the fall, a fallacy, fallacy, falsity of the charges brought against Shaw, used him for the sole purpose of obtaining a judicial forum for his attack upon the credibility of the war and commission. In other words, and pardon the play of words, Clay Shaw was just a patty. Was this about what you guys expected in terms of Oliver Stone taking some creative life? No, actually, surprisingly not. Like do you do you do you think his portrayal events as as they are in the movie has crossed

any sort of line at this point? Like do you think that his on true? Do you think he's dangerously elevated unt truths to truths in the zeitgeist? Is the blood on Oliver Stone's hands? I mean, not, see, look, I know we're about to get. So I understand we're going with this, but even trickling in little lies or falsities or nudging the truth in different ways is basically the hook or the bait to pull you deep once we'd about to jump off what I'm assuming is the deep end. We're just going to learn about exactly how false a lot of the things are in this movie.

Okay. Sure, sure, sure, but it is storytelling and stone as we said last week, all of this was something that he acknowledged and said, look, yeah, you know, I'm storytelling. I mean, this is it and said, look, yeah, you know, I'm storytelling. I mean, this is, it would be like if we came at the same way that, I don't know, Disney did Pocahontas, for example. You know what I mean? Like, that wasn't the story Pocahontas and never will be the story Pocahontas. But they also didn't, yeah, they also didn't use images of the real Pocahontas and then like, cut, jump, cut it with actresses playing Pocahontas and, you know, said like Pocahontas was murdered by John Smith, read the clues, they're right there in front of you. You know, it's like, right, but also which one of these movies between the two still the

test of time. You know what I mean? JFK. I mean, look JFK, he presented it as like we read between the lines. We got 12 researchers to get you to real story of what happened. You know, they're, it's a, it's a historical drama where they're saying things that are absolutely what we'll get there. We'll get there.

But sure, sure. What I'm saying is more people identify, no, I mean, certainly more people identify in the end. More people identify the story, Poe,hontas and John Smith from the animation, then the JFK assassination from this film. Even though they use real actual stuff in it, and a lot of it still made up, more people are like, oh, I believe the made up story of John Smith and Pocahontas. Oh, cuz it makes you feel good. One, and two, I don't think this, I don't think- So which is more damaging, you know what I mean?

I know, yeah, there's a whole, yeah, there's a whole fucking debate with that there. Like it's an interesting thought, which is worth. I think this is like about trusting your government. But like this movie is also not being put out under the guise of entertainment, right? He's putting it out as though it's a documentary style. Like this is the truth. I did my research, right? It's still definitely entertaining.

I'm gonna say, JFK was 100% of it. I still definitely entertainment, but it's not like. I've never seen it. So I just, you know, it's not presented in a way like how, like when I watched Pocahontas, you know, as a fifth grader. Can I compare this,

look where I was getting with this, is can I compare this with the mermaid documentary that Discovery put out? It's not a documentary, it's a little, no, yeah, no, it's a narrative film. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's using real footage from things. Think about how metal gear solid sometimes uses archival footage while characters are talking.

The world is burning. Like that kind of stuff. It's like literally a movie with a story and characters and then somebody will monologue for 20 minutes and they'll go to news footage and then also have footage of Gary Oldman as Oswald mixed in with the news footage and sometimes like recreating. Yeah. See, to me, the way you describe it, it sounds like a presentation of like a documentary style, like a evidence thing.

Pocahontas, I as a fifth grader knew that it wasn't accurate to history and this, I until I started doing the show, thought that it was just like pretty close to what is weird about the camera. I'm going to give you the opposite. I did not know as a kid that it wasn't so flowering like like peaceful between like John Smith. I didn't think magic was real and then she was talking to tree animals, but I did think for a while that it was a peaceful thing until like I got to the age where I could and

the internet came around and I could start doing my own research in a way that didn't involve having to go to the library and look for books. Yeah, she was not smoking hot. She was a child. Yeah. You're not gross. You're not going out today and seeing people in New England camping out and like like praying to flip and meco from Pocahontas in the same way that people are showing up at

Deely Plaza. Those names off the top of your head. Bro, don't even, yeah, listen, I used to work a blockbuster video for like seven years. The, I did once go to like one of those old mining things. Yeah. Were you like, pan for gold? And I was like, oh, my boy, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my from the, I, you know what? Yeah, I'd be the villain. I feel like that guy's like up your ass now. I'm up the accent. Yes, I do.

I have a pungry. For some reason, I can't remember his name, but I remember the other guys, the fucking hummingbird's name. Yeah, I can't remember his name. Anyway, the point is, JFK makes people not trust the government and like, said things about the government that aren't true.

And I think that's a little bit different in a way. But you're right. They are both the same problem, which is that like in order to tell an entertaining story and to get people excited, they just changed stuff. And so does Oliver Stone have any more responsibility than the people that wrote the cartoon and Pocahontas? I don't know. I don't, I don't think there's a right answer, but I was. I am interested in it. In a way, we're less talented in Oliver Stone, because we don't even make an attempt

in that way. We just make terrible jokes along the way while we give you a history lesson. I use the thing, I love JFK still. Yeah, I still love the movies. We're also currently, like, if you want to do like a very current version, Oppenheimer is getting a lot of pushback suddenly for all sorts of reasons, not just the people talking about the effects of the bomb and stuff like that. But more importantly, people talking about

how during the testing of it, how they displaced, you know, many people that were on that land, and many people died of radiation poisoning and sickness, and how like, you know, the real Oppenheimer story is a lot more detailed and intricate. All those things where when you tell a movie, you got two hours to tell something and it's impossible to hit every single thing and you want to hit it from an angle. So in this case with JFK, he's attacking the subject from one angle and you know, you

have to admit that the question is what when they make the choices of what characters to elevate and what characters not, that's when it becomes a little problematic, but like that's always been Hollywood, right? Like that's exactly what we're going to do. That's what we're going to talk about today. Yeah, yeah, it's always been Hollywood is right. Yeah, and for the record, JFK smacks, it's an absolutely awesome movie that you should watch. And Oppenheimer here is actually really good too, if you just like, yeah, I'm watching.

Pocahontas was good. Yeah, I don't know what I mean. Bill and Ted was good. Yeah. Yeah, and that polka homies was good. It does. I don't mean it. Bill and Ted was good. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's the best version of Lincoln. It's a documentary.

Uh, I think Bill and Ted won, but not the other next one. Bill and Ted, you're fine. Bill and Ted, too, is actually awesome, but it is like not the same as Bill and Ted won. This is the craziest thing for all that bluster about CIA and rogue elements acting on their own from within the government and someone finally having the courage to call it all out in the actual trial, which again, he barely ever attended and did not even conduct the questioning or cross examination of Shaw in no one on Garrison side or any side mentioned the CIA one single fucking time in court for any reason. Even after going

on TV and saying all that stuff, even after all these people going to bat from on television and on radio and stuff, in the actual trial, he did not have the nuts to say the CIA did anything one fucking time. So let that sink in. Because that's the thing about this is it's like there's the JFK assassination which really happened. Then there's this crazy guy in the 60s, late 60s, early 70s who like fucked up everybody's perception of it for real in, in, in not a fictional way in the actual courts of law. And then instead of going with anything that's substantiated, Oliver Stone went with the

crazy guy and picked his story to make into a movie, which is kind of interesting. And I don't mean to disparage Jim Carerson by calling him crazy. I don't think he's crazy in that sense. I agree with Bucleosi in that he dug himself far deep into a hole. He fantasized about going up on stage in court and talking about how he didn't believe in the Warren commission, which I think a lot of people were feeling. You know that dude was having like

furious jerk off sessions at night with him thinking about being on that stand. Do we know that? Fucking hell bring the teeth down. I'm going to be like, oh, yeah, fuck off my butt. I swear to God. Yeah, no, you're right. I think so.

Math is always things that's happening to everyone at all times. Do you think everyone, he's like, he's like, you know, like, babies don't have object permanence where like, you put something behind a blanket and they don't know it exists. If you put something behind a blanket, Mathis automatically thinks it's masturbating. That's called object, it's called object horniness. I'm sure I've ever told object horniness. I love that.

That's so cool. Anyway, the rest of the episode is going to be looking a little more closely at some of these events that may have been somewhat elevated by Oliver Stone's movie version of history through his few separate lenses. And then just like we did earlier with the Kennedy Lincoln booth Oswald stuff, which was thematically perfectly chosen to be the beginning of this episode, if I do say so myself, we'll look more closely at the real facts and see if it changes our mind at all, okay? This is like the grand finale lightning round for JFK part two.

So buckle up suckers because we're about to get, we're about to get meaty, baby. How's that? You want to get meaty? What kind of meat? Don't be, don't not like this. Pork? I don't know. First, let's take a closer look.

I separated this into a couple categories. First, we're gonna take a closer look at some instances in the movie where Stone was extremely charitable about the facts of Garrison's case and kind of sort of hinting that he might be some sort of misunderstood hero. That's the thing we're gonna be talking about first

is Garrison's story, that's named this section. First of all, going back to Garrison weaponizing Clay Shaw's gainus for a second, a big part of the overarching mystery he was trying to spin around Clay Shaw's personal business was that in order to keep himself safely in the closet, while engaging in a lot of these hot, nasty, homosexual, thrill-killing activities that he was talking about.

He was regularly, instead of using his real name, using the alias Clay or Clem Bertrand, instead of Clay Shaw. And a big part of this, dependent on the word of a smooth, talking attorney called Dean Andrews, who is played by John Candy in the movie, who said that he had been contacted on various occasions by Clay Shaw under the name Bertrand in relation to some business involving helping young gay Mexican men to get parole and bonds, as well as possibly contacting him about representing Lee Harvey Oswald at trial while he was in the hospital for like pneumonia or something like that.

He happened to be in the hospital when he got the call. In the movie, there's an exchange between Kevin Costner and John Candy, which is allegedly pulled directly from a real life conversation. So we'll have Jesse be garrison and we'll have Mathis be Andrews. And we'll just give you a nice little snippet of the scene they did now. It'll be just like you're watching the movie. Here it is. It's very short.

It's just two lines. It's easy. If you lie to the grandadjore, as you plan to me, I'm going to charge you with poetry. If I answer that question, if I give you that name, you keep trying to get, and it's goodbye, Dean Andrews. It's boom voyage, Dino. I mean, like permanent. I mean, like a bullet in my head. Yeah. Exactly. It's so funny watching John Candy beino. I mean, like permanent. I mean, like a bullet in my head.

Yeah, exactly. It's so funny watching John Candy be like, I mean, like, permanent. Um, permanent. Oh, I mean, like, permanent. I could have done that. All right. It really is like that.

You like pretty much nailed it. However, that's, so that's from the movie. However, in reality, according to Bugliosi, Andrews was known to exaggerate and make up wacky lies and his story kept changing based on how he was feeling on the day and how conscious he was of getting in trouble for what he was saying. And according to the chief archivists for the national archives of the Kennedy assassination, there's not a single record of that conversation that we just said happening anywhere, almost

like it was made up out of thin air. And eventually, the kind of thing that Dean Andrew started saying, once stuff started getting too real for him, started to match that idea too. He started saying that the call he got from Bertrand or slash Shaw about representing Oswald and court, which he happened to be in the hospital for unrelated reasons. Like I said, happened while he was under sedation and when he was on opiates and that realized, and later he realized there was actually just a call

from his friend, Gene Davis, who needed him to notarize the sale of a car and not represent Lee Harvey Oswald and court. And that to protect Gene's privacy, he told everyone that Gene's name was Clay Bertrand for some reason, which was just the name that he made up. What? Yeah. Well, listen, on opiates, maybe he pierced the veil of our reality and peered into a reality

with him. Yeah. He was being asked to be the lawyer for Leoz, the Harvey Oswald, and when he came down from the opiates, the flap closed and he was back in his reality. That's probably what the flap closed. Yeah, the flap closed. Yeah. a flap closed and he was back in his real. That's probably a flap closed. Yeah, the flap closed. Certainly closed. Yeah.

And in fact, here's a quote from him for Jesse DeReed from June 28, 1967, which he actually gave while testifying in front of the grand jury that they're talking about in this conversation, which kind of just locks this one up. This is the guy who said that they would kill him if he had to tell the truth in the movie. I have never seen this man, how never talk to him. If this case is based on the fact that Clay Shaw is Clay Bertrand, it's a joke. Clay Shaw is now to Clay Bertrand. Yeah, so bang. But I bet you there's people out there being like, well, he had to lie,

because otherwise he was going to get shot in the head. Sure. Literally the opposite thing from get shot in the head. Sure. Literally the opposite thing from what happened in the movie actually happened. Pretty cut and dry. Probably should not have included this man in this movie in this context. And in fact, the same thing goes in a lot of ways for David Ferry who's played by Joe Pesci in the movie. Absolutely, by the way, he's so good as David Ferry.

He's a peacock streaming show with the comedian Pete Davidson. Joe Pescius. Mm hmm. I would watch. I would watch Joe Pesci and literally anything. Yeah. No, it's like I'll show what them on peacock streaming. Yeah.

And yeah, like I said, the same thing goes for David Fairy, especially just because the claims being made about him in the movie really are that much crazier than the claims being made about Dean Andrews. Casting him as like an angry, erratic, overly obsessed, Kennedy hating domestic terrorist and revolutionary who worked indirectly for the CIA through his contract, the quote, fiercely rice went right wing former FBI agent Guy Bannister, who in the movie is played by Ed Asner, amazingly. What? I love that.

Mario? No, no, he's not Mario. He's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's

a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's man, that's a long time ago. In the movie, there's tons of footage of banister and fairy and Oswald working together on very specific high level operations in New Orleans, involving weapons trafficking and proliferation of manipulative political propaganda, as well as lavishly delicious eyes wide shut parties attended by fairy and Shaw, where they wear face paint and elaborate costumes. Bob Hoskins, Bob Hoskins, by the way. Fuck, and he's also Roger Rabbit guy. I was wrong in both times anyway. But there's literally even a full scene in the movie where they have fairy and Garrison in a hotel room together, where fairy is like confessing to everything.

He's expressing remorse for getting involved. He's saying Jack Ruby work for the mob. He's saying that not even any of the she's like Don't the shooters don't even know who did it. Don't you get it? It's like one of the most famous scenes in the movie, right? In reality, the only communication that anybody had with Fairy while he was staying in this hotel room Which he was only staying in because Garrison had basically led a media circus to his door the only common Communication that was done between the DA's office

and ferry during that time was with a DA investigator, Louis Ivon, who just came by on one of the nights to let ferry know that if he needed anything, he just had to ask. So in real life, he said, hey man, if you need anything, just let me know. We got you covered. And in the movie, he said, I did it.

I'm sorry for doing it. You don't know how high up this goes. The shooters don't even know who did it. I regret it. Jack Ruby worked for the mob. Like it's absolutely insane. Wow, incredible. Yeah. Also a big deal in is made in the movie about the address for Guy Bannister's office in New Orleans being just around the corner from an address on leaflets. Oswald had been seen distributing in the area and sort of like to the point that it really made them two entrances into like one building, but around the corner from each other from two different sides where you just go upstairs and you're in Bannister's office, but it's actually just like one place. But this unfortunately simply just is not true, right? Like in terms of Oswald, like yes,

some of his pamphlets did have this address of this building on it, but he was never really there that often and he some of his pamphlets didn't have that address and had other addresses on them. And on frontline in 1993, they discovered that there was no way to get from one address to the other without exiting the building, going around and outside, exiting the second floor to the sidewalk, walking around the corner and going in the office. So like, the idea of they literally go to this place in the movie and they point it and they're like, look, it's connected. They just go to each other and in real life, they're not. It's just crazy. None of the three, Shaw, Fairy, or Oswald ever acted like they knew or even recognized

each other. There's no reliable testimony or evidence anywhere placed them together. No one ever thought to ask Oswald about Ferry and Shaw when they had him in custody because there was no concept that they were ever linked to each other from any witness or friend or relative. And when asked Clay Shaw and David Ferry both vehemently denied knowing each other with Ferry repeatedly offering to take a polygraph or even a truth serum and denying and denying and denying it all until the day that he died, which was in 1967.

Let's be fair though, polygraph tests are fucking worthless. Right, but he was like, fucking test me, Like fucking, yeah, do it. Like, at this time, opinion were different on those things. And he was like, no, I don't know this fucking guy. Let's go, you know. And speaking of his death, Ferries found dead in his home in 1967 on the morning of February 22nd. And by 3 p.m., an autopsy had determined

Ferries had died of natural causes, or more specifically, a quote, rupture of Barry Aneurysm of circle of willis with massive hemorrhage, aka a circle of blood vessels on the underside of the brain touching the base of his skull. So that's what happened to him. He had like a cluster aneurysm in his head. According to the movie version, two masked men came to him in the night and physically forced him to swallow some kind of drug which caused his death. But in reality, there were zero signs of violence anywhere on his body when they found him.

And though he did have high blood pressure, his blood sample tested negative for any, quote, alcohol, barbituates, cyanide, heavy metals, or caustic agents, not to mention that if there were intruders that night, they would have had to have completely snuck past Faerie's 24-hour surveillance detail, which had no evidence anywhere of any masked men, anywhere arriving. So they just show it. In the movie, two guys coming to kill him didn't happen. In reality, Faerie had actually been looking feeble in the days looking leading up to his death,

limping, and uh, he was seen barely even capable of climbing the stairs leading to his apartment. Um, also four days before his death, he was in the FBI field office, complaining that all the slander about him that he was getting from Garrison was making him physically ill and it was giving him extreme headaches. He was literally complaining to the FBI about that. Oh, man. So he had days of warning to go to like a doctor and get a cot. Yeah. And the one weird thing where the two type notes

that were found next to his body, which I've mentioned before, which might point to the whole thing being some kind of planned suicide. One of the notes is just kind of like poetry. The other one is kind of like some message to his boyfriend that's just kind of like, they could just as easily be interpreted as like the last words of somebody who believe they were about to die. And not necessarily suicide notes because the notes don't say like, and that is why I'm

going to kill myself or something like that. Right. I mean, like you said, he's had been having symptoms for four days. If he didn't bother, now he's having a day where maybe he can't even get up and it's like something's happening. Yeah. Somebody saw him. Somebody saw him like 4 a.m. the day before he died.

He was naked under a sheet. He looked like shit. Like, it was not like he was fine. And then he was gone, like definitely not. Yeah, no. And Garrison, on the other hand, at the same time, was telling the press that Ferry killed himself because he couldn't take the heat, which as I mentioned earlier, only led him to double down straight into Crazy Town.

And speaking of Crazy Town, in the movie, Garrison finds out about this whole plot in the first place, thanks to a guy we've mentioned before, Jack Martin, who in the movie is played by the iconic Jack lemon, right? Just like classic old author from, you know, movies about Maryland and Roan shit. Oh, yeah, that's by the way that reminds me. The last thing on that list from Snopes about the Kennedy Lincoln thing is that it's like a month before Kennedy was killed. There a month before Lincoln was killed. He was in Monroe, Maryland. And one month before Kennedy was killed, he was in

Maryland, Monroe. But actually, that's not true because Maryland and Ro died one year before that. So even that's fake. Yeah. God. So let's go back to Jack Martin, this guy from the beginning of the JK movie. The reason of reasons didn't need that last one. Like you're gonna take the conspiracy theorist you can kick it one off the list.

That one's for the boys. That one's for the boys. That one's for the boys. Yeah, so now we got Jack Martin, who's played by Jack Lamman. This is like the inciting incident of the movie. He's seen in the movie. It's just sort of like nice, well-meaning,

but like tragically alcoholic sidekick to Ed Asner's Guy Bannister. He meets up with Garrison at the racetrack and tells him that it was in Guy Bannister's office that Shaw and Ferry and Oswald were always hanging out. This is like, in the movie, is like the core reason why Garrison even starts to care about this because he gets this report like right after the death of Kennedy that this guy is like Guy Bannister

whipped the shut up me because I said something wrong that he didn't like about the assassination and he like turned on me right something like that. But in reality Martin's testimony was so unworthy that they didn't even use it in the eventual trial because Martin had a clinically diagnosed character disorder. He had spent significant time in two mental wards and two different states. He had on multiple occasions falsely claimed to be an FBI agent himself, and had only made up the story as a means of getting revenge against an unrelated slight against him by a banister. And in fact, here's a quote about the guy from mathis to read from New Orleans DA investigator, Lynn Loisel, who was asked.

Loisel? They asked her if, if this guy was, was one of their like confident, uh, confidential informers. No, no, no, you, that's saccarotus. Believe you, me, anything that he said, 9, 9% of it was checked out to be false, you know, made up lies, jealousy, everything else. Oh boy, man, we will be torn to pieces, but not like this. Yeah. So this dude who's like the key guy who like set this all off is actually just like completely unreliable. And it's like makes perfect sense why him saying that wouldn't make everyone in the city like go look into it, you know what I mean? It's just not what happened the way that they said it in the movie and it's not even like a dramatic retelling. It's just like not the same. It's not they're using

things that happen and twisting them completely. And finally, before heading back to Deely Plaza for the first time in a while, we have to talk for a second about a guy that I mentioned earlier and twisting them completely. And finally, before heading back to Deely Plaza for the first time in a while, we have to talk for a second about a guy that I mentioned earlier called Perry Russo. In reality, Perry Russo was meant to be, quote, Jim Garrison's star witness at Clay Shaw's trial, okay? The idea was that Russo's testimony would be the thing

that tied the whole thing up in a knot, placing Shaw, Ferry, and Oswald in Ferry's apartment sometime in September of 1963, talking about their shared desire to kill Kennedy for their wild gay reasons or whatever they're doing, right? This was his like big gay Ferry overtakes him. This was his main strategy. This was Garrison's like main Golden Boy in this trial. Perry was a local insurance salesman who was a friend of David Ferries and had only come forward after he'd heard about Ferries' death to help out where he could in the investigation and be interviewed and stuff. So he just showed up and was like, I know this guy. I'll talk about it. And

the problem was this guy's story was pretty spotty and inconsistent. And he started to make these wild claims. He'd be like, I remember this guy who was like this roommate and they'd be like, is it this guy? Is it Lee Harvey Oswald? And he'd be like, yeah, I think so. You know, like stuff like that. And so after they talked to him for a while, they only could get like small bits of things

that may have been related. And he didn't start speaking clearly and in depth about any sort of conspiracy until after he had been hypnotized and given sodium pentathol by Jim Garrison, which, you know, and okay, so hold on, hold on, it wasn't just hypnotism, they also drugged him. They give him sodium pentathol, truth serum. And, and there was no, and so Jim Garrison couldn't bring him to trial without admitting that. So it was almost useless to him, not to mention almost certainly completely made up.

Um, but yeah, this guy sounds like a reply guy. Remember back like reply videos on YouTube? I think he just, I think he just showed up and got like kind of manipulated into doing drugs and just like tripping out. Okay. And saying whatever. That's probably true. Yeah. I mean, we do remember the guy on opioids did think he was getting asked to be Lee Harvey Oswald's lawyer.

So, right. So, but here's this, this to me is the craziest thing of all. Jesse, have you seen Jay? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, Stone gets around this in the movie by just not having Russo in the movie. Russo doesn't exist in the world of the movie.

And instead, he invents a new gay sex worker character who's in jail, who's called Willio Keefe, who is played hilariously and extremely memorably by Kevin Bacon in the movie, but is a guy who is completely imaginary, comes invented whole cloth from nowhere, only serves to weaponize clay, shaw's, gainess, even more in a completely made up way, which is just all of her stone just riffing at this point. And he gives Garrison all this information. So, you know, and that guy wasn't on sodium pentathol, so it's a lot more trustworthy. It's like a huge scene in the movie

and it like moves the plot forward and gets you excited and it turns out it's based on a guy who was hypnotized and drugged. Like one of those rag magazine titles, the Gays, Kill, JFK, question mark, like with the giant red circle. Homosexual thrill killing? Yeah.

Who's next on their list? But yeah, that's how it was done. That's the that's the case in the movie. Those are the people that they chose to show in the movie and to make their case around were those people. Pretty easy, pretty easy. But now let's talk about how many bullets Oliver Stone says were fired in Deely Plaza because I think that people are kind of excited to be talking a little bit more about ballistics and trajectories, I think, than the politics. I don't know why. But we're here now. In a segment that I like to call the shots. I'm calling the shots.

All right. Tons of people in the movie are shown near the beginning, talking about the fact that they saw all kinds of shots coming from behind the fence on the grassy knoll. But none are shown saying the shots came from the book depository, even though that's exactly where most people who said they saw anything at all saw the shots. And indeed, despite everything, that is the most likely scenario. So purposely saying the opposite is true in the movie. And to exemplify this in the movie, uh, Stone actually brings out Jack Lemons frequent

collaborator and partner Walter Mathau, uh, also in the movie for one scene as Senator, uh, Russell B. Long from Louisiana to say that none of their three experts could ever make the shot that Oswald did when they did the investigation. However, in reality, one of the three experts actually did just make the shot and he did it better than Oswald did. That's actually I remember that. That's a memory. Like I didn't learn that by watching the movie, but I think I either heard or read about it somewhere. Wow. Yeah, I don't know why. I just see somebody like that. Yeah. Sorry. It's just in the, in the, it's like the opposite of what's true. It's not just like smoothed

out. It's just, they're just fully saying the opposite. Also, there's the point where Garrison's assistant says, quote, try to hit a moving target at 88 yards through a heavy foliage. No way. But why would he? Yards is not that far first. Like, why would he say that when that's exactly the shot that hits in Zapruder frame 313, especially when Kennedy is in a position on the street where any obstruction is gone by frame 210, you know, of the Zapura frame. And actually, here's the film, if you guys want to see it real quick one more time, if you need to refresher. But for you listeners out there, it's not worth giving you a link because they get taken

down all the time. So just Google it. But do not do that. Listener, unless you're ready to see a dude get shot in the head right in front of you with no censorship because that's exactly what this movie is. So don't do that. Yeah. I've seen so much worse.

So I'm fine with this shit. Um, also, there he is. Hey, how's it going? Yeah. So you can see he's like wide out in the open. And if you go back there to that place in Texas and you stand there and you look at where the tree was and you do a little, you know, trajectory of the shots, you'll see that where he is, it's not, it's not, it's not blocked by trees. Um, which is also like, you can even see him getting hit by the very first bullet when

everything, like his arms go up and they get like locked in place. That's when the first shot hit his spine, but yeah, actually kill him. Right. Exactly. And also, though in the movie, Oswald is described as quote, at best a medium shot or no good, he was actually a qualified marine sharpshooter. And though in the movie, they say that the HSCA, which is the house select committee on assassinations, the 70s, one, even though in the movie, they say that that committee found

that it takes 2.3 seconds to pull the bolt, reload, re-aim and fire again. In reality, it only took 1.66 seconds, according to the HSCA, when firing the weapon like the actual hole, last extra second. Yeah, because Oswald didn't use a site. He used the open sites on the gun, like the iron sites. He didn't like site through a scope. He just used the iron sites. So it only

takes one point six six seconds so that's within six seconds uh another bowl playing the movie makes about the shooting involves quote three teams of professional riflemen 10 to 12 men in total who used a man faking a seizure to slow traffic and a man holding an umbrella to signal the shot whom we've already debunked before uh and then hit the motorcade with a quote, triangulation of fire from not just the book depository, but also the Dal text building across the way and behind the fence on the grassy knoll. Right?

So that's what the movie says happens. But Bugliosi counters this with a couple great points, right? First of all, if this is true, why were only three cases found in the entire Dele plus, if there were all these other people shooting, there's only three cases found. And how come of the 170 people, there were 190 people there,

170 people said they heard shots, and 136 of those 170 said that they heard three shots. And 136 of those 170 said that they heard three shots. So the vast majority of people said they heard three shots. And if it was a real quote, Turkey shoot, like Garrison says to the jury in the movie, why wasn't he like annihilated by gunfire by professional snipers rather than three shots being fired where one shot misses the whole fucking car, right? Yeah. Doesn't make sense. But just in case you thought that Bugliosi wasn't still full of his own type of venom,

here's Jesse with an even more damning quote about the multiple shooter's theory right here. This is real. This is hilarious. Do you know how many heard six shots, Oliver? Are you ready? Just one. And that was Jesse Price. But even if Price were sober thinking as a judge, if 136 people in Dele Plaza that day

heard three shots and only one heard six, whom is it more reasonable to believe? Everyone, except apparently you, Oliver, would say that 136 people. How did you come up with your six shots, Oliver? What inside information did you have that no one else has? I want to jump on that point and be like, that is still happening today. Conversations with people I'm having out here about the vaccine stuff, which is still ramping out here in Texas. It's great. And here in, in like thought of like they use, they use doctors, they point to doctors,

but when asked like, what is the, first of all, who's the doctor? And are they a virologist or are they like the doctor of like for kids, a pediatrician or something else? And then on top of that, you're like, okay, so we've got 10 of these doctors maybe saying this compared to how many hundreds or maybe thousands of virologists over the years who have produced studies. Why are we choosing the cherry picking those?

I'm not going with where the science is going. Because people look for facts that align with their own world beliefs rather than the truth, because the truth is hard, dude. It's the same thing. You just, it's the modern day comparison is still right there in front of you. The 100% don't talk about politics, bro. We're talking about JFK right now. What do you want?

I just love how he's on a first name basis with Oliver Stone in his book like that. Hey, Oliver. What do you think, Oliver? Can you tell me? What do you think? How many shots, Oliver? I love that. Uh, but speaking of misrepresenting information, probably the most famous scene in the movie

is the scene at the trial breaking down the magic bullet that goes through Kennedy turning right in mid-air and then turning left hit Governor Contnally in the movie. The bullets. Everybody knows the scene. We watched it, I think, or we went over it at least once before already. But actually, according to the book, the movie just moves connolly slightly out of the way to make the shot seem impossible.

And really, if you place connolly as you've seen in the Zapruder film down into the left in front of the president, the bullet just kind of, if you line that all up, the bullet just kind of goes in a straight line. It's very clear that it's not a magic bullet and that it's just a regular bullet

on a normal trajectory, which is crazy. Like they just like made, they just like the key, like the linchpin and the trial scene that like they parodied in Seinfeld is just like based on like, ah, but we just let's move more here to make it more interesting. Um, yeah, it's crazy. I'll take, man, that's literally all it takes and maybe, maybe, maybe, I mean, Ben and Fit of the doubt, maybe. There's a lot of choices creatively he's making here that make me go, why? But it's even better than for the doubt that he maybe didn't realize it, but something

is such a, like, something so small and have such a profound impact on people's opinions and reality. It's hard to prepare for that kind of thing. Exactly. Guys, it's like, I don't know, it's almost like the beginning of this episode going through John, that John looks booth and Lee Harvey Oswald and Lincoln and Ken's almost like the beginning of this episode going through John, the John looks booth and Lee Harvey Oswald and Lincoln and can almost like. It was some sort of setup about how slightly changing facts.

Can make the same completely. How did you structure your structure? I think it's. I'm structured. So I think of this stuff. I'm not a guy's man. I got to support them on Patreon. I I think of this stuff. Guys, it's a little bit out of guys. Man, I got to support them on Patreon. I got to get all that Patreon money. I'm a Patreon-man.

It's so smart. Every time I log into Patreon, I get one more IQ point. Oh, nice. I wish I got that. I saw on Reddit, there was a thread that said, what's the dumbest thing you've ever heard somebody say? And they said, oh, my son has a high IQ, intellectual quality.

Nice. Very fun, that's awesome. Uh, and finally, uh, in the shots category, speaking of traveling bullets, let's talk quickly about commission exhibit number 399, the supposedly, quote, pristine bullet that was found on gun governor, commonly stretcher at Parkland Hospital. As if according to many conspiracy theory, theory people, it had been intentionally planted there by someone, right? They found this totally pristine bullet that doesn't look like it traveled through a body,

but yet it's there on the stretcher as if somebody was like, here's the bullet that you're missing. Here you go, this will support your theory. In real life, there's not actually any evidence or testimony that somebody planted a bullet that struck Kennedy and Connolly anywhere. But all of her stone just kind of goes rogue, if you will, and shows it happening anyway. They just show a guy coming in an actual figure and placing it on the stretcher. So I ask you, are you still as convinced about there being a conspiracy as you were before we started talking about this?

I mean, it just entirely depends on what the conspiracy is. Right. I mean, like, this is a conspiracy. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But there's so many conspiracies around JFK that, you know, it's impossible to say that anything's debunked because it'll never be debunked because even if they literally came out and gave us footage and information

and pages and pages of facts, there would still be conspiracies. You're 100% right about that. And that is, I think, the tragedy of this whole thing. But now we're gonna move into a segment where we look at all the people that say crazy things in the movie, like specific people that they choose to focus on for their testimony and stuff like that, in a segment that I'm going to call, Extra Witnesses. Witnesses that are extra, you get it? It's a double-on-chondra. First things first. The movie, the movie

practically opens with this wild scene of a woman screaming as she's thrown from a car, pleading for help, saying that she knew Oswald and Ruby and screaming that quote, They're gonna kill Kennedy. Please call somebody. Oh fuck. It's like that type of thing. Of course.

This woman is supposed to be Melba Christine Mark Marcadez, who along with 14 other aliases that she has is sometimes known by and also credited in the movie as Rose Charamy, which is a pretty well-known name among JFK heads. In reality, though, Charamy was on drugs when she was found, and she wasn't thrown from a car. She was hit by a car driven by a guy named Frank Odom. That's such a dead, I mean, that change is everything, even if she wasn't on drugs. Yeah, she was hit by a car driven by a guy called Frank Odom while she was hitchhiking her way back home

from Florida to Texas. And this guy actually stopped and helped her get to the authorities when it happened. It wasn't like a hit and run and she wasn't like bloody from a car like it looks in the movie. He just like took her to the police. Uh, and an hour after she was brought into the station, she was totally naked.

She was scratching herself. She was climbing the walls, like withdrawal symptoms, you know, crazy hardcore withdrawal symptoms. And once they got her into a straight jacket and started driving her to the hospital for two hours in the car, she said that she calmed down and she said that she was with some Italian-looking guys who got drunk and

gotten to a fight and got them all thrown out onto the road where she started hitching. And when asked what she was going to do in Dallas when she got there, she said that actually she was going to get some money, get her baby, and that she was going to be the one who was going to kill Kennedy and only changed the story to a wee and still not even a day until her HSCA deposition in 1978. And she didn't actually know Oswald or Ruby like she claimed. And not only did she not see them at Ruby's Club, the pink door like she said,

but Ruby did not own a club called the pink door at all. That's not a real place. There's more lies in this movie. And speaking of nightclubs, let's talk about the singer who also said Ruby introduced her to Oswald and Ferriott is actual place in Dallas, the carousel club. Kind of an interesting little tidbit maybe for someone with an open mind, you know, if you're willing to hear all comers. But the Warren commission never found any merit to any of these types of claims. And strangely, the only woman making this claim, Beverly Oliver, wasn't seen as a credible

witness either because she didn't even show up until 1970. And back then, she was working a totally separate JFK angle of actually being the babushka lady, who we've already covered in a previous episode. She claimed to be using a camera that hadn't been invented at the time of the assassination when she, when she came forward. Okay, but okay, but what if she was a time traveler then? You know what she actually said? What if?

You know what she actually fucking said? She said, I can't remember the name, but I do remember it was an experimental camera that only I had. Amazing. Incredible. Oof. Before switching back, so she, she did that babushka lady thing for a while, then she switched the Jack Ruby angle for a while, and then ultimately switched back to the babushka lady angle when

she wrote her autobiography Nightmare in Dallas in 1994, where she actually said that she was a quote, paid technical consultant on the movie and has a picture of her and Oliver Stone hugging on set. Isn't that pretty? Dude, it's, it's, it's not often you get to test your likes, an A, B kind of test on your story in the public before you write your book, which one ended up being a better one. Yeah, you know, smart girl. Up next, we got Vincent Denofrio, Kingpin himself as Lee Bowers. Bowers in the movie tells the Warren commission that he saw a quote, flash of light and smoke behind the picket fans on the grassy knoll, even though in real life, he never started saying anything like that until

he started talking to JFK investigator Mark Lane, who was one of the people who came down to help out Garrison originally, two years after the commission had already wrapped. So the idea that he was there on the day saying he saw this stuff, it's just not true. He didn't say it for years. Similar thing happened with Jean Hill, who shown in the movie 20 minutes after the shooting, saying she saw a flash in the bushes of light with a puff of smoke and someone who look like Jack Ruby, quote, running from the direction of the Texas schoolbook depository towards the grassy gnaw. I don't know why Jack Ruby is there.

I'm imagining it is like. It was things like old school comedy from like the 50s are just like bang and just like smoke lingering on a black and white screen as someone runs off cartoonishly in the background. In the movie in the movie it's like a clip of her being like I saw I saw it and then it cuts to like a clip of a guy running and like it's like it literally shows it, but it's like, yeah. So she said all that stuff. Later, they even show her being intimidated by some scary like plane clothes officer guy. And in black style. He's like, don't tell anybody about this. Forget what you saw. How many shots did you hear? Three, right? Three. Right. In reality,

she didn't say any of this stuff's about seeing flashes of light or any of that until 1989, which was 26 years later, not 20 minutes later. And in the movie, you know, human memory is infallible. And in the movie, the character explains this by saying, quote, when I read my testimony is published by the Warren commission, it was fabrication from start to finish. Even though the real Gene Hill just has not said hinted at or implied anything like this. She's just crazy. Thank God. According to the movie, this testimony about Jack Ruby being there on the scene in Deely

Plaza that day was substantiated by Julia Mercer, who also said she saw him. Except she said in the movie that she saw him in the driver's seat of a large truck that was parked out on the street on Elm Street in Deely Plaza. I was holding up traffic and that she saw somebody else take a rifle out of the back of the truck and walk up the hill towards the grassy no. So this would almost be kind of creepy, right? If it wasn't widely known to have been a construction truck with three men in it, all of whom I had confirmed identities on the day, and which all were confirmed to have left the scene in the truck together before the shooting started. So it would be scary if that wasn't the case. But also in reality, I think that the thing would be a lot more convincing if she had even said that she saw Ruby. She actually said that she saw Oswald in the truck, but it seems

like Oliver Stone just kind of changed it to make it match the other story so that it was more compelling. She was like, I saw Oswald and he was like, ah, you saw Ruby. Got it. Pretty crazy. Yeah. So that's the end of that segment. And now it's finally time for the last question in a segment that I like to call threat from within. Is it really possible that a threat came from inside the government and that it eventually ended up taking the life of a sitting president? And other than Oliver Stone just kind of saying

that this happened, why do we think this? The first piece of evidence that anybody in the good questions that people should always ask before you believe something. First piece of evidence that anyone in the government knew anything about this, at least as far as the movie is concerned, is the idea that an FBI clerk in New Orleans was on duty November 17, 1963, one week before the shooting and received a teletype from FBI HQ warning that somebody might be planning on killing Kennedy and Dallas. But that quote, nothing was done as a result of this happen. In reality, the FBI clerk didn't come forward until 1968, which was five years later,

some dude called William S. Walter. And after investigating all 59 field offices and more than 50 employees working at the New Orleans one, no evidence of any teletype ever coming through at that time was ever found. So that's just another one that's just, is not true. Another wild claim from the movie is that, quote, on November 22nd at 12.34 PM,

the entire telephone system went dead in Washington for a solid hour to keep the wrong stories from spreading if anything went wrong with the assassination plan. Sure, when the president gets killed in early 1960s, there might be a little congestion or busy signals here and there on the phones because there's only so many operators, right? But yeah, and this, this, this wasn't just a DC thing. This was also true in New York and Boston, probably Los Angeles, you know, big cities. But for example, when Sam Donaldson interviewed Oliver Stone in 1992 on ABC's Primetime, he told him that, quote,

I made a dozen calls during that time from the Capitol to the White House and elsewhere in Washington. The telephone system wasn't out, and Stone just looks back and says, The telephone system wasn't out and Stone just looks back and says, I'll have to look into that. Same thing with the idea of articles showing up in New Zealand about Oswald complete with pictures, just hours after the assassination, fingering him as the only suspect. In the movie, this is presented as evidence of stories being planted in the media, similar to the way the CIA and KGB have fought propaganda wars in the past to control public opinion. But the counter argument is that the stories really did come out and that it wasn't hard to get this information because believe it or not, even in an ancient time like the

60s, people still had phones and information travels pretty much as fast as people can talk. And in his defense, Stone basically just does the metaphorical equivalent of shrugging. He just like, no, no, that happened Um, and really that's the whole problem is that stone Really never has to answer for gaps in his knowledge, right? Uh, and this never happens more egregiously than when Donald Donald Sutherland shows up in the film Uh, and delivers an almost 20-minute long monologue to garrison in character as the completely

100% made up government deep to throat type figure X Which don't even freely admits like Garrison never went to Washington and met anyone He went on nightline and he was like, no, that was just made up. I just did all that and A lot of what he said is just largely based on the sole testimony of the largely discredited Air Force Colonel Fletcher Prouty, Prouty, who never even actually met Garrison in real

life. And he basically says Donald Sutherland as this character basically says all the same stuff that I said to you guys last episode, but in a little bit more cliff notes, he have a way than I did it. And that's the, that's the motive for why the CIA and the military industrial complex have like want to kill the president. And then according to X, a made up character, just from the movie, that's why they did it. But problem is, as this quote, mathis will read for us now shows, the logic of

this simply doesn't make sense. And once you realize that, it doesn't really matter how much you think about it, because it's never going to become more likely that what happened happened in this situation. After all, what's the big deal about joining in a conspiracy to murder the president of the United States? If any reader of this book were on the Joint Chiefs of Staff or a corporate leader in the president's policies were going to interfere with your objectives or cut into your profits, you wouldn't think twice about conspiring to murder him, would you? More seriously, even if we imagine the unimaginable that the Joint Chiefs of Staffs and leaders of American industry were crazy enough to be willing to murder Kennedy because of his

plan to end the Cold War, would they be so crazy as to not at least first try to beat him at the ballot box by putting all their money, power, and influence behind his opponent when he came up re-election in just one year? Yeah, right. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's like, yeah, well, yes, I mean, I can see that point. Why would you risk murdering the president when you could just beat him in an election? Yeah, or, you know, or you says, at least try to before you start going to the murder world.

Like what was like rapidly about to happen that they needed to like stop? We already showed that Kennedy kind of was stuck supporting the Vietnam War, even though he wishes he didn't have to, right? And we already showed that CIA was budding heads, not just with Kennedy, but with everybody. And that's just kind of how it was, right? And we already showed that CIA was budding heads, not just with Kennedy, but with everybody. And that's just kind of how it was, right? It's not like they had a war against each other, right? And Kennedy didn't dismantle the CIA, like he said, he was going

to. He just like gave it some accountability. So, you know, I don't know. It wasn't like he distended one or hurt anyone. And in reality, in reality, though I set out with hope in my heart that at least some of what was here was worth considering a serious evidence. In the end, it just kind of seems like all of our stones, JFK movie is nothing more than some kind of strange world history fanfic by a really good director with some really bad ideas about the point

of teaching people accurate history. And people should quite honestly consider it fiction when they watch it, though I do think it's a pretty sick movie. And finally, to wrap this all up for the day, we're going to have two quotes from Jack Ruby one after the other. One is going to be from the movie version of Jack Ruby, and it's going to be read by Jesse. And one of the quotes is going to be from the real historical Jack Ruby from the movie version of Jack Ruby and it's going to be read by Jesse. And one of the

quotes is going to be from the real historical Jack Ruby from the war and we're war and report and that's going to be read by Mathis. So we're going to just listen to both of these and then that's going to close us out. We can talk about, we can talk about a little bit more at the end, but here you go, Jesse. Mr. Chief Justice, do you understand that I cannot tell the truth here in Dallas that there are people here who do not want me to tell the truth? My life is in danger. If I am eliminated, there won't be any way of knowing any bit of the truth. And consequently, a whole new form of government is going to take over the country. So that's the movie version of Jack Ruby and here's the War and Report version for Mathis.

There was no conspiracy. I am as innocent regarding any conspiracy as any of you gentleman in this room. No one else requested me to do anything. I never spoke to anyone about attempting to do anything. No subversive organization gave me any idea, no underworld person made any effort to contact me. It all happened that Sunday morning. And with that, my good friends, JFK 2, the Oliver Stone is done. Thank you for watching all of our stuff. Chronicles of meonia, special ghost crossover, special side story in the mini so this week at patreon.com slash shulmanodipod before we carry on with the mystery of the tower hotel. Next time I do an

episode in my eight H order, it's going to be the one using the keyword hidden. I'll see you there. Thank you for listening before we go. Yeah, just before we go. Sure. While we're on the topic of movies and based on our true story. Yeah, just before we go. Yeah, sure while we're on the topic of movies and Based on a true story. Yeah, real quick real quick just like What I go through something like I just think about trying to think of like movies that people wouldn't know right here So the imitation game right the movie about Alan Turing. Yes If you saw that movie

like Most of that's made up in the movie. The big reveal that the machine, right? The code break machines named after his childhood love that's not true. The villain in that movie, the guy who doesn't like him, that's not true. I mean, we could go to the movie, oh, I don't know. The Revenant, where Leonardo Caprio fights a bear.

That's not true. In fact, it's based most likely off of like a crappy 1825 newspaper article about the story. Um, you could go to, I don't know, the movie Captain Phillips. Where in that, you know, I'm the Captain now. That whole scene, apparently Captain Phillips wasn't really that heroic. His crew kind of hated him. He was kind of a dick, right? Like you go to the movie Amadeus, great film

about Amadeus Mozart and Salieri being like enemies. That's probably made up. Yeah, I'm with you. I understand what you're saying. Like Braveheart, right? That's probably made up. Yeah, I, I, I'm with you. I understand what you're saying. Moat like bright like Braveheart, right? That's definitely made up. That whole movie. Can I use it?

Braveheart's not real. Uh, in hilariously in video game world, too, uh, if this is, this is not a spoiler or anything, but for Baldur's Gate, it's in the early access thing. At one point, you come across a bar, who is writing the story of a fight you just had against some goblins, and he's asking you for details. And as you're telling them to him, he starts flourishing on them at the very end. And he goes, and was the dragon with them bronze or silver? And you're like, there wasn't a dragon.

And he goes, oh, my boy, that every story benefits from a dragon. Right. And that's just what it feels like. Like that, like just it doesn't matter because it keeps the people in real and throw. There is one I want to read to you just because it's so, so good. Um, hopefully for the, for the elder millennials out there, you remember the film Cool Runnings. Oh, baby. Yeah.

I've seen Cool Runnings. Yeah. Yeah. So while it is based on a true story, Cool Runnings took a lot of creative license. So first off, yeah, there was no coach. Right. There was no guy. They weren't failed sprinters, but they were recruited by the army by two Americans who then like got

these guys from the army interested in it and doing the Olympics. They weren't outcast. They were actually like, probably everybody rose at the Olympics. Yeah, yeah, they weren't close to winning at all. They were just kind of like fun to have around like that's I mean Movies do that that's true. You're gonna get any of your information from movies No, that most of the time when it says based on a true story it is not I think that I think the difference with JFK specifically is that all those other movies the director didn't go on a press tour Around the world for 25 years saying that everything that he in the movie that is completely based on falsehoods is like actually the real story.

That's not what the history books is telling you and the history is written by the winners. And I think that I'm willing to watch cool runnings and have a good time and know at the end that it's not true and not have it affect world events. But I think with JFK, you know,, I think I'm mostly passionate about this now because I got so deep into this theory craft is this world of JFK conspiracy in the first place. But it's it's hard not to be when you start, especially when you start to see the reality of everything. The damage done is by this movie to actual discourse about this assassination is almost a kill shot. So just remember that and patreon.com slash shamanani pod and I love you guys and more JF case

suit before we go. I got I got a yank it from you one more time. Hey, we're going to be I don't think we've announced it officially yet, but we and by me and me and Alex Jesse won't be there and special guest and yes, and special guest in SGS and other stuff are going to be at Indy Popcorn at the end of August, August 26. I think somewhere around there, the last week in of August. If you, I'm told the tickets are selling out super fast for the con.

So if you wanted to grab it while you can, because we're going to be doing a Chilimino Lai there. And if you're in Chicago and you can't go to this, Jesse's gonna be doing coxing Crandor alive up in Chicago at the same weekend. We're sold out. I'll need you. Never mind. You can be there.

You can be outside the venue and wait for them. And I sure want to take it, except fun, but I'll need it. And what else there? I don't need fights. And next episode, boys, it's HH Holmes. Oh, shit. So we'll see you guys next week with a brand new episode. We're off the Patreon, as Alex said.

Alex, huge commend on that. That was fucking these two-part work were super good. A lot of them. Right, right down of the movie. Yeah, we'll be back next week. Thanks guys. Goodbye. Bye.

Hi. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Triluminati podcast. Yeah. It's always on one of your hosts. Hello everybody welcome back to the Jaluminati podcast. It's always on one of your hosts Mike Martin joined by the... I don't know who they are! There's two! What? Karen's Hill and Bud Spencer. Oh! Neo and Trinity. Oh! I don't understand and I probably never will let me just tell you right now that there's two

Beyond Kennedy and Clare You'll tell you I think he literally has looked up famous duos Cheech and chaw and he's been going through the list ever since I'm trying to dig deep Which one of you is uh Dick Powell? I want to lose, I want to lose I want to lose, I'm one turn, I'm one turn Hello everybody, welcome back to the Jaluminati podcast As always, I'm one of your hosts, Mike Mark and joined by Alex and Jesse But it's always up one of your hosts, Mike Martin, joined by Alex and Jesse. Like a shooting star across the sky that's actually a UFO. Thanks for watching!