Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 221 - False Prophets of the Modern Day

Episode Date: October 1, 2023

Jesse breaks down cult mentality and the ease in which someone can fall into it. LIVE SHOW TICKETS - https://www.ticketmaster.com/event/09005F2C08F050E2 Patreon - http://www.patreon.com/chilluminatipod MERCH - http://www.theyetee.com/collections/chilluminati Special thanks to our sponsors this episode - EVERYONE AT HTTP://PATREON.COM/CHILLUMINATIPOD Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - http://www.youtube.com/user/superbeardbros Editor - DeanCutty http://www.twitter.com/deancutty Art Commissioned by - http://www.mollyheadycarroll.com Theme - Matt Proft End song - POWER FAILURE - https://soundcloud.com/powerfailure Video - http://www.twitter.com/digitalmuppet

Hello everybody and welcome back to the Chilimina Di Podcast episode 221 as always I'm one of your host Mike Martin today joined by the Andy Dick and Carrot Top of LA. Guessing likes. Oh, I'm Carrot Top. I'm Carrot Top. I'm Carrot Top. I'm Carrot Top. Oh. That's just because I don't want to be Andy Dick. That is not. I don't want to be Andy Dick Either. No, you know what? The dresser talks.

Yeah. The two, the two caretops of LA, Andy Dick and Alex Fossil get out of the UK for a little bit, you know. Think I get that. Cool. That's where you went. Thanks, pal. It's great because they're absolutely not a duo in the

United States. No, not at all. They're just two random comedians. Just one really jacked comedian and one comedian who's jacked a lot of people on. I'm phenomenal. I was at a show. I was at a UCB show one time in like 2010. And everybody was like, okay, the host was like,

okay, who in this room has an anti-dick story. And like, like 20 people raised their hands. And they were like, I mean, it's not everybody, but that's a fair amount. That's a lot of people. I don't have an anti-dick story. Well, you don't live in Los Angeles either. No, I do not. And I won't, but I'll be there.

I'll be there in about a week and two to three weeks from now because on October 15th, let me double check. That's right. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah, that's right. Actual, that's correct. 15th, we have a live show at the Tearogram Ballroom in LA at 7 p.m. on a Sunday, not a Thursday this year. And it's gonna be great.

That's right. Jesse might have his car broken into again. It'll be full of thrills. I can't wait. Who knows what'll happen? Anything could happen. It's spooky season. Yes, that was a story that we made up last year

about Jesse's car getting broken into just to cheer you to the phone. It does sound made up. Nothing of value was taken. That's a lot. It does sound completely made up because Jesse's car was so clean that just like they didn't get it.

The only thing they told you were my sunglasses that are prescription and that's I was upset. I just like, they didn't get anything. The only thing they told me to get in my sunglasses that are prescription and that's, I was upset. I was like, said no, yeah. It sucks, but worse, who's gonna use those? They're gonna have to like, shop them around to all the dudes like, I guess I could see out of this. Yeah, other than that, nothing's taken, they literally took out of the trunk,

the bin that stored all my equipment, but there was no equipment in it. Just the bin, they left the bin there. Like, but likely left it like, well, we didn't need this. Yeah, I'll be real. I don't want to waste this. You know, I'm not going to just throw it on the side of the road and litter the downtown area. It was crazy. Before Alex goes off on his Patreon tangent, I want to say about Patreon. If you're not on Patreon, you need to be. The past couple of weeks have been like flooded with shit for you guys. We have the new Rotten Popcorn for faded pair, I believe it was that we watched, and no, not faded pair. It was twisted, twisted fake, twisted fake, twisted, the Neil Brin movie, which people

fucking loved by the way. So you're all fucked Somebody wrote in a comment and goes Jesse's in 2D. No dude. It's people love this They love the movie. No, they don't love the movie. They love watching it with us. That's a movie Okay, I was about to say that movie needs someone to talk you through this No, no, they loved the episode of rotten popcorn. We also have the episode of Rotten Popcorn. We also have, crap, we just had a Jesse commentary part one go up of his reaction to the Alien State of the Union episode, which was amazing. I will, I will.

How long has the episode, the Alien State of the Union, first of all? The episode is an hour, 30 minutes, and it took me, it's an hour, 30 something, I think, from what the timestamp was. I remember, I'm trying to remember, but it took me an hour to something I think from what the time stamp was I remember I'm trying to remember but it took me an hour to get through 30 minutes of content and I was like I got to split this up more to some more to come folks about that that's for all patrons

just a fun little little bonus for you guys because it's hilarious it's so good and I dare I say Mel's art once again fucking good, and she made bookmarks for everybody that you can like make yourself. Did you give you the design for bookmarks? We're all on there. There's a little little berry chute headstone in there that you can find, and all kinds of good shit. Ha ha ha ha ha.

But yeah, Alex, what are the reasons would there be? The reason that I want you to go to Patreon that Mathis hasn't mentioned yet is if you have 10,000 bucks. I mean to say it's something else. Sitting in your pocket, just burning a hole and you're like, I just want to invest in like a good third eye wide open, super chill, casual, hilarious, weekly podcast with great guys who really just deserve that $10,000. We gotta scare this week or past week,

or I was like, no. Somebody who tried to bump their $5 to the $10,000 tier and obviously they were declined. And at the same time, it ate up the spot for like a week. So don't do that or we're gonna have to open more spots. And that's just not what we wanna do. We're not trying to make this egregious with everyone out there in the world

just trying to throw $10 at us But if you do Jesse will admit not ten not ten dollars ten thousand a dollars. That's right ten K dollars He will admit that aliens are real and that he too believes in ghosts and bigfoot You don't see the air quotes, but there are people who who were legitimately scared that Jesse would sell out his beliefs actually for that. They just forever. I don't know if I can watch the show if this happens. And I'm like, guys, guys. It's a joke.

It's a joke. It's a joke. Completely a bit. If I take you to the wall and down and I could manipulate his beliefs like a Clay man, I don't know. It'll take way more than that. We're looking like, I've put a million at least like a mill before I give up all of my beliefs.

At that point, it's gone. If somebody actually pays this $10,000, we'll have a little ceremony in which Jesse admits that he believes in these things, but you don't have to worry about the quality of the show going down because Jesse used $10,000 to brainwash himself into being a man of science. And to get all the $10,000.

He doesn't even get it all. We're not even gonna get, that's never, I totally believe it's never gonna happen. So yeah, it goes to pay. I want to even see, I want to even see $10,000. Yeah, the court benefactor, patreon.com. So what we're selling is fucking,

it believes for like three, three and a half grand. Yeah, most. At most. As if we just take all the money and just blin it right between us. We gotta spend it on so we all we gotta pay people. Yeah, it's hard to be a business.

Our fantasies are turning into much more tedious realities, but we love our lives. Patreon.com slash 2.90 pod. Patreon.com slash 2.90 pod. Patreon.com slash 290 pod. Patreon.com slash 290 pod. It's out there. Keep an eye out for us over at Simmsterhood Podcast. We'll be up there as a guest in the next week or so. Yeah, what's the deal?

That was a, me and Mathis went over there. We talked about like some crazy story. I told a story that, I don't even remember if I told that story before anywhere. But it's a story that is so uniquely my story. Nobody has a story like this. I don't think. And Mathis also like just again, just wax poetic about his needs, his needs as a, as a believer. You know what I mean? Right. And he found, and you know what? In the sinister hood, he found sisterhood. I did find sisterhood in the sinister hood. And

you'll be seeing them on our podcast in the future as well. Yes, indeed we will. Yeah. But today's an exciting day, because I don't have to do any work. I get to show up and listen and react, because Jesse's all in control of episode two, 21.

Well, gentlemen, today is an episode that I want to take a moment up top to talk to the audience. Hey gang, how's it going? I know sometimes on this show I'm very critical. Some might say hyper critical the topics we discuss. It's almost like you play a role in the trio. And in that role in this trio, sometimes I want to bring topics to this show that I think are very important to have a conversation about and this is one of those times. Are we about to be talking about like modern day political? I mean, I don't know if we're

gonna get political. We may, there are some political things here, but this isn't a mystery, this isn't horror, this isn't paranormal. This episode is about something that is very real and that we should definitely be talking about. So let me start us with Planet X. Oh, yeah. Planet X, Nibiru. It's something that if you've listened to say coast to coast AM4 and the number of years, you know that this is the mysterious rogue planet that circles the outer reaches of our solar system, and every 10 to 20,000 years makes a full orbit around the sun. Also a continent beyond the ice walls on flatter. Yes, yes, yes. It is a conspiracy theory of the highest order, usually involving aliens, or doomsday prophecies or a mix of both, but like all conspiracy that is a little bit of tangent truth and you know, what can be used to justify this sort of extrapolation

into Kuku Benanas territory. NASA even has a website dedicated to it, explaining that while there's no evidence for the existence absolutely none, there's some mathematical and gravitational anomalies that lead people to speculate. And they listed a bunch, and I'll just summarize the best I can. NASA, never a straight answer.

I'm not a straight answer. I'm not a straight answer. Why? Actually, today, right before we did this, I was on Twitter and I saw a guy post a image of eight photos of the planet Earth. All of them from different times ranging from 1975, I think, all the way to 2012 or beyond. And it was it was all these photos of the earth. And he asked the simple question, what is NASA hiding

from us? Why does the earth look different in all of these? How big are the continents supposed to be? Why is America not in the center? Like, it was great. I was like, bro, do you understand how the planet works? Like, it was not. No, the more interesting stuff from NASA, like, is the stuff like, I sent it to you guys this last week or the week before, it's a video,

and then their video archive from 2017. It's on the ISS, and you see some weird thing, come into view, it hovers for a bit, it goes up and down, and then it takes off. That's the stuff that's interesting in NASA videos. Well, NASA's clearly hiding at the Earth is flat, obviously. Anyway. God.

So, astronomer studying the Kuiper Belt, which is the region of the solar system, right beyond Neptune. Hides the Kuiper belt, which is the region of the solar system right beyond Neptune. How's the Kuiper crystals? Right, how's the Kuiper crystals? And while doing so, it's basically like, just describe the Kuiper belt. It's where Pluto and other dwarf bodies are,

but they like, it's out there. Yeah, it's not a planet anymore. It's basically like the furthest reaches of our solar system. Well, researchers have noticed that some of the dwarf planets and other small icy objects tend to follow orbits that cluster together by analyzing the orbits. This team at Caltech predicted the possibility that a larger, previously undiscovered planet may be hiding, way beyond Pluto, and that the gravitational potential of that planet could explain the weird orbits

of the Kuiper objects. Even still, there's no real evidence. There's just mathematical analytical theory. And if such a thing was ever headed towards Earth or ever existed, it'd be really hard to cover that up. Like a person with a telescope in their backyard could see it. If it was a real life.

Which is why again, there's a lot of like, well, it's a dark planet. And we only see the dark side and it's super secret. It's like that kind of stuff where it just keeps getting. It's just too mysterious for people not to just want it to be something. Right, basically, yeah. Right, which is why it makes perfect sense

when ex-NASA employee, now independent researcher, full time Twitter or er, I'm sorry, ex-user. Mike Buckner, Mb. Yeah, ex-man, I love that. Mike Buckner, Mb.A MBA said on August 17th, actually I want Alex to read this, because this is amazing. It's in all caps and joy.

The final 24 hours of civilization. Nibiru approaches. The poll shift is coming. Flods, quakes, fires, head for shelter, caves, bunkers, alerts your family. Friends are better than neighbors. You will survive. I am headed for the caves. Good luck. What? When did he post this on August 17th? And when was it happening? Oh, it's the final 24 hour. Oh, that day, 24 hours was happening. We're all living in the afterlife right now, everybody.

Hey, you know what? This sucks just as much as like the normal life. Yeah, I should never tell you this as Mathis has said, the world didn't end. My dude said, I am ahead in for the caves. He doesn't know. He's still in the caves, thinking that the world is done.

How many world ending events have we lived through in our lives? Well, strangely enough, Mathis, you may be on to something for this episode. So returning from, I assume, his cave on the 19th, Buckner took to the internet to apologize for not just lying actively, trying to start a panic with people. He actually went on to say, this truly amazing thing. Oh man. Mathis, this is for you. I thought I was right.

I thought Nibiru was coming. The physics worked. What didn't work was my fundamental understanding of reality. Oh shit. I now know the truth, and that's a capital T truth. We live on a flat plane. We live on a flat plane. We live underneath the the globalist life or control

more to come. Metro I prime for will be announced at this next in Nintendo direct. The best part about this is not only did he say plan next is coming. His then two day later after everyone was

jogging him online. Two days later when he finally comes back. He says I was wrong, but the reason I was wrong is because I don't understand how physics works because I don't know what I'm going to do. jogging him online. Two days later, when he finally comes back, he says, I was wrong, but the reason I was wrong is because I don't understand how physics works because guess what?

Flatter. I wasn't crazy enough. Yeah. Yeah. In that post, I hopefully it's still up if you can find it. Again, this is Mike Buckner, MBA, good luck finding him. In that post, I swear to you,

he posted that Flatter picture with the ice walls and literally the thing we did that episode on with like the D&D creatures and the Asgard, he posted that. The thing where you, if you took five minutes, you can find the origin of the story from the 1911 Florida magazine. Yes, he posted that.

This guy's the NBA, you said? Dude, we gotta have him on the podcast. That's, yeah, I mean, that's what he says. Yeah. No, I don't want to have this guy in the podcast. No, I just want to live in him. Hilariously, the added context from Twitter underneath this tweet was, since the world did not end yesterday, Mike wishes to keep on grifting. He is before me. What is known technically as a reverse ferret. I had to look that up. It's a British term, but basically means suddenly and completely changing your ideological political or editorial

view with zero acknowledgement of where you previously stood. Amazing. That's the comment from Twitter on him. Just to straight up mix up. That's coming from X himself. That's a problem. John X got him. X guy got a game at all. I love that. And so I figured that is where we would start for this whole thing. Something we can all agree is complete nonsense. Now I'm positive, I'm gonna get some message from some guy that's like, bro, Nabeeru is actually real, here's my evidence.

And, you know. Yeah, I'm sure the subreddit will be a flood with a couple of people. I'll say to them what I say to you guys all the time. Give me like something tangible, something real, and then maybe I'll consider it, but don't be like, I got you with this one, I'll say, hmm, should be bigger news.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's crazy. I wonder why no one's talking about that anywhere in the world, that's not. But I think this whole thing of this MBA guy posting this thing to all the different conspiracies that were flooded with things that math is was talking about all these different prophecies and all these different

End of the world things that always seem it's a big problem With society at the moment. We existed at a time where like the average man or woman is getting screwed over by a bunch of people, we were told as kids that we could trust politics, religion, economics, whatever, everyone feels like things are spending more and more out of control. And it's out of our ability to do anything.

So suddenly, prophecy and conspiracy kind of work their way in as a way of getting control again. Literally. It gives them the ability to feel comfortable, control over their lives instead of the chaos of the world, right? And, you know, going off that in times of trouble or turmoil, whether it be political or economical or whatever the case is, conspiracies take the fuck off. They like always skyrocket and hilariously true crime podcasts also do really well in

times of terrible sad times because people are looking for, I think, that shot and Freud of like that least it's not that bad, at least my life life's not like this. And then with the conspiracy angle, the people who, you know, facts or, you know, having to do the research to realize that like, the world is incredibly complicated and nuanced, makes their, you know, they need that simple, that simple thing. It's a lot like religion, right? I grew up as a Christian. I grew up as a Catholic Christian. The idea behind that religion is always to give you something solid to hold onto

and every ounce of questioning or doubt is seen as an affront to God, a huge sin, and massively guilty. So just accept that God is real, your life will be fine, everything will be stable and everything bad that's happening, God's plan. Honestly sounds chill. I wish it was.

And I mean, that's kind of the idea here with all the various prophecies and conspiracies and things that are happening again. Like you just said, people want some control. And if they think like things are scary, having someone say the end is coming, this is what you need to do. Or someone say, like, hold on. This is, there's actually conspiracy. If we all work together, we can, you know, defeat the people kidnapping kids

and eating them in pizza shops, I don't know. Man, there's crazy shit happening. Yeah, I had a discussion the other day with somebody here in Texas who was talking about how, like, I don't understand why Call of Duty was banning the Protect Our Kids tag. And the thing he didn't really understand or like, I had to try and explain to him was because

because that's not the reality of it, right? That implies that the trans folk in the gay community are actively doing what they're doing to be predatory towards children when that thing that says protect our kids or whatever is insinuating and just kind of gives a quiet message of trans and gays are evil and they're doing all of these things so they can go into a bathroom and diddle people. When in reality, look, do yourself a favor.

And again, this is like a very first step of research. Go look at the sex offenders list. Just go look at it. Go read it. Go see who's on it and find how many trans folk are on it compared to conservative straight white men. And that's just a start. And then you begin to do your research and you can, it begins to unravel,

but when it begins to unravel, the people who are so embedded in it, it also creates a panic because it means their world isn't how they saw it. And so they'll do one of two things. They'll have a fucking time of like opening, like just trying to fucking research and learn things or they're're gonna do the simpler option, double down. Mathis, you and I are a wavelength today. I'm very excited for this.

Guys, you're vibing. Mathis and Jesse vibing. So here's the thing. We're always on that wavelength. It's just the alien things we're a little different about. That's all. So, like, this is nothing new. The idea of what mathisers are talking about is nothing new.

Oh, yeah. Throughout history, we've seen waves. So why do authoritarians take control? Yeah, like we've seen waves and waves of this. When times get scary for a group of people, they turn to someone who tells them it's going to be okay. And spoiler, not all the time does that work out well. It's the same thing as Uber Eats. It's the exact same thing as Uber Eats, right? I don't know what that means. I'm very eager to see where this like analogy is taking us.

I have, I have, I have a nice set up where I setup where I live. I have a good situation. I wouldn't say that I live in luxury. I wouldn't say that I'm like a super, super rich man of any kind. But you live comfortably. I have a nice little apartment in Los Angeles somewhere. And what I certainly should not be doing

to like make effective financial decisions is every once in a while order 75 dollars worth of food to my house to feed three people. When I can go outside and get it for almost like two thirds to maybe even half the price of the of the original thing and even though for My entire life before the advent of food delivery. I was perfectly happy to jump in the car and go to Chipotle Go to McDonald's or do whatever every single day Now that I can not go and make it come, even though it's

it's not even in my best interest. It's not even like factually better or more convenient. It actually fucks me up more because it like in a short term way makes my life a little easier and takes some stress off my plate in a way, at least that it feels like it's doing it. I continue to do this over and over and over again because of something in me that's human rather than like me a consumer being like active and smart and like being like, I shouldn't do that. And you know, I work on it, I work on it all the time

and I, you know, go through phases where I don't do it as much as I, as I do. And right now is a really good time for me right now. I'm feeling good about it. but it's like a human nature thing to just kind of like do the thing that's easier for yourself every time, that's why we end up with less skills, that's why we end up less educated, that's why we end up less confident about things

and more like, you know. So you're saying Uber eats is like doubling down on like conspiracy theory. Pretty much. You just, it's the easiest, it's the path of least resistance. The path of yet. Yeah, I think I got where you were going with that. So, I mean, like, I think the three of us,

I will focus this on Americans since that's our life experience. If you're from outside the country, I'm sure you have a different experience than us. But if you're an American, obviously right now, what Alex just said, right, the major changes when it comes to technology and the uses of technology, that's a big thing right now.

Social change is happening in this country. Boomers are getting older and dying. Younger millennials in Gen Z do not have the same values as boomers and like older Gen X people. But may I interject, which is such as something strange about that, is it's the boomers and like older Gen X people. But may I interject, which is such a something strange about that, is it's the boomers and Gen X instilled these values into us as millennials. And then as we grew up and we practice the values they taught us, it's like the reality of who these people were comes to the forefront.

It's like preach it, but don't practice it, which is very, very weird as a millennial for sure. No, I think the problem is very, very weird as a millennial for sure. No, I think the problem is like, boomers had it a different, they had a different life experience than anyone else. Gen X had the life experience of like, boomers had all this stuff going for them and,

I don't know, man, like life kinda sucks. And they instilled, oh, they pulled the ladder up behind them. But yeah, but they were just like, Gen X was just like, look, life's shit, and we know it is. So we're gonna be apathetic and like, crapping about the whole situation.

And then when it filtered down to millennials and now Gen Z, like, the stuff that we see is just like, what is even, there's a reason why people like I don't wanna work, I don't wanna do this stuff. Like, why would I work for you? I fucked these people, yeah. Why would I work a job for 40 hours a week that pays me minimum wage at a time

where minimum wage should be $22 an hour to meet inflation? Yeah, it's just, it's unsustainable. We're at the end. Well, it's not really the boomers fault that they had their own, they got Uber Eats that hard. You know what I mean? Like, it's not really the boomers fault. Like, we were blaming the boomers fault that they had their own, they got Uber Eats that hard, you know what I mean? Like it's not really the boomers fault. Like we were blaming the boomers right now

because they kinda like when we look at as millennials, especially, or I don't know what we all identify as, but let's just call it all millennials. I think that's a good one. We're all millennials. We're all, we're all. Let's just call it all straight up millennials, right? Like we look at Gen X and we're like,

you're the children of the boomers, kind of, right? Like you're like the, not the children, but like the direct follow up to the boomers. A society that got the ideal America handed to them and then relaxed because they thought it was done. Right. And they got Uber Eats super hard. Yeah, it's, the realization that democracy is always work. You can what I mean? And they got Uber, they got Uber Eats super hard. Yeah. It's, it's the, the realization that democracy is always work.

You can never just chill. Yeah. I think came to, came to a realization of our, of these people too late in the game. And Gen X, like, also wanted to chill, but they also like, didn't want to like, just obviously like sort of like, be, you know, boomers. They didn't want to, they didn't want to toss the cart. They didn't want to like, stir shit up. Right. But they also knew it sucked. They saw it sucked.

But they, I mean, it's like a general notion that Gen X was pretty apathetic about the situation where they knew it was bad. They saw it was bad. But they were like, what can you do? It was like the colonization of like counterculture by corporate interests. It was like so weird.

It was so weird. It was like corporate businesses came into like help people identify with the counter culture because there was no like hard, you know, it wasn't hard like it was in the 60s when it was like vagabonds out on the streets in the same way. I still can't afford to buy a house and I'm 37 years old.

Yeah, but that's, you know, that's the millennial viewpoint, right? Because millennials was how far it got after Gen X for us to be like. I remember when what year, around what year it was, you know, that's the Millennial viewpoint, right? Because millennials was how far it got after Gen X for us to be like, I remember what year, around what year it was, you know, 2008, 2009, where it started to become clear that like, uh-oh. That's because when the recession fucking hit us. Yeah, but like, it's like, uh, the marker crashed. Uh-oh, the world is actually not going to be catching my layup pass.

I was like, just about to graduate from college and I was about to just jump in and nothing. So, you know, instead I went into YouTube, but like, that's that survival mindset. So going back to going back to the boomers, right? Like part of the reason why now I think their Uber eats getting Uber eats so hard again is because they're really sort of unchallenged way of life is being kind of tested again in a way now by people that are so mad that it's not Gen X that's against them, it's like a real counterculture that really doesn't agree with them

and doesn't like them. I know we're sidetracking a lot, but the other thing I want to kind of tag onto that is like boomers also know live in a world where the internet is at their very fingertips and misinformation is like everywhere, directly targeted at them because of algorithm stuff. And I'm not stupid, we all get algorithm, right?

We're all getting put into little echo chambers if we allow ourselves to do that. It's on you to not do that. I mean, I had a guy send me to the show, like a tweet about vaccines, and how X number of people got myocarditis or whatever about from this vaccine. So I did my due diligence, I just wanted to go check out the tweet, come to find out the

guy who put up that snapshot and it was from the CDC's website. So I had to go digging because the guy didn't put a link up, I finally found it and he cut off the bottom half of that research that says zero deaths from myocarditis and both age groups under the 50,000 tested here and the 50,000 tested here. When you go to COVID, there are deaths from myocarditis that aren't that are reported. And it's just like the whole argument falls apart if you just take a fucking second and just don't trust the algorithm and just see if what you're being fed is the whole truth, a lie, a partial truth

because the dude who took that screenshot, very clearly cut that bottom part out on purpose because I undermined it at his entire fucking point on that tweet, but it doesn't matter because thousands of people who are like, this is it, I knew what people are dying from myocarditis. It's like, no, nobody's dying from myocarditis.

It's just easier to hear the thing you want to hear and not look it up. Yeah, because it gives you, ah, I'm right. And yeah, and not to mention, along with all that, the country, the nation, its values are changing. People of various colors and backgrounds are bringing unique perspectives, different perspectives to the forefront.

And that again, scares the shit out of people, right? It's different, it's scary if your whole life was one thing and suddenly someone comes along and says, things need to be different, you get upset about that and I very much understand. That's why zealots exist. Yeah, that's why zealots come out, is because they're like, no, we're normal.

This is the place, this is the kind of temperature that cult leaders spring from. Yeah, Mathis, God, it's almost like you're right on the same page. It's almost like you've been doing the show for almost six fucking years together, Jesse. And so again, it makes sense why people would latch onto something like QAnon,

even at its most insane, which I haven't heard much about QAnon. Even at its most insane, which I haven't heard much about QAnon. I think after JFK Jr, RFK, RFK stepped in, he was like, I'm now, I'm now the important one. Everyone has this sort of like, we gotta latch onto something because they're scared, they're word for the future. Life is spinning out of control.

Something will make you feel, I don't know, like I'm a part of something. I can help stop this. I can reestablish control. Something that, you know, the rest of the world doesn't know yet. That's why they're doing this. They don't know what I know.

I'm doing something with my life. All of this makes a person who feels helpless. Let's helpless. Like you're part of something bigger and then just your daily helpless life. And so, I use QAnon as an example because one, it's recent and two, it's still very relevant and three,

it's complete and total nonsense. So to be clear, the roots of all this extend back into American history for a while. It's been a huge part of US politics. Um, really truthfully, the whole thing begins, and this is history hat Jesse, whoo. Uh, it begins with a courtship of the Christian right by Republicans decades and decades ago before I or anyone this podcast was born. You talk about that strategy, maybe. Yeah. As a part of a strategy to win the South. And look, it worked. It worked. Maybe a little too well, but it worked.

Can I tell you, can I give you an example? Name will not be used, but somebody I'm very familiar with here out in Texas, they have a little thing, like a little wooden plaque up on their house and it's like a prayer to God. And it's talking about if today's their last day, let them go out in honorable blah, blah, blah, blah. And at the very last bit of it, it says,

and may I go out in a hail of empty shells by my body and may God let me go out taking down the evil man who killed me today. And I'm like, God damn. Do you know who Jesus was? Are you aware of like what God in the Bible says? Cause I don't think he says shoot the man. I think it says turn the other cheek,

but I could be crazy. Maybe he says, pull out your glock and put a load in his ass, but I thought it was just, you know, it's nuts, but that's how it is out here. They went after the religious right and fostered hypocritical thoughts and lots of ways into their, they had to make an enemy for them to hate. Yeah, I mean, it's pretty clear that the Republican party has become more of a religious Christian party than anything else. And sure, someone could argue with me on this, but I don't think it's arguable. They are very much like, this is who we are.

They've rebranded themselves as this. And again, I hesitate to say Christian because I was raised Christian. Yeah. And in my belief system, it's not really the, it's not really the Christians that are doing it. It's kind of like some people that are kind of kind of getting in there and not having to be too earnest. Yes, I fundamentally believe they're not,

there's not a Senator representative who is teaching anything. Jesus said at all because it definitely seems hypocritical. But what do I know? I'm just a filthy lips. So like what? I cut myself with some facts, fellas. What do you say? You want to go hang out at the bars and cut ourselves

with some research? What I personally feel about the whole thing is it's sort of a mix of like conservative money ideology with televangelist wealth prosperity gospel. And it's this thing like Jesus says, get yours, everyone else. It's like if Jesus was a tech bro It makes no sense. I think it's super gross. It's that American evangelical Christianity vibe. Make it sure Absolutely. It is it goes against the Bible. Honestly, what do you Johnson? This is a quote from the president and it's true

And this encapsulates it. He says quote if you can convince the lowest white man He's better than the best colored man, he won't notice your pick in his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on and he'll empty his pockets for you. I mean, that's how the rich have run this country. Exactly for a long time, but you know, it doesn't, it doesn't matter what we think at the end of the day because people identify as QAnon. And I mean, I'm going to say it to some extent, MAGA. Um, they're bombarded by TV propaganda, internet propaganda, religious leader propaganda,

and they're putting this bubble to mean like we have bubbles. I'm not going to say we don't, but the bubble there in the bubble there in is one that keeps them pretty locked in tight. I would like to think the people like us anyway, even though we know we're in a bubble, we actively go out to try and find the sources of certain things to see if it's like, if you hear something about a government doing this or this, that and the other and you just buy it, you need to go look is there policy that was passed,

a bill that was proposed, an action that was taken by a governor somewhere, that's the stuff you should be going after and finding on your own. Unless someone tells you you can't trust that information, in which case now they've's the stuff you should be going after and finding on your own. Unless someone tells you you can't trust that information in which case now they've got you, you know what I mean? Like it, it makes it very hard to get out of. Exactly, exactly, because for some reason

you trust this person, but literally no one else. Which is why they're bought in so completely and they're so deep in this culture. And it's this culture that during the 2020 election, big millions of followers, Christian leaders on TV and social media began to prophesize that Donald Trump would win. As a man anointed by God to see Christians through these dark times as, you know, the trans youth are coming to take you along with the immigrants. They're gonna get you and kill you.

All that imagine putting yourself through sex change surgery and all the shit that goes with it. So you can go get some like dudes conservative kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The longest con. Yeah, I bet you'd be a pretty woman though. Imagine like straight dudes talking about that. Just like just straight up being like,

dude, you wanna like go do that and then like change back so we can like go back to being like, shit back dudes again afterwards? You guys into that? That makes no sense! Like, hey, let's do that. Let's do it guys, but also, how are we gonna get back to being our regular

like piece of shit back cells? But these people are being fed, and I'm getting this from people that I know here. They're being fed basically the belief that people can just walk into a doctor and say, I want my child to have sex change surgery, I want it to sex change surgery. Not realizing there's an enormous, multi-month, multi-year sometimes, lead-up of psyche, vows, and medical testing and all this stuff before any of that can have.

Then why do they believe that? And we're going to get into this. I love this today because I'm very excited. It's because they're scared of a new world. They don't feel, and I don't mean that in the way where for those who may be listening and maybe identifying with these people, I don't mean you're afraid in the way that like you are sitting in your room and you are scared. You're probably angry, right?

You're probably very angry because change is weird and the change that's being presented to you is being presented in a way that is non-factual, wholly antagonistic, and meant to make you feel like a victim of something that's not actually happening so that you can vote for the right person at the polls when the time comes. Right. And again, that right person, according to these pastors and Christian leaders, was Trump and that he would win 2020 in a landslide. Of course, he did not. The thing that happened crazily enough, when he didn't

win, all of these profits didn't apologize or recant. They doubled down. Yeah, let me give you some great examples. Robin Bullock, a pastor in television, us from Alabama, said Trump was anointed by God that he would win the 2020 election in a red wave landslide. Of course, it didn't happen. Rather than admit he was making stuff up, he doubled down, saying evil forces were at work in Washington and that Joe Biden you surped the will of God. Keep in mind, this is the same 80 year old Joe Biden,

they call it sleepy Joe, that dude defeated God. Yeah. Let me, if you think about it, right? And if you go back to 2020, the idea of a red mirage had been talked about for weeks leading up to it. And the reason is, if you look back, Trump and the Republicans shat on and said, do not do mail-in voting. Only do voting in person.

You can't trust mail-in voting, which is ridiculous because that's not true. Every over the 60 some odd court cases that Trump brought, he lost all but one of them. And the one he lost, it was because the vote, there was, it was, there was like a voting problem and it was in Biden's favor. Don't do mail and vote only mail and vote in person. And he shot himself in the foot. Yeah. And so the early counting, counting always does in person voting first.

And at the end, it does the mail in voting. So the idea of a red mirage is early on, it's going to look like Trump's early winning, but once we start counting mail-in voting, which we're going to skew heavily democratic because of the weeks and months of poisoning the idea of mail-in voting. It just gives us those couple hours give you the justification for the whole conspiracy. And then on top of that, what is it? The, the, the, the COVID deaths are like 80, 90 or something percent of, is mostly just old conservatives who ended up dying in Southern states. But also he hits their, specifically said in advance that,

oh, I won, and then I'm going to, of course. Like, you know, it was all, it was all planned, like he's not stupid. He definitely was like, oh, yeah, I won. And if anything happens, it's rigged. See you tomorrow. Like, yeah, anyway. So Robin Bullock was definitely bought into this. And again, like I said, he doubled down. And the goal post started moving. Robin created a new prophecy where Biden will be out of office in 2021 by the odds of March, saying that since in a video Biden trip nice nice. Yeah, saying since in a video Biden tripped going up

some stairs. It was God actively trying to take him out. Don't worry about the time Trump tripped. Yeah, I don't worry about that. Let's be fair. Biden can barely stay awake. The man is ancient and decrepit. He is. I mean, he's an old man like any eight year old is. I mean, he's an old man, like any eight year old. Like, you know, he's not a particularly, he's actually an extremely healthy 80 year old man. He's just, yeah.

That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. He's just old as fuck. Like, just, yeah. I like very much for like, let's keep our representatives younger, please. Please, please. That's a different topic.

Yeah. That's a different topic. Everything. so this Christian pastor went on to explain that he did a whole I'd a March bit where he explained in ancient Rome saying it was the day for settling debts and that finalities come in the I'd a March. He then said this which is just this is a new prophecy again these are directly from God Mathis enjoy I believe that on the 15th of March a power came into the earth to remove tyrants from their seats of authority but it continued into the earth and a few days after that you saw Biden fall trying to get up this is so stupid

it's all Biden fall trying to get up to Air Force One, and he couldn't get up there. He finally had to just grab each side and run. The first time it was a little stumble, the second one was a bigger stumble, and the third one he fell all the way down. He's finished. He's done. Did we just forget that Trump fell a bunch too? Because he's old and fat.

Doesn't matter, because that's not God trying to take a man out. It's just, yeah, it's not even worth entertaining this type of shit because I'm trying to kill him. Got it. Yeah, it's just so wild. It's just such a it's such a wild stance to take. It just it just reeks of like I think I'm Maybe this is fight like it's okay now. Maybe in trips more than 11. Yeah, maybe maybe God is gonna just look you trip Oh, thank God. He's gonna be okay. America's gonna be all right. You know, it's 2023 right now. He then continued to move the goalposts. And every year he has done so last year he kept doing it.

And he is new one is Trump will win in 2024 and become a three term president. Cool. Which means this man would be president through 2032. There's no way to hell he lives that long. No way Trump makes it through 2032. There's no way to hell he lives that long. No way Trump makes it 2032. There's no way. I mean, we'll see.

I mean, I guess he got the money for the healthcare, but like, No. If you're telling me that Biden is too old and slow to do it at 80, Trump is only three years younger than him? Dude, come on. Come on.

Come on. Fucking come on. Had a speech yesterday or the day before where he was talking about his run against other Republicans in 2016 and he was talking about running against Bush, George Bush, who sent them into Iraq and Afghanistan. I'm like, man, dude, Jeb, you mean Jeb? Jeb didn't do any of that. Oh, you know, he's not the only evangelical leader who created goals and then, you know, created these goal posts and pushed them further and further away.

In 2020, I want to loan according to Newsweek, Charlie Shamp, president of Destiny Encounters International, which is a just great. That's a three-student, that's a three-student. Yeah. He said this, Alex. I saw the flag of the United States begin to lower, and I saw Joe Biden's health diminish. The administration that sits in the White House is under the judgment of God, and we are

going to see the health of the man who sits in the White House begin to diminish. And I saw the American flag lower than have staff. Are you telling me an elderly man is getting more elderly? Yeah, so apparently God is gonna kill Biden, I guess, is the thing we're gonna do. Um, and he has continued since then, since that time to create even more Biden will get his prophecies. Cat Curr, a pink haired preacher from Jacksonville, Florida, has had frequent visits to heaven according to her declared a year ago that God told her not only would Trump win in a landslide, but that he would serve for eight more years as president.

These people are no longer pretending they want democracy, which is kind of the scarier thing for me than they're fucking other stuff. It's nobody wants, nobody, it's just crazy people. But these aren't just crazy people. These are people who have millions of followers online around the world in their churches where they like have, these are televangelies. And they don't really know what they're saying. Like, it's not like they have like an outline in their mind of how this would really go

for Trump to get eight more years as a president. It's not like they're like, outline in their mind of how this would really go for Trump to get eight more years as a president. It's not like they're like, and then I understand the civics of how he could possibly unlock that power and that he could like go from here to here and like somehow while in office as president making happening right now is stuff like the daily wire on a big right wing site. They had a thing go up the day, two or three days ago

that said that they do not want that people shouldn't have the right to vote. Some people shouldn't have the right to vote because they don't know what they're doing. And that is just an assault on our right to vote. Yeah, that's the thing, because again, once you get in that weird scary place where literally these people are like,

we have to, the president needs to to die when your enemy needs to die Like saying oh people shouldn't vote. That's nuts. That's not easier is they don't like you don't Okay, let's say any of these prophecies came true like Biden died Then there be a vice president who would take over not Trump like Like it makes no, like the logic fallacies are crazy. Anyway, Hank Kuniman, a pastor for the Lord of Hosts Church in Omaha, Nebraska is another prophet who kept moving the goalposts. After continually asserting that Trump had won the election that it was stolen, he told this other guy,

I think his name Steve Schultz in September September that God was going to turn things around. And this was September of 2021. And this is another thing for you, Matthew. This is a conspiracy theory that God is trying to kill Joe Biden. I don't know, man, but if this is all true and God is trying to do all this stuff, I don't know if I want to go to heaven. I don't think it's like a cool place. Is this Jesse's episode about whether or not God is trying to kill Joe?

No, this is no. This is going someplace. We've got four months that's going to finish up this yet. And God has a certain thing that he is poised to do and he is doing. So don't give up. Conorman said in a transcript released by right-wing watch, don't think that the year is coming to a close and we aren't going to see the hand of God. No, it's going to continue and it's going to be revealed in 2022. It was not. Johnny Enlow, it is now 2020. Johnny Enlow is a Pentecostal preacher who literally posted a photo

on Facebook of Trump with a golden crown and said that Trump would be restored to power and that Biden's inauguration doesn't mean anything. He also said there would be two Trumps in the office at one point, a former president, and one of his sons. Spoiler. None of these people have apologized or recanted. They keep doubling down, and basically they say- He's scared people feed them money. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and again, I looked this up because I was like, hmm, so these are false prophets.

What does the Bible say about false prophets? They should be killed. First, my question, Jesse. They should be killed. Which version of the Bible? There's so many different versions. Well, all the versions say that if you are a false prophet, you first off shouldn't have a church anymore, number one.

But number two, in the old testament you you should be killed So it's weird that they you know keep doubling down I feel like maybe they have to because in their own Established canonical life. They're just like well if I'm lying to you You gotta kill like there's a I keep I'm sorry. I just have so many examples There's another another person that I know who refused to get the vaccine because he was convinced that he was like, microchipped and you're gonna get sick.

I got it, my girlfriend got it three years later. He still won't get it for same reasons, but we're still alive, we ain't microchipped. That's because they're waiting to act with the chip, dude. They're waiting to act for the chip. Why would they poison and microchipped the people who would listen to their suggestions. That makes no sense.

Because it's part of the plan, she pulled. Don't you get it? Meanwhile, Jeremiah Johnson, a Charlotte, North Carolina based prophet who said Trump would win in 2020, admitted on January 7th how wrong he was and the result was he got multiple death threats, thousands of angry emails, and he added that he never dreamed that such a barrage of satanic and witchcraft attack would come from the charismatic Pentecostal people. So literally, he was shocked that the people that he had

forever been like, this is a scam, and it's terrible, and Trump's gonna, he's shocked those people would turn on him. That's the party of face eating tiger, surprise the tiger at their face. Well, I mean, again, if you look at when Trump does a speeches and stuff now and he does rallies, he will say things that are positive about the vaccine.

He'll be like, I help make the vaccine. He'll say stuff about like his allies and stuff. He said you need ID to buy bread. I mean, like if those allies or if those people that he like, says he likes or the vaccine stuff, look at the crowd, they hate that shit. He created a Frankenstein's monster of people that don't even like things he's saying now.

It's like, it's like, Hunter S. Thompson or Ernest Hemingway, you know, guys that sort of like create a version of themselves that's like speaks to something about a large group of people and it's not square with the person and it just comes to life on its own and they eventually, you know, start to feel pressure about that and maybe can't live up to that image. But Trump is not like a compassionate person.

Like he's not going to like look inside and reflect on the folly of creating such a thing. He's just going to like Fargo his way all the way up to the top and, you know, instead of, uh, you know, facts and policy, the strategy for keeping him in office is basically the same strategy that the kids used in Peter Pan when Tinkerbell was about to die and they just wanted Tinkerbell to come back to life. That's a key word right there, the word policy, right? Because like whenever this stuff comes up for me, if not for me, I try to, it's not about the culture war. I don't give a shit about that because it's not really a problem there.

It's just a thing that they use to rile people up. I always, if anybody ever brings it up out here and I don't know what it is about the South, but they're always like eager to start talking about politics and like how they're right. There's two questions I level out at them. One, what policies have the current administration put in place that are hurting you more than helping you? Two, what are the policies that the previous administration put into place that helped you that are no longer in place in hurting you? And you know what the answers are? They don't know. To be honest. Most people don't follow or know. They don't even follow politics in an actual way.

It's a club. It's just a vibe they get, right? It's also team where politics is a team-based sport now. So people don't really think they're like it's red versus blue, which is a terrible way to do things. Biden opened the border. When in reality, Biden kept almost all of Trump's immigration plans in place, but they don't know.

They hated Obama for the same thing in Obama. He called him the king of deportate, of the point he deported more people than Trump then. Yeah, he did way more people. Yeah, so whatever. It's all, yeah, I know a lot of people have issues with Obama, what he did. But anyway, I am one of them. Just think about all this. All the like people out there who are so firm in their beliefs that even saying I was wrong is considered

evil. And more important, that people would turn against their own belief system, the basic goodness and kindness of Christianity, for example, to preserve their new view of the world. And so that is why for this episode, we finally got here, kids. Why I wanted to ask this question. Why is it when someone buys into a prophecy or buys into a conspiracy theory that is then completely proven to be wrong? Why don't they admit they're wrong?

Why do they double down and double down again? Thankfully, back in the 1960s, a wonderful book on social psychology called When Prophecy Fails was published by authors Leon Festinger Henry Reichen and Stanley Schachner. It is really good if you've never read the book, find it online. If you want to get on Audible, there's a short version and like the actual full version. Get that full-lash version. It is very good. get that full-ash version, it is very good. Basically, it all starts with the group of them. They were doing sort of a prophecy kind of like study at the time, and they were trying to figure out, you know, why people buy into prophecy, but turns out that while they were doing it,

they read a headline on December 21st that said, prophecy from planet, clarion call to city, flee that flood, it'll swamp us. This prophecy was one that was delivered in Chicago by a housewife named Dorothy Martin who dabbled in automatic writing. Mm, a classic idea of how to communicate with ghosts

or gods where it's almost like the idiometer effect or whatever, idiometer, what are you fucking that effect is that the Ouija board kind of operates off of. That idea of like, your hand can just rights automatically, but it's the subconscious, man, that thing is powerful. Well, I'm not doing it and you're not doing it. Right, it's basically someone putting pen to paper and the writer isn't consciously writing, they are spiritually connecting to something

else that is controlling the writing process. It's used a lot in spiritualism and occultism. I just found out while doing this research that Arthur Conan Doyle and W.B. Eats, like all these different people were involved with the automatic writing process. 100%. Yeah. Conan Doyle was like, he ran the whole gamut. He was like a true believer for a long time, I think. So in the case of Dorothy, her writing detailed a catastrophe

predicted for December 21st. She claimed he'd been receiving messages from superior beings from a planet she referred to as Clarion. These messages include a prophecy that Lake City and large portions of the United States Canada Central America and Europe would be destroyed by a flood before dawn on December 21st, 1954. The twist of course is that through her, these aliens would come and save believers from the flow. Turns out through association and I guess like people she knew, she grew a following. And the writers who were doing, you know, again, researchers, research on prophecies and groups of believers and stuff, they were like, can we infiltrate this group?

And so they did. They became Dorothy's followers. They joined the group to collect data before the 21st of December. So they were embedded in this whole thing. Yeah, we believe you, yeah, don't they all hail the world. Yeah, world's end. Yeah, it's gonna rain my notebook real quick. Yeah, hail, Dorothy. God, they watched the members and they watched what they did. Some left jobs, some lost their jobs, some neglected or ended their studies, some ended relationships or friendships with non-believers.

Some gave all their money away, most tried to give away all their possessions before they departure on the flying saucer. Some literally stood bare ass naked on the front lawn waiting to be taken away. I did that for fun. Yet spoilers did not happen. The day the great flood came and went and in reaction, various members of the prophecy group of this cult, the researchers noticed some fascinating details using observations, festering a rikin, shatin, develop theories about how these people reacted, right?

Because they sat them, they studied them, they still stuck around afterwards. They were like, okay, what happens now? The prophecy, it would be the more interesting point for me is like, what happens after it doesn't happen? Yeah, they're like, what happens? Why are you still buying into this? And because they're embedded, they can see it in real time. And so, you know, they develop theories on how people might be expected to behave

when faced with a specific type of dissonance arising from a failed prophecy. And, you know, why was it that a few people simply left the group, but others doubled down and became even more extreme in their beliefs? And the writers identified five conditions they believe led to this type of doubling down and increased fervor.

Number one was, and you know what? I will just let you guys read this. This is for Alex and Joy. A belief must be held with deep conviction and it must have some relevance to action. That is to what the believer does or how he or she behaves. So this is the same kind of faith

that a very religious person would have, right? It's why you see connections between pastors and telephangilists with like MAGA and QAnon. One who is inclined to believe in faith is more inclined to believe in another thing that you have to take on faith. Yeah, and I don't want to, and I'm trying to say this is like an insulting way, but religion primes the mind to accept things without evidence. That's the entirety of my experience in Catholicism

from birth to, I mean, really, I went to Catholic school all the way to college. Like, I went to Catholic high school, Catholic elementary school, and that's all it is. And anytime I ever asked questions, it was, well, that's, well, God wanted it that way, or God did it that way. And there was never, the answer, if you didn't know the answer, then the answer was God, it was because God's plan. And that's it. And you're kind of primed to latch onto things without seeing evidence. And I know, you know, the laugh of like aliens and all that stuff, but, you know, let's

ground myself in reality for a moment, like, yeah, I love the conspiracy of like aliens and all that stuff, but you know, let's, let's ground myself in reality for a moment. Like, yeah, I love the conspiracy of aliens. And there's a lot of fun stuff out there that's like nonsense. Like I fucking had a phone call with Santel last night because he was talking to me about a pyramid under Alaska, suppressed human thoughts. And I was like, I don't know if I can go that far. Well, of course he was. Yeah, it was great.

I love that man. He's a great conversation. But like, you know, my stake in the alien world comes from the videos that we are being given by government stuff. And I understand I make a lot of leaps. It's both for fun and because I really want it to be true. But I still am striving for evidence of some kind. I need a video. I need government papers that are like legitimized.

I need things that are physically there as much as I may pretend otherwise because without them, you're just believing in another guy. The concept of faith in like religions, especially like Christianity. I'm only Catholic, so I can only speak really from that. I mean, I'm not actually Catholic now, like, practicing Catholic, but I was raised Catholic.

I was, yeah, I had communion. I was, uh, but- I did communion too. What was the, the, where you get your fake name in the middle? Oh, I didn't know that I did that. Oh, your confirmation? Confirmation, yeah.

What's your confirmation name Alex? I, I wasn't confirmed. Oh, I was confirmed. I did confirm. Confirmation, but I don't have a name. I don't think so. I'd pick a name of a saint that would be my, I'm not sure.

Another name that gets added to my name, but not legally, just religiously. My confirmation name was Francis, after Saint Francis. Yeah, well, my point is just like the actual, like religious, like sort of spiritual concept of faith is like a very multifaceted sort of like complex idea. But like the people in your church who you asked, probably weren't like religious philosophers who are ready to debate.

No, they were brothers of the sacred heart. Yeah, and have like a real conversation with you about it. And so really like the reason that I think that religion sometimes. Doesn't work so well is because you end up with people in the like teaching position who are motivated by other things besides just like, ding, ding. That's it for real. Yeah. Yeah. Like deep knowledge and stuff like that. And you just say things because you don't know and you're kind of like safe bet. It's to just be like, because God, dude, hello. And I think that's, I think that's kind of what this, the quote that I just read was kind of about is like, that's how the church preserves itself,

but in reality, the belief itself isn't just like, God doesn't have any evidence and you should just believe it blindly. You know what I mean? It's just kind of like, I don't know. I mean, I don't know the true, I'm not a religious philosopher. I think there's more to that viewpoint

from the Catholic angle. My dude, like, if you remember Catholicism, it's built into the myth, doubting Thomas. Yeah, exactly. Doubting Thomas is somebody that was brought up and drilled in my brain over and over again. The man who doubted Jesus, the man who doubted God, and now could not have never gotten to heaven.

And that shit is, it may be like, taught to you once or twice, but as a kid, that shit buries itself. And the fear of me doubting God and doubting Jesus lasted for a long time until I discovered, basically the gospels that were dropped from the Bible, and I discovered the amount of edits that went through multiple different versions of the gospel, including the Nazarene Council.

And also you never got a full religious education. Like, you, you, no, I mean, like, you were like a religious scholar.. Like you, you, you, no, I mean like, you were like a religious scholar. You went to like, Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's the thing, like you're operating off like what they taught a kid a long time ago. Probably want a Sunday school teacher taught you

to be honest. On Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday at school, I went to a Catholic school. Oh shit. And religion class, every single day I had religion class, every single day I had Bible readings, every single day I had all these things single day at Bible readings every single day I had all these things I know this shit better than most people out where I live know this shit

Yeah, but you never get to go anywhere outside of the concrete Answers or anything like that and then that's what most people in the religion Get because they don't like love it and want to like go deeper and like It's not even really encouraged to have free thought in that way, unless you're an expert. The first thing that made me question, I can remember is why is there nothing in the Bible

between Jesus and his childhood and him being an adult? Where is everything in between? Those are the last years, man, he was in the desert, dude. No, the answer is gospel of Thomas. They exist and you can read them. Right, well, it's complicated, bro. It's like, that's why they took it out, dude. The God, God acts like any teenager would.

He will, he killed people because he could because he would get mad at them. He would go home and Mary would teach him the lesson he needed to learn and then he would go back and bring them back to life. Like, Jesus was in many ways and God's, Is that true? I know that I buy into this. 100% dude. 100% 100%

God's full of Thomas. It's the gospels that were taken out in 1945. They were taken out. I'll give you a link just so you can go research a Jesse. In 19, the Bible was missing them. And so pre 1945, Bibles would have this stuff. There's a gospel of Thomas right there.

There's many, there's many gospels that didn't make it into the Bible that are out there. Oh, I mean, yeah, the council might say that, like I get the like Romans going through and picking and choosing, like I get that. Yeah, but no, look at, you can see the old, like the old-ass broken papers for the first time. Sure, sure.

What I'm saying is that the, just in general, the idea of what the Bible is, a lot of things are written well after the fact. So what happens or didn't happen, like the best I can use the Bible for is like some stories to tell you to be a good-ass person. Like that's, from like a skeptic standpoint, it is parables to teach you to be a good human being.

Like that's the best I can do with it because evidentiary like a lot of it's written Hundreds of years after the fact a thousand years after the fact like who knows right and then it's written in Rearrison and changed and edited from different translations and like the King James Bible was edited specifically So the man could divorce yeah the gospel of Thomas was actually found in 1945 so it it's actually an old, like an, like an, like an, like an early Christianity, proto-nostic Christianity, like early, early on. Yeah, withheld, withheld, evolved. Sure, but the question is who wrote it,

why do they write it? Like those things we don't know. Yeah. They don't know who wrote it. The terms that are used in the gospel are translated to twin or other or something. And so the scholars don't believe Thomas actually wrote it,

but it was written around the same time the rest of the gospels were being written. Yeah, it's like thousands, it's old. It's like a real, it's a real gospel. Back to the cultists and, and full, you know, prophecy nuts here. The second thing that increased their fervor was this one, and this is for you, Mathis.

The person holding the belief must have committed himself to it. That is, for the sake of his belief, he must have taken important action that is difficult to undo. In general, the more important such actions are, the more difficult they are to undo, the greater the is the individual's commitment to the belief. This is literally sunken cost fallacy. 100% They've put in too much time or effort or money or support or whatever it is for the belief. This is literally sunken cost fallacy. 100%. They've put in too much time or effort or money or support or whatever it is for the cause.

And they simply can't back away now. They're too committed. Even more simple. Pride. Like stepping in front of like maybe family members who have different beliefs are your friends or different beliefs of you. And then your belief ends up not being right.

Your pride is going to be fuck your gutted. So you've lost something. You invested something that you need to double down on you're looking for like a see looking for like a secret way for you still to be right yes yes the next one number three. On this list of five Alex this is for you the belief must be sufficiently specific and sufficiently concerned with the real world so that events may unequivocally refute the belief. This is the idea that if I'm in a UFO cult and I believe that UFOs are going to show up at 5pm 2day, if they don't show up and you have no evidence to prove that they never showed up, then I still the door opened that like maybe they they did show up, but like something went wrong. Maybe something happened that changed the timetable. Or, you know, like, how can you prove me wrong?

Otherwise, you're the one doesn't believe. They were gonna be here at five, but like, they got caught up in traffic. You know what I mean? No, no, no reverse guard. People who make claims, it's upon them to provide the evidence to show their claims are true. But if you can't do that,

whoop, well, you don't have evidence, it didn't happen. Well, yeah, because that is the evidence that it didn't happen because it didn't have to. So like control reality in your imagination so that you can continue to hold your beliefs. Basically, you got a rash of life. Yeah. Number four on this, I believe this is for you, Mathis, such undeniable, discontinuatory evidence must occur

and must be recognized by the individual holding the belief. So, disconfirmatory evidence is basically evidence that already supports a prior held belief. When you hit someone with other evidence, they will do something like we've seen over the past few years, like we talked about in the beginning of this show, that you're a crazy know, had several news stories about January 6th, and

he tells you, you know, like it was, it was an inside job and you give him all this stuff. You give him all this research. He'll look at you and be like, fake. Those are, I don't trust those sites. They're not real. That's not real. You say, but are you aware that commander, the president's dog has bitten 11 secret service agents since fighting took office? It's the idea of, um, you know, upon recognizing the falsification of an event, right?

Something that's totally made up. Someone will say, I believe X, I observed Y, but I'd still choose to believe X. And that's what that kind of means. The last one is for you, Alex. The individual believer must have social support. This is the easiest one. I think, honestly, I think most people, if you were to name any culty group, QAnon, for example, and anyone, doesn't matter. I think most people fall into this as an individual.

You may walk away from shit, right? If you believe in something, you may walk away, but because of social pressure, social groups, you're surrounded by other believers, you stay not because you believe because that's your social group, those are your friends, and they believe, and so they're keeping you going. And you wanna be a part of that.

You wanna have a social, we're social beasts. We wanna have friends. And a lot of places like Mathes was talking about the South. He said a lot of people wanna talk about this stuff all the time. And so that's what you talk about just in gatherings. Then you wanna be on the right side because you want them to like you.

And that's just the thing that happens. And that's similar to religion. Walking away from the church means walking away from basically your social support because a lot of people who were brought up in the church, like again, I'm speaking about Catholicism because that's my experience. But you know, Scientology, Mormonism,

like anything, like exactly go to all the extremes. Yeah. Oh yeah, I'm just saying from personal, like, you know, experience, like walking away from the religion and can ruin relationships, like ruin friendships, ruin relationships between you and family members, depending on the belief system.

Yeah, it's funny to think about it, but it's like, okay, like imagine you're arguing with somebody over something empirical, right? Like something provable, something that's like yes or no. And you come with like the one piece of evidence that you need, like just absolutely credible defining evidence. And they're like saying the opposite thing.

And then they like reach out to the crowd and get joined by one more guy that believes the thing, that that guy believes. Now they're both yelling at you. And you're just standing there still, holding the one piece of evidence that still invalidates their entire argument, which is just simply that they're right and you're wrong. And then they get four or five more people to show up. And now there's like

10 people yelling at you or whatever it is, you know, nine, whatever. I don't know what number I got to. There's a large group of people yelling at you and you're still just standing there with the one thing. And even though you're right and you are invincible in the realm of fact, it feels better to be on the angry team than it does to be the guy with the one evidence because it's scary. And everybody's the only way to fight something that's true is to just yell at it and make it unpleasant

for people to like tell you that. That's how ridiculously hard it is to pull someone from their belief system, especially if they're fanatical about it and surrounded by others who are the same. The crazy thing is, we have evidence from other studies done after this one as well. Since the 60s, 12 other groups have been studied like this, all with the prophecy, all that failed, and then this sort of disconformation that results from it. And five patterns were observed.

The first is survive and begin proselysation. The next is survive and then continue the proselysation that was happening before the prophecy failed. There's also survive and then decline in the amount of prosolization you're doing. There's survive and don't prosolize. And then there's don't survive. Just you just don't survive fucking guy, bro.

Yeah, like, here's the thing though, of the 12 groups they studied. Only one just shut down and went away. The other 11 stayed and continued to make new false prophecies, and continued to be active. According to Wikipedia, in addition to proselysation, there are other adaptive strategies, including reaffirmation and rassilization, which are influenced not by only this in group support happening, but also decisive leadership, sophistication of ideology, the vagueness of the prophecies, ritualized framing, and the organization of the group, right?

Racialization can often go to lengths to justify a false belief. Like you can literally rationalize your own false belief based on things that are happening around you. One of the same ways that you make yourself feel better about anything. Yeah, you know, yeah. One of more popular forms of rationalization is spiritualization, where in the event that something doesn't happen here on Earth,

you can simply say it's happening in heaven. And here's the thing, if we circle back to the Trump loss of 2020, that is exactly what was happening with all of those pastors. Well, Trump lost. They went on to say every single one of them. There is a war happening on the spiritual plane. The heavenly forces are battling evil. They did craze. I swear to God, find the video on YouTube. There's a video where these pastors are sitting around talking about a photo of the White House. And it was like a storm, but they took one still shot and were like,

that is a gateway to hell above the White House. They're summoning in demons, and that is why we have to fight them. Like that kind of stuff. And they said, you know, because Trump didn't win, the real battle is happening between heaven and hell and that God is winning. We just need to continue doing this because we will take down all of it. It just resolves reality of conforming to any sort of... Absolutely. Yeah. The God whose son was a fucking socialist shows Trump.

Doesn't make any sense. Well, and I've looked into this because it didn't make sense to me either, but the reason why is because they do that. I honestly... I'm perfect man doing God. honestly, I wish I could do. And doing God's plan. Yes, there you go. As opposed to him fitting more to a T what the anti-Christ would be when he arrives on

Earth. God chose him because he was in perfect. That's the bit. My dude held up upside down Bible dude like on camera for real. Like he did, he held the Bible upside down. If that's not. He said on camera yesterday that you need ID to buy a loaf of bread. And that's why we need voter ID.

You know, some people buy into that, I guess, not me, but. And they were like, yeah! He always said, when mills are killing whales, just so you know. When mills are, why whales are attacking not us harming the environment? Anyway, it's like the motorboat propeller

to the manatee. Right, when mill. So, you know, this of course then translates to even more crazy things like how the government is filled with clones and how Trump is secretly still in power and how there's a string of child rapist kabalists and Jewish space lasers and all sorts of things. Pizza, shit. That are insane, genuinely insane. Yet still believed by a lot of people in this country.

Do you guys think that they're like sex trafficking like kingpins, like care who they have in the kitchen up there making the pizza in the cover restaurant? Like do you think that's important to them? I don't think the people upstairs know what's going on in the basements. Yeah. Oh, okay. The people upstairs are just happy for the kids. Yeah, they're just happy to have a job, dude.

It's 2023. No, no, they got free child just happy for the yeah, they're happy to have a job, dude. It's 2023 No, no, they got free child labor happening That's so messed like a polter guy situation like oh This is a little girl I don't speak you built the pizza place on an ancient child trafficking ring The bag is an eight-year-old flippin pizza. I don't know what you want math is never seen the movie polter guys I have not I've seen clips of it though. Math is never seen in the movie, pulled you guys. I have not. I've seen clips of it though. So, all right, here's the question then.

We're here. We existed in this world. It's a thing that's happening. How do we then pull back from the madness? Well, smoke weed. Chill out. Listen to some records. Eat some barbecue.

Matthew J. Sharps, details something called True Believer Syndrome, which goes into detail about this It's in barbecue. Matthew J. Sharps, uh, details something called true believer syndrome, which goes into detail about this and, you know, the true believer behavior after a predicted apocalypse or prophecy fails to happen. Using the 2012 Mayan N Times prophecy, which was something I used to joke about a lot. That was great, dude. That was great. The world's last time you were afraid that you might be, like, was there any world ending event you thought was maybe happening as a kid? I entertained, I entertained the Mayan one at best

from a like, literary creative writing. Maybe from like a creative writing standpoint at the moment, like from a like creative, creative, earnest creative, tumblr, post, era? That's as far as I ever went into entertaining, the Mayan approach. The only one that got me was Y2K because Y2K was one where people actively were doing

things to prevent it. Like Microsoft and people were making changes because they thought it would like to store the world. So like that one kind of got me where I was like, maybe this could be real, but then 2000 appeared and it was fine. Everything was fine. So it was like whatever. the world. So like that one kind of got me where I was like, maybe this could be real, but then 2000 appeared and it was fine, everything was fine. So it was like whatever.

But maybe they fixed it, I don't know, who knows? That's the only one that I remotely was like, oh shit, this could be, but admittedly, most of it was like banks, we'll have, I don't know, maybe know how. I wasn't old enough to be involved in banking. That's for sure. So I didn't care, it was just a scary thing.

But anyway, Matthew goes into this idea of like, okay, we're gonna use 2012 and the mind prophecy to kind of figure out what contributes to the psychological factors that can pal people to continue a belief, or even have a stronger belief despite a conflicting reality. And again, this is even more information. I'm coming with facts today.

The first thing that he found was subclinical disassociated, disassociative tendencies. While not mental illness, this isn't mental illness, people with subclinical disassociated, this, God damn, disassociative tendencies, that is a word. Have a higher inclination to experience disconnection with immediate physical reality and a propensity to see highly improbable things with enhanced credoolly.

Basically, the bikerbar who like tells you some crazy bullshit that happened outside that didn't go down. Yeah, like, and again, this one's probably gonna be a pocket map this, but. No. He said that it's not about being crazy, but people who have subclinical dissociative tendencies, they're more inclined to believe in paranormal thinking.

Sure. Right? Like this is just the thing that happens. The next one, cognitive dissonance. The more one invests in a belief, the more value one will place in this belief. And as a consequence, be more resistant to facts, evidence, or reality that contradict the belief. This connects... Well, the more they invest into them, the more that becomes their identity.

Right. It's who they are. It's why you see people who cover their car in like Trump's face and you're like, that's your personality now, dude? How? I would be like, hey, how the fuck is anybody supposed to read this shit?

Like what the fuck are you talking about? Have you ever seen a Biden car? No, because no one's like that. No one's gonna go out in the limbo, like that's my dude. No one. I saw a few people that had like, a bunch of Bernie stickers, but like it was like four or five Bernie's

It was like a whole car covered in like nonsense The next one Gestalt processing In the continuum of human information processing people with Gestalt processing will consider a concept Without detailed analysis and accept the idea as a whole a concept without detailed analysis and accept the idea as a whole relatively uncritically. Essentially, people who, for example, are more likely to believe in aliens or the paranormal are more likely to believe that a Mayan prophecy is going to happen without even knowing about it. They're just more likely to buy into the idea from jump.

You view everyone in the fringes and allies somewhat. It's like when you see somebody smoke sweet and you like totally like relax right away, even though. Yeah, and then you sit down and they start preaching weird things to you like, well, actually. Yeah, exactly. The next one is availability heuristic. Under the mental shortcut of availability heuristic,

people place more importance and give more weight to belief when examples related to the idea are more readily recalled. Most often because they are recent information and the latest news. And this one is great because I think about this a lot. Basically it's the idea that, you know, at the time, the Mayan calendar thing was huge. Everyone was talking about in 2012. It was a date that like, in December 2012, it's going to happen.

We're going to run up to that. People's judgments and biases towards that were affected by the news. It's a thing that happens today. When a news outlet, let's say one of the crazier ones tells you that Trump won the election, it was all rigged, and people still hear that to this very day. My man.

Even if it's verifiably 100% false. On false, like Mathisette earlier, 60 plus cases, we're thrown out because there's nothing, there's no evidence, but people are still hammered with it, so it's on top of mind, right? It's still there, and that I think is another one of them.

So the question becomes, it's like being like, what happened to, it's like, - Reasonsy bias. What's like living through the like submarine disaster and then somebody else going missing and being like, are they in a submarine? Like kids.

It's like that. It's like that. When the submarine disaster, there were people who like, aliens came and took them out of the sub before it exploded. I'm like, what? Yeah. So the real conspiracy there with that sub that exploded is that the US government that the people talked about days before they heard

Some sort of a camera new man. He would he there's like a vlog of there's like a like Joe Rogan-esque vlog of him being like I knew man I got the email. I don't want to be a bit deodd of it. I don't want to disrespect anyone But that's that's the question then why then did we spend millions of dollars of taxpayer money to find a ship? Everyone knew was exploded like that's the question people should ask but whatever. But because we put more importance on how people feel about a situation than rather than the reality of a situation. So like how on earth do we come back from this then? do we come back from this then? Uh, thankfully, we have another great example, COVID-19. In April of 2022, a study was submitted to the Journal of Cognitive Psychology by Ivan Sibalo, Lyndon Ball, John Marsh, Andy Marley, Beth Richardson, Paul Taylor, and Emma Threadgold

titled Conspiracy Theories, why they are believed and how they can be challenged. In this study, they aim to one, find out what kind of personality characteristics associate with endorsing conspiracy theory and two, investigate methods for dispelling those beliefs and using COVID-19 and sort of anti-vaxx nonsense as their focal point, they discovered some interesting things. Again, my apologies to the math thesis of the world.

Please don't apologize. Listen, if you consider yourself a mathist, I hope you do your actual research and don't just believe everything I'd shit out on this podcast. Maybe I should say my apologies to the Santels of the world. I think that's more accurate.

Yeah, that's becoming more and more clear than more interactive Santels. The study suggests that instead of like, you know, why all this stuff is happening, that all that's driven by a motivation to apply some sort of like, I don't know, they try to apply an analytical approach to what was going on. So what they discovered is that acceptance of paranormal beliefs creates a vulnerability to conspiracy theories. By doling the motivation to use critical evaluation when considering explanations for important world events.

Moreover, when trying to dispel conspiracy theories, the use of pure reason is not enough and will never be enough. Instead, formal logical analysis needs to be complemented by demonstrations that the conspiracy theory is inconsistent with real life, especially with respect to detrimental consequences that might arise. So truly, the only way to like bring someone back is by saying to them, hey, this is going to hurt you in some way. This, what you're doing right now will not be good for you in the long term.

And there's actually a really great reddit subreddit that I cannot remember for the life of me, but it's where people post, Facebook posts or true social posts, like you and people, who go into these groups, there's very support groups on like, 4chan shit, and they go into these groups, and they say things like, I lost my family, I lost my friends, I lost my job, I lost everything,

and I thought it was worth it because I'm fighting the good fight, and I'm trying to take down the globalists and all this stuff, but nothing has happened for years, and the goalposts keep moving, and I feel like my entire life was a lie. And they're so close. And then all the comments are like, keep the face, keep the faith brother.

Hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it. Yeah, you got to hold on. These were so close, it's going to happen. And you can see, again, it goes back to everything we talked about. People, they're in deepened everyone's soul. They kind of know what's up, but they just can't Pull away from things because of all these factors and Despite the efforts of us to do so

It is absolutely impossible for us to reason like Alex was saying you can have facts in your hands and say this is truth and people will still ignore you because if nine or ten people are yelling at you, I think it's actually probably like seven, I'm not sure. It really, there's just a numerous, like you're out, right? And that's society as a whole, it's always been that way. Truth history is what the not only the winners, but the majority says it is. It's why we have conversations to this day where, you know, you can have people who are of an older generation be like, wait a minute. I was never taught about this thing that happened and now you're telling me I have to change my entire thought process to accommodate all these like young black kids who want to learn

about their history. Well, I never knew that. Like that didn't, why do we need to teach them now? You're just making white kids ashamed. Like, that kind of shit is a big part of what's happening now, not because it didn't happen and now we're making it up. It's because people in the past just chose to ignore

that shit, because it was convenient to ignore. It was easier to be like patently racist or to forward your white generic agenda that makes white people feel safe rather than considering the fact that there's all these other things going on. That's the whole problem. That's the whole nature of... It's the depressing reality that people will almost only change their minds if it hurts them directly. And it sucks because it means that just there's a lack of empathy. Like, who I am today and who I was fuck. Not just two years ago was different.

Five years ago, ten years ago. Like, I get told I'm different all the time. People like, dude, you're different than you were ten years ago. I'm like, you're ten years ago. Yeah, I've learned a lot and I've changed my, like, it's okay for your opinions in your mind to change on things as fast or presented that challenge them that's called growing.

Yeah, and that's why we need to put bugs in the Uber Eats. What? So when you get your, so when you get your Uber Eats at home and you open it up and there's 15 cockroaches in there, you're never going to order Uber Eats again. What are you talking about? You see what I'm saying? I think this is just Alex trying to personally hurt himself so he doesn't use the tool.

My point is I can't think of a better analogy for this than Uber eats and I'm sticking to it even as more and more useful analogies appear. So what I think I'm trying to say with this entire episode is that this shit is dangerous. Dangerous to the point where people in America actually think we're better off with like an autocratic government. That elections in order to prevent them from being stolen We should have just one guy run everything that vaccines the same vaccines that prevent polio Are also secret microchips that are gonna kill us all that adults doing drag shows are trying to turn your kids trans to make men weak or some shit I don't know so like I it's all bullshit. It's all bullshit. It's all bullshit. It's all bullshit. Used to rile up and scare people.

Again, it is scared people. And I don't mean this is like an offensive, you're a coward. It's people who are just, I get scared when things are totally different and strange. That's human nature. We are a lot of the time scared of shit. And in this case, people are scared over things.

They have no control over and they latch on to something, anything, and a lot of the times, it's because religion hasn't worked out for them or it's because they have no friends or social structure or it's because of like the government hasn't worked out for them in some way or their job, some sort. You've given up on the continual flow of like, cause and effect and facts being the only set of ideas

that you can follow. You've been bounced out of that. Yeah. Imagine you're immediate, just imagine even just on a smaller scale, your immediate family all believes anti-vax stuff. You don't. Having to come forward and say that will ruin.

That's terrifying. Yeah. I exist in a world where that is reality out here. And I'm personally very familiar with it because of the people I associate with. And it's heartbreaking to watch disrespect and passive aggressive cruelty aimed at somebody I love and adore because they follow the science and they follow trying to stay healthy. Like those people have had COVID five to ten times and we've never had it and we're not dead, we're not diseased, we're not microchipped, but that doesn't matter.

No matter how badly I lost, my sister lost her father-in-law to COVID-induced pneumonia. And that didn't change the mind of his daughter who refuses to get vaccinated. It's nuts. It is nuts, but it's also the exact same thing where you see people who are very like anti-gay. Yet if their kid comes comes out as gay suddenly they're like, yo, wow, I guess they're not so bad. And I'm, you know what? I would rather have that than the parent be like, I just own you. At the same time, it goes back to the idea that, hey, I hate those people unless it directly affects me. Which is, again, I think a big part of why you see a lot of extreme racism in parts of America that are very like one color. Can I tell you something right now?

You know what a word is part of these people's vocabulary on the regular? These white people including a cop, the N word. All time, all day, every day. It's, I don't want to be anner It's I don't want to be an early. I don't want to be like an N word. I can't be like one of them N words like. It's because they don't it's because they don't have to. Why are you all the stereotype I thought would maybe not be real.

It's because they're an imaginary type of person that they don't get into or confront or even engage with in a real way. They don't have to look a person in the face like like a black man or woman, look them in the eyes and like, be openly hostile to them. And the people who do that, like, god damn, they are dark, sold human beings. But like, most people, don't, like, they, they have never genuinely,

most people like us have never genuinely had an interaction with someone of a different culture or race at all. Like, and so they're just putting shit out there because like, that's the thing to do. Yeah, it's a thing in this culture right now, especially in America. Again, this is a very American episode, but I'm sure other places around the world

have equally messed up problems. All of, there was literally a time when every leader like literally like looked like Trump had like blonde hair Slicked back and like wore a little like a little suit I mean watch the Santa's alone and watch his movements of his hands and how he's literally just mimicking Yeah, but he's a little bump in so what I'm gonna do is I'd fight that man and I would literally be You that's not different than any other person you've ever brought up on this show. I would do it with nefarious intent.

Oh, okay, okay. I see you would do it angrily. Oh, all right. I'd give him a grimacing look as I emptied into his open gaping mall. Still, no, I can't think of one way that you would treat an alien differently. So far. Aliens, DeSantis, all the same. But the thing is, and this is why I want to focus on this, is that, for this episode,

at least I want you to take a moment and acknowledge this is a real thing that's happening, and so, like, even though it seems crazy to the people involved in it, it's not crazy. It is the life they live, and we have to acknowledge it because if we don't, it's only going to get worse. And all I'm going to say is, the last time shit got crazy like this it did it end up too well for the world so just think about it and if you see stuff like this try to try to like do your best to fight against it in some way don't you know if you see some crazy thing online or you hear some crazy thing do you like literally Google it and if

there's no reputable real ass source and none of that, like I saw on Epoch Times. No, fuck that, that's stupid. No, go look up real stuff. Is the AP news reporting it? No, is BBC? No, then it's not a real thing. If you can get up and go, if you've got the gas,

if you've got the time, if you've got the willpower, go get your fast food from the drive-through. And over eat thing is really- I can't believe it's certain that I've really worked out extremely well. It's such a good analogy and it's the one that I should have chosen from the beginning and it's good that I stuck to it because it's helped everyone- It's probably paid off! Everyone understand me at all's all the way up.

It's all the way up. It's all the way around. Ha ha ha. And moreover too, like another message I'd like to put out, if you're considering yourself a leftist or whatever, temperature check yourself, often. It's always good if you see something from a new source you respect, still fact check them,

still see where their sources are, where their resources are. Oh yeah, the left operates in outrage too. Oh, they all do. All media does. Yeah. One of those people who listens to this show and you pretend like you had no idea what our politics were and that you're suddenly shocked that we're talking about this right now. If you're like gonna really pretend that. That's 120 episodes.

Yeah, never knew. If you're gonna really pretend that, do an honor to our pair of social relationship that we've built together listener. You would argue, research first. Just do it, do yourself an honor and actually just look into what we're talking about. Whatever little thing we said that made you mad, just look into it and read the stuff that we're talking about.

And actually do it one time. Before you write the comment, I will read your shitty comment. I don't care. I will read your shitty confrontational comment that's made to make me feel bad rather than actually make a point. If you want to do it, go for it. But before you do it, just go read the thing that we're talking about and actually question yourself. Ask, do I have enough self-respect to do this? Do something even simpler. When you feel that anger, pause the episode.

Just think about why you suddenly got very angry. Head over to patreon.com. $10,000. Without thinking too hard. Only we can fix your anger over at patreon.com slash shluminati potten. Anybody else who says that, they're lying. I disavow this entire thing.

There's only three guys that run patreon.com slash shit and I don't know. So this is your only chance to get in. Like when you feel that anger, just take a minute. Why are you, like ask yourself, why are you getting angry? Like that for me was part of just like learning. It's like why am I feeling this way about certain things?

And then just like go from there and cut the weed that side. Dude, I don't know what is going, I don't know what the fuck these guys, these guys supposed to show up at 2 p.m. I don't know what is going on. I don't know what the fuck these guys, these guys supposed to show up at 2 p.m. I don't know what they're doing. I don't know why this is happening. I'm so sorry to America and the rest of the world. The JFK Junior Resurrection was happening at 2 p.m.

We can magic edit it out. I'm sure. Dean Erichold, Dean, he's gonna take care of it. Dean, I'm sorry, just mute the shit out of me when I'm not talking. I'm so sorry. Yeah, I think we need to address and I think these gentlemen have,

but like politically, if you're like, boy, I hate that Jesse and his ideology, that's chill. Like we don't need to agree on that, but we should agree that currently in this country, there are people who are not necessarily in the healthiest place. And at some point, if we don't, as a society address this,

it will become something that we have to deal with later. Or even more simply, let's just agree that facts that are unchangeable, govern reality for all intensive purposes. Well, that's the problem is we used to debate the facts. Like if I was left and you were right, we would see the facts in the middle and you would have one belief about those. Like what the facts. Like if I was left and you were right, we would see the facts in the middle and you would have one belief about those, like what the facts told you and I would have

another belief about what the facts told us. And we would use the facts as the like the center point of our discussion. And you may want to go a different direction with like what taxes do and you might want to charge less for taxes. And I might want to be like, yeah, you know what, we can afford to pay some more because I want these programs, but like, the fact was the same. Right now, facts are out that no one's using facts, and it's like, how is this possible? We can't survive as a society if we ignore reality. That's why people who do care about facts,

and I'm not saying that you're in any political party because I don't think it's necessarily true that one political party is much more equated with the facts than the other. If you're gonna get into an argument with somebody who's just telling you no, no, no, no, don't have the argument because there's no way in any world that I can't believe how loud it is. There's no world where they can beat you in good faith.

You know, in the name of facts, if anybody's trying to tell you that facts aren't real, just remember that they can't beat you in any realm of good faith and that it's not actually worth having the conversation because you're not actually having it. Save your energy and fight where it counts. The thing I've learned works really well is not to debate with their own,

like don't throw facts in their face, ask them questions, ask them, where did you learn that? Where are the studies I can go read? Where are the numbers to prove it? Where have you, like, asked questions and then let them, let their own minds have to fight the itself to come out with an answer that both falls in line with the cult that they fall, currently believe in, we're talking about Q people, for instance.

And the reality of, wait, I don't know where I got these numbers. I read it on Twitter from a guy who has a blue check mark for $8. Like, you have to just ask questions, because then there's going to be debating themselves. This isn't an attack episode, right? Like, I am really upset that a lot of anti-vax started with left-wing ideology. So like, don't get me start on that shit.

Very upset about that. Three of us are far from perfect. You're like, I'm certainly also I'm certainly also not the ambassador for left wing. Yeah, right. But like, I think it needs to be said because I know we're going to get destroyed by like two or three dudes. You're going to be really upset.

But here's the thing. I just don't care because facts are facts. It is what it is. The truth is real and like, well, and I that happened last week where, or the week before where somebody wrote a huge fucking post comparing me and the show to Alex Jones and Info Wars, there is no cognizant point in there beyond, I mad time to make you feel bad.

Yeah. If you're gonna, like Jesse said, if you're gonna say something, bring stuff, like physical, like, no. Yeah, you don't need to bring anything. You can say whatever you want, just acknowledge that I'm not going to process in in a way that is like, oh, why? Like this person means something to me.

Like unless you're coming at me with facts and figures and reasoning, like, if I make a mistake and then you have evidence that it made a mistake, awesome. I will take that. But if you just disagree for the sake of disagreeing, then like cool, you're welcome to But you're just being a toddler conversation like this are important and Having the follow-up discussion where if someone's like I disagree if you want to have that talk with me

Yo, I'm down to have that talk if you got a podcast I'd love to show up on your podcast and be like yeah, no, here's here's why you're wrong and that's fine It's totally fine, but I'm not gonna like be lectured to about why I'm wrong because there's nothing wrong about saying that people who double down on fake ass lies because it hurts them are a problem. There's nothing wrong with that. Saying that is important.

All this started with Planet X. That's where that's when the beer is, that's who's invading us, dude And Nibiru's invading, bro They're they're getting their far they're far in they're controlling huge portions of our country's government We got to be careful. Well this Nibiru has agents everywhere. It's pyramid under Alaska suppressing our human thoughts Be concerned I'm heading for the caves. What did he say? I'm I am headed for the caves

I'm he for the caves. I clearly he was back the next day. Do you think he even went to a cave? No, because he lied like, you know, like, so stupid. I just, he tried to save the world through Twitter. What a fascinating episode to talk about. We've talked about this kind of thing before in multiple different episodes, but never like a full episode just about like the idea of false prophets and this idea of just lies overtaking truth.

It's interesting. And so, like he said, it's the world we live in. I expect this one will be contentious in some circles, but it's something that I've wanted to talk about for a while because like you said, we have 100% talked about these in previous episodes, like here they're little tiny bits, but I felt like it was something we needed to do as a full episode with research.

And actual like, people studied this stuff. There are real answers to this, and not a lot of it is good. It a lot of it means that like if someone believes something enough, there's nothing you can tell them to pull them away from. And if you had the thought, well, Jesse's only using one resource, take that as the inspiration

to go look up other studies. I gave you three studies. I can do more. Yeah, do your homework. Yeah, but I'm saying if you feel like three is like, oh, it's only three, go look up, do your research. Go to Reddit post a post. If there is a study that is different from this,

that explains that this is inaccurate, hit us up on Reddit, I love that stuff. I read that and don't insult Christianity by saying that you're faith in some guy on Reddit or whatever is the same as your faith in God. You know what I mean? Don't conflate those two things. If you're really a Christian, you should feel pretty bad about it.

It's a wild world, man. It's a wild world filled with hypocritical beliefs. And again, I think the thing to walk away from this with the idea of like, it's okay for your mind to change when presented with new facts. And I understand the social pressure is huge and maybe you can't openly quote unquote, no longer believe in like anti-vax stuff because of your family or friends,

but it's okay to grow as a person and have your personal beliefs change based on scientific facts, evidence, and just the way the world moves forward. That's called maturing. You're not supposed to get stuck at 20 or 21 and never change your beliefs ever again. You're always gonna change. You have decades of life ahead of you.

You're not gonna be the same person in 20 years that you are now, whether you wish you were or not. When I was like 11 or 12 years old, I found out that the emeralds from Sonic the Hedgehog are called the chaos emeralds and not the chow semeralds. And it was a hard pill for me to swallow, but I'm here now, you know, and I'm a video game expert now, you know what I mean?

Like, I put two and two together, I swallowed my pride and I changed. And you know, in just set off, to offset any negativity might be coming our way at the end of this. I would like And you know, in just set off, and offset any negativity might be coming our way at the end of this. I would like to invite everybody, and I hope you're okay with this, Jesse. I don't wanna jump on your thing,

but I would like to invite everybody to head over to reddit.com slash ChuluminatiPod. Or slash ChuluminatiPod. To share a story of a time, not when you were confronted with the unknown or when you filmed something outside of your window so that you could talk about it on your podcast, like I'm going to today later on the mini-seller at patreon.com slash Luminati Pod. But, you know, share a story of a time when you learned a fact and you internalize that fact and changed your beliefs for the better.

I would like to, before we air out this up, I want to share mine with all of you out there. I've said this before many times, but I feel like this is true to me and it honest to God blew my mind when I found out I was wrong. When I was a kid, and this is, you can look this up, because this is the thing that in the 80s, they told kids. When I was a kid, I was a huge dinosaur fan, like all kids are. And one of my favorite dinosaurs was the Stegosaurus.

And I was told the Stegosaurus had two brains, one in its head and one right in its butt. And that butt brain controlled the tail while the head brain controlled the rest. And it was because the brain cavity of this dinosaur is so small, scientists couldn't, like they couldn't figure out that like,

how can a small brain control such a huge creature? And so there was this weird cavity near the back of the dinosaur that they were like, that must be a second brain. That is, that is the thing we were taught. And later in life, I was at a museum and I was like regaling someone with this

and a legit scientist was just like, nah dude, that's not true. And like, when I was a kid, they told us that and he's like, that's ridiculous. Okay, hold on, I gotta look this up. And so like we had a full-on research session where I was like, that's what I was told. That's what I was told is there was a button

in the back of this damn dinosaur, a Bah brain. It's in the Bah brain hole. And he was like, he was like, strangely enough, they did say that to people. But it's actually not true, and we've learned more since. And it's one of those things where now I'm like, okay, that was a funny anecdote for my past and I admit it's really stupid,

but for, I'm gonna say 15 years, I believe that shit. funny anecdote for my past and I admit it's really stupid but for I'm gonna say 15 years I believe that shit. I must have been 27 when I found out that was not real. I was like no No butt brains blew my mind. I watched Jurassic Park 50 times and then entire movie. I was like what I'm got butt brain. You were like damn. Yeah, imagine how big that butt brain is Yeah, I also thought Hermione was Hermione and Harry Potter. Change it. Dude, I said the same thing. I said Hermione as well.

Then he went on the movie and I was like, wait, what? Yeah. That's not how you say Hermione. Well, I'm glad yours are less embarrassing, but like that's cool. Dude, yeah, maybe if you're not a gamer. Yeah, how about everything about my Catholic beliefs tail part over the course of my years growing up?

Yeah, I mean, yeah, just I would be interested in just some positive stories of people learning some facts and kind of like having a paradigm shift and, you know, just that being normal and okay, and you didn't like get a stout by some solid snake looking mother fucker who came to your house. We already like small things now like like this old system isn't actually stationary. It's actually like plummeting through space and kind of spiraling or like the recent discoveries of like all quantum stuff like. Yeah.

Ignore it. It's okay. It's different now. The world. Yeah. It's got things are going to change and it's fucking scary dude. Trust me for somebody who moved from liberal New England to conservative back-ass Texas things change but you're going to be okay.

Did you know that you'll get through? And if you just kind of just stick to your, like do your research and like make sure what you're thinking and saying is true, you're gonna be on a... At one point, you actually had to get out of your car to get the Taco Bell, which is crazy. I don't think about now.

But if you go back, you know, you'll find value in all methods of obtaining disgusting food. That's like a main, that's like the, just keep that in your... A lot of brain. Make total sense. Yeah, that was there, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, We have a live show October 15th at the terror grand ballroom in LA. Go check out the tickets are post a food guide for patrons. As always, fantastic. We'll have a link to buy the tickets below. And I can't wait to see you there.

No Alex is big smile this year. I mean, look, I didn't make any big plans. Like, it takes a lot to put together something so complex as Alex is big smile. But just, I'll just throw it out there. And I'll, but it's Jesse's Orangin Black Party. Where are your Orangin Black? Hey, man, man, man, man, man. It's Halloween, Orangen Black Party. Where are your Orangen Black? BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM.

It's Halloween, baby. Yeah. The more ghost face masks I see, the happier. No, not me, that's some a little worried. I don't want that on to see those. Ghost face tober. I hate that. All right, we're off.

Thank you guys, we love you. We appreciate you. I only got a few weeks to get that one going. So don't get your hopes up. Goodbye, everybody. Bye. See you guys We appreciate you. I only got a few weeks to get that one going so don't get your hopes up Goodbye everybody. Bye. See you guys later Me and my wife were sitting outside indulging on our porch one night enjoying herself I needed to go to the bathroom so I stepped back inside and after a few moments I hear my wife go Holy shit get out here. So I quickly dash back outside I look up to, and there's a perfect line of dozen lights traveling across the sky. 1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1. Thank you.

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