Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 23 - Missing 411 Part 2

Episode Date: March 4, 2019

Missing 411 Story time. Strange occurrences surrounding those who up and vanish in National Parks. Conspiracy? Paranormal? Or easily explained? Let's find out. GET NEW MERCH HERE - https://theyetee.com/collections/chilluminati  You guys got some weird stuff goin' on. Soundcloud - @chilluminatipodcast  Jesse Cox - www.youtube.com/jessecox  Alex Faciane - www.youtube.com/user/Thenationaldex Art Commissioned by - mollyheadycarroll.com Theme Music - Matthew Proft

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I am your host or one of your three hosts here for Chaluminati Podcast, episode 24, I believe, and as always, I am. Episode 103? We're just that far into the future. I am, as always, joined by my other two hosts, the sir, the wonderful, the beautiful Jesse Cox. I didn't know where you're going with that.

I'm glad I'm the beautiful one. I didn't either. I'm trying to brush up on the improv skills, man. Yeah, both Alex and I leaned in, like, go on. And you were like, Jesse, I was like, it's like I won a rose. I'm very excited. Thank you. And as always, the forever relaxed, chilled, wonderfully

loving man, Alex Fasciani. Yeah, I'll take it. Sounds good. That's my brand. If that's the brand that I'm putting out there, so be it. I'd like to think that's the brand you put out there. Loving, relaxed, you always, what are they called? The kids say you're always vibing.

Yeah, those are my two adjectives, loving and relaxed. Right, loving and relaxed is the two that you would use. I've been called sensual. Sensual, you know, I think sensual fits you rather nicely. I don't know at all. You don't think I was sensual in his body? No, you skeptical.

I think I'm skeptical of everything. Yeah. Until proven until he centralizes up on me, not sensual. Oh, there's a lot of a lot of love to go around there. That's like a central beard. You can like nozzle up into his like gorgeous Alex beard. It looks soft. It looks like it'd be a nice soft place to lay my head.

It's it's wiry. Let's say that. I'll say that. Why? Why? For some reason, you were going to say it looks like a nice soft place to lay my eggs. I can't.

I was expecting it like, yeah, of course. I can't give away my alien my alien origins yet. It's too early. Oh, well, yeah, speaking of alien origins, we watched Jupiter ascending last night. Holy crap, but bizarre shit about that. I don't know if you know this, but this movie is like kind of in line with our Chilluminati, like alien lore.

Oh, really? What lore are they using? It's kind of like The Matrix, except it's like there's like humans are from another planet far away and we're just like a farm for them. And there's grays basically in the movie. It's crazy. You should watch it. It's what all the different races work together like there's

grays and there's lizard men. It's here's all you know. This is the sum of the entire already know it's fiction, grays and lizard men would never work together. Well, that's because they're all ruled by a guy who is basically Voldemort question mark. All I need to know is Channing Tatum wears elf ears and flies around on space roller skates.

He just literal. There's a literal scene where the man is skating through the skyline of Chicago as jet fighters are trying to kill him. It's crazy. It's crazy. That's the Jupiter ascending. Who was the director? Is that the Wachowskis or am I thinking of something?

Yeah, yeah, that was the Wachowskis one. All right. Yeah, I've never seen that movie because I watched it. I will thank you for keeping me in your heart and your mind, sir. There was a lot of times Alex was just rubbing his eyes and disbelief. That movie was crazy, man. That movie was that movie was insane. Now, for those where it's legal, is this like you watch it sober or

more enjoy watching it under the influence of something if you're of the age and it's legal. I wouldn't say it's a good movie. All right, but like, yeah, I, you know, in the way that we'd makes everything better, like you heard it here, go for it. Shilluminati branded weed one day. 10 years from now. Shilluminati OG, let's go.

Let's go. Who's that brave entrepreneur who wants to take the plunge? Somebody in my in my discord the other day said they wanted a weed delivery service called Drug Hub. Instead of drug hub, I said, that's like a million dollar idea. Just somebody needs it already exists, especially here in LA. Does it already exist? Yeah. Well, then you can't take that brand name.

Alex, are you literally googling the rights to drug? Drug up. Hold on. Hold on now. Genius. Genius. Well, while he's looking up the rights to drug hub dot com and he'll probably end up getting drug hub dot r u. Something we forgot to mention last episode. Last episode marked our one year anniversary, boys. What? Oh, my goodness.

One year, one year of doing Shilluminati. We hit the the average of one episode every two weeks. We had like 24 episodes go live, including the mini stuff. And it's just a fun little thing to think about. That's already been a year of us talking about weird and mean and evil shit. Look at us. But today, today is a day where we redive into what we talked about last week. Now, we kind of covered the basics of it last week, what missing for one is the kind of

the criteria that they kind of need to fit in order to fall into those mysterious, mysterious, missing people's cases. We read a couple of them, though. I firmly believe the ones that we read last one had enough excuses beyond you know, something bizarre going. Yeah, if you haven't if you haven't listened to the last episode, you should go listen to it because it covers a lot of what we're talking about. Yeah, because we're not not going to talk about any of that stuff really heavily today.

I picked I handpicked two of my two of my my favorite cases from the book, the missing four and one from the West Coast. One takes place in the Yukon territories up in Canada. And the other one takes place in California. I figure that's a nice little tie in for for YouTube boys who live out that way. And these are ones that I think there's a there's not really enough information to pinpoint or really have a solid theory as to what happened. So hopefully at least one of these cases will have Jesse at least curious and confused.

I'm not saying that an alien mastermind is in the forest hunting us down one by one. But it's still a curious case, none the less. I'm down to be confused. All right, I just don't want to be told why things happen when it's BS. Well, I gave you theories. I never told you why, right? But I think that's where my skepticism of people are like, here's the answer. It's like, how do you know that?

You're just making it up. Well, I'd rather be like, I don't know. I have no clue. This is great. So yeah, that's what's fascinating about missing four and one is like, there's never really a solid answer. But today, the first case we're going to start with is of a case by the name of by a man by the name of Bart Schleyer. Bart Schleyer is what I would call the epitome of born for the outdoors.

He was born in 1954 in Cheyenne, Wyoming. Bart Schuyler was born into a family of avid outdoors folks and hunters. His father, a physician by the name of Otis, and it's just a damn shame we don't hear Otis as a name anymore these days. That is like Bart Schleyer is already like a hard one to hear a lot of times in a row. Yeah, we're just going to go with Bart going from here on out. Otis Schleyer, Otis Schleyer. His father was a physician by the name of Otis.

He was one such avid hunter. And ever since Bart was a little boy, he had been taking Bart on hunting adventures all across the world through his entire life. And Bart grew to enjoy not just hunting, but wildlife in general. So much so that in 1979, Bart graduated from Montana State University with a master's degree in wildlife biology. His thesis was actually written about bear activity in Yellowstone National Park in an attempt to understand how the bear, the bear species reacted when confronted by humans.

After graduation, Bart would then work with the inter, the interagency grizzly bear study at MSU, where he graduated from. He dedicated his life to research and professionals within his career. Frequently said, they knew nobody better than Bart who could study, trap and track bears. So he has skills for outside. This is this is all to set up like how how much this is all he did. Ever since he was a kid, this is pretty much his life all the way to the point where he ends up going missing.

Aside from the interagency bear study, he would also go on to work for the Montana Fish and Game Department, whereas job was to set bear trap lines in some of the roughest terrain in the Bob, Bob Marshall wilderness. Once, Charlie Wilderness, the Bob Marley Wilderness, where you can find O.G. Chiluminati growing. Yeah. All times. It's a place where you just, you know, lay back and let the smoke take you over. Charlie Wilderness.

That's where the that's where the fog, the smoke monster comes from. The Bob Marley Wilderness. From lost. From lost. Yeah. Once trapped, once the bears were trapped, he would then install collars on them and he'd follow the bears throughout the summer to just study their behaviors. All this to give you, like I said, and like you said, to give you a really good idea at how Bart spent his entire life living,

breathing, working and studying the outdoors and specifically the bears. He was a bear stuck outside overnight. Isn't going to take this guy down. Not even close. And we'll even we're going to give another example of that here. As an example, Bart once spent days in a cabin by himself, tracking, hiking in mountains and walking for 12 hours or more, where there were no trails before making it back to his cabin every single night.

He even had his own exercise regime of push-ups and use and squats using logs. He crafted at home for his own exercising purposes. He was a handy man. He kind of reminds me of that guy from Parks and Rec with the mustache. I can't remember his name, but he does like a lot of wood, woodworking. Oh, Rocco. Yes, Rocco. Yeah. What's what's his name?

Oh, you know who I'm talking about, right? The voice of Rocco, right? Yeah. Oh, is he the face of the voice of Rocco? I don't know yet. Not the not the one in the short shorts. What have you ever seen Parks and Rec, Jesse? Yes. Do you know who I'm talking about?

Are you talking about Parks and Rec? I thought you were talking about Reno 911. I'm sorry. No, Parks and Recreation, the male with the mustache. I can't remember his name though. Yeah, you're talking about Ron Swanson. Yeah, Ron Swanson. There you go.

We're all here now. We're back. There we go. That kind of like, he kind of, in my mind, that's who this man is. You literally threw, I was, I was looking up Nick Offerman just like, hold on. Did he, was he on? Never mind. You know 911?

No, no, I just thought you were, I heard you say. Rock was modern life. Oh, Rock was modern life. I was on, I'm literally, I just had to close it. I was on his Wikipedia. Like, hold on. I just heard you say Parks and Rec and for some reason my mind was like, that's the show Reno 911.

Same show. Yeah, I was, I'm sorry. I was still chilling in the Bob Marley wilderness. That's fine, man. It's a good place to be. I don't blame you. But the point of it is like, he crafted his own exercising tools for his daily regimens. Bart was a ripped gentleman.

At one point even moved to Alaska to study taxidermy, which would eventually lead him to Russia to study Siberian tiger, tigers, also collaring them, tracking them and studying them, where he would meet his wife Tatiana and they would eventually have a son named in all our video game boys are going to love this. Guess what they named their son? Link. What? No.

Artium. Artium. Artium. Artium. Artium. Metro. Did you read Metro? Yeah, the main character from Metro.

That was the name of his boy. Artium. I think you mean RTM. RTM. Or if it's, if you have you played Exodus and the guy who's voice acted by Toonami Man, who I never wrote his voice, Steve Bloom? It might be Steve Bloom. He just, he's from the old Toonami.

Hey, I'm Steve. I'm talking like, yeah. He's the only one with an American accent in the whole game. He's Spike Spiegel. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Anyway, all of that is the exact reason that Bart's disappearance on September of 2004 is very, very strange. On September 14th, 2004, Bart arranged for a float plane to fly him into-

Wait, time out. Time out, time out, time out, time out. Yes, hello. The fact that he's good at going out into the woods means that it's strange he disappeared in the woods? Well, the thing surrounding his disappearance when they, when they end up arriving there and what they end up finding is what makes it all very strange. Okay, I'm ready. He's basically just saying last time it was like a kid who like got scared of loud noises and was like-

Sure, sure, sure. This is the guy who was a woodsman. Yes, he was a woodsman. That's all. I'm not saying it's impossible, obviously. I'm just saying it adds to the weirdness of it. Okay. So on September 14th in 2004, Bart arranged for a float plane to fly him into Reed Lakes.

These lakes are about 110 miles east of the Alaskan border, five miles west of Klondike Highway, and 10 miles south of McKweston Yukon. There are four lakes in the Reed Lakes chain, the largest being one and a quarter miles long and similarly wide. The lakes are isolated from the highway by a river and travelers cannot get to the lakes unless flown in to give you just an idea of the isolation that these lakes kind of impose. On this trip, Bart not only took his tent and supplies, but also an inflatable raft to meander throughout the lakes and explore the area and do his studying.

That sounds so nice just to get away. Oh my god. Yeah. For a few days. Yeah, man. The peace and quiet of the woods, if the woods didn't scare me, I would go out there alone all the time. But there's just no way, there's just no way in hell.

After diving into this hole, there's just absolutely a negative chance in hell that I would have ever go out into the woods by myself. No way. It's too easy to get lost, clearly. But so when David, the author of the book that I'm pulling a lot of these cases from, actually inquired about the wildlife in the area, he was sent to a man named Rick Fernel who had over 25 years of experience as a wildlife biologist for the Yukon Territory specifically,

which is where Bart went, and that's where Bart ended up going missing. Rick knew about the Bart case and openly wondered why Bart would even go there. The fishing isn't good and the wildlife was supposedly very sparse. There were many other areas in that similar zone that had some incredible fishing in wildlife that made Reed Lakes look like a terrible place to go, if that's what you're going for. But nonetheless, Bart had gone missing there, so there was where he'd end up searching. Bart had scheduled the float plane to return to pick him back up on September 28th, which was only two weeks after he had been dropped off,

and when the pilot arrived, what they found was confusing to say the least. So he'd only been there for two weeks, total. Okay. The first thing they noticed was Bart's tent. It was knocked down, but the pilot was unsure by what. Small explainable detail in my opinion, but still interesting. Whether, wind, anything could have knocked it over, depending on how long ago he ended up going missing.

Yeah, an abandoned campsite is a tough thing to be like. They, there was a struggle. Yes, of course. Yeah, and the wilderness especially. Near the tent itself, he found Bart's backpack with bear spray, along with his VHF radio and his knife. Strange to leave these behind if he was going to go on a hike, especially considering his history and what he was prepared for.

The pilot continued to search, shouting for Bart, but with no reply. After a bit of searching, the pilot left the area and contacted the RCMP, which is the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, who would later contact his friends thereafter. After having reported him missing the RCMP, after reporting him missing to the RCMP rather, they did a fly by over the Reed Lakes. And then that was literally all they did,

which is kind of the first strange thing. They didn't use any good old Wallace. We love him. He's such a sweet boy. Yeah, he's a sweet, sweet boy. See, it's actually good. Alex could never go missing with Wallace by his side. Yeah, except in the wilderness, Wallace would just be like,

I'm out. I miss my warm apartment and my couch. So the RCMP, all they did was a fly by over Reed Lakes initially, and then that was it. No search teams, no gridded searching or any of that stuff, no blur cameras, nothing. They just flew over. That was it.

Bart's friends, once they were informed that he went missing, would also go to the site he disappeared at. And the first thing they did after searching the original campsite is they immediately searched going across the lake directly across the lake from where his tent was. Here, they actually found his inflatable boat, which apparently RCMP never found. Frustrating the RCMP.

It's frustrating that the RCMP didn't even check that. That's kind of bizarre that they would do a fly over and they wouldn't even find his inflatable boat literally floating on the other side of the lake that he went missing on. And remember, this lake is only about a mile and a quarter wide and long. So they find it on the other side of the lake. Correct.

The friends go to the other side of the lake from where the tent was and there is sitting his inflatable boat just sitting in the lake right there. He left his knife. His knife is back to his spare spray and his radio back at the campsite. VHF radio is two-way, right? I could not tell you. I don't know.

I didn't do the research on what a VHF radio, if it's two-way or one-way. Okay. But while you Google that, continuing on what they found. So they found the inflatable boat. 60 feet inland from where the boat had been found, they also found a bag full of gear that he had taken. And leaning next to the bag on an adjacent tree was Bart's bow and arrows. All of which, the bag supplies, the bow, the arrows,

none of them have been disturbed. Nothing in the bag had been taken out and opened. Everything seemed to have just been left there. Like he plopped it down and then that's it. It did look like that there were that he had at least been calling moose in the area from whatever evidence that the friends claim that they have found. They believe what he did was he went across with the supplies to call moose to possibly study them or what have you.

And confirmed it's a two-way radio. Okay, it is a two-way radio. That would not be something that I would leave my camp with. Yeah, that seems like kind of a mistake. So the friends after finding this stuff, they continued searching the area. And not terribly far from that bag and the bows and arrows that they found, they found more evidence of Bart. His camouflage face mask, they had a trace amounts of blood on it.

And after they found that, they recontacted the RCMP to return to the scene. And on October 3rd, 2004, just another few days after the, you know, after the he had been reported missing, which is just over two weeks, the RCMP returned to the two Yukon and read lakes and mass and performed a grid pattern search in an attempt to find Bart, which in my opinion is super bizarre, like just bizarre in general. And I can't obviously speak for them. But why wasn't that something they tried to do the first time?

Why they only do a flyover? And then days later after the friends found in more evidence that they started to do the grid search, just doesn't, that's really weird. 60 yards from the bow, searchers actually found a skull and a few teeth. They also found a pair of camouflage pants, a camera and a few small bones. The teeth would then go on, would go on to be positively identified as Bart's teeth. So at the very least, they had found the remains of Bart. Within two weeks, he had been reduced to a skull, some teeth and some small bones.

At this point. Within a month, right? Like he could have disappeared five months earlier. He did. The earliest he could have disappeared was on the 14th. And this is October 3rd. So we're still about a week and a half away. Not even a month yet.

Not even a month yet. We're still like a little over the two weeks approaching the three week point, what have you. At this point, most investigators from the search stopped the search and pointed to this being a grizzly bear attack. That the grizzly bear, and that a grizzly bear expert for decades, was killed by the one thing he was trained most to look out for track and research. Doesn't outrule the fact that he could have been killed by a grizzly bear. But it's also weird that that's the thing that he would have killed him.

Something that he would have been prepared for you would think. But there was much more about this that still ended up raising a lot of questions. The area where all of the remains were found was significantly covered with bear and wolf poop. They collected a bunch of samples of the feces and sent it to labs for testing. But when the results returned, there was no clothing or evidence of Bart having been eaten by any of the animals that may have left that scat in the area. Experts say when eating that the animals would not care about the clothing on the person, or whatever jewelry he was eating, and would eat all of it just as much as they would just eat the

person, later usually expelling it obviously by shitting. So if a bear or those bears or whoever left that scat had eaten him, there would have been at least tattered clothing or something in evidence of that poop. Do you know if it's common for wolves and bears to poop together? I have no fucking idea. That's so bizarre. I mean, it might be just a common area where the animals kind of track through, because this is a lake, so they're probably coming by to have a drink, or something would be my guess.

Right. So there's a lot of food there that never meets. If there's going to be traffic of animals, obviously bodies of water is where you're going to see most. But they did find Bart's pants lying on the ground near the scene and intact completely, as though they had been taken off first, much like the other cases we talked about last a couple of weeks ago, where the pants were just removed. Most of the clothing otherwise would never have been found, even after a wide, thorough search of the area.

Interesting. Did any word on the weather, by the way? There was no reports of any storms or bad winds or whatnot. It just seemed like a relatively calm time in the area. So do you know about how cold that would be? I don't know. The temperature was actually not brought up in the report. It was August.

It was fine. Yeah, I imagine. Well, September into October. But still, it's not going to be crazy. In North Alaska? The Yukon Territory of Canada. He was bordering South Alaska, technically. Yeah, kind of the same thing.

So it's going to be cold, but I don't think it's touching. But no, this is still... Yeah, this is not like sub-freezing, shivering snow. There's no snow on the ground hiding tracks or anything like that. There was no snow in the area at the time of the attack. At worst, it was probably 45, maybe. Yeah, yeah. Fair and high.

Furthermore, conservation experts then posited that if the animal, bear or otherwise, had been spooked during its kill, it would have hauled the body off and buried it to be eaten later, something we also talked about a couple weeks ago. However, a search looking for any buried caches of food never produced any evidence of any cache or bloody ground from the body being dragged or wounded. Experts also indicated that there was no sign of confrontation in the area where they found

his remains or struggle with an animal at all. His bow and arrows were still leaning against the tree. That they found no moss, tundra, or branches were snapped, disturbed, or moved to indicate that he had been dragged off or had fought something. In following, several investigators made statements saying his death is a mystery and the idea that a bear killed him does not make any sense or correlate with the evidence that was then presented to back that claim. As far as I'm concerned though, that's the interesting part as far as the evidence that

there was no fight there. They did, however, find one piece of evidence that would still be found toward the end 60 yards away from his bow. They actually did find Bart's cap and his balaclava that he was wearing at the time. The cap and balaclava had no damage, no blood, and nothing to indicate any fight or attack ever happened. Investigators specifically point out that it's bizarre that the balaclava had no tears, punctures, or blood if he was indeed attacked by an animal like a bear or a wolf

as they typically go for the head and the neck when they're going for their kill. Rick Fernell, the guy that we talked about earlier, the guy that he reached out to 25 years of experience, calls it the strangest case he's ever seen in over 30 years. Is there any possible chance this guy was suicidal? That's actually brought up specifically in the book and his family and friends said that he was one of the nicest, happiest guys ever and that they wouldn't. But from somebody who has personally dealt with people who are depressed and stuff like that, sometimes those signs, it's not obvious.

Your closest friends might not even know. Exactly. Exactly. Well, can I jump in here and poo-poo on everything? The gist of this first case. Great. Yeah. So from the Anchorage Daily News, December 19th, 2004, the opening of this headline,

Analysis of Bear Scat Found Along the Shores of Remote Lake in the Yukon Territory is confirmed that experienced Alaskan Woodsmen and predator scientist Bart Schleyler, really, was eaten by a grizzly bear. Then, so they found bits of him on the shore. This is December 19th. If you read the article, literally all it says is we don't know if the bear attacked him or if the bear scavenged him. We don't know, but the bear definitely ate his ass.

However, one, they talked with a bunch of researchers and one of the guys lays out like a really interesting thing here. He says, um, Potential scenario. Yeah, he says, because they said, could a bear have actually snuck up on him? And he says, could a bear snuck up on him? Give me a break. They're quiet.

Nobody's above that, even if he's super skilled. Smith recounted an experience of another knowledgeable hunter and bear researcher studying bears along the Katmai coast several years ago. While the man was watching bears in front of him, another eased up unnoticed within feet behind him. The scientist Smith said, nearly had a heart attack when he got up to move, turned around and discovered there was a bear within arms length. The bear responding, the bear in this case may have been responding to the fact that he was using a moose call, literally shouting to everyone in the area,

Hey, I'm a moose. Come eat me. And that if a bear was stalking a moose, perhaps he might have even been quieter. So it's not hard to imagine the bear would have killed him. The man's being off and being, there's being no blood on his clothes. Well, even this guy says, at the end though, we may never know what actually happened. But currently what they do know is that a bear eventually ate him. At some point a bear ate him.

A grizzly bear ate him. That does fit in line with some of the bones that were found, had had marks of like teeth chips on them to indicate the other animals had at least feasted on his corpse. Yeah, at some point, what they're saying is at least the bear got to him. That a bear ate his body and then whatever was left, other animals came and ate the rest. So, whatever happened to him, eventually a bear got him. At least that's what the Alaskan Daily News says, or Anchorage Daily News. It's still, but that's, see, that's even more interesting to me

because of the fact that he didn't have it like, he didn't have pants on. He didn't have his Baclava area on his neck thing was just on the ground. No, no, nothing on that. And then there's trace blood on his face mask. His camouflage face mask that he was wearing was the only, the only piece of clothing they found that had any blood and it was only a tiny, tiny bit. I mean, I would love to know the area because in my mind, I doubt he's out in the open, right?

Making moose calls. So I would imagine he had a camo hood on or like the mask on and was like hiding in a bush, maybe. And it could literally, he could have gotten up to go pee. Who knows what could have happened? He could have like gone and take a shit somewhere. I mean, if he was, I mean, the other kind of weird scenario, if he was hiding, like you said, in a tree or something, what if he like had just had an accident and he fell?

That's another thing they brought up in the article is that it's very possible either he had an accident, fell hurt himself and a bear just got him because he was on the ground. And then at that point, a bear can drag you anywhere because you can't fight back. He could have got robbed even like, like, sure. He's somebody else in the area. Yeah. He's somewhere so remote that like, even if some people, man, they will get you.

Yeah. I mean, even if, even if somebody did like just like land a plane and like roll up on him, like, what could he do? Like, I feel like it's possible that like somebody just like came and killed him and took off. You know, I mean, yeah, that's, that's, that's what these, these are so interesting because there's so many different scenarios that fit. So weird that he didn't have his VHF radio on him, that that was left back in camp. The fact that bear spray was left back at the camp, you think he'd keep that. And just to be safe, his knife also being left back at the camp.

Like a melee weapon of defense. You feel like you would have those on them, especially, but you know, as, as Darkest Dungeon also said, his confidence is a slow and insidious killer. Maybe he's just, he was just too confident in his own abilities. And it was like, I'll be fine. Very possible. Because yeah, it could have been one of those things where you left some stuff on the other side and he was like, I'm just going to go over there for a minute and do this.

Who knows? Yeah. A million possibilities. Yeah. But for all the weird stuff that happens in a national park that like, could it be aliens? I think this is the most like, probably something terrible happened to this guy. And it's really unfortunate that a bear than eight the man, like that's, that sucks. But I don't think it's, you know, government conspiracy for doing it.

It at least confirms that his body was there. Yes. At the very least. So that leads us into our next missing person, Stacey Aras. I don't know how you say that last name. It's A-R-R-A-S. That's probably a good guess, maybe. Yeah.

Stacey Aras. So Stacey Aras on July 17th, 1981, she was a 14 year old girl. Her and her father would join a group of 10 people and a guide for a trip through high Sierra camps on horseback. After a full morning of riding on the first day, the group would stop for lunch at Upper Cathedral Lake before heading out to their first night stop on Sunrise High Sierra Camp. Approximately three miles southeast of Tenaya Lake

and about one and a half miles from the Sunrise Lakes. Where, where is this? I'm sorry. This is, this should be California. This is California. Gotcha. I believe it's Northern California, but. Towards the, towards the Sierra Nevada mountains.

Yeah, yeah. This, this trip that they were taking on horseback, paralleled Highway 120 about a mile of it southeast. After arriving at the night stop, Stacey had complained that she was feeling achy from riding all day long. So heading into the cabin that her and her dad were going to be sharing. She, she would take a shower and then head out for a short hike to stretch her legs a little bit.

They were at an elevation of 9,200 feet. This is important because at this elevation, trees are sparse, few and far between, and instead exposed granite would be what, what met her. But that meant incredible viewing distance for everybody and great, great, great sightseeing because you have very little in the way to see beyond and see the mountains and forests. Yeah, it's like a balcony basically.

Yeah, more or less. You're just looking at absolutely gorgeous terrain. And I'm jealous. I would love to see stuff like that. One of the ones that was also going the trip was by a man by the name of Gerald Stewart, who was 70 years old. He would be going along on this hike with Stacey when she went to go stretch her legs.

Old man did it again. No, no, no. And there's a reason it's not him. Don't worry. It would be a short one and a half mile hike to sunrise lakes where she was going to go across giant slabs of granite with small clusters of trees here and there.

After a few minutes though, poor old Gerald got tired and needed to sit down. His legs were hurting and he needed to break. But Stacey would continue on. The hike was a short one after all. And Chris Grimes, the trail guide for the trip, was also there. And he looked up about 50 yards up the hill and saw what would become the last sighting of Stacey ever again. According to him, she was standing on a large boulder,

stare, was staring off into the distance, and then quite literally walked into the sunset with no trace or sight of Stacey to be found or seen ever again. So they didn't even hit the mile and a half. They they were on that mile and a half. They were on that walk. Yep. And she was just like, I'm going to finish it.

Yeah, she's like, the old man was going to stay. And so she was like, they agreed. And she's like, I'm going to keep going. And the the guide, the trip guide was also there too. And he saw her standing on top of the hill on a boulder. She walked into the sunset. And then when he continued, they both continued on. They were, she was never to be found.

From there, a massive search for Stacey began that would last nine days, over 8,000 man hours, 57 hours of helicopter search time, and four separate agencies to pile on the case and not one single clue about where Stacey went or ended up ever turned up. The search cost them in total $99,845 in 1981. So that's quite a bit of money. Yeah, that's quite a bit of money today.

At this point, it's really important to mention that this is where the weird stuff comes up. It's at this point, it's important to mention that David, the Paul Eads or Paul Eids, the author of the book, reached out countless times during his research to the NPS, the National, I think, Protection Services, for records on missing people. And they always provided the files he asked for,

which is legally allowed under the Freedom of Information Act, which states the Freedom of Information Act, for those who don't know, is a federal Freedom of Information law that requires the full or partial disclosure of previously unreleased information and documents controlled by the United States government upon request. The act defines agency records subject to disclosure,

outlines mandatory disclosure procedures, and defines nine exemptions to the statute. This was signed in Lyndon B. Johnson back in 1966. I'm just going to go through it a little bit more so people fully understand kind of the depth of all this. As indicated by its long title, the FOIA was actually extracted from its original home in Section 3 of the Administrative Procedure Act.

And then it was kind of made its own thing. The amendment required agencies to publish their rules of procedure in the federal registrar and to make available for public inspection and copying their opinions, statements of policy interpretations, and staff manuals and instructions that are not already published in the federal registrar.

In addition, it requires every agency upon any request for records, which reasonably described such records to make such records promptly available to any person. If an agency improperly withholds any documents, the district court has jurisdiction in order to order their production, unlike the review of other agency action

that must be upheld if supported by substantial evidence and not arbitrated to caprio... I don't know what that word means, caprio... Precious. Yeah, there you go. I can't read it. So that's important. So according to the Freedom of Information Act,

anyone in the country can request files. They have to go through a procedure, but they can make them public to the person. This is basically just in case you are not a big listener of crime podcasts and Netflix stuff, the FOIA is the reason those things exist. Yep, exactly. So it's important for doing research

on things like this, especially. So the reason this matters, and the reason this is important, is because much like he had in many other cases, he reached out and requested the files on Stacey. But before he even got any official response from the government, he was called by a special agent

of the National Park Services by the name of Special Agent Yu from Yosemite and asked who then proceeded to ask him a bunch of questions. Why was David requesting this case? That he told him that he was never going to get the file ever. When presented with the fact

that he was already handling multiple cases that he had files on and he had done this many times in the past, Agent Yu simply said that he didn't believe him. He then urged Agent Yu to call the FOIA administration in Denver. Charis Wilson was the name of the person he requested him to call

to confirm that he was saying is accurate. And the agent merely replied saying that there were no suspects in the case of her disappearance. The case is still classified as missing persons and there were no leads and there is no apparent sign that the classification will change in the near future.

But that was important because he just confirmed to David that she was classified as a missing persons case. So David then went on to say that she wasn't listed in the National Center of Missing and Exploited Children and he once again was told that he didn't believe him.

He would then go on to be fully denied the case files. He would try again in 2011 and would be denied again. 30 years later at this point, she is still missing. Nobody has ever found her. And David continued to search in the area and found that between the years of 1968 and 1988,

four people including Stacy went missing all within three miles of where Stacy originally went missing. Never to be found. Only one body was of a man was ever found stuck in granite slats, but it was impossible to identify who this person was because of the age of the body.

And to this day, Stacy is still missing and the case has never been released. Interesting. So it's that little tidbit of information for me that made this case jump out. The fact, obviously the fact that she literally walked

and then no anything was ever found of her, period. Nobody found anything. What agency is Agent U supposed to be with? The National Park Services. You know what's crazy? If you just type in her name in Google, the very first thing that pops up is a nationalpartservice.gov website

that lists, it has photos from the search. And then if you keep scrolling down, it shows a photo of her that I guess is prom. And then you keep going down, it has all the articles about her being missing. She's still, at least on here, it has all this information about her being missing. And then all the people who want to go look for

and all the man hours put in. Yep. It has a picture of her here too. That's her, like. Fascinating. Yeah, the same picture that's on this website. Okay, same picture. But this is legit like nps.gov.

This is straight up the government website with all, it's a PDF of all of her information. Now, keep in mind, if information has come out since writing this book, I don't think there has any new information. No, it's not saying anything new. It just has, if people are curious, it literally has all of this information

about the search and about her, weird. But yeah, notice it doesn't, like the previous one, it was, yeah, no, shortly after in December, they found poop with body parts in it. This is just like, here's photos and stuff, which makes it even weirder. I like this one. This one is creepy.

I like this. So the other people that were missing in the area, let me give you a little bit more tidbit of information. Missing people in the area, Stacey Aris disappeared in timeline. September 8th, 1968 in Tanaya Park, two off-duty San Jose police officers found a man's body in a crevasse.

The body was never identified. Tanaya Peak is approximately one mile directly north of Sunrise Lakes, where Stacey disappeared. May 25th, 1976, Snow Creek Trail. End route to May Lake, Jeff Estes disappears. On a map, you could draw a straight line through Sunrise Lake, Tanaya Lake, and May Lake,

each almost equally distant apart, approximately one and a half miles. July 17th, 1981, Stacey Ann disappears, which is Stacey Ann Aras disappears, which we just walked to. And then, this one, then July 15th, 1988, Murphy Creek Trail. The Murphy Creek Trail starts at Tanaya Lake and goes northeast a half a mile to Poly Dom Lake.

Timothy Barnes disappears. Each of the four above incidents occurred in proximity to each other. Each incident has its own bizarre and unexplainable story. How can a body be found in the middle of a national park and never be identified? How did the man get there? Where did he come from?

Where is the camping equipment backpack and supplies that Jeff Estes and Timothy Barnes were carrying? How can a search party encompassing 8,000 hours of work not find a trace of a 14-year-old girl and, moreover, find the body that they apparently found a few years later? Missing in an area largely of exposed granite with limited tree coverage.

The incidents listed above had five to eight years between each occurrence. Three of the four incidents involved white male adults. Two of the incidents happened in mid-July, almost to the date. Again, the NPS wanted to charge him over $30,000 for a list of missing people inside Yosemite National Park. The idea that these are the only missing people in this area would not be accurate.

It was an extensive, a periodical search that produced these results, and there are others. Stacey, Aris, Timothy, Barnes, and Jeff Estes did not disappear. Human beings cannot disappear. They are probably somewhere inside that park. Why are we giving up the search when we know exactly where they all disappeared?

Maybe right before she crested the hill and disappeared right after that, like a puma came and body. Just like, just like goodbye. Football players. I mean, again, that's obviously possible. It's so interesting because when you have cases where there's just no evidence, anything is possible, right?

I'm trying to think of why somebody would act this way and not be shady. And I can't really think of one other than that maybe what happened is like, where is this? Kings Canyon kind of area, basically. Like kind of a rural area, small police department. I wonder if maybe there was never a case filed. I wonder if maybe they're just embarrassed about it

or something because if they really found no evidence at all, and they really found not anything that they're linking to the case, maybe they just never did it and they don't want to be put on blast about not ever doing it. I mean, she's definitely 100% on the State of California Department of Justice website as a missing person. You can like go look her up. Stacey and Aras, Aras, whatever her last name is,

it is her missing. It says that she is currently a missing person. Contact your contact in the Assembly National Park Service, has a case number, has all the last information in a photo. It's a terrible old photo, but like, it's the only one they've got. So there is a case file does exist. We just can't have it. Well, I think, I think there's the public case file

and then there's probably like the more detailed one, I would imagine. We real, this may be one of those things where we just assume the government knows everything and I have a feeling that it's, they might not know anything. This could be like one of those things where they just are like, yeah, we don't know. Two, for whatever reason. Because what do you, I mean, if she vanishes in the woods,

it's not like you can be like, all right, well, what are the suspects? Who killed her? If she's gone, like, what do you even do? What do you say? Yeah, I don't know. Well, most of the time when they go missing, I think the go-to explanation is running with the wilderness, obviously. Sure.

But yeah, when you've got nothing, like, what do you do, man? Yeah, because they found, they found no evidence of her at all. That's the weird stuff. That's the weird stuff. My bookmark fell out. I had a third case that I wanted to read to you boys, but now I lost the page.

I wonder, I wonder, I wonder why this one is like, like, do people, do people like investigate this? Like, is there like a subreddit? Yeah. Oh, there's a missing 401 subreddit. Yep. I mean, specifically for Stacy. Oh, I don't know.

That's a good question. There was one for the boy from two weeks ago that we talked about, because there was, there was, you know, people are trying to be like internet sleuths and trying to figure out if the parents killed the kid. But I have no idea if there's one for her. Man, that is absolutely insane. I found it.

Thank God. Yeah, man. Yeah. Those are the ones that drive me nuts, because there's no evidence. And the last case we're going to talk about today is also going to be a no evidence case. This one is about a woman by the name of Rosemary Teresa Kunst,

if you want to, you know, type the name in in case. She was 70 years old when she ended up disappearing. But let's talk a little bit about who Rosemary was first. Rosemary was born on November 1st, 1929. The next 69 years, hell yeah, were very productive and successful for dear, what, what, what, what, what? Hell yeah. It's a good number.

Hell yeah. Hell yeah. There's something wrong with it. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. In 1950, Rosemary married, got married to a man by the name of Charles Bud Kunst. And Bud is like his fake nickname, you know, it's because in quotes, they had six children and 11 grandchildren in their time together.

And the couple was active and enjoyed the outdoors often. Rosemary was a licensed marriage and family counselor in their hometown of San Anselmo, California. Now, I don't know where that is, but maybe you do. But it sounds like it's a coastal city. But I don't know. In 1998, the life of Rosemary and Bud would get derailed. The couple was involved in a horrific car accident that took the life of Bud

and nearly killed Rosemary. After months of recuperation and struggle, Rosemary came back and started to have the same energy level she did before the accident. Rosemary struggled with the loss of her husband and searched for a method to reach Bud's spirit, as you do when you get desperate, I mean, it happens. We've seen so many people who lose their spouses and they turn to, you know, Ouija boards and seances and stuff in a desperate attempt. I mean, that was really big in the 40s, right?

Like the 30s and 40s seances were massive. Yeah, like Houdini times. Yeah, Houdini times. So this is a precedent for it. But she decided that in searching for Bud's spirit to take a backpacking trip with the Earth Circle Organization in Recca, California, YR-E-K-A, for those who want to look it up, operated by Karak Chief and Elder Charlie Redhawk Tom. Every year, the Earth Circle Organization went to the remote location of Spirit Lake in the

Marble Mountain Wilderness area just west of Mount Shasta, California. Redhawk had built an altar at the lake and every year he had a religious retreat that included a calling to the gods and a spirit dance. There were drums, singing and dancing, all to bring the spirits awake and alive at the lake. The lake sits at the base of a small bowl that would remind you of a mini-volcano. There's only one way in and one way out. There is a side of the lake that drains into Woolly Creek. The area had an approximately 70 degree fall, which is nearly impossible to climb.

There are large trees and a portion of the bowl with significant ground coverage. Rosemary read that there would be a group of approximately 11 people, including a cook, Redhawk, and possibly a son. They would bring the food and tents into the area on horseback. It was a rigorous hike to the location and it was remote. After reading about the trip and talking with organizers, Rosemary felt that this would be a good event for her. Rosemary was an excellent spirit as she headed off for the trip, according to her family and friends.

After being at the lake and establishing camp, Redhawk had his ceremonial spirit dance and song after dinner on August 17th, the year 2000. The entire group participated and attempted to call spirits into the area and address their concerns. I imagine it didn't go well. On August 18th at 9am, Redhawk informed the group they were going to take a day hike to a nearby lake and they would be back for dinner. Rosemary felt that she wanted to stay behind and enjoy the absolute beauty of Spirit Lake. The group left and Rosemary asked Redhawk's 12 year old son,

Chalet, if he wanted to hike with her to the other side of the lake, a location that hadn't been explored. Chalet said he would stay behind with the camp cook. Rosemary asked for a small bagged lunch to take with her and the cook prepared it, and Rosemary walked to the other side of the lake near the outflow to Woolly Creek. At 5pm, the group with Redhawk ended up returning to the camp from their day hike and realized Rosemary hadn't returned from her walk yet. A group was sent to get Rosemary, but after approximately one hour,

they returned and stated that they couldn't find her. It was at this point that a decision was made to contact the Siskiyou, a county search and rescue, and declare an emergency. Within 24 hours, there were nearly 50 researchers actively looking for Rosemary. Her family was notified and were en route to San Anselmo. Through an archive search, David found that the SAR commander of Rosemary's Incident, member of the SAR stands for search and rescue group, was someone by the name of Gris Adams. Which is a fucking dope name.

Real life Grisly Adams. So good. Gris stated that from the very beginning of this case, he had a few very unnerving issues surrounding the disappearance. The first issue was that the south end of the lake where Rosemary disappeared did not have a path where a 70 year old woman could walk out of the lake basin. If she wanted to leave the lake, she would have had to walk by the cook and chalet, which was the kid, which she never ended up doing.

Another major issue was Rosemary's age. People confirmed that she was in excellent shape, but even a 25 year old in excellent shape isn't going to exit Spirit Lake through the south exit without ropes and climbing gear. Because of the just the way it's all set up. Gris explained that the Marble Mountain Wilderness area has split jurisdiction and this disappearance was in Siskiyou County. He enlisted the assistance of several county SAR teams, a National Guard, Fleur Equipped Helicopter, a California Highway Patrol Helicopter,

canines equipped to track scent and fine cadavers, ground searchers, and searchers on horseback to give you an idea of the immense effort that went into looking for Rosemary. As we uh yep what was that? I'm just saying me. No okay gotcha. As we talked about uh as the two of them rather talked about successes and failures of this search in particular. It quickly became apparent that there were far more failures than successes.

Gris explained that the canines could never pick up Rosemary's scent, which he thought was highly unusual since they knew exactly where she was headed and where she had walked. The cadaver canines never picked up any human scent. When asked about mountain lions and bears, Gris stated mountain lions and bears are common in the marbles, but attacks are almost unheard of but not impossible. He further stated that if there had been a bear or mountain lion attack,

there would be a defined location of the attack with blood and a scene defined by a fight for someone's life, nothing like this was ever found. They did however find one tuft of hair under a bush approximately a half mile from the south end of Spirit Lake. The hair was never DNA tested, and to this day we still don't know if the hair if this hair belonged to Rosemary. Really?

Yeah. And to this day up to the point that it was written in the book. Why wouldn't they test that hair? Fuck if I know, man. I don't know. That's what every time I read one of these cases, and there's something like the Royal Mount of Police, the first initial search was a quick fly by nothing else,

or they, you know, it took them a week to send people in, but you know, there was no good reason the weather is fine. That's where, and like a tuft of hair, why would you not send that in to get tested? I don't understand. I would love to talk to just, I would just love to talk to one of these people about this type of thing, one of the like park ranger people,

and just be like, how likely is it that you're going to find any information about these people? Are you like so desensitized to it because you're like, oh, they're gone, they're dead? But this is, you have to keep in mind too, this area, this lake that we're in, there was only one way in and one way out. There was only, like, there's a limited area where she could have gone,

and they never found her. This was the only, this was the only evidence, that tuft of hair was the only evidence they ever found. Her lunch and her lunch bag were also never found. Gris confirmed that Rosemary's children were at the search and headquarters, and they made the decision to terminate the effort after they had no other places to search.

Gris stated that there are two incidents in his 35 plus year career that will forever bother him. The disappearances of Rosemary Kunst and another by the name of Carl Landers, which maybe one day we can talk about his disappearance, but we don't have the time to cover everybody that I find interesting. He said in both incidents, canines never picked up a cent, not one piece of evidence was ever found,

and they knew where the people disappeared, but found nothing in the area. And I don't think it was planned, because she told that kid to go with her. Yes, that's actually brought up later too, is that when asked about suicidal, then the point is why would she ask a kid to come with her, if she was going to wander into the woods and go die?

David did actually end up hunting down the chief that was on that trip, but he had a difficult time finding him, but he did find Karak Chief Charlie Tom, but eventually found out where he lived and stopped by his house for a spur of the moment interview. Chief Tom was very polite, but was initially a little apprehensive. I chalk that up to probably a spur of the moment arrival at a house to have a conversation about something that happened a decade ago,

but he was a little apprehensive about discussing the incident. Once he understood that David already had considerable knowledge of the situation, he started to talk. He confirmed that they did conduct a spirit dance at this altar the night before Rosemary disappeared. He stated that he believes that Rosemary somehow got to a location called Devil's Back Canyon. He never completely explained why he thought she disappeared in that canyon,

but he was fairly sure that is where she went. He had no idea why she would have left the safety of Spirit Lake. Wait, why does he say that? He never says why he says that. He never elaborates any further. And who is he again to her? He was the guy that performed the dance ritual. He was the chief of the tribe that they all went out to.

He was the one that led the walk the day she disappeared. Red Hawk. But not the one, but she wasn't on that walk. Right, she did not go on that walk. Yeah, what the fuck? That's so weird. Like another one that just disappeared with no evidence. Except maybe her hair.

Maybe her hair, which never got fucking tested. This is frustrating. I mean, I don't know if these are all one thing. Right, well, that's obviously the point of the book is like, they're all similar in some way. There's always threads of similarities between them. But at the same time, you know, in a logical mind, you know, David talks about how many cases he goes through.

There's so many people that go miss, thousands of people go missing every year. Like it's possible that he's, you know, he's got that confirmation bias of he's seeing a pattern where there might not be a pattern. There's another one. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Sorry, I just have my mind, I have my mind blown.

I'm, can you confirm just really quickly again? What is the name of this person who went missing? Rosemary Kunst. K-U-N-S-T. God, all right. Oh boy. I, whew, never mind. Never, I thought things got really effing crazy.

Wow. All right. Apparently there is someone else who got lost in a forest named Rosemary Gullet. And her story ends with her reappearing on Facebook in a, you know, like a weird apartment. And her mom freaked out and was like, what? So yeah, all right, never mind.

I almost was like, dude, we just stumbled on something. No, it was not even the same person. Damn, that was absolutely, that would have been insane though. I'm curious, what forest did she go missing? West coast, east coast? Cause I'm curious if she's been in the woods. Oh, I just closed the page cause I was like, this is dumb. So I don't, I don't need this anymore.

I don't need this at all. And you know, like just, just to kind of add interesting, you know, tidbits, there's, there's probably a good hundred cases in this book where it's literally a paragraph because West, when he reaches out to get the files from the people, he's denied. He just has to be like, yep. I, right.

And that's, he's left wondering too. He doesn't have any, he doesn't, he doesn't, what I appreciate is he doesn't pause it why he's being denied. He's just like, it's weird that I'm being denied. I'm being, he's being contacted occasionally by individual agents asking questions, like why are you looking at this case?

And that's the stuff that throws red flags up for me as somebody who just is interested in this stuff. Why? Why, why turn him down? Maybe they don't like him anymore because they know he's like writing books and stuff. But like, I don't know. It's possible, but, but I don't know.

It seems like they would speak out against him if they really had a problem with what he was doing. Like he was a simple little thing. Like Ruth Alice Jacobs, she, she, she was 76 when she disappeared. Amador County, California disappeared in 1989. Facts surrounding the disappearance of Ruth Jacobus are few.

Investigators believe that Ruth wandered away from her remote home and got lost in the wilderness. Could be obviously like dementia or something if she suffered from it, but they said she didn't. Family members and friends said she didn't suffer from anything. The area around the home was, has steep and rugged mountains that make hiking the area treacherous.

She was last seen by her husband near noon. A search by the sheriff could not find Ruth. And I was denied any of the missing persons files by the government. So I, I'm fascinated by this whole, because the government is the way the government is, it breeds the conspiracy. Yeah, the conspiracy and the mythos,

like they're hiding something. But I just went on ProPublica, cause I guess they have an article about people trying to get information requests. And this guy was, they have a bunch of different journalists on here. Many, many of them are a part of this article and they give examples.

And so this one guy reached out, cause I guess there was a New York city regulator thing about taxes. And this guy was like, okay, this dude gave me a tip. I have an inside guy. I just need to find these several pieces of information. And he sent the government very descriptive things. So they couldn't come back with him and be like,

no, sorry, you know, it would take too long to find this or we don't know what this is or whatever. And they still came back with stuff that was like, yeah, uh, you didn't really adequately describe the records you seek. And he's like, that's not true. Yeah, he was like, that's not true. I gave him all these different things.

I appealed everything and they were like, yeah, sorry, we don't have that information that you requested. And he's just like, what? No, you definitely do. And so the article also hints on the fact that maybe because government agencies like this are very, very understaffed that they just don't like want to.

Being like, oh, yeah, maybe. And that just breeds more conspiracy. Who knows? But yeah, I agree. It's weird that they wouldn't just be like, all right, we'll look into it. At least just give me some lip service. You know what I mean?

Yeah, and it's so weird that in, like I said, multiple accounts. Now, of course, this is all just by David David's, you know, mouth that he gets contacted by agents asking questions before he ever gets a formal response. Like they actually reach out and call him and be like, what do you want these files for? No, you're not going to get them.

Like stop trying to look into this case. And that, of course, also breeds conspiracy. It's not a good look, U.S. government. Yeah, it's so weird. It's so weird, man. And this has been, like, this has been my life for like the past month. I've just, these missing cases,

and it just makes me afraid to go into the woods. I got to watch this movie. Like going back, the documentary, by the way, not only is it on Amazon Prime, it's also on Hulu. I was informed as well. So you can go watch it on Hulu too. Nice.

Yeah, like going back to this article, literally everyone on here, this one guy sends them information request after information request, doing everything they say, getting more and more specific about exactly what he needs without giving up his sources and without being like,

oh yeah, I need this article, right? Without doing it. Literally, there's like, no, at the very, very end, they're like, we decided not to. After going through every hoop. Like that's crazy to me. It's insane. It's, it, that's, that's why I've just like missing

411, we could do like, we could do a million episodes on this and we will absolutely revisit missing 411 in the future for sure. But because there's some interesting shit to talk about. I'm waiting for the moment. See, look, this is all great for weird mysteries, but where's the moment where we finally transition

to the fact that like, oh, it's cause there's a gateway to another reality in the national parks. If I was to think, because there's so many different, this, well, those theories usually line up with the ones where they went this way and they ended up like, they've found their body in the exact opposite direction

and that's what people like step through. We could do something. If you want to do another one in two weeks, I'll pick those out. You know what I mean? Though, though, I just want like, what's the general theory of relativity behind all this? So the, you say like, what's the most,

what's the most accepted conspiracy you think? Well, or most grand, right? I would say there's gotta be a reason why you write a book with all these mysteries, like mysterious disappearances, isn't it? And then at the very end, you're like, because it's the Bermuda Triangle, right? What's the thing?

He doesn't have a thing. He leaves it, he leaves it out. He's more presenting things than he is trying to come to a conclusion. So there's no like presentation. However, if you're talking to me and you want to know my theory, if I was to go grandiose theory,

the only thing that makes the most sense, the most sense with what we have is government involvement. The government picking people. And just taking them. And just whether they're experimenting on them or trying programs out on them or whatever you want to call it, running tests on them, whatever.

I mean, that's where my mind would go. Maybe a few of them are, there's so many missing peoples, I'm sure a few of them are alien abductions, if you believe that sort of thing. But where the missing peoples tend to happen the most, where when he's talking about these specific circumstances, as I showed you boys in the DM over the past couple of weeks,

that's where it lines up with quote unquote, hidden potential CIA bases and stuff that's out there. So that's where my brain would go. I would think like the most plausible outside of either suicidal people that can be written off that way, wild animal attacks with just a little bit of evidence, people who are literally going missing completely with no evidence and the government's like,

no, you can't have any files. My brain's like, oh, okay, maybe. I can 100% see the conspiracy behind it because it lines up perfectly like, oh, well, this guy went out to an unknown area. And he went there. The people were like, don't go there. There's nothing out there.

You want to fish over here. And then he goes out there. And then suddenly he's dead. Weird. Or like she walked into the sunset and then was gone. But there were people there. What happened to her, man? Like, I get it.

It's crazy. But I can understand where you can easily slip in like a pseudoscience and be like, oh, of course. This is what happened. Aliens. Well, that's as we talked about a little earlier. It's like the problem with these these these disappearances so many of them leave so little evidence

any conspiracy theory can fit it. It's I'm going to go with the old scary tree people from the X files. Oh, I thought you meant treants from Lord of the Rings. Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm talking about that episode of X files where there's those invisible people in the woods that make people disappear.

I feel like it's got to be like missing goal 11. I think it's got to be inspired by by this exact thing. But it's literally like, I believe they find like a cave and it has like Latin written in it and Mulder's like, oh, these could be like settlers from Europe that found something unspeakable. Or Lord of the Rings treants. Yeah.

I don't know. I'm I'm I'm less willing to accept it being a conspiracy and more willing to accept it being like some type of weird thing that we don't know about. Yeah. Yeah, fair. Whether it be just you are you saying like more it's more along the lines of something like a cryptid

a cryptid or like something like, you know, you know that you think it a normal animal couldn't just kill these people. It has to be like the chupacabra. It doesn't have to be like a wolf. No, I just mean like, you know, like when it gets really cold and you take your clothes off that type of thing. Yeah, the paradoxical undressing. Yeah, I wonder if there's something that could happen.

Like, you know, what if there's like a frequency that like rumbles out of the earth in remote areas that not makes you want to kill yourself stories. But there's another weird story in here about a three year old that goes missing and is found a few days later alive. She's she doesn't die. And the only thing she remembers

and the only thing she tells people is that it was always sunny where she was and that grandma was there. But she was whenever she got mad. She would spark. She would start to spark. And she would apparently ask the three year old to poop into a bag for her.

What? Yeah. What the fuck? Yeah. Why didn't we do that story? Because that's the story. There's your story. But that's there you go.

There's your story. There's no other information. It's based on the testimony of a three year old. Of a toddler, yeah. Yeah. Where she ended up was uphill. Like by three miles uphill and it would have been very difficult for a three year old

to spend days climbing uphill for, you know, X number of miles. But beyond that, that's literally, it's like a paragraph. Like that's it. I just gave you the, I just gave you the run. Now that's a fascinating story. Yeah, she said it was.

The word, like the verbiage, grandma was sparking. Yeah, like a robot. And she made her poop in a bag. Yeah, she never did. Like every time, and every time she said no, the grandma got mad and then she started to spark around her neck. Do you have, do you have this name, this girl?

I will, I can find it. If you give me some time, I have to find it. Okay. I would love to know the name of that girl. Tweet that girl's name. Tweet it out. Yeah, if you guys want me to get you the name out post, I will definitely get it for you.

It's in here somewhere. Yeah, our tossing on the subreddit. Yeah, there's some wild, wild, weird stories, man. But a lot of the most interesting ones are super short. Like there's a paragraph because they get found alive. And they're, you know, you're relying, like you said, on the testimony of like a three or four or five year old, which is not reliable to say the best, at least.

So what, so what, so what is on the horizon for Chiluminati? Well, I was thinking of doing something super fun, super lighthearted. I had just been, I had just been made aware, and I think you boys had been made aware too, of a man who claimed to have killed 18 greys with a katana. Yes. Yeah.

All right. I'd love to talk about, specifically, there's another man I would love to talk about, but I want to talk about, instead of the killing of greys, there are loads of people who have stories about sexual encounters with the greys. And there is a man that every, he's frequently visited by a female gray, and he paints the scenarios in which he has sex with the greys. And the paintings are always him with this like female looking gray,

and then a bunch of like regular small looking greys standing around as like the female gray rides him. Hell yeah. I want to talk about that crazy shit. I would love to get into that. As far as people are also requesting another Alex episode, but I know you take your time with your research, and you like to go real deep into certain weird holes.

Yeah, I'll probably find like one or two things that we can do quick pretty soon. I'm like, I've been like doing that a little bit more lately. Yeah, I've been heavily like busy with the writing right now. But when I'm done with that, I'm going to churn out a couple crazy town ones. I'm looking at right now things I'm looking at are like the Baron Trump thing, which is, you know, not as wild, but weird. It's not as deep as I'd like it to be. It's not.

There's also QAnon. There's there's there's a lot of different things that I'm looking into. I'll probably come up with something that you that I haven't even mentioned, but we'll see what happens. And I have everybody. I have a couple of my researchers working on the background, our next serial killer case, just to talk. I want to hit the big hitters and just talk about how shitty they are as people,

especially with the recent. I've seen a lot of people talk about the romanticization of Ted Bundy with the movies that come out and make like what amazing person he is. Ted Bundy hot and stuff. Ted, but here's the thing, like we're going to cover Ted Bundy one day. And Ted Bundy is far from hot. He is on his best day, average looking, regularly a crazed, insane psychopath. He people like him because he's mysterious and he's a murderer.

Well, it's it's that whole idea, right? That serial killers, you know, everybody expects serial killers to look like the monsters that they are and they never do because they're people. They're just people. So people when they see Ted Bundy is like just an average looking nobody. Be like, oh my God, he's hot. It's like, no, he's not hot, you idiots. Yeah, I don't I really don't get that.

Me either. I hate it. He's a piece of shit who was an empty husk of a human being who could do nothing to make himself feel normal. So he just became a despicable monster. And we'll talk about the reality of Ted Bundy one day. Beyond that, that's what I've got for you. Three cases handpicked by yours truly.

I hope you guys enjoyed those cases. Delightful. Guys, buy our clothes by the by the things that we have available. We're going to be seeing a new attire soon. We're looking. I reached out to to the Yeti and we're talking about getting a hoodie. Oh, desperate for for hoodies up on to Luminati. All you twisted paranormal people walking around the streets.

Hell yeah. Do you represent glowing hoodies? Get those glowing hoodies. Let people know about the podcast. We are still like I'm knocking on the door of 700.5 star reviews on iTunes. So give us drop us the reviews if you love what we do. And as always, you want to talk to us directly. You can.

I'm Mathis Games on Twitter. Jesse Cox is his namesake on Twitter. And Alex is his namesake with Faustiana. Hey, yeah, find me. Find me out there and the subreddit is dope. Go check out man. Yeah, please tweet me your crazy bullshit. Post your crazy bullshit.

Please. I think that's it. You just you got something. You look like you want to say something. No, no, no. Post your crazy bullshit. I want the cra- like I want more stories that are like, and then grandma sparks her neck and told me to poop in a bag.

That's what I want. I want more of that. That's crazy. I love that. If you're a missing 411 person that went missing and came back. If Mulder is I want to believe, Jesse is I want to want to believe. Yeah, I want to want to believe kind of. Yeah, I want you to blow my mind.

I want like, and then I took this photo of grandma pooping in a bag and I was like, but you've been dead years, granny. I want that. Yeah. All right. Well, that's it for us for this episode of Chilluminati. You're ready, Alex. You look like you're just exhausted.

I'm looking at my list of topics that I've been like slowly compiling research on. And I'm laughing at myself. That's all. Yeah. I mean, my pile of research is mostly alien focused. I'm reading a couple alien books right now. So I'm excited to talk about that stuff again. But I really, before we do any serious alien stuff,

I really want to talk about the dude who bangs aliens and paints them. I can't wait to hear more about this guy. Oh, it's great. It's so good. But that we're wrapping up for us today. This has been Chilluminati podcast episode 24. We love you guys. And we'll see you soon.

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