Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 231 - The BRUTAL TRUTH of Christmas Origin

Episode Date: December 24, 2023

Today Jesse straps the boys in for a trip into the TRUE HISTORY of Christmas! Patreon - http://www.patreon.com/chilluminatipod MERCH - http://www.theyetee.com/collections/chilluminati Special thanks to our sponsors this episode - All you lovely people at HTTP://PATREON.COM/CHILLUMINATIPOD Butcherbox - http://www.butcherbox.com/chill Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - http://www.youtube.com/user/superbeardbros Editor - DeanCutty http://www.twitter.com/deancutty Art Commissioned by - http://www.mollyheadycarroll.com Theme - Matt Proft

Hello everybody and welcome back to the Chiluminati podcast. It was a 231 as always. I'm one of your host Mike Martin. Join my my two beautiful boys and from a Los Angeles where it's one day the earthquake will send you into the ocean and I'll never see you again. Dark Jesse and Alex how's it going? I'm introspective now. Wow. Wow.

Do you think like the welcoming with open arms? Oceans, the sea, the sighted areas. Oh, yeah. Is that how we find out mermaids are real? The ones that are like half a monkey on a fish for fish mermaids are hot. Dude, I'd fuck a mermaid. Absolutely. How though? And what way? I need specifics. Actually, we shouldn't. This is the first few seconds. I'd wait. No, we don't worry about YouTube. YouTube is not what our concern is. I just want to point out for the record. I literally have the very first line of my script for today is maybe something to listen to with the family this holiday season. So just we're already up to skip this to the point

where the episode starts. You just hopefully you're listening to this episode before you get to hang out with your family. And speaking of hanging out with your family, head over to patreon.com slash shelmanade pod where you can hang out with your online parasocial family. Alex, Mathis and Jesse, who you don't know, but it feels like you do. And if you want to keep us going, if you want to keep this train a chug chug chug in ahead through the winters, the the sparse winters uh you know head on over there and in return you get ad free episodes you get a mini-zone with every episode what else you get bespoke art what else do you get

faces on our mini-sode that's right you get a video version you get rotten popcorn episodes if you're on the highest tier, you get the T-shirts whenever we launch a T-shirt, which a new one has already in the works, also go buy our coins because they sold out. So go buy more, we're getting a second run. Yep. Add free episodes.

You name it. There's all kinds of shit in there. There's all kinds of good shit. And you know what, I'll even change the $10,000 tier temporarily. If you get it after this episode, the three of us will be your Christmas uncles. Yeah. And I'll write you, I will write you a postcard. I'll go by a postcard at the local store and I will write you as your uncle and I, you know, have a, or whatever

holiday you're celebrating. Doesn't it be Christmas? I'll write it like I'm in like a 18th century landowner. Oh, okay. I'll be like the winters here in Cox Far are so so chilly without your presence, Mattia, the war of northern aggression continues as the most South to Dixie. Well, where are you? So you're a confederator. That's happening, Jesse. Look, 18, I figured 18th century landowner will actually, that mean 19th century, so yeah, whatever.

18th century was just they weren't even ashamed. Here's a question. Is it against Patreon, TOS, to be like, if you join that $10,000 tier, we'll send you a $5,000 gift. No, we can do whatever we want. That is so goofy and amazing. Although it may be against Patreon, just to heads up. Yeah, if it is, you is, nobody should do this. But if it isn't, game on. We'll buy you the most sick twisted a cold nightmare you've ever seen. It's just me showing up and like with a doll.

This math is just like the Jersey devil and he has like a taser. Patreon.com slash zoom and I pod that may or may not be real. Check it out. It's a great website and it keeps the lights on. We'll leave the light on for you. That's we legally can't say. Yeah, because you leave the light on for us. We will. If you are afraid of the dark, we will consider leaving the light on for you. There you go, that works. That's nice. That's sweet.

This is exciting, it's a treat day. Everybody loves days like today, because it's Christmas is almost here. The holidays are in full swing, and our gift to you is a Jesse episode. Gentlemen, audience listening at home. I figured today I would do something light and fun. Maybe someone to listen to with the family this holiday season. So today we're starting with Forest Gods Death Ghosts. How do all these crazy things end up being associated with December? The holidays and Christmas? Well, my dear friends, that is what today's episode

is about. Because I wanted to take us to a place that I love in the world of mythologies and cryptids and paranormal, but like, what's really going on here, vibe? Where, you know, when you think about people walking on the ice in the north and they're told there's a monster under there, it's going to pull you under. Like, what was the real moral here? And so for this special holiday, I wanna talk to you about modern Christmas and how we got to where we're at. Because in its modern form,

Christmas is certainly held to be kind of like the religious holiday celebration of Jesus's birth, that kind of thing. But it's also just the day of, you know, hanging out in the secular world as like celebration and pajamas, really big coffee mugs. Yeah, a podcast about it, that kind of things that smell like you log in my pants. What exactly Christmas. And you know, for the religious part of it, I mean, literally is named mass on Christ day.

So like, it's not, it's not too hard to figure the whole thing out. Editorial note here, just wanna put this out there. While every year, there are plenty of folks who are like, it's time to put the Christ back in Christmas. The message of Christmas as far as I'm concerned is one that I think Jesus would support of like, yo, we good do each other and treat each other well and like hang out with your family

and like get a gift to someone. Like that kind of thing, just put it out there. Is there a version of the Bible where all of Jesus' quotes have like kind of like casual slang added to them? Dude, yeah. So honestly, I hope James Edition, there's the Nazarene Council Edition,

then there's the Chalumanadi Edition. Yeah, there's the Cheech and Chong edition It's just everyone's way more chill in this version of the Bible All the same shit happens, but everybody's just like whoa all right That's fucking cool cool. Yeah, just feel like if we could focus a lot more on that part of Jesus rather than like I'm not Religious at all. And I sell a bit Christmas. My whole family is not religious, but we celebrate Christmas because it's about hanging out with each other, and spending time enjoying everything.

Yeah, it's about loving just general claims. It's about bringing an actual living tree into the middle of your house and staring at it and covering it with lights. I don't think about it. Do you boys do real things? Because of Jesus. Because of Jesus. I've done both. Honestly. I what about nowadays? Do you have a tree in your apartment slash house nowadays?

It's it's got to be fake for the out pal. It's way my house is way too small for a real tree. I have a little baby little tiny ass little baby tree that can fit like six ornaments on it max. I invested in like a pretty nice fake tree a few years ago. I don't regret it at all. I don't regret it at all. I don't regret having a mop or sweep up pine needles every week. Do you feel like a good Christian when you have a Christmas tree in your house? Does it feel Christian? Not with the decorations I put on it.

Oh, I didn't know that's where we're going. You know what? Let's look, we'll get to that all. I'm very excited about this episode, because it's a fun one. So, you know, if the day of Christmas is at its core, about the birth of sweet little eight pound, four ounce baby Jesus, why? Or was it four pound eight ounce? Here you go watch.

How do you go watch that? I think they hook him up to like a meat hook and see how many buckets lifted up to see how much baby Jesus weighed. Like how do you figure that out? I was going off the joke from Taladega Knights, but like whatever works for you was fine. I was seeing a movie one time when it released.

I don't remember anything about it. That's what I was going off of. I don't think anyone actually knows anything about baby Jesus, but we'll get to that. A meat hook. You know, so if it's about a sweet little baby, why does it have so many crazy themes baked into the holiday?

Well, because it's Christmas is complicated, very complicated. And it's history to get where we are today is a long and winding road. And it's one that we're going to travel in this episode. And one that I think starts centuries after Jesus, sorry, JC, this is not an episode about you. This is an episode of people. Real ones out there, poor one out for Jesus. Sorry, JC. This is not an episode about you. This is an episode about people. Real ones out there pouring out for Jesus. Yeah. Sorry, JC. Even though this is about Christmas, it's not about you. That's it's to go. This is his birthday. He lived on Christmas. Still not about you. We'll see. We'll see. We'll see. Jesus in a narcissist. He doesn't care. Okay. And that's absolutely what's crazy about that. And I know you're joking, but that's kinda true. The fact that birthdays as a whole weren't the focus

of life in Christianity or Judaism. As far as early Christians were concerned, and we're talking like 17, 18, 100 years back, we're talking like 2,000 years ago. Celebrating being born was wacky. They thought it was weird and 100% pagan stuff. Like, there's no reason to celebrate someone being born. There's absolutely in the Bible no hint

of people just randomly celebrating birthdays and it's not right. It's not right. It's not right. It's not right. It's not right. It's not right. Self-important, set all, right? Like you don't really care. Like you don't matter. You're part of like a plan, right?

Like that's the whole world. I could get you every baby born. Every now. Yeah, according to the book, Lord of Birthdays, the original concept of celebrating someone's birth, it's roots were in witchcraft. The idea that on the day of your birth,

all the well wishes and greetings gave you like some kind of power, and the concept of birthday cakes and candles and all that stuff. It's all magic. It's like ancient magic and ancient Greece candles on cakes were used to celebrate Artemis, the goddess of moon and hunt of wild animals and childbirth. Even up to the point where if I may just interject history wise, we're even talking like 1800s in the US. They were still a lot of ritual magic that people were doing, even in the name of Jesus,

it was all very built in. In fact, back when, who's the Mormon guy, the guy who created Mormonism? Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith. Very much involved. If you do a lot of deep digging on him and like learn about his family and his history

and what he was doing and who he's working with before the Mormonism thing. There's a lot of like folk magic that lingered and still kind of does. Like it didn't go away. And that's kind of the topic of what we're getting into. Well, in ancient Egypt, they loved studying the stars, positions of stars, which gods were associated with which days and which stars and all that lined up to your birth and Basically what they would do is based on the position of stars and what God was there They would create your life path on your birthday and so your destiny was linked. So it's like astrology to your birth

Yeah, basically ancient Egyptian astrology and they took birthdays very seriously and It wasn't really a part of monotheism early on. Holotheus loved birthday, celebrated them like crazy. You know, there's always different guards on, gods and all these different things. And in monotheism, in early Christianity, they were like, we don't want that as part of our religion. The whole point is that we don't even care about

when you're born. For hundreds of years, people celebrated Jesus, right? But it wasn't a birth kind of thing. That's just something that happens to everyone, right? That's the concept of like everyone's born, it's like why is it important? You know, it's crazy is that that kind of means that at least in this regard, Jehovah's Witnesses are much closer to original Christianity in their practices than modern day because they don't celebrate birthdays, they don't, they don't think it's important at all, they don't really recognize the holiday stuff. It's interesting, it's just, even though there's very

much cult-like mentality with things like only 143,000 slots in heaven or whatever it is. So yeah, but it's interesting that like that aspect actually is closer to original Christianity than. Do you think of birthdays as a Christian thing? No, no, but I think the idea of celebrating. Celebrating. Jesus is birthday. But I guess Jesus is birthday, yeah. Right, it's like the focus of this,

but I don't think it's, I think birthdays, celebrations in general are popularized now because just depending on what you're at in life where you're at, it's a celebration of like, you know, I love my kid. And I want them to, I think it's more of that than, oh yeah, you know, a religious thing or a social thing. It's just like, it's fun, it's fun to do. In fact, early Christianity for a long time

had their own kind of birthday. It was one of those like, you may celebrate birthdays, but our birthdays are cooler. Basically, they were like, everyone is born, that's lame. But martyrdom, that's special, and that's your real and true birthday. And they would be honored to have a birthday,

Allah Jesus. So dying for your beliefs, way cooler than just being born and getting well wishes. That's so metal. You gotta earn those wishes. In high school for me, you know, around the time of like Columbine and all that stuff too, Marjoram was like a big topic in my school and about like how proud they were of the people who died.

Because remember, I know it's not true anymore, but at the time there was that story of like, I think the Columbine shooters asking if they believe in God. And if she said, you know, yes, they shot them. They killed them. Yeah. Which is actually really true. But that was huge in high school for me. That was like a lot of that a talk, especially in religion class, was focused on how like

amazing these people were and how God would reward them and all this stuff. Like it's still very big. You're probably wondering at this point, okay, so if they aren't celebrating birthdays, how 2000 years later in December of 2023, are we celebrating the birth of Jesus by gifting presence under a tree visited by a man with flying reindeer, right? Like how did we get there?

So let's go back 2000 years to Rome. And around this time of year, especially right now, they be celebrating what is called saturnalia or saturnali depends on which one you want to read, but it doesn't matter. Sounds like a kombucha. Yeah. Yeah. The festival was held in honor of the Roman god Saturn, who not only threw righteous parties, but got a planet named after him. Saturn is the God of time, wealth, agriculture, liberation, generation, and his mythological reign was considered the golden age for all. And his festival, Satinalia, was a celebration of all that. And more importantly, it was a beloved Roman holiday. And in fact,

it was a Greek holiday before called Kronia, which is Kronos, which was the Titan of time and all this exact same things, basically, a Saturn. I kicked that dude's ass and got a warrant. And what I love about this is it goes to show something we're going to see today, which is most traditions that we have. Even to this day, morphed and changed and adapted from other cultures in the past, and their root stretch back like thousands of years. Thank you so much to Butcherbox for sponsoring today's episode. Butcherbox has all you need for a tasty,

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or treat yourself, that's what I do. Sign up today at Butcherbox.com slash chill and use code chill to choose your free steak for a year and get $20 off. That's butcherbox.com slash chill and use code chill for this special. Thank you so much to butcher box for sponsoring today's episode. Real quick, just some like basics of Saturnalia. First off, it was a very, very popular holiday. For the most part, Romans had plenty of gods

and plenty of days and plenty of ways to commemorate them, but they didn't happen every year. It would be kind of like, if we're feeling it, we're gonna do it. But Saturnalia helped that happened every year. And it was just absolutely like, raunchulous, it was just absolutely debatuous or what? Well, so it was big.

It, depending on the Emperor, it would be anywhere between five to seven days. Sometimes it was two, but it would be, Oh my God, pretty big. And the festival focused on the winter solstice, the darkening of the days, it would start around the 17th, and then on average, end on the winter solstice, the darkening of the days, it would start around the 17th and that on average end on the 23rd.

Sure, it was a public holiday and it was one for families to celebrate as well, but really it was like a private thing. You in the home, you would prepare this private celebration, you would give gifts, and there's straight up records of gift giving. And I wanted to include this because it's amazing to me, but just as an example, they give wooden trinkets or exotic animals, or again, because slavery was definitely a thing in ancient Rome that gift people. And

to prove that nothing changes and I absolutely love this must I'm needed to include this. There's a translated book called Catalyst, The Poems. And in that it's just a bunch of poems from this must, I needed to include this. There's a translated book called Catalyst, The Poems. And in that, it's just a bunch of poems from this dude, Catalyst. And in, in it, he has one called, What a Book, where his friend, Calvis, gives him a book for Saturnalia, and he hates the author. And his response to getting the book is, If I didn't love you more than my eyes, most delightful Calvis, I I didn't love you more than my eyes, most delightful Calvus, I dislike you for this gift. He then says, you won't get away with this crime.

When it's light enough, I'll run to the copious book stalls. I'll acquire books from writers you hate and repay you for this suffering. I love it. Humans haven't changed. Did Benjamin Franklin write this? Yeah. Maybe it's the translated version of like

the ancient Roman dude, so maybe. He's just like, you're lucky. I love you, right this? Yeah. And maybe it's the translated version of like the ancient Roman dude, so maybe. He's just like, you're lucky, I love you, you shithead. And I'm gonna get you something so much worse. So just like, wait. It's great, it's such a human reaction. It's like the vibe of those two guys from love, actually. And then, Satinalia also had a really wacky bit to it. And this I think is what you're going to talk about

like the debaturist stuff, Alex, where it was, at first, like the first big thing is, no to it. And this I think is what you're going to talk about like the debaturist stuff, Alex, where it was, at first, like the first big thing is no togas. Get rid of the togas instead, we're wearing the most colorful, wacky outfits we can find, basically ancient Roman ugly sweaters. Like they just dress like garish? Yeah, on purpose. That's great.

And I would have to imagine because it's based off the Solstice, it's a dark time, the sun's going down earlier, it's getting colder, crops, it's harder to get those crops, right? They're just acting out because they need a little release. And so it's like, all right, Togas, get them out of here, let's get wacky. Meanwhile, things like roll reversal, what would happen. So every Saturnalia, I don't know how much of this is a full roll switch, but basically masters would become slaves, slaves would become masters. I have to imagine there was a limit, you know what I mean? I don't think you'd be like, yeah, yeah, you control everything.

I don't think that's what happened, but, you know, the masters would serve the slave food or allow them to make the rules of the house for a day. They're like, oh, no, he's doing it. We're giving, oh, he's, oh, look, he's, yeah. Like they're not actually giving control, too. When you think about it, you're not actually giving control, right? It's just like, it's like, what's the movie?

The Disney movie, right? It's the opposite day. Yeah, hunchback of Notre Dame. Exactly, it has that same vibe. In fact, they would pick a ruler for the festival. And it would be in the home or in the city or whatever, they'd pick a ruler, very similar to that, like King of Fools bit.

And what it was, it would pick a ruler very similar to that like King of Fools bit. And what it was is to be a child or, you know, the woman would be in charge. Crazy horse. Or silly, but I'm a movie in charge. Right. Yeah, and then something with boobies. Then what they do is they gift each other these basically early holiday cards with various quotes and sayings on them as part of the ritual. And then what would happen is the person who was in charge, they basically said they

were a micro-emperor and unlike real Rome, which was there was an emperor ruling over the order, this was there was an emperor ruling over the chaos, which is why there was, it was always topsy-turvy day, right? Is that kind of thing? So it's like Satan. I guess maybe if you want to make it biblical, but yeah, it was none of that. It was just like them acknowledging that their lives are so regulated by the Roman Empire, that for this time period, let's get crazy and forget about all that,

and we instead will be regulated by like the five-year-old. Like that kind of five. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we're still order. The emperor still like don't mess this up. I'll kill some people. But in that moment, they got to have some fun. In order to really kind of understand what they were going for,

it's just this thing that is this, I think for us, right? We think about winter. It's colder, we gotta put on a coat, it's gonna get dark early, but really our lives don't change that much. For most people up until I would say the 1900s, winter was rough. One of the hardest things to live through,

people died in the cold all the time, there wasn't enough food. So the way to understand this is, this is an emotional release. These people are like, that still happens out here in Texas though. Like you tell me that's still not that's not this supposed to be not a thing anymore. Wait a minute. Hundreds of people died last year. Yeah, it shouldn't happen in a society where we can make it not happen. But for these people, even if they wanted to, they couldn't prevent it, right? Which is why for most of history, most people in big civilizations lived

in places where it was warm most of the time. Because the more north or south you went, the colder it would get and the more it would mess you up. Anyway, from a second century AD to the fourth century AD, Rome did its Rome thing and went around conquering the known world, or at least trying to. And this once for the gamers, Rome was like World of Warcraft.

In that, it is at its best when it's taking things other had others had done. And making it a part of its own empire, Warcraft is like that with game mechanics, we'll just borrow them, air quotes from other MMOs. Rome was the same thing, with everything from daily worship to like society to construction to ever they would just went around like that's a good idea we'll use that and they made it better somehow that's like what they did. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that I think it's not important it's like nothing wrong not reinventing like the wheel it's okay to take the wheel and like the wheel's great let's just like shine up the wheel a bit and do that yeah and it's where would you say we are

in if in the state of world warcraft today where would you say we are in the history of Rome? Oh, I mean, just out of curiosity. I was definitely post Byzantine. Like, how Stanton Opal is already built. We're wrapping it up, you think? I think, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I was explaining Jeff Keely's looking right at your eyeballs. Look at these guy, time to get off the stage.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't know how close we are to like the last dudes riding horses versus tanks, but like I feel like, you know, it'll eventually happen. So this explains again why Roman gods are similar to Greek gods, right? They're just renamed or how ancient Egyptian ideas ended up being things in Roman life that they really fixated on. We've talked about this before on this podcast, and I think we should always say it

because it's so fascinating. Ancient Rome for us was 2000 years ago. Ancient Egypt for them was 2000 years ago. You know what I mean? Like to them, ancient Egypt was their ancient thing. They were like, whoa, those guys were crazy. It's an awful way to be unimaginably different, right? Like, your brain can't wrap your mind around it.

The exact same thing if they had ancient TikTok in Rome, they would be having videos like, how often do Roman men think of ancient Egypt? It would be that vibe. You all went to 4T25 AD and all the Romans were gone. Every single Roman was gone. I went into a baseball stadium and there were no Romans in there. The Colosseum was empty. So in the second century AD, Christianity still thing, 200 years after Jesus, you know,

it's not a huge thing, but it's a thing. And there's multiple little groups popping up all over the place. And the Romans saw some merit to it. They were like, okay, all right. All right, Jesus. And it was during this time that a dude named Sextus Julius Afrocanos. Yes.

What a fucking great name. I, yes. Yeah. Say that one more time. Man who, Say that, I'm going to the state house tomorrow. And I'm going,

you have to call him to Sextus Julius Afrocanos. And I'm going to see if I can remember it. I'm not writing it down and I'll let you know what my name is next week. Sexist Julius is my nephew's new. Sexist Julius Afrocanos. Nephew with the vampire teeth is going to be named. This is a dude that we don't know a lot about, but we do know that he traveled all over Rome and more importantly all over the known world.

This guy's whole life was he went to Asia, he went to Europe, he went to Africa, like his name says. And eventually he settles in Palestine. And in 222 AD, he's made the regional ambassador to Rome. And according to Encyclopedia Britannica, he becomes protégé of Emperor Severus Alexander, which is also... That's the evil. That's Alexander the evil instead of Alexander the

Severus Alexander. He was a warhammer emperor. Don't I think I came across him in road trader actually. Yeah, Emperor. Yeah, you know, it's weird. He's got like one of those robo skulls. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. He's there for the machine god. It's pretty crazy. Um, during this time in Palestine, he was just like living his life, talking to the people, and at some point, I don't know when this was, I don't know what sparked this, but he decided to set about creating the chronographie eye, which is a five volume text on all the sacred, all the profane, the entire history from creation to the modern day,

including everything the Romans picked up along the way, everything. And we're talking Greek mythology, Judeic history, tribal ideology from Europe, Egyptian, and Caldine chronologies, timelines from the Bible, so much more. Basically, this dude was trying to do what Mathis does with aliens, ghosts, encrypted, and trying to find a way to combine them all into one. How dare you? Big story.

One big girlfriend. How dare you? I'm just trying to bring truth to the people, trying to lift the veil from your eyes. You're trying to lift the skirts of the cosmos is what you're trying to do. And this dude is the first person as far as we're aware who gave Jesus a birthday.

Again, because he wasn't Christian, he was just like a normal Roman dude. So a birthday is like a thing for him. And he said, going through it all, that a good day for this was the 25th of December. As you know, as we said, Sadden Aliah went from the 17th of December to roughly the 23rd, sometimes longer.

But on the 25th, after all that was over, they celebrated a festival called Dia Solas Invicti Nati, or Day of the Birth of the Unconquered Sun, which basically is a celebration that like, we made it through the darkest days of winter, it's gonna get better now. That's what it was.

Whoa. And what's great about this, which I'm sure sexist, Julius Afro-Canis thought about, was like, it's super fitting if you're a Christian and you're celebrating Jesus' birthday. He probably thought like, this is a great place to put it for people who are Christian. And so he marked it on the 25th because he's like, rebirth the sun, birth of the sun, shacks out. And so that's what he did. Obviously,

there's many questions about whether that's even, could even possibly remotely be accurate, but like, to this dude, it doesn't matter. The big problem for Christians at the time was them recording Jesus' birthday. They were like, no, what do you talk? First, this seems like some sort of appropriation association of a pagan holiday

with our Christian moment, and we don't want that. Like this is a huge moment for us. It's a big part of the Bible, and y'all are just like, you're still on the 25th, and it's very similar to Saturnalia. And so they were not pleased with that. It just fits, man. It just fits. He's just saying what that? He's just being named Michael Scott, man. He's just writing his own fucking shit. This is like, he made his own stuff.

Michael Skarn script. Again, sex, this, not a Christian, just like a Roman dude living in Palestine at the time. Yeah, exactly. He's just a dude. And for the record, I think most scholars assume Jesus must have been born in the spring because of shepherds in sheep, which like wouldn't be around in winter. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I think that's what they assume, but like, doesn't matter, not really at the end of

the day. No. However, it wasn't until the fourth century AD that Emperor Constantine, the first emperor who just openly declared his support for Christianity, really pushed the idea forward. It was this guy that was like, okay, we're going to be a Roman Christian Empire. The funny part is, and I absolutely love this because just listen to this, this is so good. No one really knows what his motives were for all of this. There are many, many opinions about what he was really trying to do.

Was he really a believer, right? Because at this time, again, Christianity not huge. He made it huge. He spent so much money making it huge. But not really huge. And this story is, again, just so many good story history, I love this. He wasn't baptized until right before his death on his deathbed. And according to one of the stories, which is actually great, I love this.

People are like, why did he get baptized right then? Why wait? And he said, if you waited till the last moment, he can't tarnish his freshly baptized soul so he's definitely getting into heaven. Dude found a loophole. Dude is a genius, bro. Holy shit.

I was like, what? He's like min maxing the rule. I was raised, I was raised again, I've said it mid times. I was Roman Catholic specifically. But the whole thing is if you're not baptized, your soul goes to purgatory. You just get stuck in the forever waiting room and never get to go anywhere. Doesn't matter if you died from coming out your mom's hoo-haw, it doesn't matter. If you weren't baptized, the rule is purgatory. I mean, that's why if you look at all the famous things like

Dante's and Ferno or like all the famous texts that deal with the afterlife, most of the Greeks and Romans and all those people, most of them are just stuck in purgatory or they're in like the top levels of hell. Yeah. And they had no saying it. It's just like, the rules, dummy.

That's just the rules you idiot. Yeah. It's fascinating. But for the Romans at the time of Constantine, I guess they were starting to convert. Was it forced? Was it not who knows at this point who cares? But eventually Constantine was, you know,

putting out all the positive Christian vibes. He's like, we're gonna change this and do this and fix this and take it to the world. But it was troubling because like I said, Christianity was like a big organized thing at this time. It was straight up just multiple little tiny groups of people worshipping in their own ways. Very similar to I would imagine the United States, there's a lot of like variations on the idea and even more so during this time. And you know, he was trying to figure out, all right, what do I do with this?

Because I can't say we're all Christian and try to make people Christian, they're going to be like, well, what does that mean? How do we celebrate? When do we celebrate? What do we celebrate? Just a PR disaster is what is all is? Yeah, it's just not much thought went into it But I imagine when your emperor nominee people are like

Excuse me sir. Should we work us up before you just a clear the fuck of your last Christian. Yeah and so He's totally overwhelmed by the whole thing and that's why he creates, and some is the first council of Nicaea to work through the doctrine of what the entire Roman Empire's Christian Catholic whatever ideology is going to be and figure it out. The next thing, and this wasn't like the big one that sort of codified everything. This was just, we need to get all get on the same page. And so the next thing he did was suppress all the other religions. He's like, we can't have this note thing if people are still on the old thing. This involved everything from changing coins to changing buildings to tearing down buildings.

Um, he was not a fan of it, but there was a lot of pushback so we couldn't completely do everything you wanted. Then, like Rome always does, they kind of went out and pushed it to the people. And the more they conquered, sure they took things, but now instead of taking things back and only leaving them with like Roman control, now they were saying, hey, you're Christian. People are like, what is that? What even is that? How's it even work?

And again, another crazy story that I found is that Constantine wrote to all the kingdoms nearby. And one of them was the Sass, the Sass and me and peoples. Short, that's how you say that. Set these Sass and screed folks. The Sass and screed peoples. Brotherhood.

And except it's Sass, they're the Sassy peoples. Is the Sass and me and people. Anyway, he messaged them and said, Christians around the world are under Roman protection treat them right. And so this dude shepore the second, the leader of one of these groups literally just made the decree to arrest the chief of the Christians that lived there, keep him in prison until he agrees to pay a ton of tax Basically, he's like, yeah, no, we'll protect them. They owe us a lot of money

And then I mean your Rome everyone around you's like we hate Rome And so he's like we're but it just the man just made it more complicated. It just made it way worse What the hell? But it spread it's cause of Constantine that it's spread and for the long road ahead of many many hundreds of years You know, it was a it was a thing that Rome tried to do and then we go back and forth They changed stuff up, but it was at this point. It was what many people consider to be the biggest change in Western society Where up until this point most Western society was society was like, we have like 50 gods, and they're doing all this stuff.

And then this dude comes in and says, because I'm in charge, I'm changing it to monotheism deal with it. And that became sort of the big change in the future of what the world would become, at least in the West. For our purposes, however, the close proximity of Jesus's Roman chosen birthday to Saturnalia

and Constantine's big push and funding of Christian's beliefs and churches, etc. in Rome, it's why these two holidays slowly merged together and the idea of merry-making and celebration and gift-giving and feasts were combined with the birth of Jesus. And I actually think again, the synergy is pretty good. It fits together because the match I show up in the story with gifts for Jesus. And so it feels like one of those things where probably sexist is sitting back like,

I did a good job. You know what I mean? Just literally like when a producer comes into your project who's got like totally different goals than you and they just wanna get their hands on it. And they, you know, they're more invested in the short term than the long term on it and they make a bunch of changes. That's the vibe.

Yeah, except in this one, the change is somehow like bit with what already existed. And yeah, it's different than what the original message was, but somehow it's just like, okay, it's easier to buy in. I don't know, maybe that's why it was so successful. It's because it's so easily adapted to things that already existed that it was so successful people to embrace it. Because they didn't have to really change much

about what they were doing. It was just a focus of what it was. I honestly don't know, it's fascinating. I was looking up to where I swear I thought Constantine was given st. Hood because of his actions and stuff and the orthodox church apparently is considered a saint but he is not considered a saint elsewhere though some kind of consider him like an unofficial saint because of because of him Christianity was able to flourish

Sure, I'm just curious. I'm sorry just random fact that I don't know it's good to know you if we're historying this episode Let's do it. I am just curiosity but You know the next like said, the next few hundred years, it was kind of back and forth this and that. It wasn't until the ninth century that it was even considered a major holiday like Easter or good Friday. Again, like I said, this was about birth and most Christians only cared about the martyrdom and the death and resurrection. So it wasn't, it wasn't like a big thing for people, despite the fact that everyone celebrated it.

It would be kind of like, when you think of holidays, we celebrate now, think of one that you're kind of like, all right, like I'll take the day off, but like, I don't care. You know, it's like that kind of thing. Yeah, also, last bit, here we go. His mother, Helena, did become a saint because she was responsible for his conversion.

And because of her efforts to discover the true cross, she is considered the patron saint of archaeologists and new discoveries. It's also wall. And Catholics have saints and saints being specific to things and praying to certain saints for certain things. I didn't know that was weird until I got out of stepped out of the

Catholic school and stuff. And that's very, in my opinion, it's very pagan-esque in that you're like, you are praying to these specific people who kind of wield God's power through them in this kind of supernatural way. Like, if you lost something, there's a saint that you pray to to help you find whatever you lost, like that kind of thing. I mean, even in this country, even though it 100% isn't about the actions that occurred, St. Patrick's Day. We all celebrate it, whether we acknowledge St. Patrick and getting snakes out of Ireland or not, we're all like green beer, green shirts, let's get drunk. It's a celebration

of that dude. There's no way Halloween is like traditional, right? Like, just like packaged branded candy. Actually don't really know, yeah. I don't know the origins of Halloween. Oh yeah, but like all Hall of Zeeve, that whole thing, I mean, it's a thing that exists. They are the dead.

But again, that also relates kind of to Christmas and we'll get there, which is crazy. So as Rome expands, they brought more and more of their traditions and customs into the fold, and those customs over the next 300, 400 years morphed the celebration again in ways that we consider Christmas to be today. The Christmas tree, for example, how on earth do we end up with a tree as part of Christmas? Well, legend is that Scandinavia, right? Exactly. Northern Europeans who were converted to Christianity just continued to use them because of the time it was used to scare away evil spirits

and to house like they put bobbles and stuff in it but at times like food and things for birds to eat during winter. And they just converted it's like yeah instead of scary winter demons, it's the devil. We'll scare away the devil. And there's like a lot of different variations on that and that story and I'm sure there's a million different versions of where it really came from. That's kind of the vibe. The first actual recorded information we have is from the Renaissance Humanist Sebastian Brent in 1494, who basically says that people would start placing firtree branches in their houses. And the idea of bringing indoors,

as far as I can tell, is because of a popular play in the Middle Ages about Adam and Eve, where they use a firtree to hang apples to represent the garden of Eden in the play. And so people are like, oh, that's fun, let's bring it inside. So that's what the tree is. The ornaments are apples. Yeah. From the Garden of Eden. It was the play. Yeah. There was a popular play in the Middle Ages.

So the Christmas tree is Christian imagery? Yeah. Because in the, in the, that's fucking crazy. In Europe, they didn't have like in the winter. They don't have trees that they can hang. There's not like, you know, it's like there's palm trees or trees, it's furchries. That's it. That's all you got there alive in the winter. So if you're doing a play about Adam and Eve, you're putting that down and it becomes a symbol of kind of what they were doing.

That's crazy. Over the course of the 16, 1600s and 1700s, it became more and more of the tree we know today. And this symbolism about the tree, it all sort of like went from, oh, this is a thing we're using in a play because it's all we have to, we're gonna tie stuff to it to make it more justified.

So adding a star, adding candles, all those different things were added to it to make it more relevant to the holiday. Because originally, again, it's just what was there, and it was used as symbolism. It's kind of like when you think of the devil, right? If you are religious in any way or you just know of Christian imagery, most images of what we think the devil are come from paintings and books and anything but the Bible. It's all expanded universe stuff. Like it really is. It's all additional things added.

And I stand by my statement, I would fuck Satan. He's how I would fuck Satan. In the Bible, he's the most beautiful. But there is no, and then Satan turned into a hoofed creature, well that's red, and he's like, yeah, poke you with my stick, like that doesn't exist. No, it doesn't have imagery though, come from book of revelations where this descriptions

of like the beast and maybe people are mixing kind of like that in Satan? Oh sure, sure, sure. There's definitely some what again book of revelations is fire. You got to read is such a one of the coolest thing. It's comic book level only part of the Bible when I had to read it like growing up as a kid that I was like, is she cool? What the fuck is crazy? But I think most of it comes from people probably taking that as a starting point and then painting it or Milton and it, right? Where Milton has this whole crazy ass like this is what the devil looks like now, like that kind of stuff. It's all fanfiction at this point,

which is fascinating to me. So then once we have this sort of tree thing going on, right? We get closer to what Christmas is today. And the reason why I'm like stressing all the connections to winter solstice and the combining of beliefs and the inclusion of people from northern Europe and their interpretations and all this stuff, the gift giving, the mariment, all of it being associated with Jesus' birth is because this was all again in the winter.

And like I said before, before the 1900s, or I guess today in Texas, winters were terrible. You weren't celebrating because it was like a fun thing to do, you were celebrating because you were relieved that one, you were living through just how hard of a winter it was, two, you were trying to forget how terrible it is in winter, because you it was, two, you were trying to forget how terrible it is in winter because you're like, well, we got beef jerky and hard

tack for another two months, or you're just trying to celebrate and have a release to what's going on. It's just one of those things that like works, it just like works, like a balanced activity that's like in harmony with how the world works, right? Like that's the whole point. Yeah, absolutely. Which saint do you think i need to pray to first stable power grid in texas this year.

Is there a saint of electricity i don't i don't if they if there was i was never taught about him maybe maybe there is i saint of lightning i don't know very a little bit of a saint very Barry Allen. So again if you lived in winters It was rough It was it was really rough chances are sometimes you didn't live through winter at all so a lot of these celebrations were taking place when it's cold It's dark you're low on food your high on booze and It's not just the celebration of, you know, the birth of Jesus or whatever.

It's the celebration of making it through another winter and laughing in the face of death. And you can say Jesus being born adds to that, right? And one of the things people would do when laughing in the face of death or darkness is scaring the crap out of each other. It's a spooky time. There's ghost stories, that's why Christmas ghost stories are famous. There's some of those famous ones because during this time period, everyone gets together. It's gift giving focus.

They're children present and children, and I think most of us love to get scared at some point. The like scary story is popular for that reason. It's exciting. Yeah. And one of the oldest traditions around the winter solstice was the wild hunt. This concept of a pagan concept, by the way, of ghosts, of this ghostly procession across the sky during the winter solstice.

You're like, look up and see it. Now, could it be a Royal Bory house? Probably, but it's this idea of just like, woo, we're gonna get ya. Bayowolf is literally the oldest surviving horror story, potentially ghost story from this type of celebration. We don't know what that is. Yeah, it's a Scandinavian tale about a prince

who fights the monster Grendel and has tons of the Grendel is literally described as a spirit or death shadow gliding across the land. So cool. According to the Open University in 1611, Shakespeare wrote The Winter's Tale, which includes the line, a sad tale's best for winter, I have one of sprites and goblins. Two centuries later, Mary Shelley, as a teenager, writes a snowy wasteland story called Frankenstein. And it becomes one of those popular stories in the world. She was a teenager. How do you not know that? She was a teenager when she wrote it.

She's supposed to be like 19 years old or 16 years old or something and there's a, she got challenged to a contest to write the best story and she wrote that. Yeah. I don't know how real that is, but that's the deal, right? Yeah, I guess she wrote it. The thing is she wrote it in the summer in Switzerland, but the fact that she used the winter as the scary because again, winter's are terrifying up until recently, we have it pretty damn good.

Consider it. Oh man, seasonal depression is pretty rough to deal with that. Whoa, wait till we get there, my friend. And then we've included it. In Victorian England, they specialized in talking about this modern, jolly fun holiday and then taking all the old stories and combining them with that because they love the idea of behind every happy moment. There's something lurking and waiting to get you.

Not because they believed it was going to get you because it was Victorian times they just like to get scared from crazy stuff. So they would take things like Christmas and add a scary element to it because it's one of the happiest holidays. Everyone's like, eh, they're Christmas, somebody will get a latte. You know, and they're like, no, but a latte is a ghost. They loved that stuff.

I don't know, man. Victoria, it's dangerous too. You could scrape yourself on a nail and that could just be it for you. Again, you're absolutely correct. Yeah. I think we just take a lot for granted the last couple generations of humanity have had,

at least here in the West, let's be very clear on this, have had it pretty easy considering where we came from. Specifically when, you know, in 1947 when a UFO crashed and things got really good for us, but that's a different conversation. Well, oh, of course. This in the Victorian period, this was the time when a Christmas Carol was published. A story that has a happy ending and a wonderful message, but is literally about ghosts and ghouls and time travel and death and all sorts of stuff.

It's a six story. I love it. It's a pretty good story. This adaptive style of combining the celebratory, right? All these things that we've taken from history and combined with it. Over the last couple hundred years, the scary stuff was then brought into that, because as we become more modern as a society, we've had to be less and less genuinely afraid,

and now we can have time to just be afraid for the fact that it's fun to be afraid sometimes. Like human nature, we like getting scared sometimes. And that scary aspect of Christmas, mixed with the ancient, not just religious, but also like communal aspects of Christmas mixed with the ancient not just religious, but also like communal aspects of Christmas. It's what makes it such an interesting holiday. It's both joyous and religious and stressful and now it's taxing and expensive, right? But also

we have this acknowledgement as a species that we're still kind of hardwired to be depressed and a little overwhelmed by the cold and the darkness and the lifelessness around us and just winter sucks and that's why there is such a thing as seasonal depression. It exists because it's built into who we are as people. We are just like, I need to harboring. There was a time period where people would get in the house and just stay in the house. It sounds so appealing.

Because outside, they would freeze the death. What are you gonna do? I mean, if you're out in the north of anywhere above like whatever parallel it is, what are you literally supposed to do? How could you literally remain productive? That's what I tell people when they ask, why I never leave the house,

I'm just trying to connect to my ancestors. Well, it's just more like, it makes so much sense why in modern times, when nothing ever stops, that the holidays are associated with depression and not wanting to do things and being burnt out and just hating life. And I think it's because of that because you don't get to sit by the fire any of your sausages that you made all year.

Yeah, you're just doing what you did in the summer, but cold now. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like you're just like cool. All right. And it wears you down. I think Alex is right that for a long period of time, if you were a farmer, life would shut down for you. You'd eat the food that you made two months ago and put in like salt, and then you'd sit inside and drink for three or four months, and you'd be like, all right, back to work in the spring. That's what we did.

We shut down as a society, because it was just easier. Yeah, I mean, we've talked about before, but we as humans live completely counterintuitively to how we are built to live. Like, we're not supposed to have a nine to five and sleep at night, we're supposed to nap through the day and you know, humans did a lot of...

Sounds like some sort of indictment of capitalism. Oh, no, no, I would never, I would never. Please sorry, Jess, you didn't even interrupt, continue. But I think that no matter what is you celebrate about Christmas, be it the day or the religious aspects of it or just the fun of the red and green and all that stuff, it all comes from this long history of humanity where starting back at our like, we're in the forest, our pagan roots, all the way through to today, 2000 years of history has led us to what Christmas is. It's both happy and fun, it's both like spooky and weird, it's both this thing that is religious and also not. And

it's one of those things where, you know, as we acknowledge all of that, you can take time to understand and see why it's so widely celebrated. Even by people who are not invested in any way in Jesus at all, it's a fun thing to celebrate. And it's because of the way it's weaved through culture. And all the things we put together to make it one of the biggest holidays of the year. It's a whole month of things. And during this month, there's also other major holidays occurring. But for much of the world, it's still the thing people put up everywhere and celebrate

and show off. Because it's fun. And it's ingrained into all of society because of all the things in history that made it a part of And I love that that is kind of the story of one specific holiday and It's fascinating that it is what it is because of 2000 years of change and adaptation and adjustment to make it what it is now. And who knows?

In 2000 years, it may not even be a thing. The fun of it too is how rigid it does feel now, like how traditional and unchanging and ancient of a holiday Christmas feels like. You know what I mean? Like at least when I've been alive, like for a couple decades, like Christmas hasn't changed that much in terms of how it's celebrated, but it has, of course, like in ways that you can track even, but like, I don't know, like, it's interesting to me that we ascribe, like the magic of Christmas or the power of something like Christmas is like that there is this meme of this day that's powerful that everybody cares about that's on this day. of this day, that's powerful that everybody cares about that's on this day.

And even though it doesn't exactly keep the same meaning at all times, there's something about this one thing that all of life of our species has decided is important for certain reasons and certain parts of the world. And it seems to be almost like a natural thing we do. Interesting, I don't know, interesting. There's a lot, not to get too introspective on humanity, but it's interesting looking, there's a lot of lot, like, not to get too, like, introspective on humanity, but it's interesting looking,

like there's a lot of humanity that you, like, look at now, and you're like, oh, that's actually just kind of the same as it was a thousand years ago, we just have technology, instead, you know, like even America as an example, is what I would consider an empire, you know, in the same way that Rome may have been, they had states, they had, you know, their own individual, we have way more freedoms, obviously,

than maybe Rome did back then, but we kind of always, they got the winter individual. We have way more freedoms, obviously, than maybe Rome did back then. But we kind of always, they got the winter off though, just says. That's true. They got more days off than we do. That's real. Humans always kind of fall into similar roles of, there's the surfs, now there's just the lower class,

the people who in capitalism are just getting fucked. And now instead of having the the merchant entertain like like class, now that's like where middle class kind of is that that upper middle class area is like the merchant class quote-unquote where they get some of the finer things in life, but they don't live in a castle like the fucking King does. They might have a bigger house, but they don't live, you know, like hand over. Yeah, they're not a Duke. Yeah, exactly. And we still have all that now. We just call it different things. It's all humanity just

takes old things and just wraps them in new terms and tries to adapt with the modern day kind of tools that are disposal. Yeah, and it's interesting to see that, you know, Alex was talking about Halloween, right? Halloween from where it is to where it is now, it's so much more commercialized. But it's more fun than what it was. If you think about what Halloween was originally, like- That's more serious. There are other cabbages at each other. People, like, you know, it's not a great holiday to start, and we made it more fun.

And again, because we took the spooky bits, which is very similar to Christmas, but reverse. We took the spooky bits and said, well, how could it make spooky fun? And Christmas is like, how could it make fun spooky? And add sort of like a supernatural element to it. And they just flipped it, which I think is why people relate and love the nightmare of our Christmas. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

This is both combined. Yes. And even to parts of the world, there's Kramis, man. You know, and Kramis is fucking spooky shit. Yeah, that's actually like low-key a pretty good movie too. You know, he's a scary dude who used to actually hit kid, whack, children, you know, back in the day. It's scary.

This is still horror there. Have you seen the movie, Krampus? Yeah. Yes, I have. Yes, actually, and that was fun. Pretty straightforward little fun family Christmas movie that is just scary enough, and it's exactly what you're saying. Like, the implied thing is like, if you don't believe in the magic of Christmas, there's a horror

element to it and it's that same sort of fascination with something being scary about it. And a lot of that goes back to things we talked about in this podcast before with cryptids and stories of various things that it kind of is. The end of the day. Christmas is for as much as people are like, it's a religious holiday. It is also a secular get your kids to be good for a full year holiday. Yeah. They trick and gimmick is you all get gifts if you aren't good. And it's the same thing. It's on the exact same level. It's like, if you walk out of the ice, the monster will pull you under. We literally have elf on a shelf now level. It's like, if you walk out under the ice, the monster will pull you under.

We literally have elf on a shelf now where parents can be like, watch you, watch you. Watch and you. It's just like, really creepy. It's almost like, though, adding horror to us to a meme in culture is like the same as putting a thumbnail of somebody in front of it to like get you to like

remember to pay attention to it. Yeah, for our podcast listeners, Alex is making the surprised open mouth face that you see on pretty much every very popular YouTube video out there. Well, thank you, Jesse. That's a great topic. I appreciate that.

I love like, yeah, the history of like pagan like practices and rituals mixed in with Christianity as that turning of the times, it's fascinating because there's so much of st. warship in some ways built from people who were still practicing pagan prayer, but disguising it under Christianity so they didn't get in trouble. That also mixes in as a whole other topic. And it also speaks to humanity in general, the idea that the reason why Christianity took off

and became as popular as it was, wasn't cause it was forced on people. It's cause they mixed it with other things on the low and so people can be more accepting of what it was. And that's kind of what humanity should be doing at all times, like look, you and I disagree, work, we find consensus on this and like figure it out. And that's what they did with most things in history.

Christianity is just one example for this topic, but most things in history were like, okay, we're not in impasse. How do we fix this? It's either that or they kill each other. No, it's like, we've killed a lot of you, it hasn't worked yet. Can we find a middle ground? If the answer's no, back to killing each other. If the answer's like, we've killed a lot of you. It hasn't worked yet. Can we find a middle ground?

If the answer's no, back to killing each other. If the answer's yes, all right, we can kind of move on. Yeah, it's wild, but that's humanity, baby. Yeah, yeah, for better or for worse. Well, thank you guys, everybody for listening. Enjoy your holidays. May the be fun, safe. Hope you get everything you want.

If you get anything, I hope you, if you're not getting anything, you just have a good relaxing day for that day. Merry Christmas, everyone. You know what, on that, we're out of here. I hope you if you're not getting anything you just have a good relaxing day for that day You know on that we're out of here patreon.com for you to be on the pot for the mini-sauce this week patreon.com slash Chiluminati pot everyone Me and my wife were sitting outside and delging on our porch one night enjoying ourselves

I needed to go to the bathroom, so I stepped back inside and after a few moments I hear my wife go, holy shit get out here! So I quickly dash back outside and she's looking up the sky and fall. I look up to her and there's a perfect line of dozen lights traveling across the sky. 1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1-1.5-1-1.5-1. Thank you.