Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 237 - Dream Invaders - Part 1

Episode Date: February 4, 2024

Have you seen This Man? Alex takes Mike and Jesse down the This Man Rabbit hole this week on Chilluminati Podcast. MERCH - http://www.theyetee.com/collections/chilluminati Special thanks to our sponsors this episode - All you lovely people at HTTP://PATREON.COM/CHILLUMINATIPOD Hello Fresh - http://www.hellofresh.com/chillfree PROMO CODE: chillfree Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - http://www.youtube.com/user/superbeardbros Editor - DeanCutty http://www.twitter.com/deancutty Art Commissioned by - http://www.mollyheadycarroll.com Theme - Matt Proft SOURCE: https://www.thisman.org/

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Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Chulamani podcast, episode 237. As always, I'm one of your host, Mike Martin, joined today by none other than Jesse Cox and Alex Vassiani, because I forgot to go look something up for a duo. I haven't come on a new theme for the next bit. I'm working on it, though. There's going to be a new bit. It's going to be a new bit back. It's going to be. I like that.

I like a new year's resolution. That's nice and strong. Room 237, is that the shining? Room 237? I made my friends watch that terrible, terrible movie, and he was mad at me. Then he afterward that I made him watch that. But I thought it was good for people to know. It was neat.

It was neat. It wasn't good. Anyway, that's what this is. I should have done an episode about the Overlook Hotel or whatever it's called from The Shining for episode 237. But I just realized that right now. So forget about that. Here we are again, folks.

another day, another one of my, I'm going to say, I'm going to take a, I'm going to take a liberty here and say beloved and extremely long-winded opening bits. To those of you who get it, hello. Again, welcome to another one of these. To those of you who don't get it, here, have a hit of this right here. Oh, yeah, Papa. That's right. That's some of that loud, top shelf, dank ass, Patreon.com slash Chaluminati pod right there. Let me tell you something, motherfucker. Even after holding it in your lungs for just five seconds, you will already start to see how chill of a move it is to support a good-hearted little mystery show like ours, if you can afford it. And in return for your hard-earned dollars,

I absolutely guarantee you'll exhale a huge, stinky cloud of ad-free episodes, bonus minisodes, an archive, an archive of rotten popcorn episodes where we watch movies you should probably actually be high for. Art from the incomparable, what's that SAT word, Studio Melectro, first dibs on merch, tickets, and the best thing ever, and more. All the patrons of the profiteer got a little preview as to when the shirt's coming out and what the shirt's going to be.

It's going to be in a few days, though. Keep your eye on the Yeti.com slash Jluminati. I like that. I get to take it easy today, actually. You got to take it easy? Yeah, it's good. I didn't have to do too much. I've been prepping for the next series.

I've been tweeting about it, but it's been a nice, relaxing. week because today, Alex, it's a you episode. And I appreciate days like today. Before, before we jump into Alex's episode, I just want to say, it is taking me everything, like every fiber of my being to not request we do an episode about the newest, greatest best conspiracy ever that Taylor Swift is a government plant. I just never want to be aware. That is my new favorite thing. I love it. It's not even, a unique conspiracy.

Ex-celebrity is a government plant is like... Not even ex-celebrity. Most pop, one of the most popular celebrities in the world who has had a career for over a decade, only recently government plant. Which honestly, is amazing because it means the government for years was like, yeah, we grew her in a test tomb. And this girl from a very wealthy family that like definitely had a leg up when getting into her music career. actually I hope she can sing. Yeah, actually turns out she is a government plant. Oh, and her new boyfriend, government plant.

And the chiefs are going to win government conspiracy. Like, amazing. One of my favorite things in the world, go, if you want to deep dive how crazy it is, go look it up. They're paying him back for his complicit ways. Because they can't handle that the world may impact not be chaos. They realize that Taylor Swift is going to support the Democratic candidate in the elections. They're like, she's fake. She's crazy.

She's wrong. She's been doing that for years now. Yeah, for years. Like, it's nothing new. It's just because she's on Monday night football that they're like, well, it has to be a reason. It's like, yeah, because TV studios and the executives put her on because then they're like, well, women will watch. Like, it's not, it's not. But this is a conservative man, sports man.

You can't bring in pretty liberal girls. But it's not like, but it's not. It'd be like saying, I know, I know. It'd be like saying, like, they show, they show so many Star Wars trailers. during basketball. What's that? Like, no. It's just owned by the same company.

Disney owns. He paid money. I out here where I live. I know, I know an individual who thinks art inherently should not be an isn't. He doesn't even think Star Wars is political. He does not believe Star Wars is political

when it is a metaphor. For Nazis. I'm just like, I think some people would just rather pretend that art isn't. Then acknowledge, you know. Yeah, yeah. Just send him a clip of George Lucas talking about the video.

Vietnam War and what side the rebels are in the war. Anyway, the episode continues. Derailed. I got to remind you guys that the other thing I've been shouting out about lately, whenever anybody lets me run things around here, which are my eight H-word clues, which I have been bandying around, like they are going to turn into something lately,

kind of giving myself full deniability if I end up deciding that it actually doesn't lead anywhere. but the good news is I am now overjoyed to reveal that they have turned into something. So let's recap. First, we had Hidden, where we went crazy without Jesse talking about the UFO technology and the Boutelle Institute at all. Yes, he still needs to finish that listen along. It hurts so bad, y'all.

It hurts so bad. I'm sure he does. I'm sure he can't wait to get back to it. Yeah. I love Santel. Then we had heavyweights where we covered a bunch of stories involving the W. which has slowly depreciated in value as a good episode choice topic as the weeks go on. And then most recently, Horse, which as I'm sure you remember, was hinting at simultaneously

the most comprehensive and revatorily, underwhelming Denver Airport episode ever made. Underwhelming? We covered it all. It wasn't that exciting. It's just sort of like, there's no truth to this, to the rumors. We learned everything about Denver Airport. But the truth was exciting. Sorry, so you're doing more, you're doing more. H's and this time you're going to do an H episode called how any of this makes sense, right? It's called head, actually, which I'll say more about in a second. Well, all right.

It's about that. Yeah, but before we move on, the last four left are number five, which is hello, number six, which is huge, number seven, which is him again, and number eight, which is hero. That's it. Those are the clues. Go do bits about what they mean on R slash chile. Noddypod. Don't send me the Smurf game, the Greenstone anymore. I've already received that joke too many times now. It's become a la, Yourona, if you will, especially because I have now figured out what episode H8 is going to be. That's right. It's an episode now. And this is all

definitely going to pay off. And going back slightly, if you didn't figure it out again, this episode's clue was head because it's going to be all about dreams. Okay. All right. Before we begin. We see, when we, when you first said it, we watched our demographics go majority female, back to majority male. And then you said that again, we're back to majority female. You know what about that?

For a couple weeks, we've been majority female audience now for two to three weeks straight. That's crazy to me. Hey, I don't disagree. I think the ladies were like, go on. No, that's what I'm saying. No head smash. Trust me, there's going to be plenty of head. Here's what's up.

What? I want to, before we start, I want to say this wasn't exactly the original idea I had for the dream episode. But it actually kind of sort of got hijacked away from me when I, and this is hard for me to admit, strange for me to admit out in the open, but I actually got a letter from the real Choluminaity themselves. And just in case you're wondering, yes, that's right. We're just the hosts of the official podcast, the secret, vived out organization existing above us goes so much higher up than you can imagine and has only now decided to step into the light. Why would you tell people this? They've only now decided to step into the light. Look, they're not doing

great right now. Okay. If the Illuminati are the ones who want to destroy society as we know it and implement a new world order, the chill Illuminati are just the ones who want to help us all hang out, grab a beer, grill some meat or meat substitutes. Not trying to exclude anyone. Together with our family and friends, smoke weed, listen to Groovy Records with the Boston Bank Bean Boy in areas where weed is completely legal. So that's their platform compared to the ill. Lumini, the chill Luminati. That's the joke there. You guys get it. We can go back to the game now. Anyway, they DM'd me the other day. What episode is this? 273? We were fondly establishing this. No, no, it's 2.37. They, they DM'd me the other day on Twitter. And they have a few requests.

First, you even called it X. On top of just teasing that episode 8. H8 exists and is coming down the pipes for real. They want me to tantalize you with the fact that it's going to be a new topic type for Chulamunati episodes and that we shouldn't worry about any kind of stupid stunt episode because the idea has legs. So they're very excited about it. But forget about episode H8 for now because today they want me to talk about dreams. Apparently that Chluminati did a screening of dream scenario with Nicholas Cage at their

New Year's party last month. I guess they bought it on Amazon Prime and streamed it at the party. I don't really know. I'm not allowed to those parties. But according to the minutes of the meeting, which I was given access to, everyone thought it was, quote, a really neat watch. But it also apparently reminded them that if we're going to be doing this new push to indoctrinate so many new members into the Chiluminati and try and stop the world from descending into like a true post-capitalist chaotic unchillness event, which is called. called a P-C-U-E, a P-Q. It's important to start with at least a basic course in dream defense, which is going to

start with the modules on shared subconscious, the dream realm, and Onei Romancey, which we're going to cover throughout the dream episode. And don't worry, if you have no idea what any of that is, you will have a great idea of what it is by the time part two is over next week. Mind your P's and Q's. That's a fun little pun. Anyway, fair warning. This episode is going to have some spoilers for the premise of this movie, Dream scenario.

right at the top. So if you like, if you like can't fully enjoy something unless every last aspect of it is a total surprise to you, maybe skip ahead a little bit. Don't, uh, listen to this part. But if not, I promise, I'm going to, I'm not going to tackle the themes of this movie. I'm not going to tackle the emotional core of this movie. So if you can trust me for a second, let's just get right into it. Most of this is just from the trailer anyway. But basically, this guy Paul in the movie, who's played by Nicholas Cage, starts appearing in the dreams of people.

people around the world who like connect over it. It really starts to affect his life and his self image. And the way that he acts in the dreams seems to be connected somewhat to his mental state. And there's like a crazy spiral of theming and symbolism that envelops him until it eventually comes to a head in the end. But the main important idea for us about the movie is that in the world of the movie, it also reveals the existence of a shared subconscious place in which ideas and communication can be delivered to people while they're sleeping through like a mysterious realm that now that it's been discovered is like tangible and corruptible like our own brains are right? It's heavy, right? But that's as far as I'm going to go into talking about the movie

because the Chuluminati actually had me look for real world parallels to see if this is something we have to worry about in real life. I don't know why that's what they're worried about. I don't know. I guess that's something they've been looking into for a while. First things, first, I found something called This Man, which is. sounded almost exactly like the movie, to the point that at first, I wondered if the movie was based on a true story. So first things first, there's a website for this phenomenon called Thisman.org, but do not go there yet, since it'll spoil my well-laid-out tale. And for right now, let me just start you guys with a picture of the man in question here, which you can describe to

people. And then let's have Jesse read the original backstory that's been posted around since I was a sophomore in college. Let me just grab it so that he can read it. So the best way to describe this. Wait a minute. Hang on. I saw this this week. What do you mean? Not in my dreams, but like this picture, this topic came up this week. Like, in my internet life. What the fuck?

I'm not even joking. Like, I don't understand. Did you get this manned by this man? But it's not in my dreams. Like he just, I've this post, like, there must have been a post on Reddit or something recently. How do you know you weren't dreaming at the time? That's true. Describe this man to people, just for a sec. Balding unibrow. A perfectly round,

orange Carl Pilking-esque head with disproportionately large mouth, nose, eyes, and eyebrows compared to the rest of his head. And he's balding with sort of a comb over at the top there and his ears

appear to be lower than most people's ears are on their face. Yeah, they don't really normally go on that part of the head as far as I know. Like it's maybe like an inch too low, but yeah. Yeah, really strange. He looks kind of, to me, looks like the guy from Twin Peaks in the room who, like, talks

backwards. And the fact that I have. Yes, yes, yes, yeah, it has that fog. I know who you're talking about. I've seen that scene. I've seen that scene. All right. This is for Jesse.

In January 2006 in New York, the patient of a well-known psychiatrist draws the face of a man that has been repeatedly appearing in her dreams. And more than one occasion, that man has given her advice on her. her private life. The woman swears she has never met the man in her life. The portrait lies forgotten on the psychiatrist's desk for a few weeks until one day, another patient recognizes that face and says

that the man has often visited him in his dreams. He also claims he has never seen the man in his waking life. The psychiatrist decides to send the portrait to some of his colleagues and have the patients with recurrent dreams, that have patients with recurrent dreams. Within a few months, four patients recognize the man as a frequent presence in their own dreams. All the patients refer to him as this man.

From January 2006, until today, at least 2,000 people have claimed they have seen this man in their dreams. In many cities all over the world, Los Angeles, Berlin, Sao Paulo, Tehran, Beijing, Rome, Barcelona, Stockholm, Paris, New Delhi, Moscow, etc. At the moment, there is no ascertained relation or common trait among the people that have dreamed of seeing this man. Moreover, no living man has ever been recognized as resembling the man of the portrait by the people who have seen this man in their dreams. The name of this website is, one, to help those who have seen this man in their dreams into foster communication among them. and two, to understand who this man is and why he appears in apparently patternless array of situations in the dreams of such diverse human subjects. So I already have a theory, but I'll save it.

As far as who he was, the website puts forth no other concrete facts of any kind, but rather includes a list of several different theories that have been like developed by people ostensibly by the person who put this website together, which Mathis is now going to read for you now. Several theories have been developed to explain the mysteriously recurring presence of this man in the dreams of different people who are not related in any way. The following theories are the ones that elicit the greatest interest among the dreamers themselves. Archetype theory. According to Young's psychoanalytic theory,

this man is an archetypal, archetypal, rather, image belonging to the collective unconscious that can surface in times of hardship, things like emotional development, dramatic changes in our lives, stressful circumstances, etc. In particularly sensitive subjects. Then there's a religious theory. According to this theory, this man is the image of the creator. That is to say, one of the forms which God manifests himself today.

God, do better. No, no, no, I like that because that means God's confident as hell. Based on the way this man looks, God shows up like, what? And what? What are you going to say? Maybe I'm just easily swayed, but you bought, that's correct. You know what? I'm with you on that. A hundred percent. That's a ballsy God.

He rolls up. He's like, he looks like a divorced dad, 54. And he's like, what? I came to you as the chillest dude I could, man. He didn't lose a son at a young age. Continue with the religious theory. This is the reason why his indications and the words he utters during the dreams should be decidedly followed by the dreamers.

Then there's dream super, a surfer theory. kind of like SpongeBob in that episode where he visits people's dreams I'm imagining. Or the movie Dream Scenario with Nicholas Cage. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, go ahead. And the one that has the greatest implications, but it has also the lowest scientific credibility. According to this theory, this man is a real person who can enter people's dreams by means of specific psychological skills.

Some believe that in real life, this man looks like the man in the dreams. Others think that the man in the dreams looks completely different from his real life counterpart. Some people seem to believe that behind this man, there is a mental condition. plan developed by major corporation. Then there's dream imitation theory. This is a scientific psychosocialological theory, which claims that this phenomenon has arisen casually and has progressively developed by imitation.

Basically, when people are exposed to this phenomenon, they become so deeply impressed that they start seeing this man in their dreams. Like a mind virus. And finally, daytime recognition theory. This theory states that the apparitions of this man are purely casual. Normally, we do not remember precisely the faces we see. see in our dreams, the image of this man would thus be an instrument which in the subject's waking life facilitates recognition of an und. An undefined onyrical image. An undefined unyricle

image, like a dream-based image. So yeah. The thing that is interesting to me is that it says from January 2006 until today, and I assume today is, do we have a date of when today was for when this was written? I believe it was about 2008, 2009, when this website came up. Okay. So let's say three years, 2,000 people have claimed that they've seen this man in their dreams. Yeah. I would love better statistics because 2000 is not a lot with billions of people on planet Earth. The more recent website, because that's a quote from the old website, the more recent website crosses out to 2000 and puts it at about 8,000, but that's still only in like 2014 or

2015. Yeah, it's still statistically not really significant in any sort of way. So it isn't like an epidemic of people seeing this guy. it clearly means something, but it isn't like he's getting in all of our dreams. This is going to end badly. You know, it's like a weird thing that's happening. But yeah, it's, I don't think it's anything like. What was your theory on what was happening?

Oh, I think it's just that he's an amalgam, like, because the way he looks, he's an amalgamation of all sorts of different things that people see in their life. And that's why certain people dream him because it's just like the brain's putting stuff together. and it just happens to look that way. And, you know, 8,000, 2,000, whatever, you know, you can, that's, it could happen to 8,000 people that they all see the same thing because it's only 8,000 people out of, they said it's overwork. It was like in the city of Chicago, 8,000 people had this dream. That would be interesting.

That's, his name's got to be Loeb Lloyd. He looks like Lloyd. Loeb Lloyd or Lloyd the Loeb. Like he's got a villainy. He is just like Lobe though. Remember the AI character Lobe that like, sort of like, congealed out of nothing? That's kind of what Jesse was saying, I think. But regardless of what he was, this man got coverage literally everywhere.

And as it spread, more and more people started coming forward with stories of seeing this guy where they were sleeping and weird interactions with him. This time with like an ominous message to go north a lot of the time. Here is a link that you can look at to a bunch of flyers in many languages of this man. You can kind of describe the vibes of this webpage for people. It looks like a conspiracy theorist web page with a bunch of pictures. pictures of people posting paper printouts of this man. I will point out that this website also has a page that has all these different printouts

available to print out. So I don't know how... Could be anybody just doing it. Representative, this is of a worldwide phenomenon, but it really is posted all over the world. But luckily for you, though, we don't have to leave it at that as we've grabbed a couple of these accounts of people around the world seeing this guy just to give you an idea of what meeting was supposedly like and to look a little bit more into the mystery here.

Screw the main page. You should be checking out the fan art tab on this page. Yeah, that's a, there's also the news. Like, it shows like all the games and stuff that he's referenced in. But here's, here's, here's one for Jesse to read. Uh, right here. First, first account of the man. All right.

Date September 2nd, 2013. City, Palm Beach State. Australia. Australia. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks, Siri. Thanks, ma'am.

Well, now I know it's in New South Wales. So there you go. You know what? My phone did a thing I didn't want. But here we are. Starting when I was seven, I had the exact same dream on Tuesdays and Friday for 10 years. I'm now 17. What?

I'm 17 now. Okay, that checks out. And I have become very familiar with this man. Although I do not have very nice dreams about him. I dream that I'm laying in bed and he is wearing a cowboy hat, leaning over me and making a strange noise. almost as if he was growling at me. And on his shirt is a gold round pendant that has molded into the gold go north. Other nights, he would be standing across my bedroom staring at me.

Every morning when I wake up, I burst into tears for absolutely no reason. It's like, this man is giving me hormonal problems. When I saw the pictures on this website, I started crying out of fear. he never spoke to me he only made weird noises I was gonna say do you think he growled like an animal or do you think he growled like a discord mod angry at his kid? I think he growled like Conan

O'Brien like like that like that yeah yeah okay so that's the first one pretty weird go north message in the gold there here's one for Mathis now to read date March 7th

2013 city, any city in Utah, because that's the state we're in. I dreamt of this man. He was following me through a park in the dead of night. I couldn't understand why he was following me so I started running. He easily kept the same pace as me. He gave a small groan and sped up until he was in front of me. He put his hand out, stopping me from running. He pulled me close to him, but he only spoke 21 words. I still think about them every night. On April 9th, 2021, go north. It's the only way to survive. After saying this, the man ran away. I tried to catch up to him to ask more, but I couldn't keep up. As I watched him fade away in the distance, I got a strange feeling. I woke up immediately after he left my line of sight. Excellent memory for a dream. Right now,

I'm looking up April, April 9th, 2021. Do you think we all died? Do you think that happened in the, in 2021? And we just didn't realize it? I don't know. The first, the first result is that the Utah Department of health issued state public health order, 202110, which provides an update on statewide COVID-19 restrictions. It's a face mask restriction for organized events. I can't imagine that that's what, I don't know if that's what they were talking about. There was a couple other disasters. There's the, Russia deployed some troops to the border as tensions escalated between

Russia and Ukraine on that day. That's probably not it. There was an insurgency in Nigeria. There was an insurgency in Germany. Mu and Kashmir. They're protesting. I don't think any of that affects Utah. Yeah, Utah was decided not involved in much of that.

There was a disaster in the Congo and in San Francisco, in the Grenadines. And obviously it was COVID, but there's not really like a huge one in there on that day. I mean, the question I have is like, so like on April 9th, 2021, go north. It's the only way to survive. I'm assuming this person from Utah didn't do that. No idea. I mean. Or did they?

Because I would love a follow-up. It seems like there's no follow-up here. This was just an account that the webmaster brought when she was interviewed on Vice magazine. But here is another one. One last story with this Go North theme. Kind of interesting. This one is, yeah, for Jesse. January 9th, 2011, Fort Lauderdale, Florida.

I dreamt of this man. A couple years ago, I had seen a couple's therapist because I was having recurring dreams about this middle-aged man who kept attacking me. He never said anything. I woke up soaking wet in every night. This was the same time I met a guy in college who was very creepy and stalked me. He always found a way into my dorm and would sit there all night. I was put on Trazadone. That's a sleeping man.

To help me get through the nights. I also have a dream where someone is always telling me to go north. Just like someone else wrote under the dream link. I got it tattooed on my ankle because I swore it meant something. I'm almost positive. This man is the one who comes to see me in my dreams. Yeah. So obviously people are freaking out.

Comedian Tim Heideker tweeted it was scaring the shit out of him. This man was on the news all over the world. It was on coast to coast. is on Tosh.0. It's been referenced in the X files before. It continually pops up in video games. It's in the AIs, the Somnium files was in there. Obviously, people were starting to get suspicious.

But here's what the woman who made the website, a woman named Andrea Nettella had to say when she was asked about it by Vice in 2015. And Mathis, I'm just going to ask that you do your best here. We constantly try to understand this point, but we have no clue about what this man wants or if he wants something at all. One thing seems clear.

This man is a kind of, wormhole. Some people are confident he is just my invention, but I am only a point in a time loop. This man was dreamed even before I could draw his face, even before the first patient identified him in New York. We have evidence of people dreaming about him 30 years ago. Every day we receive news and kids who have begun dreaming about him somewhere new in the world. I believe it's not this man who does time traveling, but it's us who moves through a fourth dimension. It's a loop with no chicken nor the egg. I think the key factor of this man's success on the web is his ability to represent an

extra dimension as we travel in the global space with a click. We can also time travel with a dream. He is a kind of star in the knights of Captain Ahab who help us to catch our inner whale. Okay. What? Yeah. So what do you guys think the deal is with this guy? Like full style.

If you had to just guess right now from the information that I gave you, what do you think is the deal with this man? You think he's an impression that's like biologically just random based on the shape of everyone's brain as humans? Yeah, I mean, there's, there's, he's not, he's kind of generic looking, right? Like, he's pretty, I feel like your imagination could come up with somebody that looks like that pretty easily. Yeah, he, I mean, to be clear, in the vice, in the vice article, she also said that this

face was like a composite that she made using like a composite app. like it's some it's like a branded app or something that she used that like this was the face that it gave her after inputting the description of this man from a bunch of people or whatever so that's so that's what it is yeah i feel like it's such a it's such a vague weird description like it isn't it's i feel like what is happening so what is happening with the face and the man and the man they see i think is just sort of a thing that based on external stimuli on the brain it's sort of an amalgamation of things. And then this very specific man is one that when people see it,

they're like, oh, yeah, that's the guy, even though I don't know that it 100% was. Yeah. You know, it happens all the time with dreams where you just interpret it weird. Great example is earlier this week, I tweeted out about how I woke up from a dream where literally a dude in the dream was like, you must find Mount Chiavaki. And I was like, what?

And he's like, find Mount Chiavaki. And I was like, okay. So I woke up with no idea how to spell Chiovaki. And then everyone was like, dude, did you mean Mount Chikovsky, which is in the, which is in Antarctica? Maybe it's like, oh, God, shit. And I was like, yeah, all right. Like that sounds, that sounds fine. Did you book your plane ticket?

Yeah. Are you going? I mean, I should. I really should go there. I can write that off. I feel like go north is also such a vague thing. Like the concept of going north is just like, getting. your bearings is the idea, right?

Like the north is a fixed pole. So like get your bearings. I don't know. It seems it seems like this is. It's very common advice. Yeah, it seems like people are trying to attribute stuff to this because it's like mysterious and cool and now I'm in it, you know? Yeah. Well, let me let me give one to the people.

If you are one of the people out there who thought this was complete bullshit, uh, let's just say you were probably right. as almost immediately after that Vice interview went live. Another article came out called, Ugh, we just got hoaxed, the real story about the This Man Dreamface. Okay. The article is not long.

It did say that Andrea Nettella actually runs a company called Gariglia Marketing, which is famous for doing all kinds of stuff exactly like this, and it's famous for pushing the boundaries of subversive and edgy marketing techniques. But at the same time, though it could easily just be some kind of resume builder for them. There's not really any sort of product associated with it to speak of. The brand doesn't claim it. No one really made any money off it. And when you look on the site for more info,

you get this quote, which Jesse will read for us now, which is from the woman Andrew Nettella herself. In the past months, some individuals have been trying to stop this website's research, claiming that we might have a hidden marketing agenda. This is false. These individuals are probably just scared of what this man capital could soon be announcing in many people's dreams. What does that mean? Like you can't just say that. Like they're afraid he's going to like of what he's going to say. Like what? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, they haven't really budged from that position in all this time. Though admittedly, the new site looks more like the homepage of a meme than it does like a legit research experiment that's interested in collecting accounts from people. It seems more like a

fan site now. But there's never really been an answer. So, you can just kind of leave it right there, like vaguely possibly kind of answered and we can move on. I don't know. Do you think it's totally fake? Do you think she just completely made it up whole cloth? Do you think there's something to it? Have you ever dreamed this man?

Well, it's interesting question, right? Because even if it was fake, right? Even if it was fake and she did make it up. That doesn't, throwing it out there can weasel its way into people's minds who may start dreaming it, right? They have people like like Slender Man was a fucking made up thing. And then we had a little girl literally stab somebody to go like being Slender Man's Mansion. So it's real to some people now I would bet.

You know, maybe out there might be, even if it was an unintended side effect of a marketing thing that she was doing. Sure. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of the, that's kind of the vibe I get. I don't know. I mean, people are coming forward with stories and like, I don't know if that's like just pure invention, but it is interesting to think like if it's totally fake, like from a point of

of like in bad faith it's fake. That kind of gives you some idea of how people respond to things like this where you give stories of your own version of stuff. Like if they thought this was a real thing and they're just writing a straight up lie, you know, it starts to make you think. I don't know. But if this man isn't real and thereby that means that dream scenario is just an actual dream scenario with no basis in reality, does that mean that every part of, you know, of the idea of a dream realm isn't real? Well, if you ask the Chuluminati, the actual Chulamani, they'll say, they have evidence that makes the answer unemphatic, maybe not.

Alex. And in fact, to start our second module, yeah. Who sits at the head of Chulamonati? I wish I could tell you. I wish I had any idea. I haven't, all I get is some DMs. Twitter. You know, they hit me up on Twitter.

Let's just say there's a certain aging songster. who still to this day, I think he's 90, I don't know how old he is, but he's in his tour bus. He's very high and he rules from there. Let's just say. I don't know who he is, but I've heard rumors. Right. Yeah. To start our second module, here's some accounts for you to listen to right now that might

make you think, yes, maybe we do go somewhere when we dream. We can discuss each one after we read it, starting with one of the great anonymous internet posts of all time. which ties in perfectly with our theme and which Mathis will read for us now to get started. It's a little meaty, but it's actually literally legendary. So here we go. Mathis, this buds for you. Throwaway account because this is really personal. My last semester at a certain college, I was assaulted by a football player for walking

where he was trying to drive. Nope, he was 325 pounds. I was 120 pounds. And while unconscious on the ground, I lived a different life. I met a wonderful young lady. She made my heart skip. Oh, I remember I know this story. And my face read, I pursued her for months and dispatched a few jerk boyfriends before I

finally won her over. After two years, we got married and almost immediately she bore me a daughter. I had a great job and my wife didn't have to work outside of the house. Don't. Jesse, this is very serious. It's a very tragic story. Yeah. You know, this is this.

This was posted on like an Andrew Tate subreddit. There's no way. There's no way any decent person goes. And then she bore me a child. After I defeated several over evil exes, she then bore me a perfect baby boy. The dude went unconscious and went into fucking Scott Pilgrim world. A strapping air.

He just lived the sequel to Scott Pilgrim that was never written. After I defeated the lesser men, my alpha brain took over and I managed to get her to bear me a child. I had a great job and my wife didn't have to work outside of the house. She made me a sandwich all the time and never wore a bra. when my daughter was two, she, my wife, bore me a son.

My son was the... I just... That sucks, dude. No, no, it gets worse. No one talks like this. This dude, this did not happen. I also, you know what? Hearing a little bit more,

I'm starting to think, maybe that jock was like, dude, you're being a creep. You're being a creep. Stop being a creep. No, man. He's like, I'm trying to get people to understand. Fight me.

I'm right in my beliefs. This guy's alternate life is like a toxic family because he didn't say, anything like this about his daughter, but he goes, my son was the joy of my life. Yeah, no, that first daughter, two years of a mistake. I was only thinking about how she would grow up to do only fans and it broke my soul. Thank God I had a son so I could live vicariously through him and play call of duty with him in real life. I would walk into his room every morning before I left for work and doted on him and my daughter.

One day, while sitting on the couch, I noticed that the perspective of the lamp was odd, like inverted. It was still 3D, but just wrong. It was a square lamp base red with gold trim on four legs in a white square shade. I was transfixed. I couldn't look away from it. I stayed up all night staring at it. The next morning I didn't go to work. Something was just not right about that lamp.

I stopped eating. I left the couch only to use the bathroom at first. Soon I stopped that too as I wasn't eating or drinking. I stared at the fucking lamp for three days before my wife got really worried. I like that it took the wife three whole days. not the first night where he stayed up all night. Three ass days later. She's barely a character.

Let's be real. Maybe he's dreaming of the universe where Chulamani rules. She's just chill about it, dude. She's just giving it a little time, seeing if it plays out. She had someone come and try to talk to me. By this time, my cognizance was breaking up and my wife was freaking out. She took the kids to her mother's house just before I had my epiphany. The lamp is not real.

The house is not real. My wife, my kids, none of that is real. The last 10 years of my life are not fucking real. The lamp started to grow wider and deeper. It was still inverted dimensions. It took up my entire perspective and all I could see was red. I heard voices, screams, all kinds of weird noises, and I became aware of pain. A fucking shit ton of pain.

The first words I said were I'm missing teeth and opened my eyes. I was lying on my back on the sidewalk surrounded by people that I didn't know. Lots were freaking out, and I was completely confused. At some point, a cop scooped me up, dragged and walked me across the sidewalk and grass, and threw me face down in the back of a cop car. I was still confused. I was taken to the hospital by that cop. Seems he didn't want to wait for an ambulance to arrive and give CT scans and shit. I went through about three years of horrid depression. I was grieving the loss of my wife and children and dealing with the knowledge that they never existed. I was scared that I was going insane as I would cry myself to sleep hoping I

would see her in my dreams. I never have. But sometimes I see my son, usually just a glimpse out of my peripheral vision. He is perpetually five years old and I can never hear what he says. And this is then there was an edit 24 hours after the post was up. Never thought anyone would read this. I changed the line so that it no longer seems that my two-year-old daughter bore a child. I have never seen Inception or the Star Trek episode so many have mentioned, but I will eventually. I will not do an AMA. I've had many PMs describing similar experiences in three posters stating such experiences are impossible.

I'd say more research needs to be done on brain functions. Pre-med students don't assume you know everything. A few have asked if they can write a book, screenplay, or stage play, rage, comic, etc. Please consider this tale open source and have fun with it. There's definitely been a few comics of this. That little line at the end immediately feels like it discredits everything he says. Have fun with it.

I mean, I will 100% say that him being like, just because you pre-med doesn't mean you know anything. I don't know. I feel like they know more than you, my man. I'm just going to put that out there. That's what happens when I tweet and somebody responds to it like they can read it, but they actually can't read it. And I'm like, I don't know what to tell you. You didn't read it right. I'm sorry.

You just don't realize how many doctors in waiting are out there and business CEOs in waiting that are just out there. I will say it's a fascinating story. it's super interesting, but it doesn't necessarily hold up to the like dream test. Because most dreams aren't things you vividly remember everything and they slowly go away over time. This seems more like a brain damage. Like this guy got messed up kind of thing. I've heard stories of people who have done like what's known as like a heroic dose of mushrooms, which is a.k. too much, way too much.

And it's like, that's what could eat ego death. And people have like done like time. stuck in time loops kind of thing and just like they don't they can't get out until like it wears off but that's that's the only place I've ever read anything that's remotely similar to this I don't think I've read anything about coma patients living lives or anything maybe yeah that's kind of like that's kind of like part of the like media version right like I've seen hundreds of memes based on having foreknowledge of this story I know they mentioned uh inception in here I know they mentioned Star Trek TNG already uh but there's like

Like lots of other plots like this, uh, like even that one adventure time one that has Jonathan Frakes as like Finn who like goes into some pillows on the couch and lives a whole life in the pillows, uh, where he like grows old with the wife. Or just Rick and Morty where he puts on the fucking video game helmet and he lives an entire life and then he dies and he's like, yeah, it's everywhere. Yeah. And it wasn't the first story like this either. Obviously, like as we just said.

Yeah. But something about it, something about that lamp just captures people's imaginations. Uh, it feels real a little bit even though it's not. probably, you know, and in a dream, what's the difference, right? What's the difference between real and fake when you're dreaming it? Yeah. Like, he could have dreamed that he had a whole life and only remembered parts of the life. You know what I mean?

Like, dreams are fucked up. It's like, he very well could be reporting back the exact experience that he had, and it still might not have happened the way he said, which is like so fucked up. Here is another account of the dream realm from you slash insomniac with a wife for Jesse to read. I'm sorry, insomniac with no life. Different, different user. Very different vibe.

Yeah. Here is your, here's your little story. I will say it's interesting the concept of a dream world because how would it work? You know what I mean? Like, if there's another reality we all go to when we sleep, like how does that work because everyone's dreams is different?

It would be insane. People would be like falling, you'd be walking on the street being chased by like a banana man that you fear when you were a kid while people are falling from the sky around you. It's insane. It's like Saints Row. Yeah. Yeah.

Everyone would be in Saints Row. Yeah. I once had a dream where I lived day by day starting from high school to midlife to late 50s. After that point, it didn't matter. Once you're into 50s, you're dead. That's a fact. I can still remember details like my graduation, my wedding, having children, etc. But I also remember insignificant stuff.

Like I brought a tuna salad to work on a Tuesday. which was odd because I hate tuna. I had a whole life and a husband and a family, and it ended when I walked into McDonald's to grab lunch. A man in a hooded track suit comes in, shoots me near the side of my stomach. I'm lying on the ground, bleeding out when everything goes black. Then I woke up, it was all gone.

I actually had a bruise from where the guy was supposed to have shot me. I haven't even been able to have that dream again. since then. Has anyone ever had an experience like this? I have. Yeah. I have. I wouldn't say it was a day, but I didn't live it day by day, but I've absolutely woken up after dreaming about a life with a, you know, a family or a girlfriend or whatever like, like, oh no, I got worse. Okay. I, uh, when I was younger, bro, I, you remind me when I was a waiter, having dreams of just being at work to go to work to wake up to have to go to work. Oh God. Those were the work. No, no, no, all right.

When I was, I don't know, high school-ish, I had a dream that was very similar to this and that I got a new jacket in the dream. In the dream, I was like, showing off my new jacket. I got a new jacket. It was such a cool jacket. Very nice jacket. Went to school. Everyone was like, ooh, what a nice jacket. I was like, I know I love this jacket.

And then I was, I was walking home, a dude was like, yo, give me that jacket. And I was like, no, it's my jacket. And he was like, no, it's not. and he shoots me in the stomach. Oh. And when I got shot in the stomach, I popped awake. I had the worst stomach ache I've ever had ever. And I was like, whoa.

That was your body being like, wake up. You need to shit. That's what I realized the mind, brain, body. It's all, it's all connected. And I was like, yo, did I just. It's like imagination station, yeah. Yeah, I didn't know if the dream caused me to have a stomach hurt or if my stomach hurt and the dream made it.

I don't know. It was very cool, but I totally get where she's coming from. Like an inception when the water starts to come into the fucking room and you're like, it's because they're splashing into water in the real life, but you don't know that. Yeah, yeah. It's very movie-esque. But yeah, it happened. So then, so then here's, so she asked, has anybody ever had any experience like that? And then we got a comment actually from designer Pamelo 1164 right here for Mathis to read. That's like a reply to that message. Yes, and it was beyond weird.

I lived a different life, birth to death, where I was born in the 1940s and eventually served in Vietnam as a helicopter door gunner, the helicopter was a CH-53, and was killed by enemy fire and woke up around age 14. Years later, I joined the military Navy as a naval air crewman and ironically got orders to become an MH-53 air crewman, which is basically the exact same helicopter as the one in my dream. Just the Navy's upgraded version. Some of our MH53s were actually used in Vietnam. The very odd thing was, I knew my way around this helicopter the very first time I stepped my foot into it. Literally, even knew how to operate complex hydraulic systems and other stuff I should have not picked up on so

quickly. My instructors were kind of tripped out. They constantly asked me how I knew this or that, and if I studied this aircraft before arriving at school, which I had not other than a dream, which I did not mention because it sounds insane. Anyways, I excelled and eventually became a hardened crew chief around the time I got orders to a new squadron, which I deployed to Afghanistan with. But halfway through, we took some heavy fire during a Medevac mission, and I honestly thought here it comes. I'm about to wake up, but nothing happened. I survived a few other really close calls and haven't woken up yet, L.O.L. I'm sure most won't believe this, but it is all 100% true. It still boggles my mind to this day. Anyways, have a good one. Yeah. And then somebody asks me if

remembers any mundane details. So there's a little bit more for you to read here. I just split it into two for you. There we go. Actually, I actually do quite a bit, but not so much childhood memories. That part was vague, almost like a fast forward until high school. More military related and friends. Some memories even kind of matched up later in my life while in the Navy, one being the Air Crewman School House in Pensacola, Florida at the Naval Air Station, which has been

around since before the Vietnam War started and until Hurricane Katrina hit, was the exact, with the same exact building and layout. Same rules. Same a lot of stuff. The kicker is both Navy aircrew men and Marine Aircrew go through the same schoolhouse together since the 50s. And in that dream from what I could remember was the same. That's the part that really, really tripped me out and still does.

I also remembered the base, standing watches in the same areas, and the one that stands out the most was the daily three to five mile runs. AC school is rough, L.O.L. A couple miles away from the schoolhouse is this huge beach on base, and they would run us there and we'd have to qualify on different runs, getting harder and harder each day. and at the end was all your buddies cheering you on was like one big deja vu. I've kind of questioned reality ever since.

Something's always been off. I just know, I just don't know what it is. Thank you for taking this post seriously. It actually means a lot because I never really told anyone in person about this because I don't want to be labeled as weird or crazy. Yeah. To me, right.

Those are interesting. It's not the same as like the dream man face or whatever because I've read a lot of stories about no, different whatnot. And taking this, we'll just take it as truth because it's a guy in the internet. It doesn't, you know, one way or the other. It's probably made up. But for the sake of conversation, taking this as truth, it goes into playing the idea of like, what is reality?

You know, are we all? Is it a shared consciousness that just experiences itself through 3D time and space? And if so, hopping between consciousness when you die, maybe you're not, you know, maybe it's more common. Who knows? There's also the idea of quantum immortality, which is the idea of quantum immortality, which is the idea in a theory. It's not even a theory within quote unquote science, the idea that when you die here, your consciousness moves to the closest, most similar reality layered on top of ours to like

you there. There's a lot there that you can play with and see. That'd be the coolest video game life system ever. Yeah. I've had on the list to do quantum immortality as a topic for years now, but I just don't know how to broach it as a full episode. But if time isn't real and, you know, there's the idea of like reincarnation and all that. other shit. There's so many beliefs in that in that area of living lives as multiple people. Right. You know, maybe there's something to it that is just a science we don't truly understand or how our reality works in a way that's just beyond our understanding. Yeah. Well, do you remember the alien theory that was about each of us being like little cosplays for like one

consciousness that and like maybe like the little cosplay games get rewired like Racki Ralph sometimes, you know, like maybe like you accidentally end up in another one. Does that make sense? Or like maybe there's only so many consciousnesses that are actually present at once, like maybe when you're not present? If you take the alien idea one, it's the idea that we're all part of one consciousness. So it's not like we're getting rewired. We're just that consciousness experiencing life from all potential angles on this one planet.

But that's what I mean. Like you're still a, but you're still a perception nodule of that consciousness. Sure. Because then when you die, you kind of just join back to the, you're not like an individual anymore in that regard. Like what if some people are just empty? What if some people are just empty? And then you like take a wrong turn in the wreck at Ralph of Dreams one night and you

actually go in the wrong body and then you time travel back to your real body when you die. Sounds crazy now that I'm saying it out loud. But yeah, no, it does. That's okay when there's no science in there, right? Well, I think they have a sole transfer machine in the Dulce facility that we talked about last week. So maybe.

I love the idea that this is. is like a video game where your F-O-V is what's loaded in front of you, but everyone behind you hasn't loaded yet. So when you turn around, everyone loads in. It's like, what were they doing? I don't know.

Quantum, quantum mechanics cannot be measured until they're observed, bro. Hold on. I just want to stay for the record. I would believe this if you said it was more accurately like when characters from, like, Urkel would show up in full house or whatever.

Yeah. And they would like, you know, they shouldn't be there. There they are. It's like, to my idea of that. And you're like, all right, well, this is funny. You know, I, I don't know.

I don't want to say, I'd buy that. I think I lead credence into this idea more because I love, the idea of reality being weird and wobbly is more of like a thing that we're studying only now. It's like the cool, it's actually the cool science that we actually get to watch, get discovered while we live. Yeah, we get to go across the globe and we don't get to colonize planets. Right.

But we get to be here in the beginnings of quantum science and that's fucking cool. and with my absolute PhD level understanding of how quantum mechanics works, this seems plausible. You've just got it all covered. Yeah, you got it all handled. Yeah. Right. Anyway, to close out this module,

we're going to do one last story that kind of goes along with my weird, how did you put it, Carl Pilkington-esque notion that I just had about swapping brain consciousnesses around. This story is not about dreaming. This story is not about dreaming. It's about potent psychedelic drugs. But I'm not really sure there's much of a difference. which is something I'll actually be getting further into in just a second. But first, let's have Jesse

read as part one of a story by a man called Steve Cantwell on Medium. Don't worry. And listeners out there one day, the three of us are going to go out to Joshua Tree and do too many mushrooms and we'll just come out different people. I would film the whole thing. I would record the audio of the whole experience. We'd have to have someone sober there actually recording us, but everything about existence is perspective. And no aspect of perspective is fun. year than time. I have been a member of an existential little group, sure, little group called the Mormon church for years. At the time of this story, I was kind of a pastor in the church called an elder's quorum president. My neighbor was also a member of an existential organization.

This one called the U.S. Army. You know what? I don't like the use of existential organization, But all right. Like me, my friend was a lifer. While he was in Iraq, we would write emails planning for his next visit home at Christmas. We had been hearing about synthetic marijuana, which neither Uncle Sam nor Joseph Smith had yet commented on. I told Carl,

I'd get some in time for his Christmas visit. Yo, shout out to everyone I know, everyone I know who is a Mormon, always trying to like skirt the law. The rules. Yeah. Bend the rules however they can. Yeah.

Every single one is like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got an idea of how we can get around this. I'm like, I don't know. Maybe Mormonism isn't for you, but whatever. It lets me know that humanity is alive. Yeah. A smoke shop version. I try not to gape at the wares. The kids in front of me were buying a package of salvia.

So I assume this was synthetic weed I sought. I mistakenly asked for the same. Well, there's your problem. That's going to be a different night. On Christmas. On Christmas. Oh, no. Little baby Jesus is like,

Smoke if you got him. He's in the top hat doing a little tap dance. It's the baby from Allie McBeal. Jesus has moves. Jesus? On Christmas, I walked next door armed with lamp-sized bong and a pocket full of concentrated trouble.

While the kids play with their brand new toys, Our wives prepared the big fancy Christmas dinner, my friend and I thought to smoke before devouring the turkey feast. I went first to amuse my pal with the spectacle of his Mormon friend using a bong for the first time. I loaded the big glass bowl with half foil packet, flash fried it with a micro torch, and took the kind of lungful you take to prove to your friend,

who kills people for a living, that you are gruesome enough to hang. It tasted like burning snow tires. But I held my smoke like a hero until the floor beneath me turned into a whirlpool that sucked me in. Apparently, salvia is nothing at all like synthetic marijuana.

I fell for a short time, down a swirling tube, and when I came back out into the light, I was on the super-realistic, deck of a small ski boat and vomiting up water. Super realistic water that was coming out of my lungs, along with the kind of coughing that makes your fingertips ache. Three strangers were gathered around me on the deck, talking excitedly, man, we thought you drowned.

The men were helping me off with my life jacket. You were face down and still, and it felt like forever to turn around and pull you out. When I stopped coughing, I explained to my water skiing companions that I actually lived in Alaska and that all of this was super realistic. As I laughed and knocked on things to show how real everything was, my companions were exchanging word expressions and rushed me to a nearby clinic. Cool. And here's part two for Mathis to read, also in Twitter. Apparently, we were in a place, we were in Tyler, Texas, a place about which I had zero previous knowledge. My companions, apparently my friend since kindergarten, told the doctor that I had almost drowned.

My lifelong friends expressed concern that I didn't remember any of them in the ad. I kept saying I lived in Alaska. The doctor gave me oxygen, hit my knee with a rubber hammer to test my reflexes, and shown a light in my eyes. He eventually told us that permanent amnesia is impossibly rare and that my brain would probably shake itself off in a couple days. My Tyler friends took me to my, my Tyler friends took me to my super realistic apartment that was full of things I didn't remember owning. Everyone was nice enough to leave me grinning in my living room where I snooped around and waited for the salvia to wear off.

I'd fallen asleep on the couch and in the morning woke up to urgent knocking. Paul, apparently my friend, informed me that I hadn't shown up for work and drove me out to Peterson's farm, where I blinked at a clipboard all day, not really even pretending to supervise super realistic migration labor for a large apple orchard, still waiting for the salvia to wear off. The work day ended, and my friend offered to bring me to his house for dinner.

I told him I just wanted to go back to my apartment and wait for this crap to wear off. I shook Paul's hand and complimented him on how real he seemed, which he didn't care for. I slept in the bed the second night, fully expecting to wake up in Alaska. Instead, I woke up again to Paul knocking. I hadn't shown up for work again. And this repeated itself for every minute of every day for eight years. I was trapped in Tyler, Texas. I will say Tyler, Texas is a real place.

Like, it's not too far for me. It's like life on Mars, the show. Genuine, genuine question, though, after like day five, day six, he's saying eight years. So, I mean, I understand that it could fast forward. But if he's saying this is all real time, I don't know, day three, I'd be like, you know what, that was a weird dream I had about that Mormon thing. I guess I'll go to work, right? Like, I got bills to pay.

Like, what do you mean? Eight years past. But he has, but like to, he has no memory of any of this life. He knows nobody. So how are you just going to go? You can be like a weird dream, but I still don't know anyone. My memory is gone. like that's still a problem.

Like I would be going to the doctor maybe. I guess. He goes, at first I was a man sleepwalking through an imaginary life. I didn't bother picking up my paychecks until there was no money left in my banking account. I wouldn't hang out with my friends or answer tedious questions about my memory. I'd just go home every day and sit in my apartment and cry and wonder if I had imagined. He went to work. That's all I want to know.

We're good. Yeah, there you go. If I had imagined my life in Alaska. It took four years to crack me. but after failing to find any trace of my previous life, I accepted that I had sustained brain damage in a near drowning. The narrative that I had a family in Alaska who loved me began to feel like the kind of escape this fever dream

a loser has when his brain goes swimming too long. The belief that I had brain damage gave me a kind of closure, allowing me to let go of my life in Alaska and start participating in my life in Tyler. One day at lunch, I told my handful of friends that I wanted to sing in the cover band they were always talking about forming. I started hanging out with them interfacing

Interfacing through classic rock covers We developed a kind of shorthand Where they knew to include backstory In our conversations when needed And I learned to stop treating people Like they were imaginary Then one day I was walking across a park To meet my friends carrying a bucket of chicken

When the grass beneath my feet Turned into a whirlpool And I fell through the ground And back into Alaska Pabingo My now ex-wife was on the ground Holding me around the chest while I shook with a seizure.

Hang up, she said. I think he's coming out of it. My friend who had probably been thinking about how he would explain this to the police if I died, eagerly hung up with the phone mid-dial. Of course, nothing had, how does this man know these details if he's barely conscious? Just sorry, random quote thoughts. Of course, nothing had changed in the eight years I'd been gone because the total elapsed time of my seizure may have been as short as 45 seconds, best guess.

Everyone was mad at me for... That sounds like Salia. Yeah. Everyone was mad at me for playing around with drugs on Christmas, but I was too weepy at the wonder of my family to care. My Alaska life in a borrowed pair of sweatpants, a borrowed pair of sweatpants due to a super realistic accident in my slacks during the seizure and still better than anything Tyler, Texas had to offer.

In the years since, I still have more questions and answers, lingering doubts about reality and time, and some confusing emotions about friends and friends and Tyler, whose imaginary nature, I am still reluctant to hold against them. Yeah, pretty crazy. It's a crazy fucking story. Like, yeah. Yeah, that would be traumatic. I can't imagine.

Have you ever hallucinated a life on drugs? Never. Yes. Oh, I've told the story a million times. No, an entire life for years. Yeah. A lot of life, but no, not years, but like hours. Yeah, for sure.

definitely had a walk home and that was fake like it's happened but that also wasn't salvia that was like horror that was like and we were drugged we weren't we didn't choose that life right it it got us although i guess we did we were trying to impress girls but people with bad intentions got us yeah exactly it's possible that this i i absolutely have seen videos of dudes do salvia and they have when they come out of it, it's been 30, 40 seconds and they're like, dude, oh, you got us crazy.

They just go off on the craziest story. Salvius. I definitely believe that it does something to your brain. 100%. 100. I don't know what. I know it doesn't act like most drugs. I don't know enough about biochemistry

to tell you exactly what, but I know it does different things than what most drugs do. I don't know if they even really count as a psychedelic for that reason, but I'm not sure. That's like something I would love for somebody If there's more scientists out there that want to educate us, please tell us about what

Salvia does to your brain that makes it so goddamn crazy because it is so goddamn crazy. Yeah. There's so many videos on YouTube of people doing it. Yeah. Dude, driving while on Salvia is one of the best videos of all time. I ask you, on behalf of the Chalibunaity themselves, don't worry, he doesn't actually drive. Are dreams a place that you can go? So for the last module that we're going to get to today, let's go back to another movie,

which was actually coincidentally, New Year's Party movie screening pick 2011, which was Christopher Nolan and Leonardo DiCaprio's Inception. Not sure why the Shulminati is always watching stuff like this. I don't know. All I can see are the meeting minutes. It doesn't give a lot of poetic license. I don't know what it's like to be in the room. It's just very pragmatic. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know why they're doing it. But if you haven't seen it, it's about implanting ideas in a dreaming person's head from the outside world by sneaking into their mind like a heist and seamlessly convincing. them that it was their own idea in the first place. That's what Inception is. And also, it's the plot of persona five, kind of, too. But I'm not going to mention that again other than to say that you should also maybe consider checking out Shimagami Tensei 5 for the switch if you love the battle system, but wish it was more challenging and didn't require you to make teenagers

love you as much as possible between ships at your day job and also attending a high school, which weirdly isn't that relatable to me at 35 anymore. It was all about the teacher, bro, but whatever. Yeah. Anyway, this isn't a brand. That's for you. That's for you, the man, Jesse, playing Persona Five as a grown man. But here is a new story about the idea of communicating both ways with someone while they're sleeping, being absolutely real and occurring in this reality already. Back in February of 2021 from the U.S. National Science Foundation, here's Jesse with a much abridged version of what that's all about.

Pretty crazy stuff, to be honest with you. Researchers at Pauler's Lab at Northwestern University in Illinois, along with researchers in France, Germany, and the Netherlands, have independently demonstrated two-way communication with people as they are lucidly dreaming during R.E.M., rapid eye movement, sleep. Supported by the U.S. National Science Foundation, the breakthrough was achieved in the U.S. by Karen Konkoli, Pauler's doctoral student, and Christopher Mazurik, a volunteer research participant at the time of the study. and one of the first people to ever engage in real-time dialogue from within a dream. Although our mind is active and dreams often occur during R.E.M. sleep,

our bodies are almost completely paralyzed. That presents an obvious challenge for communications since we can't move the body parts we typically use to communicate. As the name rapid eye movement suggests, however, there is an exception. During R.E.M. sleep, our eyes move around behind our eyelids in a similar random fashion, which often corresponds to the sleeper looking at various imagined things in their dreams. If you dream that you're looking at something, your closed eyes move correspondingly, as if you're looking at something while awake. That phenomenon led researchers to a key insight. If eye movement were consciously controlled, the dreamer's eyes could become a vehicle for getting a message to the waking world.

Yeah. So basically the researchers were kind of having the same, like, problem that I was having. Like, I can't give you a picture of dreams. I can't do anything except, like, give you reading. Like, there's so much reading in this episode because all we can do is read descriptions of what people already experienced, like, after they did it while they were asleep and then woke up and told us about it, which is probably like a filter of perception that like sometimes changes completely, like the experience of what the dream even was.

And because these people can't. move or do anything, they have to try and figure it away. So they used EEGs to do it to like track and wait until these people are in their REM cycle. And then here's Mathis with a little more about what happened next. To prepare Mazurak and the other US volunteers, conquely wired each participant with electrodes that sense brain activity through the scalp behind the ears on the chin and critically near the eyes. Those would allow the researchers to monitor and record every even slight eye movements when you're eyes move in their sockets, it creates an electrical current which is detected by the electrodes

and recorded, says Concoly. Concoly also trained each research participant to help them achieve lucidity and instructed them on what to do if they succeeded. That included learning to recognize the specific sound she would play when they entered REM sleep, prompting the participants to realize their dreaming and thus become lucid. As the volunteer, Mazurak signaled his awareness, Concoli played a randomly selected audio recording, 8 minus 6. A few seconds later, Conkley saw Missouri's response

written among the peaks and valleys of his eyes electrical signals, too. Pretty wild stuff. So not only does this prove that you can communicate with somebody while they're sleeping, which is crazy, like while they're in REM sleep, and they actually double verified it

with like a sleep sheriff or whatever they call it, where they like make sure the results really are what they are. So it's very likely that he really was in his REM cycle when this happened. But it also brings, like, where was he? Like, he said that he was dreaming that he was sleeping in the lab and that somebody told and that he heard this voice and then he answered it, right? He was in REM sleep, but he dreamed that he was sleeping in the lab. So where was he?

Like, how was he in the lab? Was he using input data from his senses while he was asleep and deciding he was in the lab? Is there a dream version of the lab? and then you can think about like, you know, you kind of have that idea, like, just to go against what we were just talking about, like living a whole life in dreams and stuff like that, right? Like you, time dilates and shifts and stuff like that.

But if somebody's talking to you, you can respond in time and in real time with somebody in real space. Like, in real time and space, in reality, you can talk to somebody who's dreaming and they hear it at that same speed in the dream. I don't know. Kind of interesting.

I don't know. There's something at the heart of that that's very fascinating to me that makes it seem a little bit more interesting than the sort of underwhelming way that it was done makes it seem at first. Have we had this conversation before about this exact thing? I don't know. Y'all are tripping me out. I swear to God, Alex Fasiani has talked about this exact same thing before on this show.

Maybe it was a minisode in 2021 when this happened, but I don't think so. Bro, I don't know. I'm hoping someone listening will say yes, we have. Otherwise, is this a dream? Like, I don't know, man. You freak me out. There's something weird about it, right? There's something interesting about that discovery to me that kind of like makes me feel

like dreams are a real place. I don't know why. Though, of course, in Inception. But at the beginning of the episode, I also had seen that man before we even did this episode. That's also fucking weird. So, of course, I must say at this point, because the Chulmini want me to make this clear. It's in the movie Inception, it's not just one of the guys who's sleeping. It's actually everyone who's sleeping while lucidly dreamwalking through someone else's dreams. So it's really

less like this real, tangible scientific discovery and more like the incredibly dubious notion of dream telepathy, which nevertheless has at times been championed by everyone from Sigmund Freud to Jeff the Mungoose's own Nander Fodor, which by the way, did you know there was a movie about Jeff the Mungoose with Simon Pegg? Have you guys seen La Lorona movie that came out a couple years ago? Have you guys noticed how old? Have you guys noticed how old we are now compared to when we started the show? Have you guys noticed that in the last two minutes, 100 years have passed by? Well, how about this? We won't have an episode on it in a couple days. It's our six year anniversary.

That's absolutely insane. I was just kidding about all other stuff, but we are very old. Anyway, there have been far too many years. Ancient, ancient men. Anyway, there have been tons of different experiments into true dream telepathy over the years, which is what I was just talking about. People in dreams just communicating with each other while they're sleeping. Like, I go sleep in my house, Jesse goes to sleep in his house.

We go meet up at the nighthawks at the diner painting and have eggs. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's what dream telepathy is. but even in the talk he was going to give about it, which he didn't give, Freud seemed doubtful at best about the topic. Didn't really think it could be effectively proven. When Nanda Forder brought cases forward a few decades later in the 40s, along with a few other people, their claims were almost immediately annihilated by extremely flimsy evidence. And most of the stories that they brought forward really just sounded more like coincidences than real communication. and there was so much inconsistency around it that it was like not good record keeping or anything.

There's been more serious studies since, including ones at the Maimonides, Mymonides Medical Center in New York in the 1960s and 70s, that nevertheless lost credibility due to, again, messy data. And since then, there hasn't been another successful dream study, though. There was a paper in 2003 that was written about the Maimonides, studies that was trying to validate them, but then that paper got criticized for using shitty data. And any test that has been carried out since has found zero evidence that dream telepathy has ever once taken place ever. But then, if you can't reliably communicate in dreams

while both subjects are sleeping, then let's do what I said I was going to do earlier, head back to the world of psychedelic drugs for a second to answer the question, then what is it like to be in the world of dreams while awake. And maybe the answer to that question is just, it is hella trippy to be in that state. Because let's talk about DMT for a second. Everybody knows here what DMT is. Is that right?

Yeah, but for the listeners, I do not. Can you please explain it to me? There you go. You know, actually, instead of explaining it to you, I'm going to give you a quote to read, Jesse,

from the Imperial College in London. They have an article that gives a clear definition for you to read to the people. How about that? You son of them. DMT is a naturally occurring chemical found in minuscule amounts in the human brain, but also in larger amounts in a number of plant species around the world. Accounts from people who have taken DMT report intense visual hallucinations,

often accompanied by strong emotional experiences and even breakthroughs into what users describe as an alternate reality or dimension. Yeah, in our brains, this chemical is associated with dreams, and it's associated with death experiences, near-death experiences. And it's really not much needed to get you going. And I don't know, it's like a way for our brain to deal with stuff. I don't know exactly what it is. Nobody really does. So they did a study at the National Institute for Health Research Imperial Clinical Research

Facility, again using EEGs electrode caps, just like they did in the other study, gave these test subjects infusions of hella DMT, and just tracked what happened in their brain activity. And what they found was that it actually affects our brains much differently than most psychedelics do, just like Salvia, actually. So not in the same way of Salvia, but in a similar way, different than the rest of the psychedelics. So for example, alpha waves, which are our main brain waves we give when we're like awake. That's like awake brain waves are the alpha waves.

They go way down, which is weird. And then theta waves, which are like the dream waves, they go way up, they spike up. even though these people are awake. So now our wake brainwaves are down and our dream brainwaves are up while we're awake. And that's weird because most psychedelics like shrooms or LSD or anything just drop all your brain waves down in general. Even weirder to imagine than that, though, is that it also makes their brain activity way more chaotic, which is like the opposite of what happens when you're asleep or you're under

anesthesia where your brain activity just becomes very simple. And then even wier than that is that in from that chaos emerges an emergent brain pattern organically that forms a new type of order in your brain with your brain waves that results in a fully transportative waking experience. Okay. So here's a quote from Mathis to read from researcher Chris Timmerman from the Center of Psychedelic Research. From the altered brainwaves and participants reports, it's clear these people, are completely immersed in their experience. It's like daydreaming only far more vivid and immersive. It's like dreaming but with your eyes open. Yeah. And here's another one to read from Dr. Robert Robin Carhart Harris, who's the head of the Center for Psychedelic Research, is for Jesse to

read. DMT is a particularly intriguing psychedelic. The visual vividness and depth of immersion produced by high doses of the substance seems to be on a scale above what is reported with more widely studied psychedelics such as silocyblins, silocyclin, silocybin, or magic mushrooms. Silocybin. It's hard to capture and communicate what it is like for people experiencing DMT, but likening it to dreaming while awake or near-death experience is useful. Our sense, uh, our sense it. I think it's is.

Our sense is, I assume, that research with DMT may yield importance insights into the relationship between brain activity and consciousness. And this small study is the first step, a first step along that road. So, Chaluminauts, I ask you again, is there a place we all go when we dream? I think that after these three Chulamati sanction modules we've covered here today, it's safe to say that yes, in some sense, there is. but is it a place within our own minds or a place we legitimately share with each other across space or dare I say time but alas perhaps we'll cover that in another module next time in part two huh and that is weird that is all that's all the pamphlet says that's time out time out what is what is what is the agenda here i don't what is the agenda of the as the mouthpieces they don't tell us

anything they just say go out and talk about it what do you think they're trying to sure is a lot of stuff about getting into people's put sure is a lot of research about putting ideas and people's heads. That's all I'm saying. I don't know what they're up to. What are they suggesting that people listen to this podcast when they go to sleep in night? I don't know. I don't know what they're suggesting. I can't speak on that and it would be against my safety to comment on it. Yeah, I hope no one takes our audio and then splits the tracks revealing that there's in fact a fourth audio track and which is just like budge lumini merch, budge lumina. Patreon.com slash Patreon.com. Patreon.com slash chelomiton. That's all I have my pamphlet.

You know, I got to say it wasn't that bad of an episode after all, even though it was not my own outline. It was just the Chaluminati's outline. I thought it was pretty good. So, you know, what's the last word on dreams? Magical, paranormal. Is there anything to this at all?

I mean, maybe I should just let you, I should let you reserve judgment, like maybe till next time. Let me sleep on it. Let me sleep on. I get back to you. No, I got an answer. for you. Incredibly magical.

Dreams as a concept are insane. The idea that even like you can watch a dog have a dream. The idea that spiders, there's footage of spiders. Like you can watch as living things close their eyes and in their most vulnerable state escape their current reality to go do something that is insane. like that's magic. That's all factual. It doesn't like how you look at it at the end of the day,

it's still just something magical that is almost unexplainable. And we don't really have answers as a people, as scientists, as whatever. And it's fascinating. I love it. It doesn't mean that it's like we went to another dimension, but it's,

it doesn't not not mean that. Like, who knows, man? Yeah. I mean, I don't know for sure how I feel about this. Maybe, maybe next time we finish our dream episode, uh,

with the extra large Onei Romancey module. Maybe we'll have some idea about what dreams are. Or maybe you can already, maybe you already know what's going to happen next week. Perhaps. What dreams may come here. Perhaps it came to you in a dream. Just kidding.

Or am I? Anyway, I'm going to close out with a quote from a true story, as told by my favorite ever comic book writer, Grant Morrison, about a time when they took some psychedelic tablets in Kathmandu and met some beings from another place. who showed them the nature of reality outside of time and space as we experience it as humans here on this planet. On this place, just to get your mind grapes juice in a little bit.

I'll read this one myself. Here we go. I'm starting to grasp the concept. Our physical bodies are equivalent to computer game sprites or chess pieces. The entire universe I've grown up in and will die in is a constructed playing field. The super reality I'm experiencing is simply what you see when you break concentration and look up from the game. As a final demonstration, I'm shown how to detach a smaller fractal foam blob from the substance of my own fluid mirror body.

The infant blob is holographic, I'm told, and contains the complete informational content of the parent intelligence. It anchors itself into the liquid information we're swimming through and begins to crackle and fizz at the edges. I can't imagine how I could have forgotten this. I know what's about to happen. The baby blobs hissing like Sherbet, grown. and folding up all around until it's everywhere. This is how we start a game and it's time to play again. My eyes are still open and there's a bolster supporting my neck. I can almost feel the extremities of my body extending out into directions we can't point to in three-dimensional space,

but it's only for moments. Catmandu jigsaws itself together in one awkward instant and I'm back in the world, back in the game, shaken. Patreon.com slash Chulminati pod. If you want more writing about stuff like that, check out Grant Morrison on Substack. Thank you for listening. See you next time. Bye. Bye. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Trulamati podcast.

As always, I'm one of your host, Mike Martin, joined by the... They are. There's two... What? Terrence Hill and Bud Spencer. No. Neo and Trinity. No.

I don't understand. And I probably never will. Let me just tell you right now. that there's two Leon Kennedy and Claire Redfield. I'm telling you, I think he literally just looked up, famous duos. Cheech and Charles.

And he's been going through the list ever since. I'm trying to dig deep. Which one of you is Dick Powell? Me? Your name's Jesse Cox. To lose my knowledge. I want to. Hello, I want to Luminati.

I want my Mardi Hello everybody. Welcome back to the Jluminati podcast. As always, I'm one of your host, Mike Martin, joined by Alex and Jesse. Like a shooting star across the sky that's actually a U.S.