Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 240 - The Legend of Belle Starr - Part 2

Episode Date: March 2, 2024

It's the end of the road for the legendary Bandit Queen Belle Starr this week on Chilluminati! MERCH - http://www.theyetee.com/collections/chilluminati Special thanks to our sponsors this episode - All you lovely people at HTTP://PATREON.COM/CHILLUMINATIPOD Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - http://www.youtube.com/user/superbeardbros Editor - DeanCutty http://www.twitter.com/deancutty Art Commissioned by - http://www.mollyheadycarroll.com Theme - Matt Proft

There was blood on the saddle And blood on the ground And a great big puddle of blood All around Hello everybody and welcome back to the Chiluminati podcast episode 240. As always, I'm one of your hosts, Mike Martin, joined by the Vanessa and oh fuck, what's her name? Vanessa and oh fuck, what's her name of LA?

Vanessa and oh fuck, what's her name of LA? Jesse and Alex. How's it going boys? I'm definitely the what's her name of LA? Jesse and Alex. How's it going boys? I'm definitely the what's her name for sure I was going for a video game reference a pretty obscure RPG from the early 2000s a PC RPG in particular So obscure you couldn't remember it. You couldn't remember what's her name? What's her name? Yeah, it's from it was from the vampire the masquerade bloodlines game. It's the twins I don't understand you went RPG and you didn't pick the Eryth and Tifa of L Like what's going on? Why would I do that? That's too that's too like people know that too well Jesse's the Tifa

Hell yeah, I am that's less. I think some people I think some people will be surprised to find that Jesse is the Tifa Jeans Alex, you're the reason I cried for the first time at a video game. I'm just excited that So many people want to see me naked You look great in a bathing suit you look great in a bathing suit. I hear you I'm just excited that so many people want to see me naked. That's just. Yes. You look great in that bathing suit. You look great in that bathing suit. Thank you. I hear this is the best Final Fantasy ever made.

I really have high hopes for us. I think I'm going to make it this time. But in case you don't, you have the backup, which is our Patreon. Isn't that right? That's right. If you are so upset about impending that you just don't know what to do with all that money. If you don't know what to do, Dean's got to censor that spoiler. What are you talking about? What is the set? What?

Hey, Bruce Willis the whole time in sixth sense. He's the whole time. Yeah, but OK, but like, no, you got to do that one too. So many new fans are coming on with the remake, you know, Dean, cover it all. Dean, beep it all. Beep all this. Just have it be. Just have it be a huge beep. Just all of this talking three different beeps. Nope, nope. Dean, replace it with factoids from the movie Dune.

You know what? Replace it with factoids about the Dune 2 popcorn bucket. Yeah. Things we learned about the Dune 2 popcorn bucket. That's it. That's the winner. While we're talking about Dean, also shout out to Dean for the little country inspired intro for last week

And I assume this week's country themed episodes. I want to say people on red or like who's the girl Why is there a random girl? It's very funny. Who was the girl? Just a like a bot. I don't know if you are not Prepared for the impending final fantasy seven character go to patreon dot com slash to the body pod and spend some of that tear money on our tears get it the pun came around we're there and what you get is not just more of these incredible jokes. What other great things? Other great things like ad-free episodes, episodes of our incredibly critically lauded podcast, Rotten Popcorn, in which we educate Mathis on the finest films in the film canon, one after the other. I educate them in the finest films at the other end of the film canon spectrum. One of them was literally maybe a Bigfoot snuff film.

It was fucked up. Head over there, check that out. You get Mel's absolutely mind-blastingly incredible art every single time. It's great, like you gotta see this month's one. I don't even wanna spoil it. Just go check it out. I'm just excited to see it myself.

Yeah, patreon.com slash shalubinani pod. Uh, if you are playing Final Fantasy seven rebirth and for whatever reason, you are not feeling so great at the end or surprisingly great. Maybe you're feeling surprisingly great. We don't know how it's going to shake out. I'm excited to find out. It's like they took the same spoiler and used it again. How do they do that?

How'd they do it? Luke's Luke's Luke just found out about his dad twice. Square just pulled the YouTuber influence Twitch or reusing the same content in a different medium for more and more. This is the ultimate spoiler warning. This is like the ultimate like tip of the hat to the people who really, really care about spoilers.

They're like, hey, watch this, we're doing it again. You're an asshole for spoiling this twice. Thank you for your support. I love you I you know all jokes aside. Thank you guys for helping us make this podcast It's really great patreon.com slash chilluminati pod boys Are you excited to go back to the Wild West today to wrap up the series on the legendary bandit queen Bell star? I'm shocked. It's still going but we learned a lot from last week, so I'm interested I feel like she lived and died last week Right, like I thought we went through the whole store. I don't know what this week is except for maybe

Talking about the Digimon. That's all I know Well, we got to open with that. I love our community by the way I cannot believe how spot-on we were with that fucking bit. That is so fucking there was like yeah There's a fucking Bell star Digimon. That's just... She has her own anime. She has her own anime, that's right. It's like she's everywhere and somehow we didn't realize it. I mean, probably because... Like, who...

Who... like, why would you ever think, oh yeah, based on bell star, that infamous lady thief outlaw? That's true. I mean, like, my mind was blown to learn that black bell was based on her last week. I was like oh shit, but you know what now that we've done this episode. We're part of anime history her memories finally honored by us today when we unlock the anime cultural reference of bell star for all of them. star for all of you. Are we like part of anime officially or just like part of the history of anime?

If we were part of anime officially, I think the three tropes of our characters, math, this would be the guy who's like, whoa, no, Fuji Kama. Right, that'd be that guy. Alex would be the dude who's like, I shouldn't be here. I was Isakai into this crazy world, right? And then I'm the sexy old lady who's like, oh, that's me. You're like Misato from Evangelion. That's your vibe.

I'm more like the old man in Dragon Ball Z. I was literally gonna say, Jesse, you're way more of a master Roshi than you are of an old grandma. Yeah. He's kind of a combination of both, if you think about it. Yeah, like sexy, like a sexy one. He's like a sexy, young, old lady. Yeah, like old yeah, like yeah, that's me. That's me sexy young old lady man

Jesse Cox yeah, someone draw that and put it on our subreddit, please Well, we're going into bell star part two we're gonna talk about what today's about but a big shout out to today's main source a Book by the name of Bell Star and Her Times I referenced this last week by author Glenn Shirley. And let me just say, that's a great title. This author is a man after my own heart. This entire book is written with an annoyance, a distaste shall I say for previous journalistic attempts.

And the entire like 400 page book has this like annoyed Sarcastic tone through the entire thing and I fucking love it. I fucking yeah I fucking love when that happens a lot in the JFK world also. Yeah, sometimes it lands Sometimes it does not land like in the case of Governor Jesse Ventura that did not land like but uh, I love the vitriol I love somebody who cares seriously like a huge shout out like the first 30 pages are dedicated to kind of tearing apart a lot of these people who were kind of made a lot of fake news, basically even back then. But the last 120 pages are sources.

This dude like spent years looking for like digging up newspapers and received all the court records and all this stuff from the 1800s to piece together who bell star Truly was because by the time he was writing this book She was already just like a huge legend in pop culture and stuff and was only getting bigger and bigger Which was around the 70s 80s this book came out So while last week gentlemen, we kind of discovered and talked about a notorious individual from the Wild West, a woman who against all odds of her times and her most unfortunate of sexes,

grew to have fierce independence and command over her life from a young age, partially due to her high-end education at the time, thanks to her well-off father who owned land in a hotel, but also due to her growing up around Wild West bandits of legend, like Jesse James, after being forced to move from her home state out to Texas, where the Civil War basically forced her out there.

And mind you, her family were Confederate loyalists. She would go on to marry at least four times, each time to someone who ran within the criminal rings of the era, a mastermind for each of her husbands. She kind of became known as the brains behind the operations, a mastermind for each of the her husband, she kind of became known as the brains behind the operations, behind multiple high-scale bank robberies, wagon robberies, cattle and horse theft and even murder. This is amazing. Only to be taken by surprise in her early 40s by an unknown individual, even today, who

placed two shotgun shells in her back where she would topple from her horse and die on that very road. And it is a hell of an engaging story. But it all stems from one very particular source. It started with a quote, and I am going to copy paste. And Jesse, why don't you read this? This is coming from a newspaper released February 6th in 1889. Word has been received from Euphala, Indian Territory, that Bell Star was killed there Sunday night. Bell was the wife of Cole Younger. Jim Star, her second husband, was shot down by the side of Bell less than two years ago. Bell Star was the most desperate woman that ever figured on the borders. She married Cole Younger directly after the war, but left him in joined a band of outlaws that operated

in the Indian Territory. She has been arrested for murder and robbery a score of times, but always managed to escape. This is the coolest person that we have done an episode about. Period. It's wild. This two paragraph little snippet was the first piece of, shall we say, Bellstar lore that sparked so much to come over the next hundred or so years. What's true about that post and what's not is heavily subject to debate as most of the rumors of Bell's escapades proved to be precisely that.

Rumors, this newspaper post sent to newspapers across the country in hopes of being bought, picked up and printed, was ignored almost entirely by the country at large, saved a very few, including the New York Times. This became front page news on the New York Times. But this and a couple of other newspapers being the only ones that picked it up proved to be all that was needed for it to catch the attention of a man by the name of Richard Kyle Fox. A quote-unquote shall we say

journalist at the time. What? What do you say like that? Well, let's get to it. We need to talk about who this man is. What would make you call him a journalist? Why would you call him a journalist? Well, because he called himself a journalist and other people of the era called him a journalist. Referred to him as such. Yes, referred to him as such, but we'll talk about that as we get to know him. Yeah, so who is this guy?

Well, Fox was an Irish immigrant who was born in Belfast, Ireland in 1846 and immigrated to the United States in 1874. He initially worked as a journalist and eventually acquired the financially struggling National Police Gazette. Fox then revitalized the Gazette, turning into one of the most popular and widely read publications of its time. He focused primarily on sensational content including true crime, scandal, and sports coverage. In fact, what's interesting about this guy is how much he loved sports. Box had a deep fascination with for boxing, which was often seen as kind of a disreputable sport

at the era. He played a pivotal role, though, in popularizing the sport in the United States. He organized high- high profile boxing matches, including the famed bare knuckle championship bout between John L. Sullivan and Patty Ryan in 1882. The National Police Gazette became the main source of boxing news results in fighter profiles. He really like... So he just wrote this shit?

Yeah, yeah. So he wrote a lot of... So he is a journalist? Right. No, yeah. Okay. Yeah. The he wrote a lot of so he is a journalist, right? No, yeah, okay Yeah, the Gazette gained notoriety for its racy content focus on crime and Illustrations some considered risque at the time and many critics viewed Fox as a purveyor of low-brow entertainment And the Gazette attracted moral condemnation from some quarters So, you know, like this is he's kind of got a salacious little magazine. It's like cells, crime cells. Like even back then, true crime, who so like was like very, very popular and like flying off the shelves. But back then, what else was there to do? I guess.

You know, what's kind of funny is like, there's always this sort of like, pushback from society against stuff like this. That's like, Oh, this stuff is like trash. Like why are you reading that bullshit? Like you guys are just writing like the lowest common denominator stuff. It's just so stupid. You're so bad for it. And then they were vindicated by the trending tab on Twitter. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And like the front page of Reddit, like 100 bajillion percent. 100 bajillion. The moment the people could speak for what they wanted, they were like poop, farts, all the cats under the safety of an enmity where they don't have to take any repercussions can truly admit their deepest, most based desires. Poop, fart, cats, murder, titties, food, humans in a nutshell. Yeah, none of that.

Boom. Now that's unique. Yeah. No, not at all. And so when he bought the Gazette, none of that. Boom. None of that's unique. Yeah. No, not at all. And so when he bought the Gazette, he knew that he needed to begin catering to a new audience. He understood that the working class man of the era craved escapism and excitement. And so he shifted the Gazette's content accordingly. Salacious and scandalous crime, uh, crime was like a big part, uh, but the focus expanded to include lured tales,

race illustrations, and gossip columns. This combination was a recipe for success with the target audience. And his love of boxing was central to this revamp. He covered fights in dramatic detail, and champion fighters in hyping up upcoming events. He was the very first and champion fighters and hyping up upcoming events. He was the very first hype man. Fox is the reason sports are promoted and touted specifically within martial arts and boxing and stuff, the way they are to this day. He was the first one to pair them up, do interviews,

hype up the fight coming during a time where they did not really see boxing as a real sport that anybody should care about. So this guy, this guy's kind of cool. He seems like he's pretty cool so far. Yeah, this man was more influential on the American public than the public itself even knows. But that same mentality was also put forth for news that it covered and gossip columns, obviously along with it, with most of his sources being, and I quote, oldsters from the mountain fastness of the elegannies, remote bayous and swamps of the south to the scattered prairie hamlets, lumber and mining camps, jerkwater railroad stops, and desert waystations of the west. Those were this man found his sources for his news and his stories.

Alright. The time period this is all occurring also is heavily relevant to where we're going. See, at the time of him picking up the Bell Star story, Star and Fox had been, or Fox rather had been in a bit of a problem. Most of the old bandit heroes and all the old villains of the West were either gone or dead by now. Sam Bass, Billy the Kid and others. And Fox at this point was doing, is like losing his mind because he nor his writers could come up with any more Western villains or hero stories to put out in his cheap dime magazine where he would basically be one of the crux reasons it would sell a magazine by the way that was most

commonly circulated at the time in bar rooms brothels gambling houses billiard halls Tonsorial parlors and livery stables gambling houses, billiard halls, tonsorial parlors in livery stables. The idea of being in a brothel and being like, let me get my cowboy book is like fucking hilarious. What weird creatures we are. Yeah. And how very little we've changed.

Jesse, were you about to say something? No, I was trying to think of at the time. Where else would you like, there's only so many places to go? Right? Yeah. So there is no library. So if you're going to get a book, you're going to be like, I'm going to the brothel to read. It just has the vibe of like bringing a switch to a whorehouse. Sure. I don't know. I think it just seems. Yeah.

It just seems like not as tight, like not that suave of a play. That's all. I don't know. It's the guys who go to the strip club to get the buffet. Yeah. Yeah. It seems like not as tight, like not that suave of a play. That's all. I don't know. It's the guys who go to the strip club to get the buffet. Yeah. Yeah. Which like have some self respect guys, like go to a better strip strip club. Probably it's well Fox News audience. And like you said, like, where else are they going to go?

A lot of this time period is settling, you know, or colonizing land and taking it for themselves and building on it. And they're working and, you know, they're all manual labor and they have little pop-up towns. So like, what is it also going to be there other than a brothel, a bar? You're not going to read at the bar, right? Yeah. You're not going to have to go to the city for like, you're probably like, you

know, a New York times thing. Bars get rowdy. You can't read there. Oh yeah. Trust me, I played Red Dead. I know it should get, you know, you throw punches like nothing after a little bit time How about just in the grass? No, that's where you get that's where you get attacked by rattlers, bro

Maybe the West is wilder than I thought maybe you had to hide in the brothel to even get it get in a peaceful reading That's what I'm saying Maybe that's like the main reason they would rent the rooms Yeah, there was a lot of reading was going on. So much reading, dude. Maybe that's what it all was. It was the, that's what it is. Right. Cause reading was like, look down upon back then.

Question. Should we open a bookstore called the book brothel? Oh, yes. I'm just putting it out there. Yes. Horn the nerds, dude. They're like, only, only erotica is what we sell. There's literally a bookstore right up the block from me.

I think it's still there. It's called the ripped bodice and it is exactly this vibe and I think you can even maybe drink there I'm not a hundred percent sure, but I think you might be able to I'm just saying What if we did this and we were the ones who made the money got to expand it's time for chilluminati to expand beyond podcasting into brothel bookstores into prostitution. Yeah, that's what you do. Yeah, it's a good idea. But yeah, back to the old West. This is a time period where most of the bandits and the villains of the past are gone and he's desperate for a story, some story somewhere. His magazine, Being in All Those Areas, is no surprise that it was being consumed by a majority of the men

in the US at the time and to be noted, not so insignificant portion of women as well, but notably much smaller in number than the men were consuming this. To these people, these stories that Fox published sort of formed a weird and strange structure of moral and ethics and honor. It affected politics at the time and, quote, had a more profound impact on our culture that the works of all other romantic writers of the periods did not like no other books being written at the time came close to influencing culture than Fox's 10 dot dime piece magazines were.

It was just, do you think they're like why Cowboys are the way they are today? I think, I mean, I think it definitely started here because it was all fabricated stories in a lot of ways. Like the Billy the Kid stuff. Like the Wild Bunch. Yeah. Like those movies where the Cowboys just like blow each other away in like huge groups, like. Yeah.

Falling off balconies and shit. Yeah. I mean, there's some truth to that stuff. There's still some truth to like shootouts, but it wasn't like guns. Those are falling off balconies all the time. Yelling back off of a balcony. Walking right up to the edge of the balcony and then they click their heels together and

they put their hands straight up in the air and then they flip right over the front of the balcony and they go, ah! And then they land in the water trough. That's how it works. And a gator is in the water trough and eats him and you see his clothes. No blood anywhere. Yeah, no. No bullet holes, no blood, no nothing.

Just guys stop and then they get straight and they spin a little bit in a circle and then they fall down. Those guys. Yeah, all guns sound like pew, pew, pew. Yeah. Pew, pew.

Yeah, I like that one. That's my favorite gun sound effect in movies. The one that's like, the one that's like, pew, pew, pew. Dude, you did that in sync with knocking your camera and just like it was perfect sound effect for the effect that we got. It was very good. You know that sound. That's fantastic. You know the one. Um, yeah, uh, back back. This is where I think

a lot of that actually probably did start. Um, so with him desperate for a story looking for anything, luckily for Fox at the time, a man by the name of Alton B. Myers was currently stuck in Fort Smith, a very old Western old timing name. I love it. He has a tonic or two for sure available with his name on it. Oh, yeah, I'm sure he definitely does. He was stuck in Fort Smith at the time, which was, quote, a notorious border town

with he was extremely hungry, had no food and only had apparently quote unquote, exactly seven cents to his name at this moment. Tell me this is like the invention of the fucking hamburger or some bullshit like that. Not as cool, unfortunately. Tell me Bellstar like shoots a burger onto the grill and that's how the burger gets made. Bellstar burgers. Holy crap. Fast food chain. It would do super well on the sound. Cowboys and burgers go together. I don't know why, but they do.

And if the year was, what year was this? We're in the 1880s, 1884-ish, 1885. Great. He had $2.37 to his name if we're gonna put that in perspective. Yeah, fair enough. Keep that because I have some other numbers I think coming up as well. Would that be enough at AI Wendy's for achievement? Well, actually here, how much was $600? Surprising?

I don't know. How much was $600 in 1850 money? $23,724 today. Good Lord. That's how much money Belle's dad had when she was a kid. Like that's how much money he had on him basically, like or how much wealth he had to him, plus the land he owned and shit. And you got to think about like how much it cost to do anything is. Oh yeah, everything was cheap, extremely cheaper.

That's why I'm like seven cents. I feel like Alton B. Meyers is like, oh God, I'm so hungry. Seven cents could have got you something. You know what I mean? Yeah, something. But and that's what like where their story picks up. He's on the streets of Fort Smith looking to find a place where he can buy some food for seven cents because he's super hungry while still desperately also. He works for newspapers and stuff looking for some sort of story.

And while he's wandering around hungry, I feel I also picked from was like five foot nothing, like a five foot nothing, completely completely bald like a little bit of a pop. Baggins in a little in a little in a little derby. They're whiny, you know, like just like kind of just sad on himself. And as he was walking through the streets, he heard someone shout, I'll be damned. They've gone kill Bell Star. At this point in time, Myers took a moment. He knew that name somewhere, but it only took a few seconds before the memory came back and he knew Bell Star, the supposed bandit queen.

And with all her criminal activities and rumors, he ran off to the nearest telegraph office and within hours, he'd had a cash advance hotel room and a belly full of warm food thanks to the police gizette that Fox owned. And now with a belly feeling full and happy and warm, he had to deliver on a story. He told him about the story, but now he had to deliver it, and a few weeks later, Myers mailed off his manuscript to the gizette, and it read the following which Alex you will

read. Of all the women of the Cleopatra type since the days of the Egyptian Queen herself, the universe has produced none more remarkable than Bella Star, the Bandit Queen. Her character was a combination of the very worst as well as some of the very best traits of her sex. She was more amorous than Anthony's mistress, more relentless than Pharaoh's daughter, and braver than Joan of Arc. Of her, it may be well said that Mother Nature was indulging in one of her rarest freaks

when she produced such a novel specimen of a woman kind. Bella was not only well educated but gifted with uncommon musical and literary talents which were almost thrown away through the bias of her nomadic and lawless disposition, which early country and under an assumed name, she brightened the social circle for a week or a month and then was perhaps lost forever. How do you think? What do you think? You sold? I? You sold? Would you buy that? That gets sent to you. for a week or a month and then was perhaps lost forever. How do you think? What do you think? You sold? I?

You sold? Would you buy that? That gets sent to you. Now you printing that? I just want to say for the record, the opening of all the women of the Cleopatra type. Cleopatra type. Since the days of the Egyptian queen herself, the universe has never produced anyone, anyone more remarkable than Bell Star. That is a, that is a pitch, if I've ever heard one for the coolest person ever.

Yeah, I love she's Bella Star now. Like it's like a little bit more flourished up, which is kind of interesting. I love that he went and forgive me if I'm wrong about this, right? Anthony's mistress, that's Cleopatra, right? Yeah, yes, yeah, yeah. Pharaoh's daughter, that's Cleopatra, right? Yeah, it's all Cleopatra, except for Joan of Arc. Except he just ran out of stuff to say about Cleopatra

and just said, braver than Joan of Arc. You threw it in, he had to get another one in there. You can already see from the newspaper announcement to here how much has already been layered on to Bell Star's legend beyond even going into the exploits that they simply begin to make up in these things. I mean, this is not factual language, right? No, none of this is real. I mean, not even real. I'm just saying like, you can't say

somebody's the prettiest woman in the world as like a fact. You can't say she's braver than say it. Yeah. But this is it's a it's a subjective statement. Like, you can't get it. But I'm just saying like time magazines, most handsome man of 2024 or whatever. And who says he's the most handsome man of 2024? Time magazine? Whatever, whoever. Life? Who does it? Life.

I don't know, I don't know. Total read magazine. All I mean is it seems like what they're doing rather than even just making up lies at this point is just kind of like creating like a like a fucking D&D character at this point. Like this is just, we're talking about stuff that's like, she was cool, she was like, spicier than kimchi. Like you're just like, what are you talking about? That's not a fact. That's just like a fun thing to say about anyone. You know, I don't know.

That's the fun thing about it. Cause it's like, is this journalism? I don't know. It's important to know too though, from the newspaper clipping, from the beginning, the part where it says she was the most desperate woman that ever figured on the borders and all this other stuff All that also was not true All of that she she did run her criminals and we're gonna get to what she actually did and what her life was truly like

But the stories of her murdering people and running bank robberies and being basically the queen of all the criminals in that circle Not true. Yeah, it just seems like this guy was a better writer than the guy at the other newspaper, is my wife. Oh, well, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Well, this got sent to Fox, regardless, and this, obviously, was just too damn good for him to pass up.

And so, not only did he decide he would fully go on with printing the story, but he decided it was even too good for his 10- cent gazette as an article to be read once and moved on from. So instead, that summer, he published a 25 cent paperback titled, and this is of course an 1800s title, Belastar the Bandit Queen or the female Jesse James, a full and authentic history of the dashing female highwaymen with copious extracts from her journal, handsomely and profusely illustrated. Well, Star, the female Jesse Cox. There is something going on here that I think is so...

I don't want to pin this on the rest of the world, but it's very American in that it fits that spot that it's a woman who is tough as nails and she's like out there banging dudes and shooting guys and getting crazy and doing all of the engaging things, right? All these things, but at the same time, it's being marketed as like, you'll never believe, gentlemen, the crazy things. And it's this thing where you understand immediately why she's popular because it's both, wow, I can't believe this lady did these things. That's, oh, what a terrible woman. But at the same time, they're also like, God, I wish I was hanging out with that lady.

It's almost also like a willing, you're almost like asking the audience and the audience is like willingly Suspending their disbelief and we're like just willing to believe that life is more exciting by reading these like clearly Bullshit things in a newspaper like I don't know like something about it It feels like the vibe is that like we're all having fun here, right? Like it's just like yeah It is very much that right but but it's being pitched as outrageous, right? The way that Matt is describing the book title of it, it's this idea that's like, gentlemen, can you believe this young lady?

And then, but at the same time, what's in it is salacious and like meaty. And it's like, you just know there's nothing has changed. It's the exact same idea of like, women need to be proper and sweet, but also when we're alone, I hope you're a nasty freak. Like that is, it has not changed ever in media. It's just what it is.

Yeah. There's just something about the idea of the, there's just something funny to me about the idea of like, okay, like, for example, I could just buy a story about this, right? Like I could just go buy a completely fictional story at the bookstore about this. That's probably better even than this. But for some reason, the people who are buying it, right, they want, they know it's bullshit. They know it's just fake, but they want it.

Do they? It's the same at the time. Do they? It's the same as like Love Island. Yeah. I think there's a part of them that might know it's like a little elaborated, but I truly think because these people are real and it's being sold in a way that's like, it's the thing that the, you know, you can't get anywhere else. The dirty, dirty news of the

truth of how these people lived, you know, through these magazines, tabloids, essentially. I do think they kind of believe that this is kind of how they live their life. If they didn't, it wouldn't have been such a like huge thing back then. There were so many fucking bandits and criminals back then. Well, it's like Jean-Benet Ramsey in the tabloids though too. You know what I mean? Like at some point the tabloids are like, alien is, uh, abduction, conspiracy, Jean-Benet Ramsey? Like, you know, like-

Yeah, but you also got to remind, you got to remember like, this is still kind of like printed media and stuff is not super old. Like, there's not a lot of like- This was the truth. We're still learning. This is the birth of this printed media and stuff is not super old like there's not a lot of like this was the truth We're still learning. This is the birth of this at that stuff like we're in an arrow and that this is doesn't exist yet I sent you a picture as well a link. It's the picture of the actual cover of what the book looked like When you want to pick it up on the oh hell yeah, it's an illustrated picture. It's not a photo of her That's all that's an illustrated picture again. I mentioned last week, but I'll say it again when you look online for her the vast majority are not her They're either actors or actresses or illustrations the pictures of her that exists

She's just like a normal-looking person, but everything created about about her is dramatized or sexualized or a little over the top or like it's a lady in a like a fine sexualized or a little over the top or like it's a lady in a like a fine 1800s dress with guns. And it's like she 100% would have worn that to go rob people. Yeah. No, yeah. Right. Exactly. Yeah. And that's and that's the thing that happens with like every fun. Anybody who's done anything cool, we are just just dying to make them even cooler. Sure. Yeah. Like we're just like Davey Crockett or like Jesse James or these people normal people can do these super cool things. That means maybe one day can be the hero of my own story and do something.

Sergeant York, you know. Yeah. And you know what's funny too is like even today in like Red Dead 2, which I say today that games like fucking five years old. No, man. It's crazy. The character in there, Blackbell or whatever her name is. Hmm, she looks like the one from the book, not the real one. Yes.

Which is kind of interesting too. Like, it's not like we finally like got over this image of Belle Star. No. And we're going to talk about why that's the case. Like, we got a little bit more to learn here about like why this legend has persisted like this for so, so, so long. But before we get to that, lucky, luckily for Fox, this book fucking flew off of the shelves. Now, in the title of the book, it says with copious extracts from her journal.

This is very important because this is the linchpin to so much of why this continually persisted for a century or an a half longer, really. Just straight up fake because there is no fucking journal. Yeah, there is no journal, but that gave Fox a complete blank slate to write anything he wanted about the crimes she did that she supposedly tracked meticulously for some reason in her journal, even the step by steps of like how the crime happened and all this shit. So he's literally just actually stealing her voice even.

He's like, yeah, completely stealing everything about her and making her somebody she was not. Thousands of copies flew off the shelves, which was crazy for back then. But alas, today it is basically impossible to find a copy. Never mind a fully intact copy alone. It was reprinted in 1960 with like kind of what it would have looked like and what the stuff was from what they had from remaining copies. But it's really hard to find an actual full copy of this book. We do have and know we have an incomplete copy that's archived in the Texas State Library,

but there's also a near perfectly kept copy that does exist that unfortunately instead of being in public display in a museum or something is in or was in the private collection of former US Senator William A. Blakely. At least it was before he passed. In my cursory research looking to see who has it or where it went turned up fucking nothing. Granted, it was not the focus of my research. I spent a ton of time looking for it, but I couldn't find it. But it does exist out there.

Like there is, it just sucks. It belongs to, you know, a private collection. Also, this just in real time, not to spoil the thing, but I we talked about a Wendy's a second ago. Oh, yeah. They back down. It's over. We win. The war is over.

Humans win. It's a AI is done. We defeated it. Yep. Wendy's will never return to that idea. Isn't that crazy? This is the most action packed chlumanati of ever of all times. I can't wait for someone seven months from now to be like, I don't know what you're talking about.

I know. Yeah, I know. It would be completely AI Wendy's guys. Look it up. It's going to be all over the history books. The first war, the first victory in the long, in the long fought battle. Anyway, regardless, this proved to be exactly what Fox was looking for, right? And it flew off the shelves. And just one year later after the book released, the book appeared in another publication called Street and Smith of New York published number 35 in the Secret Service series, a sensational paperback adventures and exploits

of the younger brothers, Missouri's most daring outlaws and companions of the James boys. That book was part of a very popular stage. You can almost think of it like an early top list. The whole book is in that book? No, no, no, no. So you can think of the book as like a list of like top 10s list or top 100 list of like criminals and cool and like people who lived in these areas like a neat about outlaws and they used Fox's book as the source for where they got that information, which was which popularized the book even further. Interesting. So now we're like taking it away from having to have a copy of that book to see how fake or true it is. You can just say, oh, there's a book that says that in there.

So it's true. Yeah. It was it was a 64 page chapter, if I remember correctly, up to double. I might be thinking of the other book that we're about to talk about. We'll get there. But basically, in this particular portion of this book, there were things that were told about Belle that were just so fucking inaccurate

that I didn't even bother bringing them into last week's Legends episodes. Just banana sandwich, like killed 10 men, like crazy nonsense that just did not remotely happen. But again, none of that mattered, right? Bell even went on to become internationally famous at this time as well, post-mortem. A man by the name of Victor Crosnier de Varigny, who was an Italian news correspondent in New York, whose work often ended up in Rome and Milan, had heard from an acquaintance who had heard from Fox all about Bell Star and her death. And instead of checking any of the sources, he took it all at face value and lifted a ton of stuff

from both Fox's Gazette and other rumors before publishing a 344 page novel titled La Femme U a Taunie, which would reprint here in the US at an 1895 titled The Women of the United States. The Women of the United States, like a fucking wildlife book? Yeah, it's fucking exactly that. I just want to say for the record, we are blessed that we exist in a time period where if someone tells you something you can fucking you Can just look it up and call them on the spot for the vast majority of history even leading up until

The early 2000s if someone said shit to you You had to just assume they knew what they were talking about or you had to know better There was no well. I think you're incorrect, sirs. Like, well, prove me wrong. Well, I can't. All right, then you're right. The person he heard it from was a doctor. Not that that really means anything at the time, especially, but I think he meant for him, it was like a little more. Yeah. Like, surely this doctor is not full of shit. Yeah. But he was just the doctor. The doctor was just a fan of the book. He liked the book a lot and just told him about it. That's what I'm saying. Let us be frank. Let us be frank.

Let us be frank though. We are certainly not implying that this has not happened on this very program before probably more than we even realized. And it happens so much that like it happens on the news constantly and also on TV shows that have plenty of time to do their research. Sure.

So you gotta always check. Everybody can be wrong. We always try, man. We try to do our like deep research, but you mess up every once in a while, right? Like it's going to happen. Everyone can be wrong. You can be wrong. Get ready. The books title being the women of the United States is just like so bizarre to me.

Like you said, it's kind of like a wild like animal. Like like birds of the northern American, like, you know, like Pacific Northwest. Wild. like birds of the northern American like you know like Pacific Northwest wild but because of that her name spread beyond America in the in 1895. Like as early as that bell star was becoming known internationally which might be why we have bells star mon. I did you want now because like she was cannot believe that it's not. Um but here things can pound it even, continuing to spread more inaccuracies and lies that built into her story. A man named Samuel Hartman, a professional juryman in Judge Isaac C. Parker's federal

court with a bit of legal and newspaper knowledge, wrote a 720-page book that he sold for $2 titled Hell on the Border. He hanged 88 men. Which is all about the Judge Judge Parker and how he supposedly hung 88 men through his courts and stuff. But there was a 64 page chapter dedicated to Bell Star, her daring exploits, her run-ins with Judge Parker, and her endless escapes from the law. He hanged 80 men.

None of which of that shit was real at all. Why are all these books named? I hate to keep going back to the anime and, you know, train, but like- I keep doing it. Why are all these books named like episodes episodes of an anime like like that are translated or episodes of an anime? Titled like historical texts. You mean you'll find that most most books of a historical nature have to have some sort of subtitle They said but he hanged 88 men. Yeah Yeah, because that's a fucking wild. The book.

Most people. That's just not. Okay, let's put it this way. That's just not the convention of how things are normally subtitled that were originally written in English. Let's put it that way. That's the observation that I'm making. I feel like the cadence of that comes from some kind of weird translation.

I don't think that's actually what it is. It's just named really a weird thing. That's so funny to me. I love the long unnecessary names with like ending with like handsome and profusely illustrated like with the fuck. 356 over two or whatever. So yeah, her name is going beyond the US at this point. And it's already kind of spreading through, you know,

other newspapers and other languages and whatnot. But this is like, this all goes right back to Fox's book. And the reason they take Fox's book, because it says it's based on her journals. And that's all anybody cared about. That was all it needed. And with this new book being published with a 64 page chapter dedicated to exploits that she never did, there was really no stopping the rumors and legends. They rolled on to the point where historians and scholars alike over the following decades

took most of her dangerous but false filled history as fact and did very little to try and dig up historical records all because of the supposed journal that all of this came from, which again, did not exist. Just completely fabricated and turned into Bell Star Adventures, Pikachu, that ketchup does not belong to you. So where does that leave us? That leaves us with the question of like, well then who was Bell Star? And again, thanks to the author Glenn Shirley, who dug up 1800s family records, newspapers,

like land ownership and all this shit, pieced together meticulously and painfully the reality of who Bell Star was. And what we know as fact is what we're about to talk about for a bit. What is true is that her parents that we mentioned, previous episode, were in fact her parents, and that Shirley Family and the Reeds were both moderately well off. They moved in some social circles and Belle was educated at a level that others were not privy to at the time. But beyond that, we actually know pretty much nothing else about her childhood. We do know that they had to move due to the Civil War because their land and house was

taken by the Union and they were forced to move to Texas and they lived out there. But where were they from originally? Missouri. But there's no evidence that they moved and lived in a town where she mingled with outlaws all the time and grew up around Bad people all the time. They did run into each other occasionally but they weren't she wasn't like hanging out and listening to their stories and stuff as Often is told through different tellings of her history in her past What we do know about Belle really begins in her teen years, around 15 or 16 years old.

We only say 15 or 16 because unlike what the rumors say, we don't know the exact year she was born anywhere between 1848 and 1850 is where we think she was because at the point where we pick up her known history, she's about 16 according to some of the records and such. She was participating in the Civil War still, acting as a spy for her brothers who were in the Confederate Army. And she watched some different, you know, Union encampments and such. And at one point almost got caught and was run out of the woods while she heard gunfire behind her.

That stuff is real. She was absolutely engaged. That's pretty hard. Yeah. Which is pretty fucking wild. Like that's really fucking insane. It was for the fucking Confederacy, but you know. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, it sucks that it was for that. But again, you know, she is like she still was a hardened individual at a younger age.

Her brother died in the war and after the war or during the war rather. And she that's when she met and married much like we said last episode, a man by the name Jim Reed. Now, their relationship together, we know they knew each other growing up in Missouri, which was true, and that the Shirley family and the Reads were both, the Reads were also equally as like well off as the Shirley family was. Jim Reid did turn to outlaw activities committing robberies and likely other crimes, but Bell's association with him at this point is way less clear than other stories make it out to be. Either she was somewhat a participant who maybe was a

getaway or had like kind of waiting on the ancillary, or maybe she was potentially coerced into the crimes, but she was by far nowhere near an enthusiastic participant or the mastermind of Jim Reed's crimes. Bell and Jim married in 1866 and they had two kids, Pearl and Eddie, and their marriage placed Bell squarely back in the criminal world because it's true that yes, Jim was doing criminal things. So the Reed's ended up living a fugitive-like existence, likely moving between Missouri and Texas as law enforcement

would come after Jim, and this period would have been marked by constant worry and frequently relocation. But we don't really have any evidence that she was doing anything beyond moving with her criminal husband and maybe helping out occasionally. In 1874, Jim Reed was killed in a shootout with law enforcement out in Texas, which left Belle a widow with her two young kids. Now, myths start to fill in a lot of the blanks, often painting Belle as a daring accomplice of Jim Reid, participating in robberies and sharing a thrilling outlaw lifestyle out of loyalty and love, but the reality was likely far less glamorous and more focused on just

daily survival. Some stories suggest Belle was a driving force behind his activities, but these are very likely exaggerated in her Outlaw connections while true, she wasn't a major figure directing criminal operations at this stage of her life at all. So, you know, what we talked about with her marriage in the last week is kind of really different from that point on. Then she did get married and get to know the next husband from Jim Reid out to the Star Clan. I keep forgetting they call it Clan and no one knows this. I'm sure nobody understands this and why it caused me to stumble.

But if you've ever heard of a young adult book series called Warrior Cats, okay, and there's a clan of cats called Star Clan and it is permanently in my head no matter how bad I don't want. And they're the clan of cats who have died and give wisdom and advice through dreams to the other clans that are. That's pretty coincidental considering the previous set of episodes that we did. Well, I was going to say stupid, but whatever. Well, I was going to say, but you know, whatever.

Well, I was gonna say, I was gonna say like, basically, like, we're like really cool guys. Right. I thought I thought too. That's how I felt when I was describing it. So after the death of Jim Reid, Belle moved into Indian territory now modern day Oklahoma, and she eventually married Sam Starr. Now, some of the stories that were written about, uh, Belle claim that Starr was her maiden name, and it's just not. She didn't marry Sam until as a second husband and we know who her parents were. So she eventually married Sam Star who was also heavily involved in criminal activities and the Star family had a reputation for the crime that they were involved in. Living on their land provided Belle with

connections, kind of a degree of protection within the criminal community and some involvement in a world of outlaws. Bell likely participated in some of the Star Family activities. The primary crimes though were horse theft, harboring fugitives and potentially involvement in bootlegging and other less documented illegal trades. There wasn't a Dallas bank robbery or a wagon robbery or any of that stuff. In fact, Belle only got caught one time

and it was cause she stole a horse. She'd never been arrested after that or before that. She never had to run into the law at any point after that. But she did marry people who had a fuck ton of enemies. And I imagine that may have played into why she was shot at the end of her life, because that part is also true. She did get shot, jumped by somebody while she was alone, and killed and left to die. But back to her with Star, Belle, beyond likely participating in those little things, her connections to crime

didn't fully shield her from the law. And like I said, in 1883, both she and Sam were arrested and convicted of horse theft, serving prison time for their crimes. The one and only time Belle was arrested for anything criminal in her life at all. And in 1886, Sam was in fact killed in a gunfight with a deputy Marshal, once again leaving Belle a widow. Was it by her side? No, it shouldn't. As far as I'm at it, what I read, no, she wasn't actually by his side because she wasn't actually involved in the crime. Like she wasn't there.

While her association with the stars and reputation for crime existed, Belle was no mastermind of a large-scale outlaw operation. The bandit queen title was largely a creation of newspapers, especially the National Police Gazette. And Tails sometimes depict Belle as a cruel and cold-blooded leader. While she likely participated in criminal activities, she probably wasn't the dominant force some stories claim. And legends sometimes paint a picture of loyalty and devotion to Sam Starr.

However, their relationship was most likely a marriage of convenience within the criminal world that they both occupied. Far one from where they're like, dynamite, robbery chemistry together and love of danger and loyalty. And just, it was as convenient and it kept her safe and especially because she was already in the criminal life at that point And she did marry the younger brothers after the younger brother after his or her life with star ended with his death But we know even less about her life with the younger before she was eventually

Ambushed shot and killed on the road. For reason we don't know, but the life of Bell Star in reality was relatively low-key. One that was not probably an enjoyable one when she was married to the criminals having to move over and over again thinking about survival as opposed to settling down. And there was no giant camp where all these bandit big names would come and hang out and tell their stories where she would harbor them as long as they need until they are these like tropes from Bell Star. I don't know if they're I don't know. I don't think they're from Bell Star because Bell Star popped up at a time where Billy the Kid and all those people already

came and went. So but the but I never hear Billy the Kid like at the like big thief gang hideout. You know what I mean? No, but there's a lot of bizarre stories with Billy the Kid like at the like big thief gang hideout. You know what I mean? No, but there's a lot of bizarre stories with Billy the Kid are very super natural, super hero s. That's true. He does become like a superhero. Yeah, he's very. He killed maybe two people potentially three, but his legends pin him at like 10.

We'll do Billy the Kid one. And I think having her force go up her way through all that makes her legend better. You know? Yeah, I agree. She's just like an MCU character in the old West cinematic universe. Yeah. One of the biggest issues she ended up having is after Star's death, the land that she was on, Sam Star was a Native American who was a criminal.

And so when she married him, she was allowed on Native American land and like able to live there and among the people. But when he died and his land was passed along, she was no longer technically like connected to the Native Americans anymore. It's only by marriage. And so they wanted her out. There was police forces on the outside looking for her and she also had people, just like typical criminal rivalries that she was worried about. That was her biggest concern was like, I need to figure out how to stay here or whatever and work my way through. She married the younger brother, which kept her safe because he was a criminal for her. Then she ended up dying shortly thereafter.

But other than that, in the horse thievery, she might have been involved in some robberies. And yeah, she definitely ran with in terms of who she married, Jesse James, in all them. She was among them. She mingled with them in an old, later in her life. But they were not like looking to her as this amazing, genius crime lord that led them to victory over and over and over again. And that, boys, is part two and the final part of the Legend of Bell Star. The reality of who it was and an interesting, again, tale that I had to trace all the way like through this book and through the articles that he uses as amazing reference again. If you want to read it, it's a thick ass, but this is such a good book. It's like 300 pages of him just breaking down things.

Yeah. Thank you, sir, for humanizing this character. Really cool. That was like a fun way of, that was a fun way of framing up that story. I like that. Uh, it's just, it's a nice, I think who she was in reality is way more interesting than the weird, like mythical figure she was. But the crazy, the crazy character kind of makes the real character interesting too

You know exactly interesting because have how totally different that is. Yeah, exactly. It's cool Well, thank you boys and thank you everybody out there and listen to world for joining us on this two-part journey in Bell star We'll be back next week with a brand new episode But we're off to patreon.com slash shilluminati pod right now to go do our mini so we're gonna talk about some weird Wendy's AI I think and some other things. Thank you guys so much. We love you. Goodbye. Incredible. Bye. Bye.

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Jaluminati podcast. It's always I'm one of your hosts, Mike Martin. Join by the... I don't know who they are! There's two! What? Terrence Hill and Bud Spencer. No!

Nio and Trinity. Oh! I don't understand and I probably never will. Let me just tell you right now that there's two... Leon Kennedy and Clare Redfield I'm telling you, I think he literally just looked up famous duos Cheech and Chaw And it's been going through the list ever since I'm trying to dig deep

Which one of you is uh... Dick Powell? Me? Your name's Jesse Cox! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha I want my body back I want to look back on me Hello everybody, welcome back to the Jaluminati podcast. There's always one of your hosts, Mike Martin, joined by Alex and Jesse. Like a shooting star across the sky that's actually a UFO. you