Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 252 - The Travis Walton Abduction

Episode Date: June 1, 2024

Wrapping up our own version of an Alien Trilogy, the boys end it with the supposed real abduction of logger extraordinaire, Travis Walton! MERCH - http://www.theyetee.com/collections/chilluminati Special thanks to our sponsors this episode - All you lovely people at Patreon! HTTP://PATREON.COM/CHILLUMINATIPOD Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - http://www.youtube.com/user/superbeardbros Editor - DeanCutty http://www.twitter.com/deancutty Art Commissioned by - http://www.mollyheadycarroll.com Theme - Matt Proft

Hello everybody and welcome back to the Chaluminati podcast episode 252. As always, I am one of your hosts Mike Martin joined today by the, uh, oh crap, Thelma Todd and Zazu Pitts of LA, Jesse and Alex. What the fuck? What? The fact that he was like, clearly he forgot that he was going to say one and then he looked and then he looked and then the list was at hand is odd to me. It's odd to me. It's not it's not as much as it's a paragraph about a unique pairing that I discovered. Here I'll give you a little bit. Zazu Pitts, Star of the Silent Screen? Yep. From the 1930s while Laurel and Hardy were raging these two were also going at the same time. Howell Roach, who created the two of them, envisioned a team of comedic women. So in 1931, he created the first major female comedy team, Thelma Todd and Zazu Pitts, which is a pretty important part of history.

That is crazy. Yeah. They did 17 short films together and they even managed to snag an appearance on one of Laurel and Hardy's and one of their movies. So there you go. All right. So which one's which? Come on.

I gotta be honest, Zazu Pitts, young Zazu Pitts looks a lot like Elizabeth Olsen. You know what? You're actually not wrong. She has like a little bit Elizabeth Olsen vibes. She does. Most of the photos online are of her much older, but like a younger version, 100.

I have a YouTube video actually you guys can take a look at real quick. Elizabeth Olson, Zosu pits. I think it's just that Elizabeth Olson like kind of wears her like, wears herself like she's from the twenties. Sure. Well, I mean, that's, it's still valid. Yeah. Yeah. I sent you, I just clipped you a video so you can see them young if you'd like. Here's the thing. What was the other woman's name? Thelma Thelma Thompson. A Todd Thelma Todd. Dude, you can go to the Thelma Todd cafe in Pacific coast highway. Uh, palace fair days. What's this? Verde's. Yeah.

We gotta go. We gotta go. This is crazy. Also here's crazy. This looks expensive. Looking at this. Alex is 100% Zazu. Yeah, I'll take that. Yeah. I think you're the blonde bombshell, Jesse. I think you're Thelma. Yeah, I'm the blonde bombshell for sure. Oh yeah. Yeah. Even if we were just talking about the bird from the Lion King. Same. Oh yeah. I would still be Zazu. Yeah. Yeah. And I would be that monkey that knows everything. Oh, what's his name? You know, the monkey Rafiki. Yeah. Rafiki, yeah, Rafiki. Oh my God. I'd paint your faces. Yes. Be like, circle of life, guys. Yeah, it'd be great. Instead of fruit juice, you're using. Paint, red paint.

I put red paint in your mouth and I'm like. Well, I figured it had to come naturally from LA, so it's probably whatever liquid you find in a nearby LA alley. Red paint, probably. Yeah, knowing Los Angeles, absolutely true that there's gonna be red paint probably. Yeah. Knowing Los Angeles, absolutely true that there's going to be red paint, like drying in the alley. I mean knowing LA probably just a bunch of red paint.

Even today coming into the office, there was a dude with a big thing of red paint in an alley painting poles for some reason red. I don't know why, but like there's red paint everywhere in this city. It's weird. I had an image of you both painting poles as in poles and Polish people at the Same time he's just walking up to Polish people just painting them red for no reason I want I mean like hey Polish audience you'll be fine with red paint Just like a guy coming up and just like painting your shirt. I imagine like out of all the colors you'd be like

Yeah, that's pretty cool. Yeah, I'm sure you know the only way you guys can keep living in the best parts of LA It's thanks to everybody over at patreon.com Yeah, we're the best parts of LA is thanks to everybody over at patreon.com. So yeah, we're the best parts baby. Isn't that right? Alex, isn't that right? First of all, I want to say that I definitely do live in the most beautiful, cleanest, best, safest part of LA. That's actually real talk. This is, this is insane, but somehow from when I first moved here,

Alex has kind of lived in the same place the entire time. Yeah, it's absolutely true. And yet somehow the best sprung up around him. It did kind of actually absolutely true. Alex is the same. He has not moved and they've torn down everything and like built a whole new area or it's wild. Yeah. And I've been at Alex's place many a time, I don't think it's the time I've stayed where there was at least one distant screaming man in the middle of the night. He's not wrong. I think the last time was,

I don't think, it probably was a screaming guy, but it was a multi helicopter look nearby. There were helicopters very close, like clearly looking for somebody or something. Meanwhile, my area's got considerably worse. Just think where Alex would live without you. Just think about where Alex could live if he didn't have your support. I could live anywhere, man. I'm unkillable at this point.

I could not. Please God, I could not. You're nigh unkillable. I'm a mutant. I can't be stopped. Yeah. If anything, I'm more jealous of Alex now. Yeah. Can I steal your shill? I didn't mean to. I was trying to segue for you to go ahead and do it. No, I don't really prepare them each time. I just kind of, I just kind of roll, you know what I mean? And everybody knows that they can head over to patreon.com slash chillin out a pod and support us if they want, because you know, they know that we're not in it for the money. We just appreciate the money from people who can give it to us. And we're happy.

The world says we need it in order to live y'all. It's not our, we didn't make this. That's a construct of the man. I'll tell you what, if it wasn't for your support, I never would have made time to read Millennial Hospitality. It never would have happened. I wouldn't have ever. That is true. I would never.

And I'm not, and because of you, I'm reading book two. And he's already puked once so far in the book for no reason. And there may be romantic, like feelings happening between him and the teacher. Nice, this is what I'm here for. This is what I'm telling you, like it gets really weird. It gets so weird.

But anyway, patreon.com slash ShulamnatiPod, I guess is where we end that. Just go check it out. Just give it one look. Don't count it out, you know? You never know what you're gonna get, you know? There's mini-sodes, there's art, there's presale when we do tickets. Anytime merch comes out, you get it. There's ad-free episodes. There's Neil Breen movie watch-alongs.

Yeah. And more. You don't need to advertise that part. That's the part I will always advertise. And more. I only want people who want to dedicate to us fully no half-assed dedications If you can't watch the Neil Breen movies, don't don't go to that tier I don't want you to waste your money or your time But if you can god bless god bless but please boys charmer product Are you excited for today? Cuz I am excited for today today is the end of the alien trilogy that brought us that's 20 episode 250 started

That ends today at 252. Last two episodes were what I would call on the insane side of the UFO lore spectrum, things that are clearly not real but God I wish they were. Do you wish, what do you wish was more real? Project Serpo or Charles Hall and his vomiting encounters with the tall wife. I'm just going to say three words to you and you just take it as my answer. Range for Harry. Yep. I'm with him. I'm with him.

You know what? I guess that's really one argument to that. You're right. Yeah. And somebody made a point that said if we did make a Range for Harry comic and he did sue us, that would imply that Range for Harry was a creation of his own and he'd have to admit that it was fiction. That's so funny. Ooh like that. Yeah, you know what I mean? Checkmate Charles Hall. That's good. Today's not one of those insane style stories. Today is one of the stories that's much

closer to something like Betty and Barney Hill that obviously will leave you up to whether you believe it to be true or not, but there's a lot of corroborating evidence and people, and we'll get into it. Because today we're talking finally about the Travis Walton abduction. This is the abduction that the movie Fire in the Sky from 93, I think? Nice. Oh, good movie, yeah. Yeah, if you've seen Fire in the Sky, basically the alien abduction scene had input from him, but we'll learn as we move forward that that movie is more grounded in some ways

than the actual events that Travis claims. The movie is more grounded than the actual claims. Right, not by an insane amount. I'm talking very specifically the abduction scene and what he says happens and then what the Hollywood decided to do with that and then turn it into their own kind of horror. So this is like your normal Hollywood based on a true story.

Yeah. Except instead of make it more Hollywood, they made it. They were like, no, no, no, no, no, no one's going to believe that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They were like, yeah, that's kind of no, let's go. That's incredible.

Yeah, it's wild. Okay. So you both seen I have not seen fire in the sky, but I have seen the abduction scene. That's it. That's incredible. Yeah, it's why. Okay. So you've both seen it. I have not seen fire in the sky, but I have seen the abduction scene. That's it. That's how on earth I've watched. Do you all the movies go through life being you? I don't, I never understand that part of it. He's like, he's like, I love this movie. And we're like, why, why? Like you, you had any, you could watch any movie and you watch that. But what do you, well, okay.

I mean, but I've had like, there's some good movies that I've seen. That's true. Sure. But you're the guy, you're like alien guy. And you're like, well, I haven't seen this classic alien film. My sources are today are the not fire in the sky actually at all, but the book, the Walton experience, which is his, uh, detailed experience that was released two years after his abduction in 1975. It was released in 1978, along with a myriad of many

interview and some like indie documentaries about this guy. He was on Joe Rogan, you know, like I think a few years back, I think I forget what year it was, but I know he was on it and a few other things. So like, you know, that's where my sources come from. I didn't watch the movie other than the abduction scene. So, and I was told that's the only scene worth watching. Is that true?

Who told you that? Someone on the internet. Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan, yeah, he actually reached out to me and texted me. Thanks, Rogan. Thanks, Rogan, you fucking mook. And then at the end, he just started asking

if I had tried DMT. Oh, he's always asking. One day before I die, I will try it one time. That's my promise. Okay, so with- It's not what I thought you were gonna say. Yeah, that's all I need to say. With that out of the way,

we're gonna start right at the very beginning, starting with the abduction scenario, because his life leading up to this is nothing special. He had a normal life growing up. He was a logger and then just stayed being a logger up until this event. And like that was his profession. He was just out there cutting down trees. And one day on the evening of November 5th, 1975, Travis Walton and his six

colleagues, Mike Rogers, Ken Peterson, John Goulet, Steve Pearce, Alan Dali, and Dwayne Smith were wrapping up after a long day of logging in the Apache-Sitgreaves National Forest near Snowflake, Arizona. Yeah, when I read Snow, I mean it was like, Snowflake out of Arizona is kind of a weird name. Is there snow anywhere in Arizona at all? Am I crazy to think that Arizona doesn't get snow? I thought Arizona didn't get snow like Texas, you know?

Here's what I'll say. I've only been to Phoenix once or twice. Sure. I went to Game On Expo there one time, and it was like 115 degrees. It was like the hottest days ever. We were like literally like hiding in the magic card like hall because it was air conditioned

because holy shit, it was fucking hot outside. And then at night there was like a literal monsoon with droplets of water, the size of like cans of soda. Like I don't even fucking know. I was wearing shoes made of fabric by water balloons. As you step outside, I was wearing shoes made of fabric that faded away by morning. And then in the, in the next day, we got stuck inside of a, uh, a Jimmy John's while there was like a mummy style sandstorm. So I'll say this Arizona is crazy. So I, you know, I wouldn't put it past them. But like with that said, just use logic of what you said, Mathis, which was, he was a logger, which means he's not in the

desert areas of Arizona. He's up in areas where there's definitely some sort of like rock mountain wilderness, right? Yeah, right. Yeah. So there would probably be snow there. My mind, Arizona, just like, I'm like, it's all desert and all hot, which clearly is not. I don't know Arizona as like a map, but I know that there's an area that's desert E

and I know there's an area that definitely has to have some snow because it's up towards mountain things, which would there be trees, right? Yeah, yeah, clearly is a logger. Yeah. So the crew had been up there, working under contract with the United States Forest Service to thin the forest a bit, a task that that involved selectively cutting trees to reduce the risk of wildfires. Basically, that was their job. That's what they were out there to do. Mike Rogers was the crew

leader and had known Travis Walton for a number of years. The two were very close friends and Walton was a trusted member of Roger's team. The other members of the crew were also experienced loggers and they shared a camaraderie forge through long hours of hard physical labor out in the woods. I cannot imagine what a day of logging is actually like, other than miserable for people like me who are pasty white, very little tiny boys, and sweat if they have to move their right arm more than three times.

Very little tiny boys. That's me, I'm a very tiny boy. I don't care how old I am, I'm a tiny boy. Just a very little tiny boy. Very little tiny boy. Do the two of you have any experience with hard manual labor? Because I don't.

Yeah, I did. I was a not really, and then retail for like my whole life. I did stuff before I like did this for sure. Yeah. But like, I didn't start this kind of stuff. That was 29. I did real ass jobs. Look at my soft hands before I, before I did this job.

I worked in a video store for like seven and a half years. I was like, wait, you guys as kids, like you never even mowed lawns. You didn't go around the block and like do people's lawns. That's not real. That's not labor. Construction. Okay. I'm just, I'm just trying to establish a baseline of where we're like, okay. I cleaned my local church when I was 13 and 14 over the summer and I cleaned the

school and shit like that. Yeah. I've done that kind of thing. Okay. So like you, you aren't like little baby boys. You're like, you know, but I've never done anything that requires like lifting a two by four over my shoulders. Your manual tweens. I imagine if I imagine manual labor, I imagine lifting up a two by four big heavy buckets of something and hammer on my hips with a hard hat on. Have you ever worked at like an overnight grocery store stock thing?

We have to pull stuff off of trucks. Yeah, Target. No, but, but I, I stocked. I didn't pull off trucks. Give yourselves a little bit of credit. You're not, you're not out in the woods. You're not over here just like these precious hands. No calluses Shelby. But they are, if you touch my hands, they're like a baby's bottom. They're so, so, all right. So I don't, so I think the answer is no. None of us have done like, logger levels of manual labor.

No, nothing even close, yeah. Yeah, exactly. So they're out there after many, many long days, and on this particular night, again, November 5th, as dusk began to settle over the forest, the men began packing up their equipment and piled into Roger's 1965 International Crew Cab truck to give you a real idea of what they were doing out there, like the scene of that kind of car.

The plan was to head back to Snowflake for rest and then on the route home, you know, they, I mean, after they woke up, they were going to come right back in the morning and get right back to work. That was just the plan. However, the route home took them along a rugged, isolated dirt road that cut through the dense ponderosa pines of the forest. So look up ponderosa pines. That's kind of what they were chopping down. I know exactly what a ponderosa pine is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've eaten at ponderosa. I did too. Are they there and don't exist anymore. I don't think I don't think them and Chi Chi's

they're gone, baby. Those were man for dirt and Dern like my those were cheap eats Ponderosa. That was like you can eat a lot for a lot of Ponderosa. Yeah. Like bonanza. I don't know what a bonanza is. I'm trying to think of the the west coast equivalent will be like, uh, what's that place? Skillet. Sizzler. Sizzler. Yes. Sizzler. Sizzler. Skillet. Skillet. You can tell I've never been there. This is like, I feel like, I feel like we're from alternate universes right now. Yo, there is in kind of an alternate,

I don't want to say fast food, but like casual dining universe on the East coast versus the West coast for sure. That is a hundred percent real. Yeah, so as they were, that's what they were driving through. So they're cutting down was these Ponderosa pines. And as they were driving, the men pretty quickly noticed a strange bright light

that was seemingly filtering through the trees ahead, indicating that it wasn't the moon or the sun brightly shining. It was kind of like slightly below the tree line. And at first they thought, okay, well, maybe it is the sun. It's just got an unusual glow or the, but the light itself was far too intense. And then it began to seem like it was moving. The crew exchanged very puzzled glances, and they kind of like questioned,

should we just go? Should we do like, are we going to get out of here? What does that exactly mean that it was moving? Like it was stationary, and then it started what they describe as hovering, like to the side, like moving over, and then like shifting off back and forth a little bit. Like moving gliding behind the tree line though. Yes.

Behind the tree line, not going above it, staying below it. And then through the tree line, they see the glow begin to move along the ground like wiggling, wiggling back and forth or like a little wiggling or like a little bit, nothing vibrating like an, an intense way just began to move a little bit. Moving through the trees we're talking about maybe, X-Files type shit? Yes, yes, if you think of it, the X-Files like kind of intro

where they like, you know, you see the light through the trees. Yeah. But like they knew it was coming, you could see it shifting and moving. Okay. Yeah, so they noticed this, they get a little confused, but the curiosities peaked. And as they continued down the road, the light grew brighter and more distinct.

They soon realized that it was emanating from a specific point in the forest, rather than being a diffuse glow from the sun or moon, like they tried to rationalize away. This realization made the light even more perplexing and upset a few of them, but not enough for them to not be still curious. So they decided to approach and see what this thing was in the middle of the woods, that only they should be out there There should be the only ones out there chopping down trees The truck crept closer to the source of light and as they emerged from the trees into a small clearing the man saw something

That would change almost all of their lives forever And I say almost almost almost all because there's one individual we'll talk about later whose life didn't change at all Hovering about 15 to 20 feet above the ground was a large glowing object. It was clearly not just like a natural phenomenon because the object was described by everybody who'd seen it as your classic metallic disc shaped craft that was approximately eight feet high,

20 feet in diameter, and emitted a strong, almost golden light glow. But Travis specifically says, it wasn't like a beam coming out of it or like a spotlight. It just seemed to the ship itself at like an eerie, dull, yellow glow. Alongside it, there was a high pitched buzzing sound that accompanied the light.

So yeah, as they saw that, they realized that they realized the size, the, the, the glow, and then they got a little closer and were able to see that the craft seemed to be metallic, but it was unlike any metal that men had seen before it had, and this is going to sound familiar, the smooth polished finish that reflected all light zero creases anywhere where the metal would be no no rivets, no bolts. And the color of the craft remained a pretty much like I said a yellow, but occasionally

would dip the glow would come down and they would see the silver metallic cue of the metal itself, indicating to them that the yellow glow was coming from something else. One of the more notable features, the light submission, also according to them, kind of moved to a blue green a couple of times before going back to that glow as well. The buzzing sound that they talked about was high pitched. So I imagine like that tinnitus or whatever it's called in your ear,

that high pitched like ringing sound, but coming from the ship itself. And some of the men later described the sound as both mechanical and organic. Organical. Whatever that means. Yeah. I don't know what that means, but that's how they... Bionicle.

Yeah, bion... Mechanical and organic is like a machine with a butt. Like a... A machine with a butt? You mean like one of the sexy Transformers? Yeah. Dude, no, I got like... Like a like a machine with the butt you mean like one of the sexy Transformers Yeah, dude, I know I got like it's no it's one of those UFOs, but it's got a Hank Hill ass on the very back of it Why does this sound like Marilyn Manson

Why does this start to sound like Marilyn Manson? The ship itself seemed to show no visible means of propulsion, no engines, no exhaust, no visible wings or rotors. The way it defied gravity just confused them. And when it did move, it did so with an incredible smoothness and precision, almost as if it were gliding through the air rather than like flying in any way. The, there was, Travis decided he was a little curious. He got out of the truck after a few of the guys tried to tell him not to,

and started walking over to the craft to try and see, get a closer look at this thing to see what the fuck it was. And what ended up happening was a beam of light struck out from the actual UFO, hitting Travis, hitting Travis himself. What ended up happening was he got lifted up about, he says 10 to 20 feet, and then thrown back and where he got hit a downed log on the ground and immediately blacked out. And that's on all

of the friends also say they saw that happen as well. It's not just Travis Walton saying it. Now it's at this point that the boys in the truck start freaking out and they don't know what to do. They start, according to them, to start screaming over each other, arguing about whether they need to go out there and get him or not. But the ship started to move and that's when they'd made the decision, the driver said,

he thought Travis looked dead and they were gonna get the fuck out of there and go report it to the authorities. They were looked dead and they were going to get the fuck out of there and go report it to the authorities. They were just like, they didn't want to get anywhere near him. And once the ship started moving, they were like, look, that's it. We're getting the fuck we're getting out of here, which sounds reasonable enough to me. I mean, I'm trying to put myself in the situation of these other guys in this truck who see their friend go out out of curiosity.

They're jiving with them a little bit making jokes, but still they're nervous. He goes out and also it's like, you just get lifted up and hurled back. How do you react? Do you go out like is one of your reactions to jump out? I never want to I never want to hold it against somebody to to like run. You know what I mean? No fight or flight is real. Yeah, I don't want to ever be like you shouldn't run but like I don't know. Who knows in the moment I would do many things.

I depends on what, how many beers I drank that day. I mean, it also has to do with, but it's a day of logging. So no beers. It also has to do with like what the, what the foot, if a light hit Alex, then Alex flew back 50 feet, I would, it was a bluish green light. It wasn't red. Just so you know, it was like the blue, another blue green. Sure. It wasn't like the, the, the eyeball of one of those walkers from more of the worlds or whatever. It was literally like he got black

light, light lifted him. So I'm thinking if I saw one of you two get lifted up and thrown by light, depending on where that light was, that would be what I, if it was still looking, I'd be like, we'll get you and then just hide after the light threw him. It went away and it was just that I would run out. I would be like, yo, grab that man. We need to get the hell out of here. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Travis Walton blacked out at this particular point when he hit the log, he describes later on, cause obviously he lived, um, is that, uh, he remembers feeling like an, an indesistible urge to get out and

just get a closer look at the object, like this just this uncontrollable fascination with it. And that's what drove him to get out of the truck and start walking toward it. But then it fucking threw him. He basically got to, he basically looked at it in awe before it threw him up. So after that happened, the sight of their friend being struck by the beam and thrown through the air, sent the loggers into a panic, believing, some of them believing Walton had actually just been killed in front of them or seriously injured and fearing for their own lives, decided get the fuck out, we're out, and they fled the scene in a blind rush. Rogers floored the gas pedal and the truck sped away from the clearing, bouncing along the rough road as the men grappled with the

shock and terror, kind of yelling over each other. And there, again, their goal is to head back to town and immediate tell the authorities, this isn't something they were gonna keep to themselves, this isn't gonna be like, you know, something that they wait months or days to do, because what ends up happening is, Travis goes missing for a little while, but we'll get to that in a minute.

They drive back home. Yeah, no, this is why it makes, this story is fascinating, not because of this, like, this is a corroborated story by a total of five men here or six men rather of this guy getting thrown, but the things that immediately happened. After that is is what's crazy. So yeah, the Mike Rogers drives off. He's terrified. Other men like Ken Peterson, John Goulet, Steve Pierce, Alan Dallas, and Dwayne Smith were all equally distraught, shouting over one another, they recall, in their attempts to make sense of what just happened. And the group's initial reaction was to get as far away from the site as quickly as possible, driven by what they say is like a primal instinct of fear to just flee, just go. And as the truck went down this dirt path, the initial

surge of adrenaline began to fade, and a profound sense of guilt and responsibility started to take hold. Mike Rogers, in particular, felt a deepening dread over having left his friend behind. And maybe, as Jesse said, once the adrenaline went down, he knew that if Walton was still alive, he was clearly in need of their help. That fear of what might have happened to Walton began to overshadow the fear of the unknown. So Roger sense of duty and confidence returning. He turned the car around despite some people arguing and saying, hell no. He turned the car around to go back to Walton where he had been a long time, many years friend of him as well. This isn't some,

just a guy he's worked with. There's a camaraderie and friendship between them. He felt an obligation to ensure the safety, not only of Walton, but but his team and this was part of it, because you got to keep in mind too, Mike Rogers is a team lead for all these guys. He is the head logger. Right. So despite the terrifying encounter, he knew he couldn't abandon their friend without making sure he was beyond help or try to retrieve his body if he was dead. So he convinced the others to return was no small task. The men were gripped by deep seated fear of whatever the fuck that thing was and what it might do to them if they returned. But Roger's determination and sense

of moral duty began to sway their opinions. He argued that they couldn't leave Walton behind and that they had to face their fears to find out what had happened to them just now. Slowly, the men began to see the necessity of going back and them also driven by kind of like a mix of guilt and loyalty, but reluctant, they accepted their proposal and they all turned and went back for him. So with great reluctance, the crew agreed and the drive back was tense, silent, and each man lost in his own thoughts and fears. The truck's headlights cut through the darkness, illuminating the rough road ahead and casting long eerie shadows among the trees. And the closer they got to the site, the more palpable their fear became.

It's evocative. It was nice. Thank you. As they approached the clearing, the men were on high alert scanning the surroundings for any sign of the craft or Walton, because when they got closer, they noticed the light was gone. There was no light on their way back. The once bright and ominous light now gone and the clearing, uh, completely shrouded in a quiet, unsettling, uh, darkness. on their way back the once bright and ominous light now gone in the clearing Completely shrouded in a quiet unsettling darkness the truck came to a halt and the men hesitated Before stepping out their part hearts pounding whether they're gonna see their friend dead alive if there was this thing was gonna come back

They had no idea say this happens to us Mm-hmm. Do you see us being completely silent on the way? I would be like, what the shit was that? Oh my God, guys, that was crazy. They was on the drive out until the adrenaline settled and then they turn around. Oh no, adrenaline? Nothing. It's like when you do shrooms and you're like, whoo. The entire, my adrenaline would be peaking.

I'd be like, Oh my God. Let's be real. It would have been me that got out. It would have been me that got out. It would have been me that went to the craft and me who got hurled by the light. Oh, nevermind. I take it all back. I would look at Alex and be like, shit, when that was going to happen and to be saw the entire way home. I take it back. Nevermind. Well, he got what he wanted. Yeah.

Okay. All you have to do is say that on the podcast. The cops will never ask. Everybody knows it's what I've wanted. Yeah. We'll just silently drive back from a podcast that night. Like, well, I mean, we're looking for a third host, I guess. Now, you know, aliens are real. Now you know, aliens are real. And that is the important, if anything, I'd be like, I don't know about aliens, but I do know the power of light is a little more dangerous than we thought. Yeah. Yeah. Learn something new today. Uh, so yeah, they got out of the truck and they began to call Walton's name.

Their voices were kind of just like echoing out through an empty, still quiet forest. And they all spread out on a search to look for him, looking for any trace of their friend, where he was thrown, where the log he hit, anywhere on the ground, where Walton may have been struck, but there was no sign of him or the craft. The absence of any evidence added to their bewilderment

and their fear. Literally, there was no evidence the craft was there. There was no landing marks. There was no anything. And Walton was gone. They looked for a long while too. And the reality of Walton's disappearance slowly began to sink in and they had to go back.

They truly needed to start to go get help. The men were left with an overwhelming sense of helplessness and they gathered back at the truck, grappling with the implications of what they had witnessed and the disappearance of their friend. It was clear that whatever just happened was beyond their understanding and control. So after the harrowing encounter in the forest and their unsuccessful search for

Travis Walton, the logging crew returned to Snowflake, Arizona late at night on November 5th, 1975. Their priority was to report the incident and seek help from local authorities. So what ended up happening was the men arrived, kind of giving you like a timeline breakdown. They arrived in Snowflake, Arizona shocked, exhausted. They were disheveled, dirty, visibly shaken. The gravity of the situation was pretty much anyone who saw them, they were like, yeah, they looked fucked up that night. They looked like something had gone down. The first

stop for these guys was the office of sheriff Marlin Jalisepi, which fucking I love that last Marvin Marlin Jalisepi is not a name I would expect to see in snowflake Arizona in the seventies. Jalisepi sounds like a Chicago pizza place. Jilosepey's! Yeah! Home of the deep dish! Jilosepey's! And accompanying him was under-sheriff Kenneth Copeland. As law enforcement officers, they were kind of accustomed to handling a variety of different

cases, but nothing really could prepare them for the story that they were about to hear from these guys. So they got to sit down with the sheriff and described the incident. And Mike Rogers, as the crew leader, took the lead in recounting the events. He described how they had seen a strange craft in the forest, how Travis Walton had approached it, how a beam of light had struck Walton, causing him to be thrown through the air. Rogers explained their initial panic and subsequent decision to return

only to see that Travis was missing. And the other crew members, Ken, John, Steve, Alan, and Dwayne, corroborated Roger's account, each adding their observations and impressions to the encounter. Despite the incredible nature of the story, the consistency and detail in the descriptions lent a degree of credibility to their claims. And one thing I will say right here as well,

is that even to this day, the story has not changed. It's never changed a budge, it's never changed an inch. It's the same story through all of them up to even the present day. Obviously though, Sheriff Jill Lasepeyan is under Sheriff Copeland, but listed with a mix of concern but skepticism. While the story was wild and extraordinary to hear, it made it very difficult for them to believe. But the men's obvious fears, their physical look of distress, and the distress that in their voices and how much of an emergency they were talking about this is,

he at least believed that something traumatic had happened to them, even if what they were describing wasn't exactly what they saw for real. Brain can do funny things. Yeah, maybe like a fluff of gas shot out of the ground and they all went crazy and all hallucinated the same thing. Like the men in black. No, that's not, there wasn't any gas pockets out there. There was a lot of exhaustive investigations that were done.

Gas pockets are not even on the list of things that are a possibility. But there is one man who refuses to believe any of this shit is real, no matter how much he went into it. The man is passed now, but his name was Philip Class, and we'll talk about him toward the end of this,

about some of the absurd things he did, regardless of any evidence that he was given. The officers, noting the emotional state of the crew though, going back, observing their genuine anxiety and the coherence of their narrative, we're like, well, yeah, we got to go look for this guy at least he's clearly not with them. And they're clearly freaking out. So realizing the seriousness of the situation, Jillis, Eppie and Copeland decided to treat the matter with urgency and

they organized a search party to return to the site where Walton had disappeared. The search involved local law enforcement, volunteers from the community and tracking dogs. So this is not like just a couple of people from the cop, this is neighborhoods involved. People are very aware of what's happening. The goal was to find any trace of Walton or evidence that could explain his disappearance because there's a chance he got thrown into the log, got whacked in the head, knocked out, woke up, and then wandered out into the woods not knowing where the hell he was. and that could be his death sentence. The search party worked through the night

and into the following days, covering the area around the clearing where the encounter had taken place. And despite their efforts, they found no signs of Walton, the craft, or any physical evidence to support the crew's story. There was, the dogs couldn't find a scent, there was no trail that he walked away.

Nothing. The lack of evidence deepened the mystery and also raised questions about what the hell fucking happened out there. So one of the things the sheriff decided on was, and this is something that was a little bit more normal for the time, polygraph tests. Now we know scientifically now

that polygraph tests are kind of just garbage. Like it really depends on the person's emotional state and people can get through it and they can also give false positives all the time. There's not much to put into them, but this was not like this is a time where this is a little bit more understood to be more like accepted and like honest. So they to further investigate the entire crews of credibility

on everything. The sheriff arranged for the men to undergo polygraph tests. Each one just for the record, like at the time, early 90s, polygraph was future tech. This is 1970. This is 1975. This is not even the 90s. This is the 70s. But even that, yeah, it's, this was like, this is the equivalent of people discovering thumb prints kind of vibe. The polygraph examiner was a man by the name of Cy Gilson, and he was brought in to conduct these tests. The goal was to determine whether the crew members

were telling the truth, or if they just fabricated the entire story for some reasons that we will talk about later that, if when we talk into like reasons, this might not be real. We'll see. The results of the polygraph tests yielded mixed results. Most of the crew passed their tests, indicating that they believed

that they were telling the truth. However, the results were not conclusive for everyone. Not saying they were lying, they were just inconclusive for some others. And some skeptics use this as an argue that the tests were flawed or that the men had somehow managed to deceive the examiner. Despite the controversy surrounding it at the time, the overall impression was that the men were sincere in their belief that they had witnessed something extraordinary happen to their friend. So, yeah, it kind of was even mixed at the time. Family reactions, of course, were also something that were kind of happening. Meanwhile, Walton's family was plunged into a state of distress and uncertainty. He was gone.

I mean, there seemed to be no evidence as to what happened. They were just desperate for any news about Travis and held on to hope that he would be found alive somewhere. The family cooperated with the authorities and participated in media interviews, pleading for any information that could lead to Walton's safe return. And this was the beginning of the media's attention and the media pouring in to Snowflake, Arizona. The disappearance of Travis Walton under such bizarre, and we're talking within days, we're literally talking day two, the disappearance of Travis Walton under such bizarre, and we're talking within days, we're literally talking day two.

The disappearance of Travis Walton under such bizarre and dramatic circumstances quickly attracted widespread media attention. The case was unique, not just because of the alleged UFO encounter, but also due to the sheer number of eyewitnesses in the prolonged duration of Walton's absence. We have a detailed look at kinda how this went down.

Initially, the immediate aftermath of the incident, it was only local news outlets in Arizona that were reporting on Walton's mysterious appearance. The story of a young logger vanishing after a reported encounter with the UFO was sensational, captured the interest of local reporters. So of course it was all over the news. And newspapers and radio stations in the area covered the initial search efforts, highlighting the fear and confusion of Walton's colleagues and the extensive search operations that were led by local authorities. They really went through so much of the four. They combed through as much as they could. As word spread, national media outlets began to pick up the story as well. We're talking major newspapers,

television networks, radio stations across the US all began reporting on Travis Walton's disappearance. The dramatic nature of the event, coupled with the crew's detailed and consistent descriptions of the craft, what happened to Travis, the light, him being thrown, all of this made for compelling news, and the case quickly became a national sensation. This took off in about three days. It was that fast. That's crazy.

To manage the media, there's like, and you's like in your mind, a town this small is not ready for this kind of media influx to flood the town out of nowhere. So to try and manage the influx of media interest, law enforcement and Walton's families held small press conferences to provide updates on the search and investigation to hopefully keep them off their ass in like, you know Following them around all day long all the time Sheriff Gillespie and under Sheriff Copeland Were often in front of the cameras discussing the details of the ongoing search efforts and the statements given by the logging crew The crew members themselves, especially Mike Rogers were also interviewed extensively both by the press and by investigators Mike Rogers were also interviewed extensively, both by the press and by investigators. So, you know, again, the town is all of a sudden

fucking flooded. The public reaction to all of this was a mix of fascination, intrigue, and skepticism. Many people were captivated by the story, eager for any new developments, because if you take away the UFO aspect of this, a missing persons case, this could, we look, even on some level I'd say true crime, right?

People are fascinated with this stuff. What happened? Where'd you go? Absolutely. This led to widespread speculation and debate about the nature of the incident. Talk shows, newspaper editorials, radio programs featured discussions about UFOs. It's like the missing sub. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Radio programs featured discussions about UFOs, extraterrestrial life, and the possibility that all of this was just a huge hoax. With a national spotlight on them, the logging crew also found themselves under intense scrutiny that none of them took very well. Reporters and skeptics alike were up their ass 24-7, not only trying to interview and talk to them, but they were people going through and ripping apart their backgrounds, personal histories, looking for any inconsistencies of any kind or motives

that might explain a fabricated story, essentially having character assassination pieces written about them because of things that were dug up in the past. Like, there was a small crime that Travis Walton was involved in with, like, forging a payment check like for like ahead of time so we got paid earlier and like that is consistently used to try and discredit him during this time and moving forward for a long

time it doesn't matter like it's insane I don't call the complete nature of the movie but for you Mathis who hasn't seen it what's the name of the movie fire in the sky oh fire in the Sky? Oh, Fire in the Sky, gotcha, sorry. I thought you were talking about different movies entirely. I know I'm saying that this is part of that movie, I believe, I seem to recall that the idea of it's like, what are you hiding? These guys are lying, is the part that isn't the abduction.

They even found out, and this is another part of it, Philip Klass, one of the guys that was really into making sure that everything, like, proving they were lying, you know, they discovered that in their past, they had smoked weed, and maybe had tried speed once or twice, and maybe did acid, but it's not entirely sure. And then he uses that as an excuse to say they were all doing drugs in the woods that night. Like, you know, that's... We'll get to that.

Like, that's the kind of, like, probing levels these guys, out of nowhere, one day their friend goes missing, three days later, everything about their lives is being dug up without their ability to stop it. They're just, their lives are being torn apart. I would hate that. But despite the pressure and despite all of the shit happening, looking for any reason that they might be making a fabricated story. The crew members never broke, never changed their story, stood by the accounts every single time, which only added to the credibility of their story in the eyes to many observers. To many skeptics, it pissed them off though. The case drew the attention of obviously other than the media, UFO enthusiasts around the

country and UFO investigators, both private and from big groups from across the country. Prominent figures in the UFO research community traveled to Snowflake, Arizona to investigate the incident firsthand. We're talking about organizations like MUFON, the Mutual UFO Network, APRO, APRO, which is the Aerial Phenomenon Research Organization.

They became involved, conducting their own inquiries and publicizing their findings. And this added a layer of legitimacy to the case for those who already believed in the possibility that this could be extraterrestrial because on the flip side of things, as we all know, any sort of legitimacy that the public can give to it via media or like, you know, official organizations, government organizations, investigating all news is good news thing. Yeah. People immediately then believe that, okay, it must be real. Like there's that P those people on the UFO side. That's like, well, this clearly makes it real, even though this is probably just par for the course when it comes to. It's just their tendency to be like, that's a cover up. Yeah. Like anything that they

see put in front of them. Right? Yes. Obviously, though, during all of this media stuff, during all of this like background check, we know Travis Walton eventually comes back. How long do you think it is between his disappearance and Travis Walton returning? Oh, the movie you might know actually with a movie in your mind, you actually might know it's the long length, but what's your guess that between this time and that Travis Walton coming back with all the media, the interviews, like what amount of time do you think that would have been? Days.

Two weeks. I honestly don't know. Two weeks and you say days Alex, just like days. Days is right. Days. Travis Walton went missing. Travis Walton returned five days later. Five days.

And that's how insane the media frenzy was from missing to being found. Five days after his mysterious disappearance, Travis Walton reappeared under circumstances that were as strange and baffling as his initial vanishing, because he did not return by walking back into town. On the night of November 10th, 1975, around midnight, a call came through to the home of Grant Neff, which was Walton's brother-in-law.

The caller, who had a, he described as speaking in a weak and disoriented voice, identified himself as Travis Walton. He claimed that he was at a gas station in Heber, Arizona, which was a small town that was about 30 miles from the site of his disappearance. Walton sounded confused and in distress and pleading for somebody to please come pick him up. So yeah, from the point where he was, he just he was 30 miles away at a gas station, which is fucking weird. The immediate reaction obviously is grant Naff along with Walton's older brother

Dwayne, not Dwayne, the guy that was working with him. That's D W A Y N E. His brother is Dwayne D U A N E. So don't get them confused. Yeah, another Dwayne. A lot of Dwayne D-U-A-N-E. So don't get them confused. Just another Dwayne. Yeah, another Dwayne. A lot of Dwayne's in this story. Yeah, there are. They immediately jumped in their car and set out for Heber, Arizona to go get him. Their minds were racing with mix of hope, fear, confusion. They had been enduring days of anxiety and despair of their missing family member who they thought may never see him again after this,

after a few days had passed. The news that he was alive brought a meant relief, but also a flood of questions. But we'll get they get to that later as obviously they first go pick him up at the gas station. When they arrive at the gas station, they found Walton lying on the ground near the phone booth where he had made his call. He was in a severe state of dehydration and appeared to be disoriented. And his clothes were the same ones that he had been wearing on the day of his disappearance five days ago But they were dirty and shown signs of wear Walton's physical condition was alarming

But was like he was alive which was a miracle in itself So he just looks like he's had a rough couple nights Basically, the initial observations was Walton seemed confused and weak and his eyes had said they had a quote unquote haunted look to them as if he had been through a really rough experience. He struggled to piece together his memories. He could only recall fragmented weird images of strange humans in an unfamiliar environment but like he really was kind of talking in a weird like he really couldn't piece together anything. He doesn't really remember what the fuck happened to him. He doesn't even know how long it's been. Duane and Grant helped him into their vehicle,

quickly drove and quickly drove him back to Snowflake, Arizona. And upon returning, Walton was immediately reunited with his family. The emotional reunion was intense with tears of relief and joy mixed with concern for Walton's condition. And the family's priority was to ensure that Walton received immediate medical attention and to try to understand what had happened to him during the five days he was missing. This is one of the things about the story that I like over, I would say, the Betty and Barney Hill. They're doing what I think most normal people would do. You know, like you got the group, they immediately went to the cops, right? They just like, okay, we got to do this. Now he's back. He looks like hell. We got to go to the doctors. We're not going

to let you sit at home and recover. We're going to the doctors because you look like you need to go to the fucking doctors where even the Betty and Barney Hill one was like, they kind of like avoided it. They kind of like didn't really talk about it for a while. Some weird stuff, but they avoided it. I'm glad that like this is an abscredibility to me. They're like, fuck it. No, we need to go. So they did. They took him to the local hospital immediately where he underwent a thorough medical examination. And the results were interesting for a person that was gone for five days. The doctors noted that he was severely dehydrated and malnourished, indicating that he had not

hadn't had any proper food or water for several days. And despite his ordeal, Walton did not have any significant injuries, which added to the mystery of his disappearance and subsequent reappearance as the crew described him being lifted up and thrown against the rock. He didn't have any broken ribs. There was no bruise. There was nothing. There was a small puncture on his skin, but nowhere near like a major artery. We'll get to that in a little bit. The other thing is though, for somebody who was missing for five days while he was malnourished and dehydrated when they tested his urine, I forget the name of the chemical he mentions in the book, but the chemical that is in most people's urine when

the body starts breaking down its own fat and its own tissue for survival like it would have during five days is not present in his urine. So he's like malnourished and underfed, but he's not to the point of starvation, which you would expect somebody to be after five days of living in the woods. So it's like a weird little thing, nothing crazy, but kind of bizarre. Walton was then after the medical examination, all that was done, he was good to go. Walton was then interviewed by who else, but the sheriff, Sheriff Giuseppe and Copland alongside him. His initial statements were fragmented and confused with Walton struggling to crawl really any details at all of his experience.

He mentioned vague images like he did before to his family of these humanoid people, a very clinical environment he mentioned that he thought he looked like a hospital or something, but beyond that, he really had nothing else. And after a few days of being interviewed and getting nothing from him other than this, some other attempts at trying to figure out what happened were taken.

And what else do you expect for things like this other than hypnotic regression is what they went with. Because genuinely he had like couldn't seem to piece together anything. And even when his friends or his loggers like told him about it, didn't spark anything. He could not remember any of that happening. So in an effort to recover more detailed memories, Walton agreed to undergo hypnotic regression therapy with Dr. James Harder, who was a professor at the University of California, Berkeley, and an expert in the UFO phenomenon at the time who conducted this guy is the guy who conducted the sessions.

In under hypnosis, Walton described being aboard an alien spacecraft where he encountered humanoid beings with large eyes and smooth skin, and he recounted being subject to medical examinations. So we're going to go into the detail now of what he recalls through these sessions of his actual detailed account of what happened after he got scooped up. So Walton's conscious memories began with the moment that he was struck by the beam of the light from the craft. He described a feeling of intense numbing force that rendered him unconscious.

When he regained consciousness, he found himself in an unfamiliar environment lying on a very flat surface. He was initially first when he initially first regained consciousness, he found himself lying on that flat surface that was in a dimly lit, sterile environment. He described feeling groggy and disoriented, as if coming out of a deep sleep or being under the influence of an anesthetic. His initial reaction was one of confusion and fear, as he struggled to just comprehend what the hell was happening to him.

Walton quickly noticed three humanoid figures standing near him. These beings were about four to five feet tall with large heads, smooth skin and large almond shaped eyes. The usual suspects. Exactly. The usual suspects. Their appearance was distinctly non-human, which triggered an immediate sense of panic in Walton.

Fight or flight kicked in. The beings appeared to be observing him, adding to his sense of panic in Walton. Fighter flight kicked in. The beings appeared to be observing him, adding to his sense of vulnerability and fear. He describes it like, in one of his interviews that I watched, I could not tell you which one, but he describes it as like, like he said, coming out of anesthetic and having the beings around him,

they almost, they say he seems like they reacted to like him coming out of it, like he wasn't supposed to. They're not, he wasn't sure if he was supposed to be waking up in that moment. Okay. Like he got like a mid-surgery wake up kind of vibe. Mid-surgery waking up, that's exactly what he says, thank you, that was like, I was grasping for the,

for what I was, he was comparing it to, but that's exactly, it feels like he was waking up mid-surgery. So his fight or flight kicked in, as one does, he did, instead of him running away, he lashed out. He described a surge of adrenaline that gave him the strength to push one of the beings away. This was the one on his right hand side.

And this physical reaction was fueled by terror and the urgent need that he described to escape was like a perceived threat. He described almost like an alpha predator. Like being around something that he could not describe was a primal fear that he'd never felt around anybody or anything else in his life. Walton, after pushing the one on his right, leapt off the table and noticed that his clothes were still on but disheveled.

And in a state of panic, he grabbed what he described as a cylindrical object from a nearby shelf not knowing what it was. Lightsaber. That would be fucking sick. He brandished it as a weapon to keep the beings at bay. So he's like, Oh, waving it back and forth. Like he's going to beat, beat them if they get close. Um, the beings did not read the record. Um, for those of you who haven't watched the full music video for the I full 65 song, I'm blue.

I'm pretty sure that is exactly what you're describing. And then they put on a concert and bring peace to the world. Right. But there's a whole fight scene where he's blasted them with lights and stuff. It happens. It's, it's very 2001. I fucking love that music video. It's so good. Uh, the grays did not react aggressively, but rather retreated because, uh, and he even describes it. When he pushes the one on the right, they were way lighter than he expected them to be. Like there was very little resistance given.

So when he was waving the weapon around, they were like, we're out of here, fuck this shit. And they left the room through a door that opened and closed. He said, utter completely silently. There was no like hydraulic noise, it was open and shut. I love they were just like, nope. Yeah, his man is out of control. Walton though, now left alone was like, well, fuck, what am I going to do?

So he decided to cautiously begin following the beings into the narrow hallway that they walked into. What he describes is a narrow curving corridor, and his initial panic began to mix with a desperate need to understand where the fuck he was and how the hell he can get out of here. He was just trying to like logically figure out a way out. The corridor was dimly lit in the walls, floor and ceiling, like we've heard many a time, appeared smooth and seamless,

giving it an otherworldly and he again goes on to describe what he considers an almost organic feel. It's just a smooth thing of metal. There is no like distinction between it and the ceiling. The lack of visible joints or seams in the construction of the corridor added to Walton says it's surreal nature. The lighting seemed to emanate from the wall itself. There was no lights giving off the light. The walls just gave off a low light, casting a diffuse glow that made it difficult to determine the source of whatever this illumination was coming

from. And as Walton moved through the corridor, he encountered another figure that looked distinctly human. This individual was tall, with well-defined features, and wearing a tight-fitting blue shirt. The presence of a human-like figure gave Walton a glimmer of hope and relief as he assumed this person was fucking another human being and has walked over to it.

But who else is it but the tall white Nordics baby? Despite Walton's attempt to communicate with what he thought was a human, the figure didn't speak. Instead, the figure kind of gestured for Walton to follow, leading him through the craft. So Walton, still holding the cylindrical object defensively, decided to comply, hoping that this figure could at least lead him to safety.

The human-like figure led Walton into a larger room, which Walton later described as a control room or cockpit of some kind. This room was filled with various instruments and displays that he just did not understand, including screens and panels emitting soft colored lights. And the environment was highly advanced, unlike anything he had seen before.

Like I said, he couldn't even begin to describe how any of this was used. In the center of the room was a chair, which the human-like figure gestured for Walton to sit in. The chair appeared to be a part of a control console surrounded by various panels and controls. Once Walton was seated in the chair, the human-like figure placed a transparent mask

over his face. Walton described feeling an immediate sense of calm and drowsiness as if the mask was suddenly administering a sedative. They were like, give the guy a laugh and go like, that's just a guy that's like, here, sit here, not saying a word, just gesturing, puts the mask on him and Walton does it

and he's just like, urr, starts to pass out. Walton's memories of what happened next were fragmented and dreamlike. He had vague impressions of being examined by the beings and seeing other parts of the crafts. These memories included sensations of floating, like he was being carried out of there in some way, and a sense of being observed,

but the details for him were hazy and really just difficult to recall. The next clear memory Walton was able to have was him waking up on the side of the road near Heber, Arizona, that it was nighttime. He was lying on the ground, disoriented and confused. And he saw a bright light in the sky, which quickly disappeared, leading him to believe he had been left there by the craft. So yeah, they like, get that's, that's the, so how, I just been a while since I've seen that scene. I don't know if it's fresh for you. How similar is that to the scene? Does he

come up to like a human and like does the human walk them around? I don't like should I say human but Nordic? I don't remember that at all. And I feel like that might be one of the things they left out. I don't think that's in the movie. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I just yeah, that's one of the things that Hollywood was like this is too like to be clear. The movie is not like a step by step of what happened to him, it's just like a movie. Yeah, I just couldn't remember there being like a human-like creature. So now that he was realizing that he was alone,

but in a familiar area, that's when he stumbled over to the nearest phone booth and made the call to his brother-in-law, Grant. And that's when they kind of, you know, we fast forward now and catch up to present day. So that is after some hypnotic regressions, that's what ended up happening. And that's what came forward in terms of like,

what he remembers, which is fascinating. It's not at all like the Betty and Barney Hill encounter because the Betty and Barney Hill encounter only had the grays and they only dealt with like, they were like very curious with Betty's zipper in her dress and all that stuff. They had no human like figure. And this story is interesting in how they was treated because it's,

it's nothing like the Grays have ever really treated anybody else that we've had abduction stories before where they were just like, Oh, we're out of here. This guy's violent fucking walking away. Uh, it's almost like they weren't paid enough for this to deal with it. And a lot of it's kind of how I pictured it. I love that bit. Yeah. That's literally like how it feels. So it's, it's very different than the grays are typically described, which is fascinating.

They live paycheck to paycheck. You think capitalism is still the most powerful form of government out there or like, yeah, I guess you call it cover. I mean, if the tall whites are in charge, no, it is. Yeah, it's so like, I hope not. I hope not. I hope they all don't have to make pay and they all get to live a comfortable life.

No, I'm assuming there's no pay involved in alien abductions. Yeah, I imagine there's not. So from this point on, years are spent trying to basically figure out how he's lying, where the skeptics are trying to figure this out. Because from here on him and every single one of his logger companions, their stories never change. They don't go out of their way really to do anything until the 1993 movie where they approached him, you know, about, it's not like he went off to sell the movie,

but also, like if this happened to me and then almost 20 years later, they're like, hey, we want to pay you for that story. I'd be like, hell yeah, I'll take that. My dream come true, yeah. Yeah, that's a fucking dream come true. But yeah, the stories always remain consistent. Accounts were given by Log and Crewman and him.

They've never really changed. However, there was a point in time where Mike Rogers and Travis Walton did have a bit of a butting of heads where Mike Rogers takes back some of the claims of the UFO. We'll talk about it right now. So Travis Walton and Mike Rogers takes back some of the claims of the UFO. We'll talk about it right now. So Travis Walton and Mike Rogers were not just colleagues, obviously, they were friends to remind you. Rogers was a crew leader, knew Walton for many years.

He was the one that brought Walton onto the logging team in the first place. Rogers and Walton had a good professional relationship up to this point as well. There was never any problems between the two of them in terms of payment or job. It was all clean and they were very, very friendly. At times at the time of the incident, Rogers crew was behind schedule on their locking contract for the United States

Forest Service. This delay put them under significant financial pressure. It's good to have that in mind moving forward as well. And the stress of the looming deadline added tension to the working environment and the financial implications of not meeting the contract's requirements were severe, potentially impacting the livelihoods of the entire crew involved, which is why they were working late into the night. To give context as to why they were consistently working really late into the night, they were just trying to keep up with the contracts so they could fucking get paid and live their lives. In the immediate aftermath,

Rogers and Walton presented a unified front. They consistently supported each other's accounts of the encounter with the UFO and his abduction. This solidarity was crucial in maintaining the credibility of their stories moving for the decades on. The incident brought both men and considerable media attention, which they navigated the best they could together.

The story became a national sensation with both Walt and Rogers appearing in new verse interviews and documentaries. Like I just said, I watched a lot of those. One significant source of tension began to arise from the financial aspects of their story's media coverage. Obviously, as it started catching fire, especially in the 80s and 90s, they began to see book deals, movie rights, and other media engagements that brought in substantial income. Disputes emerged over the distribution rights of The Prophets, Walton's book, The Walton Experience, which was written two years after 1978. The Walton Experience is such a bad name for that book. I know, I hate it. It's such a bad name. Oh my God. It's a good, it's a worthwhile book to read. In the subsequent movie,

Fire in the Sky from 93, generated a decent amount of revenue leading to disagreements over how the proceeds should be divided. Rogers felt that he was not receiving a fair share of the profits, considering his role in the story of being the lead of the logger team going back and making the decision to turn around and all that stuff. The financial disagreements strained their friendship

and professional relationship, which can happen to any, like, that's like, I feel this is a rule as old as time in any industry, no matter what the job is. You work with your best friend, there's not, there's non-zero chance it ends up ruining the friendship at some point. Over the years, there have been slight variations in the details provided by Walton and Rogers in their public statements, but so minimal that it never

changes any of the, yeah. Like, it's not like little tiny things that literally were not brought up in any of the shit that I watched or read that were even bothered. Only that like, there was a couple moments where they disputed, and a lot of that, people think is because of the media, the financial stuff.

Rogers just basically sometimes felt like he was sidelined or overshadowed by Walton and the media. And to that I kind of get though, like Walton was the guy who went missing. You know, he's the guy that like had to deal with whatever the fuck happened to him. Kind of about him for the most part. In more recent years, we're talking like 2020, 2021. There was some disagreements between Walton and Robert Rogers

that played out a little more publicly, particularly on social media and interviews. The public spats have drawn attention and speculation, sometimes overshadowing the original incident, originally just became about their viewed. Rogers occasionally expressed frustration and dissatisfaction with Walton in interviews, citing the financial disputes again, for Rogers was all about the money. It was all about the money that he wasn't getting enough of that he believed he deserved more of. Despite the

tensions, though,, there were effort, there have been efforts to reconcile and resolve the issues. Now, during this time, during their, uh, during their dispute, Mike Rogers very briefly goes on to say, uh, in a public post on Facebook that he no longer wishes to be associated with Walton or any of the Walton abduction stories and that like he, he said, it was a hoax orchestrated by all six of them. After about six months or so, like,

they were some sort of, they like, talked to each other essentially and got over it. And then he then reneged his renege. Like, he was like, he took it back. He was like, JK, I wasn't lying in the end. Yeah, like, yeah. Rogers was like the one of the six of them that people latch onto to say,

see, it was all a hoax because of all of this. And you can completely understand that angle. It's not impossible. I'm not saying it's impossible. Right, sure. It's really fucking weird. Because a few of the other loggers became a non, like disappeared.

They did not, they didn't want media. They moved out of the town. They disconnected from media. Anytime they were approached about it, they held to their story, but they just want to be left alone. And that, you know, remains true. So like, it's not like everybody was like trying

to make money off this. A lot of people were just hiding after it. Like, don't fucking bother me. The media up their ass ruined them. Then, now we come up to my favorite. Philip J. Klass. Again, he's no longer with us, RIP. But this man had a hard on for anything UFOs at all. He

was the man who came up with the ball lightning excuse that he gave to Stan Friedman, who was during during Project Blue Book. That's the man he got the ball lightning excuse from. Who is this guy? Philip Class was an aviation journalist and noted UFO skeptic. He played a significant role in challenging the credibility of not only Travis Walton abduction case, but the Barney Hill case among a bunch of other ones. He's known for his rigorous, but often controversial investigations.

And I say controversial in quotes here that you can't see it because the man borderline harassed people that did not agree with them. If they pushed back in any way, he would relentlessly like bother not only them, but he would look into people and their family, their jobs, their childhood, anything they could have, anything they could have been.

He'd like really, really crossed a lot of what I would consider lines with dealing with them. He was a senior editor for Aviation Week in Space Technology, a respected publication in the aerospace industry. And his background in aviation and engineering gave him a technical perspective on UFO sightings and reports to give you like an idea of his background.

Class one of the most prominent UFO skeptics authoring several books and numerous articles debunking UFO claims. He was a founding member of the Committee of Skeptical Inquiry, the CSI, an organization dedicated to promoting scientific skepticism, which is not a bad idea as a whole, just how you do it. When the Travis Walton abduction story gained national attention,

Klaas immediately jumped on and was like, this is a hoax. He believed that financial and publicity motives might be behind the extraordinary claims that made by Walton and his colleagues. So he conducted a thorough investigation, reviewing all available evidence, public publicity motives might be behind the extraordinary claims that made by Walton and his colleagues. So he conducted a thorough investigation reviewing all available evidence, interviewing involved parties and analyzing inconsistencies and motivations, not only in the story, but in their past and what they did again, as digging up their drug uses or what have you of smoking weed and stuff.

So we already know that there was logging contract issues as what he clings on to as their financial motive. and it makes sense. They're all loggers needing to make this contract. So now he was looking for where could this benefit them immediately in the monetary place? And that came in the form of the National Enquirer. At this time, the National Enquirer was actually offering a pretty significant cash prize for a really good UFO story for their magazine. So, Class assumed that this suggested

that this was the reason that they started creating this hoax and the prospect of winning this reward could have provided a strong financial incentive for Walton and the crew to fabricate the abduction story. But to be clear, the financial reward was not life-changing money, not only just for one person, for Walton and the crew to fabricate the abduction story. But to be clear, the financial reward was not life changing money, not only just for one person,

but divided between six people. This wasn't gonna be money that was gonna like set them for life. It was like in the thousands. That would have helped certainly, but it wouldn't have done anything. It's certainly a motive though. And I'm not saying it's impossible.

Again, it's just got to take the context of how big the reward was and whatnot. While most of the crew passed their initial polygraph test, Class raised questions about their reliability. He noted that polygraph results can be influenced by a variety of various factors, which he's right about, including the skill of the examiner and the psychological state of the subjects. Class emphasized the mixed results of subsequent polygraph tests. He basically says you can't trust the polygraph tests. Also the mixed result of the polygraph tests. He basically says you can't trust the polygraph tests,

also the mixed result of the polygraph test proves they're all lying. So he kind of does both ways where he's like, you can't trust it. But the fact that they're non-conclusive also means that they're like, it's just very, it's the logic doesn't work out. He argued that the inconclusive and contradictory results can cast out over the entire credibility of their stories totally. He scrutinized the testimonies of the crew members, pointing out minor inconsistencies that can be chalked up to the fact that they were all, their memories are just like, you know, they're not perfect. They're little tiny details of like which way they drove, what like, when they

went back, how long they drove until they turned around. Those are the kinds of inconsistencies class was bringing out. He argued that these discrepancies suggested that the story might have been fabricated or at least exaggerated. We're talking another one that he brings up too that I remember reading in the book was, he brings up basically one of the lager story says he agreed to go back first before anybody else. And then another lager said, no, he was the one that agreed first to Mike Rogers to go back to save Walton. That's like to him is like the smoking gun evidence that they're lying because they couldn't remember who agreed with Mike Rogers first. It's fucking weird. Klaas noted that the complete absence of physical evidence supporting the abduction claim that there

was no trace of UFOs or any anomalous physical effects were found at the site where Walton disappeared, which again is all true. He pointed out the medical examination of Walton after his return did not reveal any signs of invasive procedures that Walton described. The lack of physical trauma or marks was inconsistent with Walton's detailed accounts of his experiences, which again is also true. It's one of the weirder things that like there's no physical evidence of the things that happened to him, but I'm going to get back to that as we wrap up. But Klaas was also known for his aggressive and sometimes controversial investigative tactics. He often used freedom of information requests and direct interviews to gather information,

which sometimes led to confrontational interactions with some of his subjects. He didn't shy away from accusing UFO claimants of dishonesty. Every UFO person was basically a con man to him. In the case of Travis Walton, he suggested that the entire event was entirely orchestrated strictly for financial gain and publicity. case of Travis Walton, he suggested that the entire event was entirely orchestrated strictly for financial gain and publicity. A class published several articles and sections in his books, critically examining the Walton case.

He outlined his arguments and presented the evidence he believed undermined the credibility of the induction. And basically, he goes on to say like them writing a book, them having a movie. That's all reasons that you shouldn't believe it. All while he's writing his own book and selling his own book on the Walton case and stuff. So I'm just like, all right, well, like, why don't you make all this free then? Instead of us having to buy your book, if this is all important and you're a journalist, then like publish it in a paper for us all to read. How much did it cost?

$30 for a paperback. And I can see seven, one, two, three, four, five, six, six books right now, just from him, all from different years and stuff. So he's selling books, you know, and it's like the cover is a UFO with two alien fingers touching. And it just says bringing UFOs down to earth. You know, it's marketed at the UFO person. But it's also a skeptic book. So it's, you know, it's, I'm like, I don't know. I don't know. I get it. I get it. You got to make your money. I get it. But if you're going got to make your money. I get it. But if you're going to accuse people of doing the very same thing you're doing while you're also a journalist for a well-respected publication stuff, I'm

like, well, where's the weirdness? Am I wrong? Am I like, am I cross? Am I like trying to justify Travis too much? You always try to justify the person who gets abducted by aliens so much. I know if I'm asking, but here's the thing. Cause I'm on their side. You can't deny that there's always a little bit of, look at this person who's terrible, but I might be doing the exact same thing, but I'm doing it for the good reasons.

So it's fine if I do it. Yeah. Because a lot of that when it comes to skepticism world too, because it's a lot of like, that person's terrible. Watch my stuff instead, or, you know, that person's terrible, read my book instead. You know, I think it is good to ask questions and question yourself constantly,

but I don't think you need to like ask yourself if you're crazy also, because now you're in a loop. Yeah, yeah, I'll do it all the time. All the time, I'm like, am I fucking insane for like this? For believing it? I mean, yes. Yeah, fair. but not for liking There's another you can I don't have it here, but there's an in like one of the earliest interviews had John class

and Mike Rogers and Travis Walton on with a Mediator and I can't remember it was it CNN. I can't remember but basically very calmly They were talking to him and he was, uh, Roger was, uh, Rogers was laying out very patiently his issues with class and like the character assassination, hit attempts and like digging up his past and stuff. And he couldn't even finish the sentence before class interrupted him and started swearing at him and telling him that he's a con man and all this shit. Good Lord, dude, like calm down. It's, it's kind of the kind of man he was.

And so like, I encourage you to, I mean, it'd be like that, dude, you got it. I encourage people to go listen to the interviews if you want to like, just hear what it was like, uh, to it'd be like that, dude. You gotta, I encourage people to go listen to the interviews if you want to like just hear what it was like to kind of try and debate with him. Cause he often would do media debates with these people who believe that they were abducted by UFOs. So, you know, he had aggressive tactics, public debates were his big thing.

Several individuals in the UFO community also claimed that class harassed them through persistent questioning, public denouncement, attempts to discredit them. The individuals felt that class crossed the line from skeptical investigation to just personal attacks. And some UFO researchers and witnesses reported, reportedly receiving numerous phone calls, letters and requests for information from class, which they perceived as excessive and intrusive. They felt that class intent was not just to seek for the truth, but to immediate intimidate and discredit them personally. That's what I mean. Like he, uh, he would like, uh, go against people

who disagreed with him. He'd like bring, like call them, chain dial them and that kind of thing. Um, he's had a run with Stanton Friedman in the past, who was the nuclear physicist that we are. Oh geez. I love Stanton Friedman. Um, he's, he was a prominent UFO researcher and was one of class's most well-known adversaries. The two frequently clashed in public debates and through their writings. Friedman accused class of using underhanded tactics to undermine his credibility, including misrepresenting facts and making unfounded accusations, which is those debates are so good to watch. The class, Stan Friedman debates, just go watch one. They're so good. The debates between the two of them were often

very heated. Obviously, class was usually the one that was aggressively challenging debates, just go watch one. They're so good. The debates between the two of them were often very heated. Obviously, class was usually the one that was aggressively challenging Friedman's claims and Friedman calmly defending the legitimacy of his research. These interactions were sometimes viewed as hostile by people just watching. It was like personal jazz started getting exchanged often. In the case of the Travis Walton abduction, some of the crew members felt that class's investigative tactics were overly aggressive, very similarly, for the same exact reasons as mentioned above. And Class has publicly accused Walton and his crew

of fabricating the abduction story for financial gain and publicity, as we've talked about and said many, many, many times. The last bit I want to talk about before we go away, is this physical or lack of physical evidence of him having any, like, wounds on him in any way? And Walton has his own idea of why that might be the case, but he's openly said he doesn't know for sure and it's weird even him. He believes he wasn't supposed to be abducted. What he believes is that this UFO was out there and the UFO didn't know that they were out there because it didn't like come see them. And they approached the UFO without the UFO realizing,

and it's like, you know, Oh God, wildlife is approaching us. And Travis walked, walked up to it and whether accidentally or just to keep it away, it was like a, they threw him and they injured him and they were like, Oh shit, we didn't mean to injure him. And so they took him on to heal, like to maybe heal him and give him medical, which is why he was gone for five days. And then he freaked out on them. But he doesn't, but he doesn't remember them. Like he only freaked out when he woke up and he only remembers waking up.

And like he said, he, and he himself has said in interviews, he has no evidence that that's the case. He just, he's trying to logically figure out why he didn't come back with physical wounds. But the long and short of it is even up to today, all of the loggers when asked hold to their story, Travis Walton is, none of the story has changed in IOTA since then. Um, and we are left with this as it is right now with both the skeptics having really kind of presented their case and Walton and crew presenting theirs.

And it's going to be one of those things that I mean, we'll probably never. I mean, unless this disclosure does happen. I don't know. We'll probably never know. I am because I am who I am. This is one of the most believable, if not one of the more believable ones out there. And I am inclined to think that like something fucking weird happened if they all saw something. But there is financial motive there.

And that's something that you can't ignore. It doesn't. Yeah, it doesn't feel fake. Yeah, it doesn't. Yeah. It doesn't feel fake. Yeah. It doesn't feel obviously, it doesn't feel like project Serbo. I mean, if you remove aliens from the situation, it does open up a lot of like they were out in the woods and you know, they were goofing and something happened and they panicked and they went back and then their friends showed up again and they're like,

Oh, we need to get our story straight on this. And they all, you know, like there's a lot of ways that this could just be people being stupid, bad liars, whatever. Yeah. But also there's a weird like fun alien bit to it. So I don't know. It does follow in. It falls into that kind of amorphous will never know really what happened. And even if someone says, yeah, no, it was all lie. It will absolutely still exist in the ethos of alien abductions. Like it's not going away. I mean, if project Serpo can last this sure as fuck will long last longer and then project Serpo, but boys that brings us to the end two of our little alien a trilogy damn

For the past three weeks what a chill little what a chill what a chillogy chillogy Should we watch this for rotten popcorn? I feel like we we should be doing that You want this to be the movie the your your movie? I wouldn't hate to watch it next Jesse you get to choose Let's do it. Don't let's do it We'll schedule something then in the now after this and we'll figure out. We'll get that up to Chiluminati's Patreon in the next couple of weeks. At least it was made by a motion picture studio. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, Breen is his own motion picture studio. What is a studio or a motion picture anyway? He has a camera, a green screen and an editor. Yeah, if you recorded it, it was motion picture and a studio. That's the name of a program done Okay, thank you guys so much for listening. We'll be back next week with another special guest episode We want to spoil who it is Jesse. No, no, no, let's just say for all my debunkers out there I have got a treat for you. One of my favorites

I can't believe who we're suckering into going on to this show these days. It's crazy to me Thank you guys so much for your support without your support We wouldn't be able to pull these people on and force them to listen to our insanity You're gonna head over to patreon.com right now to do a mini. So thank you guys so much. We appreciate you We love you. Goodbye. Bye. Hello everybody. Welcome back to the Jaluma naughty podcast It's always I'm one of your hosts Mike Martin joined by the I As always, I'm one of your hosts, Mike Martin. Joined by the... I don't know who they are.

There's two... What? Terrence Hill and Bud Spencer. No! Neo and Trinity. No! I don't understand, and I probably never will. Let me just tell you right now that there's two...

Leon Kennedy and Claire Redfield. I'm telling you, I think there's two... Leon Kennedy and Claire Redfield. I'm telling you, I think he literally just looked up famous duos. Cheech and Chow. And this has been going through the list ever since. I'm trying to dig deep. Which one of you is Dick Powell? Me?

Your name's Jesse Cox! is Dick Powell. Me? Your name's Jesse Cox! I want my monologue I want your monologue I want your monologue Hello everybody, welcome back to the Jaluminati Podcast. As always I'm one of your hosts, Mike Marhen, joined by Alex and Jesse. Like a shooting star across the sky that's actually a UFO. Ready to pop the question? The jewelers at BlueNile.com have got sparkle down to a science, with beautiful lab-grown diamonds worthy of your most brilliant moments.

Their lab-grown diamonds are independently graded and guaranteed identical to natural diamonds. And they're ready to ship to your door. Go to BlueNile.com and use promo code WELCOME to get $50 off your purchase of $500 or more. That's code WELCOME at BlueNile.com for $50 off. BlueNile.com.