Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 259 - Albert Fish Part 1 - Stranger Danger

Episode Date: August 4, 2024

This week Mike, Jesse and Alex begin their multi-part deep dive into one of the weirdest and most vile men to have ever existed, Albert Fish. Buck Buck, How Many Hands Up? MERCH - http://www.theyetee.com/collections/chilluminati Special thanks to our sponsors this episode - All you lovely people at Patreon! HTTP://PATREON.COM/CHILLUMINATIPOD Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - http://www.youtube.com/user/superbeardbros Editor - DeanCutty http://www.twitter.com/deancutty Art Commissioned by - http://www.mollyheadycarroll.com

Hello everybody and welcome back to the Chiluminati Podcast episode 259. As always, I am one of your hosts, Mike Martin, joined by the Bob Hoskins and Denzel Washington from the movie Heart Condition of LA. What in the world? Whoa, Bob Hoskins. Okay. Denzel Washington, they're the main two buddy comedy, 1990, buddy comedy, 1990 specifically from heart condition. We're,

we're those guys. You're specifically the characters, Napoleon stone and Jack Moon. All right. Time out. Whoa. Time out. Time out. Alex is Bob Hoskins. Napoleon clarification on who was who? No, I was going to ask for clarification on who was who. No, I was going to ask Alex who he thought was you. I tried to be good and answer it before. And that's what I'm here for. I want you to know I was with you both.

I already knew it was going to happen. I got it right. It's all good. You know, it all happened in my mind, but like I understood the bit. Jesse Mathis, I knew you were going to say the names of the guys and I guessed before you said it. And I, okay. Before D look up, who do you think, what do you think the characters are? I don't, I don't even care at this point. What's the point? Heart condition life is pain. I think they are, I think they're EMTs.

I think they're EMTs. All right. So who's who then? I want you to know. I want to hear who's who before I tell you the, you know, you already said Hoskins is which one of you is which one? Oh, uh, who's Bob Hoskins? Who's Denzel? Okay. Maybe they switch. Maybe they switch. Maybe they switch hearts. Uh, and I'm, uh, I'm Hoskins with Denzel's heart and you're, uh, yeah, no, that's true. Denzel with Hoskins. Oh, I'm the demo of this podcast for sure. So that means Alex is, um, a racist cop who is working with the ghost of a dead lawyer to, uh, work out a crime about who shot him. So I'm the ghost.

You're the ghost. You're, you're Denzel Washington. You're the ghost and you're a racist. Denzel's the ghost. And you're the, you're the racist, Bob Hoskins, the racist, Bob Hoskins is definitely not true. You know what I mean? The racist character that Bob, no, no, no, no, no. You know what I mean? The racist character that Bob Hoskins plays.

No, no, no, no, no. You said what you said. No, no, I take it back. I take it back. Oh, welcome to the podcast. Real talk though. Jesse was joking about being the Denzel of the podcast. Which one of us says my man the most? Definitely Jesse for real. One thousand and one. It falls on the ears. Familiar.

On a familiar sound, Dustin, does it fall on thine ears? Dust it. It's true, it's true. Verily. Verily? Quite. Okay, for $10,000 a month, we could do an episode in Old English.

I mean, we could. I would do it. Inaccurate Old English or like offense? I can get it to be. Like, do you think that if there were people who, like the Old English, do you think if the Old English or like offense? Like I can get it to be like, do you think that if there were people who like the old English, do you think if the old English was still around and they heard us doing our fake old English, that they'd be mad at us? And I think this is middle English that we're talking

about, right? Cause old English is Canterbury tales kind of English. Yeah. I don't think that's old English. Don't sound English. I don't think that's no, it sounds like totally different. You're right. You're right. More can't talk of middle English. Yeah. I was talking about Canterbury tales tales Shakespeare kind of style of English. What about Middle-earth?

Lish I don't know how we would do that. We just one of us takes orcish one of us takes elvin one takes on a breathy Yeah Yeah, that's just the whole, whole pod case. You shall not pass. I'll do it. Yeah. I'm down. The Balrog of LA, that's me. That's me trying to hand off the segue to Patreon.

If you want me to whip your ass all the way down below the earth and onto the top of a mountain. You might regret saying that actually, you know, I'm gonna stop you right there You might regret saying that for wildly different reasons by the end of this episode. What does that mean? Oh, uh Guys tell you what head over to the patreon. It's great We'd like to we'd like to say that we're independent of any sort of algorithm Because we can count on the people who really care about what they're listening to, to come and support us if they can.

And it's great. And you get a bunch of free stuff, including ad free episodes. You get a mini soda every episode, get art from Mel. It looks fucking awesome. It looks like punk show posters. It looks awesome. Every time, uh, rotten popcorn is a show that we do. That's a podcast that's about watching movies that are.

It's like outsider art. It's like a film festival that's curated by somebody who doesn't understand really why people go to the movies. In a general sense, I feel like there's a general lack of what it is about movies that brings people to the, to the theater. That's kind of the vibe of rotten popcorn and, um, half the movies that are on there, I've never seen before. And, uh, after we shouldn't be seen, yeah, half the movies shouldn't even be screened at any film festival, much less watched live reacted to on a podcast, but you can go get episodes of them and a bunch of other stuff and if you pay

$10,000 will do an episode in the style of the Canterbury Tales I That's what's like junior high school knowledge that I haven't accessed in over 20 years I don't know about time cuz here comes that big bucks people are gonna do it, you know Middle English tutorial who who wrote it who wrote what the Canter English tutorial. Who, who wrote it? Who wrote what? The Canterbury Tales? Yeah. Who do you think it is?

I could not tell you. I come on. It was, it was a mix of stories by Michael Mathis. Yeah. Yeah. It was the dude from night's tale. Come on. Everyone knows Keith ledger.

No, no, I'm pretty sure I know which one is which, but I always mix these two guys up. It's the dude from night's tale. You know, I can't remember if it's Milton or Chaucer who wrote the Canterbury tales. Like the guy who's yeah, I think it might be Chaucer. I think it's Chaucer who wrote the Canterbury tales. And I think Milton wrote it is it is Jeffrey Chaucer, but more importantly, it's actually the guy from night's tail, Paul Bettany, Paul, but he's the actual real author, the poet, the hype man. Yeah. That movie is a movie I've seen more than 10 times in my life.

It's insane. It brought you to that graveyard in the middle of the night with the Cape on with your D and D books that night. Yeah. The same, the same spirit, the same drums that beat, that brought you to the night's tail over and over again, brought you right to the heart of that graveyard with all your spell books. Getting patted down by the cops.

Is that in a way you're kind of like punk for that? Do you ever think about that? In a way. Yeah, in a way, you kind of are punk for that. I don't want clarification as what way and how, what way, but I'll just think it. It's earnest. It's earnest. I'll take it.

I'm earnestly punk. Fair enough. So, boys, it's time for another multi-parter. Last time we did some true crime, we're in the old west and we're going to be staying in that time frame, but right at the end of it, more of the 1870s, moving into the early 1900s, a particular individual that has come up a few times on our reddits and a few other in our discord, kind of what I would consider the first real step into like a deeper level of true crime. Because today we're talking about none other than the infamous Albert Fish. Do you know who Albert Fish is? I'm at a zero. I'm at a zero on Albert Fish. Albert Fish? Fantastic. So we're going into this. This is a truly deranged man Albert fish was known unlike the other guys that we've been talking about

Closest we could compare him to into somebody that we've covered in the past would be like a domer I think in terms of like Motivation, but well, you'll see what I mean. Like it's it's an ask. Can I make a request? Yes. Can you say once you've heard of Albert Fish, he makes Jeffrey Dahmer look like, uh, oh, in terms of another serial killer or air, like just know like he makes Jeffrey Dahmer. Like if you make Jeffrey Dahmer look like fucking, I would say like the Fonz like a rebel like a really light rebel like dabbled in some nefarious behavior compared to Albert Fish who is a fucking monster in a way that we have I don't think we've truly covered on this podcast so you're saying Albert Fish makes Jeffrey Domber look like the Fonz yes, that's what I said. Hey, hey. I only zombified a 14 year old, hey.

Mrs. C, I'm here to fucking kill you. Hey. I'm gonna go jump that shark, hey. Hey. Albert Fish, even in his time, had many nicknames. The Grey Man, Werewolf of Wisteria, the Brooklyn Vampire, the Moon Maniac, even just the Boogeyman.

How does not one single name have to do with the fact that his name is Albert Fish? Are you kidding me? I don't know to tell you. That's just the, that was just the parlance back in the time. It's like Jesse Cox level unmissable in the name. It's there. They call them fish. The stinky foot. Like foot. Yeah. What is the, yeah. What, what does it mean?

Like big tuna. Well, that's Albert fish wasn't his, uh, birth name is the name he gave himself. He gave himself the name fish. Yeah. Yeah. I want a few other kind of boring names, but Albert fish is what he essentially just went by, you know, by all, by the majority of. I'm not going to explain myself, but I'm going to say that it sounds like Paul McCartney

named him. Okay. I guess I can kind of see that. Yeah, man. Cuckoo. Coo. Dude. Cuckoo. Coo. A monstrous man named Albert fish. Albert fish, the American seller, serial killer, of course, is what we're talking about. And he was a pedophile, cannibal, child murderer, rapist, molester, and many, many other things during his decades long series of crimes. His gruesome crimes, which primarily targeted children, back then, shock and horrified the nation for like I said, literal decades.

He was not working in a way where nobody knew about him. Like I said, these nicknames were given to him during while he was very, very active as a serial killer during this time. His modus operandi was luring in young victims with promises of treats, games, employment, babysitting for parents and more, which always ended up only subjecting them to unspeakable acts of torture, mutilation,

and often murder. What time period was this? 1898. He starts getting active in the 1880s, late early 1890s. Can I be real with you? Yeah. Not once until this very moment have I ever thought about babysitters in the 1800s. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like the concept of a babysitter has never once, obviously it happened, but never once where I was like, hold on, honey, we're going out tonight. We need to call the babysitter.

But where can we find one at this hour? You have to go down like post up a thing. Agatha, it's time to go to the theater, Agatha. Thank you, Samantha, for watching my children. I'll leave 12 cents out on the counter to buy yourself a roast chicken and eight potatoes. Do yourself a favor and go ahead and look up some pictures of Albert Fish right now. Don't read much about just look up the pictures of it. I don't want to know that this guy.

Don't say do myself a favor, bro. Just this is the man that walks up and he's like, I would like to babysit your children. Like this pasty five foot fucking five, like really creepy fucking dude. He kinda is just showing up. He kinda has your eyes. Hey, hey, how, it's true though, he kinda does. Yo, that's a truth right there, oh my God.

He kinda has your eyes. I've had bags under my eyes since I was like fucking 10 years old. Yo, that's a truth right there. Oh my God. Guys, your eyes. I've had bags under my eyes since I was like fucking 10 years old. Listen, let me quantify this. Let me qualify this because it's not really a burn because like Mathis doesn't have the like expanding forehead that makes him look like an actual human version of Toad from the mushroom kingdom or the neck that just extends down into his shirt. Like he doesn't really have a neck and just like a couple flaps of skin connecting his, his, uh, his head to his shoulders. Uh, you know, like that's not math.

It is just, it's just that those two inches right there above the nostrils. He doesn't look as bizarre as I thought he would look plus he's dressed very well. So I feel like he looks like a nobody. Yeah. And what's dressed very well. So I feel like he looks like a nobody. Yeah. And what's interesting looks exactly. He looks exactly like a saloon barman. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's around that time. He looks exactly like that. This is around the time of red dead redemption too. Think about like that or the dude who would play the piano. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Same guy. Yeah. Yeah. A big old rag. He's

wiping shit. Hey, trigger warning for the series. Like there's gonna be some heinous shit that we talk about. And at the very top, my main source for this episode is another book by Harold Schecter, one of the best true crime writers of her time deranged. It's called a, it is just a phenomenal book. I've had it for a long time and it's just worth the read if you're interested in this kind of thing. Uh, yeah. So yeah that late Red Dead Redemption 2 area, the guy who plays the piano at the saloon is like a chef's kiss, perfect description of what this guy looks like. And Fish was kind of like something of like a Pokemon collector of like serial killer red flags.

He had sexual sadism and masochism, religious fanaticism particularly got tied up in all of this. A fascination with shoving sharp objects and things into his body, including up his ass and his dick. Fun fact, when they arrested him, they performed an x-ray and they found 29 needles in his body. Not only not, and that was not including ones that had been there for so long, we're talking years that they become undetectable due to degradation within his own body. We're talking small needles in the fatty parts ofetectable due to degradation within his own body. We're talking small

needles in the fatty parts of his body to degradation in his own body. Yeah, you never got took them out. Like they just started like getting literally like needles that sat in his body for a decade or two his body just took him like he would just put small needles in the fatty parts of his body and his whole goal was to shove needles in so we couldn't get them out in the sharp pain and discomfort you felt would get him off through the day. Jesse is a horrified

look on his face. I'm just letting I'm just kind of waiting for it to sink in for so this guy was like, this guy was like, really? He's like, he's like, he's like pinhead. He's like, well, his favorite place to stick him was his taint. So more like pin taint, taint, dude? Yeah. The weakest of all body parts of all your whole body. He was like, you know what? Not, not the weakest. He did, he did try to stick them in his balls a few times, but it hurt too much. So he didn't buy. He stopped.

I would honestly, I just, I don't even know. Like you're right. this, you know what this guy is making some of the others look like the fonts. I was not prepared. This is like some of his favorite activists he would later find like shoving a rose in his dick, prancing around the room with it in his penis until he came and then taking the rose out and eating it. and then taking the rose out and eating it. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey,. I think, yeah, I think you can get what I'm saying. He started with, and he was like, and he was like, call me fish. Albert fish. It is, but it is, that's still the so far one of the most bizarre parts. And you can call me Albert fish. This man

could have been like, they call me Albert Rose Dick, but instead he was like Albert fish. Why? What is the reasoning pain? Fucker. Yeah. Uh, there, that's a good question. We don't really have a reason that that's why he called what he called himself. It just was fish was a small, quiet man who really, as you can see from the picture, kind of easily blended into the background. He's kind of just like an everyday dude at that time who you see a dime a dozen of these kinds of guys with the handlebar mustaches and all that stuff. So when his monstrous acts did become public and they finally caught him, it really shocked

the public. And again, this is something we see every single time a serial killer is caught. Everybody's shocked by the mundanity of what they look like and the people that they are. They're not these horrible monsters that they've kind of concocted in their own minds. The details of his crimes, including the cannibalism self-harm, were so horrific that they pushed the boundaries of what the justice system could handle at the time.

We had not seen the justice system handle a man like this. The judge just comes in like, all right, where the fuck do I start Mr. Fish? He's like, That's right. Also, fish had a history of mental health problems, which clearly fed into it. And at one point, he also believed that St. John had told him to wrap himself up in a carpet and stay there for hours while he received messages from God, which he did.

He wrapped himself in a carpet and laid there for hours for a while. Like a burrito? Like a burrito. Like a little deviant burrito? That's like- Yep, like a little sexually deviant burrito. That's like that kid in theater class who like goes too hard into the bits. And then like over like several years, you slowly realize he's like a total asshole crazy person who has no

connection to reality. And it's just like, basically just gone as a sociopath, but they just are in theater pretending to be crazy. It's a whole, you know, that's the whole vibe here. This guy's very much the vibe. Yeah. Um, so obviously this, how he became the way he is until he was caught, he wasn't caught until he was 64 years old. The way he...

What? Yeah, it's insane. Another Paul McCartney connection, just saying. Oh shit. Nothing happens in a vacuum. So how did this man become the monster that he was? Well first, as always, I like to look at the time era at which he was born and raised. It's the 1870s, he was born in 1875 specifically. And this is the era in which a rapid change was

happening within America. The Civil War had recently ended, leaving the nation kind of grappling with the wounds of its own conflict and the challenges that reconstruction would possess. And while the Industrial Revolution was also transforming the urban landscape rapidly at the time, much of the country was still clinging to agrarian traditions. In cities like DC, where Fish spent a lot of his early years, the signs of progress were very evident. Horse-drawn, we're talking the time where horse-drawn streetcars clattered along cobblestones with cobblestone streets with gas lamps illuminating like streets at night and new fangled inventions like the telephone and typewriter were slowly making their way into the public sphere.

It's Sherlock Holmes and Watson time period basically. Yeah, it is. Yeah, exactly that. Life in the city also had a more difficult side. Something that we don't think about at this time is that overcrowding was a huge problem as these cities were blowing up during the industrial age, which bred disease, poverty and crime. Child labor was also rampant and fish who was an orphan for a little bit of time had

to learn to fend off for themselves in this world. In the rural areas, life moved at a little bit of a slower pace around this time, still more governed by the rhythms of agriculture, where farmers were still kind of doing their own thing while resisting change for the most part, but it was only a matter of time before that shit would come for them as well. And more modern times in the industrial era kind of swept everybody up. So this is the world that he is growing up in. And he was born, like I said, on a spring day in 1875 in Washington, D.C., where he

was born not Albert Fish, but Hamilton Howard Fish. So he still called fish. Yeah. He still called fish. You made it seem like that. He added the name fish. I got to leave you dangling. I got to leave you wanting and like a fish.

Yeah. Like a fish, the shark struggling for oxygen. His family, like I said earlier, had a history of mental illness with relatives that suffered from various afflictions that he also suffered from in his youth and adult life. His father was named Randall and he was a well-to-do general, a well-to-do guy around this era. He was a riverboat captain who would be eventually be a fertilizer manufacturer, was significantly older than his wife and mother of Albert Allen. We're talking his father was 75 years old

when fish was born, which was a 43 year difference between him and his wife at the time. And something we don't know is like crazy. We don't we have no idea if any like cousins marrying cousins or any inbreeding was happening at the time to kind of around this era. But like it's, it's been a theory that that's why the mental illness was getting like worse and worse is that they may have been sticking within familial bounds when it comes to like the 43 year gap between this wife and the husband. And to further that even Ellen ends up setting

up a marriage for Albert in his teen years. So like that was still a thing as well. Like kind of what kind of what kind of like quality of life are we talking about here? Okay, like when you mean when you mean like arranging a marriage, are you talking about like, mother, take me down to the like luncheon and show me off to the bachelor boys? No, it was still more of a this man has some money and Like he may he can maybe support a family and you're also like a drain on our resources because you're growing up

Well fertilizer manufacturer doesn't seem like that like cheap of a job But during a time where farming is still an enormous industry, that's what I mean I'm saying like it seems like that would be like kind of like you'd be maybe rich if you had that job. Yeah, they were they were well to do, but it didn't last long. Like, however well to do they were, despite that, back to the age disparity first, like, the age disparity was huge. And this coupled with his demanding profession would end up creating like, he was very distant, he wasn't around very often for his

son. And his frequent absences with the age difference limited would end up creating like he was very distant. He wasn't around very often for his son and his frequent absences with the age difference limited the time that Albert really had to spend with his father because he'd come home from work and he was an old man and he's like tired. Exactly. And so like there was no connection there. And we also know that there was a what he knows or remembers of his father was simply his face and that he was cold and distant and that he was a what he knows or remembers of his father was simply his face and that he was cold and distant and that he was kind of cruel to fish. And that was because even at age five, fish was kind of an emotional kid and he was wetting the bed still, which was something that lasted until his late teens, which is something that

tends to be kind of in the history of a lot of serial killers and within the, in the, the truth crime sphere. But you're looking at a father from 18, he was born in like 1810, you know, like this guy. But isn't what I'm, I'm, I'm no psychologist, but I feel like the idea of serial killers wetting the bed is more symptom of like home life. Yes. Oh yes. A hundred percent. Then just all serial killers pee themselves, right? Like it is absolutely symptom of like home life? Yes. Oh, yes. 100% then just all serial killers pee themselves, right? Like it is a symptom of something terrible happening. It almost always is because of a something like it's like an abuse or trauma that is persistent at home. We are really not aware of what like his day to day life was with his parents. By the way, time out real quick.

If you peed your bed, I'm not saying that you had abuse or trauma. I'm saying symptoms, symptoms. Please don't. I don't need that letter. That's like I peed my bed. What are you saying? I don't need that. That's not what I'm saying. No, no, not at all. Please God. I'm with you. How could you say that knowing that I piss myself in bed? Not like this. Hey. So, but even if he had like, had some time to spend for us with his father, it wouldn't have lasted very long because his dad had an untimely death via heart attack in Washington when Albert was just at the age of five years old. But his dad was 80 and his dad, so his dad was 80 years old.

So nobody was like, Oh no, this old man died of a heart attack. So young. Yeah. Who's still working in shit too. Like, you know, that's, that's very surprised making shit. Is he like a business suit guy or like a guy with like a shovel with like shoveling shit? I don't know. I have no idea. I have no clue. He owned the fertilizer business. Yeah. That's what I mean. Like, I don't know. I don't think he was shoveling anything. So whatever little connection he had with like a father figure in his life was instantly gone. And he had no chance to know this guy.

No way. Yeah. Like literally had no chance whatsoever. There's no way where he was gonna like grow old with his dad. Yeah. Yeah. He said he remembers his dad being a stick in the mud.

That was his quote from one of his interviews, sticking mud, classic insult, I guess, back then. Probably because he was fucking 75, dude. Yeah, yeah, probably. When you're five and you're thinking about a 75-year-old man, you're either terrified or you think, well, what a stick in the mud. Yeah, in whatever opportunity Fish may have had

to try and learn or emulate or like understand like social life or grow up with any sort of role model. In the wake of her husband's death, Ellen, his mother so overwhelmed with the grief and the responsibility of raising a young child alone while also trying to find work as a single woman in this time was so difficult. She said that she had to make the decision, the very fateful decision, mind you, to forever change, that literally changed Albert's life forever, to put him into St. John's Orphanage in Washington, D.C. at the age of six years old.

Whoa, she ditched the kid? She ditched him. Was it like pawn shop where like she'll be back later or was it like go find another family? Hang on. You'll find out. You'll find out in today's episode. You'll learn. Good God.

But she gave him up and this was a drawn, like this was an orphanage for like misbehaving boys. This wasn't not an orphanage for like, you know, just kids. It was specifically. St. John's school for a stick sticking sharp shit into your penis. Well, I'm liking it. Wait, so why did she put him in the, in the like reform school?

I imagine maybe easier again. We don't, I don't, the details as to why are not really readily out there. He might, he might already have been, he, like, I'm a widow and that would have been enough back then. I mean, judging by where he is at, at the end of his story, I would imagine he was probably a, a handful at the very least. I mean, I guess. I imagine like he because for whatever the case, Albert would still be no matter what

happened if he went here or his mother kept him, we're learning that Albert is a sociopath. He is a genuine like very detached from an understanding of emotions and just kind of an individual who, but again, you say also, like we've said before on the show, just because you're a sociopath doesn't mean you're a bad person. It's the environment in which he was raised, who he was put in that really started linking like sadomasochism and sexual gratification that end up being inextricably linked that you like unable to be pulled apart. And while this place seemed to be benevolent, it was St. John's orphanage after all, it was this place concealed a dark underbelly of

abuse and neglect within its walls. And it's here that young Albert would transform to the monster that we would know him as moving forward. Whatever your arguments are about, like serial killers might be. Like I said, I truly believe if he had not gone here, we may have seen a different version of like Albert Fish that may have been kind of just a little weird and detached and maybe have some weird proclivities, but didn't go into

molesting and murdering whatever I'm not excusing his actions. I'm just like we did with Dahmer and others, the what could have been, I'm curious what your thoughts will be by the end of this. The orphanage was harsh, wholly unforgiving, where young children were more treated like with cruelty and indifference. Fish, keep in mind, was a frail, very vulnerable, emotional boy, and became a very easy target for the staff's abuse.

He was subjected to frequent beatings, often for minor infractions, and was subjected to various forms of humiliation. The physical pain inflicted upon him seemed to kind of awaken a disturbing fascination. He later recounted that he began to derive pleasure from the beatings, finding solace in the pain rather than recoiling from it or pushing against it. The young Frisch, again, being kind of timid and frail, would also quickly become a target not only for the staff, but the older, more aggressive boys within the orphanage as well. They delighted in tormenting him, forcing him to sit on his knees

for hours at a time and should he move, they'd come beat the fuck out of him, forcing him into verbal abuse, just often just bullying him straight up and eventually moved into sexual abuse, forcing him to perform acts on them, uh, other boys that he was not consenting to in any way being raped essentially. This is, I mean, even though it started to get sexual there at the end, I don't think it was like, and like they're getting off on it. They're just torturing this kid and yep They keep increasing the torture to the point where it's like well We're gonna just defile you and everywhere we can because you're just taking it and he was just taking it correct Yep, exactly and then so my assumption would be the reason why you eventually associated all that with pleasure is because

That was his coping mechanism to get through all that terrible shit. Yeah. Yeah, it's very much apart I think is is part of it The shame and humiliation he felt also compounded all of that, obviously it made it even worse for him. And there was nowhere he could turn. He couldn't go to the people that were running the orphanage because they were beating them too. He was fucking trapped.

The staff were either oblivious to like how he was being treated by the boys or simply indifferent, which is what I think was likely happening. They offered nothing for him. But fish instead of attempting to stop it or twist it or use it to manipulate his way out of it, he simply endured and began to like it. The orphanage also exposed fish to the horrors of a sexual abuse in other ways. The orphanage, like many institutions of this kind, was overcrowded as well, wholly understaffed,

and the children, many of them orphaned or simply abandoned like fish, were treated with just, again, very much like an animal just being fed and punished and that's about it. Discipline was harsh and often just arbitrary, with corporal punishment meted out for even minor infractions. For a sensitive and introverted child like Fish was, this place instantly became a living nightmare for this guy. Fish, in one of the later interviews that he has with those after he's got caught, he talks about Rick calling the first time he remembers feeling like a sexual urge,

and that was at the age of six. As I've said, this orphanage kind of was a place of the highest physical punishment with the further lowliest infractions, and oftentimes in the form of whipping on their backs or more. And Fish ends up recalling one time that he and six other boys were all being punished at the same time so that the others who were actively being whipped at the moment had to watch the other boys being physically beat and hear them scream. It's here, Fish says, that the screams of the boys as they were getting hurt became something more enjoyable

to him and he really enjoyed listening to the other boys being beat in the screams that they let out. And it's here we see where I think the wires between sexual like proclivities and that physical masochism, sadochism, sadism rather kind of start merging in the brain and because that's just how like it works sometimes. Yeah, sexual stuff at six is that's a whole different that's like a mental thing. Yes. Oh, holy. The staff at St. It's like, yeah, sexual stuff at six is that's a whole different. That's like a, a mental thing. Yes. Oh, holy. Uh, the staff at St.

John's equally seemed to derive pleasure, obviously from just beating children. Feedings were daily occurrence, often administered with belts, paddles, or anything else that came to hand in fish who was small and frail just became a daily target for them to just beat for whatever reason they felt like he was being punished for. And it was during his abuse at the hand of these nuns, uh, that his religious fanaticisms also started to begin to creep in and kind of mix into the sexual abuse soup that was being created. While the nuns were punishing and beating the boys in the mix of their screams,

they would also be preaching Bible verses at them, particularly the verses about sins of the flesh, according to fish. Like they were just consistently being preached at. So that was also just kind of getting thrown into the neurological mix of a developing child's brain. So the physical abuse fish suffered, that fish suffered had unexpected kind of effect on him. Instead of recoiling from it, he just found solace in it. The beatings became a perverse sense of comfort, a way of feeling something, I guess like anything

in a world that was cold and uncaring. And this early association of pain with pleasure would later manifest in other self-harming behaviors that we'll talk about. Right. But yeah, this is the, this is the moment in time where like, the man is like forced to turn into somebody that he may not have. I mean, out of all of the people that we've talked about, this is the one that seems the most like, oh, this is they, they like, I don't know if, if like, usually a lot of the time it just sort of happens. And we're like, where the hell was the moment that he like the switch flipped this. Sometimes it's like a head trauma. We think might be in this time. It feels like they straight up just like flipped the switch for him. Yes. This kid could have like, he was six. He could have been anything. And they were like, nah, nah, dude, we're going to,

we're going to really mess you up. Yep. That's how I felt too. Uh, fish in a later interview actually goes on to describe the more impactful events, one of the more impactful events rather that he witnessed that also he seemed to encapsulate himself as a person. Who wants to be Albert Fish and read the quote? I just put it in the chat. But this is him describing an event that he saw that also encapsulated who he was.

You volunteer, who wants to be Fish? I don't even know that I want, I'm not sure. I'll read it. I'll read it. All right, go ahead. Alex. I am a man of passion. You don't know what that means. Unless you are my kind at the orphanage. They put me just before Garfield was assassinated. There were some older boys that caught a horse in a sloping field. They got the horse up against a fence down at the bottom of the field and tied him up. An old horse. They put kerosene on his tail

and lit it and cut the rope. Away went that old horse bursting through fences to get away from the fire. But the fire went with him. That horse, that's me. That's the man of passion. The fire chases you and catches you and then it's in your blood. And after that, it's the fire that has control and not the man. Blame the fire of passion for what Albert H. Fish has done. Yo that's so messed up and like also sounds like something someone's saying a movie. I know. It's crazy.

This man had a something else we'll talk about more in the next episode. He had a sexual writing fetish kink too as well. He loved to describe like what he wanted to do or what he had done or all these things. He very much wrote a lot of shit that we will talk about more next episode. But yeah, this is him talking about, I guess. Now, like whether that story is real or not, because it's coming from fish as the source,

we don't really know. It's certainly akin to something fish used to do and maybe love to do, like torturing animals in a way. Maybe that's something he really enjoyed. But like, it's just a perfect encapsulation as to how we saw himself. But that last line at the end is something so many serial killers do blame the fire. Don't blame me.

It's not my fault. It's the fire of passion. It just caught me and I can't be blamed for that. You also, you also third persons. Yes. For what Albert H fish has done. Yeah. H fish has done.

Albert, that ain't even your name, bitch. Come on now. We already learned it's like Harrison or something. I already forgot. It's Hamilton. Hamilton. Yeah. H fish has done. Albert, that ain't even your name, bitch. Come on now. We already learned it's like Harrison or something. I already forgot. Hamilton. Hamilton. Yeah, there you go. It's just like, come on, Hamilton H fish. However, this story, whether real or not, also seemed to inspire something,

an activity that fish like to do at home by itself. Fish would love to get home, strip down naked, take a long piece of cloth, and then soak it in kerosene. No. Then he'd clench it tightly between his ass cheeks, light it on fire, and run around the house until he, like, wildly run around his house until he came. No, stop. This did not happen.

According to Fish, that's exactly something he did. Ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy before he left or he finally got the fuck out of there. Tilly was 18 years old. Five, when did he go in? Five, six? He was in at six. I guess he was in there till probably like 10. Okay, cool. The orphanage, last bit about the orphanage, he also didn't really get any education there.

They didn't give him any educational opportunities. It was very much a prison in a lot of ways. So he also wasn't being fostered intellectually. So luckily, Fish did eventually get out of that orphanage. 14. He left when he was nine years old. Nope, never mind. Three years he was there.

And the reason he left is because his mom came back. Oh. She had finally gotten a job and decided that she could now raise him. So she came back and took him home. And now she was going to be a mom, totally fine. A great mom to a totally not fucked up nine year old boy who is about to try to figure out how to be like a human. Can you imagine the resentment of like you left me?

Yeah, I can. Dude, it's fucked. I guess it just was just darker and I can't imagine he was furious, but he didn't kill his mom. To be fair, he never killed his mom. He never killed his mom or killed any of his family members for that matter. After returning home, just a few years later, Fish goes on to say that the next individual who

had an impact on his sexual proclivities would be a boy at the age of 12. He claims that he had met this boy who Proclivities would be a boy at the age of 12. He claims that he had met this boy who would go on to introduce him to a couple of other things that he learned to love. Who's 12? Particularly this boy taught him how to drink piss and eat shit and love it. What?

What the fuck are you talking about? Wait, okay, hold on. And this boy, which we never get his name, all we know is he was a telegraph boy. And I looked with that up and telegraph boys, the boys look right around in their bikes with telegraph messages are kind of like proto mailmen. I mean, there were mailmen at the time. So he would be like, yeah, yeah, the boy, maybe around the same age, maybe a little older. He was like, check out your own piss and shit.

That's the good stuff. Didn't explain how it happened. He said it was just through him. He introduced him to drinking piss. Maybe he got peed on and shit on. God. And like he got to. I just through him. He introduced him to drinking piss. Maybe he got on and shit on And like he got to I just don't I This is like Like a like a made-up guy from like like a D&D who's just like I'm called. Mr. Shit

I had the worst life ever I do the worst shit ever look. What do you think when I was 12 years old? I felt I melt I met a proto mailman on the street and he taught me how to eat my piss and shit. Mailman existed. We have to, we had to, we had to redo that mailman existed though. Guys, telegraph boy. He was called the telegraph. That would be like a proto mailboy, 12 year old proto mailboy. He eats his own delicious shit. Awful. You know, the worst part about this is the more you talk about it, the more in my mind

I'm trying to justify why a person would do this. Besides like they're just bonkers. I'm like, well, maybe he was, you know, there wasn't a lot of food and he was like, well, I gotta eat something. I'm honestly, that's where I'm at trying to justify why the proto male boy. I'm like, why on earth would a man do this? If you think about it, there's no way your own shit can be good for you. No, no, it can't be.

It's literally what your body's getting rid of. I have to look, I'm going to fight this and I'm sure something's going to let me know that there probably is people out there. There's probably people out there who like, I love the way it tastes. It's so good. But I, but I have to imagine it's the fetish isn't pee and poo tastes good. It's humiliation. Look, I'm not trying to yuck anyone's yum. I'm just saying like, is this,

is this really about yum? It's no, it's more about, no, it's not about yum. It's about coming. It's been in his pants constantly. Everything ends with him jizzing in his pants, dude. Was he 12 years old when he was running around with a with a rag in his ass to he doesn't mention his age at that point. I imagine that was later in life when he's living alone and not with his mom. Where is this going? Where is this? Where does this end? Where's the end game? What happens? He gets caught at some point. I told you. Does this all come together? He does all this

stuff. He gets caught in his 60s though, dude. 64. He led a full life of just nonsense. Awful, awful heinous shit and it gets worse. Proto mailman. However, at the age of 12, after learning that he loved being a human toilet, the years continue to go on and he started spending a lot more time at like local bath houses for men. They were talking like gay bath houses. At the very least, Fish was bisexual, if not fully homosexual, but this is at a time where that shit was not allowed to be talked about ever. He was going to secret tiny little

bath houses and eventually he himself became a street corner prostitute as well. Like as a 12 year old, more like a 13, 14, 15 year old. Okay. Now he would eventually find himself working in a brothel where he was maybe fittingly the flagellation specialist, both for giving and for receiving. And here we are at the ball rug reference. All right, I guess here we are. Fuck. No, fuck.

Hey, it is J.R.R. Tolkien. You're probably morally kind of a piece of shit, but this buds for you right now. Hey, you and you and you. I don't know. Yeah, he was the flagellation specialist, the brothel. I don't, I don't like that. You know what? Everything you've said so far though about this dude, I just, I don't know. I don't, I'm so, and yeah, see what I mean when I said this is like the real first

step into like the deeper true crime. I've never seen clue. Have you ever seen the movie clue? Yes. We're Mrs. White's like flames, flames. So just overwhelmed by everything that's happening. Whiplash not trying to make another ball rug pun here, but I have whiplash. I'm going from Alex the great to Alex the white. That's what's happening to me right now. I died and I'm alive again with a lot more serious business to take care of. During his time as a flagellation specialist that I have conflicting information that he's either doing it in the DC area or he had traveled to Brussels for a couple of years. It was doing it over there. Well, of course, but regardless of whether he was in DC or Brussels during it

at the age of 17, he would cease doing that and come back to the U S or move to just a different city. If he was already in the U S where else, but what would become his home forever? New York city, baby here, you would become a house painter, uh, which is his profession that this is the profession he would have for the rest of his life from this point on a house painter. Do you think real quick timeout? Yeah. Do you think that there was a moment where he came back from Brussels or wherever and he had gone through his like insane childhood and he was like I got it I got this I got it I

gotta stop this I like I need to be brought back from the brink and then he tried painting and he was like F it if he had that thought F it came real fucking quick like F it came like nevermind I always want to like try to be like well maybe maybe he could have been a good guy. No, no. In fact, the reasons that he took on this job quickly became apparent. It was a job that had obviously some regular work, but more importantly, it would allow fish to get close to people's families, learn their homes, ingratiate himself with other

peoples and building trust with a community that would be betrayed quietly over and over again. We're also talking you took jobs at places like the YMCA and other orphanages on top of the family homes that he was working. The man surrounded himself with what he fucking loved. It's all he cared about. He took jobs for people's homes who had tuberculosis as another example of him targeting more vulnerable people as well. Usually people who was adult or like someone within the family had kids and they had tuberculosis and he would go work for them.

Do you again? I would love someone who has a psychology degree or an actual psychologist because it sounds like what you're saying to me is now he's targeting he is now so he spent his youth being humiliated and degradated and like all sorts of stuff was done to him. And now as an adult, he is going to unleash that on people because it was done to him. So he's going to do it to kids. Correct. And initially it starts just with, and I don't mean to underplay this, but just to give you an idea of like the baseline, it's just quote, just molestation. Like initially that's all he's doing. He's not physically hurting kids. He's not actively like hurting kids.

Cause he has to build up to the actual all builds. Right. And so he's going to start with something that is easier to get away with terrible, but like on his levels of terrible, this is easy. And ended terrible. Right, right, right. Correct. Correct. Yep. That's something again, we've seen, um, another reason that we, you know, another, I guess he would call it a personal benefit of taking on this job was the dress code. Painters back then wore overalls for the most part, except he took that and exploited the fuck out of it. And that was the only thing he would wear on every job. Nothing

underneath no shirts, no underwear, nothing. He was only in overalls all the time. And when he was working, and that meant he could go from Oh, hello to Oh, no, real fucking quick and to be naked within the matter of seconds. What a what a thing to keep in mind. Yeah, just to give you Yeah, while he's doing this, what a thing to keep in mind in general. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you're if you've hired somebody who's wearing overalls, and it looks like they're

lacking anything else, maybe send them home. No, I'm not even, I just mean like, how fast can I get out of this? You think he's doing in front of the mirror and like fucking practice speed? Yeah. What's my, what's my dress to, to Nike ratio? What's my, how good is this outfit? Where does it rate on the Google? You had that shit like just like memorize, I'm buckling the overalls in like two seconds. That shit was on the ground.

He blinked and he's, if it was now he'd have a fucking Google sheet running on Reddit. It's true. People be like giving him up votes and shit. And then they find out he's the guy who like fucking eats piss and shit and kills people. And they're like, Oh, red, it's crazy. This way, just wait. So this crazy. Just wait, just wait.

So this is all by 18, like 1890. All right. We're like 18. Wait, just wait. Don't worry about it. Just wait. He had a chance to bring the dinosaurs back and he didn't do it.

And then he shot mother Teresa's twin. So he's around the age of 20 now moved to fully new into New York City. And it was here that his life took another deeply sinister turn. Obviously, he was engaging in prostitution, not a big deal. But he was also beginning to prey on young boys at this point, most of whom were under the age of six. Despite these heinous acts, though, his personal life seemed outwardly

normal. And in 1898, his mother arranged for him to marry a woman by the name of Anna Marie Huffman a Woman nine years his junior so he would have been 1898. He's 28. So she would have been 19 And together they had six children Albert and a Gertrude Eugene John and Henry The fishes the fishes baby Do you call him a fish find time to do all this dick torture what the hell we're building to the dick duck torture we're not there by the time actually never mind I forget during this time period he

just probably was like honey you deal with the six kids I've got to go dick torture he was still doing crimes though something that he was also was like he was kind of just a petty criminal on top of it as like a hobby. And in 1903, he was actually arrested for grand larceny and was subsequently incarcerated at Sing Sing prison. But this was not this didn't curb any of his disturbing impulses. And what year wait, hold on, hold on. 1903. And he got married when? In 1898. So four years. He had six kids in that time. I don't know if they had him in that time. She didn't leave him

yet. He would come out of prison. He got out of prison. She stayed married with him. Holy shit. Wow. Yeah, he later recounted a pivotal incident involving a male lover who took him to a wax museum after he got out. And there, Fish became fascinated by a display featuring the bisection of a human penis, igniting a new obsession with sexual mutilation that also gets- Cutting people's penises in half? Including his own.

He cut his penis in half? What? What? No, no, no, he didn't cut his penis in half. I'm talking mutilation. I'm talking about mutilating aspect. What? Yeah. Yep. He liked the bisection of a male penis. And he said, there's muscles in my body that are clenching that I did not know could clench right now. I don't know if it is reading via audio, but the uncomfortable nature, both Alex and I feel like math is just telling

this crazy story. And I said, I are like just slowly sinking into our own bodies. You're like, you're, you're going through what I went through about 10 years ago when I first discovered this individual and I was like, what the fuck slowly back over to the fucking so much. We need like six different intros to this episode. They're just like, please, please. Can you do a little song for us? Please? Don't listen to this. We got to go back and say, Hey, you probably should skip this. This one's not for this episode. I'm almost positive. This episode is not for you. Go turn back. Now, if you pay us $10,000 a month, we'll be in the car and you're driving somewhere

Turn on turn on some tunes man. Turn this off. Yeah Yeah, I'm gonna do some like so I'm like aftercare for you boys after this You're at home cleaning your apartment. Hey turn this off and just clean our islands Yeah, go for a drive instead leave playing, but don't be in the house. We still need the view. Actually on advice of council, do not leave this playing in your house. Then leave. So if anyone comes to your house and this is just playing in the background

and no one's there, that's the creepiest shit. That's when he learned that pissing and shitting was delicious. Proto Mailboy. Fuck. Oh, man, we're not done yet. Boys, we got more to go. It's like me making you watch a Neil Breen movie. I must stress how absolutely embarrassed I am for the entire human race. Like all of us. I'm so like one of us did this.

One guy did this. I'm shook on representing humans anywhere. That's what I'm saying. I'm not sure we deserve to keep going. You all feel like I'm out. If there was space Olympics, I think they'd probably disqualify us over this this is nothing next to the fucking blue guy who you can kind of see his dick kind of maybe this is nothing compared to that

I told you he's gonna be dianysus huh yeah I mean it wasn't really Dionysus. It wasn't really Dionysus. It looked like me. But you know, you can kind of see his dick a little bit. That's nothing compared to this. Oh, god. Fuck. Oh, gosh. I did not think.

It really does look like Alex. I don't think you'll be here with this episode. I have thought you guys would be in, like, shock silence. Oh, no, we're in shock already. This is dealing. This is coping. You know that when the spaceship comes episode I thought you guys would be in like shot silent oh no word shock alright this is dealing this is cold you know that when the spaceship comes and they're they're standing on top of the skyscraper and they look up and it blows up the Los Angeles that's because they heard about this guy they came it they said he did what and they came over we got to end that fuck you got in this

so we gotta keep moving. Around 1910 while he was working a job in Wilmington, Delaware, Fish encountered a man by the name of Thomas Bedden, a 19-year-old man. Fish brought Bedden to his residence and they began a sadomasochistic relationship that lasted over two weeks where he didn't leave the home. The extent of Bedden's consent at this point is wildly uncertain, mostly because it seems like Ben was mentally like he had the mind of a child.

I don't know what the right word would be for that. I apologize, but he was much more a little slower than Fish was and Fish took advantage of that wildly. But Fish's confession later on suggested that Ben was intellectually disabled and it just made the whole thing sound way, way, way worse. After it was just shy of two weeks. After 10 days, Fish took Bedden to an old farmhouse.

I'm sorry, after 10 days of meeting him, he took him to the farmhouse and over two weeks, he subjected him to the torture, culminating in the horrific act of severing half of Bedden's penis in half to mimic the art at the wax museum he had seen. Like he cut the front half of his penis into two like a banana? Yep, and Fish chillingly recalled, I shall never forget his scream or the look that he gave me. Why you gotta put that little stink on the voice like that? Yeah, why'd you say it like that?

I was trying to be Fish. I shall never forget his scream. Sounds like a Eurojank horror game. According to according to fish, he initially planned to kill bed and dismember his body and then take it home. However, fearing that the hot weather would attract attention, he decided against it. And instead, fish attempted to treat his wounds by pouring peroxide all over it. What a stick, dude.

Yeah, not only well adjusted, but pragmatic as well. treat his wounds by pouring peroxide all over it. Not only well adjusted, but pragmatic as well. He then wrapped it up in a Vaseline covered handkerchief and left him a Vaseline covered $10 bill as a goodbye before leaning in and kissing him goodbye and taking the first train home back to New York, never going back. So we don't know what happened to bed and after he just was like, fuck off, bro. Bye. Because he never learned what happened. We don't really know what had

became of him. We don't know what happened to bed and after that. So yeah, you know, he quickly was like, that wax museum down there try that Oh, God, oh, God, he's screaming, gotta go. And he left never returning then in January, 1917, Albert's fish life took another tumultuous turn when his wife, Anna Marie Hoffman left him after nearly 20 years. You know what? It took her time, but thank God get out of there, girl. Get your group back. Get out of there. That guy. She left him for a handyman who had been boarding with the family by the name of

John Straub. Yo Straub, my dude, get her out of there. I rescued that woman. Yeah. He was a now, but the worst part is she didn't take the kids. What? She didn't take the kids. She ran and left the care of his six kids to him alone. He raised them and he tried. He struggled to, you know, try to raise them. And for what it's worth, his kids kept in contact with him till the day he died. Even after knowing off the whole, all the horrible crimes, they talk about him like

he was a good father Whether or not he was or he was just you know trauma. You don't know But do you think that that part of his neuroses is whatever was wrong with him is that he takes out his childhood Trauma on others because others did it to him, but he fiercely protects his kids Because he doesn't want that shit to happen to them kind of I think it might be more superficial than that because because others did it to him, but he fiercely protects his kids because he doesn't want that shit to happen to them. Kind of vibe. I think it might be more superficial than that. Cause, uh, Bundy did the same thing.

And I think it's more of the game of being like, I can be normal. I can be good. Oh, that's probably true. Where you're like, yeah, if your kids write you out, you're definitely going to jail, but if you make them on your side, they're there to defend you forever. I'm not on that level. I'm not on that. Like I didn't go there. I wasn't thinking mind games. You know, I've been in the true cry. Yeah. Yeah. You'll get there one day.

It's like a costume, you know, you got to keep it. Yeah. You got to keep that man is the real personality, but the evil version, you know, like of, of that idea, you know, I'm not going to equate this guy to Batman. No, no, no, no, no. He's the fish. The emotional and financial strain was huge for him. And Fish told a newspaper that his wife had taken nearly every possession the family owned when she left.

This seemed to push Fish further into his madness, and he began experiencing auditory hallucinations, claiming this is where he heard the voice of John the Apostle instructing him in one instance where he was told to wrap himself up in a carpet, believing that he was following the divine orders of God and sit there while listening to a God's instructions. Around this time, Fish's propensity for self-harm began to skyrocket. He started embedding the needles into his groin, abdomen, a practice that would be confirmed years later with the x-rays that I talked to you about where they found 29 needles lodged in his pelvic region. Oh yeah.

I wanted to say, I saw this picture on Google images when I was Googling him and I thought it was a fucked up artist's representation of his face screaming. But actually when I clicked on it, it was an x-ray of his pelvis with a bunch of needles stabbed into it. Yeah. Yeah. It's fucked up. Yeah, it's fucked up. And of course, his self-mutilation didn't stop there. He frequently struck himself with a nail studded paddle causing severe injuries. He additionally would insert wool soaked lighter, uh, it's lighter. Oh yeah. And this is also where he started the soaking the cloth and kerosene shoving into his ass,

lighting it on fire running around. This is all after the wife left. This is where this shit fucking just kind of took on. Despite his extreme self abuse, fish was not known to have physically attacked or abused his own children. Though they did witness a lot of dads, weird habits. He did involve them in some of his masochistic rituals. He did encourage his children and their friends to like hit him

with these nail studded paddles that he used on himself turning his home into kind of more of a disturbing perverse punishment scene all the time. So he did involve his kids is definitely traumatizing them, but that he never hurt them. Like that's something they always clung to. These behaviors underscore his. You kept that information out. I got to get there in the story, man.

I have it all scripted out. I'm more messed up. Okay. But by 1930, all his kids were grown up and he was back to living on his own. And Frisch was free of any sort of relationship, familiar or otherwise, chaining him down and having other potential witnesses to some of the more perverse things that he had fantasized about. So this joined one of those matrimonial agencies of the time,

a connection service for more like divorced folk or single folk who have families or kids. And he quickly met a widow with her own children and struck up a casual kind of conversation via letter until after some time he was invited over finally one night to meet them. And on this very first night seemingly Fish was quote unquote normal, if maybe a little weird and reserved but otherwise seemingly normal. And then he got he got pretty friendly with her that night and the children that night so he was invited to come back the next night and fish in his, I suppose, I guess, confidence

began his games with the kids. Very specifically, he started with a game called Buck Buck. How many hands up? What do you boys want to know? Yeah, yeah. Buck Buck. How many hands up? I'll just go into it. To begin this game. Why don't you? Yeah. Why don't you just go right in? Yeah. To begin this game, Fish would head into the bathroom, disrobe everything but his brown

shorts and come back out. So just wearing shorts, shirtless, socks, shoes, all gone. Next, he'd hand each of the kids a paintbrush and would instruct them of the rules. The rules were very simple. The kids would take their free hand and hold their hands behind their back and then put up as many fingers as they wanted, at a random number.

Fish would then have to guess how many fingers they were holding up. And if he was wrong, they would have to spank Fish with the paintbrush for the difference between his guests and the actual answer. So if they held up three and he guessed one, he would get spanked twice. Got it? Yep.

Got it. I mean, I heard you. Cool. Maybe to your own surprise, fish was really bad at guessing the numbers for some reason all the time. It's awful at it. And this would be a game that they would play every night for an hour for days in a row, like two or three days in a row before the next game came along that he was excited to introduce them to.

And this one was called sack of potatoes over. What? Uh huh. Yep. Sack of potatoes over. That's what it was called. In this game, Fish, who was still just in his shorts, would have the kids climb up of him.

He would then stand up, slope his body forward a bit, and the kids would have to slide down his back all while they dragged their nails down his back, scratching him. In one instance, he said he tried to have the kids drag needles down his back, but they weren't too good at it and it hurt too much, so we stopped them from doing it. Like... The look on Jesse's face for listeners is a soulless shock. I mean, I just...

But it's, you know, could be worse. It's like a villain. It's like a villain from like a comic book. That's like, you know how evil I am. This is what I used to do. Yeah. It's like, it's like, you know, those movies that are, uh, man, usually made in like 1970s Italy that are designed to be muscle dudes, like really designed to be or extremely graphic and terrible for the sake of shock.

Like Suspiria? Not Suspiria. Suspiria is one of the finest films ever made. Well, it's Italian horror, right? Yeah, that's true. That's true. These are like, these are like schlocky. Yeah.

Those movies. Gotcha. This is the cinematic equivalent of human centipede vibes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just awful. And is I, everything about it. I'm just like, yeah, cool. Okay. Yep. That's terrible. That's also terrible. No, that's

also terrible. And the entire time, I'm also thinking like the mom's just like crazy guy. Yup. Look at him. Like that's yup. Yup. Dude, hang on. Just hold on. Hang on. After a few days of sack of potato over A new game was introduced at this point I guess he just got bored of making up names in the spot fucking horrible game name, by the way Also, I just want to say sack of potato over sucks. Yes Um, we didn't get a name for this one. I guess he just gave up naming it Uh, this was uh, so the next game he introduced was called Fuck Game. Yeah. No,

this one he brought he brought over a sack of needles. And he told this the get the sack this guy. Yeah, a lot of sacks. He said, This game is about finding out how many needles you can stick under your fingernails. What literal torture zero, none for you for the good you can guess that lasted about one attempt before they said that hurts. No. And they stopped. So they stopped.

I'm good. But he kept playing by himself until both of his hands were covered in blood. And this is testimony from the kids in court. So this is where we're getting this from. Yeah. He had his both of his hands covered in blood as a needle sticking out of them. Fun game. I would not have even went to court with this guy.

Like I would, like, I wouldn't have just been like, he was crazy. He was insane. I, I'm, I'm, I just got, look, I gotta, I gotta say to, to ladies out there, don't let anyone tell you that like, you got to stick by your man or you got like, sometimes you better than him or you can just walk. Yeah. Just walk away. Like this. They weren't even married and she's like, we go on crazy dates. Sometimes he sticks nail like needles under his nails. And what do I like? I would've been like, no, no. Well, if this is a lot of fish, you know,

can you go ahead Alex? Yeah. It's just the worst joke I've ever made. I said there's a lot of fish in the sea. If you guys must know what I said. Nice. I like a lot of fish. Speaking of fish, back to them.

So, hey. So after, so this is, and then no matter what game they played that night, by the way, there was always your tradition after they were done playing the game. The game always lasted about an hour after whatever game they were done playing for the night ended to end the night. He always went into the bathroom where he took off all his clothes. Initially, he would take all of the toilet paper off of the toilet paper roll, bundle it up in the center of the room and then light it on fire.

Why? Yo, I'm again, if I was this woman, I would've been like, my kids have to shit. What are you doing? Like then what? Like then what? That, that, and that in particular, that testimony comes directly from the widow at court. Oh, I, this guy sounds intolerable. Like then what?

Like once you do that, what, like once you have a pile of fucking burning toilet paper in the middle of your room burning, what then what you put it out? You just go over and put it out until it was done. Yeah. He would, he just, until it was out, they wouldn't smell that shit. They'd be like, Oh, thank god. You stuck those nails in me now I'm gonna go in the bathroom kids ignore the smells. That's just my poops We don't know if the toilet paper he lit on fire was used or not But we do know one of the things he was doing to other widows and other people not this one in particular

But other widows around that time was before leaving, he would go shit secretly somewhere in their house and leave it for them to find. And he would get off on it later that he left a shit and they were probably cleaning it up. What the fuck? What the fuck? I know it's audio. The silence is really like there's this stunned stunned face. Uh, so alternating between games and bundles of fire. This went on for 10 days, by the way, all this, this ramp up for all three games. This was less than two weeks. This was 10 days. All this happened before. Finally the widow put an end to their courtship and agreed to marry him.

their courtship and agreed to marry him. No, no. Why? Why? You see that you see those things online. We're like dudes like this. We got to end no fault divorce. Some marriages. This man is a house painter who wears nakey nakey kids.

Kids need both parents in the picture. We, you can't y'all sometimes it's okay to leave a person I'm just like something I was okay to say no like I'm just so get out bro upset With again as is right the Independence Day aliens They knew what was up. They were like we come in peace dog. We're here to wipe out your society We're here for Albert fish and we don't trust any of you with being cool after him I understand

Get out. Oh, it's okay. Um His new marriage wouldn't last super long before the wife realized something was kind of just not quite fully Oh my god, and and so it took her till they were married to be like, something's up with this guy. It wasn't. And then so yeah, yeah, it didn't. They took her a little bit. Um, it's at this point around, we're looking at the year 1919. We're just around this era now. Fish seemingly stopped any semblance of attempting to hold back. And while we have some evidence of fishes, first assault on a child was around 1910. It wasn't around till 1919 that like he started getting really into like, is more fucked up shit. He began to act on his sinister impulses culminating in a brutal stabbing

of another intellectually disabled man in Georgetown. Fish's choice of victims revealed a disturbing but familiar pattern within serial killers. He preyed upon those he believed society would simply overlook. Mentally disabled, the marginalized, those who would vanish without trace, the lesser dead as we talked about many, many times. And driven by his twisted desires, Fish sought out young children, sometimes even paying all other boys to lure younger kids to him that he could then just take and grab. Fuck me.

He would eventually get an apartment after his wife left him and his apartment became very much a chamber of horrors filled with his so-called quote unquote implements of hell which were a meat cleaver, a butcher knife, and a small handsaw tools that would see unimaginable cruelty of use. And in the summer of 1924, Fish's predatory gaze fell upon eight year old Beatrice Keele playing innocently on her family's farm on Staten Island at first, with promises of money and a fabricated errand he needed help with.

Fish tried to coax Beatrice away, but her vigilant mother intervened, chasing off Fish from their property. Fish retreated only to try again later, seeking refuge in the Kiehl's barn trying to hide. But Beatrice's father discovered him and drove him away a second time. Fishes continued to keep, not attempting with this particular child,

but kept descending into his insanity. And by 1924, the 54- 54 year old was consumed by psychosis believing that God himself was commanding him to inflict pain and suffering upon children because if he didn't they were gonna grow up to become harlots and whores and he was stopping them from growing up to a life of sin his depravity basically knew no bounds and according to him the voices in his head grew louder and more insistent, urged him on a path of unimaginable cruelty, and he saw himself as an instrument of divine retribution, a

twisted prophet carrying out what he deemed was a higher purpose. As his obsession with children intensified, so too did his methods. He carefully planned his attacks, studying his victims, learning their routines, and waiting for the perfect moment to strike. His apartment became just a lab of insanity, filled with tools of his twisted desires, and he experimented with different forms of torture, finding pleasure and suffering from his young victims.

There wasn't really a certain type of killer we can really assign to Albert Fish. He seemed to enjoy every aspect and every bit of the process of killing, including the mutilation and the use of the corpse after he had already killed his victim. He truly was like an every serial killer. The more he indulged, the more insatiable again, it came. It's like any serial killer, the cooling off period started to become shorter

and shorter and shorter, and he was no longer content with simply killing his victims. He wanted to begin inflicting maximum pain and humiliation before he took their lives. He saw himself as a master of his craft, so beyond the intelligence of the police that he started writing taunting letters to the victims' families and the cops because no one was on his trail. Nobody could find like figure out who this guy was. Fish's victims were not just numbers to him. They were objects to his fascination.

And while we know he killed somewhere around 15 kids, according to one of the super, uh, the, the courts, um, what do you call it? Uh, Supreme courts judges. They believe that number is likely somewhere in the high 20s of the number of kids he actually killed all through his time. And before his infamous abduction of Grace Budd, which is where we'll be working toward with next episode, he sought to test his gruesome tools on a young boy named Cyril Quinn. Fish lured Cyril and his friend into his apartment with the promise of sandwiches and playful wrestling and playful wrestling began on Fish's bed before the boys accidentally under uncovered the horrifying truth as they were playing the mattress came a little off of the mattress

bed at the holder of the bed or whatever call it mattress frame there it is and underneath the mattress they found the bone saw, the knives, rope, and they immediately became terrified, jumped up and just fucking ran out. Luckily, saving their own lives in the process. Fish is fully unhinged, completely unbuckling his darker impulses and letting them free or burning like that horse, as he once said. And we watch him devolve into the worst monster I've probably read about in a long time and that's where we're gonna pick up next week with part two of the story of Albert Fish

I'm Genuinely upset. There's a part two. I must stress to everyone listening. You don't have to listen next week You don't even have you don't have to you didn't have to listen to this Yeah, you don't even have to listen to this. There's still time to turn this off before it's over. Yeah. A hundred percent. You don't want to hear him sticking about more needles in his bodies. I'll tell you what, after hearing all this, I'm going to say this guy was a real jerk. Got him. Got him.

Try that. If you know, you know. Thank you all so much for listening and supporting the show. Uh, before we go, Hey, if you are into anime and want to check out a podcast about anime, go check out Anime Call with myself, Dodger, and Indy Mouse, part of the Chilumonautic family. We've got a new episode popping up. Well, it should be actually up by the time you're listening to this. And go check out Star Wars New Canon Book Club, that's an old Canon Book Club rather,

because you guys have been popping out episodes recently as well. We do have those episodes. That's true. We got a couple. What was the most recent one about? We got a couple popping out right now. The last one was about the newspaper strips. It was pretty crazy.

Alan Moore wrote some Star Wars for Marvel comics in UK that we're about to cover in like a week or so. And then we got more comics on the horizon. It's like Star Wars comic. There's like a whole other multiverse that happened before the canon that we thought was the old canon. It's crazy. So.

And it's like a palette cleanser after an Albert Fish episode. We'll be back next week. Thank you all so much for supporting us. It's probably a talking fish in Star Wars. Yeah, it probably is. Yeah. We appreciate you.

We love you. Bye. Bye. Anyway, me and my wife were sitting outside indulging on our porch one night, enjoying ourselves. I needed to go to the bathroom, so I stepped back inside and after a few moments, I hear my wife go, Holy shit, get out of here! So I quickly dash back outside. She's looking up at the sky in the fall.

I look up too, and there's a perfect line of dozen lights traveling across the sky. So Thanks for watching!