Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 284 - Crop Circles

Starting point is 00:00:00 Drive safe and obey the rules of the road. Vehicle owners who receive a red light or speed camera violation can pay or dispute online at toronto.ca slash aps. Hello everybody and welcome back to the Chiluminati Podcast. Episode 284 is always on one of your host Mike Martin today joined by the Thanos and Gamora of LA. Oh! Cassie and Alex. I'm 100% Gamora.

Starting point is 00:00:43 I'll take that. Okay. Fine. Then I'll do it myself. I'm 100% Gamora. I'll take that. Okay. Fine. Then I'll do it myself. I'm just a carpenter. You got the sproach in. Yes. Yes. But that means your brother is Harry Styles. So that's kind of cool. Actually, maybe I want maybe I want to be Thanos just because Thanos is an eternal. That's true. Sorry, dude. No, but he's like, also, I feel like this is inaccurate. Thanos and Gamora. That's true. Sorry, dude. No, but he's like, what do you call? I feel like this is inaccurate Thanos and Gamora

Starting point is 00:01:06 That's like father-daughter relationship exactly. It really should be two daughters I'm waiting for that artwork and read it one of you being the daddy to the other's daughter I'm clearly the daddy. I'll be tell you what Jack. Jesse can be Jesse can be Thanos and I'll be Somebody else the Marvel Universe. I don't know. Let I'll be somebody else in the Marvel universe. I don't know. Let's throw out somebody else. I don't know. Black Bolt. Oh, that's a deep cut right there. I'm all right with that. I'm awesome and destroy half the galaxy. You try. You can't over speak.

Starting point is 00:01:39 The thing about Thanos is that famously he never wins. That's his whole... The thing about Thanos is famously he's the world's biggest simp. And that man loves death. He he's a complicated fellow that thing is not the podcast. Just read the Eternals by Karen Gillan. That's your that's your Chaluminati comic shop recommendation of the day. Is the Eternals comic as bland as the Eternals movie?

Starting point is 00:02:09 No, no, not even remotely. Look, there's actually things going on in it. Look, the Eternals movie is like so close to being cool. It's just that none of the stuff that happened in it mattered. If if it if if like after that movie, to if after that movie occurred everybody was like, holy shit The fucking earth is out of orbit. What the fuck is that thing? Oh shit That's what brave new world's about though. There is it's all about celestial island and them getting adamantium off of it. That's stupid Like not even like a secret plot.

Starting point is 00:02:46 We talked about it. Wish granted. Jack Kirby's back, baby. You got a man to him. Come on, let's go. We're ushering in the era of adamantium. It's not going to matter when they like battle world us and three movies. Like none of this matters. They're literally wiping the slate clean any this is all pointless and this is like the last four movies in the dc universe when they wipe

Starting point is 00:03:10 those out like well why do i care if they have any semblance of hope to like defeat the summer of superman and like somehow weather this and continue making marvel movies it's fantastic fours is gonna be one going up But what I'm saying is everything, every new piece of information that goes into the Marvel and cinematic universe right now, either has to be directly about Secret Wars or directly going to matter after Secret Wars. That is the only two options right now.

Starting point is 00:03:39 There is no matter afterwards is a whole new thing. I'm telling you. Well, I bet you we will see like, I bet you the Fantastic Four will carry over to this new world of whatever. The Fantastic Four is the main character. Like that's the new bit going forward. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, you're right.

Starting point is 00:03:55 Everybody else is pretty much going to be wiped out. I imagine they'll keep Charlie Cox's daredevil. That's what I'm saying. All the shows will exist, but it won't make any sense. Not it's not a reboot. It's not a reboot. No, no, it's not. It's a, it's a, it's a reshuffle. So like some stuff is there. Some stuff is not like the era of mutants. Yeah. Like after I did a bunch of episodes of Chiluminati, right? Like it's, it is then followed by another episode of Chiluminati, right? But it's just, but this time- Yeah, instead of I host it, Mathis hosts it.

Starting point is 00:04:27 I'm back, baby. Yeah. And it's thanks to you guys at Patreon.com that we can do this, where Battleworld will never affect our income from you. It'll affect me, because Doom is coming for your world. Actually, that money is already going to somebody who's made quite a bit of money. Robert Doomy Jr. Robert Doomy Jr. I used to be Iron Man. Actually, that money is already going to somebody who's Robert. Why do you need a junior Robert? Do you are used to be Iron Man?

Starting point is 00:04:50 Read records. If that's what this is, that sucks. I don't think that's what this is. I think it's going to be like people are going to like in from from the MCU, be like, oh, my God, it's it's Iron Man. He's just be like, I don't know who that is. I'm doom. And that's going to like in from from the MC. You'd be like, oh my God, it's it's Iron Man. These just be like, I don't know who that is. I'm doomed. And that's going to be it. Basically. All right.

Starting point is 00:05:07 It's time for our Marvel mailbag. Let's get in there. Let's answer some questions from some listeners. Initially, 16 of the New Avengers. So that's bendis. Thanos was the greatest power in the galaxy. But since then, it's come to our attention that the Celestials exist

Starting point is 00:05:25 and in that that's how I imagine that would go and honestly not here for I can I can hang I can hang in there already like having an anxiety from like reading a hearing that fake email being read I would happily hang out in that realm. No you gotta hang on my realm today. It's right, it's right. Alex is right, we're back. It's me. I'm in charge again. And this episode has been a long time coming I've been on and off working on this one for god over a year easily But really digging into it for the past few weeks to get this done and it's like the longest script I've ever written word It's like 30 pages. So we'll see if we get like through it all But this is a topic that I'm surprised we haven't covered before and one that is surprisingly a deep rabbit hole

Starting point is 00:06:04 And as I was writing the script came across before and one that is surprisingly a deep rabbit hole. And as I was writing the script came across a few names that after I did some research directly tie to the larger topic I'm going to be doing somewhat in the near future. Is that just stuff Fox Molder cares about? Is that what the topic is? Yeah, yeah, pretty much. Today we are talking about a very classic alien topic. Crop circles now is going to be a really fun one. I'm sure there's a lot. Everybody knows what a fucking crop circle is.

Starting point is 00:06:32 You know, these are the things that just appear suddenly, usually overnight in fields across the world. I love this because I'm getting a sense of something already that I know is going to happen in this episode, which is that we're going to do like pretty much the Crop Circle episode that you expect to hear, listener, where- I wonder, yeah. I do wonder what you're expecting to hear. Well, here's what I think is going to happen. We're going to start by talking about the

Starting point is 00:06:56 story of Crop Circles and people discovering them and the media circus around them. And then we're going to find out the mundane explanation for crop circles and then that's where most episodes about crop circles would end but then math is gonna say however circles are quite different than the other one strange just like you've known me for so fucking long that's that's that's almost beat for beat the layout of this script actually that's fucking insane insane. All right, you can skip this episode then. It's fine. See you guys next episode.

Starting point is 00:07:27 Don't, I guarantee you're gonna walk away having learned something. And Jesse, actually, what, because obviously Alex has gone down this rabbit hole before. What is your understanding, Jesse, of crop circles? Is it you're kind of like the typical pop culture? They show up, it's fascinating, and then you learn how people do it kind of thing or? Um, my big love of crop circles is the intricate designs that the explanations are always fun.

Starting point is 00:07:53 It's like, well, the landing of the ship didn't or the ionization or the radiation or, you know, or it was let it was burnt into the ground as a message, right? But most of the time it's just like really cool art in crops. And I'm totally, I think you are absolutely the layman's understanding of a crop circle, I'd say. So that's good. We'll see. I'm curious if your mind will change by the end of all this. Yeah, I've watched the video. They think a lot of people watch that came out, I don't know when, but straight up just like dudes in England with like paddles on their feet, slow walking through a wheat field. Oh yeah, we're going to be talking, their names are specifically Borley and Char. We're talking about them in this episode. They are a prominent spot in this. So

Starting point is 00:08:39 yeah, we'll just go ahead and start with the very beginning. The phenomenon of crop circles themselves as we know it today, seems to take root in the latter half of the 20th century. While there are scattered historical accounts of circular formations and fields dating back literally centuries, the modern era of crop circles, I would say, really began in the 60s and 70s

Starting point is 00:09:00 and then fucking exploded in the 80s for a while, primarily, as you mentioned, in the English, or in England, in the countryside, very specifically around Wiltshire. I feel like this is the ones that everybody knows about, right? Yeah, you're gonna, we're gonna go through a few, not more than a few of them.

Starting point is 00:09:18 We're gonna go through a lot of different crop circles. But this region in particular is steeped in, obviously, ancient history, folklore, it's home to the iconic sites like Stonehenge and Avebury. These early formations were for the most part pretty simple, single circles, sometimes with a few smaller quote unquote satellite circles around them. But their sudden appearance coupled with the lack of explanation for their creation quickly captured public attention. Newspapers ran stories, researchers flocked to investigate and the mystery very quickly deepened into something more.

Starting point is 00:09:51 So we're gonna roll back through an event that I would say kind of kicked off modern history crop circle kind of fever, known as the Tully Saucer Nest. This happened on January 19th, 1966 in Tully, Queensland, Australia, and a farmer by the name of George Pedley reported an extraordinary experience. He claimed to have heard a hissing sound and then as he walked over to investigate it while he was kind of going up and down his farm, he witnessed what he says was a disc shaped object estimated around 25 feet across and

Starting point is 00:10:26 floating about eight feet high quickly rise up from a nearby swamp. The object described he described as a bluish gray. A hissing sound. Yeah, weird hissing sound. I wonder if he meant like a snake or like gas. Yeah, I was thinking more steam or gas because he said it raised up from the swamp. So like it's... Yeah, that's kind of like it wrote he said it raised up from the swamp. So I get Yeah, that's kind of like it says how I imagine it Yeah

Starting point is 00:10:48 The object described was bluish gray reportedly spun rapidly as it ascended before disappearing to the clouds at a steep angle and what Pedley found were the Where the object had allegedly been was weird a large circular area of flattened reeds about 30 feet in diameter. The reeds were swirled in a clockwise direction and appeared to have been uprooted rather than simply flattened. These things kind of pulled up and then put down. Furthermore, the water in the center of the circle was reportedly clear of debris as if it had been somehow scooped out. Several other smaller quote-unquote nests were also found nearby.

Starting point is 00:11:29 So this event was then dubbed the Tully Saucer Nest, and it quickly attracted the attention of UFO researchers who descended upon the area to investigate and I imagine were just as nerdy and weird back in the 60s as they are today. What do you think the notion of a saucer nest was at the time? I don't think there really was much of one, which is why I think this is what kicks it off. So there was no... They didn't call it a crop circle.

Starting point is 00:11:51 They're calling it a saucer nest. They weren't thinking to themselves, like, this is like a home base where the saucers live. No, they definitely did not think this was like a landing zone for the saucers. Like a proper nest. Yeah. No, no, no. Yeah, they didn't think this was like the saucers shat out eggs and just like hung around

Starting point is 00:12:08 to hatch more flying saucers. You know. You know how it is. Yeah. Yeah, just like, nope. Or was it, yeah, nope. Yeah. Yeah, nope.

Starting point is 00:12:15 I think so. While skeptics obviously also kind of joined, they suggested the phenomenon could have been caused by a whirlwind or other natural forces. The Tully saucer nest became a cornerstone of ufological, I don't even know if that's a real word, but I make it one. It feels good. I buy it. Yeah. Thank you. I buy that. I do that concept. Because Microsoft Word tells me it's not a word, but I like it. They cited that as evidence as actual extraterrestrial

Starting point is 00:12:46 visitation and its circular shape certainly provided a visual and conceptual link to crop circles that would emerge much more prominently years later. But we can even go back further than that to look at some others that we would deem crop circles now. Way back to 1678 and the mowing devil circle. Have you heard of this? The mowing devil circle? No, I'm not. That's enough.

Starting point is 00:13:13 So this is accompanied in a news pamphlet titled Strange News out of Hartfordshire and this little artwork on the pamphlet depicted a demonic figure apparently cutting a circular design in a field of oats. The accompanying text tells the story of a farmer after a dispute with a mower over wages swore that he would rather the devil mow his field than pay the demanded price. And then that night according to the pamphlet, the devil showed up with this silenced pistol

Starting point is 00:13:46 from episode one and a lawn mower and mowed a circle just in the one spot. Yeah, no, so the story tells a farmer that night, according to the pamphlet, he woke up and it said, the field appeared to be on fire. And then the next morning, a perfect circle was found cut into the crops. Well, now there's actually, let me get a quote, you can actually read this particular news

Starting point is 00:14:12 pamphlet and I'll give you a link to the actual picture. I was going to say I want to see the demon, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So here is the, how about whoever wants to in their best 1600s voice, it's just a straight copy paste so it's written in a weird language. Do you want to take it? Me? You want me to-

Starting point is 00:14:29 LMU, and this is the picture of it, right? And that's the picture of it you can go look at. Oh yeah, I gotta see the- Of the pamphlet from that time. The Mowing Devil, or strange noose, out of Hertfordshire, being a true relation of the farmer who, bargaining with a poor mower about the cutting down three-half acres of oats, upon to mowers asking too much, the farmer thought that the devil could mow it rather than hay. And, though it fell out, that very night the crop of oats hewed as it had been all aflame, but next morning appeared low neatly mowed by the devil,

Starting point is 00:15:14 or some infernal spirit that no mortal man was able to do, Lord. I know how the fleet oats hilly went out out of the field and the owner has not power to fetch them away. I'm not even sure I understand that. Those just mean gave you the quote. Those are just, those are just S's bros. Those are S's. Yeah. It looks like an L. Yeah. The one that's like, that looks like a, like a lowercase F with no cross. So really you should have done this.

Starting point is 00:15:49 Really? I definitely specialized in English literature. Um, the middle and old English variety. Well, I'm glad I did it then. That's fun though. And, and, and I want to just say about this devil. It doesn't seem like he saw the devil. I think he just, this is just illustration, but this illustration sucks. Oh, I like this illustration. He's just a little Goatman with a little like one horn, like instead of instead of two horns coming out of either side, we're just one in the middle bald head going straight up. And he's out there.

Starting point is 00:16:17 You know, he's laughing like he's looking. He's looking gnarly. That's all I'm saying. There's debate that this is even just like a parable of like pay the people that are like, you know, he's laughing like he's looking, he's looking gnarly. That's all I'm saying. There's debate that this is even just like a parable of like pay the people that are like, you know, whatever like don't invoke the devil. Yeah, don't invoke the devil all that good shit, but it's notable that even back then it was popping up.

Starting point is 00:16:36 What year was this 1678? You're telling me in 1678. We still had like grab attention headlines like the mowing devil or strange news out of Hartfordshire. Like that's, I love that. When I saw the ad for a coffin sale from ancient Greece written on the lid of a coffin at the marketplace, I lost my mind. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:17:00 Humanity just oddly is the same. You know, it rhymes as they say, as they say, they try to be like, get your paper here. Hot for Shire Devil. Let's move forward back into more closer to modern modern day. And yes, while the UK and particularly Wiltshire became an epicenter of the crop circle craze, particularly in the 80s, the US also had a share of intriguing though

Starting point is 00:17:25 less publicized events and investigations during the mid 20th century. This period coincided with the height of the Cold War and of course the flying saucer craze that also kind of came along with it. So it's not a surprise that the US government, specifically the military and intelligence agencies took an interest in any unusual aerial phenomena, including formations that might be associated with them. It's also important to note that the term crop circle wasn't widely used in the US in the 1940s through the 1960s.

Starting point is 00:17:54 Reports of unusual ground markings were usually investigated under broad umbrella terms like just UFOs. Like it would just be like a UFO investigation and it wouldn't be labeled a crop circle How could they possibly separate them when the original name for them was UFO nests? I? Don't know. Yeah, I don't tell you that's just what the American decimal made the u.s. Did that's so dumb In project blue book the US Air Force's official investigation into UFOs from 1952 to 1969 did examine some cases that involved ground traces including circular or unusual patterns in vegetation. However, their primary focus was on all the aerial sightings as we know and so

Starting point is 00:18:34 there's not much in Blue Book about this stuff and also unfortunately detailed records of specific crop circle like formations that were investigated by Project Blue Book are scarce and usually buried within larger UFO case files. This is partly due to the classification of a lot of these documents at the time and partly because ground traces unless directly connected to a witness aerial event were not always thoroughly documented by Project Blue Book because again they were mostly looking to the sky. But there are scattered mentions and some official investigations that we can look at and name. We've got 1957 in August, Ohio near Jesse's favorite, the Wright-Patterson

Starting point is 00:19:10 Air Force Base. To note, that is where Project Blue Book was also headquartered at. There were reports of flattened circles of crops with burnt centers. The Air Force investigated and there was some speculation about the involvement of experimental aircraft from the base or potentially Helicopters the case to this day remains unsolved Then we got 1964 in April, New Mexico April in New Mexico in the same year as the famous Lani Zamora UFO incident, which we'll talk about more one day In Socorro, New Mexico unusual ground markings were found in a nearby area. While not strictly crop circles, these markings were investigated by Project Blue Book

Starting point is 00:19:49 in connection with the Zamora sighting as they were believed to potentially have been landing traces of an unidentified craft. 1967 in North Dakota, the Minot Air Force Base had a series of UFO sightings that year and some minor investigations were made into circular impressions found in fields near the base Although these were largely largely attributed to natural causes Do you have any idea of the size not from first for not these?

Starting point is 00:20:16 Unfortunately not like but we're not talking about like fucking like the fucking male female symbol looking one. No, no nothing crazy Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no markings were noted, but often they were dismissed as being caused again by more natural phenomena like whirlwinds, animal activity, or fungal growth such as fairy rings. I don't know if you know what fairy circles are or fairy rings are, but it's like a mushroom circles that just grow in a circle. You see them literally, they're real. Yeah, everywhere. If you're a video game fan, World of Warcraft had a secret one hidden for years and years

Starting point is 00:21:03 and no one knew what it did. And eventually they finally did a thing with it. It was goofy, but like, yeah, there was, you know, so even nerds should know what that is. If you're a Dr. Who fan, you still have no idea what that fairy circle was all about. Yeah. Yeah. Fair. It's also worth noting that the FBI at this time was known to investigate several cases of quote unquote mysterious circles in crops, often at the behest of local law enforcement. However, these investigations rarely turned up anything publicly or conclusive at all

Starting point is 00:21:34 and were usually, as always, attributed to natural causes or pranks. That's pretty much what they always said. The US investigations into crop circle-like phenomena during this period were largely overshadowed by the broader focus on UFO sightings and of course the Cold War. While there wasn't a dedicated effort to study crop circles as a distinct phenomena, the fact that these formations were noticed and investigated even if tangentially suggest a level of official curiosity on the government level. Like these documents exist, there are a lot of redacted.

Starting point is 00:22:05 Somebody was taking a legitimate interest in spending actual taxpayer dollars to like see what the fuck. It's possible that further declassification of documents in the future could shed more light on these things, but like we don't know because I look at Greenwald and how he requests documents and it took 17 years for one of the documents to come out that agree. I was going to say like, what do you mean? And there's no guardrail onto what can be redacted from these documents before they're

Starting point is 00:22:33 released anyway. If you look at some of the documents he's gotten, it's like pages of just complete redaction. So FOIA even in and of itself is not the most reliable source for information. But who knows, maybe in the future we will get some sort of declassified stuff during this period. Regardless, it seems investigations did find nothing particularly unusual at least what they let us know in the more complex GM geometrically precise formations that would later become

Starting point is 00:22:57 synonymous with the term crop circle have yet to even emerge on a large scale in the mystery for the time being we're at this time, like again, 40s to 60s, remained largely confined to the realm of speculation and private investigation. And that's pretty much it. But these intricate designs were popping up and they got more and more complex as the decades wore on. The intricate designs began appearing in fields

Starting point is 00:23:21 and then began more public whispers of potential alien involvement. And as public typically does, gets very excited about things. It all fueled this global fascination with crop circles. Because remember, while we're going to be mostly focusing on the UK and the US, there's all over the world. South America, like you name it, everywhere. As the phenomenon, I would say, reached its peak in the late 80s and early 90s, a new narrative began to kind of pop out of this. One that offered a surprisingly down to earth explanation

Starting point is 00:23:51 to all of these crop circles popping up. And that was that of human artistry. And that's where we're gonna dive into what we call one, what they call themselves circle makers. Now, one of my main sources was the book circle makers by the circle makers who claimed to have done a lot of this stuff Their book is annoying. It's a square. It's not even like a book like a book shape It's like a perfect square and it's just I don't know. It's a very

Starting point is 00:24:19 It wasn't a great read. I wouldn't recommend it but as It wasn't a great read. I wouldn't recommend it. But as, as this thing's got, became more popular, it's true. A lot of people did start to figure out how to like do these things and go out and make their own art. And the most famous of these, arguably the most famous duo that ever ended up doing this for public perception were the two you mentioned, Doug Bauer and Dave Chorley, two jovial Englishmen from Southampton and in 1991 they

Starting point is 00:24:49 They did I'd say I'd say they stunned the world by claiming that they had been the ones creating crops It was like a fucking magic trick. Like it seems possible they could do it in 70 Yeah, yeah They've been he said they've been doing it since the 70s and they've just getting more and more complex around this time In the 90s, we're looking at things like the Julia crop circle, which will go over In a little bit, but just to keep in mind like this is during a time where things are getting very very complex I mean they said they use nothing more than simple tools They had planks of wood rope and a bit of wire that was tied around their hat that came down into a circle

Starting point is 00:25:27 that sat in front of one of their eyes. That way they were able to keep it like that's how they kept the lines straight essentially. Yeah, yeah, you can see this video like there's footage of it everywhere. Yeah, you can literally go watch them do it. They even demonstrated their technique for a group of journalists creating a relatively simple but convincing like crop circle, like look from above. It is it looks like it pretty much looks like crop circles. They do now there's some interesting weirdness with theirs compared to some of the other ones we'll get to.

Starting point is 00:25:59 But genuinely, for most people you look at it like, oh, yeah, no, OK. They definitely did it. And this story turned out to be compelling for everybody Bauer and Chorley had seemed to have cracked the code Let everybody know hey, it was us They described how they would sneak into fields at night using planks to flatten crops by pushing on pushing them down While walking along a straight line The ropes were used to measure out circles and create straight lines, anchoring one end at the circle's center,

Starting point is 00:26:27 and then walking around it with the plank. They claimed to have created hundreds of crop circles over the years, motivated by a desire to prank the public and poke fun at the UFO craze. Among the formations they claimed responsibility for were some of the early, simpler designs that had initially sparked the mystery, as well as some from the mid 1980s

Starting point is 00:26:47 And their confession seemed to provide a neat tidy solution to this enigma if two men with simple tools could create such impressive Formations surely there was no need to invoke Like aliens to blame for this the media embraced their story and the hoax explanation for this. The media embraced their story and the hoax explanation quickly gained traction and many accepted at that point that crop circles are simply an elaborate ongoing prank and just like that, the craze for crop circles essentially was doused. Just done. Because everybody was like, oh. Yeah, yep. They were just like, oh, okay. Well, okay. And that's it. And so the only

Starting point is 00:27:22 ones left were the people who were already doing research and people who weren't convinced who may be more prone to conspiratorial thinking, shall we say. And there are quite a few names in here. Is Michael Martin's name in there? In the story of Trump circles or whatever that are like- In just general, nevermind. Yeah, that are like not great, but they're not at all, they're not sources for information. So they're kind of, you can throw them away anyway. But yeah, conspiratorial people did end up sticking around this too for quite some

Starting point is 00:27:46 time but this was it this was a nice neat explanation but Bower and Chorley weren't the only ones that stepped forward claiming to be circle makers other groups and individuals came forward as well eager to demonstrate their skill get on the news add to the growing narrative that crop circles were purely a human endeavor, and one such group was the Circle Makers, founded by a man by the name of John Lundberg. They along with Rob Dickinson and Will Russell approached the creation of crop circles as a form of land art, trying to push the boundaries of the medium and creating increasingly complex

Starting point is 00:28:22 and ambitious designs. I want you to keep in mind in all this too. And this is something that's often not brought up. Doing this is a crime. Don't go into somebody's property and ruin their crops. Their crops up. Yeah, I mean, sure. This is a enormous crime that if they actually did it, then they should be like, you know, fined for it. What happened to the British guys?

Starting point is 00:28:40 Oh, they they kept as time went on, they would keep showing up and start giving more and more elaborate explanations and we're going to go back to them in a little bit when we get to a crop circle that they claimed they made and how they got out without leaving a trace. It's an amazing explanation that makes no sense. But these circles, the circle makers founded by John Lundberg, they, like I said, along with Rob Dickinson and Will Russell, approached the formation of crop circles as land art, trying to push the boundaries of this medium and creating increasingly complex and ambitious designs. The Circle Makers created crop circles in various countries and even worked with international

Starting point is 00:29:18 brands to create commercial crop circles for use in advertising, which is true. You can go see some of the ads that they worked with and made with crop circles. Lundberg in particular became a prominent figure in the crop circle world, advocating for the artistic merit of the formations and openly sharing the techniques that he used and that were involved. He argued that the beauty and precision of crop circles was a testament to human creativity and ingenuity, not evidence of alien contact. That the circle makers and other artists who followed in their footsteps demonstrated that

Starting point is 00:29:48 even highly complex geometric patterns could be created in fields using relatively simple methods given enough planning, manpower and time. The case closed feeling was kind of solidified by the fact that these groups often documented their work, creating time lapse videos of the process and further demystifying the creation of crop circles. There's plenty you can go see and these things are out there. They're true explanations for a lot of this stuff. And at this point when they step forward to it, it seemed to be the last nail in the coffin. This seemed to be it, mystery solved. Crop circles once a source of wonder and speculation were now just kind of widely seen as

Starting point is 00:30:23 product of human hands, now being used for advertising, testament to our capacity for both artistry, but also deceiving people for attention. And alien theories that were so alluring began to fade into the background and totally replaced by a narrative of earthly creativity and good old-fashioned pranking, which is true for a vast majority of these things. And with this mystery being solved, Crop Circles now were kind of done. Now, John Lundberg, as we touched upon earlier, stands out as a particularly significant figure

Starting point is 00:30:56 in this case closed scenario. He wasn't just a prankster like Bauer and Chorley kind of said they were. He also approached the Crop Circle making as like I said, a legitimate art form, co-founding the group Circle Makers, also known as Circle Maker Arts or Circle Makers.org. And this group, which included artists like Rod Dickinson and Will Russell, quickly became known for creating some of the most elaborate and visually stunning crop circles ever seen. Lundberg's philosophy was that crop circles should be appreciated as land art or site specific art, a form of artistic expression that interacts directly with the landscape. He openly shared the techniques he used by the circle makers

Starting point is 00:31:33 continuing to just make this more obvious and the circle makers under Lundberg's influence were responsible for a number of the high profile crop circles that people truly latched onto as alien explanation. And then they went on to work with people like Nike, Microsoft, and Dinky. Just to make sick ass stuff. Yeah, demonstrating that, again, continuing to try to demonstrate that these were manmade.

Starting point is 00:31:57 Some of the notable crop circles that he attributed to the circle makers were the DNA formation from 1996. This is an intricate design resembling a double helix. Peered in Eastfield, Alton Barnes, Wiltshire. It's very complex. We've got the Maxwell formation in 2003. The group worked with the electronics company. Maxwell formation? Yeah. They worked with a...

Starting point is 00:32:20 Oh, Maxell. ...electronic company. Maxell. Maxell. Yeah, Maxell. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To create a crop circle resembling the company logo. They did the Sun and Moon at Avebury in 2007.

Starting point is 00:32:30 This was another very intricate design. And then the snowflake at Silbury Hill in 2007 is another massive design that they claim they did. Lundberg's impact on the crop circle phenomenon was basically just permanent at this point. He truly helped bring it from a mysterious enigma to what he considers a recognized art form, though a controversial one. A controversial one because it like destroys somebody's livelihood whenever you do it?

Starting point is 00:32:56 Yeah, yeah, exactly that. That's so dumb. I know the ones where he worked with a company, they paid the people appropriately for it, but the ones where he just did overnight like oh you think yeah You I don't know. It's I don't know. It's weird By the end of the 2000s the idea that crop circles were solely the work of humans was basically Mainstream at this point the debunkers had proved in every way at least to most that this was all made man-made but

Starting point is 00:33:21 Was it the whole story or are there cracks that are still there that can't be contained? Remember at the beginning of this episode? Yeah. What I said, you guys? I do. We're there. We're there.

Starting point is 00:33:34 See, mystery solved, right? Two jolly Englishmen with planks and ropes have been pulling the wool over everybody's eyes for years, creating elaborate crop circles. It made sense to me. It made sense to me. Circle makers doing all kinds of advertising work and doing their own external art, all kinds of crazy stuff. Jesse, you were about to say something?

Starting point is 00:33:51 I feel like you could equate crop circles and the sort of mystery behind them with the same lack of understanding that leads to people thinking NASCAR lines equals aliens, you know what I mean? Yeah, I think so. Because it's something that can be created on the ground yet can only be visualized from above and people always get the idea like, well, how is it that we could do that if we need to be able to see what we're doing? And the only way to see is in the air.

Starting point is 00:34:28 And so like that kind of thing. And so I'm always amused by that because I feel like these guys, for example, prove that just mathematics can make it happen. Absolutely. You don't have to be smart. You can just math it out and it will look like something in the sky. And so I'm very curious where the, but what really does it mean? Cause in my mind, I'm like, Oh yeah, no, these guys just were very smart.

Starting point is 00:34:52 And they did something that potentially is illegal, but they did something. And it's super interesting that they did, but I'm ready for it. What is a, what aliens actually did this? Let's start with some basic stuff. The sheer scale and complexity of this phenomenon. Bauer and Troyerly claimed to have created hundreds of crop circles starting in the late 70s. However, many researchers who had been studying

Starting point is 00:35:15 the phenomenon long before 1991 when they came forward, found this claim a little hard to swallow. Could two men, alone, working only at night, really have created all the formations that had been appearing, especially as those formations began to increase in size, complexity and geographic spread throughout the 80s? Keep in mind, these two boys, Bauer and Trolley, their team never grew. It was just the two guys.

Starting point is 00:35:37 The two of them. Moreover, some of these things appeared overnight when there was only four hours of darkness due to the season, including the Julia arrangement. But they looked like ones exactly like ones in the same art style as the ones that they did make. Then when you go into their crop circles, while above truly do look like the other crop circles that have, that have come around when measured from the inside is wholly imperfect.

Starting point is 00:36:05 When they took one crop circle and remade it and it's one of the ones that was recorded. Now the crop circle that they remade their crops in that one, the reeds had not been destroyed. They were bent and swirled in an organized pattern. The ones that Charlie and Bauer do break the plant every time because it's a wooden plank on it and you will see the snapping of where they snap at the bottom. They also don't arrange any of their crops in any sort of like neat pattern unlike the ones that are being referred to as what I would consider quote-unquote real or true crop circles.

Starting point is 00:36:46 Besides that you could simply look at the physicality of it all. Now one of the great things is we have these guys on camera and we actually have them creating the crop circle. And after about an hour of them into it, the two of them are fucking exhausted. And they only have about four hours to make the crop circle and they weren't even close to halfway done

Starting point is 00:37:04 by the time they were done. And in fact, didn't even finish the crop circle on they weren't even close to halfway done by the time they were done and in fact Didn't even finish the crop circle on the camera because they were just like it's good enough essentially and didn't even finish it So that alone is on a basic level doesn't really kind of make any sense Many of the formations span hundreds of feet and incorporated intricate geometric patterns that would have required meticulous not only planning but execution. Were they part-time hoaxers or was this like the full-time job that they claimed? The logistics alone were crazy and furthermore consider the precision involved with many of the crop circles. While Bauer and Chorley demonstrated they could create relatively simple and even somewhat complex crop circles with their methods, many

Starting point is 00:37:44 crop circles exhibited a level of accuracy that seemed to defy their simple tools. The lines were often in real crop circles perfectly straight, the circles perfectly round, the angles within complex geometric patterns remarkably precise. Could such precision really be achieved with planks, ropes, and a wire that's dangling from their hat? Well, when they measured and studied their crop circles, the answer was no. None of them had perfect circles, perfect lines, and the crops were all destroyed in a haphazard fashion. Another point of contention is the condition of the crops as we talked about.

Starting point is 00:38:22 While flattened crops, obviously a key characteristic detailed examination of numerous circles reveal the stalks were often not broken but bent at the node and sometimes even in turn you can go look at pictures this is a crazy one the crops themselves are woven like braids together that go all along the crop circle itself. Moreover, the plants weren't harmed. After a few days, these plants that were bent would eventually rise up back to their normal position, not killing the plant whatsoever. Researchers who studied the affected plants also noted that the stalks appeared to have been subjected to a sudden but

Starting point is 00:39:02 intense burst of heat or energy that caused them to soften and bend without breaking. And this observation led to speculation about the possible involvement of some kind of microwave or electromagnetic radiation because some of the other plants as well burst from the inside in a fashion that is only achievable by that kind of heat. They popped like popcorn for whatever reason and that can only be done if a heat is being applied to them as scientists noted. Neither Chorley nor Bauer ever claimed to use any technology more than just ropes or boards and these things do

Starting point is 00:39:41 not match even remotely what these two dudes have done. Bower and Chorley claimed responsibility for so many of the early simpler formations, particularly those around Wiltshire. But are they realistically able to be responsible for all of these crop circles that are happening everywhere? They claimed hundreds of them over the course of two or three decades was them. So Occam's Razor, right? What if they're just like the heroes,

Starting point is 00:40:05 like what if they like got it started, right? Like they were the ones that started the movement. Everybody was into it. And then they were all collaborating. Maybe like, imagine like 600 people come out or something like that. Let's, I mean, I know it's not that, but let's say it was. Well, they've always, always been stayed to is only the two of them. They never had a team. Now, circle makers, you know, different thing, but even their process doesn't require heating things up either. They're not heating up the plants and bending them or anything like that.

Starting point is 00:40:34 Then obviously we can always look at their, the other thing to keep in mind too is like, yeah, this is happening around the world. Canada, Australia, Japan, US, it's happening everywhere. Obviously then there's the other part which is much more subjective, kind of what their motivation was. As they claim to have started as pranksters, their continued involvement for over a decade,

Starting point is 00:40:51 especially as the formations became more complex and demanding, started raising more questions and they would always come out with a new, more elaborate excuse as to how they achieved that particularly even more complex, even bigger crop circle. And yeah, their bigger crop circle. And yeah, their stories were entertaining, but there's a certain depth that fails to fully account for the sheer dedication and effort required for two dudes to do all of these things that they said they did. But there is without a doubt that they made a lot of them. Absolutely. They showed how they did it. They can, There's 100 percent like they made a bunch.

Starting point is 00:41:25 The other thing that can't be accounted for is what's known as ghost imprints for some of these circles. After the crop is kind of pops back up and it's harvested, the imprint of the circle is still there and even can remain up to two years after with the crops themselves being slightly different color. You can see bits and pieces of the circle. You could just see it without flying. Yeah, as a residual image essentially of it from the sky you can see in they're called ghost imprints. Now one of the other things is that making a crop circle

Starting point is 00:41:56 means getting into the field itself which brings us to the curious case of literally missing footprints and tracks. Many crop circle formations, especially the complex ones, were notable for the absence of any visible tracks leading out to or in from the design. The humans were creating these formations, if humans rather, were creating these formations by walking through the fields with planks. How did they avoid leaving a trail? Particularly in damp or muddy conditions when a lot of these showed up during storms overnight, particularly the one that happened over a four hour period near Stonehenge. Jorlien Bauer had a rather unbelievable answer to this though. They explained how they were able to get into the field and get out without leaving any tracks. What do you think their explanation is?

Starting point is 00:42:41 Mud moves. I'll give you a moment to guess. Mud moves because it's wet. Mud moves because it's wet, okay. Man. Barefoot. Neither, both would be better explanations than what they gave. Their explanation was they sometimes pole vaulted.

Starting point is 00:43:00 What? Into the field and then out of it, leaping over the standing crops to avoid leaving footprints in their 60s. Pretty funny. While they're struggling after an hour of making these. You know what? I watched the man who was 80 moving to an apartment by himself today. So that's fair. I'm going to say it's possible, but that's insane. Like out of all the ones that it's it sounds as unlikely as an alien landed and gassed up a field.

Starting point is 00:43:26 Dude, I want you to think about that. Like, yes, it is still possible, highly improbable. But just imagine trying to like pole vault to the center of a large, complex formation at night with carrying planks and ropes. You have to remember they're carrying, they're pole vaulting with gear on them without damaging the surrounding crops in the process or making a sound the entire time, then creating the whole circle, getting the tools back on you and pole vaulting out before the sun comes up.

Starting point is 00:43:54 And he's looking insane sounding. Yeah, that's huge. It's conceivable. It's conceivable. Like it has like the vibe of like a something that people would do in the 30s. And we'd just be like, that's so crazy that they did that. But at the same time, I hear you at the same time. And some of the ones that they gave this excuse for, they were, there were crop circles that had that were surrounded by huge ditches that they would have had to pull vault over just to get to the area where the field

Starting point is 00:44:25 was. Like it's just insane. It's not to say that they didn't maybe they did. I don't want to, I don't want to, you know, I hate to be that guy's like that's dumb. It's just, I don't know. It doesn't seem it seems ridiculous. Yeah. And again, they're like in their fifties and sixties when they're saying they're doing

Starting point is 00:44:39 this. So while Bauer and Chorley's confession initially seemed to solve the crop circle mystery, their claims of responsibility for the entire phenomenon quickly began to crumble under scrutiny the longer it went on and the more they tried to claim. And the sheer scale, complexity, and then global spread of the formations combined with all this stuff really just made the pole vaulting excuse amazing. I just like cherry on top. But it's pretty funny.

Starting point is 00:45:02 Like I said, Bauer and Chorley weren't responsible for all the crop circles. This is where we talk a little bit more about John Lundberg, the self-proclaimed land artist and leader of the circle makers. Now, he presented this far more sophisticated debunking narrative. He again, with all the making ads and stuff. But one of the, when you take a closer look at Lundberg himself, it reveals a far more complex and kind of unsettling picture of who he might be. One that suggests, and I kid you not, a connection to intelligence agencies that raises questions about the true extent of involvement in the phenomenon.

Starting point is 00:45:39 And this is the part where my episode went, Oh, this is going to be a long one, because paperwork and investigations have been done about this guy way back in the day that go and like who he made. It's crazy. So let's talk about it. One of the more glaring oddities about Lungbird's living situation was that he resided for a long time at one point in an apartment that is directly adjacent to what was then known MI5 headquarters in London.

Starting point is 00:46:06 He lived connected to the British intelligence agency. Connected to it? Correct. Let me get to it. This wasn't even like he doesn't have to go outside. I don't know if there was doors that like led from his apartment building to their building, but he could go outside, walk a building over on the sidewalk and then go in like that kind of thing.

Starting point is 00:46:24 Moreover, this building, this apartment building wasn on the sidewalk and then go in like that kind of thing. Moreover, this building is apartment building wasn't an ordinary apartment building. According to reports, the building itself isn't listed as an apartment building on any official records. It doesn't officially exist as apartment building and furthermore there were only four apartments within the building that were supposedly to occupied and to top it all off, his rent was being subsidized by the British government.

Starting point is 00:46:49 So why was he there? I don't know. Like is that in London? London. He's not there anymore. That was in the that was in the early 2000 to 2004 or five somewhere around there. Like that's when this was his website, even though he was in the early 2000 to 2004 or five, somewhere around there. That's when this was.

Starting point is 00:47:06 His website, even though he was in London, was based out in a server in Pittsburgh in the early 2000s, not like now. How rare is that? I mean, maybe it was cheaper, maybe it was easier to access. Maybe, I don't know. But the whole, he wasn't paying for it, he was for his fucking apartment.

Starting point is 00:47:23 And he was just living next to MI5. But this wouldn't be anything you knew until much later on. And we have the Internet and we like in a much more broader depth and we can actually like do this kind of investigation. The implications are fucking weird. But again, it's all circumstantial, of course. Further fueling the suspicions, however, is on the circle maker's website and keywords that are embedded within the website itselfions, however, is on the circle maker's website and keywords that are embedded

Starting point is 00:47:45 within the website itself, including CIA, MI5, and most notably a name, Jim Schneeble. What? Jim Schneeble. Hello, this is Ned Schneeble. Ned Schneeble and Jim Schneeble. This guy is an American writer who is known for his investigations, not only to the crap circle and phenomenon,

Starting point is 00:48:09 but his contacts within the U.S. intelligence agency and army and his documented research within their secret fucking programs like Stargate, which was the the remote viewing one from the 80s. This there's actually a document out there. I have a link to it.

Starting point is 00:48:24 But basically it's called the it's a memorandum. Do I actually a document out there. I have a link to it, but basically it's called the it's a memorandum. Do I actually have it open right now? You can go, you don't have to read it right now, but it's long. You can just see it's one of my sources here. Sure. It's right out of the CIA's website. So it's not particularly anything, but this is a memorandum that was written by a man by Joseph McGonigal. Oh my God. He was associated with the US government Stargate program and it details basically his interactions with Jim Schnabel, who was working on a document at the time about remote viewing for British, for the British, for British television. The memo, this memo you're reading is from 1995, but the relief got released by FOIA

Starting point is 00:49:03 in 2000, and this was originally marked as K classification, which is considered sensitive, but not like highly classified. The memo was written during a period, again, during this remote viewing time. It talks about the US government's involvement in psychic research. McGonagall expresses, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc, Mc McGonagall expresses his reluctance to even be involved with Schnebel. He's worried. I read through the whole thing.

Starting point is 00:49:29 He was basically worried that Schnebel was going to make this whole thing sensational and have political overtones to it. Basically, Schnebel was bugging this guy to interview him about the remote viewing thing that was happening at the Monroe Institute where McMonigal was going to go give a presentation for at the Monroe Institute through that entire there's a bunch of names row in a bunch of names are redacted in this memo that we will never know the only ones that we have are McMonigal's and Schnebel's and he's pre contacts him like six, seven, eight times. Eventually, he's like, fine, I'll talk to you.

Starting point is 00:50:09 And he gets revealed. He learns that Schneibel actually knew pretty much everything he was going to ask already. Like he had contacts that he wasn't aware of. And he was asking a bunch of things. And he and Shable showed up showed up at McMonigals like presentation. And they specifically talk about the remote viewing program. And Schnebel supposedly in this memo talks about how he was at one of the remote viewing exercises the government was doing and even has video from it from 1983 when they were doing it.

Starting point is 00:50:41 And Schnebel talks about that in the memo here that that has anyone seen the video? No, he never gave it to anybody. No, that's again. All right. Yes. Of course not. Of course not. Just want to put that out there. Of course. A redacted individual in this is accused of collaborating with schnapple, providing him with a film clip of mcmonagle during doing an experimental remote viewing mcmonagle.Monigal believes he had a video clip of McMonigal himself doing the remote viewing in 1983. But we don't have physical evidence of it existing.

Starting point is 00:51:12 And McMonigal essentially expresses his concern that if the film clip is used, it could be very revealing and add to sensationalism that they do not want. They don't want this thing blowing up and getting a spotlight on them essentially. Fucking Dr. Harold Puthoff is mentioned in here, names that we're going to be hearing in the future.

Starting point is 00:51:32 Fort Meade, which is where these remote viewing exercises within the military were taking place. It's fascinating. And this is one of those ones I had to go flake. When I was looking up names, this thing was like, I had to dig for this. And to find it is so, it's so interesting that the Monroe Institute fucking is attached to this knowing where we're gonna be

Starting point is 00:51:50 going in the near future. It's fucking weird. And this guy's name, Gin Schnabel, is connected as one of the keywords embedded within the crop, within the Circle Makers website, alongside CIA, MI5, and then CropCircles and other things that are like in its, it's so, I don't know, and there's no reason why it's all obviously just kind of potentially coincidental.

Starting point is 00:52:12 Circumstantial is the word I'm looking for. Regardless, it all casts weird doubt on Lundberg. The fact that he's living in an apartment that's not able to be, like, there's no paperwork for it, it was being paid for. It's all weird and points people to this idea of PsyOps, which is something that happens like a our intelligence communities do actively engage in it and it made me dig up another CIA memorandum talking specifically about how there

Starting point is 00:52:38 are certain people within the news that they want to target and get to so they can make sure that they're not spouting things that the intelligence agency doesn't want them to be spouting. Not about UFOs, just like in general, like how we engage public through the news kind of thing. And then the last bit of this weird bit with Lundberg is the issue of funding. This is before he was like an ad mogul guy doing this stuff. While the circle makers did undertake some commercial projects, it's doubtful that these alone would have sustained their operations given the scale and complexity that

Starting point is 00:53:08 these guys are purporting to be doing. Who was funding their work? Was there a hidden source of income perhaps? Well, on their own website, there's an unsatisfying answer from January 1st, 2005, from none other than Lundberg himself. Alex, you can go ahead and read this quote for us. It's very quick. You'd be surprised how expensive running a successful website can be. Don't panic. We're not going to ask you for money. Our retainer from sources we'd rather not disclose

Starting point is 00:53:35 has kept our virtual head above water. That's from John Lundberg himself on the website in 2005. Who who is that? Like, why? Like what I'm saying is like, if he's if he's like writing about this for public to read, why would he do that? I don't know. Was there was there speculation? Yeah, I don't know. Things that don't make

Starting point is 00:53:55 sense there. Was there speculation? Was there speculation going on at the time? Not not anything crazy. This isn't 2005. So we're well past like Charles like Borley and all that shit. Like we're into the point where it doesn't really matter as much anymore. Like the the crop circle, I think narrative has already taken root as to it being manmade. I don't know why.

Starting point is 00:54:18 But what about the narrative of him being a government stooge? See, that shit that's not out there because you have to dig for paperwork that is fucking hard to find. So it's like not really out there all that much. It's just like only a couple of sources I used had even mentioned it, which caused me to go digging, which caused me to find this memo that connects like all this other shit.

Starting point is 00:54:40 It's there's not much out there and you really have to look. Again, it's also important to me to say it's important to emphasize that these are all allegations and inferences like nothing of this is like we can't point at this as definite information of one thing or another. They are just significant enough to cast doubt on the idea that Lundberg and the circle makers were just independent artists doing their own thing. Their story, rather than resolving the mystery of crop circles, honestly just opens up a whole new fucking can of worms when you start to look. It hints

Starting point is 00:55:08 at a possible level of manipulation or control that goes to seeding this idea of hoaxing and debunking crop circles. It's weird. But we're going to, with that, we're going to move past the debunking stage and move into the next thing. Just the believing stage. Well, I wouldn't say the believing stage, but we've seen I'd say we. What is the next thing then? What do you mean? I'd say we've seen the well, we're going to talk about some of the crop circles very specifically, some of the weird aspects about them.

Starting point is 00:55:39 We've seen, I'd say the cracks in the case close narrative for sure. But let's turn our attention to the evidence that suggested crop circle phenomenons are just way more complex, way more intriguing than the debunkers would have us believe. One of the more compelling arguments against the purely man-made explanation lies in the anomalies found within crop circles themselves, particularly in the affected plants. Now we'll go into details about this stuff. In numerous formations, researchers documented that the crop stalks are not simply broken, but bent at the nodes, often at 90-degree angles. This bending, often observed close to the ground,

Starting point is 00:56:13 appears to occur without any visible damage to the stalks exterior. Furthermore, these bent stalks are sometimes interwoven or braided together in intricate patterns that would be very difficult to do overnight if not impossible, especially if you're just pressing down on them with planks. Microscopic analysis of plants from within the crop circles has revealed even more curious anomalies. Studies have shown changes in the plant's cellular structure such as elongated apical nodes and expulsion cavities in the stem as if the plants had been subjected to a sudden but intense burst of heat or energy.

Starting point is 00:56:50 Some, the popcorn thing, correct. Some researchers have likened these effects to those that would be produced by microwave radiation. This is a far cry from the mechanical force of a board or a roller that the crop circles makers say they use. How could hoaxers working in the dark with simple tools achieve this kind of precise localized alterations within the plants internal structures? I couldn't tell you. Then there are the electromagnetic anomalies, reports of compasses spinning wildly, malfunctioning electronic equipment,

Starting point is 00:57:21 drained batteries, and even strange humming sounds within crop circles are not in common. While these reports are often anecdotal, they're numerous. When you say report, what do you mean? Yeah, people say that when they go in there. There is video footage of, so there is, we'll get to it. We're going to get to something where we do have video footage of. Then we have the, we already talked about the phenomenon of ghost imprints. In some cases, faint but visible traces of crop circle designs have been observed reappearing the same location in subsequent years, even after the field has been plowed, reseeded, and harvested.

Starting point is 00:57:53 These ghost imprints suggest the creation of the circle may have been a more lasting change to the soil or the growth patterns of the plants, a change that goes far beyond just superficial breaking of the stems. And change that goes far beyond just superficial breaking of the stems. And then you've got the lingering traces of radiation. While not present in all formations, these elevated radiation levels, however slight, are difficult to explain in terms of conventional hoaxing. Let's not also forget, again, as we talked about, the sheer complexity in size.

Starting point is 00:58:21 In 1996, the Julia set formation at Stonehenge, a fractal design of 149 circles appearing in a 45 minute window remains a prime example of a formation that defies easy explanation. 45 minutes? For real? Yeah. What are on either side of that window? Like why is that the window? It's, I think it's the, I don't have to, hang. Hang on. We're going to get let me get we'll get there.

Starting point is 00:58:46 I think it's the one with the storm where there was a security guard there and he was only gone for a little bit before he would have come back. OK, do you have a picture of it? Oh, yeah. The Julia formation, 100 percent Julia. That's it. Stonehenge. So a lot of the near Stonehenge, near Stonehenge. We get yourself having been there. Let me get you a closer look. Having been there, it's mostly fields.

Starting point is 00:59:07 I know that area well. There's not much sheep. This is the... Ah, yes. This one is very famous. Yes. One of the more famous ones out there. Yes.

Starting point is 00:59:20 It's a spiral design of multiple circles and there's circles on circles. Very intricate. Yes. Yeah. Is that people? And this popped up overnight. And it's one of the ones where the perfect circles, is that people? I don't know in that particular screenshot, maybe it's possible. So beyond, so that's just one of them that like we'll get to more detail there. But the other one is another piece of anecdotal evidence involves Dr. Anne Morrell who reportedly had a goiter which is an enlarged thyroid. She went into the crop circle in Alton Barnes Wiltshire England in 1990. This formation was known as the Altona Barnes formation that and the pictogram that appeared to have a mathematical concept behind it. We'll talk about that a little

Starting point is 01:00:06 bit, but basically what she went in and she went into this crop circle and spend some time within the formation after time out. You're not about to say that her goiter disappeared. No, it didn't disappear. It didn't disappear. What it did always increased in size by approximately 40%. Holy cow. Still roughly roughly on the same level but okay. Yeah, sure. All of that brings us next to Project Blackbird. Have you ever heard of Project Blackbird?

Starting point is 01:00:33 I have not heard of Project Blackbird. So, Project Blackbird was a publicly acknowledged investigation into the crop circle phenomenon spearheaded by researchers, Colin Andrews and Busty Taylor, among a bunch of others. I know it's a great name. Busty Taylor. Yeah, I love it dude.

Starting point is 01:00:49 It's so good. Busty Taylor. So this was Colin Andrews. The whole plan was they were going to stake out an area where in a basically fucking just watch for crop circles and hopefully catch it on camera. This was going to Colin Andrews would appear on the BBC News every night for three weeks reporting on what they found if anything at all while they monitored for crop circles and I think it was it was Wilfershire. It was launched in response to the hoax, the claimed hoax of the

Starting point is 01:01:18 Oliver's Castle video which we'll also get to with the stated goal of conducting a scientific vigil to try and capture the creation of a genuine crop circle on Film however the term project blackbird also refers to a more speculative Unconfirmed theory that is proposed by Colin Andrews himself now if you're looking for this online There are very little clips on YouTube But you can find a few clips of operation blackbird day one from the news of Colin Andrews being introduced by the news anchor and being brought on this all went down on TV the operation involved basically secret monitoring involved secret monitoring of crop circle sites they're deploying

Starting point is 01:01:59 advanced surveillance equipment and even hopefully catching all this on film while the military blocked off entrances to this so people couldn't come in. Like that was like we're going to watch the ship for three weeks. We're going to figure this shit out. Every attempt was made to see if these things would pop up and if these things were a genuine intelligence behind them or if it really was a hoax narrative. The 1996 news clip that I'll actually give you a link to the it's a nine minute news clip.

Starting point is 01:02:31 Don't watch it now. But there is a news clip from this. There you are. Do you want us to describe it in any way or no, no, no, I'm giving you there. We're going to I'm going to talk about if you ever want to look at it after they're like in depth. They got the Yeah, you can watch it for a couple of looking at a couple they're showing like him on the ground doing a crop circle with the planks

Starting point is 01:02:53 They are there's a lot of b-roll and it's a whole very nice Yeah, and like I said, there's not much out there about this other than this So day one ended up being pretty much a nothing burger, nothing happened. They were just continuing to do their own thing. But it was on day two of this public facing operation Blackbird that a crop circle did indeed appear.

Starting point is 01:03:21 The next morning, it was relatively simple. The next morning they went to go check it out. It was relatively simple and designed to this, but shit, I lost his name. I forgot his name. Colin Andrews, there we go. Colin Andrews said the night of, the first night that he was there,

Starting point is 01:03:38 he was woken up by them just saying, somebody just exclaiming a crop circle had appeared, but we wouldn't be able to go look at it until daytime when there was light. So they went out there in the daytime to go check out what this supposed crop circle that popped up was. And when they got there, they saw what they saw was a relatively simple design that was easily anybody could have made. But moreover, at the center of the circle, someone had left a cardboard astrology chart, seemingly making fun of what was happening. But here's the twist.

Starting point is 01:04:13 This ended, this essentially ended Project Blackbird then and there. It was done. Right. Everybody was like, okay. Here's the twist. The area was supposed to have been under one military like blocking out entrances, but two 24 7 surveillance. So if they had advanced monitoring equipment rolling all night and all day, why isn't there footage of anybody doing this? And if then here's the thing, if you ask about it, you know, one can get their hands on the footage.

Starting point is 01:04:43 I was about to say, have they? No, no one's given. They've not given out the given the footage to anybody. That seems like maybe they weren't 24, 7, then that or they do is just them pulling a prank or they captured a UFO on film and they don't want people to know. Well, adding another layer to the mystery. Yeah. The rumor was that this public facing project Blackbird was a public

Starting point is 01:05:07 front for the actual operation Blackbird that was happening miles away in a conjunct effort with the UK and the US military monitoring an area that they had intel, maybe a hotspot for crop circles. And then that night one happened right then and there. And after they got that, they sent the word to just end the public Project Blackbird thing and just it was done in a day. There's no paperwork for this. This comes from Colin Andrews himself. What he believes is the case after he says he's done his research, but a lot of his evidence is circumstantial, not really like holding a ton of weight.

Starting point is 01:05:48 I don't really know where I stand on that, but just to kind of put it out there, there is a theory that that is what happened. I think there's some unsaid insider stuff going on with a lot of these. That has to be the case. Yes, there's no doubt that there's a lot of insider stuff. That's the only explanation, you know?

Starting point is 01:06:03 Yeah, I agree. But we're going to go. I mentioned the Oliver's Castle video as well. And I want to talk about that next the Oliver's Castle a video. You may recognize it when you see it comes from August in 1996. This video supposedly captured by by a man by the name of John Wabe near an ancient hill for sent shockwaves through the crop circle and community the footage reportedly filmed in the early morning after hours after he was camping,

Starting point is 01:06:28 showed four luminous balls of light moving in the sky above a field. Then in a matter of seconds, a crop circle is formed beneath them. It's designed materializing in the crops as if etched in by an invisible hand. And the next morning he was actually in the local pub showing people the video he caught. It's on like an old-school 1996 like camera and what's

Starting point is 01:06:49 interesting keep in mind this is the era of Mars Attacks CGI like where you know CGI is around it is it is kind of here but keep in mind how he would have to account for the wobbling of the camera while he's holding it and tracking of the orbs and stuff. So here's the original footage as it was presented. So it's like literally like two little orbs flying over the grass or whatever. And then it's like, I don't wanna like be cynical, but like it looks like literally like computer graphics

Starting point is 01:07:21 of grass just like appearing in the formation. Like it looks like literally like a force wave is like flattening them down. What's interesting is that just design wise, right? So it's two orbs and they're flowing around in sort of a circular formation, one kind of following the other. But the design that appears seems to have no real, like the position of the orbs does not seem to matter to the design that forms below. Like parts where the orbs are not near it form at the exact same rate as when the orb is above it. Also, the big circle in the middle sort of forms the same time as the little circle. Like there is no rhyme and reason. It just

Starting point is 01:08:06 appears. It smells. It smells a little bit like CG. But what year is it from 1996? So you got to count for he would have to account for the frame moving up and down and like from him shaking and adjusting. He'd have to hand track that shit. We're not talking about any we don't DVDs is still VHS film that he has to you know to manually edit and stuff. Not impossible, but we'll get to it. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Starting point is 01:08:30 It almost looks hand animated, because it's literally like a white ball flying around. And then they just do, if you had two things, right, and you just sort of cut a little hole in the top version that had no field on it, and you just slowly animated it in, you could fake it. Yeah, sure.

Starting point is 01:08:49 You know, it's not impossible, right? So this video's release caused an immediate sensation. If this was a genuine video, it would be proof that at least some crop circles were being created by a force or an intelligence beyond what our current understanding of physics and science would be. And prominent researchers like Colin Andrews and Pat Delgado were initially impressed believing

Starting point is 01:09:10 the footage to be authentic. The involvement then of the BBC, who were reportedly present during the subsequent investigation, added further weight to the video's credibility. The Operation Blackbird team was there and actively investigating. The day after the video was captured, adding fuel to the fire. A new crop circle was indeed discovered in Oliver's castle in the spot. I have a picture of that for you.

Starting point is 01:09:35 Crazy. I kind of love that. That's fun. Okay. This one looks like a clock from the Brady Bunch house. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:09:44 You know what? That's a phenomenal description of it. But I mean, it is. The same one. What appears in that footage. Yep. This formation, a series of five circles connected by pathways, seemed to corroborate the events depicted in the video.

Starting point is 01:09:58 This formation seemed so far to be genuine. And the Oliver's Castle incident, as it came to be known, became a focal point for those who believed that crop circles were not all manmade. The video, if authentic, provided compelling visual evidence of a phenomenon that defied conventional explanation. This video, with its luminous balls of light, instantaneous crop formation initially seemed

Starting point is 01:10:20 to be a smoking gun that enthusiasts had been waiting for. However, the narrative took a very dramatic turn when John Wabe, the man who claimed to have filmed the video, confessed that it was a hoax a few days later. Now, what's fascinating about this is that just the video was hoax. Yeah. So what's fascinating about this is he comes out later and says it. However, he also states that he was a special effects artist and that he created this entire scene using computer animation. But I cannot nor can anybody

Starting point is 01:10:56 find this man's company even find that he really like much that he existed and what work he ended up doing. much that he existed and what work he ended up doing. And Wade claimed he created the whole video to demonstrate to people how even experienced researchers could be fooled. He cited his expertise in special effects, which created the balls of light informing the crop. He goes on to talk about like, you know,

Starting point is 01:11:19 how he goes about to do it. Here's the thing, when asked for the raw footage, when asked for to see all of this stuff, every time he refused. He would not show people the video footage and the effects and all that shit that he did. Just said that it was. He just said it was. And he talked about how he would do it. And there's a bit of an interview out there with him where he shows him sitting in front of a computer.

Starting point is 01:11:42 But what he does in the 40s, he's like, all you got to do is take a field and then take an image and lay it on top and then fade it in and fade it out. But it's about three seconds of video footage. The camera is not moving and he just looks like he's like he's like using basically transparency on the crop circle and just being like we we we we on it and that's it. That's all we have.

Starting point is 01:12:03 We don't have any won't give us any of the original footage It's never been made available for independent analysis either Just complete lack of of any way to get it moreover That people say the skill level experts visual experts visual effects experts say The skill level for him would have to be insanely high. The camera wobble, the flight path smoothness, some argue that the special effects in the video, even considering the technology in 1996, was just, it was incredible work just to keep it, not because it was hard to make a ball of light, but it's hard to make the ball of light move and shaky footage and keep a

Starting point is 01:12:40 trajectory and not, without it becoming obvious. I mean, have you guys ever tried to like manually do tracking animation and like Premiere Pro? It's not. It's no matter how bad like you good you think it when you see it play through. It's like at the same time. That is how all animation was done. Yeah, at the time on until recently, you know, like, you know,

Starting point is 01:13:02 so I but that's what I'm saying is like it looks the amount that the way the balls move in conjunction with the camera wobble on stuff is like perfection. And he would have had to be perfect to do it. And he refuses to let anybody see like the raw footage. We're like, you know, that's what, you know, whatever. So that does look CG though, I will say possible CG always going to have that. But that's the Oliver's Castle incident in video worth having in your pocket.

Starting point is 01:13:28 Now let's go back to the 70s for a minute and talk about the Arecibo message. I don't know if you know what the Arecibo message is, but on November 16th, 1974, a radio message was transmitted from the Arecibo Observatory in Puerto Rico. This message was conceived by a team led by Dr. Frank Drake, who was famous for the Drake equation which estimates the probability of extraterrestrial life alongside Carl Sagan, who these were the humanities. This was going to be humanity's first deliberate attempt to communicate our existence and some basic information about ourselves to a potential extraterrestrial civilization.

Starting point is 01:14:06 The message was aimed at the globular star cluster Messier 13, also known as the Hercules cluster. This is located about 25,000 light years from Earth and it was chosen because it contains a high density of stars somewhere around 300,000, increasing the probability, however slight it may be, that one of those stars might harbor a planet with intelligent life. The message was sent at a frequency of 2380 MHz and the transmission lasted for 169 seconds, just under three minutes. The message was a binary code consisting of 1679 bits of information.

Starting point is 01:14:47 This number 1679 was chosen because it is the product of two prime numbers 23 and 73, which could suggest to a potential recipient that the message should be arranged in a grid of 23 columns and 73 rows. I'm going to give you a picture of this thing, unless you've already picked it up. But I will show you've already picked it up. But I will show you the human one right here. Interesting, interesting, interesting. Okay, where is it? So I'm linking right now. Oh no, it's not there.

Starting point is 01:15:13 Okay, there it is. There you go. Yeah, this is the one. It looks like it's like Atari. Like it literally looks. What are you looking at? Like I'll just give you an explanation. It looks like an Atari graphic.

Starting point is 01:15:23 Yeah, AirDor. The white dots at the top are 1 through 10. The purple symbol in the bottom is the mathematical position for carbon, where carbon-based life forms. Basically, that's what our base to our DNA is. That is, I think, if I remember correctly, the four chemical compounds that make up the nucleotides of the DNA is underneath. And the blue like weird swirls, that's like the DNA helix with the white. Everything is numbered to show like what we are, what we're based on. That purple thing at the bottom is supposed to represent the Arecibo satellite that sent the message. And this little yellow line is our solar system with

Starting point is 01:16:02 the third planet sticking up a little bit to show we're on that. That's us. Yeah. That's us right there. So it's really cool. This is one of those ones that I've known about for a while. It's just like one of those neat ones that we like codes that we sent out. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:16:16 So like I said, one to 10 simple binary, the atomic numbers of hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, and phosphorus, the elements considered essential for life as we understand it, DNA components, formulas for sugars and bases that make up the DNA, our structure, the human figure, our solar system, an Arecibo telescope. And this was going to take about, because how far away it was, it would take about 25,000 years for this thing to hopefully arrive and then who knows when we would get a message back. Wait. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. No way. It would just be 25,000. It's 25,000 light years away. So, wouldn't that be 25,000 years to get

Starting point is 01:16:56 there? Yeah, this is at the speed of light and they're not blasting this at the speed of light. That's fair. This would take a long time. Okay, hang on, hang on. 25,000 light years. How long radio frequency? Let's kind of find out the speed of radio. A radio frequency traveling 25,000 light years would take 25,000 years to reach its destination as radio waves travel at the speed of light.

Starting point is 01:17:19 Radio waves travel at the speed of light. Is that true? Do they? Let's find out. Let's see. Yes, radio waves travel at the speed of light as they that true? Do they? Let's find out. I see. Yes. Radio waves travel the speed of light as they are a type of electromagnetic radiation. And all electromagnetic radiation travels at the speed of light in a vacuum, which is approximately 300000 kilometers per second.

Starting point is 01:17:33 You learn something new every day. Look at that. Yes. Science in an alien episode. You were right. What a fool I am. Yeah. So it should take 25000 years for the message to get there. And then if a message was sent back immediately, 25,000 more years to get back to us. If of course they're using radio waves and pick up on our radio waves, which is a very, you know, uh, is an assumption, but we would receive a reply. Not 25,000 years, not 50,000 years later, but 27 years later,

Starting point is 01:18:01 27 minutes later. 27 years later. 27 minutes later. Did we? Did we? Hang on, hang on, hang on. So it's important to remember that us sending this message was symbolic. It wasn't like we were going to, like, we weren't going to expect aliens to respond. So what was known as the Chibolton Reply in 2001 appeared. This appeared in a wheat field overnight next to the

Starting point is 01:18:25 Chebolten radio telescope structured remarkably similar to the original Arecibo message suggesting that this might be a deliberate response. I'm going to get you the response. They sent this? That appeared overnight next to a radio telescope in in the same fashion as extremely precise crop circles that we've discussed before have where the crops weren't damaged and it was it was genuinely like a well made message. This whole thing overnight. Yep. It looks it looks almost the same.

Starting point is 01:19:02 It looks the Are almost the same. It does. The Arecibo message, just like the Arecibo message, this thing used a very straightforward binary representation. Math is a should be a universal language after all. The binary code for the numbers was identical to the original message. The listed atomic numbers for this one were hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, and phosphorus. For this one where hydrogen carbon nitrogen oxygen and phosphorus The Chebolten reply included the same elements, but also added silicon 14 this has been Interpreted as suggesting that if this is coming from another life form that they are potentially a silicon based

Starting point is 01:19:38 Life form as opposed to a carbon based life form provided. It also provided the chemical this section based life form. It also provided the chemical, this section with the chemical formulas had several differences from ours. Although the exact interpretation is debated, some people believe or some researchers believe rather these changes indicate an altered DNA structure or different building blocks for genetic material. While we showed a double helix DNA, their double helix was modified. You can see on the right hand side, it had one extra strand, which is the most striking differences between what ours were and what theirs were. Ours depicted the stick figure representation and so did theirs with what you would consider

Starting point is 01:20:18 an Atari gray, right? That's pretty much exactly what that is. We showed where we were and their solar system showed the third planet was not highlighted, but instead the fifth planet appeared larger and offset. And there were changes to the fourth and sixth planets. You can see the, the one in the back that's lifted. Don't even know if it's a planet. It's like maybe like, it's like a, my brain's like explosion, but it could just be like, it's not a dot's a planet. It's like maybe like it's like a what I got. My brain's like explosion, but it could just be like, it's not a doc representing a planet. It's a four dots in a cross formation with the center. That's just like, who knows what it is, but

Starting point is 01:20:53 it's definitely a different formation of things. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Um, now where, where our radio telescope was, there's is completely, nobody knows what this is. It's complex weird geometric design But what's interesting about it is that it resembled a crop circle that appeared in the year 2000 that looked identical To this on this crop circle

Starting point is 01:21:22 Uh, let me get you that crop circle here. While I go looking for this, thoughts, Jesse looks perplexed, perhaps even bemused. It almost seems too good to be true. You know, the idea that we put a thing out and then instead of waiting 25,000 years, we only waited so long.

Starting point is 01:21:43 And a fucking guy comes in 27 years. Yeah. A guy comes in and it's like the same, just like a almost one-to-one replication, which is perfect. Exactly. With an like comically accurate alien, like movie alien gray, with a thing at the bottom that is very similar to a crop circle that exists. Like it's just too perfect, right? Perfect. Yeah. I'm gonna get you a picture of the crop circle. Here's what it looks like. I mean, yeah, it does look very similar. It's one of the ones within that crop circle had the

Starting point is 01:22:22 bent reed not destroyed a perfect circles, perfect measurements all the way out. A lot of these crop circles are very fractal in nature which could you know map fractals are a visual representation of math. I mean I understand understandable but I guess then the question becomes these are aliens right who have These are aliens, right? Who have, I'm supposing here, these are aliens who have come and after 20 some years, they detected this message, either it was blasted out in their direction,

Starting point is 01:22:56 they were traveling through space and saw it. But if that's the case, then wouldn't they have noticed it earlier since they're on our world dropping, you know, designs and fields of wheat? Um, wouldn't they pick it up earlier? Why would it take so long to respond? More importantly, like what is, you know, that's an excellent fucking question. What does the design mean? If they're like, it's very important. So important that we put it in our reply it looks like I mean we're literally here to try it with it and we're not

Starting point is 01:23:28 trying to explain why deal that seems not damaging the crops the crops still grow they're fine after that's the difference between real and fake ones. Okay but like it doesn't explain why. No it doesn't. If anything it's the equates to tagging which is even funnier because then it goes back to my theory that all aliens just rich kids on vacation. Earth is like Ibiza. They're here and they're having a good time and then they go back. Dude, what if that is it, though? I believe that'd be the one thing I would buy. Well, not too long after we're talking days later, literally not far away, like feet away

Starting point is 01:24:10 from this thing, another crop circle popped up. Okay. It's called the Arisiboche Bolton Crop Glyph. That looks like the fucking rock from fucking Mars. Oh, dude, they were predicting our future. You know, the rock, the fucking the one that was on the like, Mars. Oh dude. They were predicting our future. You know, the rock, the fucking, the one that was on the, like the Mars face. Yes. That's the exact same vibe. Yeah. Yeah. It does actually. Yeah. Honestly, it has a little bit of like, um, sting from WCW.

Starting point is 01:24:38 Yeah, I feel that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can see that too. Yeah. Um, so there's that, that popped up days later with no explanation. We never got one. Yeah, you saw the response the actual response and what it was, you know, the different about and whatnot. But that then brings us to 2002 with the Sparsholt alien face and disc that showed up in Sparshult, Hampshire in 2002. Now this one, I think you would all, you're both are going to recognize. It's a pretty famous one. And again, to remind you, all these are like, these are all popping up overnight. I remember thinking it was fake for a long time. I didn't realize it was real for like a long while back in the day. This one is just so crazy to me. Like, man. The detail. So here, there's so much fascinating about this one.

Starting point is 01:25:25 We're going to get to it. So this is huge. It's remarkably it's a depiction is as large. It's got a stylized alien gray face on it and an accompanying circular disk that is seeming like a coded message. So this the face itself measures approximately 250 feet long and was rendered with wild artistry. We're not talking about just bending the plants at the base. There were crops that were bent halfway closer up to give shading to the object. Like and all of them were were

Starting point is 01:26:02 similarly uninjured and just kind of used in a gentle way I guess is the best way to phrase it. The circular disk next to the face contained a spiral of what was eventually learned to be binary code and when deciphered the code translated to the following message and I'm going to go ahead and let you read this whoever wants this is the alien message. Oh I'm gonna go ahead and let you read this whoever wants this is the alien message. Oh, I'm an alien We wear the mirrors of false gifts and their broken promises much pain

Starting point is 01:26:34 But still time L Regal You'll read you. Yep There is good out there. We oppose deception. Conduit closing. Why would they need to write over?

Starting point is 01:26:52 This is how I know it's fake. Because they wrote over and out at the end? Yeah. I don't know. I don't... Again, the binary code was pretty straightforward and simple and reportedly executed with a high degree of precision within the crop circle itself. It was a very precise pattern, but it's funny because the alien face is your stereotypical alien face. It's bullshit. This is, you know, it's bullshit. Any, any time an alien's

Starting point is 01:27:19 like, beware of false like anytime an alien starts quoting like biblical stuff. Absolute fake. I 100% that's just lazy, like not creative fantasy writing. False promise, false gifts, bears of false gifts. I see. What if that's just that's just what if that's just all those misinformation agents out there muddy in the waters? It's not. It's just some guy who is like, because the aliens talking about Jesus a little bit. So like you gotta be good Christians. So you gotta understand then that like, if that's true, this dude did it overnight. Yes. And bent crops at different angles,

Starting point is 01:27:59 did not break any of them and was able to create 3D shaving over a 250 foot long alien face without the farmer noticing. It's amazing. It's amazing. I'd be I'd be wild. So here's the thing. Nobody's ever come out and said this was me. It's never been claimed.

Starting point is 01:28:15 There is nobody who claims this is it. It is just one of the ones that is just it's so brazen. Yeah, we are so brazen like nobody took it. Nothing. I know. I know what you're going to say. If you traveled the cosmos and wrote down, beware the bearers of false gifts and their broken promises, much pain, but still time. It'll read you. There is good out there. We oppose deception conduit closing. That is nonsense. Gibberish. The ill-reached part is probably a mistake. If I had to guess,

Starting point is 01:28:48 like they probably like, as somebody who makes a lot of ciphers in my life, like it's probably like some kind of trash leftover that they made a mistake when they like started to make it. And then they realized like, well, fuck. It's the same thing as when someone says, Oh, I'm contacted by aliens or a ghost is talking to me. I know. Yeah. Like it's the exact same vibe as I'm going to tell you nothing, but what I say is going to sound mysterious. And that's, it's complete nonsense. Hey, you know, I, it's a,

Starting point is 01:29:18 that's an absolutely valid take. No, it's the only take. I just, I, Mathis, I need you to know this. I need you to know, I need you to understand if an alien arrives on earth and says, yeah, that was me, I will literally let you take my own cellular phone and place it firmly up my butt hole, because that is how little this will not happen. That is not real. This is the only thing to go. I agree with you that all of it seems so cliche.

Starting point is 01:29:46 It's just the manner in which how it how it popped up and again with like the weirdness of the bent crops is the only thing that lingers for me of like, well, that that makes no sense though, because it would take them forever to bend each individual crop gently to not break or hurt it to create 3D shading within the model of the face itself. It's fucking wild to think about a group of people doing that overnight. It's just I don't like I don't know if it's possible.

Starting point is 01:30:12 Why is the circle makers didn't even claim this is like it's like who knows? I don't know. Let's move on to the one of the last two the Julia set formation as I said, we were talk about so this is the one that appeared at Stonehenge overnight, the 149 individual circles arranged in a spiral pattern spanning over 900 feet. The precision of the design and its accurate representation of the mathematical concept was remarkable.

Starting point is 01:30:38 To create a formation like this, the people or creatures or whatever would need to have a deep understanding of fractal geometry and the specific equation that generates the Julia set. This would require obviously the calculation beforehand and then executing such a complex design in a field under this is the one that happened under four hours due to the season that it was four hours of darkness during a storm where there was a security guard there

Starting point is 01:31:04 except for a 45 minutes where he stepped away and came back. He says he saw nobody no lights nothing in the field whatsoever. What if they just came back? What if they just paid him a thousand bucks to say he was gone for 45 minutes when really was gone for six hours? I mean, sure. Yeah, it's possible. Go get a beer.

Starting point is 01:31:21 Some researchers believe that the appearance of a fractal like the Julia set in a crop circle might be more than like a display of mathematical prowess, suggesting that it could be symbolic representation of the fundamental principles of the universe, such as self-similarity, recursion, or the interconnectedness of all things, or it could have been made purely for artistic value. Julia set regardless is one of the formations that remains one of the more compelling and enigmatic crop circles ever found in its mathematical complexity, its precise execution and its appearance near the site of ancient significance like Stonehenge.

Starting point is 01:31:53 It just makes it all the more interesting. But there's one other one that's even more complex than the Julia set, but equally mathematically complex and fascinating. Is that also part of the Julius set? That one that we just saw No, right. What the one that we just that one with the alien face? Yeah. No, no, no No, the Julius set was one of the earlier photos essentially of the swirl. Yeah, the one that was like three arms. Yeah Yeah, yeah exacts the Julius set. Yep. Next level this one we're talking about is the Mark Hill Galaxy spiral There's your photo. This is another one. This appeared overnight on Next up, this one we're talking about is the Mark Hill Galaxy Spiral.

Starting point is 01:32:26 There's your photo. This is another one. This appeared overnight on August 12th, 2001 near Mark Hill in Wiltshire, England, which is all in this one is known for its immense size. This one's like a triple version of the Julia set. It is stunning to see this formation spanned over 780 feet in diameter, making it one of the largest crop circles ever recorded. The design, for those who can't see, features a massive central circle

Starting point is 01:32:57 from which six spiral arms emanated, each arm composed of a series of graduated circles. It resembled a like six arm spiral galaxy in a way. The entire formation is consisting of 409 individual circles, each one precisely placed within the overall design. It's equally measured, it's perfect. The spiral arms were not smooth curves, but were created with a quote unquote

Starting point is 01:33:22 stepped or pixelated effect, adding to even more complexity to a design. You can see how it kind of like if you trace the outside, it's like in a weird wave, almost like a like a flower kind of thing. Creating a formation of this side and it's in complexity overnight with such a large number of precisely placed circles is a monumental task, even for a large team of experienced Tokers to do Toksers to do that overnight without being detected. I don't know for me that stretches the limits of

Starting point is 01:33:48 what's plausible, but you know, it's not impossible. I'm not going to say it's impossible. You can never say it's impossible. The lever level of precision that was required to create the spiral arms in the way that they appear with their graduated circles and stepped design is also extremely difficult to achieve in the in the dark using rudimentary tools without fucking up somewhere along the line, but it's perfect all the way across.

Starting point is 01:34:10 And as with many other large formations, it's just the sheer amount of work involved in flattening all these crops all within the confines of a single night is just kind of like hard to wrap your head around. The mystery deepens even further when we consider formations that seem to directly reference complex scientific concepts. These formations that popped up in crops suggest a level of knowledge and intention that might go beyond simple hoaxing, but up to you. The Windmill Hill Einstein Rosen Bridge Crop Circle from 2010 is one that popped up in Windmill Hill in Yatesbury, Wiltshire, that immediately captured attention for its striking resemblance to a stylized depiction of an Einstein Rosen Bridge or more commonly known as a wormhole. I'll go ahead and get you that photo as it looks like what like what kind of wormhole like how does it look like a wormhole?

Starting point is 01:34:59 I will show you. Yeah, does it look like our understanding of a wormhole? Something that we like we would be able to look at and I think understand like deep space nine. It's just the logo of like it's the deep space nine. It's like hard to fucking still still having the vibe of like something created by us because we would understand it. Does that make sense?

Starting point is 01:35:21 So it's it's so it's it's two interconnected swirls with a perfectly getting into you right now, with a perfectly straight line through the center of it. Spirals. Spirals, and you see the middle line that goes through it? Yeah. The line, is that not from the... It might be. Okay, so look, here's why I think it's a wormhole, because it connects. It's two spirals next to each other that connect.

Starting point is 01:35:44 Like, if you start at the inside of one spiral and drew a spiral outwards from that spiral I think it's a wormhole because it connects. It's two spirals next to each other that connect. Like if you started at the inside of one spiral and drew a spiral outwards from that spiral and then took it all the way to like 12 o'clock and then drew like an eight above it and then spiraled in to that spiral, right? That would be what that looks like. So I see how it's a wormhole in that sense.

Starting point is 01:36:04 Yeah. And there's another one from 09 in that looks like. So I see how it's a wormhole in that sense Yeah, and there's another one from oh nine in that same area. I'm just gonna give you the telegraph link for this one That is similar In its swirliness, but not quite in its like wormholiness. This one is crazy. This one doesn't look real Yeah, it's fucking crazy the formation feature this one looks like a fucking musical instrument This is yin-yang if a yin-yang was a musical instrument, that's what that is. It's weird. And here's the thing. I could go on for like another hour of just weird crop circles, fascinating designs, fractal patterns.

Starting point is 01:36:37 There's a ton out there that are genuinely fascinating that have the hallmarks of what I would consider a real crop circle with the bent crops heated from the inside, you know, in swirl patterns or braided like they might be. And it goes on for, you know, like there's so many out there and they're still popping up today though. I don't know if they're as often as they used to. Regardless for whatever the reason. Where does that leave us now? Well, that's kind of it. It

Starting point is 01:37:05 leaves us with what you think is going on. I provided you with the facts behind it all. I don't know if it changes how you see crop circles, Alex, but for me, after doing a lot of this research, I truly believe that there is a phenomenon creating real bizarre things out there that leave evidence that would be hard to replicate overnight, especially if you say you're pole vaulting. I'll say this. The mystery is definitely deeper than it seemed at first. That's for sure. But the connections to Jim Schnebel.

Starting point is 01:37:38 Yeah. And then Schneebly, all of them. Yeah. But here's the thing. There's so many places where other options are more likely, like more collaborators or being like in cahoots with the guard who was gone or things like that, which like, you know, if you're in rural England, you know, you can just drive to somebody's house, nobody's going to see you. That's not like London where, you know, it's like, we've got him on a camera continuously for 200 miles all around London. Like,

Starting point is 01:38:11 fuck that. You can just go visit him in the night and be like, Hey, buddy, I'm going to give you fucking 850 pounds cash money right now. If you go tell him you were here for this amount, and you were gone for a little bit. So it's realistic, but it's, you know, like something like that, that I agree. Like that stuff is easy to be like, yeah, I can see that. It's really the lack of any human error in these perfect geometric designs specifically that leave me go.

Starting point is 01:38:37 I don't know, because like they would have to literally, especially with the team, the more people you have there, the more of a chance someone's going to fuck up. And all of these are perfect. And that's the ones, those are the ones where I'm like, weird, like, yeah. But again, you're like, you're right as well. There is Occam's razor of, I guess that is possible.

Starting point is 01:38:53 Like, but to- It's just so much more, like for me to like, have to like rethink my entire paradigm of reality versus like 10 people did this instead of two, and they had more time than we think, and they maybe have some way of like steaming the fucking, uh, plants or something that we don't know about. Jesse, what about your final thoughts?

Starting point is 01:39:14 Yeah. I mean, I'm still not in camp. It's as complicated as we think. However, I'm open to the idea that they're being created in some way that we don't know how to describe yet. But also I think we might not know enough. Maybe if I did a Google search of like ways to bend plants without breaking them, we could find something. With 90s and 80s technology specifically. Well, you know, I'm just saying, I'm sure there could be something out there. I just don't have an answer for you.

Starting point is 01:39:49 Yeah. But I do think all the the factual evidence, quote unquote, is like. There's more fun in the mystery bits about like, why did that guy live next to the, you know, like that's much more interesting. That's very fascinating. A letter that's like, beware the, the, those who don't tell you the truth. They're bad dudes. Like it's, that seems like a giant hoax to me.

Starting point is 01:40:15 Turns out though, turns out that they were fucking right. People paid some off. Look who our president is. Turns out they're fucking right. Yeah. They were right actually though. But yeah, I agree. Like I, I, there's a part I do. I'm in the,

Starting point is 01:40:27 I believe there's something phenomenon creating some of these the, with the way that they are. But I also am, I'm with you. I think majority of them are manmade. I think without a doubt, a majority of them are manmade. And that's what makes it so difficult to look at the ones that are genuinely fascinating because of the weird things that they found in like the cell structure of the plant being changed and shit that is mostly boring. Like, you know, to go look up. So that's why we try to make it fun here for you.

Starting point is 01:40:53 I suggest everybody go check it out. Like go, go do some research. It's a rabbit hole. It's not settled. It'll never end. And we may be seeing some more of these names that you heard. Monroe Institute, Jim Schnabel coming up in a nearby, relatively nearby mega series that I have been working on for quite some time. Get ready, a nearby mega series. I hate those, but... Until then, we're off to go do a mini-soda at patreon.com slash jilluminaughtypond.

Starting point is 01:41:15 Thank you guys so much for supporting us there and here and everywhere. Let us know wherever you're listening to us. Drop us five stars. Check us out at bluesky and all the other socials. We're all over the place. And head over to theeddy.com slash jillumilluminati to check out our merch that will be getting any uh some new stuff very soon as well It's gonna be wild but until then we love you. We appreciate you. Goodbye Give yourself a hug

Starting point is 01:41:41 Just remember that you're loved. I don't love you. If I could hit you with a belt I would, but you know. Hello everybody, welcome back to the Jaluminati Podcast. As always I'm one of your hosts Mike Martin, joined by the... I don't know who they are. There's two. What? Terrence Hill and Bud Spencer.

Starting point is 01:42:09 No! Neo and Trinity. No! I don't understand and I probably never will. Let me just tell you right now that there's two. Leon Kennedy and Claire Redfield. I'm telling you, I think he literally just looked up famous duos Cheech and Chow

Starting point is 01:42:27 And has been going through the list ever since I'm trying to dig deep Which one of you is Dick Powell? Me? Your name's Jesse Cox! I want your lunatic I want my mind maker I want your lunatic I want my mind maker I want your Illuminati I want your Illuminati Hello everybody, welcome back to the Jaluminati Podcast. As always, I'm one of your hosts, Mike Marhen, joined by Alex and Jesse. This guy that's actually a UFO.

Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 284 - Crop Circles

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.