Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 285 - The Hudson Valley UFO Sightings

Episode Date: February 9, 2025

The boys breakdown one of the largest UFO sightings in modern history, along with one of the weirdest investigators to drag it down. Damn you Imbrogno!!! MERCH - http://www.theyetee.com/collections/chilluminati ZocDoc - http://www.zocdoc.com/chill All you lovely people at Patreon! HTTP://PATREON.COM/CHILLUMINATIPOD Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - http://www.youtube.com/user/superbeardbros Editor - DeanCutty http://www.twitter.com/deancutty Show art by - https://twitter.com/JetpackBraggin http://www.instagram.com/studio_melectro SOURCES https://www.amazon.com/Night-Siege-Hudson-Valley-Sightings/dp/156718362X Night Siege: The Hudson Valley Ufo Sightings - By J. Allen Hynek and Philip J. Imbrogno Ultraterrestrial Contact: A Paranormal Investigator's Explorations into the Hidden Abduction Epidemic - By Philip J. Imbrogno

Hello everybody and welcome back to the Chiluminati Podcast episode 285. As always I'm one of your hosts, Mike Martin. Today joined by my two co-hosts, the J. Allen Heineck and Philip K. Embrogno of LA, Jesse and Alex. I'm clearly the one you can't pronounce. Are you sure? Embrogno, Embrogno, Embrogno. I sound like an Embrogno.

I feel like I love Embrogno. Does anybody even know how to pronounce my last name. Uh, fuck. Anyway, I'm a Heineck. Yes, you are. But I think at the end of this, Jesse, you're going to regret saying that you're in the imbrogno I'm real unless you're telling me this guy like killed an eight a family I'm no no no no no no no no no yeah no regrets just tell me you forgot who J Allen Heineck was maybe you killed it maybe you killed it in your worldview. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I'm all right. Open up the third eye. Does this look good? Is this a good look? It's too big. That's a full forehead worth of eye.

For those who only hear it, Alex opened up his third eye and it's enormous. Give me a good, clean description of what this looks like for everybody. So Alex has opened his forehead eye, which is the size of his entire forehead. Oh yeah. Um, both making it impractical and he would go immediately blind by the amount of light blasting his forehead. Yeah. Also lightly highlighting my hair loss as I age, just highlighting some of the

places where it's most evident. Giant eyeball. Imagine an eye the size of 12 eyeballs put together. That is what he has unloaded on his forehead. And honestly, it would be scary. Imagine if Mike Wazowski had a face on his chin. That's what it would be like. This is exactly what it is. Yeah. The old face description. Anyway, I'm J. Alan Heineck. Yeah.

Welcome to derailed the fuck out of me. You can support J. Alan Heineck on Patreon. Yeah, he's on there. He writes, he writes, he writes, he does a vlog every week. We get his, we, we, we channel him in with a spirit box. It costs $600 a month. It's a new tier that we're doing. It's called the made up tier.

You can go there, check it out. And all the real tiers are there as well, where you get real good actual rewards that are tangible, feel good. Mel who does all the art, the bunnies, the Bigfoot, all that stuff that you guys have probably seen. She has- Seasons of the desert. Yeah. She does art every single month on the channel

on the, for Patreon. That's just, just for us, just for you guys. That's like a sick ass, the one from last time was like this like sick graffiti one. Yeah, like a street art style. The Chiluminati logo had like fangs and a tongue and it had weed crocs, like Mathis's weed crocs. And there was like a little alien stuck under its shoe,

like gum. I think it's like smoke in a fucking blunt. It's good shit. It's good shit. Get in there, have a look. Those are, again, those are the real rewards. If you want the made up rewards, they're $600 a month and they do not exist.

Thank you. All right, excellent. Unlike today's episode, which is totally real. Alex, I know you're expecting a certain episode today. I'm throwing you a curve ball. I'm bumping. Hey, I got my gloves on. So don't even trip. We are still doing aliens and it is the last mass sighting. We're doing a mass sighting that we haven't covered before, but I would say it's the last mass sighting we're going to cover.

That is basically a one parter that is because the next few that we're going to cover that we've got scheduled our big, big boys. Um, and, uh, this is one that I've kind of had on my note in my notes for a while. This is the Hudson Valley Sightings. Hey Are you familiar with the Hudson Valley sightings gentlemen? I think I watched like some kind of documentary in college that was like five stories of the UFOs and one of them was this Yeah, it's one of the biggest ones. It took place mostly over the course of two years 1984 to 1986, but the first sighting started right in the beginning of 1982. And these were sightings that were witnessed by not hundreds, but thousands of people. This is something that has was just like

witnessed by not hundreds, but thousands of people. This is something that has was just like vastly seen, reported by police, seen by police. And of course, there are given explanations that we'll cover. But we're going to jump into this pretty deep. And the very first thing I want to say is the top main question real quick geographically. We're talking like Hudson River Valley. Yes.

Right. Yes. I believe that like New York Hudson Valley. Yes. Yeah. Correct. It's like it's literally like the East Coast version. It's like the like old Bay seasoning version of the Phoenix Lights. But yeah, yeah, yeah, kind of like that. Yeah. Basically, for several years in the early part of the 80s,

thousands of people reported seeing extraordinary shit in the sky, all like all the time. And this wasn't just like a fleeting light or an odd shape that was kind of maybe a bird could have been something else who fucking knows. No, these were consistent, prolonged sightings of enormous, some reported the size of football fields, completely silent, boomerang shaped or triangular objects, often as just being as a bigger than a football field, usually hovering low over highways, rivers and residential areas. This is the Hudson Valley sightings flap, one of the most significant and prolonged mass UFO sightings in modern history.

This happened, I was born in 1986, so this is before my time, but just right around then, my parents, I shouldn't have asked my parents about this when I was putting this together, if they knew anything. They didn't live in New York at the time, but I imagine it was on the news. Sometimes this shit was like a big deal on national news. This is the 82 to 86. This is just like, you know, early 80s.

I didn't realize it was that long. Yeah, it was a long time. And it's just one of those things where there's so much witness testimony for it, but because of one particular person who is very attached to this, I'd say the credibility of the Hudson Valley sightings kind of fell. And we're gonna talk about him in great detail in the back half of this episode. But our main source for today is the book Night Siege by Dr. J Allen Heineck and his co-author Philip J. Embrogno

Can I ask a question really quickly before we jump into this? Yeah, of course, because it's been in my mind I think it's interesting Do you when you talk about this you say a lot of people saw it and there's this big, you know Do you think that 20 years from now, people will be talking about the New Jersey flap? Dude, when I was putting this episode together just a few days ago when I started the script, that was a thought I had. 100.

Because this kind of reminds me of what's happening now, continuing to happen now. Except the military gave an excuse for this one where it's weird the military's like we don't know what it is until Trump came in and then they were like their FAA certified research something and that which made no sense which when the FAA said they didn't know what it was and also they're in England and Germany and all these other places. It just sounded like somebody saying calm the fuck down. Literally. It didn't feel like a measured and like information minded response.

And this is a little off topic, but it was great to watch the UFO subreddit get extremely mad that they were like, he said he was gonna tell us what the drones were. And I'm like, you fools. Yeah, man. Yeah, yeah, that was gonna be, you thought that was gonna happen?

Okay. Yeah, yeah, man. But yeah, this thing was one, I love that comparison because I had that same thought when I was putting the episode together. Yeah, the sheer volume and persistence of the Hudson Valley UFO sightings ended up drawing a lot of attention and brought a lot of vigorous methodical investigation. It wasn't a phenomenon that could be easily dismissed. It required a dedicated effort to gather data, interview witnesses, and attempt to make any kind of sense of whatever these events were unfolding

above the New York skies. Two key figures emerged as the central effort. The two authors of the main book that we're looking at and using today rather, Dr. J. Allen Hynek and Philip J. Imbrogno. And it was with their combined efforts and expertise, with their very contrasting backgrounds But a very fervent shall we call it commitment to uncovering what was going on

Made them a pretty powerful duo though imbrogno really annoyed the fuck out of Heineck and It was just you know, I see a Luigi would you see it's like Mario and Luigi or like Mario and Wario? No, closer to Mario and Luigi than Mario and Wario. But if Luigi was less paranoid and more eccentric. Yeah, I'm just trying to connect it for our 35-year-olds listening. Yeah, that'd be a good idea.

To something that they're familiar with. Now we've talked about Heineck in the past, but I'm going to give you a pretty, like a refresher here as to who Heineck was. He passed in 1986, by the way, April of 1986. And I want you to know I was born on May 2nd of 1986. So I'm probably a reincarnation of J. Allen Heineck. That checks out. But Heineck in many ways is kind of the father

of modern ufology. Cause the credentials are really impeccable. He earned a PhD in astrophysics from the University of Chicago in 1935, specializing the study of stellar spectra, which is the analysis of light emitted by stars to determine their composition and properties. This background provided him basically with an understanding of astronomy, physics, and the scientific method very very well, and he held of astronomy, physics, and the scientific method very, very well. And he held professorships at Ohio State University and Northwestern University, where he eventually chaired the astronomy department. So the man comes with like the education.

He was also the most famously, especially for our listeners, part of Project Blue Book. In 1948, Hynek's life went into the, by way of US Air Force, to serve as their scientific consultant to Project Sign, the first official investigation into UFO reports. This project evolved into Project Grudge and ultimately known to become Project Blue Book, which ran until 1969. So a little over a decade. Or until today. His initial task was to provide, I seem to come forward to say, he was basically

told to provide natural or manmade explanations for their UFO sightings. Essentially, he was there to debunk them. He was a skeptic already going into this, so that wasn't a big deal. But approaching the phenomenon with the assumption that there was logical explanations still left him at the end. And it's time being done with it, going no wait, there's something here and causing him to continue the studies and come his life after Project Blue Book.

Like believer in UFOs or just kind of like still open-minded because he had no answer. He was very much a believer. He wrote a book with Jacques Vallee, The Edge of Reality, which is one of the ones I have. And that's a seminal work. It's very, if you're a UFO kind of head, it's one of the ones you need to read.

That book though is a much more philosophical approach to the, and the idea that these are not necessarily, you know, nuts and bolts from another planet, but could be consciousness related. And Heineck seemed to indulge in that a little bit in that. So like, yeah, he was a believer because he was, he left with more questions than answers for like, you know, a significant percent of them. Yeah. And I'm not saying like 50% of them.

We're talking like five to 10% of them, which is like, you know, statistically significant. That's significant. That's, that's, that's worth like, oh, that's like worth like Remarking upon right literally remarkable over literally over two decades of examining thousands of cases Heineck meticulously Categorized and analyzed the data. He was such a fucking nerd He successfully explained the vast majority of sightings as misidentified aircraft, which is true or astronomical phenomenon, weather events, or even hoaxes. However, a persistent percentage of cases often involving highly credible witnesses,

like what we now know as we're seeing today, pilots, police officers, military personnel would come to him privately because that was his job. And the things that they saw then reported defied any conventional explanation explanation according to Hynek. These cases exhibited what Hynek termed quote, high strangeness, which are characteristics that could not be easily dismissed. Things that move in a way our physics would basically not allow something to move

with our understanding, that kind of thing. Can I ask like, what his like process look like? Like what kind of things he was doing? Like was he in a what his process look like? Like what kind of things he was doing? Like was he in a lab or is he like? Well, for Project Blue Book, it was basically record, like go if there was an area where something happened, you know, he'd go out there, he'd go and interview each one of the witnesses

and keep a very meticulous folder. He'd go to where the event happened, see if there were any physical evidence, take pictures, take notes, do measurements in the case where there were burn marks. That's kind of why, like, he was a nerd. Like, he was just like a very meticulous man. He was also the guy who introduced the swamp gas explanation to the world. In 1966, a series of UFO sightings in Michigan prompted Hynek to offer the explanation of

swamp gas, which is basically, you know, marsh gas igniting and creating unusual lights, which does happen. This explanation, while plausible for certain aspects of these sightings, was widely ridiculed and became a symbol of the Air Force's perceived like kind of dismissiveness. Literally in Men in Black. Yeah, and he's also gone on record afterwards saying he regrets even introducing swamp gas as an excuse because it is the thing that people latched onto and it just kind of ran rampant throughout the community. Like people just- I'd love to read the report that it came from though and see what the con- like, I wonder if the report that it came from actually like maybe was swamp gas.

Yeah, it's been so long since I've seen the report. I don't remember, but it's out there. I should go read it again, too. After Project Blue Book closed in 69, though, Hynek became a vocal advocate for the serious scientific research and study of UFOs. He argued that the unexplained cases represented a genuine scientific mystery that

deserved rigorous investigation free from ridicule and preconceived notions. He founded the Center of UFO Studies, KUFOs, in 1973, an organization dedicated to collecting, analyzing and disseminating information about UFOs. He's also the guy who came up with the Close Encounter Scale. This was introduced in his 1972 book, The UFO Experience, a Scientific Inquiry, and categorized UFO sightings based on their proximity and nature of the interaction.

However, it's important to note that he specifically only went up to three, like close encounters of the first, second, and third kind. The first kind was sightings of UFOs within 500 feet, very specifically. Close encounter of the second kind for him is sightings accompanied by physical effects like electromagnetic interference

or vegetation damage from something landing. And a close encounter of the third kind was observation of quote unquote animated beings associated with the UFO, seeing other creatures or beings within the ship. And that is all there was. However, nowadays it goes way beyond three and we can thank Philip J.

Imbrogno for that and he is the reason for this. But let's talk about who Philip J. Imbrogno is. This is a, uh, Philip Imbrogno brought a kind of a more contentious approach to UFO research, shall we say? While his early work on the Hudson Valley sightings was undeniably valuable. Like he truly was a very important piece to this Hudson Valley sightings. His later explorations, which we will dive into,

and just bored like jump the shark, like just some insane fucking shit that this man goes on a tangents about that we'll talk about. But he was, you know, he held a master's degree in science education and worked as a science teacher and planetarium director. He had a solid scientific background in that regard. It's not like he was a high next level by any stretch, but he did have an education in it. He's interesting UFOs stemmed from his own personal sightings, he says, a factor that, you know, would raise concerns about potential bias in his research, which I think everybody should keep in mind when we talk about him. Um, but his contribution to the Hudson Valley investigation was significant.

He was on the ground. He was an on the ground investigator, tirelessly interviewing witnesses, visiting, uh, citing locations and meticulously documenting events. as visiting, citing locations and meticulously documenting events. While Heineck was there to do in the way he'd always done it, interview people, go to the sites, paperwork, try to trace if he can contact the FAA, if he can get any records,

this dude would just go out into the community and talk to people. And that's kind of all he did. And any little lead, anybody could say anything to him, it didn't matter how insane it sounded, and he would just go give them the time of day. And that is why he was kind of obnoxious

when it came to Hynek because he was, while he was getting witness testimony, he wasn't being like particularly picky about what he listened to. Like it was just absurd claims would draw him. And again, we'll talk more about that as we talk about Imbrogno later. Isn't that most of where we operate, to be honest?

For sure. But when we're talking about Heineck and Imbrogno as a comparison, like the way they both operate. I mean like the space in general, most conversations we have are like, this person said this thing and it's like, well, who are they? Some guy who was drunk at the time. A hundred percent. Okay. Absolutely. So I wonder, like, I mean, he's doing kind of what most people in this space are doing.

I think it was what I say, I would say is if it was, if it was only in Brogno out here and not Heineck, no one would fucking give a shit. Like Heineck gives the credibility. It's like us. It's like us versus like a government investigation. Like we're here and you know, people like kind of maybe sometimes think our show, they get kind of like prickly about and you know, people like kind of maybe sometimes think our show, they get kind of like prickly about our research sometimes. But like really like the tone of our show is like here is like a thing that is out there that people say, right?

Yeah, we're just trying to kind of like report back culture. So like somebody like this going out and talking to people there's value to that in a way like a sociological way. Yeah, but if you're if you're investigating for the government, I feel like, you know, there maybe could be some sort of like, you know, rigor to it that maybe this guy alone would lack, right? It's just the two of them paired is just a phenomenal like image in my mind. They are the polar opposite. A sloppy guy, like a sloppy guy and like a G-man.

Exactly. And honestly, even with his kind of loose way of doing kind of interviews and whatnot in town, it wasn't be until after the Hudson Valley stuff where he goes into the stuff that really starts to discredit him. He's the guy who came up with the term ultra-terrestrial. The ultra-terrestrial hypothesis is the one that suggests that some UFOs and related phenomena originate from dimensions, realities, different timelines, blurring, not space, not space, like things that like even go beyond like we've talked about multiple dimensional things, but he's talking like the land between dreams, like, you know, crazy, crazy shit. He also claims his claims of personal encounters get weirder and weirder the more and more he talks about them. He would also later go on to claim to have many connections with high ranking members of government and military, though he could literally never justify those claims. And he was on Coast to Coast, which we'll reference at some point later on with George. It's so good. It's so funny. Because when he asked for it...

He's old? No, I can't spoil it. It's just a funny little bit. It's not even if we get to listen to this because I'm here. We'll have the quote for it. We'll have the quote for it. OK, either way, that's basically all you need to know about him, Brogno, because that's all he really brought. You know, he would didn't have a history like Heineck did. And it's in your mind, though, is he is his work legit, like in earnest work? Or is it is it it is to a point.

And then it gets just like very, wait till we get to crystal technology from the Atlanteans. Just wait till we get to crystal technology from the Atlanteans that he talks about. Okay, that's where he goes. That's the direction he takes. I love that there's like a line with you. I know, right?

And in general, most people in euphology and you know, paranormal stuff, there's always a line and the line's fascinating and it usually always is right before crystal something. It's weird. My line with Indiana Jones movies, the line, you got an arc. That's fine. You got temples of doom, you got holy grails, great. The minute crystal skull, nah. Listen, I'm not here, I don't think I'd believe in the... That's all I'm saying is that it gets interesting that there's this weird like Atlantean crystal something,

there's the line, like, nah, that's stupid. But anything before that is fine, which is amazing to me. I agree though, it's very interesting. For me, I know in the UFO community, everybody's deaf. Definitely has their own like weird line. Crystal stands to be a pretty regular, like a big one for me. I think like my line comes from either the paper, like where the paper trail ends.

And that's usually where I'm most convinced because the paper trail paper trail always ends with like, oh, what the fuck? What do you mean? You research this and that's it. And we don't know anything anything the line is Atlantis No, I've never come across a document where the government investigate Real yeah, I've seen they I have paperwork where they talk about remote viewing and psychic abilities They do not ever talk about Atlantis is moreantis is more like, I feel like it's the type of legend that's like, here there be dragons,

where like now we know there were not dragons because we scanned the whole earth and stuff. So like, I feel like Atlantis is the same thing. Like, we're like, we know there's not Atlantis now. There's no Atlantis, we know. It's wild, yeah. People, and the other thing, the other part about Imbrogno that we're not really gonna go into

because I don't wanna dip into QAnon at all. But he's another example of how just going off the deep end and like creating crazy things leaves a lot of opportunity for really bad actors to take a lot of the lore of some of the things he kind of in like twisted and make it their own. But if you do any research, you find it really comes back to this kind of wackadoo dude who wasn't ill meaning in any way. He was just fucking, you know, really up his own ass about certain things. So now we'll move on to the Hudson Valley sightings themselves. The Hudson Valley UFO wave was not just like a one-off thing, like I said, it was a series of very deeply personal encounters

that left lasting impressions on those who experienced them. So let's talk about some of the early sightings that started really early. Before the wave truly exploded, there were precursor events, which seems to happen in UFO flap sightings, where little isolated indecidence that hinted at what was about to happen where it were kind of occurring. These early sightings are often overlooked,

but I think are kind of crucial into establishing the context of the mass sightings that followed and we start on December 31st 1981 New Year's Eve with the retired police officer by the name of Robert or rather Edwin Hansen This date is just before the accepted quote-unquote wave is kind of like truly pop culturally acknowledged and Edwin Hans, who the retired police officer from Kent, New York specifically, had an experience before people started calling them the quote unquote Westchester boomerangs. The sighting goes as follows.

He was driving home when he immediately saw what he described as a V-shaped object with brilliant multicolored lights hovering silently above the road. He estimated it to be enormous, say he quote unquote enormous and far larger than any conventional craft he had seen, saying quote, I've been a police officer a long time and seen it all.

What I saw that night was bigger than anything ever made by man. Oh my God, Max Payne. I've seen a lot of planes, but this was no plane. The lights, the size, the way it moved and the way it made no sound made it clear that this was something very strange. You like that? Yeah, I like that. She walked into my office shaped like a boomerang UFO. The gams on her kept going. I going. The boomerang UFO is like the like, like, it's like yesterday's drone UFO. Like I feel like we've moved on culturally, like for like a time,

like when, like I was alive and like pretty much an adult man, there was like, then when all the UFO sightings were like triangles and now they're like all droney ones. Yeah, yeah. it's weird. But you know, and that's where the Edge of Reality book is interesting in terms of just like, does consciousness play into it? You know, are you expecting to see something very particular and that's what ends up kind of reflecting. But let's move on so much to today's sponsor Zoc Doc and

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But let's move on to what is maybe the most famous sighting, the thing that really kind of made this a thing. Yorktown Heights, New York, March 24th, 1983. This is the most famous night of the entire event, dubbed the Night of the Boomerang by newspapers. The sighting was hundreds and eventually thousands of people would be reporting seeing a massive boomerang-shaped craft on this very specific night, often at close range that appeared to follow

the Taconic Parkway in I-84. It became such a well-known event that the local papers began to refer to the craft as the Westchester Boomerang. It looked like a small city of lights, a flying city. Couldn't believe it, it was so big. It must have been three football fields long and totally silent.

That's just one of the witnesses. Now, in Night Siege, a lot of the names are changed for the sake of keeping anonymity. They don't want their actual names mentioned. So the names I'm using are actually just made up names from the book themselves. So, you know, if you look for these people you won't find them These are one of the defining characteristics of the Hudson Valley wave though was the concentration of sightings along major roadways in particular

Particularly the one we just mentioned the Taconic State Parkway This led to numerous witnesses often driving independently reporting similar experiences even at one point been driving independently, reporting similar experiences, even at one point, multiple people all driving on the highway stopping, getting out of their cars to watch this thing just quietly. Literally like some close encounter shit. Yeah, it was dead silent and just kind of passed over them. There's Tony Valor, who was a computer program, who

was a computer programmer at the time. Imagine being a computer programmer in 1983. He was like, beep, beep, beep boop boop boop boop. Like, what do you do? You're playing with like, enormous room size computers. I'm trying to think, were there personal computers by like, 84? In 84, sure.

Oh yeah, no they were. Great. Personal computers, yes, but like, I don't know what that job was like back then. It was probably similar to now, but just like easier, probably, probably more tedious, more simple. Yeah. Open up your chats. I'm going to, I have some quotes on the throne, so I'm not reading every guy. I'm ready with the quotes. Yeah. Just for the record, uh,

IBM released its fourth model of personal computer in 84. So they've been doing it for a while. Okay. Yeah. So yeah,, not that weird. Not everyone had one. It wasn't adopted, but like maybe at work. Yeah. Maybe at work. Yeah. Um, so Tony Valor, a computer programmer, he described it as big as a house. Here's the quote. Uh, who wants to, whoever wants to be a Tony, the programmer, Tony, the programmer, Tony, the programmer is fucking hilarious. It's fucking so funny. I'll do it. I was driving along It's suddenly the whole sky lit up. I pulled over and there was just hanging there silent as anything It was enormous with these

Incredibly bright lights. I couldn't believe what I was seeing You know, I know from the voice. I'd never guess he was a programmer Hudson Valley, that's... Yeah, every single person, every... I've never been to Hudson Valley. You cross the state line into New York, bing bang boom, that's how they sound right away. Every single person, hey, what are you doing? I'm working in the Hudson Valley over here.

I own a cottage in the Hudson Valley over here. Hey! What the fuck? OK. I own a cottage in the Hudson Valley over here. He's been my family for generations. I'm what they call old money. We also had a bunch of just unnamed truck drivers, several truck drivers that reported seeing the object while they were traveling on the Taconic. One unnamed driver described it as huge, dark shaped with a row of flashing lights and it moved silently across the highway. Then there was a hairdresser that was driving with their daughter on the Taconic Parkway. And Jesse, you could be the

hairdresser. I was going to say you got truck drivers and hairdressers. You know what I mean? Hairdressers? Read that one. That one's the one's right. And then this one is the trucker. Oh my God. Here we go back to back. Um, we were driving home when we saw an enormous then hovered over the sky over the parkway. That one car stopped everywhere. People just stand on their stalling on it. Uh, and then truck driver, um, I have driven this route for years. Like it, it was massive, like a flying building and it didn't

make a sound. It just glide across the road and then it was gone Unless you got Cornelius In retired and realized the economy is about to tang so need to pick up a second job modern prospecting this truck driving sure so the Unless you think it was just civilians of course the Indian and point nuclear Power Plant was also heavily involved in these sightings. Located out on the Hudson River, it actually became a focal point for some of the more dramatic sightings. The proximity of the objects to this, you know, obviously sensitive facility raised concerns about the safety and security implications

of what these things were doing. On one night, the security guards seen it multiple times. On multiple occasions, the security guards at the plant reported seeing large, triangular, or boomerang-shaped objects hovering silently over the entire facility. These reports were often accompanied by electromagnetic disturbances such as radio interference, equipment malfunctions, and

the computer systems kind of just like going crazy for a little bit according to them. One guard reported seeing the object hovering directly over one of the reactor buildings. There were several guards on duty that night that witnessed the event. One guard who remained anonymous described it as a huge triangular craft with bright lights that hovered silently over the plant for several minutes before it just slowly moved away. The wave of sightings on this area just continued, building in intensity and frequency,

but it was always the same thing. Silently showed up, hovered, weird disturbances with their equipment, and then it would just fucking disappear. The reports weren't just coming from isolated individuals either. They were coming from entire communities, from entire families, from groups of friends,

all witnessing the same inexplicable phenomenon. The Brewer Sightings was another one with multiple witnesses. The town of Brewster, New York, which I fucking love that name, became a hotspot for sightings with numerous residents reporting close encounters with the boomerang-shaped objects. The Anderson family, which is not love that name, became a hot spot for sightings with numerous residents reporting close encounters with the boomerang shaped objects. The Anderson family, which is not their actual name, one evening was driving home when they saw a large V shaped object with once again, bright lights hovering over a nearby field.

They stopped at the car and just watched in amazement as the object slowly descended, coming within a few hundred feet of their location. And here's a little quote we can take. This is from Mrs. Anderson. I got this one. Don't worry. We were terrified, but we couldn't look away, Mrs. Anderson recalled. It was so huge and so close the lights were blinding, but we could make out the shape of the thing. It was like nothing we'd ever seen before. The object ascended and moved away, leaving the family shaken, but convinced that they had witnessed

something extraordinary. That's just a snippet from the book itself. Then you have a group of teenagers that were in the area as well, reported seeing a similar object while hanging out in a local park. What do you do when you're in the 80s as teens? Like, that seems like the only thing you can,

you can skateboard, listen to some sweet cassette tapes. Stay outside movies. Yes. Sniff a marker, play guitar, do a little crime that's relatively harmless. What do you, but there's a gang, but there's no, there's no TikTok. So like, is any of it really fun? Right. Like 80 what?

This is 84, 83, 84. So we're almost to the suit. We're almost to the NES. Yes. Sure. It could be, we could, we could be JRPG kids. Almost. It's almost time for us. Yeah. During this time you get on your bike and you go until you can't go no more. Yeah. And then your parents yell at you cause you came home at 10 PM.

All right. Yeah. You're going to be a teen, Jesse. Here's team. Okay. We were just messing around. Then we saw this thing. One of the teenagers identified only as Mark stated. It was massive and it was completely silent. We were all freaking out, but we couldn't stop me watching it. It was the most incredible thing I'd ever seen. That's crazy.

Yeah. Sounds just like a teenager. Just like a New Yorker. I thought I was young again. Amazing. Yeah. Then the Newburgh sightings are not just more civilians. These are police that actually saw these.

The city of Newburgh, New York, also experienced a high number of sightings with several reports coming from police officers. Officer that is only known as John B, which was a placeholder name, was on patrol when he received a call about a strange object in the sky. He drove to the location and saw a large boomerang shaped craft with multiple lights hovering in the sky. We'll give you another quote. We won't do all these quotes all the time, but last, this is a police officer. Let's see what kind of character is created here. He's like upstate New York police officer. Let's see what kind of characters created here. Upstate New York police officers.

Yeah, whatever Newberg is, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Let me take a crack at this. I couldn't believe my eyes. Officer B reported. It was huge and it was just hanging there perfectly still in silent. I called it in and dispatch told me they were getting dozens of calls about it. Officer B watched the object for several minutes before it slowly moved away and disappeared from view. So you know other police officers also reported the same thing out in Newburgh. A lot of people were seeing it. Then there was a small town of Stormville, New York, which became the

site of one of the most compelling and well-documented close encounters during these Hudson Valley flap. With the Russo family in particular. Their sons would go on to direct end game and infinity war. Is that real? No. There is a thing. Hold on now. No, no, it's there. It's a fake name because the family didn't want to give their.

I was about to inform a unified conspiracy theory. Yes. Yes. That end game is soft disclosure. I was about to form a unified conspiracy theory. That end game is soft disclosure. I was about to form a whole situation. The whole new episode series coming from Alex. I was in a, for, for two or two, four seconds, I was in another reality for a second. They saw similar a boomerang shaped object, uh,

multiple boomerang shaped objects that eventually culminated in a particularly dramatic encounter where one evening they saw the object hovering low over a nearby field and as they watched it, it began to descend and started coming closer and closer to their house. The Mrs. Russo goes on to say that we were terrified. It was so big and it was getting so close. The lights were incredibly bright and we could feel a strange vibration in the air, which is also a common thing with people with UFO encounters where in their car they can feel like a weird vibration.

But there were actual physical side effects that they ended up feeling, or physical effects that they ended up feeling during the encounter. The Russos reported experiencing things like a tingling sensation on their skin, their hair stood on end. They also noted that the car radio began to emit static and the lights in their house were flickering. These physical effects were also reported by multiple witnesses in other locations as well adding just to the credibility of what they claimed happened.

And again, they don't want to be known by their real name so So I almost take that almost a little more seriously because they wanted to get famous off of it. You figured they would actually give their actual names. But they also reported their watches stopping, batteries draining and strange. Their animals were like going off, basically parking and going crazy. But after the object quietly just left, they discovered that a section of their lawn appeared to be scorched and burned. The physical trace, while not conclusive proof of really anything, was added to the sense that something unusual was actually going on. And that is a documented recording of like a burn mark where this thing supposedly was.

The Yorktown Heights incident was a mass sighting and it caused a traffic jam on March 24th, 1983. That would become known as the Yorktown Heights mass sighting. Hundreds, possibly thousands of drivers on and around the Taconic State Parkway reported seeing a giant V-shaped object in the skies and local police departments became flooded with calls. One witness said, you know what, we're became flooded with calls. One witness said, oh, you know what, we're not done with quotes. This is Linda Zimmerman. Okay, I'm done with the bit. I'm just gonna-

Yeah, go for it. Do it straight. I pulled over and there it was. I mean, this thing was enormous and it was all just silent, no sound at all. And the lights, they were so bright, the traffic just stopped. People were getting out of their cars and looking up pointing I was awestruck

never saw anything like it and for those of you who are under the age of 30 listening to this there were no real easily accessible portable cameras on your phone like having something like to actually videotape this you needed like a VHS record pretty like nerdy thing to just like bust out unless you're in like a literal news van at this time. And this is the one I mentioned earlier where literally traffic stopped everybody got out of their car and they just watched as this thing just went over. Another unnamed witness said, it was so low and big I can't even begin to describe it. It was like a flying city block with those colored lights and it didn't make a sound not a whisper.

You know, we'll leave the sightings there and move on to Heineck and Imbrogno during this time because as these were all going on Heineck and Imbrogno are zipping around all throughout these little towns getting interviews with the witnesses and you know trying to get evidence as best they can and Heineck based was based at his at time, based at his center in Illinois, would often receive reports and analyze them for patterns, looking for correlations between sightings, weather conditions, and any potential astronomical or atmospheric phenomena to give you a little bit more of a detailed look at his process like you asked earlier.

He was searching for always a scientific explanation, a way to fit the data into a known framework. He was by this point becoming increasingly convinced that something truly unexplained was occurring, but his scientific training like tried to rein him in just to, you know, demand the proof. And then he got in Brogno, who was immersed in the local community,

was becoming increasingly convinced that the witnesses were describing something truly extraordinary. He saw the emotional toll these becoming increasingly convinced that the witnesses were describing something truly extraordinary. He saw the emotional toll these encounters were taking on the people. He saw the fear, the wonder, the frustration of not being believed. He was becoming more open to the possibility of unconventional explanations, even if they lacked definitive scientific proof. This is where his later divergence into more more fringe areas can be seen as like kind of a natural progression as to where this guy already was at the beginning of all this anyway.

And it's not a giant jump in his character arc. It's just very difficult to take him seriously when he starts talking about Atlantean Crystal technology. What is that, by the way? We'll get into it because believe it or not, I don't want to say we'll get to it. We're going to get to it. We're on our way there. It's so fast. He can't even say it's so complex.

It's so mind blowing that he has to save the surprise. Exactly. The investigation continued. It was driven by the tireless efforts of imbrogno collecting witness testimonies, meticulously documenting the details of each encounter while Heineck was based in Illinois, remained the crucial figure of providing the scientific guidance, lending his considerable reputation to the effort, going through all of these things, and their collaboration ended up being a blend of field investigation and scientific analysis.

However, the shadow sort of loomed over their work. J.L. and Hynek, even as the flap came to an end in 85 or so, he had transitioned obviously from skeptic to advocate. By this point, he was battling an illness. And in 1986, just after the book had come out, Hynek passed away from a brain tumor, leaving a void in the UFOs field in scientific community that significantly altered the dynamic of the UFO sightings out in Hudson Valley. Heineck's death was a loss not just for like the UFO community,

but honestly for the scientific community as a whole. He had been a bridge between the two, a respected scientist who dared to take the UFO phenomenon seriously, and his absence would be felt deeply, and his rigorous approach to the subject would be sorely missed. Luckily, I have been reincarnated and I'm here now to re-guide the UFO world into the scientific world. That's what this episode was leading to. I can't say I like this. I can't say I like where this is going. This is way higher

concept than an episode that I would do. Kufos the sequel is going to be not a cult, but maybe a cult. Kufos? That's what he started, remember, his center for UFO investigation stuff. Oh, Kufos the sequel? Okay. Yeah, I hear it now Yeah, sorry. I know weird pull I apologize And for Imbrogno Heineck's passing was not only just a personal loss, but for him a professional one He had lost a mentor his collaborator and his all legitimacy But it also marked a turning point in his own career, a shift that would eventually lead

to a lot of controversy and debate. In the years following Heineck's death, Imbrogno continued his research, publishing further books and exploring increasingly unconventional explanations for the UFO phenomenon, all while he was able to point to the book that he had worked on with the esteemed J. Allen Heineck to anchor himself in some form of credibility. He began to delve into topics such as alien abductions,

interdimensional beings, and then what he termed ultra terrestrial contact. His claims became more expansive, more speculative, and for some, less credible. Some critics argue that while with Heineck when you after Heineck was gone and Brogno felt less constrained by the demands of scientific rigor and free to explore more fringe theories and to present his personal experiences as definitive evidence. They kind of suggest that, you know, he's embellished a lot of his shit, which I think he very much did.

It's not to say that his early work is invalid, that's the problem. Like the work that he did with Heineck is valid in the context in which it was done, because he wasn't talking about close encounters of the fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth kind yet. He wasn't, you know, on that route. His contributions to documenting the Hudson Valley sightings, particularly his meticulous collections of witness testimonies remain invaluable in a time where cameras and easy photography just wasn't as prevalent as it is today.

However, we have to now acknowledge the shift in his approach after Heineck's death. Heineck developed, like I said earlier, the classification system for CE1, 2, and 3. Years after Heineck's death, Imbrogno expanded the close encounter scale, adding several new categories. These additions reflect Imbrogno's shift towards his more insane shit, and the controversial interpretation of the UFO phenomenon remain very strong

because of him in particular. First, there's close encounters of the fourth kind, which is a UFO event in which a human is abducted by a UFO or its occupants. Now, Jacques Ville kind of acknowledges in his own way that this would be CE4 for him. If abductions are real, it would only make sense that after CE3, which is visually seeing a being, that physical contact with them in some

way would be CE4. And Brogno was very particular to say that CE4 is an abduction against a human's will. But I feel like that might just kind of be like implicit for most of them, you know what I mean? Everything else is a third? So before that is a third, you just see them for what I mean is, okay, but fourth is forceful abduction. Yeah. So what about a consensual abduction? What if you just like get in a spacecraft with somebody as portrayed at the end of close encounters, the third kind or according to John, went on that ship of his own free will. That's why Jack Valle, he says a CE4 is just abduction period Willing unwilling, whatever doesn't matter. No boo

Then you have close encounters of the fifth kind this in category that was brought in a light in brogno involves bilateral communication between humans and Extraterrestrials or ultra terrestrials in inbrogno's terminology this couldn't involve telepathic communication Direct contact or any form of intentional interaction This is a significant like this is we're already jumping away from high Nick's original idea for what the CESC But don't worry There's C6 a close encounter of the sixth kind which is when the death of an alien when a death of a human or animal Is associated with a UFO sighting which is when the death of an alien, when a death of a human or animal is associated with a UFO sighting, which is pretty fucking vague.

That's interesting. What does that mean? Like if an old man dies, like during a flap of UFOs, is he like, is that related to the UFO, is that a close encounter of the sixth kind? I would consider, if we were gonna look at close encounter of the sixth kind, there's very, very, very violent UFO abductions

Particularly out in Brazil that we will look at one day Where like the skin is peeled off their face and like if you really want to see the crime scene photos they exist I would consider that a CE6 But it's vague enough where it could be someone is you know gets close to a UFO We hear stories of them like getting sick or radi's poison or maybe getting, you know, cancer from it or whatever. Like I maybe would consider that CE-6 too. But also, you know, I don't know if CE-6 is a real thing.

Like you know, I wouldn't consider that anything else other than a scientific curiosity because it's still CE-7 which is when the creation of a human and alien hybrid, either by scientific means or straight up bone in an alien. Yeah, bone in an alien. Yeah. I knew there was a closing, it's as close to a 6.9 as it can be. It is. It is so damn close. And you know, I wonder if they'd allow a CE6.9 because a seven is specifically to get a human

hybrid. So there's got to be like a baby. I wonder if they'd allow a CE 6.9 because the 7 is specifically to get a human hybrid So they've got to be like a baby. Maybe a 6.9 is just like a like passionate affair with no intent of having children We gotta wait. Let's just add that like one night Like a 6.9 is like that like a one-night stand with an alien CE 6.9 It is an official Chaluminati addition to the CE scale here. Yeah, we've actually for 20 We'll talk about it. Yeah, CE 420 is getting high with Alien. CE 420 is Alex getting high with Hideo Kojima. How do I make that happen?

Dude, that'd be sick. How do we get Hideo Kojima on this show? I want that to happen. I don't know that we do. I want him on. I want him on. I want to have him on. So that is the sighting.

I wanna talk a little bit about the debunking first before we go into the last bit of insane shit with Imbrogno and end the episode. So first, let's talk about what the debunking, what the excuse that was given was. The Hudson Valley sightings with, again, thousands of witnesses, a lot of dramatic accounts, personal experiences, was running amok for multiple years.

And obviously, those in power would love a much simpler, cleaner explanation to stop the chaos that's happening. The skeptical argument, the attempt to debunk the Hudson Valley sightings, rests on several key pillars, the most prominent of which is what people are talking about with the drones right now. Oh, they're just seeing planes. People are just misidentifying what they're seeing in the sky. How could a plane stop all traffic and like shock police officers and thousands of without making a sound. Hold up, hold up, hold up. Before we go down this rabbit hole. The other day I was by LAX and there were about 200 people

standing outside of the airport, taking video of planes landing. Just hanging out right near that, where the drive in there is for the- That's the same kind of highway. That's kind of like the same people- No, no, literally it's the middle of the highway, dude. It's the airway.

It is right there, right there. But you know when you go like to somewhere on a street and you see like wings and like somebody goes up and stands in front of the wings and takes a picture of that, that's that's that. That's the people taking pictures of planes landing at LAX. That's the same. But I'm just saying it definitely people are like planes. They're cool. So, you know, we can attribute that one highway sighting to a plane, but what about all the other hundreds and hundreds of the exact same thing that

everybody's seeing dead silent, not making a single noise saying, don't say that that's the thing when it could be UFOs. I'm just saying people are amused by like, have you ever seen the train guy on the internet? He just loves trains. He likes riding trains and he's a little happy. I think there's more than one of those guys on there. I'm just saying people love stuff that we don't think they would love. I'm just saying, if it's a plane, right? It's probably not unheard of to these people because it's probably something that probably happens more than once if it's a plane, that's all I'm saying. Like if it's happening over four years, right,

that at some point they would just be like, this is just planes we're looking at, guys. And at what point do you stop the planes from hovering over nuclear facilities? Like in like- Probably the same point that you stop drones from hovering over Air Force bases and then say it's FAA. Exactly.

See, I agree. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Bingo. Correct. The vast majority of the sightings that skeptics say are basically were ordinary aircraft seen under unusual conditions and then misinterpreted by witnesses who were unfamiliar with aviation or influenced by the growing excitement of the surrounding UFO flap.

The primary culprit, according to the military, is a group of pilots who were supposedly known to fly air, light aircraft at night in formation over the Hudson Valley during the time of these sightings. With their engines off. Yeah, and hovering somehow. These pilots were referred to occasionally, not always, but I just referred to as the Stormville flyers because of their proximity to Stormville airport. And they often flew at night. Basically they were supposed to be a group of small

planes, Cessna style, like planes are similar flying in a V formation that had multicolored lights on the bottom of their planes to flash and create an illusion of a large object. Hold on. Do you think, when was this created? 83, 84. The Stephen King story, The Night Flyer, do you think that's based off of this?

I've never heard of it Yeah, I never read that. Um, the night flyer is a guy in a cessna Who goes around different airports and he lands and no one knows the damn thing about him And then a bunch of people die and then the plane takes off again. Uh, I don't want to spoil what the guy is, but it's very stephen king. Uh, that came out that came out in 1988 The night flyer so i'm just saying it would be it would be Stephen King. That came out, that came out in 1988, the night flyer. So I'm just saying it would be, it would be after this. Maybe it was.

Could it be inspired? It may have been. Uh, yeah, the Stormville flyers, that kind of was their excuse though. Um, furthermore, atmospheric conditions, I said, can play tricks on the eyes, which is not wrong. Absolutely incorrect. Like there's something known as auto kinetic, uh, auto-kinetic, I think it's called hallucination, where basically, if you look in the night sky

and there's only a single light, like in the void, you're in, it doesn't have to be a light, it can be any object in the middle of a void, and this was studied in the early 1900s, your brain starts to make it look like it moves a tiny little bit. And also, that's the reason stars twinkle sometimes too, is like the atmospheric

distortion of the light and can make a light look like it's flickering or things that it's actually not doing. And I would absolutely believe that a good chunk of the things that people saw in the sky and when this is happening were

something along those lines. Right. Like it plays tricks on the eyes, temperature inversions, haze, or even the just the way light refracts can distort the appearance of distant objects. A perfect ordinary string of lights from airplanes viewed through a layer of haze could easily be perceived as a massive glowing object in the night sky.

It just, there's aspects of it that, you know, don't necessarily fit, but we're not gonna, you know, harp on it even if I want to. And let's not discount the power of obviously fucking suggestion. Because yes, once the idea of a giant boomerang had been circulating in the media, fueled obviously by witness reports and newspaper articles,

it could have just influenced a lot of other people who may have been seeing something regular in the sky, but their brain was already primed to look for something weird, and then bam, they see something weird. That's also very real. You're more likely to see a UFO when you're actually looking for something, when you're actually looking for a UFO, but like are staring at something mundane. While the sheer number of reports makes it unlikely that every sighting was a deliberate hoax, it's absolutely possible, if not likely, that some were.

The media attention surrounding the events could have inspired copycat reports, exaggerations, or outright fabrications. I mean, look at, again today, as an example, once the drone thing became big, people were sending drones into the sky and causing problems. Some individuals might have been seeking attention

or wanting to be part of the excitement or simply enjoying the thrill of playing a prank on a grand scale, even to another extent the Zodiac Killer. All the people who would call in pretending to be the Zodiac Killer, right? Right. They're just being fucks. They're being fucks and making it so much harder. And obviously the most significant thing is there's a glaring lack of just physical evidence, like a hard physical piece of evidence of any of these things. Despite thousands of reported sightings spanning several years, there are no confirmed radar tracks of unidentified objects, at least none that were released, no authenticated photographs or videos that clearly show a large unconventional craft. But the word authenticated is important because

there are a lot out there that people say, no, this is from that time. No wreckage, no debris, nothing that can be definitively linked to any sort of device or craft in the sky boomerang shaped or not. The evidence in a skeptical view is basically, it's all anecdotal. And what are you supposed to do with anecdotal evidence? And I wholly, wholly sympathize and understand that look because it's frustrating. If you've got nothing, what do you, I can, like, cool. I believe you saw what you say you saw, but unless I see it, you know, I can't, I don't have, I can't necessarily kind of lean into it.

That being said, like, it's still, the Hudson Valley sightings still very much persist today, but now I want to wrap this episode up talking about the end of Imbrogno's career and why his involvement in the Hudson Valley sightings may have contributed to it not being taken as seriously specifically because of his post-Heinrich career. After Heineck passed in 86 and his career path kind of took a very different turn, Imbrogno's path diverged sharply leading him into increasingly controversial territory. In the late 1980s,

and Brogno claimed that he had began receiving telepathic messages from an entity identifying itself as Dean Fagerstrom. Sorry. What Dean Fagerstrom? Here you go. Wait. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. There you go. That's your name. No, I understood. But the first part of that sentence, you said a being an entity identifying entity. Yeah. Not only is person Dean Fagostrum, but we're going to get to if he's a person or not. All right. Like an entity. Yeah. You're telling me that out there somewhere is an alien, an interdimensional being named Dean Fagerstrom. Yep. Correct. Yeah. All right. Cool. All right. All right.

Yeah. That's not even like clever. It wasn't even like Zorgin off. Like it wasn't anything he was Zorgin off. Zorgin off sounds delicious. Sounds delicious and creamy with mushrooms. Dean, Dean, Dean, these communications he said, wait, hold on. One might say it's supernatural. Oh, I get that reference. I'm so happy. I don't feel left out. It's so great.

These communications, he said, were often punctuated by static-like frequency shifts, in air quotes, with visions of geometric symbols. And in particular, in his 2010 book, Files from the Edge, Imbrogno wrote, you know what, who wants to be Imbrogno? Where's he from? He's from New York City, New York. Not New York City, New York. I don't know where he's from. It doesn't matter. Trust me. New York accent. We've been doing it all day. Trust me. It doesn't matter. It was like tuning a radio to a station that wasn't on the dial.

The voice wasn't human. It had a synthetic quality like a mock chain learning to speak. Cousin Ernie, Tennessee Ernie Ford, Lucy and Ricky. According to Imbrogno, the first face-to-face encounter allegedly occurred in 1989 near the Catskill Mountains in upstate New York. Imbrogno described hiking to a secluded energy vortex site,

a location reputed for having UFO activity where apparently Dean Fagostrum materialized in front of him like he said I think he said a face sort of showed up kind of out of nothing first like Gary Oldman coming out of the fire Yes, oh god according to Imbrogno His form was humanoid. It was a tall, athletic figure in a silver-gray body suit with, quote, piercing cobalt blue eyes and hair

that shimmered like liquid mercury. But this being also seemed to shift into an energy mode, which was a translucent, luminescent being resembling, quote, My phone does that also. An illuminating being resembling a hologram projected through fog with a voice that echoed as it filtered through a cathedral's acoustics. That's what his energy form was. Thoggerstrom allegedly warned Imbrogno against recording their meetings, claiming that electronic devices would distort his vibrational matrix and obviously

that makes sense. And a bra grow later joked, quote, I have expected to I have expected him to hand me an NDA for intergalactic copyrights. Oh, so good. Although admittedly, some do name Dean Fagerstrom definitely is a copyright lawyer. Like that, that checks out. Yeah, yeah, agree. Fagerstrom purportedly revealed that he was a hybrid entity, part organic, part machine created by a Galactic Federation of Light, which is now a recurring trope in New Age

lore. Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, the Tigerstrom MD of the universe sounds great. And he even had specialties. His specialties were soul level interventions, genetic engineering, and repairing cosmic energy grids.

All right, I got questions. Shouldn't this, doesn't this guy have like, what's he, why is he, is this like, you know how sometimes they're professionals who like during the day, they, you know, operate on the rich and famous and they're, you know, they're're professionals who like during the day they, uh, you know, operate on the rich and famous and they're, you know, they're like very important doctors, but by night they play world of warcraft. Is this like that? Where during the day he's the doctor for the universe,

but at night he's like, I just talked to my friend on earth. I'm getting a little crazy with it. Dean was very, uh, I was just a, um, and Brogno was very into the idea of channeling as well and made a point. I think it was Dean. It was in one of his books. I can't a, um, and Brogno was very into the idea of channeling as well and made a point. I think it was D, it was in one of his books. I can't remember which book and I don't know if it was in Brogno or somebody else who was talking to made it, but he also said that often when channeling you take on an Indian accent. What?

It's just part of everyone. Yeah. For some reason when you channel the spirits, your body takes on an Indian accent. That is, you know, I don't like that. That is fucking crazy. No, I know. That doesn't make any fucking sense. It doesn't. Fagerstrom doesn't make any fucking sense.

Anyway, Fagerstrom said is his origin story, actually, is that he said his creators were ancient beings who merged with AI, with organic life and AI to to serve as custo- ooh, got hiccup. Custodians of troubled planets and Earth was in need of a fixer-upper. The most trouble. Yeah, it needed a fixer-upper,

needed a little fucking help. Troubled. Which meant we now, like he told them his objectives. One was to first, Dean Fagerstrom was to monitor humanity's ascension, track the shifts in collective consciousness to determine Earth's readiness for open contact. Next, he's there to prevent catastrophic timelines. He's failed. Subtly altering events to avert nuclear war, environmental collapse, or even to prevent AI uprisings.

He's failed very badly. What question real quick. What is his credentials and being able to do all this? He's the master surgeon of the universe. Understood. But why slices right in diplomacy expert of the universe? Well, he's here for the soul level interventions, interparing cosmic energy grid spot. He's not the only one here. There are others. All the universe. Well, he's here for the soul level interventions in her parent cosmic energy grid spot. He's not the only one here.

There are others. All the souls. Bro, I maybe he's the master surgeon of the universal. Probably just feel like the master surgeon of the universe. Are you questioning? Have you dare question Dean Fagerstrom, the master surgeon of the surely there's Max powers, the attorney general of all space. He's busy. Yeah, he doesn't do shit. Have a conversation. He doesn't do shit because they defunded his office.

Elon got in there and defunded that too. Merged that shit with AI too. Elon is a gray human hybrid, for sure. I wouldn't even give him that much credit. He's definitely a hybrid of some sort. He's not even give him that much credit. Fair enough. He's definitely a great human. He's a great human. He's not a hybrid.

He's a great human. Elon's a great human. He's not a great human hybrid. So, okay, he's here to prevent catastrophic timelines, help with humanity's ascension. Also, he's here to help activate starseeds by identifying humans with dormant extraterrestrial DNA and upgrading quote-unquote them with his genetic engineering expertise and then serve as guides during Earth's transition

to the higher vibrational plane. Eh? As you would do. Yeah, dude. Sounds good. During one of the conversations that he supposedly had with Fagerstrom, he said, Fagerstrom likened Earth to a kindergarten for souls and claimed the Galactic Federation operated under strict non-interference laws, except when humanity's homework threatened the cosmic report card. I'll be honest. It's so interesting to me that the concept and most of these, uh, when

you talk like someone's in my head and I'm talking to them, most of these are all, you know, like soul based, like the souls, like that for some reason is an intergalactic concept that we all have souls, which again, very Judeo Christian when it comes to the idea of what we're doing in space, which, you know, look, I'll be fine. If Jesus shows up again and his second coming is in a UFO and he's like, I was an alien all along, shit would make a lot more sense. I'm just going to say. And then every Catholic Christian religion would fucking collapse.

You know what? I don't care anymore. I'll be real fair. Me too. I'd be real fair me too Gonna fuck anyone up ever again. No, I don't think so. I don't think so yeah, no information is real anymore No, it's all fake now Then faggis from decided it was time to introduce in brogno to a being known as Dynestra Dynestra can I ask a question can I ask a question about Dynestra? Yeah. Do you swear she doesn't have big ass titties? I cannot.

Hold on. Hold on. Does she have blue skin? Does she have a staff? Big old, big old titties. And for some reason, for some reason her midriff is showing. Like one of those Princess Leia Bakiti bottom things, where it like hangs down in the middle and you know, like you can't see anything, but it's all legs. Yeah. Now, I just want you also to know, before we go, Dean.

No, you can't confirm that? No, something I just, I should probably mention, and just have it here before. Dean Fagerstrom was a real person. Okay, I have some questions. Understandably. Yeah. Dean Fagerstrom claims he was the master surgeon or

Of the universe. Now, now, and Brogno goes on in one of his books that talks about like maybe he was channeling the master surgeon and believed he was, but Dean also mentioned that he had a crystal surgically implanted into his brain that allowed him to have future visions and he used it to win the lottery occasionally, but not too much because that wasn't the purpose. And what's weird is that he did actually win the lottery occasionally. What?

Yeah. So I just want to put that out there Is that real that's real how many times did he win the lottery? I don't have an exact number Do not have an exact number on that more than twice. I believe it was more Let me see if I can get that information actually it wasn't a night. It wasn't in night siege I had to go out for this information. I didn't read all of his books Dean Fagerstrom did win the lottery multiple times Let's see Dean had Attributed to and documented as being provided with extra men. Oh extra trust. So yeah, this is post

I've left it out cuz it would just take another hour. He Dean says he was given extraterrestrial mathematical data alongside designs for Like weird creations, but he also drew the designs out. He's a very interesting character that maybe deserves an episode on his own one day. Wait, so Dean is a real person.

Yes, Dean Fagerstrom is a real person who claimed he was the master surgeon of the universe, or at the very least, Imbrogno goes on to say, channeled the master surgeon of the universe, but he believed that he was actually the master surgeon of the universe. Okay, believed that he was actually the master surgeon of the universe. Okay.

But then, but then he also reported to Dynestra. What was the nest? So he yeah, so yeah, we're going to go. Dynestra wasn't a real person by the way, not real whatsoever. Also, are you sure about that? Yes, Dean turned out to be real and I didn't think that as a fucking surprise to make you to make you guys wait. So Dynestra is a space.

What? What is the nest? She doesn't have a physical form. We're going to get to that. Like what's her job titles? What I'm surprised to make you to make you guys go away. So the Nestra is a space. What? What is the Nestra? She doesn't have a physical form. We're going to get to that. But like what's her job titles? What I'm asking. Oh, well, hang here. Let me go to go over here. So let's start.

There's probably like she's she's considered a living archive. Oh, so it's like the is the. Yeah, Cortana is a great like she's like Cortana, like an energy Cortana. Right. So there's the Nra, the archivist. And then obviously there's other ones, right? Because there's a whole pantheon like Mercurian,

the forger and Valmort. The he deals with plants and animals. Fang friend, the impaler. He's like the guy who, like, you know, does the justice of the Space Force. Yeah, there's a whole bunch of them. Of course. Yeah, exactly. Makes sense. I guess. Fang Friend the Impaler. That's a good name. Let's keep, first let's talk about Dynestra, a non-living, a non-physical entity, non-living,

described as a living archive of universal knowledge, and she allegedly existed outside of linear time, compiling data from civilizations across the cosmos. And Brogno claimed that during meditative trances, Dynestra would merge with his consciousness and flood him with visions. He saw an ancient Mars, a lush planet destroyed by warring factions who weaponized tectonic energy. Think Dune meets Mad Max is what Imbrogno quipped. He goes, think Dune meets Mad Max. Then he He should never use major media franchises when describing things that he's trying to make us believe are real just for the record. That's like a tip. That's a tip for everyone who's trying to convince us that their book has like a secret truth in it. Never jump to like big sci-fi franchises.

That makes it seem dumb right away. Then he got to see through these downloads Atlantis, a society that was powered by thought crystals that amplified psychic abilities. He said they basically had wifi for the mind until someone forgot the password Oh my god, he was writing books into like 2019 this dude is being was why is he writing it like a cracked article? Why does he speak like a cracked article and then he saw someone forgot the password? And then he saw Earth's future a

password. And then he saw Earth's future, a utopia where humans communicated telepathically and recycled karma like aluminum cans. We're almost there guys. They were just so close. The Nestor's messages often for him emphasize humanity's need to quote align with Earth's ley lines and abandoned fossil fuels. You know, typical kind of alien like save the earth language. The master surgeon of the universe also ended up showing him metaphysical operations, which were surgeries that were central to imbrogno's narrative talking about soul retrieval, which is when he repaired fragmented energy bodies caused by trauma or unlocking junk DNA to enhance intuition and longevity or things like plant implant removal, extracting mysterious devices allegedly planted in abductees by gray aliens.

One case involved a woman with terminal cancer whom the frog from supposedly cured by quote rebalancing her biofield like that but But in Brogno admitted I didn't get a medical report Dean said hospitals are vibrationally toxic What is the I mean, you know what I kind of agree but I still I don't know what that means I instinctively agree from having been in a hospital, but. Wait, she's cured of cancer? Can I see? Bro.

Fuck hospitals, dude. Yeah. You go in there, you start getting lower vibrational. You start feeling more materialistic. You can't trust the doctors to give you a real diagnosis on the cured status of a woman. Science is Satan's creation? So obviously, because of this this critics started pushing back like a lot of his tropes mirrored

Star Trek tropes like the Federation Had a ton of New Age cliches star seeds were not new ascension was not new and Heineck's death kind of I think drove imbrogno to like desperately seek a new mentor. And it eventually led him to Dean who he was. And again, like I said earlier, remember Brogno was willing to take anybody at their word and go like investigate. So this dude shows up and he's like, bro, I'm actually the master

surgeon of the universe and I'm going to introduce you to Dynestra. And I'm also going to do some soul surgery. You down? And he just hands him a joint and like he's in, he's in. There was other ash. The last bits of issues with the Bragno is some lies. Um, he claimed that he had a PhD in chemistry, which was debunked as a diploma mill forgery that he had gotten.

Um, he also passages of his book, uh, in celestial teachings, which is a book from 2014 near text from a different book the Uranshia book which is just like another new age book that he just basically cribbed a ton of stuff from and obviously for for especially for these two and I'm talking about imprano and and fagerstrom the monetization aspect of it this dude was cranking out books. He was going and doing all these like tours. It's not like he made, he wasn't rich by any stretch, but in Progno, I don't think really wanted

to do anything else with his life. Like this was all he wanted to do. He just wanted to do UFO stuff. And I think he truly bought a lot of his own bullshit. I truly think he did. I think he was very gullible. And he always defended himself. He said truth doesn't need footnotes.

It just needs believers, which feels. The opposite of what you should want. I don't think that's what truth is. Yeah, it's dangerous. Take it from me. So when he was on a uh he was on uh coast to coast one night and when nori literally asked him does he have any evidence for all of this? He said quote I've had a

vision George. What else do you want? That was it. Very well. I mean that's like most coast to coast guests. Yeah, that's it. He's like that's I had a vision. That's all that he that's it. Let's not pretend that Alex Jones wasn't on there often. Very well. Yeah. Yeah. Very, very true. Um, by the mid nineties and Brogno's claims about Dean and D'Nestra had turned him into a basically a pariah of the ufology world, parts of the ufology world, other aspects of obviously embraced him,

particularly the new age mystic aspect of these things. But his stories weren't just attracting curious fans either. This is the other part where you're like, well, wait a minute, what's going on? Because according to Imbrogno, and there may be some truth to it, he may have drawn the attention of the CIA. Now in his own book, 2010 Files from the Edge, Imbrogno alleged that after he began publicly discussing Dean's cosmic surgeries and Dinesh's apocalyptic warnings, he was visited by men in dark suits

who made it clear that his revelations were, quote, not in the national interest. They didn't, and he goes, he said, they didn't flash badges, but they had that look, like IRS auditors who moonlit as pallbearers. The good guys dressed in black, remember that, just in case you have a face-to-face and made contact. Yeah, exactly. The title held by me, M-I-B, The good guys dressed in black. Remember that just in case you have a face to face and make contact.

Exactly. The title held by me, MIB, means what you think you saw you did not see. We're going straight to the wild, wild west. Brogno claimed that in 1997 he was preparing a manuscript detailing Fagstrom's role in the clandestine energy grid project linked to Earth's ley lines. Sorry, it's hard to read that sentence. One night he returned to his home to find his office and his computer wiped clean with a note on his desk that simply read, it's like one sentence, but boys, in your most menacing voice, your most CIA voice, do classified material, cease dissemination, friends in low orbit even. That was a note left on his desk. When he asked Fagerstrom about it telepathically,

the entity allegedly replied, quote, Your government fears what they cannot weaponize. Which is just, I mean, I guess that might be kind of true in a weird way. They don't mean it. But skeptics, however, pointed out that in Brogno's home security system, a spellbound crystal by his own admission was exactly like the greatest anybody could have broken and done it. Basically, anybody who knew where he lived could have gone in and did that because all he had for defense. That's a fucking crystal with a spell. I just don't like there's something incredibly funny about the potential news article of home invaders today struck Dean Fagerstrom's home or whatever this guy's home. His crystal defense system did not protect him from their gun.

It's like a Florida man thing you would read on a Cox and Cran door, I feel like. That's like a Florida man article right there. I don't. That's just so insane. And then in 2001, Imbrogno reported being followed by a black SUV with government plates after giving a lecture in Sedona, Arizona. He described the agents as two guys who looked like they'd been cloned from a 1950s FBI mugshot.

And when he he went up to confront them, an agent allegedly warned, hey, you keep talking about soul transplants, you're going to need one. He was like, but, yo, we ain't on no government list. We straight don't exist. No names, no fingerprints. And in this section of the book after here, after you said I'm going to need. Oh, I'm going to keep moving. Hypnotize a neural.

David, oh my God. They said to him, I'll say it again. It's just don't understand. If you keep talking about soul transplants, you'll need you'll be in one. Yeah, it's Elizabeth quipped later. I have expected them to zap me with the neuralyzer from Men in Black. Instead, they just vibed ominously.

Vibe ominous. He means I write this. He means vibrations specifically. He means in a literal sense, he doesn't mean it like, yo, what's the vibe, bro? No, he's like, they had bad vibrations. His strangest claim came from 2008 when Imbrogno alleged the CIA accused him of quote, galactic copyright infringement.

And according to him, agents demanded he stop sharing D'Nestra's archived histories of Mars and Atlantis, arguing the information quote, belonged to the and Atlantis, arguing the information, quote, belonged to the US black projects. Tell the Pentagon, he reportedly said, tell the Pentagon to take it up with Dynestra. She's in the Andromeda branch of the Library of Congress, which I don't really get what that means.

God bless. Yeah. He said that he thinks that the CIA's interests stemmed from two factors. The earth grid secrets that had been allegedly revealed, which is the location of energy nodes, ley line intersections, basically. And also the star seed threat that in Brogno talks of activating humans with extraterrestrial DNA that supposedly threaten government control.

So they don't want a bunch of psychic Karens demanding to speak with the Galactic Manager. Yikes. He also claimed the CIA had reverse engineered alien tech from Dynesta's archives, including Atlantean crystal reactors and Martian Karma neutralizers. Why do you think, he says, why do you think Area 51's gift shop sells so many t-shirts he mused? Which again, I don't really know what that means. I don't know what he means by that.

As a person who's been to Area 51, first off, the only gift shop is at the Little Alley Inn, which is barely an inn and barely a town. I feel like he's making jokes, but like not good ones. Yeah, it's very, it doesn't make any goddamn sense. He goes on to say that the technology that was reverse engineered were things like the Crystal Core, which was Atlantean tech per Dynastar's archives revolved around massive thought activated crystals that powered cities, healed the sick, and even stored knowledge. But Atlantis fell and Brogno claimed due to hubris, which we talked about in our Atlantis episode in great depth, the ruling class weaponized then the crystals, triggering a geopathic tantrum that sank the

continent. They basically tried to frack the earth's chakras, he said. Bad idea. The CIA's crystal quest, according to his wildest claim, is that the US black projects had secretly reverse engineered this particular tech with help from D'Nester's archives. The Montauk project is part of all this. In the 90s, and Brogno tied Atlantis to the infamous Montauk project and spot a conspiracy alleging the CIA used recovered Atlantean crystals to manipulate the weather, build

time travel tech and even create HAARP. And then there was the great crystal heist of 2003 Where Imbrogno claimed the story of told the story of the CIA raid on a new age retreat in Sedona, Arizona He alleged agents seized a vortex crystal that matched descriptions from Dinesh's archive he said they showed up with the Geiger counter and her bad vibe and One other recounted a self-proclaimed up with the Geiger counter and her bad vibe. And one other recounted a self-proclaimed crystal guardian that imbrogno interviewed for this.

And he said, they said it was national security. I said, hun, your aura is literally cocky. I said, hun. That's what the wing is saying apparently. Like Johnny Cash song. I said, hun. But, but is there a piece of truth to any of this? See, we're now seeing some crystal laser tech

actually coming to fruition. We have Silicon Valley obsessed with this stuff and we just recently had a Navy, a Navy laser weapon demonstrated at night, which you can go see a picture of. Yeah, there's a video, it's like pretty neat. Yeah, which uses, I think, a synthetic can go see a picture of. Yeah, there's a video. It's like pretty neat. Yeah. Which uses, I think, a synthetic crystal as like a focus.

Then you have quantum crystals for quantum computing. And then, of course, you've got healing crystals in new age shops, which, you know, you take it or leave it. And obviously, you've got things like the 2017 US Department of Defense declassified patents for room temperature superconductors and directed energy weapons. Obviously, Imbrogno kind of pounced on that, saying things like, quote, they finally admitted it.

That's literally Atlantean tech with a Pentagon logo slapped on top of it. Okay. And I think he only recently passed in 2022, 2023, but he went to his deathbed saying all this shit to the day he died. And it's due to all this insanity that people look at the Hudson Valley. And I think there is a taste of like, well, that dude's fucking involved.

Because if you know anything about this guy, it's kind of fucking crazy. But with all that said and done, God bless him. That is not only just the Hudson Valley sightings, but obviously those deeply involved in it, particularly in Bragno. I still think the Hudson Valley sightings are fucking fascinating and they do truly ring similar to the drone sightings

that are still going on right now. And it's fascinating to see the excuses being relatively similar than the ones that we're getting now. And I'm sure, again, a lot of it is misidentified aircraft, but I'll leave you with that. Gentlemen, thank you for joining me here and letting me talk to you about UFOs. Excellent. You got a final thought, Jesse? Get it out. I want that final thought. I'm still proud that I chose to be that man.

Yeah, you don't regret it. Because I don't regret it because you got to spend time with Web MD's Dean Fagerstrom and honestly, I wish I wish I did the galactic the master surgeon of the universe of the universe the entirety of our existence. Think about how insane that sounds. How many years of post-grad do you think that took? Oh, I bet he's still in school paying. He's paying off loans. Oh, he's done. Yeah, because capitalism is everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. You thought you thought normal university was bad.

Universe University, uni uni uni uni so expensive. Not fucking uni uni, dude. No, you're fucked. You're fucked. All right. You're fucked. All right, we're off to go to aminisodeatpatreon.com slash chillumnati pod. Hey, we did another rotten popcorn that was also alien involved called Feeders.

Oh, God. If you're on there, go get it. Don't watch it too big. Make it small so that you don't get car sick when you watch it. Thank you all so much. We appreciate you, we love you. Goodbye. I look up to her and there's a perfect line of dozen lights traveling across the sky. So Thanks for watching! you