Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 296: Heavens Gate Part III - Post Nut Clarity

Episode Date: April 27, 2025

Mike, Jesse and Alex FINISH the Heavens Gate series with a series of unfortunate events. Remember kids, rub one out before any major decision! MOFFMIN PLUSH MERCH - http://www.theyetee.com/collections/chilluminati Thank you too - All you lovely people at Patreon! HTTP://PATREON.COM/CHILLUMINATIPOD HungryRoot - http://www.hungryroot.com/chill CODE chill HeroForge - http://www.heroforge.com CODE chill Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - http://www.youtube.com/user/superbeardbros Editor - DeanCutty http://www.twitter.com/deancutty Show art by - https://twitter.com/JetpackBraggin http://www.instagram.com/studio_melectro SOURCES Heaven's Gate: America's UFO Religion by Benjamin Zeller

Hello everybody and welcome back to the Chiluminati podcast episode 296 as always I'm one of your hosts Mike Martin today joined by the guinean pig of LA Jesse and Alex. We you know what we already established this we can move on. We do get guinean pig or do we do we did guinean pig? Well then teen doe this time who's teen who's doe? Same guy it's the same guy. You're gonna see there's quite a difference in our Mr. Applewhite this episode. He goes through quite a change

and he almost loses his give-a-shit. Are you gonna tell me that he's gonna rip off like a latex mask and like take that little thing off his throat like Tom Cruise and it's not gonna be him this time? Yes, that's exactly correct. Bum ba bum ba bum bum bum ba bum. The final reckoning has begun.

Final reckoning part four. Yo, cause it's an AI dude. AI is even killing the spy industry now. Unreal. I just want Tom Cruise to play Big Boss. Like, I don't know. I just want that to happen in my lifetime.

I think it's an appropriate desire, like an appropriate want. Let it occur. I think it's an appropriate desire, like an appropriate want. Let it occur. Let it occur. Please let it occur. I'm excited for today's episode, boys, but I'm most more excited about patreon.com slash Chalumnautnipod. Is that right?

Math is, is that be- It's not a cult. It's not a cult, but it is in fact a cult website. We do have a membership coin. That's true. Mysteriously, people can't get enough of this damn coin. I'm so flummoxed by this coin. Where is it? Where's my coin? Where is it? I lost it. It's really, really popular.

I've been fiddling with it for like five days straight because I was going to show it, and now I've like fidgeted it away. I don't know what I did with it but everybody loves the coin. The coin is amazing and it actually has nothing to do with patreon.com almost. I will say- Completely not. Yeah, I will say though that in the sense that it is a cult classic, our website is a cult website.

I like that. It's not a cult website in the sense that we are a cult But in the sense that like 12 monkeys is pretty good. It is a cult classic Right. I've never seen 12 monkeys surprisingly. I'm you know, that's not surprising I'm not surprised at all and I don't think you should how about that? No. Oh really? No, I do No, I don't know. I don't know why Oh really? No, I do. No, I don't know.

I don't know why. I don't know why I said that. I was gonna say, it's just not good. No, I love that movie. I was just trying to put a spin on it. I don't know. Go to the website, support us there. It keeps the show coming out

and it doesn't cost you money. You're supporting us with money, right? It's not a purchase. It's a vote of confidence with your wallet. That's what I like to think about it as. Yeah, and with all that confidence, I spent months reading about a cult that is still active that we actively pissed off actually. So pat on the back, everybody. We love that. Love that for us. Yeah. Haven't the game is still active. We're going to talk about that today, obviously. But it was great to see an actual

Odie show up in the comment section and be genuinely upset about us telling people the history of the cult, I guess. Hey, sorry, sorry, man. Yeah, sorry, dude. You know, but not really sorry enough not to do a part three. So today we are going to pick right back up where we left off last episode after their 16 year relative seclusionlusion where they locked themselves down essentially into two or three different homes and then Heaven's Gate re-emerged in the early

1990s with new tactics and a new public presence. Marshall Herf Applewhite now was the sole leader after Bonnie T. Nettles death in 1985 who cautiously began reaching out again to potential followers. I thought you were gonna say sponsors. Yeah Yeah, he's like he needs more he needs more people in in the cult with them basically and by 1993 to 1994 the group remember briefly named total overcomers anonymous What was that was that part of the name was that an emoji? I just it felt like a good like Anytime you like should stay. It's like a tag. tad it's almost like a tag he gives a little branding

yeah like little overcomers you just put the little three the three water droplets emoji next to it exactly overcomers anonymous uh-huh it's not called overcomers anonymous I mean that's not even worse it's total overcomers anonymous is the name of it over cover overcomers anonymous makes it sound like it's like a support group and total overcomers Anonymous is the name of it. Overcomers Anonymous makes it sound like it's like a support group and Total Overcomers Anonymous makes it sound like it's like a sales. Like it's like a like they go to like Michigan for like a for like a for like a conference and everybody gets COVID. But like also they exchange business cards. You know what I also realized?

So Pax? exchange business cards. You know what I also realized? So packs? The addition, like it's three words that together are nonsense, but if they would call themselves the overcomers, that's one. Or anonymous, that is a group, right? Or you know, total. You could call yourselves total and that'd still be cool. Total overcomers, anonymous, crazy to be put together. It's really bad branding. Well, in 1993, 1994, they began once again, placing ads and beginning began giving interviews, which began signaling their long closed harvest was now open once more. And in January of the tea, Bonnie should close the harvest.

No, I get it. I understand. I just the fact that the harvest that's so many red flags just like that's what I was going to say. It's like, hey, you want to go to the brainwashing? Sorry, guys. So the brainwashing is closed from forevermore. Yeah, for 16 years, we're closing up brainwashing for a bit, but now it's reopened and in January of 94, LA Weekly even ran an article on the mysterious

UFO group, which at the time was operating under that the total overcomers anonymous name and at least one new member, Richard Ford, discovered Heaven's Gate through that article and subsequently joined taking on the name Rio de Angelo as his new name going into the cult. Yeah. Wait, so everyone else had like crap names. That guy was called Rio de Angelo. He's going to get like he would get that name after he took like he began. He kind of grew and evolved a little more.

Then you get your Odie name after that. Wait, so he didn't have an Odie name. He just had Rio. He had to give up his old name, his old identity, take on a new name for now. And then eventually he'll get his Odie name. Wait, so they make you multi-name? Yeah, it happened before. They all had to take on different names

and lose their names behind and then they got, the Odie name was a new development after like all the crazy shit happened with Bonnie. Re-Odie DeAngel-Odie is literally just a Lala-Fell name from Final Fantasy IV. Yeah, and that's where that comes from. That's where it comes from, yeah, of course. Yeah, then course. Yeah.

I should say this right now and let people know we are going to listen to a few clips of these people's goodbye tapes and we will hear their names actively said on their tapes. And just a huge shout out to the top to the YouTube channel called Heaven's Gate database that just has every video from all of them, like just compiled for like, just like storage purposes. And there is, I have listened to hours of Apple white talk and it is all nonsense. Let's keep moving though. That was just a personal complaint that needed to slip

out of my mouth. I just had like YouTuber, I just had like YouTuber guilt about the guy that you said is in this cult that watched this and got mad about it. You know, I was like, oh, that's going to make him mad. I was literally was like, that's going to make him mad. What you just said, you do an episode of something open source based on like vastly peer reviewed and confirmed multiple sources. And then somebody from that organization shows up telling you that you don't know what you're talking about.

That's how you know you're that's how you know it's a cult. Yeah, you can you can go watch all their tapes. Listen to every word everybody says and you tell me if they were all really excited to kill themselves in a few days afterward. But we'll get to those audios in a little bit. But at this point in time, Heaven's Gate was now beginning to embrace the emerging technology of the 90s as a tool for spreading their message. Identifying themselves under the business name Higher Source, the group became early adopters of the internet, baby. And this is where the name Heaven's Gate came from.

It was the name of their website. This is where they would publish their teachings and recruitment statements for the public to just have. It was a dissemination website of all their stuff. And in effect, they became what observers would dub the first internet cult, their polished website, polished for the nineties. It looked pro. Very unusual for a religious sect at the time, proclaimed doctrines, prophecies,

and contact information, allowing them to reach a global audience online. Yo, I love the internet. That's so good. Prophecies, contact information, guest book, gift exchange. How to level up to the next level. Here's our email if you want to. FAQs. Yeah.

Signature maker tutorial. And the call even earned income by designing web pages for clients under the higher source moniker at the time, all while quietly evangelizing their creed in their own website, forums and electronic bulletins elsewhere. Applewhite and his followers kind of just immediately understood the Internet's potential. They just saw it for the like what it is and what it is clearly become in our day and age. And it was a new puppet stage in a way from which they could like broadcast their message of the next level to the masses. As one scholar actually noted in one of the things I was reading,

Heaven's Gate used its website to proselytize and recruit beginning in the early 90s, becoming not just a novelty, but one of the first to truly understand the weight of the instant information being transferred online. Like much like AI today, the government like kind of didn't recognize what the internet was until it was kind of too late. I mean, it destroyed the music industry before anybody really realized like what the internet like America truly. Yeah, it's yeah, it's weird, right?

Like, but it's similar with like AI has like to like the regulations needed to happen before it's out. But the cult immediately saw like, shit, we can use this and nobody's going to stop us because nobody's really famously the cults people that are known for like manipulating people into joining them like dude, this is going to be great for us. Huge. We're going to be able to spread our fucking doctrine even more effectively without even having to encounter institutional education in the in the group

the cult itself even seemed aware of the novelty. They didn't even shy away from the internet cult label that they earned at the time. And in fact saw their high tech outreach as validation that they were on the cutting edge of spiritual communication. Cause remember they're going to a UFO. After all, they're sci-fi there. They're naming themselves or they will name themselves the away team To kind of reinforce that they're all going home, and they're only here and I reinforce that they all watched Star Trek. Yeah But also I'd rather be called the away team than any of the other names they've given themselves right now. Yeah, that's true. Yeah

Yeah, and the way seems like a jazz band. That's like where Starfleet uniforms. Yes. Yes. So what Riker plays is in on Star Trek, despite their return to public visibility via the Star Trek. Heaven's Gate did not abandon the secrecy and nomadic lifestyle of its early years, though. They continued to move frequently, frequently, even after they came back to the public and kept a low physical profile. frequently even after they came back to the public and kept a low physical profile. And in 1995, the group quietly purchased a 40 acre rural property near Manzano, New Mexico, envisioning as a remote launch pad community for their future departure. This plan was later abandoned obviously due to basically just the practical

difficulties of trying to build what they envisioned. I'm just saying that they like, they kept preaching this imminent escape from earth hedged by building a long-term refuge. Like it wasn't coming to terms like, why are we building this huge thing? If we're leaving, why are we building this? Yeah. What's the fucking point?

Good point. For the most part, Heaven's Gate renewed recruitment was virtual almost exclusively. Interested seekers could read their 1995 slash like 1996 online booklet called, and when heaven's gate the door to the physical kingdom level above human may be entered. Yeah, God, he knew he sucks at naming things, dude. That just he works at Square Enix is what the answer is. Or is naming a Dragon Ball Z game.

Yeah. Yeah. And he they even corresponded like through email with the public. And as 1996 continued on, Applewhite's crew garnered media attention precisely because of this unusual online presence in the public eye. They were becoming the UFO cult of the information age, a weird hybrid of millennial like religion and cyber culture. And even as Heaven's Gate stepped into cyber space for the first time,

internally they remained as disciplined and aesthetic as ever. In fact, their regimen grew even fucking stricter. If you can believe it, as they went into the nineties and prepared for what they saw as the quote unquote final exam of their quote unquote classroom. Day to day life was for the roughly two dozen remaining members at this time, still followed the tight structure Applewhite and Bonnie Nettles had established

in the late 70s and early 80s. They lived communally, often in large rented houses still, and adhered to a monastic routine of study, labor, meditation. Personal possessions, individual relationships were so long since surrendered, then the group continued to refer to their human bodies as mere vehicles to be trained and overcome.

All members dressed nearly identically, and if you ever go watch the videos, which you can of them, they all have that like, haircut, the same exact like a bowl haircut. They all look exactly the same. They all dressed nearly identically. Same with the clothing they use. Ate a regimented diet and observe precise rules

for everything from personal hygiene to how to fold their bed linens. Remember, they're not allowed to enjoy food anymore either. Food is merely fuel for the vehicle, nothing more. These guys would have went crazy for Huel. I was about to say, this sounds like a lot of dudes I know in LA to be honest. Seriously, like a lot of picky eaters are like, I'm just at work and I'm just

thinking, why can't I just like absorb nutrients from the sun? I mean, come on, man. Food is so fun. Like I love food. Some people just don't view it that some people are like, look, it must provide me nutrition. And that is it. They probably taste. It's not about, it's like, I got something to do. They probably, they're probably better off to be honest. Thank you so much to hunger root for sponsoring today's episode. And I hate to tell you, but spring is here and with everything going on,

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That's hunger root.com slash chill code chill to get 40% off your first box and a free item of your choice for life Hungary root comm slash chill code chill. Thank you to hungary root for sponsoring today's episode Anyway as apple white would later reiterate in a 1996 video address He would say quote our discipline is strict We teach overcoming human ways overcoming human addictions The purpose of that is to go to the heavens and basically saying every aspect of life is the classroom is a lesson oriented toward purging earthly habits and preparing for the higher existence and forced and foremost among the rule as we discussed before was celibacy everybody's favorite cult rule

Which usually isn't a cult rule at all. Sexual abstinence, which had been expected from the very beginning became absolutely non-negotiable. I'm out. I can't, I'm out, sorry. And once again, dude, I've been fucking out too, dude. Dick Jocelyn, I would have been out as like, just like he was.

That's what I'm trying to keep. I want my I want my Dick Jocelyn. Exactly. I live to live on. It needs to enjoy Jocelyn around. Yeah. Shout out to the subreddit. Art is fucking great for Dick Jocelyn. Yeah, we got a lot of good Dick Jocelyn stuff. You know, it's fun.

Yeah. In the 1990s, the group took another extraordinary measure to suppress sexual drive and gender identity measures far beyond what they had attempted before. Members were already largely androgynous in appearance, the unisex clothing, identical haircuts, adoption of gender neutral names. Identical haircuts? I missed that bit. Yeah, I told you know, the little, yeah, the little, I just said they all got the bowl haircuts.

They all have. Yeah, no, I understand. I just didn't know that every like when you said they all got, but I didn't like, I didn't know everyone was like that. Every single person. Yes. That's creepy. I wouldn't be like, hold up. What? The adoption of their gender, gender neutral names like Jemode and the Vody. Now Applewhite pushed the renunciate renunciation of sexuality to its furthest extreme surgical castration.

That's again, I'm out. I'm sorry. He to him believing that lost in gender were ties to mammalian human nature Applewhite and a select few male followers voluntarily and that's important. He didn't force it on them, but he's you know, he heavily encouraged it voluntarily underwent castration procedures in order to neutralize their their libido energy. Basically the idea had simmered for years in their doctrine with Applewhite often

taught that the next level beings were genderless and that ideal devotees should strive to be sexless angels. And around 94, this notion turned into reality as several of the male members, ultimately a total of about eight of them by their it's six to eight by various accounts. It depends on who you're talking to elected to have their balls removed and they referred to it as having one's vehicle neutered, underscoring that the body was merely just a vehicle or plant to be pruned. Like, I don't have in your vehicle neutered, dude. That sucks. That sucks.

That sucks. Fuck that. I would be so out. Fuck that shit. No way. Uh, the castration initiative was undertaken with a mix of somewhat secrecy, but those in the know zeal different recollections from different people Suggest that the idea may have first been proposed by one of the younger male adherents rather than Applewhite himself

an indicator that like the kind of just showing that like the group was. In like almost all one thought that whole idea of a cult operating as Apple White and like this feels like something Apple White would have decided himself, but if it comes came from somebody younger, that's wild. But there are other people says it did come from Apple White and I out of the two stories I do think it to me Apple whites probably the one that came up with it

I don't know. I like the idea of the young gun coming in. He's very he's like boding completely He's like we're doing this we're going all the way and Apple weights like I guess I guess he's right I guess we got to do this and then they then they all. If your question is, how the fuck did they do it? Because I can't imagine a hospital would just do it. You're right. In one instance, a member who had worked as a nurse attempted to perform an in-house castration on a fellow follower. This ad hoc kind of I guess you call it a surgery went badly and nearly causing the patient to die and proved way too disturbing,

even for some Heaven's Gate loyalists, with at least one member having fled the group in the aftermath of this poor event. Just a botched, misinformed surgery that just was like so fucked up that they were like, that's it. She wasn't even a surgeon, she was a former nurse. Dude, that's- And she was like,

I can do this. Like, that's, I mean, they had their their cult who are they gonna go to they only have themselves That's that's probably the closest person to a doctor they have sure. It's just heavy-duty man Yeah, and so after the heavy duty is correct. I don't so they didn't do like There's all sorts of different ways you could do it. They were like no we're gonna cut those things right off Yeah, yeah, they're like it's we're getting out to getting these fuckers off. But after this one close call, Applewhite decided to agree that maybe if we do this in the future, we should do it professionally.

And subsequent the next subsequent months, a handful of male disciples quietly went and obtained medical castrations at a hospital somewhere reportedly outside of the US. We don't know where it's probably Mexico, it seems. But Applewhite himself underwent the procedure as well. A step that for him underscored his total commitment to the principles he taught to me and also points to a next step of his self-hatred of himself. His whole story is the hatred of himself and this feels very like just the next way of his self hatred of himself. This whole story is the hatred of himself.

And this feels very like just the next way of him punishing himself, even if he's not doing it consciously. And by night after in March, 1997, after they've already killed themselves, autopsies would later confirm that multiple Heaven's Gate members, including the 65 year old Applewhite

showed surgical scarring. So like it like we confirmed by paperwork that, yes, they did this. It wasn't just rumor that this happened. Yeah. And within the group's belief system, this drastic step to them made perfect sense. If the human body was just a temporary container and sexual desire and obstacle to enlightenment, why not just remove that source of that desire? Another as one of the younger members using the name stimoti explained the surgery eliminated quote hormones that keep the body

Intoxicated stupid empty-headed and blind so, you know Totally brainwash again stimoti Stimoti stimoti, S-T-M-O-D-Y, Stimoti. Stimoti. Stimoti. Applewhite framed it as a means to sustain a more genderless and objective consciousness. In effect, castration was the ultimate and obviously irreversible act of devotion to the group's aesthetic ideals.

Another step where you're volunteering to do this and by doing so, there's, I mean, I can't imagine you do this and there's you see a way out of this cult at that point. If you go as far as to actually go and spend months to go get medically castrated in another country and back, like you've locked yourself in. You're like so tripled, quadrupled down, it's actually like, it's not impossible,

but man, I just don't see how that would work. It's symbolized in a way, absolute control over the group in a way, but more for, I think for Applewhite absolute control over his desires that he could no longer deal with dealing with internally. And apart from the extreme castration, Heaven's Gate in the 1990s continued many of the aesthetic experiments they practiced before they cycled through austere diets. At one point in 1994, the entire group undertook a master cleanse fast for weeks, consuming only lemonade with cayenne and maple syrup to reset their bodies. That's it. I mean, that still happens today. People use that cleanse. That's a very specific like I get it.

I've never done a cleanse like that. I can't imagine. It seems it seems like it's going to be good for you because it seems natural. But then you realize that you don't like do stuff like that naturally. Yeah. Your body. I mean, yeah. Even though it's like real stuff, it's not like that's what an animal would ever do to their body. Yeah, right exactly

Further on they also toyed with eccentric projects reflecting their focus on self-denial For example Applewhite. Yeah, it's me. He's fucking crazy, dude. Your balls are probably gone. So you probably you know, maybe you just oh They're definitely gone. Yeah. Yeah, so basically to the Applewhite launched an anonymous sexaholics An anonymous sexaholics, an anonymous sexaholic celibate church concept trying to repackage like support group for celibates and had members attend 12 step meetings for addicts hoping to find kindred people who yearn to overcome their sexuality in this weird fucking like, I don't know what he was trying to find there.

I don't know what the goal was, but he he did for a little bit. And these outreach experiments, I guess I call you to call them yielded no new converts at all. All they did was reinforce the idea. Evansgate offered a radical refuge for earthly indulgence if you couldn't stand being horny. And by the mid 1990s, the group truly saw itself as an elite monastic order.

Tell me I'm wrong. You can't stand being horny. Dude, he can't he hates the age the thoughts he hates being gay at the time he's in because he's not except can't It's either it's either you you go make Heaven's Gate or you invent corn flakes. You never know which one it's going to be but that's what always happens. One of the two. We should cover that dude at some point. Um,

they called their communal home a craft or classroom and viewed Apple white who's now exclusively called dough. And I can't wait till we play the clip of him and you hear, I just, I don't want to spoil as both teacher and father figure each action, no matter how mundane was kind of just practice for the next level. And concurrently with these lifestyle extremes, heaven gates theology in the 90s grew more apocalyptic and confrontational in the group's early years. As we've talked about T and O had hinted at doomsday scenarios, spoke of coming, a coming recycling of earth, how they would be killed and resurrected again.

After Nettles died in 1985, Applewhite was forced to adjust the doctrine again to account for her departure, quote unquote, and he began emphasizing that ascension might require leaving the human body as a refresher. And by the early 90s, he took this idea further, openly preparing his students for the possibility that, yeah, they might actually exit their

bodies intentionally in order to achieve the next level. This shift is evident in Heaven's Gate's language during the mid-90s. In 93, they published a document called the 88 Update, the UFO 2 and their crew, in which Applewhite reflects on the group's past and suggests that the door to the next level might not remain open indefinitely. And shortly thereafter, the group produced a video series titled Beyond Human, The Last Call, which we played a snippet of in the first episode, just so you could hear Applewhite's voice, which was aired via satellite broadcasts. And in these sessions, Applewhite spoke with unprecedented candor about the end times role

of his class and the need to overcome the fear of leaving the human world. While he stopped short of explicitly advocating suicide in these tapes, he primed his followers to accept that their human lives would not continue much longer. He described an approaching time when they would have to quote unquote drop their containers and ascend to a spacecraft, essentially revisiting that promise of the 1975 demonstration prophecy that never came true,

but now in a much darker form. Applewhite's talks also took on a more militant tone against the outside world, which is also pretty common of the end of cult leaders and their usual exit via death. He increasingly characterized Earth as irredeemably corrupt and controlled by evil forces, which he termed Luciferian or demonic in influence,

as we talked about last week. And in his view, human civilization was about to be spaded under, metaphorically plowed and reset by the next level. And in a dramatic 1996 videotaped sermon titled planet Earth about to be recycled. Your only chance to survive is to leave with us. That zinger of a title again.

Other than that, he basically sounds like an X-Men villain right now. Just so you know. He does. He really does. He warns, quote, just a reminder, this planet is about to be recycled. It is going to be refurbished, spaded under. The only chance to evacuate is to leave with the next level." And these statements mark a clear escalation in his rhetoric.

He was effectively telling his followers that the end of the world is imminent. They had a singular chance to escape destruction by coming with him. And Heaven's Gate teachings always steeped in like that weird kind of New Age expectation now turned unequivocally toward apocalyptic deadline. And by 1996, Applewhite was openly contemplating collective suicide as a spiritual strategy. Privately, the group had already rehearsed the idea. So, they're talking about this- Openly, to the public that they're leaving. It's like very obvious what they're talking about.

We're all going to kill ourselves. Based, correct. No, like dead ass or like a euphemism. They use exiting their vehicles. They use the term that they use internally. They speak about it as though they are sending and leaving, but it's not very subtle that that means killing themselves because their vehicle is their body and that's part of it. And yeah, privately, the group had already rehearsed this idea. That's a red flag. Like, isn't that like,

No shit, nobody stopped them. Like, nobody did anything about it. If I was in the group and he was like, and then, you know, we get out of the vehicle. You're like, is that the same vehicle that I, that I neutered? And he nods and he's like, yeah neutered and it is not. He's like, yeah, yes, it is. It's like brody. Don't worry about it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, exactly that man. Like in this very public. But the thing is like I said privately here's here's the answer to that question. Honestly, they had already began to kind of take on that idea very very slowly and they had read and discussed a best-selling euthanasia manual, Derek Humphrey's final exit to consider selling. Yes, like it just sold really well to consider the most effective

means of ending their lives. They even weighed a macro like a plan to provoke a fatal confrontation with authorities, uh, kind of directly drawing inspiration from Waco in 1993, by the way, like Waco directly inspired them for a bit, but rejected it as too chancey, like too chancey. It was just hilarious because if you watch the videos, they're all a bunch of fucking nerds. Like that's what they are. There's no way any of them would ever go fucking suicide by cop. That's just too scary for I think for them.

And instead, Applewhite, are you looking it up? Jesse, the final exit. I am. You can, you can literally get it on Amazon. How many does it have to be a best seller? Uh, I don't know, but it currently has 1,334 reviews, 4.5 stars. And it is is the quote is straightforward, speaks to the growing concern of most Americans newsweek. What? It's sold 120 it's old. It's sold one and a quarter million copies. I'm clabbergasted.

Hang on. Wait, I gotta go clarify. I'm just blown away that it's a best-selling euthanasia book. It's just not something you hear every day. Yeah. No, it's just depressed people. They even like I said, they even like so they've thought about fucking death by cop didn't work. So instead, Apple and the students methodically settled on a carefully managed suicide as the only way to evacuate this earth in the appropriate time

frame that was given in a final video discourse later known as Doe's final exit, which we will be listening to a piece of in a bit, Applewhite spoke calmly about the group's intention to depart their bodies by their own hand, framing it not as destruction, but as liberation. And by his reasoning, staying on earth in a human body would be the true suicide of the spirit because it meant turning down the invitation to ascend, taking one's life to the next level therefore was basically portrayed as a heroic act. That's a hard sell.

Yeah. Yeah, no shit. It's a very hard fucking sell. And it's also important to note that suicide was still a loaded term for Heaven's Gate. To address the issue, they published an essay on their website titled, Our Position Against Suicide. Against? Yes, yes, in 1996, in which they paradoxically argued that what humans call suicide

would not be suicide for them. The essay insisted that they loved life, but were simply exiting this world to serve God on a higher plane, which is akin to shedding an old garment The true meaning of suicide is to turn against the next level when it is being offered and he does a little swirmer Uno reverse card and he says are basically saying our position against suicide is our position of saying you're on earth Which is true suicide checkmate eight. So it's just like in like it's only cool and we do it basically, correct

Well, cuz they're not committing suicide. You're only committing you're committing suicide by not going with us suicide, checkmate, so it's just like in like, it's only cool when we do it basically. Correct. Well, cause they're not committing suicide. You're only committing, you're committing suicide by not going with us. Yeah. Because you're staying on earth and getting recycled and your soul is going to get recycled in that true suicide. We're ascending and in their eyes, their plan to exit was just a beginning. The moment of graduation that they had been working for, for decades.

This stance set the stage for what was to follow when a sign in the heavens finally appeared. Because in late 1996, a celestial event captivated the heavens group, the heavens gate group and confirmed Applewhite's apocalyptic timetable, the approach of comet Hale-Bopp. Yeah. This was discovered in 1995. And Haleale Bopp was due to pass closest to Earth in March 1997,

shining spectacularly bright in the sky. As public interest in the comet grew, so did fringe conspiracy theories, because humans are always going to be humans. And notably the claim that a mysterious companion object, a UFO, was following in Hale-Bopp's tail, and this rumor circulated on Art Bell's paranormal radio show Coast to Coast AM, baby! R? Art Bell? R? Art Bell? Art? Art? Art? And fueled by a misconstrued telescope image, of course, all electrified apple white.

And to Heaven's Gate, the symbolism of the comet was unmistakable This was the sign from Bonnie Nettles from T herself and the next level that the long-awaited pickup was finally at hand It didn't even matter if there was a literal spaceship hiding behind the comet or not They though they suspected there was of course the unusual and remarkable nature of Hale Bopp itself, visible to the whole world, convinced them that the time had come to finally leave Earth. And it's just like medieval. Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

Hold on. Before we even continue with any of this, I just got hit by the fact that if the whole point of this group, I'm not going to call him a call. We'll call it a group of like minded individuals. If the whole point, call him a squad. If the whole point of this squad was we are going to leave our bodies so we're not recycled and get out of here. How is there a dude on the YouTube video saying he's from this group? Well, remember, so Applewhite said that this is their chance to leave.

They don't know when the Earth is going to be recycled. Look, understood. But that was their chance to leave. Why would anyone join in the cult now? I'm sorry. Well, like my individual group. So why would you do that? Dance team. We'll get into it. We're going to get into it.

It just hit me. That seems like I want to ask this dude questions now. No, we'll get into their model. Does he think he's going to get on the like it's going to come back around? We'll get into it. It may. So just like let's let's get I don't want to spoil it right now. Sorry.

Sorry. We will just hit me like hold up now. Wait a minute. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's absolutely an extremely fair question that obviously gets answered. Don't worry.

We will get into it. Okay. All right. Obviously gets answered. I'm here for that. Yeah, the the the comma itself was enough. It was their sign. It reminds me of medieval times when they'd see a comet in the sky and they see it as an omen or something. It's like that same idea, the same mentality. Avatar the last airbender, of course.

Yeah, exactly. Thank you so much to today's sponsor, Hero Forge. I got no script for this, dude. This is just me and my unadul much to today's sponsor, Hero Forge. I got no script for this, dude. This is just me and my unadulterated nerdy love for Hero Forge. If you haven't heard me say it before, Hero Forge is something I used for years before they even got to work with us. I fucking love them. If you're a tabletop RPG or minis nerd like I am from both of those things,

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Let them know we sent you because I love nerdy stuff. I love companies that do nerdy stuff and really look out for their consumer and Hero4ge is absolutely that. Thank you so much to Hero4ge for sponsoring this. Thank you so much for just being an awesome freaking company. And also thank you so much for making my In early 1997, as Halebop grew brighter in the night sky each week, Heaven's Gate went to red alert internally. Applewhite announced to his students that this was it. The graduation that they had been preparing for in March of 1997, and preparing for was here.

And in March of 1997, they updated their website with a final impassioned message to the public titled, Hail Bop brings closure to Heaven's Gate. In it, the group declared, quote, here, let me just go ahead and have one of you boys read this. So this is a Hail Bop brings closure to Heaven's Gate. And this is what was inside this announcement part of it.

Is this from our boy? Oh, Applewhite, of course. All right. Whether Hale Bopp has a companion or not is irrelevant from our perspective. However, its arrival is joyously, very significant to us at Heaven's Gate. Our 22 years of classroom here on planet Earth is finally coming to conclusion. Graduation from the human evolutionary level, we are happily prepared to leave this world

and go with T's crew. Yeah, they're not even hiding anymore. They're just straight up like, yeah, we're out of here, boys. This is it, we're done. Did no one try to intervene? A couple people tried, like people that knew where they were,

but we'll hear a little bit. There were people that were genuinely so excited that they were like a giddy that this was happening, and it didn't matter. These people, remember, as we talked about last week and kind of the mentality that Apple, Apple white kind of created amongst them with this almost like optional, always optional staying

and just like this loop, what we're down to, we're whittled down to the last 30 so people that are just pure dedicated. And like, as dedicated as you can get. There's full hype. Yeah, they're all in. Basically all in like, if they admit that it's not right, their existence is to exist, so they're just in.

Yeah, and there are those that I don't think really believed fully what was going on, but were too deep and too lost that they couldn't get out. Scared. Yeah, when we listen to a couple of pieces of the audio, you'll see. So this statement, honestly, encapsulates their mindset very, very clearly. This was put up on the eve of their death.

It was joy, relief, unwavering resolve. After years of discipline waiting, they believed the cosmic window had opened. The Hale-Bopp comet was the green light for their departure from their departed leader T and the level above human to proceed to the next phase. Appleway also tied the timing to biblical prophecy of course to reassure his flock. He pointed out that the comment called Kohutek in 1973 had coincided with his and T's initial revelation of their mission. And yeah, I mean back in 1973, Nettles had speculated briefly that Co-Tech was maybe a heart-bringer

for them, but like it was just like a bypassing thought. It wasn't, it's just something he's able to grab onto and use to make this feel more weight than there actually is. And now another comet was here to bookend their journey. And in Applewhite's eyes, the two, himself and T, had come full circle. They started their ministry with a comet and would end it with a comet. He reminded his followers of the early promise that the founders might have to be martyred and resurrect the so-called demonstration, and that scenario had long been deferred.

But the Hail Bop Comet, the initial idea of departing Earth outside of human bodies, returned in full force, and the difference now was that all the students were to participate in the laying down of their vehicles and their ascendancy. Not just Applewhite or tea. This was an essence planned mass ritual death like in a very weird religious almost magic way cast not as a tragedy at least externally, but as transcendence. And then a final group meetings before March, 1997, Applewhite described in detail how the graduation would unfold. There are indications that he framed it in almost celebratory terms. They were preparing for the exit earth.

They were preparing to exit earth and rendezvous with the spacecraft that would ferry them off to the next level. and each member was given a chance to voice any doubts or ask any last minute questions. And while some questions- Hey, uh, real quick, uh, do you think this is all just like a big cult that's kind of gotten out of hand and we're all just doing this because we don't know what else to do and it's a huge mistake?

No, man, don't worry about it. Okay, okay, okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, OK, OK, OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Game time, game time, game time, game time. If you ever decide to torture yourself and go listen to some of the question and answers, it's an exercise in watching a man to say nothing for 10 minutes to answer a question and never actually answering the question. Oh, I follow the news. Don't worry.

Fair enough. Fair enough. Is it that question over and over again? And not answer? Not really. It's. Is it that question over and over again? Not really it's kind of like softball questions and just everybody's too like it's like too late for a lot of people in their mind One member in a farewell video Liking the comments arrival to the arrival of a bus that they'd been waiting decades to catch the bus to heaven, baby They truly believe that by the time Hale-Bopp slipped away into space, they would no longer be on Earth on their way to heaven, which was a physical place to them. Not everyone who followed Tiendo stayed until that final exit, though.

A few longtime members had peeled away from Heaven's Gate in the years before 97, and their personal stories kind of show a revealing light on the cult's powerful hold and its obvious limits. The two figures known as just for their sake, Sawyer and Frank, offer kind of counterpoints of doubt and loss that contrast with the perfect loyalty of those who graduated. And again, we'll hear a little bit of like the waveringness in their voices of their reply but of their final goodbye videos rather, but you'll never hear them say anything that goes against it and how creepy it is.

Sawyer, who was a member from 1975 to 1994, had been an utterly devoted individual for 18 years. He even rose to the rank of a group overseer, people who oversee to make sure nobody's getting sexy with each other and stuff. But human urges ultimately pulled him off the path in a moment of forbidden indulgence He later credited with his saving his life. He snuck a peek at a TV and found himself mesmerized by images of women on MTV The cult mandated strict celibacy even as a sexual thought was a serious lapse.

And overwhelmed by the surge of long suppressed desire, Sawyer broke a major rule, and man, he literally just jerked off. An act that filled him with guilt. Not by Sawyer, no! But in a moment of post-nut clarity he had the realization that he could no longer come in a cult yes he literally came that was wait that was better than anything I've been fucking five years it's coming he totally overcame the cult script oh I thought you're about to say he came to a conclusion

I totally overcomers is the joke I went to this I was I'm there with you either with you a hundred percent It literally out of both you guys in a moment of post of clarity. He realized shit. He couldn't do this shit anymore This was too rigid that felt too good essentially He literally like I couldn't do the suppression of human nature anymore rule. That's so Everybody jerked off one time how many more people would have been fucking saved by this shit. I asked that question every day It's a very good question that should be held to everybody's standards knowing that this personal failure barred him from the coming ascension now and desperate to avoid the extreme step, the extreme step of, you know, removing your nuts.

He made the agonizing decision to leave the group, saying, I told Doe, I feel like I need to leave the group. He didn't sound agonizing, my guy. So he got me a plane ticket and gave me $600 for a new start. Yeah. Apple wake him 600 bucks. I don't know. That's like 1994 money. So it's probably still not much more than 600 bucks, but Hey, he's like, yeah, coming's pretty good. Yeah. I love it. I can't believe that's MTV is what got this dude. You know what?

Yeah, he saw that video of what is that? That money for nothing. The animation from like 1989. He was like, oh shit. Oh, I gotta get out of here. In later talks with him, he kind of would refer to himself in self-deprecating manners, calling himself a pitiful person for lacking the strength to graduate with his classmates. I don't say he'd be able to.

He fucking saved himself. And he does feel- No, he's fine. He says he feels a bittersweet regret, a lingering belief that Heaven's Gate promises were real, but coupled with the knowledge that his friends died without him, quote, I could have graduated with them. I believe that 100%. Tien Do gave us the instruments to brainwash ourselves, actually wash out our humanness

from our mind. Like the fact that he actively uses the word brainwash, but he means it in a literal like washing the brain. I mean, that gets me. He phrases it in a perception of a good thing. Yeah. Yeah. He thinks it was like cleaning the brain. So he he still kind of has a guilt about it. His story obviously kind of just shows that there was like he fully didn't believe 100% clearly if coming once was like all it took.

I guess like, I don't think he fully believed. And then we have the other individual Frank. Now he offers another window into the mindset of a defector one that's colored by heartbreak instead of horniness. He spent 18 years in Heaven's Gate nearly half of his life by that point and by the early 1990s. He was deeply embedded in the group's insular world. But in the summer of 1993 on the cusp of his 19th year with the cult, Frank was struck

by what he describes as a gut feeling that he could not ignore. He literally says, it was this deep gut felt misgiving. I just knew I couldn't remain in the cult anymore. He recalls like a strange intuition that hit him out of nowhere. Acting on that instinct, he made the wrenching decision to leave and to beg for his long-time girlfriend, also a fellow member, to come with him. He left the compound and returned to his parents' home,

trying to rediscover normal life as best he could after nearly two decades under Doe's strict guidance. And just two days after he fled, Frank's beloved Erica, whom he calls the love of his life, phoned him in tears. She pleaded with him to reconsider and return to the call. And Frank in turn implored her to break free and joined him on the outside.

And neither could persuade the other. Frank remembered by saying the call ended and ending as bitter as it was kind of prophetic, much like Erica's life would end a little more than three years later. And in March 1997, Erica was among the third one of the 39 Heaven's Gate members who took her life and to ascend. And when news of the suicide hit, Frank was overwhelmed with grief and guilt saying it was a very emotional time for me feeling the loss of all of my friendships who I'd been with for 18 years because he had all those 39 people he knew deeply even told people magazine.

That's what he told people magazine describing how it felt to recognize each familiar face among the dead and in the aftermath Frank was tormented by the thought that he might have saved Erica even with 20 years of reflection. by the thought that he might have saved Erica, even with 20 years of reflection, he admits that he wished he pushed harder to get her to leave than when he had the chance. But that's the survivor's guilt, you know, like that's tough. It's impossible to break through to somebody who doesn't actually want to be broken through to. And Frank's story just once again, kind of just shows the human cost of Heaven's Gate that he escaped with his life, but lost the woman that he loved and dozens of his close friends. I was gonna say yeah a lot of other people died, too Yeah, like everybody he knew and only knew for he was part of the group when they went to 16 years of seclusion

Like he basically trust me brode all the way down to the bottom of like rock bottom Yeah, and then everybody who stayed with him too long fucking died Yeah, he literally had that moment of like, it's now or never, do I really want to risk this shit? So insane. In the weeks leading up to their planned exit, Heaven's Gate members undertook a series of carefully organized final tasks.

One crucial assignment from Doe was that each student prepare a farewell message on video. And beginning around March 19th, 1997, they recorded what would later be known as the exit statements, individual goodbye testimonies to the world. In these video statements, some filmed in pairs, others solo, the Heaven's Gate devotees

appear astonishingly cheerful, serene, and resolute at times. They address their families, former friends, future or future audiences with gratitude, conviction, explaining that they're about to leave this world by their own choice and joyously so for many. Many of them explicitly say that no one is pressuring them that this is the greatest honor for them to shed their human body vehicle and that they know this is the right step. Their demeanor is upbeat, often smiling and even joking. And as one commentator who viewed the tapes described this,

that they said they were heartfelt but visibly elated farewells. And this is just truly, it's really weird to listen to. I listened to a majority of them, like a good couple of hours, but I did not listen to all of them. You know, it's a fascinating look into human psychology, I think. And to be able to look at some and see who you really are, true believers

and others who are, I think, just fucking trapped and they don't have any way out in their eyes. It's really kind of creepy, too. And the content of these messages is weird. Over and over, the members refer to their upcoming death as graduation, moving on to the next level. They thank Applewhite for guiding them. Some make lighthearted quips that kind of show an inner peek at the group's weird sense

of humor that they that hadn't actually abandoned them. And one longtime member, Joan Odey, extends her exit speech with a playful 39 to beam up a Star Trek reference, obviously alluding to 39 of them that were about to fucking kill themselves. Boss baby vibes on Star Trek. Yeah. It's really true. It's the only thing they've ever seen.

And the others around her laugh and applaud at that when she does that. Another member looks directly into the camera and says, we're all choosing our own free will to go to the next level. I couldn't be happier. Several specifically address X members who had left the group urging them not to doubt or regret the heavens gate teachings just because of what was about to happen and then sorority for instance, speaks of former classmates and advises them to trust their personal

experience of the tea and dough rather than the media's portrayal of the graduation. In all of these statements, there is a repeated theme of joy, confidence, and clarity. The speakers appear almost unnervingly at peace with the drastic action that they're about to undertake. Their words carry this weird undertone that we know something the world doesn't,

and we're excited to prove it to you all as many cults do. In 1997- That's so dark. it is dark. It gets so dark in March of 1997, just before their plan departure, heavens gate members recorded all their fellow one that farewell messages. And we're going to go through some of these right now in these exit statements. Like I said, they explained why they were joyful and grateful. Um, and this first one we're going to play is of a guy who is utterly ecstatic genuinely that he's out of here. He's sitting next to, if you recall which the videos, he's like the first one on the video.

The guy on the right is the one that's talking. He's utterly ecstatic and the guy on the left looks dead. And like in the camera, he's like expressionless and he looks like he is disassociated from the whole thing. So we're gonna play this first piece of audio for you now. Okay, before we move on to Questodi, one last question. How do you feel about what is ahead for us? This is the happiest day of my life.

I mean, we've been looking for this for so long. Some would probably sit here, and somebody on the other side of this camera watching this tape would probably sit here and, I mean, somebody on the other side of this camera watching this tape would probably say, what's going on? You all must not have a life, or you're deluded, or you're brainwashed, or whatever the thinking might be. It's hard to tune into. From our perspective, from my perspective, this is, this is,

that's it. I mean, this is, this is the answer to everything. You know, these, these flesh vehicles, I mean, if you use the analogy of a car and, you know, people may keep their cars for a long time before they finally wear out and they clunk out and they die on them and, you know, they go and get another car.

Or some people, they say, well, you well now here's a newer model it's much nicer and this one you know doesn't quite perform the way I could I'd like to move into this new car get rid of the old one get a new one I mean that's not all we're talking about it's not a big deal I'm talking too long so I'll pass up and that is the end bit of about a 15 minute ramble where he calls out preacher Copeland, Copeland, whatever his name is, because he's like greedy for money and stuff.

It's wild. It's a wild rambling that he goes on forever. Yeah, yeah, go ahead. Thoughts, thoughts, I'm curious. I mean, like, I do kind of feel that like Copeland and all those dudes definitely are like the bad side of Christianity. No, it's like, good point, dude.

Now he's going to go kill yourself, I guess. All right. Awesome. Yeah. That's wrong. You know what I mean? I mean, I guess that's, that's the way, you know, cults and or conspiracy theories. Like there's always a little bit of truth.

That's how you can sell the insanity of it. Yeah, absolutely. Like you can say, well, all of these, all these other religions are bad and we're correct because of these guys who are doing bad things when really it's not everybody, but you can say that because then it justifies what you're doing. Yeah. Um, it definitely had the, uh, like even though there was a cheerful note into what he was saying and he was all smiles, I definitely had like a little something's wrong vibe to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, actually go into this next one. Listen, you're going to hear her,

this woman's voice crack and the reaction from the people around is what's really creepy. So while he was, couldn't be happier and was super excited. Let's listen to an excerpt from a different tape. Okay we have Janotty and Livotty with us today. Livotty on the left, Janotty on the right. How long have the two of you been in this classroom circumstance? Well Janotty and I, both these vehicles ended up being a couple that were in Oregon in 1975. We took these two vehicles. You have probably heard of the news media story in 1975 about a bunch of people disappearing from Walport, Oregon. Well, we are still here, not for long.

We are very happy and proud to have been members of Tito's class and couldn't be Happy about what we're about to do And Yeah, so you can hear she makes a joke initially saying where we you know, we went missing Well, we're right here and then you might not have heard it because they were laughing and she goes but not for long And then continues on and you can hear her voice. You, and you watch the video, she's like about to cry.

She's cracking and everybody around her just laughs at that and like makes it like funny, almost like, well, what are you laughing for? Like, I don't, I don't really know. Like it's just very creepy and kind of strange, but it immediately shows not everybody wanted to do this. There's no way in hell you watch that video and listen to her and say that she was, you know, Lovati over there was excited to be fucking leaving this place.

Yeah. That's sad, too. Man, it's sad. It's so sad. It's tragic. It's fucking messed up. And obviously, Applewhite also recorded his own final exit message called Doe's final exit filmed just days before the suicide and We're gonna exit. We're gonna play a game This is not the whole thing. I actually did edit it down But we're gonna play a game will we reach the end of the audio first or will you tap out beforehand?

Because I can end it if you tap it out beforehand And this is again, days before the suicide, Applewhite's goodbye message. There is an end. It's not like 10 minutes or anything. Is this Applewhite now? Yeah, this is his final goodbye and his final goodbye is about 45 minutes long.

And this is, this isn't even 10, I'm going to tell you right now, it's not even 10 minutes of it. It's less than 10 minutes by a good chunk. We'll see if you tap out or we reach the end. Here we go. This is March 19, 1997. And I'm Doe.

Some called our partnership Ti and Do. That's not my name, but that's how I'm referred to on planet Earth at this time. I've been talking to my students that are sitting in front of me about talking to you. And let me say that our mission here at this time is about to come to a close in the next few days. We came from distant space and even what some might call, and we're about to return from whence we came. And I say that when we say we came from a distant space, that we're talking about what your religious literature would call the Kingdom of Heaven,

or the Kingdom of God. And we came for the express purpose to offer a doorway to the Kingdom of God at the end of this civilization, the end of this age, the end of this millennium. And now that we're about to return, just a few things we wanted to say to you. And of course we are aware that if you have not been given an ingredient of knowledge, information by that kingdom, then you certainly will have no capacity to know that I'm telling you the truth, or that this information has any validity.

If you do know, when you hear what we're talking about, and when you study the information that we're leaving behind, that it has truth in it, and if you see yourself as a part of it, then you have to respond according to what you feel. We came from that time, that space, entered this room. I can't be expecting this to go somewhere. And we're gonna get some like something and he just is like. It's like Alice in Wonderland. Are you tapping out? Uh, yeah, fuck it.

I don't wanna listen to this anymore. Jesse, would you like to tap out or not yet? Yeah, I'm fine. Nothing that we haven't already talked about on this show. He's talking about that him and her like got together again. Like still. He's like still just staying the first thing that he was saying. Yeah, that isn't even...

You didn't even make it five minutes. That was the longest. However long that was. Three minutes or so of it. That was... And that's hours and hours and hours of just that of just that He's basically you listen to it all this goodbye message. I did because it's less than an hour luckily Did you did you get the sense that he wanted to do it? I listen to his goodbye message

I didn't listen to I've listened to hours of him I haven't listened to every single video that like exists of him giving speeches It kind of gets it. I didn't you know, obviously, yeah, I don't listened to every single video that like exists of him giving speeches. It kind of gets it. I didn't, you know, obviously I only listened to five minutes, but where my head was at during that was that he's kind of reasoning it out for himself. Like he's like kind of bargaining with himself whether or not he wants to go through with it. That's how it felt to me, but I don't know.

When he says, you know, my name is Doe and like, when he says that on the video, if you watch it, what he does is he goes, my name is doe. And he lifts his hands up and like, uh, I guess that's fucking my name. And the slaps you hear is you hear the slap of his hands coming up and going down and like, like, like, and I guess that's exactly how I heard it was just kind of like, he kind of thinks that's dumb even. Yeah, exactly. He, it's so, he's lost his give a shit in every way. He does not care anymore. And he just goes on and on, like I said,

it's the only way to evacuate Earth, we're happy to leave, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And this tape, along with all the students exit statements were, was left cued up to be discovered by whoever would inherit the group's legacy. Cause beyond the videos, the Heaven Gate members put great care into practical preparations for their departure too. They settled financial affairs, paid off outstanding bills, and even got mundane

matters in order. Like police later found that the group had paid their final rent, utility bills, and even library fines in advance, leaving no loose ends. I mean, they're not monsters. Yeah, right? Yeah, exactly. They paid off their library fines that they had. I don't. It's so weird. All right. They neatly packed bags and suitcases for each person as if preparing for a trip. Each member was instructed to carry a few rolled quarters and a five dollar bill in their short shirt pockets. This odd little detail was both practical and also symbolic.

The money was said to be for paying any tolls or fines on their way out. A final bit of Heaven's Gate humor referring to an old joke that five dollars covered a vagrancy fine and quarters could make phone calls. Just basically about how they lived through the nomadic life and they only needed five bucks to survive. And even their uniforms were carefully chosen and personalized. All 39 prepared matching outfits. Black sweatpants and tunic shirts with patches that read, Heaven's Gate Away Team. Remember the Star Trek joke that they made before.

A reference to, yeah, that Star Trek stuff. They also had their brand new black and white Nike Decade sneakers, identical shoes symbolizing a unity and reportedly bought on sale in bulk. It appears the group wanted to present themselves as a coherent professional away team. It's like they cosplayed with like sheep like Starfleet. Yeah, they tried to make a uniform. This is what I'm getting here. And around March 21st, why can't I stop thinking about Galaxy?

Like, I know we just keep talking about Galaxy Quest on this fucking show. Yeah. But like the plot of that movie is that a alien race sees only broadcasts of basically Star Trek and then copies it. And that becomes their religion. It's awesome. That's what it feels like. It really does. It really feels like that. You're not wrong. Yeah, they are. Around March 21st, 1997, having completed the recordings and ready the materials, the group had a final celebratory meal together. All 39 went out to a favorite restaurant.

Marie calendars in Carlsbad, California. Hell yeah. The old Carlsbad Marie calendars. That's his favorite place. Yeah, just get like a chicken pot pie, call it a life man. Yeah man, they wore their modest street clothes, nothing flashy, and according to the restaurant manager, they were an excellent enthusiastic spirits. They all ordered the exact same thing, a hearty last supper of turkey pot pie, salad, ice tea, and a cheesecake for dessert and they pull after all that off after all that non-pleasure yes man measurable thing they could only the masturbation man had a hung in there

maybe you could add one night where he like let it is weird that they would say you know what's our last night on earth let's like that would be like if your whole thing was I am Celeb it forever But before I die I'm bad order me up one of them prostitutes like Why what would be the point? It's like all it's all bullshit then right almost like it's just all fucking bullshit And they all just don't want to be here anymore And over several days in late March of 97, Heaven's Gate carried out their final act, a carefully orchestrated mass suicide

inside a luxurious mansion in Rancho Santa Fe, California. The deaths occurred in coordinated shifts or waves, allowing some members to assist others before taking their own lives. Investigations later determined the sequence. It went like this. The suicides began on March 22nd and continued into March 23rd and 24th,

happening in three groups. In the first wave, approximately 15 members swallowed a lethal dose of barbiturate sedatives, phenobarbital, mixed into sweet pudding or applesauce, their choice, and washed it down with vodka to accelerate absorption. After consuming this mixture, they then lay down

on prepared bedding and placed plastic bags over their heads, and the plastic bag was a fail-safe to induce asphyxiation once they lost consciousness from the drugs. Each person who exited in this manner was attended by a partner still waiting for their turn. Once the drugs had taken effect and respiration ceased, fellow members would remove the plastic bags from the face to ensure no unsightly suffocation evidence for the next level of reception, and then gently drape a purple cloth shroud over the upper half of the body. The purple shroud, about a square yard of fabric for each, was another ritualistic element evoking perhaps a royal or sacred covering of some sort. It simultaneously provided a modicum of privacy and uniformity

in death still. Each successive wave of suicides was carried out with the same meticulous procedure. The second group of about 15 disciples repeated the process after tidying up from the first wave. And finally, a third group of nine, which included Applewhite himself, went last. Marshall Applewhite was one of the final three to die, a deliberate choice that allowed him to oversee the event until the end, basically making sure everybody did in fact kill themselves, and alongside him were two of his closest associates, both long-time female members that remained by his side during this. And after Applewhite ingested the poison, these two women helped cover his head with a plastic bag and stood by as he passed.

They then removed the bag and tenderly arranged a purple cloth over his lifeless body. Their beloved teacher now at exit. And the two women then proceeded to take the barbiturate vodka mix themselves, lay down next to each other, and likely pulled bags onto their own heads in this final moment. And being the last ones alive, they died with the body bags still on, the only ones found with their plastic on their faces since no one remained to remove them. In this way, all 39 members, 21 women and 18 men ranging from 26 years old to 72 methodically

ended their earthly lives over a roughly 72 hour period. When authorities eventually entered the house on March 26, 1997, they were met with the surreal and haunting scene. 39 bodies lay neatly on bunk beds or mattresses, all dressed in identical black clothing with identical Nike shoes covered from head to torso in purple shrouds. Each person had a small travel bag next to them and the symbolic $5 bill and rolls of quarters in their pocket. The house was spotless and calm,

and there were no signs of struggle or disarray. Investigators found a typewritten checklist that the group had created, laying out each step of the exit plan and apparently ticked off as completed. By each bed, there was a glass and a spoon from mixing the poison alongside with a plastic bag, either on the bed or nearby. It was evident that the whole operation had been planned like a military campaign. Very precise, cooperative, and eerily calm. The county coroner later confirmed the cause of death for all as an ingestion of a lethal sedative combined with alcohol leading to respiratory failure. Many also showed signs of asphyxia from the plastic bags used as a backup. The time of death ranged from over three days, consistent with the stage groups.

Applewhite, age 65 at the time, was found lying on a bed in the master bedroom, a purple cloth draped over his upper body, in line with his own teachings of self-erasure. He was not set apart in any special way except for lacking the armband patch that read away team. Only the students wore those. He looked just like the others in death, basically.

Another crew member who had boarded the craft, quote unquote. When the bizarre truth of Heaven's Gate burst into the open in late March, it triggered a media firestorm, unlike anything seen for a cult tragedy since Jonestown. Sheriff's deputies who entered this Rancho Santa Fe mansion on the 26th were met with that horrible scene And television crews and reporters from around the globe almost immediately descended on the site

Filming one of the most X-Files real crime scenes ever Yeah, they were filming every angle of story they could the image of those identical Nike sneakers peeking out from under purple cloth Became an instant media icon splashed on front pages and looping endlessly on TV news. And that's how I remember that. That was crazy. It was on TV. The public was hell, obviously horrified, but they were, as people are with true crime, morbidly fascinated. Who were these people? Like, how could they seemingly like just leave and commit suicide if

they're intelligent Americans? Like the UFO rendezvous was really what caused them to do this. None of this made sense to basically any normal person on the outside. And in the immediate aftermath headlines range from shocked to sensational. Many outlets highlighted the space alien beliefs and the odd details like the Nikes and the cults homemade away team patches and almost jesting tones, which is why we look at Heaven's Gate the way we do on the outside in pop culture. And the tragedy spawned a barrage of like dark humor in pop culture. We said the quote, the joke started right away, even though 39 people had died. One retrospective article noted

saying Heaven's Gate felt ripe for ridicule. And it's true. Late night host David Letterman delivered her top 10 list of signs you are in a bad cult. Saturday Night Live performed a skit parading the bizarre event. It's just like the Rayleons had their like SNL bit. Yeah.

It's like so weird. Yeah, exactly. One website snarked about the group's footwear with a twist on Nike's slogan, Just Did It. Even the Heaven's Gate computer business was mocked. We killed ourselves working for you. Within days, Applewhite's eerily wide-eyed face, captured in the group's recruitment videos, was splashed across TV screens everywhere

and newscasters spoke of hail bop cult and bizarre UFO suicide with a mix of shock and hilarious titillation. At the same time, more sober coverage unfolded as families and experts tried to make sense of the nightmare they had just been introduced to. Grieving relatives who had long lost contact with their loved ones suddenly found themselves in the media glare. In California, Mark Applewhite, the estranged son of Heaven's Gate's leader, gave a public statement of apology and sorrow on behalf of his family.

Quote, I am appalled by the things that have resulted from the actions of my father, he would say. I am deeply hurt that people now have lost their lives in connection to my father. My sympathy and prayers go out to all of those who are suffering the loss of their loved ones and his words just show like the anguish and confusion of relatives who like him, he himself is one had often been cut off by heavens gate doctrine of severing family ties. And other families echoed this mix of heartbreak and complete confusion to

the daughter of one Evans gate victim lamented the senselessness of it all, telling reporters, quote, there was a lot of infighting over various things with everyone grabbing out onto money and not looking at a purpose if there was any. A bitter, like just an observation of the aftermath and like kind of a critique of how even in death these cult members wishes were overshadowed by earthly squabbles, no matter how much that was like their goal to get away from. And in the days and weeks after the suicides, cult experts and scholars were trotted out on the talk shows and news programs to explain

how ordinary people fall into such extreme millenarian beliefs, which is something like we're doing now in a way, right? Like we're we are not we're just we're Internet clown version of this thing. You know, that's just what we are. And many commentators defaulted to the notion of brainwashing or a pied piper guru controlling helpless followers. However, there are some scholars that push back

on that oversimplification, which I agree with, because they said it was too easy to just dismiss them as nuts. This was something actually the author of the book I read, Benjamin Zeller specifically pointed out. He was a religious studies professor, just so you know who he was before all this. And these individuals were not like stupid or insane. I don't really think they were. They were just earnest seekers looking for something they could believe in that they found a comfort in in heaven's gate.

Sociologists also noted in other studies how the group provided a sense of purpose and community to members that were just disillusioned with mainstream media, religion, tapping into a long American tradition of apocalyptic communities. Like that's just also very common out here. But I, you know, I'd like to think when we're coming at this, I like to look at the trauma aspect of it,

where this man is living out his trauma through these people, because they know how to process the things he's going through. We talked about that in depth last week. We don't really need to go over it again. But I think that's a very relevant way at looking at the tragedy of this thing. It's like a separation from reality and like the things that would stop you from doing this. Like, it speaks to his perception of what is going on at this point that we have this fucking weird. And obviously, debate sprung up in the media about cult psychology, the influence of science fiction, trying to find the scapegoat that could pin blame for all this, and the growing prominence of the internet and spreading fringe beliefs obviously quick took quick note from the media. Amid the sensationalist aspects, there was genuine soul searching too, like how had this happened on American soil and could it happen again?

And as the author of the book, Zeller observed, the impulses that led people to Heaven's Gate, yearning for truth, meaning and belonging are enduringly human qualities. The Heaven's Gate tragedy thus just kind of forced America to look at the uncomfortable intersection of faith and delusion in modern life. Something that never will ever go away, I don't think,

as long as humans continue to be humans as we are. And throughout that entire spring of 97, the Heaven's Gate mass suicide just dominated headlines and airwaves. For a brief moment, those 39 individuals, once living in secretive seclusion, became posthumously famous with their final act scrutinized by everyone from tabloid journalists to theologians.

But as with most news, other stories soon took over. In today's day, it probably lasted a week before we move on to something else. After a burst of morbid curiosity and mourning over those months, including a People magazine cover story devoted to the cult, the public did move on. That's crazy. Yeah. The rented mansion, now a crime scene, was eventually bulldozed to deter Gawkers. And by Easter of that year, just days after the bodies were discovered, local residents

in Rancho Santa Fe were chatting about holiday parades as if eager to put the Hail Bop Heaven's Gate thing just behind them. I would be too if I was a fucking dude, like just trying to have a normal life, yeah. Yeah, well despite their best efforts, the Heaven's Gate legacy ended up living on quietly but persistently in the years to come, thanks largely to the efforts

of the group's surviving believers. Notably, the Heaven's Gate group left behind evidence of their mindset even in those final moments. Investigators discovered their daily logbook, the group kept, titled the COM Center Daily Log in which members signing out for the last time had written remarks like gone by or even joking joking references like Asta Lavista baby, the sign off of one of the members, uh, Gluenody quoted arts Arnold Schwarzenegger's Terminator 2 and details under these details kind of just show and underscore that the participants approached their exit with a

sense of playfulness and triumph without despair, at least outwardly. They really, some of them truly felt like they were graduating. And as one of the gate member had put in this farewell, we're all choosing to exit by our own choice. Extremely happy. But the But the surviving Heaven's Gate members do exist and this is what I'm like, where I think we can answer your questions here, Jesse, as to what exactly is going on here. Not all Heaven's Gate member adherents died.

March of 1997, a handful survived called the Last Call, either by leaving the group shortly before the end or by being tasked to stay behind. Two members in particular, Mark and Sarah King had been devoted followers who left the Communal Fold in the late 1980s under complicated circumstances, but never fully abandoned their faith.

In fact, Mark and Sarah were entrusted with the sacred duty by Applewhite and Bonnie to act as custodians of Heaven's Gate's message on Earth after the cult had exited. And in the wake of the mass suicide, they assumed that stewardship of the cult's remaining materials and spiritual mission. Operating under the name the Tila Foundation, remember Tila being the acronym for the Evolutionary Level Above Human, this couple became, in essence, the executors of Heaven's Gates

estate guardians of its website, writings and memory. And one of their first moves was to secure the group's intellectual property. Mark and Sarah, now sometimes identified as Mark and Susan and other reports, negotiated to purchase Heaven's Gates writings, videos and artworks from the authorities for a mere $2,000. This ensured the legacy of Applewhite and Nettles and the class would remain under the care of true believers rather than sensationalist profiteers. They also took control of the cult's now infamous website, heavensgate.com, which contained the doctrinal essays and statements the

group had published online before their exit. And remarkably, instead of letting the site vanish in obscurity, the Kings have kept it running continuously since 1997, and in almost literal fulfillment of Heaven's Gate's teaching, the website was a vehicle for the group to live on in cyberspace, even as its members shed their human vehicles in real life.

Even decades later, visiting heavensgate.com, you could do it right now, is kind of like stepping into a weird time capsule. And from March of 97, the design and content remain frozen in that era. A perfectly preserved 90s website with plain HTML pages, purple heaven scape backgrounds and the cult's final writings available to read. Mark and Sarah see to it that really they don't want anything changed or updated except when answering the occasional inquiry from a curious visitor. In fact, they've actively they actively respond to email sent to the site still as far as

I've been able to discover usually within a couple of days. It seems they'll even answer your questions via email said a journalist that went looking from vice and by all accounts they take this role seriously they considered a duty to make sure heavens gate information remains accessible to those who seek it they say quote we do this to make the information available to those who are interested in learning about it planting seeds into the future so that people can get familiar with the ways of the next level and prepare for an eventual return. In their belief system, the earth may have missed its window in 1997, but there will

be another opportunity when next level beings, perhaps even Applewhite himself, will be coming back. The website is in their eyes, just a repository of a vital knowledge for the future aspirants. To answer your question, Jesse, he might be coming back one more time before the recycling happens and when he does, he's here to scoop people up just one more time. The true believers. So essentially what happened here, all the original cultists are dead, But copycat cult like version 2.0 cultists want to be cultists. Took over and we're like, hey man, that seemed like a really cool idea.

Let's do that pretty much. But they were like they were they were good. They were told explicitly by Apple white and nettles to do it. Remember they were told when they exit, you're taking over. You need to be continuous. You need to be here to take over. Is there a good record of that? What purpose?

Because he might come back in his new body and come get everybody one more time. Hold up. Hold up. You're telling me the dude who said if you don't join us right now, you'll be recycled. Said, you know what? But if not, but if not, I'll come back and get y'all before you're like one more time JK one more Over the years over the years they've garden with jerk-off guy. I would have left immediately Drinking off rules. I'm out these people the two of these guys rarely give interviews They prefer to let the site speak for itself.

But on the few occasions that they have spoken through media, which you can dig up, their words reveal that their faith, T and Doe remains on shaking, saying this, quote, Doe will return to this planet. He has been here many times before, pushing mankind along. So they just remember he's the the Jesus inside a really weird body. Um, weird ideas if that's what's going on right now. Yeah. And also this website proves anything. If this website proves anything,

it's literally that they don't know, uh, what his like fashionable and web design. No, absolutely not. I don't know. So he has been here many times. Remember, remember, he is he is not Jesus specifically, but the being is the being that would go in the body. That's fine. Come back. Why would I just like crazy, crazy question? I know this is wacky. Maybe the guy who responded on the video will let us know If he was Jesus and set up a whole religion, why come back and set up a whole new religion?

Wouldn't you continue the previous teachings, reestablishing them and correcting some of the mistakes that have happened over the last 2,000 years? Or would you rather start a new thing and kill people? Like, it doesn't make sense. Who else was this magic man? He had to awaken to himself. Remember he was having visions.

He didn't know really who he was. It was kind of like a weird piecing together. Okay understood. But if you awakened to his Jesusiness, why wouldn't he Jesusy instead of because it's a I'm going to make it difficult because it's a mixture of biblical but also Madame Blavatsky Theosophy, which is very the opposite of biblical in a lot of ways.

OK, then who else was it? Was he like also Buddha? Is going to be every guy here like he was everyone, dude. He was Cleopatra. He was everyone. I'm about to blow your mind because I think this is, you know,

we're getting as we get to the end here. We talked about, you know, how they were cocooned and became their own little space butterflies in the first episode. Sure, sure, sure sure sure sure I'm thinking don't use my fake religion against me. No. No, I think that's not what this is about This is about their fake religion. I think that might be a sign that you're actually the return of the apple white

I think you are actually not way too charismatic That's a thing. They mean that's one of the that's one of the flow That's what you know what you're right right yeah, that was it that was that's me yeah over the years these two wait, but I was alive when he was When he killed himself all right? Yeah, well sometimes magic works weird. That's not how it works You can't is you take over my soul, dude Maybe you were a dick move. Oh, maybe you were aren't the Jesus Spirit. Maybe you're the Holy Spirit Spirit. It's like Doctor Who, dude.

You're like it's like a different body. Like you traveled back. You know what I mean? Like you were born. But time has no meaning. And I am. Yeah. Well, how do you know that I'm not the past him?

If time has no meaning, you think you're the first one? Maybe maybe I'm the first one. That's what I'm going to be like, you know, be careful. That's what got that show in trouble in the past. Be careful. That's what I'm going to be like, you know what? Careful. That's what got that show in trouble in the past. Be careful. They didn't say that Bonnie was the father like the overhead God spirit in body and he's the Jesus.

So you might be the Holy Spirit. You might be the last part of the Trinity. I've always said I had the Holy Spirit in me. That could be it. I think that might be it. Yeah. These two people over the years have kind of guarded Heaven's Gates legacy through this website.

Other than that, in another interview, they also talked and referred to Marshall Applewhite in like a messianic way. They emphasize how level-headed and wise the two were, Applewhite and Nettles, countering the public perception of them as wild-eye fanatics. More tellingly though, like when asked about the weird like horrific end of all their friends and how they all killed themselves, they refused to describe it as a tragedy like of course they said quote everyone was quietly happy and fulfilled in that they were finally graduating into the next level uh in their view their classmates classmates I guess just succeeded uh it is the survivors who are left with the burden of life on earth this mindset kind of explains why they express no bitterness

about being left behind to maintain the website. They said they didn't have any of those feelings that they would be a very human response if they were upset about it and they're bitter about it and they're not. But in their characteristic absolutist language, they also add, don't worry, we will be taken care of. Whatever the fuck that means.

The other thing about them though is under Tila's leadership, their new stewardship, Heaven's Gate's online presence has also occasionally become a battleground to protect the community, the group's memory. And I mean this in that way. The Kings haven't hesitated in the past to take legal action against those attempting to exploit Heaven's Gate's name. In 1999, they sued a man named Chuck Humphrey, who was a Heaven's Gate sympathizer who himself attempted a copycat suicide. They sued him for using the cult's

name and logo to sell merchandise like t-shirts and coffee mugs. They got to protect that. They got to protect that brand. Yeah, they got to protect the brand. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh, they gotta protect that. They gotta protect that brand, dude. Yeah, they gotta protect the brand. Valuable stuff. Courts affirm that T-LAW are the sole legal heirs to Evansgate Estate, further solidifying that they're the keepers of the flame, so to speak.

And to this day, as far as I know, the two maintain a low profile, but they continue to maintain their weird missionary role and a guardian of the information on that website. There were also other post-1997 repercussions as well. Some briefly some some quick stuff. A few surviving members of the Associates of Hemisgates were unable to cope with being left behind. In the months following the Rancho Santa Fe event, at least three additional people died by suicide in apparent attempts to join Applewhite's crew.

Like even though it was too late technically in May of 1997, two former members, as we said once Chuck Humphrey, who was actually in the cult known as RK Cody, R K K Odie or Crowdy. I don't know how you would say that. And James Perry, just Odie. They both attempted a copycat suicide packed in a hotel near San Diego. Perry succeeded, Humphrey survived the initial attempt but felt spiritually bereft and eventually in February

of 98 took his own life as well and tragically. They left notes indicating they believed in Heaven's Gates teachings and wanted to reunite with their classmates on the spaceship. They lost all their fucking friends, man. That's the only thing they knew. Like, of course they're depressed. And such these incidents, just like the lingering depression

of like just Applewhite's absolute desire to just influence and make people feel the way he felt about the world. And now these people who literally built their lives around these people, now they're all gone and they're expected to just like live life. it's fucking impossible for some people to do that uh and obviously just broader culture and pop culture heaven's gate has kind of become a little complex on the one hand you obviously have like they're remembered for the nike's and the sensationalist headlines and his crazy face plastered everywhere uh and and in heaven's Gate is like in a way a case study in an extreme millennial religion raising

like questions about how charismatic do you really have to be to lead a cult honestly? Because I kept coming to the conclusion that I don't think Applewhite was really all that charismatic no matter what people fucking told me. But it shows that you don't really need to be super charismatic if a message can resonate deeply enough with somebody who is vulnerable and grasping for any sort of solid ground under their feet. And today, the mansion in Rancho Santa Fe has long been demolished and remodeled and sold to new owners with little to even distinguish it as the site of the event.

The website is still in Durs. Like I said, hail, but the one still proclaiming hail bop brings closure to heaven's gate. We are happily prepared to leave this world and go with T's crew. It stands both the epitaph for the 39 away team members and a lasting reminder of the group's unshakable conviction, even to their grave. And heaven's gate remains one of the more honestly for me, fascinating and obviously chilling chapters in just modern cult history and a unique time for it to rise

when the internet was also in its infancy. And watching the two coalesce, come together, and ultimately feed on itself until they killed themselves is something I can see why people have spent years just deep diving into this group's psychology because Applewhite is the opposite of almost every cult leader out there in almost every meaningful way and yet all the tactics we see from cult leaders that may not seem like him are prevalent there just twisted in different subtle and more victim focused ways. And that boys, after three episodes

is the end of the Heaven's Gate series. We're done. I hope you enjoy it. I hope you have a better understanding now instead of just Heaven's Gate, Nike's and Suicide Baby, they had 20 years of weird fucking history that led to this.

And the pop culture effect is probably not what they expected and are not particularly happy about, I can't imagine. Unbelievably affecting, like listen, I was in a totally different head space before I listened to the audio and after I listened to the audio. Yeah.

The audio made me feel- Makes it real. Yeah, it made me feel depressed about it. Because these were people, right? Like we joke about it the whole time in the first episode, we only listen to Applewhite's voice and he's almost a caricature of himself and just the beliefs and the horniness stuff

and people leaving because they jerked off. It's all really funny, but then you hear the voices behind the people that are gonna take their lives and suddenly it makes it so incredibly real. Yeah, like if you think it's impossible that you would ever do something like this, think back to that one boss you had that was really bad.

You know what I mean? Think back to like the weird culture you had, that one job that sucked that you had. You know what I mean? Like there's weird or the school, weird things that happened at your school that your teacher did that were like weird behavior exercises or whatever that everybody did. And you know, when somebody get in trouble, you'd be mad at them and they made you like run a lap around the fucking yard or whatever.

That's all that same shit. It just all it's like normalized for you because it's all in context of a place that's familiar. And it's just it's just crazy to think about like, you were talking about the gateway tapes and how the brain is responsible for, you know, what vibration you know, like how how your your brain your brain creates reality basically it translate the inputs to something your brain recognizes as reality. Yeah. And like that's kind of what being the cult is also in like a different way, which is like kind of fucking. Fucked up and all this stuff, like leading to the suicide. Yeah, we covered it in the course of like six hours overall, but for them,

it was a slow roll for two decades, two decades of slowly changing their theology, slowly changing what was actually gonna happen, especially after Nettles died, like the slow change of like, oh wait, we're maybe gonna leave sooner. Oh wait, we may be leaving optionally. Oh wait, that means we're probably gonna kill ourselves. Like it wasn't just this instant thing.

It was a slow burn where only a couple people slipped out from the cracks before like it got too hot for them and they couldn't, there's no turning back. And I love that post-nut clarity was one of the reasons. Like legit post-nut clarity. Like legitimate, you know, if before you make any important decision in your life, jerk off first, then think about it.

I don't know that I like this as the moral of our story. That's what you should take away if it's- I think you should. Yeah, you're about to make a big decision in your life Take just a little bit to yourself Empty yourself out Before you make a big decision, make a small decision Those of you that listened to this episode

With your family Awesome! That's your fault Thank you guys so much for Listening! You shouldn't have done that That was a mistake Thank you so much for listening thank you so much for supporting us over at patreon.com slash illuminati powder we're off to go do a

mini-sode for everybody right now we'll be back next week with another episode we is there anything else new merch is coming it's not out yet and we sold out of plushies already actually so don't worry about it. We sold out of the plushies man go support us on patreon if you got some money laying around go do it there you'll get some great art

seriously right away and you get another six months of mini-sodes that are not released in public yeah which are like and another one right now yeah exactly all right thank you guys so much we're off we appreciate you we love you goodbye hello everybody welcome back to the Jaluminati Podcast. As always, I'm one of your hosts, Mike Martin, joined by the... I don't know who they are. There's two...

What? Terrence Hill and Bud Spencer. No! Neo and Trinity. No! I don't understand, and I probably never will. Let me just tell you right now that there's two... No! Neo and Trinity. No! I don't understand and I probably never will. Let me just tell you right now that there's two

Leon Kennedy and Claire Redfield. I'm telling you, I think he literally just looked up famous duos. Cheech and Chow. And it's just been going through the list ever since. I'm trying to dig deep. Which one of you is Dick Powell? Me?

Your name's Jesse Cox. I want my my baby I want to live with my baby I want my my baby I want to live with my baby I want to Illuminati. I want your Illuminati. Hello everybody, welcome back to the Illuminati podcast. As always, I'm one of your hosts, Mike Martin, joined by Alex and Jesse. As always I'm one of your hosts Mike Martin joined by Alex and Jesse Like a shooting star across the sky that's actually a UFO Bye!