Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 299: Folk Magick Part II - Philosophy of Magick

Episode Date: May 18, 2025

Alex brings the Folk Magick series to an end by giving Jesse and Mike a Tarot reading and talking Appalchian Mountain Man Magick. You read that correctly. MERCH - http://www.theyetee.com/collections/chilluminati Thank you to - All you lovely people at Patreon! HTTP://PATREON.COM/CHILLUMINATIPOD Factor - http://www.factor.com/chill50free code chill50free Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - http://www.youtube.com/user/superbeardbros Editor - DeanCutty http://www.twitter.com/deancutty Show art by - https://twitter.com/JetpackBraggin http://www.instagram.com/studio_melectro SHOW NOTES: Magick What Do You Mean By Magic? Quiz: https://www.reddit.com/r/ChilluminatiPod/comments/1kmqfnk/what_do_you_mean_by_magic_official_quiz/ Folklife: https://folklife.si.edu/magazine/appalachian-folk-magic Learn Religions: https://www.learnreligions.com/appalachian-folk-magic-4779929 Esoterica on Youtube https://www.youtube.com/@TheEsotericaChannel Atlas Obscura: https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/what-is-dumb-supper New World Witchery: https://newworldwitchery.com/2010/05/12/361/ https://newworldwitchery.com/2010/05/13/blog-post-59-–-appalachian-mountain-magic-part-ii/ https://newworldwitchery.com/2010/05/14/blog-post-60-–-appalachian-mountain-magic-part-iii/ https://newworldwitchery.com/book-shop/ Horoscope: https://www.elle.com/horoscopes/?psafe_param=1&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=mgu_ga_elm_md_pmx_hybd_mix_us_17925201838&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=17923888557&gbraid=0AAAAADCsZxdbPB18BejwA9M7ethchzASY&gclid=CjwKCAjw56DBBhAkEiwAaFsG-pRJUHzL9HofDoGsoyG9QjEt62W5RAfW98usmG_3AB-2Yo8SmFO-7RoCfgEQAvD_BwE Tarot: https://sacred-texts.com/tarot/pkt/tarot0.htm

It's the Lexus Demonstrator event at Don Valley North Lexus. During May, Don Valley North Lexus has rates as low as 1.9% with savings up to $9,000 on select remaining 2024 demonstrator models while supplies last. See DonValleyNorthLexus.com for details or visit them at 7200 Victoria Park, just north of Steeles. A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. Hello everybody and welcome back to the Jalubanati podcast episode 299. As always, I'm one of your hosts, Mike Martin. Today joined by the, uh, let's see.

Oh shit. Oh, there it is. Amir Khan and Salman con of LA. Jesse and Alex are those, um. Brothers. I don't know if they're brothers, but they, uh, they are. I hope they're not father and son. I don't like that. They're definitely not father and son.

Are they movie stars? Father and son. They're Bollywood megastars. That's kind of what I thought. Yeah. In India. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, they've achieved superstar status in Bollywood, known for their, uh, they huge box office success out there. Their 1994 film and as apna apna is a cult classic, the comedic, like a comedy duo there. Uh, they had a little bit of a falling out, but they reconciled in the end and, uh and they've done a ton of other stuff. There's a potential and as apna apna to happening as well. Do they look as country mouse and city mouse as me and Jesse right now? No, they're, they're rather dashing.

I'll send you a picture of what they look like. Country mouse city mouse is like, so good. This is them. These are they these are they. Gatsby links. We got them. Always. You know what? They look like a couple of nice and fellas. They do have like a city mouse country mouse vibe, though.

They really they really do. A lot riding on the on the like handlebar mustache and buddy Holly glasses. Yeah. But yeah, yeah, yeah. That's got, that's gotta be the city, the city mouse right there. Yeah. I was hoping you were comparing us. See this is the first time I've ever seen this gentleman, but I was hoping you were comparing us to the two dudes from RRR. Cause those guys rock. I don't know their names, but those dudes slap. I have not seen RRR yet. Mathis, it might be the single craziest three hours you'll ever watch. There is. Dude, I've seen some good Bollywood movies. There's so much ridiculousness. Wasted on beer and watch it. Like don't, don't do anything. Like get

like shredded on Bud lights and watch RRR. Buy some chicken wings. Get like some, just get North. Yeah. I'm trying to remember what movie I saw. It was like a cop movie that from Bollywood where he was doing like just kicking cars and shit. It was wild. That a great house. Oh man. What's the one that's like, uh, they fling the man on a shield. Oh, and they like the shield flower of that. You don't want me to see more of that movies. I love that. If you haven't seen the Bollywood movie Singham, go see Singham. That's what I was thinking of. Bollywood gets what we want from like going to a movie theater. They understand. I'm just saying, I'm just saying they know how to make people in the in the room together clap at stuff.

It's so tight. It's so tight. They fully are like, it's a movie. Who gives a fuck about like physics? Let's just have fun. Should I address the audience now? No. No, I will. You may. Hello again, open-minded conduits of glorious internal will.

It's time again to let go of what you understand to be the rules that govern this tangible earthly realm and embark with us once more as we finish part two of what is quickly becoming just the bareliest dipping of the very, very tip of our tiny pinky toes through the only mere surface tension membrane atop the giant swirling pool that is magic, as in the great power, as in focused will, as in magic with a K, and even more specifically, I mean magic with a K, as in magic with a K as it exists in North America. Since the second half of this year on the Chiluminati podcast is going to be just chock

full of topics that require some basic magic context. Does that make sense? And speaking of providing here, yeah, and speaking of providing basic context and engendering a childlike sense of wonder, if you remember from last time, I got it out of my pneumatic tube message delivery system capsule that I've always had in my house since I heard about them straight from recently on Karma the Dark World and remembered that I love them. It was a pneumatic capsule straight from Chiluminati HQ. I have the thing set up just off camera.

You can't see it. It's an archive quality automated page turning machine that I borrowed from the Vatican. I actually sent that back. I requested packaging for them. So there things have kind of calmed down at the Vatican since last time we spoke. Yeah. New Pope. Yeah.

So, you know, that Chicago in with I'm finally able to return the automated page turning machine that I borrowed from them in case anyone was wondering, Oh, by the way, speaking of Chicago, yeah, just, you know, the Pope contacted me. Oh, is that right? But contacted me and he said, to say, he said, see, well, it did to be a, so a nice, and I was like, is that your voice now, Pope? And he's like, this is how all the Pope talk. I said, okay. Okay.

When you take on the new name, yeah. And he said- It's like when you go on Jerry Springer and you just sound like that. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And he's like, Jesse, wouldn't it be so nice if, let's say, November November the first in Chicago, if you suppose put on another show for me. Oh, I said, Pope, I'll get

on that. Let's win one said the Gipper. Yeah, he's like, I'm making the tickets available soon. I was like, all right, well, calm down. Calm down. So what does he have to do with this? Why he has other things he needs to deal with in the world. He said he was a fan. He's a huge fan. I guess. But this fucking making us call him by his preferred name.

Oh, Bob. No, I call him Pope Bob. Pope Leo. No, I'm like, what up, Pope Bob? He's like, Bob is his real name. All fucking woke Pope making me call him. And he wanted me to remind everyone to free up November 1st in that last week of October to be in Chicago to see us live. So just, you know, put it in the mind calendar.

That's pretty good. That's pretty good. Yeah. Magic. Yeah. The world is full of basic contradictions that confuse the mind and forces all to live in a constant state of cognitive dissonance. It's hard. But to get us through these dark times, sitting here on my automated page turning machine is you guessed it, that's right. It's the official magazine of the 1987 Chiluminati Kids Course Summer Investigation Course at Angeles National Forest, Chiluminati magazine. And anyway, this specific issue belongs to a kid named Katie, and it's dated August

of 1987 in case you're writing a theory post about whatever it is that's going on here in the background. Furthermore, if you'll recall, the powers that be at the main Chaluminati org with which our podcast shares a name and several staff members requested that I quote, indoctrinate our listeners with valuable thought forms to prevent decontextualization resulting from a proliferation of low value media, such as portrait mode conspiracy videos, ghost footage shorts, and bad faith debate porn, using articles from this magazine as reference. And while putting that together, not only did I write a very plucky little script

full of clever onion-like layers, but I also found, stuffed in between the middle pages of this issue, several arcane pages of a memo from an agent A. Whitney Brown, seemingly from the Chuluminati themselves, who's also doing research into the nature of magic at some point in time, and which I'm just including excerpts from at this point because A, I think they're interesting, and B, I don't want to get into any more trouble with anyone who is above me anymore. So, in fact, along those lines here's a quote from that guy for Jesse to read now to just get us in the headspace. Here we go.

Jesse S. Bolland Me writing this is magic. You reading it is magic. If there is any doubt to my power, I can demonstrate the impossible for the reader as you read across time and space. As I write this, I'm sitting near an open window at my apartment in Culver City. This dude lives in Culver City too, that's crazy! Who knew, right? There's a light breeze as I type at my mahogany writing desk. I look to my left, there's a lamp on a table in the corner with a potted plant oh no oh no lamp creepy pasta

i look to my right and a 13 foot tall purple slug with bright red compound eyes and thick slime dripping from its jiggling great maw wraps its whole body around me crushes all my bones and slips up my broken form like spaghetti before I even had a chance to write it all down. So then how did you just read it? And what if I told you I actually live in Burbank? Pretty crazy, right? Honestly, I'm sure there's some dude in LA who lives in Culver City that tells everyone he lives in Burbank. I'm almost positive that's that That guy that that sucks. I don't know who you are or why you're doing that But all I know about it is that is this there's a sucky reason behind that

Well, I can tell you why cuz it's Culver City apartment the giant multi-eyed slug creature took it over Yeah, and he doesn't want to live there. Yeah, I'd be. Benjyar J. I can't imagine why you would love, okay, whatever. The point is, as always, I like to bolster the stuff we do here based off old publications from the 80s with all kinds of modern sources as well. So once again, shout outs to Folklife Magazine, LuredReligions.com, Atlas Obscura, the YouTube channel Esoterica, NewWorldWitchery.com, which also has a great podcast and a set of excellent books associated with it, which are like really quite good repositories of this very specific sort of folk knowledge. I'll include links for all this stuff in the show notes.

But I mostly refer to their three-part article on Appalachian mountain magic for this episode, which is freely available on the site itself. And also big thanks to Wikipedia. Uh, I'm not going to look, I'm not going to tell West Virginia how to make a quick buck, but if their tourism board started selling Appalachian mountain magic T-shirts, I buy one and I heartbeat. I think it's, I think it's pretty much tied right into every, I really do think it is in the tapestry of that region. I feel like it's living and it's alive right now. Uh, anyway, last time we learned all about how in broad strokes,

magic with a K is all about will and intention and your way of thinking and perceiving reality and how that can affect other people's perception of reality or whatever, and sometimes that can create tangible results. And to illustrate that in a simple way we all understand, last time we kicked things off with an article from the magazine about horoscopes. This time, I figured we'd take it up one notch and start with a quote from an article called terror Oh my gosh, which Mathis will read for us now. And which my god

terror Oh my gosh, and which I've only slightly edited to include more up to date references and things our listeners will more clearly understand because the 80s were a very different time in terms of technology. For sure. Uh, Taro was a system of cards specifically designed for cardomancy or the art of divination and fortune telling, uh, using cards and have and have existed in some form in Europe since the 15th

century. In a tarot card reading, there is a querent who comes into the reading with an intent or question and a diviner who actually carries out and interprets the cards themselves for more experienced practitioners The query and the diviner might even be the same person but no matter how many people are involved 11 cards are randomly chosen from the 78 card suited deck and Arranged in such a way that the query can reflect on their intent through insight into their past present and future Sounds pretty cool, right? Katie? Well, after everyone pauses the episode and signs up for support at a support,

the show at patreon.com slash Chiluminati pod, go ahead. I'll wait. Why don't you find an officially sanctioned Chiluminati summer camp, shaman Nader, shaman Nader and try a totally twisted DIY tarot reading of your own. So yeah, I guess first things first, get out your phones or pull up your browser and consider supporting us on Patreon. I guess I guess if the magazine like if you just want to do it, like you have to you have there's all kinds of dough bonuses on there. That website would exist. Yeah. 40 years ago. If you're watching, if you're watching every episode of this show or listening to it on your earbuds and you're out of episodes now

that you're caught up and you need to gorge yourself on more peak parasocial serotonin. There's tons of mini sodes after every episode that just pile up into a big archive for everyone that you've missed. There's bespoke pieces of art, early warning on merch drops, including our new dope shirts we just put out at the yeti.com slash. They're dope. They are. They are dope. Buy one now. But now let's shift the vibe a little. And because the Chilumanati asked me to, I'll shamelessly try my best and do some extremely amateur tarot reading for you boys to kick us off today using the classic Fully illustrated writer weightsmith tarot deck from 1910 If you guys want to pull up your own

Copy of that to follow along with the art you guys feel free to do that at home because it's a very Standardized sort of deck it was from 1910 as well as 1911's the pictorial key to the tarot by a white himself Who was a British writer mystic freemason member of the Hermetic key to the tarot by A.E. White himself, who is a British writer, mystic, freemason member of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, which is a group that we'll talk more about later. Shout out to the masons who listened to us. I know there are a few. I've met you. I knew you were out there. You give out good vibes.

I just want to say for the record to the masons out there, my grandfather was a Mason. I feel like I have an end. So that would be, you know, just hook me up. What are we gonna like more evidence? You're part of the deep state, Jesse. No, that's that did not carry through the family. If I were to find out my dad was a base, I'd be shocked. Shocked. You don't think he's got, you don't think he's got it together. No, no, I don't. Not even remotely. Fair enough. Uh, but yeah, we're not going to talk about the hermetic order of the golden dawn, uh, till we're on higher levels of the Chiluminati Educational Magic course. So let's start this tarot reading situation with Jesse here. I'm going to pull out, I'm going to arrange my windows a little bit. So never pull out. Whoa, who the fuck are you? Actually, actually, sometimes you definitely should guys. Yeah, Just put it out there. Uh, all right. Uh, I just got a rain drop on my windows. Okay.

So here's what we're going to do. Okay. We're going to go into this with, uh, Jesse first, we're going to do your reading first. And what we need to do first is we need to go in with an intention. So we're going to do this reading. You understand basically what a tarot reading is, right? Sure. So we're going to do one and I just need you to like vocalize an intention for us before we do anything else. How would you like me to vocalize this intention? Like what is the future hold for me or how can I solve this specific problem

that I'm having in however many words, just something personal in your life that you'd like to get some sort of answer to or get some sort of. Right. Okay. Okay. Okay. Thank you to Factor for sponsoring today's episode. And like, listen, all right, if you're anything like I am, and I mean, really like me, you don't have a ton of time in your day to stop and cook yourself just a full meal every single day. Between digging through conspiracy rabbit holes that have no end, prepping for episodes of Chuluminati obviously, and desperately trying to figure out what the lights in my sky mean every single night, the last thing I want to do is chop onions and grill a steak. And never mind that I'm not super great at it. And that's why this season I've been making things way easier on myself with Factor.

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They've got this chorizo egg bite thing that's been saving me from grabbing, well, let's just be real, the cold pizza in my fridge. I'm not the greatest with meals, which is why I need Factor in my life. And if you're even like a quarter of like I am, you clearly need it as well. So if you want to check it out,

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No. So, okay. Okay. So let's just say, you're working on a project and I really want you to like engage with this, uh, like, like intent just for a minute. Like while I, while I, while I do this, uh, process, you're working on a project, you're putting effort into it. You want to know what's going to happen. You want to know how it's going to go. Um, so the first thing we're going to do is we're going to find out your, we're going to find out your signifier and we're going to write what's going to happen with my new project. And we're going to understand, we're going to understand everything about that. And we're just going to focus on it. And I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to like deal this right now. Okay. So great.

So we got a little set here, ready to go. I'm going to walk us through this one at a time. We're going to start with the significator, which is you. Okay. So this is like, sort of like the you that is the, your, your sort of avatar in this reading is, I'm expecting either the fool or the hangman I'm not sure which but one of the two for sure what you are is the nine of cups uh which is I'm gonna read you the actual sort of description of this card a goodly personage has feasted to his

heart's content an abundant refreshment of wine is on the arched counter behind him, seeming to indicate that the future is also assured. The picture offers the material side only, but there are other aspects. And this you can, you know, divine to mean things like contentment, concord, like physical, like this is a this is a success advantage. Like this is a, this is a success advantage. Like this is a positive future. I mean, already kind of a spooky thing for it to choose as your significator card in a way based on the intent that you made. But also I think a good one.

I don't know if it means that you're here with that intent or that's who you are as a, as a person. It's not clear, you know, but, but just understand that this this probably bodes well, and it means maybe at least at the very least, that we're locked in, you know what I mean? Like we're locked in here. So now we're going to go over to the first card, which is the card that covers you. This is the card that is going to kind of like cast its vibe over this whole situation and everything else that happens.

Okay, so this is going to kind of be the sort of general vibe atmosphere vibe check card, let's call it. And that card for you is the king of cups. Okay, the king of cups holds a short scepter in his left hand and a great cup in his right. His throne is set upon the sea. On one side a ship is riding and on the other a dolphin is leaping. The implicit is that the sign of the cup naturally refers to water, which appears in all court cards. This means fairness, man of business or law or divinity. This is like a just king.

This is like a responsible person who is there to help you. This is advantageous to you. It also represents things like equity and art and science and scientists and lawyers and artists, which is good, I think, assuming, you know, this project that you're in is like in the same field as the other projects that you're into. And it literally is written in here, creative intelligence is written into this, into this card. So that's the king of- So far, I like the ass kissing, this is good. That, that, yeah. This is an ass kissing, this is an ass kissing, this is your own- No So that's the king of culture. So far I like the ass kissing. This is good.

This is an ass kissing. This is an ass kissing. This is your own. No, this is the universe. This is your own waiting. Yeah. I'm expecting a turn, a hard, because so far we've got me and then the aura around me. Yeah. So that card is- I'm waiting for the actual project information because so far, yeah, I know I got my shit together and I'm very aware that I'm a creative assembly genius. However, with that said, I'm still concerned

about this project that has costed me a lot of money. Okay, so let's see. So let's see. So listen what we have next. So the second card is on the other side and this card crosses you, which means that it's going to be the nature. So the covers card is like helping you. The king is there with you casting his vibe over this. This is the character of your opposition. This is the vibe of what's against you, let's say. Right.

So this is one of those like tick tock things where I get to pick three Avengers to protect me, but the rest are coming for me, right? This is that guy, this is the rest. Yes. Who's coming for me? This is the magician. The magician is a youthful figure in the robe of a magician, but I will say this is the magician reversed. This is a youthful figure in the robe of a magician having the countenance of divine Apollo with smile of confidence and shining eyes. Above his head is the mysterious sign of the Holy

Spirit, the sign of life, like an endless cord, forming a figure eight in a horizontal position. About his waist is a serpent creature, a serpent sincture, the serpent appearing to devour its own tail. Again, same symbol. This is familiar to most as a conventional symbol of eternity. But here it indicates more, especially the eternity of attainment in the spirit. And remember, this is for the normal magician. Pete Slauson Well, I was about to say, what's the reverse? Or flip? Ben Trevino We'll get there. In the magician's right hand is a wand raised toward heaven,

while the left hand is pointing to the earth. This dual sign is known in very high grades of the instituted mysteries. It shows the descent of grace, virtue, and light drawn from things above and derived to things below. The suggestion throughout is therefore the possession and communication of powers and gifts of the spirit, right? It's the magician, obviously. On the table are the four tarot symbols, you know, the cup, the sword, the, you know, all the different symbols, signifying elements of natural life, which are things on a table to him, if you want to think about it that way. Just showing again more of his mastery, and he adapts them as he wants beneath our roses and lilies. And they are garden flowers to him. You know what I'm saying? They're beautiful flowers, but they're just under him.

Um, divine motive reflecting in God. Um, and, uh, yeah, that's, that's the magician. Um, which I think as a character, uh, of your opposition would be kind of scary, but let's see what the magician reversed means, which means struggle to see progress. Struggle to see the potential paying off, feeling disconnected from your personal power and your personal magician. off, feeling disconnected from your personal power and your personal magician. It's the opposite of the magician. The magician is a spiritual conduit. And so the character of what's opposing you seems to be maybe your own perception of yourself as not having the juice or finding out that the people that you arranged in your giant nine of cups situation are not paying off in the way that they should

be. Let's say that. That's, that's, that's like a pretty decent reading of that in reverse, right? So now let's go to see the next card. The next card is the card that is above you. And this crowns you. Okay. This represents your aim or your sort of like your morals in this situation. As one as one way of looking at it or as like what you like your ultimate potential. Like this represents like the crown. It's like what's above you. It's like what you have to rise to.

What the potential is of your operation or where you're headed. It's like the character of your success. If you succeed, right? That card for you is the hermit. Awesome. Yeah. This is. I'm sorry. You succeed and you become homeless. I'm sorry. You become a hermit. The variation. Living in the woods. You become become Appalachian mountain magic man. Whoa, I'm here for that. So this says, the variation from the conventional models in this card is only that the lamp is not enveloped partially in the mantle of its bearer, who blends the idea of the Ancient of Days with the light of the world.

It is a star which shines in the lantern with which the hermit's holding. I've said that this is a card of attainment and to extend this conception the figure is seen holding up his beacon on an eminence as in look what I have in my hands. Therefore the hermit is not as court de Gibelin explained a wise man in search of truth and justice, nor is he, as a later explanation proposes, an especial example of experience. His beacon intimates that, where I am, you may also be. It is a further, a card which is understood quite incorrectly when it is connected with the idea of occult isolation as the protection of personal magnetism against admixture.

Do you understand what it means? No. Admixture is like a mix. Like a mixing of like cookie dough ice cream is like vanilla ice cream with an admixture of cookie dough. Does that make sense? Okay. So it's like, it's like, another way of thinking about it incorrectly is the idea of yourself

as isolated from outside influence, right? Right, that's an incorrect way of viewing it. So what's the correct way? Yeah. In true Martinism, the significance of the term, philosoph inconu, was of another order. It did not refer to the intended concealment of the instituted mysteries, much less of their substitutes, but like the card itself, to the truth that the divine mysteries secure their own protection from those who are unprepared. So what crowns I think what crowns you hear is sort of access to the sort of aspirational sort of activation that anybody could get sort of a personal satisfaction that is

not selfish, but inspirational, like something that the type of success that people would see and be like, wow, he really did something good for all of like, not just not just himself, but he did he's showing us that there is there is light at the end, kind of that is how I feel about video games. So yeah, really going to change the world with this one. Very excited. Thank you. The truth is that the divine mystery secure their own protection from those that are unprepared. You feel me? Okay. And that, yeah. And that's the character of what your success will look like.

I also would have settled for you become so successful, you leave society behind and go live as a hermit. That's the opposite of what the hermit means. Yeah, I know. Okay. That's what the whole point of this reading was. So fourth, fourth card, this is below you. This means beneath you. This is the foundation of the situation. This is what you're built on. This is what is already sort of what you have. This is what you're built on. This is what is already sort of what you have. This is what you have going for you. Or what you just got, how you got to hear with what you got to hear with. This is, uh, you know, your, your, your, your just recent previous circumstances.

Um, uh, and that card for you is the five of wands. A posse of youths who are brandishing staves, as if in sport, or strife. Jesse always surrounded by posse of youths. It is mimic warfare and here to corresponds the divinary, the divinatory meanings. Imitation, as for example,, fight, but also the strenuous competition and struggle of the search after riches and fortune. In this sense, it connects with the battle of life. Hence, some attributions say it is a card of gold, gain, opulence. I think you could also see it maybe as some kind of success based on nothing, just like good fortune,

like, like, sort of like an appetism. I like this is like just me kind of weighing in on this myself, but I get the feeling that, you know, there's also this it says mimic warfare, sham fight, but also success. I feel like it means something along the lines of like, you're coming from a place of security based on something that doesn't seem necessarily like based on excellence or anything, it could just be dumb luck or something that you don't see the the the the path to how you got there. But that is nevertheless, you know, something that you can stand on that is now, you know,

starting to be less. And now we're going to this new this new this new project, let's say, right. So let's let's say that. And for the fifth card, how does how does that feel for you? Fine, fine, fine. So far, I'm just absorbing. Does that some is does that like for you? Fine. Fine. Fine. Fine. So far I'm just absorbing. Does that some, does that like, are we, are we, are we still, are you finding things that these, that these things kind of represent in your mind? Like without- Of course.

I think that's the brilliance of tarot cards is even if it's all nonsense, your mind interprets like what you just said, you can find a spot to like fit it in with your past or you know what you're going up against. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I kind of felt like the horoscopes that we did last week were kind of bold. You know, I kind of felt like they were kind of like hardcore. So I feel like, I feel like this is connecting a little harder. That's hyper specific. Yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah. Uh, so the fifth card is the card that is, um, behind you. So it's to your right, which means, okay, this is similar to the previous one. The fourth one is the one that's beneath you

that you're built on. The fifth one is the one that's now done. That's no longer, that's passing into past. All right. So the five of staves is about a situation that you're in that you feel like maybe you just found have found yourself in that's very fortunate, or something like that. And the this this other one is a situation that you are now exiting. And this is, in your case, the eight of pentacles reversed. This is an artist in stone at his work, which he exhibits in the form of trophies on the card, which are kind of like circular sort of creations with star symbols on them.

The meanings of this card normally are work and employment and commission, craftsmanship, skill in craft, business, perhaps, you know, in the early stages of business, like prep business, but reversed, it means vanity, voided ambition, exaction, cupidity, skill in the mind, turning to cunning, or intrigue, some sort of, you know, less positive situation having to do with work. Do you guys know what cupidity means? No, cupidity means like greed for possessions. So like, or like wanting to have stuff so like, like, like sort of unhealthy reasons for working hard. Okay, let's say kind of bad, like,

you know, voided ambition, like I said, vanity, I gotta bust my ass because I'm motherfucking Jesse Cox, you know, or, or I need that Lambo stat. Like, let's let's hustle, baby, you know, whatever that type of that type of thing. That's what it means in its reverse. And that type of mindset, whether it's in your own self or someone around you or whatever, right? I'm not trying to say that's you.

I'm just saying, whatever it is, whatever that influence is, it's behind you now. Whatever you think that is, this is that. That's number five. Number six is before, which means this is the one that's facing you, that you're facing, let's say, this is in front of you. This is the road ahead and how you're going to travel

into the future, let's say. And that is the nine of wants. The figure leans upon his staff and has an expectant look as if awaiting an enemy behind our eight other staves erect in orderly disposition, like a Palisade. This means a lot of wands and wizards. Yeah. This drunk wants and was hers because they got them cups. This is crazy because I pulled a fake tarot reading for you

yesterday, Jesse, um, like to like test this method that I want to do for the show. And I pulled this same card in the same position. Uh, this, this means strength in opposition. If attacked, the person will meet an onslaught boldly. And that your build ahead is going to be faced with formidable opponents. How about that? Right. Like Hell's Kitchen. Got to take on the best. But it could-

I don't want any scrubs. I got to take on the best. Now, and I assume you mean in armed combat, right? But that could be you. That could also be you. That could be, cause I think the nine of ones is you bulking up. So maybe the road ahead is maybe what it's saying is rather than you facing tough opponents, maybe what it's saying is get ready to face tough opponents ahead. Attack if you're attacked. Meet your challenge. Do you guys think, is this like, are we going to get some, uh,

supplement brand deals? Can I like, I want to like, you know, get some shots. You want to grow your brain? You want to swell your brain? Oh, I mean, yeah. Brain. Yeah. Yeah.

You want to hang brain? Yeah. Hang. No. All right. I want to get like bulked up, but I also want like a alpha testosterone pills and I want those. And then I want like a honey that like, you gotta get that good honey. You want that? Yeah. We're going to watch his character arc go from Jesse to like extremely

angry alpha Sigma male who does a podcast about how to own women. Well, listen, here's what I want to say. Here's what I want to say. Here's what I want to say. Here's what I want to say. No, my thing is I want to be owned by ladies. You want to be a paid up. Don't, uh, don't get it twisted. You guys are getting it twisted. Don't get it twisted.

This strength is on display. Now this is strength that you have now. This is not something that you need to get. This is like, use your strengths, wield the strengths that you have. It doesn't have to be brawn. It just has to be square up and go toe to toe with the, with your opponents. I feel like the title, the title song for Star Trek enterprise.

Yeah. I think, I think, I think this is characterizing your obstacles. If it's reversed more, I think when it's right side up like this, I think what it's saying is the path ahead is strewn with days of squaring up and, and fucking, you know, wearing up and fuck big boy mode, walking out is with your chest up. Let's call it that. Okay, brain out chest up brain out chest up. Next one is the seventh card. This is the this is the operation. This is the this is the self card. Okay, this is about the significator. This is about you and your vibe in this, right? The road ahead is more about the

project and how you need to be with regard to the project. But this one is about you. And this is the lovers reversed. It's the Lexus demonstrator event at Don Valley North Lexus. During May, Don Valley North Lexus has rates as low as 1.9%, with savings up to $9,000 on select remaining 2024 demonstrator models, while supplies last.

See DonValleyNorthLexus.com for details or visit them at 7200 Victoria Park, just north of Steeles. A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. The sun shines in the zenith and beneath is a great winged figure with arms extended, pouring down influences. In the foreground are two human figures, male and female, unveiled before each other as if Adam and Eve when they first occupied the paradise of the earthly body. Behind the man is the tree of life, bearing twelve fruits, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is behind the woman. The serpent is twining around it. The figure suggests youth, virginity, innocence, and love before it is contaminated by gross material desire. This is in all simplicity, the card of human love, here exhibited as part of the

way, the truth and the life. It replaces by recourse the first principles, the old card of marriage, which I have described previously in the later follies, which depicted a man between vice and virtue. In a very high sense, the card is a mystery of the covenant and Sabbath, right? So what is the lover's reverse? CBer But to ask what is reverse? RG Yeah, what is lover's reverse in a personal sense? It means- CBer Let me get my guitar. RG Challenges and disharmony in personal relationships, romantic, familial, or professional.

So is this a negative thing? Possibly. Is it saying that's what's ahead? Maybe. But it might be saying that's how you got to be right now. If you're looking at a situation where you don't believe that the road that you took to get here is necessarily the right road and that you got here anyway, you know, and you have relationships that you've built out of personal reasons, you know, maybe it's time to be less personal in those relationships right now. You know what I mean? Maybe it's not about you're going to fail. Maybe it's about, you know, time to kill that bleeding heart for a minute, you know, could be that. The suggestion and respect to the woman is that she signifies that attraction towards the sensitive life, which carries within it the idea of's like, actually the love path is not the path

that's working for you right now. And being cold is, and remember this is about you in this project, right? This is not about your life is about. Right. This is my love life one. This is a project one. This is, yeah, this is about the lovers in terms of your project. Right guys.

I've been meaning to say, yeah, I bring so many pink hoodies to this podcast. I think I should get 20, 30% more. Just saying. Wow. Oh my God. Holy shit. In fact, I feel like I should let you know, I bought all the stock in Chaluminati Inc and I run everything now.

Oh, you will be like, oh, you're the other end of the tube. Yeah. I'm so sorry. His opponents trying to stop you're trying to stop. He's trying to stop me from growing the show to become just an excuse to pick up women. I've been trying so hard. We're the staves, bro. We're just your staves, bro. All I wanted to do was make a series of podcasts in order to get laid.

And I felt like it was a smart plan until you guys ruined it. Steve does. All right. The eighth card is your house. This is the environment and the tendencies at work there in which have an effect on the matter. For instance, your position in life, the influence of immediate friends and so forth, your situation. God, I hope this is the tower. That'd be bad ass. It's the page of wands. All right. More wands, dude. Just wands everywhere. Just penises everywhere. In a scene, in a scene similar to the former. Those youths.

Those staves and wands. Those erect youths. Uh, in a similar, in a scene similar to the former, a young man stands in the act of proclamation. He is unknown, but faithful and his tidings are strange. As seen similar to the former, a young man stands in the act of proclamation. He is unknown but faithful, and his tidings are strange. Dark young man, faithful, a lover, an envoy, a postman. Beside a man, he will bear favorable testimony concerning him. A dangerous rival if followed by the page of cups.

He has the chief qualities of his suit. He may signify family intelligence. So a trusted intelligence, a trusted faithful envoy is, is in your house. And he has favorable testimony for you, or you have something nice to say about. I'm assuming when you say house, you don't mean my actual apartment. Not your home. Your house is like your sitch. Your house is like your work situation in your, in your world. There is, there is someone, a dark young man, a faithful dark young man, an envoy and postman

who is in your house right now. That's what it's, that's what it's telling you. Um, so that's, that's your house. Okay. There's only two cards left. Uh, and one of them is a biggie. The ninth one is, uh, your hope card. This is your hopes and fears, uh, in the matter. This is, this is, you get, you get what this is.

Yeah. Uh, this is the knight of swords. He's riding in full course as if scattering his enemies in the design. He is really a prototypical hero of romantic chivalry. He might also be Galahad who sword is swift and sure because he's clean of heart. This means skill. This means bravery, capacity, defense, address, enmity, wrath, capacity, defense, address, enmity, wrath, war, destruction, opposition, resistance, ruin.

There is therefore a sense in which the card signifies death, but it carries this meaning only in its proximity to other cards of fatality. So that's not really what's going on here. This is more about ass kicking big boys. And this is your hopes and dreams. You're hoping to kick some big boys. It's pretty clear what you want to happen here with this new project. Sure. I feel like. And finally, the last card, possibly the most important card of the whole thing, the 10th card. This is the outcome. This is it. This is the one this is the one that we want to So 2026 Jesse Cox. This is the one we want to think about the most in this. Okay. This is the moon

reversed. The distinction between this card and some of the conventional types is that the moon is increasing on what is called the side of mercy to the right of the observer. It has 16 chief and 16 secondary rays coming out of it. The card represents life of the imagination apart from life of the spirit. The path between the towers is the issue into the unknown. The dog and wolf are the fears of the natural mind and the presence of that place of exit when there is only reflected light to guide it. The last reference is a key to another

form of symbolism. The intellectual light is a reflection, and beyond it is the unknown mystery which it cannot show forth. It illuminates our animal nature, types of which are represented below, the dog, the wolf, and that which comes up out of the deeps, the nameless and hideous tendency which is lower than the savage beast. It strives to attain manifestation, symbolized by crawling from the abyss of water to the land, but as a rule it sinks back once it came. The face of the mind directs a calm gaze upon the unrest below, the dew of thought falls. The message is, peace, be still, and it may be that there shall come a calm upon the animal

nature while the abyss beneath shall cease from giving up form. That's the moon. But the moon reversed is a totally entirely different situation. It is illusion, fear, and anxiety. Intuition, confusion, self-deception. It could mean, what do you call it? Were you imposter syndrome? It could mean confusion. It could mean it could be negative. Okay. What do you think about that? What do you think about that? And that's the reversed version?

Yeah, the reversed version is the moon reversed. Dreams become nightmares and the imagination runs wild. You could feel overwhelmed. You could believe that danger lurks in every corner. It acknowledges your fears, catastrophizing everything like everything is going to be bad. It can suggest that you're not tuning into your intuition. It suggests that you are unstable. could be a lot of things. So Jesus Christ, so everything was great. But the outcome, you've ruined

everything. Well, no, I didn't jinx you. That's not you did this. You put your voodoo on me. And now my project's gonna fail. It's not about failure. That's the whole point is that it's all in your head. You're catastrophizing. This is the outcome. The outcome is you're going to ride into this. You're going to, uh, go in gung ho.

You're going to be going in expecting a certain result. And what you're going to get is something completely different than what you expect. That's what, that's what it means. All right, well, my expectations are already low. So maybe that means they'll be positive. Like, the character of success can be many different things, right? Like the character of success can be a plan paying

off, you know, and if you look at where you came from, you know, we're talking about the Five of Staves or whatever it is, the Five of Wands or whatever card this is, yeah, the Five of Wands, where it's the youths brandishing staves, fake, fake warfare, you know, imitation, you know, it could mean that you're gearing up for a fight that you think you understand the shape of, but what you do not understand the shape of, it doesn't mean necessarily that you have failure in your future. It means that at the end of this, you are going to have a result that is different than what you thought.

And that is, uh, you know, wild rather than, uh, ordered, you know, don't relate it too much directly to yourself. Think about it in terms of, remember we're talking about the project. So the project's wildest dreams may take over. The project may become bigger. Like this could be the reading for Fortnite if you want to get real about it. You know what I mean? Like the, you know, if you know what I'm saying, like they came, they came into the project

trying to make this like base building game with all this. Yeah. We did. We all probably had access to the, I literally have a flag in game. Yeah. From like the first day it launched. Yeah. And you guys are good. Yeah. We were both in the very first ever Fortnite brand deal. Uh, but yeah, like it was totally different game and what, what, what, what character the success took was different. And even the failure will be different than you expect. So it could be either. The point is that the, the outcome is wild.

The, the, the, the, it's unbridled the outcome. That's the, that's the sort of, uh, it's not illuminating. It's vexing. Um, love that. Just. It's vexing. Um, love that. Yeah. Just like, uh, all readings vexing, but doesn't that, doesn't that kind of re-characterize pretty much the entire thing? Like, uh, it's kind of, it's kind of, yeah, I think a lot of it is mostly you trying to un voodoo me at the last minute because you put that on me and now I don't know.

It falls apart when the whole thing you're going to get a call at 2 a.m. like Alex, Alex. You got to understand what outcome means, right? It's not about predicting your future. It's about predicting the character of your future. That's the whole point. The point is you can read into this and you know, run away with it. That's kind of the, you know, part of magic is that like, it's like shrooms where like, your own vibes are kind of like part of the vibe that you're going to take with you into it. So yeah, like, you know, you can read it and you can see immediately how it's

negative, but just like life, right? Like just like any thing in your life, like you have to audit it, you have to take that time to do it. And I'm a great point, actually. Yeah. And I'm not gonna like take mushroom trips and treat them like a tarot reading in some way. Yeah, they were, they really kind of are. And I really do think like, I really do think like magic in general is kind of like a tarot reading, in terms of carrying out the practice or carrying out the ritual, there's this sort of, you know, people say things are made with love, and it's usually means that they actually did

a good job. Like, I think that's what you got to do with this this final card is like, even the card itself hitting right now in this reading is being the moon reversed in its own. It's like reverberating with itself in theme of this reading right now. And so I think also structured until the very end. And it still is very structured with this at the end, because now you are feeling extremely moon reversed. You know, you got moon reversed, dude, I got moon reversed in the reading before the moon reversal. So I guess, I guess, I guess, take it as a warning. I guess guess take it as a warning to keep the vibes in control. Like, you know, be ready to interpret wild as good. Do some mushrooms. Yeah. Be ready for an

outcome that's unpredictable. And then it'll be up to you to control it because you're also practicing this magic, you know, it's all it's still your, it's still your interpretation. So I can only get you to this point. Other than this, the value of this will get you there. Does that sit well with you? Does that feel good? Yeah, I mean, like most of these, I think most of what I'm taking away is stuff that is probably what I want to hear. Does that make sense? That's kind of the point. Yeah. To be honest with you, like you shouldn't be, there's no objective truth to it at all. That's the whole sort of deal. Mathis.

Yeah. Are you ready for a tarot reading, my guy? Yeah, you're gonna be my first ever tarot reading in my life. You're gonna be my second ever tarot reading in my life. Hey, look at that, perfect. You did a great job with Jesse. I had no idea it was your first.

All right. Yeah, let's have fun. Okay. So let's try this again. We're going to go back to one. We're going to let Jesse's, uh, reading roll off of us. When you take one piece of pickled ginger, right now blowing away to refresh the taste buds of our magic, uh, sensory organs. Let's go. That's kind of gross. Um, Mathis, we're going into this tarot reading right now with your intention. What is it going to be?

You know, I got to keep it on brand. Let's do like, what is the nature of the lights I'm seeing in the sky? Okay. Are they made? Yeah. Are they, uh, reflections of my, myself putting something on them when they're not, is it reflections of something else actually there? Not every single one, but there are about two to three particular I have in mind. Is math is the latest victim? Is math the latest victim? I will take the fuel. Is he the latest victim of like, you know, what's the thing where you like see lights in the sky syndrome or something where you like, see it? Yeah, yeah. Like everything. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So let's so let's do it. Let's see what it says. What is going to happen with all the lights around math. This is like, keep it in my house. It shouldn't matter anyway, right? Like the cards know my intent. Yeah, they're up there. They're up there.

We go up there. We go. OK, so just like last time, we're going to start with the significator. I don't really need to explain to you exactly what the significator is again. You know, you don't have to go through everything. Avatar that you're going to take. Yours is the 10 of ones. This is a man oppressed by the weight of the 10 staves which he is carrying. So I feel like-

Yeah, I mean, it's just, it's a burden of knowledge that I do not speak openly about. Yeah, what Waite says is that this is a card of many significances. Some readings cannot be harmonized. I set aside that which connects it with honor and good faith. This chief meaning is oppression, simply, but it is also fortune, gain, any kind of success and then it is the oppression of these things. It is also a card of false seeming, disguise, profidity, the place which the figure is approaching may suffer from the rods that he carries. Success is stultified if the Nine of Swords follows and if it is a question of a lawsuit,

there will be certain loss. So basically, this is Mathis. He's been now he has too many staves. He's seen too many UFOs. He's carrying this burden around with him. It's making him doubt himself. He's has a he has an oppressive success. And he needs and he needs, he needs clarity, he needs recompense and clarity. So now we're going to find out what card covers you. Right? Again, this defines the vibe of what's around you. This is not the crown. This is not your, this is not the character of your success.

This is, this is who's with you along the way. This is, this is the emperor. Uh, the emperor has the form of the crux on Sata for his scepter and globe in his left hand, he is a crowned monarch, commanding, stately, seated on a throne, the arms of which axe-fronted by Ram's heads. He is executive and realization, the power of this world, here clothed with the highest of its natural attributes. He is occasionally represented as seated on a cubic stone, which, however, confuses some of the issues. He is the virile

power to which the Empress responds, and in this sense is he who seeks to remove the veil of Isis, yet she remains Virgo Intacta. It should be understood that this card and that of the Empress do not precisely represent the condition of married life, though this state is implied. That's funny. On the surface, as I have indicated, they stand for mundane royalty, uplifted on the seats of the mighty. But above this, there is the suggestion of another presence. They signify also, and the male figure especially, the higher kingship, occupying the intellectual throne, knowing the truth. Here is the lordship of thought rather than the animal world. Both personalities after their own manner are full of strange experience, but theirs

is not consciously the wisdom which draws from a higher world. The Emperor has been described as a. Will in its embodied form, but this is only one of its applications, and b. As an expression of virtualities contained in the absolute being. But this is fantasy. I don't know what this is. The king of knowledge like the magician of intellectual, like you're the king of the magicians kind of you're kind of like the king of thoughts. You're like the ultimate. I agree. Yeah, I'm a king of I'm all I all this is

this is this is what this is what's covering you call me. This is what this is what's covering you is an occupation of intellectual throne. I think this means that you are being scientific about it. I am. I've been very, very, very, very specific about making sure I can eliminate every possible thing, which is why out of the dozens I've seen, I can, I'm thinking very much about like two or three in particular that I can't really, I think you're being scientific about it. And I think it also means in the emperor Empress way that you're kind of relying on

Jess a little bit too, through this as kind of to be your. Well, she, yeah, she was, she saw one of them. Yeah. And, and you kind of go like, am I crazy? Am I, God, am I the king of intellect or am I crazy? You too. Yeah. I do it with you. I do it both you. I'm like, I feel fucking crazy. So that's, that's the, that's the emperor.

He's covering you. I think that's what's going on here. Here's now, here's who crosses you. And again, this is the character of what's against you in this, which I don't know what's against you in this, your own self, the doubt, the, I don't know, the, the, just the sheer reasonableness of it being fake, you know, the, the scientific Dockums razor kind of thing. Actually, what it is, is the night of cups, the scientific dockums razor kind of thing. Actually, what it is, is the night of cups, graceful, but not warlike, writing quietly wearing a winged helmet, referring to those higher graces of the imagination, which sometimes characterize this card. He too is a dreamer, but the images of

the side of sense haunt him in his vision. This means arrival, approach, sometimes that of a messenger, advances, proposition, demeanor, invitation, and incitement. Incitement. He's my enemy? Incitement, something coming. Maybe the temptation to say yes, maybe the temptation to come at it from the point of view of, Maybe the temptation to come at it from the point of view of, you know, confirmation bias, you know, maybe what's against you is your own desire to know the higher graces of imagination, you know, arrival approach the messenger, you know, maybe being overthinking it like, like you are, like you are over believing it, like you are over, like you're giving it too much. Like you're giving it too much. I don't feel like in your, in your mind, like maybe you're giving it too much importance.

Maybe you're treating it like a message. Maybe the met, maybe the enemy is something that's coming to you as if it's doctrine, you know, maybe it's some church. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Something coming to you with a message, something inciting you, something inviting you, let's say. What is it? Okay, I'll think on that. Sure. Now here's what crowns you. This is the character of your success, your ideal aim, the best that can be achieved. This is the Three of Pentacles. A sculptor at his work in a monastery compared the design which illustrates the Eight of Pentacles. The apprentice or amateur therein has received his reward and is now at work in earnest. This means trade, skilled labor, usually, however, regarded as a card of nobility, aristocracy, renowned glory, crowns. So maybe the ideal outcome or the best that could happen is you could prove that these are aliens and then you become the guy who finally

proved the aliens exist. Far. All I want is like, to know I don't know, you know, like I don't need to know what they are, only that I'm not seeing a satellite because it just, or whatever. You know, I just, I don't want to come from, I don't need to know it's a gray alien piloting a UFO. I just, it could be anything that's just not typical.

But what's, what's, what's the success of this intent? What's gonna come, the character of success is aristocracy, nobility, renowned glory. Maybe it just means you can come talk about it on the show. Yeah, trade skilled labor. Maybe it means it becomes a good episode instead of a sad episode. You know, you never know. Yeah, could be any of those things could be hard work paying off could be time.

Justified time spent justified. All the patience and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Interesting how this is all, it is very rather thematic and how it's going. Right. Everybody, Kelly, Kelly always pulls, I told you she pulls one tarot card at her stream every week

and shows it to the chat and she explains to them what the card means. And then like 10 people in the chat are like, that is crazy. That is about me. And it's like, no, it's about everyone. Yeah. Okay. So again, this is the fourth card. This is beneath you. This is the foundation or basis of the matter, which has already passed into actuality. This is the

circumstances as they are. That you have made your own foundation I have built. Yeah. This is the seven of pentacles. A young man leaning on his staff looks intently at seven pentacles attached to a clump of greenery on his right. One would say that these were his treasures and that his heart was there. Okay. This means a lot of exceedingly contradictory things. In the main, money, business, barter, maybe business acumen, but one reading gives altercation or quarrels, another innocence, ingenuity, purgation. And this is the actual seven of Pentacles, we were not in reversed. So does that work for you? Like maybe some kind of, maybe where you're at right now is crossing your T's and dotting your I's or maybe you're

hard fought because you are being stubbornly fastidious about it. Purgation is purification or cleansing also. You know, being pure, being purifying your intent, kind of coming to this place so far from a place of sheer curiosity, you know, like he's looking at these seven pentacles in a pile and his heart is there. Maybe it's like the pureness of your intent has got you here. Maybe you really just want to know. I feel like you genuinely want to know. Yeah, of course. It's just curiosity. Yeah. Now we'll talk about what's behind you, which again, this means something that has come to pass and which is now on its way out. A influence of yours that is passing, something that is stopping, something that has recently ended. This is the three of swords, three swords piercing a heart,

cloud and rain behind. This means removal or absence or delay or division or rupture or dispersion. And just all the things that getting stabbed in the heart could mean being too, you know, just straightforward things. I think that's what it is. Absence, removal, loss, bad feeling is what's behind you. You're coming out of something that slowed down your normal routine and made you feel bad or some strife in your personal life that has recently cleared up or something like that. It's the Lexus demonstrator event at Don Valley North Lexus. During May, Don Valley North Lexus has rates as low as 1.9% with savings up to $9,000 on select remaining 2024 demonstrator models while supplies last. See Don Valley North

Lexus.com for details or visit them at 7200 Victoria Park, just north of Steeles. A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. Let's say I can see that applying a bit my mom got into a terrible car accident and is now on the you know, at last stages of healing. Yeah, that's there you go. And also in that, you know, there's all these other issues involved in medicine and government. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And that that stuff like, you know, dispersion division, you know, that could all be this. All right, now let's talk about what's before you the character of the path ahead, right? This is the influence that's coming into action and will operate in the near future.

Let's say that. This is the page of swords reversed. A live, active figure holds a sword upright in both hands while in the act of swift walking. He is passing over rugged land and about his way the clouds are collocated wildly. He is alert and lithe, looking this way and that as if an expected enemy might appear at any moment. But yours is reversed, which means it's the more evil side of authority, what is unforeseen, an unprepared state, a lack of vigilance, the scary type of secret police. They literally, you know, what is, what is, you know, sickness, maybe.

So, what's ahead on influence is maybe maybe finally, I think something that would be just as validating for you, which is somebody telling you, stop, stop looking. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. If somebody was like, Hey, you need to be done now. Uh, I would be, I don't know. I don't know how they, yeah, that would, wouldn't that be for anybody though? If you were looking and somebody was like, Hey, you need to stop. Yeah, but it also has sickness. And it also means unforeseen

unprepared could mean you yourself are in about to get into a point where you're, you're gonna kind of burn yourself out with being obsessed with this could be, could be over vigilant possible. You could go on like a hyper focus train down into this for a little being obsessed with this could be could be over vigilant. Possible. You could go on like a hyper focus train down into this for a little while doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to fail just it just characterizes the influence. So maybe you're just going to like, get out for a little super into this at the you know, at the detriment of other things. You never know the few times and it's happened a few times

already for the same reasons is like I get into a hyper hole and it never leads to an answer. I just get to find things that make no sense and I just get frustrated and I get I leave it alone. Yeah, it's hard to look at terror sometimes and think about the reversed as opposite rather than negative version. Right? Yeah, yeah. In this case, they literally say the more evil side of spying and vigilance and stuff like that, overseeing an authority. Maybe somebody's going to call the cops on you.

You know, you never know. I hope not. Yeah. Um, you never know. If that happens, damn dude, Tara was real or maybe you're going to have to call the cops on somebody. Maybe somebody's going to start, maybe somebody's going to figure out where you live based on the pictures of your house that you sent. You know, you never know. There's a million ways. I don't have any other, there's a million ways you could go. Let's put it that way. Sure. Yeah, no, I got, um, it's interesting. But that's what's ahead. And let's distinguish that pretty strongly from the

self card, right? This is the self. This characterizes you in regard to finding out what's happening with these lights in your sky. And this is the five of cups, a dark cloaked figure and it's reversed, a dark cloaked figure looking sideways at three prone cups. Two others stand upright behind him, a bridges in the background leading to a small keep or holding. This is normally a card of loss, but something remains over. Three have been taken, but two are left. It's a card of inheritance, patrimony and transmission, but not corresponding to expectations. Some people, it's a card of inheritance, patrimony and transmission, but not corresponding to expectations. Some people think it's a card of marriage,

but not without bitterness or frustration. However, that is normal. Reversed means news. It means alliances. It means affinity. It means co-sanguinity, ancestry, return and false projects. Oh, okay.

Do you know what co-sanguinity means? No. That means the same blood. That means like, like relatives, news, alliances. Huh? Okay. And that's the self card might mean tap into your roots. It might mean let your family in it might mean reach out to your brother, you know, it might mean a million different things. But that's what you're that's

characterizing you right now. That's like to use the exact words just so you can kind of get this exactly right signifies himself that is the significator where the person or thing shows its position or attitude in the circumstances so in the circumstances having to do with finding out the UFOs something specific to the UFOs is going to have to do with co-sanguinity as in ancestry as in blood or an sanguinity as in ancestry is in blood or an aura or an ally or maybe somebody will help you or you need a partner to keep you sane or you know, there's a lot of ways to look at it. All right. Yeah, no. I'll take it all in. It's interesting what hit and what was a little confusing. Yeah, but no fool

card. So I'll take it. Well, you still got three left. Yeah. But no fool card. So I'll take it. Well, you still got three left. Yeah. Yeah. Your future could be a fool card. Dude. Yeah. Your next one. Your next one is the house. Okay. The house. Okay. Is again, your situation, your environment, right? Sure. Um, your position in life, the influence of immediate friends. It's the six of swords, a ferryman carrying passengers in his punt to the further shore. The course is smooth and seeing that the freight is light, it may be noted that the work is not beyond his strength. Journey by water. Routeway. Envoy. Commissary. Expedient. Easy. Simple. It's not a big deal. Maybe this isn't that big of a deal. Maybe this is easy work to figure out this answer. Maybe you're don't

need to work this hard. Maybe your situation is simple, or, you know, an envoy or a commissionery like, you know, I don't know exactly, like what that means other than, you know, in relating to a process other other than that, the process will be easy. Okay. You know, or commissionary, right? Is like commissioning someone, giving somebody a task. Del you could be delegating, asking somebody to help you even maybe,

you know, it, you know, it, it, it could, it could be any of those things. Okay. Yeah. I can, I can see how that relates in a number of different ways, uh, with the situation, especially with like, if I'm overthinking a lot of it and it's like, it's already there and easy and simple as meditating is. And this is your current environment too. So this could mean, yeah. Well, that's where I'm to, to give in, like, that's where my current S where I'm currently stuck.

It's a lot of like, there's's no like the answers in like, you know, research papers. Well, it's all leads to dead ends. But I was about to say to you literally before we started recording this episode today, I understand correlation does not equal causation. However, it is interesting that when I stop meditating, I stop seeing things in the sky and then I started again and they started up again.

Right. And like, I am like, I understand correlation doesn't equal causation. Maybe I'm meditating and I'm seeing lights and I'm just more cognizant of them or whatever, but I'm, and I just do like, I have like flight radar 24, three satellite apps on my phone.

I, you know, cross check about star link launches and all this stuff. And like, if we, you know, if we want to say, if it's like, I'm overdoing it, just meditate. It's as simple as that. Maybe that's what it means. Or it means, you know, the things that are helping you are making like telling people about this and sure asking people to sound a watch this, look at this, tell me, what do you get my crazy? Can you, can you like, are you able to look at the flight records of X, Y, Z? Like maybe just looking a little further will make the task less complicated. Maybe you'll get an answer very fast, for example.

Oh, you know, if you ask the right person or something like that. I like it. Yeah. That's eight. Number nine is your hopes. This is characterizes again, like your hopes or fears. What you are kind of thinking might happen is the night of pentacles. He rides a slow, enduring heavy horse to which his own aspect corresponds. He exhibits his symbol, but does not look therein. This means utility, serviceableness, interest, responsibility, rectitude, all on the normal and external plane. You're hoping for a reliable, solid answer. Correct. That's what I think this means. That's what I think here. It's clearly my deepest of hopes. Like I would love aspiring to a straightforward,

reliable, simple thing that's not over, like a mundane, even if it's aliens, you just want to know yes or no, like based on something really, really actually definitive. Right? Yeah. I just want to know. Like I said, even if it's something I cannot comprehend, I'd like to know that I don't know, or I can't know or whatever, instead of sitting there and trying

to compare light records and you know, all that other stuff. Yeah. And that's what's been frustrating about the ones that are confusing to me because they almost it almost is like purposely like, what am I like? It's moves weird enough. The one I always think about is the one that came through the trees really quickly, right to the clearing where it stopped, hovered, and slowly rose up to the top of the tree line again, over the course of two or three minutes.

That's one I saw with Jess. And then when it went behind the trees, I never saw it again. Right. And like that is not definitive enough for anything. Right. And the, you know, we tried to get it on camera, but it was like through the window and super blurry. And if it was so high up in the trees, if you go outside, it was, the trees were too tall to see what you're even looking at. So it was just, you know, like, it sounds like that. Those little things like you can't really fucking tell. I might be something, but it's not something you know, you know, it's.

Yeah. Yeah. We love a solid answer so I can stop thinking about like what's going on in the world. And I think that's the biggest thing that I've ever seen. And I think that's the biggest thing that I've ever seen. Like you can't really fucking tell I might be something, but it's not something, you know, you know, it's yeah. Yeah. We love a solid answer so I can stop thinking about like, what is it? So let's see what's going to happen.

Let's look at the outcome. Let's see what's going to characterize the outcome. This is the 10 of Pentacles, a man and woman, a man and woman beneath and think about how this relates to everything else that you, that we, a lot of Pentacles and swords, a man and woman, but woman beneath an archway. I'm a long man, but yeah, yeah. Exactly. A man and woman beneath an archway which gives entrance to a house and domain. They are accompanied by a child who looks curiously at two dogs

accosting an ancient personage seated in the foreground. This means gain, riches, family matters, archives, extraction, the abode of a family. So this might mean that your true outcome is going to be one of family bounty rather than grand satisfaction. Like maybe, you know, if you get the mundane quick explanation of that your house facilitates for you. And you overcome the hyper vigilance ahead of you. Maybe you'll reach a very solid, unsatisfying, mundane answer. You'll find peace in it and it will settle your home and you will find bounty. You know, that's one way to, yeah, I can definitely, I would,

can see that for sure. Or it could mean that you're going to get rich from this, you know? Or it means that you're going to have a fucking kid as a result of this. You never know. Please know. Unless it's a star child. Yeah, that's possible, but it could mean a lot of things. So, uh, there you go. I hope that was satisfying. Like in general, I felt like- It was interesting. I in general felt like that was much more satisfying than the horoscopes were.

And I know it took a little bit, I know it took a little bit longer time than the, than the horoscopes, but I feel like we got a lot out of every step of that in terms of personal relation to it. And I don't know, I feel like I was at least connecting with something real inside of you guys while What we were talking about. I felt like we were getting at least a real, you were really being vulnerable about your intent on the board. Wands in mind where again, it was in my myself. You had 10, 10 of ones was you.

Yeah. You had 10 ones inside you. Was there any other ones or was that the only one? I literally just reshuffle. You're fine. Yeah. I just reshuffled the deck, but I can relist the episode and figure it out. I'll go back and see. Um, but yeah, I, I mean, I don't know what, what a Tarot reading does exactly in terms of auditing, like your ability magic wise or whatever.

I don't really want to characterize it that way, but I do think like, I do think that like, if you can get down with it, that it's a really good step on understanding the way that you have a role in magic, like your participation in it. It's not like magic is perception, baby. It's not like Photoshop, like you have to know, you have to believe it. We'll do all the real again, chaos magic, this will come up as well. But you're in that like, even if like,

you even believing or hearing things in a tarot that stick with you or whatever changes the way you will then perceive the situation from then on. And in that way, even if there's no real magic in that way, if it's permanently changed the way you move in on a project or perceive something, is that not exactly what it was supposed to be doing in this magic? Actually, exactly. And also consider like that was my lattice. Like I said, those are the first two tower readings I've ever done.

I've never done anything close to a chair reading before really for anyone. And like my reading of that would have been different than say, centelles reading of that, or say, yeah, a reading of that that we did right after watching randomly, like, I don't know, the movie Dunkirk, or some shit like that, just some random thing could just get in there and fuck with our perception of those things, depending on how emotionally but right now in this situation, that's what we got. And I felt like it was a pretty good result. But to wrap up this part of magic is like the idea is like the atmosphere in which you do 100% magic is perception. And if something can change

how you perceive your own reality, then that is magic. Literally justification for the vibes. Like I care about the vibes. Really what it is. I care about the vibes for this exact reason. And I think that they're important. I think about what song is playing in my car sometimes when people come upon me. All right. Great. To wrap this up, here's a little quote for Jesse to read from A.E. Waite, who wrote all that stuff himself. For anyone who just learned how to do a tarot reading, this is a nice little wrap-up quote here. Great facility may be obtained by this method in a comparatively short time, allowance being always made for the gifts of the operator that is to say, his faculty of insight, talent, or developed, and it is the special advantage of being free from all complications.

So I think, yeah, I think this is like a good idea, like a good piece of advice for all magic, which is that like, it's not objective, it's subjective. So the more you do it, the reason there's like ritual, the reason there's practice, the reason there's repetition in magic and the reason you have to pass it on and do it over and over. And the reason we even have to share, like, you know, last week we were talking about how you think about magic. We were talking about, I was talking about functionalist magic and it was about privacy, right? And you can think about how anything outside of doing things in your own way, like we have all our own little secret things that we do, right, that we believe that are not necessarily sensical.

But like, doing them in secret is the only true magic. If you share it with anyone, you have to dilute it a little bit to let somebody else's understanding of it in. But as the trade off of that, you create a situation where you can then like a recipe almost where, you know, you don't really do a recipe the same every time. But if you cook the same fucking recipe a million times, pretty soon, it's going to be real as long as recipes good, it's going to be some good ass food every time, you know, and learn your own little bits of the recipe that you prefer. And it makes it go a certain way. And it's even I think we talked about last week, or Jesse may have mentioned last week where the lucky t shirt, you're wearing a lucky t shirt. And when you're wearing

your lucky t shirt, you don't think anything bad is going to happen to you that day. And even if something kind of bad happens, not unless it's like catastrophic, but like something kind of bad that might annoy you one day, maybe if you're wearing your lucky t shirt, you're already in a mindset where you're like, that's not a big deal. And you just overlook it exactly in that not magic in and of itself. And they put, you know, there's no crackling lightning and

sparkles because reality is subjective your reality Alex and Jesse is different than my reality. Even if we've experienced similar things, we experience a live show together, but we experience a different live show individually. Yeah. And it's reality. It's really weird objective. Yeah. And just to add to that, I'll also include a link to online versions of both the deck and the key and the show notes. If you want to try this yourself, it's pretty easy to like do the readings and

stuff. And just in case you're wondering out there listening, yes, any of those really fancy tarot decks that you bought at a convention, even though you didn't really know how to use them and you haven't opened it yet. You can use all those decks for this as long, probably as long as there's 78 cards in it, it's probably this tarot deck. And unless you're in a very weird, you're at a weird ass convention. You probably bought eight cards. Yeah. You probably bought that. No, it's at 78, but you probably bought the real territory.

There's also different ways of doing tarot too. You don't have to do 11. Some people can do five or three. It depends on what you're trying to do. Yeah. And, and yeah, some people there's ways to do it with just the major arcane. There's no Kansa. It's just Cardamansi. It's just a set for Cardamansi, but that one that I did just now was like, kind

of like the OG sort of one that most people recognize, I think. Um, but yeah, uh, I'm'm gonna give you a link to all that stuff so you guys can use that. And if you, like I said, if you have one of those artsy decks, my wife has the Crow Tarot deck that she shows that has like beautiful art with crows on every card that has all the symbolism in it.

Really cool. But now just to switch up the happy go lucky vibe, here's Mathis again with another quote from agent A. Whitney Brown and the memo that I found inside of the Chaluminauts magazine. Wow. Like all culture, magic flows freely, grows, accumulates, mixes, and twists. It's not just one thing. This is the story of the magic that came here from the old world, as that was already the

story of the magic of the new world. More and more being magical to me gets harder and harder to distinguish from simply having a breadth of deeply internalized learned knowledge. To me, becoming this and being this is exactly what a witch or wizard is, just taking the secret knowledge they found and fucking running with it. Maybe that's why witches are the oldest and most powerful thing there is. Maybe that's, uh, maybe that's how new things can become the oldest thing there is too.

What do you guys think he means by that? Yeah. I mean, it's interesting. Uh, it's all, it's all perception, baby. Yeah. I think, I think that is, it's about an emotionality rather than. Wave your hand in magic. I think it's about the idea of taking your own personal power and running with it.

Uh, and it not being something that like I cast dispel, but instead using your, uh, like to be, you know, a tarot card reader or fortune teller or, you know, a tarot card reader or a fortune teller or, you know, uh, a witch and wizard and or warlock. Yeah. There's some audacity you have to have in yourself to do that, to like step outside the norm and own it and experience life that way, which I think it's saying like, yeah, no, you're, you're big balls in right now because, you know, not only is there ridicule involved, there's also the idea of like the same thing that I do. Every time we talk about Mathis is UFOs. I'm like, okay, all right, sure. You know? Yeah, exactly.

Like it's, I think I'm calling it now when we do, when we do madam Blavatsky and it will be a multi-part deep dive, Jesse, you're gonna love her, I think most for the most part, because what you just said embodies her to have the balls to go out there. And her say she is these things and has these ascended masters who likely weren't even real, but didn't matter because the perception that they were real was built to carry the influence and she built it. It's, it's what? Yeah. Sorry. Go ahead, Alex. I know you're going to say something. No, that's no, that's that was good. That was I was with you on that.

Yeah. Like, yeah, I mean, it's exactly. Yeah, it's exactly what he's talking about. Like last time we kind of underlined the idea of magic being about you, right? Like the person or maybe just you, the brain or just you you the mind inside the brain or whatever the intent inside your head. Or the thought that realizes your thought in the brain being, you know, like, what is you? Right. But do you guys think that like the depth and the complexity of introspection, right? That comes from doing something like a tarot reading, like how complex and how deeply you have to think about how you fold it into interpretations for yourself to understand, right? Like, do you think that that depth and complexity or even maybe the accuracy or the power of the reading is ever enhanced by more enlightened and intellectually stimulated people? Like if you are more cultured and you have more avenues for

interpretation, do you think that you are more magical intrinsically by having internalized more knowledge and avenues for understanding symbols and information? I mean, isn't that the base conceit that if you have knowledge, accessing the unknown knowledge is easier. Yeah. Right. Like, cause you know what you don't know, right? Any? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're willing to like, like, it's, it's not just the the chutzpah of being someone to put

yourself out there. But it's sort of the audacity of, I understand you don't know a lot, but I want to know so much that I'm willing to go research the knowledge that people don't want me to look at like that. Yeah, exactly. Um, so does that mean the older the magic or the further that you can trace magic back like a, like a, like a, like a specific concept? Does that make it better? Does it make it like stronger the further back people have known about it in that? Yeah. And I think the answer is yes for both the logical answer and the magical answer, obviously, magically answer ritual has been around forever. But also logically, it makes sense

because the longer something's been around, the more it has a chance to seep its way into the greater subconscious, the worldwide culture. So in that it becomes more powerful because more minds are aware of it. If something is lasting that long, then there's clearly or like a reason. I think that reason is literally to some people, the very definition of magic. Exactly. But last week, we described American magic as a melting pot, in the same way that America is a melting pot pretty much exactly pound for pound for the same reasons. And really, it's such a melting pot that there's no way we could ever really cover the entirety of the American magic tradition. I wrote

this episode in several volumes. But right now, I touched on this briefly last week, but by looking at American folk magic through the very specific lens of Appalachian mountain magic tradition, magic through the very specific lens of Appalachian mountain magic tradition. Let's find out what being a melting pot of magic really means. As Jesse reads us a quote from an article in the magazine called Go Go Granny Women on a topic that wasn't nearly as solidified or academically regarded as it is today, back in 1987. Okay. Go Go. I'm sorry, 1987 had a magazine called go go granny women. This is an article in the Chiluminati magazine about something, something,

something happened with a real magazine, right? Right. Right. Right. And it's called go go granny women. And you want to do some magic about the Chiluminati magazine. Yeah. Somebody on the Reddit thought it was real.

And in that case, they were right. Hey Katie. the Chiluminati magazine. Yeah. Somebody on the reddit thought it was real. And in that case, they were right. Hey, Katie, do you have a grandma? Oh, the Chiluminati are so are sorry to hear of Ethel's recent passing. We're not so sorry. We're just sorry. That's right, Katie. Pretty much everyone has to have had a special granny. But if you happen to be Appalachian mountain folk, a granny's not just Ethel or the mom of your mom. They're also magic! No, Katie, your eyes don't deceive you. We said magic with a K. Granny women are the central figures of an entire Appalachian magic tradition, based mainly around healing, rituals, and something called divination. Look it up in a library! But the big reason we're talking about it today is to show you how what we learned on page 20 about how modern magic is a mix of beliefs

and practices dating as far back as Sumeria and stretching all across the Western world from Egypt to Greece to medieval Europe continues on from the old world right into the new, aka the good old modern day 1987, U S of a, uh, and that goes on for a while. Yada, yada, yada. Oh, these are prime Reagan years too. Yeah, this is big Reagan. I think people were probably the hippies were probably real upset at this time. Um, uh, here's a little bit later in the same article for Mathis.

In tribes like the Cherokee and the Choctaw and the Shawnee had elements of their own spirituality and folklore that fit together with old world lore surprisingly well. For example, what to the Cherokee were the ageless little laughing valley people of folklore were easily understood by Irish, Scottish, and German people as a cousin to their much more familiar fairies, and in both cultures these beings were tied closely to the powers at the center of their magic. What a team up, right, Katie? And so in Appalachia, the Scottish and the Irish found a place that felt similar enough to home that their folkways could adapt pretty well, and then it merged with the magic of

local native tribes, and then German settlers arrived and added their own style of medicinal and agricultural-focused astrology, and suddenly a new kind of magic emerged. Sprinkle in a little Christianity, add a generous splash of African-American hoodoo, toss in a huge amount of craft pickle making knowledge and suddenly the modern day granny woman is born with a tradition going back hundreds if not thousands of years. That's one old granny right Katie? Doesn't it make you want to just run up to Ethel and give her a great big flower on her

gravestone? Again, the Chiluminati extended our deepest sympathies for your very recent loss, Katie. It was brave of you to still come to camp. And now from the 1987 Chaluminati Magazine supplementary workbook, let's finish out today's episode with a round of what does that remind you of? A multiple choice slash discussion and comparison game where you guys read the description of a concept or figure from Appalachian mountain magic and then quiz yourselves and others on how it relates to similar concepts from our mundane world to see how magic really

is all around us all the time. Does that sound good? Sure. Yeah. So first we're going to read a little bit about granny women with Jesse. A medicine woman who often treats small medical issues holistically, performs simple divining or divining rituals, or assist mothers and academic medical doctors with childbirth and postpartum care.

Granny women been known to perform other needed services around town in both conventional and unconventional ways, like blessing the livestock or the land before planting crops. Granny women receive their knowledge through extensive training, and the effects of their care on the patient's psychology in crisis often baffles more traditional physicians. Granny women are sometimes seen as a type of witch who practices magic with a K, but many also carry no claim of magic with them and just think of what they do as simple mundane folk ways. So those are granny women and just to give an example I was reading like an anecdote from one of the articles about

this and they were saying like as an example this, like during like a midwife type scenario, you know, there's, you know, painkillers and stuff like that. But there's also like, this granny woman handed her, her patient, her husband's hat to hold to deal with the pain. And it brings her husband's presence into the room, even though he's not there. And it soothes her mentally. And that doesn't necessarily need to be magic to work, but that's like where her head is at and the types of things that she does in addition to more straightforward things.

So what does that remind you of? I'm gonna give you four choices and we're gonna see how it relates to all of them. A, a farming app, B, a nurse, C, painkillers, and D, a scholar. So how so how does the granny how do granny women relate to these concepts to all far more? Yeah, a farming app, painkillers, which one do they closely most closely relate to? Like if you think about a farming app, right?

A farming app will tell you what to do, right? It'll give you the weather, it'll give you things that are gonna be coming like an almanac would, and it's gonna teach you things that you need to do to get your own success, right? So in some ways, a granny woman is kind of like a farming app. In other words, in other ways,

a granny woman is kind of like a nurse. A nurse helps you, they're not the doctor, but they're there, they assist you, they are there for your care, they have little things that they do that help the bigger things happening. Another one, painkillers, like I said, there's a mental element to this that makes it easier to endure things, even if they're not directly addressing the thing. And D, they're scholars because they are real repositories of knowledge, culturally, that kind of are walking college classes on how to be granny women. They're just bursting at the seams with useful information to teach you.

So what do you think farming app nurse, painkillers, or scholars, granny women are most like? I would say scholars because a scholar would be all of those things as well. Okay, great. Right. Especially of old, you know. Yeah, no right answers, but I want you to think about all of them. So I think it's kind of cool. The next one is something called a dumb supper, which Mathis is going to tell us about. The next one is something called a dumb supper, which Mathis is going to tell us about. Okay.

A dumb supper is called a dumb supper not because it's stupid, but because it's quiet. These love divination rituals were mostly performed by young women hoping to find out about the man that they would eventually marry, but sometimes men could attend as well, or hide in the hallway for reasons you'll soon understand. It often involves steps like setting the table backwards with strangely made dishes, chairs placed at the table reversed and the knife and fork switched, and the meal is often served dessert first as well. If absolutely no one makes any sound, it is said that at midnight mysterious spirits or

new visitors will make themselves known to those at the table. And if one suddenly sits next to you, it is surely the spirit of your future husband. However, this comes with a warning as if you don't take the dumb supper seriously, there are many stories of people missing important signs leading to their own deaths instead. Bam! So that's what a dumb supper is. Do you love or die? Figure it out.

It seems like the European version of the dumb supper focuses more on weird food and the American version Focuses more on the weird Like manners, but they both kind of have a little bit of both But what does that remind you of a spin the bottle? B romance novels C Tinder profiles, or D, something I'm going to call cootie catchers, but which everybody calls something different.

I'm going to just do it for you. So you can see it in my hands. It's a little paper fortune telling square that we used to play on the playground with each other. That had numbers on the inside of the new unfold it and read all those. But yeah, so I'd say that. Yeah.

Not Tinder profiles. You know, I don't think that's the same. What if I told you that what people were doing a lot of the times that these were pranking the girls by hiding outside or like that maybe that's part of it. No. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. But yeah. Well, what do you say, Jesse? I'm curious what your thought it. No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. Well, what do you say, Jesse? I'm curious what your thoughts. I don't, this is interesting because the, the thing about this that I really am focusing on is the order in which you eat for some reason. Yeah. I don't know why I like the idea of, uh, doing it in reverse. And it's like, it's, uh, there's, there's something, um, like everything you

mentioned, be it Tinder profiles or, uh, you know, all the different, like, uh, you know, gimmicks, they all have some sort of weird, uh, you know, function involved that really does nothing other than make it special for a reason. You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, I mean, like spin the bottle, right? Like it relates to this because you're creating a contrived situation where you can- Yes, that's what I mean. Yes. You can interact with your sort of mischievous, promiscuous feelings, and maybe get to act on them a little bit. And it doesn't, it's like bad vibes free. It's like, well, it said we have to kiss. The romance novels and Spin the Bottle kind of does this too. Actually, all of them kind of do

this. Romance novels, it's like a template for how to be. It's like aspirational. It's like getting you to think about who's good for you, but it's also reinforcing like societal norms about sex and like unhealthy thoughts about sex and like what makes a good partner and stuff like that. So that's what romance novels doing there. Tinder profiles, like I said, you can misrepresent yourself and manipulate a courtship situation in a way that's unnatural. And obviously, cootie catchers, again, it's a similar thing. Order from chaos, a sort of memeable sort of almost like a tarot esque thing. Uh, I would say in our day, definitely the replacement for tarot on the playground. But with that said, they all have that weird kind of like, um, you know, doing the, the little, the little paper, whatever that I'm not sure what that's

called the cootie catcher. I'm going with the cootie catcher. Yeah, that's what he calls it. I love it. Cootie catcher. That has like a whole, you do with, it's almost like you're doing a like a Naruto finger thing. Same. So you're doing like a layer of stuff like everything involved with these all these things you mentioned, going back to the idea of eating the food in reverse and being quiet. There is a layer of ritualism to it that really truly does nothing as far as I can tell.

It's there to add- In a pragmatic way, unless you consider again, like the granny women, the mental- Sure, sure. But going back to the whole like, you know, you open it X number of times, then you flip the piece of paper back to reveal, like that's all really it's it's you know it's it's it's all part of the mystery of it but does it do anything not really but it adds levels to it eternally debatable yeah eternally debatable right uh okay so uh you guys are going with cootie catchers is that it that's what i've got yeah it seems like the most accurate dumb suppers are like cootie catchers put that on a put that on a tweet uh the next one is about dowsers and jesse's gonna read it

any type of apple i'm gonna say application appellation any type of appellation witching is associated with men it was probably the water witchery of dowsing, which if you never heard of it before, is mostly just the practicing of magic with the intent of locating water, oil, and other such precious items underground. That'd be the dowsing rods, right? Dowsing, yeah, exactly that. Most commonly, this is done by holding a pendulum over a map or locating a willow branch, probably with a V shape on one end, and walking the grounds of a particular area yourself using

the branch or witch stick as a guide through some physical feedback it appears to provide in your hands. There's no consensus on the principle by which this is supposed to work, but usually explanations involve some description of the witch shtick being able to tap into the natural rivers of magical power or ley lines that intersect the planet. So yeah, dowsing it's like if you don't really understand what it is, you've probably seen somebody walk around with like a little hanger or something or two things in their hands that cross,

you know, that's another common one. Um, but the one, the one that I'm talking about is where you hold two ends of a thing. And then the one end is sticking out. Uh, that's the kind of the witch stick thing that I'm talking about. Um, and, uh And yeah, you use it to find water. You like walk around like a metal detector and you go here and you dig. But what does that remind you of? A, fucking data, like info

that you can get from instruments or surveying or whatever. B, a workers union as in like a way to protect yourself as a skilled laborer. C, local birdwatching, as in a hobby that lets you become familiar with your surroundings. Or D, anti-anxiety medication, as in something that lets you feel like you have power over something that is completely out of your control. Again, I see how it could be all of those things. Um, and on some level I am more inclined to, to be like, um, the skilled labor one.

Yeah. Like, like it's very clear that this is a thing that you would do to establish, you know, what you're doing compared to someone else, right? Like as in maybe there's a less sexy way to find water underground that you might know about, but that you're doing this way seems like, like, I just know, I know. The stick or you're, or you're maybe, or you're maybe like trying to protect the, the true, your, your meal ticket. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, again, that's where the lines blur between like magic and like stage magic is it's like intent to deceive is still intent. Yeah.

Right. And moving your hands really deceive is still intent. Yeah. Right. And moving your hands really fast is still your will applied. Right. So, you know, I don't know. And you're leading people to believe something is different than it is, or inviting them to another mindset. I don't know. I don't know.

It's kind of interesting. Um, but yeah, that's dowsers. Uh, so what are you guys going with? You said workers union. What do you think Mathis? Workers union? Huh? What solid snake? Is that you data data?

I'm going with data. Yeah. You know, it's interesting data. Like data is not accurate, right? It's it's it's way more accurate than walking around in the woods with a fucking stick. But what data is, is it's sort of like an approximation that gives you confidence to make a guess, right? And instead of having that at your fingertips of like a piece of paper that says it's probably here, you know, just

walk around and coming up with your own, like, maybe you're not even aware that it's not working, or that it isn't working in on a principle that actually is real, but just using this system as a substitute for real information is kind of an interesting thing to think about in terms of magic. Just a couple left here.

Next one is Haints for Mathis to read. What's it called? Haints? Haints for Mathis to read. Okay. What's it called? Haints? Haints. Haints. Haints are not so much a magical practice as they are powerful ghost stories steeped in local or family tradition,

which are passed down through the same channels as the granny woman folkways. Just like scary stories and hauntings all around the world, Haints help acquaint people with the unknown and give them the bravery to overcome real scary events in their lives. But just like the word hate itself isn't quite the same as haunt, the ghost stories of the mountain folk seem to take on their own sort of homespun American flavor and often take on enough power that they seem to resurrect the people and places that the stories are about to

end the telling, preserving and enshrining them for generations. Yeah. So these are like super ghost stories that are like really close to the oral tradition of like families or friend groups. Like I know everybody has something like this in their life already, just like as ghost stories, but I like the haint version because it's like, they have a word for it there. It's a little bit extra folksy. It's kind of just like saying pop instead of soda, right? But even when you're in California, right? And you hear somebody say pop instead of soda, and you're somebody who says pop instead of soda, suddenly there's something,

there's something happening between you two that connects you in a way that you can't be born into. You can't change. But yeah, that's haints. It's like, you know, the ghost that grandma saw 30 years ago or The old mill has a guy that shows up in the window that everybody knows about that's this old Foreman that everybody hated that's here's a picture of him, right? Those are hazing that kind of thing in the military Oh everywhere my buddies who's a was a Marine

He was telling me about I had read this story a Marine, he was telling me about, I had read this story elsewhere, but he was telling me at a certain base at like really late at night, if a soldier in World War II garb comes up and asks for a light for a cigarette, you just light a cigarette and he'll, he then walks on and goes, you just give it to him and he goes on. I'm like, that's crazy. Like that's like, everybody knows. So everybody knows if you're on night watch complicated world war and it's like stories, countless stories of this

world war two vet who comes up and just asks you like, you got a light, your lightest cigarette for him. So scary. So scary. Uh, but what does that remind you of guys? A, a family photo album with memories of people and places preserved for all time. B, Doctor Who on BBC, which children watch with their family to experience scary shit in a safe place behind the couch with their family around them. C, harmless pranks, similar to Doctor Who, just scary situations in real life that you play on each other in ways where there's no stakes so that you get used to being in situations where you're

surprised and things go wrong. Or D, video essays, which are constructed to guide you along a very, very specific deep dive look at one specific thing. You know, if you look at the ghost of the old factory, all of a sudden, you're going to be pulling out the fucking city fucking records to find out who worked at the fucking mill and then you go down there and you're learning all about the fucking family that came to West Virginia and 1805 who started the goddamn mill and then you're looking back to see what country they came from. You know, it's a video essay, a ghost story to get to the bottom of it. So what do hates remind you of guys? So, uh, what do hates remind you of guys? I'm going family photo family photo. I was the reason because I, I'm, I approach, you know, using the ghost example, you know, I don't think all hauntings are one fucking thing, right?

I think a lot of them are a collective subconscious, a collective belief that is basically just imprinted and kind of it keeps this, this energy or whatever fucking going. It's a lot of like poltergeist or the activity of like a lot of what people say. You look at Jeff the mongoose as well. Very similar. I think a lot of it is like this collective belief running so long, being so strong, like the energy is feeding into the environment around it that even if this guy never existed, he fucking exists now. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Slender Man, Tungus, gritty, all of those guys. Um, next, uh, next one, last one didn't get the answer. I like kind of agree with you. So I'm going to let that one go. I'm kind of on team Mathis. I'm on team doctor rarity. I'm on team doctor. I'm I'm I'm fully doctor who pilled for. Who pill for, for Disney plus Dr. Who you guys. Well, it's a yeah, you know, like it's shaping your reality right now, dude. Damn, dude, you, you have no idea how meta

like that's gonna seem, especially because this is coming out after the episode, which is supposed to like redefine Dr. Who for a generation of viewers this week. So we'll see. But speaking of doctors to close us out today. And I always planned on making that segue by the way, just so you know, the YARB doctor is the last thing that Jesse's going to talk to us about today. YARB doctors also known as herb doctors, or nature doctors or

rubbing doctors, that's kind of doctor, right? I'm one of those myself. Are sort of like granny women. And indeed there are both male and female yard doctors, but unlike granny women are almost entirely associated specifically with herbal formulas, rubs and ointments, which sometimes include bizarre extra ingredients like cow manure, tobacco smoke, or alcohol-soaked cotton balls.

These are often so memorable that they become part of a specific doctor's patented repertoire, with YARB doctors historically occupying a role you might describe as a knowledgeable, good-faith snake oil salesman and common things like root beer or using clove oil for a toothache can still trace their roots back to these early Appalachian folk pharmacists. So Yarb doctors are kind of like the thing that prepped us for big pharma kind of, because I guess apparently this area, okay, no, so seriously, this was like the bread basket of drugs at one point was Aboletia because the, all the plants and stuff that grew there were like all the American exports that like people were buying for medicinal purposes and for like weird scientific purposes across

the sea. Cause it was like a real jank time for this type of stuff. And people were just trying shit, right? So these YARB doctors, right, are like, genuinely like herb dudes making like, you know, potions and stuff that can like make you feel better, and trying to give you things that are really going to help. But what happened with these things, and root beer is a good example is like, root beer was a medicine, and people, you know, to make it more palatable to people taking it, you know, would put in addition to the roots and the water, a little sugar and a little soda water and people were like, this is fucking good. And like that just became like a drink. Right. And so now this YARB doctor is like rich because he made a tasty drink and people are

buying the drink, but it's like a business set up for medicine. And now you're tempting these motherfuckers to become like hucksters almost as in capitalism does what capitalism does. So, so it's not like they like YARB doctors or cranks. Like there's probably YARB doctors today that are real legit and have really great formulas and the door to a huge temptation that in a world where if you're all you care about is yourself, why would you not take it? And it's a trope in our fiction. This type of this type of person, the snake oil salesman, like cyberpunk is built on that kind of shit.

Yeah, cyberpunk or like, if you played a Red Dead Redemption, there's a snake oil salesman guy in the first one who, who you can run the day sex day sex, right? That there was all meant like the mechanical bits are supposed to be like Save humanity, but then became cheap once expensive. Yeah, exactly. It's not like Fine thinking and goodwill. It's now just people trying to make another day sex game you cowards I've been there good. They're going to um Day sex is not dead, bro

It's too big to fail. Um, let me ask you a dead, bro. Uh, it's too big to fail. Um, let me ask you, what does that remind you of a CBD gummies, B diet coke, C premium branded HDMI cables and D animal crossing. Wow. Wow. I kind of want to go all of the above. I mean, it does feel like it all above more this one than the previous ones for sure. Yeah. What does that say about us as people as humans that the the YARB doctor is like, oh, we get this. We're Americans.

Yes, we understand. It means our our whole entire economy is based on scamming people. I'm going with premium branded HDMI cables because I think it's a perfect analogy. I want to go with Diet Coke. I feel like premium HDMI cables work because there are actual good premium HDMI cables out there that are better than other HDMI cables. But there is, but not to the degree. That's exactly what I'm saying. It became over inundated with technical non-harmful solutions that have muddied some pretty straightforward waters, AKA does this go on my PlayStation and does it go on my TV? Why am I not presented with eight price

points at that at that with that task? Because you prevent present somebody with like six tech words that they don't understand they're gonna think it's better and you can charge ridiculous amounts. Yeah. What do you think about the YARB doctor? All of the above? Is that where you guys are both going?

Yeah, I want to go diet. I want to go all the above. If that's an option. Yeah, if you're letting me do that, then yeah. Yep. You can, but like is one jumping out to eat? I say diet coke is like that to me where a're a company just as like, I slap diet on it and we remove a bad thing, but don't tell them about the other other things that we put in there.

We will just trick people. Yeah. Or animal crossing. It's like, you're not really being responsible. You're not really like doing tasks, but you are kind of, if you believe it. It satisfies that part of the brain. If you believe you're doing tasks, you definitely are. Yeah, I don't know. That's kind of the vibe. But yeah, there you go, Katie, Jesse and Mathis. One two parter intended to just barely wet the whistle of those craving an introspective look into the American folk magic tradition, as well as the larger history of magic and

its role in the cultural development of reality done. Thank you so much for listening. Thanks so much for buying our merch, the Eddie comm slash Chaluminati and supporting us at patreon.com slash Chaluminati pod. I hope Katie wherever you are, I hope you grew into a beautiful, well adjusted young woman. And I'll have Mathis close us out today with one more piece from the memo of agent A. Whitney Brown. And that is right here. Some final words for us today on our Magic 101 course. Not even like Magic 99 course.

Yeah, yeah. Originally I was going to write a lot more than this after spending so much of our time and money looking into it. But in the end, I think I'll just hide all the rest of this shit somewhere out there and the archives and case forces beyond my understanding needs them. Need someone else to find them. On the topic of magic, yes, it's real, but other than this, next thing I'm going to say, I think I finally decided that trying to formalize it any further only serves to dilute my statement's

pure magical power, and I'm leaving it open to the two interpretation on purpose the goal of the Chiluminati should always and forever only be to create as many different kinds of witches and wizards across as many different forms of magic as possible until we perish in the trying the rest will sort itself out and that's it magic so much guide to magic in America from Chiluminati 99. Thank you for doing this with me. And if you want to come see the quiz, we had an agent recover the magazine and go put that on Reddit.

It might already be there. I don't know how that sorted out, but the quiz from last week should be there in a way that you can read and try and do so you can find out your own sort of spread on the magic chart. And thank you guys so much for listening, get ready for some more crazy magic stuff. And well, yeah, I'll post all this stuff on a Patreon post, you guys can go look at it. So just before the before this episode goes live, I'll make

sure that that post is up there so you guys can read pages and pages and pages and pages of stuff about this that I've got. So I'm sure it'll be there. I'm sure it'll be pages and pages. And I'm sure that you guys will all be reading that for real in not your imaginations to but real soon for sure. Awesome. Definitely not something weird about this. Do not pay attention to it.

This is a secret. Don't investigate it. Bye everybody. Anyway, me and my wife were sitting outside indulging on our porch one night enjoying ourselves. I needed to go to the bathroom, so I stepped back inside, and after a few moments, I hear my wife go, Holy shit, get out of here! So I quickly dash back outside. She's looking up at the sky in the fall.

I look up too, and there's a perfect line of dozen lights traveling across the sky. So Thanks for watching! you