Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 305: American Urban Legends

Episode Date: June 29, 2025

Jesse takes the reigns this week as he guides Alex, Mike and all of you into the world of urban legends and folklore LIVE SHOW TICKETS ON SALE: https://lh-st.com/shows/11-01-2025-cox-n-crendor/ MERCH - http://www.theyetee.com/collections/chilluminati Thank you to - HelloFresh: http://www.hellofresh.com/chill10free Download Cash App Today: https://capl.onelink.me/vFut/eikoiw62 #CashAppPod Referral Code CHILL10 All you lovely people at Patreon! HTTP://PATREON.COM/CHILLUMINATIPOD Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - http://www.youtube.com/user/superbeardbros Editor - DeanCutty http://www.twitter.com/deancutty Show art by - https://twitter.com/JetpackBraggin http://www.instagram.com/studio_melectro

Hello everybody and welcome back to the Chiluminati Podcast episode 305. I think as always, I am one of your hosts Mike Martin joined as always, but my the two I couldn't do it without. Oh look at this. As always, Jesse here. Hello. I am in my house. You are in your house as always.

As always. As always. I'm in my house as always. This is gonna be a good one for me because I don't have to do shit today. That's a lie. That's not true. Don't say that much for today to prepare at the very least. But before we dive into that, hey, we have live show tickets on sale right now.

Go get them. Go get them right now. You know, to illuminati pod FM, there's a link at the bottom of the site there. Link will be in the description of the podcast here. Go get your tickets. Last time they sold out in like three weeks. So I imagine they will sell out quickly. Grab them while you can.

This is a story of a girl. We did such a fun show last time. This is kind of like the redo of that. It was really tight. So if you wanna go have a good time, come do it. It's in so long. You have so long to plan and get ready. It'll be like a prize. It'll be like a investment in your future enjoyment. Think about that. We're redoing it, but with like new stuff in case you were there last time.

You go to Chicago and that's pretty fun. Yeah. Last time I went, I enjoyed it. I got so full. Yeah. I got so cold and then so full. It was great. We went downtown. We did the whole market thing like a Mexican that was too much food. It was great. The pierogies were very good. Yeah, I died.

You. Yeah. And now you're back. I'm dead. And I'm a ghost now. And that's why. And then we show that show because we was great because we anchored you to Patreon dot com slash Chaluminipot where you can never escape as a ghost if you don't contribute to our patreon spoiler has been detected for disney's cocoa i will cease to exist like coco's grandma so you gotta go whoa help me by supporting our website.

Yeah. If you forget about us, we won't be there anymore. So don't let us go the way of Coco's grandma. Remember me. Hell yes. Darkest sales pitch I've ever heard. It's not that dark because it's from the Pixar film Coco, which is beloved by children and adults alike. Right, right, right.

True. Sure. Yeah. The new one, Elio, is about alien abduction, I heard. So that's cool. You didn't go see it though, huh? No. No one did, so it's fine. That's what I was gonna say.

I don't think anybody did, actually. You didn't go see the alien cartoon movie that was made for you when you were 10 years old. Disney didn't even advertise it. So he wouldn't even have known. I learned about this movie like a month ago. I was like, wait, what? Well, I live in a bubble where there's advertising for even the smallest films. If you drive around enough. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. I have seen an Elio billboard, but I've never,

it feels like Dr. Who on Disney plus where they just like it's out and you're like, Oh, where? You're like, just kind of look it up. Look it up. Just look under D dude. And I'm like, Oh yeah. Jesse, uh, this one's in your hands this week. A rare Jesse treat. Oh, I've been looking forward to this one on the, on the calendar ticking down because I saw last time I was at Jesse's office, I saw like some like materials that he had around.

And I'm not talking about Final Fantasy magic cards I'm talking about actual Chaluminati research materials that got me they got me hype They got me hype. I have a lot of research materials on this one. Thankfully, I have the goat for The topic I'm very thrilled about that. Anyway Last week we covered cryptids of Japan and in previous episodes we've talked about various myths and legends surrounding cryptids and folklore related stories and creatures from many other countries and in doing so we always come back to the moral of the story, right? Like if there's a creature that pulls you into the ice at night,

the chances are the story's about not going on the ice at night because you could fall in and die. Same with river ghosts or various ghouls that lure you away into the desert from the safety of your camp. It all serves a purpose. Whether it's, you know, the creatures in them are real or not, that doesn't even matter. The story is the thing. And so today, I wanted to turn our focus to the good old US of A. Not the Americas, not myths and legends of native peoples and colonists, but of modern day America, the United States. Our baby, dummy, self-centered country with almost, almost 255 years of culture or so now, or something like that. Something like that. Uh, but more specifically,

when we talk about the things we're talking about today, they are urban legends. And so, you know, Boston baked bean boy, very famous urban legend. Yeah. One of the, one of the best urban legends is the Boston baked bean boy. Exactly. And what about the suburban legends? Another great ska band. You know what I mean? Like they had some really good covers too.

Anyway. Um, I don't know who they are. These are stories you've probably heard as a kid or read in a scary book or somehow you heard somewhere before you, you know, even knew where to recall that from a great example of one that is not an urban legend, but it's one of those. I heard it somewhere. Every star wars fan who is of a certain age, like 30 plus for some reason nude Darth Vader got brutalized in lava. I actually know, and I have the weirdest memory. I know exactly who I heard that from and when I heard it,

I was in ninth grade and one of my buddies, Ben, we were just talking about fucking Star Wars. And he told me about the fight they had over lava that like he would fall into lava or something like that. This is before the movie came out where we all got to see it. Yeah, kids just kind of knew. This was like in the eight, like, we all got to see it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kids just kind of knew. This was like in the, like, okay. This is cross promotional.

We have a podcast Jesse and I called the Star Wars Old Canon Book Club where we're reading everything in order. And like, we're seeing this shit in like fan letters from 1980. They're talking about Vader falling in lava. Of course, I now know why Vader is known to have fallen in lava because we have encountered it now. We have our answer Yeah, but it's so old that it kind of lingered in the cultural ethos

If you were Star Wars fan Someone told you a thing that they heard from someone and it was Vader in lava and then that showed up in a movie in The late 90s early 2000s. Yeah, go check out the pod for the answer guys. Star Wars, old Canada club. There has to be a reason though, right? Like how did it come from somewhere? Like maybe a novelization or something? It's in there. It's in there. I mean, it definitely, yeah, definitely. We found it. We found the urtext. It's just that like not everybody has read that urtext where that actual piece of information was printed, but so even just the notion of it. So I experienced movies. Yeah, literally. It's like vicariously through us. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. For 50 years. That's how everybody experienced revenge of the Sith

until it actually came out. Uh, but yeah, yeah. It's about it spreading. And so today, you know, while we're going to focus on American urban legends, I'm going to try to weave into this tapestry of an episode, their origin that may in fact be other parts of the world, right? So for the most part, we're talking the US today, but I invite all of you listening right now to either go to YouTube or Reddit or wherever you want to post your favorite urban legends from your part of the world. I would love to see what we have in common or don't. Yeah, that's, that's, that's like fun.

Zenga anywhere. Anywhere. Yeah. In the, uh, can you post it on a Spotify in like other comments? I have no idea. Spotify. Yeah. Spot Spotify actually has comment section.

They changed their thumbnail. So sorry, everything's in widescreen. There is literally no way to change it. I don't know what they're doing. I also learned like people, if you do, if you have Spotify premium, you will still get ads on podcasts, like through Spotify directly.

Pretty cool. And we can't control that unless I learned we go and we move our hosts directly to Spotify, then we can affect if ads play from Spotify. So they're literally hostile. So they're literally hostile against us in a way. That's like awesome. Everybody who's with Spotify

Oh cool. was kind of forced to do it. Yeah. Basically. More or less. That's really cool. Anyway. Great. Great.

Anyway. Well, I learned that and I hate that. Anyway. I learned that the other day because I saw another comment of like Spotify ads being annoying and I'm just like, what is going on? Good, cool, good. That's what I say. Anyway, thank you for listening to our podcast regardless. Yeah, thank you. So today's episode is in thanks in part to the amazing work of Jan-Herald Brunvand who

has a book called The Vanishing Hitchhiker. That dude sounds like a Nazi rocket scientist who was brought over here in 1948 to come help out. Well, Brunvand is considered the expert when it comes to urban legends. I love that. So he is that guy. He's 93 years old now. I wish I was that guy, actually. That's awesome. Yeah. And he has written many, many books on the subject, including the Encyclopedia of Urban Legends. He's appeared on TV shows and all over media. I think the first time I heard of this dude was fresh air on NPR. So he's been around. Hell yeah. And yeah, I'll be using a lot of his collection of stories, mixing in some modern versions of well, but he is the guy. So big thank you to him and his books. I read through both of them

on a plane traveling overseas. It was, it was great. Good reads, highly recommend the Vanishing Hitchhiker if you want to see the 1980s version of Urban Legend. Were you a big reader prior to like, are you a big reader in general, Jesse out of curiosity? He's just a random. I try to be the promise. I just get caught up in other stuff, but like I have books that I want to read and I'll

set them aside. And I even tried to do like, I'll go through the classics, see what's up. Um, yeah, I try. It's just that they're on enough hours in the day sometimes. So really I like being on a plane going overseas because it gives me, I got nothing to do. Might as well read. Yeah. So I'll read and it's great. And, and, and this one it sucked cause we had turbulence. So if you see the book, I've tried to highlight things in the book and it is not good. Highlight. Alternatively, I finished three horrible books today. Not horrible, but just embarrassingly like base, like poolside reader pulp fiction books that I just. Are they like erotica? No, I just have like, I just have like reading ADD where like every book in my house has a bookmark in it.

And I just like grab once and finish them at like five in the morning when I wake up and can't fall back to sleep. So I did that today with like three books. So now I can read another one. I like that. I don't, I have to complete a book before I move on. Same thing with games. It's a bad, if I don't complete it, I'll never go back.

If only I'd done that my whole life. Yeah. But now you're here. Summer is the time for doing things. At least, at least that's what they tell me. That's what summer's for. And I mean, it's true for me too. Let's be honest.

We've got a live show in the fall coming up, a good four or five, is it six months? Something like that, months out. And yet all summer is gonna be spent planning for it. We've gotta make sure everything's ready to go and because of that, I just don't have a lot of time to myself and that's where HelloFresh comes in to help us out.

Thank you so much to HelloFresh for sponsoring today's episode. Listen, HelloFresh has been in my world for years now. I don't ever want to not use them because they literally take the thinking out of cooking and listen, I'm not a chef. All right. I'm sorry. I'm a man who looks into aliens and ghosts and true crime. Cooking is just not my thing. That's where HelloFresh makes things easy for me,

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New subscribers only varies by plan. Thank you again to HelloFresh for sponsoring today's episode. The funny thing about adding the word urban or modern to legends and myths and folklore is that it kind of seems contradictory to the idea of oral tradition passed along by old men. I never think of a city in general. When I think of urban legends, strange.

This is the first time you saying it now is the first time that I've ever thought about the fact that urban means like city, right? Like, that's weird. Yeah, it's a it's a it's a different kind of spin on it. Because again, you think it's like bygone old days of backwoods and villages and they sit around a campfire and an old man tells you the story. But, you know, urban legends contain all the harm the hallmarks of those old stories, but the only difference is it has modern settings and contemporary topics. But like those ancient stories and tales of the past, the new stories will still contain the similar supernatural or paranormal twists in them that are the hallmarks of great urban legends. There's always a twist at the end. And unlike the stories of old, these modern tales have something that is really important for modern

audiences that I don't know. I didn't live then, so I don't know. But I don't, we don't have any records of it being very important way back when. And that's credibility. The idea of these modern stories always having like, I heard from a friend or my cousin told me, or how did I know this? Well, you know, it was in the news or I saw a story about it. There's always some, you have to add a thing to let people know this is legit. This really did happen, dude. When back, you know, 300 years, 500 years, a thousand years ago, whatever.

The stories kind of seem like I'm telling a story. It doesn't matter if it's made up. Here's a good story and you can interpret what you want from it. Facts weren't even like settled by any manner of speaking compared to how they are now. Back then everything seemed kind of possible. You know, like everything kind of like, you know, dragons and shit like that. You're like, yeah, probably. I never, I never, I've no evidence otherwise.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I saw those big bones. What else could those be? That's a big ocean. I'm sure there's a big octopus in there. Yeah. He's got a huge drawn on the map.

I'm sure we're right. Yeah. Just draw that motherfucker. Tell people where he's going to be. Yeah. Yeah. Warn them. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, hell they were making up continents. They're just like, it's a lion mask. Like there's nothing there. Oh, trust me. It's there. Who's going to check? Yeah.

You're going to sail there? No. And these stories, right, that were told way back when there was no need to prove any of this. Like you guys were just saying, when Mathis brings up the weird Japanese snake thing from the last episode, he didn't start that story with my uncle was in Japan and saw no, no, yeah, exactly. He just told the story. Even the baseline though of like today, when we go to school,

we learned that every culture has their own myths and legends that are different and like grew from their mythology. Nobody knew that shit before, you know, like they'd show up and they'd be like, what is this? You guys believe what you guys are. Interesting too, because of how much stuff we've covered, what things we've covered that people still very much believe in. And like, you know, I wouldn't say I got upset that we covered it, but are like, you got to be careful, like talking about certain things. And I'm, you know, it's just, I find it fascinating because, you know, I don't know where, like,

it's just interesting. There are fascinating because, you know, I don't know where like, it's just interesting. There are certain things that just really linger. Yeah. And again, I looked online, I could find no evidence of the legend of the weird snake creature that in any way had a story being told with a storyteller had to stress involvement in the story. It just wasn't a thing that happened.

It's a very modern way of doing things. It somehow brings it down to earth so it's more believable by us. But similar to old myths and legends, these stories pass almost entirely by word of mouth or, you know, more likely these days, internet posts, creepypastas, subreddits, etc. And just like the stories of buried treasure or ghost stories or lost minds or cryptids, it includes real places and real descriptions of things because that, you know, adds to it and makes it a little bit more important sounding than just a story you're being told. A really great example would be the ancient myth of the Minotaur from from Greece. Yeah there is absolutely a Gnosis Crete and there are Minoan ruins there so yeah maybe it could be

real there could have been a Minotaur walking around. Who knows right there's it's a real location there's real stuff going on there. In modern times for example you might drop a location that serves as a setting you'd be familiar with. So, you know, it's a real place you can't make up when someone hears that they're like, Oh, damn, and they're bought in, in the 1950s and 60s all the time, there would be car based urban legends about lovers lane, and every city had a lovers lane. So you they didn't have to say where it was. You knew where. Yeah. It was like the easiest place to go.

Get sticky. Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. And you know, we'll be telling these stories and I want to make it clear though. Like Mathis was saying this episode isn't about debunking the stories. Yeah. I'm sure everyone a certain age remembers hearing a tale about like a rat tale and a Coke bottle or the old finger in the stories. I'm sure everyone a certain age remembers hearing a tale about like a rat tail in a Coke bottle or the old finger in the chili. Do we know that it happened for real? Do we know

where it happened? Maybe, maybe not, but it's definitely in the zeitgeist. It's stories that if we looked it up, we probably could find a story of a rat in a Coke bottle. And it's gross. Yeah. And it's just, and it's just like the effect of it. It's really, uh, like we all know about. Like a S like a Coke bottle and like, I guess in this case, urban, like we've seen dead rats around or like a huge piece of shit somewhere, you know, like there's something about it that just feels real. Yeah. And it gets you to check things and we'll get to why this works, but it's the same thing as a,

like a snake in, in your bed under the sheets. Right. Or, um, in the 1950s, there were tales about, you know, when, when women had like the big, uh, Marge Simpson beehive haircuts. Yes. Well, they would have to leave them like that for a long time. So there was a lot of stories of bugs being in them and things like that. Um, it's just the creep factor of it, the spooky factor. It serves as a warning, but also there's more to the talent and we'll talk about that. Um, but again, this information, this is, it's is it's about the story. It's about it. Uh, the story being told, right.

And this is kind of like us looking past, whether it's true or not, and just discussing the hows and why these stories are told, especially in this world today. I want to make this very clear, where AI and lots of completely bogus news are out there, we are barely aware these days that we are currently trafficking in the creation of modern folklore and urban legends. We are just creating things and then believing it. A great one that I'm so glad I wasn't the only person that got fooled by this. When there were fires here in LA, there was a lot of people posting images and video of the Hollywood sign on fire. So crazy, man. And

I remember sending it to Alex like, yo, what? And you were like, dude, that's fake. And I was like, no way. Anyway, there was on the news, I just saw this recently, these two dudes who panicked and ran up to go see the sign. And it was fun. On John Oliver, they did that. Yeah. And it's like, so it got people. And that is absolutely something that happens with Urban Legends is you kind of buy into it, whether it's real or not, because there's something in it that is it alerts you and somewhere warns you in some way of like, this is bad. I don't know if you're on the side of TikTok, but I somehow found found myself on the side of TikTok where there's a it's very specific AI slop of Jesus, and usually a very sick baby or child singing a song together like a praising song that is so clearly AI and then I open the comments and I just weep in

despair as oh so the best ones people are like praise Jesus oh my god this is beautiful but I'm like all right that is first off that is like I feel like they're low-hanging religious fruit and if I was very religious I'd be like insulted by it But anyway, the real winners the real winners are the ones that are like Hey, my name my name is like Septicles and I'm a Roman soldier. I was standing outside that tomb dude. I'm gonna show this to you. So Yeah, no, it's terrible's terrible okay that's a song and it's a baby with a microphone and Jesus with a cross around the baby's neck yeah the baby has one leg and a military like like veteran style like

prosthesis and for some reason a basketball a stomach that kind of looks like a care bear yeah he's got like a basketball care I'm gonna get a bear stomach. Yeah No, the real ones are the ones where it's it's clearly like a hey to camera like hey bros I was hanging out in the market. My friend told me Jesus he's like what and then it cuts through other guys like yeah No, I was there. I saw it go down. That was crazy, dude. Those are hilarious Yeah, yeah, those are actually really funny and stupid but but in general all the AI sucks. Yeah, anyway. Um, yeah, we, we, much like this, we simply listen to information that others tell us

or show us and then we pass it along to others more or less accurately than what we got it. And the information is what really sticks with us. And it's done in a story form. When I used to teach history, I would always try to make every lesson more or less, not about the date or the people or the location, but the story and why it was important to us, why all those events connected and that kind of giving people a reason to retain the information. Yeah.

And then when they had questions, then we could deep dive and, and this kind of giving people a reason to retain the information. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then when they had questions, then we could deep dive. And this form of disseminating folklore tales in a clear storyline is called narrative folklore. And it's, you know, if it's reported to be true, then it's a legend. A great example of this would be the narrative folklore of Johnny Appleseed here in the States. It is not real at all, but it's a fun story to explain trees. An American legend would be George Washington say, I cannot tell a lie while chopping down the cherry tree. There is zero evidence of that happening,

but it doesn't make sense to have been created by his biographer to sell books. Surprise, surprise. It's like a story featuring young young old George Washington instead of like an actual kid, a kid. Yeah. Yeah. But he chopped down the cherry tree and he got in trouble.

He's like, I did it. I'm so sorry. And I, it was supposed to endear him to you as a president, as the first president, he's like a kid, but he just still also wears Superman's outfit. It's like a little kid that has like a white wig on and wooden fake teeth and a little general's outfit on. What is that? I've never seen it told another way.

He wouldn't look like that as a little boy. No little boy dressed like the villain from Resident Evil 4. That did not happen. Well the thing is to this day people still talk to talk about it like it's real because that is a legend. It is purported to be true, hence it's a legend. And so urban legends are not narrative folklore. They're not like meant to be a tale that exists and is like, oh, that's fun.

Urban legends are meant to be seen as true. These are things that happened. They're also longer, less anecdotal, more complicated forms like fairy tales, epics, myths, ballads, and most that thrives in book and music or movie form. Right. The big thing here is that all of them are folklore and for it to be true folklore, it must continue to be disseminated, like told over and over and over, not lost the time. Classic examples, Gilgamesh, The Odyssey, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, King Arthur, that kind of stuff.

When you think about it, the movie The Ring or Ringu is literally that. The plot and conceit of the film is that. Basically exactly the same. Would you then consider, I mean, imagine you would then, something like Slender Man being a modern urban legend now. 100%. But would you consider any being a modern urban legend now 100% but star Yeah, would you wouldn't but I would you consider any creepy pasta urban urban legend or is there a threshold?

It has to cross because that's where Slender Man star What needs to be told over at least to like be disseminated amongst people right he's the same real in the world not Literally two girls almost killed a girl because yeah exactly so that. So that's why I'm saying like Sunderman definitely, I would say, fits for sure. Yeah. Yeah. But that not any creepypasta does have to, like you said, become virally December or just disseminate. Yeah. Like nobody believes, nobody really believes that there's a fake Disney like abandoned park

on an island like Jurassic Park where there's like living Mickey's. It's just scary. Right. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Right. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And, and not that scary, but kind of weird in a kids video game kind of way. But when we think about that, like Mathis was just saying it, like it's passed along via, you know, mass media, social media, that kind of thing, where it isn't really even about where it originally came from. Like if you were trying to describe to most people these days, where Slender Man came from, a lot of young people would have a hard time pinpointing

that weird YouTube series. Yeah, Marvel Hornets. Yeah, no way. Yeah. And it became so much bigger than it actually was and it developed lore and a backstory and how he takes kids to his house out in the woods. And if you're a good kid or you're parents are bad then he'll take care of you like there's a whole thing that spawned off of this that's absolutely insane compared to what it was just

a creepy video and now it's a thing and there are other you know uh we can say myths or narrative folk tales that exist that are like you know know, um, SCP level or as creepy pastas that are good, but they aren't at the same level as Slender Man or the, the Zelda cartridge. Yeah. Ben's dead or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Like those are legit urban legends. They're very, very good. Um, so really when it comes down to it, like I mean I guess we can be specific on this, so be it the 1950s or 1980s or 2010s whatever, the real passer of all these stories despite it being social media or whatever, the real way this translates around and disseminates is way this this translates around and disseminates is age mates, especially adolescents, but also office workers, people in religious groups, like if you're going for confirmation, you're a whole

group of people together, like that kind of thing, recreational activities, people you know you meet like social clubs, whatever the case may be, that is the way these stories really truly spread. And in a day of, you know, modern day internet, little forums and groups and your social groups online, that's how they spread. You're in a discord call with someone, someone tells you a thing they heard. That's how it spreads. And it's that trust that comes with being in a peer group and sharing with others, you know, friends telling stories. They stick with you more if it comes from a friend. Yeah. It's like, um, parents, this is a really great example.

You know, when people think about like, parents gotta raise their kids right. Really, truly what we've learned is that a lot of adolescent behavior is a result of who they hang out with rather than how much their parents bug them. It's like a little tribe that you get in. It's like a little, you get like a pre society little tribe. Yeah, yeah. The best a parent can do is be like, don't hang out with those asshole kids. Like, that's the best you can do. Other than that, their kids are going to hang out with who they hang out with and they're going to develop and learn from that group and they'll learn together. And then they'll share these stories, right? Um, think of your gossipy friend

or coworker. They are essentially serving the same function as the old wives tail spinners, right? They hear a thing and even if it's barely true, they are telling you that story and they usually tell it really well. Uh, I have like some like legend tripping type stories where I like went with my friends to go try and you know, witness things and do things. But we'll talk more about that later. Another another time. Definitely.

I mostly just has to do with me doing drugs. I got great young Jesse going to party stories that end up ridiculous. Yeah, but they're all so true that they sound ridiculous. That's how you know things are true, right? Right. But here's the thing. Also, there are parts that I can't confirm. Like in one story, I know where to escape the cops.

I jump over a fence. Now in my mind, that was a six foot fence. In reality, I don't know how big that fence was, but every time I tell that story, I'm jumping over a six foot fence. Five feet tall fence. In reality, I don't know how big that fence was, but every time I tell that story, I'm jumping over a five-feet tall fence. Every time. And because when I jumped, it clipped me and I fell and it ripped my pants. So I had to walk home with my, with my dong hanging out. It was a whole thing. Beginning of the cyberpunk quest.

These tellers of folklore, be it myself or Alex or you or anyone in your social group, are seldom aware of their role as a performer of folklore. They're not thinking about that. Well, except for hosts of really, really respected paranormal folklore podcasts. Nevertheless, at least on some level, everyone is aware of the performance, with their demeanor and speech carefully orchestrated, subtle gestures, eye movements, vocal inflections, dramatic flair. And just like great joke tellers, some people are naturally gifted, and some people simply

just can't do it. Like some people cannot tell a tale to save their life. Also like jokes, it's a living part of oral tradition. And despite being fictional or silly or, you know, meant to be humorous, they all have the same, there's like structure, right? They're snappy, they're brief, they have a punchline. Urban legends, while longer and slower and more serious, same structure, have a punch line, but that punch line is a twist or a shocking horror. Yeah, just like a little Twilight Zone bang at the end.

Exactly, exactly. And the most interesting part is that with each performance, the tale and the retelling of it through the lens of that performance grows and changes. By the end, just like Slender Man, it is completely different. Yet the through line is still the same. There is a line going through it that is like, this is the origin of what this is supposed to be. It's still Slender Man is still creepy as shit. He still hides in the forest. He's still kidnapped kids. He's right. But even though they add stuff to it and he's got a home and he's got friends, got a whole

Slender family at the end of the day, he's still- A slender mansion, yeah. A slender kid. Yeah, he's still, how dare you? So anyway, I would like us to consider the urban legend of the boyfriend's death. Now, Alex, I'm going to give this to you to start with. And I would like you to do me a favor and add or subtract anything you see fit in the story. You're the storyteller. I've just given you the basics. No, I'm going to crush this.

Don't even worry. This happened just a few years ago on the road that turns off the five highway by the holiday inn. The couple were parked under a tree out on this road. Well, it got to be a time for the girl to head back to her dorm. So she told the boyfriend they should head back, but the care, the car, wouldn't start. The girl thought he was playing around, stalling for time to make a move or something, but the boyfriend insisted there was something actually wrong. The girl wanted to call her friends, but sadly, the battery was out in

her phone. The boy looked around outside the car, it was dark and hard to see, but he knew the Holiday Inn was just up the road and he was going to walk to there to call someone to get help. He told the girl to stay with the car and lock the door since he didn't want her to talk, to take the dark road, but he also needed somebody to stay by the car just in case someone comes along. She can flag them down. The boy leaves, and for a bit she can hear his footsteps as he walks away, but soon she hears nothing. In fact, she hears nothing from inside the car.

Not crickets, not birds, nothing. Time passes and he still hasn't returned. The girl begins to worry, but suddenly the quiet night is broken by a strange scratching on the car roof. The girl, in a panic, tries to look out the windows of the car but sees nothing, only the scratch, scratch, scratch on the roof. Panicked, she hides in the back seat under a blanket her boyfriend brought along. Soon, sunlight peeks through the darkness and morning comes and with it, a car passing by. The girl opens the car door and flags them down. The

couple in the car look horrified as they approach. When the girl exits the car, she turns around to see her boyfriend, hanging from the tree above the car, his bare feet scraping against the roof of the car. That's why we call it Hangman's Road. Thank you for that. Thank you so much to Cash App for sponsoring today's episode. Yeah, you heard me right. We made it to the big time baby. Cash App sponsoring us.

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That's Cash App. Thank you so much to Cash App for sponsoring today's episode. Stories like this have been around for 50 plus years. Uh, the way it's told, the location, the reason for the young woman's abandonment might be different in those stories, but the reveal is always the same. And while the story has its origins, you know, in the past, it reached the height of its popularity in the 1960s, and, you know, more stories have branched off and grown from that. And there'll be a few we'll talk about, but the key to making it sink in with the listener is the addition of local touches, right? That identify it as more real. And what I gave Alex, I just took this story that I found online and changed it to the five highway because that's, that's LA. It makes it LA immediately.

Yeah. I'm like, I know where this is. I know the holiday and off the five. There's five of them that come to mind. Yeah. And so that's that's just a micro change for for him. And then anything else you wanted to add to it, he could. And that's how the storytelling works. In one version of the story from Indiana, the boyfriend is straight up just decapitated. In one version from Washington, the boyfriend is skinned alive. The rescuers, depending on where it is in the country, may be different. I like the scratchy foot because it's very cinematic. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. The people who saved them could be a passing couple. In other parts of the country it's the police. Sometimes in order to make a story more real it hearkens back to the tales of old. So in one great example the police tell the young woman when she exits the car to walk towards them and not turn around.

When she ignores their orders and does turn around she sees the reveal it's more shocking it plays into that age-old authority figure saying don't do this thing and you do it and you get hurt by it like Orpheus in the underworld Lot's wife the whole turning around ignoring the authority figure and you're punished tale as old as time um in the Canadian version, I love this. This is for you, Mathis. In the Canadian version of the story, there are some features that we just talked about that I think are really interesting.

And it's not the complete story, but it is leading up to the reveal. And you can immediately tell the differences. A guy and his girlfriend are on the way to a party when their car starts to give them some trouble. While the guy tries to fix the car, the girl listens to the radio. Suddenly the music is cut off by a news flash warning locals in the area of an escaped convict. The girl becomes worried and upset and wants to leave, but the guy still can't get the car to start.

He says he'll be right back and goes outside to check the engine. He pops the hood and disappears behind it while tinkering with the car. She rolls down the window and asks him to hurry. She's worried the convict will get her. The guy pokes his head from around the hood and says she's fine and he'll just be a minute. If she's so worried, put the blanket on the back seat over her. She laughs and asks what the good dad will do, and he says, it protected me from the monsters when I was a kid. The girl smiles and jokingly wraps the blanket around her. She continues to hear her boyfriend bang away on the engine, but the warmth of the blanket soon lulls her to sleep. When she wakes up,

she notices an hour has passed and the hood is still up. But now the banging is coming from the roof of the car. In this version of the story, the boyfriend shoes are still on. And that's what's causing the thought on the top of the car because the, the weight of him on the branch, it's sort of bouncing up and down the wind. So he goes, thud, thud, th causing the thud on the top of the car because the weight of him on the branch It's sort of bouncing up and down the wind so he goes thud thud Thud thud and same story different versions in the New Orleans version The story is not even about an escape convict. It's about a half human half sheep creature called the grunch

Fuck yes, dude With the I love the grunt walk have to hang out. They have to. This story, like other urban legends, it's popular because it's engrossing, but at its core there's a lesson here, right? These stories are presented as news with a larger meaning in them. Like on a literal level, the story is, you know, the boyfriend's death is there to warn you to avoid situations in which you might be endangered. But on a more symbolic level, the story reveals society's broader fears of people, especially women and the young being alone and worried about strangers in the darkness the world outside of their security of their home and their car basically the idea that like as a young woman in a scary world you're helpless

and passive powering under covers being told to stay behind. She only escapes the situation from help of others, often men of authority, because only when the young lovers are alone and vulnerable are they truly ever in trouble. But everything's fine when the authority figure shows up. This is huge in American-centric urban legends. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. It's like the day night. It's like the, sorry. It's the day night cycle of like safe and unsafe that like controls American life. Uh, because the suburbs are quite safe period in America. And so we, and so, but it's so big here that we just kind of have to figure out some way to make it

seem no, you know, exciting out there. Yeah. Yeah. And, no, you know, exciting out there. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I love the fact that these legends, these stories, usually explain the supernatural or something unusual in our natural world in a way that is very rational and easy to understand, right? You know, it wouldn't be as good of a legend if something wild and strange happened, but then at the end, the police or the adults couldn't handle the problem, right? Like, I don't know if they can handle the grunch, but they definitely could handle the escape convict. Oh, they can handle that grunch. And, um, yeah, these stories have these supernatural elements, but again, have a rational explanation.

It would be less compelling to a modern audience if space aliens showed up or the grunt showed up compared to the crazy guy who seems more real and down to earth, especially in a society where we love our serial killers and our like crime solving podcasts and stuff. That's a huge thing. As we move forward, like Alex was saying, these opposites are huge in these stories. Young versus old, life versus death, home versus away, good versus bad, reality versus fantasy. What's real versus what can be fake. Also, a lot of them are taking just views from Hollywood.

Now, and more modern urban legends, they're doing things like the rule of threes or Chekhov's gun, you know, like storytelling. The actual writing tropes, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Many of the boyfriend's story includes the three times, right, so in one story, the sound of the scratching is scratch, scratch, scratch.

And another story, the girls ordered not to turn around three times by the cops. And then she finally does it. Um, yeah, these modern topics are geared towards modern audiences. Like, like this story could not exist without the concept of a car. Like you have to understand what a car is in order to even have this story. And that's like a thing that is kind of like your house, but like comes with you and is like the perfect setup

because it has locks on it and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's kind of safe, but is it safe? I don't know. And I think subconsciously, we all understand that access to a car for a young person is about freedom and the ability to separate themselves from their home and family or friends for a considerable amount of time and just like some people

just get in the car and drive just to get away from stuff and that is kind of a safe haven and to make a story about being in a car and it's not safe is very creepy for people and as Americans our parents grew up in a post-world war II that was fascinated by cars. You know, you just ask your parents or grandparents. Absolutely. And we are a country so in love with cars and the idea of the open road that two of us right now live in a city specifically built for cars and not mass transit.

Which is insane, but not even really a city. Yes, just like a bunch of little cities with cars. So a lot of the urban legends that we have revolve around cars. More importantly, cars and men who like. Not men, young boys who think they can handle the situation and girls who are completely passive and are just like, help me. And the young man fails completely. And then adults have to show up and save the day. Right.

So that is a huge thing that happens there. But also there are stories geared towards adults, not teens. This next one for Alex is absolutely geared towards adults. You'll hear hints of this that sound like a Reddit story. It probably was at some point. But this version literally was published in the Chicago Tribune in Ann Landers column. And if you don't know who that is, ask your grandparents. Yeah, Ann Landers, holy God. Yeah.

But this is a real version published in a real newspaper of a real story? A man in California saw an ad in the paper for an almost new Porsche in excellent condition. The price? Fifty dollars. He was certain the printers had made a typographical mistake, but even at five thousand dollars it would have been a bargain, so he hurried to the address to look at the car. A nice looking woman appeared at the front door. Yes, she had placed the ad.

The price was indeed fifty dollars. The car, she said, is in the garage. Come and look at it. The fellow was overwhelmed. It was a beautiful Porsche, and as the ad promised, nearly new. He asked if he could drive the car around the block. The woman said, of course, and went with him. The car drove like a dream. The man pulled out fifty dollars and handed it over, somewhat sheepishly. The woman gave him the necessary paperwork and the car was his. Finally, the new owner couldn't stand it any longer and had to know why the woman was selling a Porsche for such a ridiculously

low price. Her reply was simple. With a half-smile on her face, she said, "'My husband ran off with his secretary a few days ago and left a note instructing me to sell the car and house. He wasn't coming back, but he wanted half the money. So I'm doing what he asked. This story is, as far as I'm concerned, the exact same thing that is posted today on Reddit in the, uh, am I overreacting or am I the asshole? That kind of stuff.

I still have friends like who I can think of quickly who like gas themselves up with like an impossible like, you know, the first scene in Rushmore where he liked the teachers like, well, there's this math problem, but of course no one can ever solve it. It's the hardest math problem in the world. And then they just like solve it. He solves it. And he's like, they're like, oh my God, he's so smart. How did he do? Everybody's, you know, clapping for him. I feel like this is that type of scenario also where it's like, you kind of go through stuff that's pretty mundane in your life, like you kind of like, you know, just wait in line for three hours and get your driver's license or whatever.

Or, you know, whatever you're doing, that's mundane. And then you need to like make your life interesting. You need to make the world more interesting in some way. And so you have these sort of like magical realism stories that happen that take place in like a heightened reality. I feel like almost like urban legends in general, like, you know, core line, like how there's like the one world and then there's like this other like similar world, it feels like that to me, it feels like there's like another scary world where

urban legends happen. And yeah, that's how like a Simpson's Halloween special. That's a really, yes, that's a really good way of putting it. Yeah. It's, it makes you, it is deceptive, right? If you go going back to the Reddit ones, for example, if you go look up like some really popular version of, am I the asshole or am I overreacting or whatever? You will notice that those often, if you click on the person who posted them, they're posting like 12 different stories. Oh my God. Yeah. It is clearly just designed to be a story, but people take it in as being real because it's, it's a good, good for her for screwing over her husband kind of story, that kind of thing. real because it's a good, good for her for screwing over her husband kind of story, that kind of thing. And so you internalize it like, yeah. But when you think about it, would a

man who is running off with his secretary not do so in the Porsche? Right. Yeah. Why would he be like, sell the everything, give me half also? Yeah. And would he trust his wife to do that? Right? Like, why would he do that? The story changes in Morse Over Time to answer those questions, which I found very funny. In one version, the man died and in the will, he states the car is either to be given to or sold off and then the money paid out to his mistress. The wife still sells the car, very cheap, screws over the mistress and gets back at her husband. Right? The same through line and everything that has changed things to make it seem a little

more real. This story, as far as I can find, and shout out to, you know, Brunvold. Brunvold? That's Brunvand. Wunder van Braun. Yeah, just make it up, Dave. There's version of this story going back to 1940s England, right? The idea of just getting back at someone, it has appeal. No matter how it's told, the pleasure, the dramatized pleasure of getting even is real. People love that stuff. Another classic example of an urban legend is one that has been told countless times. It's in fact the name of the first book that I read and math this. This is for you.

This is a classic. He saw an ad in the paper that someone wanted to sell an Alvis sports car for 20 pence. All right. This happened to one of my girlfriend's best friends and her father a few nights ago. They were driving along the back roads of Texas on their way home when they say when they saw this girl hitchhiking on the side of the road. It was late and they decided to stop and help her out.

She got on the back seat and told the girl and her father that she lived in a house about five miles down the road. She didn't say anything after that and just looked out the window when the father saw the house and drove up to it and turned around to tell the girl they had arrived. But when he looked, she wasn't there. Both he and my girlfriend's friend were freaked out and confused. You know, my girlfriend's friends, they just can't let stuff go. So this girl gets out of the car and goes up to the house to knock on the door

and tell the people who live there. What happened? A woman answers the door. And this girl explains the hitchhiker and picking her up and coming to the house and the vanishing. The woman at the door turned white. She explained that she once had a daughter who disappeared some years ago while hitchhiking on this very road. Today would have been her birthday. Womp womp womp! Classic Vanishing Hitchhiker story. It's pretty basic, right? It does the job. It sets everything up. We have all the elements of an urban legend, right? But the story continues and

it grows and over time more and more stuff is added to it. But again, the same structure is there. And so I have a version for Alex that builds, it builds in little highlights of when things are there. So, um, they're in little brackets for you Alex, so you can read them as you will. Okay. A traveling driver. Is it like, do you want to do it like that? Well, it's a traveling salesman driver. Okay. Yeah. Okay. A traveling salesman driver who lived in Spartansburg authentication was on his way home one night, which is the setting, when he saw a woman walking along the side of the road, who in

this case is the hitchhiker. He stopped his car and asked the woman if he could take her where she was going. She stated that she was on her way to visit her brother who lived about 13 miles up the road. That's her address. The man recognized the name as a man he had worked with once but didn't know he had a sister, Authentication. The man recognized the name as a man he had worked with once but didn't know he had a sister. Authentication. He asked her to get in the car and sit by him, but she said that she would rather

get in the back. That's her location in the car. Conversation took place for a while as they rode along, but soon the woman grew quiet. Then, man drove on until he reached the home of the woman's brother, then stopped the car to let the woman out. When he looked behind him, there was no one in the car. That's the disappearance. He felt that rather strange curiosity or concern, so he went to the house and informed the brother that the lady in the car who claimed to be his sister had vanished. The brother didn't seem alarmed at all, stating that he rarely ever talked about his sister because it was too weird. She had died two years earlier. That's identification. But you see, he wasn't the first man to visit him. He was in fact the seventh man who was traveling on this

road at night who offered to help pick up his sister and take her to his house. But she had never managed to reach the home. One thing that probably stands out from that is the fact that in both versions, people in the home take everything kind of on faith that the person who arrived at the car with the car is telling the truth and alex's version the story features the connector that you know it's a brother that the guy knows but that still seems far-fetched that you would kind of know that guy so most of the versions involve something like cloth being left behind or a scarf being left behind, a bit of reality added to the supernatural to make it seem more real. Like, oh, she left her purse. That's how we can

identify her. That kind of crazy is that this actually totally reminds me of there was like an unsolved, you know, the new unsolved mysteries. Yes. Yeah. They like in one of the seasons, they did like a entire just like overview of like the way that the tsunamis from 2011, like affect Japanese culture. And one of the stories in that literally, I think it's like multiple reports of cab drivers, picking up people in like heavy coats, because they're like, it's so hot. Why are you wearing that? And then drives the person after they tell them where to go. And then by the time they get there, the fair is gone because they were like a ghost from the, who died in the fucking tsunamis. Yep. This is, this is a story that, uh, is told over and over again, throughout

multiple cultures, like it, you're totally right, Alex. It is all over the place. In this show, it is completely told as if it is real, like that they are real accounts from real cab drivers. So that's why it's kind of interesting because it's like, there's this sort of like passing on of a story element, but there's also this like mimetic element where it repeats itself. You know what I mean? Like the actual events themselves repeat. That's- We will actually get into this in a sec here,

because I found some really interesting stuff. I was like, okay. But yeah, the whole idea of identification, the things that Alex was pointing out, the, you know, making sure it sounds as real as possible. Well, you need to add stuff to it. So again, you have the purse, you have, you know, additional things added to it, right? Um, and then you also try to make it more realistic. So talking about a, uh, deserted road does not fly in LA. That's not a thing that exists in Los Angeles. However, in the LA versions of the story, it's usually we pick them up at a club or a party. They were standing outside, they looked depressed or whatever, and we offered them a ride home. And Alex, if you would be so kind, I wrote this for you. This is a Jesse Cox original version

of this story. This is the LA version. Have fun. All right, here we go. Believe it or not, this actually happened to our boy Davis. He and this girlie thing went out to dinner downtown and as they were going to get their car, they saw this 20 something girl sitting on the curb looking sad. They asked what was up and she said she missed her ride and was left behind. They offered to take her home because she lived in Burbank, which is pretty far from downtown, and it would be way too far to walk introducing herself as Becky Weprin. They all got in the car and she got in the back seat. It was a cold night and Davis being a gentleman gave her his coat to stay warm until the heat kicked in. When they passed the Forest Lawn Cemetery, which is in fact on the way to Burbank, she asked them if they

could stop for a minute. Davis, assuming the girl was sick and going to puke, pulled over and let her out. I've been in many Ubers where this is the case. But when she didn't come back, they got concerned. Turning off the car, the two walked into the cemetery to find the girl calling out to her. Aggravated that they were doing this instead of being at home on a cold LA night, Davis was about to give up when he noticed his jacket draped over a headstone. As he lifted it off the grave, the name it revealed was Becky Weprin. The girl from the car who's sitting in the back seat. So, the fun thing about making up a version like that is The Vanishing Hitchhiker is like, it's a universal story it's derived from older legends it's updated constantly from modern audience. It's the same story as the bow it's the same

exact story yeah yeah yeah the ribbon around the neck yeah what's hilarious is literally this morning I saw you know how there's TikTok videos where they hint at like what it's actually about but they don't say I saw one was you know some model girl looking gorgeous and this weird filter on it that made it where they hint at like what it's actually about, but they don't say. I saw one where it was, you know, some model girl looking gorgeous and this weird filter on it that made it seem like sepia tone. It's her watering plants, but the obvious thing is that she's wearing this sundress, but she has a blue ribbon around her neck and she's like when she's a ten, but she tells you under no circumstances to remove the blue ribbon around her neck. And I was like, ah, that's a modern version of the same story of that

girl's head's going to fall off. Yeah. And the, the, the, the headstone jacket thing. I remember using that in like fourth grade in a story that I wrote, you know, and I probably read it in scary stories to tell in the dark or some shit like that. Yeah, absolutely. These, these ghost stories continue on over and over and over again. And it's not just urban legends, it's myths and legends of old. Things like the flying

Dutchman or horse travelers in the 1800s, 19th century who would have people get on their back. Like there's a great story in Arkansas from the early 1900s, where a girl rides on a horse with a man and she's holding his waist and breathing on his neck. And what makes the story so great is that the young man takes her to her father, who's a local judge, and the entire time he feels the breath, the touch, everything. And then only when he looks back to she changed and it is gone. But I love that because it adds another layer to it where he can cheese. You're expecting it. You yeah, they're like setting it up like cinematically besides just factually. Yeah. And it also goes back to the idea of

turn around something insane happens, which is an element we talked about before. But there's also, like you were talking about, versions from Korea and Japan, but their origins date back to the 40s and 50s, which sounds to me like pre post war times for those countries. Sounds like American soldiers coming and telling ghost stories. Absolutely. Or maybe, I don't know, those stories being there, and then we took it back with us. I generally don't know. those stories being there, and then we took it back with us. I generally don't know parallel even parallel, like, because of how similar all the stories are like, you know, you hear those stories, and I, you know, this is just me kind of like,

spitballing. So forgive me if I butcher it, because I'm not trying to talk about one specific culture, but like, the idea of the sky being like a blanket that goes over the world and then some somebody pokes holes in it to make the stars. Like I've heard that in first nation type stories. I've heard that in other continents on the globe. And to me, and it's not always exactly the same, there's always something about pulling a big sheet over the nice, bright sky, and there's holes in it for some reason. And to me, like, this could be that too. Like, there could be just something about the nature of cabs, or the nature of picking strangers up off the street, that just the notion of a stranger being a dead person is like somehow, you know, in our bones, like that's, you know, in the

same way vampires just are everywhere. Remember I was saying witches, like witches are powerful because we don't actually know who invented them, you know, because they're so ubiquitous. It's like something like that. Yeah. And this isn't like it is in our bones and it's not just a cultural thing. There's versions from the 1890s in Russia. There's versions all over the place. There's even hilariously a Mormon version and I love how very specifically Mormon it is because in all the other versions, it's like, it was a ghost and that ghost vanished

and isn't that creepy? And the Mormon version- They just keep driving. Don't pick up the hitchhiker. Oh no, it's too tempting. It's one of those things that's exactly that, Alex. It's basically, um, the Mormons, when they go to pick up the person or not, it is basically a knee fight. Okay. And that it's one of Jesus's dudes. And I guess they're kind of like, you should pick them up. You should pick them up. And if you don't,

that could have been one of Jesus's dudes. You didn't pick up like that kind of vibe. Huh? Yeah. And, um, nevertheless, the legend always retains that basic plot line of a person. Like the warning is that you weren't nice enough. Pretty much. Yeah. Oh God, how horrifying. And so the, you know, the woman who reached some sort of tragic end and then

she needs a ride, but to where, for what reason to be at rest, who knows? Then she's gone. This story, just like the dead boyfriend story is used to impart lessons. Like be careful who you pick up or don't go hitchhiking, especially if you're a young woman. And, you know, it's super scary out there in the world, so, you know, be careful. And then, the supernatural bit elicits a fear response in you, the listener, and so you're like, damn, maybe I shouldn't do those things who knows what's out there and to be real

Scaring people works it has worked frequently and continues to work basically telling people either that they're going to die or they're not going to get into heaven is like the number one way to like Control people for like 2,000 years. Yeah, especially at a time where you don't know how like the nature works, you know, and you just like, I got the answer. Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about. It's like you're willing to believe whatever just because you don't know. Like, you know, like when you're talking to old people about computers

and they just make like bold guesses that don't make sense. How things work. And you're like, huh? Like what? Yeah. Like, what are you talking about? Can't you just beam it? Can't you just Bluetooth it to me? I'm like, I'm over here. Bluetooth goes 40 feet. What are you talking about? They think it doesn't enter into this. Yeah. It's the idea again. You just kind of assign magic to what you don't know or don't you don't understand? And I think everyone's childhood, everyone's childhood is filled with, you know, these ghostly threats and spooky moments that are designed to scare you. But they usually involve your friends and things like Bloody Mary or light as a feather, stiff as a board, those kinds of things. But when children mature into teenagers these scares, the

things that that worry them, are not the same. Right? They're looking for more plausible, believable things. Things that could actually happen to them. And more importantly, these urban legends feature them. So dating couples, students, babysitters, all put through horrible, grueling ordeals. That's why the majority of scary movies are about teens being brutalized for two hours. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Right. It's like, hey, me and my buddies were chatting one Friday night on AIM and somebody accidentally came into our chat room called B. Weprin. We were hanging out all night chatting and we made plans to meet up in the morning for breakfast at the diner across from the cemetery. When we got there, B. Weprin didn't show up, but we saw a memorial plaque or whatever that she was dead or something. You know, I don't know.

She, you know, she always used to sit in the cafe and chat with friends online, you know, like that type of thing. Of course, in the, in the kid version, you wouldn't go outside in the kid version. You just get an email. You'd like Google, you go on archive.org and find out that she, or you watch a YouTube video saying that she's dead or some shit like that. Yeah. no. And beyond all of that, again, a reminder, it all serves as a warning. This could happen to you. If you you know, if you get caught in these situations. That's why the big funny thing about

scary movies is everyone's like, just leave. Yeah, don't go in the basement. Walk away. And everyone who does the thing you shouldn't do ends up dead horribly, every time. These stories also have thinly disguised sexual themes that are very implicit in the nature of stories involving teens alone for the first time, lovers' lanes, babysitters who are essentially playing house, right? Cautionary tales about the world's dangers Wrapped up in these twisted gruesome stories Take this classic for math is to read this is from the 1960s

And it was sent to dear Abby love it who again ask your grandparents But this is hilarious because this was sent as a real thing like a real. Please be worried This is hilarious because this was sent as a real thing. Like a real, please be worried. Here we go. This is the Zodiac speaking. Dear Abby, if you're interested in helping teenagers, you'll print this story. Already bad. I already love it.

A fellow and his date pulled into their favorite lovers lane in quotations to listen to the radio and do a little necking. The music was interrupted by an announcer who said that an escaped mental patient who was convicted of rape and robbery was in the area. He was described as having blonde hair, gray eyes, a slim build, and more importantly, a hook for a hand. The girl became worried and although the boy told her there was nothing to worry about, he finally in a huff gave in and quickly slammed on the gas to drive her home. When the boy went around to open the car door for her, he sought a hook on the door handle. I don't think I will ever park to make out again for as long as I live.

I hope this does the same for other kids. Jeanette. Thanks, Jeanette. I think we've all heard this story. PG-13, like when they they do a PG 13 remake of like a movie from the 70s that rated R and like in this one, the kid lives, you know what I mean? Like he almost, they almost got her. Almost got him. Yeah. It's interesting because a lot of our shit is very clearly puritanical. Yes.

A lot of it is sex bad, sex bad, sex bad. Because I think about Japan, I'm sure there are some sex bad ones in Japan, but a lot of their shit is very like almost unknowable. The reasons like that, like things are happening are almost like too mysterious. Why you always leave a note like why the ghosts show up in like Japanese lore. A lot of the time it's like more motion based and whatnot of like shit happening. I guess there's a lot more deep cultural connection to those concepts, too I guess what I'm getting at is even in our folklore America is so heavily a puritanical like there's that thought process of like sex

Oh, we'll get there. Even the yeah heinous violence we could put on movies We're like hokey, but like also so brutal. Yeah, it's that's like like think about like Cowboys It's like Cowboys are like the rootinist tootinist little fuck But then like when you talk to your grandpa about the baddest ass thing It's like the wild bunch, you know where there's just like Cowboys like murdering dudes And I'm not saying it's like a lot of people I know out here who are both, you know Supposedly very Christian and also extremely ready to be violent at any given opportunity I mean it's it's in every movie, the couple having sex gets murdered. Exactly. Exactly. It's all.

This is literally the plot of like Halloween. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, this is almost like standard. It's almost like it's almost like Halloween is doing like a like a postmodern. Yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of our Hollywood culture comes from the urban legend myth. I mean, hell the hook in car story. I remember my dad telling me while camping one time, that's funny.

It has the jump scare. It has the perfect like flashlight under the chin vibe. The only hook one I know is the hash slinging slasher from SpongeBob. Yeah. Part of the appeal of it comes from the fact that the plot is so tidy, everything fits. But the funny part is that it's the lack of loose ends that makes this story impossible. Like after all, what are the odds that a criminal? What was it was rapist and robber a

Crazed maniac would be fitted with a hook in prison. Yeah, what do you need that? He's got a kind of have a hand. It's just not nice. Oh look you got a how do you like? Why would they do that? You wouldn't give him a medal like the thing that you don't want them to carve out of their fucking spoon I'm sure they put a little plastic safety cap in the thing. That's what it is. It's got a big orange tip, like a fucking saber that you buy at the 99 cent store. Yeah, I think that's what happened.

They put that on there in the hospital and that's why you use the door handle instead of breaking the window. Yeah, that's how he got out. Yeah. I mean, the fact that he would show up right when it's broadcast over the radio, also nonsense. Yeah. And the fact that a couple would drive away fast enough to pull the man's hand off and have it launch in the door. To be fair, I've been at the gas station a couple of times.

Yeah, those gas pumps. I've seen some shit at the gas station. It's too much. It's ridiculous, but it does make a great story Um, this is another version for math is to read that is straight up just a Better version of it same idea, but different story. I guarantee you've all heard this It's not the hook man But same idea a woman left work late at night and took her usual route home along a dark deserted highway She stopped at a gas station to grab a coffee and fill up the tank on the way. After her brief stop, she hopped back into her car and resumed her drive home. A minute later, she noticed a car coming up behind her in her rearview mirror. The car began to flash its headlights and honking its horn. She didn't

recognize the vehicle, and a little afraid, she sped up to try and lose the car. The car kept with her and put on its high beams. The woman kept speeding up, searching for anywhere she could stop for help. There were no houses, no stores, and not even a turn off. The car behind her lurched, ramming her rear bumper. Fearing for her life, she floored it, speeding away from the dangerous car behind her. After a short while, she left the dark, deserted highway and turned onto a well-lit city road. The car continues to follow, and as she pulled into her driveway, she got out and tried to run to her door.

But as she did, the man in the car shouted, call the police! The woman confused looked back at the man, noticing in that moment, her own car's backseat door was open, and running from the scene was a in that moment, her own car's backseat door was open, and running from the scene was a man in a dark hoodie with a knife. He had been in her car the entire time, and the man behind her was trying to warn her. So crazy. Yeah, that's a weird one. Yeah, just like the last one, it's about a killer, except this time it's not outside

the car, he's inside the car. And that's the twist here. And that's what these stories, they keep growing and changing. This is just another version of killer coming to get the kids, be it the swinging kid and he's dead on the tree or the hook and the thing. This time, this woman, again, a woman by herself, so helpless, a man in another car needs to save her, right? That's the idea here. And it turns out that, uh, yeah, a different twist is that he's not at all. Outside he's inside and you just didn't notice. And then inside turning comfort against you is huge in more modern tales.

Literally the call was coming from inside the house. Yup. Well, Alex, this is for you then. Do you like scary movies? All right. Yeah. There was a babysitter in Montreal who was taking care of three children in a pretty big house, like 90s big, like Home Alone big,

while the parents were away for the night. It was late and kids were all asleep. she was watching TV and suddenly the phone rang. Not wanting to wake up the kids, she picked it up quickly. On the other end of the line was silence. Hello? She asked. But the only reply she received was a man slowly laughing, like a lunatic, on the other end.

Weirded out, she hung up the phone. Thinking about it for a while, she stood up and explored the ground floor of the house, checking to make sure doors were locked and windows closed just to make herself feel at ease. Eventually, her nervousness passed and she went back to watching TV. About fifteen minutes later, she received another call. She quickly picked up the phone again, this time hoping it was the parents, but again, all she heard was the laughing on the other end of the line

I'm going to get you he said before she hanged up come on make that a little If you heard somebody going If he was like I'm going to get you there. That would be awful. No, I can picture is Dennis Reynolds for that always says like get you there that would be awful. The only picture is Dennis Reynolds for that always says like, ah, he says like, I'm gonna get your bitch. Okay. Anyway, no longer taking any chances. She attempted contacting the

operator and asked if there was a way to trace the call explaining the threat and the weird laughter. The operator agreed to help out and about 15 15 minutes later the guy called again, laughing hysterically at the girl. She asked him why he was doing this, but he ignored her. She hung up the phone, and five seconds later the operator called panicked and screaming, Get out! The call is coming from inside the house!

The girl turned to run out of the house, looking behind to see a man standing at the top of the stairs holding a bloody knife. She ran into the street and into the night. When the police arrived, they discovered the bloody bodies of the children she had left behind. It was the ghost face killer. No. Or if it's Drew Barrymore, they found Drew Barrymore. Yeah. I mean, it's literally scream. It's just another version of the scream story. Yep. Except that one's just older. Um, but what I love about this, that story has the rule of threes and has all sorts of stuff going on in it that is just good storytelling. I

had to include this folklorist Sue Samuelson who examined hundreds of the man upstairs style stories concluded the telephone is the most important story. Like the most important part of the story with the use of phone cellular otherwise it negates a part of the story. Like the most important part of the story. With the use of phones, cellular, otherwise, it negates a lot of the stuck in car stories. Like if you're stuck in your car, you just make a phone call now. Right, and again, but this, when you're at home, or someone else is in your home,

it suddenly isn't your own anymore. And having a phone makes, it doesn't do anything for you. It takes everyone's favorite form of communication and socialization and uses it against them. It's why a lot of creepypastas online these days are about ghosts in the machine or weird images or websites you shouldn't look at or places to go on the internet that are creepy. And you know, Alex, for some reason knows a lot about is, you know, Yeah, there's also one rising right now, you know, with with AI and people talking to AI

and to believing like they're these like ghosts or demons or channeling anything like and that shit is like getting wild on on the internet very quickly. That's going to be another thing of like, there was a guy who did suicide by cop because he like, he like fell in love with a, like vert, like an instance of chat GPT that he created, that he named that was like, I'm she like, yes, ended him so hard that he was like, Oh, sure. That she was alive and online and was like being trapped and was killed by the chat GPT team. And like, they were like messing with him and, and like, you know, this is obviously a story that went to the extreme because this guy actually did do suicide

by cop and like ran out into the street and yeah, there's another guy who did the same thing but not from a chat GPT from a separate like third party AI where he believed he was truly talking to the Daenerys Targaryen and in order to go join her in like, you know, her world, he had to die first. So I think that's where the like, I think that's where the question mark is right now, right? Like, right in the time where we're talking about the hook hand or people making out, right, like another thing we're thinking about, and this is like a big part of like,

when you think about the effect that zodiac had on America, when you think about the fact that Zodiac had on America, when you think about the fact that, the effect that Charles Manson had on America, and you think about things like James Dean and Rebel Without a Cause, and you think about how there was no culture for teenagers until like the 50s or so, like after the war. Like the unknown. In the span of human history,

like we are having like childhood and teenager youth is super brand new. The frontier is very basic for teens, like going out at night alone and whatever happens to teenagers at night alone was the unknown then. And now the unknown is like, because we can like look at a live GPS of like anything, you know, now the unknown is like, what about that voice that talks to me? Like, what if it was real? What if it was able to turn my webcam and look at me and you know, all that kind of thing.

And what's crazy about that is it ties back into, you know, the fears of modern audiences, right? For example, we have four movies in the last five years about having an AI person in your home who goes crazy and kills you. Yeah. Megan. Uh, the one where, uh, Megan Fox is like a sex bot, like Megan and yeah, Megan, literally Megan Fox also separately. I'm trying to think of the other one. There was a X Machina. There's, there's a bunch. Oh, the one that just came out with what's his face, uh, from the boys, even in in the early 2000s I guess when the internet was really starting to take off we had bicentennial man We had but that was VR like we're jacking into a place. What's now coming to our home? What's the plot of the Robin Williams guy who like he was a robot?

I thought you long or man. Sorry remember Steven Spielberg's AI where like six sense kid is like yeah Like but that but that wasn't but those were more, right? Like AI is a movie is hyper fantastical. What about dead movies we've seen lately are not, isn't that a thing too? I haven't seen it, but it's like, it's like a horror movie. Dead reckoning, like the part, the part one and two. Yes, yes. That, the dead reckoning series, uh, the last mission impossible movies are about AI and how it can manipulate everything. And the bad guy literally is a dude who works for the AI, like that kind of thing. And so, um, it relates to us, but the reason it relates so well, and the reason why we're seeing more of it and people want to watch it is because unlike say aliens, which are a thing and people talk about, it seems too fantastical.

So there aren't a lot of alien based movies. There's even a lot in the alien world. There's aspects of that. That's super clearly just folklore that's been built on forever. Sure. Yeah. Like are just not really real in a lot of ways. But you notice when people were concerned about this stuff flying overhead, it wasn't necessarily, oh, that's aliens. No, people were like, I don't give a shit. I just want to know what it is. And they were more like, is it the government? Is it the military? They were looking for real answers.

I was looking for real answers. You know what I mean? Because that's even somehow more scary that we can't control a person or an AI doing it or whatever, or Elon Musk, like Grok is like, who knows? But that's, it's that kind of level where, you know, if it was a creepy, like aliens had come to earth movie, it isn't as popular as a movie about an AI girl named Megan who just kills people. Like that's crazy to me, that's popular, but people love that kind of stuff.

When you do refresh the alien story, right? And you change it to be more compatible with our reality. Like, nope, does better. Yeah, boom. It suddenly connects to everybody again in a different way. Yeah, yep. Exactly. We got more we've gotten beginning a lot more interdimensional multi reality movies, even outside of comic book. Well, that's because we're getting more articles about the nature of reality. And so it seems more real. And so people are like, Whoa, I think that's, but also Eldridge stuff continues to do well because it literally is the unexplainable and the unexplainable is always terrifying. Oh, absolutely. Like I love Eldridge horror, but in all of it. And I love shout to Samuelson for this because again, Sue Samuelson, the folklorist killing it. She also says

babysitting in the story that Alex read is important as a socializing experience for young women, allowing them to practice the social role that society places on them of raising children. And again, she says this is imposed by a male-dominated society as homemakers and mothers. That is like what they're training for in the babysitting scenario. Significantly, the threatening male figure is always upstairs or on top of the helpless girl, controlling the entire situation and only through others helping her can she make it out and she usually saves herself and allows the kids to die. And the man brings a massive catastrophic failure that the mother or the babysitter in this case suffers from. She abandons the kids, the kids die and she has no way to help them. Right? And there

are versions where the kids don't die. My life is more important kiddos. Yeah, like there are versions of the kids don't die. There's a version where the kids are doing the prank and it's not even real. But the point's the same. The objective is clear. It's warning young women that like be careful, but also you're the babysitter. So take care of those damn kids. My mom, when she was a kid, I remember the story. She was a babysitting is probably in the like 1977 78 area.

And she was babysitting a kid. And at night, some dude with a hoodie pulled up in like completely dark and face ran up to the window and started knocking on the windows and trying to get into the fucking house and shit. And like when he realized he couldn't, he just took off. She called the cops, obviously, but like they never knew who was or why. Like, you know, like that shit does kind of happen. Yeah, that's what makes these stories seem more likely is because weird stuff like that does happen.

And so who's to say this didn't ever happen. Right. I've had people come to my house and be weird. You know what I mean? Like, there's no question that it happens, but the cinema, the cinema of it all is what's so fun. And it isn't just a, you know, Simonson goes on to say that like women being helpless and in sort of like, you know, men can save them. Isn't the only version of this. There's the flip side, which is the stories of the

seductress who's actually a killer, which again, the moral for that is for men. Don't step on out on your wife or go for easy women cause you'll lose more than your marriage. Isn't that the species movie? Is it? I mean, species is like who like brings you in to murder you, you know? Sort of. Yeah, yeah. Best Kiss of the Year MTV Movie Awards. There's a. Am I wrong on that movie or is it? No, no, that's basically what it is. That's basically what it is.

But if you want to see a movie that's more like that, watch that Scarlett Johansson movie from like a couple of years ago. Under the skin, I was there. I got there. We got there. OK, I've never even heard of it. And unsurprisingly, but interestingly enough, I want to wrap us up here with something I saw that I think is amazing where as time moved on and we leave the sixties fifties, we move into the seventies eighties nineties, two thousands, the idea of the, you know, uh, patriarchal urban legend shifts, but in an interesting

way that I think is quite funny because now there's a pushback, but a pushback on the pushback. So take the baby, the babysitter story, but this time she is a woman who knows what she wants and does what she wants and she's living her life and she's great. This one, because you don't trust women who do drugs, I believe is what this story is trying to tell us. Alex this is for you. Oh man. The couple with a little baby had to go to a work event and couldn't bring their child. Thankfully the girl next door was free and could babysit for a few hours. The mom told her that the baby would sleep most of the night and if she could be so kind before they got home to put a nice roast in the fridge for her to start cooking for

them. Just put it in the oven at 400 degrees, the mom said, we'll do the rest. There was also milk in the fridge for the baby, too. After the parents left, the girl got bored and opened up her purse. Inside were some pills she would take from time to time to get her high. Pills? She figured a boring night at this boring house watching TV could use a pick-me-up. Eventually she heard the baby cry and decided to rock him back to sleep.

He wouldn't stop, so she took him to the kitchen to get the milk. While the baby drank from the bottle, she set the oven to 400 degrees to start the roast. A few hours later, the mother called to check in and say they were headed home. "'Everything's fine,' said the girl. I put the roast in the oven and put the baby back to bed. When the mother and the husband arrived home, they went to check on the baby only to discover the roast placed in the crib. Running downstairs, they discovered the girl had put the baby in the oven instead of the roast. And he was delicious. Just kidding. And that's the story.

Don't want to waste any good meal. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, like that's a story that isn't just in American culture. It's all over the world. But the whole point is like, these girls these days, they do their own thing and take drugs and watch out. They're insane. You can't trust any girls. You better know who these people are, which is totally different before. They'll be showing their ankles. Yeah. Before the women in the stories were helpless and couldn't do anything. And now they're the bad guys. They're just like, insane things that they would never do. Yeah. Right, right, right. And it's, you know, while the origins are disputed of where the story comes from, there's a version from Africa in which it's a dialect mix up, which I thought was an interesting take on it, where, and my apologies, this is, I don't know how to

say this at all, but it's, effek men eyin orokatam, don't know what that means, probably said it terribly, but it's a phrase that could either mean sit the baby up or cook the baby. And you can guess where that story goes. Oh my God. Right. And this is, this is similar to when microwaves exist. Suddenly people are like, they microwave the baby. And I think we can all remember growing up and people making baby microwave jokes.

Oh, my God, dude. It we like that was a dark thing, but people did it. We all said shit we regret back in like the late 90s in the early. But that's where these stories dead baby jokes were. I couldn't do know. They were huge when I was in high school. No circle anywhere in high school could you go to where there wasn't dead baby jokes happening.

Yeah. Yeah, and again, this warning skews older, right? Cause while kids are talking about dead baby jokes or whatever, this is for contemporary parents to be careful who they let watch their kids, right? And you know, this expands into the world itself. Right. Because do we trust big business or the government, right?

Various urban legends about secret facilities, tests programs, et cetera. They are absolutely fake. But when you discover the government was running some crazy stuff, suddenly. Much like Mathis's story of a person banging on the, it sounds a little like that could be real. It starts to get, yeah, it starts to get your like instincts. It's like, you know, when somebody's like, hope, you know, see you later. Have a good night. Sleep in this house by yourself.

Hope nobody comes to kill you. And that's it. And then you're like, it's weird because it's like almost of a greater phenomenon of like being told something that that did happen immediately primes you to just believe of different but more intense version of that beyond just folklore, like literally anywhere you like, you know, you hear something, and then here's something somewhat related, and you're willing to just immediately buy into it and just be like, Oh, yeah, that must be

true. And it's the math is effect of me being like that didn't happen. That's not really like, but what if 1% of it buy into it and just be like, oh yeah, that must be true. And it's the math-us effect of me being like, that didn't happen, that's not real. And you're like, but what if 1% of it's real? And I'm like, well, I have to admit. Okay, like, yeah, all right. And at that point, where's my credibility? I'm like, yeah, you're right.

Like, I'm done, the argument's over. I have to admit it. I pair that up with documents from the government and I don't just go, but what if, okay? But I'm saying like, even if you had nothing. Yeah, you just put me in the oven right now. You just shut me in the oven. But it isn't just the government as well.

Again, as times change, and we change who the focus of these stories are, it isn't just government or babysitters, whatever. Now it's corporations are up to some stuff. Like big business, what are they up to? Again, the rat tail on the cone or bugs in food. Musk wanting to put putting chips in people's brains. Yeah. You don't really have to do much. He's really doing it. Yeah. He really wants to do it. To like be like, huh. And because of that and because we know businesses that you can just look

at like a bag of chips, it's bigger bag, less chips inside than it was before. Right? Or microplastics though. Prices increase, we're primed to be suspicious. And so when you hear things about bugs in food or whatever, you're like, damn, the message, the moral of that is really, I should just make stuff at home and be in charge of my food is the moral of those tales. Remember the Wendy's chili finger story? It was- How could I forget?

Oh yes, actually. Stop me from getting chili at Wendy's for years. Yes, I would not. I used to get the chili, the taco salad at Wendy's all the time. Yeah. And then I stopped because this story, here's the thing, it was a real reported story

about a woman who found a finger in her chili. It cost Wendy's an Estimated 21 million dollars in lost business, but here's the thing It was literally a scam The woman got the severed finger from her husband's co-worker and even though the situation was real. She just put it in there She was just like yo, dude, you can go online and find articles where people interview her. She went to jail for this. She got out of jail and then tells the story of like,

yeah, we did this. We were trying to make some money and get attention. Whoa. But it's fake, but it spread so quickly that much like Alex and I never ate chili at Wendy's again. I, you know, I've gone back and had some Wendy's, but I have not had the strength to, I don't even know if they have. Get the chili, yeah. I've gone back and, and, uh, had some Wendy's, but I, I have not had the strength to, I don't even know if they have the chili. Yeah. I've eaten Wendy's chicken sandwiches,

spicy chicken sandwich all the time. We'll not get anything else there. And I guarantee it's because of this moment. I was like, Oh, it's not true too. I know it's not true, but it doesn't matter. Cause I'm just thinking about a finger in chili. Yeah. Yeah. And, and again, that goes back to the idea of you can only be certain of what you're eating when you make it yourself, which is the moral of this. It's like, don't trust those businesses, go make chili on your own. And that's a modern urban legend. And you know, we can do this with countless urban legends that exist. But the point is that much like the legends and myths of yesteryear, these modern myths and legends serve to answer questions, deliver warnings, create societally

accepted standards of behavior, going back to the way stories were in the 50s and 60s or the way they are now, I think it would serve all of us well to remember this when we cover the weird stories or things that we see on this show or the internet, be it strange alien tales or big feet encounters or creepy dark websites. Yeah, it may be real. It may not be real. But for this show, the being real isn't the point at all.

It's the story. It's the telling it. It's the mythos behind it. That's what we're here to cover. So even if I'm poo pooing a thing, it doesn't mean I don't enjoy it. Oh, yeah. It just means I don't necessarily believe it's real. But that's, I think the fun is it doesn't need to be real. It's a really cool look at society and who we are as a whole. And that's what the books are about. That's what this episode's about. It's just the

idea of doesn't matter whether it's real or not. It's fun. Yeah, have fun with it. Be okay with it. Even if you don't believe the aliens or the paranormal ghost or the online things, just like just have fun with it. It's your culture. It's your culture. Yeah, exactly. It's not about being like, it's fake. Like how stupid are you?

Of course, it's fucking fake, but it's about it's like a game. You're playing with everybody who's ever been alive in your country. Yeah, it's like a fucking fucking I think it's like a It's like a flash mob that lasts 300 years. Yeah, I saw a suggestion on reddit a few weeks ago I think maybe doing like creepy a creepypasta episode every once in a while might be fun way to also be super fun Yeah, I would love to do we can just do creepypasta I hesitate to just read creepypastas as an episode But yeah, there's definitely,

we've definitely flirted with basically doing that a couple of times. Anyway, that seems like a solid Alex deep dive episode of here's the creepy pasta because we did some that are websites that are creepy pastas. You'll see what you'll see. I will. You'll see what is weird about next week's episode very soon. Yeah. I knew, let's say this.

I knew this episode was coming this week when I decided what I'm doing next week. Oh I'm excited. All right. Thank you, Jesse for guiding along this folklore path We're off to go do a mini soda over at patreon.com slash illuminati pod again Get your live tickets now while you can to illuminati pod dot FM link is if you dare if you dare Yeah, if you dare to have a good time 18 plus I think this babies if you dare shit head with tiny boo-boo babies We'll try to have more membership coins cuz those things sold so fast last time. Yeah, make sure you there if you remember If you got the balls you got the Boston Balls to go to Chicago wall

All right. Thank you guys so much. We'll see you next week. Goodbye boy, bye anyway Alright, thank you guys so much, we'll see you next week, goodbye! Bye! Bye. Anyway, me and my wife were sitting outside indulging on our porch one night, enjoying ourselves. I needed to go to the bathroom, so I stepped back inside and after a few moments I hear my wife go, Holy shit, get out of here! So I quickly dash back outside, she's looking up at the sky in the fall. I look up too and there's a perfect line of dozen lights traveling across the sky. So Thanks for watching! you