Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 310: Weird and Wild LA w/ Abby Denton

Episode Date: August 10, 2025

Abby joins us this week as we take a look into some of the the weirdest parts of LA, paranormal and human. MERCH - http://www.theyetee.com/collections/chilluminati Thank you to - ZocDoc - http://www.zocdoc.com/chill HeroForge http://www.heroforge.com promo code: Chill All you lovely people at Patreon! HTTP://PATREON.COM/CHILLUMINATIPOD Abby Denton!: https://x.com/mizabitha?lang=en https://www.hollywoodfringe.org/projects/10813 Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - http://www.youtube.com/user/superbeardbros Editor - DeanCutty http://www.twitter.com/deancutty Show art by - https://twitter.com/JetpackBraggin http://www.instagram.com/studio_melectro SOURCES: https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/nhhc/about-us/leadership/director/directors-corner/h-grams/h-gram-010/h-010-6.html https://sfmuseum.org/hist9/aaf2.html https://www.militarymuseum.org/BattleofLA.html https://www.latimes.com/visuals/framework/la-me-fw-archives-1942-battle-la-20170221-story.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Palmdale

Hello, everybody and welcome back to the Chaluminati podcast, episode 310, as always, I am one of your host, Mike Martin, today joined by one of the usual two hosts that are with me. I'd hear Alex Fossiani. That's right. Jesse decided that in the midst of L.A. month that he would leave the entire country. So he has done that. And so we have put a pin in our Manson

till next week. And in Jesse's place today, graciously, as a good friend of mine, she's a stand-up comedian, writer, and raconteur based out of Los Angeles, California, which is, of course, what this month is all about. She's got a great podcast.

sitcom audio thing that she did a while ago called Cyber Cafe. There's the Blade of Cutie Pen. She's been sort of like inundating herself in like game dev and graphics last year. I think it was last year. We saw her in the Los Angeles Hollywood French Festival doing her show My Brother the Car. And now in about what a week? Yeah. Yeah, we're going to see her in Edinburgh, Scotland, in the real big fringe festival with a show, my favorite loser.

The one that bankrupts you. Yeah, the one that bankrupts you. you when you fly out and nobody goes to see a show. Abby Denton is here. Hello, it's an honor to be here. It's an honor to be here. I didn't know that so many of your co-hosts were leaving the country. I'm glad to join that cohort. You're about to head like literally tomorrow to do this show, right? Well, it, I thought it was tomorrow. It turns out my flight is Friday. So I just, I have a day where I have nothing scheduled. Nothing to do with my life. Yeah. Yeah. I was a little worried, you can be like, actually, it's in three hours. So if we can just get this done,

that was my fear. I would love to just hop in and out while I'm doing TSA stuff. Just yeah, yeah, yeah, that's how they do it today anyway. I think they shoot you if you turn on a camera in there. Yeah, I saw, I saw my brother the car at LA Fringe. I thought it was, I thought it was very funny. And it was, uh, I went with my friend who had just kind of came cold to see you and had a great time. Uh, and, uh, uh, uh, Hilda, who, uh, uh, is a, uh, uh, is a are like Bogwich Communications what a job person. I don't know what she is.

I don't know what she is. She's our good friend. She's great. That's what Hilda is. She does a bunch of great shit. She's going to go see it because she's in Edinburgh. So you should too. It's called my British. No, no, no, this one's my favorite loser. Yeah, my favorite loser. It's at the space in theater three at the Surgeons Hall, which is usually a medical college that they repurpose for theater stuff as I understand it during the fringe. So

well i feel like it's going to be i think it's going to be really cool and i think there's a lot of people in scotland who listen to this show shout us to them and uh if you're there go just go give it a look why not you're you know you're going to see at least two or three shows while you're while you're while it's going on so you might as well tickets are cheap it's in the evening it's it's yeah where uh where can they get tickets oh uh the space uk dot com which i always get that wrong because i always think it's the space that code is it's the space you K.com has a whole ticket website there. Just find the entry for my show.

Abby Denton, my brother, or they, sorry, I keep saying last year's show. Abby Denton, colon, my favorite loser. But, you know, we made all the marketing and then we found out it sounded like I'm a loser, but I'm not. You're just talking about your favorite one. Yeah, his name is Felix Carvajal. He was a mailman. He's great.

I left out of my intro, and I shouldn't have left this out, that you're like a wizard of Digimon. I feel like it's not correct to welcome you on to the show without at least mentioning Digimon right at the top. That's crazy because I consider Alex and Kelly like wizards of Pokemon and now I've got a wizard of each the major mons. Well, we actually, we keep trying to schedule a summit so that we can finally bring peace to the two communities.

But Gandalf to Gray and right to gas the brown. They were warring big time in the 90s when I was a kid. We were worrying big time in the 90s. We have comprehensively finished that war long ago. All right. Good. Yeah. Aggressions have cool just like the cryptosings. in the bloods.

We now just have barbecues and just kind of, ah, uh, no, but, uh, it's really great to have you on the show.

And when we, uh, when we, when we, when we have somebody on for the first time, especially, uh, we always ask the same question,

which is kind of like, Jesse, I would say is the scully of the show. Math is absolutely the molder of the show. And I am Tony Shalub from Galaxy Quest, who I just enjoy what's happening. I don't really care about. I'm just kind of...

I'm from a postmodernist. Saying that with a blunt in your hand is just superb because wasn't that like they cut a scene establishing that he's high as a kite through that whole movie. That's the kind of quality video content you get at the $15 tier at patreon.com slash shulminati pod. That's the three, that's the three energies that make up our show. And so which one do you think? What camp do you think we're on the spectrum are you? You know, in the spectrum of supernatural belief, I guess, uh, I'm,

I'm Sam Rockwell in Galaxy Quest, where I mainly don't want to die. I don't want to believe in any of these things. But if it's, if it's dark and I'm alone, I suddenly find that I do. I only believe in life after death in the sense of hell. I find heaven stretches. Gruduity a little. It feels like it wouldn't be that good. Like the way that you usually see it, it feels like it would be kind of like not as fun as, like, you know, it's like gates.

There's like clouds. And if it's heaven from the Bible, you spend eternity praising and singing about God. That is what it is described as. Is it just an eternity of singing and praising God? That sounds like hell to me. I've heard it very, very comprehensively, very persuasively argued that it's the difference between black churches and white churches. Like, you actually enjoy being at black church, apparently.

It's completely alien to me. I can't imagine such a thing. I've never done it. Yeah, but I, but I have. have been to a lot of terrifying Catholic ceremonies. Yeah. I don't know. It seems pretty chill compared to some of the other churches in some ways,

but in other ways, I think we're the worst. No, but so here's what's up. The other question that we always ask is, and this one always elicit some kind of interesting result, is like, have you ever encountered anything that might appear on our show,

like an alien site or something you can't explain? or is there like some story in your family that's like the one that always gets told at Easter that's like the one about grandma when she like almost fell down because she saw a shadow or something? I slept on on a mattress on my parents' bedroom floor for six months at age 11 because I saw a ghost on New Year's Eve, which with the benefit of hindsight I understand was almost certainly just because I stayed up for, you know, however, 23 consecutive hours. But it looked in off. He had like Wolverine Clause. Oh, and like fish eyes. He looked kind of like the, uh, the way they do ghosts in the video game, Indiana Jones in the fate

of Atlantis. And the fact that I can identify, oh, it looks like that thing is another mark in the, that was my subconscious talking. And the time kind of, the timeline kind of like matches up on when that game was out too, right? Just about. I'm trying to look at a picture of these things. Well, that makes me sound older than I even am. And even older than I pretend to be for the purposes of Hollywood casting. I am 37 years old.

That's all I have to say in response. I am 56 years old. Oh, wow. Doubled up. Wow. Taya Leone apparently claims she's older than she is just so everyone's always like, you look great. Just a great bit.

That's very funny to like, a lot of times. Yeah. Okay, so you saw the ghost. What did you? What, like, break it down. Like, what happened? Like, where were you?

How did you see it? I was just lying down asleep in, in the room that I shared with my sister. And I saw a ghost. And I love, my sister, three years younger than me, fine with it. Because she didn't see it. And she was fully aware that I was, I was nuts. Both conscious at the time. I've blocked out a lot of my childhood.

but I feel like it must have lasted so long just because I couldn't be bothered to move my mattress back in my parents' room. It's kind of nice of a vibe in a way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My parents were very happy about it, very tense. I don't know why.

Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, weird. So as I explained before the show started, it is L.A. month here on the show. And we've talked a little bit about that we have secret plans in order. You know, there's things going on behind the scenes that we're planning. You know, there's every little secret is real. There's clues everywhere. But all I want to do today is I just

want to put another invitation out there to people listening. If you're from Los Angeles or you have been to Los Angeles or you want to be on an episode of Chaluminati, go on to our subreddit at R slash Chuluminati pod and go to the top of the page. Look at the pinned post that's asking for reader stories for Los Angeles. And we're going to have some special guests on in just a couple weeks. And they're going to read some of those stories aloud for everyone. And we're looking for personal stories. Even if you just live in Los Angeles and have seen a ghost, that is a story in Los Angeles. I just want to know basically what neighborhood you lived in and what ghost it is. Or if there is any sort of local crime that's famous or some time when a

Big dumpster exploded and you'll never forget it. I just want it to be a texture and flavor of the city of Los Angeles. It doesn't even necessarily have to be like I saw a ghost with Wolverine Clause that terrorized me on New Year's Eve. It can be. It can be lower stakes. I just want a nice big grouping of people from all different backgrounds to roll up and drop some stories on me.

So please head to R slash Tulumatipod and drop some stories. I would take a second here also to promote our show in Chicago on November 1st. However, we sold it out. So if you missed out on that, your only option is to scalp. And man, I'm sure they're going to sell our tickets at $500 apiece. Actually, you know what? Maybe that's just a backdoor another ad for R slash Chulminati Pod because if you end up with a ticket that you can't use, I'm sure that somebody will be there who will snap it up. So there you go.

R slash Chulminati Pod. It's the cheese. Thank you so much to today's sponsor, Zoc Doc. Remember that doctor's appointment you were supposed to be making like a while ago, the one that you meant to book, but got sidetracked and completely forgot about until right now, actually. Yeah, you know, the dentist appointment for your biannual cleaning. Well, why not book today? Zoc Doc makes it easy to find the right doctor right now, and it's all online. You'll probably be able to book an appointment before the end of this ad.

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I've been using it since before we worked with them. So stop putting off those doctor appointments and go to Zoc-D-O-C-com. So-Chill to find instantly book a top-rated doctor today. That's Z-O-C-D-O-C-C-com slash chill. Zock.com slash chill. Thank you again to Zock-D-D-T for sponsoring today's episode. As Alex said earlier, this is going to be an episode about L.A. Now, we've done a few shows out in L.A.

And anytime we go to a city, I try to do a topic that's based around that city. And we've done plenty of them in L.A. And so I have plenty of topics to kind of pull from. But as I usually do, I also did some more research on some of these topics to see if there's any more information that I could pull through. And obviously led me to some interesting rabbit holes that led to, like, smaller topics. This is going to be all basically paranormal stuff. I don't have any true crime stuff on here really to be talking about.

And we're going to be starting at the very beginning with my favorite goddamn thing in the world, aliens, obviously. But I've been to L.A. a bunch of times now you live there. So I think, like, Los Angeles is one of the, like, only places where I feel like it's, like, its own background, character in and of itself. Any story told in L.A. kind of has its own tone to it. It's a weird place to live for sure. We both, me and Abby both live there. It's a weird place to live. I was born and raised.

How would you, like, what do you mean? Being like a native to L.A., what do you mean it's weird place to live? Like, how do you perceive it as weird having originated from there? Is it just a vibe? So it's like on the short list, right, of like the big cities, right? That's how I, at least in my American-centric life experience, it seems to be one of the bigger cities on the planet. But I've been to a lot of big cities on the planet.

And, like, L.A. has a totally different way of working and functioning. And the flow of it is very different. And the lifestyle of living in L.A. is very different. And it's just generally, like, physically bigger. Yeah, it's huge than a lot of the other cities that are like the big cities. And so it just kind of has a weird pattern. Like, it didn't grow around a civic center. It's like a bunch of roads that used to be train tracks that people just, like, crisscrossed together. and kept building houses in between. And it's just so many that we were like, yes, this is the kingdom now. And so to me, that's the thing. And I, you know, I live in Culver City, which is like an ancient Los Angeles neighborhood. And I don't, if you don't want to say where you live, you don't have to. But I feel like where you live and where I live, though they are close together, are very different textures of Los Angeles, even though they're very close. For sure, for sure. I'm in K-town, which has apparently changed a lot, even just in the last 20 years, my boy abuse was telling me, you used to go up Wilshire

sort of on your, in your Sunday best. And now you go up Wilshire in your Sunday best, like if you want to be robbed and commit some kind of insurance fraud scam. Yeah. Yeah, it has buildings. It's like one of the rare parts that has like tall buildings and streets where you walk. There's so many of those like those old light up signs that no one ever lights up that are all falling to pieces. I live down the street from, well, not down the street. I live over a mile in a direction that I won't specify from the Gaylord Arms, which is just a big smile every time I see it. And I was watching Moonlighting, which is big L.A. show a couple of months ago. And Alice Beasley, whose voice you will recognize if you look her up,

who's the secretary on that show she gets kidnapped in front of her home. And her apartment was in the gaylord arms. And so I got to say, that's my team where someone's getting abducted. Good for her. I go eat there all the time at the bounty. You ever gone there? Ooh, is that good? It's like very cheap. You go in there, it looks like a set from Colombo. It's themed after, like, if you were a 1960s textbook about, like, British piracy and, and, like, C, history.

I respect it. And you can, the drinks are cheap and there's stakes. And it's pretty, I don't know, it's an LA place. You know, you've sold me. You've sold me. My roommate used to go there all the time. I'm sorry. I was just talking about a steakhouse no one will go to.

No, you should go on. Like, honestly, like, it's worth visiting as a tourist even. I think it's, I think it's, I think it's hope, just hope. It's right next to the Brown Derby Plaza, which used to be a restaurant in the shape of a derby hat. And now it's just a plate. Like, it makes me so mad every time I walk past. It's just a strip mall now. There's a big Filipino restaurant.

To taunt us. Ooh. I didn't really click with me until I visited L.A., like how sprawling and, like, enormous Los Angeles is by necessity kind of because it's on a desert but also like you said as the city grew with train tracks almost how similarly

Boston is a spaghetti street town because it was all colonist roads that were just then turned into streets that make no goddamn sense yeah it's similar in that way and it does have a flavor to it and in that like the sky in my mind is like its own participatory

character here it's where I had my first UFO fucking sighting was in California which was like weird still I still think about it and it's just in in that UFO citing it's not the only one that have this I get tons of stories now about people who see stuff over out in LA not only just through the Reddit but emails people who email the stories if you're comfortable put them on the Reddit that would be fantastic by the way our slash Chulamonati pod it's a pinned post right at the top from Hilda go find it exactly but even when I'm there hanging out with you dude like in a way

you know to speak it in the character's terms when the city gets nervous, right? The searchlights hit the sky looking for people across the street. And I've heard helicopters whirring out there almost every time I'm out there. Have you all talked about the helicopters out here? This is one of my favorite, the factoid means it's not true. My favorite strange trivia, which is there's a book about architecture and like crime and the shape of these things that I feel like I need to remember the name of it. But it talks about how L.A. and a couple of cities that are built almost exclusively on grids see a lot more use of helicopters by police because it's so much easier to identify where you are instead of being

like, oh, it's three blocks over from the weird windy street. That makes a lot of sense. That actually makes a whole lot of scenes. I never would have thought of that. It's, is it Mike Davis? Is it that book? What's it called? It's like a black cover yellow text, I think. It's not city of courts. It could be. I don't think it's, I don't think that book is L.A. Centric, although there are a lot of L.A. stories. They talk about the storm tunnel drill thieves, which I'd love to hear if you have a theory about the drill thieves downtown this month.

Oh my gosh. I just, I love hearing stories like that, but I never like, I never like get into them and like dig in. I always want to like, I feel like it's like a comic book that comes out. Like I love like finding out the fucking the,

like the one, remember the one where they went in the roof of the wine shop and took all the expensive wines? Wow. Like they did a. saw like like a fucking like wild coyote yeah came in the top yeah I don't know there's I just love that type it's romantic yeah yeah yeah coyotes are romantic that's that's what I've found living in Los Angeles the most I think the clearest and most obvious story that

you may have even heard of is obviously the battle of Los Angeles which is I feel like L.A. like necessary lore if you're into the alien sphere I guess at the very least are you familiar with it Abby I'm not tell me more. There was a movie with this title, but it's not, I assume. It's so poorly ripped off of, like, I don't know what they were capitalizing on, totally unrelated, almost other than aliens in Los Angeles. Yeah, it's it. I'll set the scene for you then. It's the middle of the night on February 25th, 1942.

One day after the Imperial Japanese submarine I-17 surfaced off of Elwood west of Santa Barbara and through a couple dozen shells toward oil facilities. The physical damage up there was basically minor by the end of it all, but the psychological effect on the city wasn't, and people knew the West Coast wasn't off limits anymore after this attack. The Navy's own historical summary clocks Elwood on February 23rd with quote unquote minor damage and most reconstructions treated as the primer for what followed. Warnings were already in the air before the guns started firing for this event as well. Naval intelligence circulated a notice on the evening of the 24th that an attack could be expected within about 10 hours. An alert went up at 7.18 p.m. and then got lifted at 10.23 p.m. And after midnight, the phone lines and spotter reports started up again. Around 2 in the morning, Army radar sites were painting a contact, roughly 120 miles offshore, moving toward L.A.

And at 2.25 a.m. the siren sounded and the blackout snapped on. The fighters of the 4th Interceptor Command stayed on alert but didn't launch. And the 37th Coast Artillery Brigade started firing at 3.16 a.m. And the barrage ran its fits until 4.14 a.m. And the all clear didn't sound until 7.21 a.m. The tally of shells were somewhere around. Some say it was around 1400. Some say it was 1400 exactly.

it depends on the source that you're reading. The daylight tally landed in a different place entirely, though. There was no enemy wreckage from what they were firing at, no down planes, just shrapnel scored roofs, blown out windows, and five indirect deaths on the ground, three from car crashes during the blackout and two from heart attacks caused by the chaos of everything that just kind of happened in the moment. One detail from the official histories marks the point where noises became the story.

So, like, at 306 a.m., observers reported a balloon carrying a red flare over Santa Monica. Four batteries opened up, and the rest of the city followed suit. And if you're looking for, like, something that triggers this timeline. This is kind of like it. This is what the kind of solidifies this legend. Now, what came next is the part that kept the legend really alive. By midday, you had clashing explanations out of Washington. Secretary of the Navy Frank Knox told reporters it had been a false along.

courtesy of just jittery nerves on behalf of the military. The war department hedged that and Henry Stimson even floated the possibility of a formation of planes over the city, somewhere up to 15, maybe even commercial aircraft flown by enemy agents just to so panic. That was another one. It was a face saving theory, I think, without really any wreckage behind it to prove it. I mean, if there were 15 planes and you were firing 1,400 rounds at them over the course of X number of hours, you would expect to have something.

But once you kind of put that kind of. like split on the record there's two different stories now the story can kind of have room to build its own mystery around it and local editorials complained about mysterious reticence quote unquote and a congressman from california called for an investigation the next day now there's a photograph i'm going to link you the photograph here such a such a dramatic and interesting photograph this is one of my sources that this is the um it's the military museum site is one of my sources for this you can click that the the photograph is right up front this is basically the photograph everyone knows the like the best and what we're going to say

Alex sorry oh yeah I don't know how centered this is around San Pedro where where I grew up yeah which is like in the harbor but where we went that one time when you came over Mathis when we like I was thinking about what I'm doing this like kind of cliff that that that area they do a reenactment of this like all the time and it looks exactly like this picture like other other than of course the like clear in like item in the middle of all the spotlights that are you know focusing like kind of converging onto it like they don't usually put something up there if you look abby if you like you zoom in on the thing it's like they're all pointing at you can almost maybe see some sort of weird you really kind of want like a saucer

somewhere in there with like a pointy top hard to to tell because of what they did and that's kind of the next part of the story is that uh like the la times ran this story with this picture and this picture is what cemented this forever in the lore of L.A. They ran a tight convergent. The photo is a tight convergence of beams with a bright core that looked something

pinned in the lights. The paper later showed the flatter under-exposed version and explained the 1940s darkroom touch-up, whitening and widening beams for reproduction that amped up the drama. And that was the problem. The photo you're seeing here is actually not the original photo.

It's their touch-up and basically bringing out the exposure to brighten up the beams and stuff. And that's why there was so much problems. So does the original have like a little guy in there too? A little alien waving his hands at us through the windows? Let me get you a link to the original battle of LA. A little locky to with a fishing line sitting in a cloud. Yeah, this is from aim, airminded.org. Shout out to you guys. And you're going to have the supposedly non-touched up one right there, which is way darker, but it's still all focused on something. You can see the tracer fire more readily in the non-touched-up version of the photo.

It's less clearly an object, at least. Yeah, yeah. And it's clearly mirrored or something. And I don't even see a landscape in it compared to the other one. Yeah. But it does look very similar, you know? Yeah. But that's the issue is already, right?

Like the fact that they touched it up immediately muddied the waters. Like I said, the paper later showed the flatter more under exposed version and explained why they touched it up, that basically amped up the drama. But the scene was real. The punch was also helped along. That's why the image still functions kind of like a Rorschach test for people.

It shows a true night with enhanced contrast and people pour certainty into that middle spot where all the lights converge and they see what they think they want to see because it does, you look hard enough in the touched up version, really, you can kind of maybe see

a saucer shape in there. And that's enough for people to be like, that's what it is. is where it could be an artifact of how they enhance the photo in the in the thing that you put in the thing that you sent if you scroll down it has like two examples yeah and it shows the one there's one with like a bunch of spotlights in the harbor that's like not from that day but there's like a lot of beams that are like converging and they don't produce any sort of object like you know what I mean like where the convergence points are you don't see like little UFOs but then you scroll down a

little more there's a thing of that's like also from the same time where it's just some spotlights shooting up, which is another thing you see in LA all the time because there's always some kind of premiere or used car lot going on. And the spotlights shine straight up into the air in this photo and they're shooting, they're hitting a cloud. And the cloud is like producing in a regular shape because it's not a fully illuminated cloud. It's just a weird shape that you're seeing sort of like projected on the cloud like a flashlight that's only illuminating some of the cloud. So it makes it look kind of weird. So maybe it could be that, but what looks like, it still looks more like a thing in the,

in the original photo to me. Yeah. I mean, and it could be the original explanation as well. Maybe they were just had a happy trigger finger got really nervous and it was like they shot at nothing. But it does look like there's something there in this that the other photos don't really seem like there's anything there like Alex is saying. And as time is gone and as this is kind of where my newer research has kind of popped in is

like things, the more documents that have come out, haven't really gotten any weirder they've just kind of gotten more ordinary uh there was a 1949 right up in the coast are the coast artillery associations that said a weather balloon sent up around one in the morning was what quote unquote started all the shooting and once the guns were hot imagination just supplied targets in their minds and they literally started firing away own goal it's not even like a japanese balloon no it's just a it's our it's a weather balloon own goal again yeah i'm so glad it's not even there wasn't even a guy. It was just...

They just shot at a weather balloon. And this is after Roswell. And so the weather balloon, excuse was used two years prior in 1947 for Roswell, which we did in depth. And it definitely wasn't a weather balloon at the very least. In 1983, the Office of Air Force history called the episode what it looked like in hindsight, war nerves triggered by a lost weather balloon and made louder by shells and flares. And after the war, Japan said it flew no aircraft over.

over Los Angeles that night, which is kind of exactly what Dawn had already told people when they saw there was nothing on the ground lit by the sunlight that they shot at. So you kind of like stack all that up and you just get a, so at least presented a very clean story. Elwood where it takes place, the radar contact offshore,

the flare on a balloon over Santa Monica, hours or hour or two of gunfire, and then five accidental deaths with no enemy wreckage. It's hard to say it was a U.S. The only evidence I would say of it being something weird is the radar contact, but I don't know how easy it is to pick up a weather balloon on radar, yeah. Yeah, a weather balloon seems like it would still be pretty small, right? Like, I don't know how big weather balloon is. Right.

When we're talking about a weather balloon from Roswell. Weather balloons are pretty fucking huge. I look, this is not the kind of research. Usually I feel bad if I don't do enough research before a podcast. Don't do any research. And this is a thing that I'm ashamed to not know, but this is also something that I feel Like, I shouldn't be expected to research before a podcast. Right.

Well, so what is a weather balloon? Weather balloon. Oh, so, yeah, that's what they use. They send, like, literally the government just sends out in, and they just kind of takes in data, I assume. It's, like, sensors on it. It goes up. It's light. It can, it's, like, cheap for what it can do and where it can be.

It's how, like, they know where I'm assuming, like, the jet streams are in the air and, like, where weather, like, hot air is moving and stuff. Okay. And so, depending on where in the atmosphere you want it is determines the size of it. So the biggest they get is around 27 feet, like, tall to a human. It's like four times your size. It's very, very big. Perfect, like, thing that is real that could be a UFO. You know what I mean?

Exactly. Yeah. Because I, you know, I wish I could have, you know, again, I wish I could have done more research because my father was in the FBI. And I would have liked to ask him for more, more insight on, like, Roswell and what, you know, what they know about on the inside because oh man you know he he has like full clearance by my uncle

who works at the FBI but he we don't talk much anymore he's estranged for my mother because I'm so sorry to take so long to get to the punchline because my mother saw him well we we thought we saw him kissing another woman and their marriage never recovered but he

maintained to the last that what he was kissing was in fact a weather balloon god damn it somehow we doubted him good night everybody it's all I can contribute I apologize god damn you

I was so invested I was like oh shit I'm sorry honestly though I think it's good that you asked what a weather balloon is because I feel like that is one of those questions that you just kind of never like ask yeah people like just what's swamp gas what's what's a weather balloon right yeah

which we have into detail and learned about swamp guests many a time. Yeah. What's one thing? Because I love that guy. Is he a superhero? Is he a guy or is he a thing? He's the avatar of the green. He thought he was a guy for a long time and then he discovered that he was actually just

a copy that and the guy was long dead and he just had his memories. Memories and he was just a bunch of slop trying to be a human in the swamp and he fell in love. I think it was very, very kind of Abby Arcane to still fall for him. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, She's connected to the dark.

And so it's, you know, there's a lot going on, but, you know, out there. I really wish they never canceled that show. Shout out to Derek Mears. Oh, yeah, yeah. Not nearly as much swamp thing in it as I would have liked to see. But like, I understand every shot of that suit would have been a million dollars. Yeah. Then they said four, they said, we didn't say 14 million.

We said 14 million. And that's why the show got canceled. Really? That's like literally what happened. Yeah. Oh, Jesus. That's fuck wild. That's ridiculous.

Oh, my God. I need to try the opposite with my salary. What are these days? Yeah. I still have that. It's not, there's no punchline, no joke, but you did remind me when you're saying your dad was in the FBI that I did. I still have that thing that was given at that live show last year.

Oh, yeah. Secretly. And he left. Yeah. I've never done anything with it. We talked about it briefly. No, we talked about it off camera, but never on camera because we didn't know what to do. I don't really.

Well, yeah. Well, we don't know what it is, you know, but. We were given. a gentleman came up to me that was supposedly Air Force or something he wore he had an Air Force hat on or whatever and I think he talked to Jesse and I remember talking to him too yeah he walked up to me and said are you

I think he said you're you Mike or Mathis I couldn't remember which one I was like yeah what's up and I you know he reached out to shake my hand in like a fucking spy movie he hands me a piece of paper as I look down to read it and I look back up he's gone I never got his name he just laughed he did and there's just like

don't say what it says don't say what it says an address with a very specific time reference that has yielded interesting results in my research over the course of a year that I don't really know anything to do with it's just very strange and I don't know

yeah it's very very weird it's very very weird so but there's no I guess the punchline is he was my dad that guy was Abby's dad. Yeah, that would be so good if it was Abby's dad. Well, what?

How, how, um, how inflatable did his date look? Uh, not very. And I'd only go up to the lower atmosphere. He just, he handed you the note and just retreated to the stratosphere. Dude, I looked and I didn't even see the back of his head. He was just gone. And that rule. I was just like, what the fuck?

What? I saw the same guy. He also, like, said something to me like, like, I'm going to give Mathis something. You know, like, and I think Jesse said, He said something similar to him. Just super, super crazy. Yeah, very weird. That's not the first time that's even happening.

So do you feel you look less trustworthy? Me? That only Mike could get the notes. If I do. It's actually like opposite. I'm crazy enough where no one would believe me. If I do look less trustworthy, then why do all the crazy people come up and talk to me in the bars?

Why is it always me? You know, I feel like there is something about me that is approach, but it might be my garish, my garish dress and my friendly Lebowski-esque. appearance but I don't know I but but I like I'll be sitting I I dead ass was sitting down at dinner one time in a restaurant inside the restaurant not even like on the patio and a man came in from off the street sat next to me just because there happened to me one open seat next to me put his arm around me and like started eating my food and we were like in dude I'd be so I'd be freaking out I'd be like what's happening right I just I just couldn't believe I just couldn't

believe my eyes like a mate coincidentally the bartender was like my neighbor and he was like on this man but it was uh and like just like secured him and asked him to leave but it was like some crazy it was like some crazy shit and he was like asked me questions about what it was like in japan and like all this stuff that i didn't know you know and uh what is it like in japan i don't know i don't know it's i hear it's humid i hear it's quite humid but you can't go yeah It's already too humid here. I'm now obsessed with the idea. Like, I go to the bathroom and, like, some smooth talker just, like, takes my seat,

just talking to my date or something. And I walk out and I'm like, who am I? Yeah. That's literally, that's literally what exactly what happens. Somebody got up for like five seconds and a man walks in off the street and sits down, takes a bite of my freaking short ribs hand. Not even fries. Oh, geez.

Yeah. Fight that man. I don't, I'm glad I don't kind of have that aura. I think he wanted me. Prorate your salmon. I think he wanted me to abandon it. I think he wanted me to like, you know, he wanted the whole sandwich. Yeah.

Back to aliens? Yeah, back to aliens. I don't know. I don't know. Before we wrap up on the Battle of L.A., the only other thing that points to maybe something not human is a lot of just secondary witness accounts that have as bowed as much weight as anything else here. A lot of stories that came way after the event happened itself, that kind of elaborate

on these things that are not super detailed. They're not, there's like little newspaper clippings of just like a few quotes here and here and there that aren't worth super jumping into. But I did want to compare it to another thing that happened 14 years later in L.A. That shows human kind of interference

that is a little bit more of a obvious human fuck up. Or not fuck up, but there was more evidence of a human target that they were firing at. 14 years later, L.A. sky would light up again with ordinance. But this time, everything that fell was our own shit. Palmdale is the flip side of what I would call the battle of L.A.

And it's worse in a way because everything that fell was ours. Did you say Palmdale? Palmdale. Palmdale. Yeah. All right. The run, why, is that not part of L.A.? No, it is.

It is. Okay, okay, okay. I'm just like, so this happened in Palmdale, California, is what you're saying? Yes, yes, in 1956. It's pretty, it's like on the other side of the forest, north. Gotcha. Like, if you know where, like, Lancaster, is, that's Palmdale. Sure.

The runaway began at Point Mugu just before noon. That's how you say it, I hope, right? Mugoo, yeah. On August 16th, 1956, a high visibility red Grumman F6F 5K Hellcat target drone lifted off at 1134 in the morning for a routine test over the Pacific Ocean. Controllers lost command shortly after takeoff and the drone drifted into a climbing turn toward the basin and with no Navy chase available, Oxnard Air Force Base scrambled to Northrop F-89 D Scorpions from the 437th Fighter Interceptor Squadron, 1st Lieutenant Hans

Einstein with radar observer, 1st Lieutenant C.D. Murray and 1st Lieutenant Richard Hurleman with 1st Lieutenant Walter Hale. They ran south and afterburner intercepted the slow unmanned Hellcat around 30,000 feet northeast of L.A. The red drone arched over Santa Paula, then Fillmore and Fraser Park, trending for the western Antelope Valley. The goal was to wait for open country before shooting. Each scorpion carried these like two and a half inch mark four they called Mighty Mouse

folding thin rockets controlled by the new Hughes E6 fire control system. There is a few listeners out here who are getting rock hard listening and we say all these specs. Oh my God, I was, I had a Titanic thing when I was in like sixth grade.

I just. Exactly. Same thing. Yeah. Oh, nice. Grisberg early. Yeah. And the fire.

They also had an A&A, AP, 40 radar, a combination designed to, like, ripple unguided rockets at bomber formations. In automatic mode, the system offered tail chase and 90 degree beam shots, quote unquote, beam shots. The drone's constant beam shots, uh, the drone's constant turning fouled the whole setup, though. The automatic firing failed. The retrofits had also replaced the jets optical sites. So once the crew switched to manual fire, they had no more obstacle sites to fucking use to fire at this thing.

so they were just firing like blindly unguided rockets by feel they were firing unguided rockets how many people were living here at the time palm dale is not a like unpopulated place yeah well of course we'll keep going here you'll see uh across three attack runs they fired by vibes 208 rockets without visibly striking the drone one time what the fuck they eventually ran low on fuel, so they had to turn back, and the Hellcat, fuel starved, began spiraling down and crashed eight miles east of Palmdale Regional Airport, severing Southern California Edison lines along an unpaved stretch of Avenue P before breaking apart in the sand. Oh, my God.

The rockets did the damage. The intercept couldn't. The first Salvos lit about, the first salvos lit about 150 acres northeast of Castaic above of the Old Ridge route near Bear Banquit Canyon. A second wave reached the ground near Newell, Newhall and, God, Placerita Canyon, where impacts were seen bouncing along the roadside, starting new spot fires, and setting Indian oil company sumps ablaze and pushing flames to within roughly 300 feet of the Bermite powder explosive plant.

Oh my God. That could have been horrific. I'm saying it's one of those situations where it's like okay so you got this new system in instead of keeping a redundant older system you just removed it

so now when the system fails they just defyre rockets by feel wherever they feel like they need to shoot them yeah exactly at the explosives factory it wouldn't even stop there

because other rockets started fires near Soledad Canyon and Mount Gleason that burned more than 350 acres holy shit Yes, this is a huge disaster that happened. When the final shots went out facing Palmdale,

fragments and duds fell across the town. Residents on 3rd and 4th Street east reported shrapnel tearing through front rooms and garages. A motorist on State Route 138 had a tire shredded and holes punched clean through the bodywork. Two workers in Placerita Canyon had just stepped away from the utility truck when a rocket hit and destroyed it. It took about 500 firefighters two days to corral roughly 1,000 acres of brush fire started by this. How is this not like the biggest fuck up in like military? How do we not know about this? Like how does not everyone know about this?

It's not the biggest. And it's also like this part is probably another big reason. Miraculously, nobody got killed. Nobody died. Only 15 of the 208 rockets were later recovered undettonated. 108. Yes. Only 15 didn't detonate, too.

I think that no casualty thing means this is actually the best military screw-up. It's true. Yeah. It's true. Killer. And like the Battle of L.A., like headlines in retrospectives over time have dubbed this the Battle of Palmdale. That's fucking hilarious.

I couldn't stay in the movie Red Dawn, but I think it would be a significantly more entertaining movie if it was this scenario where they're just like, The Russians invaded. They took over the school. We got to hide in the woods and ignore the newspaper. It's just a runaway unmanned drone. We have to take cover in the California poppy reserves. Head to Antelope Valley. Could this be like a naked gun kind of style movie?

Yeah. Like it's a runaway thing and nobody can stop it. Whoever decided to call it the Battle of Palmdale is such a fucker. Such a like fucking asshole. He hated Palmdale. Yeah. Oh, the Battle of Palmdale. Shot a bunch of Missed.

and started fires the brave men and women of Bob Dale ladies and gentlemen I was reading that shit dude I could not believe it was like holy shit there's so much damage why did nobody talk oh nobody died and that's why nobody talked about it it's crazy though like it's just nuts but this is another fuckaboard there's just fucking there's evidence everywhere of them fucking up everywhere now they say a transmitter failure on the ground or a receiver fall aboard the drone has been cited as the probable cause why the drone just took off the rest became a case study in where like early Cold War intercept doctrine

broke down over populated terrain they literally use us an example of like okay if they attack us over a city we can't do what we were going to do which was just fucking fire rockets at them we need to figure out a way to like not kill everybody at the same time and the LA Times long look back in 2005 makes

the point plane and aviation historians quoting Edwards AFE researcher Peter Merlin have kept the line locals used that afternoon because it matches the scene as people described it. Quote, Mighty Mouse Rockets fell like hail all over downtown Palmdale.

That's fucking, that is fucking crazy. Yeah, it's nuts. I just, it is insane. Compare it with the Battle of L.A. where nothing really happened and nothing was seen.

This is just pure chaos, unadulterated until they ran out of fuel. That was the reason they stopped is they, well, we're out of fuel. And then he crashed. And then the drone crashed on its own. Yeah,

no, Cash, the Hellcat crash too, right? No, no, no. It was just the drone that went down. I thought you said the Hellcat ran out of fuel, started spiraling and crashed eight miles to the east. The hell cat ran out of fuel. Had to go back and refueling while it was refueling. The drone ran out of fuel and then started spiraling and crashing.

My bad, if I made it sound more confusing than it was. I think this is the building block of a healthy society. I think, you know, they united to attack a common enemy, not one that was real. But, hey, one. You know, they came together. They got rid of a lot of. lot of ammunition that would only have been used to shoot each other, you know, like I, I think we should, they're a little further away from war. Yeah. I think I think we should, we should every,

every city should just have like battle drills once a year. Everyone just gets all their guns and shoots at an invisible target. And you look at everybody on the streets and you go like this, just pointed them and go, see? Yeah. See? Yeah. It's like a modern day, like less violent version of a head on a pike and nobody has to die and nobody has to die and you can shoot at the explosion factory all day long you know what you would love that so much yeah how about just therapy that's good i mean yeah sure that's good too i don't know maybe it's just like maybe guns and shooting guns in the air is better that man will literally blow up the explosion factory instead of they really will i will frankly so at what point in during their flight do you think

they reached the point of like, you just want to, like, fire some fucking rockets around and just start, like, aiming? You want to shoot 208 rockets at downtown Palmdale, man? Like, if we just aim for, like, the forest, it'll be fine, right? I always wanted to just, like, fucking rot, fire these things. At what point, like, you had to think at what point did a rocket hit an unintended spot and caused damage that they not go, we should not do this anymore? They really went bull hog and just kept going anyway.

I mean, that's meant to be super regimented, right? You know, you got to obey. You, they shave your heads so you, like, deindividualize. Like, I would spend the entire time on the job, like, in charge of all these tanks. Just like, come on. What's the worst that it happened? Just let me go. Just shot.

Once. It's just an explosion factor. Listen, when are we ever going to, they're not going to know. How bad can it be? It's in the 1950s. Nobody fucking has a camera on them. Nobody's got an iPhone. Yeah, exactly.

Fucking just do it, dude. And they, you know, they did. Amen. Amen. But sometimes the LA Sky performs for smaller audiences. audiences and in the canyons and neighborhoods where local geographies become part of the phenomenon itself. Topanga's canyon wave starts with calls and a byline.

Early summer in 1992, the phones at the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Lost Hills Malibu Station light up with people describing lights and objects over Topanga's Canyon. The date that gets repeated later is June 14th. The community paper, the Topanga Messenger, begins running items about it in their paper and former editor Colin Penno writes on the cluster and keeps returning to it through that summer as more accounts come in. So they're starting to see lights over Topanga's Canyon at night. More and more people are seeing them.

They're calling into the cops. Is it Topanga's Canyon or is it Topanga Canyon? Topanga Canyon. I think it's Topanga Canyon. I'm probably just, I don't have an, I'm literally adding an S on my own. I'm realizing there's no, there's no ass on my script. The Panga Canyon. I'm thinking of Tepanga because I'm thinking of fucking Topanga for Boy Meets World.

And I'm just, like, she is also just Topanga. Yeah, but I'm like, I'm like giving her the canyon. I'm like, it's her canyon in my head for some reason. That's what she's at. You know, it is now. Whoever it was named after before, not anymore. The community paper, the Topanga Messenger, begins running items about this. And former editor Colin Penno writes on the cluster of lights and keeps returning to it

through that summer as more accounts keep coming in. The bigger daily start taking notice in the Los Angeles Times runs short pieces and columns flagging that the Topanga small paper is treating unidentified lights as real news and that neighbors are now swapping stories of odd movements over the ridgeline and even abduction claims to the sheriff's station after dinner on the coast. So who else do you send in but fucking Mufon and a field investigator from Mufon named Preston Dennett, which is one of the most Mufon goddamn names anyone could have if you're in Mufon and your name's Preston Dennett, it's like you're like, I feel like

you're fully actualized. I feel like you've got like a little brush mustache and some spectacles and you dress very well and you're no nonsense and you kind of look like like Bob Hoskins a little bit. A little bit. Somewhere between Bob Alaban and Bob Hoskins. Somewhere in there and yeah. Do you know what Mufon is, Abby? How deep in the UFO world are you? I assume it's next door to point Mugu we were talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Same thing. Mufon is the mutual UFO network. And it recently came out that they have been working with the government on collecting data on stuff.

But this is 1992, so maybe not at this point in time they're working with the government. They're like the friendly, non-secret men in black kind of. Yes, yes, correct. Yeah. A field investigator from Mufon named Preston Dennett started going and collecting names. He's knocking on doors. He starts recording interviews, filing his own reports with Mufon, and turns the material into a book in 1999.

that treats to the Topanga incident as a long-running hotspot with a peak that begins on June 14th, 1992. The structure of the book shows, like, you what witnesses were actually describing. Chapter titles point to what made it memorable for the people who were lived through. They're like literally names of little quotes from the people. A night when the wave begins,

more accounts of the same night that kind of read like confirmation with no hard evidence and a run of follow-on sightings that stretch across the following weeks after the first initials. the peak siding in 1992, June 14th. Accounts were people claim contact inside homes and on the road, a chapter about missing time on Grandview Drive, and then is one even about a helicopter that supposedly chased a UFO in the area around that time as well, though I couldn't find any specific

paperwork via FOIA or anything. 4,000 rounds at the fucking thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It doesn't seem like there was any FOIA requests or anything. I couldn't find anything about a helicopter out at that point in time. It's possible. I've just failed. the research, but I tried finding something.

And then there's even reports in Santa Monica that suggest that the activity spilled south and west toward the flats. Topanga's geography is kind of part of the story in every interview as well. It's a kind of compact community in the Santa Monica Mountains with a single main road that crosses from the Pacific Coast Highway to the valley floor. And the canyon walls make kind of like windows. A light that raises up behind a ridge can appear and vanish in seconds. the geometry of the land itself

is very, it's squiggly and cause a lot of interesting visual illusions. And because it's squiggly and weird, something people don't also think about is sound also carries very, very weirdly in that area in some areas. Witnesses don't even agree on the shape or size of what they saw,

but the recurring features of what they saw are consistent. Bright, silent lights that pace a driver for a short stretch along to Panga Canyon Boulevard, objects that cross the saddle between roads without engines, noise, you know, a silent thing crossing the road, points in the sky that brighten as they approach, then climb and disappear.

And then it appears in more than one local piece to say that he watched the same thing himself during the peak while driving the boulevard at night. He convinced at first that he was just looking at an aircraft on approach until it rose sharply and was gone, which is what a lot of people say is like these things look like aircrafts coming closer, whatever, and then boom, it shoots up straight in the sky and it disappears. The same articles record a second hand sighting as well. from a Topanga employer who says a bright, soundless light appeared while a small film crew was resetting a camera and was gone before they could even roll again.

Even sympathetic coverage notes that there is no photographs that came out of any of these moments at all. The paper trail shows that shows how the wave kind of becomes even a community event. The messenger keeps on publishing it because it's causing sales to rise. It's probably fun. It's probably feels probably good vibes. Oh, for small community like that. Pokemon Go vibes. Yeah.

Exactly. Was this before or after the 92 rise? Like time. I don't know when the 92 riots were. Because I always think of that as summer just because people. I mean, it was April, I think for the riots.

Hold on. Let's see. April 29th, 1992. And this is June. So this is after the riots. Shoutouts. Sublime.

Yeah. So like, like you said, it's fun. So obviously they keep publishing on it. Then the LA Times mentions the book that was written and summarizes what's in it for people describing several dozen instances out of the book collected in the interviews and noting that some in the set go well beyond lights in the sky that do go to reporting abductions.

There's probably a nice little deep dive in there of like, you know. We could probably do one episode on a Topanga Canyon event. You know, this is kind of just like a highlighted version of it. Local and regional media then amplify the hotspot framing and fix Topanga's reputation inside a much larger city that is already fluent in UFO lore. There isn't a single clinching video, though. or even a radar plot point to, like, show that something was picked up. What there is is a thick stack of testimony placed on a map that makes sense to the people

who live there, and that's about it. There's almost nowhere that you go off the road. Like, it's just houses. Like, it's a great drive. That's what it sounds like. Like, if you go, you know, if you go from Malibu through to, like, Woodland Hills or, like, Calabasasus way, right? There's a bunch of, like, bougie little places to go have lunch or whatever.

But it really is, like, very different. And that's kind of a thing about L.A. That's kind of unique in a way is that there's these like canyons. There's Topanga Canyon. There's Laurel Canyon. There's Benedict Canyon. There's all these canyons. There's all these canyons that just like, it's like city, city, city, city.

And then like nothing, like nature, like really craggy nature. And then you like pop out on the other side. You're still in the city. And it's where like most of the weird stuff. Like as we go through this month, you'll see like how much of like what's weird about L.A. is centered in like places that are like outside of the city but are in the city. It's really, it's really kind of unique. It's interesting. Yeah.

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And I'm actually got to go make a few minis right now. And that's, and honestly, the Topanga Canyon case is very much, there's a mini version to me of like the Phoenix Lights, where everybody sees something on one night, really in particular. And then there's some trailing reports of the days and weeks after, but really the story is about that one day. Do you know the story of the Phoenix Lights, Abby? I don't.

I'm excited to learn. Oh, Lord. I'll admit that it. it just sounds like a video game. So in the 90s, if I remember correctly, let me double check. Yeah, this was like 97, I think, something like that. This was in Phoenix,

7, yep. There's the UFO that went to objection. I'm sorry. There's also the Miles lights, the Edgewood lights. Yeah. This was a prosecuting. Yeah.

97, and this was a UFO sighting over Phoenix, Arizona, where over a thousand people saw something. A huge UFO that silently just went. It was a big triangle. There's a big triangle. Some, like, VHS recordings that are really hard to find that are, like, out there. Like, the military showed up afterward and whatnot. Um, it's, like, well documented.

Who was it? Was it? Who was it? There was, like, an actor who was also a pilot who flew in and also saw it and, like, talks about it. It might have been Kurt Russell. It was somebody like that. It was not Harrison Ford, but it was like someone of that, like, one of those people who,

like, hops in a plane sometimes. And I remember also the mayor or somebody like, it was Kurt Russell. It was Kurt Russell. Yeah. Mayer, like, covered it up. And he saw them in the air. Yeah. So, like, this, but this feels like a smaller scale of that where, like, there's this

bang of like, like, everybody sees something in the sky. But this is because it was small and more out of the way. It didn't really get huge beyond the book being brought up in the LA Times. Yeah. I don't want to sell short the potential for like mass hysteria, right? I don't want to, like, say it could, because it really could be nothing. It literally could be nothing. It's hard to corroborate because, like, if, if a newspaper editor calls you on the phone

and is like, hi, I'm writing an article. have you seen balls? I'm like, well, I'm a grown adult. From time to time, I hear of them. I glips a ball.

I hear of them. I don't want people to know I'm a nerd. Yeah. Exactly. But I, but I, yeah, I don't know.

Like, it just feels like, even if something, like, it feels pretty clear that people thought something was happening, for real. It doesn't feel like a bunch of,

a bunch of people cashed in on something. But I think that mass hysteria is as as fascinating, almost as. Oh, absolutely. As a, as a real.

siding in a way so even tangentially even my own minimal experience it is impossible to describe what it is you're seeing without sounding dumb because of just like there's no terminology be to other be like lights that moved in this way and hovered and like when you say that a person is going to be like yeah that sounds like a plane or drone or literally anything unless you're literally watching it like actively being actively weird in front of you it's very hard to describe what you see in 1992 there's no fucking you don't have a camera in your pocket yeah you know

you can't flip that thing open and just immediately start recording so all you have is people fucking talking about it interesting but that's yeah go ahead Alex I was just going to say if you're into Panga Canyon go to endless color to get some food because it's a great place to go

what kind of food it's like pizza and like burgers and stuff and then if you're in Acton and you're on your way the Vasquez Rocks Or, like I said earlier, the Antelope Valley poppy fields, like, which are like a little bit west of Palmdale. Go to Crazyados diner. There you go.

L.A. month. You have to bring me to those places. Yeah. You have to bring me to these places out. I'll take you. I'll take you. If you, when you are here, if you want to go get a nice little diner meal, I will take you. That's my, that's my fortune.

What's your best diner? Is that your favorite? My favorite diner period. I don't know. I think I like Nick's Cafe by State Historic Park but then there's also Rays in Santa Monica that I like

and I like the Mel's on the strip I like the like one that used to be that other diner that's like has like the valet that's like right on the sunset strip I think that one's kind of nice days to my fellow Rhode Island listeners I don't know if these exist anymore but my favorite diners in Rhode Island were the blue onion

thank you for every 3 a.m. post D&D breakfast they ever had Blue onion what a name And Kitts out in Patucket. I don't know if they exist anymore either. God knows what exists out in Rhode Island anymore. There's a tea room in the Marx and Spencer in Halifax in West Riding, Yorkshire, in the UK. And my grandma likes going to that tea room.

And she's turning 100 tomorrow. Oh, my gosh. So I don't know if she goes there anymore. I'm going to find out what health she is in very soon. I am bracing myself to discover what new. new ailments she's developed. Are you sure that somebody's not writing a novel about you right now? I hope so.

I hope to entertain them. I've been making disastrous choices. I was so happy to see my grandma get old and miserable because like all my life, she was doing grandma stuff. She was like, I don't know. It used to be her thing. She'd go, she'd go, I don't know. And that's, I picked that up when I'm, you know, disciplining children.

She had to discipline the children. And then as I was an adult, she was, she was. was mellow, you know, because she didn't really have any responsibility. She was old, retired. Then now that she can't really look after herself that well. And it's very frustrating to be like, I don't want, I don't want eight prunes in my oatmeal. I want six prunes, you moron, you fool. Why would you give me the wrong number of prunes? And she's just so angry all the time and so sarcastic. And like, I always wondered where I got that from in myself, because my parents are both very mild-mannered. And it means so much to me to know that it came from my grandma. Yeah, that's

That's amazing that you're going to, like, arrive in the country, well, in the area on her birthday. Very, very excited to get to see here. Thank you. Thank you. I'll pass on. Tell her I said, HBD. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. She'll be very excited to learn what that means. Yeah. Now, this next one is actually not one we did in a live show, but a small story that I grabbed because it's very close to home for you, Alex. Oh, good. This is a, another, as small as to Panga was, there's even a more intimate, weird thing happened in 1974 out in where else, but Culver City. Uh-oh.

My hometown. There's a house in Culver City in 1974 when a woman named Doris Bither tells investigators that something in her home is attacking her. The call routes through the small parapsychology circle orbiting UCLA's Neuropsychiatric Institute at the time. And two names that repeat in every retelling show up. up at her door, Barry Taff and Kerry Gainor. Their approach is exactly what you'd expect from like that eras of like ghost hunting before there was a TV template to follow. This is 1974 to remind you.

Interviews at the kitchen table word had, walkthroughs of the home, notes about temperature, drops in temperature, knocks where they're happening, attempts to set up cameras when the stories say that the activity peaks at night because again, they're running on film. So they have to be able to run the camera only where they have enough. a role to have it's not like a huge digital storage almost like a non-starter to me that seems almost so impossible to do that it seems crazy that's what yeah that's why they could only do it where the reported peaks were but even then that feels like yeah that sucks man because like if what if something happens yeah they the equipment list itself is very basic instant film for quick shots

35 millimeter for anything they hope to analyze later an infrared stock to try and pull something out of the dark that a flash would might wash away so they like the old school equipment man and what they say they got are photographs of light where there wasn't a light source bands and arcs in a room that shouldn't have them streaks that appear across the frame in front of doris sometimes giving the impression that the light has structure to it as if something long and bright had been waved through the picture those images are the ones that get reproduced in magazines and books for the next 40 years they look exactly like a thing you would want to believe if you already believe the story it's your classic kind of

plasma, blurry smudge in the picture. Taffingaynor also say they tried infrared and that what should have been the best stock for the job was botched. The film became overexposed and there was nothing to save. The closest they come to a control shot is a set of empty room frames and photographs of the same space when nothing unusual is reported. The difference in their telling is just the light. Doris claims, Doris's claims are the part that still make people tense when this

this whole case comes up. She says she was assaulted by something she could not see. In some accounts, there were three figures involved, two holding her down while a third carried out the attack. In others, it's a, yeah, but then in other accounts, it's a single presence that returned at night. There are retellings that add a detail about a greenish frog-like form coalescing at the edge of a bed and then dissolving when the lights came on.

Can't live alone in this house, ma'am. You got Shrecks. Yeah. It's like dissolving Shrek. infestation, unfortunate. Those are the parts of the story that traveled the furthest, obviously, after the book in the movie, because there was a movie made about it at some point. And they are also the parts with the least independent support or any evidence at all.

There are no medical records in the public file that I could find that resolve any of what she says one way or another. There are no police reports that take that claim and make it into a document. What there is is just a consistent narrative from Doris and a set of photographs that that don't prove what they're often said to prove. And the skeptical work on these photographs is kind of hard to ignore if you care about the difference between, you know, a strong case and a strong story. Photo analysts who've gone back through them point to the ordinary ways a band or arc

of light can appear in an instant on 35 millimeter stock that has been shot in a cramped dark room. Basically, a thin object close to the lens can take a flash in bloom reading as a bright bar quote and quote that looks like it floats in the in midair a bumped exposure or a dirty roller inside an instant film pack can leave a glowing smear that has nothing to do with the scene in front of the camera at all and a camera strap a pendant a length of string near the lens can easily also easily flare so brightly that it looks like something independent in the uh of the photographer and without negatives chain of custody repeatable setups the pictures are are more now about how cameras

can, like, create convincing illusions more than showing that there's an actual goes. The stories are more horrific than the pictures by a lot. Yeah, exactly. And that's why I went looking for medical records. You know, not that that's easy to fucking find those things, but I try to like get to like get to like, it's worth trying to verify. Yeah. Yeah. And even if you give, like, I think the most generous reading to the investigators, the results still the same.

There still really isn't a single frame in their photos that bears the weight to claim that they were definitely photographing the phenomenon as it was happening in front of. them. The surrounding facts make the case heavier, too. Like, it's not, doesn't become easier. Doris lived a hard life. By every account that was put in print, she was tight on money, the house was in rough shape. She was raising children inside stress that it would have buckled like most families at the time. And if you spent time around people who were barely keeping a roof over their head, you know, the atmosphere. I lived in that my whole life. You know, like, it's just fucking tense. And that can, like, you know, from my own experience, I can cause mental breaks in like the mother in the household.

There was also the door, the house was kind of in disarray. And to her every night, every sound she heard at night carried a story of like proof of the haunting. Days where small problems started to feel like curses that she couldn't shake. It doesn't mean that she was making anything up, right?

Per se. It means that a story like this without any sort of paranormal presence around me. Exactly. It just means that like a story like this was growing where fear was already doing half the work for her, like where her life was already creating the atmosphere. And if you do go on the other side and do believe that there was a haunting, it's these

kinds of atmospheres, as we've seen with more believable hauntings, that poltergeist seemed to pop up, that these more trickstery, malevolent-e, hard to call them spirits. They almost seem manifestations of energy. They almost seem internal, don't they? Yeah, they almost like projected internalized, like projected outward. Like, you know, we were talking about servitors? Yes. Uh, we were doing, we were doing an episode on chaos magic recently, Abby, and we were talking about, oh, yeah, the keepers are the seven chow. Yeah, exactly. The servitor is right. Yeah. And then, uh, no, but the servitors, like, you, you can like, they're like programmable spell automatons that can do small tasks, um, basically. Uh, and maybe what if, what if, what if polter guys are something like that that you don't intend, like something. Yeah, like some kind of malevolent thought form that's like generated, you know? If you've heard of a topa before, also similar to that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, that's, servitors are dumber tulpas. They're not allowed to get tulpa intelligence. They're very basically built for a single object, like to help you stop procrastinating as our example is in the episode. Actually, I had a malevolent tulpa for many years. It was a rabbit named Harvey. He was a cucka, as you can see. But he was causing so much trouble for me and threatening my life.

So I actually had to make a second stronger tulpa to hunt the first tulpa. But then I had to deal with that guy. So I had to make a third tulpa. Did you finally end the topal line? Are you on like your six feet of polo? The sixth tulpa, and this was very brilliant, I think. The sixth tulpa was edible. And that took care of the whole thing.

That's so, the perfect crime. Yeah. Oh, wow. I also solved world hunger. Oh, wow. Yeah, you're just like, it's there. It's real. It's the think system.

Yeah. That's like Bretherian. That's the secret. That's the secret from the book, The Secret. It is chaos magic. Yeah. So this is like one of those cases where, Like, I truly think a lot of just, like, the event, like, just a lot of the atmosphere of the house and just her life caused a lot of, like, the fertile ground in which the story did to grow.

Did you exactly where this was? Culver City. That's all. I didn't give you an address. I didn't give an address. I'm interested in what neighborhood. Yeah, yeah. I'm just interested in the neighborhood because I, it's hard for me to imagine, like, you know, driving around Culver City and encountering, like, ghostly vibes.

It's a very, like, sort of idyllic place. I don't know. It doesn't feel very scary. It was this very house. Alex. Oh shit. That's why you hear voices, dude. The green guy is waving at us.

Are you still hearing the voices in the, in like the mumbling chatter? It usually feels like, it usually sounds like somebody moving. And it's like, I do live in an apartment, right? And it does have thin walls, but like, I don't know, like, it sounds more like when your dog is

somewhere in the house and you like, and the dog talks. You know, like when you're like, hey where are you and your dog like just kind of like shifts and doesn't even come into your room but you know they're like alive now like that kind of sound where it's definitely in my house is like what I keep hearing and then yeah I've heard a couple voices but mostly not mostly it's been weird things happening and me hearing like something or seeing me and Kelly of like both like we've been like did you just see that like a couple times

where we both saw like a movement I've not heard or seen a thing every time I've stayed at your place not once but I hope one day maybe you're too thirsty man I feel like I think there's a vibe there you know you know how like in chaos magic they say you gotta forget

yeah that's the hardest part you can't you got you're you're too locked into the ghost thing you got to play Grant Morrison says he don't have to forget though you don't have to forget no he just works yeah because he does he's not practicing chaos magic he practices the form of magic that chaos magic was

built on. The original like stuff that the people in the 80s found and then built chaos magic around. It was a spare letter. Yeah, the original. I was there when that magic was written. Oh, shit. How old are? I don't know. I thought that sounded cool.

I just meant you very old. I wasn't. Yes, yes. I'm a million. Thank you. Yeah, you look so good. Oh, my God. Incredible. Yeah, well, it's easy to age slowly when you know all the old magics. Yeah. I actually hear voices all the time, but I tell my that I'm recording a podcast, so no one calls the police. Smart, very, very smart. This little haunting case also picked up a second life about four years later

when novelist and screenwriter Frank De Felita takes the material and turns it into the entity in 1970. Oh, what? The movie? Yeah, that's the movie. I was told you it was made movie. Is that the single most generic title a movie ever had? It sounds it.

No, what was the one? Isn't there a movie called Plain? Did a movie come out called Plain? concept premise film obviously for the sake of the movie names are changed the events got rearranged and kind of sharpened to tell a better movie and storyline I just remember the movie box from

blockbuster because it was like it doesn't show anything it just looks almost like the thing except it just says okay yeah that's up there too on it it just says the entity right and the logo looks a lot like the thing I got I don't know yeah yeah well four years later Barbara Hershey plays the lead in the film that keeps the brutality at the center

of the story and adds effects obviously to give more flare. That's the version most people know when people think about the entity because the entity was a book first and then it was a movie. They also like, yeah, so that's the cinematic storytelling is what most people know. But there's not obviously any evidence that proves it other than she clearly was going through it.

There are also Coda notes from the investigators that turn up in interviews years later. Like Taff says he stayed in touch with the family and that the phenomena followed Doris to more than one addressed after she left Culver City including a place in Carson and another in San Bernardino County.

Hey, I know Carson very well. Hey, let me go. Those follow-ups are just anecdotes, though. Literally, there was no more investigating done. He was just kind of keeping in contact with her. No photographs, no log dates, no journal, nothing. So, like, where does that leave the case? It just kind of turns it to me.

More of like, I think, a traumatized individual dealing with hard times that ended up maybe projecting or like, you know, having a bit of a mental break with how things were going. And again, in 1974, they didn't know what that was. Mental health wasn't real in 1974. There was no mental health in 1974. Take some ludes. You'll be fine.

Exactly. Oh, wait, no. Sorry. Take some quay ludes in it. I realize there was ambiguity there. Sorry. Right. Yeah, well, you are eight million years old.

It's, you know. I don't know what you young people say. A lot of words have changed me. When you ask how you're doing, say a total madre. But if they're not Mexican, they don't know which. talking about, they say, just say bien, you moron. It's very frustrating, very frustrated. I don't like the use today.

Did you see the picks of the house? Oh, no. I didn't look any picks. I didn't look any picks. Sorry. No, there's, there's some picks. I just found them. I just found them. Yeah, like the photos are, you know, they look over-exposed, really, really, like. Simple light tricks that I've done on my iPhone

camera before. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's interesting. Like, a lot of them are do, like, look like perfectly curved, almost line flares a little bit. I also love the author's recreation, which is, like, so anachronistic because it has a, like, new style Nickelodeon Ninja Turtle and a weird, sick painting of Pennywise, like, from the recent It film in it. It is absolutely, it stands in contrast quite a bit. Strand of hair.

It's a great, a great label. Then moving away from, from a little smaller haunts and toward one that we did cover on a live show as well is what else, but the, the fucking queen mary oh my gosh we've talked the only episode of most haunted that you can't watch on amazon oh really i don't know why it's not there it's like oh you know the vet fielding may have made the best go show of all time with most haunted even though it has derrick akora on it and even though they like caught him out like they you know i thought that was so badass and they've been caught faking things a lot of times but for some reason that queen mary episode specifically i I watched this show with my mom

all the time when I was a kid and that one was the one that we'd like the Queen Mary one's on tonight let's crowd around and watch it for some reason like watching YouTube Kitchen Nightmares on repeat until I like know every moment of it

but nowadays you can't get that one and I remember them seeing like footsteps and shit like wet footsteps and hearing ghostly sounds and stuff so I don't know it's worth if somebody out there has got that that sweet sweet bootleg of the I would love that most haunted queen mary

episode hook me up chulamati pot at gmail.com uh queen mary is i've never been on it but it's i mean it looks like any other ship of the size it's fucking like a city basically it's nice it's big it's kind of kind of like a little bit lost its luster i would say oh sure maybe by now they do a lot more like carnivaly things now than they do like elegant things but i did go to a wedding there a couple years ago that was very nice so you know i think they can still pretty it up when they want to well when the queen mary left southampton on her main voyage in may of 1936 she was basically a floating city with two pools a ballroom a squash court a hospital built for a route that became a routine during the great depression they don't know what you're talking about this money's

going exactly where it needs to go i don't know you're talking about it's like an old-timey version of like one of those like arc spaceships to mars for the rich people it's just like a gambling city on the ocean to get away from... Think of how good we... Think of how good we have it. Trump could be spending money on a ship. Instead, he's just building a ballroom, all right? That's cheap comparatively.

I wish he was building a boat. I want to see him on a boat engineered by SpaceX. I want to see a crash with an engine by himself. I want to see him waving and going away into the sunset. Yeah. What are you doing on the boat, sir? I'm building nukes on the boat. Which I'm going to pay for myself.

Do you remember that that photo op he did like... nine years ago now where he was like riding a truck and he just goes out of terror he's like, don't you wish he could just drive away from all this? Yeah, I wish you could just... Yeah, we all do. Yeah, dude. It's weird to think that even he is just trapped by the man that he's become.

He was wandering around on the roof the other day. He is not in control of his own faculties. He is in dementia land. Yeah. I would not describe the Titanic as like a symbol of economic equality. No. But I feel like the Queen Mary is the ship that much more deserves to get Titanic.

Yes. Yes. At this point, yes. So its route was Southampton to Churborg, to New York and back. And in the late 1930s, she wore the blue ribboned and the kind of celebrity traffic that followed it. In the war, she dropped her Cunard colors for gray and turned into a troop carrier, moving allied soldiers at a route, really rapid pace.

There is a wartime crossing where she carried more than 16,000. thousand people at once, a human population. Literally, I went and I was like, that's a lot. It's a human population larger than some towns riding in just one hall. That's how big this ship is. If you're imagining, like, if you've ever been to Long Beach, it's still there sitting in the harbor, like, as a hotel. And if you're imagining the Titanic, that's like a very fine thing to do.

It looks exactly like that thing. Am I remembering right, Alex, a Pokemon correspondent, that the Queen Mary was the site of some of the early Pokemon national tournaments because I seem to remember I was one I believe that there was one that's so classy

that's very like the SSN type vibes yeah you know I like that and then and then you could actually tear up Exodia and throw it off

beloved Pokemon Exodia yeah and then you could go down below decks and get screamed at by the souls of the dead what are you referencing that's what Pokemon

players deserve yeah there's beef you know I think they do need a little bit more flavor in their lives. I feel like I feel like we could all go out and do things more, see each other, see each other more.

You know what I mean? See each other in real life. No. Why would, why would I want to go outside? I have all my toys in here. That's also very, very true.

I did spend a small, not small amount of my time today, reorganizing my comic book. So, you know, I enjoy that. I'm like, I'm like,

I'm like, I'm going to, it's time to like reorganize my game, my PC games and take them all down. It's just fun to just go through it all again. Yeah. I just recently decided, like, I want to mature up and, and move some of my, my comic books off of a shelf and have, like, a plant that I'd be responsible for. I don't, I'm going to start with a succulent.

That's good. But, like, now I just have a big box of books and I, do I don't, I don't know, they're at the back of my closet. I don't know what I'm, what's my responsibility to these books. It's, you know, you got to thank them and tell them, say goodbye to them or whatever. A good night kiss every night. Swap for swap. I do comic swap on Reddit R slash comics swap

Oh that sounds good Oh that's cool You see at the top of my shelf there You can kind of see like There's like a bunch of like Like redundant comics up there That are like

Like you know When you buy like an omnibus And you like Rebuy some Some things that you already have So that you don't need two of it So you kind of I you know And then I swap those out

It's nice I get that It's a good way to trade out comics Back to the Queen Mary There's even there's another A warstststststubes story on October 2nd, 1942, north of Ireland. The Queen Mary was running a fast

on a zigzag course when her Royal Navy escort, the anti-aircraft cruiser HMS, Kurokoa, ended up, not Kuroka, Kuroa, ended up dead ahead. The liners bow cut the cruiser in half. Holy shit. Yeah, and the Aft section

went down immediately. The forward half, just a few minutes later. Orders to keep speed on U-boat water meant the Queen Mary radioed for help and steamed up. Yeah, they could not stop. Seriously, by like wartime law, you got to go. There's a U-boats there around.

They radioed, the Queen Mary radioed for help and steamed on with a torn bow while destroyers turned back to pull survivors from the oil and wreckage. About a hundred men lived. The death toll was more than 300, though. And the wartime secrecy around the incident kept it in a long, quiet box until after 1945. Then courts argued over fault for years, and it survives now in ship histories as a collision reduced to a paragraph that feels too small for what actually happened.

Is this related to the screaming men in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, very well, literally maybe, literally exactly may be haunted, like related to that particular haunting that's talked about. Like, this is one of those two that are like, just that a pure historical curiosity, I'd love to do an episode about this one incident, like how it happened, why it was buried. Dude, I would love to. We should stay in between.

It's probably not that expensive to stay one. night right like we could all we could do that yeah that be so fun this i bring this story up because of like that haunting of like there people here screaming men down like below deck in like the bow somewhere after all the war was done though she went back to just being a liner tried to fight the jet age and pretty much just got lost the city of long beach bought her in 1967 and she arrived in december and opened to the public four years later as a hotel museum and a sort of like living exhibit of when traveling by seas was still the glamorous way to go anywhere.

That's the part that everybody still agrees on. It's just that what happens after and at night is what people debate as to what is true. There's one name you can kind of say that isn't part of the myth file, a man by the name of John Petter. He was an 18-year-old fireman and cleaner working in the aft engine room

on July 10th, 1966, when a watertight door closed and crushed him. The ship's archives put his age and the date on the paper and every tour that guts it knows the number of that door 13. If you've been below decks on a paid walk after hours, you stood near the... It's literally door 13?

Yep, door 13. That's like destiny, man. That's crazy. Something about that number. Yeah. If you've been on the tours, you've probably been brought near it. Listen to a story about a safety drill and watch people go quiet. As like they talk about the death. It's the most

reliable kind of like story that this has. The ship has post it being at war. And there are other entries that have like other kind of like little bits of evidence behind them. The ship's book of the dead compiled from log entries list passengers and crew who died on board during the sailing years. Is it written in hieroglyphics? Yeah, it's written in hieroglyphics. Most of them are written down as natural causes with the blunt kind of language like found dead in bunk that was written in there. Is crushed by door natural causes? No, that one's not natural. You naturally would die if you were crushed by a door.

Yeah, all death is natural. It makes perfect sense that you died that way. We're all going to die anyway, right? Heart stops, brain stops, natural death. If you get mushed up, that's, that's, that's visceral. You're naturally going to die for it. Ascend to a higher level of consciousness, very unnatural. Exactly.

If a ghost sucked my soul way. Elijah had a supernatural death. Yeah. Yeah, that was, that's why. That was wild for him. RAP to Elijah, but I'm different. Yeah. I'm going to make it, you guys.

A senior officer William Eric Stark accidentally poisoned himself in September 1949 by drinking carbon tetrachloride that had been poured into an empty gin bottle. Oh. Yeah. Carbon tetrachloride is the chemical symbol for gin. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Is it clear?

That would be so. It has to be right. Or the bottle itself was already like dark or something. I don't know. So someone just had a bunch of poison sitting around it. They're like, where am I going to put it? Oh, I got a gin bottle right here. He actually didn't die on board the ship, but actually ashore after travel, the logs traced

what happened in the timeline, and it's one of those accidents that became part of the oral tour as well, long before anyone bothered to look for the primary notice as to what actually happened, and those documents matter because the rest of what people come for tends to live outside of any evidence or documents. The ship leans into that, because it would be strange not to, and it's a big attractor now, because they have the haunted encounters tour, and the night runs into a compartmental, that aren't on the daytime map. They made an exclusive thing that you have to pay to go do

as part of the reason to go there. The guides who know when to let silence do have to work. You have to understand the guides are also trained to make it spookier, by the way, they're telling you stories and stuff. There's an exhibit panel for stateroom B340 on B deck that points to a mysterious quote unquote vague log entry in September of 1949

where a passenger was found dead in his cabin with no name, no cause, a blank that became kind of like just like part of the lore the room's reputation grew from there it was sealed for a stretch in the hotel years then reopened as a premium if you dare booking hotel room

YouTubers want to show up and spend a night just like I just said literally like yeah yeah they know they understand YouTubeers be where you're in for a scare I would have discovered it had I gone to the website and there's probably a paranormal section on the website I bet

absolutely there is And I'll tell you, Mike, I've enjoyed your, you're telling this story just because the way that we characterize ships as women, like, you'd just be like, oh, she, she retired around 1967, City of Long Beach, purchased her and putting your display, people wander through her every couple of days. Let me just try to take a quick note real quick and make sure I ever do that again. No, no, no, no, do it more. I think buildings should be men. Double the amount of misogynistic comments about. buildings and ships misogynistic comments about buildings is like that's a podcast Gina specter album or something I don't know it's like a I think you were very

respectful to this object yeah thank you very much perfectly yeah yeah you honor yeah you I try you know yeah and obviously people who stay there also can now leave notes so people swap stories about faucets and lights and then knocks at the doors that happened uh and that just builds into the the lore of the ship continually the pool areas are what most people picture when they say the ship is haunted, and this is where the record and the stories begin splitting. The first class pool decommissioned long time ago and left as a dry art deco set has a reputation for small wet footprints in a child's voice.

Yeah. This is what they saw in the fucking episode. Really, they filmed. They had footage of it. The name that gets repeated often is Jackie. And the story says a young girl drowned in the second class pool where during the sailing years. and now second class imagine yeah yeah imagine a second class imagine yeah that's no we're all

equal and absolutely not divided by class anymore um the second and the ghost of jacky now plays not near the second class pool where she died but near the first class pool i wouldn't want to hang out where i died either that's yeah no i know it's the smartest ghost i've ever heard of yeah get me out there dude i would not want to be there at all i get bad vibes places on it yeah i got i feel like somebody died here i'm gonna go play upstairs uh there's also another popular story about a father who murdered his wife and two daughters in a cabin identified in modern tours as cabin b 474 uh it's been told on board as a reason to expect small voices in a hallway at night uh that one has a paper that one actually has a paper trail too just not the one that people i think would hope for the murder did happen in the

names do match, but it was in Roanoke, Virginia in 1964, and not on the ship itself. The only link to the Queen Mary in the logs from that week is a telegram to the purser asking the ship's doctor to be ready to support the children's grandmother, who was a passenger at the time, and to keep news of the murders from reaching her until family couldn't meet her in port. So it was literally a telephone game that was like, grandma of this family's on the ship. Don't tell her until she's there, and then she can learn about our family getting murdered. by this guy out in Virginia and then somehow because I think it was just told to her and she was on the ship somehow the story became he murdered his family on the ship but that's not true

wow that is that is like so perfectly on theme for the type of stuff we talk about we talk about like murderers and stuff like like zodiac jfk where just like people are just like yeah that's cooler let's go with that yeah let's go yeah yeah i mean bell star even back of the wild west the legend of Bell Star was like almost exclusively lies though like just to build a legend that wasn't actually there like tidbits of facts that are tweaked and implanted at different points in time to build something that's not real. What's your ideal hunt like both of you die? What are the circumstances location?

Like what's your what's your ideal ghost story if you become a ghost? Do I have limitations like my stuck to where I die? Yeah. Sky is the limit. Let's say you've got full God powers. But like the more God like you are, the more undeniable. it will be so like you can't if you have like if you want to just be like this is what happens when you die guys which I always thought like it's very unneighborly that ghosts don't do that

don't explain oh I'm like part of the contract though well I'm gonna answer this in a real way I am more of the belief of ghosts are real if they're real it's more likely a weird weird wobbly point in space and time where we're more likely seeing them yeah yeah and they're likely seeing or they may be seeing us which is why they react to weird and they don't know what's going on. I think that makes more logical sense if we're to assume that they're ghosts. I think when you die,

you just become part of the great information sphere, part of consciousness, whatever, like the grand consciousness of it all is. The newest sphere? I don't. I use that word sometimes and no one ever knows what I'm talking about. It's like it's the orange shit

from Evangelion, basically. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. Yeah, the LCL. Yeah, I think that's what I. I'd be my preference. I love just like take what I've learned and meld into the greater consciousness and become part of the story of the universe. Ooh, okay.

I would haunt. I would become like a crypted at like dank arcades. Like if you have like sick games in the arcade, you might like take a picture and they'll be like a dude of the Hawaiian shirt like playing with the games. Nobody plays. You turn on. You play player one like just occasionally. You'll get a new challenger. There's no one at player two.

But you're you're fighting a guy with like super, super skills. Yeah. And it's like Bloody Mary because if you, like, look, then it's like, you're, it's over. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, yeah, you're playing as Acoma, but like his eyes are bleeding. Yeah, yeah, you, yeah, comes in and he says, he looks at the camera and he says, fuck you. And then you, and then he beats you no matter what. Subscribe to Chaluminati.

Oh, my God. Patreon.com slash chelubidati pop. If I, if I do supernatural, I want to be, I want to be dead by aliens and haunt aliens and then travel in the ship and see the universe for the rest of it. probe to death and then like let me be part of the hybrid program I will fuck a bunch of aliens then die when my usefulness is no longer needed and they have what they need but then they don't know that

there's also ghosts and I start haunting them forever I feel like your wish for becoming a ghost can't involve you being abducted by aliens I said I said the sky that's higher than the sky that's way higher than the sky that's true actually you've got actually a point shit

I like the idea of the aliens having like ghost men in black who just hide evidence of your, your haunting. They're like, did you hear that? Oh, my God. Shut up, gleaming, glorpe, shut the fuck up. I want a friendly old lady, men in black. I wanted to just come to my house, be like, tell me all about it, dear, here's some tea.

The tea is drugged. It wipes my memory. Oh, just like a chill. Dude, or she's supernatural, whereas you're telling the story, she's taking it from you and you're forgetting it. I like it. I like it becomes part of her. Tell me a good heaven.

It's just like, you die. There's a comic or something there. I get this an afternoon with grandma. Yeah. Oh my God. What a great title. Somebody who's interested. Like you just go in a room and it's somebody who's interested in what you have to.

That's the most depressing dream I've ever heard, Alex. That's why I started to subscribe to your podcast. Alex. That's why I started the podcast because I had nobody to talk to about it. So I had to force people to be listening to me talk about this shit. You are loved. You know, you know, like, nah, but you know, like when you want to just like say a million, billion things about Doctor Who, you know what I mean?

Like when you just want to like, say something like info dumping my neurodivergent friend yeah you know when you just want to do that and like you're aware that you're just talking to no one like I feel like heaven would be like I can just talk about

the seventh doctor for like four hours straight and they're like oh my God that's so neat you know my heaven is going to be getting Terrence McKenna and Grant Morrison to have a conversation and I just get to listen did you become like the world's biggest

Grant Morrison fan in the last like three weeks. I'm not Grant Morrison and like he is. I am a huge fan of Grant Morrison as a person right now just because I love his ideology even if it's chaos. Like I don't say I believe in it, but I love how he fully embodies everything. But he seems the literal opposite side of the coin of Terrence McKenna. Yeah. Like that's what so.

And I would love to see the two of them talk because they both believe in the same thing in very different ways. And it's just a fascinating like I'd love to just listen to that conversation. I think they just start kissing. You know what I mean? There's a long, I don't even know what to call it, essay fiction, something that's just examining the history of British pop culture as like a chaos wizard battle between Alan Moore and Grand Morrison. And I keep meaning to read it. It's a perfect.

Grant Morrison actually practices chaos magic. So does Alan Moore. Yeah. You all know more comics than I do. Have you guys ever read Herbie Popnecker from the 60s, the Fat Fury? No. It's Alan Morris cites it as his favorite comic, which. which he might be doing just to be contrarian because he says a lot of wild stuff in his interviews.

But it's genuinely just a very entertaining comic. Like, it's just, this kid is drawn so round that he's like a circle. And he's just got these round glasses. And he just, he always looks out of breath. Oh, my God. Just this chill kid.

He's just like, yeah, I'm going to go over there. But like, he just walks through the air. Like, he'll just walk across the ocean to meet the queen or whatever. Yeah. And, like, everyone he meets is just like, you're the greatest person I've ever met. Like, women just throw themselves at it. The only people who don't realize that their son is God is his parents who were just like, that fat little piece of crap, I hate my kid. He's worthless.

And he's like, I don't need to feel bad about this because I'm functionally a God. Like, I can time travel. Like, he's just, he just has every ability. The picture of him on Wikipedia has a, like, text box next to him. He's flying. He's just walking over a wall as some, like, shirtless, like, islanders or, like, throwing spears at him. He's eating a lollipop. and it says it says make for the hills he's back history's most horrible hero a little fat nothing named herbie

i love him so much incredible he's the greatest little baby he just incredible i think there's order he goes back in time to the revolutionary war and george washington is like we're not going to make it herbie and he's like here's what you do chief that's awesome this is incredible oh i gotta i gotta see that i've got the invisible's omnibus on the way i'm very excited oh wow that's It's a hyper-sigil. This is a long time ago. This is from 1958. Holy shit.

Oh, wow. It's a fun. I, you know, it's, because everyone I've shown it to says he visually reads as an Asian kid who's been like abduct, uh,

not abducted, adopted by like a white family that don't respect him. Yeah. And I feel like if you're going to adapt it that, I don't know if that's too dark, but like it's definitely a thematically. He definitely, he definitely looks.

He has a look. Let's put it that way. He looks like, I've never seen the bowl cut that because his hair is darker than his parents if I remember right. He has like the little circular glasses that like Mickey Rooney wears when he's like that really racist

like Chinese guy in Breakfast of Tiffany's. Maybe that's it. He's got the like fucking like straight across bangs like he's wearing like a yarmulca like forward on his head almost like his little like somebody did like a literal bull cut but like with like a cast iron skillet more than a bowl. Yeah.

I can't tell if it's like subtext that we're projecting in but like I don't know. He's a very... I love him. Yeah. I love the name. For some reason, the latter half of it, it just becomes a superhero thing. I mean, he's still funny.

But, like, we have enough funny superheroes. I'm a lot less enamored of the second half, but it's... His dad is named Pinkus. Deadpool ruins funny superheroes in a lot of ways. Maybe that's it. Maybe that's it. Yeah, yeah. I think so.

I'm not speaking from no experience of reading comics. So don't believe anything I say. I just pull from Popul. I'm trying to remember. I think there's one where he... You know, Supernatural icon Herbie Popnecker.

I haven't just embarked on a complete digression. He's like fighting a champion boxer. The boxer is just terrified of him because he's like, that's Herbie. He's the greatest fighter in the world. What am I going to do?

That's awesome. Incredible. Incredible, like hilarious idea. Yeah. What the fuck? Like, where did that come from?

That's like a Tim and Eric sketch. I love that. I got a couple quick Queen Mary stories before we move to our last topic. Oh, yeah. So sorry. of the episode. No, I just, you know, we can talk about it.

I can just fucking spiral and talk about things for hours. Some really quick ones. There's one from October of 2024 from People Magazine, editor Julie Jordan, who spent a night aboard. Jordan and two friends who dubbed themselves the ghost moms, checked into B-deck near B-340 within minutes of lying down, a motion sensor they'd set by the door chirped with no one near it. A second sensor by the window went off later.

When Jordan waved her hand in front of it, She felt full body goosebumps. At dinner, a 20-year staffer told them about a child spirit, Jackie, that we talked about earlier. And then Jordan watched a small shadow move behind a locked, frosted glass door. Staff said the room had no other entrance. And on the gray ghost project tour, one friend heard a clear cough behind her near door 13, where the crewman died in 1966, though they thought they were alone. It's a pretty realistic account of, like, being haunted.

for like what it is like for such a big magazine so far like this is like very believable yeah yeah that's basically the article uh then there's one i got from reddit uh that's titled my name is not jim um this is from 2017 from reddit user uh charu has charuhas charuhas charuhas c h a r ou has uh this reddor was touring the queen mary with family and entered a quote unquote notoriously haunted state room that had been closed to lodging at the time so they kind of like snuck That was probably the one that you were talking about, right? Yeah. As the guide repeatedly addressed an entity by a specific name,

the O.P was suddenly overwhelmed by violent anger and a looping thought. My name is not Jim. The rage, nausea, and Disney's dizziness felt wholly alien to their normal temperament, and they left the room ahead of the group, and the sensation stopped immediately. Later, they concluded, quote, whatever lives in that room truly had a hold of me. Whoa. And the last story is from a Reddit user Love Cats 29.

This poster's father managed to the hotel operation back then. This happened in the early 90s and set the family on a daytime history ghost tour. At the first class pool, the OP sister and roommate both saw an older man with a white beard and navy clothing standing by a tiled column. He vanished the moment they looked and the guide said the area was restricted with no one else present. The group immediately walked the perimeter, including the dressing rooms and the exit route, where a person would have had to pass them and saw no one. That night, the father told them it was maintenance, quote, unquote, but years later admitted he had only said that to calm them.

Security had confirmed no one was down there during those hours that they were. Yeah, this is a little small, few stories. Yeah, pretty good. Decent little stories, little hauntings. But the last thing we're going to talk about is another famous place in L.A., none other than the Cecil Hotel. Oh, my God. Of course, the Cecil Hotel opened on Main Street in 1924 as a respectable just downtown hotel with a marble lobby, had stained glass windows, and like just marketed itself very well as where business travelers would head for the Spring Street Financial District.

The Depression undercut that plan. As downtown slipped and Skid Row expanded, the building adapted by getting cheaper. And by the 1960s, it had become a residential hotel for people with few other options. That's basically the frame that explains everything that came after. A place that was built for aspirational travel turned into an address where hard days were just concentrated into one place. The incidents people still recite don't need help from myth to sound grim either. Trust me. In 1962, a woman named Pauline Otten just jumped from an upper floor window and landed on a passerby, George Giannini, killing them both instantly.

It's fucking crazy. That poor person was just walking by. Two years later, the tenant everyone knew as Pigeon Goldie Osgood, because she fed birds at Pershing Square, was found murdered in her room. Someone was arrested that day and cleared later. And the case today remains unsolved. The building also picked up a pair of true crime footnotes that stuck to it. In the mid-1980s, Richard Ramirez, who we will.

I'm going, they will be a, uh, uh, the series, maybe this year that I will be doing on Richard Ramirez. If I didn't do Manson, I would have done Knight Stalker. I'm going to, yeah, Richard Ramirez is going to be a three or four-parter. I have so much I want to talk about with him. There's like, yeah, the Knight Stalker. Well, now I, as I'm about to ask, I'm realizing, one, I don't remember the actual name of it because I always think it's the Knight Stalker, but it's not. And two, it's simultaneously one of those things where I'm like, you've definitely talked about this, or this is definitely too silly for you to have talked about it.

The disembodied pair of pants that walks around North Hollywood. Oh, we talked about them. You have. Yeah, the Fresno night crawlers. That's it. The night crawler. That's it. Yeah.

No, that's not it. That's all you were thinking of. That was what I was thinking of. I just, when I, when Alex invited me on yesterday, I was in, in the car with my girlfriend who immediately said, you have to talk about the Fresno night crawlers. We did a whole t-shirt and poster about the Fresno night crawler. I'm so sorry. I missed it.

I'm excited. Yeah. They're a regular set of little guys. Yeah, they're regular, definitely. The, uh, yeah. So Richard Ramirez was. was a regular in the neighborhood, and according to people who worked there, stayed at the Cecil Hotel during his killings.

And in 1991, Austrian serial killer Jack Unterweger lodged there while on a journalism assignment and strangled three women during his Los Angeles stay. Was he like doing like a pizza tour, but of killing? Yeah, that's exactly what it was, actually. Wow. He wanted to go to every city. Why would you go to California? Yeah, yeah.

It's not a bad place to have pizza, I'll tell you. And these are all like Pizza here, but again, that's not California pizza. That's true. That's fair. That's fair. And these aren't any like ghost stories. This is just shit in police files, court proceedings. This is not ghost stories. That's so fucked up that a serial killer stayed there and so another serial killer stayed there. That's the kind of place like if you

believe in like that's so alive. Ibs of a place. Like if like you really like, are you sure that doesn't just mean the porter asks no questions? It could be that. It could be. But it's like this guy came to America while he was doing like a kill spree like Hannibal Lecter and visited L.A. to do some killing here while he was chilling and chose a famous hotel that a killer stayed at. You know what I mean? This is, that is crazy. The reputation the hotel carried in the 2000s was just earned. It tried to shed it in 2011 with a partial

rebrand as Stay on Maine. That didn't change the buildings. When we were doing a Wonderling, the game that I wrote for Switch and stuff. Great on that. The dudes, I think the dudes that, the dudes that like made the game are from Sweden and they were like here for E3 and we're going to like you know to go around and take some meetings and stuff and they're like well yeah we're staying at the stay on Maine and I was like guys guys

no no wrap it up I sent them like a couple YouTube videos and I was like you guys got to get out of there yeah that's not where you want to go is the place right next to the Grand Central Market no that would be on grand of course no it's pretty close it's I think I went swing dancing there once is that it has a lobby that you can walk It's a big yellow sign in the front.

I don't know if it's still there. The yellow sign is. I think so. I think so. They do. Maybe. It's on Lamed. Yeah.

It's a place you stay on Maine. Yeah. In late January, 2013, a 20 year old student from, oh, my gosh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I went swing dancing here. I didn't even know. There you go. Cochek was like $10.

What a nightmare. Yeah. Welcome to Los Angeles. I refuse to stay on Maine anymore. Yeah. In late January, 2013, a 21 year old student from British Columbia, Alisa Lam checked in. She vanished after a few days.

Two weeks later, the LAPD released an elevator surveillance clip, which Alex is covered on one of his past episodes, and I think internet mysteries, of her last known movements in the hotel, pressing multiple buttons, stepping in and out, moving her hands in the hallway. The video went viral on the internet, basically. Theories fractured, multiplied, kind of just caught fire,

an anonymous sleuth fixed on details, and a metal musician who had stayed at the hotel a year earlier became a target of harassment so heavy he later went public about the damage it did to his life. There was a Netflix on this. Yeah, none of that changed what the coroner wrote. When Lamb's body was found in a rooftop water tank on

February 19th, the autopsy ruled accidental drowning with bipolar disorder listed as a significant condition. There was no evidence of homicide or sexual assault. The elevator clip picked up its own rumors up to the fact. Some said the time code looked odd. Some said the video

had been edited. The hotel's then manager then said flatly that she turned the raw footage over to the police and did not alter it. The LA Times and other outlets that followed the case stuck to the same spine from the start, missing person, viral video, discovery tank, accidental drowning report. The riddle came from the internet, not from any of the reports. There are other stories that travel with the building because they fit the mood, even when documents don't like this one. You will hear that Elizabeth Short, the Black Dahlia, drank at the Cecil,

the night she disappeared in 1914, 47, for instance. Yeah, that claim appears in pop culture roundups. It's on ghost tours, but the last solid sighting places her at the Biltmore, not here. And it's fair to mark that one is popular, but unverified add on that attaches itself. Wherever a story like this feels like it belongs, like this is one of those things where like the hotel can kind of attract stories that aren't part of it because they would be so easily slid in to Cecil Hotel. Well, of course that would happen at the Cecil Hotel.

The Black Dolly Murder is one of the most gruesome, prolific murders that ever happened. And Cecil Hotel was already known for being a terrible fucking place at that time. After years of stalled renovation plans, the city made the Cecil a historical, a historic cultural monument in 2017 for the intact shell and its architect's work. It is really pretty. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And in 2021. I die, that's where I was, I've decided. That's where I'm going to go. That's your dream. That's not, you'd be such a, like, if you die at the Cecil Hotel, you become a cliche haunting. You don't even get your own story. It's going to be a bunch of day.

But when you die, like, the ghosts of all the other victims are like doing a swing dance, you know, and they're like playing the music and they're like, welcome to the, welcome to the party, babe. That's like the Friday. That's true. Yeah. You wouldn't be alone. Screwdriver. Yeah.

I'd be great. No, I barely know her. That was good. You know, I thought about it. I literally stopped myself. I'm like, I shouldn't, I shouldn't, but I should have. In 2021, the doors reopened, not as a hotel, but as an unusual, privately financed supportive housing project, about 600 single room units intended for formerly unhoused residents.

That project struggled to fill its units at first, then drew scrutiny for conditions and management. And in March 2024, the long ground lease was listed for sale and was kind of like a failed attempt. Today, it functions as now today, it functions as affordable housing with just a very haunted myth-heavy past, a building doing both social work while reporters still write about what it used to be. And you can be, if you want to be precise about what the Cecil Hotel is and isn't, it's easy to kind of keep the facts and dig through the details and find facts from folklore. I think that removes some of the mystery and magic from it. Because even some of them,

There's still questions about, well, why is this particular haunting happening? The vibes there are just heinous. Like, yes, it's just good. I don't, I don't know. What the fuck? What's that? Woo. It's Jackie.

I just saw, like, I just, in like the corner of my, my ceiling, it was just as bright, white, like, flickery, like, loop light that, not like a, like, a very bright one that just went, like, blinked weirdly and I looked and then it was gone I don't know where the fuck that would have reflected off of I'm assuming it's reflecting off of somebody it is cloudy outside

but there's still sun that's crazy and that additionally is not the first time I've seen that's actually the second time I've seen weird just light in my room one other time I've seen it

and it was like traveling up in between the cracks of my sound proof foam I went to the doctor I'm okay everybody don't worry I did go I've been to the doctor it's all good That's just weird. I don't know what the fuck that was.

Whoa. Yeah, I don't know. Weird. Seasel Hotel. Yeah, it's hauntinging me through the script at this point. There's a game that heavily was based on Eliza Lamb's death. That Yick game, I forget what it's actually called, but it's like Y2K, but it's like, it looks like Yick. A post-moder RPG.

The main character's name is Alex in that game, and it's fully voiced and it, like, scared the shit out of me. Oh, that's wild. he has a red beard in that game right that's right it's crazy yeah it was weird yeah yeah that would freak me out too regardless i'm like i get residuals surely where are they where are they check this game's my body you i want 27 cents story um and there's still other things we've covered in live shows that i could probably do a second episode of the people who were hunting for gold veins via

made-up technology and stuff like tunnels yeah so you Have you talked about the storm tunnel burglars? No, never. No, no, we've not talked about them. So last month, there was a chain of storm tunnel burglars downtown L.A., like I think just one jewelry store, but maybe there were two. Someone just tunneled into them from the storm tunnels. And those are, like, they're unmapped. Like, you have to be a city employee to have access to maps of it.

And there was like a string in the 80s, I want to say. And this is talked about in that same book about architecture and crime, whose name I sadly forget because there was a string of these very similar burglaries across the city. I think those were to bank vaults. But like, you can't drive in those storm tunnels. You need like a special city utility like golf cart. Yeah. And so the theory was always that it was a couple of city employees who sort of, yeah, yeah, worked together. And then and then they never, they never found them. They found, I think, I think they found a truck abandoned with some of the equipment they probably used. But no one ever figured out if they were. I choose to believe that this is. I choose to believe that this

is like this is like the the next century reboot of those crimes like the the next generation is like hey grandpa and the grandpa's like he's he's the mastermind he's like you kids get off your phone yeah yeah he's like taking them under his wing whoa uh there's a ton of stuff we can still talk about like the whole tunneling up from the ground is such a shredder move you know yeah it's really mollman hans moleman yeah very moleman honestly like it i heard it took a month to make the tunnel like it would have to take a really long time to do also which is kind of interesting yeah there's a whole other episode probably two or more that we could do of this but we are at two hour mark already and los angeles tells these stories to itself like over and over and they make you know there's little uh tourist attractions and stuff from this but whether it is aircraft or phantom aircraft maybe over santa monica our own rockets raining down on palm pommdale explaining weird lights over tapanga Violent Ghost in Culver City, Maritime Spirits in Long Beach, or the heavy history of just L.A. itself.

The arguments continue not because we don't know what happened, but because what happened never feels like enough explanation for how these places make us feel. Because in my mind, like I said, at the very beginning, Los Angeles, the sky participants, the buildings remember, L.A. itself is a character, and every story seems to carry the tone of that character with it. And that's where our episode ends.

That's a great write-up. It only gets weirder all month as L.A. month continues. And Abby, thank you so much for coming onto the show to be one of our Los Angeles, if you will. Yeah. It is an honor and a privilege. One more time for the people. If they want to check out Abby online or if they want to check out Abby in Scotland, where should they go? Well, if you look at abydent.com, because I finally set up a new website that's designed rather than what I used to use.

It really captures your aesthetic, too, I would say. Thank you. Oh, thank you. It's abidend.com. And that's got links to the ticket sales for Abedend, my favorite loser. My favorite loser, the show, I'll say it's slower at the Edinburgh Fringe going at week three of the Edinburgh Fringe, if you happen to be there. And there's just assorted other stuff that website completely do.

So do make friends and be nice to me or else. Delightful. you're 8 million years old you'll eventually find them and kill them yes we're off to go do a minisota over at patreon.com slash shilluminati pod if you are over or haven't checked out the Patreon swing it over we're only two tiers now

$5 ad free $15 video ad free poster rotten popcorn you get it all $15 all the extra stuff with all the fluff $5 is just the lean option with no ad we appreciate you guys supporting us there we'll be over there we'll be over the next to Minnesota we appreciate you we love you goodbye

that can't goodness dearest yes Anyway Me and my wife were sitting outside indulging on our porch one night enjoying ourselves I needed to go to the bathroom so I stepped back inside

and after a few moments I hear my wife go Holy shit get out here so I quickly dashed back outside she's looking up in the sky and I look up too and there's a perfect line of dozen lights

traveling across the sky We're going to be able to be. Thank you. Thank you.