Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 334: Mathas vs. The Warrens Part 2

Episode Date: January 25, 2026

Mathas tells the boys all about Ed and Loraine Warrens' big "cases" in part 2 of this multiparter.CHILLUMINATI is a weekly comedy podcast hosted by Mike Martin, Jesse Cox and Alex Faciane. Hold on to your tin-foil hats and traverse the realms of the mysterious, supernatural, spooky and sometimes truly horrible - and your third eye will never be the same!Subscribe to our Patreon to support us and for extra content like full video episodes, weekly Minisodes, exclusive art, and more at http://patreon.com/CHILLUMINATIPODThank you to our sponsors:This January, quit overspending on wireless with 50% off Unlimited premium wireless. Plans start at $15/month at www.mintmobile.com/chillMike Martin - http://www.youtube.com/@themoleculemindset Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - https://www.youtube.com/@StarWarsOldCanonBookClub/Editor: DeanCutty Producer: Hilde @ https://bsky.app/profile/heksen.bsky.social Show Art: Studio Melectro @ http://www.instagram.com/studio_melectro Logo Design: Shawn JPB @ https://twitter.com/JetpackBragginSHOW NOTES:The main source used in this episode is "The Demonologist: The Extraordinary Career of Ed and Lorraine Warren" by Gerald Brittle

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Chulamani podcast. Episode 33, as always, I'm one of your host, Mike Martin joined. I'm not going to call you the Ed and Lorraine Warren at this time. I'm just going to call you Jesse and Alice. Call us the Ed and Lorraine Warren of telling lies because that means we're truthful. Whoa. How about that?

I can't follow with that at all. How about that? Open your third eye, listeners. Wow. It's opened. Good job. Welcome back to the show. My third eyes, my butthole.

all right just picturing actually Hank Hill saying that is like really funny to me picturing Hank Hill just like like doing like some ayahuasca and just saying some insane shit the third child is within his house oh I didn't do ayahuasca this week I did do magical mycelium that was fun

what I wasn't aware you even going to do iwasca Is magical mycelium like a product? Is that like, is that like mochi weed gummies? Or is that like magical mycelium? Yeah, yeah. That sounds like a cartoon that would come on after gummy bears. When it's when it's legal, we'll make a company called magical mycelium. This is our, this is our brand deal for like a weed chocolate company, but they do now.

Their new line of magical mycelium chocolate. Don't they sell like mushroom based things already? It's no, it's not legal anywhere. It was legal for a little while in Colorado. Colorado, I think. What's the other one? But don't they sell like micro dose mushrooms? The other thing is hot.

The other thing is hot now. The, uh, cratom. Oh, but that's not, that's not a psychedelic. That's an opiate.

Yeah, but it's like over the, you can just, there's like, there's like, it's the same as the weed chocolate where, or as the mushroom chocolate where like the brands are all like really like, they look like they're,

you know, gonna sell you like some nice head headphones or some shit. But it's just like some kind of weird cratom like chocolate. or like water. I don't know. Like, it's all weird. I've never done anything other than weed and mushrooms,

but create them sound scary every time I've heard about it because it binds to the same shit that opioids does. So I'm just like, I'm good. I'm looking at it. They're selling stuff online that straight up just like there's an article that says Ohio C surgeon. So I could like mushroom products.

Maybe Ohio. it's legal? I don't know. I'm sure you can give them to people because they are therapeutic. I'm sure you can like prescribe them. At the same time, the amount of, the amount of notifications by the government that's like, don't take this. Right. Yeah.

The California Department of Public Health is like, don't do that. Maybe I'd trust California. Maybe. Of any, of, there's not a lot of state governments that I like, I'm like, oh, yeah, these guys don't are doing. Interesting. You can fund our future mushroom company at patreon.com slash cheluvonoddy pod. want to get in on the ground floor magical mycelium ink head on over there as we slowly transition the successful and with no impetus to change from our audience at all slowly transition

this entire operation into a food based uh a psychoactive mushroom food operation we ceased to be a podcast though if we had a shop and then the back was the setup for the podcast oh and that everyone could come in and like we'd be there hanging out and then they'd be like that's where the magic happens they'd be like some magic mushrooms are we like ha ha ha ha you guys and it'd be great to me like a like a place like that where you just do drugs and then we're there would be great you know what I'm saying sounds like a lot of like stress and responsibility for us if people are coming to our place to also do the drugs I would be a silent partner I would show up through the podcast and then I just use your hands clean you're in the through the back door out to the back door no

never sees you. I'm getting too close to this. I can't. I get it. It's like, wait, Jesse, this is your job.

No, no, no, like my other one. Yeah. Oh, right. Anyway,

that joke is about going to Patreon and supporting us there at patreon. com slash Timelelipod because we like to make the show and we want to keep making it. We don't want to make it slowly transition into a mushroom chocolate company. That's not actually our goal. So if you want to stop us from transitioning to a mushroom chocolate company, go ahead and subscribe.

go ahead and subscribe to our Patreon because that'll keep us in the podcasting business where we belong. We're seeingable future. Yes. Right where we belong. Exactly our niche. Oh, boys, I'm excited. We can just jump into it if you're ready because it's time to jump back into

and Lorraine Warren their lives part two. The amount of gleeful haters, the amount of gleeful haters that have appeared. I was informed. Yeah, it's just great because I love, I love that people are hungry for liars to, be dragged out into the light and humiliated. That's a good vibe.

I agree. Last episode, we talked, I kind of gave you basically like the sales pitch of who the Warrens were their general history coming up as like weird painters trying to sell their paintings for either money or hauntary information is that they had the idea that they would. I guess actually. And a guy have hobbies. Like actually they do paint the house, right? They do.

Yeah. They actually painted artistically across the street. Yeah, they do make the game. But the idea that that was their like plan is like so it's like it's like literally like a Ultima. Like it's like literally like a weird puzzle salt. Like I don't know why that's the thing that they like why not just go up to the door and say, hey, I'm a I'm a anything and then go wait a minute. I am a psychic also.

I'm getting some kind of like what is it about painting the house? It's just that they had a painting skill that they were exploiting. They had the spirit of a con artist in them from. the very beginning. I just, even as a con artist, I was trying to see the logic of being like, I picture this. We're out there. We're painting their house.

It's 1950s. So maybe that's just like somewhat more acceptable back then. No, I don't think it's like a con. I feel like it's they needed an inn and they didn't know how to get an end. Like what do you say? You can't walk up to someone and be like, your house is haunted. Let me inside. So they, the only other option.

They also would try to sell the painting to them for money as well. Oh, sure. for their services. No, I like, I get it. The only other option, of course, besides asking is to stand outside. They're like, okay, picture this. Here's the plan. We're out there. We're painting the house. And she's like, why? And he's like, don't worry about that. Like, what do you do when you see somebody painting your house? And she's like, I don't know. And he's like, go outside and talk to them, right? That's very much at energy. Think about it. Actually add energy right there. More so than Hank Hill.

It's like, think about it. got a scrap to get by, but I feel like eventually that scrap turns into a grift. But early on, I feel like they genuinely believe they were called by God to do this. And we're going to make that point even more so again today, I think. Okay. Agreed. That's even sadder. That's even sadder if that's true.

If that's what they thought and this is where they ended up, this is like, they failed. They like fell to the devil and lost. I don't, I don't think so. I think in their minds, they think no matter what. If you're doing it in the name of the, this is like Inquisition shit or the Crusades. If you're doing it in the name of the Lord, it's cool. You can lie, you can cheat, you can kill, you can do whatever. Because you're doing it for Jesus.

You're doing it for God. You're doing it for Mary. You're doing it for the whole thing. It's fine. If it gets people in church, then it doesn't matter. The best Spider-Man villains. The best Spider-Man villains and Batman villains are the ones that don't know their villains, guys. We are the reader.

But we the reader, no. We the reader can see. Yes. How many people think that, like, how many people who hear this podcast think we are the villains and don't know it? I don't even know what that could. I do know it. I don't even know what that could mean at this point. Like, I don't know what evil we're unleashing upon the world by doing this.

It's the occasional realization that there's somebody that pops in is like, their leftists, I can't listen to this shit. That's fine. That's okay. Those are the ones who thinks we're the villains. Thanks to stop in by. That's just somebody with bad listening coverage. I don't know where you thought you were if you don't realize that we're three lefters

having a podcast for eight years. I don't know what you think. So last week, Ed Lorraine Warren, we talked about that. We talked about their movie counterparts, Patrick Wilson, Vera Farmiga, who do not look anything like the actual. Lovely people. They're so hot. We also read the intro to the book that Vera Farmiga wrote, who said she was horrified

reading the book. She only felt safe reading it on a plane, if you remember correctly. That book's terrifying. And we ended with, I'd say the very first famous case, the Annabelle case, the Annabelle the doll, which we also had done an episode on partially with Annabelle. We did the Annabelle and Robert the doll like duo pair episode way back in the day. I remember. So that brings us to current, 1950s, 60s for them was like the club grind, like the clubbing days or like grinding it out in local cemetery days. This is like them going out and having a great time.

They're out. They're grinding. Yep. Climbing there and clubbing. you know and club in and grind in fuck like dirty animals after they painted houses and went home i don't think they fucked like dirty animals i think they fucked like a like a like a like the michelin man and a fucking and a fucking four brooms had sex to each other

grigorian chants in the background yeah i think it was probably like yeah unfortunately we're going to end up learning that ed is a pervert especially in the next episode who had an underage girl with them most of this time. That doesn't make me a pervert. What do you mean most of this time? Most of the time. Not super early in the career, but somewhere in the mid early career, they brought an assistant that was also from a troubled home and a underage girl who had them living

with them and very much was a victim, which is where, like, that's all the next episode, the last episode is the reality of Ed and Lorraine Warren and what garbage human beings beyond car honors they were. Ed, likely a sex offender and Lorraine likely and not only just okay with it, but potentially involved. Jesus. That's what I'm talking like. I'm going to, these fuckers suck. These fuckers suck. But for now, we got one more middling episode to talk about, not middling equality, but that middle point.

Yeah. Not trying to shit on my own work here. Before you reveal that Luke and the emperor and Darth Vader and Han and Leah were all pedophiles. Yeah, exactly. Right. Jesus Christ. Thank you to Mint Mobile for sponsoring today's episode. And now that the holidays are over, you might be feeling like you've got a big spending hangover.

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upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, $100 for $1,000, $1,000 for six months, $100, $180 for 12 month plan taxes and fees extra initial plan term only 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy capable device required availability speed and coverage varies cement mobile dot com thank you again to mitt mobile for sponsoring today's episode so for them now we're moving into the 19 to late 1960s 1970s and we'll kind of mess around in the early 80s in this episode and this is like i would consider the era of their greatest hits these are the cases that made had them make time magazine they had best selling books out of these cases and these are the cases that spawned. Are they the great American, are they the great American story? Are they a perfect, are they a perfect like mapping of like decades and time and everything like into a perfect sort of like mapped two person simulacrum for the entire journey of America's soul? I agree that these are like, you know, there's the idealized American dream and then

the American dream as it is. Yeah. them. Yeah, they, but it started off exceptional. It started off like hopeful. It sounds like it started off pretty earnest. Innocent, esh, earnest, maybe. Ernest. I still, I still can't wrap my mind around why they thought that the best first step of ghost hunting in someone's house was painting a picture of their house on the street in front of the house. I'm not, not going to let that go. But that doesn't seem like something that you would even do in the first place. a grift. That seems like

your first little weird, like, ritualistic step where you're, like, trying to capture something or get something or do something. Like, you're kind of like, I don't know, like, people who stand outside and smoke in, like, alleyways and they, like, feel it. They're feeling themselves. You know what I mean? Like, there's some element of like

self-validation from being like these weird eccentrics that are like, you look out your window and you're like, what are those two strange weirdos doing, painting the house? I don't know. I don't know. I'm trying to. empathize. I'm trying to empathize with them. It just is so weird. It's just so weird. Today, though, as we move into today's like focus, we're going to be looking at three, I would consider there are three major cases outside of Annabelle. Obviously, the next one up,

Amityville, which we all did, that was our very first episode on. So we'll do, we'll go quickly go over Amityville a bit. The Enfield Poultergeist, which we did a full episode on, but the Warren's claim to be much more involved than they actually were. We'll talk about that. And then the, the one where the movie, one of the conjuring movies was made off, the devil made me do it, which is the story of a man who committed murder and then blamed possession by Satan.

And they even went to court for it and tried to get it like seen in court that Satan and demons made him do it. That's what's what's in for today. The other thing I do, we're going to open up with though, is to have you realize how rich these guys got right at this time,

right after Annabelle, right as more really right after Amity, Evil is their biggest break because these guys got super rich, super quickly. And in between each investigation, there's still a daily life that and Lorraine Warren are living between the big investigations. And this is where I was saying slightly earlier, I don't really fully believe that the Warren still didn't truly believe things were actually happening, that they were warriors for God. Because even in between their major cases and their movies and their books, they never really

turned off their paranormal hunting, tuning fork, as it were, like Black Bolt. They saw demons in everything. Like, it wasn't just haunted houses and shit. Like, we're talking grocery stores, movie theaters, the line at the pharmacy. And if you, like, spend enough time like I did reading Ed Warren's own fucking words and going through the demonologist in the 1980 biography that he co-authored with Gerald Brittle, by the way, is the other author of the book. You start to realize that Ed Warren didn't just like investigate it.

He lived through the supernatural like he was the star. He lived his life like he was the sole warrior in a world of Satan and he was here to save everybody. Every single day was a spiritual battle for Ed. Every stranger he saw, he saw as a potential vessel. He's Michael Scarn. He's Michael Scarn, dude. Yeah, he's on Facebook. He's straight up Michael Scarn.

He's like he's like, this is this. The whole thing is like a LARP kind of for him, but he accidentally got really rich. Right. Yes. It kind of, I think you're right. You know when you walk out of a movie theater after a heist movie or like a government like op movie where all the good guys pull off like a sick op and they like get out real quick and you walk out in the music's playing and you feel all you're like d. Yeah. Okay.

You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. Yes. Okay. That is Ed. Except actually Ed. Yeah. Yeah.

Actually Ed. Yeah. Not Patrick Wilson. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, agreed. He lived inside his head where he was the movie star for everything. In every photograph he claimed was evidence of ghost to him was proof that hell was real and he needed to get people in church so that they could be saved by God. I don't think he realized that he didn't believe it and that he was using it as like a tool for himself.

Maybe, man, there's an anecdotal story though that kind of goes along to show how serious Ed was. This is in the 1970s before digital cameras were a thing. So you couldn't just take a picture back then for those who were young. You could not take a picture and like preview it on your device in any sort of way. So if you took a picture for Ed of what he thought might have been a ghost, you then had to take your film, physically drive it out to the drugstore, hand your film canister to some likely some kid behind the counter and wait however long, sometimes days while they ran it through the machine.

You're doing God's work, Mr. Warren. The amount, I must stress, for those who did not live through this time, the amount of genuinely awful photos you would get. You didn't get a seal. You didn't get them. Yeah. You wouldn't know until you got them back.

And then you'd open that little package up and you look in and you'd be like, half of these are trash. Dude, seriously. And shout out. So this story comes from another podcast in the podcast sphere within our realm. last podcast on the left where just one of the listeners' dads apparently owned the pharmacy in question in the story. And apparently in the 1970s, when he showed up, he would bring his films and then would

wait around in the store for the film to be developed, sometimes asking if he could go behind the counter to help. And then when the film was developed, he'd go through the photos right then and there with the person who developed them giddy as hell going through them. So obnoxious. just being like pointing at a photo and being like this here right here yep that's a spirit that's a globule real this is real i'm telling you exactly what it was supposed to be like there's no way to verify that this story is real i don't know the individual who even handed that story in um but it doesn't

it doesn't feel it doesn't feel like okay this is like so so subtle what i'm saying but it doesn't feel like a scientist like discovering a new bug or something like that it feels like just like a little child it feels like what happens when like Trump gets a real win and then suddenly these people who have to like eat shit all the time

for this guy being like shitty he does one good thing and then they're like see you know what I mean and I feel like I feel like something about being a weird ghost guy and sort of like getting the evidence of the ghost and like

sort of like getting to see it even if it's not actually scientific evidence even if that part doesn't really matter to him because it seems like what you're saying is he just sees it and he's like yep he apparently even had a mic a magnifying glass that he would bring with him and he whip it out and look at the photos it's about it's about it's about validating his own identity as john constantine of the south or whatever like of the midwest like it's like new england brother well i'm just i'm i'm i'm stuck on hank hill but i know yeah i know i got a you know this is connecticut yeah i'm stuck on hank hill but he's, you know, he's turning himself into like a, he's, it's all a LARP.

It's what I'm saying. He's like, he's getting the evidence not because he's like, got to prove that ghosts are real for the world. He's doing it because he's got to prove that he's a man, kind of. Approve to himself. I mean, I think that's one of the reasons that if this story is real, like he would show it off to like whoever was working back there because he could have gone home and went through them and been satisfied with whatever he saw.

But no, he needed an audience there to look through the photos with him so he could point and say things like, yep, that right there. That's a diabolical entity. Like if he wanted everybody. to just see it and understand it, it wouldn't be so rich. Right. I know.

Yes, correct. And, you know, I can't imagine being one of the fucking technician back there having to endured at just pointing at photos. That's also another part of this is that it's absolutely like, if Johnny Depp showed up in real life and he wasn't famous and you had to serve him dinner and he was like,

hello, yes. You know, like, you're like, but isn't that, but like community wise, you said last episode that in this,

town he was in, he everyone knew who they were. So like, you would imagine that when he goes in there, the kid might actually be really impressed and excited to see him. They might have been. Honestly, yes. Maybe especially at that time, you know, this is before anybody really is suspecting them of being major grifters. I'm sure there are people who would suspect them. Like, he's a different time. Yeah, people could really be taken in by. I mean, like, look, I know plenty of people we all do who are. are not the nicest, but when they go to like a convention or whatever, people are taken in by, you know, of course, but I would say with people like that, the mental illness is like so on display as somebody who knows those people personally that it's crazy. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, if you don't know them outside of that public appearance or what have you, you see them as you want, they want to be seen. Right. And those people oftentimes perfect that. aspect of their life

where in private they're one way but in public they're another way and you get watching it in real time is an absolute mind trip you're like it makes you just so grossed out it's so nasty dude and you see it also like I work with a lot of like

really rich people at companies that are like way richer than me by a lot a lot sometimes you deal with like stuff that I and just the way that people act like the way that you can't just like go to the bathroom next to them in a in a public bathroom or like order food from them the same way that you order from someone else and they let you know that you know

that's so weird that it's so gross anyway fucking ed let's go back to ed real quick uh so yeah oh the other part i was going to say too is like when it comes to these photos too it's very clear that he's going in already he's not analyzing it right he already has his own bias and he's more looking for what he's already ready to see, ghosts and demons in the photos, rather than being like, oh, that's an overflash and over exposure or a piece of dust. No, every photograph for him was like a Rorschach test and it always came back. It was a fucking demon to him. And in the book, the demonologist, Ed actually addresses this directly. And he says, I'm paraphrasing a little bit here, but he says that, you know, scientists show up with their stopwatches and litmus paper and find

nothing, whether it being photographs or ghost hunting, because the reason would be the demonic spirit will not reveal itself to someone who poses no threat. But if you go in with religious objects and spiritual intent, the spirit will respond to that challenge. There's something quite interesting about this when you think about the way people, like, Ed, for instance, can say, I see these spirits, I see these things. But then you, you're just, you know, And we can say, oh, that's because he wants to see them. But the idea that then he can flip it back on us and say, scientists don't see spirits because all they're looking for is scientific explanations, not spiritual. And that's why they don't perceive the true evil.

And like, you can do it. And that's, oh, I hate, it makes me crazy. It happens so frequently in life. But I'm just like, it's pretty ironic that you said a Rorschach test. because if you think about Roorshack, the superhero. Yeah. You know, everybody's free to interpret things however they want, especially art, right? But I'll tell you what, if you think Roorshack is cool, if you think that if you think that Roorshack is cool, you might not agree with the guy who wrote Roershack.

You know what I mean? Yes. And I think I think Edward, I think Ed Warren has the same thing where it's like at this point, those movies are like a bunch of people. that think that Roershack is cool and for his own sake. Because they want to be because they, because it's just, it's just, it's like what they want to see.

They want to be a cool ghost. They want ghost hunting to be simple. They want it to be straightforward like that. They don't want you, when you, everything that we've looked at in the show, when we go down to it, it's like,

the answer is that like, actually the, it probably lies within our own minds. And the, and the reason it's so hard to like, you know, figure anything. out is because it's like filtered through our own like receivers which are as valid as each other.

But sure when people don't align along that like sort of like thought and they become more like invested in like the rules like the lore, the like you know, whatever, that's when you, that's when you start to, that's when you start to forget and just it doesn't seem like that big of a deal, but not being like, let's be scientific with these photos is like, I don't even understand why you would be interested in what he has to say at that. Right. I think you're completely right. And for him, right, like to him, if the skeptics find nothing, demons are hiding.

If Ed finds something, it's because the demons fear his holiness. And so either way, not dude, his holy nuts. And either way, Ed wins. No, those were demonic nuts. We'll learn later. My holy nuts. And this is a pattern. Cashew, macadamia,

almond. Right. That's a lot of nut. Pea. You say a bee? Yeah, peanut. Bean. Pee.

I don't need to call them nut. It's in the name. The reason I bring this up, though, is it's because it's a pattern we're going to see again and again today. Ed Warren kind of built a worldview where every piece of evidence. evidence confirmed his belief and every absence of evidence also confirmed his beliefs. And he didn't just apply this to photographs. He applied it to people too. There's a story. And Lorraine loved to tell on the talk show circuit back when they were doing it. It supposedly happened during a trip to New York City in the mid-1970s. They were there to appear on TV.

And by this point, they were kind of in the middle of becoming media darlings. And they were walking through Manhattan and they claimed they were walking down down an alley. They're in this alley supposedly and what they see is a homeless man. He's lying under a pile of garbage. Ed described him as somewhere between 30 and 65 years old. Okay. A nice 35 year spread to, you know, really. Listen, what year was it?

1970s, the mid-70s. It might have been quite rough out there. He might have looked. That guy would look like a chimney sweep under there. 30-year-old homeless guys? I mean, yeah, that's possible. Yeah. He says, Ed says, the man was covered in soars, and Ed claimed that rats were chewing on his toes when he approached.

Now, what the fuck? Now that sounds like a little like embellishment, but okay. He was like, what's up, man? How you doing? He's like, what's up? What's up? Obviously, if this is true and you and I saw that, holy shit, it'd be. like a horrifying, sad tragedy

of an experience to see a human being like that, someone who's suffering from poverty, maybe addiction, mental illness, someone that just needs help. But Ed Warren saw something different. He claimed that as he stared at the man, the man's face began to change.

He said the man looked up at him with a perverse sneer, quote unquote, and an inhuman look of delirium. Ed didn't see a man who needed a meal or bed, health care, medical care, cops, any sort of hand, money, you know, anything that can help this man. No, he saw, like we talked about last week, a vessel for something that was in the infestation,

oppression, or even possession stage at this point. And then, and this is the part that, one of the parts that gets me, they see this, and then they just keep walking. Why do we see it? In the 70s, it's just a story they tell on the circuits. They don't say any specific day. We saw this man who had. sores and his toes are being chewed on his face contorted it had a sneer it looked inhuman and then

we left and then they walked away that's the story that's the story that johnn carson was like and then what happened what's the end of the story i'm sorry i don't know what you're talking about that's where it's the end of the story that's it they just left this man if ed is to be believed who i'd also believe was literally possessed by an infernal spirit he failed as an exorcist he just was like, I'm going to let the spirit. You know what? I'm going to let him alone. Right.

It's New York. Dude. Yeah, I can do no good here. You live and you learn. It's not a nut. Yes. An almond is not a nut. That's the thing.

Like into them, their entire world view was this simple to them, right? Everything bad would like come from poverty to sickness to mental illness, you name it, was not a symptom of a broken system and society need. help it was spiritual and demonic in nature and if it's spiritual it's not your responsibility to fix i mean meaning him you just is recognize the demon is there and protect yourself because again remember the other big part of ed's beliefs demon possession isn't you're not a victim of that the demon possessing is three cents the law so does that mean like better you than me like in a weird way like i guess uh like what the hell kind of holy one

warrior is that let's like fucking cock up poopoo shit no dude remember in the Bible when Jesus saw a demon was like nah he was like I will not save you I am white and I am leaving I am white with baby blue eyes and long brown hair

I have to go flicked his blonde hair I have a lot going on right now I'll see you guys later holler at your boy bye I have a date with Mary later I got to save me Jesus no thank you

No. Goodbye. Thank you for your service. Thoughts and prayers. My Uber is waiting. Yeah. I have to go. So with that in mind and that framework of how he sees the world locked in,

we're going to Long Island. What? Because we're heading to. We're moving to Amityville, baby. And according to Ed, this case tried to kill him before he even stepped foot in the house. He claims that weeks before they even got the call to go. go to Amityville. He was sitting in his office and suddenly suffered a massive heart attack.

He collapsed and rushed to the hospital, but the doctors, they couldn't find anything wrong. No blockage, no damage. And Ed told Lorraine, quote, this isn't medical. This is spiritual. Do we have confirmed doctors said this happened? Do you think we have confirmed doctors that said this happened? All right. Did he have a heart attack?

Or is this just a story he told? This is just like an anecdote. This particularly is a story he told. There's no evidence that I could dig up anyway. I didn't go digging super deep. But there was no like easily available evidence. What dude needs to kick some rocks, bro. And if he did have a heart attack, there is no way in hell.

He said to Lorraine saying, this isn't medical. This is spiritual. Something big is coming. And it just took a shot at me, which is the quote verbatim from his book. Is that in the movie? No, it's in the book, demonologist. Something. Sure.

Can you imagine the movie. the movie if like I haven't seen the movie to be fair For me it's like over him on the bed And he's like They're they're gone in former baby Something took a shot of me Lorraine Oh right

Right the movie Different people They don't want me here She's like What are we gonna do? She like kisses him on the forehead And he's like Is it set in the past

In the movies Yes Okay The Conjuring movie films It's not like They're in a cyber truck or something No, no, that would be fucking phenomenal if it was. So according to, they would, though.

You know, we all know they would. They would have a cybercuit. What can I say? It would be like, or Elon and what he's trying to do? It would be like custom decals on the sides that are like really poorly applied that are like textures that are like low res with like text with like shadow on it. And it says like ghost under slash painter.

I see so many cyber trucks out here. And I, I am waiting because I feel like it's not impossible. that I'm going to see a cyber truck with a bumper sticker. I saw on a different truck once that said princess to an oil king. That's like the most Texas thing that you've ever. What's going to? Yep. Yeah.

That's, what's going on? It was a pink, it was like a pink SUV and it had one bumper sticker on the back. And it just said, Princess to an oil king. That is. I don't know about that.

But I would love to see that on a cyber truck. I think I would just enjoy that. So Ed, if this happened, said this was a warning shot from hell. So now it's 1976, baby. A heart attack was a warning shot from hell, dude, from hell. That seems like a shot, like just a, it seems like a shot. But again, we can't confirm that it actually happened.

You're telling me that there's no doctor anything that said this actually occurred. No, and again, we're mostly using just so weak for this episode anyway. But, yeah, I like, no. That's so weak, dude. Edit this out, Dean. Have a heart. Now I'm curious. Did that actually happen?

Definitely edited out, though. He, he, as expected, the man suffered from many heart issues his whole life. He had multiple heart attacks through his life. Okay. So, all right. It's, it's, you know, he may have actually had a heart attack, whether he said that quote to Lorraine, though, and thought it was a warning shot from Amityville and the, the doors from hell itself.

I am not entirely sure. I'm satisfied with that answer. Okay, 1976 is where we're at. You know, this is where Amityville really, really begins. In a village with the name Amityville, Latin for friendly town, this is where the horror story we talked about in episode one starts taking shape. The house is on 112 Ocean Avenue, Dutch colonial home, three stories. You know, those distinct, so distinct from movie posters,

quarter round windows at the top floor that look like kind of like a half opened eye in a lot of ways very very spooky it's iconic image at this point now it is the i would even go out to say it is the haunted house image when 100% if someone says haunted house and 100% they'd like even if you look at like other movies uh that same like like Halloween and all that stuff they all go like big white house red door like the the sort of look yeah yeah the current owners actually modeled the house specifically to stop tourists from showing up because it was being photographed. Dude, that's what they had to do with the tape mansion, too. They like moved it so that the address would change.

You know what I mean? But we're rolling back to November 13th and we're going to go over the Amityville story again, not nearly as in depth as we did episode one, but it has been almost eight years to the day since Amityville. So how about we just refresh some memories? Eight years to the day. Yeah, dude. Next, we're about three weeks out from eight years.

No, we're not far. wrong with us. What are we doing here? How do we do this? What do you mean? Do you not love learning about serial killers, ghosts, aliens every single week and I do. I just can't believe it's been eight fucking years. I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess there's like a time scrunch in the middle that, that we all, yeah. The first two, there's also the first two years where we did it irregularly in like not, sometimes there were months where we didn't do an episode. So like, you know, it is what it is. Uh, so November 13th, 1974, a Wednesday night, 6th, 3rd. 30 in the evening, a 23-year-old man named Ronald Butch de Feo Jr. burst into a bar called

Henry's in the village of Amityville. He was panicked and screaming that someone had killed his family. A group of men from the bar followed him home, and what they found would eventually make national news. Six bodies, Butch's father, Ronald Sr., age 43, his mother, Louise, age 42, his siblings, Dawn 18, Allison 13 and Mark 12, and John Madison. Matthew 9. All of them shot with a 35 caliber Marlin lever action rifle. All of them face down in their beds. And this is the detail that has haunted investigators for even to the up to this day. How did nobody wake up? Everybody was in their beds face down. No signs of blood or struggle or any of that stuff. They were all in bed. Nobody seemed to get up. A Marlin rifle is not a quiet weapon. It's not

suppressed. We even talked about that in the first episode because Alex made the demon a demon silencer joke that got our first animated bit made back in the day. It's crazy that our history is now becoming part of the Warren episode. Like now we've been around for almost a decade. And so now the fact that we've investigated shit is coming back around into our lore. This is why though, like I love being like, well, we can't do X, Y, and Z until we do A, B, and C. because when we do that, I want to be able to reference,

you know, things that we've done. Right. Yeah, but just years ago. Eight years ago, it would have, but like firing this rifle

would have sounded like a fucking, like a rifle going off in the house, loud as hell. And Butch defeo went room to room. He had to reload. The whole process took time. But there were no signs of struggle, no defensive wounds,

no evidence that anyone tried to run or hide. Everyone was found in the exact same position face down as if sleeping peacefully through their own murders. Some theories suggest Defeo didn't act alone, that his sister Dawn may have helped him before becoming a victim or self. Some suggest that the family was drug, though the medical examiner found no definitive evidence of sedative. Some suggest the family was simply that deep asleep

or that the first shots killed them before they could react. And a thought, a little thought experiment. How many times have you ever woken up from a loud bang that you didn't recognize, but you didn't get up to go investigate it, you were just listening for a minute and if nothing happened right away, you went back to sleep. Frequently.

Right about go back to sleep in the case. How many people? Four, six. So boom. What the hell was that? What the fuck was that? Right. Boom.

Oh, shake house. Oh, that? Okay. One noise. There's been time where I've heard like a bam. And I've woken up and like,

huh? But if it was like four, five booms in a row, I'd be like, no. But I might not move anyway. Yeah. I would. If his dad came in and was like, hey. And then I was like, I'd be like, what happened?

And then he was like, boom. You know what I mean? Like, yeah. Well, there's also the theory that maybe some people did get up like the kids because I'm assuming he shot the parents first. Put him back. As the kids got up to check, he'd be like, go back to bed. It's fine. I'm just dropped something or whatever.

You know what I mean? So who knows? We don't, we will. And that's the other thing is that's why so many theories fill it. because we will never, ever know. But then there's the explanation Defeo himself offered. He claimed demonic voices told him to do it. And long story short, the jury didn't buy it.

Butch Defeo was convicted on six counts of second degree murder and sentenced to six consecutive sentences of 25 years to life. He died in prison in 2021, which is funny because when we did our episode, he was life on Amityville. He was still alive. Wow. He was served until 2021 until he died. Is Tommy karate dead?

I do not think so. Oh my God. Oh my God. I need to check because if he listens to our episodes, I could die. Tommy Karate is still alive, question mark? I like to think that he got a good laugh. He's still alive? I like to think he got a good laugh out of it if he listened.

I hope so. Tommy? I don't even know these two. I don't know who these guys are. Never been in my life. His life sentence only happened like in 2017. Yeah, well, a year before. We did our show before we started the show.

So you waited until he was in, I don't, Tommy, I don't even know these dudes. I know you got friends to the outside. Oh, no, that was when he was moved to a new place. I'm sorry. Oh, okay. Yeah, no. No, yeah, no, you've been in jail for a long time because I remember the last episode. It was like a 1970s like wrestle on the street where like they were chasing each other down.

This is crazy. I know. I know. So, anyway, you got sentenced to a bunch of time and he died in jail. But the idea that something evil lived in that house had already been planted. and it was about to bloom into something worth a whole fucking lot of money. December 1975, just a year after the murders, the house on 112 Ocean Ave had been sitting on the market for a bit. It was difficult to sell for obvious reasons, but the price kept dropping.

And eventually, how much do you think this house sold for? I just want to know what you think this house went for back in 1975. Where is it? After the murders, after the murders, 1975. Long Island. Oh, Long Island. $67,000. $25,000.

Okay. Jesse's the closest, dropped to around $80,000. Long Island is, has always been that part of New York. It's nice. Yeah, but even back,

like, this was a cheap price because this was a waterfront property on Long Island with a boat house, a swimming pool. The average home price of Long Island in 1975 was around $45,000. So this was still on the,

expensive side of 1975. This was prime real estate and some people out there say it should have been around 150,000 if the murders didn't take place in it, you know, and all that stuff. So 80,000 was a steal, but

it came with strings attached. George and Kathy Lutz were a young couple. George was 28 and Kathy was 29 at the time and they had five kids between them from previous marriages. They needed the space and here was a beautiful Dutch colonial with room to spare at a price they could almost afford.

They claimed the history just didn't bother them. They'd bother them so little, in fact, that they reportedly bought some of the Defeo family furniture as part of the deal with this house. That's weird. That'd be like if you got an apartment that someone was murdered in and you're like, but the sofa. We get the blood stains out of the sofa, honey. It's just lovely.

Like that's weird. That is weird. I agree. I agree. And they moved in on December 18th, 1975, ready for their fresh start, a new blended family, and a beautiful home they could never have afforded otherwise.

And they lasted exactly 28 days. The story the Lutz is told, which became the book, the Amityville Horror by Jay Anson, which was published in 1977, just two years after they moved in, is kind of a greatest hits compilation of every heart.

haunted house trope that existed in the 70s. It started before they even finished unpacking. So when they moved in, they asked a local priest, Father Ralph Picararo, Pekararo, there we go, to come bless the house on the day they moved in. And according to the legend, when Father Pekararo entered the sewing room on the second floor, the room where the two youngest of Faeo boys had been killed

and flicked holy water into the air, he heard a voice, a disembodied, masculine voice screaming a soul. single phrase, get out. Because of course, is it a haunted house without it? That's literally a Eddie Murphy joke, by the way. Oh, that's a shame. We got to go.

Oh, sorry. Okay, well, I guess we got to leave. Okay, goodbye. Because that's what you should do. According to legend, the priest left the house after that. He didn't tell the Lutz's what he'd heard, at least not immediately, but he called them later after he left the house and got to safety and warned them, hey, just don't use that room. just ignore the sew.

Just don't use the sewing room. That's the only one. And that part always kind of like gets me that the priest literally hears a demon yell get out. And he's like, not don't leave. Not I'm going to get better help. But I'm going to leave and then call you and let you know like, hey. What is the deal? What is the deal with that, by the way?

Like if you're in the clergy and you're listening to this show, okay? I just want to know. Like, is there like how seriously do you take the possible presence of a demon? Like if you if you were in the clergy and listen to the show, Versal, shout-ups to you. I would love to like talk. Free shout-outs to God for us, please.

I just want to know. I just want to know like, do you understand what I'm asking? Like, if you are a priest. What is the process that you go through after this happens? If you're like a Catholic priest or something like that and you detect the presence, if you believe yourself to be in the presence of a demon, how serious is that?

from my how scared should you be? How dangerous is that? I don't know the gravite, like, I've seen, you know, that Russell Crowe movie

where it's, it goes all the way up to the top. Dragon Age Inquisition, yeah. Yeah, I've seen a lot of things like that, but like, I don't know,

like, in, it's so weird to say, like, in rationally minded Catholics, like, how scared should you be of a demon? Interesting question to me.

Yeah, that's actually a phenomenal question. because as a Catholic who was just a Catholic who was just a Catholic with the church, very scared. Everything is scary and guilt written. But as a priest, that's what I mean. That's what I mean. Like I know a lot of Christians. I grew up Catholic myself.

And I know even to this day, a lot of my friends, like when we had Kurt on recently, he was talking about how he was like when he was young, he was like afraid of demons. Like until he was like in his 20s or 30. Maybe not. Maybe even today. Also, general question for any priests listening. why is it the like Catholics and like Baptists like demons love come no demons come from Methodists what's that about am I a demon is that what that is they do maybe they do and you're just

not Methodist no one comes for demons maybe they're like do our thing maybe they kind of you know maybe you're just maybe they cut a deal yeah that's what I'm saying am I on the bad side what's the deal who's the boss who's the don't according to add maybe the demons don't see you as a threat maybe Methodists are not a threat that sounds probably accurate what's the Methodist version of a Pope? Some guy named Steve, probably. Some guy named Steve. Yeah.

That sounds right. The Pope is a guy named Bob. So like, you know, it's 2026, dude. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I said our Pope. Like I'm still. I just did it too. I said it too.

I was like, yeah, us, the Catholics. Yeah, that's our Pope. So after the pre said, don't use that room. The Lutzers are like, all right, well, we won't. We'll just make it the sewing room and we'll just not, you know, no bedrooms or anything problem solved. But from that point on. They claimed the house went into a sort of supernatural war.

Hundreds of flies started swarming that room in the dead of winter in a sealed house when there should have been no flies at all. Black stains appearing on the toilets, green slime oozing from the walls. Now, skepticism creates a problem for Ed, if this is all true. If the house was this destroyed, ooze, stains, flies, why did none of the neighbors experience it? why did nobody see it? Why were the locks fine the next day?

Nobody was hired. Talk about the locks breaking completely. Did somebody clean that? Right, exactly. Like what Ed had a ready made explanation in the book the demonologist. And this isn't the brick theory that we talked about last week. This one he calls telepathic hypnosis. Ed claimed that high level demons don't just move objects.

They project hallucinations. directly into your brain. Nice. So when you see ooze coming from the wall, you are seeing ooze coming from the wall, but it's a hallucination being piped directly into you by the demons.

So what you're telling? Hold on. Like what is that? Some of the doors, the doors according to the Lutz's, shattered and splintered, but then they were fine the next day. That's the ghost busters.

Because the demons were messing with the, right, because like... It's all in your head. Right, because it's like a secret, the secret of the ewes. Right. Get out of here. trying to, okay.

The secret of it ooze is that it's all in your head. That's what that movie's about. That's what turtles too is. Yes. That's why that one, I know, admittedly, Toka and Razor,

we're in their heads. It's the one I watched the least. I'll be honest. Yeah. All right. It hasn't even a real movie. I don't know. I have to go back and reconsider that classic.

Shazam. Shazam, were they real? Shazam is definitely real. His name is Billy. He's a boy. Yeah. The essence,

the demon is gaslighting you, essentially. Like to weaken your mental. mentality according to Ed to make you prone to the oppression stage. Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa,

so okay, in modern, and when I said modern, I mean the last 30, 40 years, in modern movie making, when they're talking about, you know, demons and monsters or whatever,

this trope of it being in your head, is that from this? I'd have to check. This might be. Is this like the first version? Did Ed Warren invent scary game score? one is that what you're asking honest to god half the scary games we play are this mechanic of like

it's not really happening i would say lovecraft probably did that kind of thing first okay sure if we're going to like really i don't want to attribute to ed a trope in fiction that he is just sort of bending a little bit to fit him you know what i mean ed ain't that smart but i wouldn't be surprised if many people who do make movies found out about it through the warrants rather than lovecraft you know what i mean i would not i wouldn't surprise me. Dealing with ectoplasm and all this stuff was very much a 70s thing too. Slime was a very common go-to ghost residue. And George Lutz claimed that he started waking up every single night at exactly 3.15 a.m., which was the estimated time of the Defeo murders. He claimed that his

personality began to change. He became obsessed with the fireplace, compulsively checking it, feeding it, even though the house had central heating. He stopped. bathing. He grew a beard that made him look according to some accounts, eerily similar to Butch Defeo. And Kathy Lutz claimed she was touched by invisible hands, embraced, levitated a few times above the bed when she slept. Whoa. Dude, just like, uh, are you scared? It's another, that's another, just like, like, almost like cartoon level trope that, that we're getting from this story. Like, are these the urtexts? No way, right? What? Like, These tropes aren't like from this.

They may be from this. Maybe. There's a lot of this. From this. Yeah. It's a sleeping kid from like every movie. This is why the warrants are so fucking famous, man. They are the OG famous ghost hunters.

The OG ghost adventures. They are all of this. And the first ones to take this stuff and monetize it in such way. It's hard to really sell how much of a phenomenon the book the Amityville horror was like how huge that book was and then how huge that movie was i can remember as a kid my mom talking about how much that book scared her and how was the scariest movie she'd ever seen like yes i would argue their warrants are the center for a lot of common haunted house movie trope the ones and uh that other guy that we were talking about the shadow guy uh yeah the the the guy

who like before there was like real tv and media he like like did it with books. That's like such a crazy thing that like like jazz. Like like America did ghost hunting like modern day paranormal like crockery jazz baseball. And if you think about it like them doing this reality show. Yeah. Prior prior prior to a being makes total sense why they were media darlings and how how quickly. Because people would watch this shit and eat it up.

It is just it hit that kind of nerve humans have a curiosity about. I mean, it is like it's fascinating, but it is, I think Alex is on to something where it's like pure Americana where in the past, like just as a fan of history, there are ghost hunters and ghosts and stories all throughout all cultures on earth. But only in America does it monetize and transform culture in such a way that it becomes mass media. The industry, yeah. That's crazy. The industry, correct. It changes everything. Like, and it changed them completely.

Like, it's nuts. But, like, yeah, they skyrocketed to stardom and all, it just took a couple of cases for them for it to do it. It's an aesthetic. It's like a, it's like a second wave or third wave. It's like, uh, you had like the mentalists or whatever, like the guy, the, the ones with the, uh, where the shit came out of their mouths. And this is like, yeah, yeah, like seances and stuff like that, which was also huge.

Which was also largely. repack and showmanship. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so I feel like, it's like how there's like different waves of ska and punk and stuff. It's like another wave of ghost hunting schlock, basically. This is the first, I mean,

it's a 70s, so it's maybe the first time ghost hunting becomes a media thing, like a TV thing. Blast those horns, boys. Kick it. Scrup. Dip on.

It's a scall time. Pick it up, pick it up, pick it up, pick it up, You all. And then there's the story. And then there was a story James. James George claimed that he, one night he woke up and looked at his wife and next to him in bed one night

and watched her face transform into that of an old hag, wrinkled, ancient, super scary, rude before his very eyes. Rude. Yeah, I know, very rude. Then there's Missy Lutz, the youngest daughter, who claimed she'd made a, friend in the house, an invisible friend named Jody.

Except Jody wasn't an normal imaginary friend. Jody was a pig. What? I don't know. Yeah, we talked about this in the original episode one. Jody was a demonic pig with glowing red eyes who would appear at her window, a window that was on the second floor. You don't remember this point?

I know, I really should have. Where is the fan art of this on the Reddit? Like, I don't like the floating bit. Yo, screw moth man. Next plushy. Jody the floating pig.

Dude. Yes, please. That's so, that's so ridiculous. Incredible. I do vaguely remember this. But it is nonetheless,

equally is as as off-putting this time as last time. Enough of a lack of a memory to still surprise me. Exactly. And make me cringe twice. Yeah. And as, and Ed Warren saw this as like definitive proof. He treated the pig with like a grave seriousness and claimed the Lutz's found. He also went on to claim that the Lutz has found cloven hoof prints in the snow that outside of the house that led away from the house, but never led back to the barn where you would expect.

Well, where do they leave? They were a pig. Skin walkers, bro. Away. Away. And then they just stopped. Away? And then they just disappeared.

It led to a homeless man in an alley in New York. and they said, no, thank you, and walked away. Skinwalkers, bro. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So it's like Skinwalker Ranch, very same. He claimed, George claimed also that he saw the eyes himself one night. He said they were two red glowing orb staring in from the darkness outside his daughter's, a bedroom window. Then there's the red room.

In the basement, the Lutz's claim they found a small hidden cubbyhole behind a shelving unit. It was painted solid red from floor to ceiling and the family dog. would refuse to go anywhere near it. Ed Warren didn't look at this and see a weird storage closet, of course. It was a portal to hell, brother. It was a portal to hell. Are you doing it? Are you doing it Ed Warren voice now?

Hey, I guess I am. It's a portal to hell, brother. He claimed this tiny red room was the supernatural heart of the house, a literal doorway for spirits to enter our world, which is extremely convenient because it means the demons didn't just break in. They had like, they made a dedicated door specifically in the Amityville house to come from hell to. Really convenient. Good for them.

You know what? Good on them. Yep. You know, good, exactly. And after 28 days of this escalating horror, the Lutz's ran from the home. They didn't pack even properly. They left clothes, food, furniture, including the Defeo furniture that they bought. They fled to Kathy's mother's house on another part of Long Island.

and never spent another night on 112 ocean. Can I ask a question based on this? Like, maybe this is just me in 2026, realizing that some people suck. But has there ever been a discussion about how, you know, this couple comes in, buys the murder house on the cheap, which everyone said, 80K is cheap for this. It should be 100 something. Yep. They ran in.

They bought it. 28 days later, they're out. It sounds like one of those, we're going to flip this bad boy situation. How much did it sell for? That's a question. Like after they left, did they sell it again?

And for how much? We'll get to when they sell it. I don't think I have the cost, but I think they made money on it. Because it seems like if you were going to try and build a legend and make a buck, this would be it. You go there,

you say how terrible it was, and then you dip. Yep. Maybe it was a different time. We'll talk about that. We're going to get into the business shit that happened. I promise you. So, yeah, they leave.

And after they leave, the fucking circus arrives after that point. By the time the Warrens got involved, the Lutzes were already gone. And the Warrens were part of what came after. The investigation, the media tour, the giant show. According to Lorraine's account in the demonologist, they got the call in late February, 1976, which was about six weeks after the Lutz's had fled their home. A TV producer in New York wanted to know if the Warrens could investigate the house and maybe hold a seance on camera.

And Lorraine obviously agreed. Hell yes. But they made sure to bring their own fucking entourage when they went. They arrived at 112 Ocean Ave with Psychics Mary Pascarea and Alberta Riley, a photographer, and crucially a camera crew from Channel 5. news. 17 people in total by Ed's own count. They brought a production team with them to this shit.

And this is Ed's own count for what happened when he arrived to the house. Ed claims that even before getting to Amityville, things, strange things were happening. The telephone at his home was ringing oddly. When Lorraine picked up, there was no one on the line, just animal growls or bizarre sound effects or distant whispering. ring. Ed claims that obstructions, quote, unquote, kept appearing. Cars would break down. Messages wouldn't get through. The demonic forces, he said, were trying to prevent them from reaching the house. And when he finally arrived and got there and walked toward the front door,

the worst thing of all happened. He tripped. Had a heart attack. And Ed wants you to know. Ed wants you to know he never trips. Oh, damn. I'm fucking dead serious. Okay, I thought this wasn't serious, but then you said he never trips. And now I'm like, oh, shit, if somebody trips who never trips, that's how you know that's ghost real. That's how you know those demons. He says, oh, shit. He says, this just got real.

Is that the end of the episodes of the twist? See you next time. No, he says this is huge because he never trips because he claims that, and I'm dead fucking serious, his feet are too small and too nimble to never trip. First off, what a salmphroarious. second off and what? I've got 20 dexterity. My feet are far too small. You can't touch this.

So when he stumbled on the front steps of Amityville, he said he will never lay a hand. The supernatural forces were already pushing back. I'm just telling you with the man, bro. I'm just telling you what the manorow. I love that you can just go. I'm just telling you what hero. what the man wrote, bro. This is not me.

I'm just telling you what he wrote. Come on, man. Inside, when Lorraine stepped in, she immediately went into psychic crisis mode. She clutched a relic of Padre Pio, the priest that she got close to over her time doing this. He was a Catholic saint. She was obsessed with and said she felt an overwhelming sense of dread in the home.

This was, she claimed, the closest to hell she would ever have gotten. From this point on, nothing ever got closer to hell than this house. Ed, meanwhile, went on the offensive. He headed straight for the basement where he called the center. Straight up. He went into it where the center of the hurricane was.

And again, I want to revisit a little bit from last week his signature technique that he calls religious provocation. Ed Warren believed that demonic spirits hide from skeptics but respond to faith, A scientist with a camera will find nothing because the demon won't reveal itself to someone who doesn't believe. But if you walk in with holy water in a crucifix, if you challenge the demon directly, you can force it to respond. And this is how Ed Warren describes the process in the book. He would send everyone out of the house, go into the room, room by room alone, carrying a vial of holy water blessed by an exorcist priest and a crucifix. He'd scatter the holy water in all four corners of each room. and then he'd say out loud,

and the name of Jesus Christ, I command all spirits, sorry, you should probably say it in Hank Hill's voice. Thank you. The New England voice I was going to give him. Go ahead. In the name of Jesus Christ, I command all spirits,

whether human or diapalical, to leave this dwelling and never return. And then he'd wait to see if it worked. And if nothing happened, it worked. Great. Room was clear. If there was no response and it was silent, it worked. If something did happen, we're talking temperature dropping, your typical haunted stuff,

the smelling of foul smells, objects moving voices, etc. For him, that was proof of demonic activity. Ed claimed that in the Amityville basement, he felt a hundred needles pushing him toward the ground. He felt what he called religious resistance, the demonic forces pushing back against his own holiness. And in this moment, he decided he had to throw more holy water. into the air, screaming his challenge in the name of Jesus Christ, a command you to reveal yourself. And according to Ed, that's when the demons were treated. They were so terrified by his faith that they backed off.

Hell yeah, Ed. And that's how the system, that's it. That's the system. That's how he does it. That's how it works. Now, the main event at Amityville was supposed to be the seance. This was the whole point of bringing the TV crew there to film Ed Lorraine communicating with the spirits of the house on live television.

Three psychic mediums participated, the two I mentioned, and of course, Lorraine is psychic. She was the third. Ed did his religious provocation beforehand, and then the cameras rolled. Nothing happened. What do you mean? Nothing happened. They did the same thing. They started the mediums, and as they were like, roll cameras, nothing.

No demonic responses. Nothing that showed up on camera, nothing. I did my job in the basement then. No, I will not. But while the cameras got nothing and there were, seemingly nothing. Here's Ed from the book how he described it afterward. We got a response, Al-Hrat. Phenomenal, let go, not in terms of terrifying external activity, but rather as a fiscal assault on at least half of us present, especially those who had a pivotal

job to do during the seance. So they're trying to embarrass him? So what he's saying is Yeah, maybe a little bit The ghosts are trying to end up dead To embarrass him But he basically said Well, you didn't catch anything But there was stuff happening

He started having what quote unquote Involuntary physical reactions I started having a heart attack And feeling gay He started having heart palpitations He said And he said that these affected him Personally for three weeks

After the investigation Three weeks of heart problems From a seance That produced no visible evidence For the camera they brought 17 people to catch. Lorraine called the seance essentially a fiasco. She insisted that, quote,

that fiasco occurred as a result of some external agent. The seance failed, but it wasn't because of her. She's saying the seance failed because of demons. The demons made the seance fail. They wanted it to fail. Exactly correct. The demons were hoping it would fail and trying to make it fail.

That way, they would look embarrassed, which proves that the demons were all. always there. Fuck yeah. Airtight. Airtight logic. Again, exactly. If the Seance did produce footage, evidence of demons.

The Seance failed and produced nothing. Also evidence of demons. There is no outcome in which demons aren't real for them. It's scary to think about how real demons are. I know. Some say the realist. Now, obviously, they didn't leave empty handed because there is a photograph that we did look at in the first episode back in the day.

The Warren took hundreds of photographs during their time at Amityville, mind you, almost all of them unremarkable. But one photograph became legendary. And it's the black and white shot of a hallway where it's dark and shadowy and on the left side of the frame peeking out from the doorway as a small figure looks like a little boy, definitely like a child. And it looks like his eyes are glowing. Do you remember this photo? No. Okay, hang on. I'll get it to you real quick.

What I remember of this from eight years ago is nothing. that's fine except for like the story i think i think i've seen this picture like one million times yeah definitely you're gonna see it and you're gonna oh it's literally just a boy with glowy eyes like it is even a shadow person it's just a boy that's like a shadowy area that's like when a cat you know looks directly into the camera yeah yeah you shine a light in a cat's eyes and it reflects yeah right and yeah exactly and so uh to them their eyes are glowing and ed lorraine claimed that this was the ghost of John Matthew Defeo, one of the murdered children. They showed this photo on talk shows for decades. It appeared in books. It became one of the most, and honestly is one of the most

famous ghost photographs. It's pretty scary. Yeah. And it is, and like, I'll give them that. It is genuinely pretty creepy when, especially if you first see it and the only context you have is haunted house, ghost hunt, Amityville. Right. But there, there is a problem, one that we talked about in our first episode. There was a man on the investigation. team that night named Paul Bartz. Malka. Was a photographer. Yes, correct.

Paul Bartz, Moffatts, Paul was a photographer. It's a mistranslation. Right. Exactly. Paul was a photographer helping the Warrens

with their equipment. He was a grown man, but he was also pretty short and he was wearing a plaid shirt. And if you look carefully at the ghost boy photograph, and you really study it. It's glasses.

The reflection is glasses. It's, you can see that he's wearing a plaid pad pad, Is he doing this? The same plaid bar, like same shirt, the same plaid shirt,

Paul Bartz was likely wearing that night. And yet he's like, I think he's on his hands and knees, again, probably getting angled photographs and such. His sunglasses are on literally like this, like upside down like this. It looks like,

oh, I kind of see what you're saying. I don't really know if that's what that we're looking at here. Um, the, it really does. Alex,

uh, it does. It kind of looks like his glasses are on upside down. But it also could be because he has those ones that are flat top, big round bottoms. Like the, like the what's his name glasses? Hot serial killer. What's his name? I know exactly what you mean.

Yeah. Yes, those glasses. Yeah. The thing is too, there's, while this is very well, is likely just like a man like, you know, on his hands and knees, whatever. There is also, and I remember talking about this as well. There's no way I could, it's a possible way to verify it. But there was also a rumor that one of the people on the crew had their kid with. them on this trip.

If that's true, that's just bullshit. Yeah, if that's true, that's out of here. Yeah. It's just, what's crazy is if you look up, there's an obituary for him. If you look him up from that time period, the haircut is like dead on for this kid. I think it's a photographer. I think it's a photographer on his hands and knees maybe or just walking. That's unfortunate.

Obviously, Ed Warren never accepted this explanation. He'd showed that photo until the day he died insisting that it was proof of the supernatural. like one of his holy grails. But there's also a second photo. And this one, honestly, to me, is even more revealing of how Ed Warren's mind worked. This photograph shows Lorraine standing in one of the rooms of the Amityville House. And behind her mounted on the wall is a moose head, taxidermy, just decor left over from the Defeos. And Ed fucking loved this photo.

When he showed it during lectures and TV appearances, he would point to the moose antlers and claim, and I swear I'm not making this up that you could see the face of Padre Pio his favorite saint watching over Lorraine from beyond the grave manifested in the antlers of a dead moose what? Why?

Do you have that one? Yeah, hang on, I can get that one for you. Yep, it's this one right here. I have to see what this look. I can't even imagine what this looks like. Oh, that links me to phone. It links me to Facebook. Let me just snap the picture.

it's like really old. This is so interesting to me. Okay. Giazzo, here you go. Yeah. You think. Okay. He's saying in that in between?

In the moose antlers. Yes. Honestly, it looks like the Virgin Mary on a piece of fucking toast. It does look like the Virgin Mary more than a ocean, but it 100% has Virgin Mary vibes. Yes. It looks like the eBay toast vibes. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. But that's not all. At the very tip of one antler, Ed claimed you could see a tiny face. In that face, he said, was Ronnie Defeo. Don't get greedy, Ed. Like, we already got the, I gave you the, I gave you the fucking other one. Come on, man. That's awesome.

Don't get greedy, Ed. We already gave you the fucking saint in the fucking thing. Come on, dude. The thing is, even if he is seeing Ronnie Defeo, the guy who killed his family, he was alive and in jail. Yeah. But it didn't matter to Ronnie. I mean, it didn't matter to Ed rather.

Probably not to Ronnie either, to be honest. Yeah. He probably was like in jail. He said he saw what he saw. Ed just said he saw what he saw. He just reporting what he sees. It's all. Wow.

And you like in God. And if you, there's video footage of Ed showing this photo to his son-in-law, Tony Spera. And he's not somber during this. He is fucking ecstatic. He's pointing at the taxidermy moose. Like it's the fucking Zepro-

film, grinning saying right there, you see that little head? That's Ronnie Defeo. He's so happy in that video. He's found exactly what he's looking for. And he just keeps going back to that photo over and over again. And seeing that footage does remind me of like the story of like him going and showing the photos to the person who developed them and being like, look at this. It's a demon.

So we've got the flies, the slime, the priest, all that good stuff. The flies, the slime, the priest. Because we got Lutz's also worked at this time. We're also telling the world about gates to hell opening in their living room. The real story was happening in the lawyer's kitchen over several bottles of wine. And this is where we're going to get to the business side of all this. William Weber was Ronnie DeFaio's defense attorney. And Weber had a problem himself.

His client had methodically murdered six people with a rifle and he needed a legal strategy. The confession was airtight. DeFaio had admitted to everything already at this. this point. So Weber's only angle was not guilty by reason of insanity. But to sell that to a jury, he needed a narrative. He needed to convince 12 people that Butch Defeo wasn't a cold-blooded murderer, but he was a victim, a victim of forces that were out of his control. And for that, he needed demons. Now Defeo's trial happened in October 1975. He was convicted in a sentence, as we said. The insanity defense did not work. But his defense attorney

wasn't done. He was still looking for an angle, maybe an appeal, maybe a book deal, hell, maybe both. And the Lutz's came along at the perfect time. According to Weber, who admitted this freely in interviews and court depositions years later, he met with George and Kathy Lutz at his house in his kitchen over wine. And together they built a story. This is a direct quote from him saying, quote, we created this horror story over many. So there's a direct. So there's just a direct confession.

From the defense attorney of Defeo. Yeah, yeah. Yes. And he literally said it was a brainstorming session that they took real details. The house is creepy. The history of the tragic events. And the fact that George was indeed having trouble sleeping and then they just ran with it. Weber needed the demonic vibes to be validated because he was still hoping to help Defeo appeal his conviction.

If the house was genuinely evil, if it could make people do terrible things, then maybe his client deserved a new trial. And the Lutz's, man, they needed money. Though they got that house out cheap, they still couldn't really afford that house. They had bought a house that couldn't buy. The mortgage was crushing them. So they were out anyway. Yeah. They already fled the property.

And they were living again with Kathy's mother. And this right here was a way out of the debt they had put themselves in. sell the story, make the horror real, and get a book deal. Right. So get the money. Get the horror real, dude. And this is where I'm like, we've definitely done it from episode one to now. We do so much more research than we used to.

They sat down and they made a plan. The original deal was kind of complicated. A writer named Paul Hoffman was supposed to write the book. And the split was going to be 40% to the writer, 12% to George and Kathy Lutz, 12% to William Weber and smaller percentages to a few other people involved in the deal. But the part that would make your skin crawl is if you're like in this industry is each person in the deal was going to shave off a little from their own percentage and secretly funnel 5% of the profits to Ronnie Defeo, the mass murderer.

The guy who killed his parents and his four siblings in their fucking bed. Wow. He was going to get a cut because this is before the son of Sam Law's existence. did, which we also did a series on this man. This is the guy in New York in the 70s who went around with a pistol and shop people. Profiting off their own murders. Correct. Yeah. In the law, it's the laws that prevent criminals from profiting off their crimes. So technically, this was legal, just morally disgusting. But the Lutz has turned out to be the shrew, to be shrewder than Weber gave them credit for. They realized that if word got out that the murder was getting paid,

the whole thing would just collapse. No publisher would touch it. No one would buy a book where the guy who killed six people was also making royalties. So they cut everyone out. They went behind Weber's back. And they found a different writer, Jay Anson. And they negotiated a much more lucrative 50-50 split. And they burned the lawyer to sell the lie. Weber got cut out,

which is why he went out and started saying all this shit. That's crazy. But regardless, it worked. The Amityville Horror was published in 1977, and it sold over 10, million copies. The adaptation, the movie adaptation, released just a couple years later in 1979 and became one of the highest grossing independent films of all time. After all the lawsuits from Weber, from Defeo's people, from subsequent owners of the house who were furious about

tourists showing up at all hours, the Lutz has walked away with about $200,000, which is about a million in today's money, which sounds like a lot. But for a book that sold 10 million copies for a movie franchise that's still making sequels to this day $200,000 was table scraps at the end of it all because as

better than they were than Weber at this the fucking the Warren's were 200 times better at making sure they got paid more than anyone else. The Lutz has got the fame, they got the interviews, they got

their faces in magazines, but they really didn't get rich, or at least not super rich. And in exchange, they had to spend the rest of their lives defending the story. Every interview and every public appearance, every single skeptical question, they had to stay essentially in character to this story forever. They could never admit that it was exaggerated or fabricated because that would open them up to more lawsuits. They would just get bodied forever, yeah. Forever. So they are trapped in their Amityville horror forever. It's kind of an ultimate Monkeys Paul in a weird, weird way.

George Lutz died in 2006, still insisting the story was true. Kathy died in 2004, and neither of them ever publicly recanted this stories. In the Warrens, they actually weren't part of that original financial deal. They didn't get points on the book or the first movie, but they got something more valuable than money from this. They got legitimacy off of this. the Amityville propelled them to super stardom. Like before Amityville, you had Annabelle.

And Lorraine Warren were the ghost hunters from Connecticut, regional, you know, celebrities at best. After Amityville, they were the experts who had walked through the most famous haunted house in America, investigated and lived to tell the tale. Amityville was their calling card now. It didn't matter that they arrived after the Lutz's had already fled. It didn't matter that the investigation was really just,

a media event. It didn't matter that the photograph of the Ghost Boy was almost certainly their own team member caught infrared film. What mattered was that their names were now attached to the biggest paranormal story in the country. And they're rich. And here, this is where they learned the lesson. Branding is more important than any of it.

They learned the lesson Trump learned. Slap your name on something and you can make money off of it. They were consulted for Amityville too. They appeared on every talk show that would have them. They started commanding higher speaking fees. They expanded their occult museum. Ed Warren understood something essential in this moment. In the paranormal business, you don't need to prove anything.

You just need to be associated with the stories people already believe. And that is where they were geniuses in their scummy con artist ways. And just as the heat from Amityville was starting to cool down, a new fire was burning immediately 3,000 miles away across the Atlantic in August of 1977. We're moving right over to the Enfield Poultergeist. One of the most single compelling cases in the history of the paranormal, in my opinion. But this one is much different. There are police witnesses, audio recordings, hundreds of hours of tapes.

We talked about Enfield Poultergeist on the show. investigators who lived at the house for over a year, a voice that spoke through an 11-year-old girl and new details about a dead man she had never met. If you're going to believe in any haunting Enfield, I still think is one of the ones that earns that belief. But if you ask Ed and Lorraine Warren, they were the heroes of Enfield.

They're the ones that save them. But spoiler, not only were they not the heroes, they were barely fucking there. And yet one of the conjuring movies, is based on them. The Enfield Poldergeist haunting and them being there and they fucking weren't.

They were, this was out in, uh, Enfield, North London. It was a council house, public housing for American people like us for, you know,

what did think about what it was. Small, cramped thin walls, you know, living there was Peggy Hodgson, who was a recently divorced single mother struggling to raise four kids on very little money. Her two daughters,

Margaret and Janet are about to become the center. of international media storm. It started in the night of August 31st, 1977. The girls were in bed. It was late, and they heard something. A shuffling sound like furniture being dragged across the floor and knocking. Peggy Hobson did what any exhausted single mother would do at this point. She yelled at the kids to shut up and go to sleep because they kept waking up and it was

waking her up. And it was really annoying. Okay. But then the chest of drawers moved. And this is the detail, I think one of the details that really pushes us a from Amityville just to like really contrast the two while everything is second-handed amityville like the lutz is told people what happened there were no independent witnesses and their 28 days in the house at Enfield people saw things multiple people people with no financial

stake in the story whatsoever peggy hotston watch into the daughter as she got into an adulthood she stayed haunted by this this was not something she liked like this bothered her like till the very end. Peggy Hodgson though, the mother watched a heavy oak chest of drawers slide 18 inches across the floor by itself. She pushed it back and it slid out again. She pushed it back a second time

and she said it felt like the furniture was pushing against her. So she grabbed her children and ran next door to the neighbors, the Nottingham family. Vic Nottingham, a construction worker came over to investigate. Big guy, skeptical. He heard the knocking too, though. He said it seemed to follow him from room to room. He could not find the source.

So they did the honest logical next thing. They called the cops. Now, unlike the Lutz's, you know, usually in ghost stories, the police show up, find nothing, leave with the condescending smile in the movies, right? But that's not what happened here. A police constable by the name of Carolyn Heaps responded to the call. She walked in the living room and she watched a chair move. She said, not wobble.

It moved. It lifted slightly off the ground and slid three to four feet across the floor. She said she checked for wires. She checked for fishing line. She looked for magnets for someone hiding. Any sort of rational explanation she tried to find. And she said she could find nothing. And then she did, she said something remarkable.

She signed a sworn affidavit, an official legal document stating what she had witnessed when she got called out there. That's pretty crazy. It's one of the reasons I think Enfield. has some truth to it. Yeah. Not to say the girls didn't fake some stuff because I still also think

they were 11, 13 year old girls faking things because there was somebody who was like... There was some gassing up going on with this one for sure. This is the one where they jump between the beds, right? Yes, yes, exactly correct. So having a police officer on record

is pretty massive as Alts, kind of just like pointed out. It does move the needle from hysterical family who's making things up to potentially unexplained phenomenon witnessed by a trained observer. But the police

can't arrest a ghost, they can't do anything about it. And so they left. And what follows next, the press arrived. Within days, the Daily Mirror had reporters camped on the lawn. Photographers were trying to get shots through the window. The Hodgson family said they felt like they were under siege. But the people who would have the most impact weren't journalists, they were from the Society of Psychical Research, the SPR. This is one of the oldest paranormal research organizations in the world, originally founded in 1882. These were not ghost hunters like Ed Warren's little group of Nesper.

They're academics, researchers. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it is kind of close as close as control. SCP maybe, yeah, except for the C part.

Right, right. Many of them were skeptics to a fault. They approach cases with the assumption that there's a rational explanation and they do everything they can to work to find it out. The investigators that were assigned to Enfield were Maurice Grossman, or Maurice Gross, rather, and Guy Lyon Playfair. Maurice Gross is the hero of the story. He was the main focus of the main couple episodes when we did

this, not Ed Warren. Gross was an inventor by trade. He actually held patents. He understood machinery, mechanics. He was very analytical. But important to the story is he was also grieving at this time. His daughter, who was also named Janet, had died in a motorcycle accident just a year prior to this job. God damn. Some of, and rightfully so, some have suggested that's why he took the case so so seriously because there's a little girl named Janet who was suffering from this. Fair enough.

And maybe there is a part of him that was looking for proof that death isn't the end. We'll never know. Why is this like a detective noir like act one set up right now? Because it is. And the story really much is. Bruce Willis in fucking Sin City vibes. Yeah, kind of. Whatever is motivation though.

Maurice Gross went out to the. the Hodgson house and after a little bit he actually moved in if you remember he spent 14 months there he set up recording equipment so long i would because he had recording equipment everywhere that ran all night long um he would stay up all night on night to like listen for any weirdness that would happen and this was the dude who was like i heard the voice come from the girl yes this is going to be the same guy where the voice come from the girl yep um he spent 14 months there he set up recording equipment documented everything he recorded over 180 hours of audio tape while he was there.

Guy Lyon Playfair worked alongside him. And Playfair was a journalist and a researcher who had investigated poltergeist cases in Brazil at this point. And he was experienced, skeptical, and very thorough. Together, they conducted what many consider, honestly, the most rigorous investigation of any haunting ever documented up to that point. And even for a long time after. And what they captured was honestly, a lot of it was baffling to me.

Gross and Playfair documented. knocking that responded to questions. They would ask how many people are in this room and the knocks would correspond to the correct number. They documented furniture moving on its own, chairs flipping, table sliding when no one was touching them. They documented small fires starting spontaneously, matches igniting inside closed drawers. They documented objects appearing out of thin air, Lego bricks, small toys that seem to materialize from nowhere and fall from the ceiling to the floor. They documented all of this with tape recorders and cameras in the kind of methodical patients that Ed Warren fucking never had for any of the things that he did in the paranormal world.

But the centerpiece of Enfield was Janet, the 11-year-old. And according to Janet, she began to levitate. And again, this is where you brought up the photograph. We need to be careful here because the photographs are complicated. The most famous images of Janet levitating show her suspended in mid-air above her. bed. She's horizontal. Her back is arched. Her arms are out. Skeptics look at these photos and say she's just jumping off the bed, which is kind of where we fell when we went through these. You can see her muscles are tense in the photo. It is the, like it is a posture of someone jumping not levittance. It looks exactly like what it would look like if she was jumping between

the beds. Regardless of what it actually is, it looks exactly like a girl jumping between beds. Right. And I'm not going to pretend otherwise. Like that's exactly what it looks like. But Maurice Gross claimed he witnessed something different. He said he watched Janet float horizontally while sleeping. Eyes closed, completely limp, rising off of the mattress. The problem is the camera only captured the moments that looked like jumps. Like the grossest testimony about the horizontal floating is only that. It's just his testimony.

So you have to decide what you believe. Either Gross was lying or mistaken or he saw something the camera couldn't capture. And I don't know. Like I said, without evidence taking, I want to believe him. Obviously, I want to believe all this shit is real. But the photos just look like her jumping. And that's really just the end of it. Yeah, like, if that's what they're saying is real, like, get out of here, dudes.

Right. Now, we're about to get to the voice, but this is something I want to bring up. Ed Warren would go further than levitation. He backed up the claim that Janet wasn't just levitating. Ed said Janet was teleporting. Oh, all right. He claimed Janet would go dematerialization. One minute she was in bed,

the next she was found curled up in a locked fuse box in the wall. What? Yeah, Ed claimed the demon could disassemble her atoms, move her through solid matter and reassemble her. But I'm just trying to imagine the size of this fuse box. I mean, good point. That's what do you,

I'm no, okay man. Maybe it's like a big one outside. He called it transdimensional. shifting. Well, that's what they call it in DC comics, too, but that doesn't mean anything. He said it was absolute proof that it wasn't just a poltergeist. It was a demon.

Transdimensional shifting, dude. Write that down for a future story. That's what demons. That's what polter guys do. That's what demons do. That's what the demon did to Janet. She transdimensionally shifted her into a box. And well, and then one day, obviously Janet started speaking in another voice, but it wasn't

her voice. The voice that came out of Janet was deep, gravelly. It sounded like an old man who would smoke two packs today for 50 years. We did play clips of it during the Enfield Poltergeist. Didn't seem that much. Didn't sound that much like a guy smoked. He said, like, yeah, I'm going to get you.

Sounded like, you know, it sounded like is Danny, from Danny Torrance. Red Rob. I can say Danny Phantom. From The Shining. Red Rock. Oh, yes, yes. Yes.

Very similar like that. Yeah, it was rough and rasping coming from. from this little 11 year old girl, and Maurice Gross, he recorded it, he tested it, he filled Janet's mouth with water and then taped her mouth shut and the voice still spoke. It didn't, like, he's saying it wasn't coming from her vocal cords. It seemed to vibrate from her false vocal folds, which is a ventriloquism technique that is incredibly difficult to sustain without choking. This is something we did.

We also talked about in the episode. There's ways that some Gregorian, like, people chant. It's with their vocal folds, not with their vocal cords. And this is a ventriloquism technique that they use the folds. And if 11-year-old is doing it for elongated periods of time, that's fucking crazy. The voice said its name was Bill. And here's what Bill said happened to himself. Alex, you want to read this?

I will. This is how Bill died. Just before I died, I went blind. And then I had a hemorrhage. And I fell asleep. And I died in the chair. the corner downstairs. And researchers did track down information about the previous occupants of the house,

and a man named Bill Wilkins had lived there years earlier, an elderly man. He had gone blind in his final years, and he did die of a brain hemorrhage. And he had died in the armchair in the corner of the living room, the exact spot Bill described. Okay. All right, if Bill's real, let's just say, Bill, the ghost is real. how do you know that you died of a hemorrhage i mean i am at like all right you really want to like if you it depends it depends like let's say let's say maybe you have access to all information let's say i'm jfk okay let's say i'm jfk and i get my head blown off like do i

have awareness of that right no way right thanks i don't know so all right this is tangential but i'm i'm putting together an episode for a future date on uh reincarnation getting your head blown off Oh, no. Yeah. On reincarnation and some of the more compelling reincarnation cases out there. And one that I came across is from Turkey in the 1950s of this three-year-old boy who, when he started talking, called himself not by his name, said his name was Jake. He said he died in a plane crash and that he was in like over the ocean.

Yes, yes. And he was giving names of all the people he was with in that wing. And it was apparently real people from World War II, this guy named Jake who got shot down, plane crashed, like that kind of thing. So I don't know. Like maybe there is like, not to say you like souls are. born, but maybe there is a quantum information, like, level to reality where, like, certain imprints just are. I don't, yeah, the news sphere, exactly. I don't know. I don't know how you, I don't know. I don't know how you would know this stuff. How do you know, like,

it, like my, I feel like my awareness of getting killed would be like, hook, and then I'm dead. You know what I mean? Yeah. I feel it'll be more like the good place where they erase your memory. And only if you ask politely, will they tell you that you got killed buying tequila mix for one? Oh, man. Nice. Yeah, the skeptical explanation there is one is that Janet or her family somehow researched Bill Wilkins before the voice appeared. But there's no evidence that they did.

And the level of specific detail, the blindness, the hemorrhage, the chair in the corner, kind of goes beyond what you would find in public records, you would think. Again, this is why the Enfield story haunts people, sticks around. It's why researchers keep coming back to it because there are elements of it. Yes, that can be thrown away as like they're jumping off the bed. maybe they were just doing tricks because there are points where the girls did get caught faking things. But every time they got caught, it was so clearly kids faking it.

There was not even like a question in his, in Maurice's mind. Now, this is where we switch to the conjuring to. This, according to Ed and Lorraine Warren, is why they fly to London. They move, according to them, they move in with the Hodgson family. They discover that the real demon behind the haunting is an entity called Valak, a demonic According to them? Yeah, according to them. God damn.

A demonic nun, like a hell nun? This is where the nun in the Conjuring 2 comes from. In the spin-off movie, The Nun. I forgot that was part of it. I forgot how many movies are in that. It's every movie that's like every horror movie that's come out in a long time. It's a cinematic universe, the WCU, the Warren Cinematic Universe. Yeah, it was a demonic nun, none named Volak.

And in this story, it's a demonic nun. There's a climactic showdown. Ed nearly dies. Lorraine saves him with the power of love. Makes a great movie. It's fucking fiction. All of it's fiction. Here's what actually happened.

Ed Lorraine Warren showed up uninvited at 284 Green Street in London. They weren't invited by the Hodgson family. They weren't invited by the SPR. They just appeared because they got wind of it through newspapers. They just like slid on in. Yeah. Yep. And according to Guy Lyon Playfair, who was actually there,

who spent over a. year investigating this case alongside Maurice. They stayed for approximately one day. One day. That's all the time they needed, dude. But in the demonologist, Ed claims he spent a week in Enfield. He claims he thoroughly interviewed all the members of the family separately and together while witnessing the phenomena go around me in the house. Quote unquote from him. He claims he watched the girls levitate off the floor, crisscross in the air and gets it back down. He claims a wooden chair lifted up in the air,

stayed still for a moment, then exploded. He claims a rock the size of a softball materialized at a thin air and slammed into the floor. He claims all this happened during his week-long investigation. Playfair says the Warrens were there for one conversation, mostly in the kitchen, and then they left.

Someone's clearly lying. Who do you think it is? dude man that's like you know the blues d from blues clues it's the demons are the liars come on no oh fuck you're right no

it's not no according to play fair ed warne tried in that one day tried to pitch him on a business arrangement ed allegedly told playfair

that he could make them help help them make quote I could help make you a lot of money off of the endfield case if Playfair played his cards right. Playfair declined. He also recalled Ed offering him specific advice. That's so cocksure.

I know, dude. And this is the quote that I think sums up Ed's at Wend Warren's entire career from this point forward. He said for him as a piece of advice, use the word demon. It sells better. Bro. Fucking garbage. That makes me mad. Bro.

Those five words just make me. so what years and now reasonably upset at this shit in the 70 so it's not even been that long no he's already just the shillman yeah there's three years out from amityville at most that's it those five words is what he gave is like a fucking tip and that's and i'm so fucking annoying like i don't know that makes me unreasonably mad anyway that is that is it that is the extent of the warren's involvement of the infield case and that is where we're going to like mostly leave it like Droves and Playfair had concluded that whatever was happening at Enfield, they believe something genuinely anomalous was happening,

and it was a poltergeist, not a demon like the Warrens were saying. In the traditional model, a poltergeist, as we've talked about it, isn't it in a spirit that evades from the inside? It's more of a manifestation of the living. It's generated by repressed emotions, usually the psychological turmoil of adolescence. The energy typically comes from children. We've talked about this in a lot of haunting episodes where

culture guys tend to show up when kids are going through puberty. It's just kind of very chaotic. It's usually unconsciously being done psychokinetically, not a door from hell. Gross and Playfair believed that Janet and Margaret were somehow at the center of the phenomenon, but not because they were possessed by an external entity or demon. They were producing it themselves somehow involuntarily as an expression of stress or trauma or whatever was happening. Ed Warren didn't care about nuance, though.

Ed Warren wanted demons. Demons were his brand. Demons are what he lectured about. were what sold books and got you on talk shows, demons, demons, demons, demons, baby. Holtergeist theory wasn't what he wanted. So after one day, they left, they went back to America and started telling everyone

about the demonic case in London. They added it to their files, slapped it to their brand, and it showed up in photographs. They put it in their lectures. And decades later, their estate and the filmmakers made a movie where the warrants are the heroes

who saved the day in The Conjuring 2. It's so dumb. Now, because in the demonologist, Ed doesn't just claim he was at Enfield for a week. He provides what he says are transcripts of his conversation with the spirits. These transcripts are kind of stupid and wild. According to Ed, there were six different spirit voices speaking out of the Hodgson House. And before we leave, I just wanted to go through this. I'm just going to have you guys read through this conversation real quick.

Whoever wants to be, Jesse, you're Ed. Okay. You are the ghost. You're the voice coming through the little girl, Alex. You've got it. Hello? Hello. Do you know who I am?

Yeah. Who am I? Ed. That's right. Ed. Who are you? Fred D. When are you going to leave here, Fred? 500 years.

That's a long time. Can you move something to show us you're here? No. Why not? Tommy pulled my arm out. Oh, there's two of you? Put Tommy on. Yeah, I'm Tommy. How many of you are there altogether?

Um, one, two, three, four, five, six. Six are here. No, five. What are their names? Freddie, Tommy, Billy, Charlie, and Dick. John's not here. And it just goes on like that. I just cut it back because it just goes.

That's crazy to me. The demons like, hold on, hold on. One, two, three, four, five, six. No, actually five, just five of us. How many you assholes are out here? Dick, where's John? John the demon? Don't look at me.

Oh, John loved. John left for four years ago, bro. That guy. It just goes on like the spirits. Then some of the spirits make animal noises. Some sing nursery rhymes through these conversations. They threaten to smash the recorder on Ed. They say things like, you know, very cliche.

I hate you. I hate you. When Ed asks what they think of Americans. And at one point, Ed asked, do you know where hell is, Fred? And the voice just replied, yeah. And where is hell, Fred? And he just goes, yeah. he says

Call 9-1-1 now Pugh-P-o-P-m- He just made a noise Like a yack-ch-noyed And that was the noise apparently Again, according to Ed Y-E-C-C-C-H That's that was the noise

So the British Society For Psychical Research Had investigators in the house For 14 months They recorded all that audio They documented Bill Never once did they find a Fred Or Tommy or a Charlie or Dick

Or you name That's because they were out of the time dude john was gone yeah john was they went to find john god you're right i forgot uh and there's one more thing about end field account that reveals very much he is in that ed doesn't uh ed explains why it all happened he and his explanation tells you everything you know about how he saw things again ed blamed the haunting on three things first the mother was divorced peggy hodgson was a single mom and to Ed, that was a spiritual, significant weakness. Broken families in his theology create openings for demonic forces.

You hear that, girls? Is he from one? It doesn't matter. Yeah, ladies. Yeah, if you hear you, if you have a bad relationship with your husband, too bad. That's so funny. Yeah, women, it's your fault. Did he come from a broken home?

Ed? Yeah. I don't know, actually. See? I don't think so. That's on you, gals. It's on you guys. Oh, of course.

Remember, in Ed's worldview, the people who are being affected are the ones at fault for being affected in the first place. Right. And a guy would never be responsible for a divorce. Those are the rules. Of course. Well, duh. Second, the other big crime. Different than how it works in court, but that's fine.

The second big crime, according to Ed, was the family was on welfare. They lived in government supported council housing. They couldn't afford to move. And to Ed, their poverty was spiritual vulnerability. This man had that, you know what? That prosperity gospel is just the worst. It's doing work, brother. It's doing work.

And then the third and last one, the girls had played with a Ouija board. And that was the other, the big invite that allowed everything in as well. Ed Warren looked at these two working class girls living in public housing with a single mother. And his diagnosis was they invited demons because they were bored. That's like, like that is his diagnosis. It's so dumb. Everything is spiritual. Everything is fucking, you know, it happens.

And the actual family, when this was all said and done, they were left with a mess. The haunting eventually did fade. Poltergeist activity usually does when the children at the center of the group move out and kind of grow up. But Janet Hodgson was marked for life. She was bullied at school. Kids would tease her. Teachers treated her like she was either lying or crazy when the press hounded her for years after this. And to this day, Janet maintains that the haunting was real, though she admits, and this is important.

that she faked some of it and about she said she thinks about 10% of it then it's out 2% 2% 2% she said she faked it about 2% of it no we're out you're done that's that's it you're like 2% fuck off that's not an admission of anything that's so you might as well go back to go back to your fucking confession booth and try again that's boo boo that's about 2% that's like that's the that's even worse than just flat out lying that's like you're too scared to admit the truth. So you make another lie up while also saying the truth,

which is you just made shit up. Wack. Yeah. I don't know. I'm not, I don't know. Maurice, with Maurice and Playfair,

their accounts as well. I think something weird happened there. I don't necessarily think it was maybe as intense as a whole group of people conspired to tell some bullshit story. But they never made any money out of it. And they turned the warrants down. So I'll give them that. That is genuinely admirable.

I will say that. And remember, there was a constable who signed an affidavit who said they saw something, investigated it. There are other witnesses. All right, we're going to leave the Enfield behind and move on to the last big case that made them their money. We're moving forward about six years to 1981, the case, the devil made me do it. A young man named Arnie Cheyenne Johnson ends up stabbing his landlord to death. When the police arrest him, he claims he doesn't actually even bother claiming rather self-defense.

He doesn't plead temporary insanity in the, the usual sense. He says, he says the rent was too high and everyone was fine with that. He's going to look, what he's going to do is look at a judge in the eye and say five words that had never been spoken in an American courtroom before. The devil made me do it.

And Ed Warren is going to be right there beside him, ready to testify that that is in fact true. But that's next. But I'll be move forward. So fucking crazy. The audacity. Yeah, it's crazy. And again, the story is

frustrating, shall we say. Because it really boils down. It's out of all three stories. Did you ever see the version The Devil made me do it? Did you ever see that version? No. No.

Right, the version. I shouldn't say that version. I meant like the move, the conjuring movie based on that. No, no. That was the very first conjuring movie I'd ever seen. And I think it was called the Red Door.

I'm going to have to like that. Oh, yeah, I remember this. I remember that this movie existed. I can't believe there's this many. I can't remember. I can't believe that there's this many. With the devil made me do it is where we're going to pick up next week, boys. And as we wrap up the devil made me do it, at the end of that,

it leads directly into the reality of the warrants. Because after the devil made me do it, after the devil made me do it case, we will learn all about the assistant that Ed brought on really early from a troubled home to move in with the warrants, to live with the Warrens and even sleep in the same bed as Ed Warren many, many a time. Don't love it. Only to learn that Lorraine was not only well aware, but invited her in and very much abused her alongside of it. But today, we'll leave here because we are at fucking two hours of this episode already.

And I don't want to keep going for another 30 to 45 minutes. So with that done, how you feel, boys feeling about the warrants? I'm ready to do some school yard bullion is what I'm ready to do. Right. That's exactly correct. Like we got, I think, a very good look at their pitch version of themselves, but over the case of Amityville and Enfield, which is crazy to Enfield, by the way, as we're at the end of this, it is insane that the Enfield Poltergeist story became so big for them. It became such a calling card for them to learning that they were literally there for 24 hours. Yeah, I wouldn't have stuck with that one as my main one if I was them. Right. It's nuts. Like, do you want to just do this now? Do you want to just, I can go through this pretty quick if you want. What? What? What? What? The, this story. This story right now. Let's just let's just do it. You said next time. Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, we'll get the next time. We'll pick this up next week. All right. All right. All right. We will pick this up next week. I love you. Pitchon.com slash Chimani Pot. I love you. I love you. Minnesota time over there. We'll see you there. Bye. Jesse, you good?

I'm sorry. I went and I looked up the Wikipedia for the devil made me do it, the conjuring movie. Yep, I told you. I had no idea. This is 2021. I had no idea this is so much. There's so many. There's like 18, right? 19 movies. There's so, I don't, dude, how many, how many, let's be the last thing we find up for the episode ends. How many movies in the Warren's crazy? Cinematic universe.

Like this movie 10 movies The devil made me do it Cost $39 million to make And made $206 million That's disgusting That's crazy That's money

That's money All right And up until 2019 Lorraine was a consultant On every single one Until she died Absolutely insane We'll see you next week

Thank you all so much for being here We'll be back We'll have to do a minisot for Patreon.com Appreciate you love you Goodbye Come back to the Jolumani podcast. As always, I'm one of your hosts, Mike Martin, joined by the Terrence Hill and Bud Spencer.

No. Eo and Trinity. No. I don't understand, and I probably never will. Let me just tell you right now that there's two. I'm telling you, I think he literally just looked up, famous duos. Cheech and Chich and Chau. And he's been going through the list ever since.

I'm trying to dig deep. Each one of you is Dick Powell. Me? Your name's Jesse Kahn. A naughty podcast. As always, I'm one of your host, Mike Martin, joined by Alex and Jesse.