Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 335: Mathas vs. The Warrens Part 3

Episode Date: February 1, 2026

Mathas tells the boys all about Ed and Lorraine Warrens' actual motives and misdoings in the finale of this multiparter.CHILLUMINATI is a weekly comedy podcast hosted by Mike Martin, Jesse Cox and Alex Faciane. Hold on to your tin-foil hats and traverse the realms of the mysterious, supernatural, spooky and sometimes truly horrible - and your third eye will never be the same!Subscribe to our Patreon to support us and for extra content like full video episodes, weekly Minisodes, exclusive art, and more at http://patreon.com/CHILLUMINATIPODThank you to our sponsors:Download Cash App Today: [https://capl.onelink.me/vFut/eikoiw62] #CashAppPod. Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App’s bank partner(s). Prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC. See terms and conditions at https://cash.app/legal/us/en-us/card-agreement. Cash App Green, overdraft coverage, borrow, cash back offers and promotions provided by Cash App, a Block, Inc. brand. Visit http://cash.app/legal/podcast for full disclosures.Mike Martin - http://www.youtube.com/@themoleculemindset Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - https://www.youtube.com/@StarWarsOldCanonBookClub/Editor: DeanCutty Producer: Hilde @ https://bsky.app/profile/heksen.bsky.social Show Art: Studio Melectro @ http://www.instagram.com/studio_melectro Logo Design: Shawn JPB @ https://twitter.com/JetpackBragginSHOW NOTES:The main source used in this episode is "The Demonologist: The Extraordinary Career of Ed and Lorraine Warren" by Gerald Brittle

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Chulamani podcast, episode 335. As always, I'm one of your host, Mike Martin, and joined by my two beautiful boys, Jesse and Alex. What? That's nice. That was just nice and just nice, just complimentary. It is a nice intro today, right? I like that. Beautiful boys.

It's going to be kind of, I don't want to say a rough episode. Handsome men. Handsome men, beautiful boys. We're not rugged, individualistic gents. Bad dudes. Lourious lads. Luxurious. I like that.

I don't know if there's luxurious. I don't know if I would do. I just this week learned what Pucci is. What? I don't know what. Oh, of course you don't because it is an Italian brand of clothing that is for the ultra rich where a shirt costs $2,000. Of course you don't know. I didn't know.

I just learned it. And I thought, well, shouldn't that be Gucci? No, there's Gucci and Pucci. We are that out. Is Pucci nice? I don't know. It's like a night. Founded by a guy in 1947 in Italy.

I'll let you figure out. the rest from there. Well, at least it's got a pedigree. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't. I learned about it. So that's a thing. Is it expensive? Yes, dude. Yes. All right. Sorry. It's not for us. It's not for us. You know, Pucci does sound like something that would be made for us. The dude who went back to his home planet on the Simpsons. Pucci was not welcome by the fans. No, no one welcomed Pucci. I don't watch the Simpsons. So I don't know what that is. Dude, I am. who are you bro how are you still surprised

who even are you dude I thought you like poochie dude I thought you love the anime at that age yo what anime were you watching at that age probably the same ones I'm assuming like 14

we're talking like 14 15 years old I don't know what anime were you watching at that age I'm asking at the age you think you would watch Simpsons you can you name it serial experiments lane all the weird

all the weird ones that explains a lot about you okay yes yes it does yes it explains almost everything actually. It's funny that you don't often say like when I'm like, I can't believe you haven't seen that movie that you're like, I've watched anime,

but I guess you have. Yeah. I mean, I used to that. I mean, there was some things I was taking in, mostly anime and video games. And that was kind of the extent of it.

And then on when the internet was around, message boards, talking about anime video games and aliens and paranormal stuff mostly. Role playing. Oh yeah. Big time. We were talking about what the nerdiest thing that we did was on Superbeard. rose the other day, like in our lives, like what we think the nerdiest moment, a single moment

in our lives. And I said role playing on red wall forums. It's phenomenal. LARPing for me, 100%. Larping is like, it's the same. I was like, it was like larping, but I just couldn't go anywhere. It was like the same. Yeah. Exactly. Oh, you, Jesse. It was the nerdiest you thing, the thing you've ever done. The nerdyest, probably this podcast. All right. I, what's your last? I don't know about that. I'm body. I don't know about you guys, but I'm not. I'm not. I'm, really cool. I don't know about you guys, but I'm super cool. So, so I'm cool. So, you learned if you want to fund your coolness, go to Patreon. I don't know what the segue is here. If you want to fund your coolness, if you want to fund my coolness, if you want to

just fund my fullness, if you want to fund my ability to eat food and live in a house in one of the poorly insulated houses that's here in Los Angeles. So that when it's 50 degrees, the winds howl through my walls and chill me to the bone. That's just smitty, brother. Yeah. Oh, yeah, it's him. No, Smitty actually right now, I'm not even going to like tempt fate because I remember to close the windows before the episode and he is like a sleep. So I am like just we're this is the best thing that's ever happened. I'm not even the guy talking today that much. So I feel great. Yeah, it's going to be a nice smooth episode. I'm excited. Should we just jump right in to park three of the warrens and get the sucker wrap up? Here's my hesitation is that I know that this is going to be a big bummer, isn't it? It's certainly going to be a bummer. We've had bigger bummers. Bummer from what, though? Like, based on everything we know, we already know it's a bum. It's a bull crap for the law. Let's see if it can get worse.

Let's see if it can get worse. Moving back in a part three. Oh, I forgot about their man. Yeah. Oh, no. Oh, no. Yeah. Last week.

It wasn't a man toy. It was a girl toy. It's a girl toy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. He was the man who needed a toy. Hmm. You know, let's never do that again.

Okay. Well, last week, we left you off on the cliffhanger because we walked you through. Amityville revisited through their eyes and Enfield revisited through their eyes. And we talked about how they operated with the press conferences, the religious provocation, the way Ed Warren would walk into a house, spend an afternoon there and walk out with a story that would sell millions of books. And we ended talking about the last big one, the devil made me do it, if we remember correctly. Yes.

Because this is the one that goes through and bridges everything that we've been talking about and moves Ed Warren's theology. into the land of the American legal system. That's what the devil made me do. It really does. Because unlike a ghost story told on the talk show where he had free reign to say whatever the hell he wanted without consequence, when he was brought into a courtroom, he required evidence for his supposed claims. He needed facts.

It required a judge who was willing to listen to what he said that a demon from hell was the actual thing that committed a felony. this is the story of the demonic. He had to go forward into 2025 to today. Exactly. To find that judge. And this is the first time in the United States, in the United States history that a defense attorney stood before a judge

and officially filed a plea for not guilty by reason of demonic possession. So, you know, real history being made here. As my eye is twitching, the demons are trying to stop me from reading. No, don't tell the truth. Stop him. Close his eye.

Close his right eye. Just particularly the right eye. It won't stop me from reading, but it'll make it more inconvenient. So we're in the summer of 1980 in Brookfield, Connecticut for this. Brookfield is like one of those quiet neighborhoods. It's kind of the New England town where the police blotters mostly noise and bounce complaints about lost dogs. You have the neighborhood app nowadays.

It's like the people in the neighborhood who are just bitching about why somebody's walking their dog at 9 p.m. I mean, that's why I don't have that app. Right, exactly. Specifically for that. I don't have it. Do you have it, Alex? I've, okay. So, like, my mom has it, has it. And I've been on it a couple times.

The no, the whole vibe of it is not my zone. Like I already, Tatletail the app. We, like, I already smoke weed and, like, look around out my windows. So I already have my own little ideas, but what happens in my neighborhood. I don't need to, like, talk to, like,

five other people that are thinking some other crazy bullshit also. That's, that to me, I'm going to be like, I'm like, a trash can is going to fall over. And I'm going to, like, purchase a gun. Like that's what's going to happen if I get on the fucking neighbor app. Download neighborhood and you get redpilled? Yeah. Like, I mean, like more like more like you know that movie with Julianne Moore where she just like doesn't go outside? No. Well. Thank you so much to Cash app for sponsoring

today's episode. And if you're like me and you know, the world you exist in, whether it be work or other eyes, takes up a ton of your time and it makes the outside world disappear. Eventually though, you kind of have to reemerge, look for food. Whether it's grabbing a late night bite in your nearby neighborhood or splitting the cost of some weird vintage equipment with the studio guys like I do, which is something I don't tell them about. I don't want to deal with the mystery of who owes what. Listen, it's just, it's easier this way.

I've been using Cash App for a while now because it just works. It's how I pay back my friends instantly without any of the awkwardness, whether it's like for a coffee during a long recording session or splitting a dinner bill. It's my go-to for moving money around effortlessly. I use this, and it's just been making my life so much. easier and you should too. You just download the app, set up your profile, and you're just ready to go and make splitting the cost of life's weird moments simple. Plus, when you use our code, you're supporting the show while making your own life a lot easier. Download Cash App today in the App Store or Google Play Store. Use code chill when you sign up to get started. That's code C-H-I-L. Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Bank. Bank. Banking services provided by Cash App Bank Partners, Dependant C-C-Bent Cardness. See Terms and Conditions at Cash. slash legal slash U.S. slash E.N. dash U.S.

slash card agreement. See, terms and conditions and link below. Cash app, green, overdraft coverage, borrow cash app, cashback offers and promotions provided by Cash App, a block, ink, brand. Visitache.c.com slash legal slash podcast for full disclosure.

Thank you again to cash app for sponsoring video. It's like that movie, but. Yes, the wrong guy. You have a lot more work to do than I. You only does anime. You don't get it. You have a lot more work to do than I to understand that reference. Yeah.

Is it like that video game for the PS2 where you're trying to direct a woman via voice? commands from a room you can't leave on how to move around. Except it's your own body. Except it's your own body. Oh, that's weird. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, here, uh, this town, nothing happened. This is a town where nothing happened. And this is where we meet an 11 year old boy by the name of David Glatzel. Normal kid. Baseball, rides his bike, you know, normal stuff.

Uh, he has some learning disabilities, but nothing severe. He's described by people who knew him as a quote unquote chubby sweet little boy. Uh, the kind of kid who needs extra help in school. right me now. Why did you take on like a witch's voice? Why did you like talk like a witch when you said that? Why were you like, I'm trying to defraging myself.

A sweet little boy. Okay. I was taking on the witch who was like going to plump him up. Yeah, that's what I said. It sounds like you were going to eat him. Yeah, I don't know.

Because he's a sweet little boy. He's a sweet little boy. His older sister Debbie is dating a guy at this time by the name of Arnie Johnson. Arnie is 19 and works as a tree surgeon, which is kind of just a fancy way of saying he cuts down trees for a living. and by all accounts seemingly a good guy, hard worker, loves Debbie.

Arnie and Debbie are planning to move in together. They find a rental property and nearby Newton, a big old farmhouse, a bit of a fixer upper at the time. So like good protective tenants, they go over to clean the place up before they move in. They bring little brother David along to help. While Arne and Debbie are scrubbing floors and clearing out dust, David wanders off to kind of explore. He goes into the master bedroom.

And a few minutes later, he comes running out. He is hysterical, terrified, crying, shaking. He tells Arnie and Debbie that he saw a quote unquote old man in the room. And this is the part where the kid says he saw a shadow or a monster. But David was very specific when he was recounting this. He said it was very much an old man appeared to him on the waterbed that had been left in the room from the tenants previous to them buying it. He left behind a waterbed? Yeah.

Oh, all right. Like 1980, like waterbeds are way more popular. And I can't imagine moving and having to like take a water bed. You do you have to drain that out. It's wherever you put it. Yeah. Like how do you move a water bed? Fair enough.

Fair enough. Drain all the water and then. It's just like a slightly off putting item. I don't know. There's something weird if I, oh, they left behind their water bed. It's kind of nasty. And I would not want to sleep on that water bed.

Alex, this is how I want you to put on your. best 11 year old boy voice and this is what he said he saw he had a ruddy complexion he was wearing a flannel shirt and torn trousers but then his face changed it transformed into something monstrous he pointed a finger at me and said beware very scary right the apparently the the entity continued to tell david that if the family moved into this house they would all be harmed and so arnie and debby thought David was making it up. You know, a little kid, overactive imagination,

dark room, wandering alone. They thought he was trying to get out of doing. Yeah, yeah, well, hey, you know, I don't know. Maybe it's just how kids talked back in 1980. I wasn't alive yet. They said, what's radical, dude?

They said, tubular brother. That's runtastic. I had a ruddy complexion from drinking all those bruskeys last night. It left me with a ruddy complexion. Well, okay, they thought he was trying, they said he was trying to get out of maybe getting out of doing chores or maybe they, he didn't just didn't want his sister moving away. So they ignored him, kept cleaning and Dave, but David refused to back to go back into that room.

He was very adamant that there was an old man in there that freaked him the fuck out. The family, the family eventually decided not to move into the rental house, mostly because David seemingly was so traumatized by it. Over the days as they prepped, it didn't, like, he was just hysterical that this thing was there. And David claimed that this old man actually followed him home. The phenomenon that David Glatzel experienced over the next few months are intense, if you believe the family's account, that is. David began to see the old man everywhere. But now the entity wasn't just warning him.

It had started to attack him. David said he would wake up in the middle of the night screaming that this old man was choking him. He would point to empty corners of the room and describe the horrific figure that would that no one else seemingly could see. He described a man with big black eyes, a thin face with animal features, big jagged teeth, pointed ears, horns, and hooves. And now this old man is known as a horse. Oh, yeah, okay. He started calling him the beast. Yeah, the horse. He's actually just the ghost of a horse. Of a dead horse. Yeah. That's, you know what? That's fun. Yeah. It makes sense, you know, like, where are all the ghost horses?

Right, and they were moving into an old barn house. So like it makes sense, dead horse. Yeah. He had a ruddy complexion. In a ruddy complexion, exactly. To them, this was like a standard issue demon, almost like he was reading a description from a comic book, the clove and hoves, the horns, thin face, you know. Just looking at a picture. He has a great phrase.

He has a red suit. He buys his cane from the same place Mr. Peanut does. Literally. And he trades in souls. How many times have we given the description of like a classic demon and called it like that? We did that not too long ago with Springheel Jack. It was very similar like that classic devil demon form. Yeah, like the guy who looks like his name is like.

Lius. Elias. Yeah, scratch. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Again, it was so dead on. It was almost like someone had told him exactly what a demon was supposed to look like. I said that that way, so you would hold on to that thought.

The physical symptoms started next. David began to gain weight rapidly. His parents claimed he would growl, hiss, and speaking voices that weren't his own. And at one point, he began reciting passages from Paradise Lost, John Milton's epic poem about the fall of Lucifer. Oh, and that's canonical to the Bible. No. And not just fan fiction. It's, I mean, it's like a little more than fan fiction.

It's like love it. It's their favorite novelization of hell. You know how like 50 Shades of Gray started as like a as like a twilight? Same thing. That's milk. Yeah. That's basically Milton. Milton and Dante are basically twilight.

Except you, I had to try to study that book three times. I had to go to that class three full different times to get through it. Did it work? Yeah. Milton and Dante are like that fantasy TikTok stuff, Romanticy. Romanticy.

I love that. Book talk. Milton is book talk. Yeah, for sure. Cornish McCarthy has read it. Milton is book talk. You have to remember at this time, David is only 11 years old. So, you know, it's under, supposedly he wasn't reading 17th century epic poetry in his spare

time. But witnesses claim that he would quote long, complex passages perfectly in a voice that sounded like a guttural growl. He would be sitting at the kitchen table and suddenly his body would go rigid and he would be thrown out of his chair by an invisible force. That's just, that's just being a teenager. Oh, that happened. you as a teenager too?

Yeah, I would randomly go rigid and be thrown around by some sort of force. I'd randomly go rigid all the time when I was a teen. Yeah, I mean, that's just team. That's just being a teenage boy. And figuratively, I was thrown around constantly. Yeah. I didn't know which way it was up. It was wild.

I was just a tornado. I just wait to get rigid and I would know. Yeah. See, you just got to use the disadvantages you're given as advantages. Don't shake your head like that. I can. I will. I'm ashamed for us all.

His mother, Judy Glatzel, started getting terrified. And she was a Catholic. This was a Catholic family. At this time, New England is very Catholic. And she did what any good Catholic family would do. She called a priest. And a priest came to the house to bless it. During the blessing, David was reportedly thrown across the room.

The priest realizing this was above his pay grade, told the family they needed experts, and they needed people who understood this kind of darkness. And who else did he say to call? but Ed and Lorraine Warren. That's my genuine favorite bit about all this is the fact that a priest whose whole deal is this is like, no, this is about my pay grade.

You have to call these other people that have nothing to do with anything that's going on here. They'll handle it. I'm going back to the church to, I don't know, drink wine. I got mass in two hours. I got to get that. Shutouts.

Dude, I called. I asked if anybody in the clergy who listens to the show would reply to our show last week. And somebody totally did. Yes, they did on our Reddit. Fucking phenomenal post. If you have a chance, head over there and check that out this week.

It is literally so good. Yeah, that's pretty cool. I don't have the name in front of me. Let me get it really quick. I'm pretty sure Fate posted it. Okay, yeah, that's great then. But I mean, that's so crazy, right? There is a lot to it.

There's a lot to it. And obviously, the different branches of Christianity have their own different ways of handling it. But yeah, definitely give it a good read. Maybe we'll talk about it in the minisode today. Anyway, they call Ed and Lorraine Warren, and they arrive in Brookfield, and they did exactly what they always do when we've learned that they've done at this point. Ed interviewed the family. Lorraine used her clairvoyant gifts to tune into the entity. Lorraine claimed she saw a black mist hovering next to David.

She said she could feel the presence of something incredibly powerful and incredibly angry. Ed, in his typical fashion at this point, diagnosed a situation immediately. This wasn't a ghost. It wasn't even a poltergeist. Of course, he declared that it could be not. nothing else, but 43 demons possessing David Glatzel. At one time? All at once. Did he use his polodex to find them all? He just knew.

With the hell, well, Lorraine is his living polodex. Lorraine walks in, she starts doing the psychic thing. They start working together. Bam, 43 demons. She said, Labubu, the Pizzou, Pocahizu, the Pizzou, Pokemon. Exactly correct. Ed claimed that he demanded the names and the entity gave them

up and he had a list he had evidence everything he seemingly needed but this is where the story shifts from your what we've heard to something more dangerous because ed warren at this point began educating glatzel and i say that with air quotes that you can't read that i put into my script does that mean kissing or like what does that mean like kissing no no no he doesn't kiss the little boy um this is remember i said earlier remember that thought he's reciting these the specific demon features very, very specifically. So you're saying that he told him what to say. Insinuated heavily to tell for David what to say. It's like the families with the boys that like had the near death experience and he was like, Jesus was there. And only people who prayed were there. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. In the book, the demonologist, Ed Warren explains, remember, we went over this. That he explains his theory of demonic activity in detail, the three different phases, infestation, oppression, possession. And he began to explain all three of these in detail. to this 11 year old boy. He sat down with David Gladsell and walked him through exactly what was happening to him, or David really even knew what was happening to him. He told David what stage he was in. He told David what symptoms he was experiencing and what symptoms he should expect to happen next.

He told David what the demons would do, how they would act and what they would say. he basically gave this 11 year old boy a script for how this possession was going to go. Kind of whack. Because David Glatzel has an older brother that we haven't mentioned named Carl at this point. And Carl Glatzel has spent the last 40 years saying that everything about the devil made me do it, the whole case, the movie, all that stuff is an out and out lie. Carl Glatzel never minced words. In interviews, in lawsuits, in public statements, you can see this stuff everywhere. He's maintained one consistent position.

His little brother was never once possessed by demons. David was suffering from mental health issues. Remember, he had learning disabilities. He had emotional regulation problems. He needed mental health, help, and a doctor. But instead, he got fucking Ed Warren to. help him out. And according to Carl, their mother, Judy, never believed in demons before she met the Warrens. She was a Catholic, yeah, but she wasn't like a holy warrior. So he like scared the shit

out of her and just like put the fear of like not God in her? Correct. Like she she wasn't somebody that saw Satan behind every fucking shadow. But that all changed after and Lorraine Warren showed up. Carl said that while David was certainly acting up before the Warren's arrived, it was only after Ed Warren walked David through David, walked David through the symptoms of possession that David started acting possessed. That all these things that supposedly started happening after the hall, like the visit to the old barn, he saw the old man,

that's actually didn't happen until Ed showed up, even if that's not the story they actually give. Ed Warren shows up according to Carl. He sits down with the troubled 11 year old. He explains again, detail what demons do. The growling, he explains, the cursing, the thrashing. He asks very leading questions according to Carl, basically just telling David what's happening to him. And then David starts doing exactly those things. And from Carl's perspective, the Warrens gave his brother

the walkthrough on how to put on a show. You know, Carl, ruddy, ruddy. Ruddy, ruddy, dude, ruddy demons. That is like 100% something an older adult says, no child has ever use the phrase ruddy to describe anything. There's a lot about the way David speaks. That seems very often about how he is. He was a rather or an re demon. Yeah, he gave him a tutorial on how to do this shit. And then after that first time, they came back every day for a week and recorded the show,

the entire show. Every day for a week? For a week. Everyone in the room got exactly what they wanted. David got a lot of attention. He got praise for the first time in his life. People were paying attention to him positively, treating him like he was special,

and the Warrens got a week's worth of fucking evidence. But Carl pointed to one incident that to him proved the whole thing was just an act. One night after the Warrens weren't coming around as much, but before the formal exorcisms began, David was doing his whole show at home. He was cursing at his mother. He was growling.

He was making a scene. And apparently he was going too far, saying things that were, quote, really out of school from David about his mom. He was like personally go like insulting his mom about everything. Like like beyond what a kid would say or like imagine like a kid who's maybe like a little bit emotionally and mentally like needs a little bit of help. And he gets a free pass to say whatever he wants about anybody he wants because it's demons not him. Right. And that goes on for a week. and he's like insulting his mom and like, you know, calling her bitch and all this stuff.

Like way out of line, essentially, especially. You know what's really funny is knowing for a fact that if this was me as a child and I did all this, my dad, demon or not would have slapped the shit out of me and then been like, I'm getting the belt, boy. Like he would like, like how dare you talk to your mother like that? There's no way that I. This is me going, hold that thought. I would have been like, I'm fine.

I'm not lying, I'm lying, I'm not. Because something I also didn't mention is during a lot of these outbursts, his dad wasn't home very often. Because his dad worked two jobs. He was almost never around. But on this night, he was home and he was there. When he saw that happen, he immediately had enough. His father stood up, walked over to his son and slapped him across the face. Absolutely.

Like I, there's no reality in which a dad watches a kid absolutely just cuss out a like, no, dude. No. Carl immediately says this is what, quote, he clocked him on the side of the head, threw him back down and miraculously, miraculously, my brother David was no longer possessed. Crazy how that is. He hit him with the head rod, dude.

He slapped the demon right out of him. Yeah, God was acting through. Yeah. His father is Don't. Honestly, that's on the warden should have spun that. God. God is based on the warrants. His dad was like, I'm none of this.

I'm fucking sick of this shit. You've been doing this to your mother while I've been at work? No more. Wham! They should make, they should make, they should make like a platinum game where you're like a priest and you beat the devil out of people. It's called bayonetta.

I mean, sort of. You're more like, you more like beat the angels out of people. That's true. That's true. You're actually being the angel out of people. people. That is genuinely, I'm writing that down as a note as like a quick game to make where it's just called pre-slapper and you're a priest and people come to you and they're like freaking out and you just slap them. You smack the shit out of them. That would be hilarious.

Yeah. It's like that scene from Kingsman but forever and they just curing people of continuing. Caring people of like possession. They walk away like all together. They like walk to lock away all like dressed and shit. I just imagine this moment as when David gets slapped. He just falls his eyes get big and watery and they get that very cartoonish like glistening in his eyes. Like, oh my God. I would, you know, you know, so I'm really behind gentle parenting, but every once in a while. So I just like this, you just need a little bit of a way.

Yeah. I don't think it's not about the style of parenting. It's like just knowing dads, there's no way they tolerate that shit. The further back in time you go when you say something about your mother, your dad's going to hit you the more likely that the year, the further year. the further year back, the more likely dad's going to hit you until at some point, the dad just starts hitting you before you even start talking. And then then that's when everybody was a serial killer cowboy in the Chulamani lore. Yeah. Yeah, true, true. I mean, it became apparent from this point, you know, that it's strange that the devil only seemed to show up when David's father

happened to be at work on that particular night. The demon that had possessed the child that had threatened the entire family that required 43 demonic names and multiple exorcisms from the warrants to combat, that demon has apparently terrified of his pissed off father. 43 demonic names that demon was messing with him. Carl Glatzel's interpretation was very simple, that David was just a troubled kid, acting out for attention, and when there were no consequences, they had behavior not only continued but ramped up. And when there were consequences, real immediate physically demanding consequences, the behavior just stopped.

Oh my God. So you imagine if something like that was president, dude? That'd be crazy. That'd be nuts, bro. Like a little kid like that? That'd be so weird. And after their mother died, Carl went through their belongings. Judy Glatzel was by all accounts just an obsessive note taker about everything he realized.

She documented everything. And among her papers, Carl found notes from around the time of the position. Notesion notes about quote unquote medicine. According to Carl, his mother overwhelmed with a large family and a husband who was never around from working two jobs had been drugging her children with a sleeping aid called Samanex. What the fuck are you talking about? Sominx, by the way, was an over-the-counter sleep aid very common in the 1970s that you

could just buy at a pharmacy. It wasn't anything crazy. Carl, but obviously Carl. Except that it was, except that it was something. Very crazy. I mean, you could buy Soman exit target right now. There you go. Carl's evidence was circumstantial at this point because there's no physical evidence that that was happening.

He does, he remembered that his mother always fed the family from a large communal bowl. Everyone ate from the same pot, but she always made a small separate plate for herself, saying things like, oh, I don't eat any of that or I don't like Stroganov or whatever the dish was. Now, obviously, I could not find any independent verification of Carl's claims about the drugging. but he pointed to something that made him suspicious. The long-term side effects of Somen X, at least the 17th, 1970s formulation, which is different,

did include emotional instability, hallucinations, and weight gain. Okay. And David Glatzel was having all of those things, if you believe him at face value, like these things were happening. That is fucking crazy. So you have two possible explanations for what happened.

Explanation one. Feeding our kids, like drugs. every day. Yeah, yeah. Mama needed her time for her stories. You don't know. Like, I don't have to tell you. I don't know. Like, I don't know if it was understood at that time. Oh, it probably was. I think she was like, I don't know. I have to take care of these kids by myself. No, I don't. Nobody's sleeping. That's like, she was overwhelmed. She's home all the time. That's like what I imagine. And that like makes me

more grossed out than like any other explanation is that she was just like, well, I'll just turn the kids off for a while. Yeah. That's, I mean, that's what people do. when they give them an iPad. I guess. Yeah. I, yeah, true.

I kind of in a weird way, right? It's like a different way of just doing that. I'd rather give him the iPad. I mean, yeah, because you're not drugging them,

but like, maybe you are, dude. Yeah, you are. You are right. I kind of am. But we're basically left

with like two explanations. Well, three, technically, if you count him actually being possessed as a real explanation, but the two being just kind of a kid who needed it,

like was lacking attention, acting out, kind of had a free pass, or a kid who is being drugged and having real hallucinations about this stuff and, you know, having the side effects of Sominex in his system every fucking night when he went to bed or whatever. I don't know which one you think sounds more plausible or not. But regardless of what was really happening to David Glatzel,

the consequences of his possession were actually about to become very real. Because present for almost all of the exorcisms was the boyfriend of sister Arnie Johnson. Arnie was there because he loved Debbie. He wanted to support her family. He was a 19-year-old kid watching his girlfriend's little brother get tortured, whether by demons or by the adults around him, depending on your interpretation. And he watched David convulsed. He watched him spit in his.

He watched him being held down by grown men while a priest threw holy water on him. And Ardy couldn't take it anymore. It's October 1980 still. And during one of these violent episodes, David is thrashing on the bed. He's screaming. The entity is supposedly in full control. Arnie is in the room helping hold David down. He's exhausted, angry, and in a moment of desperate bravado,

where you got to keep in mind, Arnie fully believes this is all really happening. Arne looks directly at David, or rather the thing Ed Warren has told him is inside David, and he screams in that boy's face, leave him alone. Take me. Take me instead.

I'll be the one. He tries to sacrifice himself. He pulls him at this. Yeah. Yeah, he tried to do it me, but he didn't negotiate for any powers. He wasn't thirsty enough. Yeah.

No, he wasn't thirsty enough. And so yeah, he like whatever tried. Witnesses in the room, including Ed and Lorraine, claim that everything suddenly stopped that David went limp. The growling ceased the room dead silent. And Ed Warren looked at Arnie with horror and said, you don't know what you've done. Very spooky. Ed claimed that by issuing that challenge, take me on.

Arnie had given the demon legal permission to enter him. Because remember, there is a structure, a legal structure at which the demons possess for some reason, according to Ed, and that he had opened the door and invited it in. And from that day forward, David Glatzel got better. According to the Ed and Lorraine, Warren version of the story, not according to the Carl story where he gets slapped by his dad. He just gets punched in the face. He just gets slapped by his dad. The nightmare stopped and the growling stopped and the key supposedly just went back to being a normal kid. But Arnie Johnson started to change.

Arnie had always been a happy-go-lucky guy, pretty easy going, but in the weeks following this challenge, his personality shifted. He became withdrawn, moody, he started growling at people. He would fall into trances and stare at nothing for hours. Debbie said Arnie would come home from work and say he felt like something was watching him. He said he saw The Beast now, the same creature David had described. One day, Arnie drove his car into a tree. He wasn't drunk. The road was drunk.

dry, he just claimed the steering wheel turned by itself. He claimed a demon took control of the car and tried to kill him. Ed Warren told the family, the possession is transferred. It's an Arnie now. But nobody did anything. There were no exorcisms for Arnie. No priest came dressed Arne. This is new lore now.

They can jump from body to body like rates. This is where the devil made me do it. Story is though. The focus had been on saving that little to David, the little boy. Now that the boy was safe. Everyone just sort of hoped Arnie was just having a bad time or a bad month until February 16th, 1981. Arne and Debbie had, listen, we got to keep moving.

I love the idea that like, man possessed by demons is crushing his card and trees. He's having a bad month. He must be having a rough one, guys. Let's steer clear for a couple days. Thoughts and prayers off to him. He'll be all right. Arne and Debbie had moved out of her parents' house and now we're living in an apartment

above a kennel in Brookfield. Debbie worked at the kennel as a dog groomer, and the kennel was owned by a man named Alan Bono. Alan was 40 years old. He was the landlord. He was also, by many accounts, a heavy drinker. And according to Carl, there were rumors that Alan and Debbie had something going on, a work wife, work husband situation, quote unquote,

that made Arnie uncomfortable. On February 16th, Arnie called in sick to work. He spent the day hanging out with Debbie and some family members at the kennel. Alan Bono took the group out for lunch. They went to a local bar and they drank a lot. Bono got drunk, Arnie got drunk. When they got back to the kennel, things got ugly. An argument started, and this wasn't about demons.

It was about something totally mundane. Bono grabbed Debbie's nine-year-old cousin Mary who was visiting and he wouldn't let go. Arnie stepped in and told him to release the girl. The shouting escalated and Bono was aggressive. And then, according to Arnie's sister Wanda, who watched the whole thing, thing. Arnie's face changed. She said he started growling like an animal. She said his eyes went wide and black. Arnie reached into his pocket and pulled out a five inch folding knife. Oh shit. And he butchered Bono. Five stab wounds to the chest. One of the wounds was so deep it extended

from Bono's stomach to the bottom of his heart. The ferocity of the attack was stunning to everybody. Like he just annihilated this guy. And then after he was dead, Arnie simply walked away. He was found about an hour later, two miles from the scene, walking down the road, and he was covered in blood. When the police picked him up, he was dazed. He asked him if Alan was okay, and he claimed he remembered nothing. The last thing he remembered was the argument starting and then walking down the road in the dark.

But there's a detail that matters to this whole thing. when Arnie Johnson was put in the back of the police cruiser, the first words out of his mouth weren't about demons. He just said, I need help because I've got a drinking problem. That was the first thing out of his mouth. That sounds like something a demon would say. Yeah. It wasn't, I was possessed.

The devil made me do it. I've got a drinking problem was actually what this guy fucking said. The movie should have been called The Alcohol Made Me Do It. Exactly. The devil's in the juice, man. Demon in a bottle? Iron man a bottle. Dude.

There you go. Gotta rub me the right way. I'm a demon. That's how I get rigid is when you love me the right way. Right. Right. Alan Bono didn't immediately die from being stabbed, but he did die at the hospital later that day.

Arnie Johnson was charged with first degree murder. And the next morning Lorraine Warren told the police exactly what happened. According to Lorraine, Arnie didn't do this. The devil made him do it. obviously the devil made me do it TM the movie that's going to come out in three years uh no they got a while before that well there was a 1993 movie made that was aired on fox if i'm remembering my research correctly oh thank god but uh the main one was 2013 is when leave it to fox man the story had to get out yep uh as soon as lorraine said those words the devil made him do it that was

it the fuse to this whole thing had just was lit uh we're also keeping mind too 1981 of the satanic panic. Like we are in it with a satanic panic. The country is primed for this shit. People are already worried about Dungeons and Dragons. Ed Warren has an advanced Dungeons and Dragons a dungeon master guide in his haunted museum. I wish that was what everybody was afraid of today.

I know. Me too. Yeah, people are scared about D&D, heavy metal, satanic cults sacrificing children and like abandoned buildings and shit. And now here is this nice looking young man. who is a tree surgeon with no criminal record who just slaughtered his landlord in broad daylight. And to the press, obviously, as everything still is, this was fucking gold.

And to Ed Warren, this was the goddamn Super Bowl. He immediately mobilized. This was, he went into PR manager mode at this point in my mind. He contacted the media. He gave interviews. He told anyone who would listen that Arnie Johnson was a victim, not a villain. He framed it as a spiritual tragedy, a young man. who had sacrificed himself to save a child only to be consumed by the very evil he had tried to fight.

And then a lawyer named Martin Manella entered the picture. And he was a colorful individual. He was a 33 year old. Manila. Yeah, true. That's not season. Man. Man.

Man. Man. And then. Jesse jokes. Too bad. Too bad even for your dad. Oh. Fuck.

He was a 33 year old attorney who saw the opportunity of. a lifetime here. He took the case and decided to lean all the way in. He was going to, he wasn't going to argue like temporary insanity and shit. This man was going in with the intent to argue that Arnie Johnson was possessed by a demon and therefore could not be held criminally liable for his actions. And Manella was very confident. He went on TV and made these claims. He said he had top experts from the Vatican who were willing to testify and he said he would subpoena priests who had performed the exorcisms. He told all this to the Washington Post.

And one quote he said to the post was, quote, the courts have dealt with the existence of God. Now they're going to have to deal with the existence of the devil. Because it's true. You are sworn on a Bible, right? If you think about it, you swear in a Bible, they tell the whole truth, blah, blah, blah. If you believe in God, do you not also have to believe in a devil?

Like, isn't that part of the bundle here? Like, I can see Manela's like, never mind the, crime. But if you're going into a U.S. court and swearing on a Bible to tell the truth, does that not imply that you also have to believe in Satan and the devil? It's interesting because the version of the devil we know technically isn't in the Bible. Yeah. And it's really Milton. And do we, do we, you could argue that same version about God, though, like the white version of Jesus is not actually the Jesus of that time. Oh, it's mostly paintings and whatever. Yeah, yeah. I, look, we're already way off the Bible anyway. Let's be real.

Anyone who's a Christian, I, my thing is, my thing is more like, be like the Bible, please. My thing is more just like, that's half the reason. Like, Jesus is fucking sick. He is a cool dude. He's a cool ass dude. Agreed. So fucking sick. And nobody acts like Jesus nowadays. And that's, that's the problem. Well, not, not nobody. Well, that's true, not nobody. A lot of people, they just, they just got a, but the people with a megaphone and with the attention of, of, you know, But I mean, I just back to the point of this, though, like, yeah, I mean, it's just an interesting thought thought experiment where Manel is coming from.

We're like, well, the court acknowledges the existence of God. So why wouldn't they acknowledge the existence of the devil? I mean, do you swear everyone in on the Bible? I don't, that's their default. I would say it's their default. If you can choose other things, I think. Right. So like technically, not necessarily do you have to bring God and the devil.

into the courtroom, but I think a lot of people probably just do without thinking about it. Especially in 1981. Yeah. But at this point, like with Manila leaning in and kind of going in with that mindset, he and the Warrens just became a team. You would see them on Good Morning America. They were in People magazine. They were holding press conferences while Ed would describe the 43 different demons.

And Manella would talk about legal precedents in England from centuries ago. Meanwhile, Arnie Johnson was sitting in jail, probably wondering how his life turned into all this. And at a press conference, but also keep in mind, like, the press conference isn't the rule of law. They're operating within the court of public opinion during the lead up to all of these proceedings. Sure. And for, and Ed Warren, for all of his bluster, was about to run into a force way more powerful than he had ever dealt with up to this point. Satan?

A superior court judge who wasn't buying any of his bullshit at all. Depending on who you ask, that may be Satan. The trial began Coxed them Got Coss. The trial began in late October 1981 in Danbury, Connecticut.

The courtroom was packed. Reporters from all over the world were there. They were waiting for the fireworks. They were waiting for a priest to take the stand, describe vomiting, spinning heads, you know, all the typical stuff you would expect of an exorcism. But the presiding judge, Robert Callahan,

was not having it. Before the trial, even really got going, Manila tried to submit his plea, not guilty by reason of demonic possession. Like I said, Judge Callahan looked at it and he simply said, no. The court will not allow the defense of demonic possession. It is irrelevant, immaterial, and unscientific. We are not going to turn this courtroom into a spectacle. Spectacle were the words of the judge. And just like that, all this buildup, the press conferences, the TV show appearances, the magazine interviews, The demon defense was dead in the water.

Nothing they could do was going to be taken seriously. The demons just because the judge was like just a hard, like a hard dude. Yep. Callahan ruled that testimony about devils, demons, or possessions would be inadmissible. He said that even if you could prove possession was real, which you can't, it wouldn't matter legally. In the eyes of the law, Arnie Johnson stabbed Alan Bono. Unless Manila could prove Arnie was medically insane, the devil. was irrelevant. Ed Warren had shown up with six priests ready to testify. All of his tapes from the

week of him being there, all the photographs. He had his whole presentation prepared and the judge wouldn't even let them through the door. Ed couldn't even walk into the powerpoint, Your Honor. Seriously, Ed wasn't even allowed in the courtroom. I made slides and microfeesh. So Manella had to pivot. He had to argue self-defense, but the self-defense argument fell apart because Arney stabbed it on our man five times with a five inch knife. It didn't look like self-defense. That's it, man. There is no

like, it doesn't matter why you did it. You did it. No, he was raging out because he had a presumed, he thought his girlfriend was sleeping or fooling around with this guy while he was at work. And Lorraine Warren, who had spent months hyping this up as the trial of the century were sidelined. They couldn't

testify about the demons. The couldn't testify about the exorcisms. The jury didn't hear about the beast or the challenge that Arnie gave the kid. They just heard about a drunk argument that turned violent. The jury deliberated for three days. And on November 24th, 1981, they came back with a verdict. Not first degree murder, but not innocent either. They found Arne Johnson guilty of manslaughter in the first degree.

He was sentenced to 10 to 25 years in prison. He ended up serving only five because he was a model prisoner. He got his high school diploma inside. He married Debbie Glatzel while he was still incarcerated. And that should have been. Damn. And that should have been the end of it. But find you a girl who be with you through demonic possession, murder and prison time.

Because that's she was. That's hardcore. Dude, she was not going anywhere. Loyal right there. But for the like while that should have been the end of it for the warrants, the verdict was just the beginning of their revenue stream, baby. While Arnie was sitting in prison, the warrens were busy. securing the legacy to the case.

They hired a writer named Gerald Brittle, the same guy who wrote the demonologist book that we used for the first two episodes, and Brittle wrote a book called The Devil in Connecticut that was published in 1983. It told the quote-unquote true story of the Glatzel haunting and the possession of Arnie Johnson. It had all the details the jury wasn't allowed to hear,

the 43 demons, the levitations, the heroics of Ed and Lorraine, the Warren's claim that all the profits from the book were being shared with the Glatzel family to help them through this difficult time. They painted themselves as charitable, helping that poor family that had been ravaged by Satan. And a TV movie was made called The Demon Murder Case starring a young Kevin Bacon. So hell. Yeah.

Yep. The demon murder case. Also, what a terrible name for a movie. Yeah, no shit. That's like when you have to read it in the fucking TV guide. So it just is called like, guy kills people. Yeah. And with this, they set the narrative, man.

The Warrens were the heroes who tried to save a young man from the forces of darkness. The legal system was the villain for refusing to believe in the spiritual war. And for 20 years, that was the history until the little boy grew up. Before we get to the lawsuit, let's talk about who actually got paid what. So the Warren's made approximately $80,000. Time out, time out, time out. Yep, yep, yep. Before we learn how much they made.

Yep. the American release of demon murder case, which by the way, I must stress Kevin Bacon, somehow in 1983 still looks like Kevin Bacon. Kevin Bacon. Yeah, he looks exactly the same. But while we got the demon murder case in 1983, there is a, a German, I think, version of this. And you need to see the cover art because this is. Was it in theaters? This is the coolest cover. art. No, not art deers. Oh my God. That's so sick. It is basically a little boy. I think. Breathing fog in demons. It looks like Osamutezka like did it or something. And weirdly, it's the same movie with Kevin Bacon. Yes. It's just it's just the German release. But weirdly like, weirdly like, even though it doesn't look like him, like I know that's Kevin Bacon. I can tell.

Yeah. Something about that art does say Kevin Bacon to me. Yeah, I could never do. I just like the name. De Holfenhard Highness Besasnin. It's all. Look, the art's awesome. It's really cool. It's so sick. It's so sick.

Okay, so how much did they make? The Warren's made approximately $80,000 from the book of the devil in Connecticut. The Glatzel family, the family whose 11-year-old son was supposedly possessed whose lives were turned upside down and supposedly this money was going to help them received $4,500. What year was it? Excellent. That's 1980, the book, 1983. So that's still not, before that.

That's still not much money even. No. After. Yeah. No. And it gets worse, obviously. Because in 2021, Warner Brothers released the conjuring, the devil made me do it. This was the third film in the main conjuring verse.

It was specifically. The main conjuring verse is the fact that it's the main one and not the nun. It's not like a side verse. It's so crazy. It's a sacred timeline of the conval. Right, right, right, right. No variance involved. What happens must happen.

What happens must happen. It was specifically about the Arne-Johnson case. It used the Glatzel family's names. It used their story. It portrayed David's possession as a fact. And the Glatzel family tried to stop it and failed. And how much money did they receive from a film that used their names, their trauma, and their family history?

You want to take a guess? $30,000. $0. Alex is correct. $0. Yo, that's not a single fucking penny. That's ruthless. Zero dollars.

And the reason? Because their mother had sold the rights when they were children. She got the $4,500 back in the 1980s and that sale covered everything, including future films that hadn't been made and the Warren's got 80 grand. The Glatso Kids got nothing. And the conjuring franchise has grossed at this point over two. billion dollars dude that's the warrens suck they fucking suck i hate them david glatzel the 11-year-old boy who was supposedly possessed by reminder 43 demons uh grew up and his older brother carl grew up

and carl was pissed in 2006 when the book the devil in connecticut was reprinted carl and david Glatzel filed a lawsuit against Ed and Lorraine Warren and the author Gerald Gerald Brittle. And what they say in the lawsuit destroys the entire devil made me do it mythology. This is where we see Carl not really mincing words on what actually happened. He said the possession never happened. And the Warren's told the family that they would. So glaring. He goes on to say, quote, the Warrens told the family that they would make us rich.

They told us we would be millionaires if we went along with the story. Carl claimed that his little brother wasn't possessed, suffering from mental illness, etc., etc. He told us we would be millions. Warren manipulated his parents. He said the Warren's concocted the demon story to capitalize on the media frenzy. He called the entire thing a hoax. He said the warrants, quote, manufactured a phony story about demons in an attempt to get rich and famous at our expense, end quote.

And David, at the boy who's at the center of it all, joined in on the lawsuit. He stated that the possession had ruined his life. Because of the book in the movie, he had been stigmatized. He couldn't get a job. People looked at him like he was a freak. He had spent his childhood being told he was a vessel for Satan when he really just needed help. And interestingly, David still believes something happened to him. He still believes he experienced something supernatural.

But he also believes the warrants exploited him and his family for profit and fame. And my more nuanced take on that is if he was having side of him, effects of somnium or whatever that medicine was called somnix somnics sorry uh then yeah i would believe maybe as a kid something paranormal was also happening to me because you're hallucinating and shit why not yeah why not yeah like why not just believe it but that it's so hard yeah so the lawsuit though the lawsuit was eventually settled out of court the terms were undisclosed but the devil in uh in connecticut went out of print carl glatzel's final assessment of the warrens is this following Quote, they are not spiritual warriors.

They are predators. They prey on vulnerable families. They exploit mental illness. And they ruin lives to sell books. Pretty, uh, pretty indicting. Uh, pretty devastating, uh, review. I think so far everyone that we've talked to, most people that interacted with them were like, what they just said is not real.

Correct. It's most, that's the case, except for Amityville so far, really. Um, but this, that's a great thing to that. This is a great segue, Jesse, to this point because Arnie Johnson and Debbie Glatzel stuck to the Warren story despite all this. Arnie and Debbie have maintained to this day that the possession was real. They appeared in the documentary series about the case and they supported the conjuring film. They never wavered. But you have to kind of consider their position.

Arnie killed a man. He served time for manslaughter. If he admits the possession was fake, then he's just a guy who got drunk and stabbed. his landlord to death. Right. So he has to, yeah. He literally can't admit that like it was anything other than the demon. It's literally his identity now for the rest of his life.

It's the only way the story makes sense where he's not a full on murder. This goes back to all the conversations we have in the past about like, why would someone keep saying this when it seems not true? And yeah, the sunk cost of all these kinds of people who are just like, this is who I am now. And if I say something else, I am done. Yep, you're done. It undoes everything. Even if it hurts you, even if it hurts you, it's better than the reality of everyone finding out your liar. That's like the trap that like almost every single person is in who's in one. Yeah. Yeah. Like nobody like stands by their lives. They just have to. They have to.

Exactly correct. And up to this point, you know, we've really demonstrated. I think we've demonstrated well how big how big of a business fraud the warrants are and there's so much more about the legal stuff that I'm leaving on the floor here about the specifics about how them and their lawyers and other people they fucked over in various different ways and how one of the ways they weasled out of paying people is by saying it was based on a true story and since it's a true story you can't copyright like that's and so like that kind of shit are you kidding me and we can do a whole other episode about that and I don't want to do that that is like that is like Next level, scummy.

What? I will urge you all to go read, read up on these people and learn about the legal bullshit that they went through and the numerous people that were fucked over in the process. To give a kind of nice ending, though, Ed died just as the lawsuit came to a close. So like, he lived long enough to find out he didn't fully win his lawsuit case for like in 06 for all this like money stuff with the glatzels. And after that ended he died.

So like he, you know, nice little end of the story that Ed didn't get to enjoy success at the very end of his life. But Lorraine kept living for quite some time. But all this brings us to the real final piece of this entire series, the real reason that I loathe the Warrens for everything that they are and maybe the most uncomfortable part of the series from this point on. Because we have spent these past three episodes talking about Annabelle, Annabedville, Enfield, Devil made me do it in smaller cases, talked about the demonologist, the book,

Lorraine is the clairvoyant. but we haven't talked about Ed the man and Lorraine and the woman. Ed the man and Lorraine the woman. Because behind all his nonsense, behind his lectures and all the stuff, there was a private life. And that private life was reportedly very, very different from the pious image they presented to the world. So we need to talk about Judith Penny. Oh, man. To understand what we're about to discuss.

We have to look at the people who are actually living inside the Warren machine. Because while they were selling the image of the demonologist and the clairvoyant in their biography and all the shit, this Catholic couple fighting the forces of darkness, their actual domestic life was operating on a very different set of rules. It starts with their daughter, Judy. If you've seen the movies, you probably have a specific image of Judy Warren because they often portray her in the movies as a little girl in a nightgown, living in a house filled with haunted artifacts,

constantly under siege by spirits, but her loving parents protect her with their faith and their magic Christian powers. But reality is that Judy Warren barely actually lived there. Judy spent the majority of her childhood living with her grandparents in Bridgeport. She was not part of the spectacle or the show. And Lorraine Warren were always on the road.

It's a reason I didn't bring up Judy mostly in the first two episodes because they weren't, they didn't keep her as part of their life when it came to this stuff. She wasn't part of their pitch of their brand. They were hustling, especially in the early days before the ghost paid the bills. Ed was still selling his paintings creepily on the other side of the street. And later, it was the lecture circuit, colleges and universities and police departments that started paying the bills.

But Judy, for all intents and purposes, was raised by her grandmother, Georgiana. And when she did visit her parents, she was scared. She later admitted in interviews that she couldn't sleep in that house. She was scared of every artifact. She was scared of the constant talk of demons. She described a childhood where she felt like an outsider in her own parents' life. She didn't even know what they did for a living for a long time. Ed lied to her.

He told her he was a landscape artist even when that was no longer what he was doing. She only found out the truth when she was a teenager and started hearing other kids at school talk about her crazy parents. Dude. Like she wasn't part of this. They kept her out of all of it. It was just like they made sure it was just a couple. the two of them on a mission and a daughter who was basically just going to stay away from it as far as possible.

But then the family expanded in a way most people weren't comfortable. We're going back to 1963. We are way before Amityville. We are before the talk shows. Ed Warren is only 37 years old. He isn't famous yet. He's working day jobs to meet ends meet. And one of those jobs is driving a bus in Monroe, Connecticut.

Every day, he drives a route that takes students to high school. And one of the passengers on that bus is a 15-year-old girl named Judith Penny. No. She has the same first name as his daughter. Fucking weird. Just moving forward, just keeping that in mind. We need to roll back now to 1963. We're way before Amityville.

We're way before the talk shows. Ed Warren is 37 years old. He isn't famous yet. He's still doing. day jobs basically to meet ends meet. And one of those jobs is driving a bus in Monroe, Connecticut. And every day, he drives a route that takes students to high school. And one of the passengers on that bus is a 15-year-old girl named Judith Penny, whose first name is the same as his daughter. Judith is vulnerable. She comes from a difficult home life. She doesn't have a lot of support.

And she starts talking to the bus driver. And Ed is charming. He's older. And Ardette is charming. He's older. and he listens to her and all her problems. And according to the sworn declaration, Judith Penny signed decades later, this wasn't just a friendly mentorship at all. Ed Warren began to groom her. Quote, he was 37, she was 15, he was driving her to school. And Judith claims that the relationship turned sexual while she was still a minor. And then in 1963, shortly after she turned 16.

the arrangement was formalized. Judith Penny moved into the Warren home. What the fuck? Yeah, yeah, no, take a second. That's fine. Pause. There's just a lot of steps in between getting on a bus with somebody and moving into their house. Exactly.

Yes. All right. That's a question I have. I'm glad we brought it up. Her home life was terrible. She wanted out of that place. And Ed was grooming her, man. He was feeling safe, a place where she could,

find support. He'd make sure she was okay. And hey, why don't you just move in with me and my wife and we will make sure everything good. But also their daughter is not in the home. Yep. And he got the wife to be like, you know what, this 15 year old girl that I know nothing about, bring her in. Yeah. Bring her on in. Let's get to that. Because like, how does a 37 year old man move a teenager into his house in the 19, in 1960s suburban Connecticut without anyone noticing? Because the answer to that rhetorical question is, oh, people did notice almost immediately after Judith moved in, the police were called. A concerned citizen, likely I'm guessing a neighbor or someone from the school, reported that this underage girl was moving in and living with a grown man who wasn't their family. And the police actually showed up at the house.

They arrested Judith Penny. What? They didn't arrest Ed. They arrested the teenage girl. And she spent a night in jail. The police knew exactly what was happening. Let's not mince words here, play around.

They were basically trying to get her to flip on Ed. Yeah. They pressured her to sign a statement admitting that she was having a sexual relationship with Ed Warren. But if she signed that paper, Ed goes to prison for statutory rape. The career is over decades before it even starts. No Amityville, no conjuring. So as we know, Judith Penny refused to sign that.

She sat in that. sale and protected him. She told the police that Ed Lorraine were just charitable people who had taken her in because she had a bad home life. She claimed she was like a niece to them. The police couldn't prove the sexual contact without her testimony. So they had no choice but to let her go. But the court didn't let her off the hook completely, thankfully.

They ordered her to report to a delinquent youth officer for probation meetings for a month. And honestly, this is. details, this is the one that shows you how confident or even arrogant, I would say, Ed Warren really was. Because keep in mind, Judas 16, she can't drive. So who drove her to the mandatory meetings with the probation officer? It's fucking Ed Warren himself. The man that she was being accused of of sleeping with was the one driving her to the

meetings where she was being monitored for being a delinquent for living with him. And obviously nobody stopped it. Ed, I think to Ed that helped almost prove his story of that, like, oh, nothing's happening. driving her to her probation officer. Am I really all that guilty? So, Judith stayed. And the house settled into a routine that would last for nearly 40 years. She became a fixture of their life.

According to her account, the living arrangements were very specific. Originally, she had a bedroom directly across the hall from Ed Lorraine. But as the years went on, Ed built an addition to the house. He's built a separate apartment upstairs for Judith. And the schedule, according to Judith, was rigid. One night with Lorraine, one night with Judith, like clockwork. Ed Warren alternated between the two of them. And Lorraine Warren, yeah, yeah, I know, just let us sit, you know.

And Lorraine Warren, the clairvoyant woman, the woman who claimed she could feel the presence of demons was just downstairs when he was upstairs with her. Judith claimed that Lorraine was fully aware of the sexual relationship. In fact, Lorraine consented to it. In Judah's view, Lorraine accepted it because it kept Ed happy. It kept the marriage together. And most important, it kept the business running because behind the scenes, apparently Ed could also be very aggressive and sometimes violent with Lorraine Warren, hitting her, yelling and screaming at the top of his lungs and so on.

Lorraine Warren got a break when he went to spend the night with Judith. And that, I think, was part of why she didn't stop it from happening, which is cruel and abusive in a different fucking way. That is devastating. Yeah. Yeah, no shit. She was, and also keep in mind, like, Ed loved to talk, but Lorraine really was the face of the operation out front of all of this. She had the gift of clairvoyance. But she was really the manager behind the scenes.

And if managing Ed to her meant allowing a groomed teenager to live upstairs and sleep with him every other night, oh, that was just the cost of doing business and keeping Ed off her back. Keep in mind as well, this wasn't peaceful. Judith described the atmosphere in the house as terrifying. She claimed Ed as verbally abusive.

He had a temper that it could explode at any moment. She claimed he was physically abusive towards Lorraine. She described hearing fights where Ed would strike Lorraine slapping her across the face and telling her to shut her up.

Like, fuck these people. Fuck the Warrens. I hate them so much. They have pulled the biggest con on so many people, and they still have movies based on them being made to this fucking day. I wish we had bigger pull. I wish more people would listen to this shit. She said, some nights I thought they were going to kill each other.

This is the reality of what it was like, where they kept Annabelle the doll. It doesn't sound like the house was fucking haunted. It sounded like it was a place where people were abused, and his daughter didn't want to fucking stick around to where her father was beating us. her mother and probably her. The museum wasn't like the reason for all this shit.

Ed just sucked. He was a terrible human. And while this domestic drama is playing out, Judy Warren, his real daughter, is growing up. She's in her 20s at this point where we are in the story. She's staying away from ghost hunting, but she can't escape it completely. In the late 1970s, Judy's driving through Connecticut and she passes a police car. The officer inside is named Tony Spera. Tony is writing a report.

He looks up. He sees Judy driving by. And according to Tony's own retelling of the story, he was instantly, quote, taken back by her beauty. So what does he do? Like every good cop who abuses their power, he flips on his police lights and pulls her over.

Because that's what every woman fucking wants is to a cop to pull her over so he can hit on her. Awesome. It turns out, Tony wasn't only interested in. Judy either. He was fascinated by her last name. Tony Sparra was a believer.

He was into the paranormal. He just pulled over her. The daughter of his icons. Yup. When he started dating Judy and they started dating, the eccentricity of his parents did not push him away. That drew him in further.

Judy wanted a normal life and brought home a man who wanted nothing more than to be part of her family. circus. Tony Spera became the son Ed Warren always wanted. He started showing up at the lectures. He started carrying the equipment. He started investigating along with them. While Judy stayed in the background, Tony moved up to the front. He bought into everything completely. And this created a new layer to the family business because now you have Ed, who's at the top, Lorraine, who's like right there next to him, Judith, the young Judy, the secret mistress who lives upstairs.

and now Tony, the man dating their daughter, Judith, who's an eager apprentice marrying into the paranormal dynasty at the behest of Ed Warren. I have a headache. It's like Game of Thrones, but for horrible child molesters. Dynasty. My head hurts. I'm sorry.

This is how it is. It's like you build a map of the shit. Today, today, Tony Sparrow runs the Warren legacy. He's the one that maintains the occult museum, gives tours, interviews, all that stuff. But anyway, back to the story of the 1970s. In 1978, the delicate balance of the house was threatened. Judith Penny, who was 30 years old at this point, had been living with the Warrens for 15 years.

And she got pregnant. She told Ed the baby was his. And this was a catastrophe. Because it's fucking 1978, the Amityville horror book just came out. It is flying off the shelves. The movie deal is in the works and the Warrens have their first real chunk of money heading their way. They are about to become the most famous paranormal investigators on the planet. This is their brand, Catholic, wholesome, spiritual warriors.

If news breaks that Ed Warren has impregnated his live-in mistress, this shit is over. The church will disown them. The book deal collapses. The movie would never have gotten made. So, according to Judith, the Warrens went into crisis mode. First, they allegedly tried to convince Judith to lie. They wanted her to say she was raped. They wanted her to say, a stranger did it.

That was first, a cover story. A stranger did it. But Judith refused. She wouldn't lie about being raped, so they had to change the plan. Judith claimed that Lorraine Warren, the woman who publicly condemned the occult, who spoke about the sanctity of life, who presents herself as a devout Catholic with psychic powers, sat her down and told her what she had to do. She had to get an abortion.

Judith claimed Lorraine persuaded her to terminate the pregnancy to save the business. And Judith did exactly that. She got the abortion. She stayed in the house. She went back to the room upstairs. and she kept the secret. And the Warrens went on to become the global superstars that everybody knows them to be. The domestic secrets of the Warren House might have stayed buried forever, if not for one thing.

Hollywood money, baby, it ruins everything. In 2013, The Conjuring was released. And it was a massive fucking hit. It launched a multi-billion dollar franchise. But before the first ticket was sold, a legal war had already started over who actually owned, the story of Ed Lorraine Warren. The combatants were Warner Brothers, the studio, and a man named Gerald Brittle, the author of the demonologist.

He had a contract with the Warrens that gave him exclusive rights to their life stories. When Warner Brothers made the conjuring without paying him, he sued. Guess how much he sued for? This is a fun number. $69 million. $1 million. $900 million. You know, before the first movie,

movie of the conjuring verse was even made. He was right, though. He was right. That number does sound fucking insane. But for him, this was everything, man. It was the right to an entire future franchise. Annabelle, the nun, everything this was writing on this first movie. Warner Brothers defense, though, was also a very simple one.

They argued that the conjuring wasn't based on Brittle's book. They claimed it was based on historical facts. I was going to say, do they hit him with the same thing the Warren's used? Yep. Their argument was you can't copyright history. And Lorraine Warren really fought these demons. You can't copyright that. Exactly. These things really happened.

Therefore, they are historical events and we can make a movie about them without paying the guy who wrote the biography. That's so fucking stupid. It's clever though, but it did have a fatal flaw. If you claim its history, well, now you have to prove it's true.

Yeah. Yeah. And Gerald Brittle's lawyers realized this was their opening. To win the lawsuit, they didn't have to prove that Brittle wrote the book. They had to prove that the Warrens were frauds. If they could prove that Ed and Lorraine made it all up, that there were no demons, that this true story was a lie, then Warner Brothers' historical fact defense would crumble. It would prove the studio was adapting a work of fiction, not history.

So Brittle's legal team went nuclear. And that's why they only made one conjuring movie. And they never made another one. They attacked the credibility of the witness, as we've seen. be the case constantly lawyers. They attack the character of the warrants. And as part of the legal filing, they released the sworn declaration of Judith Penny.

Dude. This is how the story of the 15-year-old bus driver passenger, the arrangement, the abortion, and the domestic abuse finally entered the public record. Not like, it wasn't like an expose like I think most people would have assumed. This was just legal proceedings. I mean, that's why certain people, no names, don't want to have legal proceedings about certain files. no names that may or may not relate to islands no names yeah no names but if they have them they have to

they have to give up all the information yeah they have the files they have to give out the files yep but this is still 2013 and i think because it was a legal like thing rather than a tabloid expose type thing it's the reason it didn't take as like fire as it may have today you know what i mean not to say that it would have stopped anything but it may have had more of an impact uh if it was like more covered by the press and stuff. Beyond that, Brittle's lawyers argued, how can this be a historical fact when the pious Catholic couple

at the center of it all was actually living in a polyamorous, abusive arrangement with a groomed minor? The studio was that literally backed the studio into a corner. They couldn't defend the history without defending the real Ed Lorraine. And the real Ed Lorraine were becoming impossible to defend. But the most

damning piece of evidence wasn't found in the lawsuit. It was found in the studio's own contracts. When Warner Brothers bought the life rights from Lorraine Warren, they had to sign a contract. And in that contract, there were specific stipulations about what could and could not be shown in the movies. Now, this is normal. I want to find, like in my research, I found that most contracts have a standard basically

don't make us look bad clause. It's based on, you know, a real story of people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But Lorraine's contract was excruciatingly specific. The contract stipulated that the films could not show Ed or Lorraine engaging in crimes, specifically, quote, sex with minors.

It also forbade depicting Ed in an extramarital sexual relationship. This is very, very, very specific for something. that didn't happen. Based on history. Yeah, based on history. Yeah, like a talent attorney who reviewed the documents for the Hollywood reporter noted how incredibly rare this is. You don't put a no sex with minors clause in a contract unless you are worried that someone is going to find out about the sex with minors, dude. This is like, you know, just like that episode of Always Sunny where Frank is like, we got to have a song. It's like, don't dittle kids. Diddling kids is bad.

And it's like, why would you want that? It makes it sound like you little kids. Yeah. Why would you have that? That's lit. That's fucking beat for beat, correct. Like, that's so specific. Like, that clause in and of itself is the smoking gun of the fact that they did groom a minor. Because also, keep in mind, 2013, this is happening.

Ed is dead. It's just Lorraine at this point. And she's still putting this shit in. Like, don't tell anybody. Don't tell anybody. She's, like, defending his honor, even though he's dead. Literally. It just, it implies that everyone at,

the top level from Lorraine to her lawyers and likely studio executives who were making this movie who went over the contract and signed the contract to make the conjuring people in Hollywood knew about this shit. Yeah. Doesn't matter. All of it. They knew about the statutory rape allegations, all of it. And they legally firewalled it to ensure that Patrick Wilson would never have to fuck a minor in a movie.

Thank God. So what happened? Does the studio admit to the truth? Did they cancel the franchise? No, fucking, of course not. They're still making movies.

They settled. Water Brothers and New Line Cinema paid Gerald Brittle to go away. The terms were undisclosed, but considering the lawsuit was for 900 million and the franchise became worth billions. I imagine they paid quite a bit for the silence.

He probably made some money, yeah. Yeah, they paid to keep the historical fact illusion alive, even after their own illegal files proved it was anything but fucking historical fact. and it worked. The Judith Penny story broke in the Hollywood reporter in 2017. And since then, we've had the nun, the curse of La Yerona, also in the verse.

Annabelle comes home, the conjuring, the devil made me do it, and the nun too. The machine didn't even fucking slow down. Ed Warren died in 2006, and Lorraine Warren would die in 2019. It would be a consultant, would be a consultant to every single one of these movies. until the day she died. Into millions of people, these people died as fucking heroes. They never faced a judge for the fraud,

had never faced charges for statutory rape. They never had to answer to the Glatzel family or the Hodgson's or the Lutzes in a way that ever stuck. And today, if you go to the cinema, you will see a fake version of these fucking con pieces of shit that is pure fantasy played by people 900 times hotter

than they ever wishes they could be. And you will see Ed Warren risking his life to save kids. when he was the Dittlemeister up on the second floor of his fucking home. You will see Lorraine Warren weeping for the souls of the dam while she was actively damming souls in her own fucking house. You will see they lie and spend 50 years crafting this lie. And the truth is a 15-year-old girl got on a bus.

The truth is a tree surgeon was sitting in prison for a murder he committed because he was drunk not possessed. The truth is an 11-year-old boy who needed a doctor, got an exorcist instead. The truth is a family in Enfield who just wanted someone to listen to them, got an exploited by them. The Warren's understood one fundamental truth about human nature that I fucking hate, that we prefer the monsters we can fight with a goddamn crucifix to the monster that lives in the bedroom upstairs.

And Ed Warren was right about one thing. Demons always sell better. That is the end of our series on the Warrens. Fuck the Warrens and fuck everything about them. I hate them. I hope their whole goddamn persona eventually comes crumbling down. And if I can be a pebble in the movement. that will create an avalanche.

I goddamn hope it happens. Fuck all of them. Fuck the movies. Fuck that they keep making money off of this. When behind the scenes, people are being abused, traumatized, and hurt.

Zach Began's next. No, I need to break from deep diving into people with, listen, I don't think Zach is this bad. I hope he doesn't have

a minor girl that he's grooming in his apartment upstairs. I don't think he's bad in the same way. No. No, I don't. But that's the end

of the fucking Warren's boys. I hope you enjoy. How are you feeling? How are you feeling about the Warren's? I am so impressed with that ending there. You like, I just love seeing you that emotional. Yeah, I love seeing you fired up. Yeah, they're not good people. I had to spend two episodes holding back and being like they suck. We'll get to how much they suck later.

They're terrible people. I don't think you should watch those movies. And I think you should actually, I think you should actually tell people about this every time that you hear about these movies because it's a matter of history. Right. Like, I'm not trying to ruin the movies or whatever that are based on a true. true story. I'm merely saying that part of the true story is not in the movies. You know? Yeah. And you should be ashamed to yourself. What's his name? Matt? What's that dude's name? The boyfriend? He should be ashamed of himself. Arnie? Yeah. Yeah. For being a murderer. Oh, I'm sorry.

Alleged. Sorry. Legend. You know, you were possessed by demons or whatever it was. No, no. I'm saying the boyfriend of the daughter who runs it today. Oh, Tony Spera. Tony. He should be completely ashamed of himself. Oh, I hope he has trouble sleeping every night of his life. so do I fuck that guy thank you all for listening we're off to go to a minisota over at patreon.com slash chluminati pod we'll be back next week with another episode we appreciate you all so much we love you hey wherever you're listening drop us rating I haven't said that in a while read us five stars five stars we're almost at like 4.8 we want people to think we're good not that would that's your

we waffle between 4.9 and 4.8 on Spotify with about 3,000 reviews oh we can get 5,000 we can get 5,000 we can do that you got to balance out the people who use reviews for spite. Exactly. And they, that's a few of them actually. We need you now more than ever. Now more than ever, because this, you know, might happen. All right, we're off. Thank you guys so much.

We appreciate you. Love you. Goodbye. Love on done.