Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 36 - Ted Bundy Part 3 - FINALE

Episode Date: December 2, 2019

BUY OUR MERCH - http://theyetee.com/collections/chilluminati Soundcloud - @chilluminatipodcast  Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox  Alex Faciane - http://www.youtube.com/user/thatonelazerclown Art Commissioned by - http://www.mollyheadycarroll.com Theme - Matt Proft Video - http://www.twitter.com/digitalmuppet

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We're Shrek Nasty, I got it. Welcome to the Luminati podcast, everybody. We are the Shrek Nasty podcast, I guess. My name is Mike, as always, one of your hosts, and I am joined by my two wonderful guests that I haven't seen in a few weeks now. Dear old Alex Fasiane, how's it going, man? Good to see your face.

I just resurfaced from the live show in Boston. I just found my way back to my house in Los Angeles. You walked, that's why it took us so long. Yeah, I've been hungover walking back this whole time. As I'm sure a lot of people were the following few days. Oh my God, I hope so. I do too. Nobody, like, there was a lot of people

who I feel like deserve to be very hungover. There was certainly quite a few. One of them was likely our other host. Good sir, Jesse Cox, hello. It torrent me, it was definitely one of the three of us, but it wasn't me, I don't know who it could have been, but it wasn't me. You're very convincing.

I fell onto my knees in the bathroom. I slipped and fell onto my knees and had two round dirt shit circles on my knees after the show. And I was walking through the airport. Like, I felt like somebody, like, I fell out of a building. Like, my legs were so brittle,

like a little bird puppet, like I couldn't even walk. It was wild, I felt so bad. Alex could barely move, it was amazing. Poor guy. I just wanted to go pee. It's so hard when you're in drugs, you know, or getting there. I was feeling it.

I wasn't hungover, luckily, but I was feeling. The floor was covered in piss. Somebody came up to me after the show and was like, dude, you were standing right behind me when you fell. I wanted to turn around, but I would have peed on you. Thank you to that particular gentleman for keeping his land to himself.

I thought that was super chill of them. Right? I'm very chill, yeah. Good thing he told you as well, that you were within P threat range, but he chose not. I almost got peed on, yeah. It's like, I almost got to be in Death Stranding.

Shit, dude, oh, what a game. I haven't even played it yet, but apparently what a game. For good or for bad. You can pee on hell. There's ghosts in Death Stranding, I think, so that leads us into the creation of ghosts with the serial killer, Ted Bundy.

That's what we call Segway. Creation of ghosts! We call Segway into the topic at hand. Hold on, are we finally doing Ted? Are we finally finishing up Ted Bundy? We're getting done, we're done. So basically, just the awful parts. Like before, Ted Bundy was,

we really don't know too much, and this might've happened, and he had a weird life. Now it's like, first murder, second murder. That's what we did in part two. Creating ghosts, racking them up. We did first murder, second murder, and potential third murder in the first part. All the other murders.

Now we're going into the- Creating jobs for the ghostbusters. Creating, keeping the detectives employed for quite a long time is the jobs that he was creating in the ghostbusters. I don't like this capitalism version of murder. It's a world we live in now, Jesse. It's a world we live in now.

It's what we know, Jesse. Not a fan, not a fan. Well, yeah, we're finally wrapping it up. And while I could probably do a bunch of parts on him and his law, his trials and whatnot, we're going to avoid most of that, but we're going to be talking about the important aspects here.

And some fascinating psychological aspects, I personally think, because that's really the part of true crime that hones in on me the most, is just how do the mind works. But when we left off with our maniac monster, sociopathic liar and murderer, Ted Bundy, we journeyed through his murky childhood, a giant mix of lies and truth,

forever leaving us unable to know exactly how his early life truly went. Was it normal, like others have told us, or was it the hellscape that he paints it as with an abusive grandfather, and weird sister-mother type deal? Following that, we then spoke about his first two murder attempts,

one being successful with Linda, and the other leaving the woman Karen, with a lifetime of brain damage, as well as the potential one that started it all back when he was a teenager, with the disappearance of a young eight-year-old Ann, who there is enough evidence there that you might be able to put it on Bundy,

but there's no real definitive knowledge you have. Do you come down on one side or the other? All this reading? I personally think- I do, I think he definitely killed that girl. Yeah, I just do as well. I believe it as well. Everything, even if we take the nicest history

of his childhood, where he had a normal childhood, even then the stories from the family talk about how distant and detached, and mentally sick that he was, and during that time none of that was paid attention to, and I think for sure he did it, but legally who freaking knows, right? It's wild, it's wild to me.

It is, and it's only gonna get more wild and interesting with society and how they ended up dealing with him when he was running rampant and how a lot of suspicions went around. But the last thing we actually left with, the last moment we left with Ted Bundy, was the 911 call,

the one that took place four days after his first confirmed adult kill, where he simply said, listen and listen carefully. The person who attacked that girl on eighth last month, and the person who took Linda Healy away are the same, are one and the same. He was outside both houses, he was seen, where the operator then replies,

who's calling, and then Ted replies, no way you're not getting my name, before he hangs up. Clearly completely full of himself. Completely. Just biting up the Zodiac, let's be real. You know what I mean? Right, you're right. Way to be original Ted, you fucking.

Piece of shit. Poser ass. Honestly though, at that point in my mind, the way this works, that's where Ted really flipped the switch, where he said, where he taught himself he could get away with it, and once he knew in his mind that he could get away with it, that's where his four year spree really, really started.

Well you have to figure that that's like, part of the thrill of being a serial killer is, I'm smarter than everyone else, and then when you think you're smarter than everyone else, that's when you are like, I could literally just tell them who I am. So then you send weird cryptic Zodiac killer things, and then you're just like, see, they can't catch me.

And then of course, they always get caught, because they're dumb idiots. Yes, and like the whole arc. What you just said right there is the whole arc of Bundy, which is the arc of every serial killer. Yeah, which is why it's so fascinating. And there are little minor differences between the two, and we're gonna talk about Bundy's specific arc

in that kind of growth and fall as a serial killer. There's gotta be studies and things that have been done about, it almost seems like general addiction. Yes, oh, there's a ton. I've read a few books, which is we're gonna talk a little bit about what profiles he fit.

A good starter book about serial killers is simply a book called Serial Killers. And it's just the mentality and the research and the psychology behind how and why they operate the way they do. Yeah, because it's always like, it has to escalate. Just like if you are, you know, if you go hard on drugs or you go like anything,

drinking, if you're one of those people who's like, I feel like you're justifying speed for yourself. I feel like you are plucking lines out of what I wrote right here, so we'll get to that. But honestly, have you guys seen Mindhunter? Have you watched that? I have not. No.

That's honestly also very good. It's about the birth of psychological profiling and crime, and it's about the co-ed killers the guys in the interview, not Bundy, but. This era, like the 60s and 70s, is what spurred the profiling and needing to kind of start looking at their psychological motivations,

because what we're gonna learn, and it's still true today, is that serial killers only get caught, like Jesse said, because they're do dumb shit. If they keep, if they have their mind about them, they're, the police end up just not being able to follow because of how meticulous they become. But it's that point where the escalation starts to fall off.

They start getting lazy. They start getting bored, and then they start making mistakes. But let's rewind, let's get back to Ted here, because this is a lot I wanna kind of pull apart, that that's just interesting. So, and much like, it's also important, like I said, this is where I see his pivot point,

but much like his childhood, it's also from this point on that things once again get sort of murky for us when it comes to the specifics of each crime. Because forensic evidence at this point was still young, and also about Bundy even after everything we know, even after finding his personal graveyard that he used on Taylor Mountain,

which would eventually become simply known as Bundy's graveyard. All that evidence beyond just the skulls is flimsy at best. Whether the first failed attempt at a murder set him into a more paranoid state, or he just learned what he liked during the time, Bundy became almost invisible. He never left fingerprints,

evidence, anything behind in his kidnapping scenes. There was this perceived invisibility, and to some extent, I'd argue, his perceived invincibility that would end up being what got Bundy caught in the end as haphazard and poorly as the police ended up doing it themselves prior. It was his own ineptitude.

I wonder how much of it, I wonder how much of it is like true cocksheredness, and bravado, and how much of it is like, just him, you know, like the dude from Money Python, the knight who keeps getting his arms cut off, and he's like- His butterfly. What are you talking about, bitch?

Yeah, I'm fine. I'm gonna bleed on you till you're fucking dead. Like, I wonder, I wonder in his mind, like how evil this is, you know what I mean? I think he was a mix of both. He clearly had an ego about him, especially in interviews afterward, he just, the cocky and sherdness of it,

I always speaks of how he compares murder to changing attire and the similarities to them, but what you're saying as well as how evil, well, I think there's a lot of evil into it because what we do know about Bundy, what little evidence we do have is that he had an obsession with a very particular type of woman

that looked, unsurprisingly, devilishly close looking to the woman he spent years trying to get back after she broke up with him, just so when he got back with her, he would leave her, as we talked about in the past episode. Yeah, humans are surprisingly simple creatures in the end.

All of his 35 confirmed victims were young women around college days with brunette hair that parted down the middle and usually was wearing pants or slacks, which was fashionable at the time, which fit very close to his ex that he just merely wanted to kind of lord over and do it. It's also at this point on,

yeah, and he said this point on too, that his started the kidnapping. Instead of beating them where they slept and then taking them, he would take them and take them somewhere secluded to do whatever it is he was going to do. Sorry, go ahead, Jesse. No, just saying that it's fascinating

that even someone as you would think just so much going on in his brain, right? Like all these serial killers, when you break them down at the end of the day, it's not that at all. It's very simple what they're doing. And in this case, it's, you know, this girl messed him up.

And so- It's also how he got off. That he was sexually released every single time he killed someone. Yeah, it's like a very simple mammal, animalistic thing. And he's like, well, of course, I'm gonna take out everything on these women that look like this girl that I loved.

Like it's just, it's fascinating to see the, if you peel back all the layers of like, oh, what must be going on in his head? It's very, very simple. It always is every time. Yeah. And quite literally, as I said before, there's no way we could cover every single murder

that he's done. There's confirmed 35, it's speculated as high as over a hundred. We will never truly know. And even through his interviews, Bundy's inability to tell an ounce of truth without smothering it in like a pound of lies is impossible. He can't do it.

That's what I mean. Like, is it even worth going into every murder? Exactly. You're not even gonna really get a full picture of it. No, we'll never really know what happened with each victim beyond the tidbits that we can piece together from the skeletons that are found.

But what we do know is that from this point on, Bundy was a methodical monster. There were a few factors that played into Bundy's ability to be simply invisible. And this is what I find fascinating about the case is society and how they weirdly, willfully ignore what's right in front of them. First and foremost was Bundy's uncanny ability

for preparation, whether it was from the first botched attempt where he tried to kidnap somebody and just beat her in her bed and never went anywhere to his first victim or simply his inner superiority complex that made him feel better than everybody else, he was always traveling prepared. For instance, never was there any fingerprints of his found at any of the crime scenes.

And much like many successful serial killers, he had his tools always on hand in case the moment arose spontaneously and he found somebody that he liked. He would eventually fashion his own personal crowbar that he would use as his own personal tool, while also carrying rope, handcuffs, plastic bags, a screwdriver, flashlight, face mask, and a bunch of other stuff kept in his VW buggy.

I literally, I literally hate that. Yep, murder kit. It's literally a murder kit. It's like Batman, but just like murder. Yeah, like the awful. Yeah, it's terrible. Bundy though was also, he was also incredibly bland looking. And this is important.

And I know it sounds stupid, but it also played into it. It makes perfect sense. But like basic white dude, forgettable. Yeah, while he's talked about in a lot of media, the movies and all this other stuff to be this charming and dashing handsome man to say that. Zac Efron. Yeah, exactly.

To say that's a stretch of the truth would also be a stretch. Like he was nowhere near dashing or handsome. And while he was air quotes, charming, and we'll talk about that shortly, handsome isn't exactly the word I'd use. He was on his best days, simply plain looking, no distinguishing features beyond a mole on his neck.

And since it was the seventies, turtlenecks were huge and big in style and that one little thing was super easy to hide. Moreover, Bundy constantly changed his hair and the facial hair styles he had. He was a brown haired, younger white male out in Washington state and eventually Utah. Disappearing for him out there is going to be super easy.

And he had the forethought to constantly change his outer look. Just the amount of effort he'd go through to make sure he could keep his habit going is insane. Coupled with Bundy's quote charm, he was a quiet predator. If you think about what's spoken most about Bundy, though, when you look at TV shows or interviews,

it's always the charm that he has, how charming and how friendly he was. And while they aren't necessarily wrong about that to a certain extent, they're also, in my opinion, grossly mischaracterizing his personality. As we talked about in the prior episode, in another life, Bundy probably would have been

a ruthless and horrifying politician. He was a Republican, something he loved to scream at his victims about while he was killing them. And it was his time working within the political camps at this point that helped him form the quote unquote charm that so heavily talked about now. It was something he personally trained to do with the expressed intent at getting better

at manipulating people. I've always just sort of interpreted it as more than him being some kind of irresistible cat-type guy. Right. I always think of him more as just like, he didn't seem creepy to people. More than that, he was charming. It's just like, when you know that this guy fucked people's

bodies up, and after they were dead and did all this weird shit to them, you just start to compare that to how he acts if you're in the media or you're somewhere else. And it starts to seem like, oh, this guy's just like, he's so charming. He would never believe that he's like a mutilator of human beings.

But it's, I don't know. I think that might be a ding on all men in general. I think we might have fucked that one up. I mean, you're not wrong. Yeah. All it takes to be a serial killer is to just not seem that bad. Be boring.

Be boring. Be invisible. Be white. It still helps quite a lot. I feel like all those are, being a white dude helps a lot being a serial killer. Because no one's going to question you. That's just the country we live in.

Everyone's like, he probably needs that rope for something fun. Yeah. It's the country we live in now. Think about how much more that was true in the 70s. Sure. Sure. It's crazy.

And again, him doing these things. Although now, although I will say now, because it's almost a trope. White dudes with ropes, you're just like, hmm. Yeah, yeah. This guy's going to go kill people. White dudes with what? Ropes.

Ropes. I'm telling you. White dudes with ropes are out there just making ghosts. I'm like, I'm letting you know. Be careful. I'm letting you know. It's become such a trope to like, well, his trunk has ropes and bags.

Like that dude's killing people, especially with like. I saw him shopping at Home Depot. He's a murderer. Fun story. I got pulled when I was like 20 years old. I was with my buddy and my girlfriend at the time and we were walking in a graveyard. And now keep in mind, this had like a walking path.

So it was fine to walk in the graveyard. That's what it was for. And as it was getting night and the place was going to close, we were heading back to the car, hopped in the car, we're ready to head home. All of a sudden this cop car pulls in, blocks us in. There's only a single road behind us. Another cop car pulls up, blocks us in.

They some old, old dude apparently had called on us saying we looked like we were doing something druidic. So they went through my buddy's car and mount. So they went through my buddy's. I'm sorry, sir. I'd like to have a ritual. Yeah, like sacrificial. Ritual.

Yeah, so they went through my buddy's car. And of course, my friend's parents all is D&D. In his car, they found trash bags, ropes. No, they found D&D books, which to adults at that time was fishy. And they found his show swords that he likes to display. I would have arrested the ball. I'd have been like, mm-mm.

They split us up. They were questioning us. They went through my wallet and stuff. What kind of swords were they? Oh, they were like swords from like, you know, like stuff you'd go at like a rent fair and buy, like that kind of. I see. Custom steel.

Yeah, stuff cool stuff. I would have reported. If I was with you guys. Well, they took all the swords. Sir, they were practicing witchcraft. And I just came along for the ride, sir. Small, small detail. Small detail.

I was clamored by their. My girlfriend at the time was also wearing a cloak. What is this? This is why you people, you're leaving shit out of this story. You're like finding your business. She was like pale and she has like veins. And so it was like she was poisoned, but and her lips were green.

Well, OK. So also like I'm like, you know what I had no beard. And I was 20 and I look like I look like I'm like 16. She was short and like super young looking. And then my other buddy, Scott, he had that full beard like adult man look since he was right, right? Right. You know, just completely creepy now that you think about it.

Practicing the dark arts. Yeah. You left a lot out of the story. You started with we were walking through and we're on a little path and then we got pulled over. But we were. But that's true. You left out details like also we had a small circle

of protection around us. It was very simple magic. It wasn't anything serious. We were going for a walk because he lived near the graveyard. It was nice. I'm going to get yelled at by pagans on the air. I didn't mean it like, you know, chill out. Pagans.

It'll be OK. Wicked oppression. Imaginary argument with the general audience. The pagans are going to come. Look, they always get mad when people are like, that's not how we do things. No, not the church of Satan. It's not about Satan.

The church of Chaluminati is the only only recognized religion on this podcast. We need to get on that. We need to get on the church of Chaluminati. We'll have commemorative coins. That's the whole. That's the long con. This podcast is leading to tax write offs is what's leading to.

Hell yeah. Dude, nonprofit. You know what they're going to say? They were so charming. They were so good on that podcast. Yeah, I could never. I would never expect Jesse Cox to swindle our money. Then they did a live show and everyone

had to go slip in the toilet water. And that's when they killed 35 people. It was wild. I wish I could show you my fucking pants. It's literally like clean pants and then like two. Like it looks like somebody took two fresh chocolate donuts and just pressed them against my kneecaps. Like it's like two round circles of like.

And I'm pretty sure it's shit. Because what the fuck else was it? Why would someone poop on the floor? Could it be like rust? Why would somebody pee on the floor? Maybe it's brown mold. Brown mold? Oh, that could be good.

You know what? That makes me feel better. You're welcome. It's probably just that. You know who never got brown mold on their knees? Ted Bundy. Never. He was too.

Maybe when he was in the woods beating women to death. Before and after that. Lord, there's no way to joke about this guy. I want to bring levity to this. I'm trying so hard. You just have to have a incredibly dark sense of humor. And then he's got his custom crowbar that he loves. Yeah, that he does love.

God damn it. So what a piece of shit. Yeah, what a piece of human garbage. This guy got three episodes. I want to point that out. Ghosts and fun things like aliens. Aliens, they're trying to save our asses. Half an episode.

Ted Bundy murders a bunch of people. Three episodes were given to this dude. No, no, no. Jesse, are you giving me green light to do multi-parter alien apps? Yes, I'd rather do multi-part alien episodes than spend three episodes talking about a dude who just murdered because he's cuckoo bananas.

Are you ready for a 12-part series? Look, I want to believe. I want to believe, but I don't. I just personally, true crime is something I have a love for. So I will always come back to it every so often. Look, I once dated a girl who was like, I think serial killers are sexy.

We're no longer dating. No, I don't know. For obvious reasons. For obvious reasons, we are no longer dating. But like. My dad sat me down at Thanksgiving this year to talk to me seriously about disclosure and what our plan is if it happens.

Oh, dude, it is happening right now. What are you talking about? If it happens, it is currently happening. It's just a slow roll. We're close than we've ever been. I don't want to get you too far off the track today. We got to do that. Did you see the article that came out yesterday?

Were the potential craft UFO in Oregon? Yes. Yes, I did. Don't. I didn't see it, so it didn't happen. To defend myself, I don't think serial killers are sexy in any way. I think it's important to understand the psychology

behind it so we can see signs easier for ourselves. And I find that interesting and for a more scientific thing. Because they're. For sure. Everybody puts this bad label on sociopaths. When sociopaths, there are a bunch of good people who are also technically sociopaths. I know a million of them.

I know a million of them. Everybody in YouTube. We know a bunch. Yeah, that's true. We know them all. We've seen it all. All right. So his charmingness, his thing that he trained for,

how did that even come around? Again, he specifically did this stuff to get better at manipulating people. Well, part of it was the time working into suicide hotline that we talked about earlier. Another big part of it, it was this time working within the political camps that he formed his charm. In 1972, Bundy joined Governor Daniel J. Evans'

re-election campaign. From there, he would go on to work for them by posing as a college student and shadowing his Democratic opponent, Governor Albert Rosolini. He would go to Rosolini's stump speeches, write them down, take notes all the entire time, and then would return back to Evans so they could look at the speech, break it down,

and figure out what best to spin, how best to attack, and their upcoming strikes with their campaigns, ads, and stump speeches. Evans then went on to describe Bundy as, quote, smart, aggressive, and a firm believer in the system. I personally firmly believe. The system? Yeah, the system, the political system.

Oh, whatever. Yeah, right. I mean, he definitely knew how to manipulate people, if that's what he's talking about. Maybe that just is the game. Maybe that is just what playing the game is. The game is in politics. So I firmly believe it was this mixed with his tenure

at the Suicide Hotline Help that gave him all the social skills to help him navigate the mess of society that we have and to pick, kidnap, and kill targets that much easier. And if you think I'm crazy, again, Bundy so much has admitted it himself. Now, again, whether that's true or not, you have to take him at his word for it.

His word is worth jack shit. But still, it's important. It's interesting to think about because there's still an interesting theory there. More often than not, it wasn't his dashing good looks or his charm that got women to follow him to his car, but his ability to appear meek, pathetic, and someone who needed help that convinced

most nice people to follow him back because it was always that type of attack, where he would lie to them about something. And Bundy was quote unquote smart about when he picked his targets. They weren't random people that in the street that he decided in a moment's notice, except for one that ended up getting him caught.

They were always pre-planned, watched, and attacked at opportune times where nobody would notice. Almost all of them were kidnapped at night, save for one. They were also almost always near a construction site when they were taken away, likely due to the noise that would help muffle any fighting or screams that might happen during the abduction. And finally, since all of his victims

were of the college age, almost always they were taken during midterms and finals when students were mostly out at night during the weekends to relax and have some drinks and see friends. His method, now this is where we get into what we're talking about as far as the psychology of killers and kind of moving forward.

Because again, we're not really going to dive into the details of how he killed specifically. His method was usually quick, brutal, and effective to kill them quickly. Bundy would approach an unsuspecting woman who matched the description he was clearly targeting. Usually he would approach in need of help, using many of his props that he'd carried around

at his disposal, like a fake cast that he'd put his arm in, like a sling. And then he would say something along the lines is he needs something, help getting something out of his car, getting something into his car, et cetera, et cetera. And he used, again, his props to help sell that. His mild manner and ability to sound scared or weak or convincing enough that it was enough

to get most poor, young, kind of vulnerable women to follow him back to help him with whatever task he had laid before him. He would quickly pull after the woman was bent over, helping him lift up something that he pulled out of his car or looking for something. He would get behind her, quickly pull out of his blunt object, and he would quickly knock him on the head unconscious,

gag, tie them, throw them in a trunk, and then he'd have a second sight where he would usually do his actions. There was always a period of anger. There was always a period of rage during this particular time as well. How do you move a body like that? Just that's, you have the car open and prepared.

It's just fucked up. It's just crazy to me. This was his life. You know what I mean? This is all he cared about. Yeah. Yeah, I'm just trying to get it in my brain and it's fucking me up.

Yeah, it's terrible. Again, he'd bring him to a second spot, usually time to a tree where he would then berate them for random things that had nothing to do with them before he would either strangle them or just beat them to death, knocking them unconscious usually with the first swing. For what it's worth, like I said,

almost all of them died quickly when he decided it was time. He didn't pull it out too long until later on, putting him squarely in what's known in psychology as a product killer. So this is where, like I said, the psychology gets interesting because there's a bunch of different kinds of categorized serial killers. And in this point of his life, he's a product killer.

He doesn't relish the kill. He wants the product at the end. Moreover, he was always, always drunk during these things, apparently unable to do it while he was sober, but the alcohol blunting his judgment and his inhibitions allowed the, quote, evil side of him to come forward and do what he needed. I mean, I'm definitely the same way,

but I wouldn't say that it would ever, like I would, I don't even imagine him being drunk. You know what I mean? It doesn't seem right. No, yeah, exactly. That's a fascinating, it's a fascinating excuse. Right, it's interesting, right? I had to get drunk in order to do it.

Like, really? Man, it's an interesting look at the character. But that tells you he knew right from wrong. You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. Once he had killed the woman and Bundy had the body, he would then engage in body exploration, body care and necrophilia.

Again, very much more a product killer. And in one instance, he actually shampooed her hair and like took care of the body for a few days before he would then take it to a third site, which was the burial ground where he hit all of the bodies. God damn. Yeah, however, at some point in that process, most serial killers typically stay

within their, quote, unquote, lane. If you're a product killer, you're a product killer. If you're a processor killer, you're a process killer, et cetera, et cetera. Bundy is interesting in the fact that he kind of shifted at some point, where once there was, there's one woman we know of just through forensic evidence

that she had been alive for around six days. She had been taken by Bundy and handcuffed to a tree in a secluded area where he took all of his victims. There she was kept handcuffed and a prisoner for around six days. While Bundy returned occasionally to torture her, scream at her, hit her. And yet at that point, he even brought another victim

and forced her to watch her kill this other victim before he eventually killed her. And it's somewhere in there that he changed. He became, he went from product killer to process killer and he would stay a process killer for the rest of his serial killing spree for the four years that he got away with it. And so while there's a lot of articles out there

that I read in a couple of videos breaking him down, a lot of them say they don't necessarily know why he shifted from one to the other. I personally think that it was always who he was and that there was another form of escalation. Now, this is just coming from an opinion. I don't have a doctorate for anything. They're just reading, watching and reading

about a ton of stuff. It's crazy that he shifted. So I think it was simply escalation. Most serial killers do go through periods of escalation, usually like starting with animals or attempted assaults or attempted kidnappings. And each one brings that rush and for most male serial killers, specifically,

that sexual release that's usually tied to violence in their mind, but much like any drug, you start craving and needing more, more, more, more, more. And usually they reach product killer and that's where they stay and they become that forever. But Bundy, I think, I don't think whether he was timid and I think, and he kind of just went that way slowly or what have you, I just think it was another form

of escalation until he got to process killer. Cause if you look at his early murders and how he shifted, he kind of started almost like less paranoid. He made a mistake and then he became more paranoid. So I think he escalated way slower because he was, maybe he didn't feel safe enough or maybe he didn't feel secure enough until he got away with it enough

where he felt like he could then- Well, I think that leads to the idea that he was killing at a young age. And that's how he could become by his, you know, 20s, a guy who was, oh, well, of course I'm gonna get away with it until he was almost caught. And then he was like, oh no. And that's when he brought it back.

And I feel, that's the only way it makes sense. Cause it doesn't get re- It's like anything, like take, take like coffee or cigarettes or weed or whatever. Like at first you just do a little bit because that's all you need. But eventually it's like a habit of yours and you don't feel right unless you're doing it.

And if that's what your head's at anyway, like, you know, you can start to do some pretty awful things without thinking about it. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I definitely think it was a form of escalation. But again, we'll never scientifically ever really know. But it's still interesting to think about. It's at this point too, when he shifted from product killer

to process killer, where he started enjoying the whole process of murdering and getting off on it. This was also the time where Bundy was arguably at his boldest as well. This was the only one where aware of that he tricked, there's only one victim rather that we're aware of that he tricked and took in broad daylight and almost got away with it,

but ended up not getting away with it thankfully. And actually what led to him getting caught. It's at this point, he's also in Utah, re-going to college again, but eventually he drops out, but he starts killing in Utah. But basically what we learned is that Bundy is also quote unquote an actor in his own right. Much like his props, he also had costumes with him as well.

And one of those costumes he would use here. Much like his- Like a process server? A what now? Like, he had little wigs and outfits in his car. Yeah, yeah, yep, exactly. Correct. Much like, well think about it,

Tommy Patera did the same thing. Yeah, you're right. He dressed up as a rabbi and a woman. That was his two go-to costumes. But so one of the costumes that he had though, and one of his favorites to use was simply that of a police officer. Right.

And fully adorned in cop attire, he walked into a store, approached his victim, and simply told her that someone had hit her car outside and that she needed to come with him. Unfortunately for this woman, she did not even think to question, how does he know like what my car is? How does he know it's my car?

This is the 70s, you know? This is before there's any computers or anything like that. She just kind of bought into it. She said, oh, you know, it must be the officer must be trying to help me out. Took her outside and told her that he needed to take her to down to the police station

so they could fill out paperwork for the accident. So she got in his car. Now mind you, this is a police officer driving a VW, a buggy. That's what he drives, a buggy in the 70s. And she just kind of accepted it, went into his buggy and they started to drive. And basically with confidence in his voice

and a costume to fool the common person, she assumed that he was there to help and followed him out without asking him anything and got into his car and drove away. He was fully in belief by the way at this point and he said as much that he was literally invisible, admitting that he believed that the American condition is quote, anonymity and that the only person

who cares about you is you and everybody else ignores you. Unquote. That's it. That's all, that's what he believed is that he, the American condition is people just ignore everybody for themselves and they're not necessarily wrong. Literally that is the plot of the movie Joker. I haven't seen it, so I don't know.

Well, take it for me, it is. Okay, I believe you, yeah, I haven't seen it yet. So it's actually this boldness though, this attempted kidnapping is what got him caught in 1977 for the first time. He was caught because he was so bold for trying to take her. A woman by the name of Carol, which is the woman from the store,

is who got into Bundy's car. However, once they started to drive, she quickly noticed that they were not going in the direction of the police station and when she asked him what was going on, he simply pulled over and it pulled out his handcuffs, an attempt to handcuff her then and there. Carol however, immediately started fighting back.

She struggled against him, but Bundy was still able, get him Carol. She struggled against him, but Bundy was still able to get the cuffs on her. Thankfully however, due to Carol's fighting back, he put the cuffs on the same exact arm. So both cuff links were on her arm. Thanks to Carol's fighting back,

she quickly threw the door open after the cuffs were on her arm and she leapt out of the vehicle onto the ground. Bundy was not deterred and followed her out of the car, trying to hit at her, fight her and get her tied up and back in the car. But Carol, ever the smart thinker, swiftly kicked him in the nuts

and was able to run off and lose him in the process. So he whacked him in the nuts, handcuffs on his arm ran off. Also, unfortunately for Mr. Bundy at this point or fortunately for the rest of society, he also had left the key to the handcuffs in the parking lot of the store where he picked her up, leaving dumb evidence on the ground that would eventually get linked back.

However, unfortunately, pissed off that he lost his intended victim. Later that night, Bundy spontaneously went to a high school play and picked up a high school girl after it was done. Her body was never found to be found ever again for what it was. Damn. But afterward, that would be kind of the end

of Bundy's reign as a serial killer. At some point, driving down the highway in Utah, the police were looking to pull him over. Very simply for speeding. Bundy, getting paranoid, refused to pull over and kept driving until eventually the cops boxed him in and he was forced. They took him out of his car and searched it,

finding his entire murder kit in his car and also able to link his car with the kidnapping that happened that the girl, Carol, went back and reported that happened not too long after. He was brought in. Can you imagine being the cop? Being like, whoa, shit. Whoa.

Oh, it's you, it's you, it's you. What's also interesting to note though, is that during that time, prior to Carol getting out, there was an incident where Bundy was seen during the day coming to the beach, a lakeside beach, and having a conversation with a couple of girls who would then go missing a few days later. The police were got over 200 tips between then and Carol.

They even had a composite sketch of Ted Bundy and their excuse was and their belief was there's no way this university law student, white normal dude would ever be a serial killer. So they ignored all of them until this point. He was then arrested and put on trial for aggravated assault and attempted kidnapping. And he was convicted to 15 years.

However, Bundy also did something that is frustrating due to the ineptitude of the police. He represented himself after a while. And when you represent yourself, he was able to get access to the law's library. And so he would go researching every single time, talking about researching about, just saying he had a research for his own trial.

Those windows had no bars on them. And so Bundy simply leapt out the second story window, spraining his ankle and got away, fleeing to Florida, where he would then have two more victims and three more injured who didn't die before he would be caught again, only to escape a second time. How audacious.

Yeah, through the vents and sneaking out through like the garbage in your typical prison escape style where he would test things. He would test the weight of how the air systems could hold him, starving himself thinner so that he could fit through bars and holes, eventually getting out a second time before he would be recaught rather quickly afterward

and then put away for life and being able to be linked down deep to the murders and being done with until he was put to the electric chair in 1989, I believe. What? Yeah, about to say put him in a dark cell and then fry his ass. Oh my God. Yep, and he did. He got fried.

Again, like I said, you could go into that, but I'm just, I'm so sick of this piece of shit. Like I'm so sick of listening to him. The worst thing about this is that it's like, there's no like mystery here. Like this just happened. Like this guy already did all this shit. Yeah, it doesn't matter what I think it happened.

Well, it's also important to just kind of keep in mind because I think the statistic is there's always somewhere around 30 to 50 serial killers active at any given time in the United States because it's just a fact and you need to, I think it's important to at least be able to try and recognize signs. You know what I mean?

If you've seen some strange people talking to people, just be aware, just be aware. No doubt. The psychology of it all is still fascinating to me. I do wonder if in his younger years, and he lived in a more progressed society, if mental help would have at all changed him or if he was a monster from the very beginning

and there was just no helping someone who was as evil as Ted Bundy was. But that's the end of it. I'm done. I'm washing my hands clean. I'm stepping away from the serial killers for a while. I have had, I have had serial killer nightmares on and off for a bit.

Really? I'm sick of them. Dead serious, 100%. I was tweeting about it a couple of weeks ago. You're one of those guys who really does get all the way in on everything that you do. I think I'm just, I don't know if I'd say, I don't think it's that.

I just think I'm easily emotionally manipulated. Like I'm very easily swept up. You just hear like a bad thing and you're like, I, yeah, bad music, I have to change because it just immediately, not like bad, like bad illicit people, like sad songs or whatever. I'm like, get out of my system. Apex you, yeah.

But I hyper fixate on a lot of things. And if I'm research or something, I'm trying to vibe as much as it as I can. Really? What? Yeah, I know, right? Aliens? That's wild. Aliens? Yeah, dude. Well, that's just always just been a lot.

If you just say the word aliens, you can literally see like smile. Light up, light up. Like the Grinch and how the Grinch's heart grows. Yeah. I just, it's just, the world, the 2019 was one of the most wild years in the alien world. Yeah. It's unfortunate.

Like the rest of everything is like going to shit. The alien, the alien vibe has been wild this year. Maybe that's why they're so big this year. It's because the aliens are like, we got to intervene. Yeah, maybe. So, imagine you find out there's aliens. The government's like, there's aliens. And the government, they're like,

we don't know what they are, what they want, they're aliens. That would be bad, right? So they, you know, I think finally we've reached, I feel like we've finally reached some type of like government level agreement with them. And so that when they announced that the aliens are there, we have a plan. I don't.

I mean, if the aliens wanted to ruin us, they would have already done it. You know what I mean? Right. No, they're waiting. They're waiting. For what? For the right moment.

You don't get it, aliens. I just think we're ruined. Time doesn't matter when you can travel through the galaxy. Well, that's also true in this whole other conversation to have about it. I love the concept of time and consciousness and what is time and what is reality. Anyway, that was Ted Bundy, part three.

Thank you guys for joining us on that. And that rather elongated three-part journey into a piece of garbage who didn't deserve three parts, but got them anyway. We will be back with some lighter stuff in the next episode. We've already got that all planned out. And then I think Alex has a big thing he's been working on for a multi-parter maybe here on the channel,

on this podcast at some point. And I'm going to be diving back into the alien world as well. I think for the next one to give you a heads up. I have, I have a couple of things. I have a couple of things that I could do, but I keep, the thing that sucks is that I keep finding these things that are like a couple of years old,

that are really awesome. And then like some guy will do a YouTube video about it. And then I'm like, well, fuck, like am I, am I just like? We're doing Ted Bundy well after many a true kind podcast have covered him and all that stuff. It doesn't matter as long as it's fun and you can put a spin on it or it's interesting. You're right, you're right.

I should, I should just be real about it. Like I've got some good stuff. I've got some good ones. It's not like our opinions will be the same as theirs. Yeah. But yeah, if you liked room, if you liked room 322, I'm, I'm, I'm trying to do some more stuff like that.

I love it. Sweet. Well guys, if you want to get ahold of us as always, you can always find us on the socials on Twitter. I am at Mathis Games. Jesse is at Jesse Cox. Alex is at Fossian AA. And the podcast itself,

you can just tweet at Chiluminati pod. The sub-breddit is by the same name. You could go drop your stories there. Jesse's karate chopping like crazy. You can't see it, but it's very impressive. Chop it through the air. He's chopping through the air. Chop it through the air.

Thank you. Chop it through the air. Chop it through the air. Whoever you showed up, who showed up to the live show, it was so fucking great. It was great. It was so much fun.

Hopefully we'll get to do another one at some point and we'll see you in the next one, everybody. Goodbye. Bye. Peace. Flash with the rugged RAV4. Or Hall of Weekends worth of fun with the spacious new Sequoia.

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