Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 361: Nazis and the Occult Part 1

Episode Date: August 9, 2026

In part one of this pulp fiction expose, Mathas debunks the myth of Nazi UFO's, and exposes Alex and Jesse to just how nerdy, petty, and insincere their ridiculous hateful doctrine is.CHILLUMINATI is a weekly comedy podcast hosted by Mike Martin, Jesse Cox and Alex Faciane. Hold on to your tin-foil hats and traverse the realms of the mysterious, supernatural, spooky and sometimes truly horrible - and your third eye will never be the same!Thank you to our sponsors - FACTOR: Head to factormeals.com/chill50off and use code chill50off to get 50 percent off and 1 free breakfast item per box for 1 year, while supplies last until 10/31/2026.Subscribe to our Patreon to support us and for extra content like full video episodes, weekly Minisodes, exclusive art, and more at http://patreon.com/CHILLUMINATIPODMERCH: https://theyetee.com/chilluminatiMike Martin - http://www.youtube.com/@themoleculemindset Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - https://www.youtube.com/@StarWarsOldCanonBookClub/Editor: DeanCutty Producer: Hilde @ https://bsky.app/profile/heksen.bsky.social Show Art: Studio Melectro @ http://www.instagram.com/studio_melectro Logo Design: Shawn JPB @ https://twitter.com/JetpackBraggin

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Chuluminati podcast. Episode 361, as always one of your host, Mike Martin, joined by my own Xavier and Magneto. Jesse and Alex, hello. Leaving that tension in the air. Jesse, we must, we must get them to subscribe to the Pokemon. Why did I say Pokemon? No, no, dude.

That's not the show we're doing. Patreon. Try again. Messed on my own joke. Jesse. Charles. That's the wrong guy. That's the wrong guy.

Who does that? Come on. Chal! $1,000. $1,000. $1,000, bitch. That's the juggerna. That's a great.

Remember when Vinny Jones was the juggernaut? And they fucking got him to say, I'm the juggernaut, bitch. It didn't even make any fucking sense. Yeah. And third X-Men movie. What a great movie that was. Last Stand. Yeah.

And there's nothing in current pop culture that has us talking about the X-Men for any reason. Especially not today's episode. Nope. Ready to Joe? Let's just fucking jump right into. Gentlemen, today's episode, we're just going in because this is a big one anyway. So let's just get going on this fucker. I've been excited for this for a while.

Actually, Jesse, I forget if you did a full episode on it or if it was just kind of this partial like side tangent. But we've talked about on the show multiple times the whole World War II hunt for mystical relics. We've talked about it a bunch, but we haven't done an episode. The Indiana Jones Hellboy. Yeah. All of that shit.

Of it all. Yeah, the justice society of it all. Yeah. And that's kind of like where this starts is, because today is part one of Nazis and the occult. There, but there's, you know, I'm glad you kept going. Because I thought you realized, today is part one of Nazis. Pause and I was like, a film by Ken Burns. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.

This is going to be a two-parter, much like in a way we did Atlantis, which is kind of a weird comparison. episode one this this first part is going to be the full retelling or kind of timeline of what I think most people know of the pop culture version of Nazis and the occult what the story is behind it all and kind of like a lot of it that isn't actually true and then next week will be the actual occult shit that they dabbled in through history and where it all started and where that ended up and the teams that America did create to actually go out and like try like, okay, well, I guess if they're going after the fucking spear of long gynus, we might as well look for it as well, because if case it's real, we better find it first.

The spear of long ginesis. Yep. Of long ginesis. Long gines. Long gina. Yeah, when most people think about Nazis in the cult, what they, what most people are honestly picturing is like Indiana Jones and history channel special stuff that most of us watched growing up.

I remember that mermaid documentary that wasn't real that most people thought was real when it happened. Yes. Yes. I do. And honestly, like, I was watching, like, I don't know why I think this, like, but it's kind of in a lot of stuff, this, this trope, I feel like. It's kind of like a forgotten part of a lot of like, I feel like any pulp guy from this time, like, when you go back and you read this stuff, like, I did a bunch of DC comics reading over COVID, for example. and like just the way that the various superheroes and stuff interact with the Nazis, it's like there's,

there is like a mythical tapestry of like Indiana Jones-esque stuff going on. Yeah, I mean, I think that's where most of us kind of came in on all of this when it comes to our knowledge on Nazis and the occult, except for maybe Jesse who like was a history teacher and probably knew a little bit more of the truth there. But like, no, until I did the research, I mostly just knew or understood the pop culture version of all. The UFOs on the moon. Nazis in Africa. All that good stuff. But the actual story, like the actual story of Nazi the cult is like start to finish

so much bigger and like weirder than that. That like I think most people here listening when they hear all this probably haven't even heard the actual extent of which the Nazis did dabble within the occult. So what you're saying is the comic books just were real. They were just completely historically accurate. their records of everything that happened in fun picture form. Yeah. Okay.

Cool. So that's what tonight is going to be. I'm going to tell you the whole thing in order the way it's been kind of just told in pop culture for the last 60 or so years. There's like a secret lodge in Munich that we're going to get to a circle of women in Berlin who claim they were receiving transmissions from another solar system. Oh, that sounds familiar to me now that you bring that up. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

You talked about that on the show before. We may have. Yeah, and wrote down the engineering stuff that came with it and a spear sitting in a museum in a museum case in Vienna that the spear of Lunginus. That supposedly decided the outcome of the second war. All this stuff is like we're going to cover tonight. But our story starts in Munich in August of 1918, which is about three months before Germany loses the first world war and everything in that country comes apart all at once. and it starts with a man who is calling himself Rudolf von Sabetendorf. Zbedendorf had spent a big...

Is that with a Z? I'm so sorry. Is that with a Z? No, S. Subbentendorff. He had spent a huge chunk of his adult life just abroad. A lot of it was in Turkey. And by his own account, what he did while he was over there was get quote unquote initiated into Sufi mystical practice, free masonry, alchemy.

the whole spread of like those types of things that uh a chiquitry board of delicious alchemic practices yes i would a charcutory board of things that a certain type of european gentleman went east to study around this time during the turn of the century what kind of european gentleman who has psychic mind fights with his buddies fucking god damn correct yes the kind of european gentleman type of european gentlemen right right who approached in written used psychic vampire yeah no it's like that time it's that turn of the century time where like mystical practices are very like spiritualism is getting very big after he was traveling abroad he came home to germany with a noble title money that nobody

really could quite account for and a new very specific conviction he believed the german people had a hidden history one that was buried deliberately by people people who benefited from Germans not knowing who they actually were. And this isn't something that you're like starting from scratch with necessarily. Actually, we have to back up six years briefly for like the origin of this. In 1912, a publisher named Theodore Fritch who ran an anti-Semitic magazine called The Hammer and who put out one of the first German editions of, if this sounds familiar from the Project Bluebeam, he put out one of the first,

first German editions of the protocols of the elders of Zion was involved. This guy was involved in setting up a secret society called the German Norden or the Order of Tutans. And that German Norden was built to be a hidden command center for the entire Volksic movement in Germany, which was a place where the people who actually believed all this stuff all could organize without doing it in public that this place was structured like a Masonic lodge, which is genuinely kind of like a weird, funny choice given that these men considered Freemasonry to be part of the internal conspiracy

that they were organizing against. Wonder why they couldn't do it in public, though. Yeah, I wonder why. I wonder what about it. I wonder what so obviously about it makes it so hard to do in public. Because it's a nerdy and they didn't want to be laughed at. I don't think I ever got to that in the script. So maybe we'll just will never know.

Like, playing dungeons and dragons. They didn't want to be made fun of by the people of the street. Yeah. Fucking white supremacist dungeons. Fucking, fucking Aryan dungeons. Just a couple of pals getting together. What's the problem?

I got, okay, I got the joke. Dungeons and Grand Dragons. There you go. There it is. Oh, that's good.

That's good. That's good. Hey, just real quick, fuck the Nazis. Fuck the KKK. Just so you guys know. Yeah.

Just so you guys know. That's a hard stance. We hear at Jluminati podcast all. We're not going to pull a Mard shot. That's a shout out to a long, where she was like, but they built roads. Oh, we're not going to do that.

We're not going to bring that back. I didn't know that was even a thing. Oh, my God. Old owner of the Cincinnati Reds. She's like, they built roads. Like, okay.

That sounds like some, that sounds like some serious, that sounds like some serious Cincinnati drama right there. It was when you lived in Ohio that everyone, that and Pete Rose, everyone was like, whoa. Oh,

say it ain't so. So by 1918, German and Norden in Bavaria alone had somewhere north of 1,500 members, which is honestly like a kind of a startling growth rate for an organization recruiting during a World War, mind you, in which most of its potential membership were off dying in a trench somewhere during World War I. Everybody who is home was probably just old and scared of others. Yeah, exactly. And so this is where we get to the point where this is the next individual I need you to meet because he's the guy who actually named this thing and almost nobody knows who this guy is. Walter Nowhouse. He was a Berlin art student who went to the war and came back wounded.

And instead of going back to art, he took a job with the German in Norden. And his job title was the keeper of pedigrees. That was, I'm sorry, is that problem? That is just like, just, I thought you were going to say his name's Jerry Aryan. Like, the keeper of pedigrees is the most like lame, nerdy fucking bullshit way of being like, the racist librarian. The thing is, that's he kind, that was kind of his job was to be a racist librarian. in the

his cool in a way I'll be honest in a way it sounds like if we were talking about the Westminster dog show there'd be a guy

who was the keeper of pedigrees yes that was this guy's job was can I see our papers on the nation nos us

on out in but the thing is like if you wanted to join the German and Norden and follow the Volksic beliefs you had to prove

your bloodline and so somebody had to sit there and yes check your people work. You know that was some bullshit too where he they were like are you gay no are you gay no are you gay no does your mom know you're gay no oh so you're gay denied and just sends them away

fucking stupid it's like actually how it is that's like what they want to do it's so fucking funny thank you so much to factor for sponsoring today's episode and I am not going to lie to you my routine is kind of falling apart these last couple of months my schedule's gone sideways and eating like a functional adult kind of the first thing to fucking go it was whatever was the fastest probably around midnight and I threw that thing in the back of my mouth and ate as fast

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Chill 50 off at factormeals.com. See website for more details. This is something that's held true through history and holds true to our freaking regime today. And this is coming from me. Everybody who's like a fucking mean, fascist like ruler is a fucking dweeb. They're all goddamn dwebs

and they're not even smart ones. They're just the annoying kid in class who couldn't get the attention that they wanted. And so ended up being, a hateful piece of shit. Self-centered, completely incontinent. It's just a, it's just not like us three podcaster. Incontinent.

Oh, yeah. All the time. Pretty much. Pretty much. So if you wanted to get into the secret society, you had to prove your bloodline. And that's where Walter Nauhaus came in because he was the one that would sit and check your paperwork. A wounded veteran in his 20s from World War I.

is now a genealogy admin for secret society. And what is he even doing? Like, he's just like, there's not even the internet. Like, he's just like, yes. I'm telling you, it's literally the end of a knight's tale. I promise you, they're like, oh, yeah, no, it's fine. Like, this guy's legit. God, I've seen that movie like at least 10 times.

Just looking at his fucking eyes and fucking hair and being like, yep. Yeah, check, you out. And you swear you're all the way white. They're going to get their public papers from the government. They've got to get, like, their births. like prove their birth line. No, this was just some like club. You know what I mean?

Oh, 100%. They weren't doing any research. This guy was like, oh, is that guy cool? All right. Oh, he is going back 17 generations? Like they just BS, you know. Well, this dude, the keeper of pedigrees was the one he moved to Munich in 1917. And he was the one that set up what he was calling a German study group.

And the cover name he picked for it was Thule. Are you, have you heard of the Thule Society boys? Yes. Yes. Okay. This is where that name comes from. Is this fucking dweeb of a dude? So this is like, so this is like central not just to the occultism of the Nazis.

Correct. But to the whole thing. Yeah. That's why we have to go back. That's why we have to go back. That's fucking crazy, actually. And the fact that they're checking papers at the clubhouse stage is fucking ridiculous. Okay.

I just want to say for the record, I went online and everyone can go do this and it's really weird. I went online and I just typed in Thule because I was like, oh, well, I would love to see some more stuff on Google about this. And the first thing that pops up is Thule.com, which is a merchant, like they sell stuff, right? Except the description is since 1942, we've made it our business to bring you closer to the world and your passions. Y'all, are they not? Are they Nazis? Is that a Nazi company? Maybe. That's crazy.

though to be like since the 40s where nothing weird was happening we've really what do you mean bro breaking here at Chuluminaity the Thule Society is still around Thule is no Dana

I have to look at that because I did not it's crazy because it's baby carriages and like dog crates but everything's black which makes it a little more sinister I kind of love it. It's Swedish it's Swedish it's

from Hitler's store southern Sweden. That's basically Germany, dude. No, no mention of it. Yeah. No mention of Jesse trying to get canceled. Clearly not. It's just a very interesting, like, it's very strange that that's what it says,

and that's the time period. I wonder. The word Thule is actually comes from ancient Greek Roman literature from Ultima Thule, which is like the edge of human exploration. Oh, don't worry. I've been there. In Final Fantasy 14, End Walker. Oh, my God.

The final, no spoilers. It's great. You go to Ultimate. You go to Ultimate Fool, dude. So it's just because they're like, like, a, like an outdoor company. It's just this guy, Walter Nowhouse just stole, took the name and used it as the cover name for his German study group. And in 1918, Sabtensteadenstor.

So fucking. They're, they're so cute about it. You know, it gets cute. They're so cute about it. And in 1918, Sabtendorf, who by then had been a. elected to run the Bavarian province of a breakaway faction that called itself the Germanine Norden, Walt Wachter of the Holy Grail. Jesus Christ. Found Nauhaus liked the name and actually took the name from Nowhous's study group and the Thule Society was formerly dedicated on the 18th of August 1918.

So that's where the name comes from. Nowhouse used it for a study group and then German. the German Norden, Walt Wachter of the Holy Grail was like, I like that name. We're going to use it and we're going to call ourselves the Fool Society. And they formally dedicated the Thule of the Society in August of 1980. And these are the assholes that came up with the Aryan shit? Oh, yeah. We're getting there.

That's these guys. Oh, so it's so it started from fucking German studies, the librarian of racism. Dude. It's all pathetic. Oh, my God. All of them. Every one of them is a pathetic fucking loser, dude. It's insane.

All we needed to stop Nazis from ever happening was hand a fucking kid in the 40s, a copy of GTA San Andreas and we're fine. It could have worked out all his fucking ills against society on PS2. This is fucking so embarrassing that he's like gay. You know, it's all right. And like give him a hug and let him live his life. Could have stopped a lot of it too. This is so embarrassing.

It is so super. So like I said just a moment ago, this is the tool is the name out of a ancient Greek and Roman geography. The furthest north anybody had ever gone and could ever imagine going. It was a land at the very top of the world, past where the maps stopped. The most Nordic thing you can imagine is what you're saying. Virgil uses it in the A-Nade Ultima Thule, the most distant north. And what Sabatendorf and the people around him believed was that Thule was actually

legit 100% real. there had been a civilization up there, one that was ancient and advanced, and that when the ice came, the survivors came south, and that everything worth anything in European and history came down from the people who used to live in Thule. And the way they discovered it was by thinking about it? Well, they read the ancient piece of literature by Virgil and we're like, oh, it's not a story, it's real, and the great ice came and they all had to move. And that is, that's why European history is so.

That's why all the white people are so awesome. And that is that, that's his belief, not mine. Don't give me that look, Jesse. These are the racist people. Oh. This is his reason. And that this is the founding belief in everything else the Thule Society did was built on top of this core belief.

That Thule was real. It was an ancient advanced civilization. They moved south to Europe. And that's where all of these people. And for some reason, and for some reason. and for some reason those guys just a little better this explains a lot of including

Norden or like that kind of stuff. All right. Yep. So let's talk about what actually happened in these secret meetings because the shit is fucking weird as hell. So when they would have their meetings, they met in a hotel. Nothing crazy

or creepy. Just a hotel. The Vier Garesen, the Jerez. Zaitin. The Vierre Jerez. All right, boys, I'm going to give you the you, how do you say this German hotel name? Yeah, yeah, Jarre's, hmm. You know what?

I'm too American for this. Jars Height. Jars Heighten. Yars Jatheaten. The Vierre Jarre Zittain. Yeah, the Vierre Jarre Zaytain was out in Munich. And it was then, it is now a five-star luxury hotel still standing. You can go and book a room this weekend if you want.

And I'm fairly confident it would be a nice day. I'm good. Sabetendorf had the money to do this. So what he did was rent the rooms of a naval officers club inside the hotel. It was a space that could hold about 300 people. And he decorated it with the society arms. The emblem is a gorgeous hotel. It's actually very, it's fucking, it's a five star fucking hotel for a reason.

That's how you get it. That's how you get them. Unsurprisingly, I don't think you'll be surprised of what the emblem was for their society. It was a curved swastika, pointed right, sitting behind a drawn sword with a wreath around it. And they're greeting to one another,

which they used out loud was Sig und Heil. So it's like this is like Nazis origins, like the King's Man version of Nazis. Like this is like, this truth to some of the, to the, to the,

especially these beginnings. parts, but we're going to go into the main fictional stuff. You know, yes, I want to get to the beginning and like, anytime anyone hits the Sig Heil, all I hear, all, did either of you see the mystery science theater 3,000 movie? The one they released like in theaters. No, there's a moment where a man walks out of an elevator and he just looks like a movie Nazi. And like in the highest pitch voice is like, it's hilarious. I think about it all the time, and I don't know why.

It's, you know what? Sorry, Nazis. It's been ruined. Your whole aesthetic has been ruined. I'm so sorry. There's a lot of things I think. When you realize where the beginning of it all was a bunch of fucking dwebuses, like it's kind of ruined when they fucking did all that.

All those terrible things. I'm pretty sure that's what they were going for, though. They wanted, like that was their vibe. I'm pretty sure what they wanted. Yeah. It's for you to be afraid of them. Think about it. Like the in 19, this is, this is all happening in 19.

This is before Hitler. had even met these people yet. Oh yeah. This is like right post war. This is like, uh, yep. The or this is like Nazi origins like Wolverine origins. Yeah. Yeah.

Literally like it's like a little different on purpose like episode one. Yeah. Like the clone troopers don't look quite like they're like Sig Oondale. Yeah. It's kind of a little bit different. Right. Right. Right.

Exactly. This one has cur. No. Our swastika's curve. The, uh, the, uh, the emperors like, uh, super soul. soldiers, his royal guard are blue. Exactly. Meetings for these people were on Saturdays, which was the day of Saturn, which was very important.

It was the stories that was deliberate as to why that was happening. And who was in the room is honestly, probably not who you're picturing quite yet. The membership skewed heavily toward academics, aristocrats, and businessmen, at least at the top of it anyway. We're talking some doctors, doctors, publishers, lawyers as a prince in there. You can just call them rich people. It's cool. There's no difference that the people Crowley was rolling with when it comes to the idea of like a bunch of people with a lot of free time. I would wager the people who had jobs didn't have time for this nonsense.

Yeah. Somewhere in this area too from Munich, these meetings were around 200 people, maybe 250 or so people. And remember in the greater Bavaria area, area, there were 1,500 people. The greater Bavarian area. Yeah, the words are throwing out. The great of Bavarian area, there was Samarians. But like you said, yeah, like these were people with money and standing. That's it.

These were just rich fuckers. And there was a ritual side to all of this, which came down from the German and Norden. And it's exactly as ridiculous and exactly as serious as kind of Alistair Crowley stuff was. The initiations were patterned on Masonic ceremony with blindfolds, a grandmaster. There were knights there. There were barred there. I'm not making this up to people who played forest nymphs were also involved.

Wagner was playing. There were runes involved in all of this and a whole system of racial mysticism that came out of an Austerian named Guido von List who is a whole. He's a whole episode on his own if we ever want to fucking go down that rabblehole. What was he bringing to the table? Racial mysticism. A lot like like. He's like the one. Motan guy, right?

He's like the fucking like, like fucking weird. They're literally, literally what this is is it's like, you know how like you always see in like comic books and shit? It's like, oh, they're like the church of crime. It's like the evil version. They literally were like being like the evil version of the masons or something. They have like a little bit of mysticism, a little bit of elitism, a little bit of like academic racial, like racial, like racial mysticism.

You think about, well, we haven't covered her yet, but we'll talk about it too when we do Madame Blavatsky, where it's this idea that like being black, for instance, isn't evil. It just means you're further away from, from God and power. The idea of, we've talked about this on the show like, oh, if it's Native American, for example, there's something spiritual about it that like a white dude doesn't quite understand, which makes it magic. You know what I mean? And so there's a lot of like that that's in American history.

You're talking about like Bagger Vance vibes. Yeah, all right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. Okay, all right.

But underneath all this fucking theater of rituals and ceremonies and blindfolds and people playing force, nymphs, and who else? It's just magical privilege. It's just magical privilege justification. Underneath all that was paper fucking work. Was paperwork the whole time? Because before you got the blindfold and the sword and the music and all this shit, you had to sign a declaration attesting that neither you nor your wife or partner had

again, any Jewish or non-white ancestry to the best of your knowledge and conscious in writing and filed. I'm so curious what 1917 non-white qualified as. You know what I mean? Because like Italians weren't white, Irish weren't white for a while. They barely got on there. You know? Yeah. I mean, I guess like, I guess like probably there wasn't. Is it just, is it just the idea of like, are you a Nordic, like, it's vibes. It's got to be vibes. And that's what I'm saying. Back to the whole idea of like, I'm the keeper of the pedigree.

It's just you walk in, dudes like, all right, he checks out. And then you're, then you're, otherwise, I don't know how any of this plays out in any, like, real level other than like, that guy. Yeah, he's a friend of a friend. So we're letting him in. The guardian of the paradigm or whatever has the fucking, uh, he has the fucking blessed racism. his racism is the best. And so if he wipes his racism on you and you pass the test and he doesn't, he doesn't feel threatened by you, he'll let you in. All right.

Well, that's pretty much correct. You have to bring him snacks. At this time. Yeah. You have to have hundreds of thousands of dollars. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Now, it's fun to think about like at this time again, 1918, 1919, 1919, that they were just sitting around in their secret meetings through rituals and arguing about fucking Atlantis and Lumier or some shit. But again, at this time, shit was falling apart. Munich was falling apart. Bavaria had a socialist government under a prime minister named Kurt Eisner at this time. In the Thule Society, under the cover of being a study group for Germanic antiquity, was actually running weapon caches, forging documents, operating couriers, and gathering intelligence. They were tied into the freight corps, which was the right-wing paramilitary formations, that were the muscle of the German counter-revolution in one of those units.

The Fright Corps? Fright Corps? Oh, my God. I was like, do you think we're the baddies? That, it's that. Right, there you go. The Fright Corps. Yeah, no, Fright Corps.

The Fright Corps, Oberland, came directly out of Thule circles. And in December of 1918, Sabetendorf planned to kidnap Kurt Eisner. That plot failed. went nowhere, however. But in February of 1919, Eisner was shot dead in the street by a young aristocrat named Count Anton von Arco Oof Valley. And,

there's like, Arco Oof Valley had applied to join the Thule Society. Arco Oof Valley. Dude, I'm not kidding. That's what happens when I see the gas prices in the studio city, Bazinga. There's his name right there for you. So he's Anton and he's of the Arcoe,

Oof Valley. Correct. He's Von Arco of the Valley. This is the guy that shot Eider. But the weird part about it is that he applied to join the Thule Society and he had been rejected

because his mother was Jewish. So like, isn't that crazy how you just hate someone and then they just turn around and come back at you with some hate and maybe kill you? It's like fucking crazy. Well, no, no, he didn't even kill a Thule. No, he went because the Thule Society

was planning on kidnapping Kurt Eisner failed. This guy. when killed Kurt Eisner and he had been rejected from the Thule Society. So he still did what the Thule Society kind of wanted. So he's trying to like come through and be allowed in maybe even though he didn't actually get in. He's trying to like prove himself anyway kind of deal.

Yeah. Like a weird like henchman. Literally next line of my script I say is there is a consistent reading of this that he was trying to prove himself. And he was trying to prove that he's like, this is the biggest way he. could like show that he was on their side. See, I'm hateful enough even though my mom is Jewish. Exactly correct.

That's exactly what people like. Again, there's no way to prove the motive. We don't know the motive even to this day. Being the best, dude, the best race. The best at what he does. April 1919 rolls around and the Thule Society gets its first martyrs. And this is all documented and genuinely like actually horrible. It's not part of a myth.

By April, Munich had gone further. left and there was an actual communist government, the Bavarian Soviet Republic, and it lasted about a month, and it was chaos the whole time. Freik Corps and regular army units were closing in on the city from outside, and inside the city, the Red Army unit started raiding nationalist strong points, and the Thule Society was near the top of that list because Thulists, as they had become known, had become accused of trying to infiltrate the government and stage a coup, which seems kind of obvious after like they're part of the Frike corpse at this point. Look, it's not their fault, okay?

Nobody likes their point of view. The only thing they can do is cheat. You can't hold it against them. They have to do it. It does sound weirdly familiar in some bizarre ways, does it not? It's like the people that they represent don't actually like the stuff that they're trying to get across. It's weird how that happens.

And on the 26th of April, they broke into the society premises and arrested seven people as right wing spies. Among them was the society secretary, Countess Heila von Westarp. There was also Prince Gustav of Thurn and Taxis, who was 30 years old and related to that to taxis. He's the prince of taxis. He's the prince of Thurn and Taxis.

Oh, I forgot about Thurn. And taxes. Yeah. Yeah. He was like, Sears and Roboch. The Robock thing, yeah, like, they got rid of half a bit. It just became Sears.

People just really want to get around and they didn't really need Thern. There's no need for Thur. It was all about tax. Yeah. It was all about just getting a taxi at that point. This guy was 30 and he was related to half the royal houses in Europe at this time. The Duke of Waymo. That's just a computer though.

That's just like, that's a Dell desktop. That's not nice to say about German people. And obviously amongst them was Walter Nowhouse, the guy who came up with the name Thule, or decided to use the name Thule, he didn't come up with it. They were held in the cellar of Lutpold Gymnasium, which is a secondary school, which the Red Army had been using as a post. And on the 30th of April, sit four days later as a reprisal for reports of red soldiers being killed outside the city, they were taken up out of that cellar,

lined up against a wall in the courtyard and shot by a firing squad. Ten people were, would be killed that day. The seven Thueless, some of them and some captured cavalry men. Because remember two, World War I is kind of like a mix of classical warfare and modern warfare. It was a true cluster fuck.

World War I was absolutely the most volatile shit that's ever happened was World War I. It was not great. Cavalry men against machine guns. It's like one of the... It sucked. It sucked. Yeah. It sucked.

And by one account, an elderly Jewish professor who had been arrested for openly criticizing the Soviet government was one of the ones killed, which obviously tells you everything you need to know about how that's... What's next? They're going to arrest a teacher for clapping? They're not going to know. Why would they do that? It's fucking crazy. The next day after that, the fright corpse broke through into Munich and what they did over the following week in the name of those hostages was just simply a massacre. hundreds of people.

And the killings at the Lutpold, the Munchner-Gesselmord, and the Munich hostage murder became the founding wound, essentially, of the German nationalist right in Bavaria. It got commemorated every single year. It got put in speeches and pamphlets, newspapers for the next 15 years, and then for 12 years after that by a government. And inside the Thule world, those seven men and women got understood. as sacrifices rather than as just like, of course,

martyrs to the cause. Then you carry the flame. Yes, exactly. God damn right. Exactly. The way the story gets told basically is that that is the moment it stopped being a hotel lodge of secret societies and turned into something that everybody in it believed it was now owed.

They were going to go in and fucking take over the government if it was the last thing they did because how dare they do what they did to the people of their society. And literally it kind of was. I mean, that's the scary part is like, yeah, it kind of, it kind of was. So like, now we have to answer the question that this whole thing kind of like hinges on is, which is how you get from a room full of aristocrats, doctors and people with money in a five-house star hotel, to add off fucking Hitler and the Nazis. I thought you're going to say like, Tivril.

Well, that's still coming. And the answer, according to this story and a lot of the paperwork, honestly, as well, is that Sabantendorf had a problem that he was becoming more and more aware of. The Thule Society was full of kind of exactly the wrong people to get this movement to take over the government. Sniveling ass lickers with no charisma? Yeah, people with money and power, university people who write their name with a dollar sign in it because there's an S in their name.

Exactly correct. People who take the trans people off to you and put straight men right back on it. Yep, exactly. Exactly correct. It's like the same fucking people, dude. It is, but basically, so Bentendorf, what he wanted now was like a movement. And a movement couldn't really come from the people who already had influence in power. There was a ceiling to what he could do with these people.

What he needed was workers because for movements to work, you need like the working class people. So he commissioned somebody to fucking go get them. The man he commissioned was named Carl Harer. And horror, which H-A-R-R-E-R-E-R-H-O-R-H-R-R. You got the fright car, you got the Fear Hotel, you got the fright corpse, you got Carl horror. This is a punk band, okay? This is a punk band.

This is not history. This is like the Ramones. Like, what the fuck is going on? Honestly, I would say like doing what, this is another one of those two, one of those like topics where there's no good solid single source. This is some patchwork research has to be done. This guy is one of the kind of like, he shouldn't be forgot. amongst a lot of these names.

He really shouldn't be, because he was kind of imperative to how this shit got off the ground. Horror or Subalbadorf? Horror, horror. He was a Thule member. This guy was 28 years old, and his day job was sports journalist.

Fantastic. He wrote for a right-wing paper, and the Fool Society tasked him with going out and building something that could reach the common German worker in Munich with the... The Manosphere, if you will. you know, it's a commonality there because you go out there and reach them with their ideas.

He wanted to hit their, the Thule Society's ideas to get out. So you're telling me it was a sports journalist whose other job was convincing, like, non-rich people to get to the right-wing ideology. That was their plan. That's stupid. It's crazy. It never work. That's dumb as hell.

Now it was a fear factor guy. I don't know what you're talking about. That sounds insane. He wants them to go out there with these ideas because nothing the middle class parties were doing was landing with them. Also sound familiar? Also sound very, very, very familiar. They're like, these people are desperate for somebody to come in and be like, we're going to make change. We're going to fix it.

And the current elected those in power are fucking sitting there with their thumbs up their ass doing nothing. It's a whole vulnerable group of very frustrated, rightfully frustrated. people who just needed somebody to come tell them it's going to be okay. You know what's absolutely crazy for as silly of a game as it is? The board game Secret Hitler perfectly describes this moment in history, where if you play as Secret Hitler, you have all these advantages and you just have to not talk about it. And if you play as one of the liberals, you just shoot yourself with the foot constantly. It's crazy that board game so perfectly encapsulates this moment.

How this all works. It's how it all works. Over and over and over again, one of the worst things I ever did for my life was decided to go to college initially to major in history because I know too much and the patterns are there. And like it sucks how much it just keeps happening. People talk about history repeating and then people will say, no, it's more like a river and it flow. Here's the truth. Every 15 years, people just forget what happens. A generation.

Every, yeah, exactly. Like people just stop. Either they stop caring. they like we aren't even four years out of COVID and people have blocked out that entire period like I know everyone it changed the way our world is on a fundamental level no one talks about it like how truly messed up we all are and it's leading to a lot of really messed up things well at least measles is back great cool man so in 19 so cool so horror in 19 18 18 18 It's even better that you're from fucking Rhode Island than you're trying to say this shit.

I was hoping that I don't feel like I have a new one's an accent, except there's a couple times where I'm like, God, damn it, I can't get rid of it. In 1918, Harr met a man named Anton Drexler at a nationalist. Anton Drexler got beat up by Indiana Jones. Like that's a man came in and said, this is your last chance, Drexler. Give me the antidote. So yeah, Harrah is on his job. He's out there now, sports journalist, on a mission to reach the working class. And in doing so at a nationalist rally, he meets Anton Drexler.

And Drexler was a toolmaker and a locksmith who worked at the railway depot. And he had his own little outfit made up mostly of guys that he worked with. The two of them, along with a handful of others, formed a thing called the Politzcher, our bit. Yeah, you good. Jesse, you want to tell me how you say it? Do you have like a Google, quick Google translate? Hold on.

I got this. I got this. I got this. I want you to say it. I want you to say that last word. The Pulitzer. Arbitzer circle. Arbiter circle.

I've got the translation here in a second, but I want the word out there. The polity share arbiters circle. Arbiteracle. They are the political workers circle. That's what that means. And they sense. And they like basically this guy, this locks of Drexler and these guys. So are so.

So arbiters circle. So it's a circle of the arbiters. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly correct. And they met periodically in beer halls to talk about nationalism and what else. Talk about the Jews.

And there were never more than a few dozen of them. There was, and there was friction between those two men right from the beginning too, which turns out to be, it turns out to matter. enormously going into the story because Harrow wanted a small semi-secret discussion club with smart men in a room talking, which makes sense because that is what the Thule Society was and that is the only model he had ever had. But Drexler wanted an actual political party that went out there and got members actively. And Drexler won. And he had encouragement from a man named Paul Taffel, who was a Thule member, a leader in the Pan-German League,

and a director of one of the largest engineering firms in Germany. So that bitch had money. And that money and the blessing were coming from the lodge either way for Drexler, because that's what the lodge wanted. So Sabtendorf wanted. And on the 5th of January 1919, in a Munich Hall hotel called the First in Felderhoff, Drexler and Herrer founded the German workers.

party. There we go. The DAP. Yep, exactly. This is where it all goes. Drexler wanted to call it the German socialist workers party and Herrer objected to the word socialist so they dropped it. And I honestly, I would have, I would love to know what Herr thought about how that turned out 11 years later from this moment. You're telling me they were this close to being called the Natsos? I mean, yeah. Yeah. This close. Do you think there's anything, anything would even happen if they had to go with that? Too bad of a name. They're not so.

I have been not so convinced. It would have been over. But that is like, that's the vehicle. It was just a few dozen guys in a beer hall founded by a, founded by a sports writer and a railway locksmith that just got paid to come into existence by a rich dude in an occult lodge that met on Saturdays. And that was it.

That's all fucking took. Wait, what are we talking about? A hundred years ago, sorry. Oh, right. I was going to say recently, but I got confused for a minute. Yeah. But when after that moment happened, it sat there for eight months, basically doing nothing. Until the 12th of September 1919, a 30-year-old army corporal walked into a beer hall meeting on the German workers party because he had been ordered to.

After the war, Hitler had stayed in the army. And he had been picked up by an intelligence and propaganda. under a captain carl mayor and the job was going around to the political groups that had sprung up all over munich and reporting back on whether any of them were a threat or worth cultivating he had been to a bunch of these already this at this point for hitler was actually just another one just another group he was going to and so he's like a hate scout yeah or a recruiting yeah like a hate scout either shut them down or recruit them depending on how he liked their hatred swing you know and what happened is that a guest speaker got up and started making an argument that Bavaria should separate from Germany and join up with Austria.

And Hitler, who was sitting there to take notes, could not keep his mouth shut. He got up and tore into the guy. And by all accounts, apparently he did it well enough that the room stopped. and Anton Drexler, the railway locksmith, watched this to him, total stranger, dismantle somebody in front of his membership and thought, hey, I need that. I was like, holy shit. Yeah. This guy sucks.

We got to get this guy on our team. Exactly. Drexler then chased him down on the way out and pushed a pamphlet into his hands, something Drexler had written out himself called My Political Awakening. A turning point, if you will. A turning point, if you will. And a few days later, a postcard turned up telling Hitler, he had been accepted into the party and should come to a committee meeting, which was held in a rundown beer house,

in which, as I understand it, he was somewhat even insulted by that to even have to be going there. Wait, why? It's just like, that's just what, like, it seemed like he didn't like going to like a rundown beer hall. He rather have been going to somewhere nice. Like, you really, a fucking beer hall? We're not going to go meet somewhere secret. He was a prince or something, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Prince. Before this, he was a prince or something, right? That's why he has these kind of tastes. So when Hitler joined, there were no membership cards and no numbers at all. Numbers did not get issued until January of 1920. And when they did get issued, the party started the count not at one for each card number, but at 5001.

What? Yeah. Just to seem bigger? Dead on correct. They started a 501 so that anybody who saw a membership card would assume that there were at least 500 members. That's so funny. Because as we all know, if you just say there's more people at something, then there are. There's no way to prove him wrong.

It feels like you're trying to make a reference and I just don't get it. I don't get references on this show. I don't know what he's talking about. I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, don't worry about it. Hitler was assigned a number 555. The actual membership was 55 people. He was the last one.

It's like they're exaggerating in their inauguration, right? Like they're like inaugurating you and they're exaggerating on the number. Yeah, it's a good analogy. I like that. It's a good metaphor. The organization that would kill, would go on to kill. Tens of millions of human beings began by patting its numbers like a guy fucking inflating his follower account with bots or something.

like this is where they all or something like that or something like that would never actually happen to real life but just like an eye thought you know so that's like that's how this all came to and that's how Hitler got pulled into this thing like he actually got he was supposed to be working against them and he ended up getting recruited by them

now we got to move on to the next man because all this happened within that with the first year the version of the story we're going to tell is like says the mechanism is not the interesting part and that what actually happened to Adolf Hitler in the first year was something else entirely and which we're going to reference next episode.

But in this story, all of this happened. What happened next is because of one man. A man. Grigory Rasputt. No, I'm sorry. And that's where he shows up in this universe. Dietrich Eckhart. Eckert was a poet and a playwright and a journalist.

And he was about 27 years older than Hitler. He was a serious drinker. And what else? A morphine user. And he was already a known. What else? And he was already apparently a known quantity. in Munich when Hitler was nobody.

And what Eckert did for him is not disputed. He took a man who could shout at a beer hall at this point and taught him how to work a room. This man gave him like how to work people. He taught him how to dress, how to talk to people with money. He got him into the right houses and introduced him to the right people. He published the party newspaper. He wrote the lyrics to the first party anthem. And when Hitler wrote mine.

Some sort of party rock anthem? It's a part of party rock anthem. They don't want to hear the words. And when Hitler wrote Mindcomp, the dedication at the front of it is to Dietrich Eckert. So like this is not, you know, this is a real dude who really influenced Hitler. What the story adds, though, like what adds to the mythology is what Eckert was doing when nobody was like watching. Like there was a mythology added to Eckert. Because in this telling of the story, Eckert was more than a mentor.

Like, he was a full-fledged Alistair Crowley-style magician. Tell me Hitler was his fucking star child. And on Lee's God, tell me Hitler was his fucking cosmic star child, fulcrum, fucking red woman of his own religion. He was a full-bone magician, a very serious one, and the central figure in the occult circle running through Thule. And the account says he had been told by a guiding spirit before he ever laid eyes on Hitler that he was going to meet a young man who was going to become something enormous. His job was to prepare him.

Cool, man. So, yeah, all right. So Hitler was his chosen boy, his Harry Potter. He was. He was his Harry Potter in this moment. So the seances that supposedly ran through the stool circle in Munich were not like just parliol. entertainment per se. They were the training.

Also fucking each other's wives. What? That's part of it. That's just part of magic. Someone clip it. Someone clip it. And the claim is that Eckert put Hitler through a deliberate program

of magical initiation, opened him up and handed him a line of communication to something that was not human. I think I read a Doctor Who about this. There might actually be. He was in the beer hall push in 1923. He was arrested for it.

He was released from Landsberg Prison in poor health. And he died the day after Christmas that same year of a heart attack. And the story says that on his deathbed, he told the people around him not to grieve because he had done the thing. Not to grieve because he had done the thing that he was put here to do. That Hitler was going to dance, but Eckert had called the tune. and that he had initiated him, opened his third eye, and given him the means to talk to the powers that be, and that he, Dietrich Eckert, would end up having influence history more than any other German who ever live. And then, white power Merlin died right then and there.

Yeah, so supposedly that's the story behind his, like, is the raising of Hitler to be the kind of charismatic asshole that he became. and two more things came out of the Thule Society that are concrete. The first is the newspaper. In 1918, the Thule Society bought a struggling little Munich weekly called the Munchener Biobachter, or the Munich Observer. And in an effort to get the circulation up, they bolted a sports section onto it and renamed it the Munich Observer and sports paper. All right. Well, I got it. read it now. And that has nothing to do with him being like a sports guy? Well, they

I think it absolutely had something to do with it. They knew that that would be a way to get the like normie working class person to pick up the paper, draw them in with something that they all like in a weird manosphere style, and then slip in the propaganda as they continue to curiously read this paper they've never bought before. What are the crazy plan? It would never work. Which Even that the man Thule sent to go recruit the working class, it was a sports, like a sports journalist. Yeah, this obviously is what it's fucking for. In the summer of 1919, though, they renamed it again. It became the Volkisker Biot Bachter.

And from 1920 to the end of the war, it was the official newspaper of the Nazi party. And the second thing that the Thule Society did. Wait, when did they become the Nazi party? Not yet, but like this would be the future Nazis. this would be their paper. And the second thing is the party itself, which we just walked through, a lodge commissioned a sports writer

who recruited a locksmith, who founded a party, which an army informant was sent to spy on and who joined them instead, and who within a year had shoved Carl Harer out of his own organization and then taken it over completely named Hitler. So the way this story gets told,

and the way it has been told since the 60s, is that the Nazi party did not come up out of German politics, that it came out of this lodge, out of a room full of men in this hotel, and reclaiming an inheritance from a lost ancient civilization at the top of the world who needed all this. So, Thule is the political end of this. There is a second society,

and the second one is where, like, it gets into the weirder shit that is more mystical in this episode than potentially factual. And again, because this shit is very patchwork, I have to back up to 1871 briefly to an English novel called The Coming Race, written by a very famous and very popular writer named Edward Bulwer Lytton. And the plot of it is that a man falls down a mine shaft and finds an entire civilization living underneath the earth. I know who this is. I know what this is about. People called the fucking shit.

The Vrillya, who are descended from the surface humans who went underground a long, long time ago. And it makes the Vrillya, what they are, is that they have mastered an energy. And of course, it's called Vrill Energy. It's called Vrgone energy. Right up there. Vrill heals. Drill destroys. Vrill moves objects and Vrill powers machines.

Vrill works at a distance, and it responds to a trained human. will. The Vrilla are calm and beautiful and unbelievably powerful and they are entirely certain that eventually they are going to come up to the surface and replace us and they are not even mean about it. They're just consider it obvious. They're not even mean about it. They're just like here for fun. They're fine. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Now obviously this shit written was published as fiction, but there were people in Germany and this is like, it's stupid that this is what a lot of his hinges on. There were people in Germany who read it and concluded actually, um, that wasn't made up, that Bolwer Littin had been an initiate himself and that he had been given

real knowledge and had put it out into the world in the only form that would not get him in trouble, which is as a novel that nobody would take seriously, except these, these guys. I mean, it makes sense. So wait, what you're saying is, faced with the end of their ideology, these people, rather than face the music and decide that their truth was not real, bent the rules of reality based on fiction, which they willingly turned into reality as well as anything in their life. I feel like you're trying to say something, and I don't know what you're trying to say. It feels like it feels like it's impossible to ignore the dark magic sort of impetus. at the center of all fascist thinking

and the sort of manipulative way that it does things using like repetition of symbols and sigils. It's so... There's a lot. That's a whole brother. It's so... You know, fucking gross.

I've been ripping through just like... Not even because I was reading books about it before this research, but doing these couple of episodes. I have been like ripping through other magical books and stuff. Not in like a way of just being like, oh, I believe, like, all of this on them. Like, let me learn. But like, it is kind of crazy.

Like symbols and what you would call sigils and intent and will can do over a majority of people if you were just relentless. And it's a whole, it's a whole conversation, dude. It's a whole episode. We can't get into it right now because we got more. But like, yes, a thousand percent. Like 1,000 percent. It's like to its core.

It's like a belief in just being the best. that's taken to you're taking consensus reality and in changing it in enough people's minds that it becomes consensus reality until the other aspects that you promised would come along with it don't

and so your control over consensus reality can only last so long deception can't last forever truth always comes out one way or another 10 or so years yeah yeah yeah over 10 years or something like that

yeah that's funny I didn't use to care that much about fascism until about 10 years ago. But the more that I look into it now, the more it is just... But we can have a whole conversation that that's part of the propaganda of us, how we got raised, of being like, we beat the bad guys, it's over, fascism is gone, except for these other parts of the world that we just, you know, like small and we ignore. We've been paying attention to fascism at the same rate that we've been paying attention to occultism, at least on this show, or at least in my mind.

and the similarities are just pretty wild, just bizarre. Yeah, that's another reason we have to put this like Nazis and the cult and other topics that are coming up in the next year, two years, three years later after doing magic. Because magic, I know like people, there are the subsect of people who are like, man, the magic, it's a very vague topic.

And I can understand the frustrations of a vague topic. But like, when we go into these things where there is a real, a meeting of a foundation to understand what these people are doing, even if you don't believe in it. They're still doing it. So you need to know, you need to ed, like you need to not have at least a banal.

I'm not saying we're like an edge, we're a comedy podcast first, but like, we can't talk about the Nazis and the occult without first being like, here's what chaos magic is. This shit is like the edge. Yeah, this shit is like the edge of like,

like themes and like reality. Like, like the, the interaction of like concepts with outcomes, like is here in this time. of stuff happening in the world. It's fucking crazy. Over and over and over again in different ways, but loop. So back to the episode, in Berlin, right around the same time, Thule is getting going in Munich.

And a circle forms around exactly kind of that idea that they, with the idea of Vrille. They are usually called the Vrille Society or the Vrille Gessel Schaft. And depending on where you read it, they also went by the Society for Truth. And what made this group different from every other occult outfit in Germany at this time is that the inner circle was women. That is very out of the ordinary for around this time. Specifically, they were Dooms, Dr. Doom's witches. Specific. As featured in Comic-Con.

Exactly. Specifically, it was a group of young women who worked as mediums and the one at the center of it, the one whose name you may have actually heard, even if you did. did not know where you heard it was Maria Orsick. Orsick was from Vienna with family from Zagreb. Zagreb, Zagreb. Zagreb. Zagreb.

Zagreb. And the thing everybody notices first, honestly, about her is her hair. She and the other women in the circle wore their hair extremely long, way down past the waist. And the reason given for it was magical. They believed hair worked as an antenna. Like a Samson situation? Yeah, like the reason mediums throughout history

had been able to receive messages was partly physical. And that's why I was like this. Yeah, that's why I look like this too. Exactly. Long hair. Dude, I would be so together if I didn't have to conduct all these signals. That's why Jesse's the skeptic, dude. The last time I guess is guys, I don't let you know something.

Clean shape. It's just like a baby's butt, my whole body. Just like Frank. Yeah, you know what? Definitely not a hair or bad. Not me. Yeah. No way.

So they were saying basically the reason mediums throughout history had been able to receive messages was their hair. And that cutting your hair short, which was very much the style in Berlin in the 1920s, was cutting out your own reception. It was a style at the time. It was the style at the time. I mean, you've seen those fuckers. Yeah, exactly. And what they were receiving according to the story was not messages from the dead. in 1919, the circle started getting transmissions, and the transmissions were coming from

Aldabaran, which is a real star, an orange giant, about 65 light years out in the constellation Taurus. I thought the Empire took care of that thing, though. No, no, he's back. How dare you? How dare you? The story that came through was that there is an inhabited system out at, Aldabaran. A very long time ago, some of those people came here and they landed in Mesopotamia,

and they are the reason the Sumerians appear in the historical record already knowing how to do things nobody had taught them. And the word Vril itself in this version is not Bolwer Lytton's invention. It is Sumerian from Vrille. Oh, okay. So according to the Vril Circle, they had not made contact with aliens. They had gotten basically a phone call from distant family members because they all belong to the bloodline. Their blood light is pure. It leads back to the Vril.

It leads back to the people of the ancient civilization. That's where they all come from. The transmissions came through in a script that nobody could read, which took a serious amount of work to decode. And once it was decoded, what was sitting in there was apparently engineering. propulsion, field generation, structural specifications, all of them detailed enough for people to build from. I bet you you have an idea where that's going to lead to. So now you've got two societies in two cities and depending on who is telling it, they either merge or they start working in parallel.

So you tell me Bill Tompkins was right? He might have been right. Thule has the politics and the money and the newspaper, while Vril has mediums and transmissions and the weird engineering from whatever they were receiving from Alder to Baran or whatever. So like, now these two societies are working together,

but they are like the yin and the yang, the woo and the logical political. And in 1922, supposedly, they built the first thing. Now, I'm going to leave the machines for just a minute. Is this like Glocking,

gawken. whatever. Like Glock and Glock. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. We're going to leave the machine for a brief moment. I don't want to, like, lose you here. But I have to tell you about Vienna for more context, because there is just context throughout all of this episode.

About a very specific object and about the years before any of this shit meant anything to anybody. Are you fucking time slicing me right now? I would never use that terminology. I would never ever use that terminology. You're fucking time slicing you right now, aren't you? I would call it time edging. You're fucking time edging me right now. Time edging you.

I'm edging you. So at this point, Adolf Hitler is in Vienna starting around 1907. He is a failed art student, broke as fuck, living at men's hostels. And he is doing what broke young men do in a city, which is spent an enormous amount of time in museums because they are warm and they are free. If only. Or close to it. If only, that's what we were doing.

Well, back then. That's kind of what you were doing. Yeah. We're playing Fortnite. on PS3. Yeah. Yeah. And in the Hofberg Palace in the Imperial Treasury, there is a spear. It is called the Holy Lance and it has been part of the regalia of the Holy Roman Empire for something like a thousand years. The claim on it is this is supposed to be the lance that a Roman soldier named Longginus. Longinus. Is it not supposed to be Longinus? Oh, my saying is like my

compilation problem for i don't know i'm just asking because i've heard it said different ways so i'm just very let's go with longinus let's just stick our vaginas let's just stick saying fagita you love chicken let's stick with long let's stick with longinus fuck dude i don't now i'm making it all weird because no lots of people tune in for don't you worry oh no i got to fix how i say it shit no let's just stick with it should we just go with it long Gynus. You think people tuned out when the first time I said long gynes? You know what?

I don't think that's what we cause them to tune out. So, this is supposed to be the lance that the Roman soldier named Long Jainus drove into the side of Christ at the crucifixion. Just sounds like saying Long Jainess. It's not, it's not a good thing. It sounds weird. Long Jinas. The dude has a long ginais. The dude, a girl in my school had a long gynus, dude.

Jesus It's not great Fuck I gotta be able to read my fucking script I wrote Stupid stupid jokes It's dumb but it's I'm mad

Because like fuck All right So they drove the spear Into the side of Christ Of the crucifixion And set into the blade There is an iron pin That is supposed to be

One of the nails from the cross Charlemagne is supposed to supposed to have carried it. Otto the Great is supposed to have carried it into battle at Lechfeld in 955. And Shinji was supposed to have carried it. He was supposed to carry it. Yeah. But this guy's supposed to where he broke the Magyars and effectively founded the empire that ran for the next 900 years. And the belief that went with it for a thousand years of European monarchy was pretty simple and specific that whoever holds the spear hold the destiny of the world lose it and you lose everything.

The way this part of the story comes to us is through a man named Dr. Walter Johannes Stein. He was Vietnamese born 1891, and he was a serious student of the occult, specifically a follower of Rudolph Steiner and the Anthroposophy movement. He said he was Vietnamese? Yeah. He's from Vietnam. Yeah. Oh, my God. No, no.

I mean Venetian? from viennese i my brain immediately i was like i'm like i'm like i was like he's from he's like from vian i was like what's his name he's vietnamese that my brain just did not clock that at all as i read through that that that's i'm fucked up over here you got me long giant and i'm like i'm having a hard time is a good script i like that but i like this episode so far so this guy dr walton johan stein was vian born in 1891, student of the occult, specifically a follower of Rudolf Steiner and the Anthroposophy movement. And the story is that sometime around 1911 or 1912, we don't know exactly when, Stein was in a secondhand

bookshop in Vienna and picked up a copy of Parsival, the medieval grail epic by Wolfram von Eschenbach. And this copy had been annotated. Somebody had gone through it in the margins and the annotations were. like occult insight. They were, and they were good occult insight, according to this guy.

Kind of like, I have like annotations in my chaos magic book. It's like the best, like finding used magic books at a second ad bookstore that have like notes in it. Awesome. Whoever wrote them though

understood the material at a level, at a level Stein did not expect from a used book. So Stein did what many of us, at least I would do. He went back to the bookseller and asked to it and the name he got was, Adolf Hitler. Bingo,

correct. Adolf Hitler. according to Stein, he tracked the man down, and they knew each other for a stretch of time in pre-war Vienna. And what he described of... Are you saying it that way because this is probably not a true story? Yes. We are now in myth and like we're not, we don't have the paperwork like we did in the first third of this episode or so. So in this version of the story, Hitler is like a blessed star child who's been training his whole life to be a wizard.

Correct. Okay, got it. Yes. And what, so like what, what? This guy described when he met Hitler was somebody in the middle of a serious and deliberate training. Like he was being, he was initiated. This guy was very serious and like good at magic. He said he was hot too.

He was super hot. I think he said he had an eight pack, which was very rare. He said his skin like sparkled like diamonds. It's crazy. Yeah. Basically he's trying to describe that Hitler was just, he was not some dude dabbling in magic. This dude was a hard worker of magic.

Years of study in Vienna and later in Munich, a systematic run of the Western esoteric tradition. And according to Stein, the use of mescaline to force open states of consciousness that would not open on his own. So Hitler is also like fear and loathing in Vienna. Like he's just like fucking. Nah! I'm opening. He's opening his third eye, dude.

He's opening his consciousness. I can't. That must be a nightmare just to tangentially to be on a psychedelic and out in like a public space. I thought you were going to say that must be chibby to be Hitler. Also, oh, dude. Imagine me on asking to be like, I can't believe I'm Hitler. Oh, what the fuck. That's the worst.

That was a quantum leap ever. Oh, boy. Like, tangentially, that's like when I had, like, the last time I did anything psychedelic and, like, fucking ego died. When I came back, the thought I had openly is like, I don't know how anybody does psychedelics and comes back and be's a bad person. Like, it doesn't make any sense to me. I don't know how if this, if Hitler was truly doing psychedelics and doing magic, I don't know how you come back and be Hitler after that. Like, I don't understand, but that's just my own

personal notation. So the end of that program was initiation. And in the actual technical sense of the word and the thing Hitler came out of it believing was that the lance in that case in that case in Hoffberg was the physical key to world power. And that at that moment, he decided that that lance was going to be his one way or another. Now, we can go back to more present time. and in March of 1938, Germany annexed Austria. And within a very short window, the Nazis went into the Hofberg and took the imperial regalia, crown sword, orb, and obviously the lance. And they moved all of it to Nuremberg, which was the ceremonial heart of the whole regime,

the city of the rallies. Thirty years after a broke art student stood in front of that case, supposedly according to the story, that fucker came back in charge of a country and stole that shit. And then there's the ending, which is the part of this that has kept the story alive, I think. Nuremberg fell to American forces at the end of April 1945. This is the part of the story we've talked about on the show as well. The regalia had been moved into a vault under the city, and on the 30th of April, an American lieutenant took official possession of the holy lands on behalf of the United States government.

Adolf Hitler died that same day. And the version of the story that gets told says the gap that like, the gap between the lance being taken and in his death was approximately 80 minutes. Is like that was it. America took the lance 80 minutes later. Hitler was dead. Green Lantern, the Flash, Wildcat, Hourman, Sandman. A thousand years of same belief now belongs of that power now belongs into American hands.

And now the reason we know any of this, the entire chain, the whole story as it has just been told, is that Walter Stein eventually told it to somebody. So we'll get back. Now we're going to go quickly back to the engineering and the machines I left you all off at because we left that circle of witches and mediums in Berlin sitting on specifications. You fucking fucking fucking me up because now I'm thinking of those stupid ass fucking metal mask outfit gowns. You don't think I was thinking about that when I was writing this. That's so dumb. One's green, one's purple, one's red, one's orange. They all have fiend.

One's Wanda. Oh my God. One's going to be Agatha. I can't away. So this machine they built according to the specifications is that, and they did build this thing, apparently, is that the first one in 1922 was what they considered a test rig. And whatever this thing was, never really flew. It was a proof of concept for the drive.

From there, the story splits into two timelines. essentially that run alongside each other. There is the Vrille series, which were the smaller ones. Basically, they started building smaller single-seater two-person craft that were shaped in the shape of

flying saucers. Exactly correct. In the shape of discs. And then there is the Honeyboo series in the Honey-Boo series. The Honey-Boo-Boo series. You want to know something fucked up real quick. Real quick sidebar. We have to stop

because you invoked it, and so now you must get this psychic damage, okay? Are you about to show me the Honey Boo Boo Dancing on a Pole thing? No, I'm just going to tell you that Honey Boo Boo is 20, and I'm going to leave it there. You know what? I hope. I hope she's doing well.

Yeah. She's doing super great. I hope you're doing well, dear. Honey Boo Boo, we love you on Chulaminaw podcast. Sorry we brought you up on the Nazi one. Yeah, that's unfortunate. It's a similar name. Yeah.

So the second series of crafts are the ones, that you were, you've probably seen pictures of. Honebu, the first flight around 1939. Honeb is that? What language is that? Yeah, that doesn't sound like a language. It sounds so Japanese to me. Honebu. Honebu.

Look, Google it. It's the, it's literally the name of the original myth that would be given to the saucers. Crazy. Honeybibu. Honeybou. Honeybou is a myth. What else is it? It's not a real word.

It's a mythical word. The fake word. Haunibu. This flying saucer was 25 meters across and could fit a crew of eight. Then Haunabud 2 is bigger and it is the one that supposedly went into limited production with 26 meters, a crew of nine, and the claim is that it was flying operationally by 1943 and 1944. Does Honeyboo qualify as a foo fighter?

It would. I think it would. I think it would qualify as a foo. food fighter, yeah. Okay. Then Haunabu, the, Honeybu,

Honeyboo Boo, Honey Boo Boo, which is enormous. It's 71 meters across, could fit a crew of 30, and is described as being able to stay in the air for weeks before having to come down a touchdown. Well,

didn't the Germans actually have like some kind of flying, well, that's what next episode's for. The actual reality of there, because that's the thing is like, once you hear, like, the story is fantastic.

But it doesn't mean they weren't fucking around with shit, like, because they were. So this one, and then the last one, above all the others, there is the Andromeda Garat or the Indromeda or the Indromeda device, which is a hundred and thirty-nine meters long and is not an aircraft at all, but an aircraft carrier of a sort. It carries the smaller disks inside it like a mothership. Like Independence is like. Like a Pez. Yes. It's exactly independence. Independent.

Independence Day. Indepesden's Day. And Depezzan's Day. Exactly. Welcome to Earth, bitch. This is what the non-the-head opens and a little guy comes out. This is what the Doomwich is. We're taking in.

This is what the Doom Witches were trans-like, we're getting us transmissions from the aliens and from another star system. This was the blueprints they got fed into their premium brain. This is why they had the hair. Yeah. This is what the hair was allowing them to get. The propulsion is where the virile transmissions supposedly really came in because none of this is running on anything fucking conventional.

The drive that gets described is a rotating electromagnetic field system, a thule tachionic... Tachioometer. Tachianator. Tachianator. Spinning mercury or a mercury compound at very high speed to generate a field that cancels out the craft's weight, which is why the descriptions always emphasize the same handfuls of things. Like they are silent.

They accelerate in ways that should turn the crew into paste and do not. They change direction without banking. Like this explains the some of these observables. All the stuff that we talk about. Yeah. Yeah. And there's also a second engineering line in here too, which comes from an Austrian named Victor Schauberger, who is a real inventor with real patents working on what he called

implosion, the idea that nature moves by drawing inward. rather than pushing outward, Shawberger built a thing called the repulse sign, and the story is that the SS took him and his work in during the war and put him to it, like put him to work for the Nazis. And there are blueprints for all of this, like detailed blueprints, cutaway drawings with German labels, dimensions, crew positions,

armament, top speed. Like, we're going to, and we're going to come back to those blueprints later, I promise. Now, obviously the question it then becomes, like, and it's the only one is like, If Germany had a working fleet of anti-gravity aircraft by 1943, then why did they lose the fucking war? If they had this technology, nothing should be able to stop them.

We literally talk about that today with UAPs, that if some country unlocked the ability to move at infinite speed across the planet and be anywhere instantly untrackable, you win. You win the world. Hellboy. Exactly. One word, Captain America. But the, and the, and the,

The answer the story gives is not that the machines didn't work, though. The way they kind of work around this is the answer it gives is that the machines were never actually the point. Actually, let's just move the goalpost, the machines. They weren't really the point. They weren't actually meant to win a war in Europe. And there's a version where the more esoteric people in that program consider the war itself to be a distraction from what they were actually building towards. the discs were an evacuation program. They weren't for war.

They were how a certain group of people were going to fucking leave this place. And that is how we end up. A certain group of people. Dr. Doom Witch is in group. This is basically the plot of Captain America, the first Avenger that you're saying right now. Like pretty much. Inspiration gets pulled from places, you know? So that's how we end up at the bottom of the world.

In 1938, Germany sent an expedition. to Antarctica. And like this is not actually like this is again, as I mentioned before, we talked about in the show. This is actually not something in dispute. Like a ship called the Schwabinland, which had been converted so it could catapult aircraft off the deck.

I'd say, that's the name of it. I'm telling you, it's Schwabinland. I know, but like technically like, me saying enchilada is right too in a way. How do you say that with a German accent, Alex?

I have no idea. I don't have a German accent. I wish I did. But it's a ship. Schwappenland van. Yeah, it's a ship. In my mind, the way you said it, you know, I only like swab the deck. I just imagine there's so much swabbing going on.

They call it swabin land. They're just swabbing it up over there. That's swabbing land over there. You got a sign to Schwabinland. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry.

I'm sorry. I might work at swobbing lands. It's rough. Swabbing it up. So this ship had been converted so it could catapole aircraft off the deck. It left Hamburg in the middle of December and went south, and it carried two dornier flying boats and a full complement of scientists and officers under a captain named Alfred Richter.

And what they did down there was survey. They flew over roughly 600,000 square kilometers of coastline. They took something like 11,000 aerial photographs, and they dropped, over a thousand metal darts stamped with swastikas across the territory to mark it as what else claimed by the Nazis. They're just like dropping dibs markers

across Antarctica. Just be like, you know, Schwab and the land. Schwab and the swapping the land. And they named the whole new region. Shwash in the land. What do you think they named the new region? New Germany. Schwab and land. New Swappenland.

Are you fucking kidding me? No. They named a new swobby. New Schwabin Land. We literally like compromised on the name. Yep. I know. I know. That and that is all documented.

This is at the mountains of madness is what's about to happen right now. That's all documented shit. But the question, it's still like, so as we keep going, what the aerial survey found, the story was, was ice caves with geothermal activity, warm water lakes under the sheet, space that was. already there and did not have to be dug out. And over the next several years, under cover of a world war that had everybody's attention pointed somewhere else, material and personnel went south. The name that gets used for it is Base 211. I don't know if you've heard, have you heard of base 211 before? Okay. This is all part. This, I want to be clear that this next part, this part is real and documented and you can look it up tonight. And you can look at as the submarines.

The war in Europe ended on the 8th of May, 1945. on the 10th of July, two months later, a German U-boat, U530, surrendered at Mar del Plata in Argentina, and then in the middle of August, three and a half months after the surrender, a second one, U-977, did the same thing at the same port. Both crews said they had been at sea and had taken a long route. Argentina and then the United States questioned them at length, and the questions they got asked on the record were about whether they had transported anybody and where had they had been.

And the reason those questions got asked is that in the summer of 1945, the allies genuinely did not know for certain where every senior Nazi had ended up because spoilers, there were a lot of them. They were a lot of them. And a lot of them scattered as the war was coming to a close. What the story says those boats were doing in the last run is that a year and a half later, this story goes, a year and a half later, the United States Navy went to Antarctica. in force.

It was called Operation High Jump. It ran through the summer of 1946 into 1947. And the scale of it is the thing. Like Task Force 68, roughly 4,700 men, 13 shifts, an aircraft carrier, the Philippine sea, a submarine, ice breakers, dozens of aircraft, and at the head of all of it, Admiral Richard E. Bird, the most famous polar explorer. in America. The stated purpose was training and research. And the story's question is like, well, was that really what they were doing up there? What they said is it was planned to run six to

eight months, but they came home in under two months. Men died out there. Aircraft were lost out there. The task force pulled out early and went home. And Bird gave an interview to a Chilean newspaper afterward in which he talked about the threat posed by aircraft, capable of flying from pole to pole at tremendous speed. And the reading that gets put on all of this is that high jump was an assault. A failed one. And the United States found out the hard way what was down there and quietly never went back that way ever again.

Which kind of brings us to the last piece and the biggest one. The man who put it together in its final form was a Chilean named Miguel Serrano. And Serrano is not somebody, I don't think you can kind of just wave off as like a crazy crank because this dude is a career diplomat. He was Chile's ambassador to India, Yugoslavia and Austria. He corresponded with Carl Jung. He was friends with Herman Hess and wrote a book about both of them that people can still read to this day. And what Serrano wrote across decades and most completely wrote in a 1978 book called El Cordon Dorado,

the golden thread is that Hitler did not die in that bunker on the 30th of April. In Serrano's account, he went south, that he is in the base under New Schwabinland. He is not like, he's while he's there, he's not there just to hide, that he's actually also in New Schwabinland in communion with what Serrano calls the hyperborean gods. the same lost I should have known from the ultimate Thule that the fucking hyperboreans were going to be here soon enough

they were on the way dude the moment I said it you definitely should have in your comic book brain that should have clas should have known this is the same lost northern civilization the Thule Society was founded on 80 years ago at the top of this goddamn episode and at

a time that has already been decided that he leads a fleet out of the ice like the belief is he went out there in those submarines and that's what those submarines were actually doing. And in that, that is all of it start to finish from the lodge in Munich to 1818 to a fleet underwater in the ice waiting for a date is the story I think most people know about all of this. And then they pick it up in X-Men first class when Magneto shows up and takes him out in Argentina. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly the same. So now the best part, the last of the episode, I have to do what is responsible of me before we go to part two next week.

I have to take this shit apart for you so you know where all this shit comes from so that next week we understand the actual base of everything. I'm going to go do this in a very specific order. I'm not going to start at the beginning. I'm actually going to start with the newest piece and work backwards. You're slicing it up, bro. No, no, no. I'm on a time river. You know, I'm on a time.

river right now. We're going to start with Maria Orsick, a name we brought up briefly, the woman with the hair that is a transmission, one of the mediums, Aldebaran, all that stuff. Yeah. The reason I'm starting here. The reason I'm, exactly, the reason I'm starting here is because there is no record that Maria Orsick ever even fucking existed at all. There is no document, no paperwork, no archive file. There's no diary entry or photograph or passport, no interrogation, nothing from the German side, nothing from any other side of the war. This woman who is supposed to have been the most famous occultist of the Third Reich who brought in the transmissions from the aliens, who got Hitler out of there in the submarine so he could go meet with hyperborean gods where he likely

either still is or died. This woman almost certainly wasn't real. She's from like Charlie Chan or some shit. Tell me. Well, the most famous female occultists of the Third Reich does have a paper trail, though. And that paper trail doesn't begin in 1948. It doesn't even begin in 1918. It begins in 1992. What?

1999. And I'm going to spoil it. She's not a hundred-something-year-old witch. She's maybe 34 years old. Tell me. Oh, my God. This is, this is a, every. Every time I do something like this, whatever it is, blue beam, whatever, when you get to the core of it, it's always so much stupider.

I was alive. I wish. I was alive. You were alive. I was alive. All three of us were alive when this version of the cult story, like, took home. And people believe it. People, crazy Nazis still believe this shit.

They don't do. Anyway, she's, she first appears in a 400 page book. called Das Vril Project, written by two Austerians named Rolf Edel and Norbert Jürgen Radhofer, both of whom were members of a Vienna outfit called the Temperhofgeshauschaft, which was a Gnostic organization founded by neo-Nazis that claimed to be descended from the Knights Templar. That book is the first time Orsick Aldebaran, the Doom Witches, the discs, any of the stuff that Nazis supposedly at UFOs, comes from this book in 1992. Before this book, none of that existed.

So you're telling me the Nazi, like, trope that we know from comic books isn't even from the actual pulp era. It's from the like second wave pulp era of the late 80s, early 90s. Like Rocketeer. like rocketeer era but the reason indiana jones messes with nazis and occult stuff is because they did fuck with the cult stuff which again we'll get to but all this UFO real like the idea of the nazis in indiana jones probably had more to do with this than actual history yep they probably watched indian jones and jones oh my god that's the yeah like it's the same

The photographs of Maria Orsick that people have seen that get posted with her name under them are film stills. You know, with all that luxurious hair, somebody in a period costume on a set in Austria in 1992. Like, that's when those pictures come from. I'm sorry, two years later, 1990. Her name is in the book, photos of her arrive in 1994. They're pictures of a woman that they're. Two years later, they put in period set costume on a set in Austria and took pictures of her in 1994. She looks like a picture from Metal Gear Solid.

She looks like a- Yes. The evidence that she existed is a fucking woman pretending. Taking 49 years after the war fucking ended. And remember I told you, like, the unknown script from Aldebaran that took so much work to crack that I told you about earlier. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When people went and actually looked at those texts, they're not impossible to crack.

They're in German. The encryption is a simple substitution cipher. The kind of like, hey, if you see an A, it's actually a B. It's like the type of when they want to give you like a fake language that you can read in fiction. When you pass notes to your friend in class, that kind of shit. A civilization, 65 light years out transmitted to Earth and was just using cipher, substitution cipher decodering shit to like the shit the blueprints are the same story same circle same window all the same people there is no german archive that they come from there's no capture record

not even an operation paper clip where you would have thought the americans would have been like all right well we need to maybe these guys are something no they don't exist there's no drawing entered into evidence at nuremberg trials there's no interrogations everywhere those blueprints have been also been getting better over time. The versions going around now are actually cleaner, more detailed, and more internally consistent than the first versions that dropped 30-some-odd years ago because enthusiasts keep improving on them. And much like enthusiasts do, don't clarify that their work is like an improved version

and just try to pass it off as the original. So neo-Nazi occultists are Indiana Jones fan fiction? It's what it seems like, yeah. Yes. Dude, this is weaker than the Zodiac killer, dude. This is crazy, man. That's insane now, Serrano. Let's go back to Serrano.

In 1978, and everything I told you about him is true. He really was an ambassador and he really did know Young and Hess. He was also, until the day he died in 2009, an entirely unrepentant Nazi who spent 50 years building what he openly called esoteric Hitlerism. he took esoteric Hitlerism is like what destroyed

the internet dude Nazis are such dorks and that's coming from me man like Nazis are so so fucking dwebes he took it from a French Greek writer named Savitri Devi

who had spent decades arguing Hitler was actually an avatar of the Hindu god Vishnu and he built it out into a full system like a whole magical system

Serrano was not like like he was not trying to convince historian and I don't I do not think he could have been insulted by me saying that in any way what he was writing with scripture he was essentially like that is like he's taking something that already exists and like writing it down as though it's new like it's very scripture like passed down kind of like knowledge like if you go back seven more years and you get Wilhelm Landig who was Austrian and who was a former SS officer and who after the war sat at the middle of a circle of ex-Nazis in Vienna trying to work out what their ideology was supposed to be now that it had lost.

In 1971, Landig published Gotson and Gaggen, Göttson Gagin Thule, idols against Thule, and he called it a novel openly. He marketed it as fiction, and his secret base is not even in Antarctica on this one. It is in the Canadian Arctic at a place he calls 0.103. somebody else actually took that and moved to the South Pole later. So the whole thing of Hitler even being in the South Pole traces back to like an ex-Nazi SS officer from 1971 that they then re-adapted in the 1990 novel to be like, actually, it's not in Canadian Arctic, it's an Antarctica.

You see, like, you keep, it's all so unbelievable stupid. It just worked better for the plot. Yeah, exactly. It worked better for their plot. And Landig gave us one more thing, which was. stolen, which is the most durable, I think, out of all this. He invented the Black Sun, the Dark Sun, which was the hidden energy that renews the Aryan race and is the symbol to carry what the swastika could no longer carry in public. Like, the Dark Sun was supposed to be the new replacement symbol

for the Nazis and like all of it's what it represents. There is a Sunwheel mosaic on the floor of the Valdesburg Castle, and it is real, and it does date back to the SS. period. But the identification of that floor as the Black Sun with all of Landdigs meaning welded onto it comes decades after the war out of that Vienna scene. The name got retrofitted

to it onto a floor tile. That wasn't the Black Sun initially. They just grabbed something and said, see, it's always been there. Even when it wasn't supposed to represent that at all. That is so embarrassing, dudes. Just look out for each other.

Holy shit. Stop being. Pussies. Just look out for each other. Just be nice. Shut up. This brings me to Ernest Zundel. Zundel was a German born. Was German born. He moved to Canada and he became one of the most prominent Holocaust deniers on this planet.

In the 1970s, he set up a publishing operation called Samistat. And when he set it up, he just led with flying saucers. He didn't even pretend. Like, the dude immediately said the shit up and he just led with flying saucers. He put out a run of Nazi UFO books under pen names, Antarctic faces, secret weapons, the whole fucking kitten caboodle, aimed directly at the UFO audience.

And here is again, where I think a lot of the reason UFO and conspiracy theories, you can see where all this always keeps coming back to racism. It's because they all did it on purpose. Like all these people did it on purpose. And in the 70s was as big and as mainstream as I had ever gotten up until I'd say modern day. He sold seats on an ex-based.

addition to find the polar entrance to the hollow earth at $9,99 a piece in the 70s. People who interviewed him have said he admitted privately that the saucer material was a hoax he was running to build publicity and a mailing list. And he was still, but he was still publicly. Yes, Jesse? Nothing, nothing. I just, every time we do anything on the show, and you guys are like,

but why would someone do this thing? It doesn't make any, I always am just like, people suck, you know? And this is a, like, it's just like assholes every time. Yeah,

I figured I would just do this to get some publicity and like, go to hell. What is the same tactic as stapling the sports onto their propaganda thing. You're aiming at audiences. Same vibe.

Yes. Oh, it's gross. However, he was still publicly defending the Antarctic base in 2002. For him, though, the saucers were basically, like you said, the front door to all this, somebody picks up

the thing or comes into a meeting because of cool secret aircraft, they order a book, whatever. Now they're on a list. And the next catalog that shows up in their mail has something else in it. And like, we all know there was no reason to guess the motive here. It was all Nazi propaganda. Now we go to the spear. The man who told the Walter Stein story was named Trevor Ravenscroft. And he published it in 1917.

in a book called The Spear of Destiny. And Ravenscroft says right up front in chapter one that Stein told him all of it personally. He describes their first meeting and he talks about the friendship that he developed over years. Walter Johannestine died in 1957. The book came out in 1972. So he's also just secretly alive? He was quietly alive. Yeah.

So when he got pressed on it, Ravenscroft admitted he had never met Walter Stein, not ever once. He revised his explanation, or rather his revised explanation, was that he had made contact with Stein's spirit through a medium. And that's how we got the truth. When a reporter went digging into it in the early 80s, the connection came apart almost instantaneously. And there is no good evidence Ravenscroft ever met the man who's, who's, whose testimony, his entire bestselling history is built on top of. And it gets so much better because in 1979, Trevor Ravenscroft sued a horror novelist.

James Herbert had published a thriller called The Spear, and Ravenscroft took him to court for copyright infringement. He is claiming his book is, do you, do you remember the Warrens? Yeah, I remember those. Do you remember the very end where they had to go to court and had to reveal that, like, like, Like, if he's, if he's saying it's historical, then nothing could stop the people from writing about books about it. But if he's going to go in and defend copyright, then he has to admit that it is a story

that he made up. That's his. Right. Like the same goddamn thing is happening in this moment. He is claiming his book is history, actual events and simultaneously suing somebody for copying it, which is a thing you can only do if your work is an original creative work. He's doing both things. and the account that has come down from that case, and I want to, I got to be careful and call it a reported account, is that Ravenscroft explained that he and Herbert had met before in a previous life as the two thieves crucified next to Christ.

Stop this nonsense. Why them? Why? Why? Because it has to connect them to the lance of Longhinis? He said that, well, the person suing him, he said that he had been, that he had been on the right hand while Herbert, the person. person suing him had been on the other side. The reason that he's going after him is because they were the thieves. One went to heaven and one didn't. And they're after each other. Yes, it's all fake. It's all fake. No, I mean it's fate.

Yeah. Oh, fake. Also that. Sorry. It's all fate. Yeah. And now we go to Dietrich Eckert on his deathbed telling the room that he had called the tune, like I said he said earlier, called the tune and opened Hitler up and basically like gave him his psychic powers. You know,

that comes from the same fucking book from ravenscroft 1972 i can even give you the exact page page 91 of his book that's fucking crazy dude there is so embarrassing there's just literally fiction from one dude's head yep there's no source for it obviously there's no witness account obviously no letter no diary nothing i can go down the list but there's fucking nothing from anybody who is in that room in December of 1923 when he died. It cannot be documented from Eckert or from anybody who knew him. But it shows up in Ravenscroft and then it gets quoted by everybody who came after in books, sermons, documentaries about four billion forum posts online and every single one of those

citations traces back to this dude. The dude who admitted that he never even met Walter Stein, where he got. all the story from like all of it two of the biggest moments in this entire first half it's just they just decided a book was real yes so that's the next point you know the 80 minutes between grabbing the lance and hitler dying yeah so ravencroft's book just from the book yeah he put that number into the world from his own mind uh he been like he put that number in there and the spirit itself has been metallurgically dated and the main body of it comes out somewhere around the seventh or eighth century, which is a very long time ago and also about 700 years too late

to have been a crucifiction. It's not a magic fucking spear. It was just a fucking old spear in like being kept in a vault. Antarctica, New Swappenland, the base, the expedition is real. And everything I told you about it, that is real. And the reason for it is written down in the German government's own paper. It was ordered through Gordinings four-year plan office, and the planning went to a state counselor named Helmuth Walthat, and that purpose of it. Basically, that's where we get all the purpose of it. But the real reason in the paperwork wasn't to hunt mystical artifacts.

It was for whale oil. Like, they sent all the ships out there for whale oil. In the 30s, whale oil was the primary raw material for margarine and for soap. That's how Norway, like, preserve their economy when they, like, became independent from Sweden, the 60s, too. That's, like, a valuable resource, but definitely not, uh, the caves from HP Lovecraft. Yeah. My next point. My next point is that the whole thing is Germany was importing something like 200,000 tons of it a year, most of it from Norway.

There you go. That was a strategic dependency. And it was eating their foreign currency reserves with a. war coming. So they were out there. The plan was to find a structure of Antarctica coast. Nobody had formerly claimed, survey it, claim it, and put a German whaling station on it. So yes, there were boats out there and yes, they were claiming land in the Nazi

name, but for a war reason that made more logical sense than fucking magical undersea ice bases. They were basically, the Nazi Antarctic base was a margarine procuring operation. If you really boil it down, margarine and soap. And it didn't even fucking work. anyway because Norway claimed Queen Maud land by royal proclamation on the 14th of January 1939 while the Germans were still on the boat and had not reached the coast yet. Two follow-up expeditions were planned and the war canceled both.

Nobody stayed. There wasn't anything that got built. The total German presence in Antarctica is one converted freighter, two sea planes, about 80 dudes, three weeks of aerial photography and a bag of darts that they used to claim shit. And on one flight, they got low on fuel and had to throw gear out to light in the plane. And part of what went into the ocean was a box of swastika darts. Captain Richard, who ran the whole thing, was married to a Jewish artist and picked his crew on polar experience instead of party membership, which meant there was exactly one party

official aboard whose main contribution to the expedition was just making everybody sit in a room and listen to Hitler's Christmas speeches on the radio. This was literally not. not even really a Nazi endeavor by like the end of it. Do you guys want to get out of here? Let's just go to Antarctica. Like we don't. Yeah.

Let's just go fucking look around in Antarctica. Yeah, exactly. For a while. Yeah. Project high jump was real too. The scale was real. Bird was real. All the deaths.

And it did end early. Like I said, it ended early because the conditions were worse than they planned for because you're going to Antarctica in the 40s. The ice was worse than they planned for. A plane did go down. and it ended up killing three men and equipment kept failing while they were out there. They got what they came for and then just went home.

And there's record of them going home and everything. Yes, we know that that's it. That's basically all that happened. It was a cold weather training exercise for the U.S. boat and a mapping run at a moment when the Navy was starting to think hard about fighting the Soviet Union across the top of the world. So they obviously started prepping for cold conditions because fighting the Soviet Union would mean fighting cold places all the damn time. It's so embarrassing.

Exactly. And the bird quote about aircraft flying pole to pole at tremendous speeds as a naval officer. It did happen. But it's just a naval officer in 1947 talking about Soviet long range bombers coming over the Arctic, which is what every single person in the American defense establishment was terrified of that year and which turned out to be exactly correct. Nobody had to lie about Hyde Project High Jump. All you have to do is what I try to do in these episodes,

which is find the true facts and put them next to each other and then delete the fake reasons that are added by a book in the 1970s or whatever. Like, unfortunately, the audience will, you know, tends to fill holes themselves, not our audience, but an audience of like people taking in this stuff. And people will always, always, always fill it with something so much more interesting than just bad weather made people turn around. And the U-boats that showed up in Argentina months late were also real. but the reason is that both crews had been at sea when the war ended.

Both boats had orders that no longer meant anything, and neither captain wanted to hand his crew to the British. Both were investigated at the time at length by people highly motivated to find something, and guess what, they found nothing. It is the most simple explanation for why U-Boats would show up months later, because they're on a fucking U-boat in the middle of the ocean, and they're not like submarines now. They're a lot more dangerous, a lot slower, like it takes time.

They shouldn't have those. fucked up. Those were so scary. They were so dangerous. You're fucking scary. Every movie that I see, I'm like, fuck all of that shit. It's like the scariest shit I've ever seen. Now we're almost done here. We're at the end of the episode here. There's a couple more things to cover.

One is the Morning of the Magicians from 1960. Two French men. I know. Two French men. Lewis Powell's and Jacques Bergeier. And this is a book, The Morning of Magicians, is the book where most of what you have heard tonight kind of enters the world in the form that you know it.

Basically, it is a huge sprawling book about hidden knowledge generally. Alchemy and lost civilizations and, you know, suppressed science and a long central section of it is about the Nazis as a magical enterprise, essentially. And it sold in the millions and spun off a magazine and was a legitimate intellectual event in France for most of a decade. What is it? It's like a Fordian record. Like I said, it's a collection.

Like the Morning of Magicians is like a book of just like, here's some interesting hidden knowledge about alchemy. Like a reader's digest about. Yeah, kind of like, it was like interesting knowledge. And then the Nazi magic stuff gets shoved in there with that esoteric knowledge. I don't think they did it on purpose.

I just think at this point, it already kind of maybe gotten out there a little bit. It spun off a magazine, like I said, and was a legitimate intellectual event in France for most of a decade. eight years after it came out, chariots of the gods landed in an audience it had basically already built.

And what Pavels and Berger did, Bergeier did, was not, like, they didn't really lie, which is why it worked. They just took speculation, and they wrote it in the grammar of fact. The grammar of fact.

What the fuck does that mean? Just lie, just pretend? Yeah, they just fucking lie. The grammar of facts. Alternative facts. Alternative facts. The grammar of Brother speech.

No, that's what we call magical speech. My bad. My bad. That's what this is. I'm trying to do. Insert some magic. You change perspective by using a word

unexpectedly and it changes how you believe it. The grammar of fact is fucking hilarious. They just fucking lied. They lies in the grammar of fact. In the grammar of that's a good, you know, politicians take note. Basically they took all these things

that they had like heard may have been something that was going on with the Nazis. put them in the book of the morning of the magicians and published it without really saying anything about you know if it was fake or not. Just declarative sentences slammed in there. Which takes us to the bottom of the whole thing and the bottom of this of this is like one paragraph

in a pulp magazine. In 1947, a man named Willie Lay published an article called pseudoscience in Nazi land in astounding science fiction. Lay was a German rocket engineer who had helped found an amateur spaceflight society in Berlin and who left Germany in 1935 because he could not stand what it was becoming.

And a specific part of what he could not stand was the pseudoscience, which wouldn't happen in today's America. Right? Measles isn't back. No. Anthony Fauci is not about to have the worst year of his life for no fucking reason.

Pseudoscience. Yeah. Wouldn't rise. So this guy left Germany in 1935 because pseudoscience was rising. in Germany, and he watched the best universities in the world at this time start taking cranks seriously, and that was it. The brain drain of any fascist regime.

And that article that he wrote is him explaining to Americans how a modern country went insane, and his answer is that the place was drowning in nonsense, and then he makes a list. Cosmic Ice Theory, the racial mystics. and one paragraph about a group in Berlin, which he says he thinks was called Wahherst Vahars Geschelchoft, or the Society for Truth, and which spent its spare time looking for Vrille.

He does not know their name. He is simply writing from memory, openly saying he's writing from memory 12 years later for a science fiction magazine, and he hedges it in print, and he tells you what they were doing, which was trying to find frill, by contemplating the structure of an apple cut in half.

We'll talk about it next episode. Contemplating the structure of an apple cut in half? Dude, I leave that in there for you. We'll talk about it next episode. But that's it. That is the entire contemporary basis for what would spin out to become known as the Vrill Society. It's even more embarrassing than I thought it was going to be, to be honest.

It's even like the fact that it's the 90s. Yeah. The 90s. Well, this guy was writing this in 19. 40s. Well, I know, but I'm just saying, like, the fact that it all boils down to, like, 90s imagery for all of that stuff. And then we're talking about just like people going, basically looking back to being like, oh, yeah, this too. Oh, yeah, this too. Oh, yeah, this too. Yeah. That's so lame. But, like, where the Vril society comes from is this dude trying to explain

that he thinks there might have been a group called the Society of Truth doing dumb bullshit with something called Vrille. And that's it. And from that in the 70s, 80s and 90s, the Vrille Society myth was born because this guy said this once. This is it. One paragraph about this shit using it, by the way, as an example to show people how stupid

his country God, how unbearably fucking dumb everybody got in his country and he left. And under Willie Lay, there is one more bit, which is that the Vrill in his paragraph comes from the novel, Bullwer-Layton, 1871,

the cosmic race, which he wrote and published as fiction and never once claimed otherwise. You'd be like if the world was ending and we like made a society to study the force. Yes. Like he's like fucking crazy. It's that dumb shit. It's so annoying. All of that leaves leaves us with Thule.

And Thule is the one I do actually have to kind of be a little bit more. I have to handle it a little bit more gently because the Thule Society genuinely did exist. Like it was real. really was founded in Munich in 1918 by a man calling himself Sabetendorf. It really was anti-Semitic and nationalist and mystical. And it really did own the newspaper that became the Volkishir Bulbectar, and it really did sponsor the party that Hitler joined and took over. That everything we went over, all that is real.

But Hitler was never a member. He never showed up as a spy and joined them. He never joined. And there was actually no evidence. He ever attended a meeting in the fucking first place. And we can say that with unusual confidence because a fool member kept a diary of the society's meetings. And Hitler is not in it. Ever.

There's not even good evidence that Hitler and Sabetendorf not even met each other once. I'm not surprised at all. And some of the all-star Nazi memberships that were supposed to be there like Hess and Rosenberg, Himmler was also another Roman member and Goring, comes in the form. Everybody quotes from a book published in 1964, not from a Thule diary thing or any of the government paperwork. A book by Good Rick Clark, who is the historian who actually did the archival work, went through those roles and called them spurious and fanciful and found that several of the biggest names were never more than just guess once or twice at a fool meeting. And they probably just thought these guys were a bunch of fucking dorks. They didn't do anything.

people the lodge extended hospitality to during a private, like during a revolution rather, in a city where everybody on the national, nationalist right was in and out of everybody else's room. This is a time where all the right is trying to figure out how to get the left out of power. And the most actual membership, and most of the actual membership did not care about the occult at all. The occult was not the central point of the Thule Society. That was a Betendorf's thing. What the membership cared about was anti-Semitism and stopping communists. So stupid. So stupid.

Yeah, Thule was a right-wing political operation. That's just dickheads. Just dickheads of the library. Yeah. They just had the tip of its dick dipped into mystical magic shit. And that's it. The lodge created the party thing needs one, like, how do I word this? Hara really was commissioned by Thule.

and he really did go build the workers circle with Drexler, which really did become the DAP. That chain is also very real. But look at what happened to Herrer. He wanted a small semi-secret discussion club because a lodge was the only thing he knew how to build. Hitler wanted mass rallies in street confrontation. And Hitler ran him out of his own party by early 1920,

about a year after it was founded, and about four months after he joined it. Carl Herrer died in 1926 of 35 years old. And if you could measure of how much the occult lodge ended up steering the thing it supposedly created, it would be minimal. It would be minimal. Thule built, like, it was a political wing more than magic. The magic shit was made up. Research of what the Nazis were doing.

Like, it's not hard to see what they were doing when they weren't running an occult, like secret society. And Sabendorf, he was out of the Thule Society. by the end of 1919, blamed internally for the membership list getting into communist hands and getting those men killed that I talked about. And then he was mostly out of the Germany for the next 13 years. In 1933, the Nazis take power, and then Sabtendorf comes home. And he comes home to collect. He publishes a book that year called Bovar Hitler Com, which is just before Hitler came.

And the entire argument of it is, I did this. My society paved the road. It was me, the Thullers. were the first ones Hitler came to, we made him. And you know what the Nazis did when that book came out? They banned it. Yeah. They banned it immediately.

They prohibited it. And then in 1934, they arrested him and put him in prison for a stretch of time. And then he left the country again into exile in Turkey. I wonder what he thought about that. He didn't make it like his little star child. Like that didn't have. Oh, God. I'd love to read his, I'd love to read his diary about what he thought about getting banned

and sent out of Germany. I'm sure he loved it. I'm sure he absolutely loved it. So for the next couple of years, the regime would roll up the German esoteric scene generally. The lodges and the occult orders and the masons, all that shit, they were all legislated out of existence and shut down

after the Nazis took power. The one man in history who stood up and publicly claimed that an occult society created the Nazi party was arrested by the Nazi party for fucking saying it. That doesn't sound familiar. Some of the people out there right now seem to be having a weird turn to heart or a change of heart

because something that they thought was on their side is turning on them. You're an idiot. It's just like it's not the first. It's not the second, it's on the third, it's up to the 10th, not the 100th time this happened. This has always happened.

This guy ended up in Istanbul, and there is credible material. Like we have a little evidence that he spent the war years working for German intelligence there and possibly for the British at the same time. And on the 8th of May, 1945, he went into Bosphorus and drowned. At least,

and it's generally recorded as a suicide as far as we know. Yeah, he went and just killed himself in 1945. He just went to... Why? We don't know. We don't know. Okay. The 8th of May, 1945, is the day the war in Europe ended,

and he was dead. So I just spent you guys telling you the story and then some time taking it apart, which is that, like saying like a lot of this didn't happen, but that is not what next week is going to happen. Basically, where we leave this here and kind of this weird tangential is that this is where our story ends. Because when we pick up next week with our new episode, the Nazis did dabble in the occult. We have record of it, and they did do some weird shit.

While it may not be as grandiose and mystical and magical as the fool society and all these mystical UFOs being built and all this stuff. That stuff, we may not have been real. There is stuff. Next week we go to Velfisburg, the actual castle, and what Himmler was actually building in there,

which nobody ever finished, which is honestly probably stranger than the version with the Black Sun thing that they were talking about. We also are going to go to Anuribay, which was a state-funded research institute with a real budget in real academics, whose actual job was to go

out and find the evidence for a mythology that are that have already been agreed on. And then we do the 1938 expedition to Tibet, which absolutely did happen. And what they were really doing there, which was measuring people's heads. And we'll get into all that stuff next week. Damn it. Oh, boys. That is the mythological version of the Nazis and the occult. And the reasons it's all a bunch of made up bullshit.

A bunch of dorks. It's a bunch of dorks. It's a bunch of dorks. I'm sorry. It's a depressing list of dweeb's doing dumb shit. But sometimes that is the reality of it all. And that's exactly. Like, look at Stephen Miller.

He is the dwebiest of dorks. He is an absolute nerd. Nobody likes. And like, this is the kind of dude. He would have been in the fool society. Like, that is the fool society. A thousand percent. Crazy shit.

That's all of it for today, boys. Swiping their nasty smell on everything. They're freaking gooch stains. and sneered on everything. Disgusting little angry people. It is. I hope you boys enjoyed. I hope everybody listening enjoyed.

We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. Appreciate you all for listening. Thank you so much. Right. I have to go to a Minnesota at patreon.com slash chulamati pod. And we appreciate you. Love you. Goodbye.

Thanks. Bye. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Chulminati podcast. As always, I'm one of your host, Mike Martin, joined by the... I don't know who they are. There's two... What?

Terrence Hill and Bud Spencer. No. Neo and Trinity. Oh. I don't understand, and I probably never will. Let me just tell you right now that there's two... Leon Kennedy and Claire Redfield. I'm telling you, I think he...