Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 362: Nazis and the Occult Part 2

Episode Date: August 16, 2026

If you thought last week’s pulp version of Nazis and the Occult was ridiculous, Mathas shows Alex and Jesse that truth behind it all is somehow even stupider: enter Heinrich Himmler, and the Ice Theory.CHILLUMINATI is a weekly comedy podcast hosted by Mike Martin, Jesse Cox and Alex Faciane. Hold on to your tin-foil hats and traverse the realms of the mysterious, supernatural, spooky and sometimes truly horrible - and your third eye will never be the same!Subscribe to our Patreon to support us and for extra content like full video episodes, weekly Minisodes, exclusive art, and more at http://patreon.com/CHILLUMINATIPODThank you to our sponsors:ZOCDOC - Taking care of your health just got easier – start here with Zocdoc: https://zocdoc.com/CHILL #sponsoredOFFICIAL MERCH: https://theyetee.com/chilluminatiMike Martin - http://www.youtube.com/@themoleculemindset Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - https://www.youtube.com/@StarWarsOldCanonBookClub/Editor: DeanCutty Producer: Hilde @ https://bsky.app/profile/heksen.bsky.social Show Art: Studio Melectro @ http://www.instagram.com/studio_melectro Logo Design: Shawn JPB @ https://twitter.com/JetpackBraggin

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Chulamati podcast. As always, I am one of your host, Mike Martin, joined by my own personal, I'd stop scruping, Jesse and Alex. I don't know what you said, and I'm not sure I... I don't want to take it on board. It's suspiciously angry and Germanic sounding. It's been a lot of... Was that a good thing you said?

No, no, no. You don't want to be part of that. Then why'd you say we were? Why'd you put that on us? That's your own personal that? I thought we were friends. You said your own. personal. That's even darker, dude.

That's true. I don't mean it in that way. You said it. You're like, you're, you said, why say things if you don't mean it? You know what you are? You're the I'd stop scruping of having a good time. That probably is even worse. Is this something we're going to learn about today? A little bit. Can't wait to find the context for this one. Guys, if you want to support this show, head on over to patreon.com slash Chimani Pod. Because over there, what do you get, but an extra piece of content every time we put up

an episode here where we go through some kind of crazy news story or I pull up some kind of reader story or dream or some kind of strangeness that I found somewhere on the internet. And it's always a good time. It's quite fun. It's the minisodes. That's right. And there's so many out there for you to listen to over at patreon.com slash two-noddypod, plus all the other great stuff we got over there.

And it's the only way to keep the show going exactly how we wanted to go. You know what I mean? Sign up. Support us there. We like that. It helps us. It helps us relax and do the show. show the way we want to do it. You know what I mean?

Definitely. I want you all to sit back, relax, and enjoy some Nazi horrors. Oh, man. Look, every time Mathis does a historical episode, I'm like, all right, here we go. But this last time, I had a good time because first you made me start thinking about Indiana Jones and Hellboy and all the stuff that I like, the Justice Society, all these cool things, you know, Nazi punchers, demons, weird medallions that can like shoot flames. or whatever. But today, none of that, right? Well, there's some of that.

There's some of like that occult stuff. But instead of backed by the myth of the society of Thule and Hitler being the chosen one and Dr. Doom witches all prophesizing the future and getting blueprint sent to them beamed in from some bizarre alien out in a star system, tonight's a lot more horrific than that. But there is sprinklings of that. But tonight, for everybody who's listening like, this is all stuff that's documented. This is all just historical record. You can kind of go back and see all of the paperwork that goes into this.

Because tonight is part two of Nazis and the occult gentleman. Buckle in. We're going in. Oh, I'm buckled. I'm just going to get my pushing gift ready up on the side just to dissociate when I need to. Yeah, there's definitely going to be at least one section that's a little bit rough to hear more than the rest. Oh, one?

Just one? One in particular I'm thinking of. There's a lot others that are just bad in general, but. almost everything tonight that we're going to be talking about actually traces back to a single man, a man that I, Adolf Hitler. Actually, No.

This is another guy, though, that like I would love to cover in some way in the future on this show, whether it be like a multi-part history episode on my part, Jesse's part, like whoever covers it. I just want to know. But this guy, we all,

we've heard his name in class unless you had terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible education. Heinrich Himmler. One of the most villainous people, like the real Red Skull. And a lot like last week, one of the most whiny dwebes. This is coming from like a dweeb.

One of the wieniest dweeps in the world. Coming from a dweeb, this guy was pretty dweeby. Yeah, this dude's a dweeb even to me. So far, you've said that Alex and I were whatever the hell Nazi group. We are. Something great. Something probably with good moral stance. ending. I, you know, as a Himmler-esque character, I get Himmler is what I, is what I believe you just

said. I don't think that's at all what I said. I'm pretty sure that's what you said. I don't think that's what I said. I'm looking at the words I wrote and I'm not seeing that said. I am very much like as a dweeb like Himmler was. I guess check me. He got me. So Heinrich Himmler was born in 1900 in Munich, which made him barely too young to actually participate in the first World War. He got into officer training. He desperately wanted to see combat. And the war ended before he could ever do that. Is he like a fancy boy type character or like a man of the earth?

Oh, he's a fancy boy. He's not a man of the earth at all. The fact that he didn't see combat actually ended up mattering to this dude enormously for the rest of his life. Every other man in the room that he would hang out with all had a war story, all had combat experience. And he was, he felt so alone. He never got to see combat and go shoot people. And he was very sad about that. What he did instead was study agriculture.

He got a diploma in that. And in the mid-20s, Heinrich Himmler was a chicken farmer. He had a poultry operation outside of Munich. And he was trying to breed chickens. And that also went terribly for him. And failed, failed. Fell apart. His all chicken breeding hobby business did not work out.

Is that separate from his chicken farming business? No, no. Like he was trying to breed chickens on the farm. I get what you're saying. I just mean like he was, you said he's a chicken farmer, but then you're, I'm trying to understand if he was, like on the side of his normal chicken farming,

was he doing this weird thing when he was trying to like meugenics chickens together? It was all one thing. I think he was just breeding chickens to sell the people. It wasn't any, like, genetics involved yet with this guy. But interesting note. And if you're asking, like, why any of that fucking matters anyway, it's because he's an abject failure pretty much in life. And like all evil men of mediocrity.

Like all fascists. Like all fascists. This literally would dictate kind of his personality for the rest of this man's ungodly life. No pun intended. Exactly. Himmler was a pedant. He was super fussy by people who knew him. apparently very detail obsessed, and he was a bureaucrat who kept meticulous records of everything

he did, including his own reading list. And I, like, like people who worked around him described somebody who looked like a school master, quote unquote, and often acted like one. That's what I mean by like, when you ask if he's a man of the earth or what he's like, we all know this. We all know this type of motherfucker. If you're, if you're doing a good job and there's a guy who, sticks to every detail, that guy's probably like a genius master.

If you're all failing and there's one guy who's like, why aren't you taking out the trap? Like that guy's probably the most toxic motherfucker in the goddamn work puts. Yeah, exactly. This guy was not a warrior or soldier by any stretch. And this dude was not even remotely charismatic at all. In fact, the story I want to jump to kind of give you a like to kind of give you a good example of what this guy is takes place during World War II.

And this is the story where I'm just like, just be prepared. This is not a pleasant story at all. But I really want to give you like a solid idea of what this man's character was like. And this is all from trials and such to like that we learned about this. So like I said, he started in, while he started as a chicken farmer, he got heavily into the SS and all that stuff. And we're going to fast forward for the story to 1940. When he started listening to like a podcast? Yeah, exactly.

He started redpilling himself on some podcasts and very quickly was pipelined down. into the SS of it all. So we're in August of 1941. I just want to, I just want to say for the record, the man you're describing could in modern day terms be called a gravy seal. Yeah. Yeah. Is who this is. Yes. I've never heard that term. Oh, it's my favorite term of just like, like big old fat dude who puts on cosplay military stuff and goes around and pretends that he's important. This is exactly what the story is going to encapsulate, I think, for you. It's like a guy. Like if this, like if there was MMOs at this time, he probably would have never joined the SS. Yeah.

Yeah. He would have just leaving out on the dungeon. Right, right, right, right. He just could have gone to lead raids. Yeah, he would have been. Yeah, he would have been. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Kicking somebody for like the smallest DPS did. So this story takes place August of 1941. At this point, the invasion of the Soviet Union is about two months old. And the Einstein's grouping, which is the killing units operating behind the front. That's what the killing units of having a good time. That's what we are. Yeah, you're killing people with laughter. That's what you are.

That's how I put it on my business card. That's what I left her. Yeah. However, that's what the Joker puts on his business card too, by the way. Just saying it. So while this is still going on, Himmler has a bit of a personal problem at this point in history.

His men are breaking. And as an example, one of his officers, a man who was personally responsible for tens of thousands of deaths and murders of innocent people. people. Sounds like a cool dude. Yeah,

seemed like a super cool dude. Had a nervous breakdown and was found in his bed babbling nonsense about how you could not shoot that many people. And what was really needed was a plow. He needed a plow. We got to kill him all with a plow. Squad members were. What? Literally.

So it's an example of somebody in charge of killing an unfathable amount of people breaking their brain. Him having to figure out a way. To actually do it. Kill everybody. And he's like, we can't. We don't have, we need a plow. We need a plow to do this. We can't kill all these people with the way that you want us to.

And that's Himmler's problem at the moment is that they need to kill more people in the firing squads are not doing it well enough. And this is going to be a cool story. I can already tell. Yeah, absolutely. Squad members are even refusing to do it. And the units themselves had a term for what was happening to the men that were going through with it, which ends up translating to something like along the lines of like it, they, they

end up inheriting a burdening of the soul. Like the people who go out there and fucking blow. Murder, murder innocent people who don't deserve it. Yeah. And so like they, yeah, they inherit a burdening of the soul. That's not what they call a burdening of a soul.

That is literally what is called a burdening of the soul. That's what everybody means when they say a burdening of the soul. That is fucked up as shit. Well, Hamler's getting these reports and he's getting very frustrated by them. And partly because he's now under pressure from above and two weeks, earlier, his commanders had been told that the Fuhr himself wanted to be kept continually informed about how the work in the east where Himmler was, was going.

So, Sim, Himmler needed to be like appeasing Hitler and needed the shit to be going smoothly. So he goes east himself and he goes, he gets into Minsk and he asks a man by the name of Arthur Neib, who runs Eidstach's group in B, to put on an execution while he was there. The reason he gives is that he has heard so much fuss about how many problems they have doing this that he wants to see it for himself what one of these quote unquote liquidations look like. He's like, show me the atrocity. I want to see one of these atrocities.

What is the problem? Show me murder. And he's like, yeah, he wants to basically do an atrocity for me. Yeah. It's also important to note is that up to this point in his life, even this far into the war, it's reported he'd still never seen a single person killed once in his life. He had not seen combat. He had not been in like he had never seen.

You tell me this is going to have. The dudes who are really always pro war, always the ones who never once saw combat. He's the head of the SS at this point. That's what I'm saying. Literally ahead of the SS. It's dudes who never see bloodshed are the ones who are like, I think we should go to war.

Yeah, every time. So on the 15th of August in 1941, Neeb arranged for about 100 prisoners from the Minsk prison to be shot. And it was going to be carried out by the Einstein's commando eight with a police battalion attached to it. All but all but two of the hundred men, all but two of the hundred prisoners were men. Two of them were women. A grave had been dug, left open, and people were made to get down into it and lay face down in the dirt and were shot from the edge of the grave. and when a row had already been shot, the next row had to lie down on top of them.

That was the process. Do you have your little pushing still there? I'm just looking at it, just letting it rock. Has it, has it helping? Nope. All right. That was the process that they were doing this all by. Before it started by the accounts of the men standing next to Himmler, Himmler was being

casual about it. He said he walked over and asked some of the prisoners questions, making small talk with the prisoners before all this started. He was just chatting him up. And that only lasted until the first volley of bullets, obviously. A man by the name of Eric von Dem Bach Zeluiski, who was the senior SS and police commander for that whole region, testified later about what Himmler looked like once it began.

He said Himmler was extremely nervous, and when it started, he could not stand still. His face went pale white, and that with every burst of gunfire, he refused to look at the victims and he just looked at the ground. Yeah, no fucking shit. Yeah.

And then Himmler, out of what he describes as curiosity, walked up and stood right at the edge of the open grave and looked down into it. And when he did, he got hit when the next wave of bullets came, but not by a bullet, something that came off one of the victims and had what got shot in the head, flew out, landed on his coat, and apparently Himmler nearly fainted and passed out in the moment when that, when that happened.

This is like fucking snowpiercer. Like what the fuck are you talking about this actually happened? It's crazy. The execution is literally like a villain story. Like this is like theoretically evil. It's insane. The executions would continue until finally the last two women who were the women were shot and they ended up being. shot repeatedly because they weren't dying from the bullets.

And Himmler saw this. And when Himmler saw this, he started to freak the fuck out. He started shouting at his men, calling them all incompetent for not being able to kill the two women. He was yelling at the squad to stop torturing them and just hurry up and to finish it. Basically, it's like, he's standing and just, just, dude is just standing there screaming while this is all, this horrifying thing is happening in front of him. And the whole thing he's outraged by in this moment is how sloppily it's being done.

When it was finally done and all the executions were done, Bach Zuluski went at him. And by his account is that he turned to Himmler and said, there were only a hundred of them. Look at the eyes of the men in his unit. And now look at how deeply shaken they are from that. Those men are finished for the rest of their careers in their lives, that they would no longer be able to be participating in the war.

And like, just so you know, too, this is a man, this Bakaziluiluizki, Zuliski guy, not a hero. Obviously, he would go on from this to be one of the most murderous people in the war. So this guy, if you even feel for a moment, like a thing, at least somebody's telling him like he's garbage. Yeah, no, I don't think what he's saying is, look, you've ruined the humanities of these men. I think he's saying, they're useless to us in the war now. They have no value to us now.

Yeah, exactly. I don't think he's thinking of them as like anything more than pieces to be used. And this is how every person like this thinks because they're all just a bunch of fucking sociopaths that found each other and don't care. Thank you so much to Zoc Doc for sponsoring today's episode and I have a confession to make. I'm a millennial.

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Thank you so much to Zok-D-O-C for sponsoring today's episode. After getting talked down to by this guy, Himmler would go on and give the men a speech. Maybe that'll help. He had the shooting squad gather in a semicircle, and then he climbed up and stood on his car so that he would be a little bit higher than everybody could see the whole unit at once.

And what he told them essentially was that he had now seen with his own eyes how hard this job was. He knew it was terrible, even for him as a spectator, and it must be far worse with the men who actually had to do it. But he could not see any way around it. He couldn't relieve them of their duty and he could not spare them from the horrors that they were going to have to encounter by doing this.

So they had to be hard and they had to stand firm in the interests of the Reich and in the first great war of what he expected would be a thousand year war. They had to their duty to maintain this however hard it seemed. You know, in my mind, I'm visualizing the scene from Andor or what's his face tells those guys before like, I don't know, the second of the last episode of season one, where it's like, we're doing this, guys, and we're gonna go in there and really,

and they're like, well, yeah, no, good job, sir. I imagine, you know,

the written version of the speech is a lot more, you know, concise than probably this guy standing up there and trying to his best to, like, forget what he just saw. The vibe always has to be like, everybody underneath them is like,

we are so fucked. Like, we are so fucked. Like, that's got to just be, like, now that we're basically living, in like a sociopaths government ourselves like just everything that happens I'm just like

fuck yeah just what the fuck and it just feels I can just imagine it and it's like at this point we're talking about shooting people in the head on top of each other too and it's they've reduced it to like like like annoying bureaucracy literally and like the story actually goes on like we're not going to go through the whole the rest of this but it goes on but big because of this event, that's where the gas chambers come from. Because it was too... Because this was not fast enough. Not, you know,

their first experiment was actually jamming up 25 people in like a concrete block in filled with explosives. What? And blowing them up. That didn't work out. So they started working on the gas chambers and this all led to gas chambers and that's kind of where the origin of that

comes from. It blows them up. Yeah, that's what... Like a fucking... Comic book villain, dude. Like burning trash. Yes. Man, dude.

It's fucked. So, you know, that's the kind of dude. This guy is going into this. And also before I forget, a little bit less intense, his reading list, remember I told you he kept notes of everything. Sure. We actually have because of his reading list, like a real time running history of this guy's interests and like what he was reading, when he was reading it and stuff like that.

And as historians have gone through it, you can watch his, personality and his interest in the occult kind of assemble in real time. Like his, when he picked up occult stuff, when he started reading about racial pseudoscience and folklore, our agricultural manuals sitting right next to each other about, you know, like he's been, we can see all of that being built. This man had very much his own inner life. That was extremely strange. He was obsessed, come to find out with a medieval king, Heinrich the first, Henry the Fowler,

who died in the year 936, and who was. is generally credited with getting the German kingdom kind of started. Himmler collected everything about this dude. And in 1930s, that's me. And in 1936, on the thousandth anniversary of the man's death, Himmler held the ceremony at Quedlinburg Cathedral,

where the king is buried, and he turned it into an SS occasion, like most fascist governments turn anything into about themselves. And there are accounts that Himmler believed he was Heinrich the Fowler, reincarnated. You know what? The dweeb thing

is starting to make a lot more sense. That's just who this guy was. So everything we're about to go through with his expeditions, institutes and castles, he goes like weird index of cards and weird things. This was all like from one dude.

This is not unlike last week where we talked about the stuff as an ideology of the movement. In reality, all the occult stuff comes from this guy. Hitler thought most of it was ridiculous and said so privately more than once to multiple different people. And Goebbels thought it was an embarrassment. The party literally had no interest.

So to me, what's so fascinating is something that this one dude latched on to that the rest of the government hated ended up being so persuasive in pop culture, I guess, is a way to put it. You know, you know probably why is because it was like, shit, okay. All right, we're going to write some stories about killing Nazis. Great. Okay, awesome. Let's look and see what's the weirdest Nazis. Oh, Heinrich Himmler, the occult guy. So the Nazis were into the occult, eh?

You know what? You probably just fucking do that exactly how it went, and I'm overthinking it. So let's start with one of the earliest little weird beliefs he started searching into, which is that a significant portion of the German government actually believed that the universe was made of ice. What the fuck? Wait, okay. Like here are you? Okay.

Well, everybody, welcome. We all agreed. It's ice all the way down, right? Yep, just checking. Yeah, yeah. On ice. Yeah, okay. That's his ice.

Yes. Okay, great. I don't think it's ice. Blam, blam, blam! All ice. Great. Just wanted to make sure it's ice. Is that why it's called ice?

Yeah, that's why it's called ice. Oh, if the universe is ice, I don't want to be in it anymore, dude. So the man responsible for this belief is named Wait, you're telling me the Nazis thought the universe was made of ice? We'll get into it. We'll get into it. The main response for this belief is Hans Horibyser and Austrian engineer. And the thing about this dude is he was actually kind of like legitimately good at his actual job.

He designed an improved valve that was genuinely important to like their own technology. He worked on the Budapest subway and the engineering firm he founded actually still exists. It is still selling compression technology today. Like he had real engineering accomplishments. And in 1894, he was looking at the moon through a small telescope. And he thought that is awfully bright. And so it's probably ice. Okay.

And then further that belief just in case, he had a dream later in which he was floating in space watching a silver pendulum swing back and forth. And the pendulum kept getting longer and longer until it finally broke. And when he woke up, he had concluded that Isaac Newton was wrong. Well, clearly. And if you're the like genius. geology, like, guard for checking people's lineage, whether or not they can be a Nazi, you have to be like, and the universe is made of?

Exactly. Ice. Yeah. They called this the ice theory. The ice theory. It's like calling the movie Plain, Plain. Well, we'll get to it. And I heard everybody's comments about my terrible German pronunciation.

And I promise you, I did not go listen to how things are pronounced again. I'm just going to continue to butcher it. So the theory is called Velteshire. Yep. And it just means, it literally just means, hobbits with jackets on. Yep, got it. World ice theory.

And what it says is that ice is the fundamental substance of the entire universe. The stars are ice. Planets, ice. Frozen water. Milky Way also is a ring of ice blocks. Frozen H2O? Frozen H2O. Frozen H2O.

Ice, like water. frozen ice space itself is filled with an ice ether the moon is ice what wait isn't ice ether water would you believe this theory isn't true i just i'm just trying to understand like i even i understand like about kryptonite i you know at the moon through his telescope concluded that the universe is ice i feel like alex doesn't understand i feel like he's not picking up on this i don't know why it's not that hard ice it's very fast ilex Ice, the universe is filled with ice ether. Yeah.

But it's not just water. Ice ether. Okay. All right. Clearly. Do I need to clarify? Why does that matter? Like, my thing is like, why does that matter?

Like, what does that have to do with, like, being white and shit? Well, because. We'll get there. We'll get there. The further north you get the colder it becomes. And the lighter skin you have. You're not thinking, you're not thinking with Nazis. now. So the only thing, the only thing better than an Aryan is like a fucking abominable snowman.

That's why they keep talking about the Nords and whatever, dude. Dude. All right. All right. All right. Also learn that from the tall whites, as we all know. But not Earth? The moon is ice. And more than that, the moon we currently have isn't even the first moon we've ever had. In Horbiger's cosmology, the Earth has captured and destroyed several moons over its history. and every time one of them spiraled in and broke up, it dumped a layer of ice and debris on our planet, and that is what geological strata actually are from. But we're not ice?

It's probably ice in our core. I see. So we're like ice, but with like a bunch of dirt on top. Yeah. And then other ice. My man just went. Yeah.

And then ice bodies in space smashed against us depositing more ice and dirt on us. And that's the building blocks of everything that we know in the universe. I don't know why that's so complicated. I mean, it's not. It's definitely not complicated. And his followers ran with it when this news came out because, fuck, if moons keep falling,

then you have to have an explanation for every flood myth in human history. And this must be the logical reason that God flooded the earth, but it was probably a part of the moon, our first moon or second moon that came down and crashed and melted and flood the entire thing. Also, that's probably the reason that there was an Atlantis. They should call this the God is real and everything is Ice Theory because that is a part that they didn't lead with that I'm surprised by considering their Nazis that God is involved. Well, this is before, this is 1890s when this theory is coming out. I see.

And this is the theory that Himmler ascribed to, but this is where it came from. But isn't he a Nazi? Himmler, yes. Like real talk. Real talk. Real talk. Real talk. Real talk.

As a Nazi belief is what I'm saying. Any of the higher up Nazis actually fool on like. racist about Himmler behind that's what I'm saying. Like most of these guys didn't believe half the shit they were saying it was just the ways to control people who did believe that stuff. So this is just like... They were just bad people like genuinely terrible

people. Like yes they were Nazis but most of them So this is like there was another group called like Nazi too. They would have joined that if it helped them. Yeah. This is the kitchen nightmares guy who buys his own chef whites and a car of Corvette that says chef on the license plate. Yes. Yeah. They were just all assholes. They were all giant assholes.

Well, Horbiger back to tell. Yeah, real talk. Horbiger back in 1912 published this belief that he came to with an amateur astronomer named Philip Fowth. And professional astronomers decided to take a look at it and almost immediately said this is all fucking nonsense. Which, surprise, it is. And you know what's crazy? I'm not even a astronomer and I was pretty sure that it was wrong too. You got a good gut instinct.

I got a good gut instinct. Yeah. And for a decade, he kept trying to push it. It went nowhere. So after about a decade of that, he switched up. What the fuck does it matter that everything's made of ice if you're never going to see or touch it or go to it? I just, why does that matter to him? Strategies failing.

Tell me if his strategy switch up sounds familiar as though we've not seen it played out a million times. Immediate right wing drift. Instead of trying to convince other astronomers, he stopped doing that and he decided, fuck it. I'm going right to the public. Books, pamphlets, lectures, posters, newsletters, whole organization machine. His people showed up at professional astronomy meetings and started heckling professional astronomers, shouting that the audience should throw out orthodoxy and give them Horbiger instead. And surprisingly at this point of my life, or rather unsurprisingly at this point of my life,

I worked. It just worked. The German Horbiger organization ended up with thousands of members. Why did anybody care about this? A movement about the moon being ice. Like, yes, the moon's ice. Like, what is the selfish underpinning of this that makes it make sense? You can't let it go?

Like, you can't let go that he was wrong. You're like a guy on the street, just walking down the street. You have no idea what's going on. Somebody's like, did you hear the news? And you're like, what's the news? Everything up there, including this planet and everything that you see at night, all the stars, everything, that's ice. I'm like, I got to know more.

Sign me up. Like, why? I feel like that could happen in L.A. The guy telling me everything's ice, that shit happens all the time. Then, but then I don't turn around to go. Yeah. But I don't go, you don't say, hey, is there anywhere I can sign up for more information? Can I give you my email?

Like, what? I bet you you would be genuinely surprised about how many people do go, I do want to know more. I thought you were going to say, I thought you were going to be, you might be genuinely surprised how interesting it is if the moon is made of us. I'm like, dude, what, what, what, what does it change? All right, never mind. That change in tactic happened around 1922. Orbitura died in 1931.

And from that point on, his followers kind of had control of this idea at this point. And they made a decision that utterly changed this thing into something new. Let me guess. They're at a meeting and one guy goes, hey, wait a minute. we're all hell of racist, right? And they go, yeah! And then they just change it to Nazis. You are 75% correct.

The less the racism part and more, nobody else wants us part because nobody believes us. So they decided to tie themselves to the Nazis since mainstream acceptance and astronomers had denied them. They are just one big YouTuber that got canceled and had to. go join the far right. Well, so they, they genuinely came together and created a pitch deck as to how they were going to pitch themselves to the Nazis. A PDF, the attachment.

And so, basically their idea was like, well, because like spatial relative, the general relativity was getting called Jewish science on account of Einstein being Jewish right now. Here were the ICE people offering an entire, wait, wait, wait. Yeah, I can't finish that yet. The center, the reason it's Jews, is because a Jewish scientist said the moon is not made of ice. And he's wrong because he's Jewish. And that's why we got to kill all the Jews. Well, that's why they decided that's how they're going to pitch themselves to the Nazi.

They knew their audience. I mean, like, even that, you have to imagine, because the Nazis were just Naziing, right? So they probably just took it as an excuse. But even that, you know when they went to that meeting, they're like, okay, so here, is why we must kill them. The moon, they say the moon. As we all know, and no one's

going to stop me on this. You're just like a gun cock. The moon is made of ice. As they're saying, it's not made of ice. And you know when they left the room, the Nazis were like, okay. The fuck.

Like, we're, like, we're going to run with it, but that was the craziest thing you've ever fucking heard, right? Like, that was insane. They're like for the ethno state So Since general relatively was created by a Jewish Scientists Fuck everybody who thinks like this

They're everywhere today now Oh my God fuck them We are The Ice people Offering an entire alternative cosmology And bonus points It was invented by an Austrian man

That could be presented as the German alternative fact to general relativity. Why would you present alternative fact to general relativity out of hate? Because their science is Jewish science. Like, what does he... It grows Jewish science. Like, I don't fucking know. Like, I don't know what the reasoning is.

Like, it doesn't make any sense. So... Oh. Their line was just... Was that just as it took a child of Austrian culture to deal with the Jewish politicians, it took another Austrian to clean up Jewish science. And that's what their pitch was. Cool.

And they leaned hard on the fact that Horbiger was an amateur and not a credentialed academic. Also sound familiar to today. Which they said was the same thing that made Hitler great. He wasn't part of the deep state, dude. He's not part of the system. He's not one of the paid scientists. He doesn't know anything, dude, just like us. He's absolutely clueless about this.

and he says whatever he needs to say to get ahead for us. The last little bit that they tagged on, and this is the part that was brought up earlier as a pitch from Jesse, is they also decided like, look, we're going to pitch to Nazis. We do have to work the race angle a little bit more directly with them. They also argued that, well, we're going to have to work the race angle, guys.

They argued that the Nordic man grew strong in ice and snow. That's really, they really went with my first. first guess. I don't, didn't want to spoil. The Nordic man grew strong in ice and snow. So,

so belief in a universe made of ice was his natural inheritance. So we believe that we are the ice people. And the universe belongs to us. Their best, and ice either. Their best hope was that because they were

ice people, they could just chill out. They weren't even like, what if we, become Nazis in Bremuta? They didn't even try to go for like a beach. They were like, no, no. We're all the universe is ice. Everything's ice. We love the cold.

That's where they, that's what. So you question, how many people at the top actually bought into this? The answer may surprise you. Himmler, obviously, was the man fucking tout in this thing. Eventually a man by the name of Annenherbe, which we'll get to in a little bit, actually

was so into it. He stood up a division to use. use world ice theory to make weather forecasts. And that went about... Today? Ice. Tomorrow, I think it's going to be ice. Everything.

Ice. It is going to have ice tomorrow. Everything is ice. Sunlight. Ice. Ice light. And Hitler himself was a believer. He...

This sucks. Because now all... thinking about is them going to like a kegger and being like, a beer choices, bud ice, nutty ice. Like, ice cold,

like that's like, if there was an analogy for their personality. No, they would though. That's like all they could handle. Everything else too spicy. Fucking. Not,

he was almost when we spit my water out. That almost. He was such a believer that he often talked about it. And he actually had. planned to build a planetarium in Lins and dedicate an entire floor of it to Horbinger. But by some accounts, he floated the idea that world ice theory might eventually replace Christianity as a thing Germans believed about the cosmos. Why?

Wait. But what does it mean? Okay. About the cosmos. Everything. Okay, wait. My man's struggling. He's trying to find something.

All of existence. is ice. You heard. Therefore, we are the gods of reality. And we are, you know, as white people, we're Nordic. And Nordic people are strong in ice. Let's be clear. They didn't mean all white people.

No, what's this we? I don't want to involve myself in this. I'm not part of anybody benefiting from any sort of Nazi ideal. You're a little too spicy. It's not actually where ICE is from, though, right? I don't know, isn't it? That's really not actually what they call it ice, though, right? it's not some like dog whistle hate type shape.

I'm assuming no, but I haven't done my research into them. You're convincing me more and more that it's actually that dumb, like a doge level. It might be. I wouldn't necessarily doubt it. They didn't like my dancing. So I'll make them like it. I'll take over this country, make them like it. So from there, we move into one of my, another person we need to talk about with these weird beliefs and where they come from.

an individual by the name of Carl Maria Willigot. He was born in Vienna in 1866, not Vietnam. Okay. And he spent about 35 years as a real officer in the Austro-Hungarian army. He fought in the First World War, and he came out of it a colonel. On paper, up to about 1918, that we could find. This is like, he is basically has a completely unremarkable career military man life. However, it's what Willigut believe,

about himself that made him important to how things would go. Is it that he was made of ice? No, no, different belief. Okay. Another, another supernatural belief that Himmler would get involved in. Villagut believed that about himself is that his entire family line carried an unbroken chain of ancestral memories, Assassin's Creed style. I was about to say it.

You mean Assassin's Creed? Yes. He literally specifically means memories. He's not feelings like memories and how far back do they go, you wonder? Well, he has an answer for that. His genealogy went back to around 228,000 BC. Stop, dude, stop. When it was just pure ice over here?

Well, when Willa Gutton would actually say no. Because in his account, the Earth in that era had three sons. And it was populated by giants. Sorry. Three sons, populated. by giants and dwarfs and other beings alongside humans. Uh-huh. His own family, the Willa-Gut line,

descended from a union of air and water gods. A union of gods? A union of gods. And there had been a true, and there's like a true old Germanic religion, which he called urbanism, that got suppressed, buried and lost.

And he was the last living heir to that religion. And he could reconstruct it out of his, own head because he had genealogy memory powers. And how localized was this religion? Well, right, at this moment, Justin, with him. And you said it was a Germanic religion? An old Germanic religion that he remembers from his genealogy memories. So it's a Germanic religion that goes back farther than recorded history to a time

before man. The true old Germanic religion called urbanism. But Germans are such a small part of who lives on this planet. I struggle to understand how they could be Germanic so far back when Germany didn't even exist. Our history is wrong. No, I just want to point out for the record, if you want to know how cyclical this all is, go on TikTok and go look at those videos where it's like, actually, it's the year 1769. And we've been lied to about our history.

And it's like, what do you? You're stupid. You're stupid. You're a stupid person. They just need a leg up on on the, then everybody who's clearly doing something right compared to them. That's all it is. That's all.

If you need the world to be made entirely of ice and everything up there, ice, all ice, just to get up in the morning and get through your day, fine. Ice all ice, baby. It's all it is. But keep that shit to yourself for fuck's sake. This guy also at this point in time in his life had a little like group of mystics that he ran and he was very open about how other.

their groups of magicians and mystics were doing everything wrong. They were the corrupted version. He was doing the only real. Oh, like every magician. Like every magician. Correct. However, in 1924, things started coming apart for this guy completely. The records from that period, from that period rather, have moments, like, marked down

as him having violence in his life, violence at home, threats against his wife, alongside grandiose plans for greater purpose and behavior that started getting very alarming. He started getting very paranoid. And in November of 1924, he was involuntarily committed to an asylum in Salzburg. He was diagnosed with schizophrenia and megalomania. Really? Yeah. Yeah.

And a court declared him legally incompetent, which is a really serious legal finding at that time and still is today. and he was held for about three years before he would just be released in 1927. His followers were like, our leader is gone. They've taken him for what he knows. And in 1932, he would leave his wife and his family and move where else. The United States of America. Oh, yeah. And in September of 1933, at a conference, somebody introduced him to the man of the episode, Heinrich Himmler.

And Himmler, who still had the entire SS career ahead of him at this point, their meeting, listened to who was now a 66-year-old man, explain that he personally remembered prehistory through the memory DNA he shares with his ancient familial line, and Himmler didn't laugh. Him gave him a fucking job. He gave him a kiss on the mouth and cried. This been like, this is you of the man I've been looking for this entire time. I finally could feel even more important than I do now.

So much so, dude. Like, think about Willa Guts life up to this point, and he's like lost everything, gone to insane asylum. People laughing him. And he's about to be catapulted into being one of the most impactful members, members of that government. So he was already out of the asylum. He was in in 1924. He got put in. And they let him out in 1927.

And he was like, listen to my ideas. And he and, and Himler was like, aren't you that guy from the insane asylum? And he was like, yep. Anyway. Y'all. Himmler didn't know about any of that, dude. Because again, he spent another five or six years back at home with his wife before in 1932, choosing to leave his wife and his family and move to Germany. Then in 1933, at a conference, somebody introduced him to Himmler.

Himmler was like, I like what you're spitting, kid, even though he was 66 years old and older than Himmler, gave this guy a job. And then when Willigut went into the SS under the alias Carl, Maria Weistor. Himmler created a department for pre and early history inside the SS race and settlement main office specifically for this guy to be in charge of it. He was promoted to colonel, then eventually to Brigade Fierre, which is a general officer rank, and he was given money for archaeological digs at sites his visions pointed him toward.

Come on. So Hitler was like. A staff and a budget line he got to work with, dude. He was like, so Hitler was like, first things first. Everything up there. Ice. Second thing, second, if this guy has a dream, spend money. Yep.

Cool. Yep. That's exactly it. And this guy, and these guys almost took over everything. These guys almost took over the entire free world. Like, they did. According to the records we have for some of his day-to-day activity, most of it was just talking to Himmler about hidden history,

Atlantis, basically for as long as a old man wanted to ramble at Himmler, and Himmler just let him. That was the majority of this dude's day. It was just for fucking, it's insane. And Himmler liked it? Yes, Himler believed him. He was like, this is rich. He no, he believed him.

He actually believed him. Oh, God. I feel like sometimes I need to reinforce. something for you Alex I just I just tried to like put myself in the in the minds of these people and like understand like why this is why this is what's driving

them to do like these things that lead to like some of the worst things that have ever occurred on this earth in the history of mankind and the fact that these are the answers is like impossible for me to like fathom right now. A bunch of angry fucking losers. It's all it is.

So Willa actually like kind of left his finger print on some stuff that you might even recognize. Like, you would definitely recognize today. So he designed, he would go on to design the SS Tottenkopfring, which is the Death's Head Ring, the one Himmler person. Oh, yeah, he's the Skull guy. Yeah, okay.

This guy designed that. Himmler, he's the, are we the Batty's guy? Yeah. He, uh, the one Himmler personally awarded to officers he wanted to honor with a skull and runes on it. That's actually, that's Willigot's design work. And his business card was a whiskey bottle with a dollar sign instead of an S? Yep.

That's exactly clear. He worked on the runic symbols used on SS uniforms and insignia. He was heavily involved in developing the ceremonial side of the SS, the marriage rights, the naming rights, the funeral stuff. Basically every attempt to turn the SS into some religion replacement for the organization, this dude was hugely in fucking involved in. I guess, I mean, like, in a really diabolical way, the sinister nature of taking an organization and giving it a, like, better,

like it's more than just merely a group of men who serve the fewer we are chosen like it takes it to another level and it makes people more willing to do stuff because it's like this is your calling you are a part of this group we are better than ever like it really it's it's it's called in doctrine uniform in a shared purpose yeah yeah form in a shared purpose it's all people need to jump in it's the idea like once you're in you are now part of the group and as in the in group you are Like, even if you have questions, you never say that you have concerns. Never. And if you think about Nazis using, like, occult symbols to, like, carry out their will,

you know, actually literally doing it. It makes a lot of sense, like, people like that group of people that figured out the green stone, like, sort of, like, imagining that there's these, like, covens of dark magicians out there. Like, you remember when, uh, the, like, covens of witches were trying to, uh, curse Trump. Yeah. He ran for his second election and then they said, we can't get him.

He has a shield. It's weird. Isn't there something interesting about that? However, you know, that life at the top for Willigut wouldn't last too long because in November of 1938, Carl Wolf, who was Himmler's chief adjutant and about the second most powerful man in the SS at this point, decided to go pay a visit to Willigot's ex-wife. and she decided to tell him about the asylum he was in for a few years. That's all she told him.

She didn't tell him about the history, did DNA memories or any of that stuff? She just told him, yeah, he wasn't an insane asylum for three years. Don't fucking believe anything, he says. And that was basically the end of it. In February of 1939, his staff got notified that his application for retirement had been approved, even though he had not applied for retirement. And the retirement was backdated and made official in August of 1939, a few days before the war started. Himmler didn't abandon him personally, however, which doesn't super surprise me with

what Himmler was into. He sent a woman from his own household staff to go look after him. Willough had spent his last years moving around Germany with his runes and his magical practices and all that shit and actually got evacuated to Austria in 1943, was briefly picked up in question by the British at the end of the war, and then died in January of 1946 at 79 years old. in a refugee camp. That is so fucking crazy. That's like, like,

Hamler would have ran away with his AI. Yep. Yeah, like this is, he would have had AI psychosis. Yeah, this is crazy. That's basically what this is.

But like, the point I'm making with this guy, too, is like all that mystical stuff about all that magic and the mystics and witchcraft and ruins, this is the extent of it.

This dude, that's it. He showed up. He got involved in some of the, the actual, like, you know, ruins involved in SS stuff. Then they found out he was in an insane asylum, cleaned his hands of him. And then that was it.

He wasn't even present in the SS when the war started. Like, that's it. That's the extent of the magical involvement in the truth of the occult. It's very clear that, you know, everything you've said so far, the higher-ups were like, and I'm, you know, I don't want to make any equations to today about any sort of like vaccine lunatics. But if I wanted to get people on my side to control a country, I'm. I certainly would pick as many people as I could to get them in my weird cult and then use them

to the best of my ability and keep, you know, dipping back into that well over and over and over again to do so. And this is like they found a dude and I found another dude and they used both of them to achieve their goals. You know, it doesn't matter if you believe it or not. They were like, these guys are, you know, absolute crazy people, but a lot of people believe them so we're going to just use them and get them on our side. Yep, exactly.

So last week we talked about one of the few things that were real, which was the castle, Velfisburg. This place did actually get built and if you don't remember from last week to describe it, it's triangular, three sides, three towers. And as far as anybody can tell, it is the only triangular castle in Europe I learned, which is kind of a neat little fact. And I'd been sitting there for 300 years, basically just kind of falling in deterioration, falling apart.

And in 1815, the big round North Tower got hit by lightning and burned out, leaving essentially nothing but the outer walls left, which were two meters thick and weren't going anywhere. But in 1934, Heinrich Kimler took it over. And his stated purpose to take this place over was to start an SS Hogwarts, his own SS Leadership School. What do you mean SS Hogwarts? A children?

friendship school like a little no not dark children like immediately at the very least like it was just a place for them to train FSS officers like magically or militarily Oh I'm gonna get into it no but we'll get into I'm gonna get into it

The use of Hogwarts here throw me off I don't know what you mean Because in my mind you turn a castle into a fucking school Even if it's just an officer school It's an old castle my mind's like Hogwarts It's like Nazi Hogwarts

I'm sorry it's just a simple I think it's probably a simple connection that you wouldn't than you might expect but still there's some stuff going on here so yes that's all it was for the first couple years it was just an ss leadership school but his plans kept on growing and what they eventually grew into is very very strange his architect was a name a man named herman bartels and what bartels ended up drawing was a complex that would swallow up not just the castle but the entire village around it and which is a obviously considerably bigger idea than just renovating the castle.

The existing town of Velvysburg was to be cleared and the people who lived there moved out. And the whole thing would be laid out around the north tower, which had been hollowed out from the lightning strike. And that north tower would be marking the center of it. And Himmler called that tower the center of the world. Himmler basically put a lid on this place, which is keeping it very secret and quiet while he did work on it, which is one of the reasons the mythology around it kind of

it grew out the way it did. From 1935, nobody was allowed to visit without Himmler's explicit permission. And in 1939, he ordered that nothing about the castle was to be published at all. And there's a story, which I have not been able to verify all the way down, but it does come up a lot, is that at some point in the 1930s, he had a private safe built into the West Tower, but to this day, nobody has ever found it. Nazi trip like a cult Nazi treasure like an occult Nazi treasure safe built into the tower

that was named the center of the world we got to make a five season history channel show about that I would love the hunting down the vault at the center of the world like Oak Island vibes the vault at the center of the world yeah exactly it's like Oak Island vibes yeah but because nobody's found it I imagine it doesn't actually fucking exist

it of course because it's not much known it's the perfect container for myths and legends to just fill a void that people were curious about. Two rooms in that North Tower did get finished and both of them are still there to this day. And this is where I'd say the myth in the record touch tips

briefly. Oh, go on. Okay. The upper room is the overgrouping few hersalal which is the hall of the senior SS generals and it is a big circular room ringed with 12 columns and those

12 is doing exactly what we probably think it would be doing. These are Arthurian, like related the knights of the roundtable, but restaged and reinterpreted for the SS instead. And set into the floor of that room in dark green marble is a sun wheel with 12 spokes and the radiating coming out from the center. That's just the floor. This is where, remember last week we talked about the black sun mythology? Yes. This is the reality of that. This is where that comes from because there was the sun with the 12 race, but it's really referring to, not a black sun, but it's really referring to Arthurian legend.

It's referring to the Knights of the Roundtable and that these SS officers are sort of like the Knights of the Roundtable kind of like ranking. It's just so lame. It's like it's so lame. It's exactly like the Ku Klux Klan like Dragon. The Grand Wizard. Yeah. Like it's just like so embarrassing, dude.

Like God damn. So underneath that room is a second room in the base of the tower. And this room is simply called the crypt. It has a circular vault sunk into the ground with 12 pedestals arranged around the walls and a shallow depression in the middle of the floor. There's a gas line running to the center point, which strongly suggests that they were maybe doing like an eternal flame that was supposed to burn there. Like, you know, constantly feeding a gas.

And apparently the acoustics in it are extraordinarily, extraordinarily and clearly made deliberately because a whisper in that room will still carry. I love rooms like that. Yeah, that's an design for that thing. And what was it for based on the plans and on what the people around the project said was it was based around there for death. It was a memorial chamber, I guess. The idea appears to have been that when senior SS men died, something of them would

be kept and honored in that room. So that's why it's called the crypt. It was like ceremonial, whatever. But importantly, neither of them. those two rooms were ever actually used once. There's no, we have no record of any ceremony or ritual gathering, any of that shit. Just a lot. Anything happened because he probably didn't get to finish what he wanted to finish and

they never got built. It's like Hurst Castle, just like a fucking nerd. Yeah. Like somebody, somebody like who spends five years buying a bunch of gear for their YouTube channel, they never start. Yeah, exactly. So by 1938, the construction had stalled because the labor Himmler had been using got reassigned to fortification work on the western border.

And Himmler wanted his castle. So in May of 1939, he had about 100 prisoners brought in from Saxenhausen concentration camps to work on it. And they lived in a tent camp at first and then built up their own barracks that they would live in. That grew into a full camp on the edge of the village called Niderhagen. For a stretch, it was the smallest individual. independent concentration camp in the entire system, and its purpose was not production or profit driven.

It existed to supply labor for Himmler's vanity project. Himmler just kept getting exemptions from wartime construction bans to keep it going for a project with no military value whatsoever because it has to be stated. This was not an important strategic castle at all. He was literally building, like you said, his nerd castle. Like his VR chat set. Yeah. So the first large group brought in were Jehovah's Witnesses, and Niderhagen ended up holding the largest concentration of imprisoned Jehovah's Witnesses anywhere in the concentration

camp system. Later, they were Soviet prisoners of war who were treated the worst, along with political prisoners and four enforced laborers. About 3,900 people went through this camp, at least to be a lot of people. 1,285 of them died there just about a third of them. They died from 10 to 12 hour days of physical heavy labor on somewhere between 600 and 900 calories, which is obviously by the top, but just so you know, like listeners, that was obviously done by design.

The point was to keep prisoners weak, unable to rebel, unable to think, only barely operate, do the task that was given and survive another day. And from cold and from disease and being beaten to death is how most of the people in this particular camp died. This wasn't like an extermination camp. It's like some others. At least 56 people were executed on the camp grounds or at an SS shooting range in the woods nearby. And for a period, the camp served as an execution site for the regional Gestapo. And in 1942, they did build the crematorium specifically for the camp.

After Stalingrad, the construction finally got stopped and the camp was mostly dissolved with the remaining prisoners shipped to Buchanwald and a residual detail of about 42 men were left behind to guard the castle in the camp. American soldiers were reached Velfisburg on the 2nd of April in 1945 and freed the ones that were still there arriving just after an SS demolition team had tried to blow up the entire castle before America got there. They got word they were coming. So they were like, blow it all up and just tried to fucking explode the entire castle.

That is so embarrassed. That's so embarrassing in every way. It's literally the red skull. It's like the red skull. It's like the red skull except comic books don't exist. Superheroes don't exist. And magic doesn't exist. So it's just some guy in like a castle like one day the power.

Yeah, that's it. That's exactly correct. And so tragically, 1, 285 people died. so that this one dork of a man could have a room with a nice floor in it that he never ever used. Dude, that fucking sucks ass, dude. And that, like, that, again, like, it bears repeating.

That is the actual extent of Nazis' relationship with, like, occult magic stuff. Like, that's it. The mysticism didn't even really happen. It's all fiction. They were never used. That's fine. So on the 1st of July, 1935, Himmler met with a group of people at SS headquarters in Berlin

and founded an organization with a name that translates roughly to German ancestral heritage, society for the study of the history of primeval ideas. Everybody just shortened it to, and then there be. The other founders were Richard Walter Daray, who invented the blood and soil ideology and ran agricultural policy, and Herman Worth, a Dutch prehistorian. who was genuinely famous and who was deeply into the Atlantis idea. Verth got the presidency and a man named Wolfram Severs got the job of General Secretary, which is just like an administrative job.

And Severs is the one that we're going to be swinging back to a little bit at the center of this thing. The stated purpose was to promote the science of ancient intellectual history. What that meant in practice, though, was to go out into the world and find the evidence for what they had already decided was true. And when you already decide something is true, it's amazing that cherry-picked little facts. You can find out there that support the idea that your thing is true.

It's like the main thesis statement of this show. In this place, wasn't like a weird group of dudes and robes, man. Like this was something that would become an institute capital I with everything that that comes with. It had a president and a general secretary, like I said, and then would have departments and division heads, like it had a budget, it applied for grants from the government,

it published journals, it held its own conferences, it had the people in it had doctorates from real universities, and many of them kept their academic posts, even though this is the shit that they were fucking into in this thing. Like, the pseudoscience started getting out of control. It started to spin. Worth did not last. He got pushed out at the start of 1937,

and partly because he was not a good enough party man, because these guys loved to fucking party. And partly because... The fuck, dude. He was too obviously a crank even for this crowd. He also at one point produced a supposed ancient calendar disc from an expedition to Sweden that turned out to be a obvious forgery. So they kicked him out and they replaced him with Walter Worst.

And this guy was a dean at Munich University and an expert on ancient India and a much, much more respectable figure for them. And under him, the Anonurbe group got bigger and more professional looking to the public. And that made them considerably more dangerous to the world at large. We're not going to go over everything they did. There's a few just little things we'll talk about here because we're just going to kind of blitz through it. They excavated Externstein, which was a formation of enormous natural rock pillars in Germany.

looking for evidence that had been a great pagan Germanic religious center. They dug there for years. And surprise, they didn't find anything because it wasn't a center for ancient pagan Germanic religions. They also sent people to Scandinavia to document rock carvings, which produced genuinely useful archaeology records almost accidentally. They went to Bolivia. They planned expeditions to Iceland, to the Canary Islands, and to the Middle East. They studied runes, folklore, and place names, and folk songs, and traditional costume.

All of it aimed at establishing that everything worthwhile in the ancient world actually came from the North. Their ancestors, they were culturally appropriating. I just want to stress again, it was so crazy all of what they were doing that even the slightest chance that they discovered something of importance to them, FDR had to make his own team to go around and like counter their activities. Yeah. Like we said last week, like you said in episodes before. That's so crazy to me that this nonsense occurred.

They were like, well, I mean, if there's something we don't know. I guess we got to like, that's nuts. That's nuts. That's it. But like, that's because they didn't know where it was coming from. So they got to be like, well, maybe they know something we don't. Fuck. We need to at least look.

So once the war properly started, this group, this institute got a new job slapped onto it. Looting. They became a looting operation. As German forces moved into a country, a Nernibé, a Neneurbae, this group of people went in behind them. And after the soldiers left, they just took things. They just started taking scientific collections, museum stuff, library and archival material, archaeological artifacts, artwork, anything that could be folded into the story that they were building about dramatic prehistory that they took and plenty also that did not what's so messed up

is had they won the way it would have changed the history of the world like dramatically man it would have been fucking crazy they also as we've talked about on the show hunted the holy grail which is what everybody was hoping to get their hands on um there was a man named auto ron who was a young a medievalist obsessed with the Cathars, right? I say, Cathars. I just, I guess I don't understand. Like, it's so crazy to me that they stand for so little that they can say Christianity is bullshit.

Space is ice. But also say, we have to find the cup of Christ. Space is ice. Like, they stand for nothing except power. And it doesn't matter how they get power as long as they get it. And so they're like, yeah, no. Oh, like Jesus, if we can use Jesus great. If we can use space ice great.

If we can, like, it's so gross. And that does not change. You know, dudes like that have always existed and always will. Unfortunately true. So this guy, Otto Ron, this young medievalist was obsessed with, obsessed with the Cather's who were the heretical sect in southern France that got wiped out by a crusade in the 13th century. He's like those guys to think about the Roman Empire nowadays. Right.

Like that's the like he thinks about these guys constantly. He believed that the Caithers held the grail, and that the grail was not a Christian relic at all, but something even older and pagan. And he went crawling around caves in Montsegir in the Pyrenees looking for this thing. He actually found some tunnels and chambers, but nothing in them. And in 1933, he published a book about it called Crusade Against the Grail. And it sold terribly. But it did get read by Arborated. Our old buddy, Carl Willigate, of all people, who passed it up to Himmler, and Himmler summoned him and offered to what else, fund him.

So yes, there was an actual SS officer funded by the actual SS, actually out there looking for the actual Holy Grail. That part is not a lie. But he was just a fucking idiot. Yeah, he was just some dude named Otto Ron who was obsessed with the Cathars. I don't think. Like one of these dudes. was like, okay, a war is coming and I do not wish to fight. So I'm going to write the book and say,

the whole crowd is out there and then they'll send me to go get it. And I won't have to fight. Probably not even out of the question that that's what happened. I fully fully would believe that that actually did probably happen more than once. Surprise, Otto was a bad fit for the SS in just about every fucking way a person can be. He drank for one, which was he was heavily drunk, but also he was reportedly a gay guy, which was a death sentence if you're in the SS.

Not allowed. But if you're like cool and you're hateful and you're a piece of shit, they don't care. Yeah, you'll be one of the last ones to die. So that's pretty fun. Well, he got in trouble and at one point he got assigned to guard duty at Docow, which seems to be the thing that utterly reckoned. Tim. Oh, man. Poor him. I know. I know. He had to actually see something happened that he caused and had something to do with. Oh. Weird how when the people actually who are not around it actually see it,

it breaks them in some way. Oh. He resigned from the SS in early 1939. I wonder if he would make a TikTok video where he was crying about it. Absolutely. He had probably started a couple different times, a couple takes to get it right. Yeah. He was like, guys, I messed up. Bums me out so much thinking about like how like real that is. So in March of 1939 at 35 years old, he walked up into the mountains of Austria in the winter and never fucking came back. Rip.

People just assume he did that for suicide. Docco broke him that badly. And then we get to talk about the witch project, which honestly is like a smaller thing. I know. It's a lot of witch project sounds like an early 2000s movie. In fact, I think the Blair Witch Project literally. So starting in 1935, Himmler had a unit set up inside the SS security service with the job of researching the historical witch trials of Europe.

It was run by a young SS officer named Rudolph Levin, and it is usually called the Hexen Cartotech, the Witch Card Index, is the translation. And for years, they went to work. They went through trial records and church archives, secondary sources across Germany, basically any paperwork they could get their hands on all the way to England. and they filled out standardized index cards, one which trial case, one index card per which trial case, filed it by region and by name and then by detail. Tens of thousands of index cards were filed on these things.

Something of, on the, like in the records, somewhere around 30,000 cases of index cards were found. Like an actual archive of this shit, which is crazy. And pieces of it survived today. And historians apparently have actually used this for like cross-referencing stuff.

The purpose of it, though, was what else in a time of war? Propaganda. And the specific propaganda goal is what we're going to look at. Himmler's thesis decided before a single card got filled out was that the witch trials had been a deliberate campaign by the Christian church to exterminate the surviving carriers of not demonic witchcraft, but what else, the old Germanic pagan religions. That the women burned across Europe

were not victims of panic, but instead we're going to be turned into martyrs or casualties of a war against Germanic tradition waged by a foreign faith. What? Yikes. Yikes. Got that in your noggin, you have that?

Everybody's such a loser, dude. Once you have that, you have gotten argument for why Christianity is an alien imposition on the German people and why it should be replaced. Of course. Which is exactly what Himmler wanted to do. So the SS spent years building a serious card index about the murder of all these witches of women in order to argue that the church was the real problem. while the organization paying for the index was in the middle of doing way worship to other people. In April of 1938, five German men left for Tibet. The leader was Ernst Schaefer, who was a zoologist and an ornithologist,

and by all accounts, a genuinely talented naturalist who had already been to the region twice on American-funded expeditions before this one. With him went Ernst Krauss, an entomologist who handled the photography and the film camera. Carl Weinerd, a geophysicist, Edmund Geer, who ran logistics, and an anthropologist named Bruno Bezier. So everything is actually going to come down to this last guy, Bejer. The expedition was under an Anerunabey patronage, and there was friction right from the start. Because Schaefer wanted it to be his expedition, and the Anerneurnebay wanted to be. its name on the letterhead of this thing.

They wanted to claim that they were the reason this went through. What they settled on was that the official title put Schaefer's name in big old letters and the sponsorship in small ones, but both get right at the top. And the money mostly didn't come from the SS. Most of it came from German companies and from the German Research Foundation and from private backers, including the son of an American industrialist who had been on an earlier trip with Schaefer and, wanted to go back. They went in through Sakeem over the Nathulah Pass, and in January 1939,

they reached Lhasa, and they got there having been formally invited by the Tibetan government, which was the first time a German scientific group had actually ever been. And the ideology question, they were sent to answer was Himmler's, and it was, are there any Aryans up there? Is it because it was cold? Is it literally just because it was this hot? and cold and they were like, well, Aryans must be up there because that's where they live. Are we all agreed that space is ice by brothers? And mountains are as

close to space as possible. The thinking if you can't even call it that, was that the original Nordic race had come from somewhere in the high central Asia plateau and that if you went to Tibet and looked hard enough at the aristocracy,

you'll find the white people, you'll find the white people. You might. Find surviving physical evidence of the ancestral stock, baby. You'll find the white people in, in Asia, if you look. The amount of time and energy, people like this put into trying to prove lies and evidence to make their lies stick is insane. The amount of time and money and effort. Like literally, they said, well, like step one is we say a crazy thing.

Step two, find a way to prove it. And then they just throw cash and like people at it. And it's like this is the dullest thing. Like what do you mean? No. And the fact is because it's a weird culty thing, no one can say, guys, this is stupid. Like we could use this money. We're at war right now, fellas.

Like we, what do you mean? We just sent a bunch of money to send guys to Tibet. What are you talking about? It's nuts. Well, Himmler also had a secondary hope while they were up there. On top of finding the Ariens, maybe they'd also find some proof that world ice theory was real. Of course. Because the mountain.

Proof. What are they going to find a fucking ice cube? Like, what the fuck are we talking about? Proof of the ice theory is real. So while they were there, they had collected botanical and zoological specimens. Weiner took geomagnetic readings that were actually useful to some actual science later on. Kraus shot film of festivals and monastery life and daily practice. That is actual historical record of a Tibet that actually no longer.

exists anymore. And Schaefer observed sky burials and bought some human skulls while he was up there. Oh, of course. As one would do. And they came home with gifts for the leadership, including a llama's robe and a hunting dog for Hitler. Imagine being Hitler's hunting dog, dude. I'd be so embarrassed. Now, all I can think about is one of those like, you know, secret life of pet movies. And it's all the dogs. And they're like, so who, you know, who do you live with? And one guy's like, uh, never I don't want to talk about it. Don't they were all doing me about sucked. While they were off doing collecting all the stuff out in Tibet,

Bruno Bezier was doing his job what he was sent for. He was there to measure people. That was his assignment. Like cranial. Cranialometry. Yep. Yep. Yeah.

Cranometry and somatumatumatometry. Somatometry. Somatometry. Skull dimensions and facial dimensions and body proportions. just the most racist possible shit possible. Exactly correct. Take photographs, use calipers to measure. He recorded full measurements on 376 people.

He took plaster casts of the heads and faces and hands and ears of 17 more. And he took fingerprints and handprints from another 350. And the way he got access is he presented himself as a doctor. He handed out medicine. He treated people who were sick. He even treated monks who had sexually transmitted infections. and in exchange for the care he was giving them, people let him put the calipers on their head

because who gives a fuck? You want to measure my head, that's fine. Physical anthropology of that kind was more normal at the time. Americans and Italians and plenty of others were doing the same thing on almost exactly the same kinds of expeditions. And the Harvard trained anthropologist

on one of Schaefer's earlier American trips took cast two. so like America was doing it. Like we everybody was fucking doing it. They were measuring skulls taking plaster casts. So as far as he was concerned, he was just doing his job. And they came home in August of 1939, a week before Germany invaded Poland. And they were met at the airport by who else?

The grand nerd himself, Heimler, personally. Much to Himmler's disappointment. They did not find Aryans in Tibet. They also found no proof of world ice theory. You hate to see it. I know. They found no hint. Kingdom also a hope Himmler had.

They were hoping that they would find Shambala or Agartha. Didn't find either of those. No ancient technology that they maybe would have found in the dirt. None of that popped up. Not even a fucking Yeti. It's like when you go, it's like when you go on Reddit and somebody has a movie theory, but they

like forget to remember that it like has to be in the movie for it to be like a real theory. And it just goes and goes and goes and you're just like, what? Where did you where did you? Why? Why did you decide that was real? So while it may have been a complete bust for them on their return, Bruno came back still with the skill of measuring human beings and classifying them by race. And in two years, they were going to find a use for that. Once the war started, an Annenurbae changed.

The archaeology and the folklore and the rune studies didn't stop. But a new thing got built inside the organization. And it was called the Institute for Military Scientific Research. Wool from Severs, the administrator from 1935 we talked about. He ended up being the head of this thing and running it. And the Institute, what it did was, what it did is human experimentation in the concentration camps. That's what this was. At Dachau, there was a Luftwaffe, a doctor named Sigmund Rasher, who conducted experiments on prisoners on behalf of that Institute, on freezing and high altitude in order to produce data for the German Air Force.

people fucking died. Innocent people died in these experiments. That was the whole point of the experiments as well. We talked about Unit 731 a long time ago. That kind of shit. We don't need to get into the nitty-gritty details. But that kind of shit was going on. The same institute was involved in feeding mescaline to prisoners to just see what it did.

And then it would collect human skulls. December 1941, Bruno went to Seavers with a proposal. His argument was an anthropological angle of an argument in the vocabulary of the profession he had been being employed for. He said that there was no proper reference collection of Jewish skeletal material and that the opportunity to obtain one was going to close and that science required it. Because they were losing the war at this point. This is so whack, dude. The figure discussed was around a, around 120 is what he wanted. He was working with an anatomist named August Hurt, who ran the anatomy institute at the newly established Reich University in Strasbourg and who wanted the collection for the same reason.

The stated end product was a display, an anthropological exhibit that would demonstrate the racial characteristics of a people after that people had been eliminated. He was literally planning basically a museum presentation to commemorate the extermination after they wiped out Jewish people. It's insane. Insane. In 1943, Bruno went to Auschwitz and selected 115 people, men and women. He selected them the way he had learned to select

while he was in Tibet. He used his measurements and the calipers and by physical classification. Then they were transported to Knottweiler Strutoff and they were killed there. At least 86 people died in order to become a teaching collection that never obviously fucking got used.

Thank God. Allied forces reached Straussberg and found the remains at the Anatomy Institute. August Herc killed himself in June of 1945. Wolfram Severs was tried at Nuremberg at the doctor's trial, and at that trial, a witness testified that Severs had privately found the whole business repellent and had not wanted any part of it, which is either true or exactly what you would say for a friend on his trial for his fucking life, so you're probably lying about it, and I don't believe a word. regardless, Severs was convicted and he was hanged in June of 1948, getting the end he deserved. It's a solid regardless. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Oh, well, tough, man. Yeah, fucking fuck off. He deserved to get hanged. Bruno went to trial in Germany in 1970. He was convicted as an accessory to murder in 86 cases. He received a three-year sentence suspended. He served no time, and he lived until 2,000. nine and he died at 98 years old.

That's absolutely fucking embarrassing. I am still surprised, like, no matter how many times I do episodes like this, I am always surprised by some of the people who just get away with shit. I'm not surprised. In their grasp, in prison, 86 counts of murder, 86. Just makes me sad. What's even crazier is knowing.

Like deep down, these dudes genuinely thought they were doing a good thing, where they were like, guys, we can't kill them all. Because if we do, we'll lose all this history. We have to kill a bunch of them and save the parts. Because for science, guys, come on. Like, you know, they thought they were doing like, they thought that they was like, we are doing a good for the world. Like, that's crazy.

It's absolutely like It's absolutely like Unhinged scary Fucked up Yeah yeah All of the above Again this institute Like this is what it really was doing

Right like all these pagan Anti-Germanic religions All there was an excuse Just to do horrifying things In the name of a history That did not exist And as we wrap to the end of this On the 10th of May

1941 Rudolf Hess the deputy furor The third most important man in Germany at this point, got to a plane by himself and flew to Scotland. He was trying to broker peace with Britain on his own authority, which he did not have at the time. He crash landed and was captured immediately. And when the British interrogated him, he told them that his mission had come to him

through a dream and through supernatural direction. He had a personal astrologer that he had consulted. And he spent the next 46 years in custody and ended up dying and spanned out prison. in 1987. And Hitler, when he found out, fucking went through the roof. He lost his mind. And the explanation that got assembled for what had happened to Hess is what we're going to look at real quick.

Martin Borman, who had been Hess's bureaucratic rival for years and who took his job, put it down to political fortune-telling. Goebbels agreed and wrote in his diary that the whole obscure swindle was finally getting rooted out and the miracle men were going under lock and key. Basically, this was his excuse to get rid of all these weird esoteric religious stuff. They took this opportunity as a war was coming down to root out all of this occult shit. So in this moment, while this guy got kidnapped, he crashed landed, they banned the lodges. They banned the esoteric organizations.

And they went out and arrested the occultists of Germany. Astrologers, fortune tellers, clairvoyant, spiritualists, graphologists, parapsychologists, faith healers, occult publishers, the whole ecosystem that was initially rooted in Nazism when it was born, hundreds of people arrested. Some accounts put it above 600 people. Occult books got pulled and occult publishing got shut down. And one of the people caught up in it was Carl Ernst Craft, who was an astrologer, the regime,

had actually been using for propaganda work, writing favorable readings of Nostradamus for psychological warfare against the Allies. This guy was in and out of prison for the next. three years and in January of 1945 while being transported to Buchanwald he died of typhus. The regime's own astrologer died on a train to a concentration

camp which again they always come for you by the way you pitch yourself as like the racist ice people and now like you're all being rounded up the leopards are coming for you now as it always fucking goes the crackdown was inconsistent

and it was nowhere near total and a good chunk of it was a political knife fight with Borman and Goebbels using the moment to hurt Hess's people and settle old political scores that were happening in the background of all this stuff. And a lot of those arrested got released fairly quickly. But it didn't stop the regime from using the stuff when it found it convenient either. In September of 1942, German naval intelligence approved the creation of a pendulum institute in Berlin on the theory that the British were finding U-boats with dousing rods, which they were not,

but they were using radar, but they didn't know that. So they were like, they must be using magic. Let's create a divining thing. Yes. All right. All right,

okay. They thought they were using dowsing. So they created this. All while they're arresting people who were actively doing this. So the message is mixed. What they ended up doing was laying out a big map of the Atlantic Ocean on a table,

put a tiny toy battleship on it, and dangled a small metal cube on a string over the top. Hell yeah. If the pendulum moved, they concluded there was a real ship out there. Badass. And when Mussolini got arrested in 1943, the SS put together a team of about 40 astrologers and tarot card readers and pendulum dowsers to try and locate him, which Walter Schellenberger later complained had cost the organization of fortune. Just like, so that's the thing is like, again, on the outside, they're arresting all these people, but on the inside, they're still kind of leaning on it. Yeah.

It's so bizarre. So as we keep going, when the occult, like I said, Nicole got funded when it was useful, arrested when they needed somebody to blame. Last week, I told you a story that was completely fabricated, and I showed you who built it. This week, I told you a pile of things that are completely documented. And the question that connects them is the one that I kind of been talking about in the early episode, which is what any of the mysticism actually explains.

Like, does the mysticism? Does the magic? It actually explain some of of Nazism, the rise of it and whatnot. And I think my answer after all of this is no, it doesn't. It explains nothing. It was just a fucking crutch they fucking leaned on. It could have been any nerdy thing

that they were all obsessed with. Like you could go back, like go back and listen to the episode again. Listen to any of this and tell me any of the occultist practices, expeditions they went on. They don't seem to care that much about it. Yeah. What did it produce? How did it change?

the course of of Nazis rise other than it diverted money away from probably like what probably like hurt them more than anything and the doctrine didn't seem that important compared to the aesthetic exactly yeah it's all about the aesthetic for the for himler that's it it was just about that for him the biggest nerd in the world who hated it was just a bureaucrat doing paperwork just wanted to build himself a nerd castle and for some reason had heard ice the The universe is made of ice. And I'm descended from Nordics, believed it before ever doing any research on it.

And that is what drove him through to and in the SS, be one of the most consequential people of World War II. We're the dumbest. We're the dumbest people ever. Humans are the dumbest. I come down to that same fucking thought too. The truth is, while yes, there wasn't a cult. And yes, the America did have to put together a small group to be like,

I don't know, maybe they're on to something. When you finally have the details, it's all fucking stupid. This is why aliens do not come to Earth, y'all. I don't care what anyone says. This is the reason they're like, they're like, y'all stupid. They're like, get them out of here. It's nuts.

And that is the Nazis and the occults in two part gentlemen. Hope you feel more educated, more enlightened, and more disappointed in humanity. You're just tired, yeah. Just physically and mentally tired in a sad way. Yeah. So keep aware of the people who kind of run this thing. If you're going to take any lessons from these past two episodes to today,

look at the people who are in charge. RFK Jr., all these people meet the same criteria that these people did back in the day. A singular belief in something that is not true driving their every action. And as dumb as it is to us right now, just imagine, just imagine how dumb it actually is that we won't learn about for years to come. The insane, stupid bullshit that is happening right now in our country in the world is probably living up to shit like this. It's so much worse than we even know.

Yeah. Thank you all so much for listening. We're off to go do a minisode over at patreon.com slash shluminati pod. We appreciate you all so much. We will see you next week with a brand new episode. We love you. Goodbye. Me and my wife were sitting outside indulging on our porch one night and enjoying ourselves.

I needed to go to the bathroom so I stepped back and said, and after a few moments, I hear my wife go, holy shit, get out here. So I quickly dash back outside. She's looking up in the sky in the fall. I look up to you, and there's a perfect line of dozen lights traveling across the sky.