Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 61 - The Roswell Incident - Part 3

Episode Date: July 28, 2020

The end to our deep dive into Roswell. Patreon - http://www.patreon.com/chilluminatipod BUY OUR MERCH - http://theyetee.com/collections/chilluminati Soundcloud - @chilluminatipodcast Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - http://www.youtube.com/user/ThatOneLaserClown Art Commissioned by - http://www.mollyheadycarroll.com Theme - Matt Proft End song - POWER FAILURE - https://soundcloud.com/powerfailure Video - http://www.twitter.com/digitalmuppet

Geico presents daily affirmations. Repeat after me. We can overcome any challenge. We can overcome any challenge. Like when we left our interior lights on and our battery died. Like when we left our interior lights at the... What? Good thing Geico's got emergency roadside service.

Available 24-7 on the Geico app. Good thing Geico has emergency roadside. Now, we feel very relaxed. I feel a bit tuckered out, actually. Uh, am I still supposed to be repeating after you? Oh, no, not at night. To manifest car insurance made easy, go to Geico.com. Hello, everybody, and welcome, welcome to the Chiluminati podcast, episode 61.

As always, I am one of your hosts, Mike Martin, and joined by my two co-hosts, Jesse Cox and Alex Fasciani. Hello, boys. What is up? What is up? I don't know, man. What's good? A lot, a lot.

A lot is up. A lot's good. A lot is up. I feel like the past week, like in the paranormal world, shit's popping off again. What do you mean? It's been like seven weeks in a row where there's been like one article that comes out that's like, disclosure.

Yeah, yeah, it's really just, they're just like tinkling and very gently sprinkling into our faces. It doesn't seem like anything weird to me. What are you talking about? What do you mean? They had the article had to like be retracted because they said Harry Reid said one thing, but he didn't say another. On top of that, a bunch of papers came out.

Did you listen to the podcast, the JRE podcast with George Knapp? Nope. And that is great. I don't, I don't really listen to JRE at all, but I listened to his alien episodes because those are the better ones. And George Knapp is fascinating to just listen to talk anyway. Great, great, great, great, great one. But there's all kinds of new papers that have just been released as well,

including the ATIP, but obviously the official acknowledgement that, yes, they still actually do have a UFO program going on, even though they've been denying it for the past two years. Yes, that's still going on. On top of that, in some of the papers, they is even they're doing like implant studies, like biomechanical things that are pulled out of others that they're studying and trying to figure out what the hell they are. So it's just stuff, more stuff that's being put out there.

It's like, yes, OK, yes, you got us. These are real. We're we're studying it. We don't know what it is, but we're studying it. This this is where it's getting there. It's getting there big time. This is anything. Listen, if I was like, it's anything. I my fantasy nerd would love to the whole government to have treaties with the aliens to be true.

The realist in me says the government knows as little as we do, like they're chasing these things and they might know a little more because they have a little bit more like direct footage of them on like their airplanes or whatever. But my my guess is they genuinely just don't know. They don't know don't know what the hell they are and what the hell they've been doing and why they keep popping up. I believe that more likely than anything.

If I believed any of these things, I would believe that they had no clue rather than like it's a grand conspiracy, right, right. We're more likely to be. I thought it was one of the things that we've talked about before. What if we're just like a like an agricultural planet? George Knapp said, like, what if we're just being bred to be like a whole planet? It's just like a big ass cow. Yeah, it's like their planet.

And we're just like their cows that they just kind of. It's like a meta level of slurping that we weren't even ready for. Don't that's oh, boy. You know, I'm just going to hand that to you because that was incredible. There's some exciting new merch development. It's been a while since we've had new merch. Yeah, this is a good stuff. Now we're really on it.

Listen, we know you know us, right? You know us. We like we like to give you guys what you want in exchange for money. You know what I mean? And we got short pins. It's the sound that it makes when you scoop out a cow's butt when you're an alien. And now we have your parents when you buy it. Let them know.

Let them know that that we thank them in advance for letting for letting them for letting you use their credit cards. And if they still have your listens, I can tell you, but the majority of our listeners are twenty seven to thirty four. Those people don't. I'm not thanking them. That's everybody buys stuff every day. I'm not trying to thank everybody.

I'm just saying the kids who we can get at, you know, what really Hollywood thinking here? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And and if you have any good will with your parents left over, head on over to patreon.com slash shilluminati pod where you can support us every month, keep this lights on here at shilluminati HQ. Not only do you get these fine episodes each and every week now, not only do we have staff researchers, not only do we have merch for you guys all the time, but also even after this episode,

every episode that we ever do, you get 15 more minutes of episode right after more shilluminati right now, patreon.com slash shilluminati pod. And one last patreon announcement. We're also going to be adding an additional benefit of a twenty dollar tier. Every month, you're going to get a piece of original digital art poster themed around one of the topics we did starting in August. And I'll let you know right now. The poster is designed around Roswell, but the three of us there.

It's $20 here, right? Being boy, being boy is coming, being boy is coming. But we got to break his story coming in one of the and one of the posters. So that's going to see the bean boy. We need that. We need that story. Yep. Yep. The bean boy is slowly spreading. He's working his way onto the Internet. And we need that as much. We need that as a t-shirt.

We got new t-shirts on the way as well. We can't really I don't want to spoil it. Those are yet because they're still in the works, but that's on the way. Don't you freaking worry. I support that over slurp. Sure. Things are great. Go get a short. It's it's it's wiping across the world. You know what I mean? It's a phenomenon.

And if an alien tries to abduct you, they'll see the pin and go, this one's already been slurped and they'll put you back and it'll be fine. Maybe they'll just check your butt first before. Maybe it's possible. It's a metaphor. It's, you know, it's it's a scoop in your butt. It's a metaphor. There's a lot going on with the short pin. And, you know, it works on a lot of different levels.

And I think that's two colors. Yeah. Do you like your shopping green or in like a is it pink or purple? I can't remember which it's green and pink. Yeah. Well, if you like a red or pink, I just got mine today. They look frickin great. You should. I don't know if they sent you Jesse's as well. I think I told him to send them Jesse's to yours with yours. Oh, now I got it. Now I got to hang out with Jesse.

Yeah. Oh, we got to hang out. I'll never see that pin. It's lost to me forever. We're going to have to slope it off my butt. So, yeah, go get those pins and go check out the tier 20. You're going to have a sweet poster art every month. And we're going to be the the the artists. We're going to be sourcing from the community, actually, everybody who's we're going to be commissioning people from the community

to help design some stuff. So it's some sweet, sweet stuff. Well, I think that's it for Shillin, right? I think we can dive into this episode. This is it, boys, the finale of the Roswell Incident trilogy. A big thank you to Deanna, the assistant researcher who helped me out on this one. And a big happy birthday as well. Happy birthday, Deanna. Couldn't have done this without you.

Today, we actually get to dive into what I was telling you prior. We finally get to talk a little bit about the fabled MJ 12, the Majestic 12, who they are, if they're real. Now, there's a lot of stories, very fantastical stories about who the Majestic 12 are, but we're going to stick to what we know to be fact, like literal, hard, physical proof of whether or not they exist because going into anything other than that just leads into. I mean, we already are kind of veering into it.

Did it happen? Did it not? Majestic 12 is even more gray than a lot of the Roswell stuff. Grace, is that what you said? It's even more grace. Grace, grace, potential future humans traveling through space with gravitational engines, propulsion systems. But that's the conversation for another time. On top of that, we're going to talk about the big boom of UFO sightings

that really happened throughout the fifties and sixties before kind of slow and I don't want to say slowed down, but became a little bit less of a popular topic along the way. And that's it. We're going to leave it there. Obviously, with the theories, we're going to talk all about the theories. Don't worry. So with that said, let's talk about the Majestic 12. Do you know much about the Majestic 12, Alex or Jesse?

I mean, I know roughly what they are. I've never like gone. I've never crossed the line into like, you know, true believer status on this, but I know that the Majestic 12 is like when you say those words, you're like signaling to another fellow conspiracy theorist that you are drinking the big juice. It's like the first. Yeah, it's like the next deepest tier within Roswell, because if you believe

the Majestic 12 exists or the Magic 12 or the MJ 12, you also have to then believe it's because of Roswell that they exist. It was Roswell, the Roswell event that sparked the creation of the super secret group of a mix of big, big wigs within within the government. Anybody from military to scientific to all kinds of intelligence fields filled out these these 12 seats within the Super Special Council. Yeah, it's like the Iron Man of the Roswell Cinematic Universe. You know, it's like, yeah, it's like the government Avengers,

which is never a good time. But but really, that's what they were just they were plucked from the CIA, NSA, FBI, Defense Intelligence, anything you name that could be a powerful, influential wing of the government. That's where these people ended up coming from. And you might wonder, well, where the hell did this? Where did the MJ 12 come from? And that's where this is why the MJ 12 are even questionably real.

They only come from one piece of physical evidence, only a single piece of evidence exists to help to even suggest their existence. And that was because something emerged in December of 1984, a plain white envelope bearing zero return address. Only an Albuquerque, New Mexico postmark arrived at the home of an LA movie producer by the name of Jamie Chandra. Chandra, you know, Obama got one and Hillary got one. Well, somebody else did get one later on a few years later.

However, it's important to note that this particular director, if you don't know who they are, they were well known at this time. This is the 80s to have been working with a UFO investigator, Bill Moore. So he was already within the UFO world, which already throws a layer of doubt onto whether this stuff is real. So he gets this envelope and within it contains the following. A can of black and white 35 millimeter film, which when developed, revealed eight pages of purported briefing paper for President Melek,

then Dwight Eisenhower, dated the 18th of November, 1952. It described the discovery, recovery and preliminary analysis of what remained from the crash in Corona, New Mexico. This obviously being the crash that we discovered. Right. Or Chandra and along alongside St. Friedman, as Friedman is one of the authors of the one of the books that we ended up using as a source for these episodes, then spent two years trying to figure out if these documents were real,

if there was any validity to them or if they were just a giant like art project that somebody started to or was doing or something to just try and fool others, because that's another thing within this world. It's like a lot of people are constantly trying to pull one up on other people. However, over after those two years, they could not conclusively determine if it was a hoax or if it was real. Then another copy of the document ended up emerging. It was sent to an English UFO writer by the name of Timothy Good,

who was at the time preparing a book about governmental involvement with UFOs. So his copy came a few years later in March of 1987. He included it with the book Above Top Secret, which was published in England in May of that year. That more in Chandra released a censored version of the document in question. That to me is the two facets of ufology. Yep. The one where they got the exact same document and they spent two years researching it and they're like, well,

we all know what to do with this. We can't prove it's real. And then the other guy is like, I'm putting it in my book. It's a book. Yeah. He's a UFO researcher. Yeah. Yeah. And the other one's a freaking movie director. But even then, whatever they the versions they released

were both redacted versions in the first place anyway. Do we count as like UFO researchers now? I don't know. I'll be the greatest honor. If there's somebody out there who can dub us official UFO researchers. I don't think that's how it works. Although I think it does. I think you can just say it and you are. Well, move on.

Just fuck. They're gone, dude. Did you hear about the tragedy it moved on? No. No. Oh, the CEO got pulled for basically being a pedo. Oh, I was soliciting sex from a 13 year old. God, damn it. Oh, that move on is going to go. They need to go. They need to just fucking disappear. Bye.

I can't. There's an opening for legit UFO people out there now. So maybe the Trilluminati can fill it in. I still question whether legit UFO people is a real thing, but OK. I feel like Diana counts as a UFO researcher at this point. Diana at the very least should count. Yeah, I'm with it.

She and we by proxy sort of by proxy. No, I'm not my proxy. I didn't listen. My tongue like slipped for no reason. It was just like it was like a stone. Don't talk back. It's like a stone skipping across the water. It just starts scatting instead of doing the podcast.

OK, moving on later on in nineteen. That's still saying in nineteen eighty seven. This is the reason Mufon came into my head in nineteen eighty seven. Mufon had a symposium at the American University in Washington, D.C. More and Shandria released the full document, though the lack of verification made it the subject of tons of rumors, denials and accusations at the symposium.

But they were released at least in nineteen eighty seven. The immediate reaction to the Eisenhower briefing was that it was a hoax citing discrepancies in the form of the document typeface official jargon and so on. So basically people kind of compared this document to other official documents that had been easily accessible at the time and nothing really was matching up. So what you're saying is the guys who spent two years researching and found

nothing and weren't UFO researchers were in fact smarter than the UFO researcher who threw his book. I want to say smarter if I may retort. They did that all on purpose, Jesse, so that anybody who may have come across the document could then they could cast out on it and disregard it and make sense or hide their existence, say it makes sense. It makes sense.

Parasy theories are the realm of stupidity. We could all be right now. This is why if you dabble in conspiracy long enough, you become a full fledged idiot. This is going to be a dream that we're living in now. You know what I mean? Like, wake up, just because you have evidence doesn't mean that's nonsense. It's maybe you went to bed in nineteen eighty three and you're just still sleeping.

And this is just one and this is just one. Every time you go to sleep in your life, you live in a high dream. Reality is totally subjective. It doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. You don't get it, man. Of course, this could be a dream, but I'm still living it. As you know, I'm with you on that one.

So like if we so like if we came to the realization going back to aliens that we were just nothing. We were like a freaking agricultural farm people, whatever, man. Just let me play my video games and I've said for years, I would be cipher in the matrix. You're just like people are just like, why don't you want to wake up like what the hell would I care? I'll eventually be dead. So I'd rather have like I'd rather eat fake mine steak and have my brain

is telling me it's delicious steak. If you're going to use Uber Eats, if you're going to use Uber Eats, you might as well go in the fucking matrix. You know what I mean? Like what the fuck are you doing? Like you've already broken down society in every way. Like you've reduced your life to NPC from Death Stranding. So you might as well just go in the fucking matrix.

You know, what the hell do I care? I'm not going to like, oh, no, we got to fight against the robots. So just Keanu Reeves can become Jesus. I could vaporize all of them. Yeah, vaporize every last one. And then they'd be like, damn you, Jesse. And I'd be like, sorry, Trinity, I love steak. Click. Is it with you?

Is it with you that we have the debate about what switch actually sounds like? No, what? You're like, she's she's like a cowboy. Yes, yes. She if you watch that movie, every line she says, I don't know what her accent is, but she she goes, no. Damn you, Cypher. She's like Eastern European or something.

Yeah. She's not like that. Yes. Damn. Yeah, no, there's not like that. Damn you, Cypher. No, Cypher. Oh, you.

Get away from them. Control, Cypher. I can't believe you saw me out for a steak, Cypher. So, bitch, I would have. I would have sold them all out for that sweet, sweet sirloin across the UFO in episode two. Damn, the aliens. So let's talk a little bit about the document itself, what it contained and what the discrepancies may or may not have been

regarding the form specifically in a letter to private UFO enthusiast, Lee Graham, a former CIA official by the name of Richard Bissell, the head of the U2 and Bay of Pigs program. That's right before. Oh, God, there's a U2 joke there. And then I immediately forgot the lead singer's name before Bono. Yeah. Before Bono, it would have been this guy and the edge of your tongue.

Yeah. The edge of my tongue. Freaking zoom lag got my my thunder stolen. It's a comedic timings off. It's it fucks you up, dude. All right, we can move on. We got to we got to deal with zoom in these COVID like times. It's the official Richard Bissell at the time.

Again, the head of the of the U2 and Bay of Pigs operation said, quote, the document certainly looks authentic on the basis of the material you've sent me. I personally have little doubt that it is authentic. Similar testimony was given to Friedman from Truman Administrative Assistant David Stowe and from one time National Security Council Planning Board member Robert R. Bowie. So on top of the idea that there are people like there's discrepancies, doesn't match a lot of the other legal stuff.

There are people who have been within the government, higher ups and whatnot, people who are heads of actual programs that were also the center of conspiracies until they were released, realized to be true, that they said it just looks authentic to them, the paper. However, let's look, let's talk a little bit about the writing style of the document. The material was allegedly written by Admiral Roscoe Hillen Cotter, who was identified on the second page of the briefing, though that does not necessarily mean that he wrote the briefing in its entirely.

He could have roughed out an outline, had another staffer, obviously, kind of put it together and basically have an intern do the hard work for them. And funnily enough, as our Deanna does make note, kind of like how the relationship between researcher and presenter can work sometime. You love to see it. You do love to see it. The briefing was given to linguistics expert Dr. Roger Westcott of Drew University in New Jersey.

Shout out Drew University. My brother went there and graduated from there with a drama degree. I don't know if that really matters. I knew a man named Drew. I know the same thing. I had a drama degree. And what do you know, that's true. I don't know about Drew University.

A university. And if he was there, wouldn't it have been Drew University? I'm mind blown, dude. I can't handle these truths that you're dropping on. That's why I'm making a mistake. And you guys are eating that slop with the mouse or whatever hell his name is. And he's like, it's all chicken. You want to buy some dead sticks?

So it was brought to the sky because what he was able to do with this was actually compare this note to 20 other examples of Hill and Cotter's notes and memos from the past. So he looked at the note that was supposedly written by them and then took 20 other examples and compared them. His end feeling about the whole thing was, quote, in my opinion, there is no compelling reason to regard any of these communications as fraudulent or to believe that any of them were written by anyone other than Hill and Cotter himself.

This statement holds for the controversial presidential briefing memorandum of November 18th, 1952, as well as for the letters, both official and personal, end quote. Now, again, obviously doesn't mean that he did it, but another another person who looked at it did come for obviously come in who compared it said it looked real enough to him. I don't know. That's good enough. I mean, for me, that's a thing, right? It's like it doesn't match like other government official things.

But it's so many limbs you guys are out on right now. You got to see what this is going. I don't like these. OK, at least the people who are who are reading them are not no but it's like heads of CIA programs, right? They could also just be saying it's so to so this information. Who knows? That's like a real that's like a real problem, actually, actually correct.

Yes, like people who are like spies and stuff like that, like half of their job is just being like, are you lying to me? Like it sucks. Yeah. So would you like to know, gentlemen, who is part of the M.J. 12? One hundred dollars. I mean, one hundred percent. Yes, one hundred dollars, one hundred dollars at patreon.com. Session Luminati pot.

There is no hundred dollars here. But hey, man, if you give us one hundred dollars, we'll give you the list. We'll say we'll say you're on the Majestic 12. You're in the Majestic Bakers. Doesn't. Yeah. First is Rear Admiral Rosco H. Hillen Cotter, no surprise there. First, director of the director of the CIA.

Second, Dr. Vannevar Bush, chairman of the Joint Research and Development Board. Third, James V. Forstall, first secretary of defense. General Nathan F. Twinning, commander of the United States of America Air Force Air Material Command of right field. And there was General Hoyt Vanderbilt, chief of the Air Staff. Dr. Detlev Bronk, chairman of the National Research Council. Dr. Jerome Hunsake, chairman of the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics.

Sydney Sowers, first executive secretary of the National Security Council. Gordon Gray, assistant secretary of the Army. Donald Menzel, chairman, department of astronomy. Lloyd V. Berkner, executive security of Research and Development Board. Major General Robert M. Montague, commanding officer of the area that included the White Sands Proving Grounds, which is an area that UFOs popped over quite often. And the outlier among the list of America's top military,

intelligence and scientific communities is Donald Menzel, who was best known for three books in which he ridiculed UFOs and those who took them seriously, the poster boy for anti-UFO movement. But research by Friedman, though, papers housed at Harvard revealed Menzel's involvement in high level CIA and National Security Agency operations for many years, including work in the code breaking field. So he's an agent. He is an agent for CIA, but not with an official title.

I thought you were saying he was he was not a government employee. And I was like, what? Well, he wasn't officially. He was just kind of he's worked with them, though. So he's not actually a government agent. He doesn't have a badge. Correct. Correct. And that's why he's kind of the the stickler. He's the one that's kind of outlier amongst those.

And that's your majestic 12. That's them. They're very exciting people. Beyond that, it just kind of talks a little bit about the document. And basically, what the document boils down to, we're not going to really go through it being breaking down too much because we a lot there. But basically, it just kind of describes the idea that what we talked about in episode two, there are bodies that crash wreckage

and they were able to recover actual wreckage. More like talking about how they're going to kind of cover up what what's been happening. There's actually this. This is supposedly Eisenhower's briefing. This is actually a document. Written by Eisenhower. No, no, written by the head of M.J. 12, the what's his name?

Hill and Cotter Hill and Cotter. OK. Hit and collar written for Eisenhower upon his entry into the White House. Correct. All about the crash and all that other stuff. It talks about the bodies that were laying out. They in the document, it actually says that the bodies were actually laying out in the outside for a week. They weren't out there for just a night or two. Like the the stories that we we got kind of say

talking about that they desperately tried to reverse-engineer the wreckage and try to dissect bodies, that kind of stuff, the stuff that we kind of, you know, touched on a little bit. And that's really all it boils down to. Other than that, they just talk about at the end of the of the document, they just talk about how after that event, UFO activity ramped up and it's been at a higher at a higher level of activity than it ever has been before.

And that's what the M.J. 12 in the document is. That's the literal only physical evidence that we have. They might even exist if you even buy that it's not a hoax. There's not any mention of the phrase majestic 12 anywhere else. Nowhere else. That's it. That's it. That's that's all we have. Damn. And obviously, you've got people going wild. There's been documents out there that people claim are majestic 12 documents,

but there's been no way to prove it. Sometimes there's like a little hidden away M.J. 12 markers on some papers that people say they find. It's none of it is as verifiable as the problem. And so you can't. You can't take any of it without a great, a giant grain of salt. I'm just imagining 12 of the cigarette smoking man all just like sitting around a table, right?

Me too, looking at each other and like not really saying anything. Yeah, very, very control-esque. And even Galleon, if you've ever watched that anime. Yes, yes. The circle of like higher ups. The big ass table. Yeah. Yeah. It's that it's that kind of feeling is it's very, very bizarre. But supposedly they were formed in 1947 after Roswell and the crash.

So we're going to talk a little bit now about some of the incidents that followed some of the UFO sightings that happened. We're not going to go into a huge amount of detail because we just kind of want to get through them. And then we're going to wrap up with the theories. Everything from the crazy that they actually were aliens all the way to Project Mogul, which people keep yelling about. And they don't know if you don't know what Project Mogul is.

Basically, it's it's the excuse that it was still a balloon. But the but the balloon was back then used as a spying balloon. They had microphones attached to it. I remember this. Yes. Yeah. And that's the official, I think, the official excuse now. But it also wouldn't explain a second crash and it wouldn't explain the giant gouge in the earth that was on the ranch, I would think. But the idea is that that explains why they were so big and why they were so much wreckage and they were so.

Yeah, exactly. So antsy about it, which is some kind of black up or something. Right. It's like they were testing it. They weren't using it like officially yet. They were still they were so they were kind of testing it on us on their own people to see how it would work and all that other nonsense. There's also the theory that it was a spy, a Russian, a Russian version of that balloon. But there's less evidence of that and it's more believable that it's us testing things as in we found a Russian spy balloon on our Russian spy balloon.

Got like something happened to it and it got knocked out of the sky. And so we're trying to hide the fact that Russians got that far in with their with their buying devices, you know, and a lot of that can be believed, especially when you learn that there's an area, I guess, within the atmosphere. Just kind of doing my research on that. There's what they were trying to do was get the balloon into a very specific point within the atmosphere where there's like a lot less interference and there's easier to hear and sound carries easier up there for one reason or another

so they can hear planes coming from way further away than they would if they were lower or higher within the atmosphere, something along those lines. OK, one thing that always bugged me about the the Russian angle is that when you think about the reaction of Russia to the U2 spy plane being shot down. Right. In Russia, they were like, we shot it down. We got your people, America. Yeah, suck our dicks, bro. Yeah. And I feel like even though the idea that's being presented as always,

well, Americans would freak out if they knew. I feel like if the government was like, send your best Russia, we'll shoot it down every time. I feel like wouldn't that be the thing that they would say if that's exactly what Russia? What's the thing called, though, when you're a two spies and you like it's called like mental psyops or you you you give you give them. I forget what the what the phrase is, but the phrase is like, you don't directly you don't like directly call out another spy,

but you like do shit to like fuck with them. Yeah, I get that. But it seems to me that it's strange that there's two totally opposite reactions. Yeah, I don't know. It seems weird that we wouldn't be big dick in it. You know what I mean? I get it. We do it for everything else. But we might have done everything else.

You know what I mean? We might have done it like in sequence. We might have like, you know, some dude in Russia, like maybe like went to his bedroom and found like a little Uncle Sam figurine standing on the desk in his in his house. And he's like and that's like all that happened, you know, for everything else during that period. There's so much big dick in going around. That's why it's the Cold War, right?

It was just everyone was like, would you get the Russia? Come on. That's the whole point. It's very strange. Although with that said, there's been plenty of, you know, things that have come out where it's like, oh, yeah, we were about six minutes away from blowing up the earth. Like that kind of stuff. So who knows? I mean, there was that event that happened in during that time, too,

where there was all because we have, again, this is something I only recently learned about, but there's we have we have missile sites all along the border of Canada, like all our nuclear missiles. And in this Cold War time, there's a like, you can follow the paper trails are there, they're not hiding it at all. But there's a UFO incident where an UFO went over all of the missile sites and even fucked with some of them, like gotten to the computers and like, there's like a flashing of lights and all their computer systems went nuts

for a few seconds and then it moved on and it would do that a bunch. And it also happened in Russia, which you can also were able to get like the papers for and they had UFOs where they said the ship looked like it was a solid ship. And then it broke apart into a bunch of little ships and did a bunch of things. And it was fucking with their launch codes. And then it put itself back together and then fucking took off. And it sure went to all their nuclear sites. It makes one wonder, you know, even though I don't believe it, it's a fun theory.

The idea that well, we haven't actually set off. A nuke on someone in since 1945. Mind you, we've set off plenty of nukes like in the ocean and tested them. Yeah, like the idea that we haven't killed anyone with it. Maybe the aliens are telling us not to because it could be them. So I'm like, yeah, it's just like them showing up and just being like, we can do whatever the fuck we want to your most powerful weapon. Yeah, mind you, we create even better, more deadly versions of them.

So the aliens really aren't doing their job or whatever. No, there's probably like, don't kill you. You're our food source. Please don't kill each other. Yeah, just make make weapons that are like 18,000 times more powerful than that first bomb, though. And they'll be fine. Yeah, go for it. Make nitrogen bombs.

Fine. It's all good. Just don't just don't use them. It's all right. All right. All right. So let's move on a little bit to some of what we're going to. There's a bunch of other incidents that happened that we could like really dive into, but I just want to stick to UFO incidents that were specifically

recorded during space travel and spacecraft that happened. 50s, 60s or 60s, rather or not, that kind of like really took off starting with May 16th in 1963. The crew was manned by the name of Cooper for the Mercury. And this was over Hawaii. He ended up picking up voices on a special frequency, speaking in a language later examined on tape and found to belong to no known earth language. Passing over Perth, Australia.

They saw large UFOs also observed by checking station on earth. So being seen by two different angles and two different people. Little that's that. Gemini four, June 3rd, 1964. McDivitt in white over Hawaii, almost collided with a silver cylinder oval with luminous trails, and they actually photographed it. You can go check this out as well. December 4th, 1965.

Gemini seven, a Borman and Lowell with a crew, and they took pictures of enormous UFOs with propulsion systems following the capsule they were in. Gemini nine, June 3rd, 1966. Stafford and Cernan were the crew, the capsule, the capsule accompanied from takeoff where the capsule took off and was accompanied by many UFOs seen by the ground station of radar observation. Later, a huge object on not a planet or planetoid was observed. Gemini 11, Gemini 11, September 12th, 1966.

Conrad and Gordon were the crew and long objects cited over Madagascar were seen. NASA said it was Soviet Proton three, but later was 350 miles away at the time of sighting. So they claimed it was a Soviet Proton three, but it was determined that that was not true. Apollo eight, crazy. I know it's nuts. Apollo eight, 21st of December, 1968.

Borman, Lowell and Anders, they cited a disc shaped UFOs as capsules as the capsule circled the moon. They reported, quote, we have been informed that Santa Claus does exist. And, quote, they also picked up unidentifiable language on the space frequency radio. What is their audio of that? I don't know. I didn't see any.

Wouldn't there be? Is there any more in description? Imagine again, that's if you want to if you want to go deeper and say Apollo eight, Apollo eight, first one, 1968, unidentified language on space frequency radio. While you're looking that up, Apollo 10, from the eighth to the 26th of May, 1969, the crew were Stafford, Young and Cernan. They all cited two UFOs following the capsule during orbit of the moon

and their homeward flight. So a lot of just so far is a lot of them, like once we get out there and we're like exploring, just a lot of them tailing us, following us, almost just kind of watching what we do. Apollo 12, November 14th, 1969, Conrad Gordon and being this time around. And the observatories on Earth had observed the capsule being accompanied by two brilliantly light lit UFOs near the moon. Then when near Earth before landing, a large UFO with red lights was seen.

Apollo 17, December 7th through the 19th of 1972, Cernan, Evans and Schmitt. They saw UFOs near Earth, close to the moon and in between on their journeys. And that's the official that's it for the official sightings between the 60s and the early 70s. I must not be keyed in on the conspiracy side of Google because I typed in everything for Apollo 8 and nothing was even related to alien voices. It's literally like the NASA page for Apollo 8, the airspace magazine page for Apollo 8, the wiki for Apollo 8,

Amazon, like the story of Apollo 8. We have been informed that Santa Claus does exist. Did that bring anything up? Apollo 10 alien music, the Apollo 8 mission had a Christmas Eve message that you can listen to, but I don't think it has the alien language on it. OK, but I don't I just don't I don't think there's a recording of it. Yeah, probably I would assume not otherwise it'd be everywhere. Houston, Apollo 8, please be informed there is a Santa Claus.

Yeah, that's yeah, that's that's the quote. Yeah, I see that it's I see that it's here, but I don't see any sort of like record of it. I have basically what you have. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, I don't know, man. It's not even though I don't even even without it, though, there's still so much so much going on.

OK, so apparently in Apollo 8, the level said, please be informed, there is a Santa Claus according to the transcript. And the conspiracy is that, I guess, he already had talked with the ground all through Christmas Eve and people are like, why do you say that? What prompted him to say that? What was that a code?

And everyone's like, I think he was just saying like, there's a Santa because it's Christmas. Yeah, he's trying to like do a thing for kids. I think like people were all watching it, but I I only see that there was this this poor court. Yeah, yeah, but I don't every can't find I can't find anything. And then a lot of interference. And apparently, like even after that Christmas message,

there was like a thing where they like left the mic on a little longer and there's a transcript of it, but it's not anything weird. There's no like recordings of space. Right, exactly. Damn, it's from it is from this point on. However, that the government does officially start investigating UFOs heavily from the crash of 1947. It's when the first study started happening.

And from that point on, there's going to be a history of the government starting and closing UFO UFO programs, only to reopen a new one under a different name under a different person. And you know, Project Blue Book, A tip, all that other stuff. Sure. And it just says this is kind of where it all starts. So that leaves us with well, then what the hell was the Roswell crash? What are the theories out there that the Roswell crash were?

And we're going to talk about those right now. And that will put a bow on Roswell. So first is the idea of the cover up was not, in my opinion, the it wasn't a weather balloon, even if it was a testing like spy balloon that we were working on, it's just no way. The reaction is too much. It's too much like regardless of what you say, there's no way they flew a weather balloon to Washington, D.C. Exactly.

So what do we have? Well, at this point in time, all classified documents, as we all know, are declassified within 20, 30 or 40 years. Thanks to, you know, the way our government now works. Therefore, any documents relating to New Mexico crashes, if they existed at all, would now be fully available. Unfortunately, there's really nothing about the Roswell crash that we don't already have in our hands.

Sure. There's no general requirement for automatic declassification of all documents. For an example, in 1990, the Truman Library reviewed half of its files of the CIA's Psychological Strategy Board. Half of the material could not be declassified for national security reasons, even though all of it dated pre-1953, therefore putting it within the range that it should be automatically classified. It would be impossible to keep crashes a secret, though, as a lot of people would

have been kind of knowing bits and pieces of the story. This is another reason people don't really believe that it was really aliens. Too many people have you heard the theory, you know, the conspiracy theory where it doesn't really work if hundreds of people know, because at that point, somebody's going to leak it to somebody, and therefore it would just fall apart. I forget the name of that theory. There's like a name for that specifically. I mean, it sounds like common sense to me.

Right. Yeah, right. It also makes a lot of common sense. Therefore, if there were so many hundreds of people's involved with these crash cover-ups, why did it never ever leak? And only we have these small tidbits of what was going on. Like people are leaking like the mass singer. You know, they're going to leak like an alien body.

Yeah, yeah. Especially something so world changing. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, it's easy to see like that. How did how do people keep that quiet? Obviously, the government is threatening people's lives to some degree. But even then, then there's a Freedom of Information Act that has clearly made it

possible for any citizens to get their hands on any document. The federal agencies have responded to this. Federal agencies also have a requirement to respond to all requests. So if any crash related documents ever existed, would they not have already been dug into by the general public at this point? Desperately trying to get their hands on them. I mean, yeah, it makes sense. Unless they destroyed them.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, unless they destroyed them fair enough. And I mean, I still don't necessarily not believe they don't have some sort of wreckage of some sort. Again, though, I'd err on the side that they just don't know what the fuck it is. Right. And they don't really, there's no like, they're not bringing it to, you know, Sergeant Gleeperp and down in the tunnels where the MJ-12 deal with the gray higher-ups.

I mean, I don't know what it is either, but I don't think it's what they say it is. Right. So explanations. The first one we're going to talk about is the American Test Rock and Explanation. Loads of people have suggested that all that was found at the Foster Ranch was the remains of one of the captured German-built V-2 unguided ballistic missiles known to have been test fired from the White Sands Proving Grounds, which is an area UFOs have been seen over a bunch,

less than 100 miles southwest of Corona where the crash happened. The bodies that, now this is the second crash we're speaking of specifically, the bodies were those of Reus Monkeys in advanced stages of decomposition for, from environmental exposure. So people, the bodies that these people, remember, 12 people kind of wandered in and all of them said there were bodies there. Their explanation is they were just like leftover corpses being observed out in decomposition as we do even nowadays.

And they just used them as kind of like fodder for the, for the rocket. Why would they be there? They, they filled the rocket with them, I guess, just like a test rocket to put bodies in, maybe for the weight, weight purposes of testing how, how heavy they could keep the rocket without putting live people in there and blowing them up. They could just use sand instead of monkeys. Sure, I, I, I mean, they blasted monkeys to space.

That's true. Spoilers, they left them up there. The monkeys didn't come back down. The dogs, the astronaut dogs, they didn't like land and get a parade. I've read Forrest Gump, okay? I, I get it. Forrest Gump came back down when he went to space. He did, but there was a monkey with him.

The movie is different than the book. Well, there's a bunch of reasons that this doesn't really fully fit the puzzle piece anyway. Monkeys were not. For one, one of the people that we talked about heavily throughout the series, Jesse Marcell, who had, was within the military, also had years of, years of experience in the army, air force intelligence. He would have had a load of knowledge of different types of common and uncommon air and space devices and you would think he would have recognized what was on the ground

before him in this crash. Also, if it'd been some sort of German test ballistic missile that they'd gotten their hands on, there would have also likely been some sort of parts, numbers, identification on the pieces of the wreckage, something that would have made, shown that it was manufactured somewhere. Well, there was, it was just written in like purple and laser ink. Yeah, it was written in red laser ink, exactly. It makes no sense. Also, if you were to believe the description of the bodies that we got from those who

saw, said they saw them, they'd sound nothing like monkeys. The big heads, one like one crouching in the, in the background, one trying to communicate. Tentacles. In arms. Yeah. Like it doesn't make any goddamn sense. So it doesn't fit that. And then obviously the last is that if this theory is true, why if it was like a simple

missile crash, was it treated with such insane secrecy? Why did the military come out? Why were there life threats against everybody who fucking saw the thing? Why was it, why was the newspaper the next morning immediately shouting about UFOs? Sell copies. You think so? You think, do you buy that it was a rocket, a U.S. rocket? I buy that the, the government would cover that up more than a Russian something or other.

It could have been. I think the failure of a United States thing, they'd cover up more than like the successful shooting down of a Russian anything. I was under the understanding that Project Mogul was like, like testing gear to spy on Russians. No. Because I could totally see them like being like, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.

Like if it was just like. Project Mogul is the official explanation now. Like that is the official one and the one that most people who don't believe it's anything other than something called like earthly. That's what people pretty much accept at this point. I mean, like if they were just like, Oh, it was a rocket that we were testing, like what is the downside of that? You know what I mean?

Yeah. I don't know. I'm with you. I guess like the animal question like the like ethics of like crashing a bunch of monkeys into the ground But like I don't feel like that's what the government was there to cover up And why would you send the body of a rhesus monkey to washington? Is that here's a quick rundown project mogul mogul was a top secret project by the us army air forces

Is just the wikipedia everybody Uh involving microphones flown on high altitude balloons whose primary purpose was long-distance detection of sound waves generated by soviet atomic bomb tests The project was carried out from 1947 until early 1949 It was a classified portion of an unclassified project by new york university atmospheric researchers The project was moderately successful But was very expensive and it was superseded by network of seismic detectors and air sampling for fallout Which was cheaper more reliable and easier to deploy

They literally just had like a big-ass ear in the sky like yeah, they were just listening. Yeah, that's hilarious Uh, yeah, this is the basically um They searched deep a sound channel in the oceans and theorized that a similar sound channel existed in the upper atmosphere A certain height where the air pressure and temperature result in minimal speed of sound So that sound waves would propagate and stay in that channel due to refraction basically long-distance listening Love that that's it So that's what that's what people mostly buy is what that was now because it fits a bullet fits the balloon theory but the balloon was way bigger had super secret gear on it and

Wouldn't no common person or even regular kind of military type would know what they're looking at I still don't understand like unless it was like there's still bits that don't make sense in the story I'm just saying like in project mogul like if that's what their official explanation is like It wasn't like a guy in a basket that could like snipe people in russia. You know what I mean? You know, it wasn't like some crazy thing like us being like we want to know when russia sets off a nuke. That's not like That's not like insanely Classified sounding information to me. I don't know

Like it doesn't seem like it deserves that level of of of discretion but the the concept if I understand this correctly is that We can just sit up in above the u.s. And listen to russia. Yep. Listen for their sound specifically to them blowing up nukes though. It's not like you can hear like putin Taking a shit in his house like from a microphone over Roswell, New Mexico Sure, I just wonder if maybe they were worried that russia didn't have that technology so Them knowing it could exist would send them down the path of like we have to work on it now

Yeah, I guess I guess it just doesn't seem I I don't see the government being like We got to hide this I do well, what if it wasn't japanese bomb carrying balloon? Oh, I heard about these. Yeah. Yeah. Well from november 1944 all the way through april of 1945 The japanese launched more than 9 000 crude gas filled balloons each carrying 50 to 75 pounds of incendiary or high explosive bombs As many as a thousand of them may have ridden the prevailing winds all the way to north america Damage from them was limited to a few small fires in the deaths of six people on an outing who came across one of them in the woods Can you imagine?

I mean It would explain the fireball in the sky that came crashing down the night before It seems a little bit inland and it seems like a year or two too late, right? Right, 47 we're talking about Yeah, well, they this was 1944 to 1945 right and so when was the crash event happened then 40. Yeah Yeah, so after the war was over just kind of drifted across. Yeah Just been in the air for a while the balloons themselves were 33 Feet in diameter made of laminated paper and rubberized silk and carried a payload of more than 300 pounds

Most of which was the mechanism that controlled the balloon's altitude as it drifted From a secrecy perspective this one kind of makes sense as the landings of these balloons would were kept secret to obscure any information Of their effectiveness getting back to the japanese However, there is of course evidence that does not support this As alex brought up the last launch of one of these balloons was in april of 1945 The odds of it still being in the air for over two years only to explode and leave debris all over the foster ranch is really goddamn low It's crazy. It's like it's like a thousand miles inland Moreover, none of the materials match what they got what people got in the crash

it doesn't make any sense And the balloons balloon crafts have not been a matter of national security at that point in time So why the fuck did the army freak out? That's what i'm saying. Like if it was a japanese weapon, they wouldn't be like we got to hide this I'm just saying It doesn't make any sense And I still wonder about the the dingles and the dudads and the symbols, you know, like the thing who wrote down Yeah

Yeah, it looks like emojis Right, it doesn't look like a wrote down kanji or anything. It looks like emojis And I don't know that's just weird That's one of the things more proof that aliens are future humans, dude And if I was a japanese like military person and I was sending my like secret balloon Over the ocean I wouldn't use like a language that only we use on this earth Like the like smoking gun of like kanji on a fucking military like

Secret craft, you know what I mean? Oh Uh, yeah, well, that's why I don't believe it either Do you know I'm gonna skip the weather balloon one Do we really do we wanted to do we dive into the weather balloon theory? Is there anything in there about why? Anybody would give that much of a shit about a weather balloon Well, because aspects of what we were given as evidence obviously match parts of a balloon But the materials from the brood debris field showed properties unlike anything seen before

Uh, the rancher said he had seen crashed weather balloons before Other people in the military who claimed to have seen the crash would have recognized what a weather balloon looks like Um brazil for instance would have had seen a bunch of weather balloons in his time in the military It just doesn't make any sense. Is there any sort of security breach? Yeah, security breach doesn't make it. It's just data collection, right? It doesn't make any sense. Yeah There's just so many versions of like examples of crashed weather balloons Yeah, that for people to mistake one. It just doesn't make sense It worked in the 40s when you couldn't jump on the internet and find pictures real easy

And you didn't know the common person didn't know what it looked like swamp gas. Yeah But even then people get the concept of balloons. Oh, sure for sure It just looks like a big-ass balloon. Yeah. Well, what if instead it was actually an american secret weapon? Okay, roswell at the time was known for its military base It wouldn't be such a far stretch to think that what crashed on foster ranch was some sort of military secret weapon in that It's development stages. I believe that this would also explain This would also explain why mac brazil of the military couldn't identify it as it was in high high levels of secrecy

Now what there's obviously a bunch of evidence against it What was secret in 1947 is no longer secret today If it was some sort of new military weapon or craft and it would have been either been put into production or sent to the scrap Heap either way, we would have uh, there'd been no need for secrecy anymore and we know what the hell it was Even if it had been totally successful, it would be long since obsolete today as well Yeah, and the same way that eventually the government was like, uh project mogul like Would they just be like list as well of planes? We know we're being tested at the time That weren't public at the time the bell out the bell excess one rocket plane

Which was being uh being developed by the famed x1 chuck yeager when he became the first man to fly faster than the speed of sound If you are a 80s 90s kid you played chuck yeager Yeager airplane sims Religiously That was one of the few games you could get chuck yeager, man. That was the shit I had a genesis man house air combat on like The whole gear and we get in our little all your friend had like a whole setup. Yeah, we get our Cockpit wrinkly face on the title screen

Oh my god. Yeah, we'd fly in like graphics that today would be comically bad It looks like And it wasn't anything like you're in a dogfight or anything. It's literally just like all right and now you're gonna push the throttle forward and It literally just looks like flying airplanes with like Yes, that's what it was. It was like are you just like with like john madden Jimmy carver. That's what it is. Yeah. Yeah, we thought it was the coolest shit Well

It wasn't that The other planes we were testing were the xb-35 the xb-26 the xf-86 saber the d-50 558 i sky streak Um All of these were being tested fairly like airplanes too, right? Yeah, they all look like airplanes and none of them We're being flown around the new mexico area Which then puts us okay. Well, what if it was a soviet secret weapon? Which we've kind of already talked about a little bit

Um, but if it was it doesn't it doesn't make very it doesn't make much sense for an incredibly secret and restrictive Project to test fly over enemy territory That deep down in the middle of the united states miles inland like over a military base. Why would you ever do that? This is just to get shot down captured and reverse engineered by us And as jesse said too, you feel like you'd be like all right They're here like why would you not tell everybody and be super pumped about it It is crazy to think that this could remain a secret for so long and be such a mystery

Because the concept of everything we're talking about during this time period all these planes all these things Rockets in general the space race was straight up We and russia took nazi scientists And brought them back recruited them to our sides And that is a known fact today So the idea that we were like hey, we know you were nazis and you did some crazy stuff But guess what we need your rocket technology and you're the only people know how to do it So come on back join us. That's a known story

It's real everyone knows operation paperclip like it's a real thing to think that that Is out in the open and this is not makes it seem like this is something way weirder Yeah, I don't it's it's and I want to know and I want to know but Gentlemen, that's where we have to leave roswell. That's it. That's everything the mothership That's it back to the chilluminati mothership We don't walk away with an answer, you know, I personally

I'm curious what you all personally think but for me like I said at the top of the episode I firmly stand in the if it is aliens I truly believe the government is as clueless as we are with the exception of they might have a few a little bit more video Evidence or whatnot and roswell certainly wasn't a weather balloon And it might have been aliens. It might have been project mogul. It might have been in a couple of things, but I don't know if we'll ever know. I don't think there's enough aliens Yeah, I don't I don't think there's enough evidence to be like here is what it is Yeah, like no way specifically

But I do think that this I keep coming back to roswell and I think and I never talked shit on roswell because I feel like It is clear to me at the very least that the reaction to what went down there was not like Like reasonable for any of the explanations that the government has given over the years even project mogul like it's a russian It's a microphone to listen for nukes That you would deploy on your own soil like

I just don't see it being like something that we need to fly to washington right away I don't need I don't see the need for it to be like uh furniture Like I just I just don't see any of that stuff It all going back to dc and That's this just parts of the story that just blow my mind. That's also the weird part is If it is something Of an out of this world nature, you wouldn't take it to the heart of the gut like the government No, you wouldn't do that. The president is not the first guy who gets to see like the alien body. Yeah

There's no one In the pentagon or whatever that needs like they would travel to the middle of nowhere base To look at it rather than be like sure bring the Aliens here that doesn't make any sense Like what if they had like a fucking virus like, you know what I mean? Exactly? Yeah, exactly Well, remember if if you're to believe the autopsy reports the the Corp smelled so bad that everybody was vomiting. So I'm saying like why would you like then pack that up and take it To like the sensory. Yeah, why would you bring that over to the to the government?

It doesn't make sense It's weird But with Roswell done and skinwalker done I feel like now for everybody who's kind of new to this world of like Weird conspiracies and aliens and supernaturally. You've got your starter package. Yeah, you're like all these years later You are inducted into the UFO like You're a ufo researcher now, too. Yeah, we're all ufo researchers You can add that to your lower third on any piece of media that you're on

On the UFO researcher tell him on the news if you get interviewed for any reason on the news tell him you're a ufo researcher Yeah, there's like a crazy killer near you in your neighborhood when they interview you and you're like, he seems so nice Just to have it say you have a researcher underneath Do you remember that freaking clip of that guy who like realizes that he got caught for murder on like because he's being Interviewed by the news. Yes, I do. I do remember that. That is like one of the best I somebody's gonna ask me for that on a reddit later. I'm sure that if you do I will help you find it But god is so insane That is a classic video

Uh, man, don't you wish we could just like talk about stuff for like 15 more minutes or so I kind of do. Do you is there a way we could do that? Well, you know what madness if you head over to patreon.com slash chalumbari pod right here shame right now I didn't see that coming. We got another mini so for you right now. We got some hot stuff. I got some good stuff I did some I've been doing research spoilers the next episode. I'm gonna do it I have an idea for like a fun little anthology Episode that I can do that's recurring So I have some stories that like didn't make the cut and I'm gonna talk about one today. So get on over there

I'm excited. Yeah, check it out. And like I said to 20 dollar tier and above starting next month You get an exclusive uh little poster digital art poster. Do you do what you want with it? Just if it's naughty stuff, don't ever tell us what that's all Well, they're paying they're paying hint at it, but don't say exactly what it is and don't watch any pics Keep it flirty. Keep it teasy. Yeah, I don't want to know. Keep it fresh. Keep it nice. Slurp it out You know what I'm saying? Slurp it out and maybe the boston bean boy will bless you with this presence later on. We're gonna go Yeah, thank you so much for listening if you want to tweet at us

You can find me at mathis games and or at the show to show at chalumbari pod I'm done chilling for you boys. Where can people find you? You just do it yourself. We'll start with uh, jesse What social media thing do you want a pimp at the end of this episode? uh, I want to Discuss not pimp. I want to Send you all to Uh, just you know what go to youtube.com slash jesse cox. It's a good website. Great great stuff. It's pretty neat It's a good website. I show up there a lot. It's a great place

Where can people find you alex? Uh, you know what? I'm gonna take this opportunity to show something that's coming back in a big way if you like to listen to jesse and I talk about things that We definitely read for sure Head on over to the star wars new canon book club podcast Which is back in production and uh, is us, you know going deep into the star wars canon, you know reading some books some comics Some uh, you know average tv You know all that all that good stuff

Yeah, head on over there and you can get mad at star wars and fall in love with star wars all over again with me and davis I If you ever want multiple episodes of alex and davis having the same conversation You want to see a man if you want to see a man on an emotional roller coaster so fragile That any mention of like key scenes will send him right back to 2017 Head over to star wars new canon book club And on that thanks for listening. We'll be back next week with some more luminati podcasts I appreciate you. Let me take you on the roswell journey gentlemen and listeners. We'll see you next time

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