Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 7 - Tommy Pitera Part 1 - Martial Arts Meets Murderer

Episode Date: June 10, 2018

The Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 7 - Tommy Pitera Part 1 - Martial Arts Meets Murderer by ChilluminatiPodcast

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No one helps more homeowners than Any Hour Services. This is where I'd be like, hey guys did you see Deadpool 2? We definitely haven't had this conversation yet. Ashes by Celine Dion is great. Go watch it and Deadpool dances around in the music video. It's fantastic. Anyway. I gotta watch Deadpool.

You do have to watch Deadpool. Hello everybody and welcome to the Chulun Minati Podcast, officially Episode 7. This episode is going live while the three of us are at IndiePopCon. So if you are at IndiePopCon and you are listening to this the day it goes live and then see us later that night or the next day, hey tell us what a great job we did and how phenomenal we are as podcasters and how there is really no one any better than us where the top of our game and Jesse would like alcohol. I was about to say that it's very cocky of you to assume this is going to be a great

episode but then you just went full blast and we're like, we're also the best there ever was. Say guys, say guys, if you see us, say guys let's face it, you're peerless. Now come on over to this bar and get drunk with you. Let me buy you guys some booze and then we'll be your best friends for the night at the very least. And then I'll tell you about how Alex really believes in the Mothman speaking to him at night.

Guys, the Mothman is real. Okay, hold on. The Mothman talks to Alex, I'm not sure if you're aware of this. I'm literally not aware of this. What? No, he does not talk to me at night but that is a good movie. What's in my drawer? I was going to say, did you rub yourself down with a very particular drug?

No, no. This Mothman posse. Yeah, it's just a good, it's a future episode of Chilluminati Pod. Oh yeah, we're definitely going to talk about uh, Chabstack. Yes, Haunted Chabstack in the Mothman at some point. Indrid, Indrid Cold. I'm very excited. But uh, while we may be known for talking about cryptids and aliens and spooky ghosts

and laughing about it and some of us, some of us having our minds open to the idea that these things may or may not exist in some form, others of us may or may not, uh, today we're going down a different avenue. The world of facts, which is different and true crime. What? I know! Chill. Facts.

Like, verifiable facts. What the fuck is this? I know, I know. It's our first true crime episode. We've been talking about and hinting at doing some true crime in the past and today is going to be the final first episode of doing it. Um, honestly, it was kind of at a whim a few weeks ago while I was on one of my trips. I saw this book and I did a quick like research.

Is the book good? Is it reliable? Etc. Etc. And everybody who read the book said it's phenomenal and this particular author is very, very good at what he does. All he does is write true crime stuff. And the book in question is The Butcher, Anatomy of a Mafia Psychopath by Philip Carlo.

This is the main source of research as well as as much internet sleuthing as I could possibly do on names that I didn't recognize and potential questions of whether what he's saying in here is true or not. And it seems pretty up to date and pretty factual. And this is the story of a man by the name of Tommy Paterra. He kind of had, he was a serial killer. There's really no other way to put it. He was a serial killer who worked within the mafia in the 70s into the 80s and was finally

arrested in 1990. He had about a little over 10 years of him doing what he did in Gravesend, Brooklyn, New York, where he is believed to have killed over 60 people. But he was put in prison with, he was put in prison because he was found to at least have killed 18. There was enough evidence and bodies to convict him. Hold on. He's from Gravesend, Brooklyn?

Gravesend Brooklyn. Yeah. It's very foreshadowing. I'm not sure I believe this. I'm not sure I believe this story already. He's from Murdertopia Kill-Kill-Sylvania. Yeah, he's from Kill-Sylvania. God damn it.

Yeah, no, it's true. That's where he was born and raised and where he operated for his entire life until he was arrested. He's still alive today in a prison in Kentucky under six life sentences and some other punishments that were slapped on top of him as well. The dude was a monster. There's just no other way to look at it. The dude was a verifiable monster who, it's as though you give, you take any serial killer

from the past and then give him the backings of the mafia and think about how rampant he can run for how long before he's finally brought down. This is like when Tony Stark gave Spider-Man a new suit. Right, except murdering. Can I, can I give you guys the hype on this guy really quick? Yes, please. For people who have no clue. Yeah.

This is totally true. This is the thing that happened. On August 11th, 1996, while he was in prison, I'm gonna say this is already while he was in prison. Mm-hmm. While he was in prison. An inmate was seriously assaulted, yet the incident reports suggest that there was little physical evidence in terms of an assault only because witnesses saw it happen and the inmate

himself was pretty nervous that he actually denied even being assaulted, but only because people saw it happen. Do we know this happened? But apparently Tommy beat this guy with an inch of his life and there was no bruising or whatever on his body. That what? No, that makes complete sense and we'll talk about the kind of guy we're talking about. Like he is a trained murderer, yes, and he is like really good at it.

And this is one of those things where they, unless people had, unless people had been there, people were there and they saw it go down and they reported it. If no one was there, no one would have known this guy got beat as bad as he did. Yep. What the hell did he do to him? It says here that he slapped his ass around until he fell down. Nevertheless, there were no visible wounds. Nevertheless, the man was repeatedly beaten about the face with a heavy metal object that

was never found. What the fuck? We will, knowing what I know and doing all the research I did, that is completely believable and we'll talk about why. So this is going to be a two part episode. This first part, this episode that we're doing today is going to talk about his childhood up until the point he joined the mafia and during this we'll actually learn about how he may have been able to beat somebody with an inch of their life without anybody ever

being able to tell. And then episode two, what we do for the next one, it will be all about his life and his crime spree in the Bonanno family, which is the family he worked for specifically. Bonobos? But in the Bonobo family. Bonobos? Oh man, I hear their ads on TV all the time. The Bonobos are the only primate that fuck facing each other.

No more, you know. Star goes across. Bonanno family specifically. But how about we just dive into Tommy and we learn as much as we can. Tommy Paterra, also known as Tommy Karate Paterra, which Tommy Karate, that is the nickname the mafia gave him. And I will say that's what he did to this dude in jail. He used Tommy Karate on him.

He probably did use some Tommy Karate on him. Also reading this book and learning about all the people he worked with, there are the most Italian of Italian names and I just got lost and confused as to who they were talking about half the time where I'd have to go reread it like three times to set it apart. It reads like a movie, like a mafia movie. And I am surprised there is no movie about Tommy Paterra because the shit he did is incredible. In a bad way, not a good way, like incredibly horrendous. Good cover, Mathis.

Also known as Tommy Karate Paterra, The Butcher, and as Waco, another name they gave him in the mafia after he was already notorious for being basically a serial killer. After one of the Warner Brothers. He was a notorious mafia assassin that worked with the Bonanno crime family in Brooklyn, New York between the years of 1976 and 1990 in which he was then arrested that December. In that time. Probably looked awesome the whole time. Oh, yeah.

Really good, really good fashion. Oh, that's, that's everybody, you know, in the mafia always dressed to the nines in suits and drove wonderful cars as part of the allure of joining basically a crime ring. I'm going to picture Jeremy Renner. Yes, Jeremy Renner. Well you can actually look up the picture. Like a little chubbier Jeremy Renner. Yeah, he's got a square draw, then I think Jeremy Renner and definitely he's got a little

bit more weight to him, but I actually can see Jeremy Renner. And he doesn't know how to use a bow and arrow. No, just, just his, his Tommy Karate fist. He never fought, he never fought a robot. Not as attractive to the NASCAR crowd. Right. Yep. Of course.

In that time where he worked with the mafia on top of all the crimes that tend to come along with working with the mafia, including theft, money laundering, and inner mafia family squabbles, Tommy Karate Paterra is believed to have killed over 60 people during his reign of terror. And reign of terror is the only way I can think of describing what he did. This man was without a doubt a serial killer. From his mannerisms, to how he killed, to what he did after he killed them, to why he killed in the first place, everything that he did points to him being psychologically

a serial killer. The real difference here was that this is a serial killer who had the full backing support and financial support of multiple, very powerful at the time crime families, sanctioning his actions and rewarding him for those actions as well. Imagine a serial killer like Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer were able to do what they did, but they had millions of dollars behind them and many, many, many people covering their tracks for him. It's kind of a serial killer's wet dream in a lot of ways.

Where they get to be powerful and lord over the people they kind of deem underneath them and then continue to kill kind of indiscriminately in a lot of ways because he can and he enjoyed doing it. So did he do, did he, did he kill other people? That were not part of the mafia? Like yeah, like did he like kill for the mafia, but then like yo, if they got the right shape, it's time to do some Tommy Kalati. So the way it went down, and we'll talk about specifics later, is that he was the go-to

guy for all mafia to, if anybody wanted him out, they usually went to Tommy or one other person and they typically worked together, but Tommy was the go-to guy. However, if anybody disrespected, he didn't like, talked down to him or just generally rubbed Tommy the wrong way, he would have them, he would kill them personally. He would just be like, you shouldn't have made that joke about me. Literally that happens. Yes, Jesus. It was like the good fellas, characters like, what am I clown?

Like to make you laugh like she, yeah, Joe Pesci. There is a comparison to Joe Pesci that people have for him, actually, due to his voice. Are he here for your amusement, like that kind of thing? I mean, kill you? Yeah, more like, well, it would be a little less direct. He would always let them get away with it, and then two days later, he would set up a meeting under false pretenses and then kill them. He would, he, but the reason he did that is because he always needed all of his tools

available. This is a man who carried autopsy tools with him, so he could dismember the bodies in his way afterward. This was not somebody he would just kind of go off and put a bullet in somebody's head. They were always thought out, and it always went his way, and he had his own personal burial ground, which we'll talk about as to, and it was integral as to why it took almost, you know, over 10 years to catch this guy, especially in the 80s. But let's rewind.

Let's go all the way back to when Tommy T. Patera was born. Tommy Patera was born on December 2, 1954 in Gravesend, Brooklyn, to the parents of Joseph and Catherine Patera. Sounds made up. Yep. Totally not real. What part is made up? The Gravesend one?

All of this so far. Sounds like the beginning of a comic book character. In fact, he's from Gravesend, as in he sends you to your grave. It's very, what do you call those in real life? Like an idiosyncrasy, I think is the term, where it's almost, what's that movie with John Cusack? Oh God. Synchronicity.

Synchronicity is another one. Serendipitous. Yeah, but like the murder version of serendipitous. Like where like the good is just like that it makes sense. Yeah, more or less. Yeah. It's very telling of what would happen to this boy over time. He also had a sister named Trisa and apparently an extended family where they were all very

close with each other. It seems like he had a pretty normal loving family for this time. His parents were hardworking people, attended church regularly and hailed from southern Italy. His father, Joseph, was a candy salesman. He'd feel like that's like a really good serial killer parent job. Right? Yeah.

Your dad was a candy salesman. It seems real so far. It all seems like if I had to write the backstory of a guy Dexter tried to kill, this would be it. It's so mundane though. Like his dad would drive around all of the boroughs with his car packed with delicious treats. Mary Janes, Pixie Sticks, Bazooka Gum and more.

He just drove around. He was a door to door candy salesman. Kind of like the ice cream man, but creepier. Yeah. There's a guy who's not the ice cream man who shows up outside my house sometimes and he does his little sound and then he's just in a truck and he's got a few snacks. He's got fruit and stuff. Everybody loves him but it's not an ice cream man and that's why it's weird.

It sounds like a street food vendor though. He's like a guy, it's like a 7-Eleven that's in front of your house for a few seconds. For a few seconds. It doesn't last like an hour. He just comes and sets up for a minute and then he's off. It's exactly like an ice cream man. He's always on the move. That's so weird.

Yeah. Okay. Well, so I have a point of reference for this. Yeah, you have a weird point of reference, but this guy doesn't have a truck. Apparently he drove around his own car. Is what his guy? Oh, that's very strange. Yeah, it was in his, like all the candy was in the trunk of his car and that's what he

sold. It's like somebody gave him the job of candy salesman and then he never like asked anyone or looked up what you do when you sell candy. Right. Right. He read the vacuum salesman book and he did that. Right. Yeah.

That's exactly like, I will do this but for candy. Children love candy. Yeah. Oh my God. Now, it isn't entirely clear whether his mother had a job, but the way it sounds is that the mother was a stay at home mom, which is not surprising for the time for the fifties. The point being stable home life, stable home life, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, exactly.

But it did seem as though she was stay at home, like I said, and took care of her kids the best she could. There's no stories of parental abuse or weird shit that happened though. It's possible that didn't happen. We just never, we never got the story from Tommy or people who knew him when he was growing up. Yeah. Maybe it was more like a phantom thread, very passive aggressive.

Yeah. Cause the thing with serial killers, it kind of always runs through as there's always childhood trauma. Usually sexual childhood trauma or some sort of, you know, the father is absent and they're raised by just their mother and things are really weird at home. But that doesn't seem to be the case with Tommy here and it's possible he was just kind of a fucked up guy. Regardless, however, parents can't always protect their kids from everything, especially

against bullies while they aren't, while, especially while the parents aren't around. And while from everything I was able to look up, it seemed Tommy had a relatively normal childhood. He was what many called an unusual child or at the least unusual looking. He had straight jet black hair, blue, gray eyes, a hell of a jawline, as well as being thin and pale. He was a target of plenty of bullying. But the thing that got him the most negative attention all through his life up until today

was his high pitched voice. Many people said it's more akin to a girl's voice than a boy's. Most of the people compare it to Mickey or Minnie Mouse and that voice would remain with him until this very day and it was the reason he got made fun of a ton. What the fuck? Okay, so, so he, so he'd be like, laugh it up. I'll see you in two days. Like that kind of thing.

Are you making fun of me? I got a silence clock and, oh my God. Do we have, have you ever heard him talk? Serial killer? Have you ever heard him talk? Uh, no. I can't find any recordings of him anywhere. I don't blame him.

Yeah. I didn't want to record it. My voice got, got what the fish is saying. Oh, Mickey the serial killer. You're just the most adorable cartoon. I'll take him out on Steamboat Willie. Give him some of my Tommy Karate. Sounds like bitches.

I smoke drugs. I smoke drugs. I smoke drugs. Oh boy. Oh my God. Okay. Uh, small pale and high pitched voice. Tommy was the perfect target for childhood bullying, especially in Gravesend.

It was a town filled with blue collar workers and laborers. Here the rule. It was voted deepest voiced town of 1994. Honestly, the way it sounds, I'd like all the people, all the guys walking around just shirtless, muscular, sweaty, scarred. I imagine everybody just looked like a mean motherfucker back then. In that town. Tommy karate just ripped his pants.

And then Tommy karate, I ripped off your arm. Here the rule of law was stopped with, here the rule of law was basically stopped with the person being hurt. Whoever was last man standing was the winner of the argument. That's all it took. Someone say something nasty, then you better give it back, but 10 times worse. If you get punched, you better swing an aim to knock out some teeth or do more damage. Last one standing is the winner.

End of story. And poor Tommy, poor motherfucker, he never won anything. Every day, sometimes multiple times a day, Tommy would be picked on, made fun of, kicked, punched, teased for how he looked and how he sounded. And being small and frail meant he could do almost nothing to fight back. So he went to the desert and joined the League of Shadows. You don't know how close to reality you are. What do you mean?

Oh, we're going to get to it. We're going to get to it in this episode. Okay. All right. All right. And one might think one would go to his parents. At least that's what I did. So I don't know about you two, but in high school and elementary school, I was the subject

of torment forever. I was short. I had a high-pitched voice until I was a junior in high school. Oh, geez. Mother. I got shoved in a locker. I literally got shoved in a locker. Like that happened to me.

I know. I was the vibe. Yeah. I got picked on and punched and all kinds of shit all the fucking time. So just while there may be a level of empathy for people who get picked on and I have that empathy for you, it is in no way an excuse to become who Tommy became. Yeah. And I never, I went to my parents as well.

You know, they helped me deal with it and it was, it was healthy for me to do so. But maybe we're all just keeping it real chill. Like all of us who were bullied in high school just are killers. We're deep down. We just the scene. We just are. We're just really good at it. What would be your mafia assassin nickname?

Sleepy. Alex Sleepy Fasiane? Hell yeah. It's gotta be me. Jesse the Joker? No. I'd be like Jesse the Fish. Jesse the Fish.

You got that. You can't have like a drive time. That's your drive time DJ name. Sleepy in the Fish. What about Mike? I'm guessing live, live, live. Mike is boring, Martin. I got, I got nothing.

No, you'd be like, you'd be like, I don't know, they call you like, exactly, exactly. No, they call you like the cheese. The forgettable? Yeah. The cheese? They call you the cheese. Oh Lord, why? Chili.

Chili beans. Yeah. Oh my God. Chili beans is better. Oh man. Yeah. It's never anything good and it's never anything that makes sense. I don't know man.

Talking to Tommy Karate. I was gonna say. That makes no sense. It's perfect. No, it'll make sense. Jesse the Fish. Sleepy Alex. Well, you know, it'll make sense and it will make sense, but um, so like I said, Tommy

didn't go to his parents. That was just a weird tangent. Uh, the only people who could protect him at this time would be them and instead he didn't want to seem weak to them. So he hid it. He would come home, pretend nothing would happen and more often than not, he would go to his room and cry and just cry out everything that happened for that day, which is also healthy.

I did that plenty of times. Um, but he, his parents never knew and he always had this facade of everything is gonna be okay. So nobody really knew he was kind of being tortured as a kid more or less. Um, so I, my brain literally, I had a, I had a tangent. And it's gone and he, he knew he was gone. Oh well. Um, but while he cried, he, he would always envision being, uh, getting his revenge as

even I did. I think, you know, not necessarily murdering them, but, oh, being able to, that's what I'm hearing. Yeah. Yeah. Just fantasize, you know, like when you get, when you get beaten down a little bit, you want to punch them back, right? You just fantasize your victory.

Yeah. Are you even on smaller scales? We've always, we've all been in the shower, right? And thought of the perfect comeback to an argument we had. No. Yeah. Exactly. All right.

You're in the shower, you're jacking off, you're thinking about how to get back at your bullies. See, that's, that is the mix for serial killer, mixing your sexual fantasies with your violent ones. Oh yeah. Everyone knows that. Don't do it. Just don't mix them.

Don't mix. Everyone knows that. Don't cross the streams for that. Yeah. Yeah. I don't do that. Um, but like I said, he, he wanted to get his revenge in at least some, some way and he would at least he would try.

So being able to, unable to fight back, being scrawny, pale, nerdy, high pitched, Tommy went the more subtle route. He would steal things from those that caused him pain. And then he would go on the street and hawk him for quick, for a quick buck. He would never tell the people that he was stealing them. He would just do it. And it's kind of his way of giving the middle finger to everybody who fucked him over in the past and make some quick cash in the process.

The only like steal somebody's like iPhone and sell it. Yeah. One of the examples that they, that's out there is he stole, uh, one of his bullies literally gear and he would then hawk it on the street, you know, a few days later, make a quick buck, get rid of it and basically his way of getting back at him. I would like, I would like pay money to watch that exchange going, Hey man, need a little league here? Who wants to know?

Me. Hey, Tommy, where'd you get that stuff, man? What stuff? All right. Okay. See you later. What stuff? See you later.

Exactly. See you later. But no amount of thieving would stop the bullying and he would have to endure it for a while still. Many years in fact, it wouldn't be until Tommy saw the TV show, Green Hornet, that his mind would venture toward violence as a more acceptable solution in his mind. No. I know, right?

Really weird. Specifically, he had a fascination with Bruce Lee, uh, and his martial arts because he played Kato, I think, which was the Green Hornet sidekick on that show. Yeah. Kato? Kato? Is it Kato Kato? Yeah, it's Kato.

It's Kato. I've never seen Green Hornet actually. I've never seen it. Like, imagine the exact same TV show as Batman, the, Batman, the, like, classic, uh, Adam West Batman. Yep. That kind of stuff. Except Robin is Bruce Lee and Batman is the Green Hornet.

Okay. Is it good though? It's exactly the same thing as Batman, so it's like very hokey, lots of like, walking on the ground and turning the camera to go outside of a building. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got you. Man, that makes sense though.

I mean, that was kind of like the special effects for the time. And this is kind of a charm to it, I admit. Yeah. Plus Bruce Lee did like, sick moves. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. And actually that's immediately who he connected with, Tommy. He connected with Bruce Lee instantaneously and his Bruce, and Bruce Lee's character who beat up the bad guys and always showed respect to those he deemed innocent and worthy, especially

women. From here, Tommy would entangle his fantasies of being a martial arts master, respected while being still respectful in return, and his urge for revenge and power, specifically power over those he deemed under him. After all, Green Hornet was all about street justice, and that's the only kind of justice Tommy had ever known. Wow, so he really did go join the League of Shadows. Oh, he really did.

He did. And it's incredible, his weird journey that led him to become who he became. But if Green Hornet hadn't been enough for him, Bruce Lee's first major motion picture, Marlowe. Marlowe? Marlowe in 1969 would be more than enough. Okay, as a man who has never seen Marlowe, please tell me why that excited the shit out of you.

Marlowe is about, like, Philip Marlowe, the, like, you know, who's, what's the name of the guy? Chandler? Like Raymond Chandler detective? And Bruce Lee's basically just, like, a ninja in that. Oh, all right. He's like, he's Winslow, I forget what his last name is, it's like, it's like Charlie Chan type name, and he's just, like, literally a kung fu master that, like, is in the movie

for a minute. Oh, all right, well, that was, that was, like, the last hook he needed, apparently. From then on, Tommy was hooked on martial arts, from passing interest, from what was an initially passing interest, rather, to a full-blown. By the way, his name was Winslow Wong. Was it? Winslow Wong. That's actually great.

I knew Winslow, because I could never forget Winslow, because when I first saw the movie, I could only think of Carl Winslow. Yes! That's, when you said Winslow, I was like, family matters? Yeah, exactly. But I can't remember, I couldn't remember. It's Wong? Yeah, Winslow Wong.

Winslow Wong. I was gonna say Winslow Wang, so I'm glad I didn't guess. All right. Interesting. I think that's a great, I love the alliteration. Winslow Wong. Very, very early Marvel comics, yeah. Incredibly.

But, anyway, he, yeah, his interest from martial arts was just kind of an interest, initially, like a hobby, but after this movie, it literally became, like I said, a full-blown obsession. It's all he cared about, all he thought about, the only thing he wanted to do. He embraced everything about it, from the restrictions that they imposed on you to the sense of honor and duty surrounding it, never pick a fight, turn the other cheek unless absolutely forced, be righteous and respectful, and he was, all of those things, for a time. So can I just, can I just, like, clarify something then? Yeah.

So he just, like, he didn't actually, like, go to a martial arts class right away. He just was, like, he, like, weaved it up. He, like, he, like, assumed the philosophy. He assumed the philosophy and started taking lessons locally. Okay. So he did take some karate. Yeah, yeah, no, he took a lot of karate. He was in it, like, in it to win it.

The dude was completely, utterly obsessed. And after elementary school, because all this was happening during elementary school for him, and then once high school started coming along, Tommy was becoming a different person. The Tommy that everyone had known, the shy one, pale kid, weird-looking, high-pitched voice, just weak in general, had been replaced with a bigger and scarier Tommy. He now walked with his head held high, shoulders squared and back, and had a very commanding, confident presence. No longer was he fragile, but the utter dedication to martial arts over the years had toughened

him up completely. Muscular body, his fists had flattened from punching a punching bag, untold amount of times through the years. He had a massive six-pack, and he had long black hair, emulating that of his hero, Bruce Lee. Tommy was an entirely different person now. Bruce Lee's hair on anybody who's not at least a little bit Chinese looking is hard for me to understand.

I'm thinking of Moe from The Three Stooges. If it helps, his parents kind of compared him to a hippie, more or less. His parents compared him to a hippie when it came to how he looked at this particular time in his life. But weird. It worked. The bullying stopped, and though his voice was still high-pitched, it's as though he trained as hard as he did to compensate for that voice.

His hands and feet were weapons now, and he knew it. People would take wide bursts around him, the bullies who were bullying him stopped completely, and he had the attention of girls, which was something a little strange for him. Really? Yeah, see if there's a negative aspect about you, you can always compensate boys and girls. Comedy's a great compensation. By learning karate. By becoming a psycho killer.

Yes. That too. Do what I did. Be funny. I honestly think, and this is why I wrote this down, I honestly believe that if Tommy had maybe grown up somewhere else, I do wonder if he would have become somebody different. If his respect and his honor and his duty and everything he really cherished and idolized about not only Bruce Lee, but the martial arts mindset would have turned him into somebody

that could be respected and kind of lived a normal life. I wonder what would have happened if he watched Bonanza instead of Gordon, or Batman, even for that matter. Batman? Yeah, but see, I wonder if he would have taken, I wonder if he would have looked at Batman and been like, Batman doesn't finish the job, he needs to kill the bad guys. Damn. Oh my god.

Damn. That would have been, then we would have had fricking the punisher on our hands. Or the Joker, straight up. Yeah. He's like, yo, the Joker's got some good ideas. Right, right, right. Anarchy. Anarchy.

Perfect. Yeah. But he didn't turn into somebody different, unfortunately, for basically all of his victims from here on out. He was born in Dead Body, California. He was born in, yes, Graves and Brooklyn in the 50s and 60s, a place completely and almost hilariously openly run by the mafia. Specifically, there were five very powerful families that all worked together and even

had a mafia, like a council of the heads of all the families that they would get together once a week, have dinner and talk about everything they were doing and how to work with each other and stay out of each other's territories. Like the Sopranos? Yes. Straight up. Yes. Like, just straight up.

No, the more I read, the more the Sopranos clearly has influence from actual mafia members. Like, you know, you read stories about the mafia and you're like, yeah, I mean, the mafia, I get it, like, they're like the crime family. I like, you know, you've seen The Godfather, you understand how the rules work. But then, like, I was listening to a podcast about what's his name, that like, super jerk guy from New Jersey, Chris Christie, and like, that is like exactly how it still works. It's like still very much just like controlled by like people behind the scenes in organized crime.

It's wild. It's strange. That is just like not a thing we have out here on the side of the country of the country. Yeah. Well, I mean, Vegas was pretty close. Yeah. That's true. But I just post more so.

Yeah. I just like LA. It just doesn't have that, I guess there's enough like legit rich people here that it's different. They run their own mafia. It's called corporations. The entertainment industry. Yeah.

In Hollywood. Yeah. But like back then, and maybe, I mean, I'm sure like you said it exists nowadays, but back then, they just openly were everywhere. They had no nothing to hide. They didn't care. They could look like you think they did to exactly as you think they would did. They could be seen driving all their fancy cars, living lavish, almost royal lifestyles.

Sure the cops were around. But if they weren't bought off by the mafia, then those were those that were able to put any criminals behind bars. Those criminals were very quickly replaced. These then seemed to breed criminals. And there was always someone eager to jump into the promise of riches and beautiful women no matter the cost. So they basically like the kids who grew up seeing the mafia and kind of romanticizing

the mafia, they were easy pickings. If they, if anybody in the mafia lost somebody, they had somebody else to recruit. You know, it was almost never ending extreme of just criminals. So there's very little. Hail Hydra. Yeah. It was, there's very little the cops did. And like I said, there was a ton of crooked cops.

It wasn't for, if it wasn't for a couple of heroes we'll talk about in the second episode in the FBI that did everything they could to put this man behind bars. I wonder, you know, how it would be today. It's insane. And it's almost like the movies that we see all the time talking about how the mafia worked back then. I mean, that's exactly what those movies are fucking about, right? Yeah.

Like the real ass mafia. It's crazy. I always thought that was fantasy, but it's not. Yeah. Anyway, and Tommy, Tommy saw all of it. And more importantly, he really wanted it. It would afford him the money and life he always dreamed of while giving him that ultimate fantasy of power that he could lord over those he deemed not worthy.

He saw his father and the menial job that he worked as a candy salesman and door to door candy salesman and decided that he really, really wanted more than that. And I'm not over this candy sale. That is literally what his job was, right? Door to door candy salesman. Really the very exact thing that you warn your children not to ever interact with or talk to. If there's a man and he says he has candy in his car and you've never seen him before

and he wants to give you some, do not talk to that man. No, not at all. But I wonder if that warning comes from these days where there was people going door to door selling candy and kids would just go missing. That blows my mind. It was a different time, man. The fifties and sixties were wild. But the fifties and sixties, fascinatingly enough, and the seventies to an extent, were

rife with serial killers. Like it is insane. And the theories as to why are just as fascinating. One of the things that's talked about a little bit in the book is like this era of time where there were so many serial killers. There's basically two dominating theories as to why they were so prevalent. One being lack of surveillance. Like they don't have, we didn't have the surveillance like we do nowadays with cell phones and cameras

and all those other nonsense everywhere, which really prevent serial killers from kind of doing what they do for very long at least. Another one that I've read that people think is lead. Lead was everywhere and in everything and it's shown that lead can cause aggression in people and really fuck with them, especially if you're in kind of taking it into your body constantly. And people are wondering if lead attributed or helped in some way serial killers be who they would eventually become. I got a lot of questions.

I got a lot of questions about this because this is just kind of a tangential theory that I've read. Right. Right. Right. I feel like theories like this need specificity mostly because there wasn't surveillance for centuries, millennia before that. So you know, Jack the Ripper and there were other serial killers that existed in the past.

So this time period, I feel like if we're going to say it's because there was no surveillance, we should also say it's because for the first time, someone could get someplace very, very fast. That should kill someone and be gone and no one would know and you just hop on a train and you're just out. Hell, you could literally get in a car and drive away and, you know, up until recently that wasn't a thing everyone could do. Yeah.

Well, something fascinating about serial killers, they always operate almost, they have FBI have their own profile, the way to profile serial killers and serial killers almost always, their first kills at the very least are always near where they live or at least in the town where they live. Like tries. Like first tries. Well, or successes because it's where they're comfortable. It's where they know the ins and outs and they feel safer there.

You got to be comfortable with your work. Of course. Yeah. Of course. But the thing is with that as well, like the idea of a serial killer killing somebody without motivation, even if they operate in the same town, it can still be very hard to figure out who it is, especially if it's a true serial killer, because a serial killer can be struck with the urge to kill at any point, seeing any person, even if they're

not attached to them in any way. Yeah, it's not logical. It's not logical. It's not logical. It's very hard to track them down. And forensic sciences were still budding and new, especially back then. And even now we don't actually know what the fuck. We're just like better at, we've just had more experience with the killer.

We never caught the Zodiac Killer. And it's possible the Zodiac Killer inspired a ton of people to be copycats and take on his name. I think it's the celebrity aspect that really has created the serial killer idea that we have. Yeah. There's a lot to that. That'd be a fun topic, just serial killers in general in a future episode.

But yeah, that's just kind of a little tangential thing that they talked about a little bit. And real quick, real quick, Arthur Lee Allen, let's be fucking real about that. That's who Zodiac was. I don't know who that is. It's the obvious suspect for the Zodiac. Gotcha. And not to get too deep into it, but he's the obvious suspect why it's just no evidence that it's actually him, just a lot of circumstantial, I'm assuming.

Pretty much. I read the book about the murders that was the one that they based the movie off of. And that one is like, it's one of those books that you just love to find where it's somebody who just has no connection to it, who just gets super obsessed with it and then just becomes very connected to it, which is just my favorite type of book to read. And so I went down to Kennedy, Rabbit Hole one time, I went down to Zodiac, Rabbit Hole one time. If you haven't seen that movie, you should.

That, that Chaluminati, like a Zodiac Chaluminati, it's like, you know, walking the line between mystery and true crime. Right, right. I would love to talk about the Zodiac in the future, but like, man, good Lord. Yeah, that's another fascinating, fascinating case. But back to Tommy Paterra, while Mr. Paterra, or should we call him Tommy Karate? Tommy Karate is like, Tommy Karate, come on. Tommy Karate.

My boy Tommy Karate. I could say forever. Right? Yeah. While he, while he fantasized and kind of romanticized the idea of the mafia, it would still be a long time before he would be known and become the butcher for a while, and his martial arts trainings would carry him still a bit further before that would happen. In the biggest turning point, the point where we really see Tommy turn the corner, Street

Fighter. Street Fighter now. So, yeah. Well, this is the point right here where Tommy takes his first big turn, where we start to see the serial killer start coming out. A large martial arts tournament was held in Brooklyn's Sheep's Head Bay. That would be his next step. If he won, he would win a substantial cash prize, prestige, and would be lauded, and

a ton of prestige would be lauded onto the winner if it was him. But most importantly, he would also win what they deemed a scholarship to go and live in Japan and study under one of Japan's most respected martial arts at the time. Get the fuck out of here. And win is exactly what Tommy did. And so, he was sent off to Japan to study martial arts a little further. He's fucking literally Tommy Karate. He is literally Tommy Karate.

It is real. No. Yes. Tommy Karate, codename 47. This is like some shit. He was a monstrously good at martial arts. This is incredible. And beat everybody in the tournament that was held in New York at the time in Brooklyn,

and was literally flown off to Japan to practice and train more. And then he changed his name to Sagat, and he got uppercutted to the chest. And maybe surprisingly or unsurprisingly, when Tommy arrived in Japan, he took to Japanese life instantly. He was already considered a loner at home, and so he kind of embraced that, became more focused and used it to his advantage. That was all. He got the polite treatment, but was still completely ostracized.

Yeah, but he loved that. He loved being left alone. And all that that lonerness was amplified in Japan because, like you said, people were polite. Do you think he killed people in Japan? No. He did not. He did not.

He would never do that. He wouldn't become a killer yet. It was the sense of honor, duty, and the samurai way of thinking that was still around in a post-World War II Japan. It's still around now, dude. In the 60s. Remember when the Sony CEO or whatever? He bowed for like 30 seconds after everybody's passwords got released?

That's right. It's still very much there. Yeah. And he loved that. Tommy, it stuck with Tommy instantaneously. And he began to train under his new sensei, whose name was Hiroshi Masumi, seven days a week. His diet changed while he was there to rice and fish almost exclusively.

And because of that, he had basically no fat on his body and he got bigger and stronger. More efficient at fighting, trained as hard as he possibly could every single day. And when he wasn't training in his off time, he read. And what he read was almost exclusively books on war, fighting, how to kill, and human anatomy. And those books would be found at the arrest of Tommy Karate Pitera. And they were well-worn with dog-eared pages. And he voraciously consumed how the best to fight and kill other people. That was his obsession in Japan while he was there.

Got to be honest, so far, super inspiring. If the movie ended like right here. Super inspiring story. Yep, it would be if it ended here or ended in a potential way it could have ended that we're about to get to. So while he was there, it's as though all he gave a shit about now was being the best fighter he possibly could be. And while that was an obsession in the US, in Japan, he got to live, eat, and breathe

it. There was nothing else for him to do. No family, no job, nothing. He just all he had to do was fight and live in Japan while slowly turning the best fighter into the best killer. In Japan, what was once his passion truly and completely became his life. And when that scholarship ended, he actually took up a job in Japan and extended his stay there as long as he could to train more.

It would be 27 months before he would be home. 27 months of living and breathing nothing but martial arts while consuming books. He just did like Japanese murder work study. Yeah, that's exactly how he treated it at the very least. Like you say, like in a joking way, but it's true. What in the hell? 27 months of living, breathing nothing like I said, but that and consuming all of the books had to kill your opponents the best way.

That's all he read. Irreversibly tying them together in his mind. The Tommy that left the US was dangerous, but the one that would return would be murderous. That's why you don't go to college undeclared. That's why, yeah. Jesus Christ. In 1976, Tommy would return home to Gravesend. As much as he left it, it was still run by the mafia, specifically the Bonanno crime

family. Bonannoes. If you're listening to Bonanno crime family, it's all good, man. Don't worry. Please don't kill me. Holy shit. Yeah, right. We're here to tell, make stories and laugh and make fun of your ridiculous, terrible,

horrendous, you should be behind bars crimes. I didn't even realize you guys were real till I heard about this. Till today. Please let me be. And his dreams. I for one, welcome our Bonanno family. Yeah, I have no problem with that. Are you Jesse Karate?

Hey, what you know about that? Hey, Jesse Karate, are we in highest voice, highest kicks? Here we are. I'm just mesmerized by this story. This is so bonkers so far. And if this was a movie, Jean-Claude Van Damme would be Tommy Karate. He'd come back and win a tournament and then that'd be the end of the movie. Yeah, exactly.

So far, this is nonsense. This is insanity. He would kick that bully's ass so hard. Yeah, the bullies that beat him up, he'd go back and he'd beat them up the end. But he would let them live is the difference. Have you seen Jean-Claude Van Damme movies? I don't think so. You don't think so?

He would have murdered them? He would have broken those men. You've broken them in a Batman way, though? No, broken them in like a snap their arms off kind of way. Oh, damn it. Well, upon returning to the US, all those dreams of a luxurious life were still there. They hadn't left them. But instead, they were now kind of closer than ever.

Tommy wasn't a kid anymore. The years in Japan had ensured that. He was stoic and respectful. He even toyed with the idea of opening his own martial art school in the area when he moved back. And that would have been the most storybook ending I would have hoped for. If he just did that, he would have been fine. Right, came back.

You know, he's just fucking ripped. This little like meek, pale nerd becomes like the best martial artist in his area at the very least. Opens up a karate scene. Like it's like a karate kid, the resurgence that's happening right now. Have any of you seen that? The Cobra Kai show? Yeah, the Cobra Kai show.

I haven't seen it yet. I hear it's pretty good. Yeah, apparently it's actually great. And the, what was the punk's name in the original movies? I can't remember. The blonde one. Which is McGee, I think. Yeah, so this, I can't remember.

Oh, yeah, but him, the story actually follows him more than the other one. And he actually opens up his own martial art school and starts teaching kids how to defend themselves and stuff. Yeah, if he did that, if he did that, it would have been similar. Right. It's as though it's like the Karate Convillain became a serial killer, is what we got instead. This is literally like a guy that works for Anne Bison. This is like indistinct, like if the new Street Fighter came out and there's a guy

named Tommy in the game, like it's this guy, straight up. I would not doubt it in a second. But unfortunately for everybody in the next 12 or so years, that's not what Tommy did. He toyed with the idea, but he looked at his father and saw two roads. The roads to menial work, even if it meant owning his own karate school, or the means to riches and mansions and kind of fame in his local area, most importantly, power. He saw all the mafia had and wanted it all as well. And it wouldn't be long before he was hanging out with the man by the name of Anthony Bruno

Indelicado. How does he handle things? He's very indelicate. Yeah, yeah. I cannot believe that's his real name. Anthony Bruno Indelicado, a man who was known purely and respected fully by the mafia for how readily he would kill someone. His nickname from the mafia was Whack Whack.

Anthony Whack Whack Indelicado. They couldn't call him Indelicado? Nope, they called him Whack Whack because he would just whack people. They should just call him killer. We didn't say, listen, the mafia, there are a lot of things. Creative isn't one of them. Good at making up nicknames. You know what though?

I want to say, low key, they're pretty good at making up nicknames. Because they're so ridiculous. Whack Whack is like a name you would give to like a cat that like got hurt and you nursed it back to health, right? But that's the murderer. Is that a name you give a cat that you nurse back to health? It is now. You know, like you'd name a cat like Stinky, buts, Whack Whack, like, you know, I don't

know. It's just a not, it's like, it's just like a weird, weird name for like, I don't know, it's funny that that's like. Does somebody we know have a cat named Butts? Yes. Yes. Yes. Gotcha.

But I just mean like Whack Whack is like not a fun, like not a, it doesn't, it's like a, it's like an ironic name. It's not. It's very funny. It's very indelicate. If you will, we got to get this guy killed. Who are we going to call? Call Whack Whack.

Whackity Whack. Don't talk back. They won't ever talk back again. Oh, he's got, he's got like a calling card and everything. He's got a business card with that saying. Whackity Whack. They'll never talk back again. Oh, shit.

Uh, somebody made it done by the guy that did the, the band that did Yackety Yack. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. They owed the mob some money and they were like, yeah, okay, we'll do it. Please. Yeah, please leave us alone. The way they describe and the way they talk about, uh, Mr. Whack Whack is that he cared

more about how he looked and how he presented himself than those he, he killed. He was very dismissive of those he killed. He saw them nothing more as work and business than as actual people. I was just thinking that he was the, like it's only business. He was that guy. Yeah. That's how they describe it. They, he was very much just a, it's only business kind of guy.

He may have killed a lot of people, but that was his job. And while that's terrible and he hopefully is in prison, they don't really say in the book, um, you know, it didn't seem like at the very least he had the mannerisms of a serial killer like Mr. Uh, Pater would have, but Mr. Delacato Whack Whack, whatever would meet Tommy eventually, very shortly after he came back from Japan, uh, and very shortly after that, Mr. and Delacato, uh, would introduce Tommy to the banana crime family. And for one reason or another, maybe they had similar ideals, maybe they had a very similar mindset, but Anthony and Delacato really grew close and kind of, uh, looked

out for Tommy in, in almost every single way, uh, Tommy on the other hand, respected Anthony and Delacato, but Mr. I don't know fucking Anthony, Tony, Tony was a massive drug addict. Tony Whack Whack. Cocaine and heroin were his drugs of choice. And if there's one thing about Tommy that sticks with him other than his high pitched voice is his disdain for drugs, at least he's straight edge. He, he's, so he would sell straight edge, he went to, he went to Japan to become martial arts master.

Yeah. He is the most straight edge guy who ever, he kills, but he's like, drugs are bad. He would dabble in them once in a while, but he always said, and the thing that people repeat constantly is that he loves to say he had control over the drugs, the drugs didn't have control over him. Oh, never mind. He wasn't straight edge. Just don't tell him how Bruce Lee died.

Right. Of course. It's, it's one of those things though that as they talk about him, he was, while people were partying and getting high and all the stuff, he never did. He always left. He never did, he never really participated. And a lot of that comes from his paranoia of always being listened or watched and he never wanted to be caught unaware where somebody could kill him easily because he was stoned

or high. Uh, he, he respected himself, I guess at the very least that way. So while he and Tommy and Tony kind of grew close to one another, it wouldn't be long until after Tommy was brought into the Bonanno crime family that Mr. Indelicato would kind of be left by the wayside by Tommy because he was used up for all he was worth. Um, now that they had a real fucking murderer, samurai, Karate hands murderer. Yeah. Wow.

The Bonanno crime family themselves immediately took a liking to Tommy. He was well put together, well dressed, respectful and built like a motherfucking truck. He was fully Italian as well and something about the mafia, at least during this time, I'm sure it's true at least now. They do not take anybody that is not of pure Italian blood, um, so that helped him quite a lot. Uh, and eventually with Bruno's blessing, uh, with, with Bruno's help rather, which is somebody they, the Anthony, he's got so many names, this is why I got confused all

the time. Uh, the Bonanno crime family would take Tommy in as an associate, an associate is someone who works and is paid by the family to do kind of side work, busy work, but they're not yet a made man. A made man in mafia means there's a whole ceremony to it. You are fully inducted into the family and are trusted with their secrets, uh, more profitable work, but also more dangerous work. And you would get-

Does that mean they'll always do right by you too? In, according to their code of ethics? Yes. As long as you follow their code of ethics, they will always defend you, uh, do what they can to get you out of trouble and look out for you. But if you cross them in any way, any minor way, that was grounds for death. Pretty much. That was kind of their, their law.

So low stress job. Yeah. Yeah, low stress job. Right. But if you become a made man and you make it to old age, usually, you know, you are now a major boss. They, the, the rankings of the way the mafia work is very much kind of reminiscent of a video game where there's like the head boss, the sub bosses, and then there's their lieutenants

and the lieutenants usually have their own little, little associates that they command around. Um, but for now, Tommy was just a glorified runner boy, but soon Paterra would earn his bones, which is a saying that they use, and get his first order to murder somebody. That means, that means getting an order to kill somebody? Yes. Okay. When you earn your bones, you are given, basically it's, it's your opportunity, not necessarily

become a made man, but it could lead that way, but to be more than an associate at the very least. And he, what they would do is they'll give you a target to kill, but they will not give you the reason that the person is being killed. They will only give you who it is and where he can be found, and you are just to do it if you want to be anything more than an associate. And because Tommy had done nothing but practice how to kill, and kind of led the past many, many years of his life learning how to fight and kill, he did it without, without questioning,

without delay. Can I ask a question as we get into this? Did he kill with guns, or is it as, like, I don't want to say cool, cause murder is never cool, but did he like, come out of nowhere with like, ninja skills? Captain, it appears his, uh, his face had been punched off. So, did he use his talents to kill, or did he just shoot people, cause that's boring if you just shot people, but I feel like he came out of the night, like an evil batman, and just took dudes out.

That'd be incredible. Tommy Patera killed many different ways. A gun is, is a tool he would use regularly. Uh, Tommy. Uh, he used ice picks a lot as well. Oh my god. Um, he would use knives, he would use swords. He had a collection of Nord's, his swords.

He used swords? Yeah, he had swords that he would use to stab people, didn't use them very- Man, I don't want to ever die by sword. That's a shitty way to go. Or an ice pick to the head, which he killed. I would, I would love, if somebody's gonna fucking murder me, and he's like, how do you want me to do it? I would be like, kill me with a sword.

That's badass. No, it's not. That's not badass. That's, you just got killed by a sword. How many people- It's 2018, you just got by a sword? Only cool people, only cool people get killed by swords in 2018. No, that's not true.

If it was, if it was 1535, I would be like, shoot me with a gun. They'd be like, I'd be like, that's impossible. Getting killed with a sword is almost like getting killed with a gun in 1535. That's badass. That's like getting killed like a fucking highlander. I love that. A sword is so silly. No, a gun.

Was it a katana? A gun is, yeah. Was it a katana? Oh my god. I wanna saw it. No. Now I have Mickey Mouse the mobster with a katana in my mind. Does he have a katana?

Yes. He of course he has a katana. Of course he has a katana. Yes. He had a ton of weapons, and we can talk about those when we get to the part where they go through his apartment and like, collect everything. Let's just say we were on the label, this is weeaboo breaking bed, literally. So the way, so if we were to label Tommy as a type of serial killer, and there's different

types, which is a whole other topic, but he would be labeled in my opinion as a product killer. He didn't, what a product killer is, is they don't particularly like the act of killing. They want the body afterward to do with what they want. And that seemed to be what his go-to was. So Tommy would always kill, almost always with a gun, but however he ended up killing it was always instant. He never tortured, nor did he care too much unless it was like something very, very personal

to him, which doesn't seem like he did ever, or at least rarely. But he would kill them, but then what he would do after that is where the kind of creepiness comes in. He would take the body, bring it to a tub, he would always make sure there was a tub nearby when he killed the person. This is breaking bad. Like a tub? And he would run, a bathtub, like a bathtub, run the water until it was a very specific

temperature, put the body in there, take his, uh, his, uh, the section, or his, uh, a ton of, what do you call it? Not anatomy tools. Autopsy tools. Autopsy tools. And he would dismember the body slowly and cleanly. And as the autopsy professionals would put it when they found the bodies, professionally almost as though a doctor did it, into six pieces.

The two legs, the two arms, the torso, and the head. And what he did afterward is he always would take a trophy of the person he killed, whether it be a piece of them or something that they owned, which in here, uh, well, the, the, the most gruesome thing is he took the head of somebody at one point and nobody knows what he did with it when he took it home. Um, and, uh, yeah, when you take something home like that in serial killer language, it's called a totem. It's a way to represent that you are better than these people, that you can take what

you want, life, or scoreboard, physical, and it's your scoreboard. And he kept them all and kept them very, very, very safe in a very, in a very specific safe that he had hidden that was kind of his vault of things that he took from these people. Um, so that's kind of the person he was. It wasn't necessarily about the tools and the way he killed. It was what he did with them afterward. Um, but like I said, kind of rolling back to his very first kill, he murdered somebody. We don't know who it was.

We never found out who it was. Never found the body as the mafia took care of it and Tommy wasn't taking care of the bodies at that particular point. Uh, and it's likely that they burned it in an oil drum or something along those lines as they typically did. But he did and soon after that, Paterra would become a made man with a full fucking ceremony that when described is really kind of cool and like this idea of like all the big bosses come around in this dark room with lit candles and shit and they, you go through an oath and

you do all this like very ritualistic shit to become a made man. And then shortly after that's when people would start to become, would start to disappear and the murders would begin on eventually found many years later, cut up and buried in cheap suitcases, but that's all going to be happening for episode two. I'm ready for this. I'm ready to get nuts. I can be real with you. Yep.

I was expecting this to be a story because I know nothing about Tommy and like older pictures of Tommy. He looks like he put on a little weight, but uh, I don't see it Tommy. I think you look great. Please don't kill me. Um, however, I expected it to be like he was just a, uh, an Italian boy who was really good at killing and they were like, oh yeah, he kills like he's Bruce Lee in the movies. And they named him Tommy Crotty.

Nowhere in this story did I think it was going to end up with him in Japan for several years for two and a half, like two years and three months or something. Getting from masters, becoming a legitimate karate master, it is crazy that that's where that story went. How are you now? Do you see why that the whole beating somebody up in prison without leaving a mark? Yes. Far fetched.

Yeah. It makes perfect sense to me. What I think is insane is that he basically Alex is right about the whole street fire thing. He basically is the villain in every karate movie. Like he trained somewhere. There was another guy who trained with him for 27 months who is the good guy in this story.

Defeat him at some point. Yeah. Yeah. Who was like, one day we will meet again and his mouth moves, but like words don't come out. Yeah. Yeah. If you want, if you want the hero of the story and you want to look him up.

His name is Jim Hunt. Who? I shit you not. Michael Hunt is his name. Jim Hunt is one of the first members of the DEA. He ever. Yes. Ever.

All right. But the DEA was named like two or three different things before it was officially called the DEA. James Hunt, DEA, New York Field Division. James Hunt literally looks like my dad with him. Well, here's the thing. Are you looking at Jim Hunt or are you looking at his father who was also an FBI mastermind James Hunt?

Well, there's James Hunt. I'm looking at James Hunt and it's a color picture. It might be. So I imagine. Okay. So yeah, that's got to be that. But the story of him is that Jim Hunt's father was also in the FBI and he was a star in the FBI.

He put away a ton of criminals and Jim Hunt was his protege and he put behind the bars. I shit you not. The sons of the people his father had put away when he was in the FBI. What in the hell? This story is insane. There's a lot of Jim Hunt's. Oh, well, yeah. That's surprising.

That's a company. Jim Hunt DEA. And you can see his picture. Yep. He worked fucking tirelessly when the Tommy Patera case came across his desk. And if it wasn't for him and his partner and the people that we may be talking about next week a little bit, Tommy Patera may not have ever been caught because Tommy Patera was incredibly good at hiding his tracks and never being seen.

Whenever he was in his own car, he always blasted the radio or put on white noise so that if he was bugged, no one could hear anything he was saying, which was true. He was being bugged all the time. He never sat in the front seat. He always sat in the back seat so nobody could get behind him. If he was at a restaurant or a club, he was always up against a wall so nobody could get behind him. The dude was like paranoid as all hell, which is why he was able to do what he did for as

long as he did it. He's a fascinating person. Horrible, horrible monster deserves life behind bars 10 times over. But man, I'm surprised there's no movie about Jim Hunt versus Tommy Patera. I wonder how he squared honor, right? Because if you went through all those years of learning about karate and learning about martial arts and learning about, I feel like someone would have taught him the idea of honor and I wonder how he squared that with killing people.

The way it's talked about is the one thing women, never, he killed, that's a lie, he killed one woman ever and he gave her like a ton of warnings ahead of time like stop doing what you're doing, stop doing what you're doing, she never listened, she always did it so he killed her out of his sense of duty and honor. But he never, he never disrespected family and women and those that were above him in the mafia, he respected and obeyed to the letter. I think he just took what he perceived as honor from his training and melded it with the mafia sense of honor and kind of had his own code of ethics.

Okay, that's how I feel, that's what he seems like. But we'll talk more about that afterward. Now for us, we won't be talking about him until we get back from IndiePopCon, so that'll be fun, a fun thing to come to. But if you guys want a little preview, if you're going to be at IndiePopCon, I'm going to tell you two what the topic is finally. Oh no, here we go. It's the demon house of Indiana.

What the fuck? Yeah, is it close enough to go to? I don't know. Oh my god. But Mr. Zach Baggins, I think is his name himself, did a whole movie on it. Zach Baggins? Yeah, the guy who did, the guy who does that. The Ghost Adventures guy?

Yes, the Ghost Adventures guy. Yes. He bought the house, he did a movie on it and then he tore it down. Because it was too scary? I guess, or you know, there's no evidence that anything was happening. But the demon house is what we're going to be talking about in IndiePopCon or have already talked about it but the 10th episode ends up going live. But that's episode one of Tommy Karate-Paterra, episode two, we'll be around in a couple

of weeks. Amazing. Hope you boys enjoyed. That was really fun. That was fun. I am blown away that that man did those things. Yeah. That's all I got to say about it.

Like I said, when I looked, I'm like, is there a movie about this guy? Nothing. There's just this book and then what you can find online. Because it seems ludicrous. It doesn't, like. What a trip. There's this to a Hollywood executive, they'd be like, that's nonsense. No one would believe that.

And yet. But it's true. It happened. And yet. Yeah. And there's all kinds of pictures of Tommy in this book with him with sunglasses on and shit and he looks like such a dork. So great.

I got it. Tommy, I don't think you look like a dork. Please don't. I haven't looked at a picture of him yet. I got to do it. Here I go. Okay. Yeah.

Go ahead. Go ahead. I want your reaction when you see Tommy Karate-Paterra. The very first photo I saw was him. He had like a gut and he was doing the splits. It was a photo that I saw. Yeah. He, uh, wow.

He looks pretty scary. He looks like, he just looks like a mobster. Right. Like, that's what I said. He looked, I thought it was just a joke. I'm calling him Tommy Karate. But really he, it's not a joke. I guess.

No. Like he's a master. Yeah. There's another, there's another mafia hit man who did get the movie treatment and everything. There's a great movie with Chris Evans and Michael Shannon out there. It's called, I believe it's called the Iceman or something like that. Iceman.

That actually sounds familiar. Yeah. He, he, uh, he did a bunch of stuff on HBO, like interviews and stuff, uh, and, and they're like really interesting, but it's, it's, it's called the Iceman. I think, yeah. It's called the Iceman and it's, and it's about this, this other mafia hit man. And then Chris Evans is his like partner who like helped him store the bodies in an ice cream truck as they like went around doing their killings.

Oh, by the way, for the record, so in karate kid, um, the crazy guy, the like, you know how there was the guy who swept the leg, but there was the other guy in the background who was like, get him. Get that guy. Yeah. Yeah. His name was Tommy. I thought you're going to be like, that was governor Chris Christie.

Oh my God. Well, like any good villain, his downfall has to do with a great FBI agent, Jim Hunt and the betrayal of one of what he considered a close friend. Wow. We'll talk about that next episode. Thank you guys so much for watching or listening. God damn it. Not watching.

I'm not doing a video. I'm doing a podcast. I mean, some people are watching it. Yeah. Some people are watching kind of, uh, anyway, thank you guys so much. We appreciate your love and support. We are very nearly crossing over 305 star reviews on iTunes. So if you will, if you listen on iTunes and you love the show, feel free to give us a

little bump there because iTunes loves their, their five star reviews for how they end up rating podcasts. Uh, again, if you're at any popcorn this weekend while we're there, say hi to us. If you see us, it'll be great to just say hi and, uh, I'm excited to do the show. Alex and Jesse, thanks for joining us for joining me on this wonderful adventure down crime lane. Hell yeah. We had a great time.

And if you guys want to chat at us, subreddit as always, chaluminati pod, uh, chaluminati pod on Twitter, Mathis games for myself, Jesse Cox for Jesse and Fasciane A for Mr. Alex. Talk to us. Tell us how much you love our stuff and we'll see you next time. Congratulations. Congratulations. Obviously. Don't listen to these idiots.

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