Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 78 - The Voynich Manuscripts

Episode Date: December 1, 2020

A trio of 1500's viral mysteries Patreon - http://www.patreon.com/chilluminatipod BUY OUR MERCH - http://www.theyetee.com/collections/chilluminati Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - http://www.youtube.com/user/ThatOneLazerClown Art Commissioned by - http://www.mollyheadycarroll.com Theme - Matt Proft End song - POWER FAILURE - https://soundcloud.com/powerfailure Video - http://www.twitter.com/digitalmuppet Update Description

Boost your savings and benefits at City Market with a free 30-day trial of a Boost by City Market membership. You'll get two times fuel points on groceries and merchandise in-store with pickup or delivery. Your fuel points add up as you shop, too, and you won't even have to drive to earn them. Plus, get free delivery on any order over $35. More savings, more benefits, on all the things you need with Boost by City Market. A new level of membership has arrived. Sign up for a free 30-day trial today at citymarket.com slash boost. $35 order minimum, restrictions apply. See site for details. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Chilluminati podcast. I have lost count. It's like

78 or 79. I'm not sure. 78. Thank you very much, Alex. I appreciate it. As always, I'm one of your hosts. Join Mike Martin. Join my two friends and other hosts of this show as another way to describe them would be Alex Foscione and Jesse Cox. Hello. That's where this is the direction I went. I don't know what to tell you. You went a direction. I could not follow you. Come on, you followed me. You were my friends and also other hosts of the show. We are also on the show, but we are also his friends. Right. You're both laugh at that. It's like a group of people who are all together and love the Chilluminati podcast. You know what I mean? I think we call those patrons. Oh, that's right. Oh, my God. Patrons head on over to patreon.com slash Chilluminati pod,

where not only can you get 15 to 25 extra minutes of this delicious show every single week, every time we put one up, you get another one. It's like bam, bam, like from the Flintstones. And we have some great monthly art that you can check out. That's amazing. And we have ad free episodes, which is another thing that's just great. And I mean, what is there? What is there to hate? Nothing, right? Nothing. The world is great and perfect. Yeah. So come on down to patreon.com slash Chilluminati pod, where you can become part of the squad. Ooh. Yeah. Chilluminati rhymed. Did you see that? What I did? No, I follow. I follow. Chilluminati pod. Right. Chilluminati squad. Yeah. No, I got you. It's party squad. Is that

what we're calling it? The Chilluminati squad. Party squad. Welcome to it. Welcome party squad members. Here's your free t-shirt cannon. Now get out there and spread the word. Chilluminati street team, a.k.a. party squad. Chilluminati death squads of parties. Oh my God. I'm just saying if you want to like take Chilluminati stickers and place them in bathrooms around your city, especially in bar stalls in the men's room of a bathroom at a bar. If you want to put Chilluminati stickers everywhere. Well, we don't do it five to six months. Oh, yeah. I keep forgetting that we're not allowed to do anything anymore. Yeah. Yeah. I don't do

it anyway. I'm not out like doing it anyway to this been eight months. I know literally touched another human being. I haven't held another human being. Have you gotten yourself a couple of extra body pillows or anything to help out surrounding my people when you go to bed? I can really take care of myself. I couldn't take care of a body pillow. Is there a Jesse Cox brand body pillow that somebody else can get? I mean, I mean, if you wanted to, you could just stick my face on like a sexy anime. Is that legal legal permission to do that? You have my legal permission to take my face and stick it on your favorite husband and or waifu and go to town. I don't care. Let's return the. Can we turn the cryptids and acute anime versions of them and make them

that exists right now? Mothman body pillow. This definitely a buff. Is it can't be not hard chunky metallic booty. I'm super excited because it's another Alex episode today, everybody. I know I promised some aliens, but aliens are going to be put on a hold for a little while. I was finally, we were handed the outline for MK ultra. And so we're going to, I'm shifting my focus and Alex is coming in the clutch, bringing in one of the topics he promises even crazier than the last. So prepare yourselves for MK ultra next week and the beginnings of and this week, Alex, I don't know all you've told me when we jumped on this call is you said you started this to be about something else, but kind of happens every time it seems like it's hard

to be on researcher. You know what I mean when when you're on the open road and anything can happen? Speaking of research, I looked up Mothman body pillow. I did not find Mothman. However, I did find a full body Stalin body pillow. This is a case. Just in case none of it exists. You want to be like, where are the mass graves located? Just whisper it into his ears. As you're cuddling with him in the night. The crazy thing is, this isn't like full uniform Stalin. It's like frozen winter Stalin. What do you mean frozen like like serve like survival, but like kind of grizzly looking like his snow, like his preserved corpse or like in the zoom chat. He's like, you know, it looks like he's out in the middle of Siberia. Yeah. I'm so cold out

there. If you couldn't find a Mothman body pillow, it's time, boys. I found this on Redbubble. Oh my God, it's not sexy at all. No, it just looks like somebody turned a picture on his side, like click the 90 degree button. I did. I did find sexy though. If you click that Redbubble link, Mothman with sexy legs throw pillow. That's kind of sexy. It's a little friendly. It's like kid friendly. Sexy like it's sexy, but it's kid friendly. Yeah, it's like 1920s. Sexy, yeah. Sexy for work. Yeah. Anyway, I digress. You know me. Don't worry. I'm gonna have the Yeti tonight now. Yeah. Yeah. It's oh, so easy. Done print million dollars. Okay. Well, hey, hi. We can't we can't start yet. We can't start yet. What's up? I just need to we I hit jackpot.

I found what we were looking for. There you go. Okay. There is an actual cryptid body pillows website. Oh my God. Mothman. It even has aliens, dude. Yeah. Oh, dude. It has half of it. Honestly, shout out to these people. This is a genius idea that probably doesn't get enough attention. Let's just reach out. Huge fan of the Bigfoot. Bigfoot is like draw me like one of your French women. It is. It really is. That alien is the worst one. That's the one that my eyes keep going back to. I don't know what to tell you. He's just so he looks like Iggy Pop. He's just so rope like with his Nessie. Nessie looks like ropey body. You know those hot dragons that fuck airplanes? It looks like a pregnant Pokemon. Yes. It looks like that to me. Yeah. Yeah. I'm into it. Pokemon

DeviantArt. Yeah. It doesn't come on. DeviantArt. Yeah. It's got like a flipper on its belly or something like I've got a baby inside. It really does. It really does. No, no, for everyone buying these. Please keep in mind that this listing is for the body pillow cover. It does not include any stuffing. It's ridiculous. It's an investment, these body pillows. Right. I might have to buy the alien one. Let's just reach out to them and do a branded deal. Maybe we can do the alien and he's wearing the Chilluminati Limited Edition hat and hoodie. That's what we can do for Christmas for each other. We get each other one of these. I don't know. I say we get this Bigfoot. This Bigfoot is looking nice. They can drop my face onto the Bigfoot. Oh, that would be so good. Oh,

man. The Chilluminati symbol carved into my forehead with a knife. I also discovered that they have Marvel villains versions, which is very nice. Oh, that is sick. Just in case you don't have any time. Snuggly with Kodak. Yeah, full body pillow. Amazing. Venom. Without fail, we're going to have a comment on the YouTube version of this that has this like they stop bullshitting at X time and the episode gets started. So, you know, screw you. This is a good time. Mothman believes in you, y'all. If you don't believe in Mothman, Mothman believes in you. I kind of wish the Mothman one was a little sexier. Yeah. It's always how it goes with a Mothman. He's, you know, getting there. Isn't that the way? The moment and then he's, yo, yo, yo. And suddenly it's hard to

focus and you don't perform the way you want it to. Anyway, you know me. You know me. I'm always trying to find the weirdest, most messed up stuff that people are talking about online. Do you look for it? Does it find you? It's, it's a little bit of both. Like I say, I always start out looking for one thing and then I end up on another thing. You know what I mean? That's what I'm saying. That's why I'm wondering. The chluminats are hungry. You know what I mean? Are we still saying chluminats? Yeah, I think we are. Chluminats is a very popular definition for our listeners so far. But as is per use, I ran. Children is still out there. I'm just saying. Children is creepy. Children, I don't like, because it makes you pause in a weird way that I don't like.

It has an advantage to the word chluminat. That was the rule of calling them children. It's worse. It's worse. All right. So here's the, here's the problem that I've been finding lately with this, with this, with this criteria for episodes is that like the same stuff that I'm always returning to the well for happens to be very popular among a like slightly younger, like trending Gen Z sort of like YouTuber phenomenon, which is this like sort of dark child's like moody YouTube channel type stuff. And they're, they're going to the same well that I'm going to, which is just like Reddit and all these things. But they have like millions of views on these videos and they run subreddits that are like the main subreddit.

It's like our paranormal and it's like run by this person. So I don't think it's actually our paranormal, but you know what I'm saying? There's like top tier subreddits about this stuff and they just comb them for ideas. So it's really hard to find. If you've ever been to our paranormal, it's not top tier. Yeah. I mean, I'm just saying, you know what I'm saying? Like, wow, wow. I'm just thinking a joke, bad joke, but it's just out to the mods of our paranormal. You guys are great. But yeah, I don't like this because I don't want to repeat these people, you know, even though a lot of the time the videos that do come out aren't 100% correct factually, which I find when I do end up doing a vid, like I'll do an episode on something and then I'll watch like three videos

on it afterwards because I can't stop thinking about it. And they'll be like little things that are like wrong, you know, and, and that's even more so than my own poorly researched nonsense that I say on this podcast, you know, like stuff that's just patently incorrect. And so today, in, to sort of combat that, I decided to look for an internet mystery somewhere that they would never think to look and that people in younger generations never bother with anyway. And that is where we go with this. That is the time before the internet existed. And I found some very good little mysteries today for you and some that maybe you haven't heard of already and some that you probably have, but that's okay. But if Lake City Quiet Pills and Captain Kuchi's Keyline

Pie were like the Batman Beyond style mysteries, I don't know if you guys remember that incredible analogy that I made. It's not a good, it's not a good analogy, doesn't really make sense. But these ones are like, if that was Batman Beyond, this is like an old tapestry of a real bat who doesn't fight crime. Because all of these viral internet mysteries date from before the year 1500 and have a surprising amount of information about them. Okay. So without any further ado, before the year 1500 mysteries, these are going to be, yes. And the reason, and the reason that I decided to go to this is because of the promise that I made last week and the reaction that it got from like everybody. So let's just start with that story that I talked about last week briefly,

which was the one about the weird green kids. If you remember, when I brought that up briefly during the show, you guys were like, wait, what about the green kids? And I was like, I'll get to the green kids. Yeah, please, please. I need closure on this. So this one comes to us primarily from right up on a site called historical blindness by a guy called Nathaniel Lloyd, which I think is also a podcast. But I got some info also from some readers digest things that I've saved from my late grandma over the years. So shout outs to Nathan or Nathaniel, shout outs to my grandma. And before you ask listeners out there who know what's what, this is the McRib grandma, but I don't need to get into that right now. So I'm not going to tell that story again.

But this first story that we're going to get into today is old enough that it first went viral in the 19th century. Okay. In the 1800s, when a man called Thomas Keatley finally translated the Latin originals into English, right? But as there is no worse time in history for people just taking fake shit and running with it than the 19th century besides like 2020. Let's go to a time before it was the international sensation that it became in the 1850s. You know, this is already this is such an old mystery that it was like an old mystery in the 1850s when it like came out and everybody started talking about it. And it was so popular in the 1850s that they had like a spin off of the story that happened with like all the same details in Bagnos Spain,

except it was in the 1800s. And that one along with this one possibly even started the little green men trope, which, yes, Mathis is also pretty likely for these things to a time when this story was merely a bizarre note in two separate books from all the way back in the twelfth century. Are you not to give me some ancient aliens, Alex? It's not even close to what you're imagining. It's called The Cron Icon Anglicanum by Rafe Codgesel. I'm trying to do these British UK old pronunciations correctly. Rafe Codgesel and the historian Batman, right? And the historian and this is story of Rerum Anglicanum by William of Newborough, Newborough. Okay. And actually, it was the one from William from the Newborough Priory in Yorkshire that came

first by about 25 years in 1198, by the way, with the one from Codgesel appearing around 1220 or a little after. But the extra time for the one in 1220 did give the abbot who wrote it more time to gather info and actually talk to people who were involved, while the other one is more just like a straight account of something that they heard. So both are pretty vital to putting together the sequence of events we have now. So I kind of dip into both of them, but I'll tell you when they diverge from each other. So firstly, according to William, this happened during the reign of King Stephen, Stephen, Stephen, PH, which was from between the years 1135 to 1154. So that's the best we can do on the years that we know was

during this King's reign. And both accounts mention that the village where this all allegedly went down was in County Suffolk, East Anglica, and was called Woolpit. And also, it's not really related to the story at large, but it's a neat detail. So I'm going to say it. You might imagine that this place was called Woolpit because of something having to do with sheep, because you think of England, you almost think of sheep, almost like shepherd's pies and whatnot, right? But it's actually the opposite, because the name was most likely in reference to some actual pits that the Romans made there, which were baited for the capture of like wolves. So it was like wolf pits. Like if you can imagine wolves being such a problem, way, way worse. Yeah. Now, look, it was

definitely still just the 1100s. So when I say a lot was going on in this area, it's only relative, right? But back in the Middle Ages, when this was going down, the area was very fertile, very verdant. And it was fairly close to Burry St. Edmunds, which was the sort of like market town of the area, if you can imagine, like where everybody came to sell their wares and whatnot. And so there was plenty of roads around, even though it was the 1100s and stuff to get around by. So these people were like as worldly as you could be as English peasants at the time. You know what I mean? Not worldly enough for this experience, but worldly enough that like these aren't just like plebs that don't know shit and they just think everything is weird. You know

what I mean? Yeah. They're worldly folks. So because one summer day, probably in July for a reason, we know it's July for a reason I'll mention later, some workers out in the field during the harvest actually notice what they believe to be two children literally emerging from one of these wolf pits, one little girl and one little boy, like crawling from the wolf pits. Okay, that's horrifying. Which is crazy. But the thing was, even though they were mostly pretty much what you'd expect a boy and a girl to look like, one head, two arms, two legs. You know, boy and girl. Yeah. Boy and girl. These ones had very bright green skin, like insanely bright green skin, according to the accounts. And apparently their clothes were of

colors and a style unrecognizable, even to those who regularly saw merchants from other countries, right? All right. So they were skittish and ginger towards the field workers that saw them as they like sort of like, you know, like you see some kids come out of the wolf pit, you're going to come try and help them even if they're green. Maybe they're just really sick, man. You don't know. So they're sitting there and they're like freaking out and they start speaking to each other and they're talking in a language very panicked, but nobody had ever even heard this language before. It's not like it's Spanish and nobody can speak it because you would hear Spanish and you would recognize it as Spanish. You know what I mean? And there's a lot of merchants in this area,

so you're going to hear a lot of different tongues. You know what I mean? So this was a language that even those people did not recognize. And so they were worried about this kid's safety and so they decided to take them to the manor of like a local knight who lived in the nearby town of Waik and he's Sir Richard of Khan, but that's spelled with an L. Kaln. Kaln. Right. So you take him to the manor of Sir Richard. And here is the detail of this story that so tantalized you last week during the post story, which is that at this point they were offered all manner of food, any food that the knight had. And even though they literally looked like they were starving to death, like they were not looking good. They were looking emaciated. They turned it all away,

but not in a way where they were like grossed out by it, but almost like they didn't even recognize that it was edible food. No interest. Right. But this is why we know it's July is because by chance someone brought in some fresh cut broad beans from the fields and July is when things like July harvest, which are fava beans and the kids as soon as they saw them, they went crazy for them. But the weirdest part about it was when they saw the plants first, they started ripping into the the stocks of the plants and like not realizing that there were beans in the pods. Like they just went for the they went for like the middle of the plant, which is like super weird. But they ended up eating the beans anyway. And they basically

subsisted on them for weeks and weeks and weeks until slowly, but surely they were weaned off of that food and onto a normal selection of foods. And slowly over months, their skin allegedly went from like the green that it was to the more human colors that you would expect. And eventually, just like everyone England had not run into before, they were baptized. Right. Just give them Jesus. So we're already in a very weird place. But this is where the story takes a dark turn. Because at this time, the girl eventually like evened out and had a normal life as far as we know, the boy slowly got sicker and sicker until finally he just died. Damn. But obviously, this was 1100. So it could have just been

he could have just fucking died because it was cold. Who knows. But they said it was just eating food and not being where he belonged and that he like didn't ever adapt to the new world that he was in. So we will go with that. The kid, the boy died. But slowly and surely the girl learned to eat and even more importantly for us over the years was able to learn English to the point that eventually Sir Richard was finally able to like ask her where the fuck she came from and what her deal was. And now this is where we get some big diversions in the story. So you're just going to have to like stick with me on that. But here's like the story at large. I'll I'll lay it out for you, but just follow me through this. So so she said she said she said she came from a land where

everything was green and lush and also where the sun never really completely came out to have the day and night that we know instead it was more like a perpetual twilight mist all the time is what she said. And she said that she and her brother were just having a normal day where they live tending to the family's cattle. Some of the cattle ran off into a cavern disappeared. They followed them and they heard the sound of bells. And when they followed the sound of bells far enough, they eventually walked out into like a blindingly bright world in the pit and they climbed out of the pit and they're now with a cattle worm. They were in the these are what they're known as terrestrials. Dude, I couldn't even tell you. But here's here's the point where we get to some differences, right?

So in Wraith of Codgesles version, the story was told to Sir Richard the night by the girl after she had become a servant in his in his household known for her quote, wanton and impudent ways. And she lived there for the rest of her days. And that's how we got the story, etc. But according to William of Newborough, who again, though technically the first source still only wrote it like 40 or 50 years after the fact, right? It's like 1198 we have this from. So even then this happened in the 30s, 1130s to 1150s. The girl went on to according to him, the girl went on to marry some dude in the nearby town of Lynn, where she not only first told her part of the story, but was still living at the time of writing for Williams in 1198. So his

version of the story says that she came from a place called Saint Martin's land and that everyone there actually knew about Christianity and like looked up to and venerated Saint Martin as like a key figure in their culture. And this isn't totally crazy anyway, because back in the day, people who were Christian were really all about like the saints, like that's like, you know, in some pockets of the of the of the world, that's still a big deal. But in America, you know, typically that's not a big deal to people. And I'm not, I'm not trying to be offensive, but I grew up Catholic. But the saints almost take the place of like minor gods and other religions. Yeah, it's like they always represent they always represent something

very specific that they can help you with. I remember being taught to pray, I think it was just like Saint Christopher, if I ever lost anything, because he was the patron saint of helping you find things. That's like, it's like yokai. Yeah, they really are. Yeah. But but there is a Saint Martin's like Harvest Festival Feast Day thing in November that was kind of like a Halloween Thanksgiving fusion. So like, you know, he was a major saint, Saint Martin is like a fairly major saint. But it gets weirder because William's also his version also says her weird twilight realm that she was talking about actually exists across a great river. And that the people who live there could actually see our bright normal

lit land on the other side of the river. And his version also leaves out the cave part and says that she just followed her cows and just heard the bells somewhere in the woods and just came out. But that doesn't explain why they came out of a wolf pit. Or why their skin is green. Yeah, it doesn't explain really why their skin is green. But it's why it changed to normal. Yeah. And unless they meant, yeah, I don't know. Yeah. Sorry, I'm just gonna I'm gonna use a little bit here. I wonder, you know, if we're going to the realm of fantasy, if we're saying this that these two people came like they were living underground, maybe their skin was like a dark gray or like a

dark green or something like that because they don't get a lot of sunlight or something. I don't know. So you think maybe like it's like the blue is like because they're out of their or the green is like because they're out of their normal habitat. I see what you're saying. Yeah, I mean, like if they if they live somewhere where there's no light, like it could be an adaptation, right? But wouldn't the adaptation be less skin pigmentation? Yeah, that's true. Yeah, it wouldn't be darker. Unless unless it's like a big monster comes and eats them, you know, maybe they got to blend in with the swamps. Maybe it's survival to hide from whatever hunts them down there. But they wrecked us obviously. Landed them off. I get it. What is it, the Morgites and the and the and the Aloys,

what are they called? Oh, the reptilians would be the ones you really have to worry about because reptilians in some theories come from Earth. What's the H2L's ones, the Morgoth's and the Shakerhead Jesse, the Morgoth's and the and the and the Aloys. The Aloys. I don't think they're the Aloys. I'm almost positive it is. I can't remember, though. But if we move the story forward a couple years, check on in on it again. We do get some more sources in the 16th century, like Britannia, which is a 1586 work by William Camden, who's a very famous historian, who refers to them as, quote, of a satyr's kind and, quote, like like a satyr and, oh, yes, we're from the antipodes, OK, which kind of gives a more wild child sort of magical

vibe to the whole story. By the way, just a heads up. Yeah. It's Morlocks. Morlocks and Eloys. Eloys. See, what is this in reference to? It's a time machine. Time machine. What is that? What is Aloy? Wait, no, I think Aloy is the main character of Horizon Zero Time. That's what I, every time you said that, that's what I would think of. Yeah. Is that the one where the man sticks his arm out while he's in the time machine and the arm gets old, but he doesn't. I don't. Maybe that's the movie version, but is that the movie version that I know and not the the Morlocks and the Aloy are like two species that humans evolved into. Yeah, because he went in forward in time and had like encountered them, right? Yeah. Yeah,

that's a movie about that. It was bad. That's like the twist of it. I've only seen the whole movie. He goes way, way, way far in the future, like a ridiculously far time in the future. And he just, yeah, he discovers that, you know, there's underground English people and they're Morlocks and they kind of look like golems, kind of. And then there's the Aloy, which are like, hello. It sounds like Mrs. Doubtfire. They're like livestock. Like the humans turned themselves into livestock and predators, which we actually did in about 1983. But anyway, Britannia, Cedar kind from Antipodes, wild child vibes. Some people were kind of drawing comparisons between these kids and maybe like the green man of like myth, you know, from that area

or the green night. If you've ever heard that story, it's a Arthurian legend, all sort of wrapped up into this sort of like green forest people, wild child vibe, the green giant, which is different from what we're thinking of when we think of Satyrs, right? Like we're thinking of like literally goat guys with pants, which they're not really saying that. They're just saying like they're of the fairy people. They're of the fey realm. Yeah. And then the Antipodes is actually also weird because some people today, when I say Antipodes, you might imagine Australia or New Zealand as the Antipodes, because that's something that people call those places in like a sort of antiquated way. And indeed in New Zealand, there are the Antipodes Islands, which are real place.

That's not populated, but they're part of New Zealand. But what it really means is like polar opposites, like specifically like on the globe, like if you like the thing that people used to say when you're a kid, like where you like dig all the way down through the earth and pop out in China or whatever you would be going to the Antipodes of where you are. And it's not exact. But I think the reason that Antipodes means New Zealand and Australia is that they are fairly antipodal, antipodal to that area of Europe. Like I think like Spain and Ireland is more accurate than England exactly for New Zealand, but it's like it's pretty fucking close. But the guy who wrote this article, Nathaniel Lloyd, also says that somewhere along the way,

this logical definition of Antipodes sort of got mixed up with a more like fantastical interpretation of something like the underworld or like like the upside down, kind of like an opposite world from stranger things. And that's kind of, I think what they mean here when he says the Seder kind from the Antipodes is more like these like wild green people from the other place, you know what I mean? Rather than like Australian goat men, you know what I mean? And this kind of pigeonholes these kids into that fairy tale realm. And to be honest, there's tons of stories of like things like this who like their whole thing is they don't want food and then they like slowly acclimate one of them maybe dies. Like that whole thing, I think started

with these green kids. But by the 1600s, people weren't sure which was which, right? And around this time, there was a guy named Edmund Haley, Haley, you know, the Comet dude, who was just like this super genius polymath explorer guy, a fucking fascinating individual who was searching for an explanation for the magnetic compass variations that he was logging as he was sailing around the planet on his like science vessels, like 50 foot long ship that he had for studying. And he landed on the theory of a hollow earth. But it wasn't like just the hollow earth, it was like the hollow earth with like another mini earth on the inside to explain the four poles that he was sensing. Gotcha. Even going so far as to say, quote, I have

no no no. Subterranean orbs capable of being inhabited and to suggest that maybe there was some sort of like bizarre material on the inside that was sort of giving the half light effect for another race that lived on the inside, like the wool pit girl said in her story. I can believe it. I can believe it. You can believe it. This was happening in real science, like real scientists were saying this, you know what I mean? At the time. And so in kind of in scientists from the 1500s were not just imagine that these were the most trusted people and they were saying maybe this was it. And so by 1691, people already knew the old story. And they heard these details and they were just sort of putting two and two together and just being like maybe that's what that was.

And slowly, the hollow is warmed by the by the warm core of the earth. Yeah. And the hollow earth gives way to like a more evolved theory. It evolves like as people move away from the hollow earth theory, it's like realistic. It moves to like moon colonies, you know, like the time of the John Carter episode two and three of Chiluminati, if you remember, hollow moon, hollow earth. Yeah. But the story kind of remained the same. Some details, the twilight world, the strange clothes. And eventually we get to a point where a modern writer and astronomer named Duncan Lunan suggests scenario where the Knights Templar got access to alien technology. And here's a quote from him. Templars using wind power, water power and methane digesters running on

horse dung to charge up devices, which let them walk between worlds. And that somehow they, the kids maybe accidentally found their way through one from a planet that was in synchronous orbit, which allowed only life in a narrow zone around the equator. This is fucking insane, Alex. Do you, what the fuck? Right? Because one side of the planet would always be too high and won't be too cold. The Knights Templar got alien technology powered by horse shit so they could teleport between material realms. Possibly. No, no, possibly. I can't even, I can't even go there. Let's put it this way. That's the trajectory of the theory, right? All right. You know, and as crazy and unprovable as the story gets at this point, right? It seems

that based on the information at the very least, those original two writers from the 12th and 13th century really did believe that they were reporting something that was real. And as this article that I read points out, William of Nuber, Nuber, he kept it real. Actually, even acknowledging how wild the story was when he puts it in his book to like justify it. He actually, here's a quote from him. He says, certainly I long hesitated about this matter, although it is spoken up by many people. It seemed to me ridiculous to take on a trust, take on trust, a story that had either no rational basis or a very obscure one. At last, I was overcome by the evidence of so many witnesses of such weight so that I was forced

to believe it and to marvel at what for all my strength of mind I cannot grasp or fathom. And to me, I really feel, sir, I don't think he's a sir, but William of Nuber. I really feel for this guy. I get it. Because you want to believe. I want to believe. So does William. And she's there still alive, right? You said she's alive at this point in the point of writing. At 1198, according to his story, yes, she's alive and she's living with. She's adapted incredibly well. She's just a human. So what the heck is this? What could they be? Right? Like, you know, there has to be, there has to be some explanation. So one story commonly referred to as the babes in the woods, which we know about from a ballad from like 400

years after the Wolpit story in the 17th or 16th century. You know, we know this story, but it's only set like 30 miles from Wolpit. And it's so similar that it bears mentioning, you know. So the story goes, these two kids were left with their shitty uncle after their father dies untimely. But rather than like take care of the kids, he just takes them out to the woods and kills them to get their inheritance, right? And it's like a sad song, right? And it's like I thought this was like Hansel and Gretel, but no, he just did it. No, he just did ask kills him. Okay. And according to that version of the story, the kids just die out in the woods and never come back, right? But because history is kind of amorphous and weird, especially when it comes to antiquity,

and some people maybe think that what we think of as the Wolpit kids originated here in its full form, even though there's evidence of it existing before, like, you know, they think it's all maybe in the miasma of one thing. They connected with the explanation that the weird green skin that these kids had was maybe caused by the uncle trying to get them to drink arsenic before leaving them in the woods. Right. But if you are the type of person who looks up pictures of people who die in bad ways, arsenic, even if you take a lot of it really only darkens your skin after prolonged exposure to it. And this article suggests that the main reason people conflate these ideas just comes again from the 1800s later when it was like a viral hit. Because at the same time that

the story was going around in the 1850s and just being passed around in wacky pamphlets and stuff of crazy stories, there was like a rash of arsenic poisonings going around based on the green dye that was in like close. People were realizing that green dye was like poisoning people. So people were like, green, green kids, arsenic, arsenic kids, green dye kids, right? So they, you know, people think that maybe it just sort of like merged together, but it doesn't explain like the weird clothes. It doesn't explain her like fucking weird story. It doesn't explain why they only eat fucking fava beans and they like turn green or whatever. There's a lot of bizarre details. That's like a great detail. The fava beans. Yeah, it's great detail. I don't know what it means,

but it's great. Yeah. Another more fact based version of this comes from a writer from the late 1990s, a guy called Paul Harris, who published his version in a journal called Fortean Studies Four. It's like a reg, like it's the fourth edition of the journal, which asserts that maybe the kids were just the children of Flemish settlers who lost their parents, right? Flemish is a, you know, it's a fairly different language from English. Lessor like people from Flanders is a very small place. Like, you know, it's the sort of today Belgium is like Flemish, right? Sure. And apparently there were some anti Flemish laws, though, that were actually passed in 1154, which is the year that the end the end year of King Stephen's reign. So that actually still falls within the story time.

And it displaced a bunch of Flemish immigrants in the region because they they didn't want Flemish people there. And so they had to be like on the road, right? It accounts for their bizarre language and also their weird clothes because Flemish outfits and English outfits at the time were very alien to each other. And it's a rare place to be from, you know, and maybe even allows for the green skin, which maybe could be attributed to something called either chlorosis or hypochromic anemia or green sickness where the green sickness where either you have low intake or you have diminished iron absorption for some reason, which can result not only in general weakness, indigestion and shortness of breath, but also

key loss of appetite and a distinct green tinge to the skin. Right. And this guy also says that Belgium, which I just said is a very Flemish place, actually did venerate St. Martin as the patron saint of children, which also kind of like connects a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. But also he brings up the fact that just north of the market town that I mentioned earlier, Burri St. Edmunds and across the River Lark, there was a village called Fornum St. Martin. Right. Yeah. I mean, that that's where I would go if I had to judge this story. Yeah, that sounds totally feasible. But neither of these places obviously are in perpetual twilight. And if this was where they were talking about 10 miles away, you would think

that Sir Richard the Knight or at someone around who was talking to this woman in English would have at least recognized the 10 miles away village and been like Fornum St. Martin across the river, where you said it was from, you know, like, so, you know, I think a lot of people make the mistake of assuming that people back in the day weren't educated or like didn't have the common sense that we have now, which they did, you know what I mean? Like they were able to act on their full knowledge. So it's unlikely that she would have said all that and he wouldn't have been like Fornum St. Martin, the village, right? And also the fact that their idea of their weird language being Flemish, like, yes, it's a rare language, but also like there were enough Flemish

people at the time that they were passing laws against Flemish people. So I would say maybe it was possible to identify a Flemish person if there was enough problem amongst the like sort of I don't want to say racist, but just like xenophobic English people that they wanted to get rid of them, you they would at least recognize them, right? Yeah. And also if you if you look at if you really look at the green skin that's caused by chlorosis, which you know, it's also super common to the point of like a tinge, right? It's not like green skin. Well, also everybody had fucking anemia in the Middle Ages, because it was fucking 1198. So anybody who saw anemia would be like, oh, you have anemia. And it's really, yeah, like you're saying, it's very pale gray, very like

maybe a little yellowish. I would not say that they turned like Zoe's Aldana green. Gamora. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like which is what I believe the other accounts of these kids are describing. I got you. And Harris actually the writer actually acknowledges this fact. And he settles on the much weirder explanation that they dyed themselves green for camouflage in the woods, which to me seems fucking insane and like very impractical that two kids would do that at best. Yeah, I'm trying to think, OK, what if they what if it's a mix of like they were Flemish kids and they came up with a plan to hide themselves in the woods and then literally speak nonsense to each other and paint themselves and they get themselves green. That's a lot. Get a body sized

amount of dye as a child. And then why would you climb a wolf pit? You know what I mean? I don't know, man. I don't know. It's all it's too. It's like it's like all your mysteries. There's like two or three elements that just never can be explained by the answers you have. Yeah. I mean, it's it's always there's always a missing piece, right? But that my my good boys is the weird story of the kids who ate only beans. I. Yeah. Love it. I don't understand it. Like it seems like there should be some sort of historical record for, you know, because I mean, even if you eat too many carrots, right, too much beta carotene can change the way you look, but not like where you are orange.

Like you can turn a little orange, but you don't turn like. Orange like orange hulk orange. I guess I guess the color green is I'm imagining like a green person rather than just like a little tinge of green in your skin because you've eaten the wrong thing. And that's really what it like seems like it is, you know, like when they are writing about it seems like they're very green. But that's nowhere near the close. We're not close to the end of this Chunky Boy episode. Not yet. I promise you three things. Yes. And that was just the first. So for now, as a meaty interlude between these two lesser known stories that are going to book

end this episode, here's one that you have probably heard before, probably not at this depth, and which depending on what you believe is either one of the greatest hoaxes ever propagated upon the historical community or one of the most tantalizing pieces of writing ever written. That's right. You know it. You love it. Up next, it's the Voynich manuscript. Now, now this is a story that's all over the internet on every listicle imaginable. But the version of this tale that I am going to tell you comes largely from a New Yorker article by Josephine Livingstone called The Unsolvable Mysteries of the Voynich Manuscript, which I found to be very well researched, very credible document.

And there have been some upstate updates since and I will get into those and I will mention a lot of the other places that I went for this because like I said, people write about this shit a lot. So you guys ready? Yeah. Have you heard of the Voynich manuscript? Yeah. No. No, you haven't. I am not. I'm going to shut up. I was about to be like, for those who don't know, you don't know. So I don't know the details. We're going to just break it down. The Voynich manuscript is a handwritten original manuscript that has been carbon dated back to the 15th century. It is carbon dated. Though the versions that you've looked at online are probably slightly larger than the real thing, which I know for a fact they are. The original is only about nine

inches tall, six inches wide and two inches thick, like a summer poolside reading novel size. Jesse, you still there? I'm still here. Okay. Cool. We also know that it was rebound in the Renaissance era in something that has been referred to as limp vellum. And since 1969, it has been housed at the Beinecke Rare Book and Manuscript Library at the Yale University. Okay. Inside of it, it is filled with pages and pages of text, bizarre diagrams, and paintings of plants. But no one has any idea what any of it means, really, because even though in every other way it is the same as many, many books from medieval times, the one truly unique thing about it is that the language that it's all written in is a complete mystery to

everyone who has seen it for the last 100 years at least. Huh. Right. Also, it is split up into several sections, which get more and more bizarre as you go on. The first section, which makes up about half the book is the herbal section, contains all the plant paintings I just mentioned. And actually, there's a lot of examples of medieval books like this. Think about, I mean, not from medieval times, but just think about like something like the Audubon books or Darwin, where they're just going out and they're painting things, same type of deal. That's true. But in the Voynich manuscript, none of these paintings are of plants that ever seem to have existed, though they do seem realistically created at the very least,

but they are mystery plants that nobody knows. A lot of detail into a fantasy plant. Exactly. The next part of the book, which is beyond the second half of the book, the next part is the astrological section, which I mean, they call it that. But really, it's just a bunch of those sort of like weird circular star drawings that you might see, like with the zodiac symbols kind of deal. And that's followed by the much more interesting balneological section, which shows a bunch of nude women in pools of liquid that are connected to each other through weird tubes that go back and forth across the text. And some people use the look of this part of the book to support their theory that 13th century philosopher and alchemist

Roger Bacon wrote the book because these types of drawings are typical of alchemical writings. Okay. But if you see them, trust me, they look pretty fucking weird. And the next to go look it up yet. I'm trying to wait until after this. The next two parts are something like recipes. The first bit pertaining to applications of these weird made up plants from the herbal section and the second bit may be pertaining to foods or whatever. But obviously, nobody can read Voynich cheese as they call it. So nobody knows for sure. And they can't break it down. Like they can't like figure it out like a decoding of a language. If you were to go look at it right now, Mathis, stop what we're doing.

Yeah, you can look it up right now. Describe to us what you see. You will not be able to really, truly do so. How do I look at it? Voynich manuscript. It'll come up. Okay. Yep. Let me see. What do you see? Give us the description of what you're looking at. Right now the picture is like a blue flower with teeth. And like four red flowers, two on each side. And the writing looks like almost English. You know what I mean? Like it looks like the 16th century blocky structure of English letters. Yes. But the letters themselves are not actually letters. Right. And speaking of the language, and I'm calling it Voynich cheese because that's what

people call it, right? But I should get this out of the way right now. This book is not actually called the Voynich manuscript. That is what we call it because a man called Wilfred Michael Voynich was the name of the rare book dealer who bought it in 1912 and sort of like introduced it to the modern world, right? And apparently when he bought it, it came with a 17th century letter from a man named Johannes Marcus Marcy who was a Bohemian scholar from the part of Europe we now know as Prague, the capital city of the Czech Republic. And when I say Bohemian, I mean from the actual Bohemian area, not like Mulan Rouge, right, who said that originally the book was, quote, sold to Holy Roman Emperor Rudolph II at a reported price of 600 ducats

and that it was believed to be a work by Roger Bacon, right? So that Roger Bacon theory is like old school and is tied to him buying the book. It's like a note that actually came with the book from the 17th century. So that's why people give any credit to that. Okay. It was also later explained by Voynich that he believed that Rudolph II bought this book off the strange occultist and academic John D who was said to have coined the phrase the British Empire and spent the last 30 years of his life studying sorcery and communicating with angels through various scribes and crystal gazers of the time, like Edward Kelly, the guy who's supposed to have the philosopher's stone and the secret of turning base metals into gold, like the alchemist, right?

That's who that's who he was working with. So John D, we don't know that this is John D's book was ever John D's book. His diary doesn't have a record of him selling it to Rudolph II, which you might mark down in your diary if you sold a book to the Emperor of Rome. But it was something that was completely in his wheelhouse because he was known to own a copy of a book called The Book of Soyga, which is a book about magic and magic adjacent stuff, had a lot of incantations and also had some enciphered elements to it. And he really did have that book. So the idea of him having this book too, it's not out of nowhere, right? But anyway, after Emperor Rudolph II had it, apparently it was just bounced around Prague

for a long time. There was one dude, Barcius, who described it as, quote, a certain riddle of the Sphinx, a piece of writing in unknown characters. So we know that even back in the 1600s, people were like vexed by it until it finally vanished from the historical record in 1670 until Voynich bought it 242 years later in 1912, right? And Voynich, as this article points out in a new profile that Yale put out a new edition of the Voynich manuscript recently that you can buy, I think, and it comes with a bunch of, like, errata, like a bunch of extra writing. And they did a profile on Voynich for it. And he's a pretty fucking interesting dude. He was born in Poland in 1864. Allegedly, he spoke 20 languages. He was arrested when he was 21 years old for being

a member of a social revolutionary group called the Proletariat Party. He got exiled to Siberia for that for five years before he escaped all the way to Hamburg, Germany, and then bartered his waistcoat and glasses for a trip to England, where he became a follower of a Russian intellectual who was known as Sergius Stepniak, who fled to London in 1878 for assassinating the head of the Russian secret police in the streets with a dagger. Jesus Christ. And then that dude got struck and killed by a train in Chiswick in 1895. Also, these pictures are fucking wild. Yeah, I told you, man. Look at those. They're so crazy. It looks like a lot, too, in these pages. It looks like the same word over and over and over and over and over again. Yeah, I don't. I'm not.

I'm not a hundo on that. I don't know that. I haven't, like, looked into the mechanics of the cryptography too hard. Yeah, we get into it a little bit here, but, like, I don't really know how it's laid out or anything. It's very complex. There's a lot of thought that it could just be gibberish, because a lot of what's in it, you would think if it's words, there would be things like, oh, this is similar to this and using this way. But so far, no one's been able to decipher it because it's all, like, gobbledygook and randomized and no one knows. There is no sort of Rosetta Stone for this thing. No, absolutely not. So after he ran with that crowd and he was just like crazy, like Russian revolutionary expatriate, expat, cool guy, edgelord. He, like,

settled down, settled his life down, became a really good and well-respected book dealer who loved to, like, show people his bullet wounds and his sword wounds. He was like that type of guy. Even though, according to the profile, one time he accidentally sold a forgery to the British Museum, but we all do that at least once in our lives. Yeah, at least once in our lives. We got to make that kind of mistake. So, yeah. So in 1903, there was the nine-year process, very weird, not common for it to take nine years to sell some books. But he got involved in this, like, transaction where a bunch of rare books from the Collegio Romano in Italy, they're like Roman College, were being sold to the Vatican

and somehow, in some sort of, like, backdoor secret way, Voynich was able to, like, intercept a couple of the books and one of them happened to be what would eventually become the Voynich manuscript, right? And he was smart. He, he, he, I get the sense that he knew what he had as soon as he got this because after this happened, he immediately took it to America to try and, like, make it famous. And there's even a quote from him in the New York Times, where he says, when the time comes, I will prove to the world that this black magic of the Middle Ages consisted in discoveries far in advance of 20th century science. So, what are you saying? The book has alien secrets?

Something. I don't mean, I'm not going to throw the word alien in there. That's a, that's a math. Sorry, that's, that's a math. Yeah, that's a math injection. Yeah. Future, future, like, not like, yes, like, crazy magic future tech. Gotcha. But Voynich was never able to crack the code in his lifetime, and he died of lung cancer in New York in 1930. That's what he gets for being a liar. Only 18 years after he bought it. But that does not mean people did not try. And in fact, some of the most famous and skilled code breakers who ever lived have tried their hand at solving this thing, which is really probably what's made this story so evergreen is that somebody always

says they're solving it. But let's take a look at a couple of the best tries, which are also, if you buy the version of this that's available from Yale, you also get this article called cryptographic attempts by William Sherman. And the first high profile attempt was made by a University of Pennsylvania professor called William Romain Newbold, who went with a theory involving a cipher that he found in Roger Bacon's work, the alchemist, which he believed was also used in portions of the manuscript, as well as a separate system involving transposition of letters, ancient Greek abbreviation techniques, and the microscopic analysis of individual pen strokes within single characters, which could serve as shorthand references to letters in an actual language.

Wow. Does that make sense? That's a lot of brick. I have a vague idea of what I think he's saying. Yes. And you look at the strokes of the symbol to get the word out of it, basically. Gotcha. And at first, this theory seemed really solid. It was even endorsed by one of the main cryptologists in the U.S. Army in World War I, a well-credentialed medievalist guy who was called John Matthews Manley. But after a while, Manley decided that Newbold's, quote, decipherments were not discoveries of secrets hidden by Roger Bacon, but the products of his own intense enthusiasm and his learned and ingenious subconscious. So he was being polite to making

shit up. It's like you get too close to it and then you don't know what's real and what's fake anymore. You know, that's what he was trying to say. He was like, the dude's smart. He psyched himself out on this one. But the next big attempt was also by another army cryptographer, a guy named William F. Friedman and his wife, Elizabeth Friedman, who was also a cryptographer. And they studied the manuscript regularly for 45... Do you think they write each other cryptographic love notes? I'm almost positive that they probably actually did. That'd be the best. I could like... Then what about the illustrations? What about them? Yeah. I mean... I was just saying, two cryptographic people day in and married each other should send each other

crypto love letters for Valentine's Day. Yeah. But then... Well, so the idea is... I guess I'm trying to... I guess I'm trying to relate it to how that would relate to, say, like the previous manuscript, right? Yeah. Yeah. So some of the later theories, like the key to what they are, what the theory is, sometimes relate to the actual art in there, which some people think are clues. But for the first big part of the manuscript's existence, everybody was just really focused on cracking the code, because it was really hard to print the pictures and distribute them in a way that everybody could have them, like page by page. But the code, you know, you could just write,

basically. Right. And I know that's not necessarily the greatest way of doing it, but this is what people were doing. And these people... These army people, though, they really had the best available to them. And they actually... They started... They went for 40 years starting in 1925. And they actually even started, in 1944, the Voynich manuscript study group, which was like them and their colleagues working on this for like 20 years, right? And this dude, Friedman, is not like just some dude, right? People have called this guy the world's greatest cryptologist. He was... In World War II, he helped crack Japan's code purple. He was even made the chiefed crypt analyst for the War Department. He was the head of the Signals Intelligence Service

in the 40s and 50s. But they couldn't... They couldn't crack it. And the Friedmans never even, like, gave anybody really any official closure for people. They just like, one time... Like, how do I describe this? They never actually were like, we didn't solve it. But one time, in 1959, they put out an article called Acrostics Anagrams and Chaucer from Philogical Quarterly. And they wrote this long piece on the pointlessness of looking for anagramic ciphers. But the bit was that that was actually... The piece that they wrote was, in fact, itself an anagramic cipher. And the solution to that cipher, the cipher text, was the Voynich manuscript was an early attempt to construct an artificial or universal language of the priory type, Friedman. So it was signed by

Friedman. And that's what he thinks. He thinks it's a hoax piece, like a language that doesn't exist, that we don't know the rules to. That maybe was an experiment or an exercise of this person. Like, the person who made the language had a logic to the language, but it's not... Only he knew. It's not enciphered other language. He thinks it's another type of language. But this hasn't stopped people from looking and trying and formulating theories in the years since. So let's step away from the New Yorker to two more recent times in the past few years. One from 2017 and then one from just this summer when the manuscript was claimed to be solved. Okay. So the first one comes from an article in The Atlantic from 2017 by Sarah Zhang,

which discusses a cover story article published that same week in the Times literary supplement by a man called Nicholas Gibbs, who suggests that while doing research for an unnamed television network, I don't know what network it was, he discovers that not only is the manuscript not so much enciphered as it is abbreviated, but also that once you decode it, it's not much more than a woman's health manual copied from somewhere else with a bunch of well-known medicinal recipes and guides, right? So that'll explain the constant drawings of women all over it? This is one guy who says that he found another copy of this written somewhere else and he solved it, etc., etc. But the main problem... I'm assuming he's never shown it. We've never

seen this other copy. Sort of. So the main problem is that the article only includes two decoded lines from an over 200 page manuscript. Oh, God. And it's really too short of a piece for any sort of academic review. Like, it's not like a comprehensive, like, detailing of his findings. And also many Voynich experts were quick to point out that much of what is explained in the article is fairly incorrect or is him presenting old information as if it were a breakthrough. Over half of the article is either autobiographical about Gibbs or laying out theories previously discussed as theories on various websites and other analyses and simply saying that now they're not theories, they're true. And the other part, which is only two paragraphs long, explains the solution,

which is that the characters aren't letters, like I said, but abbreviated words and that according to other experts who have reviewed his methods, the two decoded lines that he decrypted result in nonsensical Latin that doesn't really follow any real rules of grammar and seemingly contains no proper names, but only references to indexes, which Gibbs says are part of the likely 18% of the manuscript, which is still missing. So he's like, Oh, yeah, that's a that's notation that's not available. Of course, of course. Yeah. So the deal with his thing, and this is from like 2016, is that people are willing to hear him out, but he needs to like put his money where his mouth is. Yeah, it's one of those people who says he's figured it out, but provides zero evidence.

Yeah. And it's been four years and there's just nothing. You know. Yeah. And so that's so that's the first one that was in 2016, 2017 vibes. But the other recent big solution thing that went around that I'm going to talk about occurred in June of this year, post COVID, when a German Egyptologist by the name of Rainer Hanig published some findings alleging that the text of the manuscript isn't encrypted, but rather written naturally, but using transposition into fake symbols. You know what I mean? Like imagine like you wrote it in English, and then you had a thing that was just like, this is just written in English, but it uses different symbols instead of English letters.

Gotcha. Wingdings. It's like, yeah, it's like the most basic form of Cypher ever. And so he says, the reason this works for him now, here's a quote from him. He says, countless decipherments, attempts were made, a lot of languages were proposed such as Latin, Czech, almost others, Nahua too, spoken by the Aztecs, just name a few, but the word structure is only one possible explanation. The manuscript was not composed in an Indo-European language, right? Okay. So he says that it's not Indo-European, it's Semitic. And he narrowed it down to Arabic, Aramaic, or Hebrew, because those are the only ones that were commonly spoken by scholars in the Middle Ages. And then he narrowed it down even

further to just Hebrew, after he found that he was able to use it to half translate first words, and then full sentences. So here's another quote from him. The actual translation of the Voynich book will need a couple years of work, even if specialists in Hebrew language who are all very well versed in medieval Hebrew and the terminology of botanical and medical texts take over the analysis. The character of the script, the pronunciation, which one needs to get used to, the peculiarity and the vocabulary of the period will cause a lot of trouble even to a native speaker. Okay. But even just a few months later, there were already very like damning rebuttals to his method, right? And this came out in June.

Here is one from late July by Moshe Rubin, who is an Israeli crypto expert who is knowledgeable in the field of medieval Jewish and liturgical and rabbinic texts. I first wanted to see if I could duplicate what Hanuk says he sees there, assessing the Hebrew Aramaic he claims to read, based on my knowledge of medieval Jewish, liturgical and rabbinic texts. Following that, I wanted to pick a Voynich text of my choosing and see if I could duplicate Hanuk's results. I worked as close to the metal as possible. In the end, I am entirely unconvinced with the method Hanuk uses or with his decipherments. Here are my thoughts. The conversion of Voynich symbols to Hebrew letters is inconsistent, right? He says things like, occasionally symbols are ignored

and not transcribed, or a Hebrew letter not in the Voynich is added to make it make sense, which is like not good. Yeah, you don't want to be in certain shit. Right. And he says some symbols are mapped to one of two very common Hebrew letters, like the same symbol represents M and N, which like he's just random. And he says like two forms of the S sound, maybe one symbol, but M and N is like very not after the fashion of proper Hebrew. He also says that a lot of the words that he extracted are incredibly archaic, rarely if ever found in medieval or Hebrew texts, like things that are archaic even for the time. And he believes that somebody who was writing in Hebrew in the medieval times would have a much,

this is just what I was saying earlier, would have a much better vocabulary and grammar than this guy wants you to believe that they do. He's saying that somebody who was right in the lining up like somebody who would write this in Hebrew would be better at writing Hebrew than this. So the overwhelming feelings that Hanuk having extracted Hebrew letters for a Voynich word than scoured Hebrew dictionaries for any word archaic and rare as it may be for anything that will match or semi-match. Right. And that's basically and he ends it by saying, I would like to believe that if the underlying language were Hebrew, I would immediately recognize and identify it as such. I'd know it when I see it. I want to make it perfectly clear.

I candidly respect Professor Hanuk's attempt to solve the Voynich and recognize the enormous effort that went into reaching its conclusions. It is my belief that as so many other people in so many walks of life, his subjectivity suppressed his objectivity on this topic. I do not believe he has solved the Voynich mystery. So same, same deal. Same idea. Somebody just got too close to it, made up their own version of the solution and just kept allowing for it until it worked. Right. Yep. Anybody can do that. Anybody can do that. That's not a hard thing to do. And that is the Voynich manuscript and the jury on that one is very much still out. That's a very evergreen mystery. But before we go today, I still have one more mystery for you guys to

close it all out. It's a little shorter, no worries. And hopefully it's not one you've ever heard of before. And it all starts on October 25th, 1593, with a soldier standing guard outside the Viceroy's Castle in Mexico City, Mexico. Or should I say New Spain? What was it called at that time? Mexico? New Spain in the 16th century? I don't know. Maybe that's a Jesse question. I don't know. I don't know. For this one, I want to give shout outs to an article from Esquire by Paulo Chua, which I won't say the name of the article because it's a spoiler, and a website called AnomalyInfo.com by Garth Haslam or Haslam. Haslam. But anyway, let's get back to the soldier. Okay. He's guarding the Viceroy's Castle. Correct. This guy, again, just a palace guard.

He was good at his job. He was doing it well by all accounts. And yet he's still stuck out like a sore thumb to everyone around him because of his uniform, which wasn't very appropriate for the Viceroy's Guard detail at all, but rather exactly what you would expect to see on a guard in the Spanish colony of Manila in the Philippines, which according to the soldier who was a man named Gil Perez was exactly where he was just a few minutes earlier, though that was over 9,000 miles away. Yeah. So according to Perez, he was a Spanish soldier and he was a member of the Guardia Civil under the Governor General Gomez Perez Dasmarinias during what was then the early years of Spain ruling in the Philippines. So early colonial Philippines, Spanish, Spain.

It's a great place to be. I don't know. It seemed like it was pretty chaotic. And just a few days earlier, however, according to Perez, Dasmarinias had been assassinated by Chinese pirates during an expedition in the Maluku Islands of Indonesia. And so there was no Governor General for like a day and nobody knew what the fuck to do. So he was just outside of the palace being a dude, chilling, guarding the palace just in case any shady shit went down in this like politically tumultuous time. And all of a sudden he started feeling dizzy and he started feeling exhausted. And when he leaned up against a wall to rest his eyes for a second, all he did was blink. And when he opened his eyes, he was in Mexico and he had no

idea how he got there. And he was just like people started asking people where the fuck he was. And people were like, what are you talking about, dude? And eventually he like got to the proper authorities, you know, he was out of it. But unlike those weird green children who love the beans, once he got in front of the viceroy, Luis de Velasco of New Spain, and also he got in front of the Spanish Inquisition, the bad, bad ones. He was able to... Yeah, the bad ones. As opposed to the good ones. I'm just saying, you know, you don't want to be in front of the Spanish Inquisition if you don't know what the fuck's up. You don't expect them. Yeah. And he was able to answer all their questions clearly.

He was also able to be very detailed and they got it all down, including very specific facts about the assassination of Desmarinias back in the Philippines. But that was not nearly enough to stop him from being sent away to Mexico, from Mexico to a Caribbean jail in Santo Domingo for desertion and being, quote, a servant of the devil. Don't you love it? Oh my God, what that? That sucks, dude. Imagine just being like, huh, I'm so dizzy. I'm just going to take a moment and just like, oh, I'm in Mexico now and then you die in prison. The end, that's your life's journey. But here's the thing. It wasn't really the end because Perez, through the whole thing, was just sort of like, you got it. You got it. I'll do it. And some even thought that maybe he just

didn't mind being in the jail because then at least he didn't have to go like shoot like jungle warriors in the Philippines that were like kicking his ass like, you know, 17th century Vietnam or some shit. Like, do you think he was somebody who just like abandoned his post and was like, fuck this shit? Apparently it was hellish. But like, how could you get all the way to Mexico? You know what I mean? I don't know. Yeah. It is it is weird that he went to Mexico. 9000 miles away, right? It's a bit of a journey. But you know, after a while, sure enough, devout Christianity, good behavior, he never got charged with anything. And one day, months later, a Spanish galleon arrived in Acapulco with news from the mainland.

The fricking governor general was assassinated. Everything that he said was true down to the letter to the point that they actually recalled him from the Caribbean back to Mexico. And the guy that came was like, oh my God, dude, you're the guy who disappeared. What the fuck are you doing here? How did you know he disappeared from the Philippines the same day that he appeared in Mexico? In Mexico? I want to say abducted by aliens just because that's the way. No, no, don't do that. Well, no, Jess, you can't be silent this whole story and then just show up to tell me I'm wrong. Look, it was interesting, but it doesn't make it a real story. But what if it is real? No, that look, okay, look, look, look. So he gets, he gets, he gets set back

to the to the Philippines as a free man, like just back reinstated as his job. And that's the end of the story, right? But the kicker for the story is that most of the versions we have online can be traced back to a book from 1955 by Morris K. Jessup, who I think we might have talked about before on the show. I just recognize the name Morris K. Jessup for some reason. Awesome. He has a book called Jessup in the Time. I don't know. His book is called The Case for the UFO. Morris K. Jessup in the Time. I hate you. I'm glad. All right. I got it. I'm feeling good. It took a second to land. I was like, what the fuck was he talking? Oh, god. All right. I'm glad. Which, you know, is damning, you know, to be traced back to a UFO book from the 50s when it's

a, which is it was the UFO book too, even better. But upon further research, there is one mention of his story in Harper's from 1908. And a man called Thomas A. Jean Vieille lays out the story as something that he got from a verbal storyteller in Mexico City as something that probably wasn't true. He said in that story, and he seemingly invents certain parts of the story, whole cloth, like the name Gil Perez, which almost shuts the story down right there, except that there is mention of the story all the way back in 1698 in the third volume of his Conquest of the Philippine Islands book. This guy writes about the death of General Dazmarine Dazmarine. Yes. And he writes, it is worthy of consideration that the same day that the tragedy of Gomez Perez happened,

the fact was learned in Mexico City by the art of Satan from whom some women inclined to such agility have taken advantage transplanted to the Plaza de Mexico, a soldier who was making a post one night in a garrison of the wall of Manila. And it was executed so without the soldier feeling that in the morning they found him marching guard during the Plaza de Mexico, asking the name of passerby. So there is record. And that, my friends, but that's not aliens. No, I mean, who knows what it was, but craft. How did it happen? It didn't. First off, man, you're pissing off that one viewer every time. Jesse always says, good, good. Listen, think critically, one viewer. What if aliens accidentally dropped him off in the wrong country?

They were like, if you listen, got to, got to, got to, got it. Oh, we dropped the Mexico City to the bad rock colony. You know, I hear you're now all these planets look the same. No, exactly. If you just, but if you listen to everything Alex was saying, every time the story was told, it was always like there was a, these Satan girls, or there's always something different. Right. It's never the same way that that happened. I mean, each version was a different story. It's true. Like if you peel back the layers, yes, like maybe Gil Perez wasn't the guy. Maybe maybe Gil Perez is a great name, by the way. But the thing is, but the thing is, it's in the chapter about the death of General Desmarinius. It talks about this guy predicted

that and they didn't get word of it in that place for 13 months. So he said it. He said it. He came from yesterday when it happened. They recorded it, sent him away. 13 months later, a boat shows up and says, oh, that happened and my guy disappeared. They call for him and the guy's like, that's my guy. How does that happen? Maybe that didn't happen. I don't know. But there's enough of the story laid out in the version from 1698 that it feels like maybe there was something that happened. Maybe it has my it has hooked my imagination. I'll say that much. Yeah. The thousand different ways you could take that and have like a fun storytelling exercise as to how he got there. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, if there were internet mysteries from before the

year 1500, these would be them. You know, these would be them. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. And if you that is such a cool story, if you if you want more craziness like this, I'm going to give you the little teaser that in today's bonus episode, I'm going to explain a little bit more about the other enciphered book that John D. had. The so we're going to be more on a mini so that's right over on Patriot and the curse that's attached to that book. And you can listen to it right now, patreon.com slash Luminati pod, the greatest URL ever written created. Good night. Good night. That's a good shot. It's a proper shot. Well, thanks so much, Alex. That was a that was a great like trio of just really fun mysteries.

It always gets bigger than I wanted to. Like the green kids thing ended just a little shy of where I wanted. And then I was like, OK, the Voynich. But then we just did two. That's not enough for one episode. So then I had to throw a third one in there. But I gotta give us a number. I feel it. I feel it. It's a mystical number. We're going to we're going to record that mini so next week we will return. I will begin the beginning of the long journey that will be MK Ultra. Be ready. It is a lot of human torture and a lot of fun, but it's also just a fascinating time. You guys are all screwed up in the head. You want to see this shit like I want to see it. Yeah, I mean, you can come through here. Killers with us before you're ready. You got here. You

clicked on the picture. You clicked on the Illuminati pyramid. You're ready for some some forbidden knowledge. Some forbidden knowledge, indeed. If you want to reach out to us or drop us some stories, please go ahead and do so over at the subreddit. It's by the name of our slash Chaluminati pod. Same thing for Twitter at Chaluminati pod there and all our personal socials. I met Mathis Games. Alex is at Fossiana and Jesse is at Jesse Cox. We appreciate and love the support over a patron so so much. It helps out such a great deal and we will see you all next week. Bye. Peace. you

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