Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 8 - Tommy Pitera Part 2 - Sexy Oscar Isaac

Episode Date: June 24, 2018

When Mickey gets super scary.

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Yup, juice! Toyota, let's go places! Well, back into the world of Tommy Karate-Paterra. Hello everybody and welcome to Chilluma Naughty, episode 8, Tommy Paterra, part 2, Dash, Karate Murderer. It's been a little while since we- Tommy's Karate part 2, the 8 schools of Kung Fu- I don't even know, I don't even know, it doesn't talk about the type of Karate he

practiced, maybe it's just Karate, but in the book. I mean, I'm curious if there was a particular school of martial arts, our dear Tommy Paterra. I think Karate is a thing, like it might be. Yeah, I think it's a thing. I don't know if it's a thing. I don't know shit about the martial arts. If you look at me, right now I'm wearing an Esports Pokemon jersey. That is opposite of martial arts.

That's true. I took martial arts up until the age of 13, so it's been over 20 years since I've done that. There are many, many types of Karate. I took Taekwondo, specifically. Yeah, there are four early styles and several late styles for those who are masters. Is that- how do you know this? Are you a secret master, Jesse?

Oh, I'm a master of Google.com. Oh, okay. That's my Karate. Is your dad Tommy Karate? All right. I'm not- I don't know Karate, but I do know Koehraisei. I know Gaugale. Oh, my God.

All right, well, let's dive back into the world of 1970s, 1980s, New York, Gravesend, specifically, with our good boy, Tommy Karate Paterra. Gravesend. You missed part one? I'm still mad- I'm still mad about Gravesend. Gravesend. Even worse. I understand.

Even worse. Oh, man. That's where he came from. Gravesend. Get out of here, Tommy. It's poetic in a lot of ways. See yourself out. Funny how that happens.

A synchronicity of the world. But if you missed the first episode, go listen to the first one. We talk about Tommy Karate's childhood all the way up until the point where he went to Japan to study under a martial arts master for a little over two years, returned and worked his way into the mafia very soon after, and became a made man, which is a proper member of one of the crime families of the mafia, specifically for our dear boy Tommy. It was the Bonanno crime family in case you forgot. And that's where we left off.

This episode, we're going to be talking about his subsequent work within mafia, his rise to power in the mafia ranks, and a couple of interesting characters that are going to be necessary to talk about in the third and final part in a couple of weeks when we talk about his subsequent downfall, capture, and arrest. And as most people go down, it's usually not the work of just Tommy F and up. It's more of the work of those he kept close by and ended up doing, maybe confiding a little bit too much information in people he thought were trustworthy. But that's going to, we'll introduce those characters today.

We met them a little bit. We're going to get a couple more. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Two of the most important figures, I would say, is going to be introduced in this episode.

I hope the two of you are really ready for this because I'm looking at this outline like, I'm not ready for this. There's nothing I've prepared like, first of all, we need to say that this is now part two of three, right? Yes. It's going to be a three-parter. And just looking at part two, we, like this man got busy. I had, I left out quite a lot because it's just not something I can't just give every

beat of his life. I picked the important parts. If you guys want to check out with Tommy Karate and all that stuff, again, The Butcher by Philip Carlo is a great book for that. It just goes over his life in great detail. It's fantastic. So where'd you get it? I got this at a Barnes and Noble, I think.

Whoa. Old school. Yeah. Yeah. I was at a bookstore and I saw it and I was like, this looks awesome. And then I did a little research and I was like, I'm buying this book and I'm going to read it. And I think we're going to do a Chiluminati podcast episode on it.

Have you guys ever been to an Amazon bookstore? No. There is one in Boston, but I don't have an. There's brick and mortar. Why would you go? Why would that? Well, I was, I was just at the movies and I was waiting for it to start and I was like, is that an Amazon bookstore?

And you know what they sell in there? I kid you not, a bunch of like very like sterile looking book stacks and then like mostly kindles. Of course. Very weird. Yeah. That makes sense. Anyway, anyway, I digress. So New York 1980s Tommy has worked himself into the mafia and did jobs for the mafia.

I'm imagining he was played by Oscar Isaacs. No. Yeah. I can with, you know, seeing Tommy karate, I can see Oscar Isaacs, you know, gaining a little bit of weight for the role and maybe beefing himself up a little more than he is and hiring his register a little bit in his voice. I'm going to say I was exactly. I'm a star guy.

He'd make a good, he'd make a good Tommy Patera. But Tommy to himself back in the mafia, finally in the mafia, finally a made man and starting right out the gate when he joined the mafia, working as an assassin. That was his calling almost immediately. And it wouldn't actually be long with Tommy in the mafia before he himself became known as a really top assassin among the crime families where he lived. Keep in mind in the area he lived, there were five different crime families. He just worked specifically with the Bonanno crime family.

The legends run into each other. They work together. Oh my God. Is that Tommy karate? The guy from the Bananos? And there's actually. Joey. Joey Ninjutsu and stuff?

The other guys? Yeah. So actually the way it works and, you know, at least back then is if a family wanted somebody hit and killed, but they wanted somebody from another family to do it, they would go to the boss of the other family and ask permission to use one of their assassins and they'd have to get their blessing before they would be able to contract, say Tommy, to go work for another family to take out somebody. So it's exactly like the hierarchy of the vampires and blade is what you're saying.

I guess so. Yeah. I'll take it. Yeah. But they work together. Like I said in the first episode, they had a council of where the five heads of families would come together every so often to go over deals and like lines and territory and jobs and et cetera, et cetera.

So yeah, no, they work together quite often. So the legends and rumors of Tommy actually were as soon as he started working were nearly instantaneous across the Bonanno crime family, across the Bonanno crime family badly enough to warrant your execution. And Tommy was the guy that they would call to take care of you. But it wasn't that he was so willing to kill that set Tommy apart. Most in the mafia were more than okay with killing. It's part of the business.

It's how the mafia works, cross any of their major rules and almost always the punishment was death. What kind of set Tommy apart was how quickly, precisely and cleanly Tommy did it. People didn't just die when Tommy went after them. They just disappeared. And Tommy was creative with his work. Big boss rating, big boss S rank. Yeah.

He's just S ranking this entire thing. That's exactly it. This is crazy. No alerts. As an example as to how much he loved his job and how much he really paid attention to it, Tommy clearly had a good time with his job and he would go to extreme lengths to ensure that those he was sent to silence permanently never saw him coming. One of his favorite tactics was the simple act of costumes.

Get the fuck out of here. Get out. He's like a fucking process server that like kills you. He had two costumes of note that people refer to him as. Come on. The first being that of an orthodox rabbi. This is hit man 47. Now this is not real.

This is not real life. It really is. It is hit man. Yeah. You're right. You can hide amongst the crowded streets following basically who he needed to kill, however long it took him and they would never be any the wiser. They were just trust that the orthodox rabbi wasn't going to murder him.

That would never, he would never take me out, not just rabbi. But if a rabbi disguise wasn't really what was required for this particular person, perhaps he was a man that enjoyed partying at night and you know, he only came out to drink and do drugs at night. His other costume was one that went along with his high pitched voice rather well. Of a woman. What the fuck? I saw a picture of him.

There's no way. There's nothing about him. He looks like a murder, he looks like a human murderer. He just looks like a man who takes people out. He's a huge man. His grizzled like beard, like he doesn't have a beard but he has that like. He looks like the goon. Five hours ago permanently face.

He looks like the goon. But hey man, maybe you mix his high pitched voice with dim lights, a lot of drinks and some drugs and they're not seeing clearly what they have before you. And he would basically coerce them into a night of boning more or less. Listen if it was Oscar Isaacs, I would do it even though I would be able to tell. And excuse me, are you Oscar Isaacs? I am, but come to my room. Sure, whatever.

Call me whatever you want, come on. I was supposed to be a rabbi here. Don't worry about him. They walk into the room and the rabbi costumes just like heaped in a corner on a chair. What did you do to the rabbi? I'm getting my characters mixed up. Don't worry about it. I don't know who that was supposed to be.

Yeah, I was like did Tommy bring back a girl? I don't know which, maybe he was killing a girl. We found out, even if he did, if he did, he just did it as respectfully as possible. Of course. Right, he wasn't a creep about it. No. Okay. So basically what he would do is get them away as far away as he could where he had things

prepped and then he would just put a bullet in their head, chop them up and bury them far, far away. But he had other costumes as well, but those are the two that were reported on when confessions are coming out and the like. So those were his two go-to, I guess, in his career to work. Because those who saw Murderous Rabbi never had a chance to tell anybody. It's so cold to do the rabbi. Yeah.

Very much him not caring. That's like dressing like a therapist and like killing somebody. Right. Yeah, no. It's, you know, when you walk around as a rabbi, there's a inherent or any maybe religious leader. There's a lot of trust that gets instantaneously put upon you. I should try it.

Yeah, you should. Just to see. Just to see. Not to kill anyone. Well, yeah, I would hope not. No, no. But yeah, it is kind of monstrous, right? You dress up as a religious leader and you can kind of just disappear in, you know, with

the crowd. People don't pay you any mind. They immediately will trust you for being who you are. And you know, especially in the mafia, I'm assuming, you know, they're always worried about being followed, but you see a religious leader. You know, I'm safe. He's not following me. Oh, that's just a rabbi.

Right. Just a rabbi for the local temple. You know, costumes are so, are so funny in movies. In real life, they get so fucked up so fast. Yeah. Like just thinking about it. Yeah. But that was his thing.

And just the fact that he took time to take these costumes, it's clear that there was just an element, a little, a flair to his job, the way he took his job, how much he enjoyed doing what he did. His reputation had built so quickly that when walking into a room filled with other crime members, people would point and talk and hush tones about him and what he was capable of and others stood straight and treated him with nothing but respect. In a way, Tommy had achieved exactly what he wanted in life, power and respect. But there were still those who sat above him, assassins of the mafia that would get the

better jobs because they were around longer, had more trust still from the higher ups. But Tommy was happy and, more importantly, had become quite wealthy. While the crime families in the area had an agreement that they would not deal drugs on the books, at least. Oh, they all dealt drugs. Every single family had their hands in some, quote, off the records, unquote, drug sales. While against the rules to sell drugs under the, say, Bonanno crime family name, if you sold them on your own as a personal kind of side business, not affiliated with the crime

families, you'd be overlooked by those. Who is the judge of that? First of all, just real quick. Who is the judge of that? I'm sorry. The heads of the crime families. The five heads of the crime families. I feel like it's one of those things where, you know, like in good fellows or whatever,

no one really cares until you get your ass caught with stuff and they're like, we can't have you doing that. And they take you out. So just do whatever the fuck you want, but just be a gentleman. Basically. Well, it's, I mean, it's the rules of all the mob stuff, which is like, we're on your side and we're good friends until you get caught or you goof in some way. And then we got to get rid of you.

If I was in the mob, I would never fuck around with like some side shit. I, you know, I don't understand why these people are attempting fate, especially when there's a man who will kill you dressed as a rabbi. And that's just a fact. Well, I mean crime, man. It doesn't say. And here's the thing. Tommy did exactly that.

He, he sold a ton of drugs on the side with the money he made from being an assassin as well as how much money he made selling mostly cocaine and dry cleaners. Well with the money he made, he actually did. So he sold mostly cocaine, marijuana and heroin. He did not open a dry cleaner shop opened an animation studio and a theme park. Based on the mouse that he created while he, while he didn't necessarily open a dry cleaner, he did open two bars. Nice classy.

Everybody quietly makes you disappear. Do we know the names of these bars? Yes, we do. The first bar was visit these bars. I don't think they exist anymore. But the first bar was Cypress bar and grill in Cypress gardens imaginative. And the second one was the Just Us bar on Avenue S in West, uh, West 8th Street. I like to think that that was a lawyer, I hope, I like to think that's a lawyer hanging

out. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Who's here? Just us. I like that. And then justice.

Justice bar. Yeah. The pun. The pun from. Actually I wonder. You guys. No, I get that. I'm there.

I see lawyers. I'm here. I'm with you. Yeah. The joke was there. Yes. And I got a key. I'm right down notes right now.

Yeah. Yes. And yes. And the bit. Though the bars, though bars in name and they did actually make him a good amount of money just from people coming in and out buying drinks, they were much more than that, obviously, a place where Tommy and associates could meet up, talk deals, business agreements for drugs and so on.

Now it's important to know there were no actual drugs sold in these bars. I mean, yeah, clearly. Shit where you eat. Come on. Exactly. Exactly. And he kept it that way. The bar was treated as a bar and it was just, this is where his deals went down and they

would arrange other places to do meetups and drug exchanges for money and the like. The bars for the most part outside of the deals were kept clean, quote unquote. During this time where he was buying bars and being successful, Tommy actually got married even. He got married to a woman named Carol and they had a child that they named Charles. However, it wouldn't be long before Carol and Tommy ended up seven. Charlie Karate. Chuckie Karate.

Chuck Norris is his name. Oh my God. Oh, Chuck Norris is Tommy Pateris' kid. I don't think so. I feel like that's not true. He changed his last name. Yeah. Wilford Brimley was like, come on.

Walker. Come on. Walker. Texas Ranger. Yeah. So he had a kid. He got married to Carol, had a kid, but marriage didn't last long. They ended up separating.

But even separated, Tommy did absolutely everything he possibly could to make sure his ex and their child lived a good life. So Japanese. I mean, yeah, kind of. While he wasn't present in their lives very often after that, he paid all of their rent, bought them food, clothing, and generally made sure they lived very comfortable lives. He just kind of watched over them from a distance, but kept his distance. That's such a movie criminal thing to do.

Now it makes sense, though. As I was reading through this and reading the life of Halva Mafia and people live during this time, I'm like, oh, the movies kind of were pulling from fact, I guess. Yeah. I did their research. I guess that's true. The Godfather is real, I guess. Yeah, it's crazy.

But Tommy had also, in that time, moved on romantically as well. And he was now dating someone else, someone that would become instrumental to Tommy's eventual downfall. And her Nest name, rather, not her Nest. Her name was Celeste. I get why you said that now. Yeah, exactly. Celeste LaParis.

Okay. LaParis. Celeste LaParis. If you want to, you know, be me about it. Celeste LaParis. What? LaParis? Nothing.

Nothing. Nothing. The name alone tells me this is bad news for Tommy. GTA, MPC. Yeah, this is the, yeah, if you were cousin Miko and you found Celeste LaParis, she definitely won. Lots of Coke. Two.

Is going to kill you. Oh yeah, swears like a sailor. Three. Rats you out to the FBI. There's only three things a Celeste LaParis does. I'm going to imagine. I know that. I'm going to imagine like Peggy Bundy.

That's like where I'm going to go into my brain. Well, oh my God, that's exactly what I think too. Celeste was apparently a very gorgeous woman. She had full lips, small waist. This is all detailed, by the way, in the book. Full lips, small waist, and a big behind, I need a dot. She had a small waist, large breasts, and a perfect hourglass figure. She was very much your 80s girl living in the high crime life.

She had like crazy 80s hair. Yep, she absolutely did. And since this was the early 80s, at this point, the 80s hair to go along all with that 80s fashion. So she is literally Peggy Bundy. She's literally Jessica Chastain from that movie with Oscar Isaacs that I'm thinking of. Yeah. However. Stop it.

I'm most violent here. Oscar Isaacs so bad. I just want to have sex with Oscar Isaacs. That's what we're getting out of this. That's what this episode is. I'm going to title this episode. I heard he loves conspiracy shows. Yeah.

I wanted to wait eight episodes before I opened the Pandora's box. Come get me, baby. Are we talking, are you like a top, a bottom, a switch? I'm not choosy. You know what? Yeah, switch. It's 2018. I'm a gamer.

I'm a switch. Fair enough. For Oscar Isaacs, I'm with you. I understand. What the hell is happening right now? All right. Celeste, while she was utterly gorgeous and I've seen pictures and she was very good looking woman, there was a little bit of a counterpart to that.

Get the fuck out of here. Oh my God. When she spoke, she spoke with an incredibly rough, very heavy Brooklyn accent and she spoke according to the book. She's Peggy Bundy. She spoke out the side of her mouth with a voice that sounded rough as though it was kind of a truck driver. She's Dr. Girlfriend from the Venture Brothers.

Oh my God. Hello, baby. Hello, honey. Oh, sweetheart. Yeah. Let's go murder these people together. Oh my God. You sexy little Mickey Mouse.

That's right. Keep mine. Hi, baby. I love those high-waisted pants. Look at those two giant buttons. Oh, thank you. Yes, oh, thank you. I bet you could beat somebody to death with those giant hands.

Oh, yeah. I certainly do. I'll beat you to death later with my wiener. My wiener. All right. All right. Good. Good.

I'm glad we're getting that out of the way now. And scene. At the end of every good improv scene, that's the end of it. They all stand together at the front of the stage and they say, and scene. I even wrote in the notes, man. That's the polar opposite of Tommy's high-pitched voice poetically. That's fucking beautiful. And the thing with Tommy though, he utterly worshipped Celeste.

She was, in almost every single way, his ideal woman. Perfect. His goddess. He adored her. Except one thing. Her voice. The one thing with Tommy. I told you.

I know. I told you. But I tell you. That's the one thing Tommy hated the most about anyone that he dealt with. Celeste was an incredibly heavy drug user. Saw that coming a mile away. Damn. As we actually talked about in the last episode, while he dealt drugs, Tommy nearly completely

have abstained from them. He saw it as a way to lose everything. Mafia members around him lost everything and ended up dead because of drugs all too often. So he himself refused. Oh, Tommy. Oh, I know exactly where this is going. She wasn't into him. She was into the drugs.

Tommy was selling. Tommy had a good woman and his first wife. He and Carol, they had a beautiful child and he left her for this harlot who just wanted his drugs and then she rats him out. I didn't think that the thing that was going to get Jesse fired up the most was like soap, opera, level drama. But then again, what the fuck was I thinking? I mean, true.

No, of course, of course, this is his downfall. You know, his downfall is going to be like, and then he was caught murdering people. No, it's like the one he put his love into betrayed him. Oh, man. I knew it. You're on the right track. You're on the right track. I know what's going to happen.

I still think to tell you, Jesse, I'll say this. There are still some twists and turns in store for you. I'm ready. This is this is a great story so far. Tommy himself refused to lose everything. He had worked so hard for it to something he considered so trivial. Drugs specifically. You control the drugs.

The drugs do not control you was his motto. Again, something we talked about last episode. But Celeste was a big drug user, a nightly one, and her drugs of choice were cocaine. Cocaine, yep. And bring the night down with heroin. Jesus Christ. She's just like ups and downs. Yes.

She would she would basically her nightly routine was to get really high on cocaine. And when she found when she was done partying, hit heroin to bring herself down. And because of this, they fought constantly. He would threaten to leave her. She swore up and down that she would quit, but neither one of those things happens. She's not into you. Oh, see, don't you guys get it? Tommy was like, she's my perfect woman.

And so he put her up on a pedestal, but she just did it for the drugs, man. That's what she's like. I don't want to. Don't let me. Don't leave me. I love you. I know his candy. And Tommy didn't know he was too busy murdering and trying to get laid.

This is Mickey Rourke. Mickey Rourke in Sin City right here. Pretty much. Yeah, after himself up. Oh, Tommy, you big dummy. He's a big dummy. Moreover, at least immediately it affected him with it and his position within the banana crime family.

Celeste was infamous as a party girl amongst the mafia members out nightly snorting Coke and shooting up heroin to come down after. And while Tommy was highly respected, Celeste brought that respect down considerably. But he loved her and Celeste wouldn't stop abusing that privilege. So Tommy in his own mind. Oh, no, he blamed to be the source of her problem. Oh, no, Tommy, if he couldn't bring himself to blame Celeste for her own problems, Tommy was going to find someone he could blame and try and stop it there.

So Tommy found Phyllis Birdie. Phyllis was Celeste's party partner almost every single night. And if you found Celeste doing drugs and partying, you were likely to also find Phyllis there doing the same thing. But if you considered Celeste a heavy user, then Phyllis was a crazed addict. And Phyllis Tommy decided was Celeste's problem. So he approached her and genuinely and politely told Phyllis the following. And we quote, which one of you boys would like to take this under Mickey Mouse's wing and

Jesse was just Jesse was just telling me before this how much you want to do this. Yeah, all right. Oh boy. Oh, Phyllis, I have a problem and I need your help. Celeste is out of control. I don't want her using drugs, but I listen to me. Listen to me, bitch. I'm not blaming you for anything.

I'm not saying you did anything. What I'm saying is that she can't control herself. And I'd really appreciate it if you made sure not to give her any drugs ever. She has a couple of toots. She starts drinking. Next she's using heroin. I'd really appreciate this. Where do we get this tweet?

Where do we get this like exact note from? Like where did it come from? Confessions during the trial. Oh my God. It's pretty much where all these quotes come from. Yeah. I'm sure like, you know, word for word, it's probably not remembered perfectly by who put it forth.

But you know, that's just what they put forth as his quote. And somehow the Mickey Mouse voice makes it weirdly scarier. It really, it really gets, you're subverting the image of a childhood constant for me. What? No, I definitely don't kill people, but I will cut your damn dick off. Listen, I'm just. I'm just, I'm not myself this year. Okay.

This is not the problem that I want to deal with. It's Brian Johnson's fault for this. He ruined my Luke Skywalker. We took a hard turn into Disney properties. Didn't mean to get political in the podcast. I'm sorry guys. Yes. Sorry guys.

Sorry. Well, after saying that, Phyllis responded by saying she never gave her a Celeste any drugs ever. She just used them with her and she would be absolutely sure. Oh, Phyllis is such a liar to them anymore. Oh Phyllis. Oh, I know everyone knows a Phyllis. Here's the thing.

I would do everything that I could fucking do not to get killed by Tommy Karate, though. Well, that's what all these people, I feel like one, if you're in it and not looking in from the outside, you don't see all the crazy stuff. All these people are involved in. Yeah. This is their world and this to them is like normalcy. But to us, we're like, this is nuts. No, I would be like, Tommy, do you need a sandwich?

Can I make you a sandwich? Can I make it the exact way you want it because I don't want to screw the sandwich up? Like that kind of stuff? Yeah. Oh yeah. I'd be like, okay, sure. Whatever you say, Tommy. Yeah.

And it's something important to note about both Celeste and Phyllis. Something I don't really talk about in here is they were both born and raised in mafia dump. Like their families and cousins were all involved in the mafia in some way. So this is like their world. Their dream, as it's pointed out during my research, is that their dream is to marry a successful, made man. And that's what they want.

They want to be married to their rich criminals because that is the ideal for them. They understand two dangers come along with it, but the ends justify the means to them as long as they get to marry somebody rich and powerful in their area. So this is their everyday, man. So what happened? So after a handshake, Tommy warned her that it could become very dangerous for her if it continued and then left. I would have driven out of town.

I would have drove to New Jersey and lived there. I guess they were in New Jersey. I would have driven to New York south and just got the fuck out. I would have gone to Yonkers and hidden out and never come back. Hung out with Michael Crawford and Barbara Streisand in Yonkers, New York. Yep. And for the next few years, things continued as they were. They would continue to fight.

Tommy would continually warn Celeste and Phyllis. Phyllis and Celeste would listen for like a night or two and then they'd be back partying again over and over. And Tommy, again, the thing that I even talked about in the first episode, Tommy, if he had a weakness or an ounce, not even a weakness, an ounce of humanity in him, it came from women. He respected women. So while if it was a man doing this, likely he would have been killed on night one because

it was Phyllis and Celeste and he had an honor code in his own mind, he, for the next few years, warned Phyllis over and over and over again and it never seemed to stop. But Tommy also did what he did best for the next few years. He killed when asked, sold drugs, made money, and garnered respect from those he worked alongside. But most importantly, Tommy continued to hone his killing. He still practiced martial arts, mind you, but the art of killing another person was now his passion. He had a rhythm to it, a process that had prevented him from not only getting caught,

but had kept him out of the prying eyes of the DEA for so long. The DEA, they knew he was killing. That wasn't the issue. The question is, who was he killing and what was he doing with the bodies that they couldn't figure out. Tommy was under heavy scrutiny by the early to mid 80s. They had both of his bars staked out and constantly bugged his cars. But Tommy was, if anything, paranoid of being caught.

He never used phones. His bar was a place of discussion and business only. When he was outside, he'd speak in incredibly low tones and keep his hands around his mouth to not be lip-red. In his car, if they ever spoke business, he would blast music or white noise and drown out anything that would have been picked up by the bugs in the cars. He was and had become known as a ghost, both to the FBI and the DEA and to the mafia members that he worked with.

So you're telling me that Harvey Keitel in pulp fiction is real? Yes. Just get rid of everything, hide it, and it just works. Yep. That's exactly how we did it. Can you imagine being a law officer and knowing someone is a murderer and just being like, oh well, can't get him? So on the sides, kind of the side story that's going obviously is Jim Hunt and his team working

on it. They, you know, I'm not going into too much detail about them because that's like a whole another story. But basically all the while they're working the fringes. They know there's massive stuff going on and Tommy is kind of the centerpiece. So they're slowly hitting and finding people on the edges who buy drugs from his dealers and trying to work their way into the chain through there by posing as other dealers and making deals and buying drugs.

Just trying to get him for something. Yeah. So they're getting a, they have a lot of fringe people at the moment that they have now been working with for maybe a couple of years and they're starting to get more and more information on Tommy through these other people. But even that, the information they're getting from them is not really anything too substantial. Tommy, as far as being a murderer was impeccable. He was so good at what he did.

Tommy had a burial ground for his deceased, a personal burial ground. I think we talked about a little bit in the first episode, but to get into more detail, the burial ground was a bird sanctuary on Staten Island. So far out of the way and so far out of the city that no one would see them going there. It was a government protected land meant not a single soul would ever wander through there. It was massive. So finding anything, even if they wanted to, would be a challenge without direction or knowing where the bodies were buried.

His method was clean and simple. Usually a bolt to the head to kill the victim, then it would bring the victim to a bathtub and run the water at a temperature that would mix with the blood and help it drain. From there, he would bring out his autopsy kit filled with saws and knives made to cut through human remains and he would dismember the body into six pieces. Two legs, two arms, torso, and the head. The body would then be bled, put into plastic bags, and those plastic bags would then be put into cheap travel bags and driven up to the bird sanctuary where he would then bury

those suitcases very deep and then cover them well enough that upon looking around, everything would seem normal. And in 1987, this method would earn him the respect of the head of the Bonanno family. And in Mafiadum, that alone can be priceless. So if they're watching his ass everywhere that he's going, right, like he's going through every possible, like, step that you could take to not get caught, and they, because he knows that they're like following his ass constantly. Yes.

He's actually, it's even noted in the book that sometimes when they were staking him out, he would look in the direction of their, of their stakeout and like almost in a taunting fashion, like, knowing that they're there. He would just like stare at them? Yeah. So how the fuck did he ever get out to this fucking sanctuary? It's my thing. It's like, that's what I'm saying.

Like, it's like, I don't understand. I don't understand. Like, it, yeah, you have to. So working in the Mafia, his cars would change constantly. He was never driving the same car for more than a couple of days. And they had a personal place that the FBI and the DEA didn't even know about until way late in the investigation that after a job, the cars would be brought there. The interior stripped, the license plate changed, the whole car detailed, and then given back

out to the crime family, family's members. When they drive around, they would drive around and take random stops and random streets and they would take hours to get where they were going and make sure that they would not be followed the entire time. So they were never driving the same cars. They were never driving with the same people. They never got picked up outside their bar, usually. Usually they'd walk away from the bar and get picked up separately.

So they went out of their way to ensure that they were not being followed. And this is also in the 80s, too. So tech is not exactly high. It's not as, yeah. It's not like cell phone shit. Right. I guess maybe a little bit, but not a lot in the 80s. Right.

Exactly. Yep. So like I said, he would go out of his way to make this happen. And he did a really, really good job for how paranoid. Damn right. He was. I heard you say, Jesse, early when I was talking about it, you were like, hmm, is that was the question that you had?

Yeah, yeah. There was, it just seemed like a lot of this was for someone being watched, he could do a lot. Yep. And another thing to keep in mind, too, as we talked about in episode one, a lot of the cops in the area, just the local beat cops were paid off constantly. The crime family kind of ran the city. It's more like a very stressed out guy in a van somewhere doing some work.

Yeah. It's the DEA coming and dealing with it, you know, through, you know, bypassing through the system and not really working with the cops that much. Right. But it was time for, for good old Tommy to really work his way up. Joe the Gentleman Masino, that was his nickname given. Joe the Gentleman. Joe the Gentleman.

The reason he was called Joe the Gentleman is he was always incredibly well put together, clean and perfectly tailored suits. He was, when you talk to him, he was incredibly polite and always respectful to no matter who he was talking to. He was just somebody that was very affable. He's got that Frank Sinatra, like forties gangster pronunciation where he like takes a minute to explain everything with good enunciation. Yes.

Yes. Absolutely. You know that's that guy. Yeah. Pretty much. He was a new, he was a relatively new head of the, of the Bonanno family as the main head of the Bonanno family had moved, kind of retired, semi-retired and moved away to Arizona. Right.

Right. Right. Moved upstate. Yeah. Exactly. It's a place to be in another place if you know what I mean. In a farm upstate with the fishies, a fish farm. Joey, you're missing, you're mixing your metaphors here, Joey.

Don't talk to me like you know me. My metaphors are great. Yeah, Joey. Yes, Joey. Oh, my God. Yes. And Joey. Joe the gentleman, yes, and Joey.

Joe the gentleman had recently actually put out a job. He had recently ordered a hit on a man betraying him with explicit orders to kill him and then bury him deep after the job was done. The job had been given to Gabe Infante and Gabe had unfortunately disobeyed orders. Instead of burying the man deep, he was left in a 50 gallon oil drum in New Jersey. The police quickly came across the body and came snooping around the Messino's home, putting him at great risk and in turn, the Bonanno family at great risk for being caught. Why isn't his last name Bonanno?

Good question, that's, I didn't even think about that, whatever, it doesn't matter. That's a good question. Yeah. Because probably the person who formed the crime family in the beginning last name was Bonanno and then, you know, as they age and retire, new people get appointed. I bet there's some Bonanno's in there. It's probably like Wayne Enterprises. Bruce Wayne's on the board, but he isn't like the president.

Yeah, right. This is more of a Lucius Fox. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Type. Gentleman. Got it. Yeah, pretty much. And the thing is, this was a big problem.

Gabe not only disobeyed orders, but he disobeyed them so badly that it put everybody at risk. So, you know what that means? Gabe's days were numbered. Gabe's days were numbered. Gabe's Dave, baby. Gabe Dave, but numbered. Gabe's Dave, baby. Masino had asked Tommy to take care of this problem for him, prove that he's worth what

people say he is. Tommy saw this as an honor, and to him, the reason he had to kill Gabe was entirely irrelevant. So on February 11th, 1987, Tommy would get Gabe into a warehouse filled with weed he was telling him he wanted to broker a deal with on. As you can see, once Gabe had entered the warehouse, Tommy stepped out and put a few rounds into his head with an automatic. Those around him helped load the body up into Tommy's trunk where he was then brought to Arthur Kill's landfill on Staten Island and buried deep, properly this time.

Tommy had just done a favor for the most powerful man he worked for. Things were looking up for him. Through his work, Tommy had come to know a few people and even took a liking to many. One in particular was Frank Gangie, or Gang-Gangie. I say Gangie, but it's like a nickname for your grandma. Oh, Gangie. Oh, you Gangie. Mem-mem.

Hello, boys. Are you here to see Tommy? Oh my God. Is that you, Frank Gangie the mobster? They said you had a soft voice, but- That's right, it's me, Frank Gangie. Oh my God. All these mobsters- I made you penny candy. Oh my God.

I knew I loved you, Gangie. I knew it. Oh, I love you too, boys. Let me kiss your cheeks, baby. Oh, God. Nomming on the cheeks. Frank actually was kind of like a tall, wiry, creepy-looking dude in general at this time. And he had come to know Tommy through drug dealing, of course, Coke specifically.

Frank actually approached Tommy initially with the- because he had heard he was good to deal with, to ask Tommy for money because he owed some people money. But Tommy didn't work like that. Tommy basically said, I know I'm not a lender, I'm not going to give you any money, but here's what you can do if you want to earn me some money and earn you some money as well. Get it on the Coke business. Start dealing. And he hooked him up with one of his main Coke dealers that he would then borrow Coke

from, sell, and then that money would go to that Coke dealer, and then that money would go to Tommy afterward. And that's kind of how he worked off his debt. Frank did really well with that, and he wasn't actually a full-on mafia member either, but he had worked with them often enough that they knew and trusted Frank. He wasn't just somebody that came out of nowhere looking for money from Tommy. He had been sent to Tommy for money because people knew Frank and trusted him. Tommy had also taken a liking to him for one reason or another.

He always paid on time and brought him quite a good amount of money by being a dealer for him. And those he liked, he wanted to bring closer. Tommy's way of paying it forward, kind of. Frank had come to know Tommy rather intimately as well, and described Tommy as, quote, a living, breathing monster. Yeah, that's why his version of paying it forward is getting you further ensnared in the world of terrible crime doing.

Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to do you a favor. I'm going to get you rich, but also make you a horrible criminal. Don't worry about it. You'll never be able to run away. I mean, it's a good, if you think about it, it's kind of a good way to secure yourself on the... You know what?

I guess that's true. If you're going to go down and they're going to bring you down, they're going to have to go down as well. And that's probably a lot of the way Tommy thought. But as Frank said, Tommy to him was a living, breathing monster. That killing for Tommy wasn't something he did as part of the job, but more that Tommy being paid to kill was a bonus for Tommy. That he would kill whether or not he was in the mafia.

And Frank really, truly believes that. But Tommy liked Frank, and Frank was making good money through Tommy, and so he continued to befriend him. But Frank would also prove a problem in the future for Tommy. Just not quite yet. What? Tommy was about to put... What does that mean?

That's so ominous. Yeah. Well, like I said, we're going to meet a couple of characters in this episode. Can I... Yeah, please. You know what this means, right? I know. Look, the fact that you said that, I know exactly what this means.

Tell me. Hit me with your theories. Um... You think Frank flips it? Frank... No. Frank cheats with Celeste. Oh my God.

And that's where this goes. I know. Look, I told you, this is drama. You guys don't see it, but I know this to be true. So Tommy is a, or Frank is a drug dealer, or is a drug like user, right? Uh, Frank is a drug user, yes. Yes. And he is in with Tommy, drugs plus drugs equals Celeste and Frank behind Tommy's back.

I'm letting you know what's about to happen. Okay. Tell me right now. You're kind of close. I may have... I'm close, and I'll rectify that, because I actually, as I was looking at the notes, I actually had to tweak a couple things, so I realized I wrote the wrong thing down. But don't worry, you're really close.

Am I? You are very close. Uh... So, but first, Tommy liked to put the people he liked and trusted and wanted to make sure he could trust them even further through a test. Always wanted to test their loyalty. Trust was earned with Tommy, not just given. And he was about to put...

Oh no. Oh no. Bring Frank in, even more. Frank's gonna see some crazy shit, hook up with Celeste, Celeste's gonna tell the cops. Oh my God. I see it as clear as day. Tommy, you big dummy. So a test was put forth for Frank.

You see a man named Talal Sikseek had been fingered as a rat. Sikseek? Tommy? Sikseek? I want to say it's Sikseek. There's also a lot of dealings with other types of organized crime in the city. This is a cartoon world that we're talking about. There was Colombians and Israelis specifically that were doing a ton of organized crime in

the same area. And they often worked together with the mafia in the town. And this guy, however, had been fingered as a rat. Somebody who had been feeding information to the feds. And if Tommy hated anything, it's betrayal and rats. He loathed them. And two of Tommy's associates had Talal captured and handcuffed to a chair with tape over his mouth and apartment 1A at 2807 Kings Highway and East 28th Street.

Jesus. Yeah. Here, he was going to test Frank's loyalty. He brought Frank to the apartment where both the associates were waiting with the man tied down to the chair. When they walked into the apartment, Talal was beaten, battered, and clearly scared for his life. But without much thought, almost instantly upon walking into the apartment, or discussion

at all, Tommy walked over pulling out his gun and shot him twice in the head right above his ear. Damn, he's seen it now. Frank's seen it all. Tommy, you big dummy! Frank got brought in too far! Yep, Frank knew it. Frank, uh, should I say, looking over to Frank, Tommy asked him to help him move the body

to the bathtub. Frank was petrified at this point. He had seen people killed, but never liked that. Frank was afraid, and he had never seen anyone killed quite as coldly. But he obeyed Tommy. Placing the body face down in the tub, Tommy then would take out a hacksaw meant for autopsies, and he handed it to Frank, and in his Mickey Mouse voice said the following. I want you to get undressed, get in the tub with him, and cut him into six pieces!

Oh my fucking god. Why did he do this? This is like not the greatest test. Frank froze, in place, and stuttered, telling Tommy after a few moments of silence that he couldn't do it. Has anyone ever passed that fucking test? Not really. But Frank froze up, he was clearly petrified and denied it.

He didn't want to do it. There was a little bit of arguing between the two of them, a little bit of bickering before Tommy relented and decided to do it himself while Frank watched. So Tommy went to the bathroom, removed all of his clothing, and got naked, neatly folded all of his clothing before placing them down. This is some crazy Hannibal shit, he's bare ass naked in a bathtub with running water cutting up a body. What a sight that must have been.

God damn. Yeah, it's a monster. I would die to be able to see that. Like he just killed this dude and now just right into the tub with the body still warm. I can't even imagine seeing it. So he got down, stripped naked, and then stepped into the bathtub and ran the water at a steady flow, not too weak or not too strong, to have the blood washed down with it steadily, a pattern we talked about just a little while ago.

With no hesitation in his movement, Tommy then began to dismember the body with the quote, expertise of a butcher, and quote, arms, then legs, then head, and then torso. Once dismembered, he would place all the body parts into bags and the bags into the trunk brought in by his associates. Once done, he would take a long shower, ensuring all the blood was off of him and rinsed out of the tub and was cleaned before getting dressed and taking the body and his associates out to the bird sanctuary to bury it. Frank was then told by Tommy to drop them off in a little area and come back in 45 minutes

to pick them up. He didn't question, he did it, but not before going to a bar and drinking very, very heavily. I get it. I get it. Holy shit. It's, I mean, I can't imagine, I just can't imagine being Frank and seeing all of that stuff. I mean, you're already dealing with crime and stuff, but you're not in the mafia.

You're probably doing side jobs and you've maybe seen a couple of dudes shot here and there, but it's always in the chaos of something happening and it doesn't, it's not as personal as what he saw. And then all of a sudden you literally see a serial killer at work. Like that is exactly what it was. Yeah, unless you're clear. When you think of the expertise of a butcher, you think about watching a show on Food Network where like the guy cuts between the bones and knows exactly how to like cut and like,

you know, like a filet or whatever that is where you like open up a chicken. Yeah. The pay yard. Yeah. Yeah. Like you kind of get the idea that, you know, Tommy was like this. He would arm, he knew exactly where to lop it off real quick. Oh, like I bet that would be terrifying to watch.

Like lifting the arm in such a way that it looks like it would, if the person was alive would hurt and then him just treating it like a slab of meat. Yeah. That's exactly how it comes off. And that's horrible. I can't imagine. I'd be fucked up beyond reason and Frank was equally fucked up. So he went off and he drank very heavily that night.

When he came back, as told 45 minutes later, Tommy actually did ask if he had been drinking because he could smell the alcohol on him and Frank said yes. But Tommy said nothing after that. I'd be like, fuck yeah, dude. What the hell do you think I just did? What he'd seen had completely changed Frank and quite frankly traumatized him. In the manner of Frank, it traumatized him. In a manner of Frank, it definitely traumatized him.

After picking them up and everyone going home, Frank would then take the next step towards Tommy's ultimate undoing. He would then meet up with a woman named Phyllis and for the next day and night on a coke-fueled binge, they would fuck on and off constantly. You were very close. Finding himself quite fond of the one that Tommy had threatened. He grew very, very close to Phyllis. This is like the perfect...

If I was a cop, like a FBI type, DEA type thing, how often is the plan just like wait till they fuck it up. Just wait. Just wait till one guy who knows something has sex with a girl who knows something and then it just happens. Are they doing work? It drives me crazy. They are doing...

The thing is, again, I'm leaving out most of what the FBI are doing because that's just a whole other story in itself. They are doing... I have to give it to Jim Hunt, man. He is doing everything in his power to get in. The problem is cracking into that circle is fucking impossible. He is desperately, constantly asking to have meetups with Tommy because he keeps trying to push off that he has a ton of marijuana that he wants to offload to Tommy and he

wants to sell Tommy all this marijuana and he wants to make a deal, but he has to make a deal with an in person. But everybody is dealing with like, no, Tommy doesn't do that. No, that's not how Tommy works. I can't get you a meeting with Tommy. I can get you a meeting with this other higher up that works for Tommy, but I can't get you a meeting with Tommy himself. And they are just desperately trying to do anything they can.

And the fact that Tommy just does everything he can to make sure that they can't get any info on him with the white noise in the car and not talking about business and making sure he's covering his mouth and talking in whispered tones and never being easy to track and follow around always has a different car. Like they're, what can you do? And that's that's actually kind of something very scary to read about is like, if somebody is doing everything in their power to cover their tracks, what can you do? Yeah, I mean, in 2018, there's many things you can do, but in, right, but in 1987, yeah,

I don't know. I don't know enough about police work in those days. Yeah. And the thing is the night he went and killed and got and watched this guy, it is brought up that he was being watched that night, but they lost him. They were trying to follow him, but they lost him. So he kind of Tommy had a bit of a luck in that he got away from the cops when he was going to take care of this guy at the warehouse.

It's almost bad. It's almost worse that he was able to though, that he was able to get away. Yeah, because if he, if he had been taken in that day, if they had just been like tracking him or he like found out and he got wigged out, the whole thing with Frank never would have happened. Yeah. The problem is Tommy still has another five or so years. I think no, another seven, eight, nine, and he's got another three to four years before

he's caught. So he's got another three to four years before things go down. And if things don't go down the way they're about to go down that we're going to talk about in the next episode, it's possible Tommy could have gone on for an X more number of years before technology caught up with him. The thing that makes Tommy scary outside of the fact that he is clearly a monster, a soulless monster who enjoys killing too much is just how, how he got away with it for so long and that it wasn't even necessarily him that got him caught, just a few bad poor judgments

on people that he thought he could trust. Yeah. That's crazy. It's super, duper scary. So at this point in the mafia where that wraps up, Tommy is as big as he's going to get. He has done an incredible favor for the, for Masino, Joe, the gentleman who is head of the Bonanno family. And he is now the go to assassin for all five crime families.

When they want somebody killed and removed, they always ask the, the Masino and the Bonanno family if Tommy can do it. He is the guy, the number one assassin. And he, now Tommy at this point has three different houses and these two different bars. He has a house that's like very big and elaborate, a small one that's kind of tucked away and another one that's more for business than anything else. Like he is a man with power and wealth and everything he ever was, was looking for when he started doing this.

He has stepped onto the throne that he wanted. The next step for him would be head of a family, but you kind of get the impression that that's not really what he wanted. He just wants to kill the very, he, yeah, he was very, very happy. He likes what he likes. Yeah. Yeah. And Frank Gange specifically believes that Frank, that Tommy killed over a hundred people,

but the, the FBI and DEA believes it was more like over 60 people, which is still ridiculous. That's not not like a small enough number for me to be like, Oh, okay. Yeah, exactly. Well, because again, he was sentenced for 18. Now they found 19 bodies, but they couldn't identify one of them because it was so old, but they found, they were able to nail them for 18, which is still a ridiculous number. Like if you look at some serial killers in the past, like they only get to, and I say only very not, not quite as lightly as I should be, but are saying it lighter than I should

rather, but like most serial killers get upwards of like six to 10 ish before they're caught. And then this guy nailed for 18, definitely close to somewhere around 60, they believe. It's horrifying, but that's Tommy Patera, man. And that's going to have to wrap up part three. I could have done all of it in this part, but we would have been going for another hour or so. I figured can't even begin to figure out where this is. Like I know where it's going, but you told me there's twists and I hope I'm unprepared.

I thought this is like five seconds from the end of the story. But like now that I know that it's like a whole other hour, I'm like, Jesus Christ, what, what else happens to Tommy K? My man, Tommy K, I'm curious. So your theory right now is that Frank squeals to Phyllis and Phyllis squeals to the police. Yeah. Or like the police gets involved and they have some dumbass idea to get out of there. No, no, no, no, no.

This is, this is one of those like, uh, uh, this is like what happened to Clinton. Like where the friend got Monica Lewinsky to like give her the dress and stuff like that kind of thing. It's going to be one of those Frank and Phyllis are going to convince Celeste to turn on Tommy. Interesting. Boy, I don't know. I don't know what that's what I think is going to happen. I think it's going to be similar.

I think Tommy's going to kill Frank. I think Frank's just going to be like, I saw him kill somebody. I was there and then Phyllis is going to be like, he tried to kill me and the police are going to be like, where this wire? That's what I think. Well, we'll find out next week, God, final part of Tommy Patera, Tommy Karate, part three, the end of the fall, the fall of, uh, of maybe the greatest assassin in that area for, you know, the eighties and, uh, late seventies.

But Tommy would get a lot, uh, many, many more kills and, um, you know, Tommy, Tommy does, uh, you know, eventually show signs of a serial killer. He starts getting cockies and he's been taking, keep another thing that, that to keep note of that we'll talk about more in next episode is that he was taking trophies from every one of his kills, every single one. He was taking a body part or a piece of their, of their jewelry that they were wearing or something that he could take home and, uh, keep for his own. That is absolutely so weird.

But like, I, I'm just like, I'm just like so like, I know, I know that like not everybody's like on board with the idea of us doing true crime all the time. You know, like, I mean, I know we've gotten a lot of positive feedback, but I know there's been some people, but like of all the fucking stories that we could have went like, you know, mostly we cover things that are like almost certainly false. And it's like so amazing to hear like all the crazy shit that people think, right? But this is like completely unbelievable, right? Like this is like not how these stories go.

This is the plot of like a movie that was made up that would be criticized for being too outrageous. This is like smoke and aces level crazy. And it's true. Yeah, it's all true, which is insane. I will say, you know, talking about true crime, last episode was one of our best received episodes and fastest listened to episodes. So thank you very much for that, everybody.

We sincerely appreciate that. I'm very happy that that you guys are really loving it. And to address a quick question that we have been getting as well, but people who want to know about the indie popcorn live show, if that's going to be uploaded, it is not going to be uploaded. That specific episode was a little shorter on purpose. And we spent most of the panel or at least half of the panel listening to audience stories and kind of riffing on them.

That was really, really great. So if you're one of the ones that was out at any popcorn that came to go to come see us, thank you very much. That was super, super fun. Zach Baggins became my arch nemesis apparently. You brought it up. You kept bringing it up. Not us.

I know. I know. I got really upset. I got really heated. You are not a fan of Zach. We're definitely. I am, Zach. I think you're really good.

I think you're... What do you mean? What do you mean? I think you're really good. Don't listen to these two guys, Zach. I think you're talented. I don't want to fight ghosts, too. I want to be a ghost fighter.

Oh, a ghost fighter. Hello. All right. Well, that's it for episode eight here on Shilluminati Podcast. Tommy Patara, part two. Thank you all so much for listening. Hell yeah, babies. We have...

Yeah, man. We've cracked over 305 star reviews on iTunes. So thank you so much. That is huge for us. If you guys are enjoying it, make sure you just leave a positive review wherever you're listening to it. All the people asking for merch, we've started down that path. We hear you.

Yeah. We've started down that path and keep your ears and eyes peeled for that on our Twitter or even on the subreddit or on the R and R episodes. Well, now it's when they go live when we do the next episode. Just sincerely thank you for the support. This has been such a fun time and I'm excited to continue on. Thank you to you guys, Mr. Alex and Mr. Jesse, for joining me. It's shocking.

It's shocking how many people are listening to this. Continue to tell your friends. This is a delightful, completely out-of-genre thing for me to do. So thank you for asking me to be on the show. It's good vibes. It's great. I'm loving it. You want to talk to us?

You can chilluminati.pod on Twitter, chilluminati.podcast subreddit, faciane.a on Twitter, Jesse Cox on Twitter for Jesse and Mathis Games for myself. The subreddit is still awesome. There's still some really cool stories going on in there. And I lurk. And I lurk. I'm in there. I read like every post.

He does. He talks about it all the time. Yeah. I read the post too. And if you have suggestions, we have a proper suggestions thread now so you can just go ahead and throw all your suggestions in there if you want to see us cover something very specific. I will say that once we are out of the Tommy Paterra story, the next episode is back to

some weird stuff, a weird stuff of a story that actually happened. So that'll be fun to watch. Can't wait. And I'll try and throw together some of my mini episodes for you guys too. Oh yeah, definitely. If you want to do mini episodes, if you want more mini episodes, we're going to have some more for you coming up as well. And we will see you next time on chilluminati.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.