Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 83 - Project MK-ULTRA Part 4 FINALE

Episode Date: January 5, 2021

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That's Stitch of Fate of Vampire the Masquerade fifth edition podcast. Hello, hello, everybody. And welcome back to the Chiluminati podcast, episode 83. As always, I'm one of your hosts, Mike Martin, joining my two co-hosts, Alex Fasciani, who's doing everybody's like superman flying. Yeah, superman flying. You gotta launch the podcast. I will not superman fly.

I'm fine on the ground. I'm good. I'm fine on the ground, too. I'm afraid of heights. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. But that hasn't stopped the heights of our Patreon from climbing ever higher.

The values, the benefits, the good you're adding to the world. It's unbelievable. You're going to go to this website and you are going to become the next president of the United States on January 21st. Yourself and that's not a conspiracy. That's the truth. So head on down to patreon.com slash Chiluminati pod. And you too can become the president of the United States.

You are making promises you cannot keep right after this episode for 15 minutes. You will be in my as far as I'm concerned. You will be the president. You'll get at least one vote. You will get one letter from Alex signed. Thank you, Mr. President. I'm still too ambitious. I will find a different dead identity for each person in that tier.

And I will vote as for each one of as I don't want to have to report you. But I will. I will. I will. You don't have to. You don't have to. I want to do live shows when the pandemic's over. And I mean, I don't want to replace you with some stranger.

You want to just like find some YouTube video of me like Alex. Alex Fasiani at Hard Rock Cafe Lubbock, Texas. I'm going to take down the government. Did you know like Michael Richards? Did you know there's a town in Texas simply called Cut and Shoot, Texas? I love that. Fantastic. There's like a thousand people that live there.

I know my two favorite things to do because of it. It's an area in which I visit. It's near an area I visit often. Those are the two American pastimes. Cutting and shooting is true. Not necessarily in that order. I think reverse cutting up, you know, like you cut a beef up. You know, you cut up your enemies.

Yeah, there's a lot of cutting and then shooting movies. This seems like this seems like drugs to me. Yeah. This both seems like drugs. Shooting my drugs. LSD. Hell yeah. Bring it back.

Hell yeah. Shooting LSD. That's a problem in 2021. In 2021, the cigarettes of America is going to be LSD. We deserve it. Honestly, we just need to we just need to escape into a different realm putting it out there. What if there was a day just put it out there where the government

said effort or making everything legal for today? The purge like the purge, but not like murder. But like, you know what? Get a little wild. Oh, like you can just like if you have some heroin in your house and you've been dying to get wacky. Yeah, but you're like, you know, but not like in your home. You want to take it out to a restaurant

and you want to go, you know, not scary farm like walking on your way to splash mount and drop an acid mushroom laser. Oh my God, unless you've done Disney high. I'm just letting you know the Millennium Falcon ride hits different when you're chilling with the big boy. I don't know. That's true. Dude, Disneyland is an amazing place because they added alcohol

to it. When I drunk drove the Millennium Falcon at midnight. That was I miss pre covid, man. I was used to be able to do used to stumble onto the bridge of the Millennium Falcon and drunk drive. It was somebody else's mom. It's a while. Shit.

My God, Alex, what a life you lived pre covid. I want to go back there. It'll never be the same. I remember I remember squirting that lime juice into my eye like it was yesterday. Oh, well, boys, we got to wrap it back to the more fun topic of conversation today because today I just wanted to give everybody a pick me up before we have to go straight.

I understand. I understand. Squidwardville. I guess we're going down to Debbie downtown. A lot of specifics there like a lot of not just real specific moments you picked out. What do you mean? The lime juice in your eye.

That's real specific moments. It really happened. It's real. I believe you. But it just happened. There's emotional context to it that we don't get to have that you do. Did I already tell the story where I slipped and fell in my

own piss during a live show while I was supposed to be performing on stage? We were there. We saw that on my knees. Was that I was going to say was that in Boston? Good times. Don't worry. I think we every man I'm going to put this out there almost

every man. I can't say every almost every man has had to go into a bathroom where the floor was covered in something. It's like Jumanji happened in the bathroom. Like you just like a big snake to be somewhere like I don't know. We're going to listen. This is I'm going to make the story short, but this is like

Boy Scout era, 12 year old Mathis. Oh my God. Yahweh. I'm going to picture the kid from up. Is that okay? Yeah, that's totally fine. Yahweh. So all Boy Scouts from around the world go on camp.

Boy Scouts going to Camp Yahweh? Yeah. Seems like Jumanji adjacent. Yeah. No, I can't remember. It was like, uh, I can't remember the exact name of it. It was like Yagu or something weird. Camp Yahweh.

It's God Camp, right? Look it up. Seriously, Boy Scout Camp begins with a Y. It's weird. But point is I too like went to the bathroom. I ran into a stall. I opened the door and I stepped in something and slipped and fell into it.

Only to realize it was human fecal matter. Yahweh. Yahweh. Yahweh. Yahweh. Okay. I think I have you all topped really quickly. In Poland, at a Polish train station, went to the bed.

It was like midnight, went to the bathroom, had to go number two, floor covered in liquid. Don't know what it was. Went to the bathroom and was just like, like squatting over the toilet because it was not, it was not okay. And then looked around. No toilet paper. So it's a hobble my ass to another stall.

No. It was, I never felt, I like spent the rest of the vacation kind of unclean. Like I just felt like. No shower. We're going to fix that. It was no one shower. You can cut this out of the podcast if you want, Mathis,

but if you want to go on a journey like one of these journeys. You go on YouTube, Google double tapered shit. And there's a clip of a dude who is a base coach for the Royals or something like that. And he is standing there and he is like, his mic is on, but he, it doesn't seem like he knows it's on. And he's like telling this story about this time that he

like shit his pants down his leg when he was in Vegas. And it's like unbelievable. Oh my God. Anyway, anyway, so last, last week. So this episode will either be depending on how long it's been when I get to a certain point in the script. Will either be the final episode or next week will absolutely be the final.

So how is that where we're at? We're like, depending on where we get to. No, no, it's just depending on how long, like, because it depends on how much, how much time gets dedicated to you guys going. Are you fucking kidding me? It just depends on how sad we get. Just say it.

Yeah. It just depends on how sad we are. It really depends on how we, how long we wallow in certain aspects of the revelations that are due for today, because while last week was all revelations of like the deep, the depths they would go and then the eventual death of one of their own and the subsequent cover up that government had. And you would think that that would eventually put rains on

the MK ultra program. What today is about is to see the absolute explosion that MK ultra had following this death and cover up the tentacles in which they crawled into every aspect of government and so many different conspiracies and actual like assassination attempts, which is where we're going to open up with today. And MK ultra truly grew. We're starting at assassinations?

We're starting at assassinations. Cool. All right. Just so I don't have to ask the boss. See that basically where we ended anyway last time? Yeah. That's kind of where we were kind of just listening into. But today you watch that there was no true punishment right

away for MK ultra. It just grew like a cancer and did not stop. Now, what the last thing we covered as a brief kind of refresher is at the end, Gottlieb's little memo that let everybody know the materials and methods he was researching or wished to research as MK ultra was growing, which were, but I'm not going to list all of them just to name a few though materials, which will promote intoxicating effects of alcohol

but not actually an alcohol substances, which will enhance the ability of individuals to withstand privation, torture and coercion during interrogation and so-called brain washing. Can I ask you a question? God, I'm already ruining this. That's fine. Alcohol that produces intoxication, but it's not alcohol.

Right. Isn't that just alcohol? Why doesn't it need to be alcohol? Why can't they just use alcohol? They could quickly like prick somebody with and then give them like intoxicating. They're drunk. They don't know drunk.

They need to be taken away. It's just when you said liquids that are alcohol, but like make you drunk. I was like, why not just use alcohol? I didn't say liquids, materials, which will prevent or factor out or create or promote. I just can't get over the list. It's like things that they're only going to cover like the

laser beam from a gold finger, the scorpion thing, the spear that he shoots out from Mortal Kombat. Kylo Ren's lightsaber Damien's powers from the omen when he kills that lady. The thing I want to make the thing thing. Godzilla's nuclear breath. Yeah, we could just get that. Yeah, that way.

I mean, yeah, I mean, it's as absurd as your being. Like if there was even a sliver of a potential that those things could be made real under this program, they'd be trying to do it. And one of my favorite ones substances which alter personality structure in such a way that the tendency of the recipient to become dependent upon another person is enhanced.

You know, like that kind of leader formula. Yeah, like cult leader formula. Yeah, that is an excellent way to put it. That is like. He's dependent shit like for real. And that was the beginning of 1955 and that's where we pick up. See, in the beginning in 1955, Gottlieb was actually further

than drafted because a few assassination plots were happening or were already attempted, one of which was actually one to kill Prime Minister Zhao and live China. They attempted to assassinate him by actually bombing a plane that was to take Zhao to the Asian African Congress at Bandung, Indonesia. It actually exploded in midair. They did get the explosion off America, see American CIA

people, but it was determined to have been caused by a time bomb triggered by an American made MK7 detonator. But Zhao had actually changed plans. One of the last minutes was on an entirely another flight and avoided the assassination attempt in 1955. But they just killed other random people. Oh, yeah, whoever was on the plane died. Everybody on the plane died.

Oh, how many dark sides do we fucking have? People of the world, please remember that Fred Rogers is also an American. Don't forget about every Fred Rogers. There's like 30 of these assholes. Also have the guy from Smash Mouth, please. That's true. Guy Fieri is un-American.

Yes. It's a saloon. Not a topic. Is it a coincidence that I said the guy from Smash Mouth and then Jesse said Guy Fieri because I don't think I've ever seen the same. I look very similar to the same dude. Well, the CIA was frustrated, but not deterred.

They wanted to kill Zhao. So they figured the next best plan was to try and poison him and therefore that's when they reached out to Gottlieb of MK Ultra and enlisted him now officially entangling both the CIA and MK Ultra. The chemist concocted a poison to be placed in a rice bowl that Zhao would eat from. But shortly after before the attempt was to be made, news of it

reached Deputy Director of the CIA General Lucian Truscott, Jr. And Truscott felt that the agency's role in assassinating Zhao would become clear and cause great trouble for the United States. And so the attempt was polled last minute. When was this? When was the end of this? 1955.

That shot snakes. Their snakes were told they had their fangs gave off hypnopoison. Yeah. It was air hypnosis next greatest weapon. I'm not like we're not like you're you're we're laughing like that's like not what's happening here, but that's like just exactly what's happening here. No, yeah, yeah, it's funny enough.

But also in 1955, a new player came into the fold for MK Ultra, a man by the name of George Hunter White, and he was moved from New York to San Francisco. And rather than see this as a deficit to MK Ultra where he was initially working and then moving into San Francisco as way as White ran the safe house out that way. Gottlieb took the opportunity to instead use him to expand MK Ultra into San Francisco.

This operation had a similar goal to MK Ultra Prime, but with an added twist. So this is like a sub branch of MK Ultra. It doesn't actually go by MK Ultra, but it is being controlled by MK Ultra. They wanted to feed. So this this new this new place being run by White is where the place they wanted to feed drugs to unsuspecting civilians

and observe their reactions, but add sex as a spicy twist to the whole thing. Go on having sex. What are you talking about? Yeah, civilians White gathered a group of prostitutes whose job was to bring clients to this place that he would from here on now only referred to as the pad and dose them with LSD while White watched and recorded their reactions.

This particular new operation was done. Fuck man. What do you what would you what would you dub this operation? This is your operation. What would you name it? Operation fuck smell. Okay. Honeypot and operation fuck smell.

This was dubbed operation Midnight Climax. Nice. Are you fucking kidding me? No, I'm not kidding you. That is the name of the operation that White did. America World Police like what the fuck is happening? And so to help with the recruitment of prostitutes, White contracted a man by the name of Ira Eich Feldman who had

retired to California at the time. His first undercover job was to go undercover for the narcotics bureau. He worked a sting where he posed as a pimp where he reports that he had a half a dozen girls working for him at the time and another where he used a drug addicted prostitute to trap her Johns and paid her in heroin. What he was undercover.

He was just moonlighting as a pimp. He was undercover. No, it was undercover work. He was fucking moonlighting. It was it was it was legal because it was undercover work. Did he find the research with his fucking profits? Can we just take a moment to talk about how every time someone from I don't know today, but even in the last 10 years is

like, I miss what America was a better nation 1950s is when we really like we're talking about the 50s right now. Like, yes, this guy had all these whores and he was working for the drugs to entrap the Johns and you're like, what the shit? We tried to kill this guy by blowing up his plane, but then he wasn't on the plane, but we still blew up the plane and everybody on the plane died.

Maybe wrong in their assumptions about the 50s. So oh my God was excelling at this undercover pimp job at this particular time. And so why decided to undercover pimp job, dude? What the I can't I can't believe that they were like, all right, get me the former undercover pimp. No, no, he's he's actively an undercover pimp at this time still.

I said former because I was referring to it in terms of modern day. All right. So so this dude is an undercover pimp. He has multiple women working for him. I can't figure out how they structured this as he was like, I'm taking out a territory like I can't how he came in there and did this.

I have no idea how this happened. But then the fact that he then reports back like my question is my question is he's like, they're like, we need to have like a sex experiment and he's like, well, funnily enough, sir, I happened to be running this sick ass operation on the side where I got about eight or nine bitches underneath me, baby. They call me.

So I need to put I meant to put this up. They call me. Choco start like intergalactic. We are going we are going to lightning blitz through a few topics that should be that should be in will have in some of them will be full on episodes in the seer in this show. But we will have to go through some like a like whitey bulger is going to be brought up in this episode.

What? You can't talk. You can't talk. What do you mean? Whitey bulger? You can't just be like whitey bulgers in this and be like, no, you'll see you'll see when we get there. You'll see what we get there.

He's in this episode. He's in this episode, but we only going to be able to barely cover how he's involved because we're going to one one day we will talk about whitey bulger. We will. But right now can we watch? Can we do a team watch of that Johnny Depp movie? Sure, absolutely.

Anyway, so white got word that Ike was excelling as an undercover pimp and that's why he decided. No, not not whitey to other white. This is the white that's running the new operation in the new kid in town. Yeah. So he decided, let's bring let's bring Feldman in. Let's bring Ike and even further to M.K.

Ultra. So he decided Ike's assignment was to recruit prostitutes who were unwitting M.K. Ultra contractors. Here was the terms of their contract unwitting contractors. Each prostitute was paid between fifty and a hundred dollars each time they brought a client back to the pad. They were also on top of it given a quote get out of jail

free pass. Unquote literally they were given a card when they were recruited for this that gave them whites phone number to call if they were ever busted by the police. They were then to give the card to the police officer who would then go to call white and the prostitute would then be set free. This is the plot of like a sixties Batman episode close

nineteen fifty five mayor. They're having these ladies of the night are strapping these men. Batman. This is a Batman. I'll stop you now Joker Adam West dude. He sounds like he doesn't sound like Batman. He sounds like he's lost.

Holy bachelor pad Batman. There's a bunch of wars here like climax Batman. Holy me like that man. Could air hypnosis be a Batman. Funny you should say that Robin. My penguin hars will deal with you. One MK ultra officer later on went to say quote if we were scared enough of a drug not to try it ourselves.

We sent it to white in San Francisco and he would just feed it to the horse because the reason was Dwight was notorious within the agency to not be scared to test anything on anyone. You see the operations in New York were still in some weird twisted way in their own mind operating by a set of guidelines. There were certain drugs they wouldn't use like fight club like what guidelines but like if certain drugs would were had

to pretend to have potential to kill or maybe hurt like they were already killing people I'm aware listen this is why I said just twisted in their mind but it but white in their mind in San Francisco was the the play zone anything they weren't comfortable testing went to Sacramento or San Francisco with white and that's where he that's where they sent them. White Feldman and other agents observed that a man will often

speak with within these drug tests. They observed that a man will often speak to the woman next to him after sleeping after sleeping with her. So they began assigning their prostitute specifically to stay with the clients for several hours later after the deed had been done. Quote to find a prostitute who is willing to stay is a hell of a shock to anyone used to prostitutes.

It has a tremendous effect on the guy. It's a boost to his ego if she's telling him he was really neat and she and she said and she wants to stay for a few extra hours. Timeout 1950s prostitution is yeah hilarious like G. Mr. That was certainly a neat time I had with you. Wow.

You should really how it how it went mean it. I make you feel special. Gee Alice. Nobody's ever said anything like that to me. I mean I've got to keep in mind they're also on LSD also you're a praying mantis Alice. I was saying like they're also on LSD as this is happening continuing to quote most of the time he gets pretty vulnerable

what the hell is he going to talk about not the sex. So he starts talking about his business. It's at this time she can lead him gently not basically 1955 they discovered pillow talk is what it seems like an LSD I guess would just make it a little easier. But yeah they're trying to see if they can get these men these civilians to start divulging personal information. How deep and how much personal information personal information

about these men do they know about them like talking about like business details what are they willing to divulge about their job and how much how much of it is true. Like there's that's a good question if it was somebody that you knew like if it was somebody you knew if it was like a target you could be like you could report back what he says and you would be a baseline right. Yeah.

So here's the thing we don't know if they ever went to go because again we don't have the documents to follow up on some of the stuff but at the same time yeah they could be fucking lying as MK ultra at any point since it's inception been remotely scientific in any way. I'd like to think that at least some of the people had scruples but I'm going to say in general it's a big N.O. Exactly so I wouldn't put it on them to actually do their

research afterward regardless of how it went down. Gottlieb was actually pleased with the results and he ordered it even further expanded. Why open another safe house in Mill Valley. This safe house had the privacy necessary to test things that went beyond sex and drugs things brought to test here included stink bombs itching powder sneezing powder and diarrhea diarrhea diarrhea inducers drug.

Oh go ahead. Sorry. No I just so the process would bring them back and then like and now for two hours of ass blasting. Yep they would they would just test other more painful things than civilians brought here. It's just literally people that were like perhaps we should try this.

Yeah like it's just pure nonsense. Yeah they also tested this stuff there drug lace swizzle sticks ultra thin hypodermic needles that could be used to poison a wine bottle through the cork and glass capsules that would release noxious gases when those are three James Bond you weren't saying James Bond when we were talking about the giant eight ball chamber. I definitely was I mean like scientists Nazi organizations

that those are like Pierce Brosnan James Bond things what's like I was also the Asian man and now I'm the son of the other guy like what like you know the one where the guy like changes his entire body. Yeah no that's that crazy. I'm talking about the crazy where it's like the scene was like and then it's like it's like you know like the not evil villain part but like the evil villains underling who like

when instead of dying he's like and now actually this capsule Mr Bond right. Yeah I'm talking about some spy jinx. Yeah I'll just like the guy at the end race like my plane is also a satellite and the satellite is also like and I'm also my own brother son Mr Bond like the shoe boot you're talking like a boot with poison on the end of the Bond movie. Yeah I get you.

Well continuing on Gottlieb was just I'm just saying there was a bond movie where it where North Korean man turned into a white dude and then I remember it nothing. It was insane. It was insane. Was that the Pierce Brosnan one. Yeah it's the last Pierce Brosnan. It's the one he gets the like glass in his face remember.

Yeah okay yeah yeah I remember that and there's like there's like a I remember there's like a ice car chase. Yeah I get killed by an ice sculpture. Yeah and a man gets sucked out of a plane and it's just I can't a movie dude what a masterpiece. I can't handle that movie. It's too much. There's like based on fact as you've learned now apparently

apparently it's all based on fact and just a reminder it's saying that man was so committed he changed his dick. He's so committed he was like I want you to recreate all of me it's crazy it's crazy come back for us man. We gotta go back to MKL. Illuminati's about fantasy worlds and Jesse which is that's what we gotta do but we gotta do real life shit. Gottlieb now completely empowered by the fact that he got away

with a literal accidental or well maybe not accidental murder and also remember his feet at the top of the CIA chain he has no oversight. The expansion continues continuing in 1955 Georgetown University Hospital in Washington announced plans to construct a six story 100 bed edition called Gorman annex Gottlieb got word of such a thing and secretly paid $375,000 or in 2020 money $3.6 million to to the building project

disguised as a charitable donation with the following stipulations one one sixth of the total space in the new hospital wing will be available to the chemical division of the TSS thereby providing laboratories and office space technical assistance equipment and experimental animals to justify the expense to CIA superiors Gottlieb listed for justifications agency employees would be able to participate in the work without the University of the hospital

authorities being aware of agency interest agency sponsorship of sensitive research projects will be completely deniable full professional cover will be provided for up to three biochemical employees of the chemical division and human patients and volunteers for experimental use will be available under controlled clinical conditions. These are the four of justifications he gave to the CIA basically saying no one will ever goddamn know we're

gonna have people at our disposal period. The worst part is we actually know very little about the experiments that actually went on in the Gorman annex but it is known that terminally ill patients were among the participants that were brought there two decades after it closed down CIA director stands field Turner would say when pressed for details quote there is no factual evidence of what went up what went on it is just missing it is not that

it didn't happen and quote literally saying we know it happened we have no idea what went on goddamn I mean that was one of the four points is he literally said look no one will know and no one's gonna find out and he was right the man sold it well it was completely correct at this time as well magic mushrooms began falling into the fold the so called magic mushroom was actually brought to the CIA's attention by a married couple Valentina and Gordon Wasson

they had made two trips to Mexico in search of the elusive quote God's flesh mushroom which had not been successful but on their third trip in 1955 they met up with a young native person who took them to a Mazatec woman named Mary Maria Sabina Sabina was known as a guardian of ancient wisdom who used mushrooms to commune with the infinite on the 29th of June in 1955 Sabina passed out the mushrooms to 20 individuals including the Wassons the first non-natives to partake Gordon

recalls the experience as thus quote we were never more wide awake and the visions came whether our eyes were open or closed the effect the mushrooms is to bring about a vision of the spirit a split in the person a kind of schizophrenia with a rational side continuing to reason and to observe the sensations that the other side is enjoying literally want to do this mad scientists at this point they just mind is attached to buy an elastic cord to the vagrant just doing all kinds

of drugs and no one is stopping them and they just keep just trying shit out because they're obsessed with drugs and they're like going insane because they're like ingesting drugs and like living a crazy life. The CIA unsurprisingly was incredibly eager to get their hands on this for use in MK Ultra. I want to go on that trip. I'm just putting it out there. Yeah, just get one out to the woods and have natives just give you mushrooms. Oh my God. I mean like I would love

a nice little guide. Yeah, I'd love to have a guide on that trip. Sure. I would need one. So CIA decided to end up contacting the Park Davis Pharmaceutical firm to find out more. The CIA made an offer. They would be given a chemist that would stay at the firm but would work for the CIA and the CIA would pay the chemist salary Park Davis Park Davis suggested a man by the name of James Moore. James Moore was a chemist at Park Davis as a graduate student more had worked

on the Manhattan Project. He was I know that is a resume. Yeah, he was offered the position and accepted though later said quote if I had thought I was participating in a scheme run by a small band of mad individuals, I would have demurred. I would have taken that offer to work on the metal gear instead. Yeah. So basically, he didn't think very highly of the CIA at this particular point. I rather after his work with them. Moore had heard of Wassen's expedition and

contacted Gordon about accompanying them on their journey. Moore even offered money from a foundation and that's an air quotes. It was a fake foundation to fund the trip. And of course, Wassen accepted and was sent $2,000 from the CIA's geschichter fund and for medical research to take more along. Wassen Moore and two French mycologists returned to Sabina who agreed to repeat the ceremony for the group. Wassen once again felt the magical effects, but Moore

did not enjoy it near so much. Moore did not like the dirt floor was cold and hungry had diarrhea and quote it's all over. He basically didn't enjoy being out on the wilderness sounds like just. I don't know if he thought he was going to be in like a five star hotel doing these things or what, but this is like Tommy Lee Jones and men in black is what I'm imagining. Is that weird? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess that fits more than return to the CIA with samples of the

psychoactive mushrooms. CIA officers had already scouted a mushroom producing area of Pennsylvania and contracted a couple of farmers for help producing this rare fungus. Gottlieb warned them though that research in a psychoactive aspect must remain an agency secret. Unfortunately for Maria Maria Sabina, Gordon Wassen was not quiet about his adventures and the end result was a 17 page spread in life magazine where Wassen described his experiences and named the

town where they were performed. This resulted in a hordes of curious Americans traipsing into Mexico for a lick of the magic mushroom. So we just utterly destroyed their way of life. This is like how the magic mushroom came into mainstream media. Interesting. I was literally just watching a thing like yesterday about the same thing happening to a fucking toad. Oh yeah. Yeah. Because you want the one we can lick? No, it's like this dude, this dude Hamilton has the show

on vice where he like went into the jungle. It's like a travel show for food, but it's like drugs. And he like went to the jungle to find this like famous psychedelic toad and smoked the like stuff that comes out of the toad when you squeeze the toad's glands. Oh God. And it like he went have this like insane experience and it like sent people out there in droves. Yep. So so to like correct it, he like learned how to he's a biochemist and he learned how to synthesize the chemical that

the toad secretes so as to have enough for anybody who would ever need it without ever needing to like poetry. Yeah. A life. Yeah. Oh, at least at least he tried to he made that step here. He just did a spread in life probably enjoyed the fame and ruin an entire 17 pages on psychedelic mushrooms. Yep. Seven on his whole experience going there like his whole trip was like the 17 states reading a science fiction story in the 50s. Yeah. And that's how we end 1955 though

the introduction of mushrooms into the the greater American culture in a way and going into 1956 can the agency continues to spread. We're going to start with the Mansfield proposal and on the April 9th of 1956, a man by the name of Mike or a senator by the name of Mike Mansfield of Montana addressed his colleagues saying the following quote because of the very nature of the Central Intelligence Agency. I think it is important that a joint congressional committee be

established for the purpose of making continued studies of the activities of the agency. The CIA should as a matter of law keep that committee as fully and as currently informed as possible with respect to its activities. Alan Dulles director of CIA may make no mistakes in assessing intelligence, but he should not be the lone judge. End quote. So basically 1956 a senator stepped up and be like, Hey, who watches the watchers? Who's keeping tabs on the CIA? We need to be making

a committee. Now, obviously those who within the within the CIA were not happy about that at all. But Mansfield still proposed a 12 man congressional committee that would one make continuing studies of the activities of the Central Intelligence Agency to require the CIA to keep the joint committee fully and currently informed with respect to its activities. In three, give the committee power to require by subpoena or otherwise the attendance of such witnesses

and the production of such books, papers and documents as it deems advisable. So just basically an oversight committee. In his speech, the senator mentioned reports that the agency had funded neo nazis in Germany organized militia raids inside China. Yeah, what about that agents sent agents to quote start a revolution in Guatemala, tap the telephone of President Jose Figueres of Costa Costa Rica and illegally detained quote a Japanese citizen for eight months, all of which turned out

to be true. And he said Mansfield and he said is and what bitch? Yeah, really? He just continually was like there's here's a night and he's like a bunch of reasons these people need oversight publicly. Eisenhower insisted that he too wanted tighter oversight of the CIA. But behind closed doors, Eisenhower told AIDS that Mansfield Bill would be passed quote over my dead body and quote why? Why? Cuz he didn't think that it was needed. It was power. It's just so named an

eight member committee, the president, the president's board of consultants on foreign intelligence activities that he said would monitor the CIA and let him know if anything was missing. Now, probably to your surprise, this didn't really wasn't the board's purpose in any way. One of the agency's most powerful supporters in Congress, Senator Richard Russell of Georgia announced that his armed services committee, which was charged with reviewing the CIA budget would establish a new

subcommittee to review the agency's activities, which I don't understand how that passed. I don't know how that went by the dude like one of the agency's most powerful supporters is like I got this guys. Don't worry. Of course, in a letter to one of his colleagues, Russell made it clear that he did not intend whatsoever to review the review rather to be any more intrusive than what his committee had been already doing all these years. So basically saying don't worry, nothing's going to change.

After three days of debate, there was still support for Mansfield proposal to the CIA's dismay. But due to pressure from the CIA and the White House, 12 of the 37 co-sponsors removed their names from the proposal and then opposed it. Eisenhower pressured Senate leaders to do whatever necessary to ensure that it did not pass. Russell asserted that it would be better to abolish the CIA than to subject it to possibly unfriendly oversight. But the proposal is a bunch of dingle-hoppers.

What year was this? What year was this? 1956. Okay, I was trying to I was trying to think about when McCarthy was and that was up until 54. So I mean, like during this whole time period, we're still in peak cold war where they're like, all means are justified. Let's doesn't even matter. We have to have we'll burn down entire nations to defeat communism. They don't think about they don't think about the ripple effect of what might happen to those like leaving these things unchecked

for, I don't know, decades at a time. It's just the original intention, which I still don't even fully grok is like so far gone. It's literally just like wizards going crazy on their potions in a shop at this point. It's like nonsense analogy. Yeah. But so by the end, though, because of the pressure from the CIA and the White House, the proposal lost by a 59 to 27 margin. I cannot believe that. So now all you have to do is same thing today. All you do is call people socialists or

communists and everyone was like, oh, that's not me. I would go to America. It's like, oh, boy, here we go. And things would continue now from this point on and MK ultra undeterred for years all the way up to 1960 for three years. Everything that we talked about is now just happening as though we still don't know what it was exactly. We do not know what it was that everything that we talked about at the very least. Never mind what they were doing at black sites across the world outside

of the US borders. We touched upon what they were doing prior to MK ultra. We don't really know what they were doing afterward other than maybe continued experimentation. That is some big bad boo boo daddy right there. That is so bad. Yeah. But MK ultra started to bubble up to the surface of public thought in 1960, thanks to the Francis Powers incident in the spring of 1960, a man by the name of Francis Gary Powers crashed in the Ural Mountains in Soviet Russia. Powers

was flying. This is what's what's it called, right? Yep. Bridger Spies. Yeah. Yes, we're going to talk about Bridger Spies and the differences in the fact versus what was actually fiction. Powers was flying a secret U two spy plane and was struck down by a Soviet anti aircraft missile. He managed to take to eject from the destroyed plane carrying a token from Gottlieb and MK ultra and his colleagues. It was a silver dollar concealing a pin coated in poison. And this particular

token would be the precipice that I let everybody know in the US that MK ultra was doing some shit. The pins themselves were coated in a paralytic known as Sexyotoxin. I'm sorry, Saxotoxin. Sextoxin. Sextoxin, I wish that's what they're doing in San Francisco, but this was not not it. This was a substance extracted from infected shellfish. It is related to the algae that causes red tides and other waterborne waterborne infections. What it in highly concentrated doses such as the

one concealed in the silver dollar, it kills within seconds. These pins were given to all spy pilots, but contrary to the scene from the 2016 film Bridger Spies, they were not instructed to use them immediately upon discovery. Powers would say later because he didn't use it. He would later use the say later about the use of the pin, quote, it was more or less up to me. End quote powers, of course, opted not to use it. After the crash, the CIA began to concoct a cover story.

Presuming that powers was dead and the plane vaporized. The government insisted that a research plane studying high altitude weather patterns over Turkey had run into trouble. The pilot lost consciousness due to a lack of lack of oxygen and the plane had continued on autopilot drifting into Soviet airspace where it subsequently crashed and disappeared. What they didn't know is that there were still parts of the plane and they were discovered. Though the CIA and Eisenhower

considered the matter settled. Khrushchev had the last word in a speech to the Supreme Soviet a week after the crash. He revealed that large sections of the plane had survived. Powers was alive and the poison pin had been discovered. Eisenhower was forced then to admit that he had authorized his spokesman to lie about the U2 test flight and the crash in Soviet like in Soviet space. Okay, maybe somebody should be watching and make it sure I don't do dumb shit like this. But the

only reason why they admitted to any of this because they got caught. Exactly. That's exactly they never would have said anything if Russia wasn't like we about to blow you up dog. What's on blast? They're like all right, you got us. Powers being caught in Russia was then put on trial in Moscow. The prosecutors opening statement asserted quote, if the assignments received by powers had not been of a criminal nature, his masters

would not have supplied him with a lethal pin end quote. And in 1962, two years after the crash, powers was eventually traded for a Russian spy and he faced a burst of criticism for failing to use his suicide pin. But after the tensions eventually gold misguided, he was a yeah, after the tensions eventually cooled though, they eventually hailed him for his service and eventually gave him a medal. How long did he have to wait for the medal?

Is no I didn't write down what year his medal like did he get the medal like 1998 or some shit? Yeah, I guarantee it wasn't given him during the same administration. That's probably Google that you can probably Google that. That's just a wrap of power story though. We were going to stick in 1960 for a little bit because we were also at this time running many different things, continuing assassination attempts across the world. On August 18 1960, Alan Dulles and Richard Bissell

made an unscheduled trip to the White House with an urgent cable from contacts in the Congo. He said quote, embassy and station believe that Congo experiencing the the Congo is experiencing classic communist effort takeover government. Anti West forces rapidly increase increasing power in Congo and therefore maybe little time left end quote. Officials feared that Lumumba who is the one ruling the Prime Minister ruling over in there at the time was about to deliver his country

to the Soviets during the meeting and if an official note taker recalled Eisenhower turned to Dulles and said the following quote something to the effect that Lumumba should be eliminated. The note taker continues. There was a stunned silence for about 15 seconds and then the meeting continued. It's like a born identity return. Yep. That's really like a meeting, you know, you can see Eisenhower kind of pacing and just being like, that's it. We have to kill him. We can't have

Guatemala. We can't have Costa Rica or the Congo fall into Soviet hands. As soon as Bissell returned to his office from the meeting, he called Leopoldville and began brainstorming ways to remove remove Lumumba's obstacle. At first, a sniper was considered. But as the Prime Minister was living in seclusion and no reliable sniper was available, poison was then the next thing brought up and was given the green light. On September 26th, 1960, Gottlieb arrived in the Congolese

capital of Leopoldville with supplies to assassinate Prime Minister Patrice Lumumba Gottlieb's. Sorry, go ahead. I saw we just I'm just I'm just like bummed. I'm just like, God damn it. That's all. Would you like to know, gentlemen, what Gottlieb's poisonous kit contained? Yes, please. A hypodermic syringe with an ultra thin needle might sound familiar. The one's being tested at the pad, right? Or the pad sequel, the pad to a small jar of chlorine that could be mixed

with botulinum botulinum to render it ineffective in an emergency and quote accessory materials, including protective gloves and a face mask to be worn while conducting the operation. Gottlieb remained in Leopoldville for 10 days while he waited for his contact to find an agent then returned to Washington. The mission was passed on to a man by the name of Larry Devlin, CIA station chief with a cover job as a consular officer at the American Embassy. Gottlieb instructed

Devlin to get an inside man to use the hypodermic needle to inject the botulinum into something that would be put into Lumumba's mouth, whether that be food or toothbrush. Devlin dispatched a man to pierce Lumumba's inner circle and deposit the toxin Devlin's agent proved unable to pass the rings of security. So Devlin began to explore other options. He knew that the Belgian officials were just as determined to remove Lumumba as the Americans. And so he devised a plan on November

29th, 1960. Lumumba fled from Leopoldville to his enemy and his enemies ended up finding him. He spent six weeks in a remote jail and on the 17th of January 1961, a squad of six Congolese and two Belgian officers took Lumumba out of the jail into the jungle and shot him. Then he dissolved his body in acid like breaking bad. Yep. God damn it, dude. So that was how they ended up using it. They just kind of got together with his enemies and devised a plan to capture him, shoot him and melt

him down. MK Ultra, the head of MK Ultra is the one leading these these plans. By the way, in case people don't know why MK Ultra is involved here. So literally Gottlieb is coming up with this shit. Can we rewind a hot sec back to you, too? I had to do the research. I had to look it up. Oh, please. He received his awards in 1965. He got the intelligence star from the CIA. Okay, so three years. So not too bad. However, I found a thing that we didn't talk about that I

blown away by. So as we discussed the entire incident, the CIA was like, keep it quiet, go on the news. We got to lie about a bunch of stuff. Apparently the biggest lie they had to pull off, though, was the pilot and his wife at the time were going through some stuff and his wife was having an affair with another dude. And when this all went down, she had just broken her leg while dancing at a club with this guy. And so they had to bring her on TV and create a whole story. And so they drug

this woman. What? They drugged her. Specifically, they gave her all sorts of like downers, essentially. They gave her sedatives before speaking with any press. And she was supposed to repeat what they gave her to say as a devoted wife, even though she was like out and about when he was flying. And what happened was she broke her leg. So they had to make a whole story, a whole fiction that she was skiing at the time. So they had to like plant photos. She was skiing at the time,

broke her leg, even though none of that happened because they're like, all right, we have to cover all of this. So they made a whole fake story for his wife. Incredible. We have to blitz through some shit, brother. We have to. We're already an hour in and I'm not what I thought I would be. It's so mind blowing. The lengths that they did to cover this up, they literally like, all right, drug the wife and let's create a whole false identity and backstory for what she was

doing the last three weeks. Go and they did and they did. I know MK ultra was like ruling our foreign policy affairs for this time in a weird way in a lot of ways. It's nuts. We got to keep going though. So Lumumba got killed. So what happened to the unused poison? Well, Devlin later wrote that after Gottlieb handed it over to him, quote, my mind was racing. I realized that I could never assassinate Lumumba. It would have been murder. My plan was to stall the delay as long as

possible in the hope that Lumumba would wither would wither or fade away politically as a potential danger or that the Congolese would succeed in taking him prisoner, which they eventually did. He was just praying that he wasn't going to have to like needle this dude. Yep. Yep. He didn't want to do it to secure the poison. Devlin locked it inside his office safe where it would lose potency over time. Gottlieb however, testified later that he had disposed of the poison

before leaving Leppoldville, destroying its viability and then dumping it in the Congo River. So we have two varying stories on what actually happened with the poison. We don't know. Then MK ultra also was touching the attempted assassinations, the many attempted assassinations of Fidel Castro as Cuba became more and more of a concern for the US. It's not surprising that the minds that were in control of MK ultra would be brought in to try and deal

with him. Several ideas were considered to remove Castro from power. Some you might know, some you might not. Spray aerosol. One of the main ones was to spray air aerosolized LSD in the radio station where Castro made live speeches to millions of Cubans. Wasn't there something about an exploding cat or something? We'll get there. Yeah. We'll get there. This is this isn't just an Alex thing. This is a real Alec thing. What's an Alex thing? You know what I mean? A cool

thing? We're not gonna. I don't think we're gonna touch on the exploding cat. I have heard of the exploding cat. Oh, it's something. All right, you go. I'm the idea. The idea about the air aerosolized LSD was that Castro would become disoriented and incoherent during one of those speeches and would lose popular support. This idea was discarded as impractical and aerosolized LSD was never sent into Cuba. Their next idea was even further kind of interesting. They

presumed that Castro's popularity stemmed from his facial hair and that if he lost the beard, he would also lose his political favor and the love of his citizens. Oh, it wasn't a cat. It was his cigar. It was an exploding cigar. Yes. Yes. There is. We're gonna talk about cigars here in a minute. Yeah. First is his beard, my friend. The plot became to sprinkle thallium into Castro's boots, which which he left outside his hotel room often to be shined. This would cause his

beard to fall out, leaving him open to ridicule and political weakness. However, this plan's obvious weakness was that no one knew when Castro would be traveling and even if he stayed at a hotel that the CIA could penetrate, his security detail would likely not let just anyone handle Castro's boots. And so they aborted this plan as well. They're like if they keep getting foiled by like, oh, shit. Yeah, guards. Fuck. Yeah. Right. Yes. So frustrated that they can't destroy his political

career. They thought, well, maybe we'll just try killing him outright instead. The first idea was to poison Castro's cigars. The plot was to contaminate a box of 50 cigars and get them to an operations team who could then get them to Castro. This plan got so far as the cigars actually being tampered with and see in sealed in a box. Oh, man. They were passed on to a CIA office worker who locked them in a safe. No way was actually ever found to deliver them to Castro, however. And seven years

later, one tested cigar was still found to have a 94% potency to it. That's the Holy Grail of memorabilia right there. Yeah, to be very clear, this happened one year after Castro took power. Yep. This wasn't even a wait and let's see what this guy's about. They were like, no, nobody is we're killing him. I was like, whoa, get rid of him one year. We were like poison his food to sneakily kill him. This is just crazy. The next plot tickles the greater subject of Alex's next great

project. Another plot thought up under the Kennedy administration was to put a bomb in a rare seashell and plant it where Castro liked to scuba dive. This idea. This idea was rejected as impractical. Quote, none of the shells that might conceivably be found in the Caribbean Ocean was both spectacular enough to be sure of attracting attention and large enough to hold the needed amount of explosive. The midget submarine that would have had to be used to in play in placement of the shell was

too short an operating range for such an operation. It's so cockamamie. Every single one is cockamamie, dude. That's like hitman. Like that's like hitman rules. Oh my God, that is a hitman plot. Yes, it is scuba diving to replace the shell to attract the attention of I know he's going to dive in here and his favorite thing is the black and white spotted snail, but this one's going to be explosive. It's so good. Another plot under the Kennedys was to have lawyer James Donovan

negotiate for the release of American prisoners in Cuba. The CIA would give Donovan a tainted diving suit to present to Castro. This plan was foiled when the lawyer decided to give Castro a different diving suit. Quote, technical services division bought a diving suit dusted it inside with a fungus which would produce Madura foot a chronic skin disease and contaminated the breathing apparatus with tubercle tubercle bacillus. What? They were going to give him a skin disease

and tuberculosis. Yep. Yep. Yeah. From a diving suit. Literally the reason he didn't it didn't go through is because of Donovan was like, I'm going to give him a different. This is a stupid suit. Other possible options considered but didn't fully go through the like the planning phases were something highly toxic, such as a shelf, a shellfish poison to be administered with a pin, a bacterial material bacterial material in liquid form, bacterial treatment of a cigarette or cigar, or a

handkerchief treated with bacteria. So you know a lot of bacteria out there. Attempts to remove Castro from power through chemical means continued until the Johnson administration decided to proceed with political and economic means of destabilizing Castro's regime. Johnson concluded quote, we had been operating a goddamn murder ink in the Caribbean end quote and put an end to the assassination plots altogether. Do you do not have the one about his lover? No,

that's not on that's not part of give me two script. Two seconds. I know the one of the lever. I don't have to read this to y'all. It's crazy. Got to keep in mind there were assassination attempts that were happening that were not MK ultra driven. All right, this is this has to be though. So because you said they they were using botulism toxin, right? Did I say that they were using botulism toxin? All right, here you go. One of his lovers, Marita Lawrence in 1993 told

Vanity Fair that while she was Castro's lover in the late 50s, she was recruited by the CIA and tasked with assassinating the Cuban leader. She was given two botulism toxin pills to drop in Castro's drink. So her story goes. Just one would have killed him in 30 seconds, but she got cold feet. I knew the minute I saw the outline of Havana. I simply couldn't do it. She told Vanity Fair describing her emotions upon landing back in the Cuban capital. Even if she had wanted to kill him, she

botched the job. Apparently she stored the pills improperly and they became gunky and unusable. But Castro found out he leaned over, put a 45 in her hand and he was like, Oh, I do know the story. Yes, kill me. And she didn't do it. She couldn't do it. And he didn't even flinch and he said, you can't kill me. Nobody can kill me. What? Yes. That's crazy. Yes. That's okay. So it's important to remind you. The CIA was doing their own things and they were tapping MK ultra to come up with other

things as well. So that was a CIA plot, not an MK. I just want to know that the way the story ends is he's like, you can't kill me. Nobody can kill me. He then smiled, chewed on his cigar. I felt deflated. He was so sure of himself. He grabbed me and we made love out of here. I love it. She's like, well, I'm not going to have sex with Castro. Oh God. Okay. Anyway, so that ends that ends the MK ultra's plans to try and assassinate Castro. After the failures of the U2 fiasco, the

Bay of Pigs, a failure to predict the construction of the Berlin Wall, Kennedy fired Dulles from his position as CIA Direct. Now, I don't know. Now I don't know how far you are into the Kennedy thing, but this does tangent spiral off to one of the conspiracy theories that this is what ended up getting Kennedy like revenge plot one like a revenge because remember Dulles was this. Dulles was the one that basically said, okay, MK ultra, you can do whatever the fuck you want

and nobody's going to stop right now. He's being booted and he was like, what are you doing? You can't do that. He's being replaced by John McCown, who had been the chairman of the atomic energy commissions. McCown began his regime by immediately shaking up the team he deemed responsible for the CIA's recent failures. He organized an early retirement for Bissell, the deputy director for for plans who had presided presided over the Bay of Pigs. Richard Helms was promoted to

the newly vacated position. Helms reshuffled the technical services division, making Gottlieb deputy chief. And from here, Gottlieb moved more into the tinkering aspect of CIA spied him. He began to design. He began to design things that we we would associate today with spy gear and he from this point on moved was moved away from MK ultra. This makes a lot of sense because you mentioned Bay of Pigs like after that failure, they were like effort scrap like these ideas are

terrible and they fired everybody. Somebody like wait, what the fuck are we doing? Like what are we doing? This is crazy. Yep, it's exactly like 1960 begins the fall of MK ultra because MK ultra is no longer technically a thing by 1963 lasted about a decade. God damn, it's like the Beatles but like the opposite. Yeah, the opposite exactly. These horrible people who have crazy minds are still working in the government. Mind you, they're still doing shit. There is not

doing MK ultra anymore. In 1960 Gottlieb wrote another memo entitled scientific and technical problems in covert action operations, which contented a telling sentence or contained rather a telling sentence quote as of 1960 no effective knockout pill truth serum aphrodisiac or recruitment pill was known to exist immediately implicating that all of the research they had been doing at MK ultra had been completely and utterly fruitless. Yep.

God continued to direct MK ultra post 1960 the scale was greatly reduced and experiments with LSD had ceased though this did not prevent it from escaping into American society and creating the entire 1960s counterculture. No more funds were funneled into research into into research into electroshock and other extreme measures and Gottlieb had found out how to destroy the human mind. Gottlieb had had found out how to destroy the human mind but was never able to rewrite the blank slate

with a more useful personality. Literally all he learned was torture methods. That's all he ever figured out. Also he engineered his own cultural destruction by creating hippies. Yep. Yep. He did. They were the creators of their own monster kind of weird. That's kind of he keeps happening in society. At this point McCone still wasn't aware of MK ultra but 1961 saw all of that change and in an effort to professionalize MK ultra as he would call it he created a new directorate for

science and technology in order to take over the behavioral work technical technical services that had been already doing basically MK ultra afraid the the true extremes of the experiments would be discovered. Helms and Gottlieb persuaded McCone that MK ultra should be protected even from those with top secret clearance. McCone eventually grew suspicious of MK ultra and ordered the CIA's Inspector General J. S. Ehrman to find out what it was and what it did. Ehrman then

came to four direct conclusions that he presented research in the manipulation of human behavior is considered by many authorities in the medicine and related fields to be professionally unethical. Therefore the reputations of professional participants in the MK ultra program are are on occasion in jeopardy. Some MK ultra activities raise questions of legally legality implicit in the original charter. A final phase of the testing of MK ultra products places the rights

and interests of U. S. citizens in jeopardy. Public disclosure of some aspects of MK ultra activity could induce serious adverse reaction in the U. S. public opinion as well as stimulate offensive and defensive action in this field on the part of foreign intelligence services will get like really mad at us, bro. If they find out like breaking international laws dog weighing possible benefits of such testing against the risks of compromise and of resulting damage to CIA has

led the Inspector General to recommend termination of this phase of the MK ultra program. So those are the fourth. Yeah, basically these are the everything we already know. He'd kind of discovered on his look through it. Sure. Ehrman also suggested a series of steps to bring MK ultra under tighter control. Contracts should be audited. Gottlieb should file regular updates describing his work. Project managers should update their notably unnotably incomplete

files and a redefinition of the scope of MK ultra is now appropriate. So basically they had income like they would never finish their files because it was all shit that they didn't want people to find out. And rather than fight back surprisingly Gottlieb just accepted the report and even suggested that Ehrman was not critical enough of MK ultra and Gottlieb suggested that rather than redefining the scope of them K ultra let the program fade away entirely. Whether this

was an admission of defeat a protect a protective measure or both is really up to anyone speculation because that's what ended up happening with MK ultra. And in 1962 things continually winded down for the program. In 1962 though MK ultra's biggest victim came forward. Jolly West who had presided over some of MK ultra sub projects arrived at the Lincoln Park Zoo in Oklahoma City on an arrangement with the zoo director. He shot a dart filled with 300,000 micrograms of LSD into

the flank of a 7000 pound bull elephant named Tusko. Five minutes later Tusko quote trumpeted collapsed died fell heavily onto his right side defecated and went into status epilepticus West administered a cocktail of other drugs including depressants to offset the LSD but it did no good and Tusko was euthanized an hour and 40 minutes after being drugged. Oh my God. Thus what the fuck him the elephant becoming dubbed the biggest victim of MK ultra. That's so fucking

stupid. Yeah. He just went and poison an elephant one day because he was like you gotta think they're a year away from being closed down. Their budget has got to be getting low. They're like fuck what do we do? We still got drugs. We still gotta try and test things. I've always wanted to poison a fucking elephant. You know what genius. We're sending you to the zoo. Get back your shit. I was gonna do like get up and be like thank you for awakening me master. How may I destroy

your enemies for you? I don't know dude because we don't know we don't know what they're what their thought was a lot though they shot him with a lot 300,000 micrograms a lot that seems like and then other drugs after that 1963 then dawned in the kubark counterintelligence and Kedrigation manual was finally born and you know we relied on that and followed it to the tea for the rest of all human history was were instituted to stop us from doing anything like this ever and we never

created black sites or water boarded again. Exactly we were on the up and up the kubark the CIA cryptogram for itself counter intelligence interrogation manual was discovered in 1963 and contained many of the techniques and insights from MK Ultra. So again remember we don't have a lot of the documents from MK Ultra. Here's where we got a lot of what they at least figured out in 1983 a new version was introduced with similar instruction to the original designed for use by

military dominated governments in Latin America the human resources exploitation training manual as it was good Lord among the tent the tenants cribbed from MK Ultra are the following a man's sense of identity depends upon a continuity in his surroundings habits appearance actions relations with others etc. the tension permits the interrogator to cut through these links control of the source and the sources environment permits the interrogator to determine his

diet sleep pattern and other fundamentals manipulating these into into irregularities so that the subject becomes disoriented is very likely to create feelings of fear and helplessness. The chief ass effect of arrest and attention and particularly of solitary confinement is to deprive the subject of many or most of the sounds taste smells and tactile sensations to which he has grown accustomed to results produced only weeks after or months of imprisonment in an

ordinary cell can be duplicated in hours or days in a cell which has no light or artificial light which never varies which is soundproofed in which orders are eliminated etc. An environment still more subject to control such as a water tank or iron lung is even more effective drugs can be effective in overcoming resistance not dissolved by other techniques the principal core coercive technique are techniques are rest the tension the deprivation of sensory stimuli threats

and fear ability pain heightened suggestibility and hypnosis and drugs. The official effect of coercion is regression interrogate ease mature defenses crumble as it becomes more childlike the electric current should be known in advance so that transformers and other modifying devices will be on hand if needed the profound moral objection to applying duress past the point of irreversible psychological damage has been stated judging the validity of the of other

ethical arguments about coercion exceeds the scope of this like the opposite of the anarchist cookbook yep over the final months of 1963 MK ultra slowly aided away projects were ended and not renewed the safe houses were closed got him through himself fully into his work in the technical services division moving on from poisons right into spy gear and the MK ultra contractors also moved around Dr. Dewan Cameron wanted to cure schizophrenia a strangely

common justification for the experiments bankrolled by the CIA's MK ultra Cameron favored a method known as deep patterning defining the method is breaking up existent patterns of behavior both the normal and the schizophrenic by means of particularly intense electroshocks usually combined with a prolonged drug induced sleep these are the things that again we spoke about a little bit over and the details of which are just not all that important we don't need

to know the measurements of the drugs and whatnot and exactly how things went about another person Harris Isbell was a director of addiction research center in lexicon Kentucky and is bell was interested in the effects of LSD he had conducted truth serum experiments for the office of naval research in early 1953 and he sent a request to the CIA for quote a reasonably large quantity of the drug for a study of the mental and other pharmacological pharmacological

effects produced by the chronic administration of the diphyll amide of lethargic acid these names what now pardon God let me try that one more time diphyll amide of lethargic acid and what is that this is the this is what they were using to study pharmacological effects produced by chronic administration of it so you're just looking at what it did his request was granted psychological drug psychoactive drug it's like another fucking say this one like our study is to see what it

does to people yes that's exactly ultra that's the whole thing fancily worded let's see what this does wouldn't be cool if wouldn't be fucked up if Isbell's MK ultra contracts included testing whether LSD mescaline or other drugs could make users more susceptible hip to hypnosis perform plea preclinical pharmacology studies required to develop new psychochemicals and study psycho psycho oh my God this words is so hard you got psychotomimetic psychotomimetic set

psychotomimetic drugs a class that produces delusions and delirium it's basically a type of psychotic that does that is bill went on to write or co-author more than 100 scientific articles many of them reporting the results of his experiments in his or early articles he refers to his inmate patients as volunteers completely lying about who he was testing these things on the inmates were not told what sort of drug they would be fed or what its effects might be and to attract

them is bell offered rewards including doses of high-grade heroin to feed the habit that the inmates were ultimately there to break he literally were feeding drug addicts the drug of choice to get them to do their LSD experiments. It's just in prison just doesn't make sense that anybody ever needs to do this agreed. One article contained the experience of one volunteer who quote felt that he would die or would become permanently

insane after being given 180 micrograms of LSD he asked not to be dosed again and required quote considerable persuasion before he eventually agreed to continue taking the LSD one experiment consisted of five male black patients where he steadily increased the dosage of LSD up to 300 micrograms that's like almost half what they put in a fucking elephant I know God no they put 300,000 micrograms in an elephant. No.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying seems like a little overkill. Yeah, the elephant got 300,000 quote the mental effects of LSD 25 were very striking they included anxiety a feeling of unreality feelings of electric shocks on the skin tingling sensations choking marks changes in visual perception were reported and these included blurring of vision abnormal coloration of familiar objects like hands turning purple or green flickering shadows dancing dots of light and spinning

circles of color frequently inanimate objects were distorted and changed in size. One experiment became known as one of the most extreme in the history of LSD research Gottlieb wanted to test the effect of heavy doses over an extended period of time. So is bell selected seven patients isolated them and began the experiments and by patients. I mean inmates in the in the in the document he says quote I

have seven patients who have been taking the drug for 42 days what is bell reported that he was giving them a double triple in quadruple doses the experiment continued for a total of 77 days one patient Eddie flowers a 19 year old African-American drug addict recalls this experiment saying it was the worst shit I ever had flowers suffered through the hours of overwhelming humiliate hallucinations because he wanted the dose of heroin that is bell offered him at the end

as a reward. What the fuck were we doing? I don't know man. I don't know how to answer that question anymore. It's just everything that you say like surprises me each time that it's it's it's crazy 77 days on LSD continually doubling and tripling back in front of him the whole time. Yeah.

Harris is bill went on to then get the I mean you're not going to be surprised. I'm just you're not going to be surprised. But is that went on to be awarded the U.S. Public Health Services Meritorious Service Award and was praised by Attorney General Robert Kennedy as quote an outstanding investigator. He then left the Addiction Research Center in Lexington, Kentucky and went on to become a professor of medicine and

pharmacology at the University of Kentucky. In 1975 after MK ultra was discovered he was called to testify at a hearing conducted by subcommittees of the Senate Judiciary Committee and the Senate Committee on Labor and Public Welfare, which were investigating human use experimentation programs of the Department of Defense and Central Intelligence Agency, which is how we know exactly what was going on.

So he got to go live a normal life for about two decades for about 20 to 23 years after all of this. I just don't and then he just got brought it for cross examination or in whatnot, but he didn't get sent to prison or anything. I just don't get it. It's just I mean, I do get it. I live through this year, but it's just so crazy how how

does it make you feel to like know that the things kind of in a way the things we're going through now in 2020 are just things that have just never stopped happening. It's you know, it doesn't feel great. It's very much like the thing that brings people to this concept, right? Like to to this type of genre of it's probably why people are listening to this podcast is because slowly as you get older,

I think, or you know, as you get access to more information, you just start to realize that there's so much that you are a being naive about and that there must be some higher power at work or something like that. So you have to, you know, go down all these like really crazy rabbit holes until you find something that works out for you in some way. Yeah.

And then and then the only only to find out that the only reason these people are able to do what they did is because they stumbled into positions of power and we able to eliminate oversight. Yeah. This is why I write episodes about pie. I need to do aliens. Yeah, let's continue to admit that it's ridiculous and that

this real stuff is terrifying is what you're saying. Yeah, exactly. I just like high more than torture right now. I guess I like that that Mathis and aliens are adjacent to pie on this spectrum of delicious aliens are more satisfying real. Yeah. I want a delicious spectrum.

Aliens are delicious. Yeah. Ever stop wanting more, you know, I believe this and you may interpret as you as you may, but I'd eat an alien. I would too. I would eat my neighbor. I would think twice. I eat my neighbor.

Another man we're going to quickly talk cover as a man by the name of Kyle Pfeiffer in a lot of ways. He ate his neighbor. In a lot of ways, Pfeiffer was Gottlieb's pet prison doctor. If that gives you any ideas to the kind of man this guy was. He was the chairman of the Department of Pharmacology at Emory University. His subjects were inmate to the federal prison in Atlanta and

a juvenile detention center in Bordentown, New Jersey. He stuttered. He ended up studying the following things ways that various depressant drugs can shake a person's psyche by either altering his metabolism or producing sedation ways to test the presence of depressants, which affect the central nervous system, ways to screen and evaluate hallucinogenic materials of interest to technical services.

And now. James Whitey Bulger gets involved a little bit here. I can't even believe where we're at. Now you might you might a lot of people already probably know this, but if you don't Whitey Bulger was a Boston gangster who was later sent sentenced to life imprisonment for crimes including 11 murder pretty recently. Like like like Whitey Bulger is a guy we I want to cover a

hundred percent. He was a street level thug in his mid 20s and when he was sent to the Atlanta federal penitentiary for armed robbery and true hijack and truck hijacking only died like a year or two ago. Yeah, it wasn't that long ago. Inside he volunteered to participate in what he was told was a drug experiment aimed at finding out here for schizophrenia.

Whitey along with 19 other inmates were given LSD nearly every day for 15 months. Oh my God. Without being told what it was. In a rare report on an MK ultra experiment from the subject's perspective, he describes his experiences following in 1957 while a prisoner at the Atlanta penitentiary. I was recruited by Dr.

Carl Pfeiffer of Emory University to join a medical project that was researching the cure for schizophrenia. For our participation, we would receive three days of good time for each month on the project. We were injected with massive doses of LSD 25 in minutes. The drug would take over and about eight or nine men Dr. Pfeiffer and several men in suits who were not doctors would give us tests to see how we reacted eight convict eight

convicts in a panic and paranoid state. Total loss of appetite hallucinating the room would change shape hours of paranoia and feeling violent. We experienced horrible periods of living nightmares and even blood coming out of the walls guys turning into skeletons in front of me. I saw a camera turn into the head of a dog. I felt like I was going insane.

The men in suits would be in a room and hook me up to machines asking questions like did you kill anyone? Who would you kill anyone? Two men went psychotic. They all had symptoms of schizophrenia. They had to be pried loose from under the beds growling and barking and frothing at the mouth the fuck. They put them in a strip cell down the hall.

I never saw a herd of them again. Oh my God. They told us we were helping find a cure for schizophrenia. When it was all over, everyone would feel suicidal and depressed wrung out emotionally. Time would stand still. I tried to quit, but Dr. Pfeiffer would appeal to me.

Please, you're my best subject and we are so close to finding a cure was his line. Dude, what the fuck before he became the monster that he would become was experiments to put to 15 months of everyday daily LSD experience experiments. I don't know how you could even like say you try him fairly anymore. Bolger was a victim of MK ultra.

It's nuts. Is that in the movie? I don't know. I didn't see the movie either. What the fuck, Jesse? How are you? Are you ready to stay? I just had shaking.

I wrote it himself. Right. I don't know how like I don't know how brain functions after that. I don't think I got a good question. We could try it. Yeah, we could just try it out. I got stuff to do.

15 months. I had some to do. I mean, I'll take a 15 months. It's called LSD, baby. Let's do it. If you give me a 15 month break, I promise I'll go right back. I'll go right back to what I was doing a year ago. Yeah.

Yeah. Just let me pause everything 15 months. Let me just like take a LSD time. I'll walk out. Come out of change. I'll be fully dressed ready to go ready to go back into the world. Well, Pfeiffer became prominent for his research into

schizophrenia. But in 1971, he destroyed records of the LSD experiments he had conducted on prisoners in the Atlanta federal penitentiary. This did not save him from the 1975 Rockefeller report releasing the information that his experiments in the 50s were not designed for curing schizophrenia, but for the CIA and James Whitey bulger caught wind of this and was enraged

to learn that the project that had destroyed his life was not in the effort of helping him, but in the interest of the CIA. He told us a board in it. He was going to find Pfeiffer and kill him. Folger was not given the chance as the FBI captured him for other crimes before he could. Good Lord. One last person we're going to cover is a man by the name of

Harold Abramson. Harold Abramson, an LSD pioneer entered the MK Ultra. Well, over over. How do you say that? Why are you VR is the French word? It's like over over when he began shepherding Gottlieb's forays into self experimentation with LSD. What's his name?

Abramson Harold Abramson. In mid 1953 Gottlieb gifted Abramson eighty five thousand dollars or in today's money, eight hundred and thirty thousand dollars of MK ultra money for the con for the conduction of experiments with LSD and hallucinogenics along the following lines, disturbance of memory, discrediting by aberrant behavior, alteration of sex patterns, eliciting of information, suggestibility and creations of dependence.

All things we've already heard a few times over. Good Lord. You just see that they're just kind of just having a bunch of people do it all in different areas of the world. Disturbingly, Abramson was fascinated with the effects of mind-altering jugs on children. He closely monitored experiments, including one in which twelve pre-puberty boys were fell were fed a silo, silver, the silo

like magic mushrooms. Yep. And another in which 14 children by the ages of six and eleven were diagnosed with schizophrenia that were given one hundred micrograms of LSD each for six weeks straight. What the fuck during the 1960s and 70s, Abramson, the first American to experiment with LSD, organized several international conferences on LSD.

And in 1967, he published a book called the use of LSD and psychotherapy and alcoholism. He also worked in studies for which he was actually trained as he never studied psychiatry or pharmacology and co-founded the Journal of Asthma. He died in 1980. So we were just the U.S. government was directly funding child experiments in the U.S.

Just straight up. Now, of course, MK Ultra had a bunch of subprojects. We're going to go through a little bit of it, but we're kind of at the end here of MK Ultra. And so I'm pleased to inform you boys today is going to be the final episode of MK Ultra. We're going to wrap this sucker up in the next 15 to 20 minutes here.

We're just going to talk a little bit here about the subprojects and then we're going to talk about the final bit, which is how it all came out. Gottlieb was a meticulous individual and he organized each of the studies performed by MK Ultra into subprojects. Thanks to the later legal battles and inquiries, we actually have a list of them. There are 149 MK Ultra subprojects, many of which appear

to have some connection with research into behavioral modification unsurprisingly, and as well as drug acquisition testing or administering drugs serotypically serotypically Sarah. Serotypically. Thank you. Yeah. I just got a lot of words happening today and I'm I'm losing

it, dude. It's been a long one. They belong to 15 different categories research into the effects of behavioral drugs and alcohol. 17 subprojects probably not involving human testing, but we can't be sure 14 subprojects definitely not involving tests on human volunteers. 19 subprojects probably including tests on human

volunteers, but while not known, some of these subprojects may have included tests on unwitting subjects as well. Six subprojects involving tests on unwitting subjects. Also research in hypnosis included eight subprojects including sub in us, including two involving hypnosis and drug combinations, acquisition of chemical drugs and seven projects involved in the acquisition of them. Basically the way this all breaks down is that every single

aspect of MK Ultra had a subproject attached to it. There was not a single point in MK Ultra that was not being watched over by Gottlieb entirely. He was just he built all this stuff. He had polygraph research happening as well. Studies of human behavior, sleep research and behavioral changes during psychotherapy, library searches and attendance at seminars and international conferences on behavioral

modification and so on. So it's not all just drug stuff. He was doing just other normal sleep studies as well, but it was all under the MK Ultra umbrella umbrella. I'm sure there's just no I'm sure there's just no boundary. It's just like by pure chance. Sometimes it's not human torture, but like I don't think he was like, I'm just going to do some normal ones and some

dark ones. Yep. The last bits of the last ones we'll talk about here. The one that are kind of important. There was subprojects involving funding support for unspecified activities connected with the Army's special operations division at Fort Detrick. The medical under CIA project Naomi, the Army assisting

CIA and developing testing and maintaining biological agents and delivery systems for for use against humans as well as against animals and crops. There was single subprojects in such areas as effects of electroshock harassment techniques for offensive use analysis of extrasensory perception gas propelled sprays and aerosols and four subprojects involving crop and material sabotage.

One or two subprojects on each of the following blood grouping research controlling the activities of animals, energy storage and transfer in organic systems and stimulus in response and stimulus in response and biological systems and finally three subprojects canceled before any work was done on them having to do with laboratory drug screening research on brain concussion and research on biologically active materials to be tested through

the skin on human volunteers. I am officially desensitized to the horrors of this violence. Yeah, man, that's I just that's a few of them. There's like a bunch that we're not going to touch. Now we're just going to talk about how it all came out. The discovery happened in 1970 under the Nixon administration. Nixon feared the outbreak of a global pandemic and ordered all government agencies to destroy their stores of

bio weapons and chemical toxins. Army scientists complied, but unsurprisingly Gottlieb hesitated. He asked the chief of his chemical divisions, Nathan Gordon for an inventory of CIA stocks. Gordon reported the medicine chest at Fort Detrick contained 10 biological agents that could cause diseases, including smallpox tuberculosis equine encephalitis and anthrax as

well as six organic toxins, including snake venom and paralytic shellfish poison. Gordon and Gottlieb were both disturbed at the prospect of losing all their work. So Gordon suggested that they secretly move all of their poisons from Fort Detrick. Gordon went so far as to find a research center in Maryland that would be willing to house the materials for $75,000

a year. Gordon and Gottlieb met with Helms and Tom Carminesis, the CIA's deputy for plans a few days later, and it was agreed that the agency had no realistic option other than to follow the president's orders and destroy the stock, but not for a lack of trying. Everything began to trouble. Everything began to crumble.

However, on June 17th, 1972, with, of course, nothing other than the Watergate incident. What? A security guard at the White House. Sorry, a security guard at the Watergate complex in Washington noticed a piece of tape over a door lock at the office of the Democratic National Committee. He called the police and several intruders were arrested.

Why did he do that? The intruders turned out to have connections to the White House in the CIA. Gottlieb Technical Services Division had prepared false identity papers for two of them. Howard. My God. G. Gordon Liddy.

Yep. And had provided a hunt with implements of espionage, including a speech alteration device, a camera concealed in a tobacco pouch and a wig and glasses disguise. Nixon saw help from the CIA disguise. Yeah, it's like a ground floor. That's exactly what I'm picturing. Nixon sought help from the CIA to contain the fallout from

the Watergate break in. Helms refused to create a cover story that would exhalpate the White House. In response on February 1st, 1973, Nixon fired him. With that Gottlieb's longtime protector was now gone. As Helms was packing to leave, he summoned Gottlieb for a fair well. The talk turned to MK Ultra and they knew that no one could

find out what they had done. In one of the last acts as director of the CIA, Helms ordered the destruction of all MK Ultra records. And on January 30th, 1973, seven boxes of documents were shredded. God damn it. Around the same time Gottlieb told the secretary to open his office safe, remove files marked MK Ultra or secret

sensitive and destroy them. She did exactly as she was told. Helms replacement James Schnell's Schlesinger arrived and was determined to make changes. Gottlieb became his first target. Gottlieb's biggest project was MK Ultra and it was no longer well regarded. He was Helms protege and the Helms era was now officially

over. His reputation was tainted by his involvement with the Watergate burglars. So Schlesinger changed the name of the technical services division to the office of technical services and Gottlieb remained chief, but it was clear the end was near. And in April, Schlesinger is called John McMahon and told McMahon to come and run OTS.

And on May 9th, 1973, he sent out a cable to case officers all over the world. It said the following. I am determined that the law shall be respected. I am taking several actions to compliment this objective. I have ordered all the senior operating officials of this agency to report to me immediately on any activity going on or that may have gone on in the past, which might

be considered to be outside the legislative charter of this agency. I hereby direct every person presently employed by the CIA to report to me on any such activities of which he has knowledge. I invite all ex-employees to do the same. Anyone who has such information should should call my secretary and say that he wishes to talk to me about activities outside

the CIA's charter. Two days later, Nixon announced he was moving Schlesinger to a new job as Secretary of Defense and replaced him with career officer William Colby. Soon after he took office, Colby was given a thick loose leaf book that would forever change the CIA. Colby died in a weird way too though. Yeah.

The 693 page closed type document where the responses to Schlesinger's cable to report illegal activities within the CIA. While there were many references to what MK Ultra was doing, Gottlieb's name only appeared one time in the 693 page document. It said the possible as Gottlieb was good at what he did. In January 1973, Dr. Sydney Gottlieb advising that he was acting on instructions from DCI Richard Helms or to the

destruction of all records associated with drug research and testing. On the 31st January 1973, seven boxes of progressive reports from 1953 to 1967 were recalled from the archives and destroyed. In addition, 25 copies of a booklet entitled LSD 25 some unsychedelic implications were destroyed. This document came to be known as the CIA family jewels and it was agreed that it should remain a secret.

For the next year, the Watergate scandal absorbed the American consciousness and led to Nixon's resignation on August 9th, 1974 in his replacement with Gerald Ford. We don't know what this family is. What we do we do that that report with all the information that family jewels. Okay, that is the family jewels. That's what they just named it that several months later.

Colby was contacted by investigative reporter Seymour Hirsch, who had stumbled onto one of the family jewels, a project known as MH chaos. MH was the prefix used for projects with worldwide reach. MK was specifically sounds like a Square Enix game. MH chaos was the project under which the CIA had compiled dossiers on thousands of American journalists and anti-war activists. So scary.

Horrifying worldwide. Worldwide. That is Colby did not deny the story. Though the story that eventually made it to the New York Times made it no mention of the drug experiments of MK ultra. It led to the series of investigations that blew open MK ultra. The revelation of MK MH chaos led to Congress to propose

establishing a special committee to investigate illegal acts by the CIA, the first outside force since Mike Manfield's attempt in 1950 to threaten the agency's secrecy. Ford opposed as what as was senior CIA officers, but this political climate had changed and Americans were clamoring for transparency with the government. Ford decided to preempt Congress by announcing the formation of his own CIA commission.

He wanted a bland report that would find some mischief, but nothing grand. He hoped this would, uh, this he hoped that this would pacify Congress, but more importantly, calm the public. How does he not see the implications of that? Dude, that question has been asked every episode of this series and every day in my life so far. Yeah.

To ensure a forgiving report, Ford appointed his vice president Nelson Rockefeller as chairman. Hours after the announcement, Ford contacted Helms and said that he was going to give the commission a very narrow mandate and warn its members that it would, uh, that it would be, uh, that it would tragic be tragic to exceed it. Quote, it would be a shame if the public uproar forced us to go beyond and to damage the integrity of the CIA.

I automatically assume what you did was right unless proven otherwise. Sounds like a recent phone call I heard today. Yeah. Isn't it? Isn't it? That's crazy. Pression of the time that you're currently in.

Perfect phone call. Very bizarre. It would be tragic if you'd been tragic. Yeah. It might be a crime. I don't know. Some people say it was a few-star president, right? Jesse?

Yeah. Wow. This is so crazy. It's, it's funny to me that people speak the exact same way and never like, I'm not saying you're going to get in trouble, but it would be an awful shame. I mean, it's literally the example of like, you have to be taught history or be doomed to repeat.

Yeah, it's basically an American sedition by now. I mean, tradition by now. Hey, oh, that's good stuff. The Rockefeller Commission officially known as the President's Commission on CIA activities within the United States, appropriately, boringly named so people wouldn't pay attention to it, was issued on June 11th, 1975, and was a mild circumstances would allow.

It concluded that the CIA had carried out plainly unlawful operations, but these are the examples they gave spying on protest groups, tapping phones, committing burglaries, and opening mail. Stories that assassination plots against foreign leaders had to begin to circulate in Washington, but the commission report said that that that time did not permit for a full investigation.

Oh my God. That is what they said in Washington. They said they needed to, they couldn't put ladies in Assassin's Creed or whatever. Yeah, right. It does. It does not permit such an impossible endeavor. That's really the same, though.

It really is ridiculous. It is. It's nuts. The report did not mention NK Ultra by name, but it did say that the CIA had run a project to test potentially dangerous drugs on unsuspecting United States. It rhymed with Bembe Bultra. Oh, God.

I just can't believe it. That's you can say that and people don't immediately react like what? Yeah. It's really a lot of it. I wonder how much of it is the purposeful bland language that they use. You know what I mean?

That is 100% it. That is 100% it. They use words that like, you know, people won't don't see very often. It's just like too much. And let's be clear. We are still in the country where six hours before a vote supposed to be scheduled, they dropped like a 500 page bill

and they're like, read up. Oh, you didn't have time. Okay. We're voting like that's we. That's how we roll. You just like, yeah. It is awful. Another that involves is the they did mention it by saying

there was a project potentially to test potentially dangerous drugs and unsuspecting United States citizens. Another that involved giving drugs to prison inmates and a third in which unsuspecting volunteers were given LSD at two secret sites. One paragraph dealt with the Frank Olson incident, though not by name directly. One paragraph.

Yeah. One. It's a name like, but yeah, do it flew out of a window. It's it's God the Rockefeller's committee. Mild report did not satisfy critics really formed yet. No shit. So the Senate formed the select committee to study governmental operations with respect to intelligence age activities.

That was the name of the full name of the committee. This was headed by Frank Church and it became known as the Church Commission. The Church Commission's investigators found several documents mentioning plots to assassinate foreign leaders. Most of the names of the CIA agents were redacted, but one remained available. Sydney Gottlieb.

Finally, that mother fucker. Right. The Church Committee investigators asked the CIA for permission to interview Gottlieb, but were told that he had retired and left the States. The investigators insisted and the CIA's legal office relented and found Gottlieb. After Gottlieb was removed from his government position, he and

his wife spent time traveling the world after abandoning all their material. Belonging literally after he was done doing the spy thing. They dropped all their material belongings and started traveling. Achieve the light meant and like vanished into happiness for the rest of his life. He literally got to do everything he ever wanted by

torturing people and now he's an elephant. Hilariously, they actually ended up volunteering in a hospital in Uttar Pradesh, India, where Margaret Gottlieb became very ill. While she was convalescing in a hospital, Sydney was called back to the US to deal with building scandals. Gottlieb retained Terry Lenznar on the advice of some former colleagues that saw the lawyer.

Lenzner cautioned that they should ask for immunity for from prosecution before proceeding with the committee's questions and Lenzner outlined their legal challenges. The Church Committee was investigating assassination plots in which Gottlieb had been involved. In New York, the district attorney was looking into Frank Olson's death and Gottlieb no longer wielded power at the CIA and had few remaining friends there.

So Gottlieb was kind of just in a bad spot. He agreed to testify to the committee, but not without immunity. Thus began a series of public hearings probing into all manner of unlawful or improper conduct by the CIA. At the first hearing, Colby revealed the existence of MK Naomi, the partnership between the CIA and the Army Special Operations Division at Ford Detrick.

Colby produced a summary of its work written in 1967 when Gottlieb was running the technical service division. It said that MK Naomi had two purposes, to stockpile severely incapacitating lethal materials for specific use within the, for specific use of TSD and to maintain an operational readiness, special and unique items for the dissemination of chemical and biological materials. Not wanting to fight Lensner on the subject, the committee

gave Gottlieb immunity and on October 7th, 1975, Gottlieb began his testimony and it came to roughly 40 hours in total. And thus it became finally public knowledge, at least starting to just the idea of the concept that existed. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Gottlieb gave his testimony under the assumed name Joseph

Scheider to protect his identity. Why? Fuck his identity. I sent it rules require the church committee sealed the testimony for 50 years, which means it could be declassified in five. However, committee reports quoted passages. Joseph Scheider Gottlieb testified that he had two or

three conversations with Richard Bissell in 1960 about the agency's capacity to assassinate foreign leaders. One report says, Scheider informed Bissell that the CIA had access to lethal or potentially lethal biological materials that could be used in this manner. After the meeting, Scheider Gottlieb Scheider also I just gonna say Gottlieb from now on Gottlieb reviewed a list of the biologic materials available at the Army's chemical core

installation of Ford Dietrich, Maryland, which would produce diseases that would either kill the individual or incapacitate him so severely that he would be out of action. Gottlieb selected one material from the list, which was supposed to produce a disease that was indigenous to that area and that could be fatal. The Congo station officer testified that he received rubber gloves, a mask and a syringe along with lethal

biological materials from Gottlieb who also instructed him on their use. Often during the hearing when faced with questions, he'd rather not answer Gottlieb pleaded bad memory to avoiding answering. The sound familiar, by the way, to a recent public hearings in the past couple years. I don't know what you're talking about.

I don't recall. One writer observed that Gottlieb, quote, claimed to have forgotten virtually everything he had spent the last twenty five years. There's a thing I kind of believe him based on how many fucking drugs he was doing. I mean, fair enough. But unfortunately, Gottlieb escaped the hearing without too

much damage and the New York police investigation on Alson's death proved inconclusive. Their coverup job was excellent. Then the Department of Justice became involved due to the Washington Post article reporting on Gottlieb's destruction of the MK ultra records. The DOJ began to investigate as it was classified under destruction of government property.

Unfortunately, as Gottlieb was in the Senate testimony and had already secured immunity, nothing could be done. The FBI attempted to secure Gottlieb for testimony once he had finished his Senate testimony to which Lesnar was originally amenable, but he rescinded the offer at the conclusion of the Senate testimony over a 15 month period. The church committee held 126 public hearings. These are the ones that people are very familiar with interviewed

800 witnesses and reviewed more than 100,000 documents. It focused on the more egregious of the accusation such as domestic spying and international assassination plots. In its final report, the church committee concluded intelligence agencies have undermined the constitutional rights of citizens. There is no inherent constitutional authority for the president or any intelligence agency to violate the law. The report also included a summary of what it had discovered

of the CIA's mind control programs, including the earliest of the CIA's major programs involving the use of chemical and biological agents, Project Bluebird, investigating the possibilities of control of an individual by application of special interrogation techniques. In August 1951, the project was renamed Artichoke as we know. MK ultra was the principal CIA program involved involving said research and because MK ultra records were destroyed,

it is impossible to reconstruct the operational use of MK ultra materials by the CIA overseas. Overall, as we wrap up gentlemen, and while I kind of just end this all by saying, we know kind of all the public things and Gottlieb literally got away with it all. We will never ever know what information the CIA took from MK ultra and still uses to this day. All of that research was properly destroyed and it wasn't

until another 15 years after it shut down that it became known within our government and then known publicly. That is where I'm just going to put a pin on MK ultra and call this series fucking complete. That's why you should pay attention to what the government is doing guys. That's why you should pay attention. If you want to get into like the the the the the whole hearing

like the hearing itself is huge amount of information. There's you can watch a lot of those public hearings and to hear some of the very personal experiences of some of these victims is heart wrenching. So if you do plan on going to listen to it, just be it's kind of hard. It's a little harsh. It's it's really really hard to people on drugs in the 50s

instead. It's much more entertaining. And I do want to put out as well just kind of like, you know, thoughts to those there were so many, you know, you would call them lesser dead more or less, but unnamed victims of Pfeiffer and all these other doctors that died just like I thought to those people who the countless people who died under these programs under our watch like that's a horrendous mass

murdering tragedy. And it's just important when listening to this and I know we we laugh a lot and we make a lot of jokes, but people died and it's important that this shit is known. I hope it was entertaining for everybody as well. Obviously, I'm glad to be done with MK ultra. It was a hell of a project. Thank you to the members of Patreon because this project

would have still been in the works if we weren't able to pay and bring on Diana to help. This is she gave stuff to give you an idea. My each of my scripts. I have a total now of about 70 pages of 60 pages of script of scripting and Diana's outline. Her own outline was over 80 pages for this thing. Be this was an enormous undertaking.

It took about two to three months of us reading and putting this together. So thank you is not a woe was me with so much work. We loved it. It was so great. I'm so glad I got to have a partner by my side to help me with it because you guys allow us to do this. So thank you.

Hell, yeah. Jesse and Alex. How are you feeling after this journey? It's a mix. I mean, yeah, look, pay attention to what they do. Not what they say. Yeah, that's how you work with government. Do your research.

I hope that paid attention. I hope the people that this kind of open night. There's a lot of people out there who's like, oh my God, I had no idea. That's all the lesson you take away. They can say the platitudes all they want. But as we've made clear, they're going to lie until they're caught.

So yeah, that's it. I'm done. We're going off to record our mini and then it's going to go up on Patreon or word away. Thank you guys so much for the support. Thank you for the reviews, the five star reviews, picking up merch, Patreon support or just binging the podcast. We love you all.

We'll be back next week with something entirely different, much lighter and in the vein of an Alex episode. I think I'm going to talk about the Oh, Mua Mua on the mini so yes. So if you want to come sign up for that, go check it out. Or if you're already signed up, just go and listen to it. We'll be there. Thank you guys.

We'll see you over there. And for all of you who are just a little here for the main episodes, we will see you next week. Thank you for listening. Goodbye, everybody. Anyway, me and my wife were sitting outside indulging on our porch one night, enjoying ourselves. I needed to go to the bathroom.

So I stepped back inside and after a few moments, I hear my wife go, holy shit, get out here. So I quickly dash back outside. She's looking up at the sky and I look up to and there's a perfect line of dozen lights traveling across the sky. Yeah. Yeah.