Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 9 - Tommy Pitera Part 3 - An Ending Fit For Film

Episode Date: July 8, 2018

Part 3 of the Tommy Pitera story continues right here! Mickey Mouse has never been so scary! And how will it all end?! Soundcloud - https://soundcloud.com/chilluminatipo... Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - http://www.youtube.com/user/Thenation... Art Commissioned by - mollyheadycarroll.com

Bring the flavor to any fiesta with new modelo chelada sandia picante, a mix of authentic Mexican beer, vibrant watermelon flavor, and a hint of chile. Modelo chelada sandia picante, fight for bold flavors, fight for authenticity. Drink responsibly, modelo chelada flavored beers imported by Crown & Ports Chicago Illinois. Let's do this. It's finally time, gentlemen. Welcome to the Chiluminati Podcast Episode 9, Tommy Patera Part 3. It's the end. The story of Tommy Patera, the Mickey Mouse murderer, whatever you want to call him, is a... The Mickey Mouse murderer? It's time to finally... Tommy, I ain't calling you that. I ain't calling you that. You are a strong man. You are a strong individual who is very good murdering, and I don't want to be part of it.

Honestly, High Voice is the new low voice. Yeah, I'm down. Whatever makes you feel better, Tommy, and not come after us if you for some reason break out of jail. Though, at this point in time, you're probably in your 50s or 60s, I think. So, no, yeah, you can still whoop me. We said Mickey Mouse because Mickey Mouse is so successful. And dominant in the marketplace. Yes, huge brand. No one has such a control or grip over the childhood marketplace.

Murders, very own Pikachu. Before we get going, for the viewers, if you haven't, this is part three of a three-part series, please do yourself a favor. Go watch the first two episodes. This is like a kung fu movie trilogy. Yeah, it's great. It's been a wild ride following Tommy through his life. To watch the monster he became and the things that he did, so go ahead and check that out. Also, as always, a big thank you to everybody. The True Crime series has done incredibly well. People, it's one of the most watched or listened to series that we've done right from the start. So thank you so much for that, and we appreciate it.

Hell yeah. So, when we dive in, let's try and remember what happened last episode. If you don't remember, let me refresh your memory. Oh boy. Tommy came across two people that would be, at the end of it all, imperative to his downfall. Oh, that's right! The lady that he shacked up with, who was in his wife, who was on Super Drugs. And then the dude who he said, hey, come murder some people with me.

And that dude started turning to drugs. And then there was the girl in the middle between those two. I'm ready. I'm ready for it all. This is so exciting. Again, go back and listen. But there is Celeste, which is Tommy's girlfriend, the one that he loved, who he worshiped. But she was a massive drug user, and he could never get her off of drugs. So he blamed everybody but her, and he decided to basically pin Celeste's problem on her best friend, Phyllis, who was a huge drug addict as well.

He warned her, told her to stay away from her, and even gave her kind of like a final, like, this could get dangerous if you don't do what I tell you to kind of speech. And he also met Frank Gange. Frank was kind of a guy he brought in close. He kind of felt a weird kinship with him, tried to get him to kill somebody. Frank never went through with it. Frank then watched Tommy do the killing, and then dismember the body, and he helped bury him. Why do murderers always do this shit? Well, we'll actually talk a little bit about why he forced somebody to do it, and why he believed in his mind it was important. But then Frank started drinking and becoming kind of, you know, trying to wash away his sorrows and his trauma with alcohol and drugs,

and then shortly after that murder that he witnessed, he went and did a ton of cocaine with Phyllis, slept with her on and off for a few days, and started falling for Phyllis, which would also be kind of a linchpin to the falling of our dear man, Tommy. I knew it was going to have to do with sex and drugs. That's how everyone gets got. That's how everyone gets got. So, we'll dive right in. Frank, in Tommy's mind at this point, because Frank had seen the murder and helped him drive the body out and all that other stuff, was, at least in Tommy's mind now, equally as culpable as himself to the murder. You know how crazy that sounds, right? Right, of course.

See, dragging someone along to see a murder, actually to help commit a murder, and then be like, I definitely can trust this person. I blame you for this. That is way number one to have yourself turned on. Oh, Tommy. Oh, Tommy. Tommy, Frank had seen Tommy now murder, dismember, and he even helped him drive the body out to bury it in the bird sanctuary on Staten Island that had become Tommy's own personal graveyard. He felt that he could now trust Frank, that if he sought to bring down Tommy, he'd also have to bring himself down in the process, and he would never want to do that. Nobody would want to bring themselves down in the world of luxury and crime. So, in Tommy's mind, Frank on some level was trustworthy.

But Frank had been traumatized, where what he'd seen how Tommy had methodically dismembered a body that had been alive no shorter than 30 minutes prior, like he was a butcher taking care of meat to be sold, had settled so deeply into Frank's core that he could not shake it. He couldn't sleep, he could barely eat, and Tommy was always just right around the corner in Frank's mind. So, Frank already being a drug user dove deeper into cocaine to help him forget. Cocaine and sex with the woman who Tommy desperately wanted to keep away from his girl Celeste. Phyllis Birdie. And if you missed who Phyllis Birdie is, again, second episode, go watch it. Basically, a woman born and raised in the world of mafia dumb had a thick Brooklyn accent, but on the outside appeared dainty and curvy with the big 80s hair and big tits, that kind of thing.

In case you forgot, Phyllis is the one that Tommy had to ward away from Celeste. He blamed Phyllis for Celeste's drug problem and threatened in the most polite way possible to stay away from his girl. But Frank needed an escape, and he knew that Phyllis was a quote-unquote co-core. Yeah, I guess she's a co-core, so, you know. Now, something that's important, actually, is something to know about Frank, and something that kind of skipped mostly and will mostly skip while talking about it, but Frank also had a common law wife and a kid. Like, just like Tommy, all these mob guys. Jesus.

So, he spent a few days with her, doing coke and fucking on and off constantly, trying to help himself forget, or at the very least, numb the trauma of what he'd seen. And it worked for the most part. Why would he do this with... This is like the worst possible person he could have chose to do this with. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Well, Celeste would have been maybe the worst.

I feel like in this world, because as we learned, Celeste and Phyllis, they're in. Like, they're part of the mob lifestyle. If you watched, oh my god, like Sopranos or anything like that, the women who were in this world, that was the ones you turned to for stuff like this. I guess. So, it makes sense why you would do it, because they, you know, they can understand, question mark. I guess he just watched this man chop this man up in a bathtub, and he was like, you know what, I'm gonna have sex with his most hated friend.

Yeah. That's what happened. Yeah, that's exactly what happened. And much to Tommy's dismay, those warnings that he had given Phyllis actually had fallen upon deaf ears. Most importantly, he was focusing on the wrong person. Tommy had a giant weakness in the form of Celeste. We already knew that. In his eyes, her drug usage and her problems were everyone else's fault.

Celeste was a victim in Tommy's eyes, who refused to stay away from those who made her a victim, most notably Phyllis. And even though he had told Phyllis to stay away from, even though he had told Phyllis to stay away from his girl over and over again, he had heard over and over again that Celeste was constantly seen out partying with Phyllis, doing drugs, partying and losing herself to the nightlife, that those warnings that he had given Phyllis were completely and utterly ignored. And each time Tommy heard it, it infuriated him even more so. And a few days after the events that Frank had with Phyllis, he would reach out to Frank for them to meet. When Frank arrived at that Tommy's apartment, Tommy was clearly upset. He was pacing back and forth while talking about how Phyllis refused to listen.

That he had warned her over and over again. This is not good behavior. This is the scariest thing that could happen. Because now he's venting to Frank. He's venting to Frank after how he had just spent a couple nights with Phyllis about how Phyllis is the problem. Phyllis is the problem and he was pissed. He was visibly angry about the whole thing and that Phyllis wouldn't listen. That he had warned her constantly and yet Celeste and Phyllis kept hanging out.

Frank knew that Tommy's solution to everything at this point was murder. So Frank offered to go talk to Phyllis for him. Maybe if she heard it from a different person with a different approach and a different angle, that Phyllis would listen and agree. And Tommy agreed. Tommy gave Frank that chance. But Frank knew better. Deep down, he really knew better.

He knew Celeste was a drug addict and no matter what she would be out, if not with Phyllis then with somebody else doing cocaine and heroin and partying. But he had grown very, very fond of Phyllis and this was his attempt to save her, not to save Celeste. This was such a dumb thing. Okay. Yeah. He basically was falling for her. Even though he had a common law wife and child, he was very much falling for Phyllis.

He was falling for that co-core. Yeah. And in the words and in the research I did, he basically Phyllis had shown him sexual deviancy that he had never experienced before. And he very much enjoyed that. This is a tale as old as time right here. Yeah. This makes perfect sense to me.

She had a knowledge of that kind of lifestyle that Frank did not have by any stretch. So the sex he was having with Phyllis was the best sex that Frank had ever had in his entire fucking life. So he kind of was getting swept up in her. Man. So yeah. So shortly after Frank called Phyllis and told her to meet her at a bar near his house. There they had a conversation. Frank warned her about Tommy again.

But this time more appealing to her sense of safety than a threat. That Tommy had eyes everywhere and that people were telling him that Celeste was still hanging out with Phyllis. But Phyllis told Frank that she didn't give Celeste drugs. She had tons of other people that she got the drugs from that Celeste didn't need Phyllis for the drugs. That they were just friends and that she wasn't going to stop hanging out with her good friend just because her boyfriend was being possessive. Thing is Phyllis was being truthful. Of course she was. But it didn't mean that Tommy gave a shit.

Frank continued fruitlessly trying to convince her to stop. Even asking her to maybe leave town for a little while and let Tommy cool off just for her own safety. But Phyllis laughed it off. In her eyes what was Tommy going to do? She lived the mafia lifestyle. Was he really going to kill her just because his girlfriend wouldn't listen to him? Yes. What about the fucking story where he sat there and watched this dude chop a warm man's body up in a bathtub?

Well to be fair the one weird nuance that Tommy had is that he never killed women and he was always very respectful towards women. But the rule was unless they had it coming. I mean we'll get to that here momentarily. So yeah they were just friends in Phyllis's eyes and she wasn't doing anything wrong and Frank continued trying to no avail. She laughed at it off. What was Tommy going to do? That she wasn't doing anything wrong. And after some more time drinking and failing convincer Phyllis and Frank went back to her place where they did a few lines of coke and fucked on and off.

That's not even like a good relationship. It's like Frank Phyllis. Y'all don't even have the means for true love right there. He's like do that thing baby. The thing you do with your mouth. The thing you do with your mouth. He's like just snorting cocaine. I love this.

I feel like the two of them. I feel like these two StarCross lovers are doomed for failure. I wonder. StarCross. It's fascinating too because you know in Frank's mind he knows what Tommy wants to do and if she doesn't leave she's gonna die. Hey Mathis? Cook Hame's a hell of a drug. I guess so.

It makes people do dumb stuff and this is right up there with it. So like it's weird because like Frank knows like he might be fucking somebody who could be dead very, very, very shortly. He could be dead very, very shortly. True. I think Frank had to have known. I'm assuming that Phyllis gets murdered. Frank didn't know. Frank 100% knew.

He knew that while he was even having sex with her. You know what this reminds me of? Alex will get this. It reminds me of Dr. Afra in Star Wars. Yeah. So Star Wars, the new canon stuff for people who are curious and the new stories that are coming out related to the new movies and all that. There's a character named Dr. Afra and Dr. Afra is like a bounty hunter. She's like Indiana Jones but she works for Vader.

Yeah. Vader hires her on and is like look I need you to help me do some stuff but it has to be under the radar. I don't want the Emperor to know. But the thing is their relationship is literally Darth Vader, the guy who kills on a whim who is an intergalactic badass, and Dr. Afra who accepts the fact that she, this is where she's at now and at any given moment Vader could just kill her because. It's just predicated on the fact that she's eventually going to get killed by Vader. So I wonder if that's the same thing. Yeah.

Yeah, I feel like that might be, he knows it's gonna happen so maybe he's just doing everything he can to enjoy her presence while it lasts. That's so fucked up. He could have just not talked to her. Yeah, or even so like he could have talked to her but not went back and fucked her for like however long. Yeah, exactly. But that's like, I feel, I feel for Frank because. I mean so do I. How do you, if you watched a person be dismembered.

I was, while you were thinking of that I was like I wonder if animals see other animals get killed and are like messed up by that. I don't know because maybe we're the only, we're the only living thing that feels that way but seeing someone, another human be cut to pieces like meat would eff you up mentally. And so you have, of course he went out and was like I have to kill this. I have to kill this with anything. Yeah. And so he, he went hard. I don't blame him. I would have done the exact same thing.

And while. Probably not with Phyllis because I hear she's a cook for. But that's, that's exactly why he went to her because she was a co-core because he enjoyed the feeling of fucking and cocaine. He knew that he could like buy Coke and that she would just like be, and she would just do it and he'd have her forever. How is that a loving relationship? Whatever. It's not. It's not.

That's the thing. It's not a loving relationship at all. And while I would say Frank is by no means a good person as he has, you know, participated in murders and crimes galore. He's, it's weird to say he's no Tommy even though they're both terrible, terrible people. But Frank is going to have a sort of redemption arc as we'll see as we continue on. So he goes back with Phyllis and they do cocaine and have sex all night. Frank was falling for her and fast. But as you all have already deduced, this wouldn't last.

Not because of anything he did specifically, though that's more in his mind, but because of how things go in this particular lifestyle. Some hours later, Celestin, uh, uh, yeah, some hours later Celestin Phyllis were out partying as they tended to do. They had a long, I apologize. Uh, yeah, they had a long cocaine fueled night of partying and enjoyment. So this was a few days after Frank had sex with Phyllis. Um, and it's a long cocaine fueled night partying and enjoyment, but had decided that they wanted to come down and to rest to end their party spree. Oh my God. Oh, and they do heroin, right?

Yes, they do. Speedballing. Oh my God. Yeah, the speedballing, correct. Dummies. Uh, so they had a party spree and their preferred way to come down from cocaine was a heroin, also known as a speedball. And their preferred method, mainlining it, which means injecting it. Yeah.

Yo. That's how they prefer to do it. Talking about traffic, the movie, you know what I'm saying? This is an incredibly bad choice on both their parts. The fact that this is their preferred method. Everything about this is if straight up, if they weren't got by the drugs, AIDS, or some crazy disease would get them. This is the worst case scenario for all of these people. All right, please continue.

Yeah. So Celeste was done partying, uh, that night and she wanted to come down, so she decided to mainline some heroin and rest. She had no idea how pure the heroin was, but for people who don't know, the more pure, the more lethal it is. And the heroin is anywhere between, I guess, 5% and 85% pure on average, or, like, normally, or whatever, depending on what you're buying. Um, and come to find out, the stuff that she was using was incredibly, incredibly pure. The warm embrace of heroin. Shut up. Did she just kill herself?

The warm embrace of heroin hit her hard and she came down very, very quickly from her cocaine-fueled rush. Her eyes rolled in the back of her head and she drifted into unconsciousness. No. Little did those in the same apartment, her friends, including Phyllis, who was there, she wasn't going to be waking up. Oh, my God. Nothing even had to happen. What? She just fucking died.

Oh, no, here we go. Fast forward, bud. I was gonna be so pissed. Oh, no, I know where this is going. And because so many, all the people in the place they were hanging also did heroin, it would be hours before any of her friends would rouse, and it would be long past her expiration date when they found her. She had been dead for many hours when they finally found her. And, of course, cops were called and they panicked.

Almost all of them left that day, except for one person. Tommy's one anchor to sanity had just vanished. And it wouldn't be long before Tommy had found out. He did have eyes and ears everywhere, and when he did find out, he made his way to the apartment where Celeste's body was still lying. The door was open and only one rookie cop that Tommy already knew was there, waiting for the rest of the police force to arrive. Upon seeing her body, Frank being there as well, Tommy nearly lost control. He sobbed, he paced, he screamed, his hands cupped over his mouth, he was freaking out. Frank said he had never seen Tommy like that before, and he never would again.

Shortly after Tommy's minor freak out, who would walk out of the bathroom but Phyllis. And upon seeing Phyllis, Tommy shouted, I told you, oh actually, can one of the two of you in Mickey Mouse voice, please shout. Okay, I told you to stay away from her, you bastard. And he quickly went at her with anger and violence. The cop however got in the way, telling Tommy he knew he couldn't do that, not with him there, that he had to leave. And Tommy obeyed, he left, but not without some final words. While he looked back at Phyllis, walking out the door, maintaining eye contact, saying over and over again, go for it, Jesse.

I'm gonna get you, I'm gonna get you. If you believe in your mind and your imagination. And he would leave with Frank and go directly to Frank's house. In Tommy's eyes, it was time for Frank to earn his colors and complete trust and loyalty. Oh no, he's gonna tell him to kill her. Tommy wanted Phyllis dead, and he wanted Frank to do it. This is exactly how you get somebody to go to the police. This is why if you're a killer for hire, you do it yourself.

Don't invite your friends in. Don't be like, the only way you're gonna get out of this is by killing your own girlfriend. Who you love. Well keep in mind, Tommy doesn't know that Frank is sleeping with Phyllis, he has no idea. Frank has been sleeping with Phyllis kind of on the low, quote unquote. Not really telling Tommy and just kind of keeping it to himself. So, I can imagine now Frank, you know, just the feeling of Tommy being like, she has to die and you have to do it. I feel like in the past month of Frank's life, everything went from bad to worse to just the absolute rock bottom for him.

And he was afraid of Tommy. He was too afraid of Tommy to say no. So, he agreed. He agreed that he would kill Phyllis. Yeah, I'll do it. I'll do it. I would just drive. I would be like, yep, I'm on it, and then I would just drive to Chile. At what point in your, do you still give Frank rather leniency and still being a quote unquote good guy? At what point do you say, no matter how good he is, he's irredeemable for an action? Do you say like, if he killed Phyllis, that was it? Because I'm curious, because some things are about to happen.

And I'm very curious about your theories. I want to know. Tommy Patera? Tommy Patera or Frank? No Frank. If I was Frank, if I was Frank, the moment that the bathtub night happened, I would have been out of there. So, do you already consider Frank irredeemable? Because he never went out of there. He continued to work with Tommy. This is all taking place like a few months after the bathroom incident that he saw. Does Frank ever kill people?

He has been witness to and part of, and we're going to find out if he kills Phyllis here in a second. But up to this point, it's insinuated that he's been part of murders, but they're always like, not to like, it's not to desensitize or diminish these murders, but like, the quick like angry gang violence kind of murder. Never like, never like, go in someone's house and cut their leg off or something, yeah. Right, yeah, never that kind of thing. But granted, doesn't make him any less awful. I mean, if the baseline is that that's how you kill people in the mob, right? And then you find a guy who's not just doing that, he's serial killing people and like, enjoying himself. Even if I'm a murderer, I'm out on that because, you know, if you're a mobster, right, like, there's no pretense. You're going to be killing people. You know what I mean? Like, you're in that life, there is a certain expectation.

And if somebody's out there who fucks your, like, morals up, who's like, you're feeling like, oh my God, this guy's like too extreme. Like, you know that there's something bad going on. Like, it's time to go. There's nothing that would ever stop me from turning. But if this right here, the moment where he's like, kill Phyllis, this is the time that I would go to the police. Okay, same thing for you, Jesse. Is this like where you would be like, I'm it, or for Frank, would you be like, this has to be his line? Here's the problem. If you're in this lifestyle, there is, you don't go to the police because many of the police are in with you, right? And so, especially during this time period, there's no way. Who do you trust? And the minute you go to the police, how long can you stay in prison before someone kills you? Or how long can you stay in witness protection?

This is a lifestyle where, when it's good, it's great. But if you screw up, you're done. And those are just the rules. And so, I think in Frank's mind, if he just went along with it, he could be fine. But mentally, he was so messed up that he kept having to go back and, like, do coke and have sex with this woman. And I feel like that then compounds upon it where it's like, that's his only coping mechanism. So anytime something goes bad, he's just going to go do more coke. And so, I feel like the minute he's like, I need you to go kill Phyllis, he's like, I need to find Phyllis and do coke. That's what drug addiction is, man. This guy is not thinking straight. I guarantee he's a crazy person at this point. It seems so easy not to fuck up your shit, but maybe I'm missing something.

Well, there's probably a lot. I mean, there's a lot that isn't... Maybe cocaine is just rules. If you want Frank's day-to-day right now, at this point in his life, if he's not high, he's drunk. But what does he do for the mob? He's a bitch boy. He's not a made man. He's not a made man. And he never will be because he's not pure enough, like in blood, he's not like a full-on Italian. So while he associates with them and he gets some of the money from it and he makes good money, he's kind of always their errand boy.

So the fact that Tommy had reached out, this man who is basically famous in mafia life in this area, was trying to take him closer. To say no to that is to say no to instant success in a lot of ways. Because you remember, Frank came to Tommy initially because he owed somebody money. And they basically, the mafia appointed him to Tommy and he started dealing coke for Tommy. And he was doing very good at it and Tommy really liked him, so as Tommy started to pull him closer and closer, and Frank loved that until the point he realized. Never sample the merchandise, Frank. Like he really, like while he heard the horror stories of Tommy and who he was,

it wasn't until he saw what Tommy did that really was like, oh my god, this guy's a monster. And by the time he had realized what Tommy was, he was so close to Tommy that there was really no easy way to untangle his life from his. Yo, we need like a good fellas remake of this story. I would love that. I would watch it. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, let's find out what Frank did next.

Frank did everything in his power to actually avoid Phyllis. He did not try and find her. He did not try and call her. And Phyllis on her end was laying low, but she wasn't leaving town. And there are theories why she didn't, there are theories why she didn't leave town, but the most prevalent theory is that this is all she knew. She loved cocaine. She loved cocaine. This is all she knew. Everybody she knew she got drugs from or here.

And she still felt a weird sense of safety here because she had been part of that lifestyle for so long. But she was laying low and they were not running into each other and they were not trying to run into each other. And because Frank was not running into Phyllis, Tommy was pestering the fuck out of Frank. Every day was, have you found her? Have you killed her? Have you found her? Have you killed her? God damn. Everything he could to stall Tommy to buy time. And while it was true that he hadn't seen Phyllis, he also wasn't going out of his way to find her, as I had just said. But-

You know what's messed up? I'm not sure where this is going, but I have a feeling that eventually Frank turns in Tommy. And I feel like a lot more terrible shit has to happen for him to do that, which is kind of sad because he should have done it, like Alex said, way back in the beginning. There would have been no hesitation in my goddamn mind. I would have been like, this is fucked up. Do I have a gun in this scenario? Because if that man starts chopping somebody up and like being like, come into the bathtub with me,

I would be like, I'm going to kill you. This is crazy. It's a weird, I see it as a weird Stockholm syndrome kind of thing, where he is so afraid and so obedient to Tommy that even the worst thing that he's done, he will never stray away due to fear. Tommy is his lifestyle as well. Yeah, exactly. Tommy is kind of the center of how he currently lives his life.

So he stayed away from Phyllis and Phyllis Slade low, but fate wouldn't keep them apart forever. Oh god. He would cross her path merely by chance, not long after, a few days. He, when he saw her, warned her, told her to leave town, run off, get out, that Tommy is, wants her dead, and that he was sending people after her.

But Phyllis completely refused to listen. That night, Frank and Phyllis would do cocaine and have sex again. God damn it, Frank. Frank, you know what? I'm blaming Phyllis on this one too. Both of them. Terrible for each other. Yeah.

Literally the worst. Terrible. Frank, come on man. But he would have maybe gotten away, or maybe ignored the fact that he saw her if they had stopped. But they did cocaine and had sex all night and into the day until they ran out of cocaine. Yo, can I be real with you for a second?

Yeah. Frank, Phyllis. Maybe all, like, this doing drugs, having sex all night, I figure there's got to be a, maybe I'm old, guys. Maybe I'm old. That seems like a lot of goddamn work. I want to sleep. Frank, I want to go to bed all night and do drugs all night.

Frank was trying to avoid sleeping a lot too because he was constantly having nightmares. According to him, of course. Y'all need to, like, get it over with. You got to wake up in the morning. Shit is too much. Just too much. And according to the interview that Frank had given,

Frank said while they were having sex that he felt guilty and sad knowing that if she didn't leave that her days were numbered whether he did the killing or not. But it didn't stop him from furiously fucking each other and doing drugs with her that night into the morning. That's, I just, that's too much. It's too much. I'm going to get caught up on the, I'm hung up on the fact

that every time they meet, they only do drugs that have sex. And then quote unquote all night. It's too much. It's too much. It's clearly not a healthy move. No, it's a lot of, like, at this point are they even having sex to have sex? Or are they having sex to forget?

What is sex in this, what is sex in this scenario? Right. Like, what are they doing? Sniffing, cooking. We talking the Humpty Hump? Are we talking the, like, the Koopty Doopty? Freaky shit. Oh, okay.

Well, then that's fine. Freaky devious shit. Yeah, no, we're good. Okay. You can do that all night. And like, according, according to... You're back on Frank's side now. Yeah, I'm back on it now.

Frank, you're doing it. You're doing all right. According to an interview, according to an interview I read as well as according to the book that I read, Phyllis was, like, the reason he loved it so much is that she was so deviant in bed. She loved all kinds of weird shit. Frank made a point that she loved having sex

with multiple guys at once, like, that kind of thing. She just, like, loved the lifestyle. And he showed her, or she showed him things that he had never seen before. It was an escape for him. But he still felt guilty. Didn't stop him from fucking. And the next morning, at one point,

they ran out of cocaine. But Frank knew a guy, because, of course, he knew a guy. So instead of going to sleep, they went to his place. Yo, this is how it ends right here. Dude. This is it? They done F'd up? They done F'd up?

They bought more cocaine in heroin and partied at that guy's place. Yo, this guy immediately has to call Tommy. You know that's what happens, right? Well, we'll see what happens. Oh, shut up. There's no way you go to the drug dealer and he's like, hey, everyone on the street,

I'm looking for this lady Phyllis. My dude Frank's trying to find Phyllis. When they show up together, I'd be like, yo, Tommy, you're never going to believe this. So the drug dealer actually sold them the drugs and left and let them party in his place. He didn't care. And they did.

And they would party until they both would eventually come down and fall asleep. Tommy, however, was still awake, angry, pacing, looking everywhere for Phyllis. And he could never find her. He would try to get ahold of Frank, but couldn't. He wasn't answering his phone. Eventually, Tommy called a man named Musa.

And it just so happened. Musa? Yeah, I think he was part of the Israeli gang that was in the area if I remember correctly. Oh, shit. Yeah. And it just so happened that Musa is exactly where Frank went to buy drugs.

So he's at Musa's fucking house when Tommy calls him? And party. Yes, and party with Phyllis. Oh, my God. And when Musa's phone rang, Frank woke up. And answered the phone. She's like, oh, dude. Now remember, there's no caller ID.

There's no caller ID here in 1989 or 88 or whenever this is happening. It might be 90 at this point, 1990. And without hesitation, Frank said, after Tommy asked what the hell he was doing there, Frank said to Tommy, without hesitating, I'm with Phyllis. She's here.

Oh, my God, Tommy, you'll never believe who I am. I just totally found her. Oh, man. Oh, man. I have my penis in her vagina right now. That's crazy. And Tommy's so weird. So it's kind of weird.

The funny thing is Tommy didn't question it. All he said to her, and I quote, was no matter what, you keep her there. You understand? You keep her there. Feel free, Mickey Mouse it. I got to remember to give these the Mickey Mouse voice. Go for it, Jackie.

Sure, sure, sure. Alex, you're going to have to be Tommy or Frank. OK. So yeah, open up with Frank saying I'm with Phyllis. She's here. I'm with Phyllis. She's here. No matter what you do, keep her there.

You understand? Keep her there. OK. Oh, shit. Shoot her in the side. That's actually hilarious because his response, while I didn't annotate it, his response was OK. All right.

All right. And the thing is? I will do that. Yes. And the thing is, she wasn't going anywhere. She was asleep, high on heroin, naked in a bed in another room. What a way to go out.

Holy fuck. Tommy quickly ran home, grabbed his gun, a silencer, and his amputation tools. Oh, let me go grab my fucking silencer. Yeah. He gets a silencer and his tools, and quickly made his way to the moosa residence where Frank was awake and waiting.

When he saw Frank, he merely asked where she was. Frank pointed to the room. Tommy asked if she was sleeping, and Frank said yes. He walked into the room, immediately pointed his gun at the naked sleeping Phyllis, and empty three rounds into her. Damn. Damn. And just like that, Phyllis was now dead.

At least she got killed in her sleep. And she wasn't awake and didn't get to get tortured or anything because, you know, I'm sure if she was. Yeah, I guess that's true. That is a small comfort. Yeah, in a weird way. Immediately after she had been shot, as he always did, he grabbed her body, picked it up,

and hauled it to the bathtub in the apartment, which there was no bathtub in here. It was an oversized jacuzzi, which is what he used. And got to work. Got the water flowing, took off his clothes, took out his tools, and started to dismember Phyllis piece by piece. Oh, my God. And Frank sat in the other room, horrified.

Eventually, Tommy called for Frank to come into the room where Tommy was dismembering her. And he was only part way through. He had taken off her arms and her head. And Phyllis' head was sitting at the edge of the oversized jacuzzi facing Frank, one eye closed with another wide open. Jesus fucking Christ. A few hours ago, they were just having sex.

Now she was being butchered like a cow. Tommy, as Frank walked in, was mid-work. He had Phyllis' legs wrapped in his hands around her Achilles tendon, pushed the leg forward, and used a hunting knife to cut through the large muscle connecting her legs to her torso. Jesus. And Frank was forced to watch. As Frank walked in, Tommy began to explain what the types of rounds

he used on her did to her insides. They were glacer rounds. How they caused massive internal damage to a person. Yeah, so for people who don't know what these are, basically they have little pellets inside them. And when you shoot someone, they create super deep, messed up wounds. It rips shockwaves through your body. And the crazy thing is, these rounds are only designed to hurt humans

in the worst way possible. If you shoot it like at a wall, for example, they're so flimsy that they would bounce off and ricochet off. Like they do not shoot through structural barriers. Like even drywall. Maybe a little thicker than drywall. But even sheet metal, it sucks at. And so these are designed, literally, to be the most painful way to die.

So, yep, that's what Tommy uses. Yeah. Damn. He was explaining to Frank as he walked into the bathroom how they worked. And it seemed as though this was an everyday thing for Tommy while Frank was now even more traumatized than he already was. He was explaining how they caused massive internal damage, as I said. Then he picked up his pistol and shot her lifeless torso,

or limbless lifeless torso, three more times while he explained in detail how those rounds worked and showed the wounds to Frank. Literally a scene from a movie. Yeah. Literally. This whole thing is, yeah, a true crime movie. This has to happen.

It should. Frank watched horrified, but kind of gave that thousand-yard stare and continued to obey Tommy Paterra. He'd grab bags for him, help him put the pieces of Phyllis, his once-lover, into them, then put them in the suitcases, and then eventually put the suitcases in his car. Frank wouldn't help him bury the bodies that night, though. Tommy had a couple of thugs show up and help him instead. And the head never got buried, either.

The head was brought home with Tommy, never to be seen again. That was his trophy? That was his trophy. And nobody knows what he did with the head. I remember one of the co-ed killers, somebody like that, used to cut off people's heads and make them suck his dick and stuff. Yeah, this horrifying, horrifying things. Tommy never said what he did with it, and nobody ever found out what happened with it.

Only that the head went home with him. Jesus. And that it was gone. Which, again, is another flag of, like, hey, yeah, you might have a serial killer on your hands here. If this is what he's doing with bodies. Like, serious? Oh my god. I was trying to say seriously, and then I was, like, thinking of the word serial, and I said,

Kereal. But, uh, yeah, seriously, like, that's what this is. This would prove to be something Frank would never not only forget, but also never forgive Tommy for it, either. Now, it's important that while all this is happening, the DEA is still trying to get into the inner circle of the mafia here. To use the context that they've made to get inside the inner circle and figure out more things about Tommy. And while they were getting information, it was moving very, very, very slowly, too slowly for them. Um, they had contacts and feelers out everywhere, and Tommy, with the help of Frank, would continue to murder and kill as he pleased for a while longer. What do we mean after?

What do we mean a while? A few more months. Jesus. Yeah. Frank, you, I thought you'd be a cool dude. I lost respect for Frank. Yeah. Why did I think Frank, nothing about Frank screamed like he would be the one to man up now.

No, of course not. If you didn't do it all those other times, of course he's not gonna do it now. Yep. Yeah, and, uh, Frank's every day, while he was either drunk or high usually, he was now going through two bottles of whiskey a day. Jesus. To keep him from dreaming, to stop him from remembering, he was lost. Is that not normal? Is that not normal?

Do you guys not go through two a day? I only go through one. Two a day and you're okay. One is normal. That's what they say. Two a day and you're okay. Yeah. Three at night.

Three at night. No dream, no dream delight. Yeah, three at night you die. Go to the hospital, three at night. Yeah, and so they would continue to work together. But, um, Frank, however, was complicit in my mind. This is something that was a mess. In reality, not just in your mind.

Yeah, yeah. From like moment one. I wrote down, I wrote down in the notes because I kind of write my notes like a story now at this point. But I wrote down Frank, however, was complicit. That came, that's me. Like I was like, he's complicit, right? Like he's definitely complicit in all of this. Drunk high or both at any given time was his preferred way of life at this point.

He could no longer sleep plagued by nightmares. While awake, guilt racked him endlessly. Drugs and alcohol were his only escape in his mind. It had consumed him almost entirely. And the DEA, for what they've known, they knew about Frank. Because Frank was almost anywhere Tommy was going. Frank was now Tommy's kind of lap dog in a lot of ways. Dude.

And maybe at some point, maybe Frank felt a weird kind of safety around Tommy. As long as he was with Tommy, then Tommy wasn't going to kill him. And then Tommy knew that he wasn't being a rat. It's like a clear flaw in that logic. There's many flaws in his logic. Absolutely. There was flaws in his logic, like you said, by the first time he watched somebody butcher him and then went to go have sex with Phyllis.

Either way, Frank had flawed logic. But they couldn't quite get their hands on Frank. But eventually, on April 9th, I mean April 10th, 1990, after another long night of drinking and women, Frank Drunk had driven through a red light with a squad car that was nearby. That's how he fucking went down. He ran a fucking red light. After all that shit, he fucking watches a man shoot his, like, freaky-deaky girlfriend to death

and cut her up and all this shit, murders people with him for months, and then he fucks up because he drives through a fucking red light. Mm-hmm. That is, this is embarrassing. And something to point out for those who are interested in doing their own research, I am jumping quite far ahead. There's a lot of stuff that happens in between that is worth researching, but if I sit here and just go beat by beat of their life, we'd be here for another six episodes.

So if you want more on the DEA and exactly what they were doing and how they were getting involved, do yourself a favor, read the book, go do some research online. It's fascinating what the DEA was doing all the while, especially working with technology from the mid to late, I mean mid to late 80s. They've been eyes on for like... They've been eyes on watching him for well over at this point two years. Jesus Christ.

Yeah. But they could never get anything solid on him. That's, that's the problem. That was the problem with Tommy. Tommy was so paranoid as we discussed and so elusive that he covered his bases better than anyone that they were following. He was so hard to put any evidence on that they could, they could arrest him, but they had nothing to show for it.

Because Tommy was very good at making all the dirty work be done by his subordinates. The only things he did to his own was the killing because he was so goddamn good at it. And he never got caught because nobody knew where his burial ground was. Nobody thought that the bird sanctuary, the government owned bird sanctuary was where he was burying bodies. So, you know, he didn't really have any dirt on him. People knew he was in the mafia, but no evidence. Anyway, so, yeah, he got pulled over and he was very clearly drunk.

And that though he tried to talk his way out of it and get it, maybe in the last minute tried to bribe the cop, it didn't work. And the cop put him behind bars for that night, just for the night to help him sober up. But behind bars and possibly now in the lowest point in his life, Frank made a decision. It was time to clear his conscience, to change his life, to get out of everything he'd been in and atone for his crimes. He saw the bars and the cell and didn't want this to be where he ended up for the rest of his life. So, the more he sobered up, the more resolute in his decision he became.

He was done. After pacing a bit, he let the nearby officer know that he needed to talk to a detective. He gave a specific detective name, by the way. A detective that had questioned him a few times many, many years ago. The detective was basically so charismatic that Frank basically trusted him. Oh my god, it is a movie. So charismatic. It's about the detective and about Frank.

The interstitials in the movie is them talking. And it's like, is this before or after? Oh my god, so many potential... Alex, can we just write this movie? Right, yeah. I feel like somebody needs to. Initially, the officer basically kind of waved him away like, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. But then Frank started talking about the murders and the dismemberings and in gruesome detail. And that was enough to get the officer to call the detective.

The detective was actually about to call it for a night. He was almost done. He was ready to be done. But when he heard Frank Angi wanted to talk about Tommy Patera, the detective got a brand new energy into him and drove his way down to the station. It was important and it needed to be done now. So, with the detective arriving, things began to change. Sitting down with the detective, Frank nearly voluntarily spewed forth everything. Apparently, Frank had a knack for details and he was very good at telling a story.

He had a great memory. And without skipping a beat, he walked them through everything. How Tommy killed. Frank's part in all of the murders that he had witnessed. Who he had killed. How he had cut them up afterward. Where he buried them all. And when Frank finally got to talking about Phyllis,

he broke down, sobbed, chain-smoked cigarettes, stared off, never finished his sentences and became visibly kind of traumatized. This cop was probably just like, Yeah, you got anything on your mind you want to talk about, man? Is there anything eating you up that you need to talk about? He just like, yeah. He's like, Frank's in the interview room sitting at the table. The door opens.

The detective takes one step in and Frank's just like, Oh my god. I can't wait to tell you. How's life, man? Well, let me tell you about why I don't take baths anymore. Oh my god. And so he just started confessing everything. So yeah, like I said, he got talked about to Phyllis

and things went down poorly for him. The DEA, however, and the detective and the cops was listening to all of this and taking it all down. They had been after Protera for years now. And this might finally, if Frank was telling the truth about the bodies and such, be their chance to get evidence and finally pin Tommy down for good. After talking to Frank, he would call up Jim Hunt,

which is kind of the yin to Tommy's yang in this story. He was part of the DEA and within hours, they asked Frank if they could bring the police force and Jim to the burial ground that he talked about. Frank agreed and said he could do it. And then the next day led them to the bird sanctuary on Staten Island. Man.

There? Yeah. Go ahead. What were you going to say something? I just like, can you imagine somebody bringing you to like, just like imagine you're a cop, even if you know that you're like going after a murderer, you know, and you just like drive down there and then this,

you're like where? And this guy's like right there and you just like open it and it's like a leg. That's like, that's just like so fucked up to me. Well, what actually ended up happening is they spent almost the entire, for a whole first day without any success. The thing is, Frank knew where the bodies were buried,

but they were buried at night every single time. Yeah, he was not 100 on it. Yeah. So like he wasn't sure exactly where, he just knew general vicinity somewhere around here. And the whole first day, they had, what they had is the way they combed the forest is they had these big metal rods

and they would walk like one or two steps, stick the rod into the ground to see if it hit anything, pull it back up, walk a few steps, stick a rod into the ground, see if they find anything. And they had spread out with like a bunch of police officers and detectives and done that all day long in the sweltering summer, the sweltering summer heat. The first day they found nothing.

However, it was on the second day that things changed. There, under the brush, and after hours and hours of searching on their second day, the police hit something. They called people over, they dug it up, and what was underneath the ground was a briefcase. They popped it open and what they found was a torso and a leg. Damn, literally a leg.

Yes, quite literally, a leg and a torso. Fuck, man. And then with a new kind of, yeah, it's insane. And now with like, with newfound confidence, they quickly started going through the rest of Staten Island, the Bird Sanctuary, and over the course of hours and days, they found the remains of a total of 18 people,

including Phyllis, who was missing her head. Ugh. Damn. Frank was very quickly brought into witness protection after this, and shortly after, his common law wife, Sophia, and his children, but not before Tommy knew something was up. How does that work? Is that still a thing?

Witness protection? Yeah. Well, the way they did it here, and we'll talk about it here, they basically flew him out of New York into California and had him in a hotel in California, and he wasn't allowed to use a phone and only talked to very specific people. And he agreed, as long as they made sure his wife and child

were okay as well. However, like I said, and while I didn't, Tommy knew something was up. He had been trying to get ahold of Frank for a while now while he was under the, you know, protection of the DEA, and he couldn't get ahold of him. And Tommy, if you can't get ahold of somebody in a day or two, he immediately believes you've turned and believes you're a rat.

He eventually, Tommy, went looking for his wife and kid, found her in a restaurant, and with his thug, went up to Sophia and his kid and asked where Frank was. And Sophia had only recently talked to Frank, not really knowing what was going on, and told Tommy that he was in California the last he heard. And that was enough for Tommy to leave and be 100% convinced that Frank was now a rat,

working with the DEA, and he was now in crisis management mode. How does he get Frank? How does he kill Frank? How does he remove him from the equation without being caught and cover his tracks to keep him safe? He had been trying to get ahold of Frank for days, and immediately believed that Frank had flipped, and of course, he was right. Frank and his family were then being kept in a hotel far away in California.

About the next day after Tommy had kind of confronted his wife, the DEA showed up at her house and took Sophia and the kid and flew him away, and that's good because Tommy apparently had been thinking about abducting the wife and kid and torturing and killing them until Frank came out. But he basically didn't enact on that idea right away, which was enough time for the DEA to get there and grab the family and fly them out to California with Frank. And Frank would stay in California until this was all done.

He had served his part, and he was now in his mind. Sipping drinks by the pool. Yeah, he was sober, he wasn't drinking or doing drugs, and according to the police reports, Frank became a very different person. He was very calm, willing to help, as though the guilt had been lifted off of his shoulders. He was a soft-spoken man after he was off the drugs, and generally very friendly, I guess is the word I would use, talking with them and cooperating with them.

But I guess, you know, once you realize that you know you've turned into a serial killer, working with the cops is kind of your only option. I guess, yeah. So Tommy, knowing Frank had turned to a rat, called upon not just the Bonanno crime family, but all of the families in the area and all of the family's associates for Frank's head. And they, without hesitation, heeded his call. Within a day or two, thousands of mafia men were now looking for Frank

and to kill Frank to remove a rat from their presence. How hard is it to get away from the mob? Like, if they're trying to get you... I guess it depends. They don't really talk about it. I didn't really look too much, but I assume it's not like there's a worldwide mafia crime ring. Like was Frank ever in danger? It didn't seem like it.

Once he was in California, it seemed like he was safe. There's literally no reason not to go to the cops then. Yeah, exactly. Well, I mean, the thing is, if the cops don't believe you and Tommy finds out that you're dead... There's certain rules though, right? I feel like if you're a rat and they don't get you out, you're dead. But if they do get you out, then a lot of the time you'll see,

and this is... Many mob informants have done this where they've gotten out and they've lived in like Arizona or something, and the mob will harass them but not kill them. And I don't know if that's because at that point if they just showed up dead, it would pin it back on the mob. Yeah. Well, there are pictures of Frank more from nowadays.

He actually has a picture with the author of the book that I read as well. Like the author actually directly interviewed Frank for a lot of the story. Is Frank still alive? Yeah, Frank is still alive. What does he do these days? I don't know. I think he's still technically under witness protection if I remember correctly. What's his last name?

Frank Gange. G-A-N-G-I. Interesting. I'm trying to see if I have anything off the top of my head. But yeah, he's still alive. He's still kicking. Anyway, let's move on with the story. So, thousands of mafia men were looking for Frank to kill him at this point. Because Tommy pulled such power, nobody was going to say no.

And really, the mafia doesn't want to lose someone like Paterra, right? He's exceptionally good at what he does. But the DEA already had everything they needed to finish Paterra. Names, bodies, places, all the evidence they could need. The ghost that was Tommy was no more, and instead, the monster he actually was, was being seen fully for the first time by the DEA. And he had nowhere to hide. And Paterra knew it.

The DEA just needed to find him and take him in before Paterra could cover his tracks and hide permanently. And about two months later, on June 3rd, 1990, shortly after Tommy had dropped off his new girlfriend, by the way, he had a new girlfriend during those months between the last time. How does he have time for all this? How does he have time for all this? I feel like bureaucracy just makes all process go really slow. Yeah, probably. And his new girlfriend's name was Barbara.

He was dropping her off one day and was heading off to do his own thing in the city. Man, he moves quick. He was following her. I mean, I'm sorry, they were following Tommy for days at this point. Just waiting for a moment where they could get him, where he wouldn't have any reinforcements. Sure. Nobody, like, you know, less guns, less casualties. And this particular day after dropping Barbara off, Tommy got stuck in standstill traffic.

That's fucking perfect. So this is how they take him down, is they like, rush him while he's in a car? This is correct. Because he can't go anywhere. It was at this moment. That's so good. It was at this moment where the traffic had stood still that they took their chance. Jim Hunt and his partner Tommy, so now there's the Tommy the cop partner and Tommy Paterra,

rushed Tommy Paterra's car slamming on the driver's side door with their guns drawn, telling him to get out and get on his hands behind his back and on his stomach. But the driver's side door is locked and Tommy quickly reached over to the passenger side door and threw himself out the passenger side. Got up. Oh my god. And with a burst of speed began to run. This is Jim.

This is a movie. This is a movie. This is the last scene of the fugitive. Jim and Tommy took Chase after Paterra. I'm going to call Tommy Paterra now and call the other Tommy, just Tommy. Chase him until they eventually grabbed him and tackled him and started wrestling him to the ground. A fight ensued as they struggled as both Tim and his partner Tommy tried to get him on his stomach, but Tommy was a martial arts master and a big...

Tell me he kills one of these guys. No way, right? And they fight a ton on the ground. No gunshots were fired though. And eventually Tommy, the police officer, grabbed Tommy Paterra by the face and slammed his face into the asphalt, breaking his nose and bruising both of his eyes. And you can actually see him damaged in the mugshot that he had. Jesus.

That came shortly after. And they were able to, while he was stunned, cuff him. And it was in that instant that Tommy Karate Paterra's reign of terror over New York had come to a halt. It was over and Tommy was in custody. All right, let's go back to the movie for a minute. You lose. Can you? Can you imagine if over the course of this movie, Tommy, not Paterra, Tommy, the cop Tommy,

the whole joke between the two of them was like, you know, he was better at, like, clearly Paterra's better at his job than you. They're like, they have a little partner thing, but at the end Tommy slams his face on the ground. And then the main cop is like, whoa, calm down, killer. And they both look at each other like, ha, ha, ha. Looks like you beat the ninja. Yeah. Come on. Everything in here is perfectly set up.

You know what? It really is. If not a movie, how about a fighting game? Fighting game? Yeah. Just like a solid, like 2D fighter. You can have like the, you can have Phyllis as a character. You can have Tommy.

You can have the frickin' banana guy. Dude, just, why would Phyllis be there? Why would Phyllis be there? No cocaine. You know, she, she whispers sweet nothings. Her super move is you just fuck her. And like when the cut scene is done, you're just out of like almost all your health is gone. Her super move is just that she whispers to your girlfriend and gets her to like leave you.

Oh my God. What a fucking crazy story. Holy shit. So Thor wrap up to give you an epilogue as to what happened afterward. Tommy pled guilty to 18 of the 19 murders he was trialed. I actually never got tried for Phyllis's death because they couldn't identify her properly. Because of her head? Because her body was so rotted and her head was missing that there was no way to identify that it was Phyllis.

No teeth, right? Yeah, no teeth. Like the head is just gone. But he got 18 out of 19. They tried, when they interviewed Tommy, I guess he, all, when they were talking to him, he was incredibly smug, completely charismatic during his interview. In the beginning, he tried to be helpful but in kind of like an assholeish way where he's pretending he doesn't know what they're talking about. Eventually after he was convicted, they tried to get Tommy to give information on the inner workings of the Bonanno crime family in the Mafia ring. Tommy never ever budged.

He never rotted them out. He has, until to this day, has complete respect for his family and pride for being who he was. He's got total creds. Yeah, like he is completely still considered like as good as he was. He never ratted on the family in prison. Amazing. Yeah, it's insane. So, here's where some of the people are now.

Tommy is still in Allenwood Federal Penitentiary in Pennsylvania right now. He loves reading. And the other thing too, when they raided all of his apartments, by the way, his main living apartment was pretty empty. His other apartment was storing things and the other apartment is where they found all of them. It was filled with the books that Hugh had read over and over and over again about dismembering and fighting. He also had a safe in that apartment that they cracked open and in the safe was all trophies from different people he had killed. Whether it be jewelry or a finger or stuff like that, he had trophies from all the people he had killed. Just like in baggies and shit?

Yeah, like just as totems or trophies for his kills. God damn. He is still a voracious reader. Hopefully he doesn't listen to podcasts. Yeah, fingers crossed. Particularly that of things about war and famous battles, martial arts and killing, his typical things. And his family still comes to visit him and he receives mail and books from friends and family in prison still. Because remember, he still had before Phyllis, I mean before Celeste, he had a wife and kid.

It's true that he was taken care of and they come to visit him still. Jim Hunt is the DEA officer. He's still working as an assistant special agent in charge of the DEA's New York office on 10th Avenue. Amazing. Still doing his job. Physically fit. Doing a good job. Jim Hunt.

Frank Gange. Frank Gange is still in the witness protection program. He is quote unquote miserable. His entire family completely disowned him. He still has a massive drinking problem and smokes two packs of cigarettes a day. Hell yeah. Get it Frank. He's still to this day.

This is the end of a movie. Oh my god. He apparently still cries when he talks about Phyllis. Really? Yep. I read an interview with him from like two or three years ago that he went back to New York at one point. Oh really? Just like to see what the deal was and stuff.

I don't know how good of a source this was. This was called the Kosa Nostra News. Gotcha. But he was like, it's so fucking weird dude. He's like, now you just see dudes openly posting on Facebook. People are writing all these books but he says it's all bullshit that they're just self serving. They're trying to build their brand. They realize they don't need to like do crime anymore if they're just like shady and they like lean into the mob angle.

He basically just like was taking the piss out of the mob which to me is like how you get killed by the mob. But I don't know. I haven't heard about somebody getting killed by the mob in some time. Yeah, I feel like it's a different world nowadays clearly. Damn. But yeah, apparently he's still miserable, living his life with no family and still in witness protection. Basically a lot of the fringe people of the DEA working with all who were on trial, who stood trial against Tommy and Corridor all in witness protection now as well. Obviously because if you're going to rat, you're probably going to be killed in the city working.

Tommy, the other cop, he retired from the DEA and is now the CEO of Sunbank Corp. I don't know what that is but that's what he is. And now is the CEO of Riot Games. La Casa Nostra, La Casa Nostra refers to the mob family in New York by the way. Yeah, that's the real deal one. And that's where I think all of our characters currently sit now. Damn. I don't know if there's anybody really else worth that we talked about that you want to know what happened to, but those are the big epilogue.

This was so weird because it was totally fucked up but like everything in here absolutely happened. Very different. It is an ultra crime. There are tons and tons of sources. You can go out there. I recommend the book that I read. There's a lot of you can just pull up his records. You can see that he's still in prison now.

You can see his mug shot from before and all the interviews or there's a lot of interviews out there that you can read. Library of Congress is a really good one. There's a lot of good stuff in there. Sick. Man, it's just a lot. Yeah, man. Wow. So the end.

That is the story of Tommy Karate Pitera. The man who was a martial arts prodigy as a child who got picked on for his high voice turned horrendous Mickey Mouse serial killer. How have I never heard this guy? After a reign of terror of about 13 years. Yeah, this is fascinating. How did I miss this guy? Yeah, what the fuck? Yeah.

Somebody make a movie. Somebody pay us to tell you to make it. I do wonder. I did do it. I don't think there is a movie about Tommy Pitera. Tommy Pitera movie. No. There's like YouTube documentaries.

I feel like the writer who wrote this book should probably sell that be the one to call us. Yeah. We'll call us and we'll make it. We'll help you. We'll put it in the right hands. I'm sure Philip Carlos is well off, man. He, a lot of his books, they all, like he has books on a lot of people that we talked about and that are talked about in this book that we didn't necessarily bring up on the podcast. Like the leaders of the crime family.

He has a whole book where he interviewed the leader of the banana crime. He's like a mob guy. He is a mob guy. That is his true crime niche, is just mafia mob crime. But because Tommy Pitera was like a mix of mafia and serial killer, if you look up, if you look at Philip Carlos, Philip Carlos like looks like a mob guy, like look at his pictures. But incredibly well written book coupled with some research and, man, just piecing it all together really paints an interesting picture of what I think is a, often ignored or completely ignored serial killer in Tommy Pitera. Truly, truly an amazing story.

And next time, if you're missing ghosts and weirdness, we'll have more for you. Yeah. I'm excited. We should have some more mini episodes coming up as well. Yeah. There's some good stuff coming out, but the next one is a bit more on the weirder side. Still based on a factual story, but I'm ready. I'm ready for weirds.

It's good. Do you know? Did we say what it was already? Do you want to tease it? I told you. I told you. I know what it is. I know what it is, but I'm wondering if, did we say to the people what it was?

I don't think we said what to the people what it was. That's good. This is going to be exciting. I think we'll leave it. Oh my God. Okay. But big thank you guys so much for watching. Thank you to the two of you for joining me on this wonderful story of Tommy Pitera.

I'm glad you guys enjoyed it as much as I did. Hell yeah. It was great. A big thank you to the viewers. We officially passed 50,000 listens a month. If we couple that with YouTube views as well, we're approaching like the 70,000 to 80,000 listens a month. That's great.

Wow. Phenomenal. Phenomenal. Holy shit. Phenomenal. Damn guys. Very, very excited. We are at the final steps of merch.

So keep your eyes and ears peeled for that. I'm ready to put a shirt on my body. It looks tight. Me too. The shirt looks tight. You guys. I really, really like it. Kind of gimmick that goes along with it.

Don't spoils it. I'm not going to spoil it. I'm not going to spoil it. And then if you guys like the merch and you really want more, we can whip up some more merch for you guys easily. If you guys like the episode, if you're in iTunes, please, where I think we're about to pass 355 star reviews, drop us a review, let people know how much you love it. And let your friends and family know about it as well.

It's the best way to spread it about a podcast as to what you can do. You can find us at ShilluminatiPod here to chat with us. There's a subreddit for ShilluminatiPodcast as well. My favorite place to learn is literally. There's such good shit in that subreddit, man. Go check it out. If you want to tweet at me directly, it's at Mathis Games. You want to tweet at Jesse directly.

It's at Jesse Cox. If you want to tweet at Alex specifically, it's at Fossiane A. Let us know how you enjoyed the true crime. This will not be the last time we do True Crime Bay. Any stretch. This one was, it was a surprisingly epic series of episodes, but I'm glad we went three on it. Interesting.

Yeah. It was great. We love you guys very, very much. And I can't think of anything else. Anything else we wanted to tackle guys, are we good? You're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna eat this next episode up. You get it? Yeah.

Yeah. You're gonna eat it right up. Get it? Nope. No, I'm terrified. You're gonna eat it up. All right. No.

All right, everybody. Thank you so much for listening and we'll see you next time for episode 10. Holy shit. Dude, 10th anniversary. Bye. Hell yeah. Bye. Ever had so much stress you wanted to hit the pause button on life?

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