Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 92 - The Time Traveling Ghost Detective Part 1

Episode Date: March 16, 2021

A mysterious tale of poltergeist hauntings, and GREAT SCOT TIME TRAVEL? Patreon - http://www.patreon.com/chilluminatipod BUY OUR MERCH - http://www.theyetee.com/collections/chilluminati Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - http://www.youtube.com/user/ThatOneLazerClown Art Commissioned by - http://www.mollyheadycarroll.com Theme - Matt Proft End song - POWER FAILURE - https://soundcloud.com/powerfailure Video - http://www.twitter.com/digitalmuppet

Boost your savings and benefits at City Market with a free 30-day trial of a Boost by City Market membership. You'll get two times fuel points on groceries and merchandise in-store with pickup or delivery. Your fuel points add up as you shop, too, and you won't even have to drive to earn them. Plus, get free delivery on any order over $35. More savings, more benefits, on all the things you need with Boost by City Market. A new level of membership has arrived. Sign up for a free 30-day trial today at citymarket.com slash boost. $35 order minimum, restrictions apply. See site for details. Hello, hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Chalun Minati podcast, episode 92. I'm almost

positive. You're right. It is. Yeah, yeah. Sweet. Perfect. As always, I'm one here. I was like, Mark, I'm doing my two. 92 of these damn things. I know. We're going to be at 100, like, really soon, dude. I can't believe we've been doing this show that long. There's not many things I've done 92 episodes of. I'll put it that way. We're on year three, Jesse. Really? Yes. I find that hard to believe. 2018 February was our first episode. Really? That's unbelievable. What's wrong with you people? I know. It's nuts. I thought for sure this would have petered out after episode six or seven. Yeah, I'm assuming you jumped in on this and just like,

this sounds novel and entertaining. Fun for a little bit. Here we are. And it would have, if it wasn't for Chalun Minati pod at patreon.com where you can keep us uploading episodes every single week from now until not just three years, but till eternity. And that is eternity, whether or not you believe that our brains are going to be digitized into a computer or put into some sort of alternate soul state and carried on in some sort of other realm. Are you saying if there is a version of heaven out there for whatever religion? We'll still take your heaven bucks. Is that what you're saying? If you got heaven bucks to spare, send them to patreon.com slash Chalun Minati pod.

There's a discord. There's posters. There's ad free episodes. There's the 15 minute extra bonus mini soaps that you guys love to see. You know, I got a crazy one. I'm going to talk about today. Some of you guys are going to call me an asshole. Who's crazy for suggesting is true. Okay. I'm now nervous about what I'm ready to. I'm ready to do it. Do we need to censor this? No, I'm not going to get canceled today, but if you want to find out what I'm talking about, head over to patreon.com slash Chalun Minati pod today. Please, please do. And also, we're almost out of 8000. You push us over that. And we're under 100 from a thousand patrons. That would be awesome if we could do that.

So the road to a thousand, you guys, the road to it. We're here. The road to a thousand. Finally. Honestly, I don't know why I took that from your hands, Alex. This is a day dedicated to you. Guys, I got to tell you, I'm honored to bring this story to you. I want an asshole. Oh, is this too early? Yeah, we're not the mini soda yet. That's the mini soda. Okay. Yeah, I am. I am so honored. I am so honored about this story because this is one of those ones where you find it and then you go, oh, this is going to be a good one. Like this is one where I didn't have to like make any bullshit up to make it interesting. This is a great. This is a great one. I've been wanting to do it for a little bit of time,

but I decided to hold off for a very specific reason. Now that it's here, I'm very excited because I'm pretty sure a lot of people haven't heard about this one before. And it's kind of just like its own neat, little paranormal tale. I can see there being a movie about this with this premise, right? Okay. This is a hell of a build up, Alex. I have to give it to you. I'm just, it's just great. Like, okay, here's how this whole thing started. Like a month or two ago, Jesse and I played through a game over on Scary Game Squad with Gerard and Davis from Coconut Grove. And that game was called Little Hope, by the way. And by the end, I wasn't the biggest fan of the actual game, but I got really caught up in the like major

paranormal mechanic of the story, which was like characters from the modern world, like sort of like having like not quite visions, not quite time travel moments with like characters from hundreds of years ago in this like Salem-esque witch trial type area. And while spoilers for the game, it turned out that none of that was real. And it was just a crazy ass bus driver working out his family fire grief. Something about it stuck with me because I, it felt familiar to me, you know? And as you know, I stay up late all the time watching weird videos online and just sort of like vibing out to like whatever weird things the algorithm sends my way. And as it happens, playing through Little Hope like shook loose this memory of me

in my dorm room in the early 20s. And I spent like a week or two looking for this video because I couldn't- Wait, what? It was this memory that I had of seeing- You mean the early 2000s? What? I mean, I think early 20s like his age? Oh, I thought you might like- The morning 20s? You about to tell us the premise of today's episode is I was alive in 1920. I remembered that I was alive. Oh, my. And I might also call you an asshole for that, for keeping that secret for so long. Yeah, like how dare you keep a time traveler? Can you imagine if 92 episodes in, I just revealed that I had like one of those like, I am paranormal myself. You were the Highlander? I've been alive for a thousand years. If that's

what you dropped on us, I'd be like, that's just unfair. That's just not even fair. You wouldn't- Hopefully you wouldn't have to be ahead your other ones. You just like, you guys sit down trying to smoke each other out. Yeah, by the time the joint is done, the other one of me has just disappeared and I've absorbed him again. Right. No, but it was just a video that I watched like 10 years ago or something that had like a similar sort of like mechanic. And I was like, what the fuck was that? And I looked for it for weeks and I finally found it. And it was an episode of a show you probably have not heard of, but you may have heard of, which I love. And it's kind of like a nineties mix between unsolved mysteries and ghost adventures.

And it's from the UK. And it was called Out of This World. And it was hosted by Carol Vorderman from Countdown. And so I found that episode of that show that I was looking for. And then after that, I went on a sort of journey to try and find this book that was written by the people from the episode who this happened to. But apparently, a podcast that an episode on this or something one time. And now the books are like $600 to $1,000, $2,000. So fuck that shit. I one day wish to wield such power. Well, dude, be able to mention a book and make the prices of such rare ones. That's what happened. Out of print books. That's what I want. We got to get that brand deal with the Boston Big Bean Company.

Dude, oh, that'd be so sick. Bring them back in the big beans or that crappy candy. That really awful candy. The very bad candy. The candy's pretty good. I like the candy. The candy's okay. You're Boston Big Bean. Chill. He's the Boston Big Bean boy. Mary Janes are also great candies. Are you serious? Have you ever had a Mary Jane? Are you literally telling me that your two favorite candies are the Boston Baked Beans and Mary Janes? I wouldn't say. OK, so I wouldn't say the Boston Baked Bean is one of my favorite candies, but I enjoy it. The Mary Jane is really out there. Is this a wheat joke? Are we? What is happening? Mary Jane?

What? You've never heard? Am I crazy and thinking that's the wrong? Oh my God, am I wrong in the candy name? No, you're absolutely right. I don't think that they're good candies. Is this like some like old timey, like circus? Definitely an old person candy. It's like a hard caramel-y type. You know how if you go to a 7-Eleven or some sort of gas station, you go down that candy aisle and you have all the name brand candies right on like eye level. And if you look right down near the floor, where the good stuff is, there's all those candies where it's like the blue sharks, the peach rays. Yeah, all that stuff down there. That's where you find these.

Down at the very bottom. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Legacy candies we call them. Grandfathered in. Usually, licorice flavored. Mary Janes, right. Right. I thought that was a shoe. I thought that was a shoe. I don't know. I'm tripping out. Anyway, there was supposed to be a Kindle version of this book that was out for like £5.50. It's the only price point that I found for it anywhere. But if there ever was that, it is gone now, does not exist. I just want to jump in. Alex, there is a shoe called Mary Janes. It's a variety of shoe. Yeah. Then I'm at least somewhere in my brain is working. Like somebody was made happy by what I said. I'm not sure that Mathis knows what he's talking about. Yeah, no. Mary Janes candy is just Bitto honey is what it is.

Bitto honey. Yeah, same thing. Yeah. Mary Janes. I should have called it Bitto honey. It's like that's the kind that your grandma makes in her kitchen after church kind of deal. I mean, yeah, Mary Janes candy. It even looks like it's from 1922. I know Bitto honey. So, yeah, but they got it right the first time. Bitto honey are all right. I like them. Okay. I love them. Oh, I kind of want a bag now. I'm sure you can find them at your local ghost haunted house. Shout out to oldtimecandy.com. They have all the old time candies. A very valuable website. I went to go look and see if they had any Mary Janes in stock. All the Mary Janes, all of them out of stock. However, that's what I'm saying. However, they do have a lot of candy cigarettes.

Like, oh my God, candy cigarettes are so gross. Do they have the gum ones? The really bad gum ones with the chalky. All right. All right. All right. So I couldn't find the book. So I had to base this version of the story, not just off the TV episode, but also like a bunch of different like blogs and online summaries that told their sort of like summaries of the story told in the book. And some of those have quotes. So I've got all the stuff that I normally have. But I'll give you the links for those in the subreddit after the fact, as well as I used a much shorter version of the story, which I found in another book, which was an anthology called Haunted Cheshire by Tom Slemon. But

that's all I got on background. Now it's time to settle in, kick back, relax for story time. Mathis and Jesse, make sure you got some microchips and dip on hand, if you will. I wish I did have food. I'm so hungry talking about me because today we're jumping into the world of early personal computing. Okay. So I want you to that's how I'm going to introduce this story. It's it's a good microchip joke. A little microchip joke to you guys. A little preschool style joke. Yeah. But first, let's talk about the first character we need to meet in our story, a man who for now we will just call Ken. Ken was a economics teacher at Hardin High School in Hardin. And I want to just point out that this is like a place called

H-A-W-A-R-D-E-N and it's in England. So that's I'm going to guess it's called Hardin High School. But he actually lived about 10 miles to the southeast of there in an old historical brick building, which was called Meadow Cottage, which was in the tiny little village of Doddleston. And at the time in the fall of 1984, he was in the middle of restoring the building for the winter. So, you know, a historical cottage. So he's, you know, every once in a while, you got to strip it down, fix it up, make sure it's up to code, etc. And at this point in time, it's fall. So the work is almost already done because he's got to be ready for the winter because it gets cold. And it was kind of an austere place, very empty, blank walls, some exposed red brick

pillars around. But that didn't mean diddly to Ken or either of his two housemates, one of which being his girlfriend Debbie and the other being an English teaching colleague of his called Nicola, who was currently sleeping in the spare room slash band rehearsal zone that he had because he was still he was a teacher, he's an economics teacher, but he was still like a pretty young dude. He liked to hang out and play music with the buds. And Nicola was staying with them because she was Debbie's friend, and she had just gotten back from three months teaching abroad in Africa. So she was just looking for a place to crash for a little bit. And she was kind of just like couch surfing. So that's that's that's how they how she comes to the picture.

And it was probably really quiet and quaint and beautiful in this house at this time. But that didn't last for long, because that August, just as they were getting ready to get the house painted, came the first of many strange occurrences that would come to dominate the lives of these people and more for literally years to come. Okay. At first things started slow, like you might expect with a story with this type of setup on one of the newly blank walls on the far end of the house by the bathroom. Nobody noticed exactly when but a strange set of size five footprints appeared looking like whatever left them there just sort of like walked straight up the wall, as it were. But it was weird because they weren't like shoe footprints. They were like feet feet

footprints. And also, more importantly, it looks like maybe it had a sixth toe. So just something just like regularly or like on the heel of the foot. I don't think it was a heel of the foot type. No, no, no. Think about that like extra toe back there. No, then that might be like, oh, that's some sort of eight creature. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, it's like a Warcraft troll. It's like if you had two big toes, like one on each side kind of vibes. Gotcha. But they weren't really well defined enough to be something that's like super freaky. Just something that they kind of saw and noted and they were just sort of like, huh, that's weird. And then he decided, well, I've got I got to paint him anyway. He's got to paint the wall.

So he decided paint him move on with his life until you guys want to guess what happened next. Oh, with this story. To see footprints on the ceiling. Yes. Footprints came back even clearer this time, identically shaped marks, exact same weird six toe foot exact same spot on the wall, but like fresh now, like as if almost like, you know, when like a cat knocks over a bucket of paint and then runs over some shit with it. That's that that was the vibe now. And then he painted over them again. And the second time they didn't come back. So that was put to bed. But if you think that means nothing else weird happened to these people,

you would be wrong about that because as time went on, footprints didn't show up anywhere else. And for a second, Ken and Debbie and Nicola thought they'd finally be able to relax and enjoy their winter cottage life. But then whatever was happening in their cabin seemed to like almost like turn it up a notch. And pretty soon we started getting into the territory of what most people would call like poltergeist activity, right? Pepsi bottles, cups, chairs, little bits and bobs from around the kitchen started to like arrange themselves into little pyramids stacked all over the house and places. Things like, OK, that's that's very, very classic poltergeist. Yeah, always while nobody's looking. And as I said before, Ken is like a band dude. So people

would come in and out from here, you know, from time to time. And so his first reaction wasn't like, oh, fuck, there's ghosts. His first reaction was just like, oh, man, somebody's probably fucking with me, right? Just because that's the type of friends he had. And he, you know, that's like the type, you know, some like Occam's razor type shit. So he didn't even really consider the footprints and the stacking could be connected originally. Instead, he was just like, just my pals mess with me, you know, all good. No big deal. Yeah, just my buds. A normal reaction. I would be annoyed if somebody did this to me in my house, especially if they came over to play music and like stacked my furniture against the wall. But that's neither here nor there. I don't know why

he had never confronted them about this. But that that oh, well, vibe didn't last very long, because pretty soon as the item started to get larger and the stack started getting more and more ambitious and bizarre, like the one and out of this world was like straight out of Poltergeist the movie, like things balancing impossibly precariously. I don't know how true that was, but that's what it looks like in the show. And so Ken got to the point now where every night, he was constantly getting up to check and see if his doors were locked, because in his mind, if he's wrong, and these weren't his friends that were doing this. So yeah, somebody's breathing.

Yeah, his only other conceivable thought is somebody's fucking with me. Like somebody's like doing some weird shit, like stalker shit behavior to me. And the idea that this is happening while they're just like nipping out for like a drink at the pub and coming back. And somebody's like going in and like doing these weird calculated things was sort of like vibing him out in a bad way. And he was worried that maybe he was going to get robbed or somebody was going to get hurt next. But nevertheless, life did go on for the three haunted roommates and slowly but surely the house became a home. They got it painted. They put nice little things up all around and settled into a rhythm with the whole situation

with the stacking, which never abated, never, ever, ever. And eventually it just sort of became a thing that was like a weird annoyance to them that like they just dealt with it. They thought of it as inconvenient. Nobody was like, what is causing this anymore? It just became part of daily life for them, which is really, really weird. And the people of Metal Cottage, despite everything, were sort of able to focus inward on themselves again. And while Ken kept busy teaching, Nicola was starting to get a little disillusioned with her life. And she and Debbie started to get the bug for some more like creative theatrical pursuits. Mentioned various times they wanted to write comedy sketches specifically, which is interesting.

And so since Ken was a good boyfriend and a good roommate, every Friday when he got off work, what he would do is he would go to his school's like tech pool lab center, whatever, check out a 1982 BBC Model B microcomputer, which is like early micro personal computer type computer. And he would set it up in his kitchen for the girls to work on at the table, right? And just in case you're one of those people like me who can't really imagine what a computer was like in 1984, before we go any further, I'm just going to give you a quick rundown on this baby. So this thing was like a big beige box with a black monitor with a green text kind of vibe, like one color and the colors green. It ran on 32 kilobytes of RAM. It had a two megahertz CPU.

And it had a huge drive on the side that was about as big as the monitor for reading like the big giant square, like cheese slice floppy disk, like the big boys. Yeah. Yeah, the big, big boys and they could hold 160 KBs a piece. And I even though that sounds like nothing that sounds like nothing, it actually was helpful. Because another thing about the BBC microcomputer Model B was that the computer had zero on board memory. And it would completely wipe itself of all data any time it turned off, unless you had it saved on a disk. So this actually becomes important later in the story to what goes on. I'm excited. But most important of all was the main program that they use for their sketch writing and stuff, which was an extremely

simplistic word processor that nobody really remembers today, which was called Edward, which is spelled like the name Edward, except the word in Edward is spelled W-O-R-D, like a word processor. It's very futuristic. It's very good stuff. But anyway, we've went all the way now from August to December. They got this computer ritual that they're starting to do every week where he brings one home, they work on it. It's not the same computer every time, which is another key thing that's important to this. It was a totally different computer most of the time from a rotating pool of computers. And one day in December, all three of them headed out to chill with their buds because their neighbors got a VCR and it was like all the rage. So they

were like constantly going over there and watching movies. And they forgot when they left the house that they left the computer on when they walked out the door. And that night, when they returned, something happened, which nobody expected. They realized their mistake that they'd left the computer on and Ken went to turn it off. But before he hit the switch, he happened to look up at the screen. And when he did, he noticed something really weird because it looked like to Ken that somebody else had been using Edward while they were gone. And there was some text written on the screen in like weird kidnapper capitalized random letters style. And it was saved to the disk that was in there on the floppy drive as a file called KDN. And Mathis, if you would be so kind

as to read this file here. Here we go. Here we go. Ken, Debbie, Nick, true are the nightmares of a person that fears. Save are the bodies of the silent world. Turn pretty flowers, turn towards the sun, for you shall grow and so. But the flower reaches too high and withers. In the burning light, get out your bricks. Pussycat, pussycat went to London to seek fame and fortune. Faith must not be lost or this shall be your redeemer. Which sounds like gobbledygook altogether. Yeah, I'm going to be real in the context of the rest of what happens here. I'm not that clear on what this stuff might mean directly, since it's pretty cryptic. But I guess there's always the possibility that some of these things might be slightly misquoted from the book, because I've never seen

the book myself. But I doubt that's what's going on here. I think it's just very sort of vague compared to a lot of the other stuff that happens. But unfortunately, after this happened, they were like, what? But it was just too close to Christmas. And Nicola went home for the holidays and they just kind of brush it to the side for a while, forgot about it for a few months until February, when these still regular instances of stacked kitchen items, this is happening every couple days. They start to realize that it's starting to sort of center itself around this one big pillar in the kitchen that's made of this old hard red brick. And people start to get wigged out by that area of the house and work starting to get pretty stressful at school.

And the same thing happened again, where Ken both brought home the BBC computer to the kitchen, and all three of them went out to hang out with friends. And again, when they got back, there was another disk in the drive. And this time the file was called REIT in all caps, R-E-A-T-E. And this one I would love for Jesse to read for me. Why got to give me the weird one? Everybody's going to be reading weird ones, trust me. Of course, of course, of course. Oh my God. I write, spelled W-R-Y-T-E. A lot of this is spelled incorrectly in all caps. I write on behalf of Man-Manye, or maybe Manny, who knows, M-A-N-Y-E. What strange words thou speak, although I must confess that I have also been ill-schooled,

sometimes me thinks alter-casions are somewhat barful. For they break Man-Manye many asleep in my bed. Thou art goodly man, who hath fanciful woman, who dwell in mine home. I hath no want to affray, for on lay, on lie, sith mine half-witted antik, has ripped a twain mine bound, hath I been reft at night. I have seen many, I assume this has to be many, alter-casions, lastly charged house and thy home, tis a fitting place with lights which devil maketh, and costly things that only mine friend Edmund Gray can afford for the king himself. It was a great crime to hath bribed mine house. L-W. Pretty wild stuff. And suddenly, just like that, everybody started paying the fuck attention. Here's a quote from Ken, which I'll just read myself, which said,

Whatever it meant, whatever Debbie or Nick felt about it, it sang to me. It wasn't a coldness or dark apprehensiveness on this occasion. After the initial shock, I became absorbed by it. Now, Ken started going around showing the message to everyone that he knew, taking it around to his school, seeing if anybody had anything to add. And as it turned out, one of his fellow teachers, a guy whose name was Peter Trinder, was interested. And first, he straight up asked Ken if it was all fake or not because he didn't want to waste his time. It was all just some weird hoax joke thing. Because as it turned out, he found the writing really interesting. And he got a big old copy of the OED, the Oxford English Dictionary, and he cross-checked a bunch

of the weird words and phrases and language before he concluded that what they were looking at was a fairly authentic to the style and phrasing of early modern English sort of writing. And that he would try and use what he had to pinpoint it even further. So they're like, this is some early modern English this guy's writing to you in. It's not perfect. There's still some weirdness about it, but you kind of have to expect that from a real world sample a little bit. And a little while later, Ken and Debbie were having trouble deciding what to do and whether or not he should like play along with the message or not, like entertain it as if it's real. So he invited his other friend over, whose name was John. And together, they all came up with a response

to the message, which they saved on another disc and then just sort of like left on the screen while they went out for the night. So here's what they left on the screen. And this is for Mathis to read. Thanks. I love that I'm the normal, the normal language. Yeah, well, we'll see. Thank you. Yeah, we'll see what we're in the reign of Queen Elizabeth II. Dear LW, thank you for your message. We are sorry for disturbing you. What would you like us to do? Did you live in a house on this land about 1620? Do you want us to tell you more about our time? Why write a poem? Who is Edmund Gray? Is he related to the Edgerton family? Do you have a family? Is the King James or Charles or Charles Stewart? Is the King James? Yeah. Yeah. Well, what is the charge house?

Was this village called Dottleston in your life and how many families lived here? Thank you very much for your messages. Thank you for not making us afraid. Ken, Debbie and John. And pretty quickly, we got a little response from LW. And this one's for Jesse to read. It was an honest farm of oak and stone. It is helpful. The you should tell me about thy time. Dost thou hath horse? Edmund Gray, brother of John Gray lives at Kinnerton Hall. The king, of course, is Henry the Eighth, who is six and forty, a new Nahuat of King James. Mine Charge House is a place of lore. LW, 28th March, Anno, 1521. See, this is interesting to me because I think we've even brought it up before. The idea that

hauntings might not be hauntings and that they might be like a collision of time. And that you think something is a ghost, but that they that means they on the other side are having weird messages and weird things and they might think it's like something else. Yes, there's some. Forget what the name of the famous ship is. It's like the Mary something. Yeah, it might be that's a famous haunted ship. And that was another theory that people had brought up is that because they had a recorded encounter of what was a ghost. But the voice on the other side sounded confused, like, hello, who's there? And it almost sounded like maybe they were doing their own thing and they were talking back. Yeah, very, very interesting stuff. That's the

stuff that's really interesting to me. Right. And basically now they sort of have this back and forth going on. But the problem was this LW guy seemed to have a lot of his most basic facts wrong, like he got the king's age wrong for the year. And Kinnerton Hall was being mentioned a hundred years too early. And there's no record of any John Gray living there or his brother Edmund. And Ken was just sort of stuck between his feeling that this was real, because it's such an inexplicable thing to witness. And the thought that maybe somebody is doing this to him and like weirdly bullying him. And now it's getting like super crazy. If you can like imagine this happening to you and you not knowing why it's happening, it's probably feels pretty weird because it's

such a strange thing. But this didn't deter him. And now at this point, Ken is literally just borrowing this computer, like a different computer. And again, every time you turn it off, it wipes its memory. So he's borrowing computer after computer every week just for the express purpose of exchanging messages with LW, Nicola and Debbie out the window. Nicola just kind of fades out of the story eventually. But now they're going back and forth, swapping details about each other's lives. LW sends him like a recipe for some cheeses. He tells him about his dead wife that he had. And if you didn't pick it up already from what he referred to the house as mine house, he was just as disturbed about what was going on as Ken and Debbie were, except

it was his house that it was happening to. And so what they sort of pieced together was that they were both sort of occupying the same space and that the computer was almost like present in his world there. Like letters in the same in the same place that it is in in in Ken's house. But I'm going to go a little bit off my script here because I learned this a little bit later down the line. But something that they don't mention till much later in the story is that on LW side, he's not really manipulating the computer. He's just sort of like thinking towards it and it's doing what he wants. It's something that they sort of establish and there'll be a little bit more justification for

that later in the story. But like, just because I know that's probably something that's like sort of niggling at your mind a little bit, like he's in his experience of this, he can think to the computer and he can also bring other people to the computer to think to the computer. So that's weird. See, I imagine it would have been like he's getting mysterious like writings on a letter and then he would write back. Yeah. And meanwhile, they're also testing a lot more of these facts and figures that LW would share in his messages to cross check with anything they can dig up, even though at first he was super wrong. And while a lot of the stuff was helpful, we go back to Peter Trinder, the OED guy who begins to think he recognizes LW's accent as

something from the West country. And he requests that in his next message to him that Ken mentioned Bristol, you know, the place in England. And when LW wrote back, LW said he actually was from Bristol and that his name was not just LW, it was Lucas with a K, Wainman, Lucas Wainman, which they immediately jumped on as a great way of finding out whether or not he was real. Because now they had his name and there was still the matter of all these historical inconsistencies and some of the words used. And while a lot of them were technically correct, they're starting to find sometimes he's off by using a word that's like 100 years old or 200 years old. Interesting. It's, you know, still something that would exist at that time that maybe he could

draw from. I do this all the time in my like weird way of talking as if anybody who knows me, who texts me, right? Like I definitely talk in a weird way sometimes, but like it didn't feel super good. But according to Peter Trinder and all the research that he did, he still maintained that for someone to go through as much trouble as they would have to do this, even as accurately as they were doing and also responding to the questions in the things that that Ken was asking, it would take too long. Like you can't go out for an hour and come back and have like a perfectly researched 16th century piece of writing, because again, it's 84. There's no internet. There's no way to like get examples at hand

quickly and do this. And you know, that's just sort of the thing that he was sort of using as his sort of evidence that this was something we're thinking about. And they were also having a lot of trouble with the names, because obviously a lot of, a lot of people that you mentioned might not be important enough to make it into a book at this time, because it's the 16th century. But for so many people to be fake, even big rich people like Edmond Gray didn't bode too well. But rather than decide it was some sort of hoax right away, these messages coupled with the still regular stacking of objects, which is still happening this whole time. And it's now getting so disturbing to Ken and Debbie that they literally started

renting out another house that was cheaper so they could sleep somewhere quiet without having to worry about somebody like sneaking in and fucking with their house or whatever the hell was going on. Safety concerns. Yeah. But Ken and Lucas just kept writing back and forth to each other, slowly they kind of have a relationship that they build, they become more like friends style relationship. And while Ken and Debbie were still going through all their own shit over this insane situation on Lucas's side of things, it's going very similarly. And he also wrote about how his servant would always come ask him if he's okay, because he's worried that he's acting crazy. And that he made Ken and Debbie up and that there's some kind of weird like imaginary friend

flight of fancy that he's got, because apparently only Lucas could see the computer, but he could like teach people how to use it and how to think towards it. And as Peter kept confirming and translating a lot of the language, Ken and Debbie kind of started to drink the Kool-Aid a little bit more and especially messages as they started to come more and more frequently, like sometimes like a couple times back and forth really quickly, it started to break down the idea that somebody was elaborately going through some sort of process to hoax them. It started to become too unbelievable that somebody could do this in real life for them. And they were starting to just believe, you know what, like this is, you know, whatever we're doing here, we're just going to

assume we're talking to some fucking 16th century people. And then things start becoming a little more complex. The mechanics of what's going on. After talking a little bit about modern technology with Lucas and more specifically the idea of cars, Ken decided to do an experiment where he took a clipping of a Jaguar XJ Coupe from a magazine and left it on the keyboard. And when he left, and when he came back this time, there was a message that confirmed his theory that he was actually able to like see the, see the clipping. And here's, here's what he said about it. Visit for Jesse to read. My goodly friend, I have found thy cart portraying but it is a crude thing for without

mine a horse, it shall not go far. Yeah. So basically Lucas is just talking shit on his car saying that it doesn't look like that's not going to go anywhere without a horse, you nerd. Yeah, exactly. And basically, yeah, it seemed like they realized that they could leave things close enough to the computer that Lucas could see and interact with them. And when Ken came back to look at it again with the response message, the photo of the, of the car that he pulled from the magazine had gotten like brittle and crispy around the edges. And after sharing a few more weird recipes for things and stuff and like basically like doing DMs with each other, they were able to get a few more key pieces of information out of him, basically that he studied

somewhere in Oxford called Jesus College. He got, they got the names of a bunch of books and stuff that he'd studied and read some quotes of Latin, the name of the local sheriff, which they could all reference. And also the message has started coming at times that would be much riskier for a hoaxer to leave them like at times when people were at home sleeping instead of out for the night. Right. So if it really was somebody just messing around, they were starting to get pretty bold. And at this time, they started to hear new footsteps on the kitchen roof. And every time they went to go look and see what they were, they could never find anything about it, but it started to be a real, real deal. You know, that was really trying to freak them out.

But then Peter came back with more information and he was saying most of the stuff that Lucas was saying was impossible or unbelievable because of how inaccurate it was. Jesus College wasn't founded until 30 years after Lucas said he went there. His supposed Latin he claimed to have learned was kind of crappy, sort of piddling Latin. But rather than give up the game right away, Ken and Peter decided it would be more beneficial to lead him on a bit because if this was somebody who was fake, you know, they were just trying to tease it out and see if they could figure it out. But surprisingly, at this point, it was actually Lucas who called them out. And Jesse, here's another quote from Lucas, though, for clarity's sake, now we're going to start using

Peter's translations of what he was saying so that you can like actually comprehend them. Great. So here we go. My friend pray, what strange demon are you? I'm so confused. You are goodly, I feel, but your lies frighten me much. You said you were alive, but this is not so. I have no wish to accuse you, but you said also that you are an educated man and that you know of my friend Erasmus, but you do not mention my misspelled words. If you were alive, you would say you know not of Jesus College. It is not I that make you afraid. It is you that makes me afraid. Yeah. So the whole time he's like trying to do the same thing to them, being like, oh, yeah. So Lucas has been testing

them and he's been trying to catch them out. And Ken has been doing the same thing to Lucas and giving them. And so he's saying he's been giving him fake facts to see if he'll play along with it or not, to see if he's actually somebody from the world who can check facts. Right. And because you got to imagine if it's 1520 for all Lucas knows, Ken is like a demon or a devil from hell who's trying to corrupt him. So it's funny you say that because in my mind, I'm like, well, what because they're getting weird footprints with six toes? What if it's some weird other entity fucking with them and just not knowing his own information? That is a very interesting idea. Turned out Lucas actually, actually, according to Lucas, he actually studied at a

place called Brazenose College. And that was some real information under his belt. Peter suggested Ken bringing a group called the SPR, or you might recognize them as the Society for Psychical Research. Yeah. Oh, we brought them up. Last round since at least Victorian times, they look into catalog and possibly debunk all sorts of strange paranormal stuff by looking at it through a scientific lens, which was just as well, because it, you know, we also have all this go stuff going on. And then Debbie starts to have some crazy things happen to her. And here's actually a quote from Debbie about some particularly creepy stuff that happened around this time. And this is for Mathis to read here. I'll just give it to you to read. Oh, did we not heard? What did I do wrong here?

Oh, it might be too big. Is that possible? Oh, yeah, it could be here. You have me on discord, right? I'll put you, I put on Twitter for you. All right, it works too. All right, here we go. As soon as it loads, there we go. All right. On this night, the disturbance manifested itself as small tapping noises on the door to the kitchen, which I kept bolted when I was alone. It made me edgy, but I put some music on and they seemed to disappear. When all was quiet, I took a look under under the four into the kitchen to check if the coast was clear in the hope that I could go and make a coffee. Sure, that all seemed clear. I put the main light on brazenly barged into the kitchen and made a

drink. No problem. I came back into the lounge and sat down with the coffee. At that instant, I felt a prickly coldness against my left side of the face of my face and neck and something pulled at my hair. I thought it was my collar at first until it persisted another four times when I then stopped. It happened so quickly, I wasn't sure what to think until a few seconds later, I felt a slight pressure gripping my shoulder that was unbearable. I knew someone was to the left of me, but could not see at the corner of my eye. I turned around and nothing was there. I ran outside the house and waited for Kendra to turn. The cold damp rain didn't bother me as much as the house. Yeah. It's about this time in the episode of Out of This World that I was

watching. It's actually a two parter, so you have to catch the end of one episode and then they follow it like unsolved mystery style. Sure. It seems like they take some pretty extreme license with the story at this point. In the summary that I have that covers this part of the story, which only one summary really does, it simply says that Debbie starts to obsess over Lucas so much in her daily life that she begins having dreams about him. That's all it says. But in the TV show, not only does she dream about him, but she like dreams that she travels back to be with him in his own time and that they like bear their souls to each other and like kiss and stuff. Oh my God, she has, she's living her own fanfic in her head like I did with my anime waifus.

I was a teenager. Now, like I said, I haven't read, I haven't read the actual book. It's the same thing, it's the same thing, Jesse. Don't me, hang on, Alex, this is important. It's the same thing, Alex, Jesse. No, it is. You know what? You're right. It's sad in both cases. Thank you. Thank you very much. You may continue, Alex. I haven't read the book, so I don't know how true it is. But in the show also, when he's talking, when Lucas is talking to Ken again later, he's like, I saw your wife. She is so beautiful. Like it is like, it is like part of this story in the show at least that she like dreamed that she met him and then he says that he met her and they kissed. But I don't know if it's real. But either way, the next morning when she woke

up from whatever she was actually dreaming about, near that exposed brick pillar that I was talking about earlier where everything was sort of like starting to coalesce around, they found Lucas had written his name on the floor in chalk and this freak Debbie out so much that she basically stopped sleeping at that house altogether and just stayed at the other rental place pretty much full time. And now the SPR are here to investigate everything. Maybe they're going to kind of settle this once and for all. Everybody's really excited. And the first thing they do is they ask Ken and Debbie to have family members over to stay with them who can like track their activities and be with them the whole time they're there and swear affidavits to they're not writing

the notes themselves. So they do that and Debbie's brother and her mom come by and stay for the whole weekend and they set up the computer and they leave it in the kitchen and Ken goes out to drink and Debbie and her family chill in the living room together for the whole time. And here's a quote from Debbie's mom about that time for Jesse to read. So I'm going to just drop that here in the chat for you. Oh, I can't. It's too big. So you got to go to Twitter to Twitter. Easy peasy. This is the mother-in-law. Yeah. This is Debbie's mom. Oh, all right. My son and I are she British? She's got to be.

A few minutes later, a friend of Mr. Webster is called at the front door for something. After a few words were exchanged between my daughter and the caller we left. He left and we three, my daughter Debbie, my son and myself went into the kitchen. We checked the windows and the doors in the kitchen and bathroom. The back door was locked with the chain on the inside. The windows were closed including the skylights though we did not have time to check if they were locked. We then gave all attention to the computer or previous entries on the disk were inspected. Debbie typed a few lines on the screen as far as we knew there was nothing entered after that. I felt cold at times and at one stage was shivering. We all kept our coats on as

there was no fire on the hearth. We went to the kitchen again at 9pm and we saw a new entry displayed starting with a poem. We were short on time and I was unable to understand all that was entered at the time but didn't manage to read and understand one or two lines. We then left the cottage. So even with family witnesses there, they were able to produce the effect of the writing appearing on the screen. Nobody coming into the house, nothing going on and then after they had family members do it because I know you're thinking well the mom could be in on it. Just to prove there was no family funny business. Next they get a man called Frank Davies who's just the mechanics teacher at Ken's high school that he teaches at to come and be an even more impartial

witness and here is what he saw and this is going to be for Mathis to read and this time it's going to let me put it in the chat because it's not it's long of a little thing. Excellent. At 8pm a noticeable drop in temperature occurred which lasted some two or three minutes. The coldness did not seem to be due to any air movement so there must have been some as the fire was burning gently in the grate. After a few minutes the room temperature became comfortably normal again. On returning to the kitchen we observed a new message on the computer. The message was from someone calling themselves John and it told us that the sheriff had put Lucas in prison apparently for communicating with us. Debbie appeared genuinely concerned at this turn of events.

And so that's happened and meanwhile all this time that guy Peter Trinder who has been hitting the books down at Brazenose College where Lucas said he went trying to try his best to find anything he can about Lucas Weynman and he's coming up totally empty-handed and frustrated over and over no record of anybody ever attending the school with that name. But then a couple of weeks before this in a communication on April 4th where basically Lucas is also letting a friend of his include a message on the BBC for Ken and Debbie. One sentence blows the whole thing wide open and I'm just going to read it myself because it's that much of a twist. The fashion of our time is such that I will not give my own name nor Lucas's true description and name. And if that's true

then that means that once again they were looking for the wrong thing in the wrong place because Lucas isn't really this dude's name. It's just they all give fake names because they don't know they don't want to tell anybody. They're afraid of the talking to a demon or something like that. Because if you have your name if you have their name it's bad you know right. So now look at where all these people have found themselves. Not only do they have no idea who Lucas really is anymore but whoever he is he's also apparently just been arrested by the sheriff for communicating with evil spirits. And so then Ken gets back in contact with this dude John who told him about the sheriff thing. And he tells the sheriff let Lucas come use the box again and Lucas will show you how he

sends messages all the way to 1985. He's like go tell the sheriff that. And so the sheriff says all right. So Lucas comes back and in the message that he writes back he drops the next bombshell and this one I'm keeping in old timey speak and that's for Jesse to read. It's just one little sentence. Here you go. Yeah. I guess this is you. But yeah. I'll said your time be 1985. Me thought y'all were alls from twenty one oh nine like your friend whom did spring limbs voiced pray. Yeah. So just in case you didn't understand that let me lay it out for you. Lucas when he hears there in the year 1985 is actually surprised to hear that they're from the year 1985 because apparently he's also talking and has been from the beginning to someone from the year two thousand

one hundred and nine twenty one oh nine. And he just assumed that that's when Ken and Debbie were from to and that they also knew this third person. Right. So that is an interesting development. And so Ken faced with no other option because almost nobody believes him decides to write a message which he titled on the disk as calling twenty one oh nine. And sure enough he gets a response. Oh my God. Which math is happening right now. I'm like all in on this. So I'm prepped for disappointment at the end when you tell me how this was all fair. Ready. All right. Here we go. OK. Ken. Deb. Peter. We are sorry that we can give you only two choices. One. They either have your predicament explained in such a non rhyme way that you may have instant understanding but cause

what should not what should not be because what should not be to happen. Or two. Try to understand that you three have a purpose that you shall in your lifetime change the face of history. We twenty one oh nine must not affect your thoughts directly but give you some sort of guidance that will allow room for your own destiny. All we can say is that we are part of the same God. Whatever he it is. And that is the surprise end of the Dottleston messages. Part one. Oh we're going to part two. That's right. It's another part all about twenty one oh nine. More from that next time the end of this insane story next time. And so I implore you to do yourselves a favor. Fascinating. This is fascinating. How dare you do this to us.

I'm you know what I knew I brought you into this business for a reason. Please can I just going into this before we go in this episode of stuff. What's fascinating to me is if this you know obviously you throw with a grain of salt all this is true. You just assume all this is true. Does that mean like time is a loop in that time. Like there is fate and there is like I think you're right off. I think there's going to be a dude living in the house like a guy in the house. He's going to be he's just messing with them and he's like I'm telling you I'm telling you it's going to be a payoff for it's like his name was John George and he lived in the he lived in that pillar. He lived in that pillar and he stood still for 12 hours a day every

day while he was away. I'm telling you. I mean I'm assuming it's going to go more in that direction but saying like just making the fun assumption hypothetically this is true. It just throws in a question time itself and all that. The fact that that's how broad our possible explanations are for what's going on here and that I know the answer already is very exciting to me but it also makes me want to implore you if you're a good listener of Chiluminati to not Google this until next week. Please don't look up how the story results because I promise I promise promise promise that it's going to have at least a few more surprises in it for you. It's a very fascinating story and I can't

wait to share with you the rest of what happens. This might be your best cliffhanger yet. It's a pretty good one. I'm always working hard to get those cliffhangers right. It's pretty damn good. Well on that we have to go do a mini-sode for Patreon so if you want to hear any more of us babbling immediately after this. So upset. So upset. That's it for us. Oh if and if you've been enjoying that please leave us a review. It goes a long way to helping out the podcast just reaching other people's ears which we continue to do because for some reason people keep enjoying this stuff. So it goes a long long way. That's it for us. We will see you all next week. Thank you so much for listening. Goodbye. Me and my wife were sitting outside indulging

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