Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 93 - The Time Traveling Ghost Detective Part 2 FINALE

Episode Date: March 24, 2021

A mysterious tale of poltergeist hauntings, and GREAT SCOT TIME TRAVEL? Patreon - http://www.patreon.com/chilluminatipod BUY OUR MERCH - http://www.theyetee.com/collections/chilluminati Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - http://www.youtube.com/user/ThatOneLazerClown Art Commissioned by - http://www.mollyheadycarroll.com Theme - Matt Proft End song - POWER FAILURE - https://soundcloud.com/powerfailure Video - http://www.twitter.com/digitalmuppet

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Rev it up at Toyota.com. Toyota, let's go places. Listen, now that we're coming up on a year of this quote-unquote new normal, it sometimes feels like we'll never get our old lives back. The uncertainty of not knowing when this will end is frustrating, and let's be honest with ourselves, just a little scary. I miss my old routines, and I really miss being able to see my friends and family whenever I want. I'm pretty sure the delivery guy for my food is thinking that he's my best friend.

Every time he knocks on the door, I just pour my heart out to him. And now more than ever, therapy is a way to find our way out when things feel especially dark. Just talking through my fears and anxiety makes me breathe easier and feel hope again. And not with the food delivery guy with my therapist. That's why I wholeheartedly recommend Talkspace for therapy. You can sign up online and start therapy the same day as you sign up. You can text, video, or send voice messages to your licensed therapist. So it's incredibly convenient to have virtual sessions for the comfort of your home.

And for me, therapy has truly got me through some of the hardest parts of the past year. Moreover, it's affordable. Talkspace is a fraction of the cost of in-person therapy. And instead of waiting for an appointment, you can send unlimited messages to your therapist 24-7 and they'll engage with you daily five days a week. As a listener of this podcast, you'll get $100 off your first month with Talkspace. To match with a licensed therapist today, go to Talkspace.com or download the app. Make sure you use the code CHILL though to get $100 off of your first month

and showing your support for the show. That's CHILL at Talkspace.com. Again, code CHILL, C-H-I-L-L, at Talkspace.com. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Chilluminati Podcast, Episode 93. Babinga! Weren't we just on, like, 80-something? No, last week you were somehow confused even less. You were like, 92? Are you kidding me?

You guys not inviting me for some episodes? I feel like we just keep skipping numbers. There was one episode you were not a part of. When was this? Technically, Episode 4. It was Episode 3.5. Yeah. Me and Alex did something because you were traveling at the time. I read a book into the microphone, basically, from the 70s. I vaguely remember.

It was a long time ago. Back when I was 15 years old and we just started the show. I can't believe we're on Episode 4. I'm like, oh, my God! Yeah, man. We are now, February 3rd, 2018, was when we started. Yeah. And if you don't want our end to come anytime soon, please head over to patreon.com.

where you can support the show yourself. You get access to all kinds of stuff, not to mention ad-free episodes, not to mention mini-sodes every single goddamn time. You can't believe it, guys. It's my favorite website of all time. It does so much for me in my life. Specifically, I'm sure Mathis and Jesse agree that we love it when you go there and you do stuff on that site.

So please do that. We'll keep the show coming out every week forever and maybe some new shit. You know, who knows? I got the vaccine. You know what I'm saying? Yo, say it. You don't know. One of two, baby.

I'm ready. Yeah, let's go. I hate you all. I may be getting mine on Thursday. That's what I'm saying. You don't know what's next. Who knows? Babies.

We can actually hang. Look, I'm not saying this because I'm not saying this, but I'm already like trying to find out if it's possible to do live shows again at the end of the year. Like, that's where my mind is. I'm like, can this happen? Are we like... Once you have efficacy, baby.

Once you got that efficacy. Do you think? I'm making you some eggs. Do you think? I'm going to serve them to you. I can't wait. Like, I don't like hang out in October. I'll come do a Halloween show again.

Like, that'd be crazy. I'll let you come spit in my mouth. I mean... Like the old days? Yeah. Just like the old days. That's exactly how I remember hanging out with all of you. All of our live shows were like, you walk in, spit in Alex's mouth, get a beer.

I take a knee in your piss and shit and walk back on stage. I get drunk way too fast. That was... I can't believe we made it through that show. People at the end, I was like, they were like, that was the greatest show I've ever seen. I was like, I'm glad to be part of your first ever show. Yeah, exactly. Anyway, we're all very excited about the future for once in a goddamn time.

Do you guys want to find out what happened in the story of the Dottleston Messages? Yes. All the weak people have been like, do you know what's going on? I'm like, no. I have literally hours before we recorded this. I got a message that was like, do you know what the next episode is going to be like? I couldn't tell you. I should have just called it the Dottleston reports, but I called it the time traveling ghost detective.

I think you sold it just great. And the best part was that on the fold on YouTube, it just says the time traveling ghost. And it's like, that's also right. That is also correct. Yeah. And more than you even realize. Oh, please. I'm so ready to be either disappointed or mystified for the rest of my life.

Aren't we all? So, hey, I told Mathis this a second ago, but Jesse, you're going to want to pull up your Twitter DMs today just because we got some chunky boys. So I'm going to drop. All right. I was like, what do you know? Is it going to be like? No.

No. My name is Gregory. And this is going to be like from 16. He's like, he's going to be like, you're going to betray the group. Okay. Listen, listen. Yes. If you were going to die, but you're going to be wildly successful afterward.

It's going to be fine. That's the message I got. I'd be like, yeah, guys, I'm really excited for this podcast. Like, let's keep going. The minute Jesse decides he's all in and takes over as the host host and like leads every topic every week, we know we're welcome. I believe it's, it's, it's the, that's the key. Once Jesse believes in something, something's wrong.

He's going to get us off the show. He's going to start selling like brain pills and shit. It's going to be fucking wild. All right. So let's just get into it. Last time on the show, we had a weird 80s British version of that Keanu Reeves, Sandra Bullock movie, The Lake House, except Keanu, the architect from two years ago, is replaced by a super paranoid dude from the 1500s.

Wait, I think I actually, like, I know I haven't seen a lot of movies. It's a beautiful time traveling romance. It's called The Lake House. They reunited for the first time since speed. It was wonderful. I think I saw that movie. Wonderful is a relative term. I worked a blockbuster video for like six years.

So I saw like every movie for a while. I don't know. It was good. I had to watch like five a week. Anyway, this guy might not be able to spell right. We don't know if he speaks Latin. His name may be Lucas Wainman. But last time we heard that's probably not his real name.

Instead of a cute little mailbox, like it was in the great movie, The Lake House. Via a shitty old rental computer in the kitchen of their hundreds year old house, which apparently they and the person who was in the past both lived in at one point in time, which, by the way, was like 15, 20 something and 1985. Just so we're clear. But right before we finished last time, whatever it was that was happening at Ken and Deb's house went from like, I was going to say zero to 60, but now I'm like, maybe it went from 60 to 120.

You know what I mean? Because it was already kind of going, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I just got signed out of my frickin thing. Hold on. What the heck? Well, well, well, I'm always trying to do time traveling ghost wish you to stop revealing the truth.

The big twist that I thought was the most relevant Tory last time while you try to figure this out is that the information he was giving them was wrong. And they were like, well, something's off here. Somebody doesn't make any sense. And then when they called him on it, he was like, I was testing you because I couldn't be sure you weren't messing with me. And I was like, oh, this is good. Oh, this is good. Right.

But when then, but after that, then you finally, they finally dropped the bombshell that he tell they tell Lucas, yo, we're in 1985. And he's like, what? You're in 1985. No, no, no, no, no. You're supposed to be in the year 20109, like the other guy. Yeah. And they're like, what other guy?

So Mathis, I'm just going to give you that little bit again to read. I'm fine with that. So good. I can't believe the 20109 people came in at the end and I was just like, what's happening? Yeah. So I'm just going to drop that into the chat for you there. Just give that to the people again. Here we go.

Just to get us back up to speed. So this was the message from 20109 when when when prodded from those people there because didn't didn't somebody send a message 20109 calling 20109 do read. Yeah. All right. And this is their response. Ken, Deb, Peter, we are sorry that we can give you only two choices. One, that you either have your predicament explained in such a non rhyme way that you

may have instant understanding, but cause what should not to be happened. Two, try to understand that you three have a purpose that shall in your lifetime change the face of history. We 20109 must not affect your thoughts directly, but give you some sort of guidance that will allow room for your own destiny. All we can say is that we are all part of the same God, whatever he or it is. So I know you're going to go off, but here I got to say a couple of things on this. One, this of course ties in aliens immediately with that last comment.

I'm not going to deny that there's a possibility. So because I throw that out there, because a lot of theories out there is that we are all part of one giant consciousness. And this is also spiritual and a lot of people on earth believe this as well. But there's been encounters with aliens and abductions where this is a lot of the message they end up getting that you don't understand. We're all kind of part of this one thing, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, but what I'm curious about is like if they can't meddle in their fate, isn't

simply telling them they're going to change the course of history, fucking with their minds and now causing them to expect other things. That's where my time travel brain goes. This doesn't make sense. Here's the thing. I don't know at this point. They don't know anything about what 20109's purpose is. Sure.

So whatever that destiny thing is, maybe telling them is part of it. We don't. It's possible, I guess. Yeah. Technically, it's already happened though, right? Like if you go by time travel rules, they already told them. Well, Ken and Deb, unless there's multiple realities in any time you change something, you're just on another reality path.

In their reality, in the future, in 20109, they've already told them. I'm going to say this as far as I know. Wait, let me rebut it. Is there not a time traveler that we covered that would try and time travel back? He'd fuck up his timeline and talk about how his timeline is now different and he can't leave? Oh, that's right. It was John Titter.

Yeah. Oh, he's a fraud though. But in the future, it would already have happened. I guess then you wouldn't be time traveling. You'd be reality hopping. All I'm saying is Ken and Deb, as far as I know, are still alive today. So whatever their purpose might be, it still could be. And I'm not going to.

That's the only hint that I'm going to give right now. Okay. I will let you go. I'm sorry to interrupt, but it just. No, it's totally fine. I mean, we'll see. We'll see. We'll see how it ends.

But basically what we're saying now is that we have these two different time traveling messengers, one who is from backwards in time and one who is from forwards in time. And theoretically, they were all talking to each other at the same time in the eighties through like twisted doctor who asks theoretically, they were all talking to each other at the same time in all those times. Right. I'm just here to throw you on the fire. This story takes place in twenty one oh nine.

It could. It could, but. Oh my God. Imagine in twenty one oh nine, someone digs up this podcast episode. Right. Well, the computer. Right. The computer is the thing from the computer is the thing that's locked in 1985.

But that brings us back to Ken and Deb's teacher buddy, Peter Trinder, who again has been helping them fact check and translate things. All the things Lucas quote unquote has been saying. And he recently made a plan with them and an organization that we discussed a bit already last time called the Society for Psychical Research, because recently Peter had confirmed a list of books mentioned in one of Lucas's letters that really had existed at Brazenauss College, which was the real college that he said that he went to, not the fake information that he gave last time.

Right. And that checked out. All the books were from the right time period. They all would have been there at Brazenauss College. But as we know, we don't know Lucas's name just yet for real. He revealed that his name was a pseudonym, but he didn't say what his real name was yet. But later, when John Bucknell and Dave Welsh from the SPR, this is cited for Psychical Research show up later in May of that year, they really weren't ready to buy into the

whole thing and rather than have anything to do with the two entities or the information or like the time travel element of it. They were mostly just focused on the idea of Ken and Deb like hoaxing everything. So for them, their first order of business was actually just to like meticulously mic up the whole house. They had like a home base upstairs in the back of the house and they were like running cables down into the kitchen and shit. Ken went out to the pub like he always did to have like a couple beers or whatever and

come back just to try and like create the scenario. And then they put Debbie in the lounge that she was chilling in with her family that one time when they came to like watch her, except now she's sealed into that room with tape over the doors so that she can't get to the computer without disturbing the scene. So after a few hours, they have no result on the computer and the mood goes down. Ken is kind of disheartened. But a few weeks later, also in May after dropping Ken off at school for work, Debbie came home to find not just the furniture, but also almost every single thing in her kitchen that wasn't

like attached to the floor stacked against one wall. So that was like a poltergeist activity. So this was a big like thing for this time because everybody was just sort of like, there wasn't a lot of communicating happening and then all of a sudden, bam, a spike, right? So in the first week of June, they called SPR again to come back to do another test. And again, there was no response at the computer, right? So now if you were listening attentively last time, you might be thinking to yourself, well, wouldn't that be because Lucas was arrested for witchcraft that there is there would be

no communication, right? And apparently Ken and Deb were kind of on that same line of thinking because they got because because Lucas got arrested, if you remember last time. And so a little bit after that, after that didn't go anywhere, probably while they were at a bit of a low, one of Ken's colleagues at work, another high school teacher, floated the idea of him sending a threat to the sheriff who was apparently holding Lucas. And Mathis, I have that how can the sheriff see it? How can the sheriff see the message?

Well, if you remember last time how to send a message, right? But he couldn't see things. It's like a digital mental connection with the computer is how it was described. Like we have that information now through in through conversations with 2109 and kind of to help him to help understand what was kind of going on there. But that's that's kind of like revealed at the end of this summary that I'm basing this off of. Sure. Sure. Here's the message that was sent then. Lucas is a good man and should not die.

We are not devils, but we have power. Lucas must not die, but must be set free to return to his house. Then we will speak with you as friends. We, too, are fearful for your soul if Lucas dies, does die at your hand. Yeah. And apparently this like immediately worked. Lucas was able to talk to them again like right away. But now Lucas was having another issue because he was in jail or at least still sort of like under arrest ish and not living in his house.

And while he was doing that, some rich landowner dude called Grovner. I think it's like it's like governor with a couple extra letters. I think it's Grovner was trying to strong arm him off of his land. And if he didn't do something about it, he was going to be evicted from his land in November. So right now it's May and it's November then. So then again, they call down the SPR to do two more tests, two more tests, zero results of any kind. And by August of that year now, Ken and Debbie were just sort of like

done with everything. They were just sort of off the Lucas thing. They even took a fucking vacation for the first time in forever. They actually like went out of town for a couple of weeks or a week or whatever. And when they came back, Ken had sort of marinated on everything for a little bit and decided to come at it from another angle, try to figure out what was going down more than like finding out about Lucas. He started to just think about the scenario as a whole.

And he asked Lucas, quote, do small platters and knickknacks move without your touch? He asks him that. Dear carbon footprint, who's got America's largest electrified lineup? Toyota, 15 hybrid plug-in fuel cell electric and battery electric vehicles from the new Prius to the RAV4 hybrid, the Crown and the Tundra i-Force Max. Toyota's the name of the electrified game as our lineup gets larger. Your footprint gets smaller.

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because Toyota's got an iron grip on driving excitement. Find those wheels at Toyota dot com Toyota. Let's go places. And apparently, yeah, Lucas is having the same weird things happening to him in his time, which to them sort of proved that it wasn't really Lucas who was the source of the paranormal activity. And that really it was probably whatever. Twenty one oh nine is that was the key to all of this.

And even though his deal was like, don't share any details, you're going to mess up the time stream like we were just talking about. They decided that they would get a little bit more serious about figuring it out at this point, right? So one of the summaries that I have mentions that Lucas and Ken move the computer from where it normally is in the kitchen to like a different spot in the house. Like I think it was in the bathroom that they put it.

Because it was easier to hide the computer like like basically Lucas was like, I need you to like move the computer from the kitchen to like over here, because in my time, where you put it over there is much easier for me to hide my usage of the computer than it is right in the middle of my fucking living room or whatever. You know what I'm saying, but he doesn't have a computer. I don't. I still know there is a computer. He has to do some sort of he sees the computer and he thinks at the computer

and everybody else just sort of communicates with the computer without seeing the computer and just thinks it's like some sort of entity or whatever. And so he's like, it would be easier for me to like talk to you in secret if we moved it from where it is so that I can do what I need to do like over here in my house, right? So basically what I'm trying to show is that they sort of like start getting to be a little sympathetic. There is some sort of spatial connection.

Yeah. Well, I mean, they're also able to send objects through. Remember, yeah, I remember the burned photo and yeah, so many questions about how this works. I have so few answers about that. I just like just really quickly. There is technically three timelines happening. Yes. Not like, you know, if it's back to the future where it's like I went back to time back in time and now I'm on a new timeline.

And then I'm going to go back to when I started. This is like we are talking to a person in the past. Yeah, he's living days as we live days and we are continuing to chat over a course of days and he has his own timeline and we have our own timeline and the future has his own timeline and we're communicating with each other through these different timelines over the course of different things. So like he's living his days and then they come back and it's like, well, we went on vacation, but I guess like of so many questions about how this

I'm waiting for this to be like, and they were just on drugs and. So I look, I'm going to tell you this right now. You're not going to get concrete answers, but you're going to get a good sort of indication of what was kind of going on here. Maybe. OK. And also the book, just to give you an idea of like to what you were saying about different timelines, the book is actually called The Vertical Plane. Oh, speaking of huge shout out to the people who sent us the the actual secret

home is yes, yes, secret homies out there hooking us up with the actual book, because that book is so expensive to get your hands on. Yeah, I finally I finally got to, you know, read it. But this was I already sort of made this. So like I said, I'm going to I'll mention it again later. But if I feel like there's more that needs to be said about this, I will make sure you guys hear it listeners out there. But yeah, I think that's a cool little detail that they moved the computer.

It's like a cool like sort of movie-esque detail. But I also think that it's because Ken and Lucas sort of like became thick as thieves a little bit. They sort of like decided that they were bros and 2109 was the weird one. And the reason I think that is because shortly after that, just like how he sent the Jaguar through the picture, the Jaguar. Ken left out a charcoal pen and a paper for Lucas on the computer and actually was able to get a message back, which Jesse, I have.

This for you. And it's actually interesting because it's kind of a surprising little. Surprise, quote, twist, new piece of information here. It is this is the translated version by John by Peter Trindor. All right. Yes, you have my name in your book, I think. If not, John put Tom and I think you will understand my name. It is also the place of Peter's house.

What does this book of names and ages say about me? Love, Thomas. Yeah, so obviously he signed this Thomas instead of Lucas. Which is like a pretty big deal on its own. But he still didn't give away his full name. Directly. So maybe he's still sort of trying to follow 20109's like plan. But Lucas did finally reveal that his real name is Thomas.

And after putting together the fact that the place of Peter's house was the village of Howardon, where Peter Trindor lived and where the high school is that Ken taught at, right? They concluded that Lucas Wayman was actually someone that they had on their shortlist for a little while at the beginning of this, when they when they didn't even have a name. A guy called Thomas Howardon. Who after looking into it a little further,

they discovered really did go to Braesnows College, just like Lucas said from the year 1530 to 1538. And he was apparently expelled for, quote, expunging the name of the Pope. Don't know exactly what that means, probably has to do with editing religious documents, I guess. Which finally sort of closed the loop on whether or not there actually was a real person and it all sort of checked out,

at least a little bit more. And suddenly Ken is like right back in. He's like, holy fucking shit. We figured out who this guy is. We know he's real. We found him so that, you know, that was a big deal. But on the flip side of that, this might have been the last straw for 20109 because the first week of September, Ken wakes up

and finds that the computer is not in the kitchen anymore, where he left it that week, but moved it to the bathroom again. And in its place on the counter, where it was supposed to be, was a message in chalk written directly on the counter, which was really weird. And I would say I think it's from 20109, but it has the sort of energy of the first message from last time, which was very strange, but was not written in the language of the 1500.

So Mathis, this one is for you. OK. I'm waiting for it to load. Sorry. I said OK. One more chance. Measure frequency by plus two energy. What else other than sound and light? Yeah, so that's fucking crazy.

But yeah, very like weirdly formatted. And then a little later on the computer itself, a message came through that was much more clear as as the 20109 that we know from the previous message. So here's another little quote for you, Mathis, to continue with there. Ken Debe, Peter, we have reason to believe you have Lucas Weinman's true name. If this is correct, you must say so. So that we may rectify the problem, but immediately before it is accepted,

but like spelt like E X C E X C E P T E D. Yeah, accepted. Yeah. So now the thinking was that maybe 20109 sort of facilitating all this sort of like in a Truman Show-esque way somehow and that maybe he had some greater secret goal and bringing them together. And that's what Ken and Lucas were like talking about. And they're like little letters back and forth to each other. And they sort of go into it now with the mindset that maybe they should try and

keep 20109 out of it as much as possible, right? But now also, SPR, the Society for Psychical Research, also heard about 20109 and they're interested enough in it that they requested a new test where they go in themselves, write 20109, 10 questions without Ken and Debbie knowing what they are. And Ken and Ken agrees and Dave Welsh from the SPR comes over, types in the questions, leaves them on screen for 45 minutes, deletes them, waits. Nothing. Why delete?

Yeah, why delete? I think to leave room for them. I don't I don't know. This is the test that he carried out exactly as he carried it out. And four days later, there was a message from 20109 that kind of blew everyone's mind a little bit. So here's what it is. This was the one that they sort of, obviously, this guy's name is

there's Dave Welsh and John Butiker or something like that from the SPR. So this was literally addressed to them. Who would you like to read? That's that's a Mathis. OK, David, John, David, you interfere with communication next time next time you decide to perform your little experiment, you must be clear. From here, we suggest you try someone else to sit with Debbie. Yes, we are what you would call a tacky on universe,

but your understanding is incorrect. We ask nothing more of you than to carry on as you would prefer. We will have John present if given a choice or you may bring another as mentioned. No, it is no concern to us that this is not proved. We will give you a plotting of a star next time. We move at a speed so that we cover every point in your time and universe. We have no form. We feed we feed of a neat energy that you will not have heard of.

Twenty one oh nine. Yeah, so this is fucking crazy, right? This peaks David's interest a bit at the SPR, but he's still obviously quite skeptical about this. But in the meantime, Lucas slash Thomas has sort of moved on to the charcoal paper full time now almost because he feels like it's secret from twenty one oh nine and outside his influence and they kind of decide that possibly

some of the message that Thomas had been had sent earlier had been either fudged or messed with or completely fabricated because I mean, we've read a lot of messages, but there's been there's many more that actually happened and like the book is quite thick. So if there's any more, like I say, that are like important to this story, I'll make sure and grab them and read them for you somewhere on a mini soda or whatever. Yeah. And so because of this, they decide that twenty one oh nine, despite what he's telling them, might have some sort of ulterior motive.

So the SPR, though, they're like loving this twenty one oh nine shift for some reason. They're like eating it up and they try another test. This time they get their own computer that they can take with them afterwards, check for hacks, tried to run a test, tried to run that test a couple others a few more times. But after not really getting anything concrete, they just sort of gave up, washed their hands in the situation without coming to any official conclusions.

And so in December of nineteen eighty five, they can and Debbie with no other place to turn, finally decided to take the story to a local paper called the Chester Observer to try and get some more eyes on the story. And they actually quoted SPR in the article, the Psychical Research Guys. And I have I have the quote for Jesse to read, which I think is a perfect guy to read a quote like this one. So here you go. We did not get a specific answer.

We got a generalized commentary accusing us of not believing in what was going on. We got waffle. Clearly, if this case is a hoax, then the two teachers are prime suspects. I believe it is also possible that a third party was responsible. I would have loved to prove it was genuine. It would have been the most unique phenomenon ever recorded. Something or someone is doing it. It was not the job of the SPR to point the finger.

Yeah. So to Ken. He was sort of hurt by this. It proved to him that they never really believed him and they were just sort of going through the motions with him. But the weird thing is and this is like so weird to me. This is like maybe the weirdest detail in this whole thing. Despite everything, he tried to follow up with them because he wanted to grab their notes and like pass them on to whoever else they could get to like

investigate this with them. So they were like, can we get your notes that you guys were taking? And they were like, there are no notes. And then they looked into John Bucknall and Dave Welsh and John had recently quit the SPR at the time already when he was there doing these tests. And the main dude, Dave Welsh, who was running the tests, had never been a registered member of the SPR. Oh, so fucking weird to me.

I need to look into the book to see if there's any more context to that. But like, to me, that is the weirdest thing about this whole thing. And as a result, morale was just completely low. Thomas almost never communicated anymore. None of his weird little recipes or anything he was giving anymore. And November, the month that they thought was going to be his like cut off month had come and gone. But just as Ken and Debbie were ready to hang it up for good,

twenty one oh nine, message them one more time and literally told them what to do next, which is super crazy. So here's a little quote from Mathis to read. OK. Here we go. All caps again. We ask you to do the following. There is a brilliant researcher, ufologist. We know you don't like the word.

His name is Gary M. Rowe. His ideas differ somewhat to yours, but nevertheless, he can help you with a couple of your problems. Yeah. So this was super fucking bizarre. And as it turns out, this dude was actually a real dude. He lives in Wales, and he's the founder of two groups, which just seem like cooler versions of the old group. One is called Forward to Aquarius, Paranormal and Psychical Research Organization,

which is not an anagram. But if it was, it would be FAP Pro. And the the other one, which was called the Welsh Federation of Independent Ufologists, which seemed promising, you know, in terms of Ken and Debbie getting somebody who was going to believe in them. But when he showed up, it was not exactly what they expected. And this is a quote from Gary.

And I'm just going to give this to Jesse to read for reasons you will find obvious in a moment. Oh, good. I can't. So cool. I was certain this was simply a windup. Some pranksters heard about my research into the weird and the strange and therefore assumed I must be gullible and easily fooled. Yeah. And so he was super skeptical of them at first. Like that's that was the impression that they got. He was like, it felt like, oh, shit, we're just like calling down the SPR

again to tell us that we're crazy. But he did end up coming down and they met at a pub. And Gary gave Ken a sealed envelope to send through to the other side. And he wouldn't let them look in. And apparently, 20109, when he got that letter, had the same idea back. He sent a letter back for Gary and Ken had to print it out and seal it without reading it and send it back to Gary, which is exactly what he did. And this went back and forth like a few times between Gary and 20109

with Ken as this like weird messenger guy. And here's another quote from Gary. You know, singing a quite different tune. So here's here's here's Jesse again. I'm instructed to apologize, but in any event, I would have done so of my own volition. There will be a letter hopefully this weekend. I'm not I am also instructed to apologize to Ken and Debbie.

I must try and answer your last letter. It would appear that you are more important than I had realized in the scheme of things, Gary. Yeah. So whatever the fuck communication they had, Gary just jumped on board right away. And suddenly. Both.

Both 20109 and Thomas got really chatty again. And this is when Thomas explained about what I was saying about the weird, like psychic connection that he had with this computer and how he could see it. But nobody else could see it. But anybody could think towards it and and communicate, you know, which is how 20109 explained it to him when he gave him the when he gave him the ability to use it. And.

That's super weird, but this went back and forth for a few months till March 21st. So just timeline wise, yeah, this dude shows up, doesn't believe what's going on. Yeah. Then he does. He he first they exchange letters back and forth like a couple times. Secret letters. He's like, I don't even want you to be aware of what's in this letter sealed. Put it through the thing.

They go, OK, great, we're going to do that sends through a message comes back. Message comes back, prints it out. It's like a file. He prints it out, gives him it, but it's like a trust level there that I don't. Sure. I mean, of course, but this is what happened. And OK. And Gary, Gary was on board. And then it was just like, you are the chosen ones. Yeah, that's the reason you are the ones you are so important to the future of mankind.

Like, OK, all right. Well, it's so bizarre because 20109 said they are tachyon universe and they don't feed on normal things. Tachyon is like from Star Trek, for one, is where I recognize the name. But doing a quick research, it's just a part, a hypothetical particle that always travels faster than the speed of light. But most physicists say don't exist because nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. And no physics actually support the fact that tachyons actually exist.

That's interesting. Give it, you know, I just want to get that out there. Because I was like, tachyons, I'm like, that's Star Trek, dude. I know that term. They talk to say it a lot. An 80 years Star Trek will be reality, my guys. Yeah, maybe. No, no. But yeah, so so they're going back and forth. This is happening. Gary is now fully on board.

Couple months go by. Things are going well. And then finally. March 21st, 1986. Now we're almost like a year and a half, two years into this. Ken finally gets his last ever communication from Thomas. And this one, I actually included the whole thing. So, Jesse, I apologize for the length of this.

But it's fine. You know, we're in the past now. Yeah, this is this is Thomas. This is the last Thomas. This is the last Thomas. Yeah. Oh, this boy has a lot to say. My true fellows and sweet maid. Oof.

Graven, I think it's Ross seven, you know, there's the governor guy has said that Thomas must go. I know it is for the best because the people of Dottleston are very wary of me. Gross seven or says they will burn my old farm down and that except for him and all the village despises me. At least that is his view. It is good to know that all will change

and there are true men to follow like Ken and Peter. Though four hundred years is a long time and there is much to happen to mankind. It is sad that men must learn righteousness from their ugly ways, believing that they have to look for truth and ruthlessness and never follow a path that is for truth. I pray for my fellows at night that they are never imprisoned because of their love for their brother, Thomas.

Are we not true men? I say, whoa, to all you men who are not true for you are marked by God. You will not have your company, but you will walk with the beasts of Tartus forevermore. Amazing. Yeah. I love that line. Yes, you that have no worth in this life. I know that I mustn't sorrow for I cannot put these feelings to paper.

But you must know that I weep and I'm emotional. I find it hard to write. Perhaps you will come to Oxford. Now I think there is no danger for me there. For I hear the king is very sick and all is quiet in the church. I shall go by boat from Chester to Bristol. There I will buy a new horse for mine will not go on a boat. She got scared of water as it is scared of fives.

Fives. Yeah, what's five? Maybe fire. I don't know. Fives also weep for him. I shall try to make my stay at Brazen knows, though I know I was expelled many years ago. I will write my book about my brothers and made and of the end of Lucas and the little puppy and of our love of one another. One day you will all sit down at my table

for wine and meet by the river in Oxford, where we shall read each other's books and laugh, and we shall speak of truth and good men watching Oxford change together forevermore. In your time, my old book in your time, my book is old, but I shall not go to my God until it is written. Then we will all be truly embraced. My love to you all. I shall await you in Oxford, Thomas Haywarden.

Yep. Oh, so that was his little sign off. He promises to write a book. He says he's off to go somewhere. Goodbye. Goodbye. I love you. We'll see each other again someday. I wonder if what 20 not 20109 was saying to him was a lot more metaphysical about where people were going and what was going to happen

and how they were all going to be intertwined. But for his like for him to understand and his just from his time and stuff. Yeah. Interesting. But then a little bit later, there was another message from 20109. And this one is for you, Mathis. All right. A little shorter. There is another person to come. They will be the help you we need.

You will know them when they come. Thomas did eventually write his book and soon died shortly after. He placed it in a secure place. It shouldn't take too many years to find it. Though he wrote it in Latin and with the help of a friend that he met in Oxford. The inscription reads, me rits this in the hope that my flaws will one day find this book. Then may over lands be not see they not be not see distant.

We will finish now. You have a lot of work to do. There is no need for you to write back as we will have gone. Thank you for your cooperation. 20109. Yeah. And that was the last they heard of 20109. And that is where the story is left. I mean, I have a few other things to follow up with here.

But in terms of the actual events that happen in the 80s with this computer, that is the story of the communication with these people and these entities from across time and space. And before we move on to what possibly happened, was there a book found? Well, OK, so no, there hasn't been a book found yet. But the expert. So first of all, there is an expert that was on out of this world, which, like I said, that that show is the one with Carol Vorderman

from Countdown. And in that show, it's like kind of like unsolved mysteries where they like recreate it. So that's like the greatest thing ever is to like go watch like 90s actors with that like misty ass lens. Recreating this and kissing fucking Lucas right on the lips. So funny.

But they had an expert look at it and they said. I don't think that whoever wrote this knew what the fuck they were talking about. So the guy was like. So you're saying that a early modern English expert wouldn't. Did you don't think somebody made that? And she was like, no, like a fake that was made by somebody with an early modern English background would be way better than this.

So that's even like this is amateurish is what you say. That's what she was saying. But on the flip side of that, Peter Trinder, the teacher, the other teacher who was studying this and translating it was saying, even if it was not accurate, the level of accuracy that it had was not something that somebody could just pull out of their ass. It would have to be something that like they sat there and meticulously researched like word for word as they went through every time anyway.

So the idea that somebody could sneak in there in 40 minutes and like write these responses to each other is very unlikely. Well, that doesn't. All right, I'm going to hold off. But like, I mean, I agree. You say that to me. It's impossible for someone to sneak in there in 40 minutes. To me says, all right, well, that it's one of the three main characters.

Right. Well, that's one of the three people has to be it. That's obviously the like clear. Because when the psychical research people were there, every time they tried, they got nothing, nothing. Right. But when they walked everybody away and all that. Yeah. But a lot of the times they get nothing for months. So who knows? Sure. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's a lot of time to research.

Wink. Yeah. I mean, I mean, sure. But a lot of the times they, you know, these people are responding to things that are of the moment. You know what I mean? Like things that are happening in real time that they're just talking about that night. I definitely believe that. This could also be one person pulling the wool over the two others eyes.

Yeah, I mean, that's that's that's the the thing that the the SPR guys or whoever the fuck they were, like left with was like, you know, I was really interested to find out whether it was going to be. One of them or maybe even just somebody else who's fucking with them who like lives in their house or something. But, you know, no conclusions were ever drawn. But Ken and Debbie, like I said, they're alive as far as I know. Maybe they are dead now, that it's a while after 1996.

But I I don't know because Gary is still alive as of 2017. Like in there and there they were the chosen ones that are supposed to change the course of history, right? Right. And they get interviewed in a weird sort of way in the show. But they seem like at peace and they even sort of are like, we're kind of sad that we ever like brought this to the media. Like I like they feel like it probably would have been better if they just kept it to themselves as this weird crazy thing that happened.

But they did confirm at least as of 1996, which is like a decade later, that they are still spending their time and resources actively searching for the book, but that they have no interest in like making a media circus out of it, even if they find it, they just want to for their own personal closure. They're just happy that they had that story happen to them. And like I say, thanks again to whoever sent us the the vertical plane. I'm not going to blast it out, but you know who you are.

And like I say, I will if there's more information that gives us more info, especially about what 2109 wanted out of all this as I, you know, I read a lot of summaries about this and it seems like there's more information to be had about 2109 in the book, especially. And I'd like to go in there and give that a look because I'm going to read the book, obviously, I started it already, but I haven't gotten past where I've already. Right. Yeah. And it's still like even on that end, it's still a hell of a story for one.

Yeah. But it's it just it tickles all the right parts of my favorite parts of like both like, you know, mysticism and all that shit with like multiple realities and like all being one consciousness and all that shit. Yeah. Also like sci-fi brain of just like, how would this work? Dude, time travel doesn't make sense. Imagine us doing an episode on this forces us as part of this timeline. And because we do an episode, someone finds the book.

I would be sick. Dude, I know. If you're in Oxford, if you're anywhere nearby. Hey, yeah, look for this fucking book, Thomas Hayward or whatever it is. But I do have one last quote from this Welsh guy, Gary Rowe for Mathis to read because Jesse had to read the giant Thomas one earlier. Sure. This is from Gary Rowe. And this is this is the last word, I think, on this as far as like what this could have been.

I do have a crazy theory, but I'll let Mathis read this. Yeah. OK, OK. I'm excited. Oh, this is this is a great story, Alex. Thanks for bringing this to us. All right. This is from Gary. If this story had not been made public or turned into a book, I would never have spoken about it to another living soul. I sincerely wish it had not.

For me, the Dottleston messages are not a story or a book. Instead, two instead, two is part of my life. One thing has profoundly impacted everything I thought I knew. It changed me forever. The information gained came at a high price. I wish I was at liberty to discuss my communication with 20109. I am not a wealthy person. I believe this information I sit on could make me rich and famous.

The fuck? I believe I was selected due to knowing that I am a person who can be trusted to keep the secret sacred. The secrets. The secret has its own built in evidence. Keep reading. Yeah. And then another quote. Oh, sorry. Disappointed. I am not exactly.

It's just what happened. I just disappoint. I am not some. I am not some away with the fairies wishful believer. I investigated with professional detachment, not bothered what I would find. Fake or fact. I left no stone unturned and used cutting edge science to get to the truth. In fact, I believe it was the first computer controlled psychic investigation recorded in the world.

I don't care to hoots if nobody ever believes it. I know it really happened. It changed my life forever. It is going to change yours. The book should and will be one day. The book should will one day be ISBN recorded under the history section. It is a monumental historical marker in the ribbon of time. Interesting.

So like so my thought was like, what if they're they're chosen one thing is literally just to find the book and the discovery of this book cracks open with how we believe time operates as a whole. That's that's the idea. What a what a math is interpretation of all of this. Right. That's because that's what I would love.

I would love that to be the case. Can I give you the Jesse interpretation? The one that's going to blow your minds. Here you go. All right. As we know, let me just set up the facts. As we know, this computer is brought home. They store all these conversations on this floppy drive, right?

It only, you know, they pull it out. It only happens during certain times. They start getting messages written in chalk and they start getting like, you know, there's this weird like, how are they communicating without a computer? Like we can move the computer in different rooms like all this stuff. And there's things that don't make a lot of sense. I propose to you. You ready for this?

Yeah. One or more of the people in this home, multiple personalities. Oh, mental illness. I like it. And they do not know that, like, what if one of the people they do not know that it's them doing it, which is why they can so easily buy into what's happening? I like it because it doesn't make them liars.

Right. Like they don't. They aren't lying because one or more of them is doing it without knowing. And they can say, I think it's even cool that you could say, let me just say for a fact, I don't think like, you know, mental health is a cool bit, you know what I'm saying? Like, I think it's cool that they can, you know, Thomas and Lucas can both technically exist.

Same with the person from the future. They might they could all be different personalities or Lucas could be a personality that's like messing with them and is like, I'm actually Thomas, right? Who knows? Who knows? I think that's a phenomenal like take on it. I don't know if it makes it, you know, or it's just or it's just like that can be true. It could also just be some super imaginative fiction.

You know, so like there's an incredibly well written story with not enough evidence to ever pin down. Yeah, the writing actually isn't amazing in the actual book. I do it's the dude is not a great writer. But in terms of conceptualizing this, if it's just complete fabrication, pretty amazing stuff. Yeah, it's definitely like a good Twilight Zone episode. Right. Yeah. Really.

And it's so like movie ish. All the things that happen, which is the perfect thing. The friendship, the like romance, the the like for activity. Yeah. But yeah, thanks again to out of this world. Shoutouts to Carol Vorderman. Shoutouts to Tom Sleman for his book. Shoutouts to the Dark History's podcast,

which I'm extremely thankful for and was able to get most of my nice meaty quotes from before I had the book. And again, like I say, there's any more good quotes that I find as I'm able to read through the book, I'll make sure and get them into your ears. Also, big thanks to your curious politicus blog, Tom Ruffles, WordPress blog, the joy of mere words. And again, I will link all this shit in the subreddit, including the out of this world episode for anyone interested enough

and following up on the story. The whole episode is there. It's two parts edited together. Thank you for not spoiling it for yourself. If you had the self control to do so. And if you don't see in the next day or two up on the subreddit, just bug me on Twitter, but also compliment me because I'm extremely fragile in 2021. But yeah, that's it.

That's that's the Donaldson letters. Thank you guys so much. Amazing, amazing, amazing set of episodes, Alex. Last thing I want to show is in a few weeks, we got new merch dropping. So if you want any of the old stuff, it's going to be gone in a week. And if you miss the Chupacabra t-shirt, it will be coming back in poster form alongside our third new cryptid t-shirt based on Jeff the Mongoose.

Jeff, keep your eyes peeled. Jeff is coming back and he's going to be wearable. He's going to be wearable. God bless you. That's it for us. We will see you guys next week. Goodbye, everybody. Peace out. Anyway, me and my wife were sitting outside indulging on our porch one night,

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