Chit Chat Stocks - Growth to Value | Sea Limited (SE)

Episode Date: December 5, 2020

On the 5th day of Christmas Growth to Value gives to you, Sea Limited the digital internet platform provider. Sea Limited largest business segments are digital entertainment, e-commerce, and digital financial services. Listen in while Chit Chat Money and Growth to Value discuss what is so interesting about Sea Limited. Visit our website: https://www.chitchatmoney.com/ Subscribe to 7 Investing with the code "CCM": https://7investing.com/subscribe/ Follow Chit Chat Money on Twitter: https://twitter.com/chitchatmoney Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to 25 Stocks at Christmas presented by Chit Chat Money. Today we have an interview with Chris from Growth to Value. That's probably how you know him. He's a writer for Seeking Alpha. His service I believe is called Potential Multibaggers and it's done really really well and today we're talking C-Limited. It was a fun discussion so we're recording this after the fact but I had a lot of fun discussing it. He knows the company very well and we know a lot of listeners are excited about C-Limited so it was a great discussion. Before we get to that though, sales pitch sales pitch yes sales pitch for seven investing uh i'll simplify it this time kind of give a different logic for it uh you can do just like 10 seconds ago too and our sales are doing

quite well perfect perfect so if you you can use our code ccm and get seven dollars or ten dollars off excuse me your first month so it's only seven bucks for the stock picks this happened each month So that's only $1 per each stock pick. And so far since they've launched, they've actually beat the S&P by 22%. That's the day of recording on December 1st. I think that's fantastic numbers, and there's a lot of great opportunities out there. They're saying they're writing up a ton of good articles. Yeah, I don't know.

What can I say? Let me just break down the math for you here. All right. It's $7, seven advisors, seven stock picks. You're getting $1 for one stock pick from an advisor. How much time do you think they spent on that? Probably tons of time. And so you're paying, let's assume it's 10 to 20 hours.

You just spent $1 for 10 to 20 hours of their work. That's a bargain. Plus, after this month, you're not locked into any long-term deal. We'd hope that you'd stay on because those guys do provide a great service, but you can try it out. It's almost like a free trial. Yep, and it's code CCM at checkout. And now here's our interview with Chris from Growth to Value.

Welcome to Chit Chat Money. On this show, host Ryan Henderson and Brett Schaefer interview industry experts and riff on the world of investment. As a quick reminder, Chit Chat Money is a CCM Media Group podcast. Ryan and Brett are not financial advisors. Anything discussed on Chit Chat Money by Ryan or Brett or any other podcast guest is not formal advice or a recommendation. Now, please enjoy this episode. Today, we are welcomed by Chris from Growth of Value. He writes on Seeking Alpha.

You may know of him from Twitter as well. Potential multibagger service. That's right. Fantastic service. So, Chris, how are you doing today? It's been a while since we've talked to you last. So, how have you been? Yeah, great.

I'm feeling great and I hope for you the same. so um yeah the service is going really well and uh i'm enjoying every single uh moment and uh well i think i'm i'm 44 and i think i will do this for 50 more years at least so that's nice yeah that's always it's exciting it's exciting and so today we're talking c limited how'd you come across this company yeah um i well my subscribers get two watch lists so one for the potential multi-baggers one for another category that i have introduced uh which is called budding anchors and um together those uh watch lists are about 150 160 stocks something like that but i also have my my own pre-watch list and um i think i put uh c limited on that one well

but it's it's you know it's a huge pool of about 400 stocks and i think i put it on somewhere around the ipo but you know 400 plus uh 160 that's that's more than 500 stocks and and you don't follow them closely that's impossible so um there's got to be something that triggers me to um to put it from the pre-watch list and to the watch list and that was actually uh when i saw that uh free fire well was firing on all cylinders uh in 2019 and um that's when i actually uh looked a bit uh deeper and uh and i was really shocked actually to see the numbers and to see what this company had done and i felt actually a bit stupid that i hadn't looked deeper uh before but you know it was at 54 when i picked it as a potential multibagger so well it has done well we uh yeah

brett and i are kicking ourselves because we did a show on it a long time ago we said we liked it and then we just kind of let it be yeah but uh why don't you explain sort of the business model what does sea limited actually do yeah so there are uh three um divisions actually three arms there's garina shoppy and uh sea money so um garina is uh gaming and that's uh game distribution and um well free fire is their own first uh game their own game that they uh developed and um Then you have Shopee and Shopee is actually e-commerce, you know, think Amazon, something like that. And then you have C-Money, which is a bit similar to Mercado Pago from Mercado Libre, if you know that. So it's FinTech. So, and those three pillars together form C. That's a short version. they're uh they're based in southeast asia right i know people kind of get confused and think maybe

they're like singapore based or um yeah they are they are based in singapore uh but their market is southeast asia so okay those are definitely three good industries to be in e-commerce gaming and uh what was the last one there uh payments fintech yeah so yeah it's it it it has benefited a lot from uh the coronavirus of course but you know it it was it was like someone built it for this crisis right through your arms yeah the uh and then i guess that market you know people look at e-commerce and they think all right it's going to be just like amazon in the united states but it's a lot different over there how does it work i know that there's a lot you know there it's tougher to do the logistics maybe the roads aren't as good the infrastructure you know how are the

How are they working with that over in Southeast Asia? Well, it's a bit comparable to Latin America, I would say, in that sense that, yeah, it's not as good as in the West, but it's not lacking in Africa, especially Singapore. I mean, Singapore is a first world country. And other countries, yeah, there are some more challenges. um infrastructural but not not something outlandish i mean um so it's it's doable it's doable okay and then what is the management like because i know that when you're say someone from

either united states or europe you're looking at a company in southeast asia a lot of the bet is on the management because you don't have you know first person relationships with the company uh what's the executive team like is the ceo and founder still there yeah yeah and that's uh And, you know, I don't know if you know Pony Ma, he's a founder and CEO of Tencent, and, well, they are quite similar. So, there's actually a great story about Forrest Lee, he studied in the United States, and he also got to know a girl. that's how it goes and um she was from singapore so he was a chinese and uh she was from singapore and um when she uh graduated uh from standard um well he went with her to that graduate graduation and that graduation was the famous um speech by uh steve jobs uh you know the one with um stay hungry stay foolish that one right and uh firstly he was so of the impression by that

speech that he listened to it again again and again about 20 times each night he said and um and he was really inspired by it and then um well his his girlfriend which is still his wife now got a prestigious job at in singapore so she was from singapore at uh i don't know if you have pronounced that well temasek i think it's it's pronounced or temasek or something like that so it's it's um um a holding company and an investment company in singapore and um yeah well firstly he said he he basically filled his days with gaming um you know he he didn't know anyone except for um yeah his his parents-in-law and um and at a certain moment he he combined the two things so the steve jobs speech which he still looked at almost every day on youtube and his

gaming and he thought well why don't I do it do something with it and that's how he started Garina so that was the first arm and then C was only later so it's a bit like you know Google and Alphabet first comes Google then Alphabet first comes Garina and then comes C which is the holding company actually and so he started Garena to distribute the games so and to distribute games in Southeast Asia that was his idea and that was in 2009 and well then in 2012 He launched Garena Plus, which is actually some sort of a platform in which you can download games and at the same time social platform. So you can chat there, you can meet with friends and game together, etc. And he also became the distributor for the games of Tencent in Southeast Asia.

And Tencent was so impressed by it, firstly, that they took a 30% stake in his company. And they did something which, I mean, is really a vote of confidence. I think they gave him the voting rights for their shares forever. So indefinitely, without any condition. Chinese companies don't do that often. No, no, no, no, no. that's, it was really a vote of confidence from Tencent to, uh, Forrest Lee. And, um, you know, um, he's,

I would say that, um, Forrest Lee is some sort of, I'm sure I'll put it, a polite version of Jeff Bezos. Um, in that sense that, um, Bezos believes in conflict as a model. And, uh, Forrest Lee, um, well, he's, he's a, he's a, he's the same strategic long-term long-term thinker as a business but um he he well he thinks that you don't um achieve anything with conflict um and um he tries to do everything he's he sometimes feels like he's some sort of buddha so and um yeah but he's he's you know he's really a relentless innovator, just as Jeff Bezos is, and really a long-term thinker.

And at the same time, he's not afraid to kill an idea if it doesn't work. He tries a lot and he kills the ideas very early. For example, he has now launched a product which is similar to slack, actually. It's still in a soft launch. But if it doesn't work, he will kill it in a few months or so. So no problem with that. So yeah, he's a gentleman. And at the same time, yeah, he really has a vision. And that's also why he identifies with Pony Ma, because he, well, Pony Ma is also more on the background and not a huge talker. And yeah, Forest Lee is the same. So yeah, I mean, yeah, management is extremely important to me. And with Forest Lee, that really is exactly how i want it to be yeah and i guess this would be a quick sidebar um you know tencent has the uh

the super app uh wechat in china has there been any moves for c to try to do that with their what's their payments called c pay or c money c money c money yeah well it has different names it's it's um c money is the is a division in the company but it's also called shoppy money and uh air pay that was the first name um i mean uh c is not in china and outside of china wechat is not that big um so it's it's it's a different model it's a different model i mean it's more like um it's more like uh how shall it's it's more it's it's more like square actually than uh uh, than WeChat. Okay. That makes sense. Uh, all right. Now we're going to get to the crux of the conversation. Uh,

why do you like C as an investment going forward? Maybe get out some of the business lines that are growing quickly. Why do you know, why do you like C limited? Um, yeah, well, I think I will have to do it in three parts then, uh, you know, the three divisions and let's start with, uh, Karina, the, the gaming division. Um, it's, um, they they start they started out as a as a distributor of games and um that was already uh very profitable actually um and then in 2017 uh free fire was uh launched their first uh

in-house developed game and um you know it was actually a slow burn i mean it it didn't take off immediately and it was only in 2019 uh when i started seeing it um and then it became more and more successful and uh even this year to 2020 it keeps growing and it was um the fifth grossing uh free game uh all over the world this year uh so um it it keeps growing everywhere it's uh it's starting to grow in the u.s right now so i mean after three years um so i i think um yeah there's a lot of there's a lot of growth left there um in in in uh in the gaming division they also have uh uh great distribution deals of course the tencent games and then games like FIFA, etc. So yeah, and that is actually a big advantage that they have

over other e-commerce players that they have that cash cow in Garena. So then Shopee. Shopee, the e-commerce arm that was launched in um 2015 and um well in in southeast asia uh and um it has it has been launched now uh at the end of 2019 if i remember well uh in uh brazil as well and it uh it was the the most downloaded um uh shopping app in uh brazil now last month i think or two months ago i don't remember yeah yeah so above mercado libre above amazon above all the others uh it's it's from a small basis that it started but and uh brazil is also a very important market for uh for guarina so um for the gaming division and and that's that's where you already see how um they play the game um they they use guarina actually the gaming departments to also

introduce the other um elements of c and um they fortify each other and um yeah at the time you know, Shopee was launched in 2015. And at the time, everybody said, firstly, it was crazy. I mean, e-commerce is known for being a very capital intensive business. You have to build out a whole distribution network, etc. There are quite low margins. So everybody said, yeah, you know, Garena is doing fine. Why would you take the risk of ruining your complete company with with this uh which is not necessary just make a career profitable or even more profitable and take the money and that's it but he really wanted to do it and um yeah he he he thought he could do better than than the other place by um focusing on on two things

which he thought nobody did um and that's focusing on women so uh he really um on purpose focused to attract women because he he thought uh well it's women who shop the most uh not just for you know uh the typical women uh things that we associate women with you know the fashion and and makeup and whatever but but also um everything uh because he said you know um my wife is like that i think uh a lot of uh women are like that that even though the man acts as if he's the boss it's often the woman who also at least has a very important voice but often even a more important voice than that of the man for a lot of uh purchases so that was the first thing he focused on and the second thing is something that he had learned from his gaming department uh garina uh

social and um so he he focused on social shopping um and um with uh shoppy you can you can talk to friends you can you know you can uh right you can you can buy something and you can uh uh through message uh on the platform itself to brett you know i bought this it's a great man you should you should try it too and um that's just one of the things they also have games uh if and you can can get discounts if you play those games well etc etc so it's there's a whole shopping experience that's combined with a social media experience um yeah i was gonna ask are is there a lot of synergies between the e-commerce business and the gaming business is there a reason that so you just talked about how free fire has been enormously successful in brazil

and now shopee is doing well uh over there's also is there a reason that that happens is there a lot of like intersect between the customers there there's a kind of a thought that's like that's yeah i i think they know i think they they cross uh marketed but i'm i'm not completely sure about that um there is there is a brand awareness that's that's for sure i mean um and um i have heard but i'm not sure if if this is a strategy a strategy that they that they uh roll out systematically but i i know that they sometimes uh use uh guarino or free fire to promote um stuff they sell on shoppy for example so yeah there is there is cross marketing um i'm not sure about i haven't heard anything about this being a structural thing but i have

heard from users that they that they saw that so um that's anecdotal evidence as you sometimes use so um and then um yeah i mean if you look if you look at um shopee the future i mean in five years just five years um shopee has become the biggest e-commerce company in southeast asia which may sound not so impressive but if you know that lazada was the biggest player and lazada is fully owned by alibaba which throws a ton of money at lazada and still shopee overtakes lazada as the biggest player in southeast asia well that already says something. If you look at their guidance for this year for Shopee, it's plus 144% that they expect, I mean, and they will probably beat that expectation. So, it's really,

I mean, it's really crazy to see that kind of growth. And if you, well, actually, I just read an interview with Forrest Lee and he says Shopee is quite close to being profitable so that would be yeah and I think it could make

maybe take two maximum three years and Shopee will already be profitable so it's it's fueled by the money that is made in Garena That money is invested in Shopee.

And then they're also investing heavily now in C-Money. And the total payment volume of C-Money was about $2 billion in the last quarter. And about 30% of all purchases on Shopee are already done. with C-Money and there you see the synergy play again. So they really use the different components of the company very well. Now at this money, I have to say C-Money at this moment, it generates in the last quarter,

it was something like not even $80 million of revenue. So 2 billion of total payment volume, but only 18 million of revenue. I have seen this story before and I completely ignored it before in Mercado Pago. So I saw that story as well. And I thought, well, with these numbers, I mean, how could this mean something?

How could this make a difference over the long term? But yeah, if you look at Mercado Pago now, Well, there was a total payment volume of, I don't know, something like 15 billion or so in the last quarter. And revenue was more than 500 million, I think it's 550 million or something like that in the last quarter alone. So Mercado Pago has actually become bigger than the e-commerce part of Mercado Libre. And I think over time, and that will not be for the first years, but over time, the same could happen to C-Money. I mean, Mercado Pago was established in, I think, or launched in 2003, something like that. So it took at least 15 years to become really meaningful.

And for C-Money, I think in 10 years, we will see the same thing. So, different stages of growth, actually. So, Garena is already, yeah, quite profitable. Shopee is close to profitability. And C-Money, not at all, but the potential there is huge. So, that's a bit the... And also C-Money, also the offline payments are going to be important. And if you look at Mercado Pago again, I don't remember the exact numbers, but if you split

up online and offline, you saw that offline was more than half, I think somewhere around 60% of the total revenue of Mercado Pago. And I see the same thing happening now, subscribers send me a picture to check out at the supermarkets where it said, use Shopee Pay and get a 2% cash back. So they are really promoting this and yeah, there's a lot of potential there. I saw that happening in MercadoLibre and I still feel so stupid that I didn't recognize how big it could become. And now I see the same thing with C and I have something like, you know, not again.

I'm not going to miss it this time. I mean, I know this picture. That's sort of the three-headed monster that everyone talks about there in C's business model, right? Yeah. One question about C money. Is this more consumer-focused or is it merchant-focused or maybe is it both? Both. Both.

Yeah. So consumers use it. it's just like a yeah it's like square actually and uh i um not with the the hardware right that's not included but i mean the software side um um yeah it's it's um you can get loans uh if you're a merchant as well and uh yeah and now they're they're one of the candidates to get a banking license which probably will be uh given before the end of the year and um there there are five licenses and uh they're one of the 14 remaining uh candidates so and one of the others is uh is um alipay which i think will be more difficult to get one now uh in singapore so

all right well uh that was a great overview yeah yeah it's a good overview we're gonna try to poke some holes in that thesis on the back half here but before we get to that we have a quick break cox panoramic wi-fi includes advanced security to help protect all your connected devices you'll get real-time alerts oh like this one so you don't have to worry about malware or when your kid downloads a song from a shady link and now all your computer can play is red color red color where are you all blocked thanks to advanced security included with cox panoramic wi-fi advanced security must be enabled in the panoramic wi-fi app restrictions apply all right welcome back in next up we have devil's advocate uh most of the listeners know how this

goes but as a reminder these are our counterpoints so we might not be actually bearish on the company but we want to give uh the guests something to refute so chris in this case we're going to give a few bearish points around c limited here and see how well you can refute them the first one for me and i think this is probably a common bear point among a lot of investors is the valuation i i think they're at a market cap in the upper 80 billion dollar range right now they're close to 90 even yeah and uh the trail i think the trailing 12 month sales multiple is somewhere around it's over 20 so are you concerned at all that the company could be fully valued i mean what sort of what are the drivers of your conviction that they're going to be able to extend this valuation

from here yeah well um if you look at the at the best investments historically you know the the amazons netflix saleforce whatever if you looked at valuations people always said oh there's no they don't make sense at all so that they um they um they have a premium uh price uh tag of course but um i think with these hyper growth uh companies you know c money doubled its revenue um so uh you you've got to you've got to evaluate them in another way you you have to think um how how big is their total addressable markets and and how much can they capture of that market and then um how how how big is their market cap now right now at this moment now if you look at it in this way i think maybe surprisingly c is actually still cheap um i think that a lot of

investors underestimate the the power of a huge compounding growth rates um revenue growth that i mean and um for example um yeah if you looked at the uh the guidance that they gave now that they update updated now for this year they got it for 144 percent of revenue growth i mean um that's that's incredible um and and uh it's it's crazy yeah you know q4 so the the guidance for uh the fourth quarter is as big as the revenue of last year so one quarter is as high as the full last year that's i mean i know i don't i don't know many companies who do that unless they're micro caps or nano caps even um and there's something special going on there but um if you look at that from that perspective and you know let's say that that c uh grows 75 next year

which it's perfectly capable of doing and then maybe i'll be conservative 50 in in two years or so then you have a price to sales ratio of i i don't know something like five or six or so so i don't think um um if you look into the future and and you know the stock market always uh looks forward to what two three years and if you if you really do that and you take the numbers you see that i think uh c is still actually um kind of cheap for long-term investors of course over the short of the short term you never know but if you look out uh two to three years i think it's still you know actually cheap which sounds crazy but yeah go ahead ryan i was saying i know it sounds like a you know a lazy counterpoint like oh well the the stock is

overvalued because i couldn't come up with something else but that's a testament to the business model there aren't a lot of knocks that i can find with the company um but obviously we have to find counterpoints for the segment there is i guess brett has a good one oh yeah let me get to mine it is so you know gaming free fire has done well right now and it's driving a lot of the other businesses like you said a lot of the capital that they generate from free fire but gaming can be cyclical we've seen you know the rise of games something like pokemon go went really viral and then kind of tailed off a bit uh do you worry about that since it's mainly right now i know they're investing in new games um that the new ones or even free fire might fall out of

favor they're not going to be as big of a hit um it can turn cyclical and they're going to have to invest uh in shoppy and the payment stuff uh with you know outside money you know raise some outside capital something like that well um who's the biggest and most successful gaming company in the world that's the question for you that's that's right yeah so and they work they work with Tencent. And I mean, it's not that Tencent just has a stake in, uh, in, uh, C they, they actually work together on a daily basis. Uh, even, um, they always have people talking, uh, for the, for the different, uh, segments of the company. Um, so, um, firstly has said several times that they, yeah, no, they develop, uh, they developed, uh, free fire and, uh, and they had daily, uh,

meetings with tencent about it at the same time they have their own data um you know they have a gaming platform not just a platform for gaming on its own but also for social so what they they get a lot of data from that which kind of games work and what are people talking about so they can combine those three things together and know what to do and i think that's also the reason why free fire for a first game was such a smash hit and and um they're working on um you know making it into a series as a lot of successful games do and i think uh yeah i mean if you look at the boss for for the updates it's uh it's going to be um very successful in the future as well i thing and I think even suppose there is a game which does a little bit less and yeah well they

still have the distribution as well and the distribution of Garena alone is a is already a money machine and yeah they're close to profitability which appears well so yeah I understand the question but i think the the risk is um is uh is quite low okay yeah that makes sense with tencent backing on the platform you know you're not you're not hit driven in that way and uh the fact that when a game gets established like say call of duty fifa um a few others fortnite uh it becomes you know it has a ton of staying power so you know if you can get past that one two three year uh hump um there might be a lot you know it might turn into a cash cow yeah well it is already cash cow and i think um yeah you know it's it's starting to take off in

the u.s i mean what do you need more to to have to have it as the perfect cash cow right that would be interesting to see how it does in the united states all right uh all right one question we have we like to look at the flip side of the situation you know you ideally you want to hold businesses for a long time but sometimes you have to sell uh what would happen for you to have to sell Sea Limited? Well, what I see now is that Sea Limited has, you know, really top-notch execution in every segment. And if that would change, yeah, that could change the thesis. And for example, if I see that Lazada would become the biggest e-commerce site again, that would that would be strange uh or a talkpedia in uh in indonesia is that would become uh or a

grow faster than a shoppee that would be a head scratcher and and then i would have to look really deep if i see something well i mean what's going on there um for example if firstly would leave the company i would also consider if he would be first to leave the company or something like that I would also consider selling I think but yeah I mean as you said I really would have to look hard to to think of situations like that so and what are you so you you mentioned if the execution starts to drop off as a potential selling point what are you sort of tracking for that is it basically like being the leader in those markets like you mentioned is it the same like if free fire starts to slow down is that something that would indicate selling no no not at all because

um if i mean slowing i mean that's not normal i would have to see something which is abnormal i mean if lazada would grow at 100 and um shoppy would grow at 15 that would be an abnormal and then i would think well what's going on here um but free fire you know you know that at a certain moment it will not grow anymore uh that's completely normal that's a life cycle of a game um so what what do i look at i look at revenue growth i look at um the situations i also look at innovation um uh see money is is um is actually the only uh stock i have a weekly overview of the week for my subscribers and it's the only stock that I write about every week not because I look for news but because they are they're innovating at such a pace that it's incredible on all three

sides of course that also yeah has its implication that there's some own use but yeah I mean it started with uh three weeks in a row and i and i jokingly said yeah well i would have to do it every week and and it hasn't stopped for months and months and months and there's always something that they're um implicating that they're innovating that they are rolling out uh that they're improving um so yeah so if you were forced lee or if you were in charge of the company and you can make whatever change you want it to, what would it be? I will, I will, I will give the answer that as a listener, I would probably hate and that is nothing. I mean,

why do I say that? I thought, as I said, I follow, see almost daily and I really, I really have a feeling that this one is special. It's, it's, I'm very, very cautious to say something like that. You know, I will tell you a secret. C is my only stock with a perfect 10 out of 10 conviction rate. So I give conviction ratings and I'm always very critical because you always have to look at all aspects of the company. And, you know, I've been,

I've been a bull for the trade desk, for example, for a very long time. But, and I think Jeff Green is one of the greatest leaders of our time as well and um you will be looked upon like like jeff bezos now in 10 years uh but but still i i don't have a conviction rating of 10 for the trade desk but i do have a 10 for uh for c um and i i'm you know um i'm really really critical and i and all my subscribers know that um but you know i can't find anything that i would change um i could say that from all other stocks that i covered i could say a few things um but not from seeing that's i mean it feels like a weakness almost um then from from myself but i i mean yeah it's no i think it's a good exercise it's a good

exercise like to go through if you're saying all right i like what's going on here is there anything you know do the exercise all right is there anything that would change here and if you can't come up with anything that might be a good sign that you're uh you know bullish on what the prospects are going to be and it's like if there was anything really really apparent uh and they hadn't already done it that might be a bad sign so if you can't come up with something that means they're probably executing on all on all the things that you would have come up with yeah yeah even i yeah that's what exactly what you say that's i've got that with every company oh you could do this and that and that and that and i see a lot of opportunities and in in my

articles also um i also talk about optionality um i mean a company could do this and that and that and go into this and that and that and foresee they're always ahead of me i mean i don't understand it i should but i don't that's that's interesting okay i think that's it do you have any more i got no other questions that was uh that was great great overview for seeing thank you for joining us uh we want to remind my pleasure we want to remind our listeners that we are not financial advisors anything we say or discuss here on chit chat money is not formal advice or recommendation once again thank you for finding us before we let you go uh where can people find you right that's uh yeah well they can go to seeking alpha and then from growth to

value then they uh will find my uh marketplace uh i also publish uh one or two free articles uh each month so um even if you don't want to pay for the the service subscription um that's no problem just follow me if you want to know what it is there's a two-week free trial for everybody so even if you leave no problem there uh you can see everything on the platform uh and you can uh you can learn things so uh that's uh that's no problem uh if you leave of course uh yeah, I hope that you stay and that you like it. But I, if you, I know I used to be a teacher and if I can, if I can learn something or if I can help people, uh, understanding something, I'm already happy. So, um, yeah. And of course on Twitter, uh, at from value,

you can find me there as well. Perfect. Okay. Thank you guys for listening. We'll see you next time. We'll see you next time.