Chit Chat Stocks - Ryan Reeves | Peloton (PTON)

Episode Date: December 20, 2020

On the 20th day of Christmas Ryan Reeves gives to you, Peloton the cardio bike company. Peloton sells bikes targeted for at home use. However, Peloton sells more than just the physical bike, they collect a monthly subscription to their workouts. Ryan Reeves explains how Peloton may compete in the future. Visit our website: https://www.chitchatmoney.com/ Subscribe to 7 Investing with the code "CCM": https://7investing.com/subscribe/ Follow Chit Chat Money on Twitter: https://twitter.com/chitchatmoney Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to 25 Stocks at Christmas presented by Chit Chat Money. Today we have an interview with Ryan Reeves and we're talking Peloton. This was a lot of fun. It's a company we're both very interested in. Yeah, we're interested in the business model. Yeah. And he breaks it down. He breaks down a very compelling bull case. We talk about valuation as well and then maybe why some investors might be thinking or be misguided on the business moving forward after the pandemic. Yeah. And this is, I mean, this is one of those, what you would call it, like you can't be on the fence with this thing. You're either, it feels like you're either all in or you're all out. It's almost similar to Tesla, not as bad as Tesla or like Netflix or something like that. But it's one of those, you know, there's two sides to this one. And he gives the bull case. Yep. And before we get to that, we have our sales pitch. I'm going to go this time and it's seven investing. They're our partners. They're our best podcast friends. And we've had a bunch of them on the show. All of them will be on the 25 Stocks at Christmas show. And you can use our code CCM to get $10 off. So it's typically $17. This time it's $7. Thanks to us. You're welcome. them. And you actually get some really good analysis. You get seven recommendations plus

all the videos and they're super accessible. So if you have, if you like a recommendation, you can just DM them after and be like, Hey, and give us some dialogue, maybe your thoughts, feedback, any questions, and they'll definitely respond. They're always helpful. All right, let's go. Welcome to Chit Chat Money. On this show, host Ryan Henderson and Brett Schaefer interview industry experts, and riff on the world of investment. As a quick reminder, Chit Chat Money is a CCM Media Group podcast. Ryan and Brett are not financial advisors. Anything discussed on Chit Chat Money by Ryan or Brett or any other podcast guest is not formal advice or a recommendation.

Now, please enjoy this episode. Today, we're welcomed by Ryan Reeves. Ryan is the founder of Investing City. You can find it investingcity.org. I'm getting that right? Correct. Okay. And this is your second time on the show. And today we're talking Peloton. How did you come across Peloton as an investment? Yeah. So I was actually thinking of the very first time I heard of Peloton. I can't really remember, but I believe it was just like a direct mail thing. At my house, they just send these really nice direct mail like the paper is very nice just you know how their marketing is very quality um and then i think after that i saw this thread on twitter that was this guy making fun of

all of peloton's marketing i don't know if you've ever seen that oh yeah right it went like viral those multi-million dollar homes yeah exactly um and i don't know i just made a mental note and then when it came public i'd read through the s1 and stuff um and i've kind of been interested ever since were you uh optimistic about them from the first time you read the s1 because this is a company that i like as well and when it first came out i was like gosh these are just expensive bikes like who would ride this yeah that's actually it's really interesting because the very first time i read through i pretty much had the same view like this is a 2400 bike where's the differentiation but i think like over time starting to piece things together i think the content side

of the business is actually really interesting and a big differentiator versus the nautiluses and nordic tracks of the world um and i mean it gets kind of dangerous when you start thinking in analogies of like you know this is the apple of fitness or the netflix of fitness and um i think those can be really helpful shortcuts but sometimes it's not like exact analogies um but i thought that the content piece was really interesting because they can sort of have this moat of investing really heavily back into the content and spreading that across the most subscribers which um you know that's kind of like netflix's insight from from the early days so i thought that piece was pretty interesting do you want to describe more of what they do i think most of most people

know what peloton does but maybe not the content side as much do you want to go into more depth on that yeah sure so i'll just list off some of the price points and stuff so the normal bike um it used to sell for, uh, I believe it was $2,300 and then they just reduced that down about $400. Um, and so now it's around $1,900 for this bike. And then they have the bike plus, which is now like $2,500. And then they also have a couple of treadmills. And then in order to access the content, it's $39 a month. And that gets you, um, all these live classes and a huge backlog of, different fitness videos. I think they have over 15,000 videos on there now, which just like they're pumping out so much content. And then they also have a digital subscription that they

lowered to $13 a month. So you can actually buy that even if you don't have the Peloton bike, but typically most people just buy the bike and then they get the $39 monthly content. Um, and they also provide 0% APR financing. So at the low end, um, of the $1,900 bike, if you split that up into monthly, that's only $49 a month. You add on the $39 a month of content and you're looking roughly like $88 a month. And then they sort of say, Hey, if you have three people in your household, that's like pretty comparable to a gym membership. You don't have the drive to the gym, all of this stuff. So that's kind of how it breaks down. This isn't necessarily integral to the bowl thesis, but have you ever

rode on a Peloton? You know, I actually have. My mother-in-law has a Peloton. So I've used hers before. How was it? How was like the experience? I know there's like the leaderboard on the side, right? Yeah, exactly. So the leaderboard is pretty interesting. um like i was way down in the leaderboard it was pretty surprising just how many people were riding so fast um but it's a pretty cool experience you're seeing like it's very dynamic and the instructor is like yelling at you and they have all this different music um so it's very engaging like you can definitely see how um people can sort of get addicted to the workout out. Um, but it was, it was very difficult. And do they have anything besides bikes? Uh,

I know they have the treadmill. Are they trying to go for all types of fitness that people can do at home? Yeah. So they, they currently don't have any plans for like an elliptical or something like that. It's pretty much just the bike and the tread. Um, but on their new bike plus they have, uh, the swiveling, um, screen, you know, like the big, uh, the TV screen swivels out and then they're starting to do a bunch of yoga and strength training and even weight training videos so you can swivel that screen out and then they'll sell like a yoga mat and so you can do all these different types of things and and that's actually growing really fast so you can access all of the the strength training and everything for just the digital

subscription which is 13 a month and they have over half a million subscribers i think year of a year, they added something like 300, like more than 300,000 digital subscribers. So that's actually growing pretty fast. Okay. And then do you have any thoughts on the management? Is that important to the bowl case here? Or maybe just talk about the executive team in general? Yeah, sure. So I put out a Twitter thread on the CEO a little bit ago, because I think he's he's pretty interesting his name is john foley and he is just like a grinder i mean he he started peloton and he went around to like 150 different vcs and scraped together money um and he was actually before this he was brought on to try to like compete with amazon um in e-commerce at barnes

noble believe it or not and that kind of like fizzled out and he he sort of saw the power of the you know like the model and and being able to like spread your costs across all of these subscribers and um that was like a little bit of the genesis of peloton but he has really scraped and um i i really think he he's a strong ceo and uh i mean just if you read any of the stories from the early days like he was nervous about paying rent and you know just like some of the classic entrepreneurial struggle but i i really think he's a strong ceo do you think it's a good thing that he didn't have that influx of you know a billion dollars from a venture capital firm where they actually have to learn to have strong unit economics totally i think that's a keen insight

because i mean even nowadays i mean obviously like they've seen revenue increase a ton but free cash flow already is pretty strong. And if you read back from some of like profiles from the early days, they've been profitable for a very long time. And then they, I think it's really interesting when a company can become profitable very early on, and then you see them like invest heavily. And so the losses look bad, but you can kind of point back to, Hey, they were actually profitable at one point, but this is just a very deliberate decision to invest back in the business to kind of gain market share. Yeah, I think that's a good point. It's real easy for some companies to masquerade unprofitability as a choice when really it's just a bad model. But

if you can point to a time where they were profitable, it's like, well, if we just stuck with that, sure, we would be smaller, but we'd be profitable. But yeah, I think that's really interesting. What about just the thesis broadly? I know Peloton's had an incredible year or so. i guess listeners might be thinking why now what why do you like as investment right now sure so i think one key tenet of the thesis is that the competition um i i believe there's just a very large gap between peloton and the competition i mean i would say the main two competitors are nordic track and nautilus nautilus doesn't have any content piece of the business um nordic track they they sell this i fit subscription which is like a different company

that creates the content and then they license it to nordic track um and i i just don't think it's the same quality there's not nearly the like the live the amount of live classes and the content background backlog at all um i mean just some examples of the the strength of peloton's brand So even their fitness instructors have like huge Instagram following. So there's one woman named Robin Arzon, which is like the head of the instructors. She has like over 600,000 followers on Instagram. A few others have well over 300,000. I just think that the gap between the competition is very big.

And then if you look at, I mean, they have 1.5 million total subscribers in the US, there's 63 million people with gym memberships, like very early days in terms of penetration. I don't think that there's going to be like saturation for a very long time. And just like some a few other metrics. So in the past two quarters, they've done about $500 million in free cash flow. That's bigger than Nautilus's entire market cap. I think they just have a bunch of excess now that they can really invest back in the business, you know, maybe launch and more international. So I think even though the stock has definitely run up a lot, I can see there being a big potential and a big future just because there's not going to be competition really like cutting into the margins at all. I think, especially now that they've lowered the price on the entry-level bike. NordicTrack is a very similar price point for, in my opinion, a much worse value proposition. So, yeah, I think it's early days and competition is definitely not close to Peloton. Would you say the customer value prop is more skewed towards the community as opposed to the actual hardware? Totally. I think that is a huge piece of it.

Um, because if you like, I think Peloton versus NordicTrack is like $150 more. Um, and it's like very similar for the iFit subscription in terms of monthly pricing to Peloton. And so if you have all of this content and it just like much more quality, um, maybe like the leaderboard features are, are better. I just think there's, there's a few things that the engagement is much higher on Peloton that they really like creates a better value prop okay were you about to say something i was going to actually ask the same question about the community aspect but maybe one other part there's

like i've seen some people anecdotally say hey i've been racing and i beat like someone i guess a golfer i remember is roy mcelroy is that important that they get these uh celebrities i guess you'd say or famous people i know they just did a partnership with beyonce is that important to get people to stay on the platform so they could see like their favorite uh just people yeah i mean that's interesting i don't know if it's necessarily like crucial um i think it's something that's nice to have and it's kind of a testament to just how powerful the peloton brand is that all these celebrities want to be associated with the brand um i can't really imagine like beyonce and nautilus or nordic track it's just like a different um aesthetic or different vibe

or something. Um, and I think that's interesting when people say, you know, like I, I can't imagine somebody buying a, an exercise bike for $2,400. Um, and that pricing power, like those people aren't necessarily the target market. Like if it sounds kind of bad to say, but if you're like really quibbling over paying an extra hundred dollars, that's probably not like the Peloton target market. These people are, are really like all in on the brand. I mean, the Facebook group, I think alone has like 400,000 members. So it's not like a small target market, but it is very kind of specific. It reminds me like if somebody that has a Peloton, they probably have an iPhone or something.

It just seems like a very similar demographic or people that aren't necessarily price sensitive. And how big do you think the target market is? Because I know when people bring up some bear cases, they say, all right, well, these are $2,000 bikes. they already have a few million people using them how much can they grow especially once covid ends yeah i i think the the financing is actually underrated so they partner with this company affirm which is actually ipoing pretty soon and if you read through affirms s1 about 30 percent of the revenue is actually just from peloton and i think year over year um the peloton revenue for a firm has grown something like over 300%. So you kind of break down that $2,400 into $50 a

month, which is much more approachable and palatable. So they're actually seeing huge growth with people who have incomes of even like less than $50,000. Just because $50 a month is not insane and pretty reasonable, especially if a normal gym membership is maybe $40. You're just paying a bit extra for the content. And, and, um, you know, you can see how, especially if you have a few people in your household, it can kind of be like a solid value prop. So that $2,400, um, which I know now it's $1,900 kind of gets thrown out a lot, but I think if you break it down, um, you can kind of see how it could be like a, uh, like more fair in terms of value prop. Okay, that makes sense.

What do you think of their strategy to keep everything in-house? I know I've seen Peloton trucks driving on the freeway next to me delivering bikes, and they also have their studios in, I think it's New York and London. They hire their own instructors. What do you think about the vertical integration? Yeah, I think vertical integration can cut both ways. I mean, it really increases the executional risk. You know, there's a lot of moving pieces and it really will take a toll on margins. But I think there's the flip side of it where if you can really nail vertical integration,

I think your moat is much bigger than a lot of people think. I mean, Tesla is maybe the obvious example. They actually create the machines that create the parts. Like they're so vertically integrated, it's insane. Um, so I think there, there's definitely a benefit if you can nail vertical integration. And I think it's important for Peloton because they have such a focus on their brand. So if they outsource the showrooms to some other company, um, I think there's a fastidious about the customer experience and the brand that they want to control everything.

And like I said, it increases the executional risk, but I, but I also think that, um, you you know, it also increases the potential because I think in the future they might get into apparel or things like that. And they've already had like this DNA of we're going to figure out things by ourself. I think that could like potentially increase the optionality because of that like company DNA. Okay. I have one more question before we take the break. What do you think about the bike plus initiative, having these tiers? I know that's something that Apple has done with their phones. Do you think they can have a lot higher margins with these really expensive bikes and what are they selling for? Yeah, totally. So I think you're spot on. The

normal bike now is $1,900. Bike plus is $2,500. So, you know, it's a bit more expensive. But the monthly payment is, you know, $49 per month versus $64 per month. And yeah, I think it would be interesting to sort of have like this hardware cycle um where maybe every few years i mean it's not going to be maybe i don't know i mean apple releases a new phone you know every year every couple years i don't know if it could be that often because just like the logistics of it to get a huge bike into somebody's house it just a bit more difficult um but i mean surprisingly personally i i would imagine like the inside of a phone with like all the the chips and very specialized parts it might even be more difficult to manufacture than a bike um it's just like

peloton is in the very early stages of really scaling manufacturing um so yeah i i think it would be really interesting to have like this cycle where they just keep improving things and then it's not like okay you buy one bike and that's what you have forever where they have upgrading um and they started rolling out the they call it like their cpo certified pre-owned um bikes but they actually have no inventory because nobody wants to give the old bike back what what they're finding is people actually have the low bike and they're upgrading to the the higher end but then they'll keep like the low end bike in their basement or whatever um so they haven't even like got the inventory because people don't want actually want to give their bikes back

which is creating like a, a weird dynamic. Um, but yeah, it would be really cool to see like this upgrade cycle over time. Yeah. It's strange that people aren't giving those bikes back if they're not using them. Uh, it shows the high quality, I guess, right? Yeah, totally. Um, what the CEO on the last earnings call said actually was people, um, so I believe it's like a $700 rebate that people can get if they sell their low end bike back. But what people are finding is they're actually selling like facebook marketplace for more than that 700 rebate so they're just like arbitraging it themselves so that's why like the main reason why they're not getting any any of those bikes back okay um something else that i saw was i think

they have a backlog um or sort of like a waiting list of people that have ordered and it's just not delivering for a while or they're in line to order i know ferrari is a company that sort of touts their backlog as something they are very proud of is this is a backlog good for peloton or is that something that's like you should probably be delivering it faster yeah i mean i think that hits on an important thing that i've been thinking about is um really kind of the executional risk right now i mean demand is insane i think the the bike plus is like at least a 10 week lead time right now and one main reason for that is actually like the port of la is really backed up there's a bunch of articles um online and so what they what they've said is they're

actually going to start flying bikes in just to cut down those lead times and next quarter they said it's going to hit margins just because it's it's much more expensive to transport things by air than by sea um so they said that's actually worth it to them because once again they're very focused on like customer experience and making sure that customers don't have to wait a long time. But I think like lately, yeah, it's like at least a six week lead time right now. So there is no shortage of demand. It's just really the supply. I mean, they're trying to spin up more factories. They just bought like a hundred thousand square feet in Texas. I think that was like yesterday, actually. They're building out more factories in Taiwan. So I think that's the

the risk if they can just make them fast enough so that people you know don't start um like leaving bad reviews because they said oh i never got my bike for christmas or what this so i think next quarter will be really interesting to see how well they do in terms of like ramping up production okay i think that's all the questions we have for the first half we're gonna hit a quick break and then we'll try to poke some holes in ryan's thesis cox panoramic wi-fi includes advanced security to help protect all your connected devices you'll get real-time alerts oh like this one so you don't have to worry about malware or when your kid downloads a song from a shady link and now all your computer can play is red color red color where are you all blocked thanks to advanced

security included with cox panoramic wi-fi advanced security must be enabled in the panoramic Wi-Fi app. Restrictions apply. Welcome back in. Next up, we have Devil's Advocate. Most of you guys know how this goes, but we have a few counterpoints for Ryan to try to refute. My first one is the average monthly workout. So sequentially from fourth quarter to Q1, average monthly workouts dropped from 24.7 to 20.7 that's about the same time when gyms started reopening um so i guess the concern is that as well peloton's thesis is dependent on gyms being closed uh as you can see by the usage dropping uh is that a concern for you yeah i think it's it's a really fair point um i think that like almost 25 workouts a month is like a little bit

unsustainable. I mean, just is very, I mean, that's, that's five, like six workouts a week, which I think is, is pretty insane. So I was expecting a little bit of a drop off. I think the thing, so workouts is definitely a good metric. I think the thing that really matters is churn. And so churn did tick up a little bit. I think it was like 0.52% last quarter, this quarter it came in at 0.65. I think it really matters your time horizon though. Cause if you look year over year, it's actually down from 0.9%. So depending on the framing, um, I think it's, it's fair to expect like a little bit of elevated churn, especially as things normalize and workouts will, you know, most likely drop. I don't think that, you know, people can have a gym

membership and a Peloton. It's not necessarily that they're like mutual exclusive. Um, I think some people will choose to have one or the other, but I think they can work together. Um, but I mean at 0.65% monthly churn, that's roughly like 8% annual churn, which is really solid. I mean, for a hardware product, um, on the subscription, I think that's like a little bit, I mean, I don't remember the numbers off the top of my head, but it's like not that dissimilar to Netflix. Um, So, I mean, I think that the churn really matters more and we're not seeing like a huge spike in churn. So I'm not super worried about that. And you touched on something that was also important there, which is the year over year numbers versus quarter over quarter.

I know. And so I guess this counterpoint was something that I'm not actually I don't believe in much because John Foley on the last conference call mentioned that quarter over quarter isn't useful. because people are biking a lot outside in the summertime so there's always a down tick uh during that and it can be kind of seasonal right yeah exactly okay all right i'll hit uh i'll hit my counterpoints uh mirror is a big i guess competitor i don't really know exactly how large they are i think they got bought out by lululemon for about four billion dollars but since they're backed by the giant company they may be able to get a lot of funding and they're kind of going after that non-cardio market or maybe non-biking or running market does that limit peloton's potential upside to go into the strength or yoga or all those other um

fitness sectors yeah it's interesting i i didn't know it was four billion i thought it was a bit smaller of an acquisition half half a billion oh i thought it was i thought it was half a billion as well okay i was throwing out a number that i thought was small sorry um no no worries um but i I think it's fair because like the mirror is definitely getting some traction. I saw an analyst report that they're going to reach like 600 K subs by 2023. But I mean,

I guess if you compare that to Peloton's digital subscription, I think next quarter, they're already going to be at 700,000. So just like the scale of Peloton by 2023, they're going to, I think of digital subscription, at least have a couple million. And then especially with the bike plus and the swiveling screen.

I mean, it's not quite as big as the mirror, but if you're able to get a bike for, um, you know, $2,400 and you, you can have this fairly big screen and you can do all these workouts anyway, I think the, the mirror is like $1,500. So it's quite a bit cheaper, but you're not able to do like whole, uh, Peloton workouts and exercise bike. You, you pretty much only have the mirror. It's not like you can use that for something else um so i think even the value prop compared to the mirror might be superior i think the mirror has actually copied the 39 per month in terms of content costs because they do have like some live classes but once again just the backlog is nowhere near um peloton and

then one and one like last point is um peloton actually just partnered with roku so you can like watch peloton classes on your roku um so you can use the digital subscription for that which i mean the tv is like basically a mirror um so i mean for 13 a month you don't even have to pay the 1500 for mirror i'm sure it's not as aesthetic and um stuff like that but peloton's doing some interesting things uh what do you think of their ability i know you mentioned something about merchandise for peloton whether it's shirts or apparel stuff like that what do you think about their ability to go from hardware to the apparel market whereas lululemon has basically flipped that. And now they're selling the hardware from their apparel base. Yeah. I mean, this might be

sort of a naive perspective because I've never like been in an operational role of either of those, but it seems to me that apparel would be easier than like the vertical integration of content production and creating the bikes and logistics and, and all of these other things that Peloton's already figured out. It feels to me that just moving into apparel would be much easier. And then the other interesting thing is that Peloton actually has already a pretty sizable retail footprint. I think they already have like 105 stores and Lulu has about like 491 stores. So if you think about that already, like Lulu's only five times the store count more. And I think Lulu's market cap is something like 50 billion, Peloton's like 35 billion. So if you

just like view that um five times the store count and peloton has really sold zero apparel um which i think it could be really interesting if they started just offering apparel in their stores and people would be going to those stores just for the apparel um i think that would be like a natural extension we'll see if it happens i mean right now they're just struggling to meet demand for their bikes so um i i doubt they're gonna be like really focusing on that but i think it, it could definitely be possible in the future. I feel like they have the brand strength to pull that off. What are their stores for right now? Is it just like, like a showroom? Pretty much just showrooms. So you can go in there, order your Peloton. You can do like trial rides. So

sometimes you'll see like people running on treadmills in the store. But usually you'll just order it and then they'll just ship it to your house. It seems like the last thing I'd want to do if i was just walking through a mall let's let's let's do a 30 minute peloton ride yeah but they they also have some uh like studios right some in-person studios that people can go to i think they only have a few um is that something that they've been trying to do as well or is that maybe just a little small small add-on yeah i'm i'm honestly not sure then it might be like the one in new york you're referring to um yeah i don't know but it would be interesting if they had like i'm sure very hardcore peloton fans would like want to sit in on like a live showing

i i don't know what could happen but uh i think there's there's multiple ways they can monetize stuff okay interesting um okay so flip side then what would be something that would encourage you to sell uh or sort of bust your thesis for peloton yeah so we talked about it a little bit but just their ability to scale up production. If the, you know, wait times keep increasing, I think that degrades customer experience a lot, especially around the holidays. You know, people order Peloton, they're not able to get it in time. And, you know, maybe, you know, you could lose a potential subscriber forever. And the lifetime value of a Peloton subscriber is very high because, you know, like that 8% annual churn, I guess that implies roughly like

a 12 year, um, customer lifetime value. And if you multiply out by the $39 content, you know, costs, you get like a very sizable, um, customer lifetime value. So every customer that, you know, isn't happy with your experience, Peloton is definitely losing out on, on a big, uh, like serviceable market. Um, so I think that's really the big thing. If they can really ramp up production i i think that um that decreases risk a lot and that might be the thing that's kind of holding the stock down a little bit over the last you know a few months or so um i mean i just don't see a shortage of demand right now obviously that a fair portion of that is covet related um and you know they'll have like the tough comps on the back side of this year um but i don't think those are

necessarily like structural things of the business um so you can expect growth to to slow down uh you know it can't be growing over 200 you know forever um but i'd say like the main thing is is really that they if they are if they're clear signs they can't ramp production maybe that shows that um they have a lot to learn and and they're going to miss out on on a bunch of revenue do you think there's any merit to the i mean when we saw the vaccine news come out i know peloton was down like six percent that day or something like that do you think there's any merit to uh the bear thesis that this is a covid stock yeah i think there's there's definitely some merit um but i would just point to churn rates i think that is is an underrated piece of it um so like they have

this huge influx of subscribers and customers right i mean um next quarter they're gonna probably add on like another however like 300 000 more um and at very low churn rates i i think um it's it's not like people are just gonna all of a sudden give back their peloton um as long as you know the monthly workouts don't fall off a cliff and and go lower than they were before which i don't see any you know like potential scenario why that would happen um then you know you've got like this fairly captive audience and you know the the customer value proposition is just going to get better and better um so i think that engagement will like have been at an all-time high it's not going to be anywhere near that 25 workouts per month so maybe you see like churn tick back a lot

but unless you see churn like way over one percent um i don't think it's i think it would be hard to say like it's solely a COVID stock. Okay. That makes sense. Are there any changes you'd like to see Peloton make either through the executive team, operational, how they talk to investors, et cetera? Yeah. So one thing I would say is just, it would be cool for them to eventually get into apparel. I think that would widen the market a lot. And I think they have like the aspirational brand dna to do that um one other thing i would say is just like start to invest in brand awareness internationally i think that would really increase their tam um and it's you know peloton is a very well-known brand in the u.s but i i just don't think it's

as well known in international it's i mean it's also tough just because they're struggling to keep up with demand maybe uh they don't actually need that extra demand right now but like laying the foundation for international i think would be important eventually okay anything else ryan i think that's it yeah this was good i'm glad we talked peloton you answered a lot of uh the things i was pretty curious about so um yeah thank you where can uh people reach you what's your twitter handle sure so at investing underscore city um yeah dms are open feel free to reach out and it's investingcity.org yeah do you want to say what that is i guess a lot of people do if you want to give a quick explainer yeah sure so it's a research service where um put my personal

portfolio on the site and then all the research is bundled around that different databases um weekly emails um you know the tagline is save time and boost your return so just love this stuff love researching businesses and just try to help busy folks uh out with that with that process perfect okay we want to remind our listeners that we are not financial advisors anything we say or discuss here on Chit Chat Money. It's not formal advice or recommendation. Thank you guys for listening. We'll see you next time.